1123: Infamous Rules Controversies

>> The right club, the right club today.

[MUSIC] >> That is better than most, how about you? >> That is better than most. >> Better than most. [MUSIC]

>> Expect anything different. >> Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the no-laying up podcast. Solid here, join in person in, we got a couple in-person podcast. We're going to be recording this week sitting to my left Mr. Icarito down from the north you escaped the snowstorm you're here with us, hello, Neil.

>> I just got out more snow this morning, hey, I got to do a chat with you. >> Well, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you.

>> T.C. First time seeing the office, I'm loving what I'm seeing.

>> Thank you. >> Very nice, very good vibe in here. >> Thank you, glad the friendly skies were extra friendly yesterday. >> They were one hour in the lay, no, I'm impressed with Newark's snow removal strategy. >> Multiple. >> Multiple, was multiple times a free ad for a different company that is not the title sponsor of the no-laying up podcast.

>> The title sponsor of the no-laying up podcast is of course our friends at Titles. We are going to be talking today about some rules controversies. This is not necessarily part of a series that we've done, but we've really, really, really enjoyed what I think doing a much of deep dive episodes. We each have different topics that we're going to dive into. One rule you're probably all familiar with, you can only have 14 clubs

in your bag at a time. Also learned in some of my research rules of golf have changed over the years. >> Quite a bit. I was deep in the rule book last night. Not only have they changed, the number of the rule has changed. 13 becomes eight, three, all kinds of stuff with the modernization of the rule. Sorry, I interrupted your ad. >> That's quite all right. You want to make sure that each of those 14 clubs, those

serves a specific purpose and works with the rest of your setup when you go tee it up. Easiest way to make sure you are dialed with all 14 clubs is to go get fit. You could go find out that you have multiple clubs that go the same distance or that your longest iron is flying too low and it doesn't hold the greens consistently or you've been

“playing maybe the opposite, lob wedge grind that you should be playing. There's all kinds”

of examples. >> That's something to happen. You fall in love with a T grind and now you're in a K grind because the wear pattern on your wedge is on the leading edge instead of the trailing edge. That happens. You can also change your posture to dress which means maybe you should reset the driver. I don't know. Maybe both of those things happened in January. Do you see me at TPI? Yes, I had to change iron shafts and go lighter because

I'm a little slower than I used to be. I also, I'm lighter too. >> I was saying like, hey, you know, I'm hitting the driver poorly, but like that's me and they're like, no, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let's look into why it might be something to misshap. Sure enough. A shaft change later and I was hitting the ball straight again. So go get fit. Spending time with the professional fitter is one of the easiest ways to lower your scores.

Go to titleless.com to find a fitting near you guys. What was your, you want to talk philosophy here? We, we each did a little separate deep dives and just some rule stuff. We're each going to tell some stories, dive back into some history. Where did your mind go when we started talking about like rules, controversies, rules scandals? Maybe scandalist stuff in there. Where did your brain go and how'd you end up with where you landed? >> My brain immediately went to

“pee. That's what it was. >> Allegedly. We're not going there because there's there's”

libel laws, there's slander laws. >> Allegedly. There's Larry claim and we are here on the great set of Florida right now. So we're not going there. We're not doing that today. >> I was thinking scandal. So when I sat down and do my research, I was thinking it would be a kerfuffle, maybe something at the open championship, grounding of clubs in places you shouldn't ground them, but it actually, I ended up in a vastly different place with something

that I didn't even know about, but I, I love my selection, I'm pumped about it. >> I'm glad to hear that I, I was all over the place. I started with Dustin Johnson, you know, at the PGA champion joining of clubs. It was Dustin Johnson to us open. I ended up on some master stuff and I ended up settling on, I'm going to do three dives, we're going to

start with the first one here. Three dives of different depth here. But it's three examples

of Augusta, what I would say, call playing God, Augusta kind of making up, not making up their rules, but ruling in a way that maybe only Augusta could get away with. >> Well, thumb on the scale action and it's all of them are gray. All of them are like, hey, wait, it's like, by the letter of the law, did they get it right, or can they make it a legal case if they wanted to of how they got it right? You could, but you can poke

holes in all of them. I thought I was going to have John Long gone on this one as well.

“I'm not a flipped on that one. I think he deserved a bit of life. Yeah, you said he took five”

minutes. Allegedly took five minutes or so to hit a shot on on 16 or 17. I don't, I don't

>> All right, so I'm going to of course start us with the biggest name and golf of our generation that is Tiger Woods. Okay, I don't want to flash back to the 2013 masters. This is not that long ago, of course, no link up actually existed during this time. We were

quote unquote covering our first masters on Twitter. It was a disaster. I went back and

looked at some of our tweets. It made absolutely no sense, but it is the source for a lot of this conversation comes from a unbelievably well done. 2024 golf digest YouTube video. It was produced by Jake Powell, voiced by Greg Snettaker with credit to Allen ship nooks the drop

“in SI. Honestly, I was planning to have a ton of research on this and it just, it laid it all out”

in the YouTube video. So big credit that you go back and watch that because it's got a lot of great images that go with it as well. But Friday evening of the masters in 2013, it is 6.33pm. Tiger Woods is coming to the 15th Holy's wearing black pants, a white belt, a white Nike shirt with really bad yellow accents. It's like white on the front yellow on the back with a black stripe between

it. It's it's a very indicative of the era representative of the era, but gosh, is it really,

really tough to look back on just just what 13 years later. Also, that's crazy. It's 13 years. But Tiger, do you remember where Tiger was ranked at this point? 2013 as he gets to the the 15th whole there. It's robust to me. This was like the the kind of post-hank bump, right? Like a round in the world where do you think he's ranked? Is he back to number one? Yeah, I'm going to go with him. He is number one in the world. That's exactly right. He was favored

to win the masters. Not only that when he gets there on that Friday afternoon, Friday evening, really, he's tied for the lead. Okay. Everyone is watching this life. This is Friday evening masters golf with Tiger tied for the lead. Like one of the most visible and memorable moments in my golf watching. Yeah, the hydrants in the past were back. Maybe we were so back. We are so back chipping hips. Don't worry about it. We're good. It was a blip on the right. We haven't got

the chipping hips yet. That's that comes later. But like it's, look, he's guys 15. Yeah, you know, my bad. We, you know, 2011 fall off. Of course, we all been having in 2009, 2010 was random and up and down. All that. But all right, he had a little hideous there, but he's back to he's going to go win some majors. So, type of lead blows a drive way right off the 15th hole and has to lay up in front of the ponds. He's got 87 yards to the far left pin right back into the

“setting sun. It's a very, very important detail here. It is a blinding setting sun.”

Again, that pin all the way on the far left narrowest trip of the, of the green. And Tiger is just dialed in at this point and perhaps two dialed in. Sorry, just, yeah, if I, I'm trying, I'm almost picturing it right now. He laid up to the left side. So it was like straight on the left side. He was, he was farther on the right. Okay. All right, because I remember watching it, but I had it in my head. I had him on the left, like, going straight at the pin, but you're saying he's over on the right.

We'll get there, actually, because that's somewhat of an important detail. Not kind of like right center, maybe in the fairway. Okay. It's the shot and it is just on a B line for the flag quite literally. And it strikes it on the way down as strong as it possibly can. And Ricochet's back into the left into the pond, child JFK. It's just a massive groan in the, I mean, the, just a roar in the gallery, complete shock from everyone. Ferties and shock, all the announcer, sorry,

the shock is a, what are the worst rub of the greens that you could imagine? Didn't remember this part, but apparently there was some controversy about the pins that year. There had been multiple caddies that had brought up the fact that they thought they were about twice as thick as usual. Okay. And they said, you know, you know, even one of them had an anonymous quote of like, I can't imagine what it would be like if a ball hit one of these pins and in fact, the tournament

“and a drastic way. I didn't remember that. Is worth noting in August, the spokesman denied the flags”

were any different. Okay. Good. So just the potential new supplier of flags will never know.

We'll never know. I mean, I'm sure we could do a forensic analysis of flag. This was, this was pre-brice. And though, I think if Bryson was in the field, we would have had it announced. Well, late, late, Jake, it certainly helped us out with that. T.C. 13 years ago, I don't know if those, they, they probably burned all those flags to make sure. Oh, I'm just talking about the, the broadcast. Good point. All right, Neil. Rule 26-1 presents three options for a drop here. Can you tell me

what the three options the tiger has are? Because it's a yellow marked hazard. Yes, red would be five. I didn't even know that. Yes. Well done for you. So it would be, you can always play the ball from within a club length that like replay the shot. Remember that you, from the spot, started to meander into an interesting territory. It is in this time in 2013. It is from as near of us of a as nearly as possible to the prior spot. Yeah, not a club length later. That is a

I don't know if there was one. There was one. There was one. Okay. Or you can play it where it went in

“within two club lengths of where it crossed the, the penalty area. Close. Keeping the margin”

of where it last crossed a hazard. Yeah. And this is hazard language back then. Yeah. Keeping that point between you and the penalty area and going backwards as far as you'd like. So that, I thought that was only on red. No. So you can go on the line into infinity on the way back with where it crossed with the in line with the fence with the red. He would have been able to drop in theory where it crossed up by the green. Yeah. Just no closer to the hole within two club lengths of

where it, it last crossed. I was talking, I thought the rule was where it crossed on the fairway side

of the, so that's hazard. That's where a lot of people confused. It is, you got the, keeping the

point where it last crossed playable land between you and the hole back as far as possible. So a, maybe a, a, a way that Tiger got a little bit confused with this is it is not between, like, if he's looking at where he, where he crossed the yellow line from where he hit it, yeah, he could go back to yards, which is the mistake he's about to make, which we can get to, but the margin was actually to the left. So where the bulk ricocheted off the flag went into the

hazard, correct. He should have gone back if he wanted on the left side of the fairway. Yes, if you

“wanted to use that rule. So that's why I'm thinking about him on the left side because I remember him”

playing the shot. Well, no, he went over to the left side. So he hits the pin, goes in the water and he goes over to the left to take a, goes on a walk about. All right. You could tell he's, you know, he's, he's, he's not very happy, although it just happened. But goes over and looks at the, the life from the drop area. Yeah. He's exploring his options over there. He said it was too wet. It was grainy over there. Quickly ruled out that option and returns to where he hit it. Where he appears to

return to where he hit it and, and, and, and replays the shot hits another six shot, stuffed it in there and saves six. Yeah. Crisis averted. However, watching from home, it was funny. One article said to his home in Pont of Egypt Beach, which I got really excited.

“Later, find out. It's actually in Charlotte. Do you remember who is watching at home and who affects”

a, as a massive downstream effect into what happens here? And I will say, it ends very differently than it begins on this part. I don't remember. I'm guessing it was a former pro, which is going to feature into my, my show and tell as well. It is a former pro by the name of David Eager. Okay. And Eager is watching the coverage later on a recording. His wife asks him to go, run to the, the Lawn and Garden store, get a bunch of potting soil, get some stuff for the

plants. We plan in the garden. He presses record on his TV, goes out and then when he comes back in, he's, he hears something on the audio that says Tiger bounces back from the bogey. And he knew Tiger was playing 14 at 15. So he rewinds to go see what happened. And, and sees Tiger take the drop. And as soon as he sees Tiger take the drop in 15 fairway, he knows there's a problem. So again, Eager's a former pro. He's also was the USDA senior director of rules and competition

from 1992 to 1995. And he also ran the PGA, it was the PGA tour's vice president of competition from 95 to 96. So not just a former pro, he knows the rules. He's a rules guy. He's a rules guy. He's a rule follower. So rule maker. Yeah. He's going to, he's going to be, he's going to be the call-in guy. He sends a text to Mickey Bradley, who's a PGA tour rules official. Eager knew that he was working at the masters. Bradley had already wrapped up from the day. He pulled over on the

side of the road and called, called Eager back to get the explanation. Bradley forwarded onto

another rules official by the name of your second guess, not your first guess. Second guess,

after sluggered. You've got to, you've got a cameo from him. Yeah, we got a cameo from, when when you hit her blocker. Mark Russell. Oh, Mark Russell. Mark Russell calls the head of the master's rules and competitions committee, who is, who would that be at this time? Some glad you guys don't read, Bradley. It's Fred Ridley. Yeah, very exactly right. So this is all going on while Tiger is still on the course. And that would the purpose of Eager's urgency was to make sure it was caught before

and listen, that's always my philosophy as well. Like, that's the CC ways. Don't want to call these

things in, call them out on Twitter so that people know about it before they sign their card course. Of course, change that rule since. Well, no, that this was, this was changed prior to this,

“like this, this was an effect in advance of this. So, but a, and potentially important note here,”

there happens to be a history between Eager and Fred Ridley. Ridley was the 1989 Walker Cup captain, and Eager was on the team. Eager conceded a put of that he would later call on a golf titles interview 10 inches and Ridley had managed him for it. Like, he would not, would not not a fan of, of conceding that put. They don't gain another yard. They were not, they were just,

that's one example of they were not a fan of each other. Again, this was eager to golf

titles. He did a my shot interview in 2013. He said, in 1998, I qualified to play in the US Open at Olympic. The walking official in my group was, right, Ridley after KC Martin, Ed Fryett, and I finished playing the seventh hole and noticed there was a weight on the AT. The seventh T was also empty, so I practiced putting, which is not prohibited at the US Open as it is at the

“masters in the PGA chip in on the PGA tour. As I was stroking the put, Fred walked over and said”

practice putting wasn't allowed. It was a serious objection because of Ridley happened to be right and meant I would incur a penalty. I suggested to Ridley that he check with another official, which he went off to do while I continued to put on the T at eight. Continue to put it. Yeah, yeah, no, I know the rules better than you do. Ridley returned to inform me that the practice putting was indeed allowed. A lot of years passed, but when it became obvious, he blew

past my take on the tiger drop. My 1998 opinion of his rules expertise was reinforced. In my view, Ridley's knowledge of the rules of golf was and is suspect. Right. So also in that Q&A with golf I just eager said, when a TV viewer calls in and I handled many Collins myself when I was at the PGA tour, you consider the source. You weigh that person's credibility and knowledge. Ridley apparently looked at my objection that tiger's drop wasn't at a point as nearly as

possible from where he played his third shot and rejected it. Fred's comment that it would be

splitting hairs on the drop being in proper was a stretch to say the least. So I'm kind of zooming around here enough because we know the tiger does not drop the ball as near as possible because there's a divot there. There is a divot there. That is what tipped e-graph when he's watching this. He went back and watched tiger's third shot saying, okay, there's no divot there. And now when he goes and places the other drop, it is not as near as possible to that spot. Anchor near as possible is so

abstract and the rule book. And it's like so it should it be it's changed. I know but I'm going back in time. Just how that rule was written. Did they want him to drop it like an inch for like what is near as pot like what is deemed near as possible? I think it's all right, if there's not a divot there and you don't really know where it came from. The rule is like anywhere as close as you

“think to where it was as possible. But there was a divot. There was a divot. And so in theory you should”

be three inches away from the divot. So there's also kind of something that protects you there. If it rolls in, if you drop in it rolls into the divot, that would technically be closer to the hole. And I'll likelihood because the divot would come after the ball. So yeah, don't have to worry about dropping in your divot. But it's got to be as close as you can to that spot. And put your right now that changed into a cobbling because it was very vague and hard to tell. So

he said really isn't my biggest fan eager wood later say he wished he hadn't done that and he wrote Fred Ridley in a apology on that. So he said said that he wished he wouldn't have called it, called out his rules. So I said that said that he isn't my fan. I think I have to look at that 4% that he has another rules are going very well. I don't think he regret that part. I don't think he regretted that part. He's going to bring out the story about the parting at the U.S. Open.

Can you still practice part of the U.S. Open? It's a good question. But that sounds like he was doing it on the T box. In the way it was written. I don't know exactly what what I don't think you can practice but on the greens, but I sound like he was doing it on the T box. But I don't know, this is the same day that Guantian long was penalized. This is the same exact Friday afternoon. Fred was all in that way. So just really, yeah, I was really busy with

this other rule of view today, guys. So guys, I got to penalize this teenager. I got this teenager of your cause of problems. I can't worry about Tiger. Again, so Lang's group was put on the clock.

Then he got a bad time and then he took whatever time it took on either 16 or 17. So it's like

“four warnings was like, dude, you got to speed it up and he got through. It was a true. What about China?”

Yeah. So Tiger finishes his round at 7.10pm. And again, eager said, all right, I'm a

credible person that called this in. Here's what happened here. The whole point of me rushing this

was you got to talk to Tiger before he signs his card. And so he expected when Tiger finished out on 18, that there would be a slew of green jackets there waiting for him. Yeah, to talk with them. They're not there. Tiger signs for a 71, and then proceeds to go on TV with Tom Renaulti. He explains how everybody feels. How do you feel? I went over to drop some. And you know, that didn't like the lie. I didn't like the angle. And then, so when back to where I was,

and actually took two yards further back, should be farther. I think TC took two yards further back and tried to hit my shot. Another two yards off of what I felt like I hit. So he incriminates himself.

“He incriminated himself. By using the wrong rule, rule 261 says, you must drop as close as possible to”

the spot where you played the original shot. So even so intent, he's established the intent that he

wasn't trying to grab close to the spot. And so there's a couple things in fact are here like eager to his eyes saying like, that's not as close as possible already. Fredley Ridley judgment call says, you know, hard to tell on the camera depth, which I think is fair from Ridley a little bit of like, I mean, like we're doing it right, but then Tiger goes on TV and says, no, well, the fact that they didn't even question him about that is it. That is it. Like eager

expecting like, let's go talk about this. Where did you drop this ball? So he comes out and says that. And so like that evening, the buzz starts. Nance and ferity are doing voiceover work with highlights and producer Bob Manspock comes in and says, like, a Twitter is a buzz about a rules

violation. There's some kind of strong Carter's going nuts all on right now. I went, I think I deleted

some of these because I went kind of, I went really hard at the Tiger track while you were deleting tweets like way back in the day. Wow, you're incriminating yourself. You know, it's like Tiger. I was so mad if a Tiger track. We were all texts like this was we were all going nuts on this night. Like I love to go find our old tax of like, yo, this is really bad. And Tiger trackers like, where's the best barbecue place in Augusta right now? Like, deal with one of the biggest rules

crisis in history of golf right now. Please, this was pre nuclear golf. Correct. Nuclear golf would have been all over this. Say what you want about them. So they rewatch the footage and ferity immediately notices it. Like, with it when it brought to his attention, they immediately notices it. They re record the show with conversation around the drop and then nance calls Ridley and Ridley says that he would look into it and really comes back to Augusta. It's just calls Ridley on the phone.

This is according to that golf digest video. And Ridley comes back to Augusta at midnight to further review the footage and listen to the interview, the Tiger game. So he watched it, he listens and he calls Steini and requests Tiger to return to the course early to discuss. And Tiger comes back to the course at 8 a.m. It to the principles office. There. Brandel, not loving what's going on right now. Is this pre or post Tiger's really bad drop at the players?

This is just, it's a month ahead of it. Month ahead of that kind of month behind it. No, no, it was isn't a. Those players won in 13. Okay. This is the year where Tiger got an F for his year because it was Cavalier at the rules. He had a ball that moved at the BMW at the Greenbrier. He took it. Something weird. I was like, where is Cross Twitter? Then off the tee. There was

“where did Cross Twitter? I was at the player's player. 14. I think I remember him hitting that”

real slicey one off a tee at the Greenbrier, but maybe I'm thinking of anyways. Sorry. Brandel, wanted some bushes somewhere. That was weird. That was, I think that was BMW. Okay. Tiger took, ends up taking a two shot penalty for the illegal drop. The 71 has changed to a 73. This is where I'm a, it's a little muddy here, but it sounds like Augusta just issues the statement on this. And nobody's available for comment. So like this gets lobbed out there. Brandels on the air

like five hours that morning just go and ape shit. They said, is it coming on Tiger with the call of this penalty on himself to disqualify himself for signing an incorrect scorecard. And then you know, when the two shot penalty came out, he said he called on Tiger to withdraw Augusta's, but well, I was going to say because I just want to be clear. At this time, it was still a disqualification for signing an incorrect scorecard due to Rule 3-3. We'll, we'll build up to that. Okay. Okay.

So Augusta's statement was the subsequent information provided by the player's interview

After meeting the player, it was determined he violated Rule 26 and he was assessed a two-stroke penalty.

“So like it's just like a perfect first-take situation. Graham McDowell says like this is a fair”

ruling. Shane Lowry says it's a joke and anyone else would have been de-cued. Brandels says, fuck this fuck this place. Brandels says if he doesn't discute, de-cue himself, it'll cast a dark shadow over his entire career. Who said that? Brandel. So but this is where in retrospect, Eager saved Tiger and if he had not called it in Augusta could not have used Rule 33-7,

which is the rule that somebody can't be de-cued via a call in. Eager would. So basically like

they're saying the Eager's call in identifying the Rules violation was kind of their safety net to be able to not disqualify him. Okay. That's interesting. That'll be interesting when I get to my role. Okay. Because that's a that's a that's crazy. It's also worth noting that Eager agreed that he believed that Ridley was correct in invoking 33-7. So like Eager agreed with with the ultimate ruling of this. Didn't agree with the process, but like using that as to not de-cued Tiger.

“Rick Riley talked about on ESP. I mean, there's a there's a great roundtable Andy North”

Curtis Strange. This was the Rick Riley mailing it in years at ESPN. Well ex-heat delivers a bit of a banger here. I gotta say still had a little bit of a fastball TC. He absolves Tiger. He comes on ESP and gives a great roundtable with Paul Azinger, Curtis Strange, Andy North Scott then pal, just like trying to break all this down. So again, no one from August is talking yet. Yeah. So everyone's just on the airway of speculating about all of this. And they go to kind of cut away

to Rick Riley who absolved Tiger of the C word. Like he's saying he did not it was not knowingly breaking a rule when he did it. He says quote, Acheter off the course. Yes, we know that. Acheter on

no, I'll never believe that. Whoa. So a later Bob Herag 2023, SI article says, Brande was at T-bones

in Augusta when this breaks. He makes a prediction. Tiger's going to de-cued tomorrow. He took a bad drop and signed that score card and nobody caught it. And Brande would say, when we showed the highlight on the air live on Friday, as saw where his divot hole was from the first shot. And then from the next shot and it hit me live on the air, holy cow. He did not drop it

“as near as possible to as initial spot. In commercial break, I argued force to replay it. So I think”

it's going to be a big deal. I got overruled and sure enough it blew up overnight. Brande said, ladies and gentlemen, we got him. Yeah. At this time, it was pretty cut and dried to me. He took a legal drop. He incurred a penalty when he signed a wrong score card. That's a disqualification. Then he implicated himself when he talked about taking the drop a yard or two back from his initial spot. That's a lot that went on there. So it's a Bridele said, we were on at seven a.m.

until about noon. And we didn't have the full story at all. We're doing our best to navigate the difficulty of the day. In my mind, that committee okayed something that was not right. Tiger was entitled to have the benefit of that decision. Sorry, Ridley would say in a news conference finally on Saturday. Tiger was entitled to have the benefit of that decision when he signed his score card. And to me, it would have been grossly unfair to Tiger to have disqualified him after

our committee may had made that decision. So that's, I kind of believe, I probably need just a little bit more hand up from Ridley on that. Of like, there was a call in. We should have talked to him about it. You would have caught this prior to the rules. So my, my, my manager of the rules might be suspect per a source. And so that's where I'm like, and this is going to be a theme with another one of mine later. Like, all right, somewhere along the lines, somewhere on the rules

committee, it Augusta messed up. And it led to another like kind of decision that kind of makes up for that. But was it the right application of all of the rules? I'm not like fully convinced, but but in some ways, it's a right application of like what's best for the, you know, it's an entertainment. Sure. And unlike a, the Augusta production, you know, it might as well be a drama that they produce every April. And it's still a queueing tiger when he's right around the lease,

yeah, not good for the drama. Or we got to find a, somebody get in the rulebook overnight and find a way to take the job. Yeah. I mean, it would have been better if he was leading the master's heading into that weekend. And so eager with later say again in that golf digest interview, I'd characterize the master's performance as a misuse of the resources available to them. I wonder who viewed the video of Tiger's drop and who agreed with Fred's no problem original ruling,

Mark Russell never saw it, but was included as being on board with Fred. Master's doesn't

lack rules expertise. Many are employees of the PGA tour, USGA, PGA of America, European tour, et cetera, who know who know rules and how to interpret every situation imaginable. Even if

talk with Tiger. It's rules 101. So this is where I feel like Tiger is like ex, ex, exonerated a

little bit on like Tiger shouldn't have had it withdraw or, you know, it's not his fault for signing the incorrect cards. He broke the rule. I guess you could say it is his fault for applying the yellow correct rule in properly. But that's where it's like you got a two-shot penalty here. Yeah. Somebody called it in and the rules officials messed up like delivering that news to the

“consequences. Yes. So this was it got to remember this was a pre-intent-based world. Again,”

this is eager continuing an invitation from the masters to serve on its rules committees is coveted among rules officials. When a person officiates at Augusta, there's a strong desire to be invited back. I believe that desire can trump the impulse to offer a differing opinion on something like the Tiger episode. Also, guest officials know the masters is entitled to make its own decisions. For what it's worth the masters is not alone. The USGA PGA Tour, R&A PGA

America, LPGA Tour, and other organizations also make their own decisions. It comes with the territory. Again, the rules now change so you can now drop within a club length. But the three rules for yellow-lined penalty area in modern golf now are drop within a club length

of where you last. You can always replay your shot. That is to replay the shot. Yes. That's the

replay the shot. There's a drop zone associated with the yellow hazard. And then the as far back on the line that it crossed in with the flag. And I'm realizing where I made them as made in mistake earlier. You can keep that you can take that drop. But it has to be within two

“club lengths with a yellow line. You can go far back. That's what happened last. It's all you”

want to do. It's so proud of me. Eager's probably calling me before we got to this part of the part. My tournament in January, I just sprayed one right. And I went 150 yards back on the last line. Because it was red. Yeah. Because that's the value of the red is that you get that my mistake. That flexibility. Whereas yellow you got it. He should have dropped if he was going to play that rule. He should have dropped where it rolled back into the water. Correct. Two club lengths

on the fairway side of the pond. Correct. Okay. You're right. Apologies. And yeah, please, please, please phone that in. If I could have gotten some comments. Before I passed over to you, Neil, I want to give a shout out to this little subtle dog logo up here in the top left corner. Deep, deep deep deep into the layering season. S. E. N. S. The kids are calling it. I don't know if they call it that anymore. And for the end of the community, that means row back is in full rotation.

I want to give a shout out to a few pieces, too, of which I have on right now. You know, I got the hazard hoodie, but the important part for this cool Florida weather, pairing it with the full invest. I just love this love. It's a nice piece. I love the feel. I love the combo. Like it's super warm. I feel way cooler than I actually am with this look. I don't know. I just love the hoodie outside the vest with the long sleeves. It's my favorite winter look. And if I can also,

I want to give a shout out to the summit fleece shirt jacket. It is one of the best pieces in my entire closet. It's trendy. I feel like about as fashionable as I possibly could. I'm not a fashionable person, but I feel like it's kind of like the stuff. The cool influencer guys are wearing on Instagram and for sure feels like I'm probably three years behind that trend, everybody wants to look like a lumberjack. Right. A little bit. It's even if you're, you know, trying to get your portfolio right with

it. You've got some of those shacks stuck in the door. Sometimes you want the vesting options, sometimes you want the lumberjack look exactly exactly, but it's, it's looks trendy, but it's approachable in the same way. So I encourage you to go to rowback.com, check them out. All right, Joe BACK.com,

use code NLU at checkout for 20% off your first order through the end of the week. Again,

rowback.com, code NLU for 20% off. All right. I talk for a long time. I'm ready for someone. I'll take the rings. Perfect set up for me. So I was digging in the research. I thought we'd be focusing on T.C. like wedge in the sand and in the Bahamas, maybe P or kind of a row grounding at the club, but the open potentially some embedded ball situations at Tori Pines. Not. We are going to Tori Pines. Okay. Before I, I do though, because it's related to Collins, just think about it in any

other sport. Like this, this isn't part of the rules of golf anymore, but imagine like in the NFL, if after a game was over, it's going to be like nah, he didn't, he didn't get the first down there. Like the fact that first golf you play from the stands or from the gallery, and then also like

“somebody can just call in. And I was thinking about it's like, do you have to, was there a number”

or an email where, where they like a submission box for this stuff? Can you Google it? I want to call in a PGA tour rules. Like, because that's just so, I don't know what I call it. Like what I realized is like a lot of these rules issues that are scandals that we're talking about. They all

on the coffin, before I get to the one I'm going to talk about, the nail on the coffin was Lexi Thompson, the situation at the 2018 A&A inspiration. She was winning and then a viewer emailed a rules official, and I don't know, it's like, was there like a [email protected], like I don't know who emailed in,

“but that she marked her ball improperly in her Saturday round. So then in the middle, I think”

on the front nine of Sunday, they come out and tell her, you're getting a two stroke penalty, because we reviewed the footage from yesterday. Like red handed. Yeah, but we're getting a two stroke penalty, and then you're getting another two stroke penalty for signing the incorrect score card. So, and then that's the part where it, like, because in the, in the one I'm actually going to do,

it's a, it's a DQ. And then she, at this point, she just gets a second two stroke penalty. So she was two strokes

up, and then she goes, what's, what happened? So then she goes down, especially when she didn't get, like Tiger didn't get an extra two shot penalty. And so, you know, signing the incorrect card. You get DQed because of the rule that you brought up, 26, but he also didn't get the extra two strokes for signing the incorrect card, which is why it's, that's the part that is, um, because really doesn't know rules. Yeah, that wasn't consistent. So anyway, the Lexi Thompson situation, she goes from

two up to, then she's down to, and she battles into a playoff and loses and a playoff. And like,

“water works tears. It was like a big, you know, scandal. I remember that was so tough. That was just,”

like, if you don't say, like, clearly, well, but it was, it wasn't like closer. It was like, off to the side wasn't it? And it was just like, she was like, like, so serious for that, too. Yeah, but like, the punishment of four shots for that didn't fit, like, maybe, maybe, fudged, like, 0.05 of a shot, moving the ball a little bit was, if it, I know, if we don't hang up attention, you think about that being a four stroke penalty by the time it gets, like,

reported to her, but the act of doing that in the middle of the tournament, same thing with Dustin Johnson, the U.S. Open, he, you know, his ball moved on the fifth green Molly's putting, they come up to him. I think on the 11th or 12th hole. And like, hey, man, we're reviewing this thing that happened on the front nine. So then the whole back nine, nobody knows if he's getting that

“penalty stress to nobody knows what the lead is. It's crazy throughout the whole, back nine,”

a Sunday at the U.S. Open. So for viewers to be able to call in an impacted tournament in real time, it's just like, I just want to call that out as like, what a, you know, shout out to Kyle Porter,

like, normal sport, like, what are we doing, right? So they do away with this finally, which if you

do want to call in, I can't find a number for the rules. It's called TCC. But 904, 285, 3700 is the number, just PGA's were HQ. I'm sure you get an operator there that'll connect you to the rules department. And if not, try 213.0804. So they do away with this rule in January 1st, 2018, which was almost preempting the modernization of the rules when they did the big face lift to the rules of golf in 2019. And they've done away with the two stroke penalty of signing the

incorrect scorecard in the DQ. They just like assess the penalty after the fact, if there's an issue, which, I don't know, what do you guys think? Does that make sense? I'm watching this legacy replay again, and it's so bizarre. Sorry, continue. I know. Well, that's not the one I'm doing. So what I'm doing, I want to take you guys through Tory Pines, 1987, TCC, are you familiar with Craig Stadler's tailgate? I am a little bit, actually. So it was during the 1987 Shirchen Lehman Brothers Andy

Williams San Diego open. Shut up. Try to say that. That's the name. That's the name of the tournament. We are going to do a segment at some point. I've got a few good ones here. So this is back in

Madison, RIP will even brothers first off. Shout out to Andy Williams, kind of in the Bing Crosby,

like you used to have tournament hosts, especially out in the West Coast, Bob Hope. Andy Williams is just gasing up the pro way, I'm out there in in '87. So what was the guy's name that that punched was Dick Fold? He was the name of brother's guy who punched somebody out like on the treadmill or whatever. I don't know. Somebody punched him out when he was like, when they were melting down in 2007, I just can't get over the name of this event. Do you want to hear my

Lehman Brothers story, quickly? Sorry. It was 2008. You want to know how I know why? September 15, 2008 was the first day of my career and that was the at KPMG and that was the David Lehman Brothers collapse. And we're supposed to come into the office for training and we go in and it's just like, chaos from the jump. They were supposed to have this whole training organization thing for us, and they just put us in a room while the partners were meeting about other stuff as Lehman

Brothers collapse. Somebody came in and said like, we're like, hey, what's going on? And again,

And I said, out loud. Both of them. I didn't know what the Lehman Brothers were. The whole family,

“both of them got the Carter Brothers collapsed. Oh my god, really? How did that happen?”

I mean, but just shearshan Lehman Brothers, Andy Williams, San Diego, and there's just like what a different time in golf. So anyway, Statter's having a week. He's tied for the lead with George Burns after 36 holes at Tori at 1300 par. So on Saturday on the south course, he drove it under a tree. He's drove it under a literal Tori pine. And if you guys don't know, Tori pines are very rare trees. They only exist in that state park where the golf course is. It's there and on, I think Santa

Rose Island, like off the coast. So very specific tree, obviously it's the logo for in the name for Tori pines. But he drives under a Tori pine on 14. So it plays next shot. He needed to get down on his knees and the walrus, one of the keep is pants clean. So he lays a towel down and to Neil on before he plays a

shot plays it successfully. He finishes tied for the lead after the third round and would play with

Burns again on Sunday. And then the walrus ended up finishing fourth, sorry, he finished the fourth round Sunday, 1800 par tied for second place. He's four back of the winner, who's George Burns. Sam's dad. George Burns set the then tournament scoring record at 2200 par. Who has a tournament scoring record? No, at Tori pines. Justin Rose. Justin Rose 23 under. So that, that's stood since 1987. That was a pretty long scoring record. So I thought that was interesting.

Quick aside here, though, I love this lead from the L.A. Times. Chris Cobbs and his gamer after the turning quote, George Burns, the golfer is easily distinguishable from George Burns, the comedian. Burns, the golfer, is the one who often wears long faces and has a tendency to get really down on himself. His idea of a good time is writing an exercise bike in lifting weights. It's just like, whoa, what a detonation of the winner that lead off that article.

So I don't know much about George Burns, so that that one just stuck out to me. Another very stupid fact from the Shireshan Lehman Brothers, Andy Williams, Anthony, opened under the provisions. This is from Chris Cobbs article as well. Under the provisions of a special arrangement, the tournament sponsor was to award a $10,000 treasury certificate to the golfer who posted the low round each day. So if you, if you had the low round of the day, you got a $10,000

treasury certificate. Absolutely. That burned the fastest lap thing we ever said. Burns collected all four certificates, which will be, which will be worth $200,000 upon maturity in 20 years. Posting a 63 on Thursday, he had the low score in both the first and final rounds. Because there were ties to the low score for the other two days, the bonus certificates were carried over to the final. Hell yeah, skinny style, the sole property of Burns. God, I love stuff like that.

When asked, if he understood the complexities of the treasury coupons equipped, yeah, I mean, my kids will be going to college and quit it. So I thought that, I was like, man, what a nice little

wrinkle of like, leaving brothers trying to activate. What are any incredible, what incredible week

for the guy to win all four? Well, in this, this article goes over, he had a really bad,

“he won more winning this event than he made the year prior. I think it was like a,”

500k person. I think he won 90k. He had a bunch of health issues. So he had battle back. That's what he was like an exercise freak because he had like, and he had some energy issues. I don't know, George Burns. I was kind of like, write that down. Maybe we'll go look him up later. So anyway, they come off 18 finishing the round. Staffers like he's supposed to be T2, and he went to sign his card. He was informed that someone had called in to report a rules and fraction from his

round on Saturday. Staffer was told he violated rule 13-3 at the time. This is now rule 8.1A. I think the rules, once the rules are in place, they should keep that number. I know I got really confusing. You can just look him up. You know, you add new rules or whatever that takes on a new number, and there's certain rules that like there's no more rules. Number 1045. Yeah. Well, it's like so 13-3 was a quote of players entitled to places feet firmly in taking a stance,

but he may must not build a stance and laying a towel down on the ground was considered building a stance. We have a representation of just rules, a rules pod later this year because it's just like, I don't know, I actually think it's kind of interesting. I want to do a rules question here. Steve, we had one ready for the live show at Pebble, just like put you on the spot of like,

“all right, Sally out there. It's going to, this happens. What are you going to do?”

Well, dude, I, like I said, I feel like I know the rules pretty well. Like I, I would be quick to call in an official because I wouldn't want to cost my guy anything, but like from our land of junior golf days, like we did those rules seminars, like I, I tried to have a good knowledge in the rules. Remember what else we know from your land of junior golf days from you in the rules?

traumatic experience to be called out on the second old country club. Yeah, as well. I was like,

“I needed to know the rules because that was tuned. Okay. So he was, so then he was just,”

he was then disquat the walrus, we're back to the walrus. The walrus was then disqualified from the event for signing an incorrect scorecard on Saturday after finishing his round on Sunday. Now, today, rule three dot B, uh, and then parentheses three. They call like the, the exception, uh, prevents disqualification of a player returns a score or a whole lower than the actual due to excluding penalty strokes. They were unaware of before signing the card. Instead of disqualification

the committee will correct the score by adding the necessary penalty strokes provided the mistake as identified before the competition closes. That is the now current rule. But so this is where you were talking about tiger. I'm like, man, walrus got disqualified, right? And then Lexi, she gets the two stroke penalty for signing the incorrect scorecard. So I'm thinking they updated that rule. I don't know this. I forget when the TV, the TV call in rule came in to say like

“somebody was like 2017, I think. No, that was their prior to tiger. So this is where it gets”

interesting as I did some more digging. The penalty and disqualification cost $30,000, 37,000, $33,000 and 32 cents for his T2 finish. So that's our digging in deeper on some sourcing. We got Pete, uh, trendemns golf blog. Anytime you see blog spot dot trendemgolfhistory.org, you know, just like an old school like blog that like is from the 1990s, you know, you're in for something good. He's got it. Someone had telephone the PGA tour office while Stadler was playing

the 17th hole on Sunday, stating that a golf rule had been broken for checking a TV replay. The

PGA tour had disqualify Stadler. So basically they ran a replay of what Stadler had done on Saturday

because they were like, oh, like check out what happened yesterday. Like how cool is this shot? He's on his knees playing under a Tory party. Nobody had caught it until then. Nobody caught it. So

“this guy calls in. So this caller, he wasn't just anyone. He was a stupid eager. That's why”

it's laughing about the eager thing. It was a Billy golf print pro named Robert ski regal. Do you guys know anything about this guy? Absolutely Venice. So I look him up. So regals born in 1914 in New Bloomfield, Pennsylvania went to West Point and Lafayette played baseball on football, took up golf in college or after college age 23. When the US amateur in 1947 over Johnny Dawson at Pebble Beach two in one. He played in the Walker Cup, 1947, 1949, for Captain Francis Wemay ever heard of him.

When undefeated in his four Walker Cup matches, he was a low amateur at the masters in 1948. He thirteenth. He then turned pro in 1955, plays in 11 straight masters. In 1951, he was tied

with Sam Sneed after three rounds for the lead, finished second to Ben Hogan by two strokes.

Then he stopped playing full-time in 53. He was a head-pro at Radner Valley Country Club and then he was the pro emeritus at Cape May National Golf Club like late in life. So I was like man, this guy's a legend. And then he saw he dies in 1994 in 2007 and he had his awesome obituary on USDA dot com written by this guy. Glenn Ken Clevon on the USDA website. I just want to read this quote because it's it's sweet quote golf loss and irreplaceable link to it's past over the weekend.

Someone who bridge generations of golfers from Francis Wemay to Tiger Woods, Robert Ski Riegel could count. Wemay Bob Jones Arnold Palmer Jack Nicholas's friends on the course, offered he mingled with the late Lucille Ball Bing Crosby into some degree Bob Hope. Those were just a few of the many souls Riegel touched and what he termed in 2007 of full life. And quote. So like one of these just kind of a ledge. So back to the this candle. So he calls in

also a guy that calls in rules rules well. Oh no, it's probably not so simple similar to this. So he so ski ladders and he got his nickname Ski because he when he was a kiddie strapped like just would like two by four to his feet to just like ski down at Hill with his childhood count. He's got called Ski, Robert. So Ski, this is from Pete Tranim's blog post. Ski later said that the interesting part of this is he had turned on his TV late Sunday afternoon

and saw Stadler playing the shot while kneeling on the towel, which he later figured out was a replay. So he thought that it was during the round like he just turned on same thing with with the Tiger story. He because he was a pro. He's like I was trying to call it in so that he wouldn't sign an incorrect score card. But he ends up calling in something that happened on Saturday. So not realizing he's looking at a replay from Saturday. He grabs the telephone and calls the PJ

wasn't penalized before he signed for the wrong score, which would have been two strokes lower

“than a score with the penalty. Ski was only trying to save Stadler for being this fall.”

Same thing. I was just trying to help. Ski said that if you had known what he was seeing

to take in place the day before, he never would have made the telephone call. It's a tournament

official that not been notified until after Stadler and all the other players can put you the last round the results of the final. The result would have been final with no penalty. So if the tournament ends then it's like, you good, then you're good. But within the four days of the tournament, that's the crazy part. It's not the round. It's like the four days of the tournament and then you close the books. So the ending of this whole story is poetic. When Ski called, he ended

up getting in touch with the media PR guys. His name is Rick Schloss for the, at the time, Shirtian Lehman Brothers, Andy Williams, San Diego. Open. He's the guy that answered the phone call from Ski and a golf digest article from John Stredge. Sorry if I'm pronouncing your name well,

Straggy. Straggy. Thank you. And 2017 he says, this is, this is a quote from Rick Schloss. I got a call

from a guy on that Sunday that said a player at Broken Rule. I thought, okay, whatever, you get crazy people calling it all the time. I'll start things. It goes on the right eight years later, in 1995, that story pine, that specific tree on 14 died. Stadler kind of down. Yeah. Schloss and his publicity chops taking over noted, noted that Stadler would be in LA for the PGA championship at Riviera Country Club, the one that, uh, L. One, and that Rive. So this is a quote from Schloss. I said to Tom

Wilson, the tournament director of what by then was the Buick Invitational of California. Let's invite Craig. Maybe he'll come back and cut the tree down Schloss. Stadler said, yeah, I'll come down. So we meet in front of the toy pine in front of toy pines and have 15 to 20 golf

carts to take us out to the 14th fairway. The Tory pines ground crew ground crew people had gotten

the tree ready to go. Stadler whipped out the still chain saw and cut the tree down. I've got some pictures that we can layer in. Absolutely epic visuals of Craig and the Wallace Stadler chopping the street down with the, um, with the still chain saw. So a couple of other funny old school columns. I found in the research. I wanted to call out because we had the Tiger one, Lexi Thompson, but these are both from a 1987 Chicago Tribune trees piece about the Stadler situation.

This opinion piece was just clowning golf of like, this is so stupid. You guys just disqualified this guy for something that happened. Yeah. I mean, it is, it's really dumb. That's a tough interpretation of the rules, too. Like, I don't think it is. You're building a stance. Well, no, you're protecting yourself from the elements. You know, but they can't wait a little bit. Like golf goes about having people be able to call in like this. I'm not going to read this whole opinion piece,

but it shouted out to two that I didn't know about. So a couple years ago, and I looked

“this up. I think it was the 1984 Darrell open. Um, so Andy being won the Darrell open by a shot”

with a shot that TV viewers insisted should have come with a penalty. Being had knocks some leaves off a limb during a practice backswing. I went looked it up. He ended up going back to like switch clubs and then came back. Uh, and the telephone calls flooded the clubhouse. There was no rules violation. They deemed, but being was so distressed that anyone would think he cheated that he offered to give back the trophy and the money. Jeez. And then I didn't know

this one, but a pebble beach in the early 70s, uh, Arnold Palmer, uh, when when he was at the top of his popularity, TV viewers saw him on the 18th tee looking down the fairway with binoculars. Collars demanded he be penalized for using artificial assistance. It turns out he was just looking at some protesters on the beach. So it's like solid looking for it. I thought it was going to look at a bird. It was like climate protesters or environmental protesters on the beach. So they

“they approached, uh, Palmer's like, no, it's just looking down at the beach. I think he took some”

some binoculars from some spectators to check out that somebody holding a sign on the beach. We need to find anybody. No, what he was gawking at on the beach. Oh, come on. Anyway, I didn't know about how gate from from the wallers, uh, your neighbors. I know. I was thinking, like, that's over a hundred K in today's dollars. And I mean, our HO is not nothing back there. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm sure he would have loved to. It's just. He can buy a market 18. That they took,

that that that that that happened in 87 and all the rules stuff that as I was like looking this up is that all kind of comes from just like people calling in to make it a, you know, and I guess it's still, it's such, they don't, they don't call it in, but I feel like they have a referee or whoever inside the mode, looking up rules issues, right? But they, those guys are probably paying attention to social media of like, oh my god, everybody's going nuts about something

they saw on PGA tour live, somebody, you know, they got several guys watching. So viewers are still

to with with golf at the rules of like the rules are sacred, you know, you got to, you got to

police yourself and, you know, and then as soon as somebody like calls in, something, it's like, kind of fucking an arc, man, like what are you doing? You're like, when you try to, you try to screw my guy over here, it's like, okay, it's things. It, uh, it's such an interesting, interesting conundrum. Oh, yeah, he's got the lot, the lot, the squads here, it looks like, oh, this is good stuff,

“he's never, never, never, never fails, every time. I think we'll be, I think we'll be okay,”

or is that all for yours? That's it. That's it. Hopefully that was, that was more until, uh, on, on Talgate than you had, than you had previously. All right. Well, we, we've talked a lot about fitting, right, to start out the show. We talk a ton about how much we obsess over our gear, getting fit for shafts, tweaking the lying, those making sure it fits our game perfectly. And then most of us will go home and sleep on a completely generic pillow we bought five years ago.

That makes absolutely no sense. We partnered with Lagoon because the idea is simple. If you custom fit your clubs, why wouldn't you custom fit your pillow? You go to LagoonSleep.com/NOU. Take a two minute quiz about how you sleep, and they match you to the pillow that actually fits your body type. It's adjustable. You can dial in in exactly like you want. I think, well, as soon as we

“tried these things, T.C. was just like what you said you slept better than you had in four years.”

Yeah, I'm a big, I'm a very finicky sleeper. Uh, I have a, one of the long Lagoon pillows. It was immediate relief for me. A team otter? I'm otter, yeah. I'm also an otter. I'm neck. Just, just generally speaking, like I see a chiropractor, about once a month or times a week. And then I also have the Lagoon travel pillow as well. Jumping using on airplanes and just to beef up pillows and hotel rooms and in an Airbnb as well, which can be very, very inconsistent. So, uh, I did not take one

to pebble and I regretted it because uh, I was not sleeping nearly as well as I do at home. So, if you're serious about marginal gains, start with the eight hours before the round. Go to LagoonSleep.com/nou and use code NOU for 15% off. It's a serious, it's a difference maker. It really is. I cannot recommend it. So, so, there's all over the place. It's all over the place. Some, some take pride and it's some don't. But yeah, it's literally, you know, I need some, I need some subfields there. Well, that was the crazy

thing. But Lagoon pillow, it comes with extra foam and extra stuff that you can, you can, you can

“adjust it off or dose it down. It's crazy. I like invest in your experience. I think it's, it's”

money extremely well spent. Yeah, and they're not at very expensive either. So LagoonSleep.com/nou T.C. You're up next. Oh, my gosh. All right, guys, this was kind of a journey as far as getting to, I will say, also, I totally stole one of T.C's ideas and the main one he had. And so, I've sent him on a little bit of a journey to find what he was going to deep dive. But the next one I'm going to do, I totally stole from T.C. Oh, good disclaimer. Oh, good. Yeah, I was going to, you know, I think about

rule stuff. I think about Ted Purdy and Stuart Sink at the, at the heritage back in the day when some people might not know exactly what that was. But you say, you say some unfinished business. It was the same level as the Tiger Drop. He talks about it. So I, I think it's 10 times worse than the Tiger Drop.

Stu Sink just basically cleaning out the back of his, of his, you know, lie there in one of the native

areas, kind of the, the sandy native area. I thought he hit it on his backswing. And that was kind of more of what I'd, I'd see. Anyway, that's not what I felt. That's not what I felt. And then I thought, all right, Gary player, 1993 skins game, you guys know anything about it? We did dive on it. I've, they have Watson got super pissed. Yeah, Watson got pissed. They, you know, very contentious Gary Anderson, the great man from York Times wrote wrote a piece, Joe Day, begged him not to run it. Gary player pulled out a leaf

from allegedly allegedly pulled out a leaf in it in a pop back up. So like it wasn't a, it was in the ground. It was, it was part of a weed, really. So, but we're not doing that either. And then I looked all right, Gary player at the, at the 1974 open championship that rhythm should we be doing that. You know, he is his caddy rabbit allegedly dropped the ball on the 17th hole. After he couldn't find it in some high grass and somebody has it in the vault somewhere at some point. Like,

got it. That breaks down the line at some point. I would love it. Listen, we can't verify it. Okay.

But, all right, what about Gary player next to the 18th green on the 70 second hole? I live

them where he's, you know, hitting a bunch of sand away on his backswing after he, after he played it backwards. We're not going to do that one either. I also thought there was some interesting stuff from that one on the subtext of the, of that tournament, which was some dinner, you think?

The Royal and Ancient golf clubs decision to make the larger size 1.68 inch golf ball compulsory

“for the open championship at Royal Libman sandions from July 10th to 13th. It's brought sharp”

reaction from the golf ball manufacturers conference. Quote, dangers and disadvantages of this decision are frankly almost incalculable. In my memory's view, it was surprising anxiety said sandy spank at the secretary and a letter to the RNA. The letter also states it would seem a most undesirable precedent in highly dangerous in every way that the championship committee

should set aside the rules of golf for the purpose of one event. It has always been our

understanding that the RNA rules of golf permit the use of a 1.62 ball unless and until general meeting of the RNA decides otherwise. I are stricting the open to the American size ball may well in many people's eyes become simply one more major championship instead of retaining the distinctive character imparted by playing the British ball under British conditions.

“So we're not doing that. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. We're not”

we're not we're going to talk about Monty. Okay. Okay. And I are either of you familiar with the Jakarta incident. I'm not. I cannot say I am. Okay. This was in Indonesia.

In Indonesia. Okay. The Indonesian Open. Okay. This is in March.

Monty. Mr. Worldwide. March of 2005. It's got a spice trade or what it was. As I was digging into this we have like this this might have been the peak for like you know internet golf journalism like everything you can like you can find everything. It's still up on the original websites. It's not an archives or anything like that. The way back machine. Yeah. So James Corrigan, Lawrence Donovan, John Hopkins with three guys like all the big three. Yeah. Corrigan wrote

some of the you know followups on it. But Donovan was at the center of this. Sure. Excellent Donovan this morning about it. He was like oh we should just have on for a phone call

because there's there's so much here. But basically Monty. Monty was in a bunker and there was

a lightning scare or like like a big storm was was rolling in and he couldn't get his stance in the bunker correctly. So instead of marking his ball in the bunker for the reindeer way for the

“weather delay he just leaves his ball there. Okay. It goes back out. I can't remember if it was”

I'll read the articles and stuff but it goes back out in the balls not there. Okay. So allegedly which I don't even think it's alleged at this point. This is what happened and he admitted to it. He places the ball about 18 inches different from where it was prior. Totally different stance ends up getting it up and down and all of this is very much in question because he's jogging to get inside the world top 50 to get into the players, the US open. All I was going to ask

why was he on holiday and in the new year. This was a big big national open back the day on the European tour. I hate that it's not anymore. Yeah. So this is Lauren's done and so this doesn't break for like months afterwards. This is kind of swept under the rug. So he was going to have an awkward stance in the bunker. It was super awkward but the lake comes. He comes out and all of a sudden he's got a conveniently easy stance. It's all on film. I guess there was a

YouTube video of it that it was up for a while. It's no longer up. This is Lauren's done. I got on Wednesday, May 11, 2005. In a review on herd of for a generation on the European circuit. Colin Montgomery was yesterday criticized by his fellow professionals over an incident at a tournament in Indonesia earlier this year doing which he replaced his ball incorrectly after a rain delay. Montgomery has apologized since and donated his 24,000 pounds and

prize money to charity. Notably he did not donate his OWGR points. Right. Yeah. I'm glad he might be my way into the... The Scott was reportedly questioned for half an hour on Tuesday night at a meeting of the Tourist Tournament Players Committee of which Montgomery is a member. Along with 12 other senior European pros, not seniors but highly regarded. After which a statement was circulated of the 156 players competing in the British masters at Forest of Arden. The committee

considered the circumstances concerning Colin Montgomery at the Indonesian Open as an attempt to replace the ball in the correct position after a weather delay. They considered thoroughly and at length all the facts. The committee expressed dissatisfaction to Colin over as a attempt to replace the ball in the correct position. Yeah George O'Grady was seeking to calm and you know put to rest a lot of the disquiet amongst the guys. One European tour source

be issued in two decades. Two people at the meeting described it as quote perfectly

“amicable. It was a good opportunity to put questions to Colin and a good chance for him to”

give answers. He explained what had happened in the committee was happy to accept his explanation. Now it sounds like what is the explanation? I cannot find a good explanation. In one of Lawrence's pieces after he said the Scott was mortified after watching video footage. So we've got Monty returning the following day, the ball's been stolen. Under the rules Montgomery after consulting his playing partners was then required to estimate the spot where it had been. This he did,

although the poor officials were then contacted by the Danish golfer Soring Caldson, Jerry Norkist, a member of the Asian PGA tour board. Both had been watching TV pictures and

expressed concerns that the Scott had played his second ball from a different place. In this event,

Monty Montgomery was able to take a stance outside the bunker with his replacement ball and shipped to 18 inches where he made more. That said, like obvious, yeah, man.

“I was wondering, for a lightning delay, I thought he was coming back like a couple hours later,”

but you're saying it was overnight. Yeah. In the ball, somebody just took it. The tournament referee Jose Zamora subsequently cleared Monty Montgomery of any breach of the rules. So the we contacted the European tour's chief referee, great man. The late great man, John Paramore, later reviewed the television footage with the Scott. If I had been there at the tournament, I would have penalized him two shots, Paramore said yesterday. In my opinion,

you'd not replace the ball close enough to the original spot as the bunker was there to help him as a visual reference. As soon as Colin saw the footage, he was mortified under European tour rules. Once an event has been completed, and the results filed, the results stands unless evidence subsequently emerges that are played deliberately broke the rules. There's no suggestion Montgomery's error was anything other than an inadvertent. The Scott competing at force of

Arden said yesterday before the statement that he hoped the issue had been put to bed and added, we are a big family out on the tour. I'm glad that the issue was raised at the committee meeting. As soon as you don't mark your ball and you come back the next morning, it's not there. There's a guest event to be made about where your ball was. I guess it made it too far off the realms of where it should have been. Montgomery said he had not marked his ball because he was

concerned about being struck by lightning. I was one of those about like when you mark your ball overnight, they'd have to re-drag the bunker. Somebody's got to pick the T up and then put it back and that's the made it spot anyways. Or in grass if you're in deep rough, how do they see where

your T markers are? I've always wondered how that actually works. I feel like you could

if they saw the T or the tournament organizer who could talk to the superintendent and say, "You got to watch out for this." So basically, Monti gets absolutely vilified in that meeting. He gets crushed by some of these guys his senior and Monti is like the tour at this point. I know, I want to give Monti the benefit of the doubt. I'm not aware of any of this reputationally for him, but it's also like, they just think he can kind of get away with one

and nobody would, I mean, it's hard to go to bed knowing like, "Hey, I haven't got a really awkward, I came and take a stance in this bunker." He's like, "Oh, now I can hit a 18 inches the next day." And you kind of know. It's kind of why I was looking for some sort of like, when I was doing a research on what I was going to present. I was, it's hard to find other than like P allegedly intent based like, you know, or Mr. Player as you've been saying where it's like,

"Yo, this guy is clearly trying to hold one over." The intent there's malice in his intent. The overnight stuff is interesting too. Like, what if the ball was plugged in the bunker and then like they go and drag the bunker. Like, do you have to plug it back in the bunker yourself next day? I don't know the answer. But also like, you know what your stance was?

“Totally. That's what I was saying. I think that's how the bunker now that's.”

And I guess there's just like, the zapper or film there, like the, you know, one versus the other. And Gary, I think there was another guy, Gary, I haven't seen was watching it on TV from a hotel room. He spoke up and stuff. But it's just from Lawrence. He said, "Here's a beautiful detail for you." Fast forward a few weeks after I'd written the story and things were bubbling. The European tour is at Forest of Arden for an event. There's a player meeting on the Monday night.

Ponty's there. Next day, I hear about the blow up at no details. No one is talking. And then I see John Paramore and I ask him, "Anyways, just to me, go over to the tournament office and take a look at the player notice board." What a legend J. P. was. The tournament office is off limit to hacks like me, but I go in anyway and nobody stops me and they're on the notice board. It's a letter to members. And it's a statement about the previous night's meeting telling

members, Monty had been officially reprimanded for his comp. There's conduct in Injacarta.

gift. So this pops back up in 2009 at Turnberry. Sandy Lyle just gets up and rips the scab right back off.

“And what about when you cheated in Jakarta? Basically. What about the Indonesian open?”

Basically. He was so sad. So Sandy Lyle was frustrated about being overlooked for the

captaincy, the writer. So he accused his fellow Scott of a form of cheating. This is for you and you and Murray in the Guardian. When playing in the 2005 Indonesian open Injacarta, despite an attempt in apology yesterday, the two-time major winner did little to retract those words. A matter which drew a furious reaction from Monty. George O. Grady, the European tour head was similarly unimpressed. European tour wishes to state that the tournament committee debated the Jakarta situation

extensively and made it full statement at the time. And we put that to bed. Yeah, Sandy said, I had time to digest what Sandy said yesterday and I've decided to say nothing. I don't think it's promise. More in comment. I've come here to play golf and I've been hit with this just because he's disappointed not to be made captain. Please don't take it out on me. I know he's disappointed. That's obvious. That's fine. Please don't take it out on me. And it sounds like Sandy's just kind of

incapable of telling a lie or putting a good spin on things. He was going to get back up, apologize and he just doubled right back down. Which is sick. Monty at this point was hovering around 53, 54, 55 in the at WGR. He plays really well into the year, gets up into the top 10. So the rankings aren't really an issue anymore. And then, you know, 2006 obviously almost wins the US open and winged foot and stuff. But the Jakarta incident. And I just love this. I love the European tour in

that they're just like, they're just, it's like men dealing with these things. Right? And that's not, like they will use the press to their advantage or they will play politics with the press. Press is so different over there. Yeah. Yeah. But also the press has different libel laws over there too, which are much stricter and more, you know, much more enforceable too.

So John Hopkins wrote something about basically creating a tribunal like an independent inquiry

“into this specific incident. Like that's how seriously it is stuff. So Jesus. Yeah. There you have.”

Monty really. He just won another crack at those majors. All right. Well, I've got a couple more here of the little short of my first one of of Augusta related incidents. So how much do you guys actually know about the 1958 masters? Is this the Kendventuri or New Year? This is the Kendventuri I believe Arnie played two balls. You are right. I remember the 12 on 12. Everything I know about this is because the men in green when Michael Bamberger kind of profiles Kendventuri and he's

a crusade to win a major as an amateur and you know, stay a life-long amateur and all that. And then

how he never ever let go of this incident. That's that's stuff I learned in this as well. It's more

than I knew of this. I knew that Arnie plugged a ball on 12 and controversially played a second ball and it made the difference in the masters and we will get there. Sources here. A golf channel article from Mercer Bags. Sick name. Yeah. A 2013 ESPN article from Bob Herrig in a bunch of 1958 newspapers include the Kansas City Star and various other articles at the time. He don't name people

“like that anymore. Everyone's going training Mercer Bags. That's like 2004 or five I think it was.”

I wasn't familiar with that name. But going into the final round of 1958 masters, Arnold Palmer's tied for the lead with Sam Sneed at 500 par. Carry Middle Coff is at 400. Billy Maxwell, Al-Mingert, Art Wall Jr, Bo and Bo Winninger are all at minus three. Fred Hawkins, Billy Joe Patton, who was an amateur and Ken Venturi are all at minus two. Okay. And Ken Venturi's amateur? Ken Venturi's not an amateur, Johnny Moore. Okay. Okay. Maxwell, you know, you know, his affiliation

correct. I do not. You stone, I park golf club. I did all that. I did not know that. What a dumb. So, again, don't you dare. Arnold Palmer, I believe the Sam Sneed at minus five. Ken Venturi minus two. Okay. They're playing together in the final round on Sunday. They are out well in front of the leaders. Television was a new, new-ish thing. At this time period, I couldn't find the actual T times, but Arnie in the lead goes out like an hour before the final

It's all that we've lobbied for that at times where they should be able to just do whatever they

“won't with the groups. Pretty much. Yes. More so when it's like a guy finishes if you're tied.”

If they're tied instead of being like first guy in, it's like we want to put

speed in the final round or in the final group. The master should do that. They absolutely should. They don't have to before. For the drama, that's one they should say we're going to handle this one, guys. So again, they're out well in front of the leader. So there's, and this is also a gust at this time, and this is written in the newspapers at the time, is viewed as one of the only tournaments you would ever go to or attend or play in and know what is going on around the

course because they have leaderboards on the back nine. That was not a thing back then. So it is like their pioneer in that regard because it used to kind of not matter what order you played in because you had no idea what was going on the golf course. You couldn't really scoreboard watch anyways. So had fast forward to today and it's still analog. So they get to 12. Palmer's leading been cherry by one shot at this point. Again, it's kind of hard to tell what the actual leader board

“says at this point, but it's 155 yards. What do you think Arnie hits on the 12th hole?”

Seven. One fifth. I was going to say seven. It's a four iron. Okay, okay. I absolutely saw that in one place. I don't know if it's accurate, but I founded it in a 1958 news post shortly. You see, four iron. You hit four iron. You might have been into the wind. It's swirling down there. So it's worth noting it was too much club one and it's worth noting this is a super wet masters. There's been all kinds of rain and they both. So both Palmer and Venturi hit it long of

the back right call location, but Venturi's ball kicks onto the green and he has an easy to put par. Palmer's ball embeds. It sticks in the mud. He calls in a room to crash them. Yes. Yes. And at this

time, important distinction, there is rough. There is no, there's no second cut. I can cut.

So you're right. That's not called rough. You're not called rough, band. You want that credential bit right off your chest? Come on. No intent there. Calls in a rules official. Palmer would say later, the golf course was very, very wet and that day we were playing wet weather rules. I saw an official there and I said, "I'm going to lift clean and place this ball," and he said, "Oh, no, you're not." He says, "You can't do that." He says, "You can't do that." He was the official.

Well, of course I knew better. It's so I begged to differ with the official. That's in a 碼's quote. The rules official was Arthur Lacy, a former president of... Yes, yeah. Well, no, you know what continent this guy's from. He's an item relief. Former president of the British PGA, and a member of the 1933 and 1933 and 1937 Great Britain in Ireland, Ryder Cup teams.

Venturi would say in an interview, it could never happen today. There were only five of us there

and there were no cameras. I told Arnold that he should get a drop and that's when Arthur Lacy said it was half embedded. Well, that's like being half pregnant. It either isn't bedded or it isn't. And Arnie would say, "I said I'll play two balls and I did." And this is where accounts vary. So playing two balls of rules, which isn't allowed. Yeah. If you declare it before you do it. Okay. This is where we see some accounts are going to vary

and we're Ken Benchuri. I think it's a really raw end of the deal here. So Ken would write later in a book. I agreed with Palmer on the original call. The ball was absolutely embedded, but he didn't declare he was playing a provisional until after he made the double bokeh. So he was forced to play on by Arthur Lacy. He chops it like a foot and a half chipset on the ring, misses the putt, makes double bokeh. Okay. So at that point, playing a provisional,

“would you have to play that not only declare that you're playing the provisional,”

but also go back and play it and then play both? I would have thought that if you were going to play the two ball rule, you would play the ball as it lies and then immediately drop it. Or are you supposed to play out the first ball? I think you declare I'm going to play two. Yeah. You play out the first one and I'm not sure if it matters, but yeah. Play out the first one and you had. So the key here is you can't go make double and then say I want

to do over because the key is also if if the committee rules that the provisional ball is the correct rule, that's a score you have to take. Yeah. So if in theory, already from this half a half pregnant lie, if he holds it, he wouldn't say, oh, I'm going to go play my provisional now. He would have said, I'm going to take my birdie. So in theory, if you're going to try it, if you want to play the provisional and the committee is going to rule that the provisional

ball is the right rule, and the other score is lower, you can't take that. Yeah. That's an important distinction with this. So so it's a he said he said thing with regard to whether

ticky tack, but then you're like, no, it because he made the double and it was like, it doesn't

“get a sound like at the time. And on, Arnie later would say, I said, I'll play two balls,”

but Kim and Jerry did not hear that. And again, can agrees with Arnie that it was embedded. And we'll get to there to say the eventually Augusta says that the rules official didn't know what he was doing. He did not apply the rule correctly. So again, he plays the ball out, you know, so after he holds out, he says, I'm going to go back and play another ball. And he chips it stone dead and makes a three. So we'll walk off the 12th. And at this point is like 1958 is Arnie the

dude. He is like, yeah, so all, a lot of the major winners, a lot of the master's winners are like between the ages of 33 and 40. The guys are older. So he's a young guy. He's written in this time is being built like a blacksmith. He's from La Trobe, Pennsylvania. His dad does not, is not able to attend the final round of this master's because his other son is joining the Lutheran church in Pennsylvania. He's not able to be there this day. So like Arnie was popular and on his way to being popular,

but it's not complete Arnie's name. This is, it sends up being his first, this is first master's.

Yes, this is, first master's win. I don't recall that this was building his arm. I mean, first major. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He had finished T 10 in 55, T 7 and 57. And then you finished T 7 at the

“US open at your prior. So I mean, I think he was orchestrated to be in the TV window, though, because I think”

a gust. So that's where it's like he's going to get a favorable ruling here. And it's from like sounds like it's from Bobby Jones and Clifford Roberts. We'll get there. And it's like, is this a gust of putting his thumb on the scale to say, sorry, excuse me, Mr. Jones. So he walks off 12 and he is either made a five or a three. Obviously, that's going to make a massive difference in this tournament, especially as Venturi is trying to pace off of him. He goes on steps up to the 13th hole hits a

three wood and makes equal. And on the 15th hole, he gets word from Bobby Jones. There's a, there's a photo of him, Bobby Jones, Clifford Roberts, and Kevin Cherry talking about it. That the three wood stand and Palmer would say, I knew the rule and believed I was within my rights to do what I had done. So this is where again, it's hard. Palmer was right. The ball was embedded and should have gotten relief. Yeah. So it's, he gets a bad ruling. But he likely didn't apply the

provisional rule properly. But why were we in this spot? I got a bad ruling. And so it seems kind of like a gust to, you know, whether or not he played the provisional properly says like, well, you got a bad

ruling. You played the second ball anyways. Like you made it three. Let's let's move on. So Venturi,

again, also believed Palmer should have been playing both balls simultaneously. So it was the not gain a competitive advantage by getting a feel for the three conditions playing one and then the other. U.S.G. rules at the time under which the tournament was being contested, stated that even if a player did not announce his attentions ahead of time, the score he made with the second ball wood count, which in Palmer's case was the par. Venturi's argument, which he made in his book,

was what if he had chipped in for Bertie with the first ball he wouldn't play a second ball woodie. Says Palmer now about the accusations. Again, this is some 50 years later. Well, that bothered me a little. Yeah, because we talked about that and that's a dead issue. We moved on. Sounds like Mr. Venturi

is not moved on. I know he didn't move on until he never moved on. So so before on the eve,

about a couple weeks before, Arnie's gave me a play in his 50th Master's Venturi releases this book where he writes about it. And I don't disagree with anything Venturi wrote, but on a Palmer friend of everyone in the press, like people start to pile on Venturi for like stealing his momentum. And he's got some pretty shitty timing, right? Well, I mean, his publisher is probably like, this is books about the mask. You know, it's, you know, my Ken, he's got an army.

Yeah, it's cow an army. That's got an army. But like per the U.S.G. rules, I mean, yes, if Palmer would have chipped in with the first one. Yeah. Of course, he's not like, you know, he's not going to play the second one. Like, I get that, but he didn't chip in with the first one and per the U.S.G. rules. He was entitled to play a second one, correct? Right, but what if he got that one up and down? The first one up and down? Well, it seems like more of a hole in the rules,

“not necessarily. Like, the point is you have to do it simultaneously, so you can't figure out”

what you're scoring. If he's saying from what you just read, they changed that afterwards. It's right. It didn't state the U.S.G. rule at the time. Yeah. It didn't state that you had to if a player did not announce as intended, the scoring made with the second ball would count. But yeah, I got him, but that goes back to like if he gets it goes makes part. Yeah, I agree with you that it would be he's the rule, which sounds like they changed. You should have to state. I'm playing

is the common denominator here is when these rule scandals happen. It's like the rules compound. It's like one rule leads to the improper application of the next rule. So it's like, go, God, you get like a chain reaction where like, oh, you messed this up. So now you're DQ because you signed the wrong store card. It's like you just went down a decision tree. Cover up is worse than the crime. Exactly. Um, which is again, like what a stupid game.

Some irony in in Palmer's book, quote, playing by the rules. He wrote that he told Lacy,

he was going to play a second ball on a peeled a rules committee, but Palmer said Lacy wouldn't allow

that either. And the rules do allow for playing a second ball. Lacy really didn't know. No. Yeah. Tough looking for money. They wanted proper golf. He's like this. What weather conditions? What are those? We're not doing that. Maybe really just came from the Lacy rules tree. He said it is, it is possible that Venturi did not hear this conversation as he likes to play out. So that might

“be some of the great area. Yeah. I think you might do a nobody asked him. John Morrisett, a former”

director of rules of golf in the United States golf Association said he believed Palmer originally got a poor ruling. And perhaps the committee was trying to make up for that when it allowed the second ball to stand. According to Morrisett, it did not appear that Palmer played the second ball correctly. How many guys are we talking about on this committee? Yeah, I do. I have feeling it's Bob Jones and Clifford Ross. Some of the, one newspaper wrote, Arnold Palmer, a mighty young man with a golf club

or a rule book made the best use of both today and won the 20 second masters in the cavalry charge

finish. Kevin Trey's book, it says not nobody, not even Palmer is bigger than the game. I firmly believe that he did wrong. And he knows that I know he did wrong. Venturi were going to finish fourth and not the second. But both Doug Ford and Fred Hawkins had chances on the 18th green to tie Palmer, but both missed and Palmer ends up winning masters by one single shot. So wouldn't even been in a playoff. If the ruling had stand, ruling gets flipped and he wins it by one

Palmer and Palmer is henceforth known as a great man. I would say though it is good at least up ruling. It got finalized on the 15th hole. Yes, it has been very clear. I thought they all got finalized when they were trying to sign their cards, but that clears some of it up a little. And it does sound like a fuck up of just truly like I didn't, yeah, like we're properly implied, yeah,

“apply the embedded ball rule. So again, it's kind of like that's a great area. Like do they get it right?”

I think so, like he shouldn't have had to play the embedded ball. But did they follow the proper procedure to get there? No, they only go right. They follow the proper procedure because Arnie could have said to the rules official, hey, I'm playing a second ball inventory just didn't hear it. But it does not sound like that at the time. The later writing from Arnie makes it sound that way, but it does sound like he makes the double he's fuming and then goes back and plays

the second ball is where it's how it played out. But in Arnie's book, a golfer's life, he wrote Kim Venturi who was continuing that afternoon was among those who felt he'd been cheated by my actions on the hall, but I knew the rule and I believed I was well within my right to do what I done. This is from that same master's in 1958. This is I'll hold the name back for a second here. The 1958 master's was a memorable one. It hinge on how Arnold Palmer paired with Kim Venturi

“played the 12th and 13th hole in the final day. Since the course had been thoroughly soaked by”

Reigns, a local rule had been invoked for an embedded ball. On the 12th, 155 yard par three across raise creek, Palmer's iron carried over the green and embedded itself in the steep bank of rough behind it. The official evidently was not aware of the local rule as he instructed Palmer to play the ball. Is it leg? Palmer did this. He hold out five after missing a short put.

Then politely, but her to innocuously, never heard that word. Palmer went back to the pitchmark

of his T shot. He obviously felt that the official's ruling was not correct and elected to play an alternate ball. With that ball, he made three. At this point, no one knew whether Palmer's score was three or five. Palmer Eagle, 13, and while playing 15, he was informed that his official score on 12 was three. That in effect, one in the tournament in his first major championship, professional championship. I felt that I should try to come up with some appropriate name

for the far corner of the course where the critical action had taken place. The only phrase with with the word corner, I could think of was the title of a song on an old blue bird record that I'd first heard back in my college days, shouting in A men corner. The more I thought about it, the more suitable, I thought the A men corner was for that bend of the golf course where the decisive action in the master's had taken place. That is from Herbert Warren Wind, the first mentioned

of A men corner at the gust of national. How about that? How about a gust of same rough in there?

I've never heard the story and it's only on the Wikipedia page. There's no articles written about

this anywhere and I don't even know if it's true. A gentleman by the name of Alan Perkins got on the grounds of Augusta by asking Kerry Middlecock to share around from the hotel they were staying. Club staff assumed he was a liar. Yeah, share right. Club staff assumed he was a player and he helped himself to a spot in the locker room, practice on the putting green and began playing on whole one. When Perkins was forced by security to buy a ticket and remove his belongings from the club house,

not forced to leave forced to buy a ticket after playing whole one on Sunday of the master's. Paul, please now drive. I'll tell you what a weird thing for me is on this whole thing. He's been trying to finish T4. Yeah. He finished six shots back on. Yeah, I don't think it's like,

yeah, this really robbed me of it. It was just like my guy. That's kind of seemingly how it's always

come across from Venturi. It was like he got so wrapped up in it and felt so personally.

“Well, he's kind of responsible for it, though, as he put his score. Yeah, but like I think he felt so”

personally short-changed by it when really like Doug Ford and Fred Hawkins were the guys that finished second. I think he's protecting the field. I'm kind of team Ken on that regard of like I'm Doug Ford and they're not, they weren't there. They didn't hear any of this. They didn't see it play out. Oh, I'm just saying I think Venturi's like if you read Men and Green and a lot of his comments after the fact, he said, "Hist Venturi always felt like he stole the masters from me."

Yeah. No, man, like you shot 72 in the final round and after Saturday's round Ken Venturi was also upset. He had to put over six divot holes. And the way this again, this is written in the newspapers. He said, "With the rules that were in effect, ball marks on the Greens cannot be repaired until after the player's holdout." Well, that. But it's also written it. He's saying he shouldn't have to pay for other players' mistakes as in like what he fixed their divots after they were. Right.

And I couldn't quite tell if that meant like you can't fix your own divot mark before you hold out. And then you just don't go back and fix it. It sounds like it's like breaking a bunker. Like you couldn't. What I'm understanding is the rule used to be you had to play out, finish the hole, and then almost like after you hit a bunker shot, you break the bunker

“for the next group. But what if your own mark was in your way, could you repair it?”

If anybody knows about this rule from this part of history, please let me know because I couldn't figure this out. But he had put over six divot holes on Saturday. But again, he kind of blames it on other players and mistakes, like leaving them there. But I'm also wondering, could you only repair your own marks? I was confused by that. But that was in the newspapers as well. Also a note, Arnie played an 18-hole Monday playoff that week at the Azalea at Cape

Fear in North Carolina. He shot either 78 or 79. The newspapers have it in two different ways. But that week began with him playing an 18-hole playoff for a non-major 18-hole Monday playoff for a non-major event during the actual master's week. In the master's, well, like the master's wasn't yet really the master's. This is 22nd one. Yeah, but it was it was still written for time learning the best tournament. Like this was the clear best tournament. He's built like a

“blacksmith. Yeah. And I think with Paul, we're looking at the score cards and everything.”

Paul, if he makes double on 12, he would have gone to minus two. I've been sure he would have been one ahead of him. Yes, three. And then yeah. So yeah, I could see him getting jaded looking back being like, oh, I would have had him then if I was out in front. And then Arnie played, which it's pretty sick that Arnie got there. And it took like a three. I get it back then. It took a three would. So I prepared a one more short one. Okay, this is for the road. Big source for this one was

23 article in golf. I just by Joel Beale. This is from the 2023 masters. Says for those who missed what happened Thursday at Gus and National cameras caught Brooks kept his caddy, Ricky Elliott,

mouthing five to Gary Woodland and Woodland's Caddy Brennan little after his second shot into

the par five 15 kept also appears to be flashing five digits with his fingers before taking off his glove and photos show screen shots show that kept it did hit five iron into the green as outlined under rule 10 point to a golfer's aren't allowed to give or ask about the officers for advice. We we feel this. The penalty for both parties calls for two strokes. This was absolutely like this is this I smoking gun I still will willing to die on this hill like this is absurd and people that we

with which it was for sure carried out for sure. Of course, no penalty was called an official statement

from a Gus National confirm all involved were adamant that no advice was given or requested. Like we saw the video like Rick and he ended the fouls five and I have the images right here of Capca after wins his fifth major the next one he does a mockingly gives the final line show. Harry Harry. Harry Higgs came on and he was like oh you guys being everybody does this all way does this. I was like it's still illegal. I was like but they got caught they should that's bullshit

man. It was kind of like light enough to look in a player's bag. The rules is pretty specific like you can you can look in a player's bag but you can't like touch other clubs in somebody's bag to see what information is out there. That is legal if that catty happens to flash to a television camera you know that it's five iron and you see that that is legal like that is fun. But you cannot and like their heads are turned looking up the fairway like either asking we can't see them

ask but like very clearly looking for the information in both Ricky and Brooks give it to them and it's clear as day. This is another kind of tiger situation where the more they talked about it the more it sounds like that. Well that's just implicated to even more. Yeah Capca said we looked at it when we got back in you know Gary and Brennan had no idea what we were hitting. They didn't even know I know that fact because Widdling asked me what we were hitting walking off when we were walking

down. That's of course a lie Ricky says five Capca motions five you can zoom in on the club and it was clearly five. When asked about like his weird way of taking the glove off I don't know if you're supposed to take your glove off with your fist closed or what now yet there's a bunch of videos there's a bunch of videos going around of Brooks like clearly taking his glove off in a very normal fashion instead of like this with the five fingers wide. Brooks would say the last thing I'm

“going to do is give a give it to Gary the U.S. Open champ. The funny part about it is I think if you”

would have known we were hitting five he would have hit six because I don't think Gary is that short and he's ten yards in front of me which again just didn't make any sense like they're different distance. You weren't telling him to hit five he's going to make the adjustment. Widdling was 22 yards ahead of Capca on that hole. Widdling confirmed that he would have hit six higher not five had he known about Capca's club choice which wouldn't make sense like 22 yards is more than a club

distance between the two and Widdling's likely longer than then Capca again they're just like explaining lies upon lies because he said that would likely would have put him in the middle of the pond which again doesn't even make sense. So make palm again means that this is common practice on tour whether you like it or not happens in every professional event around the world this is not considered a serious breach among the players as long as I've been on tour this is

what it is. Which and I get that too where it's like it's just not that big of a deal like you still got to execute the shot but it's a rule and it's it's it's a rule and you got it's a rule yeah it's a rule and when they asked you did you do this they lied and it gusts to accept the lie and if we're going to disqualify the walrus for building a stance and taking on is handsome and yeah and and hit the teenager with a this was a play penalty just we're just asked for some consistency

“I was very glad Brooks did not win this master because I think it would have been a very serious”

asterisk on it like extremely serious asterisk he broke the rule and lied about the piece of it that's interesting to me so the rule states that both players would be penalized to stroke correct I thought it was only the instigator so now I go back to my junior golf incident there's it's great and it was actually well if it gave you the number if you can't go back to it no you'll ask him so that he gets penalized he doesn't give him the answer well yeah

he's still getting penalized because I asked you just to catch me well up first first competitive

and I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm out of play second hole part three it's kid you know I just made double the first kid he's off and just very naively I was like oh great shot man what did you hit there the other kid in the group was like soliciting club advice to two stroke paddling I was like "oh cool man that's quite hate to swear thank you I make I'm a bullball player I'm gonna start playing ten and then I remember thinking like so is that like is that anor it was like a warning

we didn't say anything else so I finish out it's like I make four you know I dumping a bunker

“chip on and I'm like okay man what I thought was a good four I think it was like four he was you”

mean six I got detonated thanks cause love this game you know what you didn't do it in cops man you didn't deny that you did it no of course another I didn't know you couldn't do that

which isn't it because nobody told me no which which I since then I've always been like that

came I was so much with intent like oh no I didn't mean to do it or we didn't do that like and

then they're just they kind of take their word for it it's like some guys where they see TV evidence it's like well no you did it even if you didn't know ten two we're gonna penalize yeah and it's one I don't know it's one thing this happens at like Thursday at the Zurich you know of like look I can go out of my way to look in your bag to do it and you're like I'll just save you the the walkover I that's where I'm like this I'm telling a little master so then

runs you the wrong way at the masters of like just straight up like colluding yes this is one

of the film rule where it's like you know it's a perfect protecting the field thing I don't know

it it does feel gross because it's like it's not against the course you know because golf is against you and the course this is where it's like colluding with another player it's just like something

“that I remember that I'm with you it rubbed me the wrong way at the time and I remember being like”

are we being like too old fashioned but it's like now it was kind of bullshit you can't like selectively enforce the rule the rules the same thing with McGinley saying saying that it was like all right well McGinley you probably also don't have a problem with backstopping

like I think there is a line with backstopping there is that's like technically not against

the rules like this that there is a rule written for that which is a good point it's just like this is like this is just for that like right the way the the way the rules work with backstopping is you can't ask for someone to leave it there which is true I think so I think he's right I think you can play like you can say I'm going to play my shot but if a guy I think it's

“the other person has declared their intent to mark yes yeah okay not play I think that's what it is”

thank you right yeah um which guys need to intend to mark correct that should must be to mark but again this that that's like grayish this is point blank man this is a rule of golf and you know it's hard because it's not like Brooks gained an advantage there but who knows how much of an advantage he got throughout the course of that round I know that's when you get to it you're like how many times but the rules is so stupid though like what what do you think about getting rid of this

rule no where it's like guys can just no no no it's a rule you can't ask for advice can't give advice I'm just I'm spit trying to say you want that 64 to be a 62 so anyways I think we left a lot on the table we could do a lot more rules episodes in the future these are weirdly we're weirdly fun of course very well you like you know about the macro you remember it like given the Lexi Thompson

“thing I remember that but then you go back it's like that was like 2018 that feels like it's 20 years ago”

the details the tiger thing I'm like I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't remember in that level details a little before our time but I need to get Lawrence on it just that's that Johnson no that's Adam Scott Adam Scott okay yeah so yeah just give us the blow by blow because there's so many fun characters we should just do a dive back into what your people were golf was like back though yeah I mean we will I watch a ton of that oh it was the best it was the best because like

well like I you know all the golfers were terror friendly law and the most minimalistic broadcast and they wouldn't talk a whole lot guys are just back spending at 50 feet at a time that's all it was playing and yeah they're playing in Jakarta Indonesia but it was awesome yeah so all right that's going to do it thanks the title is thank you to Robac thanks to Lagoon greatly appreciate everyone watching and listening we're going to do an in-person pot on Sunday night as well really well

right from the studio I think so thanks so I'm listing a joining we'll see you here later this week cheers