HILARY DUFF: The Human Behind the Headlines (Her Most Honest Chapter Yet)

Everybody has their reasons and relationships are difficult, especially with your face. It's painful as it feels to share when I decided to make this record. I could only talk about the things that I've gone through. Everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is someone that we've been excited for such a long time.

The energy in the studio has been electric for her arrival, and I'm not being hyperbolic or overhyping. I really, really mean it. I'm speaking today to the one and only Hillary Duff actress, singer, author and entrepreneur, whose career has grown up alongside an entire generation that I seem to have in my office.

First known to many as Lizzie McGuire, she's continued to evolve as an artist and storyteller, balancing creativity, family, and reinvention.

Hillary is now entering a new chapter with her sixth studio album, Luck or something. Her first full length release in over a decade out February, 2026. And you can see her on her lucky me tour world tour, kicking off this June. Do not miss out, we'll put the link to the tickets in the buyer. Thank you so much, Hillary Duff, welcome to on purpose.

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.

“We are very excited. I cannot tell you, I want to tell you because it's so important.”

I woke up this morning and everyone was like, "You know, this is our Super Bowl, right?" And I was like, "What? Like, I was trying to figure out one thing." And they were like, "Yeah, Hillary Duff is coming." Like, that was the reaction. People like, "This is our Super Bowl for get this weekend." No one says, "That's the excitement in the house."

And everyone once pictures, everyone has asked my permission. I was like, "I will ask Hillary, I'll use you down a lot." You know, it's just, but the energy around the excitement that you bring to people. Yeah. I mean, how does that feel? Because you've done it for so long.

But you still bring this like really electric energy to everyone. It's a fan of yours and it has been for so long. I've swear to God, I'm not trying to do an album plug right now. But I just feel lucky. I feel like whatever reason my purpose is to be here is like to connect with people.

And I've had the joy of being able to do it for 20 plus years. And some of that felt high and some of that felt low. But I genuinely feel like people are excited to meet me and say, "Hi, and have a quick moment." And it just feels normal.

Like it feels really like genuine always.

And I'm always met with that. And it's a really, you know, I'm not saying it's not a big responsibility sometimes. Being met with excitement and someone being like youthmen so much to me. It's a lovely feeling. Yeah, and now it's definitely there.

People have got stories of coming to your tours at 13 years old and some ridiculous things to you, like in my team. And me and you for a few moments and just having the best experiences. But I was thinking, yeah, you've meant this for 25 years. You've been so many things to so many people through the characters.

You've played the music. Of course, now you're new album.

“What's the version of Hillary Daffes that you want people to meet now at this point in your life?”

Part of the reason this, you know, returned to music is feeling so good to me is just that it's like feels completely like rooted in my truth and who I am and what I live with. And, you know, introducing people to my past 10 years and knowing that we are going to connect on many levels of experiences

and feelings and disappointments and celebrations and like everything in between. So that's kind of what I want them to know about me now and who I want them to meet. Like they have known me my whole life.

I have, you know, played a character that never grew up on TV.

You know, she stayed that same age and I'm not that I feel that that's like the public consensus around me anymore. I think people are pretty familiarized with me and who I am. But I care a lot less. And I feel like truth is more important than like politeness and all of that.

“So that's what the record feels like to me.”

And that's kind of just how I feel comfortable moving through the world. You know, I don't know if that's just with age or being a mom of four or being in a settled relationship or being in the industry for as long as I have with many ups and downs. Yeah, it's I feel like people are getting to me a mature real version of you. And one that is very accepting and embracing of this amazing journey you have had, which is so beautiful.

I think as humans we tend to have this perspective of like, well, now I am who I am. And then I've like given up everything and I feel like you have this beautiful way of being like, I love those experiences and they mean so much to me and now everyone gets to come on the journey with me. I'm hearing. I think that's true. I think that's absolutely true and I get to like keep the pieces that still work for me.

You know, also also compiled with like a messy security and all of those things are just like what makes up. The feeling accepting of all the things that come our way and that like we discovered on our path, you know.

I'm always fascinated by especially for people who've been in the public eye for so long like the experiences that they had that we were less aware of.

And I wanted to ask you what's a childhood experience you have that you feel defines who you are today. This is so random that like just like a huge standout memory for me and my childhood is like catching tadpoles and tick-tack boxes in New Bromphles and Texas. And it was something that we did after school like almost every day. It's a huge part of me feeling like I have my feet on the ground constantly even in this, you know, kind of out of body experience of a career that I've had and like navigated through.

“I think like being from Texas and being so normal and kind of grubby and dirty like is a part of my personality that has helped me just.”

Be that and not be kind of what can happen, you know, with 25 years in the industry. Yeah, that's almost what's helped you stay grounded. I think some of those like early childhood memories of having like a lot of like freedom and.

I really never thought that I'd raise my kids in LA and we're having a great time, but you know, I grew up very different than this and I'm happy to have those roots.

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I'm going to come to you for all the tips. Yeah, I have some. I'm still figuring it out, but I do know a lot. Yeah, I would say that I had some of my favorite people to grow up here like I have a couple of people on my team who obviously I'm born and raised in London and I only moved to LA eight years ago. But I have a couple of members of my team that were like born and raised in LA and like went to all the school and they're just like phenomenal human beings. Yeah, just like the sweet ass sort of the arguments and it's it's such a wonderful thing to kind of redefine what it means.

To be like an LA person. Yeah, well, like like you said if somebody's been in the industry for 25 years and have you.

“Did you ever think about that along the way like on the journey of like, what am I holding on to and what am I losing or what am I keeping? Did you have to think about those things?”

You lose anonymity. You know, like I've completely lost that. I've lived, you know, pretty much in the public eyes since I was 10 and probably around 15 was when I feel like the world started getting very like interested in what I was wearing who I was dating what I was eating. Where I was like that was an interesting kind of thing to navigate where I feel like I lost some serious innocence, you know, where you're just like, oh my god. And you get a lot of people to constantly talking about your life and seeing it on the cover of magazines and all of that stuff like that was a really strange period to also be like forming as a person privately.

And some of those like lines get blurred where you're like, I'm I am this, but I am this and I, you know, I think I've lost a lot and I think I've gained a lot like I wouldn't change it. Become very tough. Like it's, it's not, it's not an easy, it's not an easy industry.

“And I think it's not very easy for other people to deal with you in this industry.”

What do you mean by that part? I think it looks very like shiny and for other people to cope with how it looks is a tricky thing to navigate. Yeah, was there a time when everything felt like it was a dream from the outside like you're saying shiny, but for you you were having to really grapple with some stuff behind the scenes. Through all of it. Yeah.

Navigating people is like tricky and that's not, it wasn't like all negative. I think I had like a great time being a child actor. I had a great time like turning into a pop star like, but it is not easy behind the scenes and there's so much that goes on and and ways that you feel out of control and and now you know I have my own life and my family and my family that I've created and it's really nice to have that pillar. Yeah, because all the other stuff now, this is like fun. This I mean, no, it is hard work and to be honest, my friend, one of my, my friends is Megan trainer and she, she texts me the other day and she's like, I just want you to know you have made this look seamless and I'm so impressed, but I know that it's hard as hell.

I honestly was like, thank you so much for saying that I've had the stomach flu. I like flew all my kids out because I missed my family so much, but like they all have like coughs and stuff he knows is and I have to like sing on stage at night and we got trapped because of weather and then all my gear and my crew and my, like it's just all so crazy.

It's probably more comforting to hear that someone sees the hardship than you make it look easy. It's almost like hearing make it look easy. You're like, oh, but you know on the inside it's never that it's almost like the easier it looks the harder it must be. You were reminding me of I listen to this TED talk years ago and it was this model, I forget her last name and it's Cameron something and the TED talk is called looks on everything trust me, I'm a model and it's really fascinating and she's she's brilliant speaker and she really, she talks about kind of what you were just saying like so she shows images of what modeling she was doing and then she tells us what age she was and shows us a real picture of that time.

And obviously models are different because I with you people are seeing all of your life in one sense with the model you're only seeing the picture of them on a campaign and at that time we weren't really following models on social media or wherever else. And so she shows like this picture me at 14 like smiling with her parents and then this is a picture me at 14 modeling and she's like romantically posing with this guy and and then she's talking about how much of a disconnect there was between her real life and and the life that Adam as a model she was portraying.

Also when you're a model you don't get to be like I'm not really comfortable wearing that I don't really want to do that pose at your your model right so they're like no we're hiring you to.

This is what we wanted and then right it's a little different to be like an actor who's posing in a photo shoot. Yeah yeah that direction of just not having agency not having choice especially at that age and I was thinking about for you you've talked a very open about the eating disorders you had and just like what that look like and how.

“You know at the time so many people were pit against each other and the culture was different hopefully is different you can tell me if it is but that's what it felt like at the time what was it like for you to get comfortable.”

What was your own skin like what did that take like today you're saying like you know it's not easy it's still hard work but I'm kind of in control of it and charge like I feel better but yeah. Talk to me about some of the stops on that journey and what that looks like for so many people who may not grow up in the public I but also deal with the same challenges.

I feel like I've actually always had quite a bit of like self confidence and a good.

This is such a lame term like a good head on my shoulders but I have I you know I in my friend groups when I was a teenager I was like pretty confident. But like also mixed with the insecurities of like your teenhood and your your 20s or your early 20s like of course those normal things came up and then on top of it I was dealing with like yes. Commenting on my body at a young age and starting to get photographed and people like asking you how many times you weigh yourself or comparing you to people that were thinner than you or other girls you know in your like line of work and I definitely struggled for a little while there just.

to fit a certain mold and have control over something in my life thankfully that was like pretty short lived.

But definitely toyed with it during a time of like I'm on tour I'm filming a movie I'm doing you know like a lot of moving parts to my life and just trying to.

“Like form as a as a person honestly I think it took just time and bigger things happening in my life that like having children that took the spot of the other things that didn't mean as much to worry about and luckily.”

Those things felt easy to me to replace I think having success at such a young age makes making like work choices a little harder because there's like a pressure of a level of success. And I think once I did have kids and you know my phone wasn't ringing as much and I wasn't able to show up to work as much and say yes as often I ended up just saying no whole bunch. And not being worried about like sitting still and a lot of great things came from that decision and a lot of confidence came from that decision.

A lot of my steadiness has come from being in such a great stable relationship that's helped me a whole bunch get through some pretty heavy themes in my life. Yeah, I'm excited to hear about that more especially after what you told me earlier, but wait, wait, wait, wait. Where did that early confidence come from that good at on your shoulders and I love that and I think so many in the reason I ask is there's so many young people who listen to our show young parents with young kids who want their kids to have that good head on their shoulders and have that confidence.

“Where did that come from for you and how were you able to hold onto it?”

I think a part of it is who you are and then I think a whole bunch of it is your influence around you, you know, and I had a mom who was very supportive of a dream, you know, and she made me take it seriously because it was a big change for our life to like leave Texas and come to LA.

Our like livelihood wasn't weighted on whether or not I booked a job or not, you know, and I think that I found confidence in work and working, you know, but I think it was.

A little more weighted, but like when I see my son play a really good soccer game. I see his confidence building and when I see you know he is the captain of his football team at his school sorry soccer team at his school and he. Well, you can say that. You're like you have the right. Yeah, so yeah, you don't get it.

Sorry. I had to.

“I see his confidence built when I, you know, so I think it was just that like mine happened to be acting, but those things were confidence.”

But builders at times they were confidence strippers. I had a lovely support system. And I also got to be a kid like that wasn't all taken away. I had like normal friends and I felt the highs and lows of friendship and being confident not confident and dating and all of that stuff. I don't know.

I think some some of it you're born with and some of it is like what is what you're surrounded by and what you what's modeled for you. Yeah, we were talking about this a bit earlier off camera, but I was saying that.

I feel like a lot of confidence I get, when I was a kid came from the fact that I always knew my mom would catch me if I was to fall.

“So didn't come from feeling like I would never fall because I had challenges and got bullied or different things would happen anyway, right?”

As it doesn't any kids life, but I always knew my mom would catch me and that was like such an even as a grown man today. I'm like, I never called my mom. She would still catch me today like after all those years and it does build such a sense of confidence. And then I think the other side of what you're saying which I appreciate which I think we're finally realizing is that confidence does come from confidence. It comes from doing hard things and putting yourself out there and taking action and for you as acting for your son, it's playing soccer and those steps and seeing yourself go out there and play a game.

There's confidence that comes from building a skill or building competence that doesn't come from just sitting there and thinking about it or you know hoping that you naturally feel that way because people may not be born that way. And so both of those ideas resonate. Matt and I talk about this with the kids all the time and it could be as simple as like them going and making their own water instead of just being like, I'm thirsty and we're like, oh let me do it for you. You know like sometimes we do of course we we like our kids to we like to take care of our kids but you know we have the conversation a lot that's like the more they.

They do the more they can do and the more you can do the better you feel about yourself. You know so just being. Trying to hold them accountable to be competent for their level. Yes is something that I feel like helps form your confidence. Yes. And like we'll make us feel okay about sending them off into the world at some point. I remember I'm not recommending this and I'm not condoning this at all. I just run by our friends who are parents and and they had this particular methodology that they're training their kids with but.

We were sitting on one side of a table and hanging out and their child was like playing with a candle on the other side. And and my natural instinct I don't have kids and my natural instinct was to go take the kid away from the candle because obviously there's fire and the natural instinct. And they were like no no I just leave it like they're just playing and figuring out and I was like wow like that's really bold. Like she's wearing a ponytail. Yeah it's like wow like you know and I was very sure that she didn't share them growing in her out but she was like two years old or something.

Maybe three and I was just like yeah it's not again not recommending not condoning not saying that's good thing I'm just saying that. There is something to be said for being competent at your age and your level of experience and providing that to your children. It feels like you're what you've been saying about your relationship right now you've said it a few times like it's built such a foundation for you to go through so much. What is it that creates a foundation of strength and peace and a relationship for you from your experience.

I could talk about this for hours. That's a good thing right?

“I think it is time and just getting to the place where you can be in the trenches with someone and they can know everything and accept everything and help you move through things in the best way.”

I mean for me I think Matt and I always love hanging out with him I love he made me laugh like crazy.

He was such a he just kept showing up for me over and over again and I think coming out of you know being divorced and being a young mom and having a lot of stuff happened in my family life.

Yeah and someone who was like totally nice to me wanted to like have like healthy relationship and and just like keep showing up I guess.

“And so it took us a little while to let me a little while to just like I think accept something good.”

And it wasn't until we had banks which is our seven year old that I feel like I really like could settle into the relationship when I realized like the kind of parents we were and how we were doing. As parents together I really remember like just feeling like my shoulders could be like. And it was really like really a nice weight off. And then like our relationships from there continued to just be like emotional shelter you know instead of. dramatic like craving those younger dramatic highs and lows and just feeling better in the like steady which also comes with challenges and I talk about those challenges a lot on luck or something.

It's nice to be where we are right now and know that some of those highs and lows feel like a snapshot of a time frame instead of a continual struggle. I love what you said about that feeling that I think we all go through and you find your person I've been with my wife for 13 years now I'm married for 10. Congrats.

“And thank you and yeah it's our 10th wedding anniversary this year and so it's really exciting to celebrate but like when I think about it that way it's so it's.”

I love what you said about this point that when you first meet someone who actually loves you and it's kind to you and.

It's really hard to accept. Both based on how others have treated us and how we've treated ourselves feel like it's a mix of both of those experiences right because it's almost like you're wrestling with it. I don't know how I felt before in the past is that how you describe it how would you describe it. Yeah and you want to like poke holes in it to make sure it's like steady enough you know that's what I felt like I was doing I think it added an extra pressure that I had a child already and like I didn't want to expose him to something that wasn't like for sure.

Going to stick and work out for me. Yeah I mean I'm just feel so settled in a good way like so happy that I have like got your intuition works and it's good. Because it is really it is to commit your life to someone is a very big choice. Yeah it's only after you do it and you spend a few years together you really have big ears because like when I made that commitment I actually don't think I had a clue what that commitment. Right and then years later you're like okay now I'm actually living that commitment when I made it that day on my wedding day it was kind of just like.

It felt naturally felt real but I almost hadn't really experienced what it meant to say that if that makes any sense. How old were you when you that married we were I was 28 and my wife was 25 and so pretty young yeah yeah pretty. I wonder if it's like that by design yeah what do you mean like. Because marriage is like so hard and it's such a big choice that I wonder if you do it like it is slightly younger stage of your life or else you wouldn't do it because it's like a crazy. It's a crazy thing to commit it is it is yeah me and my wife talked about that before I feel like it was older competitor people we knew back in London.

Yeah we got married late. Oh you did. Compared to a lot of our friends you got married very then you guys move to LA and you're like oh no one's. Yeah we were doing it like oh wait there's no rules this is right like you know we got friends like marrying it for you. Yeah we kids if we like no tears and it was nice it was refreshing actually from coming from a culture where people were getting married at 22 23 24 25 and being able to have that space and.

But we've talked about that many times we were like oh my gosh we've grown so much and my wife especially she feels like she's been so many different versions of herself in the last 13 years that. It's amazing and speaks volumes of your relationship that she could be so many versions of herself in a marriage. Do you know what I mean like take on. You said lots of different versions of herself it's very hard to like grow I think a lot of the growth that I did outside of motherhood. Happened before I was in a relationship or in between being in a relationship which is like kind of just being alone with yourself.

Yeah right so basically saying that I must be amazing amazing I'm so patient that's correct.

So flexible and like I didn't want to like help the ego.

“So like thank you. That's what I was getting at.”

Yeah my wife is so lucky that I've been like so patient. It's been the other way around many many occasions but marriage is so hard. It is so hard to grow with someone that is so hard to continue to grow it so hard to grow at a different pace it's so hard to grow.

I don't love to talk about this too much because you know I felt like in that time of my life I was so ready to get married.

I was in something that I really adored. I was ready to have a baby I was ready to have something of my own you know that I could just like focus on and it be mine and like. My life felt out of my hands a little bit at that moment and I just wanted to like shrink it. I've been pretty open about you know being a divorce person and what that's like and being a single mom and being you know kind of like choosing to like end a family is a huge. A huge horrible choice to make but I also co-parent that with with that person and we do a great job mostly sometimes there's bumps and frustrations.

But again, abs and flows right but like we adore this person that we created and we do a great job this is like before you know conscious uncoupling was like a coined a term and we really tried to do that I really tried to do that. Like you just grow. Yeah. And I think I did.

You struck me in someone who like follows your intuition you even said it earlier when you were talking about your current relationship you're like I'm so glad my intuition is right.

Yeah. And then I was like and the album's called Luck or something and so I want to ask you what's the relationship between intuition and luck and has your career in journey and even this inspiration behind this album how much of it has been luck and how much of it has been intuition.

“I think a lot of it has been intuition and I think that's falls into the category of the or something part of it where I'm like actually I deserve some credit here.”

I feel incredibly lucky. I don't know why me but I do know that I've also worked really hard and I know that I've had to go through a lot. The title is pretty loaded and can mean and does mean a whole bunch of different things to me like what I just said but also. It's a coy way of like responding to a question I'm constantly asked which is like how are you so normal how did you get through this and I'm like. Luck or something.

Got it. But I think the or something is the real weighted portion. It's good when you think you're lucky and everyone else realizes it was hard work.

“It's kind of what I think is like the accurate assessment.”

Anyone that I know that I believe it's achieved something amazing. When I say achieve something amazing I think it's it could be being grounded in a difficult industry. It could be something athletically successful. Like whatever you define as greatness or success or winning. It's the problem becomes whenever an else views it is lucky and you view as hard work and it's like beautiful when like you said I see myself as lucky.

Like I don't know why me like that's beautiful and then if we can but it's always the other way around.

It's almost like yeah people like to think I got asked that the other day I was asked. Someone's asking me in an interview like why do you think people listen to you and why do they connect to you and I was like. To be honest I always struggle with that question because I feel really grateful and fortunate that anyone even cares to listen to me. I remember speaking of rooms of like three people and so I feel completely humbled by where it's gone. And then I was like at the same time like I think it's because I've been doing this for a long time.

I've done it for longer offline than I have online. Yeah like honestly when I zoom out and like it would be hard for you to answer this way but I'm like probably because you're smart. You know what I mean probably because you're smart probably because I think that you have a gift. And you can connect with people I feel like I have a similar gift like that like some for some reason I resonate with people in a certain way.

“And but like you have to take credit for what you build and you also can feel lucky and you also can feel immense gratitude and you know how did I get here.”

Feelings but like you're also smart and you're good at what you do. I appreciate that I appreciate coming from you but I like what you're saying about the idea of all these things can come exist and that's why I like the luck or something. I think you're so right like we're allowed to feel all of these emotions like there's pride there's gratitude there's luck there's intuition there's confusion even still. And I'm sure it is insecure is and and everything and it's almost like when we're forced to be like tell me the one thing that changed your life and you're like like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so I like what something is the new new answer now.

That's what I'm going to use every time. I'm going to yeah if I'm going to use it now I'm going to encourage lots of people to use it because yeah and and I honestly I we've only met briefly but like the. The impact you've had on people proves that there's so much hard work so much talent such a gift like so much you know because you can't have that.

I wanted to jump into your album because I've been getting to listen to it which I've really enjoyed which is so wonderful for me and I'm I'm very deep into because I love words and I love spoken word I love poetry I love I took out some lyrics that really. I felt were beautiful and powerful so I may read your own lyrics back to you so I can't sing them back to you because I can't sing to say my life but I may read them back to you but I wanted to ask you about this one so you say in your song weather for tennis.

“Are you saying I'm a seasoned apologist for the people who I love I'm an amateur psychologist the key to everyone's handcuffs keep the peace because I'm a kid of divorce and you're the starter of wars and there's no winning in yours.”

Where does that show up in your life today like where where did that come from and where does it show up. I think it's talking about being the person who's smooth silver and makes everything right and extends themselves and continues to show up and try to make things easy for everyone and you're talking about being in a relationship that is going to keep playing a game and. It's the end of the song you finally realize like I'm going to put it into this the message behind it is a feeling that a lot of people can relate to of just.

It's exhausting to to keep up always being the one to make things right or to carry the burden or to make the call or to.

The bigger person and keeping the peace because you're a kid of divorce is obviously very relatable people don't need too much explaining on that one. I think it's definitely a role that I play in in my life and that had this amazing idea for the song we we started playing tennis together and I think that it was definitely inspired by just like the game of tennis and kind of applying it to a relationship a romantic relationship that's probably not going to work out. Not further with the tennis analogy for me the chorus is if it ain't the weather for tennis then I guess we can argue until dinner time.

So it's just kind of about a game played and a cycle that is constantly like repeating yeah right before we started writing the record together maybe a year before.

I was like if we're going to last the long haul we need sport we need to like learn how to play a sport together so we picked up tennis and I also forced him to learn how to ski which is like one of his favorite things to do now.

“And we love to ski but I think that I think the chorus was inspired for him because we had started playing the game of tennis.”

And people have different versions of this right like you meet comedians who did it through making it run laugh and then that that becomes their journey and that's very on the nose example but. All of us have played some sort of role of being mediators I often feel is that I do what I do today because I immediate my parents marriage growing up. And so I was the kid who was like at 10 years old like listening to both sides and helping them connect and trying to find the points at which they could relate to each other and and I don't regret doing that I'm actually very happy I did there gave me great skills for life.

My parents divorced when I was around 18 and I feel like that was a really hard time. Because I was like kind of individual and then you like have a you're like did they just stay together to get us to this point and now you have guilt that they were like unhappy or just like so many different things.

“I gave up being the piece make of it when I became around 21 so I remember that time vividly in my life where I was like giving that up making the choice to be like I'm not doing that anymore.”

It was tough because there were certain members of my family that felt that I was giving up my responsibility.

You're like this actually wasn't my job in the first place correct and so so that was the I remember that being the tension where I was like I love my parents.

I'm grateful for everything they've given me and really valuable and I wouldn't be who I am today if I didn't have this situation that I grew up in. I think now's the time that I've spent however many obviously I didn't start meeting when I was four years old but I've spent whatever ten years in my life trying to figure this out and I'm not capable. So there was a part of me that felt like a failure this part of me that felt like you know like that I was right and I was free to give up the meeting the piece part that you're talking about.

But I think that's what's so interesting is that I gave up that responsibility of 21 even though I saw the decision attend.

I think it was really hard for them to like be honest with each other and there was a lot of like fighting and it wasn't that like they could hang out and be in the same room and so when it came for me getting divorced I was like I'm not going to have that.

“We're going to be like do holidays together as much as we can and not that it was always easy but it felt way easier than the alternative.”

You know yeah yeah so yeah I don't. I don't my dad and I don't really have much of a relationship and we don't speak very often it's hard because I think there's not a whole bunch of answers and it's. You kind of hear one side and then try to take from it what you believe and then. You know the same on the other and I it's really it's really hard I think if a family breaks apart. Very dramatically it's hard to find your way back.

Sometimes and some people want to and some people don't. Yeah it's like as though you get you realize you've got to answer the questions yourself and find. You've got to kind of find the full stop by yourself kind of like the point that you're making this lyric of just. I've decided I'm not taking on this responsibility and whatever in whatever way you played it.

Do you feel sometimes do you feel free of it or is it is it always like something that.

No might you play that role you're always kind of conditioned to play that role.

“I think it's a little bit like muscle memory where you lean on it and then you have to remember some of the.”

Do therapy or wherever you find your solace like you have to keep pushing those good habits or good things to say to yourself. To cope and make different choices. It's almost like that conditioning pulls you back and then you've got to find this new thought process almost like learning new lines as an actor and going well. This is the new life that I want to build and even what you just said about how you knew that when you went through you didn't want to mirror some of those behaviors and you're like no we're going to do we're going to do holidays together.

And we're going to change things because that is that must that is tearing away that muscle memory and going I'm going to change it. Yeah yeah. There's another.

Amazing lyric that I love that I took apart here.

So this one. Okay. Don't tell me what song it's from. Okay. I like to play. Okay. Oh, I didn't know we were okay if you want to play. We're going to play some games later. Okay. Okay, but you can I won't tell you what song it's about. Okay, so the first question will be what song is it from after I read. Okay, like this. This is good. I should have done it like that.

“We come from the same home, the same blood, a different explanation of the same thought people ask if I've seen you and honestly I hate it because the truth is that I knew.”

But there's no way to relay it, not if we don't talk. Yeah. So that's from we don't talk. And this is a hard one for me. This is a really tough one.

My sister and I don't speak. And I think in my adulthood, I've come across more and more people that are having this experience. And as painful as it feels to share, when I decided to make this record, I could only talk about the things that I've gone through. Like there would be no purpose to make a record after 10 years. Then to be.

Then to face, you know, what has been like. So. That's my truth. And I really worked hard to. I'm just speaking about my experience, you know, it's very hard to be.

You know, a person who's like had their life exposed in the industry for 25 years and we were talking about. You know, that earlier tiptoeing around kind of what the outcome has been for some of it. But yeah, that is it's a very vulnerable song and it's a very raw part of my existence. And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now. Sorry.

I'm sorry. There's a tissue there's one here. Yes, I've locked and loaded because this happens. Thank you for being so. Vulnerable and open with me because it's kind of imagine how hard it is.

Yeah, and so sorry that you never are going through that.

I'm sure it's hard on you both in different ways.

I agree with that.

It's definitely a raw nerve.

Everybody has their reasons. And there's. Relationships are difficult even with your family, especially with your family. Yeah, I think it's easier when you aren't connected that way. Yeah, and it seems like you yen for that relationship back because you say I need to.

Like it's not it's not something that you're kind of throwing away or giving up as you said. There's you there's a part of you that seems hope it changes. That's the person I grew up with the only one. I really hope she. I really hope she hears the song.

Yeah, I hope she hears it and I hope it's at least the beginning of. Some way back to whatever it is that's good for both of you. And then you have desire because whatever that looks like.

“Yeah, that's what's hard with families that we assume that good looks like.”

Everything's close and everything's perfect. And that's what we think when we're growing up and we get old and we get away.

It doesn't it doesn't always look like that.

You desire like in family like this picture. And that's not reality a lot of the times for people. Yeah. And so you're like you get to a certain age. I mean, I have my own family who is put first no matter what.

And I've gone to make different rules for my family. But yeah, you you get to a certain age where you're like, oh, that doesn't feel good or that's not right. Or that's you know, and it's very hard to think of family in the way that you grow up thinking of family when. Yes. So much shifts and changes.

And I love my family in certain ways in certain memories. And also like huge struggles have, you know, occurred.

“You're not like putting that one responsibility on anybody involved, you know, assuming some myself.”

So, you know, it's it's very complicated. Yeah, I think family is complicated. Absolutely right. Thank you for being so open and honest, the, you know, to the point that we can tell just how hard this is for you and how heavy it all is. And I'm sure everyone is listening right now is thinking that. God, I know exactly what relationship in my life makes me feel that way, whether it's with a sibling of father, parent or family member.

And so yeah, thank you for going there. I'm going to do one more, you can guess the song. One more lyrics. I hope I'm not making you cry. Oh, the hate to be the one making you cry.

That is not my intention whatsoever. And I, and I respect you too much to you. Do you tell me how you feel about stuff like this? Yeah. This is the last lyric we're doing.

So we went promise. Okay. What I find fascinating about you is your lyrics are so real and raw and clear. And they are so resonant with anyone and everyone who's going through similar things through you, which I think many, many people are.

And so often when I read lyrics, they're so metaphorical, but you're like poetic, but real. And so this one, you can guess the song. So the lyric goes, I wish I could sleep on planes. And then my father would really love me. He'd show up on my wedding day and tell my family they're also lucky.

He told me how he wish he stayed and that he never meant to disappoint me.

But till then, I'll exist as the optimist. I think more just being very vulnerable and open about what it's like to be. And a family that, you know, your parents aren't together and you don't have, you know, relationships with both your parents. It's devastating and it feels, I don't think it doesn't matter what age you are. You want your parents to feel like they care about you.

And big portion of my existence hasn't felt like that.

“I don't know if that's the truth, but that's how it feels.”

And so that's just what I'm sharing in that song, the optimist. I love that song so much. I think I live in this world that, like, I'm really happy. I'm really like goofy, I'm really silly. A lot of hard things have happened to me.

And I think that with the album, I wanted to share that emotional depth and that. Some of that heaviness. But like disguised with, you know, a very joyful track. And I think that's like very much how I like to exist in the world. It's like this balance of these two things can exist at the same time.

And, you know, the record is a pop record. It feels like you want to blast in in your car, at least I do. That's when I knew I was done, you know. But they're like life topics. And life is really challenging, really hard.

Really tricky to make the right calls and the wrong calls, all just a process.

And I feel like the record has just so much of that in it, you know.

It's like a feels like a capture of 10 years of different things flying on you. And I know you have this other song that we all love. I'm not really any more lyrics. I know you have this other song that we all love called mature. I was just thinking as you were saying that there's so much maturity in being able to be like,

hey, I'm fine and goofy and at the same time there's all this stuff going on and like.

“And I think that's everyone who's growing up with you and is experiencing all of that too.”

And I feel like only knowing one side, especially through someone that people have followed and continued to follow for so many years. You feel less alone. People are going to feel less alone when they listen to this album. But in a good way, not just like in their feels, but like you said blasting it out.

It's a part of like I love that juxtaposition of making people feel less alone, but also making them have fun. I love that juxtaposition too. And I love that word because playing the few little shows that I played before I go out this summer was such a cool feeling of like. The audience one is like my age. So they're all adults now and we've grown up together.

And it was like I'm playing these old songs that feel so good to people and hold such a sweet like innocent part of their being. You know, some like that meant something to them at a very like pivotal eight coming of age. And to get to hold that memory for people is such a like badge for me.

“But then also to meet them with like the new songs and kind of experiences that life is provided.”

Was a really cool experience to have them sing like these songs that they.

The hat that they have from the record, you know, to sing them and us be adults and be connecting on that level is like really really powerful.

So it's like this really cool. Floaty feeling of like this thing that feels really good that we get to lean on and like celebrate from our past, but you know. Be like me too, you know, in the now that's as so much about you because I think that you saying that I want people to have that experience that meant so much to them even though. You have transformed you have grown you have changed you have gone through all of this that just peaks. Like volumes of your character honestly because it's it's so easy for people to want to like be like.

That was me down I'm going to leave the behind this new me now and that's generally what we do is human to that yeah that was that and it was cool and. And it's like for you to be like no I just love doing it because it brings people so much joy and I get to share this part of them like that juxtaposition truly is.

“Yeah, I just want to thank you for that because I think it shows just how much you have in your heart of wanting to make people happy and wanting to.”

Finding them to have these moments and I think it you know I don't know if it would have been possible for me to do 10 years ago. I don't know why now all of a sudden I really don't know how to answer like what shifted and what made me find such peace with my past you know. Like but I'm really proud of it now and I get to go and celebrate it and that feels like I get to be a part of it with everybody instead of trying to like shy away from it and be like. I'm an adult or I'm changing. I'm different or that's not me anymore. Like that is a part of me and it will always be like a part of me and it feels really fun to celebrate that with people that it meant something to.

So we all we all go through pain and then there's transformation and maybe at 10 years ago there was some transformation happening in your life. But now you're coming back as a celebration and a celebration is like how we look back at our whole life like I went to I went to 370 of birthdays last year and I can look to life like totally different because I'm 38. Yeah, yeah it was the same it and I went to under these 370 or birthdays two of them I'm very close with one of them and becoming close to it and they had like their kids grandkids they had all their friends that were important a different phase of their life and everyone gave speeches and like it was I nice I'm a sucker for this stuff like I love to love love and friendship and all this stuff.

Yeah and and I was like wow like when you're 70 like life just looks so different and it's what you just said it's like you're at a point where you're celebrating your you know under your 70 is odd and not not saying that. But that's a spirit of like a lot of chapters you know that it's really weird people will be like oh what is what do you remember from this time and like.

What do you remember from 25 years ago like certain things stand out but yeah that's that's amazing definitely when you get to 70.

I was show up and you know speak for you and have relationships as long as you can have it at 70 you know cool yeah really cool has.

Making music and writing being your therapy has that been your outlet has that what I would you describe making this album is it is a therapy is it transformative is it is it celebration what what is it for you and what does it give you.

“I think that what really triggered me wanting to make an album was having my fourth child and being like I love motherhood I'm obsessed with my kids obviously I wouldn't have four kids if I wasn't like.”

Deeply utterly obsessed with like the way they run through the house the way they breathe the way we like just everything about the smallest things are the biggest things like obsessed with them. I can't stay here and just be like in this because I know so much else about myself that has to be like stretched so I think I got really jealous actually of Matt. I had tons and I was like still nursing and you know busy with the other kids and like aren't running our household and all of that all of that responsibility which I actually genuinely love.

But I can't that can't be like it for me so he was like going he has an amazing studio he was like going to the studio every day and just like getting to have a long time.

And getting to like sit with things that like bump around his head and in his head and like make him tick and like purged you know his like creativity and create and I was just like. I wrote that to and he was like cool like are you serious like it's not like for ten years I've been writing songs I've been like deep in motherhood it's been way easier to like film a TV show which I also love doing but like. The other who is a place where you just can completely focus on and throw all of your energy to and then like forget yourself.

So being able to know that he has like the front row seat to my whole entire life and then sitting and like figuring out what this is going to sound like and what I'm going to talk about felt so safe and so natural. We have such a busy life it wasn't like there was just endless sessions where I'm like we're writing for eight hours like a lot of it was like a text and I would like I'm going to get the kids from school. What if we what if it's this line if it's what if this happens instead of that you know like it's just like quick phone calls and a conversation in the kitchen while making plates for the kids like it just happened really.

Naturally and like a wave that it would happen like this with like the way that we live together.

“That sounds crazy chaotic and beautiful as it is that's what a way to make an album together and what a way to you know experience.”

You have the experience that you are having and then going off and creating when you when you when you've just we got mother it's it's so real and that the same time it's just like so wonderful to hear about it from you like it's and and I know we were speaking about it earlier when you walked in and just. It's like dropping the kids of it sports and like picking them up and even today I think when you arrived you're like yeah I'm going to get to pick up the kids after this or whatever you know and I like it's so wonderful and obviously you just said like you wouldn't have for kids if you if you didn't what is.

What would you say. Is your favorite way of showing love to the kids one thing that my mom was with me and my dad as a young child really playful. Extremely silly and playful and I have that from them and I love that and I love to play tricks on my kids.

“I love to like be silly and get down on their level and just be really playful with them and I think that's a huge important part of like the parent child relationship.”

And then time time spent talks deciding to make an album and go on tour I'm going to miss so much that I've really tried to be there for and it could make me cry again thinking about you know maybe my four year old has. Her school Tea Party this Friday and I'm not going to be there and like for banks I threw the tea party was like three other moms and was there like and so you're like this feels off balance there. But I will make it fair I'll find a way to make it fair and so I think just showing up for your kids and giving them the time even if it's.

Matt and I drove him together because we were both at the studio and then we like walked the track and watched him play soccer it's like we got our time. Not all the kids got their time but two of them did and you just try to like find the balance and be like okay. I'm not choosing towns this day I'm choosing Maymay I'm going to go watch her dance or I'm going to you know you just you just find a way to make it work and try to be in tune with what your kids need and keep conversations open and that's that.

Do you think about something like when they get old I'm going to talk to them about how like I wasn't a this pipe where we did this thing or did you think about it that way or not really is that my completely missing the point. The things that kids stick that stick with them is so devastating. My son. That's so painful. It's so painful like my son.

Please I need to learn. Okay we were at Disney Disneyland this is okay he's 13 now so he must have been like eight or nine and Disney is a big deal. We happen to go like every year but it's a big deal and he would not get on this roller coaster and I was like. Everyone's going on it like you can't know until you try like I ended up pushing it too hard making him cry and it like he wrote like a. A thing about it at school.

And all the time now we can joke and he loves to ride roller coasters and I'm like I told you I told you you how to just list to me that you would know and we could have been having more fun since this age instead of this age.

“You know like we obviously like raise each other a ton but he's always like remember that time he made me cry because I wouldn't get on the roller coaster and I'm like.”

I really didn't write a new thing in school now but how he loves roller coasters and how it starts from that point. They don't see it like that.

I'm going to tell him you said that's that's that's the only fan but did he ride the roller coaster the first time after you know.

Oh so he wasn't even that bad then. He was like you put some you tried to put too much pressure on me blah blah blah. Now like we just went to Disney World for Christmas with the kids for three days it was so insane. Four kids Disney World three days. How are you doing that?

On Christmas Day we flew it was crazy. That's the best Christmas. But now I put no I'm like. You ride it when you're ready. I'm not going to be like napped as that.

You're reminding me that my niece and nephew and nephew is like his 10 years old now. He was like two years old when this happened barely. Yeah maybe two years old we were in the pool at Christmas time. We were taking the family away and we were in a pool and he was in one of those doughnuts. He needed those and he had his own bands on everything because obviously he can't swim.

Yeah he can't swim he's tiny and so it was me him and his dad hanging out in the pool. And our stitches. What happened? So I was playing this game with him which he loved. He might say this.

I was playing this game with him where I was pretending to be a little sharp coming at him. And I would come out and I'd surprise him and he'd laugh and whatever and so I'd keep doing that. One time I do it he falls through the hoop like the doughnut. For some reason he got so scared that his whole body just fell through it. Yeah.

“He meant his dad got him out immediately like he was fine. All he does is tell this story. He's like see you remember when you knew.”

And you're like you can't possibly remember. I'm like dude you weren't even like you were there but you do not have a memory for this. He's like no I remember that moment when you were trying to be a shark. And now he's teasing me with it like it's not like he's actually upset.

For the first few years I thought he's never going to be my friend again.

I was really sad about it. But it's your so right like it's so true kids is just when the fun games take a turn and you're like, Oh no now he's scarred. And he's ten years old and now he uses it against me and I'm like, I've got loads of stories on you. Like I've got so many stories on you being silly when you're young and we've got video of it too.

But now you're so right kids and I guess that's what's so hard with children. You think you're doing things right and then you know you never know.

“And that's why I think that overriding love is just so valuable right because you can't.”

You can't predict how they're going to react to one of these experiences I guess.

Right and you also just don't know that you're always doing things right and I think that's okay.

I have a lot of confidence in being a parent just because you know the more times you do something. You're like, oh I know what this looks like. Oh I know how to do this thing. But I've never been a parent of a 14 year old and I've never been the parent of a eight year old girl. Like all of these things are just it's a constant checking in updating one thing that works for this kid doesn't work for this kid.

I'm so grateful for that.

“My favorite we have these big doors that open in the in the back of our house and we just will like open up all the door.”

We have to put we have cats now so we have to put the cats away. But we just like open all the doors up and it's just like kids running in and out and soccer and the backyard and everybody playing and jumping on the trampoline or swimming and I just am so appreciative of them and. And what we've built such a such a haven. That was we thought she was a boy she was the only kid that we didn't find out when we were having because we had her in the pandemic and thank we were all looking for ways to entertain ourselves and surprise ourselves.

Yeah for sure so we she was a. She was like gender was a surprise and we thought for sure she was going to be a boy it was a girl and both of our moms were born and may so we named her may may or may we call her may may she just came to the realization that her nickname is longer than her real name and she's like really confused by why we would do that that makes a lot of sense. And she introduces herself as may may but she's like why is banks not like banks banks and like what is going on here they're very funny.

Yeah I don't think we wanted like traditional names but we also didn't want like names that you know they didn't feel comfortable with as adults so we hope we nailed it but they also have more normal middle names. Okay right. I like them that's so fun. Thank you. I feel like they I haven't met them before but like they all sound like they have a personality based on their name. They all have a very big personality. I like that the girls names the two banks and towns they kind of have like last name sounding names which feels strong for girls and that was kind of my goal.

Nice. I love it. Hillary you've been amazing to talk to truly. I've loved this conversation I feel like I've learned so much about you I feel like I feel closer to you just from how open you been, how vulnerable you been. We have a couple of games as I promised you segments to finish off. I love again. I'm going to bring them out now.

So there's a couple that we invented recently that we absolutely love and so this question this there's two games the first one is called would you rather.

And it's the Disney era edition. Oh yeah. Usually you play with like disgusting food or like horrible things but let's go. This is a lot easier. So would you rather have to say hi. I'm Hillary Darfur and you're watching Disney Channel every time you introduce yourself or have the lazy Maguire animated character in your head at all times.

Oh, she lives in there rent free baby. I think I would have her living. I mean I've accepted her in my head. So I'm choosing the latter. Okay. That makes sense. That's good. We can't see it. You'd have to do it.

Okay. Second one. Walk every red carpet now in low-rise jeans or a scarf worn as a top. No. No. So my option is low-rise jeans on the red carpet or a scarf as a top.

The dress skirt is a top. Oh my gosh. That is so impossible. This is forever. This is for eternity. This is, yeah. Yeah. This would be rather. Let's say for the next 12 months. Let's say for the next 12 months.

That works for me. I'm going low-rise jeans. Okay. There we go. I was being kind.

“Would you rather have come clean play every time it starts raining?”

Or have wake up as you're alarm clock every morning? Oh my god. Well, I feel like every time it's raining and I open Instagram. Come clean as playing. In your head.

Yeah. But the way that I'm going to skirt around this is that we live in L.A. And it doesn't rain very often. So I'm choosing that one. Good answer. These are great responses. I love that. Okay. Very good. There's so many more. I'll have to send you some of these because I need to get through some of these questions. But this is the last one of the, would you rather Disney edition?

Okay. Would you rather bring back ultra thin eyebrows? Or foundation over the lips? You definitely didn't come up with that one. Didn't.

Whoa. I think... That's so tough.

“I think I'm going to go with ultra thin eyebrows.”

I think so. I hope like the 12 months rule can be applied to the natural eyebrows. I'm going to go thin eyebrow.

I never want foundation on my lips again.

That was like a must before I went out. I would just like blot out my lips.

That's fascinating, isn't it?

Heads 12 months make sense because you never know.

Work could come back. That's true.

“Okay. This game's called Gut Reaction. So you have to just finish the sentence.”

Okay. One thing my kids make fun of me for is... Getting gotten by AI. What do you mean? Oh, you literally be like this is real.

Oh, yeah. I'm like, look at this. My son's like... Cats don't jump on trampoline. Oh, that's... you're insane. I'm like...

Right. Got it got it got it. It is getting scary. I know. I know it is easy to like giggle about it right now. And some of the things that we see are like funny.

But no, it's... I don't like it at all. Yeah, yeah, it's scary. All right. The most cringe moment of me on the internet. I wish could be erased is...

Oh, gosh. The most cringe moment of me on the internet. Honestly, I probably felt like it was the with love dance for a long time. But now... You owned it.

We're back baby. Back. I love that. It's been all over my TikTok feed. Like I've not seen anything else.

I've been showing it to everyone. I'm like, yeah, it's all I've been seeing and sharing. The first art... I'm not joking. First artist you'd want next to you on a long tour bus ride. Probably Taylor Swift because I bet those buses are nice.

Oh, you want to go on her bus. Yeah, this was on your tour bus. Oh, okay. Well, she would probably give me all the tips for a tour because she hasn't stopped. Absolutely.

There's... I mean, tours are hard work.

I've never done anything nearly as long as any musician on the planet.

I did like 40 shows two years ago. Yeah. This is insane. I know. It's really hard.

Unbelievable. I was just gone for 12 days and I was like, cry. When I just... like, saw my pillows on my bed. And I was like, oh, it's going to be a good night. I can my pillows back.

[laughs] Hillary, we end every episode of on purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Okay. So, Hillary Duff, these are your final five.

“The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?”

Do you, because everyone else has taken. Great advice. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Never grow up.

Third question.

Your favorite thing about Matt that you don't say to him enough.

He's really handsome. There you go, Matt. Yeah. Can play this as many times as you want. I know.

He's really... I mean, I just... I love looking at him. And I think that he's such a funny guy that it's easy to just be like, yeah, he's so funny. He's like the best. It's easy to... he keeps us laughing. Like, he's just like really...

a fun... funny, like, goose. But he's so handsome. Fourth question. Will we ever get a Lizzie McGuire reboot? I can't answer this in one sentence.

But I can say that right now it's not in the cards. I have a world tour to go on. And that's going to take me a few years, I think. But when I think about Lizzie, you know, I was really excited thinking about her at 30.

And going through 30 year old things. And now I can't really see her at 40. Maybe I could start to see her around the 55, 60. And I think that's interesting. That is interesting.

I'd love to say that. I love it. All right, very good answer. Fifteen final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow,

what would it be? I wanted to say, like, loving each other, but you don't have to love everyone you come into contact with. And you don't have to, like, trust everyone. And you don't also don't have to accept, like, that's the other thing,

like, accept everyone.

“But I think that there needs to be some guidelines.”

You know what I mean? Like the basic things. Yes. I wish there was just acceptance of, like, everybody being, like, created equal.

And accepted for skin tone or gender or whatever. But there has to be some rules in place. Or, like, bad people. Yes. So I guess, like,

using common sense with acceptance. Mm. It'll be tough. Thank you so much. So excited for everyone to hear your album. So excited. I hope I get to come see you on tour.

I'm really excited to see you perform live. Come on. Let's go. I'll keep this updated. I would love that. This is such a joy.

Such a treat. Thank you for being so open. I hope you got to share everything you wanted to share. Yeah. I hope you feel seen and heard.

So grateful that you trusted me and trusted our platform to come and be so open. So thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. No, I really enjoyed it. Yeah. Thank you.

If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion. There's blessing in the breaking.

even if it's just road rage. This is an eye-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.