Trump Works the FIFA Refs

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Welcome to PotSafe America. I'm John Levitt, I'm Tommy Vtor. John is taking some much-needed time off to tweet with his family. On today's show, Donald Trump is working the refs at the World Cup before heading to a NATO summit in Turkey. We've got two big developments in the Democratic Senate primaries in Maine, Graham Platner faces, series into disturbing allegations of sexual assault in Michigan, Mallory McMorrow drops out, making not one a two-way race.

We also look at the conservative freakout over a patriotic speech by New York Mayor's own Mandoni, and we ask the question the mainstream media is afraid to ask is Mitch McConnell alive? Currently, I've been wondering that too. It's not much Twitter, you're read. Yeah. I mean, it's an important question. Yes, it is. All right, let's get to the news, starting with the World Cup last week when the U.S. played Bosnia and Herzegovina,

star-forward, flow balligan, got a red card for stepping on a defender's ankle.

“I said Bosnia and Herzegovina, because I remember that that's how it was said in the 90s”

when Bill Clinton was bombing from the sky. I remember that from when I was a kid. Remember that NATO. But remember that NATO, but now, I'm being told that's Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's tough. Under FIFA rules, when a player gets a red card, they have to leave the game, their team has to finish the match with only 10 players, and the player who got the red card has to sit out the next game. But we found out on Sunday afternoon that FIFA was suspending

that second part of the punishment for balligan after a call from Trump to FIFA president,

Johnny Infantina. Now, in a long Twitter post on Monday, Infantina said that the decision had been made by the Associations Independent Judicial Body, but declined to give any specifics. Then again, this is the guy who awarded Trump the first ever FIFA peace prize last December. Whatever happened on the call, it seems unlikely that Trump's deep knowledge of the sport

“changed any minds. I think the referee's call was horrible.”

Nobody talks about that. They talk about the red card, like it's fine. Nobody talks about the referee's decision to red card. I didn't know what the hell a red card was when I found out. I said, you got to be kidding. This guy just hands up. Okay, your best player is not going to play next week, or in the next game. I said, wow, that's a lot of power. That's terrible. So, yes, I asked for a review

by FIFA. I had nothing to do with the decision. What I did have to do is I said,

Okay, so the red card seems pretty wrong, but so does Trump's meddling when he, what do you think? Yeah, I know I'm no ref, but the red card seems like it was bullshit. A lot of people, I

“follow, talk about this stuff all the time. I think it was it was it was the yellow card.”

Lena Messy did something very similar in a different game in this woke up, didn't get carded at all. It's also seems like they used the video review improperly. So, unlike a karmic level,

this is the right outcome, like flow ballgame deserves to play. He's a incredible player.

What makes it like head spinning is all the reporting after the red card was that there was no way to review this. Right, so we all were like, oh man, we're just for screwed here. And then apparently it turned out like the president could just call the head of FIFA as old buddy. And so I am like, I have a lot of feelings about this. I'm annoyed that the conversation about this team and their success speeds their awesome. They're so good. His now kind of like, is tainted by this bullshit.

I think it is obviously bad. Like, well, for the front of the Trump point of view, like, it's not necessarily bad for him to advocate on behalf of his country. Right? Like, you could imagine another president doing this in a way that just seemed less corrupt. Like, your starmer apparently weighed in on the start time of the England Mexico game, because he was

“worried about that. So I think, like, mostly this is just really, really bad for FIFA. It's”

part of the course for them because they're a terrible corrupt organization. 2015 and a bunch of

people were indicted on like 150 million in bribes and kickbacks related to the World Cup. The former

head of FIFA setbladder was banned from soccer. He's now on Twitter criticizing this decision. So that's when it's getting a little weird. But like, it's just impossible to separate this decision from the very long standing, very weird, very corrupt relationship between Trump and Johnny and Fantino. Trump's a corrupt person. We know that his like one speed when he wants something is brute force. So we don't know what happened to these calls, but we know that he got the outcome that

he wanted. Yeah. So a lot of the, a lot of the coverage has been around the call itself. But this was, uh, there was a shocking amount of administrative focus on the red card in a very short period of time. Andrew Giuliani, who's really Giuliani, son, was appointed to lead some kind of World Cup task force. He apparently, according to the political has been talking to Trump several times a week about the World Cup. Uh, you have commerce secretary Howard Lutton, who was at the game,

saying, sitting next to infinity. Oh, sitting next, I didn't realize it was you sitting right next to him, uh, saying that he will was offering a White House lawyers to assist the U.S. team and try to fight this. There was other threats from the U.S. team and from the administration behind the scenes run, other ways they could challenge this rule and through other kinds of, uh, uh, means that, uh, I guess the pressure mounted and then there was this call on top of it. Yeah. On the one hand,

it does feel like another story where you have, uh, the president. He's, he's focused on the biggest fireworks, the ballroom, the reflecting pool, the statues, the arches, all that. He's focused on sports, not on the actual substance of the job and the things that people wanted to pay attention to. But I have the same feeling as you, which is of all the ways in which Trump could be a bully, bullying to have an advantage removed from Belgium, to be expensive a corrupt group of European

show vests is like not that big of a sin. No, no, it's not. And like for what it's worth, the New York Post had this reporting that U.S. soccer was already preparing to fight the decision. Um, they were especially focused on the VAR system, the video review system and that it was improperly used to make this call and they were preparing to appeal to something called the court of arbitration for sports. Yes. I don't know what that is, but apparently it would have taken the decision

out of FIFA's hands, so maybe they acted to preempt that. Um, so there's a chance here that Trump is taking credit for something that was already in motion, which is something President get to do. Good or bad. Um, all that said, Belgium has a right to be pissed off. Other teams have

a right to be pissed off. They want one clear set of rules. They never get it from FIFA. Um,

imagine, though, if this was the 2018 World Cup in Russia, Putin lobs in a call to FIFA to overturn some ruling, we'd all be like ripping our hair out and screaming about injustice and corruption in all of Garkey. FIFA has made similar exceptions, including one for Cristiano Ronaldo, to make sure he didn't miss a game in the tournament. So I think just like the way it ultimately understands FIFA is it's basically a criminal organization that just cares about money. And like the way it

understands in Fentino is he just sucks up to the most powerful person he needs at all times. So I think everyone, of course, assumes that he viewed this as doing a favor for Trump, even if it hurt his reputation. Yeah. It's like, I can see, like, you could imagine Obama at a press conference, getting a question, like that was bullshit, man. Like that sucks. And then yeah. And but you, this is where having independent trust worthy organizations is important, right? Because sure

“an American leader should put pressure for the American team, but you need to trust that the”

other side of it will not let that influence the decisions. But you can't trust that here. You also can't trust that Trump is not up using his relationships and his financial entanglements

Yeah, for what it's worth, we're recording this at like three o'clock on Monday, Pacific Times, the two hours before the game. So we don't know the outcome right now. We'll find out. Yeah, I decided to watch. And I just, I am, I watch Angel City. All right. I am a season ticket holder. So I'm not, I am like getting into soccer. Have you been watching these games? You know, here's one of my problems with the way that because you have it on and I see you

getting into it. I find that with soccer, I either want to watch the whole game or I want to see highlights at the end. But I have trouble dipping in and out because for me, it's about like the the way, like you can watch a team and even if I didn't understand this, so I started watching soccer, that even if a goal isn't scored during an entire half, you're still like understanding the way the teams are going up against each other. And I feel like it's hard to get that when you're just looking

up for a computer. Yeah, I have to say this has been one of the best woke ups I've ever seen. Every game has been like down to the wire and exciting. There's been all these late goals. There's

been like late goals called back, incredible header or some of the best goals I've ever seen.

Like Cabo Verde, goal to tie it up the second time and over time against Argentina was like one of the most incredible shots ever. So just like the storylines, the game play itself, the big players

“delivering and big moments is just been incredible. And that's why it was like particularly annoying”

to all of a sudden have to talk about Trump again because it was just a reprieve from him. He like interestingly, despite the cup being in the United States, what's Canada in Mexico too, he just like hadn't made himself a part of it. He will at the end to allow give out the the trophy to the winner with in Fintino. But like he kind of stayed away from it and now it's just like him again. And some of the worst like concerns about what would happen with people

traveling to the U.S. haven't I mean we haven't seen that much of like what we the worst possible like people being stopped being unable to come see the games. You did have this moment with your Ronnie and team protests in the U.S. which I thought was in Mexico and they did it but I thought it was like particularly moving. Yeah, we were real dicks to the Iranians for no good reason. Like we would let them stay in the United States and make them like fly back and forth or Mexico

to games. There were some issues with like one of the African refs was denied entry into the country for some like vetting reason that seems like mostly bullshit. But the level of anxiety going into the world cup was way higher than the level of the problem. Yeah, in fact, it's like the opposite. It's like all these foreigners coming to America coming nervous and feeling like they

love it and like going to waffle house for the first time and making viral videos. And it's just

been like this fun like joyful melting of cultures. We have beautiful cultures combining in the U.S. Meanwhile, Trump is heading to Turkey for the annual NATO summit and Trump intervening with one of his repeatedly corrupt pals to remove what would have been an advantage for Belgium seems like a pretty good metaphor for European frustrations with American and Germany. There will be a lot of discussion of defense spending and of ending the war in Ukraine. Russia was

“striking its civilian targets in key of this week and Ukraine is actually less able to defend itself”

in part because of a shortage of interceptor missiles made worse by Trump's war in Iran. What are you watching for in this summit and what are you hoping for on this? Yeah, but you got at the top line which is like the science at the divide between the U.S. and Europe are widening or narrowing. Trump is still furious about the lack of support from Europe when it came to the war with Iran and Europeans are still rightly furious that we started a war with Iran and made harm to them in

the process. So we could see more discussion about whether the Trump administration is going to pull U.S. troops out of Europe to punish countries like Spain that opposed the war. Remember, like at some point, Pete Higgs-Eth was floating that we're going to like pull troops out of Poland and then Trump heard about it. He got mad. So it's like been all over the place. He was mad about that too. Yeah, Rubio apparently spiked it as well. In like kind of the best like, you know,

there's competing worldviews out there. There's like it's time to move on from America world view that you're in from Mark Carney and Canada, then Mark Ruta, the NATO Secretary General is more of the ass kisser like key Trump on sides guy. So the other thing Trump loves to do with these NATO summits is Browby, these countries about defense spending. He's now demanding that countries spend

5% of GDP on defense by 2035. Now, before him Obama Bush others were critical of NATO countries

for not spending enough, but they wanted to get to like 2%. 5% is 5% is absurd. That said, it's like a fake target because 3.5% of the 5% goes to military spending and then 1.5% is defined as security related investments. So that could mean like roads. Right. Yeah. Cyber security. So for the record, I want to talk about NATO. I know. And in part because so last year, this was the summit where Mark Ruta, who's the Secretary General of NATO,

“this is where he called Trump daddy. I think it was a moment for him. It was not great. And it”

came to represent like the Ruta strategy, which is you just suck up to him in public and you do your best to mitigate the damage in private. But in the years since that summit, you have Trump threatening terrorist over Greenland, you have the war in Iran. The administration has proposed and actually enacted some trip drawdowns are threatening more. And then six months ago, that's when Mark Ruta is this speech laying out, I think for the first time in a really,

I think, in a way that felt like a legitimate alternative. All right. The sucking up approach

reported story in the Wall Street Journal about the European view of America. And there was a lot in there, but the experience of Europeans coming to the US, besieging Trump to defend Ukraine, him seeming to agree, and then an hour-long conversation with Putin wipes the fucking thing. Clean. And so, right at this moment where there does seem to be a real possibility of Europe actually viewing, this is not a Trump problem, but an America problem.

Yeah, it's really, it's, it's probably, look, on the Ukraine piece, I mean, Trump is going to meet with Zelensky. We'll see what comes out of that. Zelensky's wish list is like, "I want to be able to manufacture patriot missile interceptors in my country." It feels like a win-win. The Ukrainians have

“done all this really important stuff with drone technology and using that to using drones in”

receptorones. You're not spending like $3 million on an interceptor missile to take down a $30,000

should-head drone. So there's the areas of coordination there. Like, hopefully, Trump will just do know harm when it comes to Zelensky, not pull back support until it's in support for them. Hopefully, we'll like recommit to a serious peace process and stop whatever this joke is that's being led by Steve Wickoff and Jared Kushner and the Russian oligarch of the day that's seemingly just about deal making for those guys. There's also this whole subplot of NATO about Turkey and whether

Erdogan is a reliable partner, whether the US should sell Turkey F-35, the Israelis really don't want that to happen. And then there's just like the petty shit like Kier Starmer and Trump. Don't really get along. Those starmers last NATO. Georgia Maloney and Trump, the Italian leader, Prime Minister, there was a back and forth where he claimed she wanted a picture with him and she was like, "What the fuck are you talking about?" Right. So we'll see. I mean, it's just, this could be nothing

“or it could be him just pick up a fight with a bunch of euros. There's a way which is just sick of it.”

It just seems like they're sick of it. And because the root of thing, right, is, hey guys, he's demanding

5% you can count to bridge. Just shut up and say you're doing it. Right. And it's by 2035. It's never

going to happen. He's only long gone. Just say you're going to meet the commitment, put forward some way of proving it. Right. And then, and we'll, he wants the flattery in public. He wants the grade headline. And we can slow roll it in deal with it after he's gone, but there seems to be in it. Like a shift in which they're just no longer willing to play along as much as they were before. And in that Wall Street Journal report there was that Europeans are also removing

American tech from their systems. They're urging civil servants no longer use Microsoft Teams or Office. They're spending hundreds of billions of dollars trying to boost Europe's own private space firms, AI companies, and data centers. And it seems like I was interested in this big part because it seems as though Trump's his bravado, his sort of his bullying. It is predicated on America being indispensable and it's too hard to shift away from us. Yeah. But that is only true

“if they treat it as if it is true. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I think they're kind of waking up to”

how many different ways they're relying on the US. Like the NATO piece is obvious. Like the US is well, like 70% of NATO, right? If the US pulls out of that, if we refuse to honor the article 5 commitment within NATO, NATO kind of falls apart. So that's been an anxiety for a while. I think they're also concerned about their alliance and like the big ticket weapon systems, like you're seeing quotes being like, "Is there a kill switch in the F-35 if we buy those?"

Yeah, there is. I could just turn them on. I still have this country, and I hope there is. But also, like, recently we've seen this completely incoherent approach to AI models, like the mythos model from Anthropic. One day, the administration just cuts it off to any foreign partner, or then a couple weeks later, they turned it back on. And I think easier repeating countries understand that like this tech is going to get embedded to everything they do.

Their economy, weapon systems, everything, and they have no AI industry. And I think they're worried about that, and they're trying to like scramble to catch up a little bit. And then I would imagine they're looking at us replacing NASA with like Elon Musk and kind of worried that their ability to launch stuff into space going forward runs through that guy. Right, like it's just like two more curial people. You're relying on the US for defense. You can't trust them anymore.

You're relying on Elon Musk to provide access to starlink use a capricious about that. And then on the other side of it, right? And then they see Mark Carney, right? And Canada's even more dependent on the US than the Europeans are. And he's sort of charting this other path. But it's not just that if NATO would go away and then they would be in trouble. NATO would go away and then they would have to spend not 5%, but 10%, 15%, they'd have to have a real defense, which currently we subsidize.

What's it funny about this is like basically NATO exists to deter a Russian invasion. And then

Trump sort of doesn't seem to care about Russia invading other countries. So why are we spending all this time prohibiting European countries to increase their defense spending to 5%. If he fundamentally doesn't really care about the existence of the organization. That's like the internal incoherence of this whole thing. It's just like he feels like we're getting ripped off. He likes to yell at them and that's become his stick. Right, it does seem like that's the resistance.

countries didn't think it was painful. They didn't get to 5%. And now this is a meeting about

“proving they're going to do it. And there's never a day at which they've successfully”

assuage Trump. And now we can get to the work of rebuilding the alliance. And the year since they made those commitments, that's when he threatened to put tariffs on because of Greenland. Yeah, and if you're the UK, you have this demand for Trump to increase defense spending. They're clearly is in need for them to improve modernize and beef up their military. But they're also like their economies have been bumping along kind of stagnant for a decade.

So they have all these pressing economic domestic concerns, too. And you just get pulled

between the two. And then you know, Mark Trump just decides to bully you everyone as well.

And like Mark Carnegie gave a great speech in Davos talking about this sort of post-America world. I think the challenge is like, okay, in practice, can he really cobble together this alliance of middle powers to really push back on the U.S. and become another power center, just remains to be seen. Yeah, and just every dollar is not the same dollar. It is not good for the U.S.

“And it's quite costly for Europe. You have to build redundant capabilities to the United States.”

That is instead of the U.S., I mean, it is Donald Trump does not care about our national interests. But it is better for us as a country if they are buying, if whatever, 2% of their spending involves purchasing a lot of our support versus 4% of their spending being independent. Well, that, and that's sort of the rub in a lot of this is like when Trump is demanding, they spend 5% of GDP on defense spending. Most of that money is going to get shoveled overseas

to U.S. defense contractors to rafion and stuff. And it's like a terrible economic investment for the leaders of these countries. It's not really a return on that dollar. It's not flowing through their economy. It's just going over to the U.S. because Donald Trump wants it. So we'll keep an eye on, you know, let's see if NATO is around by next episode.

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David Plattner talked about a bunch of troubling incidents and dynamics, then won the primary handle. Then on Monday, shortly before we sat down to record this, political published a story in which one of the women in that time story, Jenny Rassica, a Democrat, gave more details about her experiences with Plattner. She said that in 2021, she showed a better house,

She told political that she with held those details because she did not want to be known as a rape victim moments after the story published, the Plattner campaign posted a response video here is what Plattner said. I wanted to directly address the troubling, serious and false allegations against me. Any accusation of non-consensual behavior is categorically false. Regardless of the inaccuracy of the reporting, but mindful of the political reality won't

reflect. We are taking the time to reflect on the best path forward for the state that I love, the people, that I love, the movement I belong to, and the goal of defeating Susan Collins. So just so people know, if he withdraws by July 13th, he can be replaced on the balance. Tommy, what was your reaction to the story? The allegations of the story are really bad in troubling. They seem credible. They're backed up by documentation, and so obviously the impact

politically is not just what's in the story. It's this cumulative impact of a series of articles and allegations about him. And the feeling that he's just has not been fully transparent and honest about some of the allegations, like you mentioned. I mean, there was this meeting in Washington,

“a while ago where these questions were put to him directly in the answer. I think it sounds like”

it was just no, and now there's all this reporting. So I think my takeaway from that video was that he's going to drop out of the race. I think he has to drop out of the race. Like you said, if he drops by the 13th, the main Democratic Party will choose a replacement by July 27th, I have no idea who they're going to choose. I'm very worried now about the prospect of winning the

seat. If the party can get its act together, we ultimately could be in a stronger place politically,

then we would be with Platner and all this baggage if these stories have come out later. I think the challenge is going to be, you know, all these voters who turned out and voted for a Grand Platner despite the retapose, despite the tattoos in, you know, the story and all the other scandals, they were turning out to signal that they wanted something different in that they were angry at the establishment. And I don't know who in vain can like speak to that anger,

but also has been vetted by the party and has been through the political process, because like like as much as Jenna Mills's supporters deserve to be angry and deserve the I told you so that they're saying today, the problem was that main voters were not supporting her. They didn't want to vote for her. And so this wasn't like some online vibes issue. It was like

“what the electorate was saying in the state where it matters. So I think I don't know where they go”

from here. And she's suspended her campaign before any votes were passed, right? So there wasn't an alternative in the primary. Yeah, he asked it, he asked it and the campaign so that we have a chance of defeating Susan Collins and the story is horrible. I find it, you know, starting from when you

interviewed him about the tattoo, he has not always been transparent about it that has become

increasingly true that his denials have just not been backed up with what came next, even here, in the story which is deeply reported backed up by contemporaneous evidence and previous conversations. It can it compords with what he said, which is that he was drinking a lot and the story describes him as being drunk, potentially not remembering it the next day. And so then we have a video of him categorically denying something, which it doesn't seem he's really in a position to deny. So he

has to withdraw to give us a chance and what I took away from watching this video from reading this story is it is clear that this is somebody that is not maybe even been honest with himself about what was going on in the dark phases of his life. Yeah. But that is not for us to deal with in a Senate race that will determine the control of his life. Yeah, I look, obviously a big lesson here is that vetting is really important. And some of the vetting gets done by campaigns themselves

and then ultimately it will be done by the media if the campaigns don't figure that part out. But like we should be clear about what kind of stuff comes up in vetting. Like the reddit post

should come up in vetting. Like online accounts that should come up in vetting. I've never heard

“of a campaign like kind of calling X's to sort of sus out stories like this. Right. I mean, I think”

what happens is campaigns have conversations with the candidate. They asked them a series of questions. If the candidate is not candid back to them, then they're in a very difficult position. And like when I interviewed Plattener about his reddit posts in the tattoo, like I was not aware of any of these allegations. None of this was public yet just for the record because I would have asked. I still don't think there's evidence that he intended to get a Nazi tattoo on purpose or that

he had like Nazi leanings. In fact, I think the reddit archive like shows the opposite. But like like you just said, like I have come to believe over time and over learning more information that he just wasn't being honest about when he learned that what the tattoo was or what

And so I think like the question is like, what do you do with that information? What's the lesson here?

“I hope it's not that we don't try to run people from outside of politics because I think like”

that's a good thing. I want people who weren't just like raised in a political system to run for office. I think it's good dev new perspectives. Also, there have clearly been vetting problems within the party too. Like Eric Swallow is in Congress for a decade. There were horrifying allegations that came out about him. He was in leadership. He was like close with Pelosi. He's right. So like he was in a establishment favorite too. He had some horrible allegations in his past.

But yeah, I mean, it's horrible. It's awful. It's really sad. A lot of people believed in him, believed in this campaign. I know they're going to feel devastated by this. A lot of people would be really angry. There's going to be a lot of anxiety about our ability to win this seat. And, you know, hopefully that named Democrats can pick someone good to replace him quickly and get this right. Yeah, there's going to be a lot of, I think people

sort of doing their kind of factional kind of point squaring about it too and fine. People can have at it. There are people who felt like this was not a person that should have entrusted with a senate nomination because of the reddit post because of the tattoo that this was enough to say we should be looking in another direction that has turned out to be true. But what has

“consistently been, I think, the way in which people talk past each other in these sort of”

interparty debates is you view Grand Platinum are as unacceptable. Voters seem to find the establishment candidates even less acceptable. And there was a way to defeat Grand Platinum with a viable alternative and that wasn't presented during the race. And that doesn't mean criticism of Grand Platinum wasn't completely and totally justified. That doesn't mean there's any wrong way supporting Janet Mills, but now we have to figure out how

to find that person who can represent the party in the center race because the stakes remain

controls. Yeah, and look, I think ultimately, I just don't get the sense that Janet Mills

really wanted to run. Yeah, and she was like pushed and pushed and kind of dragged into it. And it came through, you know, and like she didn't seem like she wanted to campaign. I understand that there was also this insurgent candidacy happening. And she just, yeah, it's just the whole situation is terrible. Even after the June 4th story, she said, I haven't still technically on the ballot, but didn't react to it. The campaign. So, you know, it's a terrible situation.

“And the story is horrible. And my thoughts go to, I think about person who finally felt like”

they didn't get their story out the first time the story ran. They thought they had to come forward and tell it an even more gruesome detail. And that is terrible. And a brave thing to do. And, I still hope we win that fucking seat. Yeah. Pots of America is brought to you by Tommy John. Summer can be rough on the body. Public transport is a sauna. You're walk to work feels medically unsafe. And sometimes it feels

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Mook Morrow ended her primary campaign for U.S. Senate creating a two-way race between Abdul El Sayed and Congresswoman Hayley Stevens. MacMorrow is seen as a rising star in the party, but she failed to gain traction in the race and had been stuck in single digits in recent polling. Stevens has the backing of Chuck Schumer, the D.S.C. and A-Pak is positioning herself as the electable moderate to date though. She's running behind El Sayed a progressive and former

crooked host and a friend of ours who's generating big crowds in enthusiasm by running against the establishment supporting Medicare for all and opposing military aid to Israel. Malory was trying to position herself between Hayley Stevens and Abdul El. Why do you think that didn't

ultimately work? Yeah, just to be clear, I also am biased like a dual-to-friend. He did a

show in a network. I'm a donor to his name vein, so I just want to put that all out there.

“I think Malory started as a long shot. She was known online because of viral speeches a few”

years ago, but I think statewide she had very low. Name ID and that's a real challenge. I think you also had Abdul as the very clear Bernie Sanders endorsed progressive favorite and then you had Hayley Stevens with the Schumer support, the institutional support, and the tens of millions of dollars and outside money that comes with it. I think they 32 million has been spent on her behalf so far. And then Malory was left trying to figure out what is my middle path where I

cobble off some votes from the more progressives by being more electable and from the establishment. And it just never quite worked and then I think she made sort of what turned out to be a fatal error by attacking Abdul for campaigning with the son Piker, which made progressives think that she was not credible or viable and then I think it got Abdul more attention than he had gotten in a very long time and it just sort of started this slow attrition and support.

“And so I think it's a long-term with Hayley. Yeah, it made her seem more like the establishment”

which was sort of played into the Abdul message. So I just think she ultimately never

could really find a clear lane. Yeah, there was some also I would just say like a fair amount of like hostility towards Malory and with Maro online and it reminded me a little about of when it was burning versus Elizabeth Warren toward the end of that primary and it was like oh you know we have our person and so you're a threat to our candidate and it's sort of pretty hostile towards Mick Maro. So yeah, but now the question is I think what happens to there weren't that many

more of voters by the end but there are still a lot of undecided people and Hayley is going to be making a an electability argument against Abdul. Some of that will be around him being on the left I think some of it will be subtly or not so subtly about him. His identity. Yeah, what do you think? Yeah, I think there's there's sort of this assumption that Malory's votes are just going to go to Hayley.

“I think that's wrong. Like I've heard from people who have seen a lot of polling that”

Malory's votes are very much split. It's not an obvious boon to Hayley Stevens. We'll probably see another poll soon and love the better sense but like the old theory of politics was the progressive

lane was like 35 baby 40 percent you know that was sort of the ceiling and then the rest of the

votes would go to more established kind of moderate and normie thems. This cycle though we're seeing the total rejection of the establishment on the left and on the right we're also seeing progressive candidates all over the country in York Colorado lots of places do really really well and that would seem to benefit a dual. There are questions about Hayley's abilities as a messenger. There are foreign policy and support for Israel and APAC has been more of an animating issue than we've

seen in a very very long time and I think that speaks to an individual strength. So those are would be all arguments for why he could benefit or do well coming out of this move from Malory. But we don't know. I mean like there's a ton of money getting spent for Hayley. She's a better known quantity in the state and then as you said I think there will be a lot of talk about electability, fear of losing this seat, the strength of their opponent and you're right like

a lot of that will be code for a duals a Muslim guy. But we'll just see what message resonates with voters. I mean this this primaries in August I bet a lot of folks still aren't paying attention so there is time but it's going to be seen as like a huge proxy for a lot of the issues in the party about left-right Israel gossip. We'll talk about in a second. Yeah we've been saying for a while now that there is this realignment on Israel and it seems to be happening very quickly during this

primary. Jonathan talked on the show Friday about Kamal Harris reaching out to Zoron and AOC and the leaders of the uncommitted movement in Michigan as she prepares her potential 2028 run on Wednesday. Another potential 2028 candidate from a manual the son of Israeli independence fighter and a career moderate will give us speech in Tel Aviv, essentially threatening an end to American

This is a moral Rochak test. Like if you can't identify the systematic murder of tens of

thousands of kids as a genocide and then you want to say that you're a fighter for human rights and dignity that's just hypocrisy. So I just think that if you can't call the the most painous violation of human rights what it is it's hard for me to believe that you're going to go and fight the Trump administration or fight the pharmacy eos or fight the health insurance eos who are making my life on level. I do think he's describing like the actual dynamic of a lot of democratic

voters that this issue has become a kind of shibble with for a willingness to take on the establishment of the willing to take hard political positions. But at the same time it's his choice of words

there is interesting, right? Because a Rochak test is something in which you see what reflects

your view of its point in order and that the thing itself is a way of eliciting what your view might be. And I do think that's happening here too. It's probably why I'm interested in what

“Rahm ultimately says because I think the what I think I've do is describing the reality of how”

this debate is unfolding but that is in part because Joe Biden and Kamal Harris left such a massive hole both in terms of the policy and any kind of larger framework or message or story about what a progressive defense of support for Israel might be. Yeah I mean I think that for a lot of progressive voters in the in the U.S. especially young people it's kind of just like a threshold question

about your credibility. If you can't look at what's happening in Gaza and say that's wrong and say

we shouldn't be funding a genocide or sending more weapon systems with that with a blank check over to Israel than they don't believe you on anything else. I think the ROM speech is particularly interesting to me. I'm going to talk to them next week on positive the world because Netanyahu has an election in October at the latest. I think he's going over there in part kind of certain shit up in signal to voters in advance of that election like hey it's time to move on from Netanyahu.

This guy is bad news. He does not he's not serving interest. He's not going to help you wash into anymore. We'll see if that works. I do think like looking thinking back to the Biden

“kind of era Gaza's fights. I think there was a suggestion for a while that the campus activists”

were performative. People are protesting like they just that was their thing of the month, right? I didn't think that was true then and I don't think it's true now and I think that your views again on Gaza just become like a proxy for this much bigger threshold question about whether people believe you. Frankly things have gotten worse since then because we had the war with Iran and all the Trump is done to make things worse there and so that's where it's like

all getting swept up and so I do think this is going to continue to be a huge issue in democratic primaries in this cycle but also in 28. Yeah this is where I do think like the ways in which I think pro Israel Democrats or historically pro Israel Democrats have been I think really caught flat footed and surprised by the level of intensity and importance of this issue is now taken and you've have seen a lot of those Democrats shipped right you had Bernie and Chris Murphy putting out putting up

resolutions about cutting off military offensive military aid Israel and the number of Democrats

“being willing to support that ticking up but in the absence I think of a clear articulation of a”

view on Israel that is reflective of conceits the substance of the I think valid moral critique of US support for Israel especially of military support for Israel and it's conducted conduct of the war in Gaza but that talks about a position on settlements that talks about a position on the future of Gaza to state solution whether or not that is still something that is plausible what it looks like to actually fight for something like that what it looks like to hold Israel accountable

right like it is true what Abdul says in that video that if you can't call is what Israel has done in Gaza genocide then you are failing this moral test but there are no politicians right now saying something like I believe Israel's conduct of the war is horrific I think that they've committed ethnic cleansing there are genocidal members of that administration I will leave the definition of genocide to others but I will tell you we will make sure that the West Bank is safe for Palestinians

and we will remove settlements as part of any deal we will hold off any funding for Israel until it has withdrawn to the borders right like there is a full-throated pro-Palestinian position that acknowledges Israel's right to exist and defend itself that I think could reflect the values of Duel's talking about but right now it just doesn't exist there's no one no one really espousing that position that I'm here yeah I think what what is broken recently

abided by in Washington you know it's like there was there was seen as most politicians did not

“stray much beyond you know sort of like the 40 yard line to this debate and then when Gaza started”

like a bunch of people just sort of asking why why are we giving you know to their credit like place like Jay Street and other groups we're asking these questions earlier but like

people just sort of wondering why are we giving this country 3.3 billion a year and military support

and then a bunch of additional funding after that why are we partnering with BB Nanyahu to launch this crazy war with Iran when it doesn't seem to serve our interests why are we why does the US Congress welcome in ICC and died at war criminals like in Netanyahu and other you know Israeli political and military leaders and yet we're having this big dump fucking fight for a month about Hassan Pikers you know Twitter to the Twitch stream and why why is a democratic administration

two of them supporting a government in which their leader comes to the US and insults us and basically does politics for their public in party and you have a pack as an organization that has become completely sort of politicized and attacking Democrats who don't view exactly to their line.

Yeah I mean a pack primarily has started sort of intervening in democratic primaries attacking

the more progressive candidate about issues that I've nothing to do with Israel and that's rubbing

“people the wrong way and I think there's a broader sort of waking up to the fact that”

at this moment the two state solution is just not realistic in any way and I think a lot of times when politicians talk about well we need peace talks in two states living side by side and blah blah like it's just a way of like punting the question and having anything to say that they I'll know is complete bullshit because the West Bank is getting chopped up every single day if I'm more settlement construction and you know after October 7th not neither cited any faith

in the process nor did they necessarily support a two state solution anymore um that's all true and real I think where what the what like my only advice to like the more progressive candidates and people on the left is I do think one thing that has gotten lost from the conversation is like any sense of empathy and a lot of these answers about the trauma that Israelis felt on October 7th or that Jews in America feel fear they feel about anti-Semitism and I think we just need

that needs to be more a part of the conversation as we recalibrate these much harder policy issues yeah well I would say acknowledging that is not a concession to uh is not admitting to something right like like compassion towards Israelis is not to take anything away from no you know who's evil conduct of the war also but and as much as a two state solution seems like something you just say to get out of the question it's not like a one-state solution

is very appealing not creating either so it really is like a you know it's been a morass for a very

“very long time but you have to do both like yeah of course I have enormous empathy for people”

in Gaza the suffering the Palestinian people like having empathy for the Israelis who are hurt or or killed or kidnapped that day or the people who are scared by the events of October 7th like they're not mutually exclusive we can do both and I think it's just it's gotten a little bit lost from the debate and I would just also say too like from the other side of it like you can go back to or being describing the importance of a peace process in part because you would get

to the point we're at now or people would stop being willing to accept a two-state solution right and start demanding a one-state solution that that you know you when people criticize modernity right because he gets the question like do you support the right of a Jewish state to exist and I support a state for it for equal rights to exist those circles can be squared there can be a state with equal rights that has a Jewish majority but that requires a Palestinian

state which requires the a U.S. that is willing to put an extraordinary amount of pressure on Israel to remove settlements from the West Bank and make a two-state solution possible because the alternative which is increasingly what people are demanding is one in which there is no longer a Jewish state in a region which which there are a lot of Muslim states or you know a state that is that's a defacto apartheid state with different laws for different people different

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morning you might as well wake up ready for them quick question are you politically engaged

and spiritually exhausted if you said yes to both welcome home I'm Aaron Ryan and I'm Alyssa Mastermonico and we're the host of hysteria the podcast for women who care about democracy culture and not losing their minds in the process we break down the news call out the nonsense and spotlight the women actually fighting back on capital hill in classrooms and everywhere the stakes are high it's sharp honest analysis featuring women's voices with humor and zero hand

holding listen to hysteria wherever you get your podcasts and watch full episodes on YouTube speaking of shifting and amorphous borders we haven't discussed on the show but Mitch McConnell has been absent from the Senate since he was hospitalized in mid June his staff and others have tried to down plant on July 1st according to dispatch audio reviewed by ABC news and other outlets a person at Mitch McConnell's address was discovered unconscious and a cardiac arrest and EMTs

performed CPR this is led to rampant speculation that McConnell is somewhere in the twilight

“realm between life and death where he will be held and this is what the I think the conspiracy is”

where he will be held until August third because after August third the November election would

be for the next term as opposed to for the remainder of McConnell's term and Thomas Massey who is obviously a free agent could run for the Senate so goes the conspiracy conspiracy theory would you care to recklessly speculate man I don't know this wasn't really on my radar screen until today but you know then I'm seeing there was a reporter named Desiree Townsend who was quote tweeting Laura Lumer so Laura Lumer for folks who don't know is this crazy far-right

activist who back in the day once chained herself to the offices of the Twitter building in New York because they like just can't like they got rid of her account or something or I don't think I was there I don't know yes something like that so she was like a fringe litatek but now she is very close to Donald Trump there's all these reports about how she'll walk into the Oval Office with a list of names of administration officials and get them all fired

“including like high level people I think she got like the head of the NSA fired right so Laura Lumer”

is someone who has a lot of access at the White House she tweeted a couple hours ago today high level source close to the White House tells me Mitch McConnell is officially brain dead he's not coming back now that is obviously crass phrasing but I and I don't normally believe her but I do believe that someone close to the White House would tell her that and then a journalist who apparently had like reported out a broke the story of Mitch McConnell's initial cardiac

issues confirmed what she said so there's just all this churn and it's not coming from like the kind of resistance left it's coming from the far right spaces about McConnell's health and there's just no transparency and then his wife is in China for some reason she had yes she was on a trip on very soon after this had happened which was a little bit strange so yeah and but but I will say as far as ways for Mitch McConnell go out

holding on to power even even in the face of grim death even in the face of the ultimate end itself as he shuffles off this mortal coil it's the way to do it it's how it is it is how he'd want to go he'd want to go in some sort of nefarious thought in which he has kept the lie to fuck Thomas mass yeah I think that's exactly what he would want and as much as I I don't approve of it I approve of it yeah yeah I died of this boots on yeah we don't know is the

we don't know we don't know if you live or dead can't say something when I worked for Hillary Clinton when speaking of the issue we're previously talking about Ariel Sharon had fallen into a coma remember he was the prime minister's very a hawkish prime minister of Israel he fell into a coma

die at any moment and it was going to be a statement from Bill and Hillary Clinton together and

“we went back and forth and then it went up whenever to the to Bill Clinton's office and it came back”

and the line of it the the last line of it said an Ariel Sharon died with his boots on and not afraid so what have you said just what he wanted to because he was still serving as in America when he fell into the coma is working and then Ariel Sharon was in a coma for weeks months maybe longer was it years he was in a coma for a very very long time and we would have this internal debate being like how long after you fall into a coma are you no longer dying

with your boots on oh yeah I'm saying do you just leave the boots on the whole time because like he didn't die with his boots on because that was he may have felt that he got into a coma

with his boots on but we can't keep the sentence and this was weeks yeah you're probably

being more comfortable with the boots off yeah the boots are off yeah the boots are off walkin speaking of being old America turned to under 50 this week and Trump got to hold his big freedom to 50 rally the culmination of months of meticulous planning there was dangerous heat lightning pandemonium and off smoke to cause a cold red air quality alert and then on the morning of the 4th of July a white nationalist group called Patriot front uh featuring around 400

masked men carrying Confederate flags and chanting reclaim America marked through the capital good news they decided to be climate conscious and take public transit bad news these Uber mentioned should have taken Uber because the master ace couldn't master the metro here's how went yeah they uh there's a uh a great photo circulating of these guys in their masks on the train and this woman just sitting there like what the fuck is going on here so these guys that they

couldn't figure out how to use the metro I think that they were trying to use one person was trying

“to swipe them in but I I wonder if they got a bit uh flummics by the fact that you have to I think”

tap in and tap out oh I don't know that's still the case in DC I believe it it's I think that's must have been confused by the tap in tap out that's the situation there uh so uh that was Trump's July 4th a uh fireworks display that uh seemed like the capital was being nuked and that filled the entire region with smoke give a pretty uh uninspired speech a lot of the uh there was a lot of people fishing out to try to us from the sad reflecting pool which has I think been through

enough yeah really uh and I think that closes the chapter on the uh 250th birthday America deserves for putting this man in charge yeah it's just the whole thing was just just sloppy mess in a bummer yeah yeah people passing out you got like I mean again Trump couldn't have predicted the weather it's not his fault that it was 105 degrees but what it's dangerously hot outside the thing you do is you cancel your speech yes you don't have your supporters line up for hours and hours

“and hours and then you don't put secret service in the situation where they're clearing out”

the national mall because of dangerous thunder and lightning and the supporters are like accusing them of you know some sort of conspiracy theory to steal from his big day the whole thing was just selfish and stupid and sloppy and half-assed and it could have been really cool and it's just a butter it is now various democrats uh had their own July 4th counter programming uh including Zaron Mamdani who gave a uh great speech just before the holiday that caused a bunch of

conservatives to lose their mind uh here's a few moments from the speech uh which Mamdani delivered from a desk used by George Washington and we've naturalized U.S. citizens all around him. hours as a nation working each day towards the perfection in which it was conceived a nation striving each day to better itself they're analyzed the work of America the striving the bettering the reaching towards perfection what a privilege each of us has

to live in a nation that every one of its inhabitants can shape what a responsibility each of us possesses to prove ourselves worthy of all those who came before what power each of us holds to bring America ever closer to the greatness so many have seen when they looked upon these shores the greatness that for 250 years has been America what a comedy fuck so I saw the reaction before I saw the speech what do you think you're like oh god what do you say and you watch and you're like oh

that's incredibly patriotic I was it look it was a very Obama message to no surprise that I liked it like being patriotic and optimistic talking about America's flaws but in a hopeful way I mean like that's a very it's a tough needle to thread for a politician especially if you're brown or black uh and you saw in the reaction where you had all these people accusing Zora Mamdani

of attacking his country or you know being critical of it it's like guys Trump literally says

we were a dead country until I came back you know his view of America is unless he's in charge it's dead it's irredeemable it's American carnage we're making America great again so it's just like

like I thought it was a great speech it was an interesting that he decided to step up and do it

because he they had to know that this was gonna be the reaction but I imagine that it was just very important to him in this moment where Trump is trying to repeal uh birthright citizenship and all these kind of like pillars of what makes us a country that is great um that he wanted to be like to voice the I'll turn it if you yeah like when I saw I was like oh that's so interesting he makes interesting he's gonna do something he's gonna make a news what we're news a news making speech around

July 4th and he's doing it because the podium's open when the podium's open he's taking it

“like it's just it's open exactly and I thought like I was like there was a I think it's Bill”

Akman uh and a bunch of people were saying oh we see even sitting at the desk wrong right that is yeah because the desk has drawers on both sides and so they saw him sitting on the side where and they said oh this dummy doesn't have a sit at a desk yeah and it really captures

to me like just the the first of all the assumption that everyone but them is stupid right and

that there were so many conservatives jumping in to say that this speech was dark and hateful that like how dare this person but some of them say how dare this immigrant who's only been a citizen for eight years criticized my country fuck you uh but they didn't want to list right because it's a beautiful and patriotic speech and uh he's very like you know he did the same thing with the uh with that speech around the nicks winning where he's just you know what like I'm gonna

there's a moment my job as a leader is to make the most of moments as they come and he's just so good at that I think it drives him a little bit crazy yeah especially people like Bill Actman where um he's making an economic argument and going right at people like Bill Actman I think

they're the line was like the powerful thing America is an arena of supremacy and the rest

of us should be grateful for being allowed to visit and he said how small they are uh how weak and uh I saw a a tweet from Elon Musk from over the last couple of days where someone was

“telling him that he essentially saying you should oppose universal suffrage and Elon said I have”

wise up so we've got this trillian out I'm drilling here all the garks suddenly coming out against all of our having the right to vote uh so it felt uh important and timely because you basically he was trying to say the powerful to try to divide us to turn us against each other uh and we can't let them do that we need to come together and like fight for the working class uh and acknowledge America's flaws but then continue to talk about how to make it great and greater so

it was it was nice to hear yeah uh and uh I enjoyed the uh the freak out over it especially from people that I don't think they consumed it I don't know I think they just started going at it and assumed it was something that they wouldn't like uh and uh like Fox News Collins was you know a dark and uh like anti-american unpatriotic and uh have out of guys it's just uh it's sort of uh

“slop for the audience that you know won't see it either exactly but not us this is slop for”

people who read the articles uh and you can support protomocracy media by becoming a friend of pod go to crooked dot com slash friends you help us build independent media that gets good information in front of more people you get ad free episode you get subscriber only shows like only friends when we really let loose you get dance show public poster you get a bunch of great news letters get a bunch of breaking news uh content without ads it helps book or building here so please please

please if you're not a subscriber yet become a friend of the pod and uh support Tommy thank you and that's our show thanks for joining Dan and Alex Wagner we'll back with a new episode on Friday see them positive America is a crooked media production our show is produced by Austin Fisher Saul Rubin McKenna Roberts and Ferris Safari with re-chirlin Elijah Cone and Adrian Hill our team includes Matt DeGroat Benhefco Jordan Cantor Charlotte Landis Carol Pelave David tolls Mia Kelman Ryan Young

and Naomi Single our staff is probably unionized with the writer's guild of America East quick question are you politically engaged and spiritually exhausted if you said yes to both welcome home I'm Aaron Ryan and I'm Alyssa Mastermonico and we're the hosts of hysteria the podcast for women who care about democracy culture and not losing their minds in the process we break down the news call out the nonsense and spotlight the women actually fighting back

on Capitol Hill in classrooms and everywhere the stakes are high it's sharp honest analysis featuring women's voices with humor and zero handholding listen to hysteria wherever you get your podcasts and watch full episodes on YouTube