KEKE PALMER: "At 17, I Had a Midlife Crisis”

"Very good!"

"The story is very good."

"That's a lot." "That's true." "The story is a computer built for Kozmani. Chip financed Chip, such a thing." "Mega, but the story is more complicated."

"No, just take a picture of the real story and make it." "Very good, very good." "Very good, very good." "With such a story, it's about 30 years old." "I've been waiting for this since you interviewed me."

"I've made my life a living hell." "Because I was like, where is she going to take this conversation?" "Only Kiki could put me in this uncomfortable place." "Oh my gosh."

"Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute."

"And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it." "And yeah, I'll talk to you soon." "Kiki Palmer, welcome to On Purpose." "Hey, I'm so happy to talk to you. I just know we're going to have such a great conversation." "I just love it."

"Kiki, I wanted to start with, like, you do so much. I just talked about it." "Film, television, podcasting, music, businesswoman, entrepreneur, mother." "When do you feel the most like Lauren?" "When I allowed myself to have uncomfortable feelings."

“"Because I think that that's what I've been working on getting back to because being able to do all the stuff I do."”

"And on the road to success, I was trying so hard to just be the best." "Be in a good mood." "Be ready." "So the part that really got pushed down was the human part."

"The one that just sometimes is sad and doesn't feel very strong."

"That doesn't feel very capable." "So what I'm learning is the more that I honor the space for that." "And when I tell people, like, "Hey, I could probably push it into this." "But I would rather not." "That's the part of me that has not gotten a lot of air."

"So I feel really good when I'm honoring the fact that I might have a large capacity, but it's okay if I can't give it out right now." "Just that part ever win or does it lose?" "It's getting better now." "Most of my life, it's one, the part that just pushes through." "That's been guiding everything to the point of being disembodied in moments."

"And I think that having my son brought me to a place of presence as kids do." "Where I started to realize that that maybe that disconnection was happening." "And so now I'm more active in being like, "It's okay if you don't have it." "It's okay if you don't feel like I had something I was supposed to do after this." "But my dad got pushed back and I was late coming here."

"I said, "I can't do it." "The old me would have still tried to push through." "I don't mean to say to old me, but part of me that was eventually thinking that what other people wanted was greater than what I needed for myself." "That side of me is, you know, I'm aware of it now." "And so I can say, "Look, I don't have it."

"And that makes me feel really truly confident and secure." "That's hard to do when you're winning." "Oh my gosh."

“"It's hard to do when you're losing because you feel like you have to get going and you've got to get started."”

"And then it's hard to do when you're winning because you're like, "Oh, I've got to keep this going." "The momentum, the momentum game that we play with ourselves." "It can be tough, it can be tough." "But it's so funny how it does that because being good with yourself is actually what's going to make you better for those things." "At least that I've found."

"But we trick ourselves into thinking that, by force, is how we get everything." "And there might be some truth to it. There's a time and a place for everything where it's like I got a house like I got a house." "But you got to be also like, let me not be so in the hustle that I don't feel when the frequency has changed." "And now is the time for rest." "And so it's like, you know, sometimes we can step out of the alignment when we so busy thinking that there's one way to get it done."

"Now, so well said, and you mentioned that you talked about your son who we got so much of in this adorable ADP." "So I was like, oh my gosh, he's so cute." "I'm so successful." "That's what I said. It's too much." "He's just the best energy, too."

"It just flies off the screen." "But I was thinking about that." "I wanted to ask you like, what have you learned about yourself since becoming a mom that you feel you didn't know before?" "Well, I do feel like my son reflects qualities in me that are the most human before we get into like our adaptive way." "As human beings do we all do that? We adapt for the room for who we're around for what we want and you know all those kinds of things."

"So I get to see a human before they become aware of how they relate to others, can it pack them?" "Or how others see them, might it pack them?" "So I've learned that I'm very demanding." "He's really demanding." "He's demanding."

"He has clear boundaries." "But he's also really loving and he's polite." "But he's like, what are you doing here and I don't have time for that?" "And so watching him and his like truth, it has really given me so much courage." "So again, self-awareness, let it go."

“"I'm like, so that's what I was like before I decided that I can't about folks."”

"You know what I mean?" "And so I love seeing those." "And then like I said, the presence piece, because kids make you be present. You cannot be somewhere."

"That's looking and learning and again reflecting so much of you back that you start noticing space." "And time is starting to stretch in a way that it hasn't before."

"It's crazy when you have one you realize that what we've always said is true."

"Children are really the future. They're the most greatest gifts. They're so bright, I'd and their spirit is so open and pure and it can't help but affect you." This episode is presented by State Farm. We spend so much energy becoming the best version of ourselves. Building better habits, showing up more fully, embracing mindfulness. But sometimes the most purposeful thing you can do is just handle the thing you've been putting off. If getting your insurance sorted has been living on that list, State Farm is there to help you choose the coverage that's right for you.

Go online at State Farm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their over 19,000 local agents.

“Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. What is he demand and what are the boundaries that he says?”

"So his boundaries is really boundary to about like touch. He's like he wants his space. I need space." "Well, when you turn a hug on me, I'm trying to hug him, I'm trying to kiss him no more kisses." That's the right thing. He'll tell me. He'll do this. He's three. He'll be open to it. But then when it's like, "Mom, no more kissing. That's too much kissing." And I say, "Okay, I understand I respect that." You know, he'll be like, in terms of demanding, he'll be like, "I want my lechita." You know, like, "I want my milk." He's like, "I'm very hungry. I want food."

Or he was like, "Absolutely not. Don't try to feed me anything." Like, he's really like, he will tell you the more words that he has, the more things that he says. He'll say things like, "I would like to watch Master Trot." And he's a really good debater, like a really good, like, he'll try to pick around. So he'll be like, "Can I do this?" And he'll be like, "No, what about this?" And he'll be like, "Okay, no, what about that?" You'll say, "Yes, okay, if you." He says, like, "Few, very expressive." He's actually very animated. Don't know where he gets that fun.

It's the cue. So it's like, it's so funny to just see someone's personality developing and as a mom, as a parent in general, you want to be able to guide them, but you don't want to stop them from discovering who they are in their own way. You don't want to be so much of a curator that you impede their ability to come into their own character. My son has such a great sense of power within self. And as much as I wanted him to be respectful and kind and all that kind of stuff,

it's a constant balancing act because I don't want him to lose his strength and his ability to, especially as a young man, I feel like he's getting to live my male dreams. So I want him to know that he has power and influence and obviously using it in the right way. And he's like, he's only three years old, but these are the things that you're thinking about already, because you want to just make sure you set them up correctly. It sounds like you figured it out. It sounds like you're going to die.

And so many, much more to come, that party training got me in a chokehold. Damn, it's hard. It's really what we through it. Well, you don't know the comfortability of the toilet. Like for us adults, we could sit on the toilet for a long time on our phones. We could sit on a, you know, we have a different relationship to it. As him, he has the relationship where I use the bathroom.

This is on my body. My diaper. I get to keep doing what I'm doing.

I never have to stop and go to the bed.

He doesn't get the whole stopping what you're doing and going to the bathroom and then sitting on the toilet and then the toilet being the place where it goes.

“So the conversation and the comfortability you have to get him with to understand like another toilet is safe.”

The toilet is comforting. The toilet is your space. The bathroom is cool. You know, you get to have a private moment. And so it's just like getting that getting his mind wrapped around. And it's, it's not easy.

And I don't have the same parts as him. Like he looks at me and he's like, who chopped it off? And I'm like, you know, it's like, I can't, you know, I'm not a guy. You know what I mean? So that is like very funny, you know? That's hilarious.

Somebody took hers away. I'm spooked. Oh my gosh, for three, that's a lot of personality for three. Oh my gosh, such personality.

“What have you learned about your parents after becoming a parent?”

I've had my times of being very hard on my parents, especially like in my early 20s.

Never as hard as that would have made me not hold space for them because we've always been really close.

Even in our times where we weren't as close day to day talking or being around each other when I was kind of being in my more like, I need to be independent back. I still think I was always very like, I understand my parents. I hold space for them, you know what I mean? I have compassion for the things they did right and things they didn't do right.

But I think that I understand it much more embody now. Before I was trying to be on my Jayshadi, I was just trying to be like, you know, I'm being mine for and I'm choosing the right path. But there's like doing that mentally and then there's like actually feeling it really. And so I think I was saying that for a long time without actually feeling it

and I think having my son and obviously many things, you know, getting older, you know, allowed me to really understand from their perspective of what that challenge may have been like

that many people are around and influencing and you're trying to keep a hold

but you're putting them here to have opportunity to become more. But then there's also this whole idea that you become not enough for your world or the assumed idea that you're not enough for their world.

“So I just, I think that my parents have a lot of courage.”

I realize that they are really brave people. And they're so, they also love me enough to be that courageous to actually open doors for me to flourish. Like they pretty much were watching me go down the yellow brick road. And they had their ideas of what the wizard was

but they still held hope and faith for me. And I was able to come back and give them something too in the end of it all or as we continue to grow together in this new framework but it was really hard. They were there like my, you know, my, my, my, my, my scarecrow and 10 man

and cowardly lion and, you know, we're two. We've been together on this journey so to see how they've been able to have the strength to allow me to become. I can only hope to be that brave with my child. Have you told him that?

No, my mom's hurt just now, I guess. You prompted this question.

I never have, have articulated or said it because I never really had the opportunity to.

But yeah, that's how I feel. I think that she's really brave and my dad is really brave and I'm really grateful that they weren't afraid to let me be me. Wow. I can tell you, you're like, you're like really living in it for a second.

Yeah, I am, you know, it takes so much time for it. I think the things that we tell ourselves to hit us. And I think I spent a lot of time, especially in my early, my late teens, early 20s, really getting into like the concepts around mindfulness.

“I learned watching YouTube videos online that the only thing that separated me”

from the people that I admired was they thought differently. And so I focused on like, what are people that are successful too? What are those that they put into their mind? How do they talk to themselves? And so I started like practicing those things, you know, going to a trip to Sedona.

You know, having somebody beat on my chest with rakey at night. You know, going on this excursion where I'm in silence. You know, I've tried to put those things in my life. I've been in really hit me. You know, I was just like doing them and I was believing.

I remember one of my favorite quotes. I got to tattoo it is Aristotle. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then isn't an act, but a habit. And that's how it started. It is an act. Not a fake one, but me just trying to figure out how to get to this place where

feels real. And then when you arrive there, it's like, it's, I remember talking to Raven Simone. And she was like, 30s are the, there's a decade of revelations. Like, and obviously, I'm just like, Jesus, you know, I mean, it's not unique. But it's like when she put it like that.

It was like, okay. And then as I've been in my decade, in my decade of the 30s,

“there have been so many revelations that it's like, what is coming next?”

And this year I turned 33. So it's like, what is it going to happen? You know what? I mean, going Jesus here? You know, what is about to be reborn? You know, what's going to happen?

And it's been remarkable, man. Because the seeds that I showed, even though I didn't know, when it was going to really hit me, when it was going to really feel true, I still planted those seeds.

I really did not water them. Sometimes every day, sometimes once a month, sometimes every couple of weeks, you know, and then I come back and I do more consistently. But I kept watering and watering and I now I'm seeing

the growth from those seeds that I sold or that I planted, you know. Yeah, what even took you on that journey? Why did you want to pursue the path of understanding your thoughts and mindfulness and even going on that silent journey? Like, I get that that wasn't even your path.

But why did you even want to go on that path? What were you looking for? What was life like that you were asking those bigger questions? So I think what started me to get into these kinds of conversations was deep depression.

I suffered from like a lot of depression and anxiety. A lot of fainting spells and panic attacks and stuff like that. Like, I will go sometimes and like, my period would disappear because I would be so stressed. And this started when I was like 12.

And I would always journal.

My journals, I think one of my earliest rituals and practices, brandy gave me my first journal. She said you're going to need this. And she was really right. Because it really allowed for me to get a lot of things out.

I think it saved my life in a lot of ways. Being able to come back to myself and remember who I am while dealing with so much of my responsibilities and just the projections of being in front of the camera. And so I would journal a lot.

And I just started to really understand that I was dealing with stuff. And this is why I have such a, I really do love the internet and technology in a lot of ways because it saved me. I remember I started to switch certain of words and certain of feelings and the way that I feel about certain things.

And then different philosophers will come up. You know, or different people that would say certain things. I would put in a word on this website called ThinkExist.com. And I found out words about stress.

Then I found about that what I was feeling was anxiety.

You know, in my mind now, I know them very regularly in my dialogue.

“But at the beginning, I didn't know any of those.”

I thought something was wrong with me. And then I started to realize that these were concepts and things that people have been talking about for thousands of years. Like the fact that I was asking these questions, it wasn't actually crazy.

It was kind of correct. You know what I mean? And I should continue to ask these questions. And so that's when I started to realize that there was other stuff out there.

And that how I was feeling, even if it wasn't something that was common in my industry or something that we were talking about entertainment, there was a space for it. And so through that, you obviously learned about Buddha. And you learned about like all these different concepts

of monks and people going on retreats. And the concept of all this type of stuff. And I started this looking at that when I was probably like 14, 15. And then by the time that I was 18, 19, I was like, I want to see these experiences for myself.

Because my identity was constantly being broken down and attacked. After I was 17, my TV show True Jackson VP went off of the air. It was like I would liken it to a 60 year old man retiring or being removed from his top position as a CEO.

As a 70, that's how I felt. I felt like I'm just having to meet like crisis. Like it was like, whoa, like the money is different. My ability to help my family is different. You know, I don't know who I am as an adult.

Let alone as an entertainer as an, as an, as now and a grown woman. So it was like, it was a lot happening. And I knew that if I was going to survive it, that I was going to have to get my mind right. I just knew that my, and I would watch videos

like Will Smith was never this time too.

It would always be talking about this kind of thing. Yeah. Those like those old interviews, like, yeah, they're insane. He was always talking about get your mind right, get your mind right. And so it's like, I was, I was like, I want to be like, well,

I want to be able to be, I want to be able to be the hero of my life. Yeah. And I took it to heart, man. I took it so to heart. And so I started getting physical.

I started, I got a trainer when I was like 18, 19. I was like, I was like, I was on the Will Smith program. You know what I mean, I was getting my mind right. You have been on the air program. I was on the therapy, getting my body right, getting my mind right.

And it just became a part of the things I was into. It became a part of my hobby. It's kind of part of my personality. It was like doing my work in my job. And then trying to be on some, you know, wellness,

nourishment kick. And my family was like, okay, this is crazy. You know, but that's who I've been in my family. You know, and that's became a part of my life. And so yeah, and from then that would just kept being something

that I always was chipping away at, caring about investing in, you know.

That's in great, I didn't know that. I love for everyone who's listening to know that. Like how much would you dedicate and say, because of that work I did. When I was 18, when I was coming out of a dark period. When I went through this midlife crisis at 17 years old.

And I refocus myself. How much of you success today would you owe to that part? I mean, I want to be dramatic, but I would probably say everything. And I would say not just the success of me as an entertainer, the success of me surviving being an entertainer.

I remember watching the Eddie Murphy documentary and Dave Chappelle said, not only is Eddie Murphy's successful, but he survived being Eddie Murphy. Being a successful person is a great accomplishment, but it comes with a lot of things. It comes with a lot of stuff.

“You know, on the road to success is tough.”

I think you said something similar to this early. On the road to success is tough because it's tough. And then when you get there, the concept of sustaining it. What does it look like to evolve it? How does it look like to deal with what people expect from you because

you are so successful? So, yeah, I think that people say, oh, you're a childhood child. You know, they survived and all this kind of stuff. Like, those are the practices that have helped me. You know, and when I started my company,

KTV Network, that was focused on helping you with your business, your brand, creating the practice of being able to actually do stuff. I could not leave out an opportunity to build something else, practice by Palmer, which is these are the practices that helped me be able to be the person that I am in business.

You have to be good in your mind. You have to know who you are. And there's no way to stay in touch with you. You are in this world without having some type of forms of rituals. You know what I mean?

That's why a lot of people, like, I'm not religious. So, I'm not at the base level. It's a ritual. It's something that you can go to. You know, I'm saying, even though I grew up Catholic,

I have not been consistently to a Catholic church in years. But those rituals. Lord, I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord, my soul to keep. You know, it grounds you.

It's the baseline of what it is. If you take away anything that you think about religion, it's a conversation with yourself. It's a conversation with the universe. Hey, you know, this is what's on my mind.

You need to get that stuff out.

“That's how we know what's going on inside.”

It's the journaling. Spending moments of silence and seeing what comes up into your mind. And, you know, it don't have to be quiet.

I remember when somebody first turned me that mindfulness isn't just,

your mind being quiet is actually, you're watching your mind being not quiet. And actually just sitting back and feeling like that was interesting. I'm gonna let you rock. You know, I mean, like being in that space,

like so for me, it's like that is so important to go side by side.

If you can't be with yourself. If you can't know who you are outside of your achievements. And I just, I really was afraid of, I didn't want to be lost. And I think it was also scary. The feeling of having all so many things stripped from me at that age,

I saw like, I've got to always be okay.

If the money not there, if the projects ain't there, if the people don't care, I've got to be okay. Because this could take me for a jail spin. If you ever open up a church on there. I'm telling you, right?

I'm like, I want to come to your one street. I'm going to go into the wrong thing. This is like, I'm like, I'm in church right now. This is amazing. It's like, I'm all crazy.

No, but it's, as I'm listening to you, I'm like, wow, it's, it's so fascinating hearing someone. What I love about this is I feel like everyone at their point in life comes to recognize the value of this work. Whatever you call it, whether it's religion, spirituality, therapy,

coaching work, the work. Everyone comes there in their own way. And when I hear people's stories about how they found it, it's never the same. It's totally unique.

It's also someone from such a different background and walk of life. Like, I found it at the same age as you did. But I found it in a completely different way. And it was a completely different world when experience that I was having.

But the fact that we both have so many things in comedy, even though we come from totally different way. I was really related to your story when we talked on the show. Even though I didn't go necessarily specifically in that path, I still have, you know, done entertainment work.

I love it that much that I could see that for myself. So I'm like, I love your life because it's like you get to do that every single, you get to talk about stuff that I think is so meaningful. I mean, I'm not trying to say entertainment is not meaningful because everything plays a part.

Sometimes you want to lose yourself in a project.

“Sometimes storytelling is the only way you can understand something.”

So those things are absolutely useful. But what I love is just the opportunity to also bring it back to the attention to that because as human beings, it's really scary. Just don't think we talk about it enough.

We don't know why we're here. We don't. We don't know if we're like a sale microbiome and some big giants life that lives on another planet. We don't know who some sort of experiment.

These are the things that go into your mind. And obviously there are ways that there are things that people do believe about that, but at the base line of it is it can feel really lonely. It can feel really scary.

You don't know if you should try to achieve something and be quote unquote successful or just be over there and village by a lake with your family and do nothing and just appreciate the opportunity of being. All of us are trying to figure it out.

And so I love when we can talk about that because it's like that's the real stuff. That's that's the stuff that sometimes can drive you crazy or make you a narcissist as they say because you just want to feel like you matter.

You know at the core of that is just I want to matter. I want to know that I matter and then my life meant something and that's something that any of us can relate to.

So it brings me great joy because it's always in my mind.

Did you find that a lot of the people around you as you are

“coming up as a child star were struggling with that as well?”

Yes. Most of them were turning to different things to help them. And I felt like my parents were overprotective of me then I felt very alone and I felt like all I had was my journal and that I didn't have anybody that I could talk to.

And I had one friend who just who passed away named Brandon. Yeah, he was my first boyfriend. And we passed away recently. He passed away recently.

Sick of Selenemia. Only 34 years old. And he was my friend that I would talk to a lot. And I have my friend Taylor Parks. I had very few friends that I didn't get to see often.

And my journal. And thanks to my space I was able to talk to them. Time I'll always love you. I will always love you. So it was very, you know, I had a couple of people.

I felt very alone dealing with things that I didn't have anybody to relate to because I didn't have a lot of friends in the industry. The ones that were where it wasn't the same, you know what I mean? Gravity. And a lot of kids my age, I could see now

like when I had conversations with people like Demi. I wish that I did talk to them.

“I think I also felt very isolated being a lot of times the only black.”

And my experience with being the only black in my school back in Illinois was like staying in Langirl. You know what I mean?

So I was obviously the star my own show and I never was like putting my head down.

But I kind of was like, I don't know if I'm really what we really talking about. Like I really didn't know. So I was just like showed up, hey, we polite, we talked. But we weren't really necessarily getting into it because we didn't have the language that we had now.

Like there was no words from my words. There was no words for, you know, what that felt like. And you know, nuances. So but when I see now, I see that we all really was dealing with a lot of different different, you know, and our own way, but a lot of the same things that I wished

that we all could have talked. But there was no space for that. You know, so a lot of the time, you know, people were sex or drugs or whatever it might have been for them to be able to cope. And honestly, for me, I was a really internet kid.

I went to the internet. And I still be on there. You know what I mean? You know, so it's like, I was, I was the kid. You from the good side of the internet.

Man, it would mean we had some times. You know, those early days with a while, while I was. But I really do feel grateful to have experienced my space. I really found some really genuine. You're giving some big shots to my face.

Honestly, because it was the place why I just, I just was coding.

I was having so much fun being able to express myself on my small corner. And it was private, right? Because this is before Twitter. This is before, you know, entertainers being online. This is like back in the day, me and any of the friends that I had or

do or I should say, peers, colleagues that I had on Disney and Nickelodeon. We had private pages. Like, our names would be like, Fanny, Fanny, two, two. You know what I mean? Because we're like trying to be like, oh, in cognito.

You know what I mean? So it was like before all that time. And it was the one place that I felt like I could express. So that was a saving grace for me. What's it like now?

What are the rituals now? I thought you might say with the internet. Oh no. We've got that, baby. Baby.

We're sorry. Go ahead. Actually, let's go back to step. When you were 18 and looking forward. And you're like, God, I got to learn all these things.

And I'm going to learn the mindset and I'm watching the world Smith video.

“And whatever else you may be, did you ever think you would find the answer?”

Or did you feel scared that you may never know?

I actually did believe. I really did believe. I didn't know when though. So I had to really have a lot of patience. But I did believe.

I believe that if I keep, I thought, wow. But then I happen. If I don't keep, if I keep chipping away. It's like the picture that goes viral every two years. Where the guy's like chipping away and he turns around.

He was already that he was just there. I really believe that there's no way. If I keep chipping away that I won't get to whatever I'm trying to be. I really truly believe that. So even though it will be hard in times.

And then you see small things. Things that stuck. You know what I mean? Things that were like, oh, I went from working out every now and then to now. It's a part of my every single day.

Or you know, I went to, you know, only going for a walk. You know what I'm doing? I started to see those changes.

“But my attitude is, I think a lot of times you think you're going to have a new mind.”

But my mind is actually just so much more compassionate. The new mind was compassion for myself to be able to grow. Like I realized that it was not like a new person that would be. But that it would be like.

It would just be a version of me that supports the person I've always been.

You know what I mean? And given myself a safer place to land and being okay with things don't go right. And knowing that I can get right back up again. Instead of thinking that, oh, I messed up on Monday. I guess I don't get another chance till Friday. It's like, why would that be the case?

You still have the opportunity in the next couple hours to decide to have a better mood. So I think that's the cool thing that I've discovered when I think about me and my, you know, 18 and those early teen years of getting into awareness of myself with intention. It's like, wow, like, I didn't become a new person. I just started being nicer and more loving and supportive of the person that I've always been.

And because of that, I've bloomed. You know what I mean? That's so good. That's so good. No, because I think that's we constantly convince ourselves that you're going to become a new person.

That you've got to become a new version of yourself. And you're so right that it's actually just seeing the version that already is there. Yes. That exists, that lives, that breeds, that has all the skills, the potential, the tools, the mindset, and being present for that version and being compassionate.

“Because if you're always telling yourself, you have to be someone else to be successful.”

Well, that just such you just being so mean to you. You know, Renee Brown speaks a lot about that kind of thing with the shame piece. And it's so interesting how that can show up in your life. And you just, you don't think that that's what you're doing. But you are, I think I used to feel so much shame or guilt around my large capacity.

So I would constantly outsource it and then I'd be so sad when I got nothing back. Because it was like that the capacity that abundance, it actually should be inward. And I shouldn't feel guilty that I can pull myself up or, you know, decide to go out there for my goals.

Or, you know, instead of always feeling like it's my job to make other people feel great about themselves.

Because they don't have that energy. What would happen if I, you know, I gave that when I could and when I felt like doing it. But I gave it back to myself. Yeah. And it's like damn, yeah, I needed this. And when now I see how I feel when I'm actually giving what I've been giving out to me.

Yeah, yeah. And we feel selfish when you fast to it. You do, right? And I don't, it's a guilt, it's a shame. It's a shame around seeing something, having insight around something, feeling something, knowing something.

For whatever reason, I don't know what that is. But as human beings, the moment that we feel that we have a lot, it's just so weird. I don't know what that does. But, you know, yeah, I feel that that I've had to deal with that. That I felt shame since I was a little kid being able to be happy even. You know, those are like priceless things.

I thought I felt guilt about it. That I was able to be so happy even when we was living in poverty. And nothing was good was going on. I felt like I could find a reason to have joy. I could get out in the flow and dance and be, you know, I always felt like that.

That was like a superpower for me. And I felt like I'll guilty about that because everybody else can't be happy. That's my job to make everybody, you know, and it's like that's different.

And then giving, because you feel that people need you to.

“You're like guilty, giving from a place of guilt and shame for having joy as a pole.”

You know, that can really distort the gift. Yeah, when you feel you're responsible for other people's emotions, that just sends you down the wrong path. When you feel you're on your path and you can overflow and give people the love that they deserve and need. That's a totally different thing.

And it's such a fine line. Yes, it is. For people with big capacity, especially. Because sometimes just your presence. I can relate to everything you say right now.

You know, because you need it. And that's your work. Yeah. I remember one time I was talking to. And I'm sure I would love to hear if you have a version of this.

One of my teachers, one of the people first that were mentoring me on this pass was a makeup artist. And she introduced me to another kind of master, Yogi type of person. But I can only call him at a certain amount of time. He was only available till a certain amount of time. And if you didn't catch him, you didn't catch him.

And you also cannot call him after this time. Wow. And so I would talk to this man every now and then. One time I called this man, it literally like the time was like 8 p.m. I called this man at 8.01.

He answered, "Why would you call me? Why would you call me?" It sounded almost like we was in beyond belief. We were only fact-efficient and he was going to disappear after this. It was like it was like so far, urgent. He was like, "Why would you call me? Why would you call me?"

And I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I've never been able to contact that man again."

No. I have never been able to reach him again. I've never been able to. It's like gone. It's like gone in the wind.

It's like he's gone. You know what I mean? And I say that to say like, I really respected that he had clear boundaries. He had a large capacity.

He knew he's a people probably called that man a day to tell him about something, to talk to him about a new path. But he had very clear boundaries to the point where he said, "You didn't follow and you can't be involved

because I have a lot to give and I have to protect it so that I can keep giving it to its full capacity." So that made me think with you, I'm sure that you have somebody friends

that's calling you, that's telling you, "Do you have something that you try to let them know?" I'm not open for business with this right now. [laughter]

Well, I have a rule that I don't give friends advice because I just want to be a friend. Well, guess what, we're not friends. We're not friends. We're not friends.

Yeah, you can call me, I'm not friends. Because I used to feel like when we'd be just hanging out and someone's talking about their problems, I don't like giving on solicited advice. That's first.

Yeah, yeah. No one needs on solicited advice. That's what I don't give that. But what I didn't like was like, friends would be just talking about their problem.

Jay, tell us what to do, and then no one's going to follow up and listen to it because they're your friend. So they're not going to take it seriously either. Some like, look, I'm just going to hang, we're just going to talk about soccer or something.

They talk about the basketball, like, let's just be friends. And it's safer that when then when someone's coming to you, asking me for advice, truly locking in,

truly saying, "Hey, I'm taking this really seriously. I'm not asking the group chat. I'm coming to you because I want you to help and support. I'm locked in. I'm dead.

Oh, of course." But that was my boundary setting, where it was like, if we're committed to each other, that you want to do the work,

and I'm going to help you, then I'm in. But if we're just giving free advice and hanging out, that's not going to help anyone, because we're all going to feel spent.

But I mean, I should do the eight or one thing. That's what I should do. That's what I should do. That's what I should do. I was trying to get back to you for years.

It was like, you're done.

“But it's so important because I feel like we find”

ourselves doing that too. I can at least say for myself, where it's like when I take a step back, everything that I was trying to tail others, or support others on,

even if they asked, even if they were just having a conversation, and I accidentally spilled extra over, those were things that I needed. And so I've really been in the season of restraint.

Even if somebody asks me, I'm not telling them what to do, or telling them I'm just being a listening ear and allowing my presence to at least just be a bouncing board.

Which is so funny,

because that's what we always say.

Good therapist is anyway. Like, you know what I mean? A good person that you actually are going to for help, is generally pushes you toward the answers that you have yourself. Yes.

So it's so funny how you can be thinking that, you know, it's your job, it's your duty and it's like actually, your best thing is to just be there, to listen and to reflect.

And so in my season of restraint, I feel like, I'm getting so much of the things that I thought that other people need it for me. I'm actually realizing how much better

off I am by having my relationships reflect information to me. And instead of thinking I'm supposed to share it, but actually like leaning into the intuition myself, seeing what reality reveals to me.

And then also taking what I learned or what I'm seeing reflected in the relationship and actually turning it back into myself and saying, well, what's my relationship to this?

“If I think that that's what's happening with this person”

is actually on up in my life. Instead of thinking, I'm supposed to tell the person something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we feel better when other people are doing worse.

Yeah. And I'm obligated and obligated in some way to be like,

Yeah.

A Virgo is good for somebody the way I should.

I'm a Virgo. I threw it. I was a Virgo. We can be, well, if we're not healed, we can be actually.

Well, but what's your birthday? August 26th. I'm six of 10. Wait, let's be. We can little be by the way.

Yeah. It's okay. I have to really control that. I had to reign it in. I had to reign it in.

By the way, Eris, you're not, you're not free.

Oh, really? What are you calling Eris? Eris love to be like, actually. What's Leah? Leo is a Leo rising, a tourist moon.

Okay. Oh, okay. He's not a actually person. Okay. He's actually like, actually, your ass.

Leo was like 10 to mirror. I got my own mind. Do my own style at my own time. He is so unbothered. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Well, they say Pisces are perfect opposites of vergos. Oh, interesting. My sister's a Pisces. Very let it flow, very let it go.

“Very my son is so present and so like, he cool, you know?”

Yeah. Who gave you these blue eyes? They are remarkable people. Complete anomaly in my family. No one has them.

They're just awesome. No one has them. I got really lucky. I grew up with jokes about how my mum had in the favor of the milkman. Oh, my gosh.

It's even people. Does he? I never noticed them. Oh, that's so funny. I never knew that.

Wow, that's funny. Yeah, no, complete anomaly. You're so like, when you walk into a room, you're such a force. Oh, my gosh. You're just such an energy spark, like whether it's a big room, a small room like this.

Whatever it is, how would Lauren walk into a room? Hmm. Well, she would probably walk in and not feel like she had to make people feel comfortable about it. That that that the energy existed, but because it would make people feel some type of way. And I learned this very early on when I started going to private school because the teachers were like staying in line.

The energy was clear that for whatever reason, however I was perceived on the outside, the power that I had within was not allowed. And so I just I'd learn not to silence the power, but to make it more palatable and make it a little bit easier for you to get into. And that's when my that that's when those skills sets, you know, of me being able to regulate the space or be able to translate who I am, whether through co twitching or charm or whatever it could be called.

“That was me trying to create safety for myself and it was the best way that I knew how to get to create safety.”

And then there are things that they are part of me, you know, they're who I am, but now I don't always feel like, you know, or I'm at least better about where I choose to go.

If a place requires me to do that to be safe because ultimately that's where it came from. It came from a place of feeling unsafe, showing up being seen as powerful, being felt as powerful, power that I didn't even know that I had. And trying to figure out how to make sure that it was hands up don't shoot basically, you know what I'm saying. As a black young black person, and as a young black woman. And so I would just be managing the fear that that would put into others.

Did you have experiences like that that felt very, very unsafe? Oh my gosh, yes, all the time, you know what I mean, whether it was with, you know, massageny, and then also racially. When people feel like you are challenging the status quo in some regard, also I saw it in history. I remember having a conversation with somebody, you know, and I was thinking about like Martin Luther King, you know what I mean? And it was like, that's a fear that black people really genuinely feel.

Anybody that is of a person of color or dealing or from a particular group that decides to stand up, a lot of times they've been murdered. You know, they've been attacked. Carrying about my community, being passionate, you can't be Michael from Good Times and actually live long. That's what you've seen the pattern to be. And so yeah, very young knowing that I had impact doing movies like Heal and the B, my community saying, we got,

it became kind of afraid at a certain age where it's like, well, I don't know about it to take me out. You know what I'm saying? I want to be afraid of me, you know, or think I'm going to do, you know what I mean? And I remember after I did one of the marching that we were dealing with and I say one of the marching because it's so many that it gets to the point where it's like, you know, I right after George Floyd died. I was like, I just something had come over me and I was, I had a moment with the National Guard that people filmed and I remember being really, really scared.

“But I think that that marked like a moment in my life where I maybe was trying to come out of that fear.”

Because I was spooked that like, I remember calling my mom like, they're probably going to get me for this. So I'm going to be, I was really spooked that people going to get me for just standing up for my community in this way. And it was really scary to me, but something had just come over me in that moment. And it was, it was during COVID and everything was so I felt just so like, I just was like, I, I just, I just, I just, I believe this. You know, I was just so unhappy and just so, but I didn't want that to make me silent.

And then I just, it was just so much feelings that I had to do that. And then I, but I was a little bit scared, but I feel like it was the marking of me kind of shedding some of that fear. And also like being able to understand and articulate some of these things.

You know, I mean, whenever you are, whatever background or whatever you believe in, you know, we're all dealing with some challenges. And I remember I would have these experiences like going to Harvard and the Harvard would be doing a thing on me. And talking to me about power and I would be trying to figure out like, why am I the cake study? You know, so it took me many years to understand what I was holding, how was affecting people and why it was such a thing that I had to manage all the time. And then to be at peace with that.

Yeah, it's amazing how we develop all these skills and tools in order to feel safe.

And then they become the very things that make us feel unsafe because we get so disconnected from who we are. It's so fast today, isn't it? You hate that. It's like I'm pretending to become good. Yeah, it's like how you're protective tool suffocate to you, which is like a fascinating idea when you think about it. And we all do that with kids for me, like watching my parents argue watching my parents behave in the way they did.

I was picking up cues and I can walk into a room and I know every energetic field that is going on in a room in any room. I can listen to each corner I know what's happening over there and I can be fully present over here because I had to. I don't have a choice and I love letting skill. Yeah, I love that skill. I love that tool and at the same time, it can take away from being able to flow and have human experience.

“And so you have to be aware of it. So you almost have to be aware of the tools that you built to protect and make sure they don't suffocate you.”

What have you done to create those spaces where these incredible tools you have? Yeah, yeah.

And that you use so wisely, you've learned how to be really effective with them.

And at the same time, they are true to you. They're not, they're not inauthentic. But then how have you allowed yourself to put the sword and shield down sometimes and breathe? What does that look like? Well, I think what I did my TED talk, that was a big moment. That was meant by the way.

That was meant by the way. Thank you so much. I want to, I want to, you know, my whole team wants to, and everyone was like, raven about it. So just see that. And thanks so much.

That was a big, wreck moment of reclamation for me, parasocially. I think in my personal life, you know, like I said, my practices, holding space for myself over time,

have allowed me to let those things, have those moments of breath.

You know, but parasocially, that was an opportunity to really also speak to my audience about that differentiation. My nuance outside of just being fun, joyful and energetic is I have feelings. I'm a human being. I've had my experience in this and being coming this has been has cost me a lot of things. And my nervous system is re-adjusting from all these experiences that I've had and that it's okay to be nuanced and complex. And that I don't want to be the poster child for high-per-functioning if it doesn't sit alongside this truth.

That was like a big, big moment for me and my life.

“Now it's everything is integrated because it was always fragmented from my arrival, my professional life is a,”

that was a big moment of integration in a major way. Again, being able to speak to truth, being able to speak truth to power. That is the greatest liberator of that voice that's inside that had to rest. It's to actually speak truth on the things that I experience and what it caused me and how I had to learn this stuff and that adaptive intelligence and what performance is and what is authenticity that lives inside of that.

Like, these are conversations that I felt like I wasn't allowed to have or I couldn't have. And a lot of times in the early days, people didn't want to have. I don't know why they can't give a damn about this. You know, they don't want to, you had to just be ready to go. Totally.

You know what? You want to be just hey, just too much. So it's like, if you talk, if I can have the conversation that I can have the conversation, so I'll also say time. And that's why I'm taking care of yourself. I'm so happy that I did those things so that when the world also was arriving at these times,

that I could share that this, I could share this truth because people could be open and ready to hear it. And so I felt like that was also true for my generation how I came up in this industry and what it took for me to get here. It was like, also waiting for spaces like this to exist. I feel like, you know, I mean, obviously podcasting exists back then, but it was called talk radio.

Yeah.

“And you weren't having conversations like this, right?”

Yeah. Also, we've all caught up to our period. So it's like a collective shift that has gone on that I get to be a part of. No, for sure. And you were ahead of it.

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for anxiety attacks. And I go to the doctor. The doctor would wire me up with this like crazy technology. Checking my heart rate. Checking my heart beats.

And then 24 hours out after where it's school. It would look really weird. And then the nights go back and they're nothing wrong with him. And I'm like, mum, there's something wrong with me. Like, I'm having an experience.

We just didn't have language for it. And so what you're saying about languages huge. But vocabulary, emotional vocabulary is just so huge. And I feel like people being exposed to ideas and words is so important. I mean, I didn't even realize that the how the recursive kind of like boom that is when I was thinking about the fact that I did a key land to be.

This movie that again, it's inspiring for many different ways. But for me, it became re-inspiring because it's like, yes, a little girl having language to express how she feels. That's crazy.

Yeah, that is powerful because words, what should we can put words?

I mean, we can get all into the con that words have different meanings for other people. Like, you know, yes, of course. Love doesn't mean the same to me as a museum. But if we're generally speaking, having the words to define and articulate how you feel with precision is without a doubt liberating.

“And that's why the TED Talk experience was so major for me.”

Because it was a moment that I had to sit down actually, right? And I would say something that was crazy too. With this whole TED Talk thing. So I was getting ready to film a movie, right in the middle of when I'm getting ready to do the TED Talk and have the TED experience. And I was fine with it. I was like, I'm going in, just do my talk that one day.

I won't get to do the whole TED, but I'll get to do my talk that one day that'll be fine. And then Mr. Me, you know, preparing for my talk, we're preparing for the movie. And they're chipping away a lot of stuff. Like, the movie was supposed to be a certain amount of days, now I stand in two days. Not literally, but you know what I mean, it ain't a long time.

The movie is supposed to be this much money they're doing with it. Now it's crunch this much money. Okay, that's going to make things harder for us as well. You know, all these little things started to happen that started to make me feel really just not happy and uncomfortable. You know, in the midst of that, they were also chopping down my TED day.

So it's really, I was going to have all my TED days and be able to have the experience. But then suddenly that stopped going from that to meet just having the one day. And I was still like, I find it a bit. Then they called and they say again, and pretty much they're going to take away the TED day.

And I did something that I've never done before, which I'm still so proud of myself doing this.

I said I'm not doing the movie. Wow. I'm not doing the movie. I'm done.

“Because by the way, I already didn't want to do the movie.”

The truth of the matter is I was already doing the same shit that I'm talking about doing in this speech that I don't want to do. I don't feel good. It doesn't make me happy. I'm not going to enjoy this. This is requiring me to chop off pieces of myself that matter to me.

Man, when I tell you that I said no to that moment, I felt so liberating. I had my experience with my TED conference and had my talk. And was able to feel truly embodied in that moment and to know that I was actually making choices that really were real for the person that the true full person that I am. That was a moment. I'm so proud of myself.

I'm proud of you. That's amazing. I'm so proud of myself.

Those are the hardest moments though.

Well, you're put to the test. Yeah, exactly. You're up there saying the thing. And then you almost have to live it. I've had many of those moments in those of the hardest because you can tell with you in alignment or you're misaligned.

Yeah. Because you're like, I'm saying this thing over here, but. And it's so crazy because then to get the feedback that I got in on my TED talk. I just like, God is just so real to me.

“You know, because it's like, God will show you life will show you.”

And it's not about like just data and insights. It's about impact. It's about the fact that somebody who comes up to me and they say, Girl, I feel the same way. And this is what I've been experiencing with my family.

I love doing movies. I love performance. I love all that type of stuff. But you can't take these. If something is going to take moments like that away from me true,

connection like that for me, then it ain't right. I know that it ain't right. If it doesn't feel good. If I'm not liberating excited about it, then it can't be. It can't be correct for me.

It can't be true. And so that really was a big moment for me this year. It really was. Yeah. At the beginning, you kind of can cut corners.

You're trying to figure your way, right? Not everything's going to be fully aligned when you start. You have to do certain things. You have to compromise. But when you get to a certain point,

that's why you get to that point. Right? To your point about that point, you can't deny the awareness. Yeah.

I had become so aware. I had become much too aware. When you started, you don't know. But once you are aware, I was aware that if I said yes to that movie

and didn't do what I wanted to do with it, I would have been betraying myself. See, these other situations, the best self betrayals are not as glaring. Because we don't really even know how to really show up for ourselves.

It's still trying to become aware of what we want.

and aware of what's not in alignment with that, and you decide to still do what's not in alignment with that. Well, now you're going to have me dealing with, I'll betray myself. And that, once I become aware of what I could be betraying myself,

I'm not closing my eyes to that. But you cannot be not going to be going to go ahead and fold it to that. Yeah, yeah. One thing if I can't really see it, I don't really know.

And it's a delayed reality. But when I know straight out, this is the moment I was waiting for. What am I going to do with it? And I'm going to show up for me.

I must. Oh, it's not as good as this. I want to go to this chat. I'm waiting for you. You're going to set a song.

I'm like, "Yeah. I'm going in. I'll be the best decide for." I'm like, "Right there. I'll be the best student decide.

I'm going to subscribe." I'm so in.

I'm like, "I've never been this motivated in my life.

I'm going to walk out of here." I'm like, "Chains the world after this." You all ready to do it. No, no, no, no, no. This is the same.

No, no, no, no. This is the same. You're going to be the best. This is like, this is the most pumped up of everything.

“I'm like, "Dear, you need to guard this.”

So your life out. What are you doing?" You want to find it. I'm just serious. From one burger to another.

I mean, we're seeing it. I'm being serious. I mean, I'm not just saying, I actually mean everything very genuine. You mentioned a couple of moments ago that they have loved and I've seen about a lot of our audience,

a young women there, entrepreneurs there, doing incredible things. They're winning at life. But the question that I constantly get is, Jay, I want to find the right partner. I want to find the right person. That's an important part of my life.

What do you look for in a partner today? With everything you've achieved, everything that you are, all the inner work that you've done. What do you look for? You know, this is a question I've been asked for myself. I had cool little woman with my mommy at the day where it was kind of a realization of,

if you're not really wanting what you say you want, your relationships are going to keep failing. And I feel like because my parents were traditional, I thought that that's what I wanted. And by traditional, I just mean like,

you know, married. You know, we are in a very just like, my parents are so all American and they ain't even funny. You know, they found each other out of college. They're in love of a year.

Got married. They left each other side since. They are an American story. And so I assumed that that was for me because I admire it so much. And I just thought it was just so awesome.

But the truth was that actually is not an alignment with who I am. And I like my parents weren't entertainers full time. They weren't doing the kind of work that I were doing. They weren't dedicated to a passion in this regard. They don't have my same personality.

They don't have my same makeup. They made me from that. But I'm not actually that traditional.

I've always loved whoever I wanted to love.

Relationships can look any which way to me.

“Like, that's how they felt even though I was trying to do something”

that I felt was the only way to do it. And so now what relationships look like for me is like, I'm somewhere between Uncle Jesse and Erica Badu, probably. You know what I mean? I'm living with my family.

You know what I mean? I love that. You know, I want to be in my own house. I want to be in my own house with my family. With my sisters.

With my niece, my nephew. Like, I always want us to have that. That makes me happy. Because I don't think that my real love or relationship with me necessarily looks like we live together.

Or if we do live together, we live together part-time. Like when I'm coming to where you're at. And I decide to stay with you for a little while. And then I go back to my house. So there's a big space that has to be held for independence and freedom.

That doesn't mean I want to slip with everybody. That's not what I mean by freedom. Although it could look, it could look like that. It really means I just want to have my own space to be me. And I think that's something I used to lie about.

To myself about. Because I felt like I had to perform what it was to be a partner. That means we've got to be together all the time. That means we've got to do all this together. But that actually isn't what I like.

It's so that my personality changed. I start being a little withdrawn. I don't really care as much. And now you feel like I'm lying. But I'm not intentionally lying.

I'm just trying to be a role that I don't want to play. And I act most of the time. So now I'm tired of acting with you. And now the relationship is done. Yeah.

“And so I think what I've learning about myself are those things, right?”

I don't necessarily need to be with somebody all the time. Because I still want to be with my friends. And I want to be with my family. And I want to be with myself. That's number one.

We have to have great sex. Sorry. I mean, that's a reliever. You know what I mean? You need that relief in life.

So we have to have some type of passion and chemistry in that regard.

I don't think I always was again as a woman.

You know, you can't be true for it. But half the time, that's why you're mad. Because you're not getting that vitamin D. You needed it to be at a certain level. And it was given not enough.

So you know, I got to be really about that. Yeah. So I think that's important to me. And experiences. Like quality time.

We could be on the couch watching a movie or show. Or we could be going on an excursion somewhere. And the apps. So experience. I think I see a thing for me.

Relationship. Love is less about what it looks like to other people. What relationships are supposed to be. And truly what makes me happy. What allows me to be fully myself.

But what is ultimately fun.

Respectful and true. Yeah. I remember I was talking to some guy recently. And he kept saying sorry every time that he would be late to a message to me. Or something like that.

And I really want him to know like, you're not obligated to me. We know. I know we vibe in. And I love the vibe. And I love that you want to reach out to me.

But I want to know that you want to reach out to me because you want to reach out to me. Because you think I'm going to be angry with you. Or because the connections they're going to be lost. Because if you need time, I want you to know that I can hold space for you to need time for you. Because I want you to hold space for me.

Because the truth of the matter is you don't want to talk to somebody all day long sometimes. Definitely. Don't mean you don't love it. You know what I mean. I don't mean you don't love them.

It just means you need to beat you. You might need to be in your mind for a minute. Or you might need to say, you don't break or whatever. And then you come back and say, hey, it was a hard day for me. I know you ain't heard from me all day, but I'm holding space for you.

Because I don't need you to perform connection. I need you to just be true for you.

“And I think that's what it looks like for me now.”

What is the truth for you? And can you still love me in there? Do you still like me in there? You still want to hang out with me? If you still want to hang out with me, then maybe we could be meant to beat.

You know? That's such a great answer. I feel like everyone's doing some version of that Forming, folding, molding, performing. Right? We're all kind of going, oh, you want me to be a bit more that.

Then I'll be a bit more that. And you want me to be a bit less that. Then I'll be a bit less that. And then we end up becoming this version. And then we present ourselves.

And then that person doesn't like us either because. It's like, it's like, all of, we found out all of this. It took me so many times. Because I've just thought that I had to be this traditional vibe. And as it wasn't me.

So then at the bottom, I'm tired of playing this role. And then they even, like, there's some secret that you're hiding. It's like, you want to be in my room alone. And I just didn't take enough space for myself. And so now I'm mad in my relation because I've betrayed me.

And I'm resenting.

“We're scared that being ourselves will push the other person away.”

But then if you become the person, they want you to be. You push them away anyway. Because you don't like yourself. You don't like yourself.

And you can't do it for that long. How long are you going to do it for? And so, so fascinating that, yeah, we'll say, Oh, no, but if I tell them that this is what I want. And this is what I need, then they might go away.

And right, it's true. Like that's what people are thinking. And honestly, maybe they should. You know, some of these people. This is that burger right now.

It's like, you know. We are having a burger one time. Absolutely incredible. But it's true because sometimes you're doing all that shit.

And it's like, that was never for you, girl or guy or them or they.

That wasn't for you. And so we do have to really start being truthful. So that we can actually be connected with the people that are on our same frequency. The more that we're contorting ourselves into being who are not the more that we're actually getting what we don't want. Oh, which is just like so sucky.

Yeah. It's the worst. It's the worst. Do you find it hard to trust people? I think so.

Even just. Put some mush it down with them. Hmm. Trust. Because I also feel like that my life comes with.

A lot of stuff that people can end up getting affected by.

“So it's hard a because I feel, you know, that my life is a lot going on and I don't want it.”

Like it's hard to trust someone with that weight. And so I kind of just say, well, I don't want to tell it because that's too much for you. And I don't want to really put it on you. Hmm. But then also when I have that people into my world.

The lights are bright. And the reality of it is every relationship is a little bit transactional. It doesn't mean that it's bad.

Like, you know, there's always a gift.

Somebody's going to be getting something. You're going to be giving. Giving something. And it happens back and forth. And that's to me.

There's nothing wrong with this. That's humanity. That's relationships. But what happens sometimes with me is that sometimes people get stuff they didn't even ask for. They get attention.

The perception could be either inflated or could be deflated. There's so much that they could get that they're not even aware that they could get that they didn't even necessarily want. But then they're then asked what they're willing to take. And I've been very disappointed a lot of times because I've learned that a lot of people will take more than they need. Just because it's there.

And it's very human. But it's very hurtful to me because then I feel like I'm not being seen or valued really for who I am. But you're now being lost in the world of who I'm perceived to be. And you're willing to take whatever that world gives you. And that is an extraction actually from me.

It's a very extractive. So that is hurt me a lot in relationships being able to say it has become so happy. Because I would just feel it. I'm being robbed of something. I don't know what you're stealing, but there's something being dimmed.

But I've learned now what it is that's happening. And I hold grace for those people, but I create a healthy distance. Because without that awareness, you might rob me. And I'm not open for theft.

They fall in love with that. That 2D version of you. And that happens to everyone by the way. You don't have to be a public figure or being movies for people to do that. People fall in the 2D version of you.

Often that 2D version is the version they even made up of you. And then the benefits that come with that 2D version. And none of us want to be loved for that. No. Because it's a character.

It feels like you're a ratio. It feels like you're being erased. It feels like you're a ratio. It's like damn. I don't matter.

I don't. It's a funny because you find yourself in these relationships where it's like again. It goes back to what we're talking about.

Where it's like, well, you erased that person first.

Mm-hmm. Because you didn't speak the truth. You didn't actually say your boundaries. You didn't actually say your limits. You didn't actually.

So they're only acting like you.

“And so it's really important for perception to not be something that guides you.”

And for you to know yourself enough to know what is reality and what is just of the pigment of other people's imagination. Yeah. Yeah. And we outsourced that a lot. What is my mom thing?

What is my friend thing? What is my, you know. And you can just outsource the biggest decisions of your life to the group chat. The group chat. Woo.

That group chat needs to be on pause. Yeah. Right. But we do. But we do it.

Yeah. We do it. We do it. We do it. But a few more moments like this was made just for you.

It's called does it have a little sweetness to it. So I'm going to give you a scenario. And you'll tell me if it's sweet or if it's a no go when it comes to day. Okay. All right.

They create a playlist for you. Oh, the sweet. That's sweet. I think that's sweet. The playlist.

I just made a playlist for someone.

I did. I don't know. Okay. You're scared of giving it to them. I'm not giving it to them.

Oh, you're not giving it to them. I'm not. Yeah. Oh, okay.

“It's like a playlist for me when I wanted to be the soundtrack of my mind.”

Okay. Morning evening. All day. Oh, wow. All right.

Some lucky person. Give this. All right. They keep a photo of you in their wallet. That's sweet.

Okay. That's sweet. In their wallet is sweet. Yeah. Not that screen saber down that phone.

Screen saber or wallet. Just me. Screen saber is a bit much. I think screen. Screen saber is us.

I'm happy. Got it. Great. Screen. Screen.

Screen. Screen. Alright. They bring you soup when you sick. That's so lovely.

That's so thoughtful. Absolutely. You're very empathetic. Compassionate loving human beings. Someone else will be a bit more savage.

All right. They plan an entire day, but won't tell you where you're going. I like that. Do you like to surprise me? I like it.

“Well, I like to know that I'm about to be surprised.”

So a piece set the context of this is a surprise. Then I'm cool. Sometimes surprise can be a bit much. And this is what I've also noticed with my son. The reason why my son is like that is because he knows he's overstimulated.

And so he'll be like back up all this shit. You know what I mean? I'll do it too much. That's what I actually feel. And so I've learned to like actually just say like don't.

You know what I mean? Because it's true. I get overstimulated and then I become plateaued. It's too much. I get it.

Yeah. I get it. All right. Few more. They write you a hundred and letter.

Is it positive for us? Like the letters? I love letter. Yeah. I'm here for the love letter.

Okay. I love that. Oh my god. Gosh. You're so easy.

I'll take it off. All right. They asked to take a picture together after the first day. Uh-huh. No.

That's an absolute now. Picture together after the first day. What we're doing is this is not a. No. No.

I don't want that. There's no exceptions to that. All right. They call instead of texting you back. Absolutely not.

Do not call me ever. Ever. I'll call you. If I don't start the calling with you, don't call me. I'm here for text.

I'm even here for voice notes. Don't call me. I hate voice notes. Who we are? Do you hope you have your trip?

I'm like, get to the place. Do you have your transcripts on? Yeah. I just read the transcript at the time. I can't stand voice notes.

Unless you have an amazing voice.

And I asked you to send me a voice pass on me. Please do not send me a voice note. Please send me a voice note. You are too funny. They want to spend every day together.

Obviously we know they want to do that right now. That's too much. It's not even because I don't like you. But we're not going to be good if we do this. Like we're just not.

I think what would be like really good. Like my minimum would be like once a week. Seeing you in person. That's like a straight line. I would like to see you at least three times a week.

I think three times a week is good. And then we can have space in between there. You know what I'm saying? Because let me miss you. I also learned that I like that that I like being able to come back to be so much.

I won't believe what happened in the last few days. I don't get a chance to tell you about this. We need that. Yeah, you don't want that daily. You're just routine.

Because what are we saying? Yeah. How did it? Yeah. They tell them I'm about you after the second day.

No. No. No. Has someone done that before? Yeah.

Somebody at me meet their whole family.

On this after the second day.

How did you look into that? How was going through a break up? What did you do? Did you just go, hey. I didn't change into a tour.

I felt like I was on a super fan tour. I didn't have anything else going on. I went with it. Last one. They danced with you in the kitchen.

The sweet. I love that. We're dancing in the kitchen. It's sweet. I like it.

I like it. Okay. So this is good. This is. I think that's.

Is that the Virgo in us? Is that just. I think that is. I hope that's romantic in us. We clearly have a similar personality.

I don't know how much of that is our signs. But us having the same sign. I mean, it does seem like it's goes hand in hand. We love genuine sincerity moments. Yes.

That's always going to win with us.

We don't like anything. Virgos don't really like when stuff is like just false. Yes. You know, so those things feel pure. Pure.

Yeah. And real. We talked about this. But I wanted to talk about it from the perspective of like, you just took on so much responsibility when you were young.

And for me, it's like, I don't remember taking on responsibility for myself. And that was hard enough. I started working when I was 14. I paid for my my own phone bill. I paid for my first car.

I paid for all of that stuff. But I wasn't taking care of my family. My family was taking care of me over all. So I'm like, I can't imagine what that does.

“What do you feel you've had to unlearn from your childhood?”

That time is over. Because I think that that was necessary at that time. You know, I come from a village. The village of Robins. And community is everything.

And I still stand behind those rituals in order for my family to get out of poverty. That was what it took. But I just didn't realize when it was done. It did require a lot for me. But I didn't do it alone.

My parents were there for me. It was definitely like, we was a scenario. You know what I'm saying? It's like, there's some things that like we've got to understand that like, are systemically what happens.

And it's not a scenario that you would hope for. But I felt like I could do it. And so I did my very best and my parents were there. And it was a business that we held up. It was a lot of it was on me because I was the one in front.

But I didn't do it alone. They were there to support me. And so we got to a point where it's like, That's over. So everything that I had to learn to be during that time.

I just didn't learn. And I'm going to have to have as many years of relaxing it to know that it's done with. Because I don't have to operate from that same level. Don't have to operate from that same place that the same thing that was driving me. Then or what I was feeling like I was up against.

I'm no longer up against. Because I think that like realizing that that that it's over. That we survived it. You know what I mean? It's has been the biggest thing.

Yeah, it's so hard isn't it. Again, it gets back to those tools that you develop. You develop a mindset that gets you out of the mess. Yep.

“And then you have to let go of that mindset in order to get the next one.”

Exactly. And really self compassion is the main one. My feelings were not important. My desires to rest. My desire to be free.

You know, see, see these collections of why I see love the way that I see it. You know, because being responsible for other people that I've exhausted that. Or feeling responsible for other people. I've exhausted that that I've had enough time with that in my life. So being able to feel like I can be myself.

That's what's more connected to what is actually needed for me in my life. In love, in friendships and family. And so being able to be free being able to be my own self. Being able to say that I don't want this. Being able to say that I'm tired of you.

Being able to say that I need a break. Being able to say no to the project. Those are all versions of me reminding myself that I'm not a survival mode. I've survived it. We've survived it.

I can truly be free. Kiki, I love talking to you. We end every episode of on purpose with the final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence. Maximum.

Okay. And so Kiki Palmer, these are your final five.

“The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever had or received?”

Never let someone else reception of you be your perception of yourself.

Good advice. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever had or received? Oh, that's hard. You don't remember any of that. That's hard.

That's hard. That's good. Let's keep it. Question number three, how do you define a good friend? Maybe it seems simple, but a good friend is somebody that lets you be you.

A good friend is somebody that you don't have to perform around. That you can truly rest in who you are. Absolutely. Question number four, I want you to repeat this and finish the sentence. I think I think too much about.

Systems and structures. Tell me more. I'm a person that's really driven on pattern recognition. Like that's like how my cognition functions. I'm constantly searching for how to do the same thing.

I love that.

That we have us now for each other because I'm not going to be like.

“Because literally do I just, I'm always looking at the underneath underneath of the underneath of what caused that and why was that.”

And it's a good thing. But sometimes it's like take a break there. Just, just stop looking for the free sentence. The free sentence that we hear. Sing it.

What song is that? I don't know. Dad, I don't know why they're talking to me when I just thought about it. But it's like I'm always doing that. And I remember back from when I was a little bit of girl in my grandma's house outside of a porch looking at the ants studying patterns systems structures. I've always been obsessed with that with my lines the way I learn my lines the way I understand words the way that I understand experiences everything is based on that. And so it's it's obviously something I truly enjoy. You know, it's like math ontologically. It's like, you know, the experience of.

Being able to recognize what's going to come next just because you're watching and learning through what you see. I love it. But sometimes I need to take a break and just be.

And stop always trying to be out, but I don't start.

[laughter] I love that.

“Fifth and final question we asked is to every guest has ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?”

I don't know if anybody's mad about think that this would help us with all this over fact manufacturing everything like this. You don't have to be a vegetarian. Maybe you don't have to be a vegan. But let's be seasonal and have things for a period of time. Maybe only chicken this time of year. Maybe only beef this time of year. Maybe only fish this time of year. Maybe only these vegetables when they're in season. Maybe only like we don't have to help us a little bit. I think a lot about the global warming bit. I think a lot about the earth and how we can try to get something on the control.

I think it would be good if we did things marked off so that we wouldn't overdo it. And then the people getting sick. And then now we got to pump everything up because we don't have enough of it. Well if it was only for this time of year or if we had year where it's like, this is the year of chicken. I mean, I don't know. I just feel like we got to get that under control. Yes. To chill. So I would love to do something where the food is stuff was like, you know, more accessible, especially in food deserts. I grew up in a food desert. We only had a liquor store.

I remember working the first time when I was a kid with this organization called Urban Farming because they actually would go in urban areas and farm because there was no access to actual food.

Everything was just processed package stuff. And so like, you know, I wish that those things was free. I wish that people could have free food that grow. They should be able to grow it where you are and you shouldn't have the paper. I know farmers was coming for me. I'm not coming for you farmers. I'm not saying you deserve to be paid. I'm just saying, maybe the government could help us out. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's going to be the best. I've not had this much fun on the podcast ever before. I have to get it to you. If anyone else who was the most fun you've had on the show, it's with you without a doubt. I mean, that's been seven years too. So when I say that, it's a real statement.

“I just knew that's why I was telling everybody because I was working in day and I'm like, uh, it's going to be so great with Jake, because he's going to be talking about something so interesting. I just knew and so you didn't disappoint.”

Good. I'm glad. We'll come back anytime. Yes, I mean, thank you. You're the best, I see. It's so much fun.