The Red Weather | E7 | “lost cause”

Her husband Mike was on his laptop.

“What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever?”

I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe, that's your home, that's your husband. Listen to betrayal season five on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the burden of guilt season two podcast.

This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to burden of guilt season two on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

you get your podcasts. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules. Segregation in the day, integration at night. It was like sippin' on another world.

Was he a businessman, a criminal, a hero? Charlie wasn't an example, a pal, they had to crush him. Charlie's place, from Atlas substura and visit mortal beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Talking to your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard. Getting them to listen to hot gossip is easy. So here's some drama you could share with your kid. Dude, did you hear about Cassian Jake? No.

But did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible lung damage and nicotine effects brain development? No.

“You don't need to gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping.”

So if you want to get tips on when and how to talk to your kids, visit talkaboutvaping.org. Brought to you by the American Lung Association and the ad council. The red weather is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to actual persons or events reflects the adaptation of real publicly available materials for creative and legal reasons.

The content of this podcast is a sole responsibility of red weather LLC and does not reflect the views of responsibilities of high-hard media or affiliates. Previously, on the red weather. A few days before she died, I got a letter from Willow. Willow was my neighbor and one of my best friends is a kid.

The central trauma of Willow's life had to do with her sister Anna. On Halloween night, 1995, Anna disappeared. Well, it was a little superficial, but I would love to see some of this stuff. I was reading the evidence catalog for Anna Trainer's case. Like this book, maybe, and then could I say the bullets?

I always said that she made that tape for somebody else an older guy.

You said this thing last week, you said, "Oh, I'm glad you're 16, at least, because I know it's because you just want me to drive." But then, it also can't be true that age is a matter. I think in order to get more information about that, I need to talk to Laney. Because, I know, it's going to be a worse conversation.

I know. I'm not looking for a choice. I'm not sure. It's Laney Trainer. I don't know, it's been used. Decades. I'm in Colorado. I could call me back pain. And I knew I had to go to Colorado.

I was over a month into investigating the disappearance of Anna Trainer. When I finally heard from her mom, Laney.

“I have lots to show you. Things you need to see.”

We traded phone calls. She agreed that if I came out to Denver, she would tell me everything. We said it date. I got a flight. I was excited. But then... I cannot believe she's going to talk to you. My buddy, Chris, reminded me.

He basically ran away with her daughter that one summer.

What are you talking about? Didn't you and Willow take that road trip up through humble? I started this podcast because Anna's sister Willow sent me a letter before she killed herself. Yeah, but it was like we were running away. Connor, our other friend, agreed with Chris.

She'd already run away. She was living in the has building. The has building wasn't a band-in-building behind the coffee shop in our hometown. I mean, I just remember you had to go through this little fence to get in. And then, you know, it was all run down.

The whole wall was open and you kind of climb around a lot of different places. But that was the spot you'd go and smoke weed. I mean, it wasn't really a party place and it really like party there. But that's where people were going about. I know she lived there for a while.

In the years after her sister disappeared, Willow's life began to unravel a bit. Drugs, alcohol, she discovered raves in San Francisco. She dropped out of school. It was definitely a rough time, a dramatic time for her. And me.

You might remember the first episode of this podcast.

I mentioned there was a moment when Willow and I dated. I wasn't sure if I ever talk about that. This was a podcast about Anna after all, trying to uncover what happened to her.

After I talked with Connor and Chris though, I went back and found my last contact with Lany.

It was an email she sent me in 1998. It was just a subject line in all caps.

“It said, "Rider, stay the hell away from my daughter."”

I am actor and filmmaker writer Strong. This is the Red Weather. [Music] In some ways, I was further along and in this case than I'd ever dreamed. I had found new evidence, a new angle, and a new hypothetical person who might have

helped to run away, maybe even killed her. The catch, I had no clue who that person could be.

Lany seemed to know what I was talking about though.

She knew all about the stalker, she said when we connected over the phone. She said she had plenty of evidence, but Sheriff Maldonado and his team ignored her. I couldn't confirm this though because the Sheriff's Department was no longer talking to me. So she has stopped to show you.

I was leaving home again at the worst time, personally. My son had to play performance on a piano recital. My wife was understanding. I mean, it's not great timing, but yeah, it seems important. Do you know where the copy of the sub-pratings is?

“You're going for a few days, how many books do you need?”

No, no, no, it's not for that. I'm looking for this very specific copy. Yes, get a candle. No. But I wasn't just looking for a casual reread.

I was preparing to see Lany. Jack Harrowax novel The Sub-Dranions was one of my favorites when I was younger, and I wanted to find a specific copy. After seeing the stay away from my daughter email, I checked the timing, and Connor and Chris were right.

It was right after a very specific experience, a road trip I took with Willow in 1998. Willow gave me the sub-terranions on this trip, and I found it, wedged in my bookcase. On my way to Colorado, I flipped through it. It was a copy that got passed around full of little notes and underlying passages. There were a few books like this in our friend group that we all read and handed off to one

another. Fear and low-thin and Las Vegas. He's Davidan.

I remember one of the first books that you lent me was Wordsworth.

It's a book of poetry, yeah, by Wordsworth. Then we started getting really into the Americana stuff, right? So we moved into the beat generation, so it was like Carewack and Burrows, Ginsburg. I think you gave me my first copy of "On the Road." I kept the copy with your notes in it, and my notes in it, and we put our names on

the front, like everybody that we passed this book along to, we share.

“And I remember doing that with a few books, yeah, I remember that.”

Sub-terranions is kind of crazy, overwrought, dense, it's about a week-long love affair that ends badly. I looked at all the underlined parts, the notes scribbled in the margins. I found my own bad handwriting, but there are other notes too. Some of them were from Willow, I know, because she had a habit of putting stars next

to passages she liked. But she was also responding to notes from someone else. Like the one that said, "Love makes men crazy," and Willow had written "Women too." Just to a section where Carrowax and Airrader jumps on a street sweeper cart, the other person wrote, "Lost Cause."

These were from the guy who'd given her the book, "Mr. Ron." Mr. Ron was exactly why our road trip was such a disaster. I landed in Denver and got a rental car. Laney lives in a suburb called Commerce City. I checked into a hotel and pulled up to our house around 5 p.m.

I could see a lady on the porch. I decided to record from the get-go. Hey, Laney.

It looks like a middle-aged driver. Look at this. That's what I am. Hi, yeah. Well, what do you aspire?

Oh, I know. Is it all right if we're recording? Yeah, of course. Yeah, I told you.

“I just don't upload my brain to the mothership.”

So, I really thank you for talking to me. Yeah, you know what? You're welcome.

Laney had always been small and she seemed even smaller now, but not fragile.

She still looks like she could live in the woods. If you told me that we would get somewhere anywhere with Anna's case, let alone that it would be right or fucking strong, I would have told you you were crazy. Yeah. Well, you know, it was a little slatter.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so sorry. I know. I know, honey here.

Let's have a seat. Oh, shoot. She had chairs on her porch. She had bourbon. Oh, a lot of this.

Oh, yeah. We're not. Thank you.

“I got the feeling Laney might have already had a few.”

I needed to tell you something, right? I was angry with you for so long. You know that? And here it comes. It's kind of a long story, but I had seen Willow a few weeks earlier.

We ran into each other at a party in Santa Cruz. My road trip with Willow was doomed from the start. And I wasn't there for so why will I not there? You are already back east, but actually, I guess you would have been home for the summer. Here's an already transferred to a boarding school in Boston.

One thing leads to another and we find ourselves in this room at this party making out.

But that was not the first time my friend was it.

No, she was my first kid. But context is everything that first time we were nine and it was a game of truth or dare. Then she stops kissing me and tells me she can't, can't through this. She's seen someone.

It's brutal, yeah, so I'm almost hurt and embarrassed because like here we've finally taken this leap from friends to, oh yeah, maybe we're going to date and then just boom, like immediately shut down, of course there's someone else. This was the first time I heard about Mr. Rome. But a few weeks later Willow called me from the Oakland airport.

She wanted me to pick her up. She was supposed to be getting on a flight to some kind of summer camp or retreat. I wasn't totally clear. But she didn't want to go. She wanted us to hit the road.

She wanted to see if we can be together. I was free and I did want to see if we could be together. There was a big part of me that had been in love with Willow from the moment I met her. So, I drove to Oakland. There were years, years, right, where I could not say your name.

I wouldn't, you know, when you picked up Willow that summer, yeah and you guys just took off your name. I thought, I thought it was fine really because she called me, asked me to pick her up because she didn't want to go to the camp.

“You know, the thing in Montana, wherever she was going, camp, you mean like a summer camp?”

Yeah, what? It was rehab, right? I should have known. Yeah, we, we found her. Willow had, she had bottles, she had all these pills, just a whole bunch of meals.

Yeah. Me and Charlie, you remember Charlie? Oh, yeah, kind of kind of. I actually didn't think I ever met Charlie, but I knew that was Laney's boyfriend for a couple of years, a pseudo-stepped ad to Willow.

She wasn't going to school, wasn't coming home, so Charlie had found the place, the place where to, you know, get treatment. We'd already been paid for it. I was like, two nights. I had no idea.

I really, you had no idea. I should have known within minutes of picking Willow up that she was lying, that she didn't want some soul-searching road trip. This was not a romantic getaway. She was all distracted and emotional and manic, totally, you know, she just wanted to listen

to music and find places to camp where no one was around, smoke cigarettes and she just like burst into tears suddenly. We spent a week driving north up into Humboldt, and despite what she'd insinuated over the phone, everything was strictly platonic. I could tell she was going through something, but I didn't want to pry, but I also was

confused and had a lot of my own feelings.

It wasn't until about five days into the trip that she finally told me what was going on.

She was pregnant. For three weeks, I didn't know where my daughter was. She didn't tell me. I hope, you know, now that you're a father, you understand. I can't.

But let me just, let me just get this out, right, please. For three weeks, I didn't know where she was. My moon beam. I thought I had lost her. It was Anna all over again, and she finally called when you left her in San Francisco, and

did not heal. I had to drive down to the city, and she was a mess. She was crushed. This was tricky, because in my mind, I had an left willow in San Francisco.

In fact, I wanted to stay at first, but Willow had decided to have an abortion, and

she told me that the father, Mr. Wrong, was coming to help her, but I didn't want to sit here and get into that with Laney. For two reasons, one, I thought there was a good chance Willow had lied to her mom that she told Laney I was the father, and two, I thought that was a lie not worth correcting, because I had a bad feeling about Mr. Wrong.

Did you hear her tell you who was? No, no clue. Right, that's the thing.

“She just told me that she shouldn't be with this guy, and honestly, I had to stop, like”

maybe it was her mom's boyfriend. Holy shit. Charlie, seriously? Yes.

I know, it's incredibly fucked up, but why else wouldn't she tell me who it was?

Would tell you, wouldn't tell any of us. Okay, I get that you didn't want to upset Laney, but why does any of this matter? Yeah, what does this have to do with Laney? Well, because of what Laney showed me in the house. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.

Her husband Mike was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life? Forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing, and immediately the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe, that's your home, that's your husband.

So keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. Listen to betrayal season 5 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Talking to your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard, getting them to listen a hot gossip is easy. So here's some drama you could share with your kid. Dude, did you hear about Cassian Jake? No, but did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible lung damage and nicotine affects

brain development?

“You don't need a gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping.”

So if you want to get tips on when and how to talk to your kids, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the ad council. I heard in TikTok have come together to create something new. I love it. We're the world of TikTok meets your playlist.

Three words that will change your life. My heart TikTok radio, the biggest hits across IHeart Radio, what's trending for you on TikTok? Tell me a sound that's better than this. Plus TikTok's most influential creators all in one place.

Search for IHeart TikTok Radio, make it a preset and stay connected all day. Segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world.

Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together, but not everyone was happy about it. Can you solve the cake cake cake? Yeah, there was a dress up in that uniform. The cake cake set out to Ray Charlie, taken away from here.

Charlie was an example, a poem. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Murdoch Beach comes Charlie's place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now, listen to Charlie's place on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

“Did you know that I wrote a short story about that road trip with Willow?”

Was it called "Friends Zone" done read 66?

It was the first story I published.

I fictionalized a lot. The characters were older and I gave the girl a different name, Opel, but the plot was the same. A man and a woman go on a road trip to run away and give being together a shot. Then she reveals she's pregnant with her ex-boyfriend's child.

I went back over the story for any clues to who Mr. Wrong was. So in the story, I'm trying to get her to tell me who the father is and this is what I wrote. She wasn't going to say, "I want to discreem.

I want it to kiss her."

“Ooh, right, just strong, more like right to a week.”

I hated him, whoever he was.

With nothing to go on, he grew monstrous and perfect in my mind. Oh, no, that is a good line friend. He was rich. He was cool. It was taller than me, older, who listened to better music.

None of that might be true, but I knew one thing. He made her happy. At one time, he made Opel happy. Older, richer, taller. Right, but see, that's me being insecure and paranoid, right?

So like that's just speculation. In real life, I dropped Willow off at a hotel near a plant parenthood and drove off, confused and sad. In the story, the narrator turns back around. He picks her up and they decide to stay together.

I left it ambiguous if they kept the child or not. Anyway, so here it was on the porch with Laney, who's like still in mourning. This woman is lost two daughters now.

Right, and all I can do is sort of lamely defend the fact that I didn't abandon her pregnant

daughter to get an abortion by herself. Yeah, I really didn't want to leave her, that was not my intention. I mean, we thought about it. I wanted to stay. Okay.

I could tell Laney didn't believe me, and I couldn't blame her. Because no matter how I described it, no matter how I spun it, I did leave Willow.

“And I honestly can't remember how it went down, exactly.”

I remember crying, I remember her crying, and I know she told me to go. But why did I listen? Was it because I was respecting her wishes or was I hurt and pissed off? Was I jealous of Mr. Rawl? Was I mad that she wouldn't tell me who he was?

Was I mad that she didn't want to make out with me? Yes, I think. Yes, too. All of those things. Is it better if I leave?

No. I need to show you what I have. It's too important. But we stayed on the porch. Laney smoked.

She poured more whiskey. Eventually, she began to talk about the tender hearts. Yeah, man. We were going to change the world. It was radical.

It was radical change. And with the kids we thought it was perfect.

“Let the woods be school that nature would be their teacher.”

But the reality was the kids, the grommets. Got older. God damn, Liam was out of hand. What a snap. And then, his mom left when he was like 9 or 10.

And then, Jones son started going to Twin Hills. Before they knew it, Laney and the other moms were driving to three different schools. Suddenly, our free-flowing groovy thing became about who was picking up who's kid. Who had the keys to whose car. And got my girls hated it.

And I hated it. She wanted a diet coke and Cheetos. She wanted pom-poms. And the fucking sati lock and stance. God, there's a girl in town.

Bailey, Bam Bam, whatever. And she would be dropped off by her mom. And she would pull up in the front of the school. And she had this white Jeep, you know, the blonde hair. And I'm the clothes.

And Anna turned to me one day. And she says, "Why can't we be like that?" And I was like, "Honey, star dust, love of my life. That is death." That is hell.

You want to live like that. You got to take the whole thing. You're going to have a job. You're going to have some man telling you what to do. Breathe in down your neck.

Laney saw tender hearts as a refuge. I was protecting them. My girls. They had no idea. How much I was protecting them.

I was coming from... Well. I'm going to tell you, I don't care. I was raped when I was 14. Oh, God.

Yeah, my dad's best friend. I'm gonna do this. Super Davis. So sorry, that's so awful. And for my parents, for Cooper, there was something normal.

You know, it was like expected.

First week of summer, Laney's 14.

Laney has a new bathing suit. So, sure, Cooper couldn't help himself. I'm so sorry. Okay. You know what?

I dad did. He went and he had a talk with him. My mom's a mess. My brother Jacob doesn't know what the hell's going on. My dad goes to Cooper.

The men had their talk. And everything's fine. Just right back under the rug. They have their talk. Cooper comes to dinner.

The next week. Fuck. You wanna smoke?

Yeah, come on. Yeah, come on. Yeah, come on. Thank you.

You gotta quit this shit.

Right there. I stopped him. Almost five years of spring. Oh, good for you. All right.

We really have a teenager. What do you have a girl? Uh, son. Oh my god, thank God. You better thank God every day.

You take him to the woods. You give him a treat on him. I do actually. I try.

“Anna turning away from the tender hearts wasn't just a lifestyle choice.”

Or a philosophical betrayal. It brought real consequences. She goes off for the old American. And life and what did it get her? It got her shitty friends, the mall girls.

I call them a boyfriend who thinks he owns her. And some other fucking guy. She wants to say who it is. And her notes are just constantly bugging her. Okay, so this is the stalker.

At first Anna complained about a guy who wouldn't leave her alone. But then things changed. All of a sudden, she's missing school late nights. Taking the car out. He wore it down.

of a bitch wore down. And she never said it was. No, because by then, you know, she lost her

gender heart. She barely talked to me anymore. Oh, hold up, hold up. Is this where you tell me Anna's stalker was Charlie? No, no, because Charlie and Lannie didn't meet until 1997. And he was, he was stationed overseas in '95, but you're on the right track. Lannie was convinced that she had evidence that could solve Anna's case. But Maldonato and his team wouldn't listen to her. They're cool and fucking bullets out of trees. Jason Park can take it. It's going after Elric.

They destroyed that man. They destroyed him. You lose your daughter, you know, but if you care about that, you want to actually do the work. Well, then I'm a crazy lady, right? I'm hysterical. Miss calm down, you know what that means. You know, know your place. Keep your mouth shut. Let the men work. Let the men do their thing. Cooper comes to dinner next week. God damn. Look at you, that's right. You listen. You're open, writer.

Okay, let's have this idea. Walking in, though, I wish we'd stayed outside. I couldn't see the floor. Close everywhere. She had rows of paper bags, brown paper bags that looked like they were filled with rocks. And there was insulation, rolls and strips of pink wall insulation piled around. I don't know. I mean, I need to go through all this stuff. Blankets, baskets, and figurines. She had a huge collection of Katrina dolls, traditional Hopi figurines.

“I didn't know where to walk, where I could walk. So I focused on those. Oh. Do you break?”

Oh, yeah. Oh, my little warriors. Yeah, let's go to the kitchen. That thing's Reebok's is here. Wow. It's my Anna collection. One box was full of early childhood stuff. Oh, the first little haircut. Yeah. Look at this dress you made. Like good. Purple and white. My star dust child. Will, it was my moon beam, but Anna was all star dust. It was a lot of homemade trinkets. There was a dream catcher. Then there was a box of

stuff from when she was older. Yeah, this is the makeup box you made me buy. Oh, were those Anna's? Yeah. It was a collection of books at Grown Poe, the Dow of Poe, the Secret Language of Birthdays. It. Yes. And there was a copy of Stephen King's it. It was the same edition I remembered reading. And I liked all that perfect stuff. But here, this is, this is the real stuff here. She pulled out big folded papers and leather notebooks.

So, okay, the first thing, the most important thing, is the fire, right? Will is rage.

Laney unfolded a map of Sonoma County. So when Anna didn't come home, the next morning, I knew that we would deal in with vindictive forces. She also had a page of tracing paper with lines and symbols. And I started to get worried. Yeah, these are here. Look at the map line. I realized too late, I had backed myself into a corner. This is the consolation

“Pleiades, you know, your stars? No. Pleiades, the seven sisters, right? Yes. So, that's key.”

Okay, now look at this. Do you see this? Look at this. Oh, they line up exactly. Look, burn here, no burn here, burn here. Willo started that fire, but there were, there were spirit

telling Laney, she was crazy and hysterical. Okay, but the real breakthrough, okay.

Later, now, this is my journal here. I tracked every session I had with Marianne. Oh, who's Marianne? Marianne was the medium. I met in 2002. By the way, I met her on October 23, 2002. Yeah. Anna's birthday. I found her in moderation, was working with the Pascoli groups who was trained by Pascoli himself. Okay, lady, I don't, I'm sorry. I don't want, I don't need to

“cut you away. No, you need to be open, writer. Oh, I need to look at this. I have to be open.”

But I'm trying to be, I just want, I think, I should just be very clear, I'm an atheist and I'm, you know, die hard, skimmed it. You know, believe me, I believe that you, I'm doubt that you had an experience. I had a series of experiences. Okay, but I, you know, I'm looking, I'm trying to find some evidence that I don't know what I can really do with this. It's not

like, I tried to get our attention back to the first couple boxes. I'm thinking more like,

do you have any journals or letters that you know, I should use this book right here? Okay, yeah, so the books and what is this? Is this what? I was flipping through the copy of it. Is this Anna's handwriting? Who gave her this book? I don't know, because I, I have a book from Willow and I swear it's, it's the exact same handwriting. There was a note in the margin of one page, lost cause, Mr. Wrong. I remember the book and evidence of the sheriff's apartment, too. The way of the

peaceful warrior did it have notes in it? What book from Willow? It's, I have a bag of my hotel

or if I could, can I keep this? That was Anna's. Okay, right. Um, um, because Willow, you know,

it was giving her books, like who am I going to give it to? Oh, right, her friends, teachers. Lainey said it so casually, but I suddenly had a very strong sinking feeling, a teacher. Yeah, because Willow gave me a book and it was from the guy that she was seen in, in 98, the guy that she, she called Mr. Wrong. Mr. Wrong. Yeah, he, I don't know, I don't know who he was, but he was the, he was the father. Who's father? Um, you know, Baby Willow's, baby.

Lainey, what, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey, Lainey. In the middle of the night,

“Saskia, a woke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life?”

Forever. I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing and immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. Your danger is person who prays on a vulnerable and trusting people. You're trying to make a love and good. Losing to betrayal season 5 on the iHeart

radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Talking to your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard. Getting them to listen to hot gossip is easy. So here's some drama you could share with your kids. Dude, did you hear about Cassian Jake? No, but did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible lung damage and nicotine effects brain development? No. You don't need

“to gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping. So if you want to get tips on”

when and how to talk to your kids, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the ad council. I heard in TikTok have come together to create something new. I love it. We're the world of TikTok meets your playlist. Three words that will change your life. I heard TikTok radio. The biggest hits across iHeart radio. What's trending for you on TikTok? Tell me you found that's better than this.

TikTok's most influential creators all in one place. Search for iHeart TikTok radio make it a preset and stay connected all day. Segregation in the day. Integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's

When you saw the cake cake cake? Yeah, there was a dress up in that uniform. The cake cake set out to Ray Charlie taken away from here. Charlie was an example, a poem. The head of crush him. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and Visit Murdoch Beach comes Charlie's place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now, listen to Charlie's place on the iHeart radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Lainy never knew Willow was pregnant. Never knew

she had an abortion. She was understandably upset. She asked me to leave. Oh my god. It was awful. I called my wife after I drove away. Well, I mean, that sounds like she's still grieving. Yes, I know, but I mean, how was I supposed to know that she didn't know this? There was no way I could know that. I don't think I knew the whole story. Willow? Maybe, but is it this podcast about her sister? Yes, it is. Right. I don't think you're going to be sending all your time talking about

an ex-girlfriend. She's a friend. It was just like this one moment when we're teenagers. Right.

“You're in love with and who you want to get an abortion. I think that's not what this is about.”

It's kind of becoming without that. Yeah. All right. Look, I got to get to the hotel. I'm still kind of really right now. So can I just call you later? Yeah. I went to the hotel. I wasn't sure if I should stay in Denver and try and call Lainy the next day or what? I felt horrible. Here, Lainy thought

I was coming to help her that I was somebody was finally going to take her seriously and maybe

help give her answers. Instead, I brought more doubt. More questions. Maybe even made her feel betrayed by her other daughter. Hold on, you think Mr. Wrong, the guy who got Willow pregnant and Anna's killer are the same person. I called Chris and Monica to go over things exactly because of a note in a book. No, it's more than that. It's more it all fits. Just stay with me here, okay? Anna has a stalker. She complains to her mom. It then at some point Anna stops complaining about

him and she actually starts dating him and she makes the tape for him. But she doesn't say his name

“on the tape because it's a secret relationship. She can't tell anyone her mom, her sister,”

Nick, anyone. She doesn't want anybody to know who this guy is. There's something wrong or inappropriate. Maybe illegal about their affair and they have a plan. Operation Ben Go. And from the tape, we know he's scared of what society thinks of him. He's told her age doesn't matter. There's also this moment. Van Gogh suffered from severe emotional and psychological problems and died in France the age of 37. 37. That makes me think that he was 37 or I don't like about to turn 37 and maybe he's married.

Maybe he would lose his job. Maybe he's a teacher. Halloween night Anna and Mick have their fight. The mean girls are mean and Anna makes a decision. It's time for Operation Ben Go. But she's still pages, Mick? Yeah. I don't know about that. Maybe she's torn. Should she get back together with Mick or run away with this other guy? Maybe she's hedging her bets. Because the guy might not go through with Operation Ben Go. Either way. Yes, she pages

Mick but then she changes her mind and she meets up with this other guy. He picks her up before make it to the payphone or they meet somewhere else entirely. And maybe they start Operation Ben Go. Maybe he helps her get to the airport to fly away somewhere or they fight and she threatens to tell everyone about their affair. Which would ruin his life. Maybe he kills her to cover up the affair. He hides her body. He drives Tony down to the Celtic Lot. Makes it plausible that Anna just ran away.

Now all that is pretty much what I was thinking anyway when I was focused on Mick.

But here's what's new. Three years later, 1998. The guy got away with it. Anna's gone.

“The case is called Life is moved on for everyone. But he's still in town.”

He is? Yeah. He's still potentially in the Lainee's life. He could be a friend of the family. He's still teaching. And lo and behold, here comes Willow, a new young trainer girl. This is grass. I know, but it's a pattern, right? If this guy's got a thing for grooming young girls, what are the chances that he would do it for the ones? Hi, I guess. Now it's 1998 and Willow.

Why not? The same reasons Anna didn't tell anyone. He's older. He's inappropriate. He's maybe still a teacher. Still married. Jesus, do you remember Jacob Wyman? No. The English teacher.

I never had him, but there were kids who loved this guy. He was one of those kids.

It was like one of the kids who called him by his first name.

“Not Mr. Wyman, but Jacob. Oh, you don't want to took kids camping?”

Yes, exactly. Exactly. The senior trip. Jacob's senior trip. Okay, who's that? He was a teacher at Analy. Did he ever come up? No, but hold on. I'm going to search the archives. Monica still had access to the back articles of the press Democrat. Oh, there's a lot.

I mean, these are boring mentions, assemblies football games, direct school play one year.

Oh, okay. There's an article about Harry Potter. He's quoted. It was 2001. Remember, there was a backlash to Harry Potter that the books were promoting witchcraft. We don't give kids enough credits as Jacob Wyman and English teacher at Analy High School. I'd rather kids explore things. Dark or risky things in fiction. I encourage them to read whatever they enjoy, horror, crime, any genre. Yeah, Anna had a copy of Stephen King's hit. His stance though isn't

without controversy. Wyman landed in hot water last semester when several parents noticed he had

included the novel "Damage" by Josephine Hart on his fall reading list. I can see their concerns.

“Wyman said he ended up dropping damage from his syllabus. I don't know. What is this book?”

Damage. Yes. Damage by Josephine Hart is a psychological thriller centered on a respectable British politician, Dr. Stephen Fleming, whose life spirals when he becomes obsessively and destructively involved with his son's fiance Anna. The character's name is Anna. For bitten desire, secret affair, an older man, and a younger woman. I haven't read it. I haven't read this. But it sounded familiar. I thought maybe because it was a bestseller because there was a

movie made. But actually, it was familiar for another reason. What's this other note here? Weeks ago, I had been requesting items one by one from the Evidence Catalog at the Sheriff's Department. Damage Hart spelled H-A-R-T. That might be a note that the book is damaged or damaged. I needed to see that book. That night in Denver, I could barely sleep. This felt like enough to bring to Greer and locklin. They could open up the evidence locker and see for themselves.

I compiled my clip so I could call the Sheriff's Department in the morning. But when I woke up, I got a call from my brother. Hey, what's going on? Hey, so the Sheriff's Department is here. He was calling for my parents house. What? Yeah, they have a warrant and they're searching the house. They're

“going through all the closets outside. Oh, they don't want my phone. What are they? What are they looking for?”

Guns. [Music] The Redweather is an eye-hard podcast hosted by a writer strong. Sound engineering, editing, and mixing by Bo Milkes, produced by Tess Bartholome, executive producers at iHeartRadio, Trevor Young and Matt Frederick, associate producer Bo Milkes, original score by Kyle Moore.

If you're enjoying the show, please remember to leave a review and random. Thanks for listening. In the middle of the night, Saskia woke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. Bo was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband.

Listen to betrayal season five on the iHeartRadio Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the burden of guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night Bobby Gumpride became the victim

I was a monster. Listen to burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app,

“Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.”

When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules.

Segregation in the day integration at night. It was like seven or another world.

“Was he a businessman, a criminal, a hero? Charlie was an example of power. They had the crush”

him. Charlie's place from Atlas substura and visit Murdoch Beach.

Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Talking to your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard. Getting them to listen to hot gossip is easy. So here's some drama you could share with your kid. Did you hear about Cassian Jake? No. But did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible lung damage and nicotine effects brain development? No. You don't need a gossip if you want

“to have an open conversation about vaping. So if you want to get tips on when and how to talk to your”

kids, visit talk about vaping.org. Brought to you by the American Lung Association and the ad council.