WHCD Shooting Aftermath, Musk and Altman Face-Off, Spirit Airlines Bailout

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Support for the show comes from Arthur Miller's death of a salesman. A New York Times critic's pick, it's a perfect salesman, a triumph, says the New York

Times. Ben Brownley says Miller's classic has never before stunk quite

so acutely or so beautifully. A haunting dream of a domestic quartet, a Nathan Lane, Lori Metcalf, Christopher Abbott, and Ben Aeros. New York Magazine says Joe Mantello's perfectly calibrated death of a salesman lands like a heymaker to the temple. Now on Broadway. I would say you are the wind beneath my wings, but really you're not. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the

Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher with my annual cold. Uh, seems, it seems to be semi-annual. See the time it's, it's kids. Yeah, it is, but I haven't gotten sick for a while, actually. Yeah. It's been a while. Very long.

“I even remember I got sick all the time when they were babies. I do remember that.”

Yeah. So I'm, this is going to sound very moha, but I think I've been sick two

or three times. This is an adult. I'm convinced it's because I never went to the doctor

and never had antibiotics as a kid. Oh, interesting. Well, yeah. I get sick on the dime every ten years. Really? Really? I don't know. I could check. I don't know if I could get for some time. But no, my point is, I, I couldn't tell you the last time I was sick. Oh, I'm trying to thank you. I don't know. Maybe it's just a hall over. I don't know. Yeah. That's, no, that's weekly. You had COVID, and I never did. I did have COVID, but I

wouldn't have known I had it. I never had COVID yet. That's wild. I know. Yeah. You couldn't go to Germany, do you remember? Oh, yeah. Because I tested. But the good news was, well, I realized, I tested positive the afternoon. I spoke to a jam-packed room of people from Brazil at a speed gig. So I definitely gave the, I definitely gave the majority of South Polo COVID. Oh, that's nice of you. Yeah. It's a kind of you. And you know, we'll be

having to endure. You'll have to talk more. What is the price that won't be any different? I feel same. That's passive aggressive. 70, 30, 70, 30 brought that up. I do 70% of the words,

“80, 30. That is actually true. You're a better interviewer. That's why. That's true. And I'm a”

narcissist who's robust. Um, anyway, did you have a good weekend? I, uh, I was around Washington during this White House correspondence dinner thing and it all went well until, uh, it didn't until it didn't. It was a spectacular weekend here. I London when it's nice out. You know,

cities, an upside to cities that aren't always sunny. Um, is it when the sun comes out? The whole city

comes a lot. It's like Chicago in the summer or when I mean, it is, if you're an LA and it's nice out, no one cares. Right. But in London, I was, I spent a lot of time in the park with the dogs and the kids. And I have, I have, I have my boys this, this week. We've parted you go to the regions park. Beautiful park. Oh, it's spectacular. Right. Um, anyway, let's get to the news. As we record, Cole Thomas Allen, the 31-year-old suspect in the White House correspondence dinner shooting is set

to be arranged in federal court. He'll be charged with two counts of using a firearm and one count of assault on a federal official using a dangerous weapon. He was attorney for DC, Janine Piro says more charges are expected. Allen was arrested Saturday night after running through security checkpoint at the Washington, Helping and exchanging fire with law enforcement. Um, President Trump and top officials were rushed out of the room. Well, journalists and other attendees

to cover under the tables is up one guy who kept eating his salad. Um, the motive is still being determined, though, Allen appeared to be targeting Trump with the administration officials, but not cash but tell for some reason. According to his writings, he also mentioned lax security and that he expected more security there. He was a guest at the hotel and he walked very close to the ballroom. I have been there. And various people are debating it, but he was very close.

He's right before the stairs that you go down into the ballroom. Um, having been there.

make of the coverage? I was, I was, there's some people did a great job, but it's worth noting, by the way, the President, Cabinet officials and journalists experience Saturday night is something that many Americans face every day, especially school kids, though, without the protection of the secret service. So this was the finest protection in the land and it didn't really work as well as it should have, um, although nobody got hurt except for one officer.

I was shot, but we'll see what happened there. Your first thoughts? Well, my first thoughts are so much superficial. That is the brand that is the U.S. that's just eroding around the world. You know, Putin isn't chased out by a gunman of a haul that's supposed to be a social gathering. It's just, America comes across as a rogue nation that is chaotic and has no control internally. But immediately, I don't think, I don't think it's fair to say that the President is so

“incendiary, that this is his fault. Nor do I think it's fair to say that the Democrats being”

critical, the President raises escalation of violence. I think at the end of the day,

you have a large cohort of, of usually young men who have a mental breakdown or a psychotic break and then they have access to firearms and they typically go after and what they believe will be a restoration of social capital in a heroic act of violence. They go after very, very famous people. And the thing about Trump and I'm not saying his fault, but it is just a fact, he's in everyone's fucking face and in their brain all goddamn day over and over and over.

He's like, the biggest psychological tax cut in history would be if we elected a technocrat who may be checked in once a month. But it wasn't in your face every fucking day and dominating

the table conversation in dinner. And so the most famous people will always unfortunately be targets

that that mental illness will manifest in more shootings as long as people have access this type of access to guns if he had tried to fly, he wouldn't have been able to do it, but you can cross state lines on a train with firearms. Also my first, and I'll let you go, my also my first reaction is when I heard about this guy, a Caltech grad who is teacher in here. He's a very good writer by that. And he's very eloquent, you read his manifesto and it's like, she's, I don't agree with it,

“but the guy is, it's just such a tragedy. His life is ruined and to see, to see an event,”

I think the event is fucking stupid. I was invited last year. I've no desire as part of what I'll

call the French alternative media show up and have basically a hijacker lecture me about air safety.

I do not understand how people in the media go to a go to a celebration entice to hear a man say you're fake news and you're, I have no idea why anyone would shoot kudos to the New York Times who does not go. There were times reporters there covering the president in the pool, which seems perfectly appropriate, and he could travel with him wherever he goes. But I have to say, I just, I covered it as back, as I've noticed, you said I covered it back in the Truman administration.

I mean, I mean, the Roosevelt administration TR. I got that wrong. I'm sorry, it was, um, it was the, yeah, that's right. I was going to was looking for a friend. I couldn't remember FDR. So, um, I, I, I, I hated it when I covered it 20 some years ago. I thought it was such a suck up between, um, public officials and the media. I don't like the gridiron dinner. I don't like any, I hate it covering them. And even then, it seemed like so, um, it's one of the reasons I left

Washington sort of the, the cozy relationship. And now he was going to come in and salt the first of all, everyone in that room through this cabinet has taken shots at the press in a really repulsive way. And even though other presidents have been hostile to the press, this is explicit attacks. And so he was ready to, and he even Carol and Levitt said it. He's some shots will be fired. That's the last thing she said, like minutes before this happened to a media person. And he was going to

attack everyone. And I was thinking, I was talking to a few people there. I'm like, what do you going to do? If he starts directly attacking you or your company, you're going to get up and walk

“and really gross and cross way, which he was planning to do, I believe. Um, and then, of course,”

he used the opportunity for propaganda every single one of his lackeys, message the same thing about the ballroom. We'll get to that in a second. Um, and, and it just is this sort of, and I thought the press were especially lap, lap doggy throughout, and also performative as influencers, three people stood out as doing their job, which was wolf blitz or who happened to me near the gunman. He just called in from his phone and he said, what happened? That's it. He didn't

there was anything but his job to say to tell CNN what happened. Same thing with Sarah Sine,

her very calm. Same thing actually was Stephanie Rule. She just gave the facts tons of people both online, especially online and on, on the air. We're like, this is how I feel about this.

“And I was like, I don't give a fuck what you feel about it. What is happening? What's going on?”

And a lot of like, there was one reporter who was pointing the camera towards herself. Like, I don't know what was happening. Like, I'm under the table. I'm like, good for you. If you're going to do this, point it outward. So we can see what's at there was plenty of video, by the way, which was disturbing. But um, it just was this, like, all these media people trying to behave like and get their licks and like they were influencers. And I just, and then, of

course, the influencers were to, you know, doing, you know, all manner of nonsense. So I found it very disappointing in the press conference after they let him get away with stuff. The only, you know, at one point, Nora O'Donnell from CBS, which has been particularly obsequious to Trump, got the interview. But Nora did try her best to do like a tough question, not tough questions with pertinent questions and Trump called her disgrace. So he had just minutes, just the day before

he talked about unity. And then he was shocked. He was calling her disgrace and you're just, whatever, whatever words he uses for the press. So I thought it was a fail. I initially, the whole thing is a fail. But it's, uh, and then there was, I mean, a party I happened to have been invited to, which I didn't go to, obviously. After they kept doing the party, you know, it's just weird. But we don't, you know, in a, in a culture of violence or I can't, from it, all reverse engine

airs to, we don't have a monopoly on political division. We don't have a monopoly on mentally ill men. We have a monopoly on political division, mentally ill men with access to, disgusting sexist firearms. And also, the secret service, there's only so much you can do. If you

“want a president to go out in the public, if you want to be able to walk around freely, you're always”

disappointing thing. There are now more private security guards. There was more private security employee in America than there are cops now. And the secret service can only do so much. The other thing is this levy section enormous tax loss. One of the things I love about my school here in London, you know, what they don't have, they don't have shooter drills. Yeah. I just don't think any 11 year old should have to engage in a shooter drill. I just, something's wrong, right? And the other

tax where about to all pay it someone who travels a lot. I travel a lot to hotels where there'll be some political event or whatever or they're hosting the president of Finland. It's going to be another fucking 10 minutes to get in and out of a hotel now because part of the security lapse here was this

guy figured out a hack. And that is just staying at the hotel. Being a guest, you get past the first

level of security. Scott, you could have gotten all the way to the ballroom without that. I have to tell you, but then you have, it wasn't it easier because he checked into the hotel. No, he could bring his gun in. Yeah, but he could have hidden a gun easily. There is so little, I don't go to these things

“anymore because there's so little security. And it's sort of, and then the fact that you have to do”

security. I mean, although I have to say there was more security at a concert than, you know, than anything else that I've been to. But this should be the top level of security and then you had the whole press score hiding under tables. It's just the whole visual is so bad. And then the profit and then Trump, of course, could manage of it in the aftermath of the shooting. He was quick to say the incident underscored the need for his $400 million White House ballroom. He argued that

if the event had been held in a military top secret ballroom, whatever that is, the shooting never

would have happened. Well, no, the White House has been attacked, but still, it's not just Trump, MAGA accounts, and I said administration officials started, like acting AG Todd Blanch or tweeting about the ballroom instantly. There were, of course, the worst part about it where these conspiracy theories floating around from the left in the right claiming the shooting was staged or that they let him in so that they could create a situation so that they can pitch the ballroom or that it

wasn't, they had him in a holding room. You know, that was insane. Just a quick comment because I'm real, I'm asking this question and I'm open to learning care because I purposely tried to avoid me this weekend. The notion that, okay, this is the world we live in, both sides will try and make political hay of it. That, in fact, one use to the ballroom might be an ability to have more secure events like this or events like this in my security. To me, distinct of the immediate

politicization of a violent event or near-violent event was wrong, but that argument to me seems reasonable

tore down the house with that, and he's supposed to consult with Congress. He just wanted to jam it through. There's also a whole facility under there that nobody knows anything about it, no, probably should they, but except for the right people, but who's job it is, it's to protect the White House. There's no question they need a ballroom at the White House. I've gone there a million times, and it's really underwhelming as a facility that said, this event couldn't have

fit in that. It's too small, even though the ballroom is ridiculously large. So the fact that he took

the opportunity for something it could have never taken place there was one thing, but I don't,

I'm not, I don't equate with an idea of a bigger gathering room at the White House. It makes sense for lots of reasons for King Charles, et cetera, et cetera, bringing more people in, having more events there. Although that's the thing of it in and of itself, if you've ever tried to get in and out of the White House, that takes three years sometimes. But that's not the, it's not linked, why link it suddenly here, and it just seemed like, oh, let's see, any opportunity of a disaster

tragedy to push for something that is unreasonable to have a ballroom. It's unreasonable how he did it.

“And then use this as an excuse to do so. I think it just, it makes us look just,”

lots of people don't want the ballroom. Most people think it's a good idea if he had done it in the way where he's consulting architects, or he's consulting Congress, and everything else instead he's now going to try to shove it through, and then the instant something tragic happens, maggot accounts, and these administration officials, every opportunity is an opportunity for press in order to, to, to either shine up himself as a hero of some sort or to get what he wants.

And that to me is not how America works. I'm sorry. I just, I agree with you. It's reasonable to think we should have a ballroom, but they could only hold a certain amount of things in this ballroom,

even at its dark, dark, gargantuan size. I just thought, you just walk away. You always want to walk away

with, this was right. This was wrong. This is who's it felt. I just looked at this and just said, this is bad. I just, you're right. There's not. I don't, I don't think it illuminates anything about

“Democrats or Republicans or the president. I think what it illuminates is our country is in a terrible”

state. And, and, okay, let me blame someone. I just, I think in 30 years, we're going to look back on the Sarah, and we're, we're going to be just horrified at how we put cyanide in our drinking water called social media and kept drinking it. And just, it makes everyone more Americans are fearful of their neighbors than Russian soldiers pouring over the border in Ukraine. Their convinced the enemy is the guy with the wrong political sign across the street from him or her. And every

day, you're taught to believe in what is a page out of the fascist handbook, which is incredibly unfortunately profitable. You're taught to believe that it's the enemy within. It's not climate change. It's not income inequality. It's not, it's not a fascist government or someone trying to invade Europe. It's not the cease, the enemy is within. It's us. The enemy is us. No, I agree with you.

“It feels very McCarthy era. And you're right. The constant nonstop pitching. I don't, I think”

the Trump has been doing propaganda for a decade now. It's a decade in our brains. And the media still hasn't figured out how to cover him. They should get back to the important things Iran, affordability, gas prices. You know, I do think the Epstein files is an important story.

I don't think it's the most important story, but it talks about corruption, about corruption,

about getting, getting kids, safe and schools. Like, if this is an opportunity to talk about kids, if they suddenly feel nervous, because they added toss under the table to understand what it's like for kids. Fine. Like, I don't care. I just think no one behaved in any way that was any way that is American to me. I just have one side now, because obviously I've been getting on these TikToks. I will say this. There was a contrast just going to this Steven Miller.

I do not like the guy. Neither do I. He did walk out his wife in a hearing. He did walk out his wife. Did you see what the other men did? Yeah. They were in. They were in. I mean, the chair lines was chasing. Yeah. I mean, I feel, I feel petty even saying this, but at least like to Steven Miller's instincts for the correct ones. Yeah. He had his hands on his wife and was escorting his wife out. Yeah. Anyway, there's no way not to come away from this and just feel a

little bit shitty or I don't. I would agree. I think that's exactly the reaction to have. I just, I would like the, I don't, Trump is Trump. He's going to behave anyway. The the same way every single time. And then he'll switch right back to nasty. Let me say the press could do a better job. And I do sick give kudos to people who just were reporting the facts. And I agree. It's a new story. But

how you feel. I want you to tell me what's happening as a news news organization. That's all.

“Yeah, report. And I don't want to know what you think of unity. I don't know what I don't want”

to hear about it. I just want you to tell me what's going on who this guy isn't due to reporting. Anyway, I love the media and I was repulse. Okay. Let's go in a quick break. When we come back, Elon Musk and Sam Alman had to court big story, actually. Support for the show comes from upwork. When you're ready to grow your team, the last thing you want is for the hiring process to become a headache. Instead of taking weeks to scout resumes

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“strategize. That's why Harvey created agents that can do the work from end to end. They build a plan”

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helping teams move faster with greater precision and confidence. Harvey, AI tailored for law. Learn more at harvey.ai. It's got the back with more news. Elon Musk and Sam Altman are headed to court this week over

Open AI's conversion to a for-profit entity. Musk is asking for over $150 billion in damages from

Open AI and Microsoft and for Altman to be removed from the company's board and as CEO I think. Jerry's selection is taking place as we tape on Monday and opening arguments are expected in Tuesday starting off several week long trial. Musk Altman and Sachin Adele as well as a big tech figures are expected to testify. I we got a clip from actually CNN legal senior legal analyst,

“Ellie Honig, who I've interviewed many times for. I think he's really smart. On what's to come,”

I thought he would have an interesting take. The thing about trial is it all comes out because both sides by now have engaged in discovery meaning they have one another's internal email's tech's corporate communications. Three things I'm watching for. First of all, what were Altman and Musk and their principles saying about AI? Do they view it as an existential threat or something else?

Second of all, what are the employees think of the bosses? What are the people who work in these

companies really saying to one another about Sam Altman and Elon Musk? What are they saying about Cara Swisher? A bet you're in there, Cara? A bet your name pops up in this trial. And then third of all, how will Altman and Musk fare on cross-exam? Because these are two guys, moguls used to being told,

looking to undermine them, discredit them, maybe even embarrass them. How's that going to go?

This would be fascinating check it out. I thought that was pretty smart. I mean it's the technical aspects of this are really interesting. What I don't understand is why this was going to trial.

“I didn't settle. The only thing I think of is that I mean up to me, open and I should have”

somehow settled with him. But there's no plus for Musk to settle even though most odds are that he is going to lose. It's really complex trial. It's a jury trial but the jurors can not decide on debt remedies. The judge only can. The judge allowed certain things to go forward that most people think are ridiculous. Most of the odds are Musk will not win but I can't believe they didn't settle.

Because the only thing is Musk loves this, he's already a villain. And when you start wrestling with

a pig, a pig likes it and you get filthy. And so I don't think it's good for opening eye at all. It's interesting I had. And again, you might be right here. I might be wrong. My initial reaction was that Musk has mortal lose and that he'll settle right as the trials beginning or right after it starts because Musk isn't doing this because he's okay. So the basic premise is this is supposed to be a nonprofit focusing on protecting the public from AI. He then, my understanding is wanted

to buy it. Or he wanted to control it. He wanted to control it. Yes. And he threw a fit and then walked out. He did walk out. And then when all men said no, you don't get to control it. He said, then I'm taking my ball and I'm leaving and he signed a ton of documents saying, I don't want my ownership in this. And then when it converted to become the leading AI platform in the world, he went fucking crazy. And he is a new company that he. But here's a guy who's very concerned with

ensuring there's an entity policing AI safety regulation, but he starts his own for profit AI. Yeah, exactly. As your the commentator very definitely said, these guys aren't used to across examination with emails. It says, I'm not impressed with you. You are full of shit. You wanted to control this. When you couldn't control it, you threw a fit. You have signed papers that are legally enforceable with no ownership. And now the Twitter when he took over tried to get out

of the Twitter deals. Yeah, this guy, he's angry that he he walked away from what ended up being the best. I'm kicking myself because I've had two investments recently that have gone bad and they needed to raise more capital. And one of the things about investing early is you have your pro rata. And I wasn't sure whether to invest or not. And on one specifically, I didn't do my pro rata. And then they figured out a way to develop these innovative turbines to power off grid AI

centers and the valuation has gone up 10x. Wow. And so you feel like I'm a dummy. And now I'm

“fucking furious. Yeah. But I'm not going to go back and sue the company. Right. Right. So I think”

discovery here, I think Musk's lawyers are going to say, you realize you can't purge yourself. It's this isn't Twitter. You can't lie. And when they he goes, this is the day before in the briefing or the coaching of him, they're going to say, this is what I would ask you. And you can't lie. And this is the evidence they're going to bring up. And he's going to go settle this. Yeah. I think he's playing poker. He does settle. Like, by the way, he has to settle the

Delaware chance record. Yeah. He was like threatening, threatening, threatening, okay. I think you're very smart here. I think that's a problem. I don't believe none of them settled. You know,

I don't I guess going a court is always like, why couldn't you possibly settle this, right? Essentially,

which I don't understand why neither of them did a great size, right? And it seemed like it I mean, it's always up until the trial where they settle, right? That's always the way. Well, he's trying to slow them down. He's trying to create doubt. The other thing. He heard their

“fundraising capabilities slow them down. But they're IPO. Musk ideally, I believe if he was in”

he's very smart, would be trying to delay the case to create to maintain a cloud. I think he has done that. I think he's an open AI wants to go to court and say, you signed papers legally for fitting your ownership and governance here. You're out. Yeah. One of the things that's interesting about it is that obviously he created some comes in our doings. Well, is that he, when he, both of them started talking about this back in the day, they were worried about the strength of

Google and Facebook and others. They were maybe in their own self-interest, but at the time it was a real, I would say a genuine worry about where AI was being developed, especially the government had abrogated. It's responsibility. So, you know, these two have come a long way. What's interesting, it's also a dual of their reputations. Now, Elon's full-on villain now, right? So, it'll be interesting

There's a lot of, you know, after the Ronan Farrow piece and everything else. The thing is I think most

juries haven't really paid attention to the Sam Altman portion of this reputation decline. I think they all know Elon Musk as a giant asshole. So, I think that probably, you know, every bit of him jumping up and down and being so partisan and, you know, posting racist stuff all over, then he's doing them more than ever recently. I think he's in his back foot on this because I, as much as they'd like to paint Sam as this oily liar, essentially. I don't think it's sunk in

with most people. I don't, I just don't, I don't even know who he is, kind of thing. Now,

“that the secret weapon here, I think, for, for Open AI will be Nadella. I think Nadella will”

reflect really well on Open AI. He comes across as very measured and I would love to be, I would love to be the defense counsel here. It's like, okay, so you're claiming you're so concerned about protection and safety. What have you done? Have you, did you go and start? You have, you're the wealthiest man in the world. Did you start another entity looking at safety or, oh, wait, you've, you've, you've started a for-profit AI and you're competing against this company,

isn't this nothing but an attempt to slow them down because you're jealous. You fucked up and soldier shares. I just, I think this is going to be a very easy narrative for the defense to say, this, the wealthiest man in the world is trying to abuse you, waste your time and get in the way of the capitalism, the small part of the, the small part of the internet. He doesn't own and he's

“furious about it. He owns space. He owns EVs. He owns, you know, a 180 character messaging application,”

but because he fucked up and sold the best corner of AI, he now wants it back. He wants everything. Yeah, he's a greedy fuck. Yeah, it's true. I don't think slamming Altman's going to work here, and he's trying to trust, he's really tried doing personally and professionally, but we'll see. You don't make them both look bad. They'll be emails that will come out that'll be like, everyone look bad. Everyone looks bad. Well, it's great. It's great for brand AI again.

The only one who looks good, Dario, whom I spent time with this weekend. Oh yeah, what was your general impression? It was an off-the-record thing, but he was, I have to say, very funny, doesn't like any of these people, by the way, but very funny, very, I'm not going to call him Steve Jaws, but he at least had range to talk about, you know, I'd re-read his essay, machines of loving grace, which I hated the headline of many, it was two years ago,

when I was talking about that. And I have to say, he's aerodite, like he was quoting from our

“Katie and stuff like that. And I think he's a, he's a very complex and interesting figure,”

and much more jolly than I give him credit for in a way. So he's, you know, he's having the time of his life because they're all like shooting each other in the hat, and he's merrily going along, being the successful one and creating the best technology. So anyway, I really actually, I'm hate to say this because I really enjoyed talking to him. I did, it was fun. He also gives, gives his good as he gets. And I like that, like he wasn't scared of questions, which a lot of them

get, oh, did you do it was it on a caroustwisher? No, not yet, but he's coming on with caroustwisher, and I told him about your interest. Anyway, I really enjoyed it. I was an enjoyable interview I have to say, by the way, speaking of Sam Altman, he apologized to the community of Tumblr Ridge for failing to alert authorities about an account of a shooter who killed eight people in whose chat GPT account was suspended for violent messages in the letter Altman reaffirmed a commitment

to find ways to prevent similar tragedies in the future. This is, it's always backwards looking,

like, oh, sorry. I don't know. I just feel like they can apologize all they want. Why don't they create services that have some level of safety or reporting despite all the free speech stuff. There's some clear theories that people have. If you had someone in your neighborhood who was doing this, you would turn them in. They would, so I don't know what to say. We had a school I was involved in Florida. We had a kid riding or drawing violent, weird images.

Next day, FBI was at their house looking for firearms. And so there's gotta be, I mean to the Sam's credit, he did what most of these guys don't do. He apologized and he's, he's claiming to want to put in some sort of safeguards. But we shouldn't need their apologies in their safeguards. There should be regularly. Yeah, pots and prayers don't really help here. It should be liability. It should be, you guys have this, you have technology that can scan

basically everything that's ever been written in history. And then start making really intelligent

has been written in history, you should be able to highlight threats pretty easily. And then immediately using the agentic layer, notify that local police department and not overwhelm them.

“But say, okay, this is level nine threat. Right. Exactly. What do you want to do with it?”

What, how can we cooperate with you? And that's where humans get involved. We, you know, they they observe it. This is just reporting possible danger. And it should be easy for these people.

But it's not. By the way, speaking of anthropic Google Plinson vests is much as $40 billion

in the company, $10 billion now. And another $30 billion would be invested when inthropic meets certain milestones. Probably smart move from Google, who is also a dominant player in this, who is quietly, I think, as more years, I said, I think Google win all this because they have all the parts. I think they've handled this really well. And I think investing inthropic, in this case, it's probably a very good idea for them. Yeah. And then what I saw, which shock me is there,

it's the deal value is anthropic at 350 billion. I was potentially, I indirectly on anthropic shares, but no, for me, about the sandbag and freed stuff, right? Yeah, about the FTX claims, which owned a bunch of anthropic. But anyways, in the secondary market, I follow the secondary markets, andthropic trading at a trillion dollars. Wow. Andthropic is now trading at a higher valuation in the secondary markets than open AI. So Google coming in here, they'll get a preference on it.

There's strategic, yeah, it's a great investment. I would invest. Hello, Dario. I would invest

300, 350 million of valuation. Okay, I'll give you. I'll give you. I don't know. It's not a journalist.

Not a journalist. I do not want to invest, Dario. But I really didn't enjoy talking to you. All right. Last thing, Matt, a plant slay off around 10% of its workforce is sort of went under the radar. Six thousand open and closed. Six thousand open rolls. It comes in these chief people officers that the move was being made to run the country more efficiently into offset other investments. Maybe that he lost 75 billion in the metaphors. But meanwhile, Microsoft will begin offering

voluntary buyouts. The 7% of U.S. employees one time retirement program will be available to employees whose age and years of service total 70 or higher. These are just stacking up these big

“tech layoffs where they're trying. I mean, I think they over higher during COVID as you and I both said,”

but this is a real tipping point to impact overall employment levels. It seems these were the big hires and now they're the big fires at this point. Yeah. So, like the, as I said, AI is corporate as an epic. It's turned off the signal that in order to grow, you need more calories. In this case, calories means employees. And I've had a hand injury gang on my podcast who's having another moment because Andrew is very early in prison about capital replacing labor. Capital is recently

labor and and he's now getting a lot of attention correctly for and he's on this whole the capital. The capital destruction of labor here is just going to be dramatic and he's pointing to these companies. You do though have to have some perspective and that is pre-pandemic meta 2019 at 35,000 employees. Now they have 80. So firing 8,000 people, quite frankly,

“takes them back to, I think, late 2024, early 2025. Yeah, they over higher. That's for sure. So”

now these companies are, the, the, the, the, the scary thing is these guys are early adopters of AI

and as the revenues grow, they're actually shrinking their workforce, which is amazing for earnings.

But if they're the early adopters and this starts to water fall down to other parts of the economy, you can see why people are scared. And Andrew said something really pretty, I thought, and sci-fi said the easiest people to fire are the people you haven't hired yet. And this is going to put pressure on new hires at a college and I, I don't want to come across as non-empathetic. But when I graduated from Berkeley, 40% of us had jobs on graduation day,

which meant 60% didn't. Yeah, and we're, we're so used to, anyone under the age of 40 or 45, it's only really known one labor economy where there's a war for talent. Especially educated talent, what's interesting about this cycle is for the first time in decades, the unemployment rate among college grads is greater than the unemployment rate among non- college grads. So I, I look at this as quite frankly, just part of an economic cycle. I don't buy the

catastrophizing. The key question is, there's no doubt. This is a disruption that's going to displace certain types of information work that can be scrutinized. The question is, how severe and fast it'll be. Because typically, when we no longer need elevator operators or we no longer need sewing

able to adapt, retrain, and find something else. Not all of them, but the majority of them. The fear here is that the fear is so severe and so fast that even if there was a potential recovery, there's going to be so many people left out in the dust. Well, that's because people were going to those jobs, right? That was where that, you know, I have to say Alex Wisher called this one a while back. He's like, I'm going into mechanical engineering and energy. He got right. I thought

he would go into computer software and he said, no way, I will replace all these things. Which I thought was pretty pressing of them. And so he's working on areas where there is, you know, things, making things forward employment. And interestingly, Luis Wisher now, they have three jobs. Because he's working on a campaign. He's trying doing cooking jobs to really interesting cooking jobs. So he's trying a variety of things which are not replaceable, right? Which we're really,

it's really kind of, and he is, it's just interesting. Like, but I have to tell you, both of them were thinking about this without my prompting. Like, where is the, where's employment going, but but young people have to think really hard down about that. And they'll be fine because their mom is rich. No, I understand that, but they're making some new class work here there. By the way, can you make their own way? By the way, Kara, how do you spot the blind man at a new to speech? Oh,

Kara, it's not hard. Oh, all these jokes now. There's like, take a minute. No, just a little second

order. I'm going for the intelligent stuff. I'm going for the stuff that takes me an hour to figure out

“because I don't know what I was like. I know how hard it was. Got it. Anyway, I just think it's, I think”

young people have to really think. Hey, I was going to, is going to massively level up some people, massively level down others. Like, like I say, this was brought up in this, you know, someone asked about the idea that we sort of could care less about working class people during the, during the NAFTA days. And now you want us to cry for information workers. People are making a ton of who are taking, making a lot of money. Yeah. And one of the things, you know, it was off the record of

one of the things, I think it's just an obvious thing. The direct point in that was that it does level up the workers, right? Because it does, it's people have college level information at the fingertips that is easily digestible, which, which was interesting. There were more new business applications formed in the last 12 months than I think in any time in history. If Alex wants to start his own small company, milling and manufacturing ball bearings for some weird esoteric

use, he doesn't need $10 million in capital and $40 billion. He didn't have ball bearings to me.

I didn't. He needs, you know, $50,000 and a bunch of sight licenses and one or two co-founders. Interesting.

“There's a ton of opportunity. The very basic axiom and the thing, the thing I think the next”

a lot of our candidates should be focused on is that if you loosely break down the labor economy or a capital formation to shareholder/investors, workers and consumers, it's pretty easy. We need, you've had a massive leakage of power, leverage, and capital from consumers and labor to investors. And we need public policy, whether it's alternative minimum taxes, taxes on shares that you borrow against, maybe some form of lowering a state tax, lowering a state tax attention. We need to

transfer a capital back from investors to employees and consumers. Yeah. And it's a fairly basic

dynamic. These three entities, investors as a percentage of our GDP, the market cap has never been

higher as a percentage of our GDP wages have never been lower. This isn't rocket science. We need policies. You talked about one, increase minimum wage, stop taxing earners as much, start taxing owners more. It's not, it's not complicated. People will create this incredible arguments that it's about things they can't control. Network effects in AI. Don't tax, there's talk about an AI

“tax. There's not an issue of an AI tax. You should have an alternative minimum tax or any profitable”

company that's making billions and billions. This notion and Andrew, and Andrew, I think gets at 70 or 80% right. And we had a really productive conversation and I love Andrew Yang, I'm an investor in this company because I have so much confidence in him. But if you start, I hate industry specific taxes. There's a lot of talk about an AI tax right now. No, have a tax, lower payroll taxes. Such that it's not more expensive to hire someone than buy a robot. Right? And have some sort of

cap don't let people depreciate capbacks in year one and have payroll taxes such that it's more economically advantageous to buy a fucking robot as opposed to hiring somebody. That's a really good point. There's just like some basic tax on there. There are people now focused on and I have to

they bring people's attention to it in a way that, because they're supposed to be the big job places. Well, the bellwriters for the whole economy. Exactly. So I think I more and more people

are thinking about this idea of where our employment goes, which is always a good thing. Anyway,

let's go on a quick break. We come back. The DOJ drops its Powell probe. Support for the show comes from NPR. Oh my god, I love NPR. NPR understands your curiosity

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of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odo for free at Odo.com. That's Odoo.com. Scott, we're back. The DOJ is ending its criminal probe into the federal reserve and it's chaired Jerome Powell, although the US Attorney-General in Peru is warning the case could be real

open if new facts emerge as usual. They always cover their fucking bases. Still a Senator Tom

Tillis says he's ready to move forward with the confirmation of Trump's nominee Kevin Worsh and with that hurdle removed, Worsh's confirmation by the end of Powell's term on May 15th is looking likely at his confirmation hearing last week. Worsh rejected the idea that he's Trump's sock puppet a how long after he's confirmed his Trump threatened to fire him. Let's just remember Trump hired Jerome Powell. He just wasn't a sock puppet and that was a problem for Trump who's

“trying to take over. I think Tom Tillis did a great job here. Now let's see if Janine Piero”

tries to do some tricks after Worsh's is in place. They could do that because they're a bunch persistent liars. So and quick thoughts? I'm glad Kudos the Senator Tillis. I think he's the reason that it was dropped and I'd like to see most of these cases continue. I love, I love the Patelle director Patelle filed a suit against the Atlantic. I would love the discovery against the

South. By the way, that trial will never see the lie today. No, he lost his last coroner.

His lawyer's going to sit him down. Okay, these are the questions they're going to ask. And so yeah, I don't but that was a ridiculous, that was law fair or that was a nuisance suit. I'm glad it's been dropped. That's just a distraction. But I also want to bring up. I've been very complimentary of Worsh. I was again rattled by his inability to state on the record that Biden won the 2020 election. I knew he was a sock puppet. I think Warren did a great job

be an independent Fed, which is key to the growth of an economy, and you won't. So was Chairman Powell

“appointed legally? I mean, at some point folks there has to be a truth. And you have to,”

you have to be willing to state that truth under oath. And they all state the same thing. He was duly sworn in. Right. Yeah. Oh my god. I know. I know. He really was a whim, but he definitely took some shine off a hand. I'll tell you that. I don't think they all feel that way. Like, even till us said to me when I interviewed him, look, I had to say those things. Because if not, I'd get run over. I'd be martyrs dead. You know, a martyr is dead. So I don't know what to tell you. And that's a

really ridiculous way to hire. The thing, of course, Trump will continue to try, he is two years to try to fuck up the Fed so he will. So Kevin Worsh get ready. You better start to find a backbone. Also, speaking of communism, the Trump administration is reportedly considering invoking the defense production act of bailout spirit airlines that would still unclear what exactly the justification would be. There's talk of a plan that would loan spirit, which is filed for bankruptcy twice

“about $500 million in exchange. The government would own as much as 90 percent of the airline.”

It's a playbook we've seen before Trump with the government taking stakes in Intel, US steel, and others, but Trump is facing pushback correctly from fellow Republicans with Senator Ted Cruz calling the bailout a terrible idea. You've said many times that some companies deserve to fail a spirit one of them. This is fucking insane. In saying our, let me get this for capitalists on the way up and then on the way down, we bailout companies were cronious. So we're a total, with that's

not even socialism, it's cronism. bankruptcy is someone who has started companies who have gone bankrupt as someone who's invested in companies that have gone bankrupt as someone who's been on an operator and investor in a company as we pull it emergent out of bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a feature not a bug. A company is the market changes and the company no longer can support the assets and obligations that has given changes in the market. It declares bankruptcy. They get an umbrella

basically coverage to get out of leases to get out of capital or expenses or debt to Boeing or sell their gates. They get out of union contracts. They get to repackage and they reemerge to fight another day. When you start bailing out companies that aren't sustainable, all you do is invite taxpayers to bail out more. The government is not supposed to pick winners and losers here. Delta American

and United all had CEOs who paid themselves $150 million in compensation due to options that were

artificially elevated because they took all of their free cash flow pre-COVID and used it to buy back shares, juicing their stock, juicing their options, see if I'm 150 million in compensation, and then when shit gets real and COVID comes and the airlines shut down, they all decide all of a sudden we're all in this together and they go fucking had an ant. They should have all been allowed to go bankrupt. And guess what? And we've decided that airlines are somewhat uniquely American and that

we need to bail out spirit. Fuck that burn, baby burn. This shit should absolutely go out of business. And guess what? In three years, it's more likely to survive under the protection from its creditors of a chapter 11 bankruptcy. This is stupid. Stupid. I agree. I don't you've said it best. I will be interested to see, like I remember interviewing Shemoth Polyhoppidue who said essentially this, what he's saying now, like he's like, no, what we really need to do is

protect these things. You're right. Them, the companies deserve to fail. That's socialism. And as Margaret Thatcher said with socialism, eventually you run out of other people's money. You went up with DeLorean. You end up with air France, where you pick national champions and keep bailing them out. Do you know what was called the air chance? It was so bad. I've been involved. I was on the board of Eddie Bauer. Would they put me on the board when they were going bankrupt?

“Remember them? Yeah. And we decided to the way the way to do it was, did you just say you liked it?”

No, I never did. I was always like I walked in because then Patagonia showed up

for something, whatever else, or REI. But anyways, the one of the wonderful things about America is that one, we let people and companies fail. And two, we give them a second chance. Yeah. And a key component of that, a key construct of that. His bankruptcy law. Yeah. It works well. It works well. It keeps everyone clean. Speaking of not clean, a US Army soldier has been charged with making $400,000 by betting on their removal of Venezuela and Leadner Meduro. On polymarket,

soldier used classified information. He's quite close to the situation to make wagers in the weeks leaning up to the capture. Polymarket said it referred the matter to the justice department. Again, of course, of course, nobody's catching the Trump people. They get the soldier who pulls this shit. Exactly right. But he shouldn't be exposing classified information. But they have

dead obvious to them who's doing this, including the Trump family, or whoever you're close

affiliations are doing this. They've got to go after a big fish. Not this, I mean, the soldier to the wrong thing. He's betraying his job. But it seems like we're picking up the little fish here.

“Yeah. But okay. I mean, my defense would be, well, our commander-in-chief is doing it, isn't he?”

I mean, I think I think a really scrappy state GA or attorney general should be swimming this guy, and then figuring out a way to have discovery at the highest levels to see if they're doing it. Because I think this is going on everywhere. Now, I don't, is it fair to say he revealed confidential information, or he just traded on it? He knew about what was, I think he was part of that team. But he didn't reveal. He didn't compromise the security of it. Well, he did. In betting on it,

he certainly did. By saying, I know the outcome. Nobody knew who he was, but he was using so sideways, I guess. I don't know. I guess. Yes. I think so. Look, it's not getting around it. It's wrong. But when people who make more money is elected officials are making more money engaging in similar type behavior, whether it's trading on inside of information, in stocks or inside. The options activity before Trump announces anything about the war in the oil market is crazy. So there are clearly

dozens, if not hundreds of people, perhaps even including cabinet members who are making money in the predictions markets. And so let's find them. Yeah. So have it, and by the way,

the enforcement division for crypto, that was one of the first divisions where they were fired.

That's right. Anyone, anyone kind of, any sheriff, anyone with a badge actually looking into the stuff has been fired. Yeah. The same way they've neutered the IRS because they're like the greatest way, you know, the easiest way to commit crimes is to make sure there's no enforcement.

“So I don't want to say I feel for this guy, but I think his defense is going to be pretty”

robust. And it's like pointing up, pointing up. And it goes back to the same thing. Polymarketing calcium shouldn't have to decide. I mean, so for example, I think calcium finds somebody for some Congress people for trading. Yeah. No, they kick them off the platform. Get them off the platform. Okay. I think that's like Ford motor figuring out that someone was going a hundred miles an hour in their Mustang and then repossessing

the Mustang. It's not up to Ford. It's up to the highway patrol. It's up to the government. They have a business. They should make sure insider trading is not being used to bed. It's unfair to the people on their platform, by the way. It doesn't make for... I think it's a government stuff. I know, but for their own self-interest, if there's all these insiders fucking with you, it's a shitty platform. Right? So they're in their own self-interest. Yeah, but they don't have.

I get it, but it's good for their business not to for people to feel like it's all game to buy rich, sons of Trump administration officials, etc. So there's, okay, to be fair, so I'm just thinking this through there's in finance. There's no your customer and to trade on a platform. They have to ensure you're an accredited investor. There is some regulation by the banks around trading. But again, all investments banks do. They all have compliance division.

But isn't it pretty easy to hide your identity? Did this guy sign up as Master? No, they can find them. They can find him. He did. He tried, but it's not that hard. But is it the platform's responsibility or is it the government's responsibility in cooperation? To alert people to unusual trades, seconds before, that kind of stuff they can do. And then I don't doubt it, but the enforcement mechanism and the penalties should be government enough.

It should refer it. Enforcement is referrals, right? And that's the thing. Anyway, not a good look for them, but not a good look for anyone, but you know what? This soldier is a cheater,

“but look, keep looking upwards, everybody, because then they, and you should, because”

lots of people are benefit. Oh, I got to say, we're going to put the wrong guy in prison. That's right. Anyway, one more quick break when we get back, we'll have wins and fails.

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Okay Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. You go first. You know, I'm going to stick in between

as the Trump administration terminated the board, the National Science Foundation's board, which again, he does all these things all the time. He's trying to hollow out any kind of compliance or over people who overlook anything, because he wants to do whatever he wants. But I would have to say, I think the media failed in this thing over the weekend. It was really disappointing to see so many people acting like taking advantage of a tragedy to just stick their

chest out and do these dramatic videos and act like they were influencers. I found it embarrassing and sad. I ran into some of them and I looked at my shoes. I didn't know what, for once I was like, I really would like to tell them they saw it. It was disappointing. And obviously, continue disappointment with the Trump administration taking advantage of it. But I expected them to do this and then snap right back into shape. So I have very lower standards for Trump administration

people, but not for the media. And I just, this is not the way you chase audiences to chase whatever they were chasing. It was really painful to watch. And I do some people were really traumatized because it is terrifying. I suspect to be there. But again, your job is to report the news.

“And that's what I would really like. It's so cool to those who did. My win. I just, I don't know if”

you're watching that mid-lear on social media. She is so funny. She has sort of has a whole new life on social media. And it's in it's so clever. It's not. She puts out so much funny stuff. And he just put out a protest song with the music video featuring her and her beaches coast our barber Hershey. And they apparently go to a lot of these kings, marches, or marches together. And I just love the two of them. I love that movie, beaches, by the way. And I just think she's using

her platform and a really, very much on brand with her. And I think it's, it does tell us

into her incredible, still incredible singing voice and cleverness. And I just really love her.

And I love her all over again. So that's it. When I was, I think I was in college. And I went with my buddy Lee to see beaches as two men do. Because he, yes. And anyways, and we're sitting in line. My friend Lee Lotus is literally the funniest person in the world. There's only two people to make me laugh out loud and want to sleep low to see other David Frey. But anyways, we're sitting in line as he used to do at the man brewing like a liner on the block to see, you know,

opening night of beaches with badmiddler and barber Hershey. And we knew it was about best friends. We knew one dies. And everyone coming out with sobbing. And we, because it must mean the barber Hershey died. No one would sob the badmiddler. No one sobbs about the other. We sing her dying. And I thought that was so fucking fun. I couldn't sob laughing. Yeah. It's like, no one's going to be that sad about that. I would. She died in the, if you

“know, but a Janice Joplin, do you remember what was that movie? Oh, no. Let me be clear. And real”

life, there will be, there are a few people more beloved than that medler. What I'm saying is in the movie. It's like, it's clear that the hot one, the pretty girl dying is the real tragedy. But it was how she died in the hole. And yeah. I'm going to go back. We should watch it together. Because I would say you are the wind beneath my wings. But really, you're not in. Anyway. Yeah. She was a very manalo with her pianist and her back up pianist went to when she was in the

Which is my favorite jokes. My partner. My partner is Polish. And on Friday night,

“I dress up like Germany and invade her. She said that that was her joke. She has a lot of dirty jokes.”

Her husband was German. Yeah. Yeah. She has a lot of dirty jokes. She used to be a lot dirty or but she's still delightful. Anyway, your wins and fails. So I got all bummed out. When I saw this, the shooting and I personally, I'm social media and to make myself feel better. I find I define some solace or respite in data. And I looked up data about gun violence. And actually,

in terms of homicide, America has never been safer. And that is to stride all the recent public

and political violence. And the fact that you get served it on your social media feed, America's homicide rate, filled by the, filled by the largest amount ever recorded in 2025. And preliminary data tracking local murder rates. Just that, that's could be get this the lowest murder rate since 1900, the lowest murder rate on record. And the FBI has to confirm this later in 2026. But the decline has followed two sharp declines in 23 and 24, making this a sustained trend, not a blip.

So while our blood pressure range is up, if you actually look at the data on a lot of levels, America has never been safer or less violent. Which has been the trend, which has been the trend actually. And but if you just watch TikTok or these videos, you would think it's chaos in the

“wild west everywhere. Also, acceptance school Scott, school shootings are way up. I think that's”

fair. I'm, and mass shootings are way up. Mass shootings, yeah. But the actual, the actual number of homicides is that appears to be at an all time low. Yeah. Also drug overdose deaths are seeing a sustained decline in the 12 months before November 2025, the US saw about 70,000 drug overdose deaths, which is a 16% decline from the year before. And in 2024 overdose deaths fell 27% the largest single year decline on record. It feels as if, you know, we did recognize or started to

move in on the opioid crisis. And we're seeing a really healthy, wonderful decline in overdose deaths. Anyways, I just, I was like to go to the data when I'm freaking out to see should I be freaking out? And upset, and I do find comfort in the fact that it does look like America is becoming less or the homicide rate appears to be at an all time low. All right. My loss is more depressing. My loss is an increase in HIV diagnosis in Zambia. A year after the Trump administration froze pep

far, which is just America, it's best HIV services and parts of Zambia, and they basically

its collapse, the funding, and now new infections are rising. Zambia had 84% of its HIV financing coming from pep far at the start of 2025, which is one of the largest aid dependencies of any country globally in the cuts, but 23,000 health workers supporting the HIV response out of work. 23,000 people working on HIV. Is this a George Bush thing by the way? Yeah, pep far. It's his legacy, his most positive legacy. Absolutely. And in clinics where services were interrupted,

new HIV diagnosis dropped nearly 30%. In other words, they're not diagnosing it and not because infections fell, but because people stopped getting tested. And for the first time in pep far's history, the program put fewer people on HIV therapy than the year before. And without rapid restoration,

models project HIV prevalence in Zambia could quadruple with more than one and a half million

lives of risk, children and women hit hardest. And globally sustained funding gaps could produce six million additional infections and four million more aid deaths by 2029. So it's really strange.

“And I wrote about this in my newsletter last week. If you want to kill millions of people,”

do it slow and methodically. And there's definitely a zone of empathy where when people are thousands of miles away, you're somewhat comfortable with millions of deaths. I bullet, this is all musk and Trump's dog and Trump. This is just, and also, it's not only the wrong thing to do, this funding cuts, it's the stupid thing to do because I'm there. What people don't realize is how much we benefit from the soft power and positive brand of America. They're obnoxious. They're

bit imperialists, but at the end of the day, they're hearts in the right place. They know people who got funding. They know a soup kitchen in Ukraine. They know someone who survived. This is why was so fucking pissed off and not pissed off. All the bullshit's, oh, I won't call it. All the scrutiny

died from malaria don't give a flying fuck the Bill Gates fucks Russian prostitutes. Like it in my mind, Bill gets a lot of haul passes. Anyways, a little bit of a diversion there. Okay. But we have, we have millions of people dying and it reflects so poorly. Our budgets reflect our values and the fact that we decided to cut a disbudget, which is arguably the best money spent,

both from a brand perception and just a morality viewpoint, million, and we forgot six,

four million people. I know it's, there's going to be millions more. Can I just say I was walking in DC this weekend? It's so funny, upper pro of this is I was walking with my kids and Amanda, and this woman was walking behind us and then gotten front of us and then she turned around and realized

“what I was. And she said, can I just thank you and Scott Galloway for talking about this issue?”

She's from USAID and she goes, she goes, I just want to say you all talking about it all the time makes the biggest difference. And I was sort of, she's like, I was laid off. The things for the thing, the damage that's been done has been irreparable in many ways. And she just was lovely,

just was, she got very emotional. And I was like, well, you're doing the real work, like, you know,

not us. But anyway, I'm glad you brought that up totally separate, like, literally yesterday and happened. I heard from, so there was this lovely young man in my fraternity named Greg Townsend. Everybody, one of those guys everybody liked. Everybody liked and we went to the same high school. There was a couple of years younger than me. I hadn't heard from him in 30 years.

“We do that segment talking about cutting funding. He went to, he went to law school and decided he”

wanted to vote his life to hunting down and prosecuting war criminals for the UN or some agency out of Switzerland. So he spent the last 20 years building cases against war criminals to try and create disincent of for people to think twice when they go out and start committing war crimes. And he got to notice that because of government cutting and in doge, he's out of a job. And like to have a guy that talented who could have been making 2 million bucks a year,

protecting white color crime for scatenarbs decided to know, sending Elon Musk, yes, he said, no, I want to create disincent of such that leaders think twice before they start killing civilians. And he's, I can't think this kid was so smart and so talented to restore much of this. Not all. And what do we do when we get the gift of these people's humanity where they decide to

apply their expertise against saving people we will never meet disincentivizing acts of war,

acts of horror. And then we cut the funding. Anyway, that's my birthday. Well, that's great. I think that's a great one. Anyway, we want to hear from you, send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nmymack.com/pivot to submit a question for the show. We're called 85551 Pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week on on with Keras, which, sure, I spoke to a stead herndon host of the new box pod cast America actually is a former

New York Times, a wonderful New York Times reporter. We talked about the show. What politics will be like after Trump and the playbook Democrats will be using in the upcoming midterms and beyond. Let's listen to a quick clip. It hasn't been necessarily, it has maybe it's become a little more progressive, but it's certainly become more activist. It's certainly become more less passive

“for I think the traditional democratic playbook. So I think those shifts are some of what we're”

seeing in Maine. And I think what we're seeing across the country. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Today's show is reduced by Lara name and soy market seller. Griffin and Todd Weissman, earning under side engineered that episode, rich, should be added to the video. Thanks, I'll share with you brothers, Mr. Vera and Dan Shalana, Shakurah, as Vox Media's executive

producer of Park Us, make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from York Magazine. And Vox Media, you can subscribe to the magazine at NYMac.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. I'll see you later in the week.