Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 97: The Hague

>> This is exactly right. [MUSIC] >> I'm Michelle McFee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, on Mormon polygamist, and an Armenian businessman.

>> Multi-million dollar house for our Eastern Lamborghini's private jets a billion dollar

fraud. >> But how long can this alliance last?

“>> Tell me what you know, is somebody coming after me?”

>> Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Hart Radio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. >> I'm Nancy Glass, host of the burden of guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

>> I was a monster. >> Listen to burden of guilt season two on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. >> Before, next year, Nancy Salzman wanted to help people. >> Being able to help somebody, it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life.

>> She trained in something called neuro-linguistic programming. >> People laughed our training. >> Then everything changed. >> Yeah, and they called it a cult.

“>> How does a method design to improve lives and up in a cult?”

>> Unknife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool.

Unknife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon. >> Listen to mind games on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. >> Hello, and welcome to rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is a show where we recap our early episodes with new case info and lots of old feelings. >> Today we're rewinding to episode 97, which we named The Hey.

>> I think this is my favorite title of all time. It's so epic. >> We're The Hey, love it. >> The Hey came out on November 30th, 2017. >> Okay, let's listen to the intro of episode 97.

[MUSIC] >> Welcome, welcome. >> To my favorite murder. >> To my, what am I just repeating what you say? >> It's fun, it's like a call and response.

>> Yeah, it's like this is a real thing. >> I mean, I was making Nora, my niece, Nora, she's 10, dude cheers with me. >> Oh my God, I love, I love babies who cheer her, there's nothing better. We have video, she used to do it when she was like four years old, but now she doesn't care now she's like into sports and stuff, but I was making her in my dad's living room while

he watched football and ignored us. I made her stand up and do cheers from my school and it was making me laugh so.

“>> Oh my God, we had a good, we had a nice Thanksgiving, how was yours?”

>> It was great, we went with some friends too, because my mom and I aren't speaking, which is great. So I was able to just go to a fucking old school, stake house with men and our friends. >> Oh yeah, and have a nice time where I didn't have anxiety tax and go to the bathroom and need to breathe and take Xanax and drink a lot, I mean, I still drink a lot.

>> Well, that's, but it was your choice. >> Right. >> You didn't feel like you were trying to escape. >> No, I was feeling like I was trying to be like part of it. >> Yes, that's good, how is yours?

>> It was great, I think I may have told you this, but we basically revolted on my dad and because normally we drive down into the area, we go to Italy, city or we go to Pacifica or

some, it's somewhere in the peninsula or whatever, we always go to our families and they

all of them are in San Francisco or something. And this year my sister was like, I'm so tired, I'm so, I can barely move and I was like, we don't have to go like, and Jo, our family isn't going to be like, how dare you, they're not, they're not like that. >> Yeah, my mom is right, I mean, it can be pressure, my dad is.

So we had to like, well, since when did you get a shit about Thanksgiving, there's no religion attached to it. It's just fucking feeding the shit out of yourself, but it's like, it's family. >> It's a family time and yeah, my sister's a lot, I'm saying we, but she's the one that did all the putting the foot down, but then we went to Adrian's with her family and

it was super fun. >> She'll, and fun, I love when sports are on, it's loud, I love when fucking food is everywhere, is there a big free? I hope so. >> Sure was.

>> No, yeah, there were some mosa's because Adrian's mother-in-law is from Sri Lanka. I'm like, I fucking love that and I hung out with her a lot, push back, she's one of my

She's the one that when Nora, when Nora was five, she asked Nora what she wanted to be, once you grew up, Nora said I want to be a cheerleader and push for said don't be a cheerleader,

“be a doctor, and does that impression and says it all the time?”

>> No. >> A lot of bad ass women. >> I love you, her neck of the list don't be a cheerleader. >> Well, I'm looking forward to, I'll be in Vegas for a way to train, we're going to Vegas for Christmas.

>> Nice. >> I'm excited about it and, and fuck, and fuck it, the rest of the month, fuck it. You get holiday should be a holiday, yeah, they really should. >> Yeah, we want to, Vincent, I are talking about how we can show up at the family of Hanukkah party, like ridiculously, so like one thing is that we get a hammer limo for just

the two of us and have it wait outside the whole night, and then I walk in wearing that

amazing dress that has yours in my face.

>> All over my god, is that from again, like who made it? >> No, but it's like someone made it and it's a website where we got it and a couple girls have worn it to the meat. >> There is nothing more disorienting and amazing than somebody walking up with it because it's not like pictures or whatever.

>> No. >> It's like once a further where someone has made material of our faces and the knives and cats and like all the things are like nice, just the cat. It's so bananas, so I want to wear that to the Hanukkah party. >> Good idea.

>> You're just going to burn all the bridges at one time with one fell swoop. >> Yep, one, 12 swoop, a swell swoop, a swell swoop. >> Well, I was going to tell you, at Thanksgiving, because now everybody knows my once

“secret passion, that's now a very public passion of loving true crime.”

There was someone that had a Charles Manson story and he died, we don't care, but somebody at our Thanksgiving dinner, when he was just by chance met Charles Manson like walking through a jail, knew someone that was in a holding cell, he was like a teenager

and they had been messing around and whatever.

And he will like shook Charles Manson's hand and it was when the cops had arrested him for like stealing car parts, but they didn't know that the Tate Love Yoncomerters had just happened. >> So they wanted to shake his hand, because the guy he was talking to in the cell was like, hey, why are you here?

Why are you here? It was one of those things. And then they're like laughing, it was both of them, or just like, it's this dumb misdemeanor, like no big deal. And then but the guy in the cell goes, oh, this is Charlie and then the guy at our dinner

like shook his hand. It was like, oh, hey, how's it going? That is fucking bananas and I bet not a lot of people have a story like that. It was awesome. >> And also, the guy that told the story is a really good storyteller.

>> Yeah. >> Real casual. Very peddleman. >> Yeah.

>> And it was just like, it's out here in there.

Exactly. I was dealing with all this. >> But also very like, he's very much himself, so it was like, you could see him doing it. >> Yeah.

>> He was, I think, at the time. >> And it wasn't like a story. He told all the time. He was like, bragging about it. It was like, oh, yeah.

In fact, I'm, I wonder if I'm allowed to even be doing this.

“>> No, that I think maybe it has name out.”

And then we'll move on. Life is name in relation out. >> Stephen cut that. >> Don't cut it. >> Just even bleep that?

>> Bleep it. >> That's a new one. >> Stephen bleep that. >> Yes. >> I want to talk to you about, well, so they caused us a confrontation.

>> Yeah. >> I want to talk to you about your problem. >> I've been wanting to talk to you. >> I'm macaroni and cheese. >> No.

Please order the macaroni and cheese balls that they do in it. >> Oh, like a deep fried macaroni cheese. Do you know what I ate the night? Oh, God, was it the night of Thanksgiving? Oh my God.

>> Well, after we went to the fucking this crazy steak house, ate this crazy meal, we went and drank the rest of the night. You know, you like eat four o'clock Thanksgiving? >> Yes. >> But it's time we get home at like 11 or whatever.

Vince and I are hungry again and drunk. >> Yes. >> And so we made a stofor's french bread pizza. >> Hell, yes. >> And fucking frozen mac and cheese.

>> Yeah. >> The night of Thanksgiving. >> Stovers? >> No, I might have been like traitors just like that. >> Yeah.

>> But still, yeah. >> Some nice oven mac and cheese. >> Yeah, I'm not fucking here to talk about stofors. I'm here to just talk about their french bread pizza, which is my fucking favorite thing ever.

>> Yes. >> That's an American class that is totally unsung. People like to talk about, I don't know, apple pie and Chevrolet. Or like, let's dance a pizza, fucking a pizza that someone was like, look old bread, we're going to put tomato sauce and cheese on it.

>> And like weird little triangles, the saltiest best pepperoni ever had.

Don't come out, we don't have the fucking cheese. I want those fucking tiny triangles of pepperoni. It's immediately bring me back to like, spending the night at someone else's house

and where I'm like, my parents would never let us eat this for a dinner.

>> Definitely, you're at a parent's house where they're like, "Coke out of a can at the table and the stofors french bread pizza." >> What the fuck? >> Oh my God, that's so true. >> It's so exciting, it's like a total celebration.

>> Yeah. >> Or it also is like, you're eight, you've been left home alone. You've been given directions, turn the stofon, then turn the stofon off. >> Yeah.

>> Don't bring down the house. We'll be back at 11. >> Oh my, yeah, 11. >> I need a party harder than that.

“Well, that's what they'd say, but you'd be asleep by the time they came back into.”

>> Right, exactly. >> Like, we came home at 11, and we were totally sober. Okay, so then speaking of serial killers, which Manson wasn't, he was just a fucking bastard.

>> He was like a drug dealer.

>> Peace of shit. >> The floor, the Tampa, some of the heights serial killer, they think they caught him. >> Oh, right, yes, yeah. >> Are they 100%, but it's him, it's pretty fucking certain.

>> I'm 100%, that is, I am too, so that must be right. >> Because if you tell me something once on social media, it is locked law in my head forever. >> Karen doesn't want to hear more than 140 fucking characters about it. >> Actually, 10 is fine.

>> Hands fine, just be like they caught him. >> Great. >> They don't even have to say who it is, she'll believe. >> No, but I'm not interested in his business. That's not in my business, but his name is.

>> Not interested. >> Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how that unfolds. If he worked enough fucking Popeyes at any point, the fact that he did work in a McDonald's, but excuse me, hope.

“Hold on though, did he work in McDonald's or was he arrested at McDonald's?”

>> Both. >> He had worked at McDonald's before, and he was arrested at McDonald's. But we don't know about Popeyes, that's just from our email. So we had an email, a couple of them says back where these girls were like, we got an Uber car, an Uber car, and the driver was like,

I think I drove the serial killer, he had worked at Popeyes. >> Right. >> So the fact that he had worked at one fast food place, makes me think that he had maybe had a job in another fast food place. At some point in his life.

>> Also, if he really was the serial killer, he could have worked McDonald's, but that was his cover. >> Yeah.

>> Oh, a lie, so I worked at Popeyes, and I'll never catch me.

Or maybe, because if the McDonald's, if I remember correctly, that he wasn't McDonald's employee anymore, he had another job, and maybe it was like, currently a fucking Popeye's employee. >> That's right, because if he has the experience of dropping those fries for three minutes, pulling him back out,

salting him, and I would encourage you to salt them thoroughly, because what's more heartbreaking than fresh McDonald's french fries that are all ready, and you're like, oh, I should be doing this. I'm doing it, and then you stick when you're mouth, and there's no salt or very little salt.

>> I don't know if that's ever happened to me at McDonald's. >> It hasn't? >> No. >> It's happened to me a couple of times. >> I have good french fry luck, fuck.

>> I have the worst because also I'm like, shouldn't be doing this or shouldn't be doing it. >> Well, no, I have to fucking double down and put the sauce on myself. >> Yeah. >> Or you get like older ones just like they've been around. >> No.

>> No, listen, this is the episode called, let's talk about the junk food. This is the episode called, sure you want to hear about serial killers, but we want to talk about how french fries break down. >> And we just realized that we're hungry, and maybe that's the problem. I've had a bowl of fucking raisin brand for dinner tonight.

>> Oh, that's good, and a half a vodka soda. >> You've got your fiber. >> Mommy is full. >> You've got your fruit. Did you put a little lime in there?

>> Mm-hm. >> Good fucking citrus. No, scurvy for you, gal. Okay, here's a fun part.

“Speaking of Tampa, we put the Florida episode up last Orlando episode up last week, right?”

>> Yes, yes, because we were like, we're Thanksgiving, goodbye. >> Yeah. >> We're out of town. And I would just like to say, I am fresh off the hive. The highway five driving for fucking six hours to get back down here straight to the

report straight to Georgia's house. >> Love it. >> Thank you. >> No, no. >> No, no.

>> I'm not. >> More of an excuse for my performance. >> Okay, so in the episode of Orlando, I did, I lean worn out, yes you did. >> And at one point we mentioned, Lando Lake's Florida, which point we kind of both admitted that we lost her shit because it's like, wait, that's really a place, that was just the

better. We thought it was just a fucking, and when it's in a condiment, what is it? It's a dairy product. >> Dairy product. Both lost her shit.

>> Oh, we got stars truck about better. >> Yeah, two things. One, it turns out, I just want to go ahead and say it turns out, it's actually made in Minnesota. >> Right. >> But there's more than one Lando Lake.

>> Right. But there is a Lando Lake's. Okay, the other thing is, I was doing my fucking normal at sea late night scrolling.

like this.

“And I was like, well, I'm going to buy that for Karen immediately.”

And give it to you a month for a Christmas because I can't fucking wait that long.

>> Yeah. >> No chill. Whatever. Are you ready for that? >> It's a good fun.

I'm actually pulling it behind the couch cushions right now, so if it was a stick of butter from Etsy. >> Oh, this butter smells vintage. Okay, ready? >> Yes.

>> Sure, John, it's a fucking vintage like serving tray with the whole Lando Lake's theme. She even only took her photo of her and posted on Karen's face. >> My God. >> Don't include my face. >> Lisa, you're hair, you're hair looks like you're hair up.

>> I'm going to go like that. >> Hair up. I've just invented the new selfie for ladies over 45. >> Yeah. >> Who've been driving for eight fucking hours.

There it is. >> Well, put it on Instagram. The sandwich promise. We always say we will.

>> But isn't that amazing?

>> Okay, can I just tell you, first of all, this is gorgeous. It's a gorgeous tray, it's like very solid. It doesn't look, I mean, it's clearly vintage, but it's perfect quality. >> Yeah. >> And then--

>> Why am I telling you how much? How cheap it is. >> And $1. No, but it's a beautiful picture. >> Yeah.

>> Like, I want to hang this on the wall like a picture. >> I know. In the top of it, every time we go to an antique store, one more on the road, you pick these up. I do?

Every time you pick up a decorative tray, a decadersoned tray, oh, I could fit it. No, I have room. >> And then, like, you wear, argue with yourself. >> And with it. >> And with it.

>> Yeah. >> This is perfect.

And then he's like, where?

What for? And then you put it back down. But this is your favorite. >> I guess that's my thing. >> Not me or favorite thing.

>> Because my bottle is so funny. >> I fucking love it. >> All right, I'm taking it back. >> Oh, no, I'm also taking it back. Also, thank you.

>> Yeah. >> And I love that this is, like, the girl, the, it's not supposed to be poked on us herself, isn't it? >> I don't know, it's just a representative young, yeah, it's like a native American. >> She's holding her own package of land-aways, water, so it's the same image on it.

>> Yes, it's the picture within the picture.

“>> Oh my God, I'm freaking out, it's the fucking, what's it called?”

Was that great movie? Not the Matrix. >> Unception. >> Unception. >> Unception.

>> Thank you, Steven. Unception. We're inceptioning land-a-lake style. I would love, we should do a heavy drug. >> Okay.

>> And then just go on. >> No, no, no. >> No, no, no, no. >> Okay. >> And then stare until we're in the picture.

This is so good. Thank you so much. >> Yeah, I love it. >> I'm genuinely excited. I can continue to fucking hold the floor.

>> Please, can I mention, so we're in the pod loft again. >> Hold that floor, are you, what's that called when they do that in the Republican Senate when they, oh, like when you pee out in front of everybody, what's the called? >> Bad mash.

>> Little buster. >> Yes. >> Little buster. >> Yes, I'm full of buster and great, because we're back in the pod loft after like months, because over Thanksgiving break, my one thing of

Thanksgiving events we have to do is we have to clean up the pod loft. >> It's great. >> And so in one of the boxes, we found this painting by this girl, okay, this painting, I want to talk about it, I have to redo this thing. So it's a painting of, it's like a, like a charcoal drawing of Elvis, my cat.

It's a little wonky and weird, but at the same time it's kind of like, it's an artistic and gorgeous. >> And I was like, did that get sent in the mail? >> Yeah. And it, I had like, it was a big package, I just thrown it upstairs, like I don't

know how long ago, a while ago. >> Yes. >> And I, and Vince was like, what's this? I don't know, we opened it, I was like, oh shit. So then, Vince, like, read me the card and it says to all of us, blah, blah, blah.

Thank you for the Minneapolis show. She was there with her two favorite murdering males, Hammond, and Ashley, I'll excited blah, blah, blah. And then it says, I wanted to give you this red water color of Elvis. I have no artistic talent at all.

My husband, on the other hand, got drunk as fuck in our backyard when I woke up to this masterpiece. >> No. >> What are you serious? >> Yeah, there was no question to add to be yours.

“I tried to get them to do one of Frank and George, but I think Elvis was his cross-eyed”

muse. Thanks again, SSDGM, carry. >> That's amazing. >> That's amazing. >> It's really great.

>> It has a kind of a Monet, it could be Monet, it could be Mani, Modellini, you know, that one with the lady with the blue eyes that has the crazy long face. >> Look, we'll fucking post this one as well. >> Shit, look at this posting shit. >> Oh, no, this is good.

Also, you know what I don't think I ever think?

Members of the woman who gave me that amazing painting in, it may have also been in Minneapolis.

“There's a lady, and I believe her name is Clarissa.”

I've had the thank you note on my desk, and I hung that picture. It's hanging in my room. >> It's the amazing one, right? >> It's the one that's, it's basically her, it's a, it's green rolling hills, and then a blue sky.

>> Oh, my God. >> It's my grassy. I have to tell you how jealous I was when I saw that and she liked it because it's so beautiful. >> It's so beautiful and it's, the frame is beautiful. >> Yeah.

>> Like, it's a very lovely thing, and she basically, the note was like, basically, it sounds like you're getting tired of murder, so I painted this for you so you can just look at something else. >> It's so nice.

>> It's so lovely, and I don't think I ever think to her, and I hope to fucking God or

name is Clarissa, but I'm almost positive is, because I have the thank you note on my desk. But anyway, thank you, Clarissa, Astrox, I'll fix it next week if your name is not for it. >> But also, I love it so much, I mean, I told her, we had a whole conversation face to face,

but yeah, it was gorgeous. >> It was really cool. >> We love our, hey, places, art is our fucking thing, there's podcast loft is not big enough for everything. We're going to have to buy a fucking bigger house.

>> It's so cool. You guys, you wouldn't believe how many needle point, uh-huh, get stuck yourself up on these walls. >> Well, those two bins are full of art that I need to go, we need to go through and hang.

So it's gonna, I'm gonna take a photo once we're done with that. And then on the other side of the wall, there's just wrestling memorabilia from the bins, the perfect comedy for boys and girls. >> Let's go, um, what else do you have? >> Um, oh, I don't know if we're, we're not probably going to do it on this episode.

“I can't remember if we said we're going to do it separately, but my sweet Adriana is our”

book club. >> We fucked that up because she's a fucking craze. >> There's no way anyone, I'm sure people, I'm, there's definitely people who could have finished that book in like a day or two, I'm certainly not one of those people. >> Well, I got my late, I'm not gonna fucking name the girl on Etsy who sent it out very

fucking late. >> Very fucking slowly. >> I read a couple pages and I was like, well, this is kind of boring, right? And then I accidentally spoiled it and read what happens and I'm like, oh, I don't want to read this.

>> Well, yeah, I forgot about the fact that it is an incredibly problematic and triggering book for many people and it is from a time in the 80s where everybody pretended things like that didn't happen in real life, so you could read a book about it and oh my God, like shocked and exactly. >> Can we quickly switch to flowers in the attic?

>> No, because it's the exact same thing. There's no difference. >> Well, they're, they're choosing to bone, there's like no, they've been locked in an attic for years. >> Yes.

>> They have no choice. >> That's true. >> But, but yes, you're right, it's not, it's not sexual fucking assault. There's been screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming.

>> Well, spoiler alert, oh shit, but no, that comes out in the first beginning.

“>> But here's the thing, I think it would be fun still to read a dumb book and talk about”

it because I was, I have gone through so many emotions of trying to read that book, the phrase, this, the first and best of all, Drina, right, that's creepy. >> If you hold that phrase out of the book, the book would only be 112 pages long. It is repeated so many times and that's fucking cousin of hers who were obviously, it's not her cousin.

We could think, like, I mean, shit that you know now, and you didn't know in your 12. I've just really, really been enjoying the photos, people are posting of their copy because that no one has a new copy, it's the best, and people are taking photos with their cats, and they're this, and then the like, comments of like, I can't, you know, the like, how the fuck did I read this at 11 years old?

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> This is why I'm this way. >> Yes. >> It's been really amusing.

>> It's hilarious. Also, there is an aspect to it that I think is almost introductory. If you want to be a writer and your nine or 11 or whatever, hopefully not nine, hopefully or 12, you're in a weird junior high area, and you find that book on your mom's shell. >> Oh my God.

>> And you start reading that book. You are like, this is dramatic writing at its finest. >> It's one of those things towards like, when you found the map of where Dommer and the bodies got Gacy, Gacy, you say to yourself, oh, I've been lied to by adults, and there is this life that I didn't understand, and then you can't stop obsessing about it.

>> Yes. >> That's like what that those books are for 12-year-old girl girls. >> Because up until you read a VC Andres book, you are sold the bill of goods that boys, you just figure out the right thing to say or wait to be your pretty-ness, and love is love. >> And sex is so.

>> Love you and the end. >> Yeah. >> This is like, there's also intense, horrible violence on one.

Like, I'm barely getting the romance part, now we're going to do something. >> It's also like sad thing, I'm like, you Mary, the mother Mary is the student, and she's unhappy. And it's like, oh, you can do that.

>> Okay, and then I'll never get married, I'm telling 36.

>> It seems as a kid reading it, you're like, these are all solvable problems. >> Yeah. >> It's like, why don't you just, just break up? >> Yeah. >> Talk about it.

>> Same year kid, break up. >> Sarah, instead of a trainer, you're second one. >> Also, I will say this, I will admit this, and some people did this, and they said they were cheating. I don't think it's cheating though, because that book, here's the fun of it.

I had it in my sister's house, so every night we'd all go to bed. Did you read it to Nora? >> No. >> Every night we'd go to bed night, read Nora, to sleep, how incredible would that be? >> Literally, literally, literally, Nora just started the Laura Ingles Wilder series.

“That's how nowhere near this she is, but I would go home and then I go, oh, yeah, I've”

got down booked or read, and then I would get kind of excited, but I got me, I got a hard back copy with a big plastic cover that I was using as the bookmark that every night I would fall asleep while I was reading it, because it's the same, roughly the same 11 sentences over and over again for 200 pages, so it would literally drop out of my hand, and I would be asleep with the light on, and I would wake up at 3 in the morning like what the

fuck. >> I love it. >> And I would lose my place every night, so I have reread the first 50 pages, like it's like one step forward, two steps back every night. >> So, that's a problem.

>> There's a lot in there, but on the what drive down, I bought the audio book. So I could like fill it in a little bit, and I have to say the audio book is incredibly enjoyable. The woman reading it is doing a great job of being all these crazy people.

>> I never read books, but this time I was like, I am obligated to buy a vintage copy

and read this. >> Yes. That didn't sound right. >> I never had time to read books. >> Right.

>> I don't know how to read. I hate books. I hate words. Okay, audio book, everyone. I mean, sorry, and you know what, you have that in your fucking bookcase now and everyone's

going to admire it in your bookcase, doesn't matter. >> Well, and also, I think there's probably people who love it and are sitting there going, are you guys fucking crazy? This book is awesome?

“There's just so many ways to take this bookcase.”

>> This is why you have a book club. I want to argue with those people right now, but also, I had that thing to go tell you. This is why you drink wine and sit in a circle. >> Hey. >> But because it shouldn't be a one direction, this should be, wait, let's pause and let them

say what they think about the book. >> Nope, I'm sorry. I mean, you're going to be right there? >> Totally wrong. >> I apologize, but I know I'm interrupting you.

Does anyone mean anything? >> Is anyone okay? >> Crackers? >> Crackers? >> Crackers?

>> Oh my God, thank you so much for making that appetizer. >> Yes, filling your name here. >> Blake, Blake, to breathe. >> Every love is a Blake to breathe. >> I love Blake, Levi, to breathe.

She makes the best kind. >> I got it. She needs to get on that. You're welcome. I want to say really quickly, we have one last set of shows.

Sorry, I'm in its sidebar this. >> Okay. >> I just want to say, I'm going to keep on reading my sweetheart Drina. >> I'm sorry, yeah. >> And I'm going to keep on talking about my sweetheart Drina.

>> And they're with you. >> Okay, great. >> Awesome. >> And also listening. >> Listen to new podcasts.

>> My sweet, my favorite sweet, Adrienne. >> The best in first, Adrienne. >> My favorite V.C. Andres. >> The best in sweet, my first V.C. Andres favorite with Lando Lakes. >> You can just pick your hands in the tray.

The tray was underneath me and I decided I need to put the tray on my nose. >> I was doing with it, it's pretty great. It's so good. >> Oh, you are just posing like Lando Lakes Native American woman. >> Now it's three.

>> Now it's holding it and now I'm holding it. >> Well, if you look really closely in the package, there's probably a picture of her. >> There is. >> It's on this tray, there's four Native American women holding this thing. >> Okay.

>> Bye. >> Good. >> Think that's it. >> Great, right? >> Yeah.

>> That was two weeks' worth of. >> Yeah. >> We caught everyone up. >> Yeah. >> Who goes first this week based on our new algorithm of who should go first this week?

>> In my opinion. >> Yeah. >> Yours is going to be better. >> Clearly. >> 'Cause I slept today.

>> Yeah. >> You slept today. You didn't just accept hours of driving and you didn't write it quickly.

“>> Mine is more of a, yeah, I think you should go first.”

Listen to you in the past three hours that you've been here is peach gummies from the gas station. >> From the gas station. >> I don't know how you're surviving after that. I had at least some raisin nice raisin brand. >> You had a nice full of raisin brand.

>> I had a hamburger on the highway. >> What kind? >> Burger King. >> Okay.

>> Now, here's the thing that's a little worrisome to me.

I mean, we own the Russia's invading this country. >> Oh, yeah. >> So that's worrisome overall. >> Yes. >> Like, we're not trying to belittle any of the problems.

>> One little thing in Karen's mind is, is that we, this is a red don,

>> Okay. >> But on top of that, driving down the five, I have every exit memorized because I've been doing it for over 20 years. >> Yeah.

“>> So it's like, I know, I'm like, do I want, do I feel like a foster freeze situation?”

>> Or am I just going to go somewhere? >> I'm just going to go somewhere. >> Coming up. >> Yes. Do I need to go clean and light and not get depressed or do I not give a fuck?

And is this my time to shine? >> Yeah. >> Whatever. >> Exit after exit, everything is closed abandoned. >> The foster freeze is abandoned.

>> No. >> Yeah. >> That's creepy. >> There's hotels that are abandoned. >> I am.

>> It's taking that drive in a long time. >> It's fucking, and also a shit ton of the trees, those almond farmers, a lot of those. >> They're abandoned. >> They're the trees.

>> They had to stop because the water got cut because of the drought. So there's entire groves of trees that are dead and pushed over. And then the foster freeze has fucking graffiti on it. And of days, it's not so. >> Fucking end of days, guys.

>> Guys, we can't, all the monies at the top it needs to come back down. >> It's literally not so. >> It's time for talking about almond free. >> We gotta rise up. >> All right.

Go ahead. >> And we are back. >> That really was the Hague. >> I mean, the amount of topics that were included, the diversity of subjects and people.

>> All over the place, at 97 is when we're hit in our stride, I think in the plug. We're really digging in deep to Thanksgiving. >> Thanksgiving and Thuc and Lando Lakes. >> Oh, this was the My Sweet Adriana era,

or we just did the first time we didn't follow through with a book club

or the second time I can't remember. >> This was the original, I think. >> Okay. >> This was the first. >> Yeah.

>> Where we suddenly realized what does it mean of a book club on a weekly podcast? >> Well, there's two people. I think that's the right thing to say. >> A club.

>> A multiple people with multiple opinions. And we didn't want anyone else's opinion. Or we couldn't get it. >> I feel guilty like having such a strong opinion, but it really was kind of like, oh,

“that's why you don't like reread these books.”

>> Yes. >> It was hard to get through. >> You know, it was hard to land a lake, because I was immediately like, wait, that's a problem at, that's problematic, because they didn't change their packaging

until 2020 to remove the Native American better made. >> Yeah. >> So like, we're sitting here in 2017, we're like not even knowing that we're talking about this problematic thing. And now I have all this vintage merch with Lando Lakes on it.

>> I mean, Burnet and Prove you care. Burnet all. >> All right.

>> But here's the thing, that's the kind of logo kind of thing

that you do as a white person take for granted, because you're like, oh, this is the picture of this butter. Where it's like, it's not necessary. It's not, there's nothing about it that is selling you butter. >> It's just discriminatory and it's, yeah.

>> Exploration, yeah, all the things. >> A little bit sexist. >> I went to a high school that their like, mascot was, we were the Woodbridge Warriors. And don't you fucking know it?

That was, there were some heavy Native American cultural appropriation and horrible stuff going on. I will say that I never had school spirit, so I don't think that I'm responsible for that. >> Yes, it's right.

>> Going there, so. >> Prove you're upon exactly. >> It's all 2020 vision now, but we sure did grow up knee deep in it. It's pretty crazy.

But that's the kind of point of this show is then we learn that. We did that becomes the conversation. And you're like, oh yeah, it makes perfect sense, yeah. >> That's right. >> Totally.

>> I don't want a little tray that I put five pennies and some keys on. To do anything other than serve that purpose. >> Be adorable and make everyone feel good and inclusive. >> Yes. >> And no one should get hurt when we're just trying to,

people are just selling butter. It's like just sell the butter. >> Just sell the butter, just make a vintage tray, just fucking. >> Well, they did though.

I mean, they took an action, which is actually very, you know, in this day and age,

“it's important when you acknowledge the people that actually do something.”

>> That's actually really true, yeah. >> It's like, all I'm thinking of as we're talking about this is, are we going to kick off a new one? >> Totally. >> Totally.

>> Totally. >> I have the tone of voice where people are like, she's being sarcastic. It's like, I'm not being sarcastic.

I'm mad that this is always a thing,

but I'm taking it. I'm too much of a, and a literal Karen to get to take that stance, so I have to change the tone of like, apologies and awareness as opposed to you.

I'll fuck that shit. >> Passion and sarcasm. How do you tell the difference these days? >> It used to be really hip one in 2003. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. Now let's get into George a story about David Meyerhoffer. [MUSIC] Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman had a pulse Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. >> For Ari's Lamborghini's right at Jets, meeting the president of Turkey.

>> Amishal McFey, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracy's I've ever come across. >> When Jacob met Levant,

this went to a billion dollar fraud.

But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? >> The largest tax investigation in American history.

“>> You need to tell me what you know is somebody coming after me.”

>> Jacob told Levant, "You're ruining my life." >> Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC]

>> Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories

I'll be exploring the 14th season of family secrets. >> Just then we felt the plain turn in the air. >> So much so that the bags are under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we'd now have headfirst into the complex power of secrecy.

How it shapes our identities and relationships,

and how it ultimately can reveal to us our trueest selves.

>> My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything. And me pretending like everything was fine. >> He kind of showed me out of the way and said move,

and he went help the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off and that was the last time I saw him. >> Listen to season 14 of family secrets. On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

>> May is mental health awareness month, and your 20s, they can feel like a lot. On the psychology of your 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety, the overthinking, the heartbreak, the identity crisis,

all of it that comes with being in your 20s. Because if you've ever thought, is anybody else feeling this way, they definitely are. >> I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at to get to what I was good at.

Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously and we get lost in things that we later on

“decide more even important to us to begin when there was”

a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to like the out of that phase out of my skin. And I just like really regret not living in the present form. Each week we break down the science behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it.

Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out. They're about understanding yourself just a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcasts.

>> So the other night, I was following a sleep to my audiobook

that I always follow sleep to.

It's either some space talking story or space jump. >> Yes. >> Let's begin with you. >> The soundtrack to space jump. >> Yes.

>> Or whoever fights monsters. >> Yes. >> That book we love the best. >> Following a sleep couldn't fall asleep listening and I was like, wait, what's this?

>> About this case. >> Had you never heard of it before? >> I think I heard about it.

“Like some people in the Facebook group had written about it”

here and there. So maybe you heard about it. And also mine hunter, even though the show, there's a couple cases that are similar. It's not one of them.

>> Okay. >> It was like intrigued. >> Okay. >> Let's do this. >> Okay.

>> So June of 1973, the Yager family of Farmington, Michigan. They go camping at a campground in Montana's Waterhead State Park. It's near the small town of Manhattan, Montana. It's their first stop on a month-long trip.

They're going like, we're going to fucking, this is our first like family camping trip. And we're going to drive and all the shit, all the fun stuff that is fun when you're a kid. So that night, the parents took their five children

into the kids tent. >> Oh, no. >> But just those words alone. >> But three or tenies. Three of the kids are teenagers,

and then two are grade schoolers. So they're like, great. Together, they're safe. They should be safe, right? >> Yeah.

>> They fucking should be. >> Yeah. >> And also it's the 70s, where not only are they together in safe, but some people would be like,

"Yeah, you can leave them alone for four months." >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. >> They're a pack of cigarettes, a carton, maybe. >> You're all good.

>> Yeah. So that morning aren't for him.

the Heidi Yager wakes up and notices that her little sister, seven-year-old Susie, is not in the tent me longer. And not only that,

“there's a fucking slash through the side of the tent.”

>> No. >> And there's a hook hand hanging on the top of the foot. This is like, this is urban myth shit. >> Uh-huh. >> Okay.

She fucking flips out, wakes her parents up. No one in the tent. None of her siblings had heard a freaking thing. They had just were fast asleep. Authorities are called.

Go ahead.

>> I just wanted to say the first thing,

I just somebody slowly slashing that tent open. Quietly. >> A little rip of the fucking fibers. >> Quietly and slowly. >> Not, it wasn't a quick fast one.

>> So much scarier than a fast one. >> I didn't think of that. >> And now I want to cry. >> Okay. >> And turn around.

There's a fucking wall mural of a fucking forest behind you. Like where they were camping. >> Okay. Oh my god. >> Okay.

“Authorities are called, like, immediately.”

They find footsteps leading away from the tent. And so the FBI is called because, so at the time the FBI would only get involved in kidnapping cases if it was a possibility that they were taking across

state lines, which is fucking bananas.

So they're called because maybe that was going to be a thing. I don't know. And then ensues the biggest search at the time in Montana history. They fucking drug the river bottom. They had helicopter circling.

They did all this crazy ship. But Susie could not be found. One, like I think a couple days later, one random call, like ransom call came in. But saying we want this, I want this.

We want this much money. We'll give her back. We'll call back with details. But no call was ever, no call came back. Just the one call.

>> Just the, we'll call you about the ransom. Nothing came back. So almost a year later, the case is fucking stalled. And special agent Pete Dunbar. He is an agent in the, in the FBI's Montana office.

He's attending a training session led by Howard Tieten and Patrick Malaney. These two dudes are developing the FBI's newly formed behavioral science unit. >> Oh, hell yeah. >> Hi. >> That's right.

>> Exactly. >> Hello. >> Hello, mine Hunter. >> Hi. You guys are the ones that are thinking that maybe all these guys have something in common.

>> All right. >> Maybe if we study and interview thousands of murders and murderers, we'll get something. >> Yeah. >> So before the units even was created,

there's not a lot, not a lot known about criminal profiling. And their goal was to bring a public awareness to the psychology of murder and behavioral analysis. This agent Dunbar dude is like, please take a look at this case. We need your help.

>> Which is like so big of him. It gets back then. There were so few. I feel like that was not a thing where you like asked for help from other. >> No, that's a huge deal.

“>> That's why in that show that those parts were so good.”

>> Yeah. >> Because they'd be like, they would come to talk about one thing. There'd be the guy that would hang behind you. >> Yeah. >> Like, can I just go up?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They all did. >> Yeah. >> It was almost like they had to make sure no one knew.

>> They were not circulating by asking for help. >> Right. >> Right. >> Okay. So this, although Teton and Molini have been studying the stuff for a long fucking time,

this turns into the first real case where they get to use their behavioral analysis.

>> Oh. >> So this is the first case where this is used in real life. IRL as they would say later. >> LOL. >> LOL.

>> IRL FBI, OMG. Crazy. Okay. So the three of them together, the three agents, they profile the case based on their studies and come to the conclusion that whoever it takes in Suzy, so this is our profile.

They come upon the family during a habitual night prowl and impulsively took her by cutting for the time. So it was not planned but he was doing his fucking rounds of maybe. He'd spot an opportunity and acted, he appeared to be, they thought he was a young white male, a loner. Lived not far from the campsite, so a local. They thought he had military experience because the fact that he fucking broke into this tent and pulled a person out without anyone hearing it.

>> And it's so stealth. >> It's creepy. >> Yeah. >> And he had killed before and possibly since. >> Ooh.

>> So it was like a year after kidnapping. And then they were like, listen, Suzy's probably dead too. They were like, this is part of it. And that they said that he also probably collected trophies from the victim. So before these two had been called in, an informant had called and suggested that his neighbor, David, and Mir Hoffer,

well, what should be looked at, it was his neighbor, he's fucking creepy, like one of those like this guys,

>> Yeah.

“>> So David, Mir Hoffer is a 23 year old Vietnam vet who agent Dunbar actually knew personally.”

He said, quote, David was well groomed.

Curtis and exceptionally intelligent. He was the gentlest of persons too. >> No. >> Murderer, right? >> Yeah, I mean, it's not a good sign.

>> And he was innocent moving on to the real suspect. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I'm not doing that. >> You know that that's not how it works on law and order. They, so the local FBI law enforcement had questioned David, and he was polite, well, dressed, really helpful.

So they didn't think it was him. He had even taken a polygraph test and taken truth-sart serum and had fucking passed both. Flying fucking colors. >> Okay. >> Do we believe him?

>> No. >> Okay, no. >> Oh. >> You do. >> Well, I was just thinking.

>> Okay, maybe. >> He did it. >> I just want one. >> He's the killer. I just want to let everyone know.

>> Yeah, I know.

“>> The one thing I was one of my theories is going to be at that time.”

>> Yeah. >> Vietnam vet were shot upon this country and had bad PTSD. >> He had PTSD, but also were judged by others. >> Not by law enforcement. >> I think they respected Vietnam vet.

>> But I guess I'm just saying the person that would call in and be like, oh, this guy. >> Yeah. >> Baby killer. It's that shit that it was like, right. They really attacked people for that.

And so I was thinking maybe that it was like, well, he's violent because he was made. >> Sure. >> She made it go into the army. >> Sure, but that doesn't mean he did it. >> Okay, okay.

>> That's a real relief. >> I'm not like spoiling. It's like I'm only talking about him. >> No, I love it. >> I love it.

>> So Melania and Teton had seen, but they, okay. So now they, these two profiles come in and they use surfactant tactics.

“And they're like, show us all the suspects you had.”

They read his chart and they're like, I'm sorry. This guy, it doesn't fucking matter. They thought that he was a psychopath and he would have no problem passing a polygraph test,

which they had never heard of before this.

>> Yes, because he was a fucking, he was able to dissociate himself from the person who had been, who had killed someone. >> Yes. >> So he was like, it's not fucking me. And so I'm not lying because I'm not that person.

>> Right. >> And also the thing I love about sociopaths, I mean psychopaths, they don't get nervous. >> Right. >> They don't get nervous. >> I don't have stress reactions to that.

>> When I watched the old YouTube, like, it was one of those like old, true crime shows where they had, like, there was like an FBI had guy who was the narrator. >> Yeah. >> So there was no charisma whatsoever. >> Because he was the real guy.

>> Because he was the real guy. >> He was like, I'm fucking like, charming, you know. >> There's the arena type. >> Yeah. >> Like a journalist.

>> Sure. >> They said, like, you know, they believed polygraph tests. Polygraph tests implicitly. So this was like brand new as well. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> They thought it was the killer for sure. These two dudes, Millennium Tinten, but everyone else is like, how fucking know you're wrong. Even done by their like, ah, dude, it's not him. That was a quote, direct quote.

>> But then, okay, then they're able to convince the Yagers the fucking mother and father of Suzy. Now they're back in Michigan. They said, okay, we think this is the kind of killer that will contact you again. Because they want to be part of the investigation. It's the kind of thing where they want to be friends with cops.

>> Yeah. >> Which fucking David, Meyerhoffer was chatty with cops. >> Just like our boy at campus. >> Exactly. >> They think that the kind of killer wants to insert themselves in the investigation

and stay part of the victims lives and continue to inflict paint. >> So gross. >> I know. >> Okay. Let's take a quote, let's put a tape recorder with your phone and let's set up a tap.

And they're like, hell yeah. >> All right. Meanwhile, Suzy's mother, Maryetta, she's a devout Catholic. And initially, she says that she was quote ravaged with hatred and desire for revenge. And that also, she could have killed the man quote with my bare hands and a smile on my face.

>> Yeah. >> She's like, girl. >> Yeah. >> And then she was like, as a devout Catholic though, she's like, I, she says she understood that her hatred was going to fucking kill her.

And she says, I quote, called for, I was called to forgive my enemies not to kill them. So I made the commitment to work toward an attitude of forgiveness. So through that year, she was able to come to terms and start praying for whoever took her daughter. Even if it was like, maybe he's alive. So I'm praying for, you know, good weather that day.

Or I'm praying, you know, she started kind of opening her heart to him, which is beyond incredible.

>> Exactly one year to the fucking day, and Karen to the fucking minute. >> No. >> Three, thirty in the morning. >> A call comes in. >> Oh.

>> Uh-huh. >> To the minute. >> Oh. >> Okay. So the kidnapper calls the acres.

Okay.

“And so Mary had to answer the phone, and initially the college has to fuck with her.”

And it's like, your daughter's still alive.

We've been traveling with a world, and you're not, you know, never see her again.

I was bullshit. But Mary had to, was unfuck with a bow. And she fucking, instead of being intimidated, she spoke to him with compassion and patience. And she told him she prayed for him every day, and that she forgave him. And he fucking burst into tears.

And so she said, "I'm not going to answer it to fucking weeping." >> On the phone? >> Uh-huh. >> We sh*t. >> The columns are being a fucking hour long, and they're, and they're talking.

>> Are you fucking coming? >> I am not fucking coming you. >> And then what is confesses? >> Not yet. >> Okay.

>> This is nuts though. >> No. >> Okay. So they had an FBI voice analyst, says the caller is definitely his circumstantial evidence, and it's not sufficient to obtain a probable cause.

>> Search warrant? >> Yeah. >> I've David's house. And then, so this is the fucking, this is crazy to me. And I, like, it makes me sad.

“So the agent, Malini, says that the caller, quote, "could be woman dominated."”

I mean, he'd give me dominated by a female somehow. So he says to Mary at a year, "Do us a favor. Come back to Montana where your fucking seven-year-old daughter was fucking kidnapped, and have a, have a face-to-face conversation." >> Whoa.

>> With David Merehofer. She jumped on a fucking plane, and I'm like, "I hope they fucking played. Payed for the plane ticket." >> Can you imagine? >> No way.

>> I know, but how fucking crazy would that be? >> I don't know. >> I know. But stuff. She should have gone on, like, fucking air force one.

>> Yeah. >> For our class. >> That'd be a little crazy, but yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I'd be like, "A way of taxpayers money chartered plane."

>> Right, just first class.

>> Just something. >> Give her a meal on the way. >> Oh my God. >> That's woman. >> I know.

>> So she meets David Merehofer at his lawyer's office. Begs him to tell her about Susan. He fucking clamps up. He won't talk. He's unmoved.

He denies it. They're in there for an hour, and finally it's like this isn't working. So she leads. She goes back home to Michigan. And then David calls her again.

This time, he says something else. Like, oh, hey, he says my name is Mr. Travis. I'm the one who did it. Trying to fucking trick her. I'm the one who did it.

It's not this other guy. And then Merehofer goes, what's up? What's up, David? And he fucking loses a shit. She's just like, hi, David.

>> Wow. >> She fucking knows that. >> She knows. >> And he loses a shit.

So by this time, though, the FBI is finally able to trace the call

and they arrest him. Trace the call to him. And now they have enough evidence for a search warrant. And his home, police discover everything's fine. Everything's fine.

Open the freezer. Human remains. There's packages that look like,

“I guess they look like I'm Delhi packages, you know?”

>> Yeah, like the pink paper. And labeled with the initials of who the pieces belonged to. Not only do they belong to Susie. One of the packages contained a hand, like an entire hand with nails.

Identified as a woman named Sandra Smolligan. Sandra was a 19 year old woman who had disappeared in 1974, so like after Susie. Her remains had been found incinerated in the woods near an abandoned ranch. And it was known.

He had been questioned that she had refused a second date with David Mirhopper. >> Fuck. >> But after he volunteered. But he, at that time, before all this,

had volunteered to take a polygraph test. And again, fucking passed it. So they were like, it's probably not him. But then they find her fucking hand in the freezer. And I'm like, it's him.

>> Yeah. >> So after the search and his arrest, David Mirhopper confesses to killing both Susie and Sandra, he said that Sandra had, here's the fucking bullshit of the day. He says that Sandra had died of suffocation when he had broken into her apartment.

She's sleeping. He was going to kidnap her and like keep her. He puts duct tape over her face. Goes to pack her bag and realizes that he had actually put her over her nose to ensure it's suffocate from the duct tape.

>> Why bother lying like that? What's, I mean, come on everybody. >> 'Cause then you don't seem like it's such a monster. >> Yeah, to yourself.

>> Right.

>> But he didn't consider it her body, so no one could tell.

You know, that's so crazy. Quick sidebar, weird fact. In 2005, a crew was doing some remodeling work on a garage, the fucking building thing. And they torn to a wall to like,

change out the wall and found a wallet, identification, and a small wire bound notebook that belonged to Sandra. >> Okay. >> 30 fucking years later, which is like, my dream come true. >> My dream come goddamn true.

>> Let's rip all the walls out of this apartment. >> It's a new build, it doesn't matter. >> What's telling you?

“>> Was it on this podcast where we talked about our low key superpowers?”

>> No, we talked about them in person, and it's one of my favorite things in the world. >> Someone else is going to be a peel-in. >> Yes, they were like, hey, nice to meet you. It's like a photo smiling. What's up?

Really quickly, this is my favorite question. What's your fucking low key superpowers? It's like not that big of a deal. >> And what was yours? >> I don't remember, but it was something really stupid.

I just want to eat food. >> What was mine? >> I don't know. >> Apparently looking through walls? >> No, no, no, remember mine was when people can't remember the name of it.

>> I can't remember. >> I can't remember.

>> I'll always be able to do it.

>> What you do anyways? >> I wish I did, but I don't do it fully. I don't do it as much. >> Yeah. >> Comprehensively.

But I want to change it right now. >> Okay. >> So to whoever asks us that question, I would like to officially change it. >> It changes in charge of it.

“>> I want it, and maybe if it's low key, then it can only be a one time thing.”

>> Okay. >> X-ray vision to see either what's buried or what's hidden in walls. >> Can it only be superficial things? >> How about that's the trick of it being low key? >> It's only like the can of beer or that the builder place.

>> It's like not a clue at any time. >> I don't care. >> Okay, that's okay. >> Because when I was growing up, our friends had chicken coops on there. Like, pedulum, there's like just big open fields with old chicken coops.

>> Mm-hm.

>> They've been sitting there since they like late 1800s.

>> Terrifying. I want to look through all of them. >> We would walk through them, and they would just be old equipment hanging and shit everywhere. >> People just kind of left them on the property.

>> Mm-hm. >> Because they used, it's like either their families do. >> Or they thought they were going to come back, chicken farmers. >> Or they bought the property and were like, "I'll just leave it there." >> Yeah.

>> There's like, it's those kind of like barns that are slightly sloping on the one side. >> Yeah. >> The people take pictures of them.

“>> They didn't go in because they're in a collapsed on your stupid heads.”

>> Yeah. >> But we were like, "Oh, well, this is how we fill our days." >> So Katie Newberger, my friend, and the girl who lived down on the corner, her parents raised llamas, and they also had an old house on their property house. >> Oh.

>> And we used to go into it in one time, and some of the walls were in a church. >> No, no. It was just like, there was wallpaper on the walls. And no cut, no, it was like flat, more floors. But there was a hole in one wall.

And I looked in it once and saw something and sort of pulling out bills to the chicken feed store. There were handwritten old bills. >> Oh my God. >> And I was like, "Oh my God, look, look, look." And my friend Katie's like, "Oh yeah, those are in all the walls."

>> This is some straight goony shit. >> I know. >> You know what goony is fucking ruined it. They made me want to do this. >> The goony's raised the bar where it's like,

"I don't just want chicken feed bill store bills." >> Yeah. >> I want a large ship filled with gold, the blue. >> Right. >> Right.

>> Yeah, but I want to start with the fucking attic with all the paintings in it. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Awesome. >> Okay, look.

>> Look at listen. >> I've played a fair band in house. >> Right, fucking now. >> I left this part of them because I knew that this would happen. >> 'Cause it's like my own dream.

>> It's so archery. >> I know it's yours, too. >> If you've ever found something in a wall or more, immediately. >> Please, and no line. >> No line.

>> My favorite writer, Jamel. I did have a friend, a couple of friends who did a, who were remodeling their house on their own. Here in LA, and found just like cool trinkets and stuff. >> Yeah. >> Which is cool.

>> That'd be amazing. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> They did it back to the store. >> Anyways.

>> Here's more horrible things. >> So he tried to kidnap her, blah blah blah. She died and generated her body, and that's for Sandra. Okay. Then David Mirrhofer is like, but wait, there's more. He confesses to the unsolved killing of two local boys.

March 1967, 13-year-old Bernard Polman is playing with a friend in a creek in Manhattan, Montana. So at the time, David Mirrhofer is a high school senior, and Bernard, this kid's older brother, and there was a classmate that David had fought with.

hides behind some bushes, and fucking shoots Bernard through the fucking heart.

>> Oh, he's playing. >> Yeah. >> And then in May, 1968, this is five years before Suzy had been kidnapped and murdered. All right, he had been kidnapped and murdered. This is like 10 miles from where that hadn't happened.

A boy scout named Michael Rainy, he's 12 years old. He was sleeping in his tent at this boy scout retreat, and he, the his tent mate, who was in the fucking tent with him, wakes up to find him. Dad, he's had been struck in the head and stabbed to death while he had been sleeping. >> No.

>> Yeah, it's fucking crazy. David said he had randomly killed the boys, because he was pissed that he had really killed that kid, because he had been pissed that he had been fired from being involved in the boy scout. >> Wow. >> I know.

>> Which is like so problematic in your fucking thinking. >> Okay. >> I mean, obviously. >> Yeah, he's a murderer. >> All right, as for lovely little Suzy eager, David said he had taken her to an abandoned ranch

“and choked her to death after he had kept her, I think, for a little while in a closet like a week.”

>> I know. >> Then he dismembered her and burned her piece, burned her up. But of course, we don't know what happened for sure, because that's just all him. >> Yeah. >> All right.

So David, Mayor Hoffer, who tetan and Molini believed had psychopathy, right? Which is a mix of psychopathy and simple schizophrenia. >> That's what they think he had.

This was the case. This case was the first case solved by a fender profiling.

This was the first fucking case where these two dudes. Nothing guys remind Hunter, but very similar. >> Yeah. >> And there actually is a book called "Mine Hunter." And that's what it's based on.

>> Yeah. >> Whatever. Okay. So this is the first case solved by that. They believe that his motive had been the thrill of killing for sport. So he's just a fucking asshole.

So they didn't, they couldn't interview him further. Because that night when he fucking confessed to everything. And like early morning hours, they walked him back to a cell.

“And he fucking hangs himself with the fucking towel that was in the cell with him.”

>> Yeah. >> Of course he does. >> Yeah. >> But wait, I'm not ending it on that kind of fucking asshole.

>> But did it, did it? So that was September 29th. He's 25 years old.

David Mirrafer hangs himself. Fuck you. Okay. >> What? Fuck you.

>> I'm not as good as Mirrietta. >> No, I will hire. We may all strive to be that way. And in the meantime, fuck you did. >> All right.

>> So back to Mirrietta. In the early 1990s, Mirrietta, Jager co-founds a group called Journey of Hope. Thoughts from violence to healing. >> That's a colon.

>> It's a colon. >> That's a really a colon. >> I also think the word earlier is pronounced psychopathy. >> I knew I was getting it wrong. >> But when I read it, I read Psychopathy too.

>> You're totally right. Psychopathy. But it's like, that's the people who study it. >> Yeah. >> Or the ones who say it that way.

I wasn't going to correct you. >> That's like an old term, right? >> Yes. >> No, I'm glad you're correct to me, because I was psychopathy.

>> Yeah, no. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So Mirrietta, now in her late 70s,

works with family members of murder victims and lectures at university schools, churches, fucking around the entire country, and also went to the hay and shit. >> Well, fuck and argue for certain things.

>> I don't mean, what is the hay? I think it's like the peace center. >> I don't know. I love to reference the hay. I think it's a really funny comedy reference.

And one of my favorite people on Twitter, DVS, who is a rapper in New York. He made a tweet today about being at the hay. And it made me love him so much. It was so funny and random as are.

But as I laughed at it, I was like, I just don't know what this actually means. >> How on earth is that hay? >> I mean, I don't know what this actually means. >> How on earth is that hay?

I mentioned twice in one day for you. >> Right? >> That's crazy.

“>> That's why I mentioned this anecdote.”

>> I think it's like the peace center. >> It's something political for sure. >> It's like where you, it's where you can't be a fucking asshole. It's like the hay is like where everyone looks for peace and justice. >> Jesus Christ.

>> Jesus Christ. >> Not real. >> You're laughing at us and looking at us. >> We're going to see him.

>> I don't know.

I can't find a factual definition of it.

>> It doesn't exist. >> It's a political building where they-- >> Isn't that where they-- >> Oh yeah. It's the International City of--

Oh, it's a city. It's called the International City of Peace and Justice. >> Oh my God, you are wonderful. >> Right. >> Everyone's a suck.

>> Oh my God. >> I'm so sorry. I just sounded like total bullshit into things that was total bullshit. I just most have learned about it somewhere.

“I think my brain is a better fucking fly truck than I thought it was.”

>> You like, that was like, you Wikipedia memorized that, and you didn't even know it. >> Uh-huh. >> Nice one. >> Thank you.

>> Big. >> Shit. I'm going to call my production company The Hague. So good. You think that's copyright?

>> Yeah. >> Or do you think you're 100%. >> I'll say you're opening a production company. Can I get that one? >> Oh, I didn't tell you.

It's more for sports. That's my new thing. >> I love it. >> Love it. >> Okay.

Boop, boop, boop. Okay. So she's in early '70s. She fucking is like telling everyone what. She works for this driver, so they don't end up quote,

giving the offenders another victim themselves. >> Yeah. >> Because the whole thing of like this hate is going to consume you. >> Yeah. >> So she's like, here's how to forgive.

It's not, you know, I'm making this part up, but it's not for them. You're not giving them for them.

“You're thinking of them for yourself because you can't have that.”

>> 100%. >> Yeah. >> That's, it's so true. And like, and I think it's also, everybody's kind of over arching goals.

>> Right. >> Because we all have things we're mad about. We all have bitterness. And we all think, like, it's an effect that other person at all. >> No.

>> Unless you bitch slap them once a day. >> Yeah. >> Like it doesn't even even feel terrible. >> Right. >> And you're angry.

>> I've had a couple of dreams where there was one person. I was very mad at it for a long time. And I had to have dreams about slapping her face. And when I woke up, I was so relieved that I didn't actually do it. Because it feels terrible.

>> Yeah. >> Like making yourself feel terrible in an effort in the name of vengeance. >> Yeah. >> That's such, that's high level recovery. >> Yeah.

>> King Buddhist shit. >> Yeah. >> Don't be mad at yourself if you're not there yet. >> No. >> This is the serious fucking, I don't, I mean, like, that's the hardest.

That's, yeah. >> I feel like it's, I mean, that's, yeah. >> That's now in term goals. >> Yeah. >> Long term goals.

“>> And like, we're talking about someone who's fucking,”

made out with our boyfriend, not someone who's fucking murdered our seven-year-old. >> Yeah. >> So listen, so it's even, baby steps, it's even more. >> Just self-care. >> Look, we're all listening.

>> We're all trying to walk to the head, right? But there's miles to go. We got miles to go. >> You know the, hey, the head is your fucking end game. >> Hexan game.

>> Don't be mad at yourself that you're not at the head. >> No. >> We're still, we're still here in America. We don't even know where the fucking country the head is in. >> What it does?

>> Where is it? >> There's some shit like that. >> I bet it is. >> Somewhere sweet. >> Somewhere the Vegas in the, in the hate place.

>> The Hague is in a big place. >> Uh, Denmark. >> Karen? >> No, Netherlands. >> Sorry.

>> Where go? >> Okay, now I have to ask another embarrassing question. Isn't Denmark in the Netherlands? >> Yes. >> Aren't we going there?

>> No, Amsterdam's the Netherlands. >> Aren't we going there this fucking spring? >> Yeah. >> We're going there with me. >> Yeah, it's the Netherlands.

>> The Netherlands is where Amsterdam is, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay, so I'm not. >> But Denmark, Denmark's its own beautifully independent country. >> Oh my god.

>> Now they're so cut that, cut the first half of this podcast.

>> And the second half. >> A fucking disaster. >> The first and second half. >> Okay. >> Let me finish.

>> Yes. >> Sorry. >> No, no, no, you're fine. Because we're going to get through this. >> Yeah, because I'm going to, because I'm trying to,

and this one's positive, no, we just keep, you know what I'm talking. >> It couldn't be a more positive note and we're like, we're ruining it. >> We're just giddy for some positive news. >> Yes, exactly.

>> Okay. >> Okay, Marietta is also an advocate against the death penalty. She says, quote, "I would not honor the goodness and sweetness "my and beauty of my little girl's life "by killing someone in their name."

And then she says, "She's worth, "She's worthy of a more honorable memorial "than a cold-blooded state sanctioned "killing of a defenseless person, "however deserving of the death of death that person may be."

>> Mm-hmm. >> Which, like, the greater disagree, that that's a beautiful fucking statement. And you can't argue with someone who's talking about the killer of their daughter or anything.

>> No, you're wrong, and here's why. >> No, no, no, there's no arguing that,

because that's a person, that's first person experience.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah, so anybody else, I mean, like, look, everybody, obviously grieves in processes in their own way. But that concept, it's a reframing of looking at it, which is, you really are doing it self-righteously

>> Exactly.

“>> But then it's like, she's making you rethink that,”

which is brilliant and really amazing.

>> Are you ready for fucking, to go to practice what you preached down? >> Yeah. >> Are you ready to fucking visit it and go there and stay there for a holiday?

>> You mean the peace place? >> Yeah. >> You ready to go to the place for peace? >> The practice, what you hate? >> So after David's suicide, Marietta,

reaches out to David Mirhopper, the fucking killer of his daughter, her daughter, reaches out to David Mirhopper's mother. Yes, because she's a victim too. And in the years following his suicide,

the moms together, a company, each other's, to each other's children's graves. >> No. >> And she said, quote, together, we were able to grieve as mothers

who had lost their children. I hoped that it would help her to know that I had forgiven him. I know. >> Holy fucking shit.

I know. Say her name again, Marietta. >> Marietta, Yager. >> Wow. >> Yeah.

I think she read a book too,

“but the group is called Journey of Hope.”

>> Yeah. It's fucked up. It's crazy. >> I can't. Because you've seen that.

I mean, we've all seen it on True Crime shows, where the family of the perpetrator is horrified. And they are in this strange bubble. And they have this shame and humiliation. >> Yeah.

>> What could I have done to prevent this? And they often are the subject of so much hatred. >> Right. >> But probably, maybe we're victimized by the person that perpetrated themselves.

>> Yes. >> God damn. That's high level. High level human work. >> Right there.

>> Marietta Yager. >> Fuck. >> Yep. >> And that's that.

>> Wow, George, that was amazing.

>> Thank you. >> That's what happens when you have a lot of people who are in the same place. >> Yeah.

“>> And you're like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping."”

>> Yeah. >> And you're like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping." >> Yeah. >> And you're like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping." >> Yeah.

>> And you're like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping." >> Yeah. >> And you're like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping." >> Yeah. >> And you're like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping."

>> Yeah. >> And you're like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping." >> Yeah. >> And you're like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping." >> Yeah.

>> He sounds official and standard, but then there's also an interesting nest to his voice. But when I was reading that, because that book, it seems like that book has 95 chapters. Like when I was reading it, it was just in my car.

Every time I would drive around. >> Yeah. >> And it felt like it went on forever. But every time I would be like, "Right this down, this could be out of order."

>> Yeah. >> Because there are so many ones that were obscure, or either hadn't heard of a new little bit about it. >> Yeah. >> Where I was like, "Right this down."

And I just know it. So the reason I found this one is because I was on the last chapter, and it's about Ed Kemper. And it's just this like, even killed the guy, narrator talking about,

he would cut the heads off of it. And I was like, "What are you listening to, Georgia?" >> Yeah. >> So then instead of like putting something else on about, like, fucking space, I put on chapters that,

I was like, "Fuck this chapter." I put it for the chapter. I'll go to a different chapter of the murder book. >> This is the subject. >> Exactly.

>> Again. >> Yeah. >> It's just going to be a different book. >> I won't be at, and even that's not Ed Kemper.

>> It's all I need. >> Also, have people already started up fan groups for the actor, because I realized I said, "Oh, our boy Ed Kemper." But what I mean is the actor who played Ed Kemper

in mind-hunter as well. >> Well, you know we're following him on Instagram now. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah, because someone, we joked about how he would be,

he should be on, what's that pitch-per-vict, pitch-per-vict. And so someone made a fucking amazing graphic with just him photoshopping. They were very badly on purpose.

And it was super hilarious. >> Oh, yeah, that's right. And so someone tagged the dude who plays him. And I was like, "Hey, look, you're on this podcast." And so we're following him now.

I don't know if I can find his name right now. I probably can't. We follow Beyonce, too. >> Oh, nice. >> You gotta be on their somewhere, but it's pretty great.

>> That's so rad. >> Yeah, it's pretty. >> 'Cause he looks like a, he looks like you're, like your big friend from high school that like,

always has shitty weed to hang out with you with and like,

like he just looks cool and fun. And then he looks like men in his life has always tried to pressure him into playing football. But then he talked to them about quantum physics and then he was a little long.

>> Yeah. >> And he like really likes hanging out with girls, but like not sexually assaulting them.

>> I'm like Ed Ghamper.

“And then he like will post a photo on Instagram”

of like, "Here's me as I'm Canberra. You gotta watch this." And it's like, "Oh my God, that's not you." Let's throw. >> Stephen.

>> Cameron Britain. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He's a Canadian. >> He's got a Canadian vibe to me.

>> Yeah, maybe. >> Maybe. >> Cameron, what a snow. [laughter] >> Well, that was great.

And we're back. Do you have any updates? >> There are no case updates, but in January of 2022, journalist and author Ron Franchel,

wrote the book Shadow Man, an elusive psycho killer and the birth of FBI profiling about this case,

and the role that played in the FBI's first criminal profile,

which I think is so interesting. We should all check that out. All right. Let's get into Karen's story about Randall Sado. [MUSIC]

Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on Earth. >> He felt destined for greatness. [MUSIC] >> So when a swaggering Armenian businessman

had a pulse Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. >> For our reason Lamborghini's private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. >> Amishamukfi,

and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracy's eye to ever come across. >> When Jacob met Levant,

this went to a billion dollar fraud.

>> But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? >> The largest tax investigation in American history.

“>> You need to tell me what you know is somebody coming after me.”

>> Jacob told Levant, "You're ruining my life." >> Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the Ayahar radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC]

>> Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring.

The 14th season of Family Secrets. >> Just then we felt the plain turn in the air. >> So much so that the bags are under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. >> Each week, we and I've headfirst into the complex power of secrecy.

How it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us our trueest selves. >> My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything. And me pretending like everything was fine.

>> He kind of showed me out of the way and said move, and he went help the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him. >> Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets. >> On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

>> May is mental health awareness month and your 20s. They can feel like a lot. On the psychology of your 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety that overthinking the heartbreak the identity crisis, all of it that comes with being in your 20s,

because if you've ever thought is anybody else feeling this way, they definitely are. >> I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at, to get to what I was good at. Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously,

“and we get lost in things that we later on decide more even important to us to begin.”

>> When there was a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to like be out of that phase out of my skin, and I just like really regret not living in the present form. >> Each week, we break down the sides behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it.

Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out. They're about understanding yourself just a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I-Hot Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcasts. >> So this, as I've already said several times,

I drove down the 5 today.

>> Honey, I bet this is going to be amazing.

>> No, no, no. This is like the beginning. >> I'm sorry I called you honey. >> I thought you were telling about how bad it was going to be. >> I'm telling you is, but I've already made that clear.

>> I wanted to do a story. Something about the 5. >> Love it. >> I've already done the I-5 killer. >> Yeah.

>> The guy that used to be in the football team. That is, I mean. >> Then there was also an I-5 Strangler. But he was one of those ones that I didn't, it just was depressing.

>> Yeah, and it was a lot of women's bodies lost in creek beds for years and years. >> Yeah. >> And we say, we say these, it was just depressing. We mean it also didn't have interesting facts.

We don't mean like, there was fucking depressing.

>> This one was once again a man who for 20 to 30 years

“just got away with killing whoever the fuck woman he wanted to come by.”

There's no myriad at the end of that fucking story. That's exactly where it is. That's exactly what it is. Except for, that's not true. In the I-5 Strangler, there's a detective who would go

and hike up in the mountains because the one woman that this guy said he killed, but they couldn't find her body. He would just go hike to see if he could find something

and he finally fucking found a quarter-sized bone in a creek

that had been a dry creek bed when he put his her body there. But was now a flowing creek. >> What the fuck? >> He found it and they, they DNA tested it and it was her. >> What in the fucking fuck?

>> I bet you, I had all that on a document. >> Somewhere. >> Somewhere I could have done these things. >> I'm sorry. >> It was pretty amazing and that was one of those things

where there are detectives out there who do that job

“because they want, they not only want to help people,”

but they, they want to solve people's, they want to end the sadness as much as they can. >> There's no closure we know that, but you need, but not knowing it's worse. >> Exactly.

>> And he would hike, he would just hike around the area. I mean, it's amazing. >> Anyway. >> But apparently that didn't cut it for me. >> Okay.

>> Apparently my standards are even higher than that. >> I know. >> Not an amazing story.

>> No, here's what it is.

I hadn't heard this, but this is not only is it not an old story. This is almost a borderline breaking story. >> Wait, what? >> So that when I heard it, I was like, hold on. I'd never heard anything about this.

So on Wednesday, November 15th. >> Wait. >> Like two weeks ago? >> Two weeks ago? >> A cab driver.

In Stockton, California. He picks up a fair, and he notices that the man that's in his car fits the description of the APB that the San Joaquin County Sheriff's department had just put out for his six foot tall man with a heavy build black hair and black eyes.

>> Oh, no. >> It was very dangerous. And in the APB said, do not approach him under any circumstances. >> Or pick him up in your cab. >> Right.

“>> So this cab driver calls 911 and says, I think I just had”

this guy in my cab and at 10 30 am, police arrest 59 year old Randall Sato at a gas station on Highway 99. And it turns out Randall was an escapee of a Hawaiian mental hospital where he had lived, he has lived for the past 40 years. >> Oh my God.

>> He is described by the doctors and the people that committed him there as violent, violent, manipulative psychopath and a murderer.

So here's what he did to get into that mental hospital.

In 1977, a woman named Sandra Yamashiro was walking to her car out of a mall called the Alamuana Center. Her next to her car is a car parked in a man sitting in that car. He shoots her in the face with a pillet gun in her car. And he goes over to ask if she's okay.

She's been shot in the face. >> Oh my God. >> And then he repeatedly stabs her. >> He goes over to like, see if she's okay. And then he says the phrase like, are you okay?

But he just went over there. >> Yeah. >> And then basically stabbed her multiple times. Left her, left her in her car. And then got back into his car where her's girlfriend was sitting in the car

and drove away. >> Was she okay going? >> I don't know anything about the girlfriend because this is so fresh that basically all the, it's one of those things where there's the AP story that came out. There was a story that was in time and AP.

And every other article in every other newspaper was basically the same article different slightly different word change. >> Yeah. >> What we call the Karen Kilgare of Treatment. >> [LAUGH]

>> So he's tried for this murder and he is acquitted by a reason of insanity. >> Uh-huh. >> So he's girlfriend had enough because you don't stab a person that many times then get into a car and you don't bledle a real. >> She's sitting in the car next to the car where the murder's taking place.

>> That she's hanging out and having a great time. >> I don't, she's like murder. >> Unless she has 70's fucking headphones on and an eye mask. >> Like she's right away. >> Yeah.

>> She doesn't know exactly what the fuck's going. >> Good point. >> She's right there. >> Creepy. >> Well, either way, he gets tried.

He's acquitted by a reason of insanity.

“But then he is committed to the Hawaii State Psychiatric Hospital.”

>> Okay, good. >> Where he's lived for the past 40 years. >> Fuck. >> Yeah.

>> So, here's what happened.

On Sunday, November 12th and 9am. >> Randall. >> Scrolls. >> Walks off the ground. >> No.

>> He's been able to do that, right? >> Right. >> He should it. >> And he walks to a place called Kanaoke Park, which is how I'm thinking that they pronounce it.

So he gets to this park. He calls the cab. The dispatcher, there was a whole article about this dispatcher. It's a female cab driver. It comes in picks up.

>> Oh, no. >> There's a video camera inside the cab. And it shows him. And he now has a backpack that he didn't have. There couldn't have had access to psychiatric hospital.

And he, in the video, he's looking through the backpack, like he's never seen it before. So he's like rifling through it to see what's in it. >> Oh my God. >> No, no, no.

He pays the cab driver and cash. And he gets dropped off at the airport.

“Where he has chartered already chartered a plane.”

Cost him 1500 bucks. >> What? >> If you charter a plane, that's essentially a private plane. And you don't have to check here. >> That's right.

>> Oh, at the far. >> If you pay a guy, 1500 bucks, and you're like, can you fly me to Maui? They're like, okay, they don't make you do anything extra. >> Not enough money to not have that checked.

>> Right. >> But it is Hawaii where it's all islands. And that's kind of a major mode of transportation. >> Right, right, right, right. >> As I learn, go with them.

>> Hard ticket to Hawaii.

Please watch it if you've never seen it.

>> I have it. >> Okay, so he gets, he gets to Maui. Then he, with the sake ID that was in there, you know, postulating was in the backpack. So basically somebody put that backpack together for you.

>> Who is, I bet it was his cousin. >> He's right. >> I'm just going to say cousin. Fucking cousins, man. They're always, fuck.

They're always fucking helping you, too. >> There's, they're always aiding, and they're always abedding. >> Always abedding. >> So he gets on to a Hawaiian air flight to San Jose. >> No, no, no, no.

Imagine the difference between you live in Hawaii, and you fuck, you're like, I got to get to San Jose. >> Imagine who sat next to him, right? >> On the plane. >> I want to know what he drank.

I want to know what sandwich he ordered, and they were out of that sandwich. So he had to get a fucking wrap. >> I'll tell you what. >> He has a backpack full of cash, seemingly. >> Uh-huh.

>> Because he bought it. >> They don't take cash on planes anymore. >> Good point. >> I'm sorry. >> He got zero drinks on that plane.

>> Yeah. >> He got zero sandwiches on them. >> Right. >> Unless it was a jet blue, where you go to, awesome little refrigerator.

And I have never surgeon I took a flight,

and there is a jet blue set up. Now, where instead of them bringing around a weird wicker basket of like, do you want to press and like not pick it now? >> Pick it.

>> Don't like more than one. Don't put this on me. I always say no out of like pride. >> Yeah. >> I always pick wrong and I get bummed about it.

>> I'm always like, I'm above pretzels and cookies. >> Yeah. >> Actually hate pretzels, but I would have loved those fucking jam chips or whatever the fuck. >> I want to, I don't want a basket shoved at me.

>> I don't like gets the offering plate in church. I want to sit with my decision to be like, what do I want? >> I'm going to grab each and then eat a little of each. Like a fucking, I want to dig through it.

Like a large rock cone. >> I want to see what I want. >> I want to see what I want. >> All of them. >> I want to touch each bag,

even though they're the same brand and the same item. >> Yeah. >> Well, he didn't get that opportunity. >> He didn't get shit unless it was a jet blue? >> Right.

>> No, it wasn't. It was a liner. >> Okay. >> We knew that. >> We knew that.

We knew that going in. >> Let's talk about a midplane refrigerator and snack cupboard. That was purely based on, do you have the guts to walk up here and grab food? And then it was just all the bravest people on the planet.

>> That makes me sad. >> Why?

“>> Because you have to be brave to go up and get a snack.”

>> Well, I mean, that's just societal pressure. Where it's like, you walk up there, but everyone's going to watch you. Like, who for me? >> I'm going to point at everyone next time.

>> Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, I'm going to go through the plane. >> Here's what I did. I waited and waited and waited. Then I waited inside due to the bathroom, because the bathroom was right across from this area.

>> Yeah. >> Then as I came out of the bathroom, I pretended to like, never seen the cover before. >> Oh. >> And then I went, well, I guess I will have a bath.

>> I want my mom up. >> I mean, this makes me think you have shame issues around eating and drinking. >> Do you think? Because I suck in.

This makes you think it not me telling you over and over that I've used to feel. >> Oh, I don't listen. >> When you say this thing.

>> That, that, that. >> Great.

What do you want to order?

>> Well, I guess it's probably why when we do order, I'm like, let's get to this and this and this. Because I'm going to say yes instead of, yes, saying I don't want that. >> No, I'm not ordering it.

>> I also, my favorite new thing is, yes, let's get four things. >> Okay. >> Sorry, this is just a sidebar. >> I know.

>> Sorry, guys. >> I like this asshole. >> Okay, okay, okay. >> Okay, what? >> We went, there was a new restaurant that opened

and peddling while it was home for Thanksgiving. Adrienne and I made plans for lunch.

“Then my dad, who was like, hey, want to go to lunch?”

And I was like, Adrienne, can we collapse these plans together? And then I'm under a lot of pressure. And she's like, totally, let's party with Jim. >> Is he the coolest? I want to hear how them so bad.

>> My dad? >> Yeah. >> He's the greatest man. Is he coming to our LA show? I think we could get him to.

Let's put him up at like a really nice hotel. >> Like, let's boil Jim. I want Benson to talk about wrestling. >> He would-- >> He didn't. >> Should go on their own separate vacation.

>> Okay. >> They would be best friends immediately. Do you know that my dad got mad? We went to this place. And they didn't have Budweiser and he wanted to leave.

>> Oh, Vince is like that too. >> Yeah. >> It was that thing. >> There he goes. >> I go dad, they have log.

They have all loggerine to sauntop because loggerine is in peddling. >> That's so fucking-- >> Oh, it's-- >> That's bullshit. >> Yeah, I don't want that.

>> Who doesn't have fucking Budweiser? >> Seriously?

“>> No, it gets piss of them like certain things.”

>> Lunch started with a slight anger. >> That's-- >> Oh, it's for-- >> Oh, you're dad and I are going to get along. >> Yeah, drinking?

>> Sign me the fuck up. >> Honey, when you walk into-- >> You guys have to come up. >> Okay. >> When you walk in to Jim's house,

the first thing he says to you--

>> Hey, you want a cold one? >> Can he make me-- >> I know that he used to drink Manhattan's. >> Oh, your mom? >> Yeah.

>> Can he make me Manhattan? >> He would love to make you Manhattan. It would be his favorite thing. And he would also laugh like, "You're going to have a minute." He would think it was the most refreshing thing in the world.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, they party. He parties. They-- well, it kind of all my family. I was thinking of-- because at his birthday party,

we went up-- we all went out to dinner and Carol Paine, who was sitting next to me, his friend, his friend Woody. He's also a farmer. That's--

Manhattan's are like the first thing they ordered a restaurant. >> Oh. >> Yeah, I love it. They're good times-- good time people. >> So from Maui, he goes to San Jose.

>> Uh-huh. >> He arrives in California, five, thirty Hawaii in time. Two hours later, the hospital alerts the authorities that they're missing, which is eight hours after he walked.

>> He's fucking awesome. >> Yeah, different fucking part of a planet. >> And they're like, "Oh, hey. Let me just do it." >> Quick, bed check.

We didn't evening, bed check. And the sad part is, or whatever part, they're now under all and all under investigation. Like, over 60 employees are on unpaid leave. Until they figure out how this happens.

>> I just hope they figured out quickly, so that they're not punishing a bunch of random people. >> Indeed. >> 59 of those people deserve their job back. And hey, you work with psychiatric hospital.

You better get paid every minute of the week. >> Yeah. >> And I hope you guys have a great time. >> Yeah. >> So it's like, you know, you better get paid every minute of the week.

>> Yeah. >> The minute of the time you're there. >> That's a hard job. >> Mm-hm.

>> Basically, then the APB goes out at 830.

So this is like, you know, a lot of time is passed. >> Mm-hm. >> Since Randall has just super chill style walked off. >> Yeah. >> That's a catcher grab.

>> Oh, a problem. >> So somebody called in a tip line and let the authorities know in Hawaii. That Randall had a brother live in Stockton, California.

“And that's how they knew to alert the San Joaquin Sheriff's Army.”

>> Yeah. >> Hey, you put out the same APB, you make sure. And that's how that news all got distributed correctly. >> Can you, quick side wire? >> Yep.

>> Quick, fill time. >> Yeah. >> Can you imagine being pepper other? >> Oh. >> Being in Stockton with your family and friends.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Look through the people.

>> Uh-oh. >> Yeah. >> Uh-oh. >> Sorry. >> No, that was the best thing I've ever heard of.

>> I thought you were alive. >> That was gorgeous. >> That was brilliant. >> Okay. So altogether, they Randall had been on the run for four days.

That whole span of time. But he had been trying to leave that psychiatric hospital for a while. So in 1993, he put in a request for a conditional release saying that he, uh, and the court said no fucking way you are a sexual sadist and a necrophile. >> Oh.

>> So you have to stay in the mental hospital. >> Mm-hm. >> Deputy prosecutor Jeff Albert said Randall Sato is very disturbed, mentally ill, individual, who is very dangerous with respect to whom all the predicators indicate that if he were to be released, he would kill again. >> Oh dear.

>> That was in his, he gets his defense attorneys to once again argue for his release.

>> Mm-hm.

>> And basically he's not getting out.

>> Mm-hm. >> But a lot of people that worked there and the people that the doctors that, you know, analyze him or whatever the word is, that he was also very personal and had very good social skills because he's a psychopath. >> Yeah. >> He's a master manipulator.

>> No, you said as a, yeah, but it's like, yeah, and.

“>> Right, it is, I think for them, it is a, yeah, and, but I was using it as a segue.”

>> Okay. >> So I was trying to make it, I was trying to turn it that basically, since he's been in this mental hospital, he has had six significant relationships. Three have been with staff members of this hospital. >> What?

>> Yeah. >> And to the point where then a hospital administrator found out that Randall had been being escorted home for weekend, conjugal visits for two full years with nobody on that, like, height. >> With like a narrowing. >> Or whatever?

>> Yes.

>> Like he had two wives outside of the hospital that he would, he basically tricked people into letting him go home

and, like, fuck his wife, two different wives. >> Oh, no. >> They ended up blocking the visits for all patients two years later. >> Oh, exactly.

“>> Nobody, no, he's like, you know what?”

Now, nobody can leave the facility. Now, nobody gets cheats not there. >> That's not there. >> Have conjugal visits here or off. But if you think about it, if you've been committed to mental hospital because you've

been committed to mental hospital, you've fucking stabbed and shot a woman. >> For him, yeah, but the everyone else is like, oh, I did was go crazy one night and, like, break stuff. >> Oh, that's true. >> Well, I mean, yeah, that's case by case. >> Yeah.

>> But in general, they're basically saying, when you are dealing with, like, people like this, this can't even be an option on the table. >> No. >> Because you're gonna need a jail with treatment. >> Exactly. >> But he has been there for a long time, so he's like, you know, the mind is going.

Your path is going always.

>> Oh, so. >> And actually, those Dowians says were impetus for a rule change in 2003, the state attorney general's office decided mental patients committed to Hawaii State Hospital have no legal right to conjugal visits. >> So that actually went to the state level because of him. >> Yeah. >> Because it was that bad.

>> And he got so horny, he broke out. >> It's like someone get me a pack pack pack. I got to get to San Jose. >> I got a pack.

“>> So in 2015, Honolulu Prosecutor Wayne, to Shima, are you against him receiving passes to leaving the hospital grounds without an escort?”

>> So again, he was asking, he's like, guys, real quick. >> It's just me. >> And now you have to know of her. >> It's just me, the murderer. >> Can I just take a walk around the ground?

>> Right. >> And in this, these articles, they're also interviewing the neighbors that live near this hospital where they're like, yeah. Yeah, we didn't know they were allowed to leave. We didn't know any of this was happening. It's super crazy.

So anyway, the judge, so, you know, he was acquitted on account of mental insanity. The Circuit Court judge who deemed him mentally unfit to stand trial and committed him to the hospital is a controversial figure. >> Mm-hmm. >> He said that because after he shot her and then went to check on her and asked if she was okay, that to him meant he was insane. And so he was not, he could not stand trial.

>> Oh, that was just based on the whole thing was based on simply that. And this is what he said. If you look at the evidence that was presented, she did not move. She was bleeding profusely, her face was down. She did not move or answer him at that point and for him to think that she would identify him and therefore he had to kill her that becomes irrational also in my mind.

The same year that he had that ruling, he overturned a jury verdict that found high profile Honolulu crime boss. Charlie Stevens, guilty of a double murder, Stevens admitted to the murder. And the jury was like, yep, he is guilty. This guy comes in and it's like overturned. Don't ever do that.

He's going to walk away. >> Judges. He said there wasn't enough evidence. There wasn't enough evidence and the guilty party confessed. >> Yeah.

>> So anyway, they based on that. After that happened, protests happened at the state Capitol and everyone was calling for his firing. And an investigation, because clearly there's something going on. Are you on the take on all the cases? >> Yeah.

>> But especially with things like that, where he's basically kind of, and I mean obviously this is super technical, but the idea that a judge is like, I've decided you're too crazy to go to jail.

Because I think that seems crazy because this one thing you did in my mind and like you're not a fucking crazy person.

“So you're judging this based on your own fucking, you know, just like your taste.”

>> Yeah. >> That seems crazy. >> That'd be crazy. >> That's crazy. Don't go to jail.

Okay. >> Oh, also, on October 6, 1981, that same judge was a wrestler for drunk driving. And he was found later as his family is, um, Mokolea Beach House with multiple injuries, including a broken collarbone. He said that he passed out as he was beaten, but the investigators think that he tried to hang himself.

>> Oh, my God. So that's my super sloppy, but kind of amazing, still breaking story.

>> That's amazing. >> Where every article I read had a little more information. >> So he's in custody now. >> Yes. >> And they've extradited him back to Hawaii.

>> He didn't kill anyone else. He was out there. >> Nope. >> He did he go to his brother's house to the have things. >> He didn't have dinner.

>> He didn't make it. >> Okay. >> He didn't get any of that. >> Okay.

“>> He basically took two plane rides, well, three on the way back, and a couple cow rides.”

>> And we don't know who gave him the backpack. >> That's the thing. >> Is it his girlfriend in the hospital? >> Is it the girlfriend that he was visiting on his day pass? >> It's her.

>> Outside of the hospital. >> Sorry, honey. >> It's you. >> But there could be somebody on the inside. >> But how do you leave the thing up with your on the inside?

>> Oh, you mean like one of the-- >> She's like staffed by this awesome coconut tree as you walk out of the front. >> So it could have been on the grounds. >> Because also, how does he just walk off the grounds? >> Like just walk off.

>> Yeah, you'd hope it'd be more secure than that. >> And go to the park. >> If he is a criminal where the deputy district attorney is like, this man has all the makings of a serial. >> Yeah, but like I've watched this dude for forty-fucking years.

He's never tried to escape.

“>> It's like, you don't need to worry if you want to go look at the fucking.”

>> Yeah. >> And he's a psychopath. So he's going to be able to tell you exactly what you want to hear to make. >> Yeah. >> You trust him. >> Yeah. >> And maybe get him a backpack filled with cash and fake ideas.

>> Right. >> Because he had to have a fake idea to get on to that Hawaiian athlete. >> Right. >> So somebody was breaking the law for him actually. >> Yeah.

>> Oh, that motherfucker's going to jail. But then the thing that kind of drives him crazy, I really wanted to know more about that murder. Because also it's so insane and extreme. It seems like there's, because the thing about that is,

there's nothing sexually sadist about that murder from what you've told me. >> No. >> Or nephilia. >> Right.

>> So there's more shit going on.

>> It's like they have taken this story. And it kept saying police records, hospital records, and then interview things. So it's like this story is kind of like piecing itself together. Like there's ways it goes.

>> There's way more going on. >> There's way more. >> And I wonder, like when I was, when I was googling, because I really was just trying to look up Sandra, Sandra Yamashiro's murder in 1977.

And you can only find it within these articles by plan. >> Yeah. >> Or they're like the original, the original news report that someone made. >> Yes. >> I was trying to do that.

>> Cool it's around the name, all those search names that you try to do. And nothing came up about her specifically. >> Mm. >> Which drives me crazy, but I guess also because it's so long ago. >> Yeah.

>> Maybe those like, that my graffiti has been thrown away. >> Yeah. >> But anyway, hopefully more stuff will come out about that, because it seems like that guy's done way more stuff. >> Yeah.

>> Obviously he's been prosecuted for. >> That's fucking awesome. I can't wait to hear more. >> Yeah. >> And we're back.

She'll have a hitters this week. Karen, do you have any updates? >> I do have a couple. So after escaping, Randall served five years at the Helaua Correctional Facility before he was transferred back to the Hawaii State Psychiatric Hospital.

When he was charged, he pled guilty to the escape charge. But he said he had no other option but to flee. He said he escaped to prove that he could exist in the community without harming anyone. Saying, quote, this is about buying myself time in the community to prove that I could be in the community without doing anything wrong. >> Wow.

>> And quote, a new building for the hospital was unveiled in 2021, including more cameras in fewer blind spots and exits points. And after Sato escaped, six hospital employees were placed on off duty status, and no employees were formally disciplined anywhere beyond that.

>> That story's wild, and I remember discovering it and getting interested in it, and it feels like 50 years ago. It's such a strange, like this part of this experience is so funny. Where it's like, oh yeah, we've done so many of these stories. And each one was like exciting and interesting and like a full dive into a whole world.

It's kind of almost like heavy to think about. We got past like the first 20 where like we could pick them off the top of our heads,

the stories we wanted to cover that we've always been interested in.

It had to start like doing some digging and some googling to research the story. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And like stories we had never heard of. It became a job, but it also got really interesting.

>> Yeah, it was like we could be directional about what we wanted to be talking about. >> Right. >> Totally. >> Cool, it's like watching ourselves get a little agency as we're writing this insane canoe. >> Yeah.

>> Like we can actually, don't not a canoe Karen. We're not on a goddamn canoe. Are you fucking kidding me? >> It's kind of crazy like a canoe or sometimes the weight's off and it gets all shaky. And you're like, what the fuck is going on?

>> All those canoes you're writing all the time. >> You know, everyone's swollen the white waters come up in the canoe. She is grew up to paddle a very specific way. >> All right, let's head back into good things of the week from fucking 2017 all places. >> I don't know.

[MUSIC] >> That was great. >> Thanks, Georgia. >> Yeah, Karen. >> I mean, look, look at your mom nail polish.

>> You know what's insane? >> What? >> Laura can attest to this we could call her right now. I bought this nail polish last night. And I go, isn't this the best color and she goes, that's the color mom used to wear.

>> I go. >> I swear to God. >> I swear to God. >> It is, it's like a brownish moth. >> Yeah.

>> And it's very 1982. >> Well, goodbye. >> No. >> And one thing that makes you happy.

>> You do it first, I've been talking for so long.

“>> I had a couple, but I think very simply my favorite thing is that you have found gifts.”

>> Oh, gifts. >> Yeah, say gifts. >> It's true. >> But I don't think anyone knew what I was talking about. >> Yes.

>> I thought you meant gifts. >> No, gifts. >> I love gifts so much. >> Yeah. >> And you didn't do them until like the past two months, I think.

>> You know why? >> I didn't understand. >> I didn't understand that you had to get the app. >> Oh, yeah, Giffy, G-I-P-H-Y. >> Yeah, you just get that.

>> And it's already on your text. >> It's not on for you. >> Nothing, there's no better response than a response in gift. >> Yes. >> It's just perfect.

>> It's very specific. >> Fucking mean. >> I mean, fucking thing you like, any fucking face you're trying to make. >> Yep. >> It's so stupid and funny in gift form.

>> And you, the fact that you now like do it to me makes me so happy, because it's like, it's really funny. >> 'Cause you did it to me forever and it would make me laugh so hard, and I wanted to do it back, but I would be trying to do it. I would be going on to like Google and then look,

putting the word Giff into fucking search bar like the old woman that I am. It was making me insane. >> Stephen, did I ask you about it? Is that how I ended up getting that app?

“>> No, I think you've found it on your own.”

>> Yeah, I do. >> Oh my god, you've been out for my favorite thing, where this week is that I did it on my own. >> Who's the big girl? >> No, you know, my favorite thing is, and this could be,

I'll go even simpler than your gifts, because the one I sent to you tonight is stolen from Stephen. It's my favorite gift of all time, and it applies to any situation. It was Kardashian peaking around a bush. >> Yeah.

>> And it is so fucking funny, and the first time Stephen sent to me,

I, of course, sent Stephen some text. It was like, no, Stephen, go fuck yours over some, some obnoxiously joky mean thing. And the response was Kim Kardashian peaking around a bush. >> What do you put into the word?

>> Kim Kardashian Bush. >> Oh god, no. >> Don't do that. >> No, don't do that. >> I think it's sneaky or sneaky.

>> I want to see that episode where it's from. >> Yeah, I don't care.

“I think I've seen that episode, because they made Chloe go on a date,”

and then they all watched her from behind a bush. >> She was on a weird uncomfortable blind date, and she didn't want to go and Chloe and Kim, I know, sorry, wait. >> Kim and Katrina.

>> Katrina. >> Kim and Marie and my favorite one. >> Right. >> Made her do it, and then spied on her and laughed at her, where it's like, that's the one of the first episodes I ever saw,

where I was like, but you made her do it. >> So this isn't like, you're not what, it's only funny

>> Right.

>> If it was her idea, but it was your idea,

so you can't make fun of her. >> So we pushed the Kardashians and what they stand for, but we love the gifts they make. There's the thing, the gifts are their gifts. >> Whatever the Kardashians thing is,

you can't deny it, and you can't fight it, because one time I went and laid down on my couch and turned on E accidentally, nothing I would do intentionally, and there was a Kardashian marathon on, and I watched every fucking episode for like hours and hours.

>> It's A-Man. I watched every episode of fucking Nicolas Che and Jessica Simpson. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that thing wasn't funny. >> And I literally, so much.

>> That was brilliant. >> I know some of the people that worked on that, they were like comics. >> What about Ashley Simpson's show? >> That was amazing.

>> I'm not interested in Ashley Simpson.

“>> Well, what about fucking six years ago, were you?”

>> Yes, yes. >> When she was married to Pete. >> When? >> No, it's but way before that. It was like when she was like, "I'm the famous person full of sister,

and I'm gonna do it on my own." >> I know, she's like, "I like her, I like her, I like her." >> Oh my God, I'm fake punk. >> Yeah. >> That was a good joke.

>> But that the original Jessica Simpson is like with some fucking gorgeous television. >> So good, bad, honey. >> Guys, look and listen. We've done it again and back in.

>> Look. >> Okay, we're back. So as we said, this episode was originally entitled The Hague. Just one of the all-time grades. >> Why do you like it so much?

>> I think because we got into a little system of how we were doing it, like it had its own voice. And then this, this was just this insane, almost like, we were being diplomatic or political.

>> Sorry.

“>> You could, I couldn't tell you what happened in the Hague”

if I had the full internet and a half an hour. I would still come back with kind of not really knowing. >> If we were nitting it today, something I understood, maybe we would call it Goonies, raise the bar, which is good.

>> Also, you have to be brave. >> Just get up there and shop it. >> Red Dawn's situation. I think I like that one. >> That's good.

Or gifts are their gifts. >> I think they're in the boat. >> They come out asians. >> It was right there. >> It was right there.

That's a good one. >> All right, well, thanks for listening. Let's take a bye from the newly cleaned podloft back in 2017. >> You know, if you've ever

tuned in to us because you were trying to waste time. Or just distract yourself. >> I feel like this is the episode for you. >> Congratulations.

“>> I hope we took you to a different planet.”

>> Listen, this was absolute madness. >> All hail, Marrietta, Yager. >> Yes. >> And back in, live your life. Do you shit?

Just try to do it, Marrietta style. >> Like, don't do what we do. >> Fush now. >> And monsters. >> Jesus.

>> Nice. >> No one's trying to do what we do. >> [LAUGH] >> And stay sexy. >> And don't get murdered, please.

>> Bye. >> Bye. >> Always on Donnie. >> Hi. >> Oh, that was cute.

>> I'm Michelle McFee. And I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. On Mormon polygamous and an Armenian businessman. >> Multi-million dollar house for our East and Lamborghini's private

jets a billion dollar fraud. >> But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of fraud on the Ayahar radio apple podcasts

or wherever you get your podcasts. >> When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target.

>> He is not going to get away with this. >> He's going to get what he deserves.

>> We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me babe. On the Ayahar radio app apple podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC]

>> I'm Nancy Glass host of the burden of guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. >> I was a monster.

>> Listen to burden of guilt season two on the Ayahar radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.