Trump's Wars Are Bankrupting America

- Welcome to Plates Haven, America. I'm Don Fever. I'm Dan Fiverr.

“On today's show, we got some fresh new polling”

that shows Trump's forever wars dragging down his party and boosting Democrats. We'll also talk about the president's spirited defensive data centers and launching Saudi Arabia's nuclear program,

congratulations, as well as all the drama over which states

will go first in the 2028 presidential primary calendar,

which the DNC is debating as we speak. Then, Dan talks to our pal and former Obama colleague, Jennifer Paul Mary, who's out with a new series, co-produced by your friends here at Cricket about the politics of the South.

- Right, with just about 100 days left until the midterms. Trump is ramping up the two forever wars he started that are now bankrupting the country. His war with Iran and his trade war with everyone. He told Axios this morning, quote,

"I am considering a massive attack on Iran "bigger than ever before because Iran "hasn't received enough pain yet." This despite a U.S. intelligence report that more bombing won't change Iran's negotiating position.

Nothing's getting through the straights right now. Oils now back over $100 a barrel. Gasses back over $4 a gallon. And Trump had to go to Dover Air Force Base on Wednesday to witness the dignified transfer of four more Americans

who lost their lives in this war.

Here's what the Commander-in-Chief had to say

about all of this at an event in Georgia later in the day. - This is with this skirmish. We have with the Islamic Republic of Iran. And I call it that, because let me tell you, they're getting it so hard.

When I go to Dover, I read charts on all of the young people and some are unbelievable. Some were a little bit, you know, they got a little bit of a little couple of little bad things but this is a son who is like a flawless, perfect person.

He's looking down right here, he's still proud right now. So together, we're making our country safer and stronger and far more successful than it's ever been before. And that's happening before you very eyes. It was, I thought ourselves before, as you know,

and we won, we had a great success against this guy. He reminds me of Pinkie Herman. Do you ever see Pinkie Herman? - You ever see Pinkie Herman, Dan? - No, no, I haven't seen Pinkie Herman.

- You've seen Pinkie Herman. - A few things about that, now we're talking about all the bad things about the soldiers who died, whose bodies he greets for a dignified transfer it over, luckily for that soldier who died that he talked about in that rally,

they were only good things, but sometimes there are bad things apparently, so that was normal. - On the charts. - On the chart. - On the charts. I don't know if you also saw the beginning there,

do you see the guy in the suit behind Trump

“who was doing an impression of Trump, I think?”

- Yeah, was that flattery, mockery? - I assume flattery? - I don't know, who can say? Who can say? Pinkie Herman, he really can't land the Osoth name.

It was, remember on truth social, he had John Os, jerk off, and he had jerk in parentheses. That was better than Pinkie Herman. - Wasn't it? - It reads better, it doesn't sound, you can't really say it,

you can read it and you get the jerk off thing. - Yeah, it's hard to do error parentheses at a rally, better than Pinkie Herman though. - All right, there's no Pinkie. - There's no, there's no Pinkie Herman.

- There's no Pinkie, and he didn't conflate to 1920's characters or something, right? I don't believe so, because later he did say P.W. Herman, I think he read it wrong, but he's a creature, he's also a creature of the '80s,

so you think he would know P.W. Herman? - Not know him personally, but like, would have been really good. - I mean, it's very good chance he would know him personally. - Maybe, who knows where they used to hang out,

I can't write, I can't cut the theaters. - All right, I was gonna have a question about all this. Oh yeah, right, so it made political poll. Half of Maga Voters said that the Iran War was worth the economic costs in this week's poll,

only one third of Maga Voters think that.

These are just Republican Voters, these are Maga Voters, these are Trump supporters. One person closer to the White House told Politico, the president is now fully aware

“that the only way to the victory he wants”

is completely politically impossible. Do you think he's actually aware of that? - Ah, that's a great question, John, it's hard to say.

He doesn't really care, I think,

“about anything other than getting gas prices”

and oil prices down without looking like he surrender to Iran. He wants, he wants the war to go away, but he doesn't want to look like a loser in doing that, which seems like an impossible circle to square

in the current situation. Also, he seems, in the, you know, this is gonna, I'm thinking of the worst attack ever. He, like, maybe there is a plan somewhere that he takes at the drawn up for the worst attack.

They probably have some contingency plans, but it's really seems like Trump trying to threaten them. And then he gambes down this 100 times now. You know, I'm gonna blow up the bridges, I'm gonna blow up the power plants,

and we do all these things, then he doesn't do them. And Iran just keeps doing what Iran is doing, and nothing really changes. And so his threats, his words, which is not a great place for a president to be,

but his words mean nothing domestically or diplomatically now when he's talking about the war.

“- I've always thought that the best way to understand Trump”

is that he is just a, like, a cable news viewer who became president, like a cable news fanatic. And so his understanding of war is that of someone who has watched, you know, the Iraq war and other wars unfold on cable television.

He thinks you just press some buttons and drop some bombs. And if you drop enough bombs, then the war stops. And because he now is in control

of the most powerful military in the world,

I am sure he's running around the way I was being like, "Well, we just got a bomb a more. We got a bomb a harder. Well, bomb bridges. We'll bomb power plants. We'll do all the war crimes. I don't care."

And the more we do that, suddenly Iran will stop. And he clearly has no idea what the reality of the situation is, which, you know, the Wall Street Journal just had a story that satellite imagery shows that they are rebuilding

in Iran faster than the Israelis or the U.S. anticipated after all the strikes. And so, like, there is, and like I mentioned, there's that U.S. intel report from, again, from our own intelligence agencies, just the other week

that says, you know, no amount of bombing is gonna change the Iranian negotiating position. You just cannot bomb your way out of this war. And I don't think Trump has come to grips with that. And I think when they say his optimal outcome

is politically impossible, and he's realizing it, or maybe he's not, it is ground troops in some kind of a ground invasion.

“- I guess, I mean, I guess that's what he,”

I mean, I guess if the military assessment probably the only way to actually force Iran to open the straight to give up their power, to give them the power, whatever the dust, whatever it else, would be to simply invade the country.

I guess, you know, yes, that is politically impossible. - And I think some of the things they might be considering now is they're back to the, if we take car island and maybe some of those islands around there, then perhaps we don't need like a full ground invasion,

but we can take those islands and that'll help open the straight. I don't know. - I think they are, this is, I mean, it's very bad. - It's very bad, and it very much seems like we're gonna be dealing with us through the election.

- At least, and maybe many, many, many, many years longer because it's entirely asymmetric. In order for the straight to be open, we have to stop Iran from even threatening the idea of firing missiles or drones at ships.

So if we open, we'll say we take all these islands that, you know, cause lives, money, et cetera, let's say we do that in 20 ships go by. But if the 21st ship gets hit with a drone, a missile, gets damaged, that is going to then dramatically reduce traffic.

- Yep. - Like we're trying to do something that is not actually possible in the situation we're in. If in less Iran, I see there's surrender or cooperate and Trump can't get them to do neither.

- That's wild.

There was, however, one, exciting diplomatic breakthrough

in the Middle East this week that I'm sure Americans will love. Trump reached a deal that would allow Saudi Arabia to pursue a civilian nuclear program, which could lead to them enriching nuclear fuel. They'll Trump denies that.

He also said that it's on the condition that the kingdom normalizes relations with Israel. I guess if you can't destroy Iran's nuclear program, the next best thing is to launch Saudi Arabia's. It's wild timing on this plan.

I mean, what? Also, who it trips like he denies it could allow him to enrich uranium. Of course it can. Like that is the deal, that's all point is.

- What does the internet happen? - But then he, I mean, this is sort of a very Trumpian, which is, there are substantive arguments why some would want Saudi Arabia to do this. This was a long process, there's a long memorandum,

there's an agreement on how it goes forward and how it will comply with non-proliferation and safety and all of us. They do all of that. It gets very bad reviews.

Trump must probably seize a bad review

or someone calls them. So then he tweets out a condition that is not in the deal. Saudi Arabia must normalize relations with Israel. So I mean, Saudi Arabia said,

it will never do and undoes all of the work.

- Also, why are we launching a, a nuclear program with an autocratic regime? I know that we are ostensibly allies with Saudi Arabia because we have to be for a number of very complicated geopolitical reasons,

maybe not that complicated. - Yeah, it's pretty simple job. - Yeah. - It's oil and Israel and everything else. Okay, so there's that.

But like I don't know, we've already looked the other way when MBS brought out the bone saw and they are an extremely repressive regime. And now we think that it's a good idea to launch a nuclear program that could lead to

more nuclear weapons, another nuclear power country in the world of all the countries do, not even a democracy? - Yes, you're 100% right.

“Like why are we going out of our way to make this happen?”

Because the Trump families in business with them and is done to the deal. - That's one reason. But then there just is from the perspective of timing, which is just very funny.

Like I can imagine, I can imagine being Trump's communication. I can imagine the White House communication structure. And you have spent the last four months arguing at how the greatest threat to America is Iran having nuclear weapons.

And we cannot do it. Then as you're doing it, as the war to quote unquote stop them from doing that is ramping up some other part of the administration, the fucking Yahoo Energy Secretary,

who's named no one can remember, Negotiates a deal to give Saudi Arabia one. And like that makes to the American public that makes zero sense. Like, yeah, but, you know, but that Iran is an autocratic regime

that's repressive. Oh, yes, that's right, they're on our side. They're on our side for now. - I mean, the way a lot of them are people in Trump and it is, yes, we are giving

any kind of weapon to the country we're 15 to the 19 9/11 hijackers came from. - Right, yeah, of course, it's an important thing to do. That's right, I'm sure I'm sure everyone understands the difference between the different factions and alliances

in the Middle East and why we're helping Saudi Arabia get nukes, but not unfun. - I mean, there was a U-gov flashball that showed that only 90% of people supported this idea. - Yeah, I can't imagine it's a winner.

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Also a reminder that we're not just paying for this worth, the gas pump, but with our tax dollars. Pete Heggseth, who oversees a $1 trillion defense budget, is apparently about to run out of money in a few weeks because in his words, quote,

it takes money to kill bad guys. Which apparently they haven't done enough of.

He's asking for an immediate cash infusion of about $70 billion,

and in order to pass, would certainly need some combination

of the three Republican senators up in November, all in very tight races, Susan Collins of Maine, John Houston of Ohio, in Dan Sullivan of Alaska. Do you think it'll pass?

“And also, is this the easiest no vote ever for Democrats?”

I would imagine that this does not pass before the election. And then they just run out of money at the Pentagon? Wow, they're gonna, they can find money in the Pentagon. Yeah, I do think they're, they're, it's very like like, they're about to run out of lines of funding that have to do

with this war, and I guess Heggseth is moving some stuff around. They're like, they're canceling military exercises. Well, not the ones to kid rocks house, right? They're parking, they're parking jets to like say, I mean, they're, this is crazy.

This war is fucking, is bankrupting the country. And the defense department is if there are no other threats in the world.

The, I mean, it does once again through the asymmetry.

This was just a run of sending cheap fabricated drones towards us. And then we're shooting him down with very, very expensive missiles. It's wild. But I think, you know, the in the Senate, John Thoon is said, he will not work on this reconciliation bill that would fund this until

after they do government funding for the September 30th deadline, which suggests to me that he really would like to do this in the lame duck. Although, did you see that they want to, he was, he was contemplating, attaching government funding to the reconciliation package, so the government funding can pass with just 51 votes.

Yeah, that'd be another option for them to do it. But then you'd still have to force columns. You just have to force dead and Sullivan to vote. I forget how many you would need of those. But well, you're going to get federalments vote almost certainly.

Right. So, they can all take a walk. All three of them. Well, we are at 53, 47. Okay.

You have to get to 54. 53.

But they'll have 54 with federalment.

He's not 54 with federalment. You lose three, which gets you to, and you only need 50 anyway, because he can break the ties. So they can all take a walk on if they want to. And McCouski.

And McCouski. What about Rand Paul? A bit Rand Paul won't vote for him. Well, yeah. I mean, it is, it'd be easier for Thoon to do this,

because in addition to his vulnerable senators, he also has other people who don't want to vote for it. So, you can see why he, if he can't, my guess is, if he had his brothers, he'll win. And he may not.

This, he would push this thing to offer the election. Take the vote. Go ahead. Do it. Yeah.

Do it right now. Love to run on that. So, the political poll, I mentioned earlier, showed that people correctly view around as the top reason, shit is so expensive.

But a run-up was tariffs, which Trump has apparently decided to double down on. Another, also great timing, just like the Saudi deal. This week, he announced a new 50% tariff on most imports from Canada, including wine, hockey sticks, and cement. He also announced tariffs as high as 200% on imported generic drugs.

Within a few years, import imported generic drugs, make up the vast vast majority of people's prescriptions in the United States. His theory here is that he's telling all the drug manufacturers to come back to America and manufacture here. And if they don't do it by 2028, just in time for the next election,

the next presidential election, everyone's getting hit with a 200% tariff. On prescription drugs? Stupid. Like, stupid and probably politically incats the country on the short term. Right.

“But I, well, you could, you should, people should talk about it.”

But it's got, that it's coming. That he wants to do it. Because he's out there. The only affordability thing he can talk about is he's. He's like making up some shit about Trump RXs if it's like some big discount

that he's offering people on prescription drugs, which it isn't. But they clearly know that prescription drugs is a very salient issue for people and one that they had been on the wrong side of. So they tried to get on the right side. And now he's doing a 200% tariff.

Well, let's go back to the tariffs on canics. I think he'll have said an important part. Why, John, tell me why he put these tariffs on Canada. Um, I don't, I, is it, did he say that it's because of the smoke? Because the, because that's what the reports say.

I mean, I knew he was pissed at them about the smoke. And then I knew the tariffs came, but for some reason I thought it was another explanation. But of course, it's the smoke. Yeah, they, it seems like the most, the reason that Americans are going to pay more in costs for many things.

It's because Donald Trump doesn't understand how wind works. I mean, if you imagine you were sitting at the NRCC, the NRCC, the House Senate,

“the Republican leadership, and you're just trying, or even any one of these campaigns, right?”

You work for John Houston or Mike Collins. Good friend of John Ossoff or any of these races, and you're just like, truly the White House is trying to destroy us in this election.

Yeah, he is, I mean, he finally passed the bipartisan housing bill. He refuses to sign it because he wants to take, he wants to prevent people from voting. He starts a war. He starts a, uh, of he reunites his terror war. He spends all of his time talking about building corporate funded monuments in Washington, D.C.

It's like, it's like deep down in his soul. I really think Trump doesn't want to win the midterms. Like, he just, he's trying, he does it like intellectually, he wants to win the midterms. He thinks he wants to win the midterms, but his subconscious is trying to lose the midterms.

Unpopular wars that are bankrupting the country while he makes $2 billion since he's been in office.

That's it. That's the, that's the midterm argument right there. I mean, you really don't have to say much more. Speaking of voter anger, the White House held in affordability event on Thursday where Trump was supposed to show how he's protecting Americans from increasing power costs because of

data center construction, a hugely salient and unpopular issue. And as usual, he nailed the whole, I'm on your side thing. You have communities that really want the data centers. And frankly, those are the smart communities.

“You have to convince you, community, how great these things.”

You can't fight it. You have to go with it.

To your last point, he's just, he's really trying to lose.

I mean, a Gallup poll in May showed 70% of people do not want. I would not want a data center built in their local community. 70%. I think data centers are the sleep ratio of 2026 and beyond. The polling is very clear.

It is a bipartisan issue. It isn't an issue. It lists its tremendous passion from polling and Democrats, as you say. More than two thirds of voters do not want data centers in their communities. Majorities of voters think that the pace at which data centers are being built

nationally is happening too fast.

The large majority of voters, in some cases, two thirds of voters believe that data centers are leading to higher electricity in utility costs. They think it is poisoning their water. It is bad for their community. Some of them, most of them, do not buy the arguments about

job creation, economic growth. And this is an issue that is bipartisan in the United Democrats. The fires people up and is an issue with absolutely crystal clear contrast with Trump. He said some dumb shit here. But the policy of his administration is to build a data center on every corner.

“Not because that's what's good for America.”

Not because that's what's good for those communities. But because the billionaire roll the garks in the AI companies to tell them that's what they want. Like this is like Democrats, there are some Democrats who are very strong on this. But this is, but for the most part, Democrats have been overly cautious on this because they're so afraid of the AI superpacks. Coming in and raising the ground with their hundreds and millions of dollars.

But we are, this is a sleeper issue, Trump's on the wrong side. We have to be on the right side. There's also, I've noticed some Democrats, maybe not Democratic elected, but sort of Center left writers, pundits, who like defend data centers by saying that like, you know, if they could lead to it could help with more energy and energy efficiency and all this other shit. And I'm like, I think, I think that no one is ready to hear of the possible benefits of data centers when people are looking around their communities.

Seeing these awful things being built that could jeopardize the environment that could send their electricity costs soaring. And it is a stand-in for everything that people don't like about AI, which is a lot right now. Because when you look at the polling, too, it's not just that people oppose them in their own community. People oppose them in other communities as well, which makes you think that it's a, it's about, it's not just about the physical data center. Like, where you live, it's about what it represents, which is AI taking over everything.

This is an issue I've been working a lot with with candidates and campaigns and activists who subscribe to Mr. Brooks Pro, who's adding this is a huge issue.

“A couple of things I would say in a though is if you're going to talk about, you must be prepared for the pushback on increasing the tax base locally in economic growth.”

Because there is those arguments do have some purchase with letters. There is also a skepticism on a national ban. That has changed that's been changing a little bit recently. But people, voters have very conflicted views of AI. They're deeply concerned about it. There is some optimism that, you know, it could be good for the country in the long run, if done, if done right with the right amount of regulation. And so there is some hesitancy to say, stop everything right now because there's a fear that we could fall behind.

And interestingly enough, I know you guys talked a little about the techies, the most recent techies poll on Tuesday's pod, but Latino voters are actually more positive towards AI and data centers than population writ large,

And so it's not like it is an issue we have to be very strong on, but there is like a little nuance to the argument.

“But if you are overly nuanced and you're not standing up, particularly if it's in your local community, I think you're making a huge mistake.”

What are the arguments against data center construction that are the most resonant with people? That you're going to pay for it with your utility bills. And that it is bad for the environment and the community, or the ones that have the most. But it's going to raise your cost is like a number one, and where you've seen the biggest battles on data centers or in states that have very high utility costs. Right.

Like in Maine, that's one of the reasons that Jim, it mils his popularity has been down is people are very upset about data centers in Maine. She have used that bill on this. Yeah. All right, so you would expect all of this to translate into good polling results for Democrats. And it is.

Some eye popping numbers in this week's polls. Emerson has Democrats at plus 11 on the generic ballot. Pew has these at plus six and Fox news has it at plus seven. And in their poll, Dems are at 53%, which is the highest percentage. Either party has received on the generic ballot in Fox polling since 1996.

Fox also showed Democrats more trusted to handle income inequality by 22 points. Health care by 21 points inflation by 10, the economy by nine foreign policy by seven. And April Republicans had an eight point lead on immigration as an issue. Now Democrats are up by one point on immigration.

“Anything else jump out at you from all these polls?”

It's funny. When I saw that in 1996 number, I was like, holy shit. I don't remember 1996 being a wave here. What was it? We picked up like three seats.

It's like I don't know. But I think these numbers are excellent. And we may look back and just say that this what these were a little bit of outliers. Because they're the polls are in any moment of intense focus on the Iran more and tariffs and Trump's two worst issues. But I also think it's we could look back on this in a few months and say this was the hinge moment in the election where it broke in Democrats favor.

Yeah, but it's like what it, the ceiling on Democrats to this point has been people do not like Trump. They do not, they think he's doing a terrible job on these issues, but they trust Republicans run the Democrats on these issues. And particularly the economy and inflation.

“And there was a, well, maybe that Wall Street Journal poll that was, I think late last year earlier this year,”

which should almost every single issue, other than health care and climate Republicans. People go to stress the Republicans over Democrats. The fact that Democrats have a 10 point advantage on the economy in this Fox News poll is incredibly consequential. Trump had an advantage on the economy in 2018. We picked up 40 seats.

And the economy is a more resonant issue this time. That's very good for us. And just to give you a perspective of how much things have shifted on the economy in that Fox News poll. Republicans have only a seven point advantage among white non college voters on the economy. Oh, wow.

Trump Trump won that group by 34 points. And 2024.

Like this, and they kind of always has been Trump's superpower.

It has been the thing that has held him a float to this point. He lost that superpower, but Democrats were unable to take advantage of that. We are starting to make real gains there. And if that stays the case, we will have a very good 2026 in terms of the national popular budget. It won't look like the seat gains from 2018 because of all the jury mandering and redistricting the second place,

but it could be a very good year if these numbers hold. Yeah, I was happy to see this because I feel like in the last month there have been a number of polls where Trump's approval is in the shitter. But the generic ballot was closer than you'd expect from Trump's approval being that bad in the same poll, right? And so that you have polls where it's three, four, five. Now, all three of these polls could be outliers, but there are also all three of them high quality poll.

High quality rated very highly Fox, Emerson and Pew. So who knows, but maybe like you said, maybe it's a focus on Iran. Well, look, I mean, gas prices were going down before the MOU went to put and we were back to full scale war. So that, you know, it could be a second. They could come down again for sure.

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That's Walmart.com/grow@warmart. All right, let's get to the latest on the Presidential Race, which we're talking about because the DNC rules and bylaws committee met this week to face the RBC. The RBC? Yes.

“That's what people in the no-collect, the RBC.”

They met this week to figure out the early state primary calendar for 2028. Most of the reporting points to four states that are likely to make that window before super Tuesday and March. So this is in the January February window. South Carolina, Nevada, New Hampshire, and Michigan. There may also be a fifth state added, and now reporting is centered around possibly a new Mexico or Virginia.

But the order of which states go first is very much up for grabs and the source of all the drama that's been leaking out of these meetings.

South Carolina and Nevada are jocking to be the first state fueled by what Axios called a long simmering feud between black and Latino leaders. New Hampshire has a law that requires the state to hold the first primary, so that's tricky. There are 49 people on the committee who will decide this, and one of them told notice, quote, "It's going to be a bloodbath. Most states represented have at least one or two members on the committee, and I think they're all going to fight to the death for this."

Great. So what are the big issues here, and how much does the sequence matter? So let's do the issues first. I think there are a handful of things that need to be in consideration as you do this. The first is the first four or maybe five states.

Any states that come before super Tuesday have dramatically more impact than all the states that come afterwards. These are the states that window the field. They are the states that help pick the front runner. They matter a ton. And so if they're going to matter a ton, they must represent the full breadth of the democratic court in the electorate, right?

“You need to have states with large black population.”

You need Latino voters to have a say. You want theoretically a swing state in play. You want rural voters to have a say. So it's got to have real representation, and of all the parts that I'm credit for me. That's one.

Two, you also want the states to be states that play in ways, both in terms of the voters you appeal to, the size of the state that that gives the best chance of picking your best nominee, right? You can't be for giant states where the person with the highest name and the automatically wins. Shouldn't be for tiny support, rural states or forced states or they're generally similar. You want it to look like you want it to be a like a good trial run for general election.

And then what I think is really important is you want because millions of dollars and thousands of hours of tens of thousands, a hundred thousand hours of organizing is going to go into these states. You don't want all that investment to go to waste in the general election. Like you remember this, we were together in Iowa in the 2020 caucuses. We're flying out the day after the caucuses ended, but there's still no winner declared.

And at the airport with us were all these organizers who worked for Bernie Pete Biden, Elizabeth Warren, who had spent the last year in Iowa, who knew the names of every Democrat and caucus go were their names,

their fund numbers, their kids names and these communities and they were leaving to go to another state to never return to Iowa again.

Yeah.

“If you're going to organize these states, you want to have some benefit that you're like, so I think those are sort of the main considerations.”

There's one more thing, which is you need if you're going to move a state's primary. You need control democratic control of the state. Yeah, this is a very the most practical concern. Yeah, yeah, this is not like something about winning the election or anything, but like you can't. Because some of these states have already had their primary set and the legislature sets it.

And so if the Democrats have said, oh, we want to move it up. You'd have to go to the legislature and if it's a Republican legislature like in Georgia, the Georgia was being considered instead of South Carolina because it would make more sense for a whole bunch of reasons. It's a competitive state. South Carolina is not. Still also has a very large black population.

But we don't control the legislature in Georgia, and so there's no reason to believe they would ever move the primary date for us. So no, I mean, there's all these like little things in here that are really the same like they should be done, but are quite consequential.

It is New Hampshire, while the New Hampshire goes first no matter what.

New Hampshire insisted on going first anyway. In 2024, and got no delegates face a huge price and it's like in the back of the convention, they either have to theoretically change their law. If they don't go first, if they're not picked first here, probably shouldn't be picked first. Nevada, this is really not a Nevada is a vote by mail state where votes count if they are postmarked by election day. So if Nevada is the first state, you couldn't call the, there's a chance you wouldn't be able to call the winner on election night.

It is the moment this propelled, you know, the propelled Obama in 2008, all that like so that that's a consideration. That's the other bunch of little ones like that. If George, if we, if we won the partnership in Georgia, which is when I'll talk to Jennifer Pomerry about later in the show.

“You can maybe do it there, but you won't know that when you have to make the decision on this.”

So New Hampshire. They have this law. They can't change the law or, I mean, they could change the law, but we have our public and governor there and our public and. They control at least one part of the legislature. Yeah. Can't do it. Kelly, AI does not kind of do it.

Because the Republicans want New Hampshire to be first.

Right. So I don't know how all the reporting is like, well, it's between South Carolina and Nevada for first. How are they getting around the New Hampshire problem? Even if New Hampshire, even if the New Hampshire. I'm sure, Democrats on the, at the DNC, agree. Like, they still have the law.

So I don't know why they're talking about South Carolina and Nevada first. They would just not, if New Hampshire can't change the law, and the New Hampshire would not count. People would just like 2024. Remember, I mean, this has happened the past. You may remember this from a different period of our lives in 2008.

Florida, Michigan moved up to go to early against DNC rules. Their primaries did not count because of that. They were awarded no delegates when we didn't even compete in those primaries. And so New Hampshire could, if they don't pick New Hampshire, New Hampshire has its primary on that day. It's for nothing.

No vote. No delegates are awarded. They guess they could have. I heard a rumor that this is possible that they could have that primary that day. No, no delegates awarded.

And then the state party can organize and put on a primary when they're supposed to have it agreed by the rules and by law's committee. Yeah, you could theoretically do that. Although, I'm not sure. There must be a way to do it, but I'm not sure how you would. Fun that if the governor wants you to do it.

So that's one issue. The issue you cited with Nevada is worry some to me that we would not know who the winner is for. That seems like a disaster in the making. But like there's this big fight between South Carolina and Nevada and the chair of the South Carolina Democratic Party said in the New York Times that if Nevada goes first, then it will say something about how the Democratic Party views black voters. Which I think is quite a statement to make.

And then the chair of the Nevada Democratic Party, who is a black woman as well. She was like, well, 15% of our electorate is black also. And what are you talking about?

And also does that mean that if South Carolina goes first that the Democratic Party is saying to Latino voters that they don't account as much like this.

“But I just feel like the best way to deal with that is to let the state with the law that's supposed to have the first primary go first.”

And the next have South Carolina Nevada go within days of each other. Like, yeah, like how much is the order matter among the early states, right? Like, I get why you want to be in one of those five states in that window. But, but like, if New Hampshire's one week and then South Carolina and then Nevada, or then Nevada, then South Carolina, like how much does that matter? It matters a lot to the people who own TV stations.

Cool. In those states, it matters a lot to the people who own hotels in those states. People who have companies that rent bike rack and the things for rallies. Because I mean, because the first day first day people will be there for a long time for longer and spend more time. And then it's diminishing, right? Because the, you put all your most recent, the first day, because for most candidates, they don't get all the first day to not go anywhere.

The front miners then put their second most resource in the second state and you're sort of like, well, if I make it to South Carolina, would you be the third state? Well, or Nevada, we'll figure it out from that point on. Right. There are a lot of the calculus on this is really dumb because there is this reporting.

“I think this is in Peter, Handbees, excellent piece in Pock, that there are some folks who are very worried about Nevada.”

Because they think a C. Kidwin, this is you and I both. Yeah, this is not. And the argument is because Bernie won, but just have put some numbers on this. And because it was a caucus in 2020 when Bernie won. And they made it out. It was a hybrid caucus that were four days of early vote, and then the actual caucus day.

But even with that, there were 105,000 Democrats who were just spit it. In the primary in 2024, when Biden was running uncontested, essentially. 150,000 people voted. And if there are 500,000 registered Democrats in the state. If it if it operated at a turnout level like a typically condescending press of primary,

there would be like 250 to 300,000 people vote. So it's a very different electorate. And it's a more moderate electorate.

Because for a couple of like just because primary electorates are always more moderate than caucus electorates.

Because to go to a caucus, you tend to be highly engaged more of an activist.

And you're going to sit in a town hall somewhere for hours and hours.

And so the people are more committed. They tend to be more partisan. And so like Bernie Sanders organizing the culinary workers in Nevada and winning the caucus that way. Versus an AOC trying to win over a larger primary electorate of. And yes, younger than South Carolina, more heavily Latino.

But still, a lot of like non college working class voters, which like yes, she could do well. And but like so could any candidate, it's not it's not obvious that that would benefit. Progressive candidate like AOC over anyone else.

And then there's there is concern about Michigan because they thank you.

Gaza make Gaza dominated a shoe in the primary.

“Yeah, I think everyone's overthinking this.”

We don't know what the world's going to look like when people are campaigning. You know, when these elections happen to, you know, a little less into years from now. Yeah. It's it's fascinating. And how they ordered will does affect things a lot.

The only other thing I'd say is. The identity politics fight about which voters we care, which that that is. Not particularly constructive. It is true that black political power in this country has been decimated in a lot of ways by the Supreme Court in terms of congressional representation and all of that. But one thing that I think is not gotten a ton of attention is because of the way the districts where all these majority minority districts, which are mostly black across the south. We have been written out of existence that is going to diminish black voters influence in a longer primary process because those districts are ones that perform incredibly well and you get a bonus delegate.

“If you perform above a certain level and so that the way Obama and Clinton really cleaned up across the south is that they were claiming all five delegates in those districts.”

Those those there are fewer there we almost no district's like that left across the south and so there is a. We know the opportunity to have a say in the process earlier does I don't think the South Carolina is necessarily the first but that it did the process doesn't look like it used to for black voters. Now post the VRA decision that did before undoubtedly one of the five early states should have a heavily black population undoubtedly. Yeah, it is particularly rich for South Carolina to be the ones complaining about this because that is a state that plays no role and it is the one state we're talking about.

Yeah, that plays no role in the general election whatsoever.

And so when you talk about like time wasted by candidates who are organizing in a state that they're never going to go back to.

That's I mean you could make the same argument for New Hampshire but Michigan Nevada. You know again it would have been much better if we had democratic control of Georgia to make just Georgia would be the state and that would be it. But you also have a lot of black voters in Michigan. Yeah, Michigan one in about one in five democratic primary voters is black in Michigan. Yeah, and you and look ideally you want a southern state to be in the top five that.

“No matter what and it just it because of who controls the legislatures it seems like we're stuck with South Carolina.”

Yeah, North Carolina is also an option that could have been there with Carolina would have been good. Where we control the government ship. Why didn't North that's an interesting one. I wonder why North Carolina didn't. And then I guess Virginia also but Virginia the reason people are full of Virginia is because it is a way to have a southern state. That solves the Georgia problem because we control the legislature that you could easily move it up.

Well, I'll tell you this. If it isn't Nevada, we will be moving production of this show to Las Vegas for many months. Maybe even a year. John, I've been to Vegas with you. We should do it when we can at a time. I just think an extended period is not going to be good for anyone.

I love it. I don't know what we want to happen to him. Oh my gosh. Yes, it's going to be a real problem. Staff's going to love it. I can just tell. I can already see the excitement here. All right. Last thing before we get to dance conversation with Jen Palmary about long play. On Tuesday evening, White House deputy chief of staff, Dan Skaveno posted a minute-long video on his official Twitter account.

Set to some theme music that some of you might recognize who are Millennials are older. In which he paned his phone camera around the walls of the Oval Office and admiration of Donald Trump's interior decorating. Check it out. [Music playing] For those of you just listening, this is a lot of gold.

Some more gold. There's a lot of model airplanes here. [Music playing] Looks like fucking Saddam's Palace. [Music playing]

Yeah, the Saddam's Palace thing is right.

“Except this makes Saddam's Palace like a pottery burn.”

[Laughs] Oh, God. It's so much. Is that the Liberty Bell? [Laughs] [Music playing] Okay. So, what'd you think, Dan?

It's not often you get to see. When you see the Oval Office on TV, you only get to see part of it at a time. So, you don't fully understand how absolutely Gody it is now. It's just... it's gross. It's gross. There's just too much gold.

And it also looks like cheap gold. And I'm sure it's not. I'm sure he just spent whatever, but it's just... it's busy. It's too... it's tacky. The model airplanes make no sense. There's some real substance here that we can talk about.

The post, Washington Post is out with a new poll about Trump's big self memorials. Found that about two-thirds of Americans are unhappy about the renovations in DC. The Trump renovations led mostly by Democrats and independence. There is a big intensity gap, 67% of Democrats chose the most negative answer, upset. Whereas only 31% of Republicans chose the most positive descriptor in enthusiastic.

How much of a political liability do you think? Not just that oval, but all of this shit is.

“Every one of these things is in a fortability issue.”

It's just like, this is... do people... do they really passionate about an ugly arch on the mall or they might have time the president or like what the reflecting pool looks like? No. What they are upset about is that when the prices are growing up, the president is spending so much time on the resin on the bottom of the pool.

Or on individually hand sourcing gold flake for the White House. Or when he went shopping for marble armrest like that. That is to people just like he's supposed to be finding for me and he's doing all of this shit for himself. What a waste of time in energy. I will say, I'd rather him be doing that than focusing on the economy

because when he focuses on the economy, he makes everything more expensive. Not less expensive. That is a... And starts last half full take. If all he did was just run around and sourcing gold leaf from other places

and just left everything alone, we would probably be doing a lot better. We'd probably do better than when he actually focuses and decides he's going to slap more tariffs on shit, start more trade wars and forever wars.

So he basically needs at all times some sort of fidget toy.

Yes. Maybe taxpayer funded, fidget toy, or...?

“Girl, you're a funded fidget toy, but that's what you wanted me doing.”

Yeah, that's just a thought. Alright, when we come back, Dan talks to Jen Paul Mary. Pods of America is brought to you by China. It's no secret that everything is expensive right now, which means you probably want to know if you're getting the most out of your money.

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Join me now as the former White House communications director, the Emmy-nominated host of the circus and creator of the new show "Long Play," but you can find on YouTube. Anywhere you get your podcasts,

join me now as my old co-worker, my friend, Jennifer Palmary. How are you? I'm good. I'm so psyched that this is like,

that we're actually doing the show, and now it's also out in the world and people know about it. It's very exciting. On Monday.

On Monday. Yeah. Yeah. It drops. Yeah.

We have two episodes.

There are first episodes drop on Monday.

They're about Georgia and Texas. Okay. That's right. This is a six-part series on how Democrats win back power in the South.

I'm impressed you can do this in six parts. It's simply quite a task. You have been to Georgia and Texas. Yeah. What did you find in where you go next?

So, okay. So Georgia, I mean, every state is super interesting. Right now we're in North Carolina. So this is episode three. We'll be North Carolina.

We're going to go to Tennessee next. Then we're going to Alabama. And then episode six is a jump ball

So we're figuring that out. Does the Oklahoma count this the South? It does. It's a melted up and like whatever you know. I think it's MSAs.

“Do you remember that like metropolitan statistical areas?”

It is. Yep. While it is classified as part of the South, I think they consider themselves pretty Western. But I just find an interesting place.

There's interesting Republican leaders there. Mayor David Hold from Oklahoma City. Governor Stitt's kind of interesting guy. So we'll see. So let me start with Georgia because like what's fascinating

about that place is like why it is different from all other southern states and why it became a belt. I'm in North Carolina right now. Right.

And why did Georgia flip first?

Why did Georgia flip before North Carolina? Like I think we're both old enough to have. When like we thought North Carolina would be the one. Right. But Hillary lost Georgia by five points.

And then Biden won. Hillary lost North Carolina by like one. You know, one point something points. And Trump came back in one in 20. He won in 24.

And I think, you know, and what you learn with Georgia is. Intention matters that that state like there was decisions made in Atlanta 50 years ago at the end of Jim Crow beginning to civil rights by. A white Mayor Mayor Hertzfield that Atlanta was going to be the city. Too busy today.

You know, that was like partly an economic reason, right? Because racism is bad for business.

But with intention, Mayor, then Mayor Jackson, you know, the first black mayor of Georgia

“of Atlanta followed him and built that's why Hertzfield is so huge.”

The airport because they wanted it to sustain a black middle class. Georgia is the state that it was the heart of the Confederacy. It was the heart of the civil rights movement. And just as, you know, 50 years ago, the civil rights leaders had to come together to make things to make change in Georgia. So did black voters matter.

So did Stacey Abrams. You know, they didn't, because like, Dan remember in Georgia 10 years ago or so, it was Let's run conservative Democrats in the Zell Miller, you know, of sort of mold, right? They're like kind of almost Republican. And most of the Republican governors of Georgia, by the way, were former Democrats.

And then Stacey Abrams is like, no, we're going to do something different. We're going to like build a different electorate. We're going to change the electorate. You have Senator John Osaf, Senator Rafael Warnock. They are running different kinds of campaigns.

And they, you know, and they won in very tough years. We're not going to get in 22. You know, John Osaf is like in a good, it's in good shape right now. But it mattered what happened 50 years ago and that decisions that were made in Atlanta that are different than decisions that were made in Birmingham. Different than decisions that were made in Raleigh, North Carolina.

So that reverberate today. And so you just get a sense of, and then of course, moving with intention now and trying to do things differently in Georgia. Like it matters. And that's sort of the inspiring part is if people come together and try to make change and they're smart and consistent about it, you can do it. And so let's talk about Texas.

Super interesting. So I spent a lot of time in Texas in 2018. As many people did. Oh, for better bunch of events with better. You know, washing that race.

Democrats got their hopes up there. This was a state that where it's the one state.

“I believe the Hillary Clinton outperform Barack Obama from 2012 was Texas and she is so, so much substantially.”

In 2018, look good and then snap back in 20 snap back further in 2024. See new moving much redder Democrats are pretty optimistic about James Toleraryco this time. What did you find in the state? I was pretty, you know, I was a little skeptical of Toleraryco coming into the state. And I left with a different view.

You know, what is I think faith is a faith is a very big deal that Democrats discount too much in the South. You know, I think there are there are big structural reasons of why Democrats and black voters are disenfranchised in the South. And, you know, that was sort of the impetus for this series to understand all of that. But also there's a big cultural disconnect.

What was amazing about and I did feel this in Georgia and also in North Carolina.

It's like, I'm not saying Toleraryco is necessarily going to win. But it feels more fluid. I think as we're sort of the tail end of Trump's popularity. And since he was not an ideological conservative. Voders are, it's more of a jump ball for them, right?

So, for example, and we went to Terran County. I interviewed Taylor Remett, who's the guy who's the state senator that flipped Trump's seat earlier this year. Because I had an open election, open seat. You know, and he was basically like, look, I'm a machinist that just knocks on people's doors and, you know, meet somewhere they are. And they understand, like, who I am when it comes from, I don't associate with the Democratic Party of National and local level.

The other thing that that happened was we interviewed PTA moms in Terran County, right?

“So Terran's Fort Worth is the big swing.”

It's the swing of the swings in Texas, particularly this year. These are three Republican women.

One was like a never Trump Republican.

The other two identify themselves as an evangelical Christian conservatives. And they are not just voting. They're just not sitting out, not just voting for Governor Abonette for reelection. And they're not just not voting for Ken Paxon. They are voting for James Taloreco and Gina Inahosa. Because they're so upset about wait for the maga take over of their school districts.

So, like, there was a big, it's so interesting, Dan, because it's like the call. It's a little flat back to 20 to Glen Yunkin and loud and county in critical race theory. And all of that in 21 and in the 22 midterms. And what one of these moms said is her child was an infant during COVID. And she said, "I heard about critical race theory."

She said, "I was concerned about it." Because I don't want any children to feel like they're not equal or victimized. I heard that boys are going into girls' bathrooms and boys are playing sports. She's like, "So I voted for this maga school board candidate." And then she said, "My son goes to school and I come to find out.

They're not teaching critical race theory.

They're just teaching normal history." And, you know, we need to know the good and the bad parts of history. They're just teaching ABCs and one, two, three. She said, "There's no boys going into the girls' bathrooms or boys trying to play in girls' sports. Not at our school."

And she said, "I kept saying, "Show me where it's happening." And so then I came back to her and I said, "Well, you know, you're saying you're going to vote for Taloreco. But what about, like, Jimmy's six genders that Ken Paxon throws at him." And what about low-titaloreco? And they're like, "We're tired of that.

We're tired of that."

So if that's breaking now, if people feel she said, "I feel dupt now."

“So I think a lot of times we can hear maga voters and think they're wrong,”

but not understand that they're saying what they believe to be true. And once these women found out that that was not true and they're super fast. They like the dual language programs. They like to the DEI programs that are in the school because it gave their kids more opportunity. So I'm like, if these women are voting for James Taloreco, that's a different deal.

But also, sort of more importantly, for the democracy, it felt like people questioning things more and being more open. Were there things that the absence of all the things they said were happening in school districts, whether things the maga school ward was doing in the schools, whether it was book banning, is changing the history curriculum that they were reacting to as well? Yeah, it was book banning, they hated that.

You know, oh, interestingly, both of these women who were evangelical Christians said, "I don't want the ten commandments taught in school. That is not what school is there for." She said, "I do that at home."

“And I think that, and they also didn't like, they had, I guess, very aggressive and good dual language programs.”

So that, from a young age, you know, English-speaking students are being taught, Spanish, and they're going to, they're going to come out of that school district fluent. And they got rid of all of that. And then there was a, you know, confusing takeover where the state started closing schools as well. And that happened to, and of course, it's also very, this sort of state takeover is also very antithical to the, you know,

what we think of as traditional Republican ideology and that rubbed in the wrong way as well. He's not, you know, Trump is not popular there. We also fascinating, Mitch, landers spoke with two Hispanic small business owners who had both, their construction, they have a construction company. They had both voted for Trump. They were very patriotic, a vote of room for the economy.

And they're going to vote for Democrats now too, because the way he's corrupted immigration enforcement, you know, has, like, has handicapped their business. And also, it's really, and do you know, in a host of brought this up to it seems it's really struck a chord with Hispanics and Texas, their patriotic pride. You know, they're really proud to be American. They think they've worked really hard for that.

They're culturally conservative, and it's, it's an insult to them when they're, you know, when everyone is rounded up, when no one, when, when, when, when, you know, whether you're here with documentation or not is treated as the same. Super interesting place. Yeah, I mean, I'm very fascinated by Texas. It's, you know, I don't want to get my hopes up for it,

but this is, there's a convergence here between the kind of Republican vaccinated, the kind of Democrat, uh, Tolerico is the dramatic, this is the dramatic shift in the Latino vote,

I mean, if it's going to be, he's going to pay a price for it. He, it is in Texas more than almost anywhere else in the country.

“53% of his banic men in Texas voted for him in 24. I think it, a big jump.”

It was like a 13, 15 point jump from 20, but that feels, you know, that feels tough. Now, I mean, you know, Texas is still super conservative. It's, you know, it's just to remind everyone it's not all awesome. Yeah. Houston, it's places like Tyler, it's, you know, places like Loretta.

We went to Loretta, which is super cool, you know, right on the, my hotel balcony looked out over the Rio Grande and the border. It was like, our hotel was sort of part of the border patrol. I did not understand what I was looking at for like two minutes.

I mean, I, I, Dan, I thought it was like the catering part of the hotel.

I was like, oh, that chain leak fence with the awning, that must be where they bring the catering down. I was like, oh, that's, that's not what happened. Oh, that's, that's what the borderless is. Right, Democrats are going to have to do better in the south, particularly when the, as the electoral map is going to change up a 232 census. The blue wall is to, well, the being sufficient to win the presidency.

In and of itself as Pennsylvania and Wisconsin potentially lose electoral votes and Texas and Florida gained them. So we, there's Georgia and North Carolina, where that, you know, Georgia is battleground state. North Carolina is a battleground state, but as you point out, it's one that we've struggled with. In the presidential level, although have won a, you know, work, we've run three statewide governance races there. We want to confuse to statewide races last time.

Is there another southern state that you look at that could be the next one to go? Like, is there a Georgia in the making out there somewhere? It's a law, I think it's a long way off, but people point to Alabama as that state. Because of the size of the black population.

“Because of the sign, I mean, the here's the thing with Mississippi and Alabama, right, that it is, I think Georgia probably has the third highest per capita percentage.”

Black voters, Mississippi and Alabama have the highest there about 39%. And, but what's happening, and they just have not been, you know, and I was born in Mississippi. I lived in Mississippi and South Carolina until I was 11. So kind of, you know, I love this part of the region.

It, like, would kill me down how we just, like, a Democrats, like, I left and I never had a reason to go back because even for work, right?

Because we just, like, it's like, well, this is, this is what happens when you ignore a region. And the thing with Alabama is, there's a high percentage of black voters. There's just a lot happening there. Huntsville is a big, you know, NASA is there. There's a lot of research there.

There's people moving to Huntsville. I think it's, like, the second fastest growing city in the South. It's diverse. So kind of the way that the research triangle in North Carolina attracted new kinds of voters. Huntsville is doing that.

And then Birmingham is really growing economically, but also you're started to see new kinds of democratic infrastructure to come into Birmingham. So Doug Jones is running for Governor there, former Democratic United States Senator. We're going to go, I'm super psyched to Alabama because, you know, you just don't hear. It really interesting culture to interesting music. Music's a big part of the show too.

So that people are moving with a little more intention in Alabama, but, like, it's a way. Tennessee is kind of the, I feel like Tennessee is another place that with focus could change. There's a lot of people that are pretty, you know, really angry at the way they've just, you know,

“I think at the, after this election, that there will probably not be a democratic member of the House representative, Tennessee anymore.”

Right. We're going to make sure that we have a lot of people. And then the expectation is come next year. They will during the state legislature as well. And that the resentment there is building now.

But you got to get better candidates. As we are having this conversation, the DNC rules and bylaws committee is meeting about what the, the presidential calendar is going to look like. There's John and I talked earlier in the show a lot about it. But one of the things that some people think is very important is that there's a Southern state in there,

and maybe two Southern states, South Carolina being one and then possibly either North Carolina, Virginia or possibly Georgia, although, as John and I discussed, you need the government to change the law to move the primary, which, you know, this possible, you know, the government legislature, which is could be an impediment there. Do you think that having the democratic primary president's primary take place in the South would be a net positive,

or a net negative for impressions of the democratic party in the South or ability to win in general action?

which is in is really important.

“And, you know, I think if you look at the stereotype of a Christian conservative mother,”

who's Republican and voter for Trump three times and Greg Abbott three times, you probably didn't imagine that she didn't want the ten candidates taught in school, and that she wanted her children to be taught Spanish, and she did not want this kind of takeover of schools, right? So there's so many stereotypes that I feel like familiarity, our candidates in these states,

you know, and the staff, you know, the like infrastructure, democratic infrastructure, if it's on the state to, I think is a net plus, but I can imagine some of the concerns that you and Facts might have raised. Yeah, I mean, we didn't get it too much into like the long-term impact. The question we had was about, you know,

obviously that we need the states to be representative of the party in the country,

and you want the states to be, there's sort of a short-term in a long-term, right? With the short-term is, it's great if it's in a swing state because you do all this investment,

“and right, in building infrastructure there, and then you can use infrastructure in the general,”

which worked right in the years in which I/O and New Hampshire were swing states, right? Right, yeah. Right. I/O less so at the presidential level, New Hampshire sort of on the cusp there, but there is this argument for long-term, which is if you actually had people investing in the state, you know, you had a two-year cycle or an 18-month cycle where people were organizing the state within an inch of his life, that could be, you know, then you have the right demographic movement, you have the right political environment, you might actually.

That's kind of the, get some investment in the state that could lead to some of things you talked about in Georgia, at least on the progressive organizing side. I think that would really help in North Carolina in particular, you know, because I think the problem in North Carolina is in attention to rural areas. And, you know, I talked to some rural state lawmakers, the representatives from the Black rural counties, and they're like, there's just, you know, maybe if they heard something other than caricatures of Democrats,

they would feel differently. So it is, like, it's that kind of stuff that's killing Democrats. It's the national, you know, particularly if you're running for a federal state, whether this in the House or the Senate,

“it's like, that's, you know, that's why North Carolina is sort of the inverse of Georgia, which is, it can elect governors,”

but it can elect senators and Georgia, they elect senators, Democrats, but not governors. Oh, the hopefully we'll be electing a Democratic senator in North Carolina this year, because if we don't earn big trouble, if we're a Cooper's not winning, we're not taking the Senate. Now, let's go, but I would just say the thing that they're like, they're nervous about, the could be people in a risk by a couple of things. One, Michael Wattley has the Republican opponent has not gone up an area.

That may, you know, he's not, you know, so they're like, hey, we're at 48 percent.

His approval rate is 48 percent. I would like work. It was the approval rate need to be at 50 percent, you know, it's not. Yeah. And they haven't even gone after him yet. And then, you know, it's just a tough, it's just a tough state. And people aren't giving them as much money as other candidates, because I think North Carolina is fine. So, but North Carolina has elected that guy a lot.

I think, I think, four types of AT, six. Yeah, and twice with Trump on the ballot, which is a great feat. I talked to Governor Cooper a couple of weeks ago on Potts, America. And you can feel the trepidation of people, too many people are counting the chickens before they're hatched here. And just, this is, this is not going to be a seven point race.

He's not one of my seven points. It's going to be a very close race. It's just, there's this, as you point out, he's right. Kind of, you know, right around 50 in his, in a lot of this polling, but either, but he's not a high above it. And so, a lot of that vote, while he's going to pick up and make it close. And so, it's going to be, you can be a close race.

One interesting Democratic National candidate. I met in North Carolina, it's just as a Jamie Ager, who he is running. He's in Western North Carolina in your Asheville. His grandfather was a congressman, but he is not just not, he's just, it's not, he's just, it's not feel political at all. He's a farmer.

And he's running against Chuck Edwards, the incumbent, who just about a month ago is like, "Oh, wait for it, Chuck, or has, like, you know, problem with, like, sexually harassing his staffers, and there's an ethics investigation of him." So, that's like newly interesting. And he's like a very compelling guy.

All right, we will, we will check that. Fed hogs with him. I am, I'm very excited for long play. Everyone should check it out. YouTube, where you get your podcast. This is fun for me, because I am a long time Jen Palmary fans. So I'm excited to watch it myself.

It's a very, very cool project. We're very, very excited to be participating in it with you, and it's great to talk to you. Thanks, Fiverr. That's our show for today. Thanks to Jen Palmary for coming on.

It'll be out on Tuesday.

“I'll be back on Sunday with slow-borings, Madaglacius,”

diving deeper into the midterms in 2028. Can't wait.

Bye, everyone.

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