Layla Taylor EXCLUSIVE: The Truth She's Finally Ready To Share

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Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now, there's a new and exciting way to start your

journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, How To Copy. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on air chats. Open your free eye-hot radio web search, Joy 101, and listen now. Joy 101 with How To Copy is presented by CVS. Laila, you came here today because there's something you haven't shared.

It's something that I have known since I was little. It's just something that I honestly didn't really know how to formally address for a long period of my life. We're only on this earth for however long we are here, and I'll be damned if I'm not able to be fully who I am. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. My guest today is Laila Taylor.

Many of you know Laila from her show, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, where she shared her journey through motherhood, divorce, dating, and navigating faith in Utah. Today she's opening up about experiences she hasn't fully shared before, and the journey that brought her into a new chapter today. Please welcome Laila to On Purpose. Laila Taylor, welcome to On Purpose. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I am so grateful that you're here

today. People know your work. They know parts of your story. They see you on TV, but you came here today because there's something you haven't shared before, and I wanted to give you this space and

“ask you what's around your heart. Yeah, it's just something that I honestly didn't really know”

how to formally address for a long period of my life, and that it's I'm gay, and I'm bi, and date women and men, and it's just I think growing up, I didn't fit in for a lot of reasons in my childhood. I grew up in a very predominantly white area, and being a little black girl, I already stood out so much to my peers, and kind of took that on a lot more than I feel

like I realized, and I always kind of had these thoughts, and I kind of laughed about it now,

because I would be watching shows, like, pretty little layers, and I would watch, like, shame-a-tool, kissing integrals, like, wait, like, why is that hot? But I didn't know, like, what those feelings were, because I didn't have queer representation around me, of like, I could look at it and be like, okay, like, this is normal, and it wasn't necessarily that I had parents, or I was, I was more meant at one point, but I didn't necessarily have that pressure to not do that.

I just didn't have people around me that model that, and it's just something that I, for a long time didn't know if it was just a phase, or something that, you know, maybe I'm just curious, and I would just kind of underplay it for a long period of my life, and I don't know, I just feel like I'm finally in the era that I, I'm over not being truly myself, and I'm over not showing in every part of Leila to the world, and yeah, I'm very proud to be by, and I'm very

proud now, to be out, and I hope that if anyone's in a situation that I am as well, that for a long time there I didn't know if I could come out and truly be myself, I hope that they can feel safe to do so, and proud to do so. Well, I'm so happy for you. Thank you. I can't imagine how good it

“feels to share it out into the world. This is the first time you've talked about it publicly, right?”

Yeah, I haven't addressed it yet. Why was now the right time for Leila to share this? Honestly, I went through breakup at the beginning of this year, and I feel like for just a long period of my life, I was constantly living my life for other people, rather if that was, you know, being a mom,

or I was in a marriage at one point, I was married, and I just feel like I was always fulfilling

other people around me, and it honestly just caused me to never really focus on myself, and never be able to like really just sit alone with who I am as a person and my feelings, and kind of just really get to the root of why I felt certain ways, and I just kind of always just pushed it aside. And again, just I was just like, oh, it's just like a face. Like you're not actually attracted to girls. Like you're just, you're drunk at a party and you kissed a girl. Like it's

never was in a place that I feel like I could truly authentically focus on it. And I think honestly

that breakup was like a blessing in disguise, because I feel like now I've been fully able to just focus on Leila, and yeah, just focus on who I truly am. How does it feel to actually say I'll

“loud and get it off your chest? Good. Honestly, I just feel like it's like, girl, the show”

has happened forever ago. I don't know why for so long I was so afraid, but I mean, there are people that are probably going to judge me, and there's people that aren't going to be supportive of it. And luckily for me, like I'm in a position that I'm surrounded by so much love and so much support, and I know that I haven't told a lot of people around me that I am. So this is honestly they're going to be finding out for themselves on this podcast. And I know that they're going

to be nothing but supportive though. And I know that's not the case for everybody, and I'm so grateful that I am in the position that I am that I can truly be myself and feel the love and support. And I just wish that was the same for everyone. Yeah, you're so right. Who was the first person you told? My best friend Kate. Okay. Yeah, we were actually on a trip together for Miami swim week. And I was getting text from somebody and she's like, who's this person like texting you

and calling all the time. And I was like, oh, like it's no one at first. She thought it was my ex. And I was like, no, like no, I, I'm, I don't circle back with ex. It's not an ex, but I was like, I know finally I was like, Kay, like, Kay, I have to, I have to tell you, like, it's a girl, like, I'm buying. She's like, oh my gosh, like, I'm so excited for you. Like, that's amazing. So I, she was obviously the best person for me to tell first because she's just, she just knows me so well.

And yeah, she's very supportive. It must be so relieving when the first person you tell actually sees you. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like she's like, okay. Awesome. Like, cool. I know, I just feel like she didn't really like care, not in a bad way, but she's like, okay, awesome. Like, I'm glad that, you know, you're happy. That's all I care about. Yeah. Have you shared this with any of the other cost members of Secret Life? No. We've been kind of not in a bad place any of us girls.

I know that there's some friendships that are like in different places and they have been in the past.

“But I think right now we've just been kind of a little separate since just, you know, going on”

that pause from filming and everything like that. So we just haven't seen any of them in person. And I feel like me coming out, it's not really like a text of like, hey, and vibe. I feel like I kind of want to see them in person to like let them know. So they might see this before and then I'll talk to them in person the next time I see them. But yeah, right now, no one. I want from the group now. Wow. How do you hope they'll react to a, do you have no expectation? I think supportive. I don't

think that anyone would not be. I think that I looked out with like the cost that we all have our things and we're all supportive of each other regardless. That's actually amazing. It's awesome. I'm really, I'm lucky for the group of girls that we have. Yeah, that's incredible. Tell me about the first time you've realized you were into both men and women. I feel like I can't like necessarily pen points. Those kind of like those memories I said that I was like watching for the other

person. I was like, okay, like huh, or just like, you know, again, like I would have like drunk moments.

I would like kiss a girl. But I would get always just downplay it. But it wasn't until recently

actually that the girl that I'm talking to right now deemed me and then we met up and we hung out and it was just kind of like that first kiss of like it wasn't this wasn't like a drunk moment. Like this was me intentionally going into a moment knowing how I felt about women and the first time, you know, actively dating a woman that I was like, okay, like this is what I want to do also.

“So I think it was like that moment that it wasn't just like a,”

ooh, gotcha moment and like this is where I want to be. Wait, did she just send you a DM hoping that you were? Yeah, yeah. So I actually I liked one of her TikToks that it was like, I don't even know what it was. I think it was just something, it was a third shop or something. And I like liked it and she ended up just sending me like I emojis and I was like, hey, so I don't know. She just went on a whim. She told me she's like, I didn't know. If you

work, I feel like on my page, you can't obviously feel like no one would know that I am into girls, obviously not until now. She just kind of went on a whim. Maybe like a gut feeling and I'm, yeah, I'm really gotcha that said. Yeah, that's awesome. Wow, look at you. That's like, you know, you haven't even got out there yet. No, that's awesome. Did you talk about such an e-growing up, like was that a conversation in your family in your home? No, not at all. I think honestly,

that's one of the reasons why I probably got pregnant at such a young age. I got pregnant when I was 19 and I feel like it wasn't necessarily something that they avoided because I feel like

there was like some moments that they would make small little comments, but they never really

sat me down like ever had like to talk about anything. So I kind of just figured out everything on my own. Well, when you look back now at that time, what do you wish Little Layla had? That was different. I think just a little bit more support. I think I spent a lot of my childhood hiding things from my parents because I was just really afraid of their reactions, just even small small things. Like I lost my virginity when I was 15 and that was something my parents probably

still to the state don't even know. And I was very terrified to tell them like little small detail. So even like these when I started to have these feelings and have, you know, these thoughts,

for such a long time, I felt like I had to stay closeted because I just didn't have the support system around me that I wish, you know, either child that I did have. And was that around the same time as Mormonism came into your life as well? Yeah, so I converted to the church when I was 16. Wow. What was it about losing a virginity at 15 and combating at 16? I feel like I kind of went through like a, I don't even know, just like a phase that I was kind of rebelling a little bit

from like probably like 14 to like right before I converted. And I don't know, it just kind of

set me back on track for like a second. But I was still kind of doing that. I was still like sleeping

my boyfriend's in high school and something like that. But it almost just kind of gave me a little bit of like a moral compass. I feel like I didn't necessarily have before. I can relate to some degree because I got deep into spirituality when I was 18 years old. And I obviously went and lived as a monk after. But it became part of my life so young. Yeah. I have such a love for the wisdom I learned. And I have such a love for my teachers. But I'm not as much a fan of the institution. Yeah.

And it's just a really interesting experiences. I've got older and older and older and older and older and older than you. But as I've got older and older and older from that stage, it's just I've such an interesting relationship with that time in my life. And I'm like, what is it? What was it that you were seeking apart from Rebellion? What were you seeking at that time that Mormon is in

“met or what made you feel? I think for me, one of my biggest things, just having a very”

messy childhood where I didn't have that family consistency that like a lot of families did have in the Mormon church. I feel like I spent a lot of times that my friend's house is kind of a boy, anyone was going on at home. And I feel like a common theme I would notice between all of them was how strong their family seemed together. So I think just being 16 and being young and kind of optimistic about the world, I was like, hey, like I've missing that one thing that would make me

have a happy family one day and that's being Mormon. So I just, it was everyone around me is Mormon. I think 98% of my school was enrolled in seminary, which is like an hour block in your schedule that you can go and learn more about the church. So everyone around me is Mormon just like all that I knew. And I just thought that that was the way that you're supposed to live life. Yeah, when you look back on that, what are the lessons that you feel have really improved your life,

better to your life, things that have stayed and then the things that you're like, I need to

“unlearn that, need to leave that behind. I honestly, I feel like I didn't really take a lot away from”

my experience between Mormon. I think I would go to sacrament meetings and I would try my best to

like attend, but I just feel like my heart was never fully in it. I was really only just there to fit in

and to just have one less thing that people would notice was different than my peers. You know, like already being black and like, you know, having these thoughts in the back of my head of like liking girls, but not wanting to admit it. It was just like one more thing and I was like, hey, if I check this box off, I'll fit in a little bit more with everyone around me. So I honestly, I don't feel like I really took a lot out of going to church. I truly would just show up to say

that I was there. And yeah, like, but it pulled me out of a really dark place. I was dealing with a lot of mental health issues in high school and obviously dealing with things at home. So it gave me a lot of purpose to kind of keep going and to have motivation that it was going to work out. So I am grateful for the church in a lot of ways, just because it did pull me out of that dark place that I honestly don't think I could have pulled myself out of on my own. Obviously,

there's a lot of things within the church that, I mean, now being openly gay, like, obviously, that's not something that they're supportive of. So there's a lot of things that like I don't love. And I wasn't obviously aware of them at the time when I was little and converting,

but I'll always be grateful for the positive impact to have me. It's such a natural experience

when we're in our teenage years to just want to fit in. Yes, exactly. I just want to belong to find a place where you don't feel different. You don't feel other, you don't feel like there's something hard to understand about you. And you mentioned then, I know you've talked about it on the show as well. Being a black woman in predominantly white areas, white experiences, talked to me about what that experience was like for you, like what were the questions in your

head or what were the things that you were struggling with grappling with internally? I think I just didn't have a lot of black peers around me. So it's just all I saw, I was just pretty blonde girls with blonde hair and blue eyes or green eyes. And I just think

“being young and very impressionable. That's what I honestly for a long time thought that that was”

the definition of beauty. I truly thought that that was what I needed to look like to fit in and for guys to like me and all those things. And it was just so sad. I remember one of my like worst experiences in high schools when I actually attempted to bleach my skin, which is so sad, that even did that. But I just thought I had to do all these extremes just to fit in. And I just wish that someone would have just told me that I was pretty and that I was worthy regardless of

what color my skin was. And just because I don't look like people around me doesn't mean that I'm any less than them. Honestly, no, but being a mom. I feel like having little boys in my own that look up to me. I'll make sure that they have those affirmations about themselves. So like I

process of even trying to bleach your skin. Like how did that even come about? I just on again, me just being little. I was like 10. I thought that if I drew a bath and I put a bunch of bleach in it and then I sat in the bath and scrubbed. It would like cause my skin to lie in. I just think I I was just very young. I didn't know how that would work. But just anything I could possibly do to like fit in. I wanted to try to do. I mean, even just like my hair. I went on to this on my show

of me kind of just finally like owning me being black and experimenting with my hair. But my

whole entire life, growing up, my mom taught me that my curly hair was just hard to manage for her. So the second that she could, she's hard straightening my hair and that's all I knew for a long time, was just okay to strain your hair. Like don't if it starts to get curly like straight and it really quick, it got like you don't want people to know that your hair is like actually not truly curly and has texture. And it's something that I hid for a long time. So I just think any

part of myself that would show that I was black. I was so afraid to and that breaks my heart to say.

“But I think it's caused me to do a complete 180 now being even though it did take me 25 years”

to get to this point that I'm so incredibly proud to be black and to represent a huge community of the world on the show. I feel like I'm in such a unique position being the only black cast member. And I'm just really, really proud to be able to represent a lot of people.

Talk to me about that journey from was it a sense of shame? Was it always it just a sense of

feeling other than different? Yeah. And then how do you get from going there to actually developing a sense of as you just so beautifully said, a sense of pride, a sense of representation, a sense of I actually am standing for something and that's more important than fitting in. Talk to me about that journey that you've been on. I mean, it was hard. I think, again, I was just shy away from anything that made me feel different. And I honestly think the biggest shift for me was having my own kids because

they're a quarter black, but either it's way, they're still black. And I don't want them to feel the things that I felt. And just seeing them and seeing how beautiful they are and, you know, I want them to be proud of themselves and proud of every single part of themselves. And I can't

“do that if I'm not proud of me. And I think that was where the big shift for me happened. And yeah,”

I mean, it was a hard thing. I remember the first time I wore a wig. I was like, oh, take it off,

like, I hate this. I just it felt so foreign to me. But I think the more I've been doing it and then more, I've just been fully just loving myself. I like love it. And I love, you know, just owning me fully. I love hearing about how your kids have inspired you to want to stand on your own to fit and really represent who you want to be and what you believe in and for them to experience that. And it's fascinating how when you're caring for a little person, there's almost like

all of these lessons and reflections that almost make sense almost immediately. I feel like it just honestly altars the way you just handle life and you go forward and just, yeah, it changes the way you think about a lot of things. You got pregnant at 19. What was your emotion like when you first find out? Oh, terrified. I actually have kind of like, it's funny now in the moment. It was not funny. I was obviously not being safe with my boyfriend.

Now, we're ex-husband now and I knew what, you know, what potentially happened if we weren't being, you know, safe. But I didn't think it was a possibility that I would actually be pregnant. And I went to an urgent care because I thought I had some type of weird stomach bug. Yeah, and they're like, is there a possibility that your pregnant? I was like, no, there's just like literally no way in pregnant. Like, no, no. That wouldn't happen and they

“ended up testing me. That's how I found out was an urgent care on my own by myself and probably”

you taught and it was the most terrifying day of my life. At that point, I didn't have a lot of family support. I was kind of not isolated in Utah, but my boyfriend at the time was like, all I really like had. So when I found out, I was like, okay, like, I don't know what I'm going to do at that point. Like, I didn't know if like, I should move forward with pregnancy. I don't know if I should put the baby up for adoption. I didn't know if I should marry the sky. I date this.

I didn't know what to do. I think I had so many questions in my head and didn't know how to proceed, but they changed my life both my kids for the better and I'm so, so grateful to be their mom, but it's definitely a terrifying experience to get pregnant when you don't really have the support around you at such like in a young age. How did you decide that marriage was the option and not to actually open yourself up to other experiences or explore? In my head,

I felt like I almost messed up some steps by getting pregnant before we are married. That was like, okay, at least like let me give my family like a chance of us being together. I think coming from a broken household and experiencing divorce and kind of the very toxic dynamic my parents had growing up with each other. I wanted the opposite of that for my kids and I think just being so terrified of being a single mom was like, okay, like, I have to marry him and now I'm a single mom. So obviously

that didn't, you know, panel exactly how I was envisioning me on it, too, but I'm still happy that we

wouldn't have gotten married, I wouldn't have had my second baby, so I think everything happens for reason. Valveline, instant oil change presents wisdom from the road. Summer means wide open spaces in a whole lot of extra miles. The last place you want your engine to give out is halfway to nowhere. Out here,

“vote oil or a weak battery is just an ambush way to happen. That's why every oil change at”

Valveline is the loyal change of glutes at 18 point maintenance check. These texture trained to help spot issues early and give you a run easy.

Change wisely. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. You can't order it, you can't far away

it or simply hope it into life. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota Kotbe. Together, guys, we'll have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people and our tame legend, sports icons, wellness experts, and everyday people will share how they find, allow, and experience joy. And I'll offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more

balanced and harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Joy after a break-up, joy is an empty nest or joy after a loss. Joy as a caretaker. This new podcast will speak to you. Listen to Joy 101 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. It feels like you've lived so much life. In such a short amount of time, whether it's conversion,

whether it's becoming a mom, whether it's moving from dating to marriage, like there's so many, I mean, when you look back on it now, do you kind of go, God, how did I even do all of that? Oh, yeah, sometimes I'm like, I don't know how I'm still standing, but I think it made me who I am. I want to take back anything that I've experienced in my life. I feel like truly I've been put through those challenges to be able to help other people. I say this all the time, but I feel like

having a platform, you're putting a position that you can use your platform for good or bad.

“And truly, if I'm able to just help one person by sharing my story, I feel like that's why I do what I do.”

And yeah, I'm just everything has led me to where I am today, and I want to change the thing. Yeah, you've said that at one point in your marriage became manipulative.

Yeah, was that something that was always there and you kind of ignored it and didn't notice it?

Was it something that kind of came later on? No, unfortunately, we had a very toxic relationship from the start. I just think that we never really met each other on a deeper level. I think it was very surface-level for a long time, and then when we got pregnant, it was just kind of we felt like we had to get married, like I said. And I just think we never had the proper foundation of a relationship to be able to, you know,

withstand being married and, you know, taking on challenges that you obviously occur when you're married. So, I think it was always there, but I've so scared of being a single mom that I was like, "Hey, this is what I have to do. Like, make your husband happy. You know, take care of the home, have the babies, take care of the babies, and that's kind of all that I was doing for that time that I was married." So, I just think I ignored everything.

“You were saying a few moments ago that you didn't want to be a single mom, that's why,”

and you were like, "I deserve to give this a shot, which is why you got married." I can't then fathom a how hard it was when you're like, "Well, this isn't working. It's toxic. It's manipulative." But the only other option is being single. What was the final straw that made you go, "No, it's okay to accept this fear." The reason I'm asking is, there's a beautiful piece of Zen wisdom that says that we've rather accept the pain we know than the

pain we don't. And so the pain we have right now when it's toxic and manipulative, it's like, "Well, that's better than leaving and being alone." And a lot of people stay in jobs, relationships, with parents' family for so much longer. Do you think you stayed too long?

And what made you shift, finally? What was it that really made you go? I'm willing to accept the uncertainty.

I honestly, I don't think I stayed for too long. I feel like I truly wanted to step away from the marriage, knowing that I gave it my all. And attempted as much as I could to put in place more healthy coping mechanisms when we're going through fights and all these things. I feel like I just wanted to make sure that I really gave it my all. And I think my final straw was just the word divorce would be held over my head a lot. And I think he just knew that that was my biggest fear.

Coming from Broken House Hold and Seeing that happened in front of me as a little girl. I think

into line of like where I think he wanted me to behave. And I think he just said it for the final time. That was like I can't keep begging you to stay with me. I know my worth and I know that like

I am a good partner. And if you can't see that then like it's okay. And I'll always have a place for him

“in my heart. I think that he is a phenomenal dad. Truly one of the best dads I've ever seen and”

witnessing him love my boys is amazing. But I think in terms of just us working out as a partner that just wasn't for us. But yeah, what was his reaction when you told him that? Like the reaction was actually the one that brought it up. And normally I would kind of fight back. And I was like no, don't do this. Like let's talk this out. Like let's go to therapy. Let's do this. Let's do that. But he just said it for the final time that I was like okay.

Yeah. Like you're right. Probably go pack your stuff and we'll start to figure out like the next step. So I think his reaction wasn't what he expected me to do. I think he normally he was just used to me just baking and groveling and wanting this to work and all the things. So I think when I finally was like you're right. Like let's let's make this happen. I think it probably caught him off guard. But I mean, I think he had to have known deep down like

enough what it been and I've had some point. God, when you finally left, I'm where a single mom, how did it feel compared to how you thought it would feel to be free? I think there was so much good around it. Like I wasn't in a toxic relationship and you know, like me, my babies got like this fun little night routine that we would do every night. But there was also so much hard things that came at the beginning of my single mother had journey.

Tell me about this. Yeah, I didn't for a little bit there. I didn't have an income. This was before the show came to be and before I started making money on brand deals. And there was time periods that I was borrowing money from family and I would be grocery shopping and I would buy $30 or the groceries for the whole week and my kids would get food. But I would eat like their scops after they ate because I couldn't afford to buy that. And I was getting a vacation notices plopped on my door.

And this was right around the time that we started filming for the show. So while all this was happening behind the scenes and I was terrified to let anyone know. So I was so embarrassed that I was like

“mad at myself. I was like, you should have just stayed married. At least at the least married,”

you had food on the table. At least married, your lights weren't getting shut off. At least married. You could pay your rent. So it was almost like a shame thing that I was why did you do this? You should have stayed with him because now look at you now. And I was trying to almost keep up a thought because I was just embarrassed to tell the girls. I don't honestly even think that some of them know this to the state like how badly I was struggling at the beginning.

And then I was showing up to film me every day trying to stop as my own face not letting anyone know it was happening behind the scenes. So I think yeah, my start of single motherhood was not good. And I'm very, very grateful to be in the position that I am now. I can't even put into words how grateful I am for the show. And for the people around me, like my team, that, you know, they believed me from the start and have been by my side throughout all of this. It, yeah, it was definitely a

rocky start, but grateful for it though. It taught me a lot. I had no idea. Yeah. That, I mean, you're saying it with the smile on your face right now, but yeah, I think it just taught me a lot.

And it taught me to be very, very grateful for what I have. I will never ever take for granted

the position that I'm in. I think it will never feel real. Even just doing small things that coming today to do this podcast and being able to buy a flight for myself. That's something that, you know, when I was at the start of single motherhood, what it had never been able to do. And yeah,

“I just, I am just so, so grateful. And I feel like that's why I'm able to look at it, you know,”

positively now is that I've seen how hard it can be. And I'm just really grateful that I got to the other side. Talk to me about a night during that time, which was the worst night. Like, the memory that when you think about it, you are at rock bottom. I don't even know. There's just so many nights that I would just sit there just thinking and questioning how I was going to keep going for the boys. And there's time to, like, I was debating just texting my accent, like, hey, like, I need

to take the kids and I might need to go move into my sister. Like, I just, at that point, I didn't know how Dick continue on the road that I was on. And it was scary because all I wanted to do was just be a mom for them and to show up for them. That's what they deserve. They're innocent little babies. They deserve to, like, not have to worry about where their next meal was coming from. And it was hard and scary because I just also just didn't want to tell anyone around me,

because it was just a lot of embarrassment. And I shouldn't have been embarrassed. I wish I would have asked for help from more people. But I think I'm such a, not prideful person, but it's just so hard

to meet us for help. I think growing up, I never asked for help from my parents for small things.

When I was dealing with my mental health issues, I really had no idea when I was dealing with my eating sort of issues. I had no idea. So I think I've just been, like, in grains and so little brawl to just kind of, like, shut your mouth and suck it up and it'll maybe work out. And yeah, I think just, yeah, there was just a lot of nights of just, I didn't know how I was going to move forward. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I feel like we don't realize how easy it is to end up

relationships or wherever we are, because the alternative is a path that you like, why did I do this to myself? Why am I putting myself through this pain? When did you start to be open to the idea of

“dating again and meeting someone new and how are you starting to navigate that? Honestly, I dated pretty”

quickly after me, my accent separated. I think for a long period of my life, I used to seek validation and other people really bad. And I think it was almost like, because I had those, you know, those abandonment blooms that I, you know, suffered from from when I was a little girl. I just

always put myself worth into how other people viewed me and other people perceived me and I think

I would put that a lot into my partners. So I just feel like I never really knew how to be alone. And that honestly, it would like scare me. Like, I don't have someone that I can rely on all the time, not even just like, you know, physically or like, you know, financially, it's more just like emotional. Like, I didn't want to be alone. My thoughts. I didn't want to be alone in general. And I think I would just always jump into relationships. And I feel like I would seek comments on my people. Like,

oh, just she's in a non-their relationship at their every other season. Like, I actually like, you guys are right for that. Honestly, there's a long period of my life that I just felt like I couldn't be alone with myself. And that's, you know, that led me to not be able to be authentic to me because I didn't know who I was for such a long time. Do you think you feel more comfortable being

“alone now? Oh, yeah. I feel like I honestly value my alone time. I feel like that's how I've been”

able to come, you know, to the conclusion and, you know, finally accept that I am by. And I would

have been able to do that if I was with somebody. So I really do value my alone time. I feel like it's given me a lot of perspective and just, yeah, being able to find out who I am. What was it about being alone that gave you that confidence to look within and actually be comfortable with saying that I love? Yeah, I think again, just not living for other people and just being able to fully focus on me and, I don't know, I just feel like, yeah, just not having to do things for other

people as a purple life, it really helps me. Yeah, it's only when you switch off all the noise from outside. Yeah, that you can actually hear your inner voice. And then when it gets louder, you realize, oh, that's what I should have been listening to all along. Not listening to all of these other opinions and ideas and expectations and everything else everyone wants me to do. But you're so right,

“you have to find that alone time. And I often ask people how many months in their life they've”

actually spent alone. And when I say alone, I don't mean dating, pursuing with some, I mean, where you want thinking about that. Yeah. And it's quite shocking to me that if you speak to another adult, they'll be like weeks, like people constantly looking for relationships or in one. And you don't actually get this space to do what you just said. 100% yeah, it's hard to be alone. It's hard to be alone with your thoughts and to be able to just feel emotions, especially like

postbreakups, there's people that, you know, rebound and do those things to kind of like, you know, mute those thoughts that you have and all those things. And yeah, I just think that's fairly, it's really good to be alone. So nice. One of the storylines on the show is this idea that you're not satisfied by your male sexual partners. Yeah. Was that difficult to say out loud? Like, were you scared to? I honestly, when I said it in the moment, I was just, I freaked out that the

cameras were there half of the time. And I'll just be like, oh, I'm just like, with my girls. And I just shared something I didn't think it would have the impact that it did until the season came out. And I had so many times that women being like, I haven't. And thank you for sharing this and making me feel less, you know, alone in that situation. And yeah, I just didn't think it was going to be such a big thing for me to share. And probably a good thing that I didn't realize on the

moment, because then I probably, like, oh, my god, no, wait, cut that. But I'm, I'm glad that I did, because I feel like it opened up a really big conversation for people that have dealt with that. Talk to me about that wider conversation because I think it's almost like, all those men are going to feel terrible about themselves, obviously. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't. I did get some comments like that. If you will be like, like,

I feel so bad for her exes. And like, that wasn't my intentions. Like, of course,

you're the one in the bus. Yeah. And be like, yeah, you like never made me. It was more of just like,

kind of breaking that taboo that I think, especially, I don't know if everyone feels this way, but I think for me, dating meant for so long, I would view sex as I needed to make sure in the man always was pleasure every single time. And like, I don't really matter as long as like they're good and taking care of them. Like, it's good. And like, that's all in my head. I thought sex was for such a long time. And it opened up that conversation. I feel like a lot of people felt the same way.

And yeah, it's such a fascinating conversation because of how patriarchal society is wide us, how porn is wide us. A lot of that is so wide that way and geared that way, that sadly naturally

way in condition to think that. And then like you said, women end up getting trained that way. Yeah. And then you end up in this position where until someone calls it out. Yeah. And I didn't realize that it was like a thing. I just, I was like, I didn't even know what

it felt like because I didn't have never experienced that. And knowing that like, people were like,

oh, no, like, my boyfriend makes sure that every single time I do, I'm like, what are you talking

“about? Like, I just never experienced that because I just didn't think that that's how it worked.”

And I think it also relates back to what I said earlier. Like, I didn't have like the birds and the bee conversation with my parents. Like, I didn't know how any of that worked. And that thing that probably led to that as well of me just having this pre-conceived idea of what sex was in my head for such a long time. It's almost like when you pregnant from having sex with the first time you actually. Honestly, yeah, because like I knew what it was like, I know like how

sex should like end. But like, I just didn't know like the details I got. Yeah. Yeah. Sex education and America obviously isn't getting any good enough. Yeah, it's cool. Like it's, I think about that all the time. I'm just like, how is it that it's taught so poorly in schools? And no one really has a clue. Yeah. I didn't get any sex that class is growing up. Oh, you didn't. Not at all. Not one. Yeah. So I think it's because of where no. I think maybe where I grew up. Yeah. I was again like

very predominantly Mormon and I just think that again, people a lot of people think that if you

“don't address it, then like people won't be curious about it. But I think if anything, at least”

from me and my perspective being very young and having sex for the first time, I think it made

me more curious if anything. So I think me going now being a parent like I want to address these things when my kids and they're dressing like we're all going to have those urges and like this is what you do if you're in this situation and like teach them how to have safe sex and all the things. So again, I think all my experiences in life have just really led me to rewire my brain on how I want to be a parent and hopefully, you know, other people

same thing because I think yeah, my faults. I not that they're faults, but I think those experiences have led me to want to kind of do things separately. What's the Mormon approach to sex? Don't have it until you're married. Okay. Yeah. But then still kind of the point of sex a little bit when your Mormon is just to procreate. Right. Not really for the enjoyment. I don't know, maybe some people would like argue differently with that. But I know like a lot of

members of the church that don't even have like toys or like they things like that, like they it's just literally just to make babies for some people, which is unfortunate. I think it's, you know, a great thing. And do people actually follow through with that? With like the people in the church actually stay strict to that. I think so. Yeah. Like there are a lot of people I know, you know, the first time they have sex when they get married and they get pregnant really fast

“and all the things, which I also think is, you know, that's what we're taught is to just make babies.”

So I swear in a lot of religious institutions, the opposite where it was, there was the rule of no sex before marriage. And then there was the same as what you're saying, only for procreation. But the majority of people were still having sex. They just went tell anyone. So then there was like this shame and guilt attached to it. And everyone's pretending. Yeah. But saying that they're not because that's what the standard is. And it's fascinating to me how you kind of get stuck in these

anti-authenticity loops, where you think you're being authentic because you're trying to live up to this ideal. Yeah. But then no one's actually living up to him or all pretending we are. So

I've always found it so interesting how humans, because this isn't about, it actually isn't about

religion or god, it's how humans can gather to kind of set a standard and people eat the pretend to live up to the standard or they don't know what to do with it. Yeah. And they fake it kind of keeping up with the Jones is like, it's like a phrase that we have and you taught that everyone, you know, we all have our secrets and like our things that we don't share. And it's just kind of to keep that facade that you, you know, are this perfect member. Yeah. When did you let go of that wanting

to be the perfect member? I haven't been active probably for four or five years now, but when I was married, me and my ex would go sometimes like hearing there, but we weren't really active members either. It was again kind of the same thing to kind of keep the facade up. And you know, keep with what we thought we had to do. But when we separated, I was like, okay, like I finally am like, I'm able to not have to keep up the facade that I know that I truly don't believe in, which was, yeah,

those nice. How did you decide that you were finally ready to start being women? I don't know, like there's like an exact moment that I remember like it just like dawned on me. I think just it felt right. But did you feel like there was, you said earlier, like there was this sense of, you should have done this the whole time? Yeah. Like is there a sense of like last time

obviously I wish I would have, you know, came out a lot sooner. But I also think I was going through so much that it would have been still swept under the rug like I did for so long. I just think the lot of things just were not more important in that moment. But just took precedence a little bit, like becoming a single mom and like things that I dealt with in childhood and all those things.

“I just think it just never felt like the right time to like just dive into it. And I think”

honestly just like the concept of coming out in general is just kind of something that I've never

really understood. And obviously like I can hold space for people that like are taught either and their homes or like in their religions that you know love is between a man and a woman. But I think the concept that we're all just born straight is something that like I've never been able to fully like conceptualize and coming out and just having to say like I like girls and boys is just I never could see myself like sitting down at a podcast and saying this but I also

understand like the position that I'm in that there's so many people that look up to me and maybe resonate with my story and if I can help someone feel just more comfortable to be true to themselves than I want to do that. But yeah I feel like I just never could picture myself like coming out in this way just thought that maybe I would just show up with the girl and then people

be like oh and I feel like yeah what about it. But yeah so I just think I just never had like an idea

of my head of like when it was going to happen I just think I just always thought it was going to happen at some point. What was your like biggest fear in your mind with what it would feel like to come out? Like what was the thing that you were like I keep getting close about to say it. I'm about

“to act on it but I just keep blocking me. I think it was just so foreign for me because I you know”

dated for meant for so long my whole entire life and that's all I knew like I obviously had like you know experiences with my men but like I never in depth you know got to know woman on like intimate level and all those things I think for me for so long it was just very foreign and scary but I think you know you can't get over that without getting through it and I think I just was like okay like you know that you are stop being like scared of like the what ifs and like the unknown

and just you could just got to dive in so. What what surprised you about getting women compared to men. Oh my gosh everything not like surprised me with like all righty just like more like emotionally aware about certain things and very patient I feel like at least who I'm talking to right now she's just been very understanding and kind of letting me take this at my own pace because it is just all foreign to me and it is so so new and yeah I just think the level of like

understanding and just like being there for me yeah. How do you feel about certain people who may disagree may not be happy about it may have different views like I'm sure you've thought about

“that and had to think about it. Oh for sure. Oh for sure. Yeah I think I have tried to like play”

by the books you know in certain ways I feel like looking back on like my experience even on the show I feel like season one and season two I tried so hard to do everything right and I still had people that hated me and now you know being more vocal and being more outspoken I still have people that hate me and I just think we're only on this earth for you know however long we are here and I'll be damned if like I'm not able to be fully who I am and if you don't like that then that's

okay and I can understand if like you were raised a certain way and you have certain values and standards maybe but I think for me I just yeah I just it shouldn't bug you if people choose to love whoever they want to love. I think it's just it's nobody's business at the end of the day. Yeah is there any of it that does affect you or get through to you I know I know for me

there's always there's always something that kind of just like creeps through and you're like

oh man like I just I wish like I always say I wish I could sit everyone down and tell them what my intention was and how I feel and who I am and if they got to spend like an hour with me then maybe they'd feel different but is there anything that I ever just like get to you sometimes and you're like oh this keeps me up and I think the only insult that people can ever say to me that like actually like is like all that hurt a little bit is anything to do with parenting I think that's

like the one thing that I'm like I'm so protective over my babies so that's something that like I didn't get growing up and I think that's the one thing that will always just kind of hit home as if someone says something about like my parenting I think everything else like looks say what you want to say now if I'm being gay and that offense you say what you want to say but I'm like my babies don't say anything about them ever. Yeah I feel and I feel like the internet is good at talking

about everyone's babies and mothering mother kind of parenting I feel like I get it's so I can't imagine how hard that is as a mom or a dad or a parent like I can't imagine how difficult that is because everyone's kind of telling you like this the right way and that's wrong

for every single person like every child is different every parent's different and there's no textbook for how to parent properly there's no textbooks of how to handle situations of you know how to just be a parent it's hard it's it's challenging every single day it teaches me new things about myself that I didn't even know before and yeah I think that's the one thing that I'm like just

parents we're doing our best and ultimately just as long as your kids health and you know mental

health is being protected and they're happy and healthy that's all that matters if your service lives on trust the text with the train that's us 270 hours with zero complaining they train under the food they train down in the pit 270 hours means they're trainings legit it's the smart choice for smart folk and

“honestly joy is essential and it's also elusive you can't order it you can't borrow it or simply”

hope it into life but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence joy 101 it's a new podcast hosted by me how to copy together guys we'll have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people entertainment legends sports icons wellness experts and everyday people will share how they find allow and experience joy and offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life if you're craving inspiration support

and useful tools to maximize your joy tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats joy after a breakup joy is an empty nest or joy after a loss joy as a caretaker this new podcast will speak to you listen to joy 101 on the iHeart Radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts you've mentioned that for your kids right now you've talked about health and mental health a couple of times what do you do for yours and your kids health and mental health like what are the

priorities definitely a lot of affirmations i didn't really hear a lot of that growing up i feel like i honestly had very negative self worth i don't think i know i had very negative self worth for a long time because i felt like i heard the opposite lot growing up even just small things like my mom would be looking in the mirror and she's like oh i'm so fat or or this or my dad

would say you know mean comments my mom so i just felt like i never heard positive self talk about

themselves or others around them and i think my biggest thing for my boys that we do like affirmations that like i had them sit in front of the mirror and say like i'm handsome and i'm smart and i'm loved and i'm cared for and like all these things that kind of just like sat their mind already

“of just being grateful and let me themselves i think that that's just so important and that”

honestly can set you up for success in your life and so many ways whether that's you know your career path school confidence and sports you know confidence in relationships just so many things i just think that uplifting yourself is so so important and so under valued and i just think that that's like my biggest thing of my boys that just want them to love themselves and love everyone around them and just be good people that makes sense and when you said self worth

i was wondering talk to me about the moments in your life where you experience low self worth a lot of it stemmed from like i mentioned just growing up just being the only black kid in a room full of 30 students and i'm the only only kid there that's black i think that triggered a lot in me just

“not valuing myself in my individuality but i think also i struggled with an eating disorder”

throughout high school and then it resurfaced here about probably a year ago and i feel like i'm kind of in remission from it right now and i'm really proud of myself for getting that to that

point again but i think i've always had a very jaded perspective of you know my worth then

my image and all those things and i think i'm finally in position that i am realizing that like again those those negative self talks can affect my children and they view their mommy as beautiful and kind and you know all these good things and i want to be able to say those things about myself back and i try to look at myself as like a little girl that i would never like see a little girl saying they're like you're ugly or you're fat or you know when like

you got school like i would never do that so i tried to talk to myself as if i was like that little girl i have such a concern for young women right now especially in terms of what they're

we're going backwards like we haven't gone in the right direction and i kind of imagine what

it feels like to be a mom and have kids and whether they young boys or young girls or young children that are having to crop right now and be exposed to all of that i'm like i'm sure you feel so protective but also what do you do yeah i think it's an out of wool but hopefully setting up with the right tools to handle those things properly i think is what i'm trying to do for my kids i think i don't think i would have maybe not experienced a thing so that i would have or i

did i mean either i couldn't change the circumstances right grew up but if i had those you know coping mechanisms that were healthy i think i would have been able to overcome those a lot

better than i did so i think just being able to instill those in my boys and you know and

“everyone i think that that's how you get through those things it's just being able to”

have the proper tools to handle them yeah it sounds like you're investing all the right stuff i mean you can help right what i find phenomenal is just it just shows us that as soon as you feel responsible for someone else you realize how valuable it is what you put in your mind your body and everything else right like that's what it comes from as soon as you realize that your actions affect someone else you start to take so much more accountability and

responsibility for everything you eat consume read listen to yeah honestly even though even on that too like having a platform as well i think that there's so many you know young women that watch our pages and watch the show and i when it went to affect them and have my poor choices affect them as well and they you know mirror those so i think being in the position that we are all of us women on the show i think that again using our platforms for good is it's beneficial

for like a lot of people yeah what's your if you could say this is what i want to use my platform for right now what would you say this i think owning single motherhead and being proud to be a single mom owning being a black woman owning being a woman and now owning being a vibrant so yeah i think

“just being truly authentic to like for yourself i hope that that's what people take away from my”

page yeah have you spoken to your partner and potentially even your children about your new relationship they aren't really involved with it right now i think obviously i'm still kind of exploring and kind of trying to navigate this so until i feel more steady because it's not like i'm gonna change my mind like i know that i am i think i'm just gonna kind of just handle on my own until yeah until the time feels more right yeah and and at what's co-parenting like

in the situation you were talking about how your x isn't great dad yeah so good to the boys like

what is that set up look like for you right now we're just finally in a place that the motions have

died down you know the initial adjustment period of like getting into a good swing of things with co-parenting has finally like sat in and i think that at least i can say from my behalf i just i want the best for him and i think we're in a really good place with co-parenting that we just we want the boys to be happy and we're doing that you know coincide next to each other and i think that yeah we're in like a good rhythm which is nice yeah if there's someone who's listening

right now and they're struggling to come out they're struggling to leave a toxic relationship what would you say to them i think for me personally i think i've just been in survival mode like my whole entire life rather if it was surviving my childhood surviving becoming a single mom surviving now single motherhood surviving my eating disorder surviving just all these things i

“just feel like i've just constantly been in fight or flight and life is not meant to just be”

survived you're supposed to enjoy life English was to limit to its fullest and i think to do that you have to be authentic and fully yourself and it's scary and it's hard to do that but who are you living your life or if it's not for yourself and i you know it took me 25 years to fully be completely proud of every single part of myself and i wish it happens sooner but i think everything happens for reasons so i just think if you're out there and you're you're afraid

or you're scared be more scared of not being who you are i think it's like my piece of by say how do you know 25 you're very wise and strong i think you're just so coherent and i like what like how did you just say that like you it's unbelievable why i'm just like you squeezed into 25 years i know i'm like i know a little bit of a break i don't know i'm like a little bit less challenges please i'm just going now i'm i'm grateful for everything that i

gone through i think it made me who i am but also it's like you're saying i wish i landed sooner but

65 and they still have a come out so i think i'm very grateful that i felt safe enough at this

point to do that and i hope that for everyone yeah did you talk to other people who would come out and ask them about their experience like have you i'm not really honest like no one really like knows i just think i got like i mentioned earlier i think my thing was for a long time i just i didn't know how to do it and i just thought that one day i would just did a girl and just be like hey this is this is my girlfriend just you know see how people would react there but i the platform

that i have just i want to be able to help people that are in similar situations and i think that's why i wanted this to happen the way that it is right now to just be able to help people are there any other friends that you know that have come out or people that you yeah i have so many

friends that are in the community as well and the people like had do know have been like nothing

but supportive and just like so excited and there's like you're connecting with another soul it doesn't matter if they're a guy if they're a girl it doesn't matter we just want you to be happy yeah what are you most excited to do now that you're out and oh my gosh able to say i love make out with her in public and not have someone feel like what is going on is that late from secret life so the girl just yeah just be able to be like fully me and on it i'm sure after

“this hopefully you feel safe and in i think i think that's what i was wish for people when they're”

making big changes in their life and making these moves is that people feel safe i think that's something everyone deserves for their choices when people are not breaking the law or doing something wrong or it's almost like can people just feel safe for their choices that are true to their soul and their heart and i i really hope later that you feel safe and that you know you get to explore the life and experience the life that you really really want thank you i appreciate that so much

later we end every episode of on purpose of the final five these questions have to be answered in one sentence and so they're there's a final five question number one what is the best advice you've ever heard or received your love for yourself has to be stronger than your desire to be loved that's great advice who told you that i think it's a really good one i think it applies to a lot of things so say it again your love for yourself has to be higher than your desire to be loved that's

great i love that great piece of advice that's an awesome one never had it second question what

is the worst advice you've ever had or received i think it relates powerfully back to what we were talking about earlier that i used to be in a toxic cycle of constantly you know putting my work into other people and being in a lot of relationships i think one cheesy saying that when you're going through break up with feeling people throw this around like casually they're always like

“the best way to get over someone is to get under somebody else so that one oh my gosh no take time”

to yourself girlfriend pick up a book or something i'll have you i don't know that's great that's what a great answer okay question you're killing me yeah you're killing me people usually struggle with that one that's a great answer question number three how do you define a good friend who i think someone that loves you through all stages every phase of life and every phase of life yeah no chapter every challenge just everything yeah um question number four i'm going to add two parts

of this uh repeat off to me and finish this about overthinking so repeat off to me and finish the sentence i think i think too much about i think i think too much about perception and how people give me is that something you're still working on right now yeah i think that's something like and the space that we are in i think that's something we see every day you know people's opinions of us and it's hard to not take things to heart but i'm just yeah stepping into an era that

i just want to be authentically me and you either like it read out so yeah yeah i could for you i love that okay fifth and final question we ask this to every guest who's been on the show if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be you're not allowed to convert to Mormonism until you have a greater understanding wow just kidding no i like the idea that you can't i i get the point you're making as you can't make a commitment

to something without actually knowing enough about it yeah because was it was it you i'm assuming

“it was easy it was five lessons you have to do and then you just agree at the end if you”

want to and i had no understanding of a lot of things i feel like i get the question a lot of like oh didn't not did you not know about the history like this about that and i was like no they did not teach me that and my lessons they were teaching me like very minimal so yeah yeah i mean that's all history everywhere i feel like everything they teach yeah that's that's a good answer i let it hell thank you so much for your time your energy i'm so grateful you came all the way here i'm

thankful to have this conversation with you i feel so lucky and appreciate so much that you chose

our community and everyone else that sees this podcast and hope you feel the support i know that

the glad it was in a lay on my favorite event of the year like the community is just on the

level one every year when i go to that event or every time i have been sorry not every every time

“i go to that event honestly the community is just the most fun i don't know if you've ever been”

no i'm sorry i will be there i hope you had to go yeah it's awesome thank you so much thank you

if you're feeling inspired by this episode you won't want to miss my conversation with wickets Cynthia Arriva we are afraid to let a person go and we need to be okay with things people go we don't know what path people are walking on when they walk into our lives we might just be a stepping stone

“in their path just like stepping stones in their life joy is essential and it's also elusive but now”

there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence joy 101 it's a new podcast hosted by me hoda copy if you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy

“tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats open your free i-heart radio”

app search joy 101 and listen now joy 101 with hoda copy is presented by CVS this is an i-heart podcast. Guaranteed human.