Can Soccer Save the World?

Welcome back to Pods Aid of America, I'm Tommy Vitor. The final game of the 2026 FIFA World Cup is now about a week away. And I am already genuinely sad that this is about to be over. The tournament has taken me from casual fan to full on World Cup junkie. And I don't know what I'm going to do going for to not do work at the office because we just have the games on all day.

And what makes this all the more remarkable is that before the World Cup began, there was a global sense of anxiety and concern about holding this tournament in Donald Trump's America. Fans from all around the world were worried about ice raids, visa restrictions, travel bands, and then also, you know, issues with FIFA itself, like the exorbitant price of tickets. That one was not resolved by the way.

And while there have been some unfortunate incidents, mostly the conversation has been about the excitement around the US men's team, at least at first, the unbelievable quality of

the games themselves, the incredible finishes, and the joy of watching fans from around the world

come to America, fall in love with their cities, our culture, inhale food from waffle house and serenade stadiums with songs and even Viking chants, and it is served as a reminder to a lot of us,

“I think, that we live in a great country and one that is defined by its people and not by its politics.”

So today, the dig into all things World Cup, I'm thrilled to be joined by soccer royalty. Gary Linnaker, he's a former England striker, broadcaster and co-founder of Gollhanger. He was one of the greatest soccer players of his generation. The guy I had a hat trick in the 86 World Cup, incredible. Gary played in one of the most famous soccer games in history, against Argentinian legend Diego Maradana.

And today, he's one of Britain's best-known sports broadcasters. And he's one who has used his platform to speak out about social justice issues, and has even been criticized for statements he's made, which we'll get into in the interview. Today, Gary is the host of an excellent soccer podcast called The Rest of Football, which you can catch on Netflix throughout the World Cup.

And if you're in the market for a new podcast, check up Gollhanger. They've got a bunch of great shows, the rest is history, the rest is politics, the list goes on. And another great way to support progressive independent media is to become a friend of the podcast subscriber here with Kirk and Media. You'll get ad-free episodes of Potsay of America.

You'll get other great Kirk and shows like Potsay of the World is ad-free as well. You'll get tons of bonus content, including bonus Potsay of America episodes. You get deep dives into the polling, the latest polls from Dan Fyfer. There's great newsletters, much, much more. So, becoming a paid subscriber, it's a single best way you can support our work and help us grow.

So, if you like what we're doing, please consider it. And with that, here's my conversation with Gary Linnaker. So, Gary, I'm a casual soccer fan who has become obsessed with this World Cup. So, it's really, it's a pleasure for me to talk to a soccer legend like you. And someone who played in two World Cups for England, you covered soccer for decades.

“What are your impressions of the tournament so far?”

I think it's been quite joyous at times.

There are always, with all big tournaments, especially the World Cup.

There are always pros and cons, but I think by and large, it's gone spectacularly well in many ways. On the pitch, I think the football has been really good. And some brilliant games, some cracking stories of underdogs, you know, Cape Verdi, for example. I think the real joy has probably been the way the fans have celebrated, not just their own victories,

but celebrated together and kind of shown a lovely humanity and togetherness that we've probably not seen previously and perhaps it's a little message to the world that we can get on, even if we're on from all parts of the world. I think that's been wonderful. The tournament's building up now, obviously, to the crescendo,

“the excitement, the big final. But I think it's been way better than I actually thought it would be.”

There are obviously going into it like we do in all World Cups.

We always think there are going to be things that go wrong in the have been

and things that we perhaps don't like. But overall, I think it's been, I think it's been a triumph, really. Yeah, I mean, that was sort of why I was wondering. I mean, the lead-up to the tournament, there was a lot of anxiety about Trump administration policies. The impact on the quality of play from the expansion of the tournament to more teams, ticket prices. I know that one has not been resolved because I but on snow, oh my god.

People don't love FIFA, generally, right? Johnny and Fentino and given the, you know, fucking FIFA piece of prize and stuff. But once the game started, the conversation shifted to

you know, through the seventh inning of a game. Is that like just what happens every FIFA

“World Cup, like there's anxieties and then the play starts when you move on or what do you make of it?”

Yeah, that's pretty much how it works. So you go, I've covered so many, so many World Cups and I've played in a couple of them and prior to the World Cup, everyone expressed their fears and their concerns. There's a lot of anticipation, excitement as well, the positive side. But also, I get, you know, I go, but let's not go about too far, but let's go to 2014 in Brazil. All the fans would like thousands and thousands of people on the streets demonstrate the fact

that they're spending so much money on the World Cup stadiums, et cetera, rather than the infrastructure and perhaps the health service in Brazil. Roll on four years, we're in Russia. Four years previously, they've invaded Crimea. So that was, you know, massive concern. When we go on to Qatar and there was a concerns about LGBTQ+ rights. People have been dying, making, building the stadiums. But again, going into this one, we're obviously worried about

the situation who's going to be allowed into this country, which we never had before. We did have

concerns, obviously, when the referee, the Somali and referee, wasn't allowed in. But, you know, everyone was worried about ice taking fans off the streets, but that's thankfully not really transpired. So, yeah, it was ever thus, really. And, you know, join the World Cup. There are always things that you don't like and there's been things like, you said the ticket price, nothing's outrageous. I mean, fee-free's supposed to be an on-for-profit

organisation. They've got billions of pounds of dollars or euros in Swiss banks. And, obviously, they always say it goes back into the game and a lot of it cost does. But, I don't think it's right

when you've got something as special as a World Cup, but profit becomes the most important thing,

rather than the experience of football fans. I don't think it's right that fans should have to take out a mortgage or sell their car to get a ticket to go and watch a football match. So, I don't like that. I don't like the interference we've had in this World Cup in terms of what happened with Balaghan, the American forward that was, you got a red card, which was, I thought, a really poor decision. But, they didn't reverse the decision, they just postponed this, is the fact that

he's suspension. So, which felt wrong and now we've got an English player in exactly the same position, he's got two game ban. So, you just think how can this possibly happen. So, there are always things

“in the tournament. But, I think the positives follow out way the negatives. Overall. Yeah,”

fee-free's, well, I want to ask you about fee-free a bit. I'm sure there are none profit. I would love to see what the line item is for Johnny and Fintino's private jet this month because he's at a lot of games that are far away and boy, they cut to him a bunch during the broadcast. I've noticed before we get to that though. So, you play it on some of the biggest professional clubs in England, also in Spain. You played for England in 80 international games. How does the feeling of stepping

onto the field at the World Cup compare to those other big games in moments? Nothing like it. We're representing you country to World Cup. I think it's, I think it's the most special thing you can ever do. I would compare it probably to an athlete in the Olympic games. That's their moment every four years. But, this is sort of, it's a little bit different to just a medal table compare, you know, U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or U.S. or

many different sports involved. But, football is, it's kind of a global sport. Even you guys have joined in a little bit. We try and have interest, I've noticed. So, which is, which is great. So, it's a chance, really. I don't think there's anything like it where you can show you patriotic ness, supporting your country. But, at the same time, we can all get on and enjoy it. So, it is unique. And when you walk out, you know, represent your country and your stand there and

they play in the national anthem. And especially if things go well, I mean, it's hard to describe.

It's just like, it's just like this is huge explosion of joy and pride. It's amazing.

You had a hat trick against Poland in the 1986 World Cup. There were gone through some

“shit at the time. You know, they had one party rule, they had Chernobyl. Did you feel bad about that?”

And all? Do you feel bad about beating them that bad? If I'm really honest, not particularly, I mean, obviously, there are some terrible things in all countries, so for a different time.

pitch, you just want to play and you want to score and you want to win. You're a tougher on that country than think communism even. I mean, that was the tough game. That transition from player to broadcast or to podcaster. Do you ever feel bad about taking podcasting jobs away from

“unethlected slubs that used to have them? I don't think I've done that. I think we've added lots of”

podcasts. I've got a company called Gohania. You've got some some unethlected slubs on the payroll. You feel like we've definitely got some of those. Okay. See some downloads for the rest of us, all right. We've got political pulses as well. Yeah. Yeah. No, you do. You have some great ones. So you mentioned this earlier that the story about Trump calling the FIFA president to lift the suspension against one of America's best players for the ballagans. We could play against Belgium.

So the US, we got worked in that game. We lost badly. So the suspension of ballagans red card didn't matter much in terms of the outcome of that specific game. But as you said, that decision is going to be, it's going to hang around FIFA's neck for a long time. So do you think ballagans deserve to red card on the play? What does the international reaction been to what FIFA did? How big a deal is this? It's a pretty big deal because I think it goes against the integrity of

our sport. You've got to have rules and they've got to be fair and they've got to be the same for everyone. You can't have one rule for one and one rule for another. Not in our sport.

And we've never had anything. I don't think quite like this before. So whilst it probably,

well, it most certainly didn't make any difference. Or it might have had some kind of negative effect on America's performance with all the hollow below around the so I don't think. So I mean Belgium is always likely to be the US. It's not your obviously primary sport in this country.

“You're on a road. I think you're on a journey where football is growing in this country.”

And you've got to league now that's, you've got one or two of the best players in the world. Messi's here. So I think it is growing. But I've always wondered why in terms of FIFA, that they're so obsessed with trying to get America to be super interested in our sport. Because if ever you are, if you ever get all your real athletes playing it, okay, you might be bloody good and that would be really irritating. Yeah, I mean, I look, I knew we were

trouble in that game. Well, we were in trouble already, but when Belgium subbed in a striker who had been named League MVP in the Serie A late in the game, the Sky, the Kaku and then we subbed in the former coaches son who played for an MLS club in Canada that kind of told you everything about the quality of the players who were out of course. Pot's of America's brought you by Zbiotics. I love Zbiotics. It's awesome. Love it. Take it before a night with drinks. It's called Priyaggaha.

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code cricket to check out. That's 50% off your first order at Sundays for dogs.com/cricket, Sundays for dogs.com/cricket, or use the code cricket to check out. Let me ask you about that, U.S. team though. So I got to see the U.S. team play against Panama. It was one of the most fun experiences period. I've ever been to sports, whatever concerts, anything. Everyone left that stadium full of hope and excitement and saying the same thing. Like

this is our breakout year. And throughout the group stage, we look pretty good. We were operating them, felt like we're operating on a different level. And then Belgium shows up and they kick the shit out of us. And it's an unbiased outsider, like give it to a straight Gary, where we actually

“any better this year or the U.S. team and what do you think happening against Belgium? Well, I think”

I remember being interviewed early on after the before the tournament and you were always asked

obviously how the host nation will go. Well, one of the host nations, America, which and I always said, if they got through the last 16, I think that would be a really good effort. I couldn't really seriously see them getting past anyone that was any good. I could properly, big European team, one of the North African sites. But I thought the fact that they did so one in the group stage was a real plus for the states and the tournament as a whole because you want the host nations doing

reasonably well. So if I'm really honest, rather than being diplomatic, I would say, that's as far as I ever saw them going. You know, it's funny. After that first game, you talked about the Panama game when they had that incredible first half and it was really good to see. And I know Mauricio really well opportunities and he's a delightful man and I'm really pleased for him for that. And it was a terrific performance. All of my American friends, he would come in at me and say,

texting me and saying, "You were wrong about us, we're going to go all the way," and I was stunned.

“But honestly, I know these world cups and it's always the hope that goes you.”

Yeah. As soon as you start believing a little bit, it all goes wrong. Oh, yeah. As an Englishman, I'm very experienced in there. Many times. But overall, I thought they did pretty well. I think the the Palavra surrounding Balagans thing did. I don't think it helped them. I think if I think Mauricio missed the trick there, I think he should have just said no, we're not doing that. It's not right. I think he would have been a very difficult

thing to do and if they'd have lost in the same way having done that, he would have been probably hung out to dry. So it's easy for me to say that. But I think it probably had some kind of effect. But overall, you've got, you've got half a good team, but there's not much depth yet. Right. Hopefully the sport will grow, but we'll see. Yeah, Pogitino had sat Balagans. I think he might have been the first guy thrown into ice

detention while in a stadium by Trump. So, you know, challenging situation to be in. What do you make of the criticism of America's star player, Christian Policic? He did not have a great World Cup. He'd be sobbed himself off with an injury. I've seen some former U.S. men's national team players specifically criticizing him, which fills him. I'm sure that's painful for him.

“But what do you make of this? I think it's a little unfair because I think his”

abilities were taken a little bit out proportion. I mean, Policist is just a very good player. Very, very good footballer. He's had a good career. He's played in England. He's played in Italy. He's a good footballer. But, you know, when you, I've seen, he's on all the billboards here. I've seen, you know, we're doing the stars show it from here in front of Times Square. And, and he's everywhere. And you think, well, that's, it's almost like he's Messi or Ronaldo.

Right. And, and with all due respect, he's a very good footballer, but he's not a great player. He's not, you know, he's not one of the best in the world by a long stretch. But I think when you're the, you've got carrying the hearts of the nation and the hopes of the nation, that pressure was probably so much. So, I feel for him, actually, because whilst it's probably exciting to be treated

as the big superstar of a, you know, of a world cup. In reality, that was never realistically going to happen.

So, I, I can, I can sympathize with him to a degree. It just, it doesn't deserve all the criticism. Football is very, very hard. It's difficult. You, you know, you play in the best players in the world.

And these, we have these things called defenders. And they, they're out there to stop you. Well, I'll hook up, but I croak, they'll try it this one way. Every world cup, we kind of talk about, is this the US's year? Are we going to take soccer to the next level? And it's, to the point where it's kind of become a running joke. But like, what would that entail? Is that more developing the professional

level? Are we talking about, like, getting more kids involved all the above? All of the above, really. You've got, you've got a long way to go. What you need, you've got a league, now, which is, you know, you've had a league before. Obviously, we didn't quite work. Right.

“And they've started again. Now, you've got a league. You need to work out a plan for, for”

a useful, both. Obviously, you've set great examples in the women's game. You're probably

the best in the world. Yeah, that's amazing. I would say. They're amazing. But you need, I think,

that needs an overall plan. And where you've got to really, I think, concentrate on the young, the use players, the kids, get them taught properly. And I know, I spend a lot of time in America over the years, and I've been to, I've seen a lot of football camps. But you need some kind of proper organisation, probably led by the various MLS clubs around the country where they can recruit the best talent and get them properly trained and coached. Obviously, you've got a very

different system to us on Europe. In all football, really, of how you deal with players that go at a young, say you live in our country, for example, and the same applies across Europe. If you've got any hope of being a soccer player, you've got to join a club when you're 16, you're education.

“They will go, they'll give you education on the side, but you have to start at 16. Obviously,”

in America, with your sports, they go to college or they go to university and they get draft picks. Right. And by, you know, if you do that in football, it's too late. It's too late. By the time you're 20, there will be ex-zoism examples that will prove that wrong, but not that many. So, I think the whole, I think you really need to have a good think and a proper planning in terms of not just wait for a World Cup and then hope it goes well, but build a long-term future. Look,

10, 20, 30 years ahead, because it is realistically going to take that long, feel to challenge. So, sorry. 20, 30. 20, 20, 30 is our year is where you're telling me. So, let me talk about, I speak with FIFA. FIFA famously corrupt organization in 2015, you know, we watched a bunch of FIFA officials get dragged out of a hotel in Zurich and they're

under where they were indicted for taking bribes, just like $150 million in bribes, all these

sports marketing executives, too. DOJ is accused FIFA of accepting bribes from reps from, you know, Russia and Qatar to get those hosting rights in those countries, set bladder the former president of FIFA. He's currently banned from soccer-related activities. Johnny and Fintino, the new guy, doesn't seem like much of an improvement to me. I don't know. I'm, you know, a casual watching this stuff. Given how much money stand to be made from international soccer, do you have hope

of reforming the organization and what would that even look like? I'll be hoping for that for a long time. Yeah. I find it quite, quite depressing. Particularly the cases you talked about, I was in the room when Qatar and Russia were given the world. I didn't have a particular problem with Russia.

It's a big football nation that never hosted it. And I don't, I don't really have a problem with

it been in the Middle Eastern, Qatar either, but what made it feel dirty was the, it was so obvious that the, the bits were corrupt. And it was literally proved to be the case that, you know,

“a lot of them took backhanders for their votes. So I remember thinking this is just truly awful for”

our game. And then obviously, it changed in Fintino came in. I met him. He's a nice guy. I've spent time with him. And I was hopeful. I was really hopeful that this, this would be a change. I don't, you know, I don't think for one minute now they're putting bongs to people. You know, Pakistan's full of cash to get votes for the world cup or individuals or who's going to host it. But I don't like the fact that they're making the that much money. And I don't see why they need to do that because they,

you know, yes, it goes back into the game. But does it? Does it? We don't really know. It's all a little bit secretive and in the Swiss banks. So it, it concerns me. But the sport itself is, is, is good. It's, but I, I think it's the same in all things, isn't it? I say, if you look

fans come together and we're actually we just want to get on. I think 90% of the world just want

to have a life that want to be able to afford to have, you know, feet, they want to have a nice home

“and just get on with it. And I think actually we really like each other all the time. But it's the”

people at the top, the leaders, the leaders of whether it's government or FIFA, they just don't seem to get that. It's all, I don't know, whether it's greed or it's ego or whatever it is, but I find it very depressing. Yeah, mutual. Pots of America is brought to you by Helix. I have the Helix, Don Lux and I love it. It's very soft and comfortable. He looks as over 20 mattress models. So you can find the perfect model for you.

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sleep dot com slash cricket for 20% off site wide. That's Helix sleep dot com slash cricket for 20% off site wide. Helix sleep dot com slash cricket. The what a day podcast you know and love is shaking things up. You already know the five days a week. I Jane Coston bring you the need to know news and expert analysis on the big stories shaping today and tomorrow. Stories like how social media works our perception of the world and the strange reality of who is signing up to work for ice.

All in less time that it takes to roast a chicken. And now what are the episodes we'll be hitting your YouTube and podcast feeds in the afternoons? You'll get the breaking news even faster. Check out one today. Now dropping in the PM on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast. One challenge we've had here in the U.S. is sports gambling. It's really exploded in the U.S. in 2018. There was a Supreme Court ruling that jacely opened up sports gambling and all sorts of

states. A lot of sports leave the professional leagues have embraced gambling and the money it brings in. But now like no surprise we're seeing indictments and players getting charged with like illegal betting schemes and point shaving and yada yada yada. Do you worry about the impact of sports betting on the integrity of professional soccer? It seems a lot harder to fix a soccer game that it is to do like an over under on like free throws made. It's difficult. I'm not going to

“be naive here and say it doesn't go on because I think there are some things and with things have”

been proven and you can bet on absolutely almost anything now and we've had betting in our country for a long time but you can bet on the nominee corners and whether a player is going to get yada card and that opens it up to you know possible dodgy go-ins on. So that concerns the overall the top level players earn so much money that I don't think they will obviously be the odd exception. I don't think players will be bought but it is a worry for me. People can have a bet I don't

know probably if somebody wants to bet on something but what I don't like is the attitude of the betting companies and the way they entice I don't know whether it's the same in America but you know in England they'll entice them in with a very attractive looking bet you know like Belgium to beat USA 20 20 to one I don't know how you do the odds in this country but and then they'll get them in but to do that bet which is going to win you've you've got to get an account

and so then you eat their in and once they're in I mean it ruins the last I think killing on that pay speak out against the gambling culture in around football not absolutely totally

agree with them I don't have you know on the rest is football that I do always refuse gambling

adverse for example I won't get involved in that so yeah I think it is a concern and it's something that we really need to keep an eye. Yeah absolutely especially worried about how seamless and easy it's become to just lay bet after bet after bet from your phone on your couch like there's no friction there's no book either so casino there's nothing you're just going like this. It's it's it's terrifying because it's it's it's solid it to you know I mean very fine when you wait I talk to people

that what with people in various addictions whether it's you know alcohol drugs six they say the heart is want to kick is the gambling addiction. As a broadcaster after your career I mean you've been

know that the BBC your former employer didn't always love you talking about issues that were not

soccer in the US athletes are often scolded for having political opinions or talking about social issues of Fox News host famously told LeBron James to shut up in dribble which was a very nice

“way to talk to someone. How did you think about when and how to speak out and about what issues?”

I think it came with social media because suddenly you get a platform where it's before social media unless you're asked in the occasional interview which I was occasionally about certain things outside of football you don't really get the opportunity to share your views. I've always felt strongly and tried to you know stand up for humanitarian rights etc so I think it's

I understand why most sports people don't get involved because you do get a lot of shit when

you do it. I got that as well but it's generally shit from people with some kind of vested interest in the opposite view to that you've got and it's generally from the people that can go on and on and on about free speech they've you know where it's free speech but as soon as you do it as a sports person or no you stick to you stick to talking about football. I don't want to hear your political opinions but yeah I suppose I got I started voicing my concerns about

various things on social media and it went from there really but I just sometimes if I see something

“where I think there's a dreadful wrong going on I just feel the need to to speak up about it and”

I understand why some people don't because it can make your life very difficult but for me I the only person you can control really is yourself. You know if you go home at the end of the day and look yourself in the mirror and you think okay I did the right thing today it probably doesn't make any difference to anybody but you've got to live with yourself. Yeah well I think it makes a difference listen I think it's we live in a world where people are very cynical and when they see

someone they know and they trust because they watch you on TV for 20 years talking about the war and cause for example I think that matters and it makes people think about stuff they might otherwise not have thought about and not have heard about but also you know back to our conversation about like the friction free gambling and the ease of social media I know it makes it like almost too easy to speak out on things sometimes like I know you had an incident where you shared a video

that included some offensive imagery you deleted it you unreservedly apologize you said it was a

mistake you didn't see you know the image in there you never would have shared but like did that

“make you feel like chasing and want to retreat from conversations or how how did you do with that?”

I mean I've had a few incidents over my career with BBC because you know they have this opniac posh reality rules that actually didn't apply to people outside of using current affairs but then they moved they moved the gold posts and made it through for everyone but I'd also go into the habit thing so I'd had a couple of fallouts with them prior and I always felt I was in the right on on those but the the last one that that kind of made my decision to leave the BBC

a little bit earlier um was that genuine concern because that was you know absolutely an honest era I you know I was posting something and there was a little tiny rat emoji on the post which I genuinely didn't see I mean I I am stupid but I'm not that stupid enough um so I've posted that deliberately um and you know I was made aware that it sits apparently some kind of anti-smetic trove although you know why rodents would ever be compared with the with human beings I don't know

but obviously soon as I was aware about took its straight down and I I apologize but I felt bad about that because that was my fault I should have been more vigilant and I should have seen it and but I didn't but as soon as I did I took it down so that wasn't easy that was a tough few days because I I wasn't I wasn't pleased with myself on that one but um but it was one of those things and sometimes things happen for reason I think I'd been at the BBC for 30 years and it's like a

long marriage in the end you gently fall out you go your separate way to move on there sometimes um one well that's question about like social issues in soccer I mean there there's just a shocking amount of racism in international soccer I mean earlier this week a Senator in Paraguay tweeted like some file stuff about Kielian and Bapay who for those who don't know is this unbelievably good guy he's the best player on the French team he's one of the best in the world like

I don't it's hard not to like him but she's like been this ongoing fight with him now a couple years ago England lost in the finals of the European championship game and then three black players

is like run all these kind of anti-racism campaigns but you see critics say like it's really just marketing it's not substance do you think there's more that FIFA international football should do to kind of punish and prevent this behavior I think I think they genuinely do try to be honest and they will be supportive I can speak for the Premier League they I think they do a lot of good in

“in this area and it's not just performative stuff they do some really important things I think”

unfortunately and as we see a lot in the world nowadays there will always be isolated attacks on

people you talk about the Paraguay and Senator believe that that cast abuse on Kielian of Bapay and it was outrageously racist I wasn't even trying to hide it and then he responded and then she responded again claiming to be the victim and it was quite absurd and you talk about the three penalty take us for it and you know that's a load of people on social media as we all know but I don't think they will view shared by the vast majority but there is an issue not just in sport but in every

walk of life in terms of racism and again I'll go to the sometimes the people at the top the people in our our governments do they do they do they do enough you know is it a football

issue or is it a societal issue I think it's the latter and it's you know you just need more from

your governments and you need them to set a good example not a bad example yeah well you're not getting a lot of help from the United States on that right I have a good idea indeed not that not said in our best over in the US Pots and America is brought to you by smallest smallals makes fresh human grade food for cats it's made from the same stuff you where I would eat but formulated specifically to help cats thrive

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and the strange reality of who is signing up to work for ice all unless time that it takes to roast a chicken and now what-a-day episodes will be hitting your YouTube and podcast feeds in the afternoons you'll get the breaking news even faster check out what-a-day now dropping in the pm on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts all right let's do some fun stuff to end this so yeah back to the world cup france looks unstoppable

Spain has unbelievable talent i got to see them in person against Austria here in LA Argentina's messy Norway has Holland England is stacked we're recording this Friday before the Spain Belgium game but at the moment who do you think is best positioned to win this thing when is this going when are we when are we sunday so we're going to look a fool there on us both of us yeah I predict Morocco is going to win it all so I'll start it yeah good we do

know that result which we've already had that one so I I can't see Belgium living with Spain I think Spain wouldn't that relatively comfortably then I go England Norway it sounds like England should win easily but Norway we're going to be tough Holland man he's like an awesome there is he's the most Viking looking guy I've ever seen in my life it's it's good and he's a great guy I know I'm really well I've interviewed him a few times and he's got a lovely sense of humor boy

can he play can he finish I mean he just scores goals so he's going if we if England can stop

“him they'll have a good chance I think England have to be slight face I'm going to go with England”

I can't not go with England myself but you know I just wanted to happen in my I I was too

so many times I just want I just want us to win it before I die just once just once please

“so but yeah so I'll go England and then I think Argentina should be sweet I think Switzerland”

don't really well to get to the court finds but I think I think that time is probably up and the little fellas just too good messies just too good everyone in Boston where I'm from fell in love with the Scottish fans you know they were singing a Fenway park they were out they were drinking the bars you know out of beer were they that lovable when you were playing against them the tartan army well they fuck there was a redness yeah then they don't like his

very much I think they've probably got good reason but they were tough to play against but it's the weird thing is as English we actually really enjoyed what Scotland were doing the fans stuff and we we genuinely wanted we genuinely want them to do well the opposite is true for that I know they desperately want us to lose every single time we play so but their fans were

“made their fans I think they won the World Cup of the fan World Cup yeah I think but yeah you”

know but then you got the Japanese and the Mexicans were incredible England I mean all the English

fans were slightly apprehensive about going to Mexico City with Mexico's fans and they all were a little bit nervous but every single one of them was come away saying how amazing it was how wonderful the Mexican fans were how they treated English fans how they all hoped together on the final whistle even despite that extraordinary game where and Mexico played so well with great heart and it was and that for me is the most beautiful thing about this competition it really was there was

amazing image I think it was a bunch of fans from Colombia I think when they played DR Congo and there was one guy from the Congo in this giant sea of yellow jerseys holding up his phone singing his national anthem by himself and everyone respectfully kept quiet and they jumped in hugged him after and it was just you know there were some of those things I mean they could teach us a little less of them yeah comfortable saves the world hey hey I think you're working on it with their

cool hanger you you played your whole career without getting a single yellow or a red card

and how is that possible I never tackled anyone stay the one with that no face no yeah

it when I played it was it they didn't dish out yellow cards like they'd quite as theatrically and it's quite as frequently as they do now so there wasn't a degree of that but having said that I don't I don't not sure there's anyone else done it but it was madre I don't know I haven't got temper I haven't I don't really have a temper so I was never going to you know lambaster referee I could win you a little bit but I just I didn't call them any terrible names

and I I wasn't overly physical as a player and I got kicked a lot but the thing is you know

“can that make what that can make you angry sometimes but the truth is the only time it really”

makes you angry is when it hurts a lot and you lean on a floor for a minute and by the time you for time you've been treated you're okay again you tend to just like gone down so yeah variety of reasons but it is it's a bit mad I didn't even think about until near the end of my career and people

started saying he's never been booked he's never had a yellow card and and then I started to think

you know it was in my mind a little bit on occasions and I just thought maybe my last ever game I remember playing my last ever match I was thinking maybe I should just punch you right I was thinking that's who got the ways of glory just be the should of the goalie I wouldn't be the goalies those guys look like no no they're big yeah they are mad I was told to ask what the closest you ever came to get in carded I don't know if that's the story there I was in that was in Spain

full enough I was very he went to his pocket and my offense was laughing at his decision he made a ridiculous decision I just burst it's laughter and he went with pocket and I said you're gonna give me a yellow card for laughing and he put his hand back and that was it you're not the closest laughing in his face I was just laughing out loud not in his face I was just laughing not said decision he might that sounds fun I love when the rafs get pissy

you know you can tell when they have a little bit of an ego you played in the infamous or famous just famous hand of god game against Diego Maradana in the 1986 World Cup can you tell listeners who might be unfamiliar with that game just a bit about what happened in Maradana because it's like it is is it the most famous game in history I kind of feel like it is I think it is I think because of a variety of reasons four years previously the two countries were at war

with the folklens or malbiness as they call it so that had an effect and then it was built up before

so that was a big deal and they had the Argentinian side at Diego Maradana who was the greatest football that I certainly played against I played with him once as well it was the best of his time is in terms for me the best players ever have been to two Argentinians and Brazilian Pelle Maradana and now messy messy for me beats them all but Maradana was playing in this game and

it was pretty awful first half for the most famous game in in history but the second half kind of

heated up a bit the ball jumped into the air and Diego went to head it but in the and he punched it over our goalkeeper said now now I hate there and what's done to our game but I could have done with it that day. So he punched it in and there was obviously there's huge ramifications for that and then just a few minutes later he scored what I think is the greatest goal that's ever been scored in in the football match. I've seen a couple of similar on messy school one very similar

“but you have to take into account this was a quarter final of a World Cup in Mexico City in the”

Azteca with these two huge countries and Diego doing what he did was it's one time whilst on a pitch

and somebody did something on the opposite side where I felt I ought to applaud I didn't because

that would not have gone down very well at home and then after that I scored the goal that no one remembers. There you go there you go my proof yeah that's it I you guys scored my head and then in the very last seconds of the game a ball came across again from John Barnes our left wing who who made a massive difference in the game flipped it over I was coming at the form I put I knew I was going to score and from somewhere a lot of good chair there left back came up and it hit

the back of his head and went so so that was yeah which you know I'm almost over it now it's only it's only 40 years old I think they actually all these are still hurt to have lost or it's just

“cool to have been a part of like history I think it's cool to have been a part of like history that's”

true I'd still would have preferred to have won you out yes yes folks you're going YouTube and check out the really beautiful tribute you did to Maradana when he passed away yeah it's worth watching would you ever run for office no that's easy he's going to give us nope I'm interested I'm interested in politics but have no interest in being a politician what about what's his name Benemic bin face count bin face that guy he's got a bin face yeah we like his platform

I like his head for those of you know there's a guy who wears he's kind of dressed like star wars and wears a trash can on his head he runs in every special election yeah he runs everywhere he's the every kind of by election the he'll turn up but normally there's a load of other politicians as well but it does appear that in this by-lection in platinum which has been completely manufactured by

“Nigel faridge to time distract from from his merch he's going down and he's grifting”

so but it doesn't go like any of the other parties in our country are going to put up a politician to run against him so it might be that faridge runs against account bin face and if count bin face wants that will be the greatest day in political is the great stuff that's make it happen let's make it happen if oh my god if count bin face beats Nigel Farage I will laugh so hard it would be so much better than this cross in the lettuce or anything else it would be even better

it would be extraordinary final question for you so my buddy Roger Bennett encouraged me to be an Everton fan a couple years ago I have to say it hasn't been the most fun winning experience but I watch a world cup and I see that you know the England goal you place for Everton Jordan pick for playing lights out you see former Everton players like Lukaku scoring for Belgium what what what is what does Everton do and what do we need to do to get them back on track

well I played for Everton way back um yeah I did one year that was amazing my best season

scored a hell of a lot of goals best team I played for in the mid-80s they were brilliant such a strong side you know they've been through the mill a little bit and things haven't quite happened for a long time they've picked up a bit of late but yeah it's a great football club though and that's well support and I'm sure it's a saving American sports you know the the suffering makes you know the awful times make the good times better as long as you do get some good times at some point yeah

I gotta tell you as a Red Sox fan we were like the lovable losers for years and years and years and the feel serves akin to how England feels about winning a world cup and then we started winning everything and there's a bit of you that misses the hurt misses the underdog and now everyone just

successful when trophies have loads of joy or do you want everyone to hate you really it's a tough

“call I think the former last I agree yeah agree wholeheartedly last last question is playing in”

Barcelona playing in Spain the most fun thing in the world that seems so cool playing for Barcelona is

amazing I mean I was there for three years it's a it's a monstrously big football club it's a bit of a

madhouse but it's so special and especially when you play those games and there's Real Madrid let's recall them the classic host I mean it's like it's nothing you can imagine I the first one I have a played in I scored a hat trip it's all three goals in the game and we want we won three two and there were 120,000 people in the stadium and every single one of them was a Barcelona fan

there was no wife fans there were no because we I don't know whether you get that in your

American sports where you get many fans that travel to watch their team play I don't know but in in England we do every you know we're a small country it's quite easy to get around to

“your weight to their weigh grounds but this was like honestly I'd scored two goals in the first five”

minutes I had goosebumps all over me with the noise and it was so special and those games are so big but yeah my three years there were probably the high life my my career I bet you didn't I didn't pay for your own topists very often when you went out that must have been a happy fan base they were very sweet they were very sweet the boss and the way the thing is they they were so

respectful they never like they wouldn't bother you too much you know they'd see you and they'd not

but they wouldn't that's I mean I don't that's probably changed now so yeah I think the camera phone

“changed that everyone's like click click click click click um listen Gary I've taken up enough of your”

time thank you so much for doing the show everyone should check out the rest of football everything goal-hangers doing you guys make amazing shows just you know just a hit machine over there so thank you for your time check out the show in Netflix also by the way and enjoy the rest of work up thank you for the cloak and thank you for having me enjoy it truly my pleasure Pods of America is a crooked media production our show is produced by Austin Fisher

Saul Rubin McKenna Roberts and Ferris Safari with Reed-Chirlin Elijah Cone and Adrian Hill our team includes Matt DeGroat Benhefcoat Charlotte Landist David tolls Mia Kelman Ryan Young and Naomi single our staff is probably unionized with the writers guild of america east the what-a-day podcast you know and love is shaking things up you already know the five days a week I Jane Coston bring you the need to know news and expert analysis on the big stories

shaping today in tomorrow stories like how social media warps our perception of the world on the strange reality of who is signing up to work for ice all unless time that it takes to roast a chicken and now what are the episodes of hitting your youtube and podcast feeds in the afternoons you'll get the breaking news even faster check out what a day now dropping in the PM on youtube and wherever you get your podcasts