Taxing Cory Booker's Patience

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I just wrapped a conversation with Senator Corey, book that we talked for about an hour, gonna give us 30, but I pushed it longer, 'cause we were actually getting into some really interesting stuff, we talked about the war in Iran, we talked about APAC,

and support for Israel, we also spent a lot of time on his tax proposal, his big idea to raise the standard deduction to $75,000, which would provide a lot of tax relief for middle-class families, but what also mean most Americans don't pay income tax and what it means to have a democratic party

that is advocating against taxes for the middle-class, where Republicans are advocating against taxes for the wealthy, and what it says about our politics, I really liked this conversation with Corey Booker, I'm really glad he gave us the time,

and I think you'll like it too. So take a listen. Senator Corey Booker, welcome back to the Potset. It's really great to be back on. So before we started, we were just talking about this,

you recently got married, I'm getting married in a couple of months, you have an age gap, any challenges in marrying someone younger than you? - Well, younger and cooler than me, she's... - Sure, that sort of goes without saying,

I talked to you before. - Yes, much, much so. No, I think every marriage is unique, every relationship is unique, but from the second I met her,

she, I always tell, say that sort of like the Wizard of Oz,

my life was in black and white, I didn't realize it, and then suddenly it just got to be technicolor. - But any references, oh, she has a girlfriend in the room, she could be a pull her, we could pull her. - Is there any references he doesn't get to you?

“- Yeah, I think it's music, oh, I remember”

on our wedding, there was a song that, and now I'm gonna embarrass myself, 'cause you're gonna ask what the song is, but everybody rushed to the dance floor and started dancing. - It's a nice guy.

- I just didn't know the song, and it was so weird. - You're like, you're playing camp town races. (laughs) Something more, something like a really jig too. - Yes, I do get jiggy with it,

but that's different, that's a different generation too. Yeah, I think it's my corny dad jokes, but yeah, that's a universal problem in my life. My staff allowed me one dad joke a day. - Yeah, I feel like you were old when you were young.

- I have been told that I am an older soul. Like I was a boring friend, I don't drink, you know.

I was always like the designated driver,

“and yeah, so I think I was always the adult in the room.”

- Yeah, interesting, interesting. I wonder if that'll change. I wonder if I'll have like an immature face where you're sort of unmanageable, at some point. - I think the, maybe towards the very end.

- Who knows? We see this with Republican senators when they get ready to retire all of a sudden, they become constructively kind tankerists. I will tell you though, I'm psyched to hear this news,

because it really is life's greatest blessing. And the most important choice, I think you make in your life in terms of your own happiness and joy. And I think that you are gonna find a deeper and richer life

as a married man.

So we are recording this on Thursday afternoon,

“shortly after Fox reported and Trump confirmed”

that Pam Bondi is out as attorney general, speaking of relationships that didn't work out. Replacing her with deputy AG Todd Blanch in the interim, what is your reaction to the news? - I mean, this is an agency,

you know, they renamed the Department of Defense to the Department of War. They should rename this to the Department of injustice. - Got 'em. - It is, it is an agency that's doing such destructive things

to our well-being and our safety. What I mean by that is they're trashing the constitution, investigating the Fed chair, investigating senators and Congress people, they are proving mergers what they should use to give a lot more

a substantive analysis.

Now they're letting this corporate mass corporate concentration.

They've moved out FBI agents who were focused on our national security, our voting, a security and more to do immigration enforcement.

“It's just an agency that's been doing really horrific things.”

And so who's at the head of it? The question is, is are we ever going to see, Donald Trump put somebody in place to understand that that's not his personal group of lawyers to pursue his been dead as an agendas

and instead to actually pursue justice? And I don't think we'll get that ever in this person. - It creates attention and you're on the judiciary committee so this will become before your committee in that having someone as incompetent as a christian know,

in charge of that agency reveals something about the policies. And if what Trump wants is a more competent, less in your face, bombastic and

ridiculous figure as Pam Bondi,

doesn't that almost help him achieve his ends of politicizing the department? - I, I'm not sure who knows who's gonna be up for us. I just, for me, this is one of the darker and more dangerous corners of the Trump administration

that often doesn't get the kind of attention it should. I know people who have been careerists that have left that office when they start saying we're going to not investigate the kind of anti-Muslim anti-Semitic anti-attacks on my note.

No, we're gonna investigate a tax on Christianity and a tax on Christians. We're gonna investigate a bigotry against white people. The kind of things that they're doing from that department that undermine

a lot of the urgency that we have, including foreign entities trying to undermine our local elections, it's just a very, very dangerous thing. And the characteristics of who's there,

as long as they're submitting to Donald Trump's will in direction, we have a very cancerous problem that is going to affect Americans more than they realize. - Do any of your Republican colleagues share any of these concerns?

Is this confirmation process gonna be any kind of opportunity for a look at the ways in which the department has, - Look, I was pleasantly surprised to see like Tom Tell us, for example, "Go after Christy, no, I'm telling the truth."

I just don't know if that's gonna be the case for whomever he puts up, I just don't know the name yet. There has been to seem to be a little appetite for checking and balancing and providing accountability

and oversight to the Department of Justice.

“Remember, this is not just the Pambadini's realm,”

it's also cash, but tell. There are a number of people serving in agencies underneath the attorney general that are doing really, really bad things. The pardon attorney, for example, is there,

and here's a president that has been just wholesale, pardoning people who pay him or pay his friends. And then turn around as we've seen in some cases with some of the biggest fraudsters and then invest in his companies

or help him advance his crypto schemes. So this is, and they've gotten rid of all the safeguards and inspector generals in the like. So again, this is a changing around the desk chairs on a ship that is sinking hopefully,

but I do not expect any kind of real change as long as people are gonna continue to give up their patriotism for their personal loyalty to Donald Trump. - So last night, Trump addressed the country on Iran. There are a lot of varying stories of what he was going to use

the time to do. He ended up not doing very much at all to reiterated the policy which is the war is over and we're continuing to fight the war. What was your reaction to the speech? And what do you view as sort of your job

in the Senate to try to check what Trump is doing? - More than a month into the biggest military buildup. Since the war in Afghanistan,

And now he's coming to the American people.

“The first time he has actually made statements.”

Now he's made tons of statements, but he's contradicted himself multiple times about why we got in there. And he's changed the story multiple times from unconditional surrender.

All the things he wanted as an off-ramp, he continues to change them. Now he's in crisis. He's broken what Colin Powell would say, the pottery barn rule, if you break it,

you buy it, you fix it. But yet now he's saying that even the straight-of-her moves, which I was the butt foreclos, but for him doing this, we would not be in the worst global oil shock ever.

He's making pronouncements last night that he's just gonna walk away. - And I'd better get you fix it. - Yeah, exactly. - England.

- And so you add to that, the cost to American people, American lives lost, hundreds and hundreds of people, the soldiers injured, tens of billions of dollars. And then he has the flagrant,

morally bankrupt statement of saying, "Oh, we can't afford Medicare and Medicaid." This is his speech last night, that I'm spending tens of billions of dollars. But we can't afford affordable childcare in America,

which other competitive nations have realized we have a national urgency to provide the best for our children, to provide healthcare for our people. He's saying we can't afford that. The man that cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid.

And yet he comes up with our resources, our treasure to go to this war. So what I get very upset about in the Senate is number one, all of his enablers, who know this is wrong,

who would have never allowed any president

to go this far into a war without having an open hearing.

“Remember, this is a Congress that is utterly practicing”

some advanced form of yoga where they're bending over backwards to supplicate themselves and do Donald Trump's will. They do not want open hearings, they do not want to check and balance him,

ask questions, no accountability, no oversight. And those enablers, to me, and this is enablers in the Justice Department, and enablers in Congress, all the people who are enabling this man

to do what he is doing, and the harms he's doing offend me worse than even Donald Trump does. And so what should the Senate be doing? Number one, that we shouldn't be doing business as usual,

and Democrats in this Senate, and this is why I'm happy to have joined with a small group of Democratic senators, should do everything we can every lever we can to force them to focus on the outrageous of this war,

that's wildly unpopular with the American public. And so what we're doing right now is forcing our power's resolution, votes at one of the privileged votes that an individual senator can force to the Senate floor,

and we're trying to do these with regularity, not to let these guys in the Senate just continue to pretend like there's not this major military operation that is a sink for American blood and treasure right now,

and force them to have this conversation. But it has to be matched by growing outrage in the public, and I'm seeing a lot more of that, but this is a president that needs to be checked in balance since Republicans and Congress won't do it.

Leaders, and we all are the leaders we are looking for, need to start fighting back, because his standard now that he's creating in America, think about this standard now.

Any president at any time could spend $40,50 billion

and go to war with any country. And for a month, not even come before the American people tell you why. And by the way, when we finished with Iran, he has told us I want to take Cuba.

He has told us that, hey, maybe I will take Greenland as well. This is a president if he's not checked, is setting number one a new standard that is dangerous and unconstitutional against what the founder said. But even worse than that is capable and liable

of doing anything unless he's held to account. - So is there any way to view, if there is some kind of a supplemental, has been talk of a $200 billion supplemental for the war in Iran?

Is there any argument that that would be anything other than retroactive approval for the conflict? - I would see it exactly as that. I would say, see it as, and again, rewarding a president who unilaterally declared war,

which is contrary to the Constitution. I do not think, and they're going to try to pitch this as, how could you vote against America having the pick your weapon system? - They're replenishing the weapons.

- Yeah, replenishing the weapons so on. And so, for Donald Trump to say two to three weeks,

“which I think is, I do not see it ending in two or three weeks,”

but maybe they end combat operations there. It doesn't mean that the fallout of that is going to be, it's going to end, it doesn't mean that he will have

It doesn't mean he will have achieve regime change,

which he said, with a more brutal regime, it doesn't mean they're going to stop killing their own citizens. Like he said, he horrifically, that he said he was going to stop. None of his long-term goals will have been achieved. And now we're going to just say, that's fine.

Let's put more money into the military to cover for the tab you rang up.

“And this is why I think Congress is just dangerously broken right now.”

If that's the exercise we're about to do, or if they try to do that somehow through reconciliation. - Yeah, I was confused about, can they do it through reconciliation, or do they need to pay for? Like, technically will the supplemental be a 60 vote vote,

or do you think they can figure out a way to make it part of a supplement? - Again, this is a Congress and a president that will change the rules. What rule on that, they're redistricting in the middle of a term.

They're what rules are they respecting?

- Well, the part they have so far, right? Respect to the parliamentarian. They've respected that distinction between the 50 vote threshold on budget bills and 60 votes and everything else, right? I mean, so far they have.

- So far they have, so far they have. But there wasn't a rate on the capital until there was. There wasn't a president that this kind of war effort in our entire history unilaterally until he did. If there's anything that you and I should be confident of,

is that Donald Trump and his enabling Republicans are going to do things that have not been done before to further undermine our democracy. And frankly, the will and the interests of the American people. (upbeat music)

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There has been a real turn against APAC, APAC in terms of what it does to fund Democrats

“also the ways in which it runs, sort of kind of adds in an underhanded way to attack candidates”

it doesn't. Like more broadly, support for Israel has been dropping among Democrats, given Israel's conduct to the war in Gaza. What do you say to people, especially young people, who believe Israel has committed a genocide in Gaza that Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal and that if Democrats can't

say that plainly, that tells them that Democrats don't share their moral values. Well, my focus should be for everybody in that region, is ending what has been this horrific decades of conflict in that region that has taken lives in both places and pitting this group, us versus them, there's a simple reality I keep telling people over and over again.

We will never be able to achieve justice and independence without Israeli security and

they'll never be Israeli security until there's justice and independence for Palestinians. And so the politics of this should not drive us as much as the moral urgency which is to bring this conflict to an end and it's a conflict that unfortunately because of Antenia who is in the same category as Trump but worse and what's going on, not just in Gaza right now, but what's going on in the West Bank, which is why I'm leading Democrats on trying

to sanction people who are committing these atrocities in the West Bank, is we have to be clear that in that region we have a decades-long conflict and America should be playing a positive role into bringing it to an end. I've heard you give a version of this answer before you've been pressed on this and say

like you don't want to call Benjamin Netanyahu who say a war criminal.

What happens if you do?

“What goes what changes by just saying I believe Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal and”

that signals what our sort of moral parameters are for the kind of leadership in Israel we view of. This is not a political test for me, Benjamin Netanyahu is a horrible person who enabled October 7 and has failed to take accountability. Remember he was, he knew about the Qataris funding this horrific terrorist organization

Hamas. He knew about that. He allowed that funding to continue as failed in that sense. He has within his own administration people that are committing atrocities right now in the West Bank, as we've seen over these last few weeks, I'm no problem calling him out

and saying that he should be held accountable for any crimes that he's committed. My focus and has been consistently before October 7 is trying to be a force as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee to do everything that I can to bring this enduring conflict to an end. He's got an election coming up this year, Antonyahu, and I hope that people of Israel

are not only vote them out, but then jail him because he obviously has crimes right now that he's being investigated for, but there's still a problem in that region and we still need to bring it for to a conclusion and I will continue to try to be like I was there on October 7. I will continue to try to be someone who finds a way in every way possible leveraging

my position on the Foreign Relations Committee as a U.S. senator and the suffering and the needless dying and really the injustice within that region. I'm a Jewish person. I've struggled with how to talk about this and I find that for me the way I prefer to then talk about it is just to lay out that struggle in a longer form in a podcasters

or in conversation, but we live in a social media agent. People are genuinely shocked and outraged by Israel's conduct of the war and there's a lot of young people who didn't grow up with the kind of pro Israel mindset with Israel as this democracy as a beacon in a land of autocracies, they just have seen it as an aggressor. And it's led to a real kind of sentiment in which Zionism itself as a term has become

a slur and at the same time I find that there are people that want to defend Israel and accuse people of anti-Semitism simply for being so outraged by Israel's conduct of the war. It is wonder how someone you talk about a lot of these intersecting values in the book.

“Have we lost the ability to really talk about this as a society in a way that's productive?”

Because a lot of people talking past each other, but there is an Israel filled with millions of people there. There are Palestinians that deserve a right to self-determination.

It's a really thoughtful analysis and I think it's right spot on.

“And I think it's indicative of a larger problem where we see things in terms of absolute”

that don't give us any space to have conversation or some kind of constructive pathway out of the hardened tribalism that exists not just in this region, but in our politics here in America where we're just yelling at each other and not giving any space whatsoever to find that common ground.

The reality is crises like that and others around the planet right now, and I'm as on

the Foreign Relations Committee I'm dealing with other hot spots on the globe, if you cannot have dialogue, if you cannot imagine that the person who feels fundamentally different on this issue, that they still have some shared humanity where maybe, and I write about this in my book around the abject outrage in the differences between Frederick Douglas and Abraham Lincoln.

“Abraham Lincoln wasn't a vowed abolitionist, Frederick Douglas was, and here were two men”

that had very moral differences, deeply moral issues when Frederick Douglas would fight the president because the president wasn't fighting for it.

What was happening to captured African Americans?

There was a much different treatment if you were captured by the Confederates and were black versus if you were a white soldier, and the hard in differences and yet they found ways to sit down not to yell at each other, but to cobble together the kind of coalition needed to end the nightmare that they would end. So yeah, I see when it comes to Israel and the Palestinian people and their cause for justice

in that region, I hear people often more concerned with being right and labels that are being used or used the same words I'm using or you yourself or evil, as opposed to saying

“there is misery and suffering in that region and perhaps we can find ways to work to end”

it.

And that crisis, you know, my office and most senators have staffs that are better than them,

we were using the way we were trying to position ourselves as people that could have conversations with Palestinian leaders, conversations with Israeli leaders, because I said our moral urgency is to stop people dying. And we found ways that perhaps we would not have been able to to get sick, guys and children out because we could have communications with people in both sides of the conflict to get

American doctors, many of them Muslim themselves in to help people and yet we would bump into walls of people who on both sides were infuriated and had certain litmus tests that on both sides of this issue that often would direct their eye or towards me. And so again, this is a generationally long conflict in the Middle East. My biggest fears is the conflicts that are growing here at home and what I mean by that

is when I go into skiffs, classify hearing, the briefings, I see and this is open information. But I see our adversaries who have warehouses full of people who just go on to our social media and try to whip up the conflicts that we have between us, including this one. One of my friends was just showing me bot analysis of where the origins of these people who come in and try to throw matches on anything they can to get more hate and division.

Even in the Democratic Party, how can we make the Democratic Party members hate each other more? And as if we need to help, that's the point. The biggest threat to our nation, in my opinion, is not the threat matrix as I see in the different nations that are trying to undermine us.

The biggest threat to our democracy, which was shown in the time of the Civil War and the heroism of Douglas and Lincoln who found a working relationship, the biggest threat is our inability to talk to each other, to find common ground, to work through our most difficult solutions. And sometimes, especially in in-group, forget the Republicans that attack, often the in-group

sanctions are so bad, it debilitates even the Democratic Party from coming together around common views and beating the very people on the other side of the aisle who posed the greatest threats.

of the discourse about this because I think it's talked about enough, but based on what you're saying, I do think it's a natural question, which is, through your office, you said, and it's just one person, but it's part of a large group of people that have this point of view that you wouldn't say go on like Hassan Piker's stream because he's said some heinous and stupid shit in the past, but to me, like given, you know, this is what I want

to understand. To me, I would expect you'd be like chopping at the bit to say, you know what, of course I'm going to go there because I want to represent this point of view in a place that doesn't normally hear it. I want to talk about the ways in which I think some of the things he said are offensive,

the same way you might want to go confront somebody on Fox News or you've met with, you don't talk to New Gingrich and he said crazy shit in the past, too, so like, maybe part of the way out of this is for someone like you to go to those spaces, even if there have been things that are offensive to people. Yeah, so first of all, somehow we're having a much more deeper and personal conversations

tonight though, so I'm going to be very candid with Gacha.

God, but I always want to talk to you about deep things.

“No, I appreciate that, and that's why I appreciate you, frankly.”

So here's the candor, I had no idea who this person was or a few days ago. I really, I never did their name and I still haven't heard him speak even. I haven't heard anything he's done, the man sitting over there is my commster hector. It's almost as if there's a bunch of focus on one random streamer and it's not really the right way to have a big debate, yeah, that's my point.

So my commster hector said to me, oh, you're getting asked this question, would you go on the show and I'm like, who is this person and all he did, the totality of this person, he gave right there. I don't want you, he's not on a camera, so I don't feel like I'm implicating him. The totality of what he did to me was show me four or five of the most outrageous things.

And they're pretty outrageous. They're, they are. I said, okay, well, whoa, let's give whatever you saw officially coming out of my office. So here's a couple of things, and I have this experience. I don't want to say, daily, my wife experienced it last night in the airport as somebody

was wanting to take a moment as I come off this very long flight, and to scream at me,

I always tell people, give me a mother's day card, please, because I get called you

mother often, and it's from people on wings of both parts, it really be a father's day card in that sense. But calling me a mother, well, you're not the mother. Oh, you're right.

“I never thought about that analysis here, any kind of card would do, I think, I appreciate”

that. I'll kind of know their sense. I think about it. I think that my wife wants to come back here often, but suddenly she likes you. My point is the first rule of mental, actually, this is not my first rule of mental health.

I have a number of them, but I really want all your listeners to like, this is a very

good rule for mental health first and foremost, you do not have to attend every argument

you're invited to, okay, and pick and choose, because sincerely, I meet with thousands of people from town halls to round tables and the like, and I want to be very thoughtful about how I apply my energy, and so whether it was a extraordinary woman who brought me together a few weeks ago with Palestinian leaders in my state to have a direct, very candid conversation to meeting with Republicans in my state who are straight up, think I have

horns before we sit down, I choose often to try to sit down with people on the other side of the aisle or on the other side of ideological bridges to try to remind them that we have common humanity. One of my favorite experiences in the Senate, and you'll appreciate this, was with Jim in Hoff, if you remember the man who brought a snowball, the Senator who brought a snowball

to the Senate floor, Bill Bradley gave me this advice, he'd be three rules, three things I should abide by if I'm going to be a really good Senator, and one of them was,

“go towards the key, don't you tell you're in a paint?”

No, no, sadly he can't help my very average basketball abilities, but meet with everyone in your Republican colleagues, go out to dinner with them, get to know him as human beings, and when I got down there I went on this wild out-of-sea, but in Hoff I couldn't get a meeting with, so I go into his office, and to for Bible study, and there's a brand of Christianity, I'm sure he buys by that, is very different than the Christian faith,

very different than the faith I have, and so I go in his office, and immediately my implicit biases are surprised, because I do not expect to see this elder, white, right-wing conservative on his altar, is one of his main shelves, he had a picture of him in an affection and brace with a black girl, and I didn't call my elder senators back then by their first names, I just said, Mr. Chairman, sir, who that, and he tells me this story about them adopting

it, months later I'm on the Senate floor angry and pouting in the back, because there's a

big education bill going through that's being managed by a great Tennessee Republican who ran for president multiple times, Lamar Alexander, and he, there's a delicate balance of openness in the Senate, no amendments, let's just get this bill through, and I think my amendment is important because the worst educational, some of the worst educational outcomes in our country are for kids that are homeless or kids that are in foster systems, and I wanted

to do something to create what I thought was better assurances that they would get the educational services that they deserve. Long story short is, I see in half come in, as I'm sitting at

“balcony, I remember that story, and I walked down there and I say, sir, I know you have a particular”

concern for kids from disadvantaged circumstances, can I tell you about my amendment, and would you co-sponsored, I just went for the fences, and he gave me the Senate version of no, which is, I'll think about it, let me talk to my staff, and I said, okay, and I walked back to my back row where I was sitting back then, and still am, and I look up, and he's like, as GPS coordinates are off, he's walking right into the dem section, and walking right up to me, and he goes

"Cory, we're in." And I go, "What do you mean up?" You're in, and he said, "I'll co-sponsor your amendment, and then he walks off quickly." And I was sat there stunned, and then I look up, and I see Chuck Grassley on the floor, and I went over to him, and I made my case, and as soon as he saw that in-off was on, he said to me, "Not that I'll talk to my staff." He goes, "I'm on it too." One story short, as I went to a Lamar, after getting all of these people supporting it,

that you would not expect, and look at him, he laughs, and he says, "Gory, this will get on

“the bill, and it's the law of the land now." And now was the one that banned the trans athletes from swimming?”

No, it was not, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's not appropriate, Sean. No, it's, look, if there's anything as a guy who's now written two books, one called, United One Cold Stand, so together, stand United. Oh, boy. All right, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but when I was mayor of the city of Norq, and I wanted to get shit done, the way I would tell my staff is that uncommon coalitions create uncommon results. And the best, if everybody in your coalition agrees with you and everything,

then your coalition is not big enough. And we right now have this ability to want to eviscerate others if they don't use the language we want them to use, if they don't agree with us on everything. And there is no way the most complicated problems in this country and in this world will be solved. If you can't find ways of bringing people together to do the hard work of finding common ground

“and finding common cause, even if it's not everything, can we move this forward? And the last”

example I'll give is just guns in America. I'm not sure if there's been many centers who have been more affected by gun violence clearly more Kelly is one, but guy who knows lots of people have murdered in Newark, and people I cared about deeply, I feel the sense of urgency. And I wanted to solve problems not simply moralize about them and found out that only one shooting in my city and all the years I was mayor was done by somebody who bought a gun legally. And I know

a case and other automatic weapons which I've strong feelings on, but the handguns that flow into communities like mine. And then I find out through polling that most gun owners, most NRA members agree on universal background checks. But yet we can't pass that legislation. Hot state of America is brought to you by fast growing trees. Did you know fast growing trees as America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants

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Start it and test your health to fill in an oil requirement of Shopify.de/recorder. Back on by onset. Malachuting is galvanized people's attention but the majority of people who are killed by guns are killed by, first of all, they're dying by suicide. Yes. And they're being killed in sort of more like a quotidian mayhem that doesn't get as much attention or empathy. Which would also I think lead to challenging some of Democrats.

“Own prior is about the best way to address gun violence including around mental health and”

a few other issues that aren't specifically related to guns. Do you think that we've attended to mass shootings as a culture and more than we have to the actual common ways of dying by guns? Yeah, I think it's an absolutely appropriate. Look, I'm proud of the bill that I got a chance to write some of the section the first one and 30 years we got past one guns. That for me, the my part was the community violence intervention money and getting a lot of that into communities

like mine and New Jersey that really helped to stop the kind of violence we see in Camden and Newark and Patterson Psegg. I know what captures people attention and often it's frustrating to me. Like I just watched this documentary about black Jewish relations and when Goodman Cheney and

Schwerner died, I never knew this before. I saw the documentary how ferociously noble the white

wives were of the Jewish men that died with with Cheney that they were saying when they were pledging for their bodies and they were doing this massive search. They found black body after black body after black body that had been murdered and thrown into that river, but it never got national intention. And remember one interview with this woman was, sorry, that you would not be paying attention to this yet another black person being murdered unless there were white people being murdered

“as well. And so I will still remember in my life, I think the the most like broken one of the most”

broken I've ever felt in my life was after a murder in my neighborhood. I tried in vain to stop this kid from bleeding to death. And I was so shaken by it. I still remember how I got home. But as I'm wiping this kid's I just lost my first mayoral race. It seemed like forever to I would get a chance again. I felt like I failed so many people who believe that I could bring

an end to this level of violence. And I had never felt this level of anger before as I sat there

and tried to wipe this kid's blood off my hands and my anger was at our own nation for this the obscenity of indifference towards the constant death of people in my that didn't even make the newspapers anymore. And so look I I feel this frustration now globally and locally like getting people to even mention Sudan on a podcast is seems almost impossible to talk about American weapons there being used in this in this in this humanitarian crisis. I feel that

at home still that we still live in a nation we joke now more than ever about marijuana, but there's still thousands of marijuana possession arrests in the America disproportionately black and brown people. I feel this discord that are that are political politics and the issues we debate and don't don't truly keep centered the people who are really struggling while we debate in the unfinished business of America and I feel like we're losing we are actually losing

if you were going to be born poor on the planet earth. Even poor in black like my father in a segregated town this was the best country because it had the best social mobility in that

“generation. Pelgrance covered the majority of the deal worked and it was the deal still remember”

Democrats kept majorities through the typo kneel years from FDR through typo kneel because most of America believed in the deal and believed the Democrats were fighting for them. My general in by the way I'm I God blessed my father's generation they're now leaving the political stage last baby boomer president last baby boomer heads at the Senate. My generation in your generation we've seen the collapsing of the deal. We've seen all that FDR sort of did now collapsing

I you know this I'm plant based and our food systems now control by like four or five companies meet packing the famous book by updance and clear the jungle which exposed all the horrors of the meet packing industry um and create a changes for a while for a few decades those are middle-class jobs now boom it's more uh corpently concentrated than it was back then and the same kind of dangers are popping up so I could keep going through you are not the bargain this is how bad the bargain

is and how much other countries are out Americaning us we're no longer the best country to be born poor. The classist England it's better to be born there if your soul goal is to make it into out of the bottom quintile. Yeah but then you're still English at the end of it. I guess my point is is our politics and the divides that define them are failing Americans and if there's anything

that's going to save not the Democratic Party screw parties for a second if there's any kind of

thing to save the promise of America it has got to be a a a renewal of that deal a redemption of that deal and a different kind of thinking not just about our problems but how we think about each other and that's the urgency of this moment we can argue ourselves to death and meanwhile this country and the people who are really getting screwed right now are going to are going to continue to hurt unless we figure out a way to get ourselves out of this and I would be wrong if I did not tell you

one of the reasons why we're stuck is because of the outsized poisonous influence of money and politics and this is why I don't understand what's happening right now in the Democratic Party. People are talking about a pack but why aren't we talking about all packs? Why aren't we talking about the fact that all of the money flowing into our politics right now is destructive and anti-democratic especially because it's so few people who are fueling the billions of dollars remember

while the money spent on Donald Trump's campaign 10 people spent 44% of it but it's not just

“their problem we are have a big money problem on our side as well 10 years ago I think it was”

about that I was one of the first people in Congress to say no corporate pack money at the end of last year I said enough I don't want to start asking I want to say no more issue area packs as well I think that the fact that I can sit down I'm on the ad committee and we have oversight of of crypto and as I'm negotiating because I think the crypto markets need structure and so I'm at the good faith negotiations at the table with Baraso and his team and for another person

here's off camera she knows this phone call it came in but while we're negotiating the details

of this bill that industry puts together I think it's 175 million dollar pack where they're

willing to drop 10 20 30 40 million against people and I think that it was so grotesque that you got a call where they somebody from that industry tried to apologize what was the exact words yeah we don't want you to think this is a threat we want you to know it is so in terms of addressing some of the deeper issues you proposed the keeping your pay action I wanted to ask you

“about it because I think it's insane and I want you to convince me why I'm wrong you know federal”

income tax on the first 75 thousand dollars of people's earnings sounds good you'll pay for by raising the corporate tax rate top marginal rate and closing the carried interest loop and other things and other things other step up basis I can go through all the things there's a few other pay for us and a few other ways and we increase child tax credit a few other things here's my my question about it if you believe the majority of Americans shouldn't be paying income tax

shouldn't be paying income tax on their first 75 thousand dollars of household earnings which

would mean the majority of Americans wouldn't pay income tax which means the majority of Americans

from their taxes that they ought to be getting like we all I want to hire I want a more progressive income tax I want a more progressive tax system I want the rich to pay more I want corporations to pay more but don't we want to live in a society where everyone says you know what no nobody likes taxes everyone would like their taxes to be lower but I benefit from the highways I benefit from having the best military in the world I benefit from having TSA I benefit from

“what our government does for us and I believe in government as a Democrat and so therefore”

we're all going to pay our share into the tax so let me let me address it in a few ways so

first of all I'm glad you kept saying income tax because you and I pay a lot of federal taxes that

are not income tax pay roll tax there's gas tax a lot of places but and those are very regressive yeah so so understand that poor people are paying a lot more then wealthy people when it comes to most federal taxes that's the first point so we're just now talking about income tax but you're stipulating that we're all paying into the common kitty even if we don't pay income tax well and and as of right now the current standard deduction is

what around thirty thousand dollars for a family but payroll taxes kick in and dollar one so this is a tax cut that you're proposing for that that doesn't hit people that are making the least it actually hits people making more between say above 70 no because then you're ignoring

“the massive increase in the CTC and the EIT okay so this cuts child poverty in half this”

cuts the overall poverty rate and I've seen different estimates by people who run the numbers from ten percent to greater so this is a massive boost to the people that live in neighborhoods like the one I live in where if you sit down with a woman single mom one young kid makes sixty thousand dollars a year she'll get almost six thousand dollars of their own income so before we talk about the analysis that you did I just wanted to let you know because I've done

this in focus groups sitting down not focus groups political voters kitchen tables round the kitchen table and just asking real Americans what this would mean for their lives and literally having people when they do the little calculator on my website start tearing up because they're treading water they're barely staying afloat and six thousand dollars to them is a difference between them making their rent payment and keeping up with all these costs so I when I talk to

“intellectuals like us I get one or so what I talk to a meridian intellectual I don't mean to”

you know I'm just saying to you when I sit down with real Americans who are really struggling right now there I've talked to families that make a hundred thousand dollars a year and are are are not keeping up with the cost of their health care and child care so I just want you know that if you if you when I were to go out in the streets right now just with our little calculator and ask people if you're going to get to know the philosophical question of shouldn't people

on their first seventy five thousand dollars pay and I will tell you this we and I'm including us

who are progressive people we have tolerated in America the top tax level grifting off of the rest because they pay an effective tax rate lower than the teacher or a firefighter or the people that are that are soldiers who are fighting right now and around so think about the absurdity of this the tax avoidance that's built into our system you you stick with that so so why have we been okay with and you and I have not been have not been and we are not as outraged as

all that I'm getting about attacks but suddenly let's people enjoy what the wealthiest have enjoyed because they built into the system and let me tell you things that we defend I will defend the mortgage interest deduction but did you know most of that tax expenditure is enjoyed by the top twenty percent so this is the I know what you'll defend the mortgage interest deduction because you'll have your from an expensive state like New Jersey where a lot of people

benefit of you defend the salt deduction which is just a way of saying that people in rich states should pay for less of their local government and have it be subsidized from people from states that have less local government all of these are ways around so I agree people are really struggling healthcare costs are insane education costs are insane gas prices are really high there's not enough opportunity like it comes up in flat housing has become a massive crisis in so many places

where the jobs are okay those are the real problem yes so you're you're looking you're basically

saying and and so we're gonna zero out your taxes which a lot of people would be a huge relief for them but it doesn't address the underlying problem which we've built in economy in which it's there that people are not making enough to get by and so I'm telling you right now because you are a good political thinker and strategist I'm telling you right now you have the Senate the House and the White House and you've got six months to redeem the democratic party

I say you need big bold ideas that people feel right away and that makes sense to people and I'm gonna try my best over the next coming months to be one of those people that starts putting out the big ideas, swinging for the fences that show we're creating a new deal in America

anymore because half the country doesn't they're working harder than their parents are making less and so this of all the ideas and again we have a few more big ideas we're rolling out

but this is basic it's simple I get it and finally working class people can keep more

their paycheck you can tell me democratic party you want to nibble around the edges but you're gonna let my family I'm one of those families making the low six figures I got two kids and you're gonna tell me I can keep ten thousand dollars more of my money well I'm telling you right now that goes so much farther than you trying to give me some alphabet soup things that the democratic party is gonna try to do my grandfather who was a Republican became a new deal

Democrat because of the big bold ideas like social security that was gonna actually end poverty or and we now know it hasn't because we haven't done the right thing by social security but end poverty for for a generation of elder people in our country the democratic party needs big bold ideas again and this one is simple that everybody can understand and if you don't go on the website put your earnings in and see how much more money you have and you still

pay federal taxes and you still you pay your payroll taxes you pay your you pay your uh uh uh Medicare taxes you pay that you pay that that's I get that I guess like I'm just sort of is it like I agree I'm sure it's popular to tell everybody that you're not gonna pay taxes

“anymore like I think that you're right I don't know how much a big of an idea is raising the”

standard again you and I should be precise with our words I'm not paying taxes anymore so I think it's a it's definitely a bold idea to raise the standard deduction to 70 thousand

but you're leaving in place say like the payroll system that comes off of people's first dollar

right that effect that every way which we should change you and I both know we should the higher higher income earners who pay a large large lower percentage of their income in fact that we should be affecting that as well if we're gonna make social security more solvent and there we shouldn't increase social security for people who live off of their social security checks like a lot of people do and live in poverty I'm still a progressive bit believes

we need to have a common sense tax system that actually benefits working people in America I'm telling you if you and I and you've seen this data looking at working people in America most of them feel like they're being screwed that the deal isn't working and that they are seeing more and more of their paycheck go out and less of the resources they need to make sure their family can eat and pay for prescription drugs and do more

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before we get back to my conversation with Senator Booker become a friend of the pod go to crooked.com/friends and sign up to become a subscriber it helps build this pro-democracy independent media company you get ad free episodes you get episodes that are just for subscribers like Pods Av America only friends and polar coaster where Dan breaks down the latest polls in a really helpful way you also can become part of the community online in the discord you can subscribe

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for you it's good you were doing it for you too so sign up crooked.com/friends now back to Senator Booker well let's get more and more people's paychecks are going towards the daily cost of

the child tax credit right yeah but a little bit I'm just a little bit I'm going out of the

“rhetoric and into the facts yeah thank you and to me okay I want to have a simple progressive”

tax code and a government that works in functions and delivers value for people yes and I don't see how creating a a five trillion dollar whole that you're going to know can I challenge you us I want to challenge you on this challenge me you are comfortable with the richest of the richest getting because the say cause of five trillion whole is not is not fair not fair too because it's not a five trillion dollar whole if you're paying it by unrigging the taxes what my understanding is

that if you even if you raise the top rates even if you close the carried interest loop I am for every progressive I am for every pay for you having this I want to do every pay for you have this but if I were saying all right I've got a few trillion dollars and I'm going to try to give to people and tax relief the income tax because of the standard deduction it's not going to the people that are paying the payroll tax there's a lot of people that make very little money that will

“not benefit very much from this bill yes no you're wrong if you're if you're expanding the”

CTC and if you're expanding the EITC I'm sorry to talk to acronyms your audience but but earned income tax rate and the child tax rate yes if you're expanding those significantly you're going to make sure that and we by the way we expanded to teenagers who work who don't get the EITC and to our elders at work and they'll get the EITC so even if you're somebody that has part-time earnings you're going to benefit now from the C from the EITC so trust me we design this

so that we are cutting poverty in America and making work pay and why is that person that working class person who makes a nurse and a cop who make $100,000 a year why do we say they're making too much money they're struggling right now I don't think they're in so much money and so this is not that they're making too much money but that we shouldn't be looking to benefit people across the income scale and so so what I'm simply saying is that it doesn't cost anything if you

are taking away all of these tax avoidance schemes of the largest corporations and you use it to fund this then it costs nothing it's just stopping the people at the top who have been benefiting from a rig system and finally letting the people in our country who are working have the benefits of this democracy because right now all the benefits are crueying to the wealthiest we're seeing

compound gains like they've never seen before when are working people in America going to get their

fair deal and so and you think the only the way to get to a fair deal is people pay payroll tax but they pay no income tax so the payroll tax is four things for social security it's for Medicare I'm like I'm saying with you they pay for social security matter but the money you pay in income taxes is for everything else that the government does and you're saying that people that make under certain amount of money just should be don't don't aren't receiving enough

benefit so what I'm asking is a guy who would defend the standard deduction we have right now maybe you want to raise to 455 maybe you want to raise to 65 why are you okay with with a large percentage of Americans who don't pay very large percent of Americans don't pay federal income taxes now either and so if you're comfortable with that why don't you comfortable with moving it up a little bit more and giving relief to those people as well I guess what my view of it is that I

actually am not uncomfortable with doing that I worry that what we're signaling is we have lost the ability to make an argument that government provides a basic good that we all share and that collectively we all pay into this income tax and it's and we hate it and it stinks but we're building an economy in which people have opportunities and and we are going to be so careful with your money because it's everyone's money that we are going to have a government that works for people so you so these

are not contrary argument and I'd add one more thing which is a system in which people are paying income tax payroll tax paying into all these different buckets in which people that make under 40 k pay a higher percentage of their taxes then people making a billion dollars is a

stupid system the answer is zero think of tax which doesn't help hit the people making paying

payroll tax on their first dollar but build a better system from from the ground up in which we can look at and say on a graduated way this is a progressive income tax system that is fair across

“some of my friend why are you the tyranny of the or I am the liberation of the and I believe in”

government I'm a former mayor when we made shit work in Newark when we went from filling pot holes from from months to literally hours when we made people who paying their parking ticket not to come to city hall and wait on long lines when we made somebody who wants to put an addition on their house so they can rent it out I love making things work we have a government I'm sorry Donald Trump has this hat an act for pointing out the right problems

but coming up with disastrous solutions do you want to talk about the need for a more efficient

hell just paying taxes in the america is is a testimony to to corporate corruption because there's a handful of corporations every time you want to make it easier they come in because these tax finance are taxes so what I'm saying to you is this is one idea of a suite of ideas that the

“democratic party I believe needs to get on board of and yes one of them is redeeming government”

this idea of the Reagan era government bad no bad government is bad that's stupid government bad but that's the idea that we pull our collective resources and and and provide real services from high speed rail to quality to world class education to childcare for everybody in our country that they can have affordable childcare these are things I passionately believe in and I'm telling you we got to think bigger that we can do this give taxpayers in the country a break

let them have what the what the rich is so the rich has had for a little while and still find ways to do the other things there there is this and again in my book this wonderful woman named Marissa Broger who's my speech writer who came to help me on this book she finds this quote one day she was I'm going to read you this and I said what it's from a chaplain in the civil war who says are we a nation or have we a government it it gave me chills because less and less

we're thinking where a nation where we do have common cause and we're looking at government

“is just hey I have no loyalty to this thing government I think government is bad and the right”

has so demonized this idea that I'm sorry public schools are one of the greatest inventions in democracy that's government having roads and bridges that actually work in our efficient and effective that can fuel commerce that's government hell keeping me safe every day from toxins and chemicals in my food that's government and we should celebrate that but it's hard to do that

unless the first part of this conversation we were having is we get back to seeing that we have

something in common as a nation that we are a people that have an obligation that are very founders as imperfect as they were said that we have to pledge to each other our lives are fortunes and her sacred honor well we know the sacred honors going going because we hate each other we know the fortunes going because we have people that want they they live this life as I can collect as much dollars as possible so my bank account is big as possible before I die and then

hell I'm not paying taxes on that I'm just going to give it to my people so why is that just don't understand isn't that all an argument for saying hey if we're going to have a country together if Democrats are going to say to people the only fair income tax rate for you is zero no that that but I'm just I'm listening to what you're saying I'm following the logic of it what I want

“I like look I think we should have a single payer health care system that's going to require”

everybody paying into taxes instead of paying insurance we to me the question is are people getting value yeah out of their taxes yes and right and you would say no and I'm saying no no I would not say no

I I will do this again and I've done it before I always tell people when I was running for

bear in Newark if you vote for me I'm going to ask for more from you than any elected leader is ever asked for you because there's no way we're going to turn around Newark was no way we're going to do impossible things unless everybody's pitching in and and and and I hate it I hate the George Bush when we for the first time ever in American history he took our country to war and said I'm giving you a tax break it was the first time we didn't collectively invest in our national effort

which we you and I would disagree that it was an unworthy war but I hate that I hate that we don't feel like we're all in on making America work the minor difference we're having right now is where the standard deduction should be right where it is or to give relief to people to a generation of folks millennials do not believe they can pay rent and so what I'm simply saying is give more people the same break for the last 40 years that we've given the wealthiest of the wealthy give them a chance

to invest in savings hey there's this 529 vehicle that's bullshit too in the sense that I believe in 529's but they're overwhelmingly used right ask this family groups around the table anybody have any money to invest and there's nobody did why can't we just say to the next generations as the baby boomers start to lead the stage you know what millennials we're going to let you keep more of your money you're still going to have obligations this is still a nation this is a country

in fact we demand more patriotism not your flagpin not your song what real patriotism is is a quiet devotion to this country and you show that by your devotion to your fellow woman and man by your neighbor that's we need to revive that sense of patriotism where we are all in and where that standard deduction line is right now the tax code written for the wealthiest yeah let some democratic party say

you know what we're going to give you a break finally we're going to create a new deal with the

that by letting you keep more of your money doesn't mean that we're not going to ask you to pay any taxes

“when you buy a beer this is not a beer but looks like one from far away we're going to we're going to”

we're going to have taxes on that hell progressive sales taxes yes my best payroll example but I'm like

when are we going to finally federally legalized marijuana and tax the shit out of it so that we can

create more evidence on our league with alcohol I'm sorry about taxing your weed man it's fine but but my point is we are a nation of abundance not that much we are much of great wealth I won't feel it why are we thinking so narrowly you're killing here what we are we have so much wealth but yet we have so many poor struggling people yes so many companies fucked up in broken yes massive structural problems yes and your answer is to say the taxes are not saying

fix the volume why are you telling me that my singular answer we must come together and share in our shared obligations our blood our fortune our treasure but if you're any income tax over zero for the majority of Americans is unfair you're mischaracterizing again and I love you it's really

“good and I and I think it's a singular idea to have it has to do it and you're not saying it's temporary”

before we fix things you're not saying it's you're saying the new tax code will have these numbers and it and I worry about what happens when we have go from having when we have two anti tax parties because I worry about living in a society in which we don't allow conversations about trade-offs we don't allow conversations about nuance and all of a sudden we've got one party that's against taxes for the rich one party that's against taxes for the middle class and then what happens right

and it's fun to be against taxes everybody so it hates tax I am a tax I again I'm in favor of myself I am not in I love what you've come to as I think about it I am not an anti tax person no my brother no okay I am not I am an anti working class people being screwed well that's a fun way to say stop in the name of love stop in the name of how can you tell me if I'm sitting here talking about all those other taxes we just talked about and the people are going to have to pay why

“can't for the the working class people I am not anti tax I am pro working people keeping more of”

their money and yeah when you raise the standard reduction there'll be some people you seem to tolerate at where it is the standard reduction is now but but not complaining about that why not give a little more relief to people who feel like the deal doesn't mean and now I'm going to tell you something exciting if we had five big ideas that we ran on as a party and and then got into office and and I love present Biden I partnered with him on the chips act in the infrastructure bill

but people in my neighborhood did not see those changes and didn't feel like it changed for them

five big ideas that we in the first three months do and everybody feels a real change in their

lives it's not just having more money in the pocket it's like suddenly seeing billionaires not have influence on our politics because we banned the packs that I've given up we say nobody can take that everybody has got to have the same standard I put forward and I'm living on myself no issue area packs no whatever we kill citizens united and that the worst decision that's maybe that's another one of our bold ideas we make everybody from a president won't be able to have

crypto coins a senator won't be able to trade stocks and the highest court in the land won't have the the lowest ethics laws like they do right now we're billionaires take them out on these fancy hunting trips and give them mobile homes oh this democratic party made a change in my life immediately in my family's life immediately so we can actually pay our rent and have quality child care

and now they're showing us that finally it's not going to be the money to interest that I'm

fighting against every single day that are corrupting our politics that are allowing corporate concentration and more but wait a minute they banned all that as well what are you guys going to do for the third act imagine if we did big ideas like that right away and then turn to the country and say we still have some problems to solve like gun violence we still have some problems to solve like health care and some of these things we may have to pay for and why and why we haven't

and why we have it now you got to pause it's in the emotional bank account of a nation that has nothing left to give out of a company's worker leverage yes build more housing yeah high speed rail yeah economy which people have opportunity even if they are paying taxes and here's the big thing I really want to tell you you pull off those first three or four things in you're not only going to win back the loyalty of people that are tired of voting for

Democrats and seeing nothing happened you're going to start seeing people on the other side of the aisle say wait a minute you're now explaining to me how workers get screwed with things like non-compete clauses and and and and labor laws and and I actually get you I'm a factory working as voter Republican the last 20 years and this guy's making sense and I'm listening to him now because my life has gotten materially better what I want for the Democratic Party

we need a wave election we need a generational renewal we need people to begin to believe again

“that they have people in office and it's not you don't get that through talk when I won”

in the city of Newark as a guy who barely lived there back in 1998 I knew people to their vote for me wasn't they we believe in you it's we're going to give you a shot to deliver for us

and and when we get that shot if we should get that shot again and have the trifactor we better

deliver and deliver big and bold like FDR did with our version in our generation of the new deal

“all right fine we'll do it okay I think you so much better than I thought it was going to be”

wow because you you didn't hold back and I I appreciate you I've heard it once I've heard it

a thousand times centerbooker the book is stand 25 hours you lose your pants I did not

we're we're circling the drain we're circling the toilet now you got to get him out of here you gotta you guys got places to be thank you I know thank honestly thank you it's really good visit thank you to Senator Cory Booker for joining us I'm glad we got to do that it was a great free-wheeling conversation I appreciate that he's willing to give us the time and I appreciate you for listening we will be back in your feeds with John Tommy and me with a new episode of Ponce

of America on Tuesday and other nettle see that the confirmation hearings for a free

“trump puts up for turny journal next if you want to listen to Ponce of America ad free and”

get access to exclusive podcast go to crick a dot com slash friends to subscribe on supercast sub-stack youtube or apple podcast also please consider leaving us a review that helps boost this episode and everything we do here at cricket. Ponce of America is a cricket media production our producer is Saul Rubin our associate producer is phary safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer re-churnland is our executive editor Adrian Hill is our head of news in politics

the show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Segland and Charlotte Landis Matt DeGroat is our head of production Naomi Sengal is our executive assistant thanks to our digital team Elijah Cone, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kalman, Carol Pelevi, David Tolz and Ryan Young. Our production staff is probably unionized with the writer's guild of America East.