Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 112: Galore Galore!

This is exactly right. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Hello, Moe. And welcome to rewind with Karen and Georgia.

This is the show where we recap our early episodes with new case info and old feelings. Today, we're rewinding episode 112, which we named the lower galore. This episode came out on March 15, 2018, right?

Let's listen to the intro of episode 112. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hi, hello, and welcome to my favorite med. That's it. There we are.

When we did the switch off thing, it immediately

feels like I'm in second grade.

I immediately want to ruin it.

“It's, do you mean, like, just say the line that isn't your line?”

Yeah, because I hate it. I know it's really dumb. Like, blow it all up to the moon, you know? Yeah, that's the feeling I got to. But also, it's so easy to follow.

It is. And you just know what to do. And it's catching in there's a jingle. I don't know. It reminds me of camp.

Oh. My favorite camping story. Oh, I have a right off the-- well, no. Do you want to write off the bat the same? Corrections corner myself.

Get out in front of even the show itself to correct yourself. At last, I just want to say-- so I wouldn't have to bend to it our last week. During my murder, I said the word transvestite. I should have said transgender.

And I think even in my mind, I wasn't totally clear on the differences. Yeah, I think the person who wrote to us. Yeah. And lots of people were saying, look at what a good call in and not a call out. The person said, it's the modern phrase is trans.

Yeah. So I screwed that up and I had 100%. We'll do my best to move forward and fuck in, just do it right. Well, here's the thing. And it was such a lovely, lovely phrase tweet.

But I have-- I don't know. Like, when someone says the common parlance is trans, I just am speaking from what I've known from when I heard people talk about it. So it's like, we do need those updates. Absolutely.

“And I think I copied and pasted some fucking thing from Wikipedia”

and just was reading it. And I need to stop and think about it. And I'm doing shit like that. And I know. I mean, even though I think I'm like, it was so hard

about being corrected when you think you're fucking liberal and woke as fucking on it. It's so hard to be like, I didn't screw up. I support everyone, right? I can still screw up.

It's OK. And also, it's just that fine tuning of-- it's not a massive screw up. It's just a person going, ugh, that just-- I don't-- it makes me feel discluded

or it makes me feel bad. Or it's perpetuating a negative stereotype. 100% don't want to be part of it. No, no, no, there's no time for that. On this podcast of all the things we're trying to do,

that's the last fucking thing we're trying to do. Absolutely. It also, I will say, in that same vein, in a corrections vein, maybe not all the way in the corner. But somebody on Twitter was like, hey,

“if you guys ever talked about Wind River.”

And I was literally standing in my backyard, like doing one thing. And then I just wrote, we did. And it said, I was even really thinking about it. I was like, I was getting four things done at once.

We did. And then she took it as-- like, she jokingly was like, I was chided. But then I-- whatever. And then I-- but I really meant this.

I was like, I really didn't mean it that way. Of course, it seemed that way, that's Twitter. And whatever. But what I did like that she was bringing up. Her point was, and our point was,

when we talked about it on the podcast, is Wind River was such a great movie,

because it's finally bringing light to the murder

and missing Indigenous women of America, and also of Canada. Right. And then they mentioned this podcast that I had mentioned a while ago and hadn't.

But so the podcast was called "Missing and Murdered." And season one, I listened to it and loved it, called it was about who-- it was titled, "Who Killed, Alberta Williams." And that was really good.

And the news season just came out. And this one's called "Finding Clio." And it's hosted by-- and like, you know, made by Connie Walker, who's an investigative reporter,

and an Indigenous woman herself. Yeah. So it's really-- it's really good. I'm going to listen to "Finding Clio" now, the first one who killed Alberta Williams was really good.

Yeah, I can't wait to listen to it, but I have to look at "Missing and Murdered" as the name. The name of it is "Missing and Murdered." Yeah. I was-- I liked that because I was also going to say

on Twitter and then I was like, never explain anything on Twitter.

But I wanted to say, like, when we did our Vancouver show last the last

“time we were on tour and we were in Vancouver,”

I wanted to do the highway years. But there are so many victims, and there's no-- there's kind of no single story. It's just all these disappearances and all these really sad stories.

So it was like, I wanted to explain on Twitter.

Yeah, I've never tackled that because once I started looking into it,

it was this expansive-- And they each have-- They each have their-- they each have their own episode. Like, Albert Hunt is not in this one. It is one of the women from the highway of tears.

Right. But it has nothing-- you know, it's-- it may be has nothing to do with any of the other women. And it's his own. It's like, you know, multi-part story itself.

So it's so hard to-- Each one of those cases should be. It's like, it gets so vast. It's very much like the Grimm Sleeper. Yeah.

It had-- it went on for so long that there are so many people that you're talking about that you can't not under like, serve those victims. And then there was stories.

“I was going to do like three victims or one of the victims”

was-- it was solid when I found out

that it was the serial killer and it was caught in a really cool way.

But then it's none of the women who this was solved about were indigenous. So then I was like, I'm an only do the highway of tears. But the non-indigenous women in that doesn't sound right. So it's no do that one.

Well, that's kind of-- yeah, that's not the point. For what that story is. So it's very cool that there are people that are dedicating entire true crime podcasts to that area.

And thank you guys for who-- to the people who brought all that stuff up for us on Twitter. We appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, fun times in the sunshine. Let's go fun. Let's have something. Let's go to camp. We had a little campy kind of event

because on the podcast, I said I want to take a tour of Jet Propulsion Laboratories, which is a place here in very close to where we are right now in Pasadena

“where they build things like the Marbs Rover”

and things that they put on Mars and other planets. Mars is the only one I know. But so in saying that on the podcast, we got some responses from people who actually worked at JPL who were like, I can give you a tour.

And the person that I guess either Stephen Pictor seemed the most credible, maybe was the most high end. Yeah, yeah. Like, we got the guy. He was medding it.

Yeah. Stephen was the only one for the Superstars at JPL. We got a guy who is an engineer named Lou Girsch and he isn't charged. All right, listen to this shit.

He isn't charged of entry, dissent, and landing systems analysis for the Europa project, Europa being a moon of Jupiter. Sure. Which Georgia now?

Sure, do you know that? You know, I didn't go because I was sick. That's right. It was me. It was Stephen.

It was our friend Scotty Landis. And we took a full on tour of this place. It's like this gorgeous college campus, but only smart people, which that's the way college should be.

And did you see that guy when we were walking in and building there was a guy that walked out. And he was wearing a total blues brother suit, but he had kind of like a long-ish like early '80s guy here. And he was like, oh, look at that rocket scientist.

He's a cute, like, everywhere I looked. I was like, that's the most fascinating person. Like, everyone just seemed so cool and smart. And they were all working on putting things onto different planets.

Oh my God. It was incredible. Can I say, can I tell you a love story? Sure. I know a girl named Nicolette and her shared it.

Her super gorgeous husband is a super smart rocket scientist. Loving it. I think he works at JPL. He was sending, when they started first started dating, he was sending, listen, I'm getting all of this wrong.

But essentially, he sends a thing to a planet. Maybe it was the moon. I don't remember. But is the moon a planet or is just our moon? A fucking rock.

He sent it to a thing to a place. And he fucking wrote her name on the machine that was landing on the moon or Jupiter or Mars. Nicolette. So it's going to be there.

And it's, you know, it stays there forever. They can't send them back. So he would say, we'd be really like some one. [LAUGHTER] I'm going to go to the moon.

So he does that. I love it.

All in all, just it was an incredible experience.

Lou was the best guy. We got to see the coolest things. He's an incredibly friendly, smart, cool guy. And his wife, Lindsay, is also listener. So hi, you guys.

And thank you so, so much. We actually got to shop at the JPL gift store at the end. But my dad had got my niece at sweatshirt, got myself a sweatshirt. I was going to buy you a shirt.

She liked this font. And I was like, really good.

And then I'm like, she will never wear this shirt.

Like, this is not your style. You just want to spend money. I did. It was so fun to shop. And they had like, Stephen, you bought--

I bought space ice cream. [LAUGHTER] I love it.

“They haven't changed the package since we were children, right?”

It's insane. Astronaut, neon colors. Neapolitan ice cream, too. And how was it? It wasn't good.

I took one bite and I turned it caring. I was like, oh, this is bad. But it was like the thing of like, I would always see that I'd want it. And of course, my dad or my mom would be like, no.

And then I finally was like, I have my own money. It's my life. They were right. They were just like, oh, yeah.

This is what substitutes as ice cream.

Right. In the furthest darkest space. Because ice cream is good. Ice cream is good. So anyway, the next time you hear about any kind of a

anything rover of any type being landed on your ropa, which is a moon of Jupiter, that's Lou. That's Lou, baby. Thanks, Lou. Lou and his team and everybody else

to JPL, the coolest, the coolest scientist around. The coolest. There can we say, all right, piece, even Hawking. Oh, very nice. Nice, fold, fold in, and cap.

I did you see my tweet where my dad texted me at 11. At 10, 45 at night and goes, I read a thing where Stephen Hawking died. Amazing.

“He, he, I think he meant like, when I made a life,”

he meant a bunch of Melody didn't write such a dad. It made me laugh so hard. Amazing. Where it's like, yeah, you mean, die, dying. Being a human being.

It is amazing. I love it. All right. I also found out I got some information for my dad. My mom used to give my dad shit all the time

because he used to have a Jewish girlfriend when he was in this 20. And she would be like, I know you like her more than me. She knew her name for some reason. It was like a running joke between them. And last night, we were talking when I called my dad

to console him about his amazement about Stephen Hawking's death. Somehow that came up. Oh, she, because he found out she was next to her neighbors with her, he knew and told me she was next to her neighbors

with Dick Van Dyke when she was growing up. And I'm like, oh, so she was like rich rich. And he goes, oh, yeah, they lived in Bel Air. And I'm like, I go, dad, I'm going there. You could have been rich.

A rich kid and rich. I could have been half Jewish and half Irish, which is so badass. Yeah. Imagine.

Yeah. The confidence and the guilt. Um, anyway, so I told my dad, I texted my dad that I was going to find her address and go ring the doorbell and say that I was the family's long lost daughter and he wrote, don't embarrass me.

[LAUGHTER] Um, anyway. I'm going to embarrass my family so much on stage on Friday. Uh, I'm going to do it anyway. It's not about them.

No, it's not. It's not. It's about you. It's about me. Please focus on what's important.

Me and a jumpsuit that doesn't look good on me. We're going to get you the best out of it. You know, we're going to do, we're going to get you a big chunky necklace. We're going to send it at the waist, we're going to belt it. We're going to belt it and cinch it.

We're going to get our spanks arm sleeves. That's fucking right. We're going to be like long gloves up to your fucking tits.

It's going to be amazing.

You don't want to do. We're going to send my tits out by themselves. And just let them do the show opening number. Lead with the tits. Yeah, it is.

Absolutely. I actually thought of that, where I'm like, what if this is a show where I just

“go out just LA style and be like angeline cleavage and fan across my face?”

You could you have you hold on a second. You know, we haven't talked about it. Did you see the thing that someone posted on Twitter and they're like, you were in the, oh, that British. I don't want to talk about it.

Oh, my god. No, it made me laugh. My ass saw it. They said you're in the observer, some British, like newspaper, and it was only a picture of Georgia.

I know. And it's like the best photo of me. It's such a good picture. Thank God. Well, you know what I was thinking?

It's only me. It's hilarious. Oh, I didn't that happen. I, it's one of a couple reasons, but I don't think there's any, any, any decent picture of me where I'm standing, like, full body that I would be the same size as we even look

normal next year. But there's a really great photo that Robin Montsman took of us or, like, probably wouldn't fit in that lineup because they were trying to fit those five people as it was, like, five podcasts. And I look like I'm fucking hanging out with the Osborns.

You, you look like you are on a red carpet like Hollywood style. I was. And when I looked it for what, for this, for like the food, the food, taste towards like the food. Oh, yeah.

Like three years ago, and I had it clearly look like that was my bad, so I'll ever be. No, I doubt it. Um, no, you've got so much more ahead of you, girl.

I was, I have to say I was insanely relieved because I was just like, I don't know a picture that I can imagine being put next to that picture that I would be like, oh, great. My midsection is in that newspaper. What, but what's also really funny is Josie, I'm not going to be able to remember

her last name offhand, but she's a little bit further down. And she's still on the East, she's a British woman that used to be on, whose line is it anyway with her, groups and rhinestones all the time, like the original one. She's super, she, well, then I want to say Josie Moran, but that's not right. And she is truly one of the, she's one of the funniest people on the planet, and I wonder

“if the girl that tweeted it to us, because that's how I saw it.”

If she thought that that was me, I mean, I doubt it, Josie Lawrence, Josie Lawrence. Yeah. Is one of the best improvisers there is, and one of the funniest women on the planet. So I was like, well, maybe she's mistaken. Look how sassy I look in this.

Yeah, I know, I know. Who is that girl? Good luck with your fucking podcast. All right, it's my turn. I really look like her to see, like at your side, I'm like, oh, yeah, I look like her.

No, it's such a good picture. I'm happy about that.

Okay, I found a new, okay, I wonder if you've never heard of it.

Like a new police crime drama hit me on Netflix. Okay. I'm in a guy. I feel like I wanted to text you, but we can say I've been sick and Vince was gone. So I just fucking binge watch this shit, and I'm like, I'm gonna tell Karen, it's Norwegian,

the break? No. It's Norwegian. The dark? No.

Which is great. Because you read it, it's subtitle, so you can eat crackers really lastly and you don't have to turn it louder. Yeah, which I realized over the weekend how great that was. It's called border liner.

Yes, I just started it. Oh my god, how hot is the cup? It's crazy. And he's secret gay.

“Secret gay, which makes out with the other hottest guy who's a lawyer.”

For some reason, I didn't see that coming.

When you're watching a foreign show, I always, from watching so many of them, I'm like,

I know what this usually contains. You're going to set up like the haggard mother that's still getting it all done and the cup. And then the female cups going to come along and she's hot and they're going to make out.

Yeah, definitely. You just think you know all the tropes. Yeah. So that, and that guy started kissing that other guy, like, we were only in it for two and a half minutes.

Totally. It was shockingly hot. It was surprisingly exciting. The guy who plays hockey cup, this name I don't have, and probably couldn't pronounce if I wanted to.

Right. It's Vince Dodger's daughter. Right. It's so beautiful. Yeah.

So it's such a handsome cup that anyways, I'm like almost out with it, and it's really good. She keeps happening. She keeps happening where I'm like, I would have just told already, like, they keep getting themselves deeper and deeper.

Oh, like, yeah, I know. Sometimes, like, like, the line of, you can't suspend disbelief that long, but I get it when it's like, well, if I now tell, I'm even more troubled than if I just should have told in the beginning, now in fact, it needs to keep happening. Yeah.

But I don't know. It's good. And there's a strong female lead who's like, on to everyone's lies, and it's just like, going for the truth. She's a fucking detective as well.

Love it. Go and for it. There's something about those foreign procedures. And maybe it is the subtitles that I really love. Yeah.

I like it. They make it very clear. Yeah. I've spent all day by myself typing on some, in some version, most of it with you. But just lots and lots of typing and writing in silence.

Yeah. So I'm really just getting these words up on their feet right now, just trying some stuff out.

“And I just keep saying things and then going, like, don't, what?”

No. I spent a week in a loan and didn't, I left the house for 15 minutes, maybe. Because it's gone, you know, when I didn't change my clothes, I didn't shower.

I was just like, and then it was a good reminder of like, here's what you're like,

alone. Not everyone, but I am a particularly bad single person. Yes. So it was nice, a nice reminder. And then not talking.

But then I realized I was talking because I was just having whole conversations with my cats. Yes. You know? That's, that's where we go to narrating their lives.

I mean, I start fake arguments just to entertain myself for like, what are you doing in here? And they're just laying there, like, watching me only with their eyes moving? Oh, it's so fun. Yeah.

It's, um, there's nothing like being a hermit. Should we, should we just, like, do it? Let's just get into it. I, uh, I feel like I just had one more other thing to tell you though. Oh, I was just going to say, I'm really excited for our L.E. show.

So we, this is what L.E. show in two days. I'm super excited. But I'm starting to get insanely nervous.

Yeah.

“Because people we know are going to be there.”

It feels like, it feels like we've done all these great shows with all these amazing people all

around the country. Yeah. And have these amazing experiences. And they were all people we didn't know. Right.

And there's no way we can prove it. I know. It doesn't matter that all that great stuff happened because now it's just like, now you just got to put up or shut up in your hometown. It's going to be like some of my girlfriends are coming and my fucking mom and dad are coming

and like my aunt might come and and then all our agents are going to be there. That's going to be scary. It's like feels official and then it also feels like, you know. I also feel like last time we played L.E. into the Orfium. I didn't do like I was, I was new at it.

Yeah. It was a while ago. Yeah. And so I feel like I, this is now my time proved to all these L.E. people that I don't suck anymore. Which is a little pressure.

As if you haven't been performing and posting live shows where you, it's in no way sucked. But L.E. doesn't know that. No, I know L.E. doesn't know anything.

And that's the problem is it like it's very,

when we, when this podcast started to actually get popular in a way that, that actually mattered to me where I was just like, no. Yeah. Like the beginning I just didn't buy it. You would show me things.

I'd just be like, this is a bunch of bullshit. Yeah. And I was like, you're like, stop getting excited. It's going to end. It's going to end.

Don't be, I just needed to curb your, I want, I didn't want to see the hard break. I just wanted to get it over with. Like this thing is going to fucking snap that on both of us. So hard.

You're going to regret the data that you were happy. You will ruin the day you asked me over. But it's too, so to have it, when something matters in LA, I just, it's like, I've lived over 25 years in nothing fucking matters. Like nothing matters through.

“So then too, actually punch through, you think that's what you want to do.”

Then it starts happening and you're like, oh my god. Well, like, who wants like that for anyone with success with low self-esteem or with like, low self-worth is when you get success. You doubt it so much that you're like any kind of success. You're like bullshit.

But who's fucking, why are you fucking with me? You know, instead of being like, this is great. And I'm enjoying it. Right, because you planned for what you planned for how it's going to happen. And my therapist told me, I worship at the elder of doubt.

And so anything good that happens, I'm like, no, and here's why. And it's good that I feel it's right. Yeah, because now I'm taking care of myself. Right. It's just, it takes time to catch up.

So then I feel like I'm just catching up in these last couple days, where I was like, shoot, I meant to lose 40 pounds. Oh, shoot, I meant to do this in that. Like, oh, shoot. We were going to decorate the stage or whatever.

Like, it felt like it was, we were supposed to do some big, like, we're auditioning for our own show. It's Wednesday and I just was like, maybe we should get our makeup done. I might email them like a friend and I'm like, She's going to have a job that day.

She's not going to do it. Here's the thing. I know it's going to be fun. And I know that when I am nervous for something, which doesn't happen that often because I'm an old,

been around the block. Did you see that old near yourself? No, that's just stuff out. Ask you to stop being mean to my friend. Okay, all right.

But I'm just saying, it's fun to be excited at this late date. It's going to be, it's going to be great. It's all people supporting us, except my mom. And it's just going to be in different ways. I'm just going to focus on Janet's face the whole time.

If I don't do well, she'll be so disappointed. Okay, we're back. I did have a corrections corner about using the term transvestite when I met transgender. And again, apologies for that. You know, I feel like there were so many things we were learning in the first couple years at this podcast.

Yeah, that I'm so glad we did. I feel like two nowadays with the full cultural dominance of drag. Everybody knows their terminology and everybody's gotten a really good education. The people at care. Yeah, have gotten their education about stuff like this.

“But I think we've proven on this show that our hearts are in the right place.”

And that we're totally willing to learn totally and correct ourselves for sure. And yeah, it's been, we've been lucky that we've been given that grace. So on the missing and murdered indigenous women girls and two spirit people issue, there was a major update after this episode. Canada's national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls released its final report on June 3, 2019.

And Connie Walker also continued doing major investigative podcast work after missing and murdered. Her podcast stole and surviving St. Michael's won both a Pulitzer Prize and a Peabody Award in 2023.

And it was the first podcast series to win both in the same year, which is so incredible.

Connie Walker's work on this topic on like the native topics about the injustices of like first nation tribes in this country in Canada.

“Just in general, but I think in Canada and specifically for Connie Walker is amazing.”

I've been trying to work on a story about residential schools for so long. Karen and I have been working on Molly all talking about it, working on it. But it is such a vast like the amount and extremity of abuse in those schools is so horrifying. It's like trying to put a concise story together, you know, from my point of view, it's taken forever. Because we're just like, how do we do this in a way that's actually going to be helpful to these conversations?

Totally. And until we figured out definitely go support Connie Walker listen to stolen surviving St. Michael's listen to missing and murdered like a native woman doing the work on behalf of our own people is it's really powerful. Do you remember that L.A. show? I do. It was a good one.

That was the one where the house lights were basically up the entire time. I could see every single person in the audience at that show. It makes it harder. That really makes it harder. I contact with people.

It was a really beautiful theater. It was very gold. Yeah. And it kind of felt like very fancy. Yeah.

It was really fun. It was cool being downtown too because like it's so historic, you know, there's just, again, when we go in those old historic theaters and makes it, it just fits our creepy ass haunted vibe so much. And then to do that in Los Angeles if all places is such an honor. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well, let's get into George the story about the murder of Rachel Hoffman. I think it's you, right? Did I do it last time?

Oh. Yeah. I go first to say. Yeah. Great.

“This is a case that I brought up a while back and couldn't remember the name of it.”

And everyone told me, of course.

That was listening and I couldn't, I couldn't remember, but I was so obsessed with this when I first heard about it.

So I'm so surprised I haven't done this one yet. This is the murder of Rachel Hoffman. Okay. And the creation of Rachel's law. And I heavily leaned on a 2012 New Yorker magazine article called The Throwaways by Sarah Stillman.

And like, she wrote that piece. Like, one awards. It's so good. Okay. And I just used a lot of her stuff.

Cool. And she's, and thank you. Okay. So Rachel, morning star Hoffman was born December 17th, 1984. She was his bright, friendly, open, lovely person.

Everyone who met her loved her. And by 20, 2008. Oh, so recently. Okay. Yeah.

By 2008, so she's 23 years old.

She had just graduated from Florida State University in Tallahassee. Also, we're Ted Bundy finished up, uh-huh. Yeah. With an undergraduate degree in criminal justice and psychology. Well.

So she's also, she'd also intern as a mental health, elemental health institute. And she had just been admitted to a master's program in mental health counseling, but she was also considering culinary school because she wanted to use cooking to connect with at-risk youth and, like, and counsel them through cooking.

Wow. So she's like a fucking good person. That's a great idea, too. Yeah. Right.

So picture, like, young, pre. Oh, my God. What the fuck? Mili Cyrus. She kind of looked like that.

Like, like, little Hannah Montana before she transformed the Hannah. I don't know. I didn't watch the show, but I'm long hair. Yeah.

Like, long, pretty red hair. Cute face. Like, she's like a hippie, like a hippie jock that you, you know, with no. And she likes going to, like, fast music festivals,

but not, like, Coachella, you know, with the fucking, not she wasn't using cultural appropriation and going to, like, fish concerts and jam bands and shit.

“Why are you saying that, like, that's so much better?”

I mean, come on. I mean, I would both rather stay home. But I'm not a 23-year-old. I don't mind. It's not an either/or.

There's so many other options. She's Jewish. She had been, you know, whatever. And she had a, the social media account for her cats, her cat.

Whatever 2008 social media account was, she made one for her cat. She's just nice. Yeah. Oh, nice face.

Um, but, but, but, but, but she's just got to these music festivals with all her friends. And she'd, while these were this crazy purple, fluffy hat. That was her thing.

Her six or six-year-old. So, her camera-quay appropriation. Exactly. Exactly. So, she was an only child and she was

forced to her parents for what they didn't know was that she was in a court-ordered substance abuse program.

while she was a senior in college,

“police had pulled her over for speeding and found”

almost an ounce of pot in her car. Um, which isn't a lot of pot, right? I don't think so. Okay. But, but don't drive around with--

Oh, no, no, no. But, no, no, don't do it. Um, especially Florida. Oh, God, no. I mean, like California, don't do it.

Great. But don't don't do it. Yeah. Um, so, it required that she take regular drug testing, but instead of being charged with anything,

they just made her go to this court-ordered substance abuse program. White. Right. She wasn't in prison. I mean, she-- she didn't stay there

and in like that, but she had to go.

Anyway. And she was keeping that from her family. I-- don't think they knew. Okay. You're pretty sure they didn't know.

Okay. Um, she did smoke pot, though regularly. And she also sold in small quantities for her friends around campus. College shit.

Yeah. You know? Not fucking saying it's okay at all. But if you're wearing a big fuzzy hat, you're probably going to smell--

smell-- Sell small amounts of-- And smell it. And you're gonna smell like small amounts of pot. Well, it just so happens that her neighbors,

a year later in April, 2008, smelled pot. It's funny that you segmented into that. Uh-huh. And coming from her apartment,

we're like called the cops. We're like, dude, do you got to check this house out? I think it's a drug house. I know.

Um, but, but, but, but, but, okay. Uh, and so-- So really chill neighbors. Cool people. The best neighbors.

Um, I just remember when-- What? We lived in our old place in our neighbors. We were like up and up in our faces.

Yeah. We lived so close to us. I once like yelled at some kid to be quiet because he was screaming as fucking head off in his mommy-out.

I know what you guys do. [laughs] Just like the smoke spot. And she smelled it. Yeah.

And we was like, oh no. Good come back. You got it. You're right. Your child should be able to scream as much as he wants

because we smoke pot. Um, okay. Okay. So they-- when they searched her apartment because of this and they found,

um, just under a quarter pound of weed, four ecstasy pills and two valium pills. And I asked events,

“how maybe how much is a quarter pound of marijuana?”

Like, looked it up until midnight. He said it would cost at that time around $800,000. So she's probably-- it's intent to sell probably as well. You don't have that much pot. Yeah.

Um, because of this, she could face serious prison time for felony charges, including possession of cannabis with intent to sell and maintaining a drug house. So she's freaking the fuck out over this.

She just got in fucking admitted to this master's program. You know, what am I going to do? A lot of a lot. Um, the officer in charge at this point,

Ryan Pender, knew that she was just a small-time drug person supplying to her friends, wasn't a fucking kingpin or whatever. Right.

So offers to make her ideal. Uh, all she has to do is identify other marijuana dealers in town. Do you know this one? I feel like I have a shade of--

Yeah. Um, my God. There we go. Yeah. if I, she just has to identify other hot dealers in town, and she'll get off, they won't even

charge her with anything. The answer has to be known. Always know I want to lawyer.

“You can't be a snitch. Don't be a snitch. Don't do it. Don't you trust that that's what's”

going to happen. Right. The, the, the, the, the, the concept of anonymity, please, from all movies and TV, we know that will be broken. Oh, here we go. Okay. So, uh, she was like, no, I won't do that. Some of those people are her friends, and she refused to snitch on her friends. But then they were like, well, how about that? Instead, you become a confidential informant. CI, they call them in a drug scene, strict sting operation, like a bigger one. And she thought that any charges would be reduced

or even drops as she agreed to become a CI. Right. So, the next day, she first tried to set up another student at Florida State who was a small time campus dealer, and she felt so guilty about it that she called the guy and it was and told him what she planned to do. She's just like a, like, look on her photo. She's like a sweet baby angel and not that it's okay, but she's clearly and I'm her fucking head. Yes. We'll see. That's the thing is that idea that you're going to

hear us how I'm going to solve things. Here, I'm, I'm going to get a little extra spending money by not getting a job at Staples. What I'm going to do is, is sell small amounts of, like, free and above. Yeah. And it's like, that's fine, except for you are now in the drug world. Exactly. And that's how things spin out past your control. You're just pretending that you will have control. Yeah. And you keep doing that and you keep making bigger and bigger bets.

Like we were talking about exactly like a Norwegian procedural drama. Yes. Ask always get a lawyer immediately. Get that lawyer. Keep your mouth shut. Yeah.

with police. Oh, stuff. So he, the police had told Rachel at this point that run in the middle,

“pop bus would not fucking suffice and they needed bigger dealers. So this was totally not Rachel's”

fucking thing. She didn't know bigger dealers. But the, the, the student that she had called was like, I know someone. There's a dude at a car detailing shop near campus who he's seen dealing drugs. And I, and he said, I bet he couldn't get you up. So she didn't even know this guy. Oh, no. So Rachel goes to the car shop and speaks with the guy. His name is Danielle Bradshaw. He's 23. And he gets his brother-in-law, Andre Green, who's 25, to help her as well. She lacks the

note. She needs a bunch of cocaine. 1500 X to C pills. Oh, no. And as she described it, it quotes small and pretty handgun. What? So, and they were like, why the fuck do you need that you little thing need a handgun? And she said, I'm a little Jewish girl. I need to protect myself. So this, I mean, she got caught with four X to C pills. And they're giving her the total amount that they, that for all this would cost that they were going to give her was $13,000. So this is a amount that

is that way beyond her level of comprehension as a drug person. Yeah, the thinking behind this of like, we're going to get a mole. And it's a person who is not truly in the drug world. Totally. Like, it's such a sideways approach. Right. So on the afternoon of when the drug bust was supposed to go down when she was going to bust them. So Rachel goes to the police headquarters and officer Pender places a surveillance wire and recording device in her purse, which I guess is totally

against standard procedures. They usually hide it more and it's not in her purse. Yeah, but also is where that she had it would have to keep her purse on her the whole time. Yeah, she probably looks suspicious. Yeah. So they give her $13,000 in marked bills. Can you imagine carrying $13,000 around with you? I did a lot. That's just, it's how I'm comfortable just so I can get what I want.

I mean, I'm always in cash. I mean, you always do. I always have to borrow like $1 bills for the

“ballet. For me, I'm a person I've never had dollar bills. You know, it's really funny. I can't remember”

what happened, but I something happened where I didn't have use of my ATM card. I'm sure I lost it or I just a thing I often do is just entirely blank on the pen. Like, I'll just be standing there. I'll be like, no, I don't know what that is. Is it every day? No, I do. I've done that like twice, but so I keep somewhere in my home when I ever say this, but I mean, I keep cash so that I can always have it. That's kind of my weird fear. Yeah. I also score a little way. I'll put

like $3 bills in my car somewhere. Do you remember where you keep all of it? No, no, no. It's just like, I don't think about it. I don't want to look at it. It's just like, I know something is there just in case they need it. Well, they say, like, for the end days, you know, like you told, keep your gas tank full, but also hide money in your house. Hide money and make sure the money is gold to blinds because no cash money won't help you. Well, you know, my fucking dad bought me silver. He's

like, that's true. Silver. Paper money is not going to have any value during the end days. Right.

Silver will always have value. He thinks that's what's going to happen. Why is he by the whole

bunch of bananas? Because that third Mad Max, fresh fruit was just the ultimate trading item.

“Herring's onto something. Remember, just get, I don't know if bananas have seeds or if you have to”

grow a tree or whatever. Get a banana tree. There is a mini banana tree in this complex. Is that true? I can't imagine they're at it all. But just build a little fence around it and say, please, this is mine. Put a put posted note that says, this is my yogurt. Don't eat these bananas. I have a lemon tree, but that's in, that's just going to give me a bunch of like, canker source. I want it. No, everyone's going to need a, what's it called? You know, citrus?

Yeah, but the vitamin C for so they don't get scurvy. Yeah. Okay. Then I have to build my fence out be around my lemon and drink for pool water. Yeah. Frank, I already drinks the pool water all the time. Fucking Franks. You know, like, I'm a cozy cat, drinks the fucking pool water, too. And they, they do it. I can guarantee you that the owner of the cozy cat, they have like a, one of those, the other things that has like a water falling. Yeah. And they still won't drink that

stuff. Animals. Right? Am I right? Make of a my space page? My cats already have an Instagram account. Okay. So they, the police assure her that they, that they would be watching her the entire time in listening. They were in 19 law enforcement agents tracking her and a drug enforcement

where she was taken care of. Right. So she's supposed to meet the guys, the drug dealers at a

“public park. And then all these weird things happen. Like on her way there, maybe she had met them”

and that like let's go to a different location, which she wasn't supposed to do. They go to that location and then the agents had, you know, she had been breaking up because it was like an outdoor park. There's no, a lot of self service was not an indoor park. It was not an indoor park. Well, there was not the bio dome. It wasn't. Um, this is the saddest thing. Her boyfriend when she texted him that she's on her way. Her boyfriend joked, uh, texted. I kind of like you. So be safe.

No. No. So then she, so she loses contact with the officer while she's on her way to the

second location. And by the time he hears from her again, she tells him that she's following them

to another location and this one's at the end of a dead end, uh, road. And before, so this is what Pender officer Pender says before he tells her not to go knowing that a dead end road is a really bad thing to be caught in. He loses contact with her completely again. Um, but she didn't know that they had lost contact with her. She's not a fucking cop. She's not a trained anything. Exactly. Oh, oh, she didn't know they lost contact. She didn't know that they couldn't even hear her wire.

Um, because how would she know? Right. Because she had been on the cell phone with her that dies and she's like, well, I'm so wired. So, so she didn't know. And there was a helicopter at some point. So they must be monitoring me in some way. Um, so at this point, officers began frantically searching the area trying to find her. Uh, and the DEA plane circles overhead, but there's like, because it's an outdoor park. There's all this intense brush I had and, uh,

overhead, so they can't see anything. Um, by the time they find the road and the turnoff, Rachel and her car gone. Everyone's gone. And instead, they found a spent 25 caliber round and two live ammunition rounds, six cigarette butts and a single black flip flop, which Rachel had been wearing when she left the station. Oh, no. I remember reading about this when it happened in 2008, sorry, like 28 and like just being so sad, but also, I was picturing her and, and how that,

how, you know, when she knew something was going down and how awful that would have felt, but also, you know, I had dabbled in drugs before and how usually, you know, she was this Jewish girl who was just fucking around and having this time in her life and she was trying something new and made bad decisions, which I totally did too. Yeah. There's no reason I, I wouldn't have been in that situation as well. Right. So it's, it's just, and it's the thing of, which, which happens to

people, uh, of all walks of life all the time, which is you did a bat, we caught you doing a

“minor bad thing. You're not your ruin or, you know, you have to get involved in this other”

thing that you, like, now you just have no choice. Now you're kind of our pawn. Right. And just so frightening. Yeah, just so feeling I had no choice and no way to get out of a situation. Yeah,

you always do, even if it's fucking going in jail for nine months, you know, it happens,

take the hit like Henry Hill and just fucking do your time and what am I saying? I was never Karen's going out and play his mind. No way. No way. No way. I'm going back to jail. No way. Okay. Uh, so at this point, Rachel had been working as a CI for the police department for almost three weeks. That said, and she, and yeah. So let's fucking veer off and talk about CI's for a minute. Rachel was just one, and this whole article, this amazing article by Sarah Stoman,

has a lot of information about this. I'm just kind of picking some, some parts, obviously. So Rachel was just one of thousands of people every year that helped police, uh, build cases in exchange for leniency of their own cases, as we know. Um, and it's estimated up to 80% of all drug cases in America involved CI's. Yeah. That's crazy. 80%. 80%. And this is partly because police departments have these crazy budget issues. They don't have the kind of money to get

“undercover officers and, and, and train CI's with the only way they can bust these people. And”

it's a small, it's like a small town. They know the cops or everyone knows who the cops are. I'm going to send one of them in fucking fake mustache and be like, "Oh, help some drugs, please." Yeah. You can't just donny brosco it up when you're in, like, small town of America. Exactly. But it also means that they're sending out untrained, sometimes juvenile, juvenile. I thought you're gonna say sometimes Jewish. Sometimes even Jewish. And you believe it. Occasionally,

Yeah. So another factor that came into play with this whole fucking fiasco is that the

“was the war on drugs. Yeah. Remember our favorite fucking topic. Yeah. In the mid 80s, Congress”

enacted federal sentencing guidelines that imposed harsh mandatory minimums for even fucking petty drug offenses, which means that some sentences for marijuana sales were longer than those for murder. Yeah. It's horrifying. It's ridiculous. And of course, that meant that the US prison population over that course of that decade doubled and drug and for informants surged. From the problem with the CI system is that it's totally unreliable. It's usually young people

from lower income communities often, black and Latino, who are under pressure to be informants,

because they face, you know, so much more if they get caught with these drugs and if they get

put to take the jail and, you know, they have no choice. Yes. Let's do this. In one fucking in saying case, LeBron Gather, he's a 16 year old student at a public high school in Lebanon, Kentucky. So in an uncharacteristic of him, he gets in an argument with his school's assistant principal and punches him in the face. Oh. He's taken into custody for juvenile assault and without a lawyer or parent present, an officer from the Kentucky State Police tells him he could go to prison, but he, if

unless he agreed to become a local drug informant. So this isn't even a fucking drug charge. After a sting LeBron had to testify before a grand jury against the drug dealer, he'd set up Jason Knowell. Jason Knowell then makes bail and the very next day, the police send LeBron back to him to do another sting on the guy he had just testified against, thinking that he didn't know who was the snitch. What? So they sent LeBron wearing a wire to buy more drugs from the

student. It turns out that, of course, Jason Knowell, the drug dealer knew that LeBron was the one who was snitching on him because everyone finds out everything. Right. Well, and also the drug dealers, it's their business. They have to be like three steps ahead. Yeah. And it's like, if it was another officer that was being sent out undercover, his officer buddies would fucking make sure he was safe. But it's just some person that they don't care about and are not, you know, it's not their

business to make sure that this person is neither trained nor really safe. Right. Okay. So detectives lose track of LeBron and during the sting and Jason Knowell drives off with him. LeBron is tortured being with a bat shot run over by a car and dragged by a chain through the

“woods and dies. And it wasn't until 2014. So this was in, I think it's 98. I didn't write it down.”

2014, 18 years after his death. Yeah. What's the math? No idea. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of his, so they fucking ruled in favor of his family in wrongful death. It got over fucking turned, well, so frustrating. Then finally, the Supreme Court overturned that overturning and in his wrongful death suit and they were awarded a hundred and forty-eight thousand dollars, which is not enough. None of it is enough, obviously. But I bet you that's that thing of when they're,

they built a system around this kind of, like, these kind of setups. Yeah. So when that system crumbles, they have to make sure people can't then retroactively sue them. Right. Because there could be so many people that could do that. Yeah. Have you, I mean, people tweet these things on Twitter all the time where the, like in California places where drugs be in pots, legal, or becoming legal,

or whatever. There's these people are like, here's this woman who made three million dollars in

her new pot business of making edibles aren't these cute. And then it's like, and here's this black teenager who was sent to jail for 50 years. Yeah. Because they dealt pot. Yeah. And it's thought, like, there's somebody who tweets it all the time, but it's really mind blowing of, like, the, that, that white cultural filter of one white people make pot for each other. It's cool because we have cancer and we have pain. Yeah. And see, be deoial and blah, blah. And when black people

“deal pot, you're a criminal and you should be, you should go away to jail forever. And it's”

super fucked up. I mean, and then in a couple of years and a decade into, like, when pot is decriminalized everywhere, if we're going to look back and be horrified, yes, at how we've been treating people who are addicted and smoke pot. And I mean, more than anything, that's the problem. As you need to treat the people who are addicted to drugs and need help rather than,

doing pot. There's people who are on oxycontin who drive like city buses and shit. Like,

“with there's an oxycontin problem in this country that's ravaging like certain states. And I mean,”

that's, you know, the war on drugs is almost like bid itself in the ass because now we're, now we just have pharmaceutical companies are like, oh, our drugs are fine. Yeah, you can't do those drugs. And we'll pay the doctors money if they prescribe them even though they're not necessary. Yeah, they know they're addictive and we're lying to you about how fucking addictive they are. Mm-hmm. It's very dark. It's a very dark. It's a, I watch intervention.

Oh, I don't want to all those shows. Um, okay, there's also a case, uh, and this, so LeBron was African-American. Shelly Hilliard. She's an African-American teen from Detroit and she was caught with half an ounce of marijuana, which is not a lot threatened with jail time, but it was especially scary for her because she is, uh, is trans. And so she would have been sent to a male prison.

“Oh, no. She's super scary for her. Yes. So, uh, so she agrees to become a CI. They set her up to”

set up her drug dealer. He finds out an ultimately strangles, um, mutilates, burns, and dismembers

Shelly's body because she set him up. One witness in the murder case testifies that police had revealed Shelly's identity to her dealer. What? All for an ounce of weed. I mean, I know. Okay, back to Rachel. Okay. So, the morning after her disappearance, she's disappeared. Her, the cops call her parents and they're like, "Hey, have you seen Rachel? Do you know where she is?" Yeah, and they don't even, yeah. So, they're like, "What the fuck? They go to Hatella Hassee.

They're only told that Rachel is missing, not that she was a CI, um, or the circumstances of her disappearance. They don't tell her, um, her parents anything. They go back to Rachel's apartment to wait and, you know, for next steps or whatever, they turn on the news and that's when they discover that she had, quote, "provided assistance during a police operation." But they find out on TV, on the TV, and that then they find out that they, the official suspect

foul play is going on. So, they don't even know that there was foul play. Um, so then on May 9th, 2008, after a two-day search, after Rachel disappears, the two suspects are caught near Orlando, and they lead police to a dry creek bed in rural Taylor County, which is southeast of Tallahassee, where Rachel's body is found. Wow. Um, it turns out Rachel, and then it turns out that the two drug dealers had

fucking pegged her as a mark from the beginning, and they had never intended to sell her any

drugs. All the ecstasy was fucking aspirin. So, they were going to trick her to be in with. So, it was even a stupid fucking thing to begin with. Um, and then it's totally, it's not totally clear because no one knows exactly what happened, but it's thought that they found the wire in her purse, and uh, freaked the fuck out. They shot her five times in the head and chest. So, that oppressed conference at the fucking scene while her body is still there. Officer Dave McCrony,

McRainee of the Tallahassee Police Department, says, at some point, at some point during the investigation, she chose not to follow the instructions. She met, uh, Green and Bradshaw on her own, that meeting ultimately resulted in her murder. So, they're immediately saying it was her own fault because she went to another location, which is like, can you imagine if she went to a remote one location? They were like, let's go to another one, and she was like, no, and refused to. Right.

And she thinks there's a plane. There's 19 officers. She's being followed. She's never done this before.

She's never done this before. Yeah. Um, um, uh, friends and family of Rachel are fucking pissed that the police were trying to portray her also as a hardcore drug dealer, like criminal, even though she had never been convicted of any crimes. Um, and in the media, and that because

“she didn't follow directions, her murder was her own fault. That's what they were trying to make”

it seem. Uh, Rachel's parents are fucking pissed. Um, so Earl of Hoffman and Margie, White, they decide to put all their energy into making policy changes to the way CIs are used. So they wanted to answer some questions like, why was Rachel used in such a high risk police thing when she had no training, why was she sent to by a semi automatic pistol and she had never even fired a fucking weapon before? Um, why was she pressured into taking part in the up in all of this

before she consulted a lawyer? Uh, you know, and they're also not red Miranda rights and not given their amendment fucking things because they're not under arrest. You know, right? So it's basically like, look, if you want this to go away. Yeah. And it's under the table. Right. You're not under arrest, so you maybe they don't think to ass for a lawyer. Um, they won policy changes to the program,

drug treatment program is or not allowed to hang out in a associate with people who are

“dealing and doing drugs. Right. And the first place, um, and that non-violent low-level drug”

offenders like Rachel should not be used in stings targeting traffickers with histories of violence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Additionally, CI should be given the right to counsel. That was their thoughts. Um, and then they found out that California was one of the few states that had any rules governing the use of teenage informants and prohibited recruits younger than 13, which like isn't a great. Like that's just, you look cut it off a junior high. Like that and they're the best

example of doing well. Wow. Which I was 13 when I was using drugs. And they could have, fucking had me rat on all those kids. I was also in your 13. Oh, yeah. That's not good. Like that idea that you're just going to like, yep. We're going to blackmail this, this like we're going to

“blame this teenager to get another teenager to get the, whatever your old who sells a little more”

pot in this town is a little more pot in this town, which is like you're not getting, you're not getting enough to street who's a danger. You're fucking just perpetuating this thing of, you know, then these kids get out of prison and they can't get a job because they have a record. And so California, 13, that rule had been put into place after 17 year old Chad McDonald was brutally murdered. And it's 15 year old girlfriend raped and shot in retaliation for Chad's work as a low-level

drug CI in 1998. Oh my god. Yeah. So then, man, this kid, Chad, B. S. C. I, but everyone knew he was dealing meth and doing meth at the time and the police actually knew that, too, but still used him. And everyone knew he was to snitch and that still happened. Okay. So Rachel's parents began working on Rachel's law and they got the father of one of Rachel's friends was a Florida attorney named Lance Block. He agreed to work pro bono to help them. And on May 7th, 2009,

one year after on the one year anniversary of Rachel's murder, Rachel's law signed by the governor of Florida, but it's stripped of so many provisions. It's so basic. But it does establish new guidelines for law enforcement when dealing with confidential informants. So it does start the conversation of changing the way it's done. And it's the first comprehensive legislative legislation of its kind in the nation. And they're still working to get policy reforms on a national level. So they're

still fucking working on it. And in 2012, in a wrongful death lawsuit, Rachel's parents won

2.6 million settlement from the city of Tallahassee along with a formal apology. Wow. Sounds

way different than what we're all in God. Yeah. Of my man, of course. Yeah. Of the police departments conduct the grand jury who are not like judge beauty and they don't fucking usually tell people what you know what I mean. Yeah, they said letting it quote letting a young immature woman get into a car by herself with 13,000 dollars to go off and meet two convicted felons that they knew were bringing at least one firearm with them was unconscionable decision

that cost Miss Hoffman her life. And internal fairies investigation said that police officers have committed at least 21 violations in nine separate policies with this case. Wow. So green

“and Bradshaw now serving life sentences for the murder of Rachel Hoffman. And I think her parents”

put together an annual music and art festival called The Purple Hatters Ball. Because remember she wore that purple hat. Yeah. And it's created to celebrate the memory of Rachel. It's fucking her favorite jam bands. And it's like space painting and all these lovely things. And everyone was purple. And the next festival is in live oak Florida this June first and second of 2018. So murdering us and she was a fucking criminal justice major. So you know she wasn't

through crime probably. So that was the murder of Rachel Hoffman. Amazing. So sad. So sad. And

frustrating. frustrating. Yeah. Okay we're back. Do you have any updates? No updates but I was just thinking about reading the story again or listen to the story again how cool that this podcast was for us to cover these cases that had been in our heads for so long and had nowhere to go. Because this is one of those cases where I read about it and read about it and I was like what the fuck? I want to talk to someone about this. And then being able to cover it is just like the whole

Yeah. Because it's just so fucking corrupt and fucked up and sad. And you know those stories where you're like I could see that happening to me or I could see how that would happen and it's just

getting her story out. Yeah. It's important and hoping it never happens again. But all right let's

get into Karen's story. This is the big one. The death of Bonnie Lee Bakley. Okay so this I'm doing this story this week because I mentioned it last time. It's the murder of Bonnie Lee Bakley. Yes and and the you know eventual trial of famous Hollywood actor Robert Blake. Fuck yes Karen. And it centers around one of the most popular and exciting and telling restaurants

“in the valley. Vitello. It's gone, right? No I think they re did it. It's still there. Oh yeah.”

Okay it's just totally different though. Because it used to be like diving. Well it used to be let you know that was it was like clearly it was like built in the 60s 70s probably early 70s I must say. So the inside was like these big nogha hide booths that were like red red plastic fake leather. I love it. There's a huge like wall you know fresco or whatever you want to call it actually right of like I don't know I can't remember if it was like Venice and grapes or a grapes draped on

everything in their dusty because no one there cleans them. Yeah like literal like plastic grapes like look at the bounty of Milan or whatever. Yeah and they have like house a glass of house candy for three dollars or yes and they have those like melty red candles. It's just the whole it's exactly like the classic Italian restaurant and the food like the garlic bread is just a big loaf of sourdough cut in half with garlic on it. I love old school places like this so fucking much I want to cry.

Yeah it's you know exactly what you're gonna get and Vitello's is good food. Is it because I don't even care if it's like a if it's the fucking on the answer's on point I'm good. Well do you like opera singers because they have that? Yes they'll have all this sudden opera singer will bust out singing. Can I tell you something really quickly? Do you know the one that's just like this on Vermont called Steven you know hold on. It's on Vermont dressed in. No it's on Vermont

across from the house of pies. Oh yes it's um we used to order pizza from there when I lived on Alexandria. Yeah hold on it's like dominoes it's like it's not it's I mean no dominoes but like

“um it's called this is over the pea and yeah I know it's sorry we can cut this out. Why am I doing this?”

I like Pedro's Polaro's that's right all leave it to it polaro's leave it in polaro's just like that also when you go in and you're waiting for your table you can get a glass of like dollar boxed

one to the best so once I've been so into the first time where like this place is amazing

and it was a Friday night so they had their a guy with a um hey huh what do they call huh and a courty and walking around singing at tables and I go oh my god that guy thought King was an entertainment at my brother's bar mitzvah. No! I was like his your name fucking Israel whatever it was and he was like freaking out too and it was him and I took a photo and he's like I remember your brother that you don't uh that's amazing no you know what it is it's the

not chain hometown restaurant in pedellama it's um vulpies where we go with my family and half of it is the original grocery store from the 20s oh my god that they took the like counterout and put in tables so that you're sitting in the old grocery store and dying it's really awesome and that's up the street from that hotel pello matella wanting to stay back home with you

“apparently one day you would I think we know our Sacramento show we should yeah we can say Laura's okay”

totally um but anyway that's that's so that's a tell us it's it's neighborhood it's very Italian like it's it's it's if you like kiss your fingers you know style it's telling bullshit that's it's there is that they're saying yes that's actually painted on the sign if you like kiss your finger style Italian bullshit this is your jam a row um so this was the play okay so let's just get into

this fucking thing because it's so insane so we'll just talk first about Robert Blake right

he famous actor and up until this point he was kind of one of those he was like a Hollywood stalwart I would say he started he was one of the kids on our gang oh really yeah he was

he grew up he was born a nutley new jersey to a vaudeville family his father was an actor and an

“alcoholic abusive an asshole mommy unfailing and the three siblings they had a little like a vaudeville”

show with the little kids um called the three little hillbillies put him to work right so they he's and he described his childhood as feeling like he was like a like a monkey with a monkey grinder like he was just out there begging for change around town in that new jersey which is horrifying yeah sorry I got all of the things I'm telling you right now from a show that I couldn't love the title of more rich and acquitted so spoiler alert no we know but I mean yeah but we know because

this was a famous case anyway but I didn't that show in any I mean it's so funny because it's when I when I look this up on YouTube there's like a whole there's a whole realm of rich and acquitted

and they're real because I when I first started listening to it I was like God they're being real

“judgey about like money and they keep talking about his money and then it's basically talking about how”

when you have money uh the entire justice system works totally differently for you and the whole approach and strategy to the justice system so system I'm not drunk so so Steven the three little hillbillies have uh you know minor success in nutling or jersey in this surrounding area um so then but it's it's the um mid-30s so because it's after the depression the movie business is exploding everyone's like I've got I do have 25 extra cents I want to spend it on entertainment I want

things to be fun I want to go and like watch the zig-zag full follies or whatever something big in a in a movie theater and at the good time so um his father moves the whole family out to Hollywood because he thinks he's going to be the movie star madness um they're so poor they sleep in the

“car you know it's really hard but the father gets a job in a hardware store and uh his Mickey”

was his name at the time Mickey Gubatosi was his original Robert Blake's name his Robert Blake's real name honey he was born his Mickey Gubatosi hi yeah Mickey Gubatosi uh he's five years old when he gets the job on the argang series wow and he starts as an extra and they showed clips on the show and he's the cutest you see him he's got this little twinkle in his eyes but he's also like he's like a little tough guy and it's so cute and then with all I mean argang if you go back

if you ever have a death free day and you just want to have some dumb fun the argang series was the cutest sweetest thing and all those little kids were really talented now there is extreme fucking racism because it was the thirties yeah but the cool thing was or I won't say cool but the thing that made it slightly different was that buckwheat was one of their friends and hung around right um but you know there's also as anything from from before that time 95 it's you know a different time anyhow so he

basically he's the one that makes a big and he from from uh argang um when that's over he kind of like

it basically emancipates himself runs away from home he joins the army um he ends up marrying a woman named Sandra Kerr he has two kids with her starts his family it looks like he's about to fade into obscurity is like a character actor that like was a child actor you know because people it was really cool they had interviews with like other little kids that had been on that series that grew up to also be actors so you could recognize them as they were talking they were talking

about how Robert Blake as a child actor was really good he was a really good actor he was a really serious child like he was there to like kill it yeah which is very significant seriously exactly not just because his parents wanted him to have he right not just because he would get the shit beat now to him when he went home but but it's just that thing where you know like when those when little kids have it that kind of way why am I looking at that kid there's six kids and that's the

one that's behind yeah he was that so um right as he begins to fade into obscurity he gets that part in in cold blood whoa and if you haven't seen the movie that Robert Blake stars Robert Blake stars as you know one of the two killers in it in cold blood and he's so good and it's really I only

saw a clip of it I've never seen the entire movie start to finish yeah but it's really amazing I

think I watch it but didn't realize it was him and you don't watch it again yeah because it's old it's like a thing it's young amcy yeah um but it's really good also and then it started making me think

uh that that short British actor that's in he was in ton he's been in tons of stuff he's so good

“and he plays um kumikapodi oh you remember that one and they go out to start interviewing the”

families it shows how tremendous about he wrote that book yeah that was uh what's his face still of smart Hoffman did one of uh version and then there was a so there was one with Philipsy more Hoffman um and there was another one with Sandra Bullock and Toby McWire no British Toby British Toby Steven's gonna find it Steven once he's done grooming his mustache did Toby Keith Toby Jones no no no no no yeah yeah but he's such a good actor isn't everything

okay um and that oh infamous is the name of the biopic okay from 2006 okay then there's also the the the Philipsy more often one which is give it a lucky it's good I like to I just love that story that you know so many like chumikapodi was just such a insane one of a kind beyond belief that was

a sidebar to beat all sidebars because uh basically he's in cold blood he comes back and that

that kind of brings his relevance back and then he gets the lead on the cop show burretta yeah

“do you remember that show I was too young you were definitely too young because I was like it was just”

in my consciousness that was like such a mid-seventy show yeah but burretta was the cop that had the parrot and so if you remember he was he was like the Italian looking cop with a white parrot on a shoulder and and he kind of had that columboe thing where he was like yeah man you know yeah and every man I guess is what that impression just but if you but you can look up old episodes of burretta and if only for the opening theme song has it was the the full version is recorded

and uh by Sammy Davis Jr. and it's called keep your eye on the sparrow and it's like you'll be all right on the sparrow you have to look it up you have to look it up it's so like it's so like disco the 70's got the like heart core effect like weird solo bongos at the beginning they're like here we go the streets keep it yes yes you have it oh shit oh you know it

“it has this show had everything and he ended up wanting an Emmy for that for that role I think”

that show went on for four years whatever so he basically then becomes a hit and he he does he

invests his money wisely and he builds his wealth and he also became a fixed drum that tonight show and so once burretta was over he was still like a big presence in Hollywood and um the in the winter of two the year 2000 uh he he goes to a jazz club one night and he meets a woman named Bonnie Lee bakely and they hit it off immediately so they and she didn't know he was a celebrity she actually had to call her sister and say have you ever heard of this name because he's saying

he's famous but that was in a quit it rich and a quit it um but they really did hit it off then at the end of the night no judgments they go out to his van and do it no it's like the

alley behind the jazz clothes that's the first night they met is they did that so then they're

sure that that is where their fate is sealed that's where in the alley in the alley behind a jazz club in the picture that they showed in rich and acquitted it was this purple van on these big old like jacked up wheels oh my god it it looks it's like half scooby do half like monster truck rally you're like where did you get this fucking car if you invested your money so god yeah why is that all right in 2000 too this car is from 2000 not that's the fucking good point this is not the

70s we're talking about not beretta anymore but he was truly keeping his eye on this barrel and keeping it real keeping it real in the alley that's right so now let's switch over to this woman this romance that he's having with Bonnie Lee bakely so she was born uh 1956 in Morris Town New Jersey she was also a whore growing up they're both her new jersey both from New Jersey about 20 years apart or so um this is she has a fascinating history and this woman if you want to talk about

thing this woman ever did uh was she was not there to defend herself or even even just be a presence now she did a bunch of fucked up shit and that ended up getting proven in court before she met Robert Blake but as the cops said in rich and acquitted doesn't mean she deserved get murdered and it doesn't mean you know it doesn't mean she's any less of the victim right um I just

“remember when this case started how often they talked like on the radio and you know like”

Howard Stern style talk shit on this woman yeah and apparently it was the lawyer's plan from the beginning no yes they were ready once the like indictment came or you know the charges were filed the lawyer had it already of like well here's the victim and here's her past it's it's

pretty intense so now going back to where she came from she was married for the first time and

divorced when she was 15 oh honey uh then she dropped out of high school after she had a marriage and a divorce what what I estimate to be sophomore year yeah then she was like you know what I'm past high school now which like when am I gonna go back to high school when are we gonna go to the spring form right I don't think so I'm a divorce and I'm above you all oh my god uh so she moved to New York City she wants to be a model she's really beautiful your great

features she's kind of a like bottle blonde but in that you know she's like got this big open face she wants to be a model she wants to be an actress and she goes right for those nudes she is like she just is she's like I'm ready to do what I want to do it and let's do this thing um she nothing pans out uh which sometimes happens when you take nands people are just like yep put him in the pile with the other nands sure uh she ends up marrying her second husband was her first

cousin no she has yeah she did it and she had three kids with him no don't do that either yeah yeah oh no like what are on here is this this is the sorry 70's it this is like the early 70's oh and they're having cousin kids cousin kids and kind of like a I want to be famous but but maybe I'll just do this instead that's all fine but don't marry your cousins right

yeah whatever the fuck you want don't marry your cousin um here's what's kind of cool

so she has all these pictures that she took trying to get break into show business essentially she's visionary she starts a male order nude photo mailing like service yes she puts personal ads in the back of like smut magazines that's like hey here's me she want me to send

“you my nude photos right to me here and send me this amount of money so that's why she starts”

fucking making bank on this business yes good for her so they're like I love nudes I was just reading this whole magazine of nudes I'd love more nudes from your home right and she's like I've got this um so she eventually makes so much money off of this business she can buy several homes in the Memphis area oh my gosh yeah so she's she's she's she's supporting that family she's like getting it done we're in the wrong business I mean you have to be willing to and some of the

pictures because they're exercise so past get on all fours with a cowboy hat on and nothing oh no I don't want to do that there was a lot of that kind of stuff yeah it's like can't be sure it seemed very it was like seven seven these porn had an innocence about it

“where it's kind of like look at me with no shirt on that's how that a lot of those pictures”

yeah I've seen Debbie does that list have you yeah is it good no it's fun good storyline now the best how we're finding a spoiler alert Debbie does that we know why the whole night time soap opera okay so now this is fascinating and it kind of shows you the mindset but also like you know she's from Tennessee she's living in Tennessee at this point right in the Memphis area Memphis Tennessee just double checking with myself um and she's trying she still has that thing

of like celebrity she's always been obsessed with celebrity ever since she was a little kid she

wanted it she wanted to be around it she wanted to be near it so she gets this idea in her head I'm going to hook up with Jerry Lee Lewis what yes cousins he loves cousins she loves her right in 1989 so she's 33 years old she's been married four times she's been arrested for drugs okay which it's the 70s it's gonna happen or and well now it's the late 80s okay

or the 80s were a bit nuts but so it's like 1989 is when she gets this Jerry Lee Lewis plan

“and she actually ends up hanging out and like sideling up and she's a gorgeous woman so like”

she eventually meets him she gets to hang out with them a little bit I guess she ends up hooking up with him she gets pregnant and tells him it's her baby and his baby it's his baby she's like look this is my baby so it's her baby and there's no way you can prove it around and Jerry Lee Lewis it's like sounds great shit I'm sorry I'm sorry keep hitting the like no that's okay so

basically Jerry Lee Lewis is like why don't you go ahead and take a paternity test for that baby

they have those in 89 yeah they were very popular back then and uh of course he was not the father oh man so that she basically takes her fourth husband it is like we're moving to California like she just gets out and actually actually have you looked this up because this is the best

“Claire Bonnie Lee Bakley she takes all that money from her home nude business and buys”

herself a billboard on sunset sunset strip like Angeline's dad Angeline's out except for it's just on the right side it's her headshot her 80's headshot her she's just like uh and then it just says Lee Bonnie that was her stage name uh Lee Bonnie with a phone number and I see this I need to see it's really it's so 80's to me it's just very like look here's an actress on a billboard it's so Angeline if you're not from LA but you've seen her like if they're if they're gonna do the

beginning of a haulie with movie they will cut to an Angeline billboard and that's that lady with the insane brush some plants she's like at the 80's she looks like the rocker chick who would hang out at like uh the whiskey yes in the 80's who would like hook up with metal

“did metal dude she's she's got a big kind of baby face tons of blonde hair all right there was a”

staple of my childhood when we come to LA to my grandma's house Angeline had a billboard there and I was just like I want to be like her one I'm right and I am that's it look at you and you saw yourself in that British tablet um you've made it so well also she was being bankrolled by some business man so it was just kind of like do you like this person put them in your movie or TV show and that's kind of the way some people were trying to get famous because nobody

because they hadn't figured out they can do stand-up comedy yet I'm gonna say if I can find this for you okay there it is that was on sunset oh wow yeah it looks it looks like a um real estate yeah photo it's very reasonable yeah and it is very very beautiful yeah right and it's just kind

she's just basically like if you drive by this and you want to put me in your saying

it's totally feel free okay plus I have home news yeah she bones for days she you know she looks like somewhere between Merrill Streep and Bonnie Ray yeah she has that look yeah um so if it like severe angles but pretty yeah okay and a nice tall forehead maybe a little Sigourney weaver going on there's a little weaver in there she starts writing so this was around the time we're Christian Brando ended up going to jail for um involuntary manslaughter right Merrill

Merlin Brando's son yeah right yeah he's going off the fucking rails yeah um that's a whole other I didn't even want to get into it because I'm like we should say that one yeah because that's a whole insane story so he's hardly would murderers but um so he's in jail so she's one of those people she starts writing him letters in jail sending him home home home spun news absolutely he's like this is great thank you so much and when it's out of jail they start having a relationship oh shit yeah

so that's basically kind of just this on and off thing they a lot of people in this special say like they're seeing each other ever like uh we get it we know what that means in a van in the alley behind the jaws club but then when she's seen Christian Brando in real life that's when she meets Robert Blake that's where that story overlaps okay so Bonnie kept flying back to Arkansas to pick up her mail because apparently when she lived and uh she was she ended up getting arrested there

because she had so many fake IDs and so many fake social security cards for all the different

um people that she pretended to be when she had that home news business she never gave anybody

her real name yeah so she she had a ton of fake ID like fraudulent ID basically she had gone home to pick

your ID she pulls out one 15 other ones fallout the cops like what the fuck she gets arrested for

fraud or whatever um so now she's on probation in in Arkansas so she has to have a address there yes so she keeps she like stays in LA for a little while goes checks her billboards to see if there's any takers and then she goes back she has to go back to Arkansas she's been doing that on and off hey but once she hooks up with Robert Blake so it's April of 1989 now she finds out she's pregnant oh yeah so she tells both Christian Brando and Robert Blake that they're the father

oh and uh she's kind of doing this thing of like I'm not sure which one I want to marry and I'm still trying to pick because Robert Blake had a ton of money and he was really stable and he was actually interested in her and unlike into her Christian Brando was young and good looking and you know kind of like the you know she was just trying to decide like who she was going to start a life with oh so she picks Robert Blake but then when she tells him so I'm pregnant and what he's just like you

lied to me and he he turns on her on her like this yeah he's super mean they have so it also turns out later on when this when this trial starts she recorded almost every single phone call she

“ever had so they like when when this case started um I think they remember this yeah they had”

they have phone calls of theirs they have phone calls of other people she had like she just recorded all phone calls weird so they could go through all of them and that's when they start to find out her very checkered past okay like the actual proof of it um but basically she she thinks she's gonna do this kind of like well I'm pregnant so let's hook up yeah I'm not I finally might made my decision of my two boyfriends in my Hollywood life and Robert Blake is like no fucking way

and it's so mean and like demanding she get an abortion telling her he's going to make her get an abortion like all this stuff that she actually ends up writing a letter to her lawyer saying if anything happens to me Robert Blake is responsible for my death oh my god so she ends up going

“back to um Arkansas or Memphis I think it was Memphis and she has the baby it's this beautiful”

little girl I mean we've all seen when the case came up you saw a million pictures of her

her name's Rose and she is so cute she looks like she's wearing like a little black hat of hair and she's got like bright red lips and the second that Robert Blake saw the picture of her he called Bonnie Blake Bacley and said get a paternity test because that's my baby and they did and it proved that it was his baby so he would know you know it looks exactly like him okay and especially when you see those like Argyle sort of her it she's looks just like I mean she's

really cute okay so he's basically says to Bonnie move back to LA make a life with me like I want him I like I love that baby that's my baby let's make this work and so she gets on a plane even though she knows she's breaking her parole or violating her parole she gets back on a plane uh to LA to to make this happen once she's in LA Robert Blake is like give the baby to the nanny for the day let's go out to lunch and when they're out to lunch two cops walk up

and go you're in violation of your parole in Arkansas you're under arrest stop it and take her away Robert Blake's like don't worry about it I'll take care of the baby we've got it covered those two cops bring her they don't arrest her they bring her to the airport and put her on a plane no back to Arkansas trickter yeah they tricked her so it turned out those two guys weren't cops no they were two friends of Robert Blake no and they base and this the entire time it was

his plan to get custody of that little girl oh my god so basically he's got the baby

his grown daughter is like keeping the baby at her house and he just basically sent her back and was like yeah trying to get rid of her so she realizes the whole thing was a scam she's furious she threatens to file kidnapping charges against him yeah so they start to work on a deal because she's like I will I will like throw the book at you yeah and the deal is she agrees to drop the charges if he'll marry her shut up uh huh so they that's the most romantic thing I've ever heard of

“this is remember the story you told about the guy writing the girl's name on the thing this is better”

sending it to a planet can you imagine a man so how'd you guys meet what if you had you infants meet well well I tricked him I threatened him with kidnapping charges he retaliated of course

love me and I'm never alone with him because I'm scared of him what the fuck so crazy so in this pre-nup they're basically it was like she was allowed to see the baby once a month and to see Robert Blake once a month that's the agreement it was the exchange he will marry you if you sign this pre-nup she get out of it then if she doesn't even get to be with her baby she didn't care about her baby well she does but she there's nothing she can do because she was she's not in a parole okay

“and they've already kind of got that so it's the kind of the only the only way she can see the baby”

still be in a life and still get the things she ultimately has always wanted which is

to be married to a celebrity oh man that feels I'm gonna move out of LA right now it's this tone is bad feelings wall to wall the lore good night I mean anyone who comes here has bad intentions or is going to have a bad time right or better get that intentions are you're going to get screwed screw before you get screwed that's for sure yeah yeah just real good feeling place it's it's the reason that people come here try to do something and then they're like oh no you

know what I'm now an evangelical question yeah because I've I've seen Scientologist or Scientologist or I'm going to be so vegan that I try to kill you like it's people just have to they have to reassess their entire life they like need a thing to focus on otherwise the focus on the horrible cause they're nothing or they'll buy themselves a billboard like it's this kind of town where you feel like you're so nothing for so long that you're like I'm just gonna buy a billboard it's the

only way I can bring through yeah it's just it's a nightmare so anyway I like it here though I mean no I love it it's pretty happy okay it's really gorgeous we're having a great time and guys we get to do a show at the art family today oh my god we're so that's amazing she signs this prena that basically gives her almost nothing um they marry in November of 2000 wish I could have been at that fucking ceremony I bet there was rose petals and love galore everywhere

“just like scattered yeah just use the word galore and I think I might never stop using the word galore”

it's so fun to say it's all that time it feels of this era yes and I mean like you know it's 2000 but like this fucking thing yeah six months later when her probation ends in Arkansas she officially moves to LA she moves into the guest house on his property

not into his house her husband's house she moves into the guest house and they never share the same house

they only ever set it up like that so it's not a real yeah I don't get it it's very strange so then this all leads up now we are up to May 4th of 2001 when Robert Blake asks Bonnie if she would like to go out to dinner today ever go like on dates or anything like that do you know it doesn't sound like yeah uh no it sounds like a real bummer man it sounds like the most toxic relationship and the most codependent bad intentions from every direction also it's that thing of like

“if you or if you get together with a guy and then the only way you can see staying in his life”

is tricking him into thinking he's fathered your child I'd go back to square what go back to that jazz bar and pick somebody else or start you know it go back you're going to further start it go to therapy yes start there ask some questions so then when you get to the jazz bar you pick a you know good kind person yeah you maybe drop some of that whatever happened to you in junior high

drop drop some of that my first marriage is when I was 15 see see if you can start it now yeah

none of this is helping anybody or constructive in any way so they go to dinner he says I want to take you to the cellos she's like hell yes yeah I love fucking dusty great fake grapes I love red sauce I love melted mozzarella on scone you know pottery box candy favorite what's the one the one that's so funny shibli oh then rosé that's my grandma used to order oh my god have been rosé oh she had a weird Newark accent because she was from San Francisco okay so they go to dinner

they're just how to recover uh recovered memory they're used to be a stand-up show if it tell us yeah this was like late 90s there's some kind of things I would be like sure I'll do that show and I would show up and I'd be like I'm not doing this I'm not going I'm gonna drink in the corner you can have the opera guy take my sa okay so Robert Blake tells Barney that he's brought

's involved in and for her safety um I'm sure she's like sounds great I'll have the breadsticks

“and um she ordered the breadsticks just breadsticks sounds fucking great you know when you're”

trying to be lady like on a day yeah you're on diet I'll just get seven breadsticks and I just have the breadsticks and a picture of I see god I love the telos so they leave the restaurant at nine 24 and between nine 24 and nine 40 Bonnie Lee Bakley is shot in um Robert Blake's car in the parking lot of the telos he she's so he they get into the car and then he goes sorry I left my gun in the restaurant I'll be right back and goes back into the restaurant to get his gun that he

says he left in the booth great there are no witnesses from the restaurant that say he went back

into the restaurant no one saw him go in and get his gun but while he he claims and his alibi is that when he while she was getting shot outside he was inside getting his gun but nobody saw him no one saw but it's the perfect alibi because it's like why was inside with my gun just say you went inside to pee like why did he have to introduce the gun part I guess to cover the fact that that's where his gun was like make it real clear that oh he didn't even have his gun on him yeah the gun wasn't

anywhere but in the restaurant why didn't he actually do that and and wave it everyone with the gun hi guys so they all said they saw him waving with the gun you know I don't know listen I'm a master fucking criminal criminal criminal I mean would that have helped be like hey guys you know thanks again thanks my life just got shot this one's for the opera singer to into the ceiling I'm sorry I'm making light of this no no I mean what we're making light of is the plan the whole we're making light of

his life and how fucking stupid it is and also how Hollywood makes you think you can do things you shouldn't and can't do but if fucking money and acquittal the TV show which acquitted has shown us anything it's true it is true it's true it's why people want it so badly is because it gets you to a place I was right rich and acquitted it gets you to a place where you are untouchable

“and that's what everybody wants that's real power so I'm gonna be touchable oh do you I don't want”

to be untouchable I think you're silky soft and totally touchable baby soft thank you so at nine forty okay Robert Blake rings the doorbell of a neighbor of the tellows why because he went there to call 911 to the neighbors screaming going fucking berserk god um and the neighbor is it's a guy named Sean Stanich it's his house okay he goes there to his house to call 911 when he leaves and the cops go to like go to the crime scene he he he calls he waits a little

while then he calls police again and he asks them to come and and look through his house because he he thinks Robert Blake might have hid something there while he was there he says his behavior was so strange and over the top and bizarre and he was screaming and being super crazy about my life my life whatever that he was like I don't I just want you guys to come and look I feel like he did

“something and I didn't catch it which I think is amazing and such a cool move where it's like”

could I just didn't invite you guys back it's like he didn't even try to look for it himself he was just like certain's fucking off and I am not putting my fingerprints on it no get the authorities in here absolutely a step well done Sean Stanich so and other neighbors in the neighborhood were like yeah he was just running around screaming and like and like just so clearly presented like I'm freaking out but a little vaudevillian and over the show play it to the back what do you think right yeah exactly

play for the back row yeah so uh so police are like well this is strange because again no witnesses actually saw him go into the telos the second time and he also Bonnie had a cell

phone and was always on her cell phone she was like as we know for her recorded messages obsession

she was a big phone person always had her phone on her he could have taken her phone and called 911 right there at the car and he didn't do it okay he also he was taken in for questioning after like they all left the scene so Bonnie was shot twice in the car she was sitting in the car in the passenger seat shot through the window blood all in the car she was taken the ambulance came and she was taken the hospital but she died at the hospital wherever Blake was taken in for

these things aren't adding up in a big way they do the gun residue on his hands tests in

“conclusive they end up which is super brilliant idea and like you know for 2000's pretty advanced”

there was a dumpster that the car is parked right next to and instead of going through the dumpster there they just take the entire dumpster back to like the forensics lab or whatever and go through every piece of garbage piece by piece that's where to find yeah to find anything and they end up finding this it's a nine millimetre it's a very rare world war two German officers gun that's a p38 nine millimetre pistol no idea but when they find it it's covered in motor oil

so they can't get anything or prints off of it or even do any ballistics on it it's just completely ruined um they think intentionally yeah I wonder if that was a fucking plot line in an episode of Baretta they should have fucking looked at it man that's a fucking genius idea

“can it is double jeopardy still a thing uh bring him back bring him on back that is such a good”

idea I I wonder if anybody looked up all the episodes of Baretta and just been like this person did this this person this was the plan sure okay the next day um he he he lawyers up immediately of course and the next day is when the lawyer starts releasing the the phone call tapes of

Bonnie starts talking trashing her like he had a whole basically kind of like a media thing ready

but it's nothing to do with it too well it's it's what it is is like they were trying to build the case that that she had enemies all across the nation that she had she had conned men all over the place and there were lots of people that that were her enemy not just Robert Blake so as bad and contentious and horrible and loveless and nightmarish as this marriage was that she had just entered

“into she still he wasn't perhaps wasn't the only suspect that she didn't even look down”

right right okay um uh she and they find out that they start like when they start listening to these phone calls they start finding these old men all around the country that they they thought she was his that they thought she was their wife no they um they thought they were married they but she was married to lots of people she got married a lot and she would take out life insurance policies on them and she also had them change their will to include her and that happened that was a couple

of them now this also this was in rich and equated but uh this also was all the information that the lawyers just like anybody to listen to they they'll tell that story um one person theorized that she had been married over 25 times but the provable amount she was married nine times for sure oh my god yeah um okay so uh so at some point like in the in this process Robert Blake fires that of initial lawyer and he hires Thomas Mezzaro you've seen him on tons of

true crime things he has strange like a little Dutch boy hair but gray okay it makes very little sense and he's the guy that defended Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson so you've seen him on the okay yeah um and and so he hires that guy then he hires media consultants to start the story spin and they get him on Barbara Walters so from jail in his orange jumpsuit with his hair now turned white he isn't dying his hair black anymore like he had up until that time that that was

like a big thing right and they say he did it for sympathy or whatever but from jail she's like did you kill your wife and he's like oh of course I didn't he's like as if he's irritated with Barbara over over doing it a little for even now if there's a yeah he's there's a touch of

Lily gilding so we can't tell if that's just how he is he's a child actor he's never had

a normal life yeah like you just don't know um he ends up eventually he ends up going for you on a million dollars bail a million dollars rich rich acquitted rich and bailed so about their theme song rich rich rich rich rich rich and a clin-in okay so then the trial starts on December 20th 2004 a good old fucking venture uh court I mean sorry a nice court house that's how it all ties back in love it um now that I'm to get it I know the pre-trial was

stuntmen who come testify that Robert Blake solicited them to kill his wife months before the actual murder one of them they can prove he talked to on the phone the morning of the murder Robert but in cross examination he gets this mesero ends up um designing from the case whatever that's called leaving it quitting quitting I guess quitting so what I was looking for you're welcome

“he leaves he gets a like it's a third lawyer and always a bad sign when you have to keep”

fucking getting a look at Ted Bundy for example it's not good and you're not an agreeable individual they hate you yeah they hate or they can't even like their lawyers and they can't even fucking deal with it they can't deal I don't have to be around you that much and they're just like what the fuck is wrong yeah just do what I tell you and everything will be fine no no no no no I'm

a rock and roll actor I'm smart yeah um okay so the new uh lawyer is basically just like whoa I'm

just gonna eviscerate any of these witnesses who even because they're so little evidence that they have to like so the two stuntmen that come and say oh yeah he asked us to kill his wife one of them they pull up a report that he had recently been hospitalized for cocaine psychosis oh no

“what's that it's just like you do so much cocaine you fucking lose your mind okay”

I mean I'd say nights worth maybe two nights worth all right interesting it's like you're just you started and you don't stop oh my god and then you just fucking go deserve it okay so that comes out on one guy so then he just like his all of his credibility is done and they basically do the same thing to the second guy they're just like oh you're both earboat these drug addicts you're both these you know whoever you'd say anything for money you'd say anything sure um so

basically once they get rid of those two people there's no real evidence that they that's that's usable on court so the jury deliberates for twelve days a march six twelve days two thousand five Robert Blake has found knock guilty of murder and knock guilty of one of the two counts of solicitation of right or not guilty not even like not guilty yeah sorry going not guilty no that's fine um the the other count of solicitation of the of the guy the cocaine psychosis guy

that was dropped when it was revealed that the jury was deadlocked eleven to one in favor of acquittal so they were gonna go for anyway yeah and they were just basically like forget that one and he's just going free because that one off the way forward yeah they're just like oh you're rich you're acquitted the Los Angeles this is from a competing at in the Los Angeles district attorney Steven Kooley called Blake quote immiscible human being and the jurors are quote incredibly stupid

to fall for the defenses claims there's one woman in this special rich and acquitted

“where she goes of course I believe that mr Blake would left his gun inside a restaurant”

haven't we all left things inside restaurants at one time or another it's just like lady it's a fucking gun oh my god it's not your lipstick um your fucking retainer that you put in the cloth napkin uh cost your parents three dollars they were so pissed and he's cafe in Irvine so basically the the public consensus was that he hired someone to kill his wife and it's just unprovable right but a lot of there were lots of character witnesses that were like no he's the

best and he would never do that um and of course there was no evidence so okay go on uh on the night

of his acquittal civil fans celebrated at Patelos um and Karen Kilgarif was one of them and I was up there singing opera just like this on November 18th 2005 it's not what yes it is that was verity um everything's straight out your nose in opera this is the barber of civil but if you're singing about opera it's opera yeah you don't have to sing opera that's right this is a musical about singing opera there's no actual opera and I'm out here and I'm wearing a black

like a lyria please um guys on November 18th 2005 Robert Blake was found liable in a

California civil court for her wrongful death civil court will always fucking come at you they'll come

back and they'll be like hey we see things a little bit different we've got to talk about the fucking OJ Simpson no sorry but next time go on okay um so sorry based no no that's time

unpaid legal fees as well as state and federal taxes um he said that he might return to acting because he has such financial problems now like we're good bro yeah we're like we got we're got it covered Beretta we're gonna hire the the parrot instead um in 2010 state of California filed a

tax lien against Blake for a million an a hundred thousand dollars that's one million one

hundred ten thousand dollars in unpaid back taxes it hurts uh now this is a very famous interview he was on he went on July 16th 2012 he went on pure smorgon and he's wearing a sleeveless cowboy shirt and a cow black cowboy shirt and then a cowboy hat no no don't you and he is got so crazy you have to look it up on YouTube it's an experience to have and he just starts attacking Pierce Morgan for asking him any questions at all and Pierce Morgan's like yeah but this is what we came

“before is like the interview and he snaps and it's super fucking crazy you have to watch it it's”

it's a it's pretty legendary um he told the people that were writing his autobiography that he hoped for one last great film roll but the but um he was in last highway the uh that's a damage movie in 1997 and that two date is his last acting role whoa um in a March 2016 this is this is one of the saddest endings not saddest but like one of the most like oh endings of any of the murders that I've done in 2016 March 2016 he told a reporter that he had a private nurse

and that he was suffering from incontinence and that my friend is the is this sad ending um of the murder of Bonnie Lee B. Oh my god and the rich acquitted experience of actor Robert Blake that's

“right now he's 85 he's still alive he's still alive I think he remarried for a third time”

um married him again of course it's the fucking this is a town full of people who want their own billboard so I don't know how anything 85 but fucking uh Steven Hawking is what was like 73 so look such bullshit I wish I could explain God's work I wish I could too it's a mystery this is just how he does it um next time we have to talk about the OJ if I did it that they finally oh thank you that was amazing that was so you're welcome that was so I don't want to call it fun

but it was a wild ride you know he's always reminded me of is the dude the dad from the staircase

like just creepy in that way yes whatever there's definitely an energy about him that you're but you can't tell actors are so creepy that it's like it's the yeah it's like who or is this really who or is there another real you are you acting or yeah you never know how to not be acting right and you just think feelings are weird mess to put on so you can manipulate people right like instead of actually having a real time experience it's like here's how feelings look like

and sound like oh Italy I love this place my gun uh I boot and don't say everybody pizza for one type of shit okay so ringtone immediately Steven for that I know fucking ringtone um but you're talking about so there was the OJ Simpson it like an if I did it special right it got it got filmed in like 2006 and there was like a fucking public outcry and I was like don't put it out

but so they finally did you watch a watch it and we'll talk about it next week okay great it's

fucked up um he did it yeah and he admits to it and this fucking show whoa it's fucked up okay so two women who were one of us they were murdering us they were lovely women and uh they were murdered this week yeah this is one of the most awful things we've been contacted and had a bunch

“of people tell us about this but Steven just so you guys know and I think sometimes people aren't”

aware of this like Steven is so good about he's on those message boards with you guys and he knows what everyone's doing he reads all those emails so like he lets us know especially when something this horrible happens and uh so we found out that it um it was on Tuesday one was one day one was Tuesday we found out this morning yeah that that two different murdering us in Seattle

to the my favorite murder uh Facebook page there's more information we actually don't know a lot

“of information ourselves but we just wanted to acknowledge them and I were so heartbroken over it”

and not just because you know they're listening to the podcast obviously but because it's just really heartbreaking and we we feel like they're friends of ours and it just feels really it feels like we're this club and we've lost two members and it feels horrible and in such a and such a terrible way like just we're thinking about you guys because they were your friends and you know this is this is your guys community that you're building and so you're all connected and the idea that

something like that would happen to you and your community is just heartbreaking so we're thinking about you and and we're so sorry and we're so sorry to the families and you know hopefully they'll be quick uh like for the for the one that that is right now they don't know as much information and

that hopefully that that case will be so quickly and the other one is just an incredible tragedy yeah

I mean they both are but yeah there's just so much loss and we're so sorry yeah okay we're back here in any updates just a couple of course Quentin Tarantino's novelization of the film once upon a time in Hollywood that movie was dedicated to Robert Blake and in the movie Brad Pitt's character is accused of murdering his wife which is kind of interesting Robert Blake did dive heart disease on March 9th 2023 he was 89 years old and Rose Lennar Blake

is in her late 20s and lives a quiet life now all right let's head back in for good things of the week uh okay so my positive thing this week and I just want to give this shout out to this this movie that I can put on in the background and then some I put it on at night when we get home from going out and we just want to watch something and it's just you could start at any point it just makes me so happy it's called Los Angeles plays itself oh do you see it no it's so good

it's a documentary about Los Angeles in the movies and it shows all the old school movies and all the places and things in Los Angeles in the background like rebel that a car is all these places and it's just this really lovely lovely thing to put on as a nice distraction and you can just watch it and enjoy yourself I would love to see that's so good that's really funny after all the shit we've been saying that's like the perfect thing to say like no one but it actually

is really pretty. Los Angeles playing itself yeah I think apparatus on there there I mean there's

“I think he was in New York we'll never mind well that's what they show that too it's like”

they're said this is New York but here's Los Angeles downtown I think the orfms in there as well oh that's right show downtown LA and when it's pretending to be or when they're you know to live and die in LA and what parts of LA it is and it's narrated by the sky is like the most soothing lovely monotone voice oh such a good fucking it's such a good it's such a good it's just like a good

living creature that I really like amazing yeah I love it I love to live and die in LA is a good

move yeah oh mine's also kind of on the same it was making me laugh there were people they were giving us suggestions for what this segment should be sold and it was made you know people have some hilarious suggestions um but we should think of an actual name for it yeah um because people were trying to do puns of course which god god people love puns um but I don't think we have yet unless you can think of one while I say this one okay I just last night

I watched my um we all got to write two episodes on baskets this season and my second one was on last night my god and it may be laugh now look I mean it part of the reason it makes me laugh is because Zack and Martha and Louis they riff so much so we get credit for stuff that we did not write and it's awesome I mean like watching Zack riff and knowing that the things like he just write he just writes the best joke so I remember when I can't remember what the actual joke is

supposed to be but Christine baskets says to chip she's like chip it's not a competition and he goes yes it is mother everything is and it made me laugh so hard not was totally Zack's joke but the there were things in it that were um so fun to to make up and I remember when I was making him

“up thinking I think this is going to work like having that feeling and it but it's so hard to”

believe in that when you're just making something up and writing it on a page and you know of course

and the visionary of that show and the one that makes it work it's his doing but he was like no no no this is exactly how it should be and this ending scene where they're all in this Halloween store having a fight as a family is just like I was laughing at my own writing which usually anything I watch of my own gives me great pain it gives me lots of like retroactive shame and regret and I should have done this better and I shaved on this and I just purely enjoyed

myself I love that it was really fun and I don't know those guys are just we get it's just the coolest thing to be a part of so that was exciting that's awesome yeah I know we'll call it bragging corner how's that how about the positive place positive positive vibes positive vibes

“something about party vibes party vibes yep my favorite party vibes yeah hashtag I think party vibes”

what do you think this gives me party vibes yeah I mean I'm going to be sarcastic every time I say it if it's party vibes well because it's stupid right like I mean it is a joke no no no no I mean I like party vibes no we'll keep let's keep workshopping that you know what let's put a pin in it and let's fucking workshop it let's do party vibes is best of right now there's all these people they're like I tweeted something better on you yeah you did you're right you're no you're absolutely

right about your own ideas yeah don't ever listen to anybody else's outside influence don't bother party vibes is what it is until we think of the better idea okay and we'll get there that's the one to beat yeah okay we're back so this episode was originally and I know what I love is that it's such a weird word and I used it twice and then you're just like why are you saying to love but I like that it's the word galore galore like it's galore galore it's so good it's so bad

but if we were naming it today it was maybe naming it something else maybe we would call it the furthest darkest space of course that's good don't embarrass me oh the altar of doubt I mean I still think about that all the time alter of doubt that's right also the British Toby

because Toby Jones is always relevant on this show and in our lives and then of course

higher the parrot instead just wisdom from this show truly look the benefit of us just talking

“without thinking is that you know that's how a lot of good podcasting is made and done right you don't”

realize the shit you say until you get the titles right back to you at the end of the episode you're like I said that what how are we doing this for this long it makes no sense but it's very fun right and in the meantime let's go back to 2018 to say goodbye from there gosh thanks for listening we we love this community and we love being part of it and we're so fucking grateful yeah we really are for you guys listening and for what's happened to our lie we don't talk about it because

like we said we're fucking terrified that it's gonna all fall apart the minute we know it and we say it at live shows we don't really say it on recorded episodes that's true how

insanely incredible I I don't I want to say my life has become because of this podcast it's true

“in a way that I think I fell in through a wormhole when I was a kid and ended up here because”

there's just no way that this is real it's so true it's so funny to say that because I was a today was my therapy today so we're which is when I get especially like raw and kind of like that am I saying yeah but I did have a moment where I told my therapist it really does feel like everything has come together it's like it's that feeling like at the end of a prayer for Owen Meaning we're all the sudden he understands why he was doing that trick shot with his friend the

whole time because then they're in the war together whatever it had that feeling of like the stuff that we you and I've been doing lately where I'm like oh I got it I've been trained for this

I kind of know what I'm doing here and it finally makes sense like I don't know it's think

what we're saying is thank you thank you guys for listening thanks for being a part of it it's we're having the best time we're glad you guys are having the best time fucking hooray we're so grateful and uh and stay sexy don't get murdered bye bye Elvis what cookie yeah you want you want a cookie go boy want cookie you got it you got it I don't think it's just a stage mom