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Every day and PR up first brings you the three biggest stories in under 15 minutes.

They go into what happened and why it matters. It's short and thorough, fact-based and personal with national and international news and one easy listen. Listen to up first from NPR wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Potsay for World On Time TV Tour. I'm Ben Rhodes. Then that was a hell of a time in Chicago last week for the Obama Library opening man.

It's fun to see you briefly. At World Wind, yeah. I got to parachute in for the book tour so I didn't get to go to all the parties you guys went to but I saw it a great time. You missed the hangovers, which is nice for you. Well, maybe you didn't. I don't know. You saw you spent a day with Cody as well. So you might actually tacked on both of us.

“Yeah. Well, I hung over from fatigue from this book tour but I got to tour the museum”

on the day that it was open to the public. That's a cool thing. And that was really kind of special because it was basically all kind of south side families. And I was the kind of only person there like who was kind of an alumni. Yeah. And so I got to kind of watch how other people were reacting to it. Yeah. And that was pretty cool, you know.

That is really cool. I mean, like not to be corny but it felt like a family reunion and also a revival that left me feeling like, I don't know. What other work reunion like that are you that happy to see so many different people like genuinely like overjoy to like reconnect with people. And then also, again, not to be corny but it really did make me want to just be more involved in politics and like more civically engaged and less of like a cynical asshole

on Twitter, which, you know, we'll see how long that holds. But it was, it was well done. Yeah. I have to say like it affected me more than I thought it would both to have like thousands of people there that I knew or could recognize. But also just the kind of, you know, without even trying that hard, the contrast of writing, you know, whatever you think of the Obama's not being perfect, like decent, well-meaning, motivated, articulate people. Yeah. Who like have a certain

decorum and respect for politics in the country as contrasted against the nightmare that we live every day. I mean, it was a powerful contrast. Yeah. The bars low. I mean, Sasha Malia, we're not

day trading on the Obama upper oppression on my country. Yeah, they never drove, they weren't selling

drone technology to the US government. Yeah. But yeah, no, it was an awesome, awesome week. By the way, if you want discounted tickets to another fun, exciting, inspiring live event. Of course, talking about Kirk, we can 20, 26. Consider becoming a friend of the pot subscriber. Kirk, we come up in November. Friend of the pot subscribers get ad free episodes of this show, add free episodes, pot save America, get tons of bonus content, including extra pot save America episode,

get deep dives and the polling, come to and fight for newsletters and a lot more. But also, discounted ticket to Kirk at Khan, cool VIP experiences at Kirk at Khan. So go to Kirk at dot com slash friends to learn more. So we got a great show for you guys today. We're going to explain what's in the ceasefire memorandum that was signed by the US in Israel. We'll walk you through all the details, which side got what they wanted, what's left to be negotiated, what's not mentioned

at all. We'll also recap the first round of peace talks in Switzerland and explain why there is still considerable ongoing risk of global economic disruptions from the closure of the straight of her moves and also returned to war, especially in Lebanon. Then we're going to turn to the historic political changes happening in the UK. We're Prime Minister Kier Starmer, announced he's going to step down and knew the elected MP Andy Burnham. We'll almost certainly

take his place. Then we're going to talk about why Israel decided to become the first country in the world to establish diplomatic relations with Somali land. We'll cover the

he did our interview today. What are we going to hear? So I talked to Rhanna Ayub, the extraordinary investigative journalist from India, who's been on the pot a couple of times. We talk about this new cockroach movement that has emerged in India against corruption and

“Modi. If you want to know more about how there is a movement called the cockroach movement that”

has got fire, definitely check out the interview. We'll also hear about how Modi's up and down relationship with Trump is playing in India, how they're worn around is impacting Indians, how the bromance with Netanyahu, which included a trip to Israel on the eve of the worn around that is now wreak havoc on the Indian economies gone down. So good check it on India, which we haven't done in a while, Indian politics and foreign policy, people should check it out.

Didn't the US shoot like a bunch of missiles into the ship that killed three Indian sailors in the street or a moose? That's it, Rhanna talked about this too. This is the, they killed three Indian sailors and Modi said nothing about it. Do you imagine if they've got to us? I mean,

yeah, we will work more. Yeah. Anyway, it's definitely always listening to Rhanna Ayub, she's an

credible journalist, like, you know, bravely doing work under great threat to herself and, you know, people around her. So, well, thanks to her for coming on the show. All right, let's start with the

“what's in this MOU band, because late last week we finally got to see the text to the memorandum”

of understanding, signed by the US and Iran. And it's now clear why Trump was trying to hide the thing and not disclose it. So the peace talks have also already begun. We'll get to that second. But we're going to start just by walking you guys through what is and what is not in this document. So there's a ceasefire, including in Lebanon, the two sides agreed to 60 days of negotiations, but that negotiating period period can be extended. During that time, though, the 60 days,

both sides will end the blockade of the Strait or Hummus and the US will start to move military assets out of the region that were used as part of the war. And then Iran says that we'll not put fees on ships passing through the Strait during the next 60 days, but down the road, it sure seems like they are planning to. And then this is the list of stuff that I sort of categorize as what Iran wanted and got out of the deal. So the US is going to put in place a 60 day waiver, a sanctions

waiver on the sale of Iranian oil and petroleum products and derivatives and such. One progressive

“economist estimated that Iran could make up to $10 billion off of that move alone. At some point”

in the near future, Iran's going to get access to about $24 billion in frozen assets. This is mostly

money from previous Iranian oil sales. They got stuck in foreign bank accounts because of sanctions. And the MOU language is quite clear that they can spend this money on whatever they want. Like this is the text. The funds, quote, shall be made fully usable for payment to any ultimate beneficiary designated by the central bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Iran gets a commitment to remove all sanctions. That means US sanctions, UN sanctions, all of them. And then this is

weird proposal to put together a $300 billion reconstruction fund of private money for Iran. I'm skeptical that this is ever going to happen, but Reuters says there's been 150 billion in the commitment. So who knows? And then in terms of the US wishless Ben. So the Strait of Formus gets reopened kind of like in theory, we're back to the pre-war status quo, but in practice, it's a lot more complicated because shipping companies need to feel safe before they're going

to send their massive multi-billion dollar tankers into war zones. Iran reaffirms, they will never

have a nuclear weapon. We say reaffirmed because they've already affirmed it before both in the NPT and the JCPOA. Getting them to say that is not the hard part. It's negotiating the ways to prevent it is the hard part. And then in terms of enrichment, whether Iran will enrich nuclear materials going forward, it says the two parties also agree to discuss the issue of enrichment. So they punt on that big question. And then in terms of the stockpile of highly enriched uranium,

Iran has agreed to at least downblend its stockpile of enriched uranium, but not necessarily to ship it out of the country. Downblending means you reduce the purity of the stockpile so that it is less close to weapons grade. So maybe you downblended to 3.7% or 3.67% which is what you use in civilian energy projects or 0.7% is what's found in nature. But of course you can then enrich it back up if it remains in the country. So not mentioned in this deal is Iran

support for proxy groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. Also not mentioned is Iran's ballistic missile program which in the beginning of the war we were told was this massive existential threat that had to be taken care of. Don't take it for me then here is Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The purpose of this is to destroy that missile capability. Why does Iran want that ballistic missile capability? What they are trying to do and have been trying to do for a very long time

is build a conventional weapons capability as a shield with it can hide behind it, meaning there would come a point where they have so many conventional missiles, so many drones, and it can inflict so much damage that no one can do anything about their nuclear program. Iran was building powerful missiles and drones to create a conventional shield for their nuclear

blackmail ambitions. Our bases are people are allies all in their crosshairs.

Iran had a conventional gun to our head as they tried to lie their way to a nuclear bomb. Forgot we already also put the war crime beat poet, Pete Hexath, and that clip. So Ben, we've said this many times, the best available deal was the one that happened fastest in real-open Australia to her moves and prevented economies in Asia from collapsing and famines from kicking off around the world. But in terms of the stated goals of this war,

reading that document, we now know for sure that Trump got taken to the cleaners by the Iranians. Yeah, and I think you can compare it to also where they were in the negotiating table before

“the war, because we have to remember that we bombed Iran in the middle of a previous negotiation.”

And again, in that previous negotiation, the US position was absolutely no enrichment, absolutely no support for proxy groups and geographic limitations on the ballistic missile program. I.e., they can't reach Israel with ballistic missiles. The ballistic missiles and the proxy groups are completely off the table. Enrichment is punted, so it's not really dealt with in this. And then if you look at compared to the JCPOA, Iran did not get any money from its own frozen assets,

any money whatsoever until after it did all of its commitments under the JCPOA. Shipping out, it's stockpile ripping out centrifuges destroying the core of its plutonum reactor, submitting

to inspections. They're getting that 10 billion, just upfront. Like if they're able to start selling

down the way you're accessing, yeah. So they're getting that money without having to do anything with their nuclear program essentially upfront. We don't know what the final commitments are going to be on the nuclear side. We don't know what the inspections regime is going to be to ensure that Iran carries through on its obligations. It's incredibly loose. And the body language of the deal is one of surrender. It's one of Iran won this war. We failed in our objectives. Trump once out.

He's far more worried about continuing the war, continuing out the straight-of-form moves shut down because of the economic impacts than he is scared of, you know, what Iran will do with the money or how it's going to look that Iran seemingly defeated the United States in this conflict, the BBNN now is upset about it. That's very clear to the whole world. And so that suggests that there's not a lot of pressure on Iran to make significant commitments in this next negotiating

period because they know that Trump just kind of once out of this thing. And so however this all shakes out, Iran is in a stronger position than they were before the war. The United Trump is doing all the things that he trashed Obama for doing. And frankly, lied about some of the things that Obama was doing. I mean, like there's no way to look at this other than a complete humiliation for

“Trump. Yeah, I'm glad the war is over. But I do think it's important to just call out how full of”

shit in hypocritical Trump and a lot of his goons were both in the lead up to this war, but also in their criticisms of the JCPOA. I mean, I found this old tweet, Tim Miller, forwarded to me today Ben. It was JD Vance attacking me personally and saying it was, quote, "complete idiocy" to suggest there was a distinction between unfreezing assets and giving Iran money. I wonder if you still believes that or that I'm suggesting that some sort of diplomatic deal could force Iran

to spend money on humanitarian supplies like JD Vance is now claiming this deal does. But it wasn't just JD being a hypocritical piece of shit. It was a bunch of them. Let's roll a clip here. Iran was a country that was in deep trouble. They were doing badly. And then we took the sanctions off.

We should have never taken the sanctions off before we finished the deal. We took the sanctions off

before. You know why they're great negotiations. They said, "We will not negotiate unless you

“take the sanctions off." And our guy said, "Okay." If you want to check Iran, the way to do it”

is to run with draw their oil money, which of course should have Biden's been mad about it. I do want to be recorded for history's purposes before I know what was going to happen in regards to this of it goes through. Iran will immediately use the money that it's receiving in sanctions relief to begin to build up its conventional capabilities. It will establish the most dominant military power in the region outside of the United States and it will raise the price of us operating

in the region. Consider yourself recorded for history, Marco. It's just a little later than you thought. It's just at the time that the JCPO happened. They were making these bad faith arguments, right? That the unfozen assets that Iran was getting under the JCPO, again after they did far more significant things on nuclear commitments, was like writing a check to the Iranians, right? And now they're making the exact same arguments like they don't even, I mean, because you know they've

no shame. There's a kind of, you know, bottomless well for them in terms of their capacity for hypocrisy. I think that the important point here though is that the failure, right? There's two

of diplomacy. It's the failure of the war, right? This is the point like going to war left us in a

much worse place than using diplomacy did. Yes. This is the main lesson that Americans, Democrats and hopefully some Republicans will take from this. The reason these terms are shitty is not just because they're shitty negotiators. It's because they had a shitty or hand because they went to war. Exactly. And all the decades of hearing that, you know, to where you show your top and the way to solve problems is to bomb countries and to go to war was just proven like categorically wrong.

“And I think the other thing the deserves to be called out here is the absolute like bad faith”

characterizations of diplomacy in the past because they spent years discrediting a nuclear deal that they now would give anything to get. Yep. Exactly. Like, and there has to be some accountability for this and our politics and our media is so bad at holding, you know, why is anybody going to ask Lindsey Graham, his opinion on anything ever again? Dude, I lost my mind. I could really be up for that matter. Or Ruby, right? I mean, I saw Lindsey Graham on face the nation this Sunday.

He was saying, oh, well, if this deal doesn't work out, we're going to go back to war and then Trump's going to take control of the straight, then we're going to take 20% of all the revenue for the oil that goes through. And it's like, why are you booking this fucking moron on your show? Exactly. How many words does he have to be wrong about? He's wrong about Iraq. He was wrong about Iran. He's a barnacle who just lives on Trump's ass. And like, we don't need to hear from this man.

We don't ever need to hear from Mark Dubowitz or anyone at the foundation for the defensive democracy think tank. Like, no one has been as thoroughly discredited with the stupid, warm-unger, bloodthirsty, neocon hacks. Run them out of Washington. Stop quoting them in your articles. David Sanger and New York Times. Like, all of you, like, lose their phone numbers. Please, they are fucking clowns. Yeah, they're just pissing on your leg. You know, I mean, I'm sorry that

you gave me an image that I will always have of Lindsey Graham being a barnacle in Donald's ass.

You're welcome. But it's absolutely correct. And because this is the point that this connects what I was saying about the war and the accountability, you are treated as serious in Washington.

“Yep. If you want to bomb countries. Yep. Right. So like, if you're a super progressive,”

if you're like a leftist in Congress, you would never get booked on a Sunday show because it's like, you know, that person doesn't, that's not a serious farm policy person, right? Lindsey Graham is far less serious. This is a man who just advocates for war and then can turn on a dime if Donald Trump like instructs him to do so. He's not like the FDD crowd and all the people that sold this war posing essentially is like impartial experts when they were

clearly just fucking pushing an agenda to do this. And now we did the thing that they wanted and it proved out to be catastrophically wrong. So there's no reason that you need to like treat these people's experts just because they want to fight wars. Yep. And I've said this a couple times four time, but like it was harder to get the JCPOA through Congress than it was to go to war in Iraq than it was for Donald Trump to go to war in Iran. That's fucked up. And that's what

needs to change in American politics and media and farm policy. In 2015, the Congress passed a

“special law just to make it harder to do diplomatic deal with Iran. But they've completely just”

like given up their role in declaring war or you know authorizing war. It's it's in the same. But let's talk about the peace talks of Ben because the negotiation between Iran and the U.S. took place in Bourgan stocks whatsoever. And over the weekend, you see photos of this resort there, right by the way? Look, pretty nice music. Things got out to a rocky start. On Saturday, the IRGC announced they were closing the state of Hormuz again because of Israeli attacks on

Hezbollah and Lebanon. I don't think they actually did it, but traffic is nowhere near where it was before the war. So Trump took that announcement by the IRGC very well, telling Fox News quote, "You close it and you won't have a country. You won't even make it back to your fucking

country." And quote, so it's always good to threaten to kill the negotiators right before you have

a little chat. Despite all of that, the talks finally happened. Unfortunately, they were led by J.D. Vance, who's a clown and the kind of like the bumbling idiot traveling duo of Steve Witkov and Jared Kushner. The two sides claimed to have agreed to the following the establishment of a high-level committee to provide political oversight on the talks. And then there's a working group of like actually qualified people that will do most of the work and the negotiations.

They agreed on a roadmap to get the deal done in 60 days. Communications line to avoid incidents in the straight of Hormuz. And then a quote, "deconfliction sell to ensure the adherence of the termination of military operations in Lebanon as per the MOUN quote." So Trump trying to find some sort of way to prevent fighting from Hezbollah and Israel from flaring up into a rupture that sort of blows up the whole thing. But there's also some major disagreements or at least competing claims

from the two sides. So J.D. Vance and Trump are saying that Iran agreed to let IAEA inspectors back into Iran. But Iran says they have no plans to let inspectors back into sites bombed by the

they got kicked out. So the war started. Vance also tried to claim that unfurls in Iranian assets would

“only be used to buy American crops. As I discussed earlier, Iran is saying, "No, we can spend”

that money on whatever we want." It's kind of in the terms of the deal. Trump claims the

straight is fully open. It's moving at record volumes. The reality is like a couple dozen ships a

day are going through. That is not even close to the pre-war levels and there's still naval mind to contend with. And then Trump says Iran will never charge a toll on ships in the straight. But Iran has already set up this new company to eventually charge insurance for ships passing through the straight. And then I saw this announcement today from the Iranians and Oman, where they announced they're discussing costs for the services they provide. So again,

it sure sounds like they're setting up a toll there. Both sites sounded an optimistic note on the way out. Iran's foreign minister said, quote, "Pakestani and guitar remediation is delivered major progress to end the Lebanon war." And then this is a clip from J.D. Vance's couple of press emails. Let's watch. Yesterday was a very, very good day. We made a lot of good progress. We did exactly what we wanted to do. The final deal is the house. We set the foundation. We haven't

built the house, but we've laid a successful foundation to get to a good place for the American people. What we told the Iranians yesterday is when you guys engage in what us millennials might call trash talk, you can't expect the President of the United States not to respond and not to correct the record. This region has been a basket case for a very long time. I've spent a lot of time dealing with the Iranians over the last few months. Sometimes I find them extremely confusing as

negotiators. Okay, I love like I got a plotting, pedantic metaphor. What about my him to finding with trash talk? He's sort of like insulting the other party. But I don't know, Ben, consider me skeptical these guys are getting a nuclear deal done. I bet they're kind of, you know, punt this thing, you know, keep extending talks, keep shipping going, but what do you think?

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing because like our Iran knows a few things, right? So the first is,

I mean, a few months ago, you know, we made this comparison. But in the Suez crisis, right, when England and France and Israel went toward a stop Egypt from nationalizing the Suez, guess what ended up happening? On the back of that Egypt kept told in the Suez, they're still doing it today. Iran has shown that they can extract revenue from the straight-of-form moves. So they know that they can do that even if they don't get a nuclear deal, right? So even if they don't get a nuclear deal,

“they can try to find some money by saying, like, there's some new insurance premium you have to pay,”

and you have to pay to both Iran and Iran. So it feels like it's, you know, not just Iranians. And so again, they don't necessarily need some additional sanctions relief to find more revenue absent a nuclear deal. The second thing they know is how likely is it that given how calamitous and politically catastrophic this was for Trump? How likely is it that no matter what Lindsey Graham says, that Trump's going to go back to war with Iran in 60 days, right, for mid-term elections.

You didn't get a nuclear deal. Yeah. So I think it's quite possible, if not likely,

that Iran like pockets to $10 billion, maybe they get that $24 billion, maybe they get some

of the $300 billion investment fund that's going in there, which, who knows, maybe Jared and Whitkoff are getting it on the game for Iranian infrastructure, I don't know, just asking questions here. But they can still, yeah, they can still get tons of money in control of the straight-of-form moves without making any nuclear concessions. And they also know the J.D. Vance, you know, they don't like it when Trump threatens to destroy their country because he would. And they don't

like when he threatens to kill the negotiators, because in the past they have bombed and killed people that were in the Iranian political system during negotiations. But they also know that J.D. Vance just wants to get through the next Fox and he wants out if you know, he wants to get back on his plane and go home. He wants to stop Tucker Carlson for running for president on his lane next time around. And so if J.D. Vance needs to do a Foxhead and talk about how they're

only buying American crops, like they're in the text says what it does. Like, all right, J.D. like, go lie and gaslight your own people because the Iranians are going to have that money anyway. So, the Iranians are, again, to use a Trump terminology, they're holding like all the fucking cards and J.D. Vance is just like spinning around in circles to be the one who rebuilds his cred with like Megan Kelley and Tucker Carlson. Yeah, I just, yeah, it's J.D. Vance was talking

about the stupid, like, forcing them to buy American wheat and corn deal. Like, it was some brilliant idea from, from Jared Kushner of all people. But you're, I mean, like, I just saw the delegations and it's like, on our side, it's these bumbling idiots who just want to make money and get back to their talks with the Russian oligarchs and not solve the war in Ukraine. And on their side, it's like incredibly experienced diplomats and nuclear experts who have literally nothing else

“and nothing better to do with their lives and they will grind them down into a pulp if that's what”

it takes. Yeah, it's the same, it's the same people of Osirah, the feminist, or like, negotiated for years with us, the last nuclear deal. Like, these, and they'll be, guess what, they'll also be there after Trump. They know that. Trump's gone in, like, two years. And, and Jared was Jared, like, remember, like, Scott Bessent turned out to be a soybean farmer. You really think that Jared Kushner wakes up every day worried about like selling wheat to somebody. No, Jared Kushner is probably

going into a ringing infrastructure. Yeah, he's focused on getting deals for the Saudis or

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pot say the world since you can get 50% off your first session. One big unresolved problem in the war remains Lebanon then. So on Friday 4 is really soldiers were killed when Hezbollah had an idea of tank. Israel retaliated killing at least 47 people, but Israeli Prime Minister BB Netanyahu continues to insist that Israel will not withdraw from the territory it is currently occupying in southern Lebanon and said quote, "Our fighters in southern Lebanon have full

freedom of action to thwart any direct or emerging threat to them or to the residents of the north." And that they will stay in Lebanon for as long as is necessary. Now, for what it's worth, CNN's reported that Israel is considering symbolic limited withdrawals from parts of the country. I assume to make Trump happy, but Netanyahu is getting hammered by his political opponents for this deal, especially with tapeting Lebanon. For example, Neftali Bennett said Netanyahu

is not telling the truth about the idea of freedom of action in southern Lebanon and that quote

“the truth is our boy's hands are tied and that quote, the enemy understands the limitations”

and exploits him for rapid reestablishment that will lead to harm to the lives of our soldiers. In other words, he's blamed. He's saying this deal is going to get idea of soldiers killed. Trump seems oddly surprised by all the pushback in his real Ben. Here's a quick clip of him getting asked about Lebanon in the Oval Office on Monday. He's really Prime Minister Benjamin then. Yeah, who said his forces are not leaving Lebanon.

That is a sticking. Who did he tell that to you? He said it publicly in Israel. Well, one thing I don't look at. Well, what would you do to make sure that he does? Well, I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to do, but it gets up. I'm a problem. So, I'll break it problem self real fast, including with BB. It's also been interesting to watch kind of like the increasingly aggressive pushback from the White

House on Netanyahu and on Israel. So, for example, here's some comments from J.D. Vance. I kind of make the point that you've seen people in their system, Ben Givier and Smotriot, Chew the tax, the deal. And I guess my response to them would be, what is your exact proposal?

every single national security problem that you have. Donald J. Trump is the only head of

“state in the entire world who is sympathetic to the nation of Israel at this moment in time.”

And he happens to be the head of state of the world's superpower. If I was in the cabinet of

the Israeli government, I might not be attacking the only powerful ally that I have anywhere left

in the entire world. Just can only imagine if Barack Obama said that what a pack would be saying, Ben Givier, we also heard that Trump suggests that Israel should let get out of Lebanon and let the Syrians take care of Hezbollah. That is an excellent recipe for brutal regional wars since the Syrians. Hate Hezbollah because they helped us out, massacred the opposition in the Syrians of a war, luckily President Amad al-Shara said no thanks to

that crazy idea. But, Ben, look, again, I'm very concerned that this is going to be the spoiler that blows up the peace talks. I'm hope I'm wrong, but it sure seems like that Yahoo has a pretty strong political incentive to blow up this deal and just kind of make these attacks

on him go away into the advance of the election. Yeah, no, Netanyahu needs a war. Without a war,

there's no justification for why he should be Prime Minister, be it in Iran, or Lebanon, or Gaza, or the West Bank, or what have you. Now, there's so much that is kind of fucked up about this.

“It's like, so first of all, like, are we not supposed to notice that Israel's occupying southern Lebanon?”

What is the legal basis in which they're just like claiming a huge chunk of Lebanese territory and hanging out? And also, like, it's really like, you know, because sometimes the way people talk about this, it acts like, well, Netanyahu, he's got a political problem because he needs to continue the war in Lebanon. Like, consider how profoundly messed up it is. What has gone wrong is really politics, that it's a problem if you're not like fighting a war and bombing people in Lebanon.

But like, what has gone wrong in our politics, that it's seen as logical that because four Israeli soldiers were killed, who are in Lebanon, that they kill 47 civilians in response. Like, the whole world sees this and how dark it is. And the degree of frustration in America, because they Americans know that Netanyahu talked Trump into this, is catching up to frankly where the whole world is, which is why on earth are we justifying and enabling and facilitating

an army and Israeli government to just kind of fight a forever war in Lebanon, because it's good for BBs politics. And then, you know, if Tali Bennett, one of his chief opponents, like, is just outflanking him to the right. And that's just how he'll appeal to. Yeah, this is just right. Yeah. This is dark. It is not normal. We should call it out. It's demonstrating that the problem in Israeli politics is not just BB-9 now, though. He's a big part of it. You know, so that's

messed up. The JD Vance is like, you know, pretty British comments here are indicative of where the politics are going in the Republican party very much. So we know where the politics are in the Democratic party. What constituency do people think exists for enabling this? And the last thing I'd say about the deal itself, we just talked about Iran's disincentives for making actual nuclear concessions. This is going to be a giant one, because Iran's going to be able to say,

if this is still going on, if Israel's stocky-bungs of Lebanon, well, wait a second. You guys didn't

implement your side of the deal. Why should we like get rid of our enrichment of nuclear materials when Israel's still in southern Lebanon? So it lets Iran off the hook, ironically. If Israel is viling the terms of the deal, because it gives the Iranians a basis for towing the straight-of-formers and not making nuclear concessions, because they can say, well, nobody's really keeping the terms of this thing. Yeah, this is a total mess. I don't have confidence in any of these

talks sticking, or these rarely stay on sides in southern Lebanon, but I don't know. I guess all we can do is knock on what it helps, because another closure, a prolonged closure of the straight-of-humus will lead to catastrophic economic consequences, and just impact people thousands of miles away, who might starve to death, and that's just the worst case scenario.

“Ben, let's turn to the UK, where you are currently. I think you're in London, right?”

Yes, so our friends... Yeah, I'm in London. By the way, events tonight Wednesday in London, at Intelligent Square, if people want to come see me. Nice. Yeah, come see Ben, a Brinkier-Stormer. He's got... With Coco-Con, with Coco-Con, also... Coco-Con is interviewing. Oh, so it'll be actually fun and funny. That's great. Exactly. No, I didn't mean it like that. I mean, like, she's absolutely... No, it's true. She's funnier than me.

No, she's funnier. She's funnier than your average book moderator is what I'm getting at. Because I say, saying that, having been one, usually they're not as like effortless in his Coco. So, our buddies across the pond, we're about to have their seventh prime minister in 10 years. On Monday, Prime Minister Kyrr-Stormer announced that he's going to resign.

I was told time and time again, that my party was finished. The way of a consign to history, that a majority at the general election, let alone a landslide majority, was impossible. But we prove those people wrong. The question my party is asking now is whether I am best placed to lead us into the next general election. I have heard the answer of my parliamentary party to that question.

Every decision I've taken has been about putting the country I love first. That is why I will resign as leader of the Labour Party. I shall spend more time

on the most important job. Being the best husband I can to my fantastic wife,

and being the best dad I can to my beautiful children who are my pride and my joy. So, Stormer's resignation came after his political rival Andy Burnham, "Decisively won his race for Parliament." This was that maker feel by election that we talked about previously. Burnham got 55% of the vote, while his opponent from the right wing reform UK party only got 33% or 35%. It's about 20 point victory. That huge margin convinced Labour MPs that Burnham was a better option

to lead them into the next election. Stormer initially promised to fight for his job, but that all changed after even members of his own cabinet said it was time to go. So, what happened and what comes next? I'm the what happened front. Analysts seem to agree on a few reasons why Stormer only made it through two years of a five-year term, after leading Labour to this landslide of victory, a landslide victory back in 2024.

So, there were a couple of smaller things. There were big controversy scandals like taking free gifts, and then there was a far bigger scandal of naming Jeffrey Epstein's buddy Peter and Manelson to be ambassador to the UK. There were some dumb policy decisions and then backtracking on some policy decisions

that made him look weak and indecisive. But the big things you hear is that Stormer just never

adequately laid out a vision for the job or a plan for what he wanted to do. And then even when

“he was successful, he was bad at communicating it, not just liking charisma, but I think unable”

to tell a bigger story about his vision and Labour leadership. And frankly, Ben, I think that that farewell speech, not to be unfair to the guy, but it was kind of an example of the kind of dry, like laundry list stuff we'd hear from him pretty often. So, in terms of what happens next, the Labour Party will have a leadership process. But it seems like former, you know, greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham will almost certainly win it and become the next Prime

Minister. Burnham's one big potential rival was guiding Westreading, Westreading had quit the Stormer Cabinet, but he's already bowed out and endorsed Andy Burnham. Stormer says he wants the process wrapped up by July 16th, but things could get done faster. Of course, Donald Trump had a humiliated Stormer on his way out the door by confirming Stormer's resignation before he had had a chance to do it himself, which is just wonderful, move, wonderful guy. So, Ben, again,

you're in the UK as we speak class act. Thoughts on the Stormer legacy and Burnham's future,

“and what's the reaction that didn't like there with the people you've talked to?”

Yeah, I was here doing British media all day and talking obviously to people who follow politics closely to. I mean, it's kind of anticlimactic, you know, nobody was surprised by the time this happened. I think as soon as Andy Burnham won and won with that result, it was clear. If people say, well, what's one by election to say about his ability to win a general election? I think that basic analysis was like, look, this guy's from Manchester, Northern England,

this is the kind of part of the country where labor has been losing a lot of support to reform another parties. And so, not only does he win that election decisively, but he also kind of comes from the region that they need to kind of win back. And so once he won with that margin, it was pretty clear. He was going to have the support. It was also the case that all the reporting here was that he'd already lined up, essentially a majority of labor MPs, so it's kind of

“game over for Stormer. Look, I think if you look at the legacy, I guess on the positive side,”

because you kind of feel somebody who won a general election, and then you kind of have to resign early. The positive legacy he sees won, like he kind of position labor to be in a place to win a general election and return to power. That matters a lot. There's a bunch of smaller things if people can point to changes he made in this or that policy. But that kind of leads to the negative. You pointed out, what was the big program? What was the big vision? What was both

the story he was telling about where Britain was going? And also, like, what were their kind of big agenda items? Like, what was his vision for the NHS, the National Health Service, or for restoring growth in the UK, or rebuilding a relationship with Europe after Brexit? He was playing

these kind of small ball items in policy, and then his communications was always kind of dry and

And he was always kind of reactive and he was always kind of on defense. And meanwhile, you've got

“like Nigel Farage, not a person as a problem communicating, like, you know, vaulting up. And I think”

people just tell me to side it's just too dangerous. Nobody kind of felt that Starmer was the best choice to kind of lead labor through the next couple of years and then into general election against, like, you know, huge threat to British democracy and reform. And so there's a unknown about, like, what Andy, I mean, the second thing we should say your Tommy is that it's not like it's particularly clear what Andy Burnham's vision is. No, not at all. He's, yeah, he's to Starmer's

left. He's a more charismatic politician. And so that's enough for some people, right? Like, he's just a better politician. And, you know, for the progressives, like, it seems like he'll be a little bit more where they are. I've we should add on the progressicide. A lot of frustration with Starmer's, you know, you know, pretty much aligned with Israel. Like, he didn't really break support on Israel's policy in Gaza. He's kind of prosecuted these people for free speech crimes,

just because they like speak up in defensive Palestine. So, you know, that didn't help him on the left

“either. So, look, I think you can feel bad for the guy and you can kind of say, like, you know,”

what, he seemed like he did his best. And he got labor back in power. But, you know, not exactly a big surprise here. Yeah. In some ways, you could argue that, like, the left in the labor party got a lot of what they wanted. Things like, you know, good things on workers' rights, stuff for trade union, stuff for renters, a higher minimum wage, some tax hikes, they have to get nationalized the trains. But, you're right. Like, yeah, they move slowly on Israel at best. But, ultimately, the polling,

it wasn't just that the polling show that voters wanted to go. I mean, there are the six and 10 Britons told you of that they thought it was the right thing for him to quit. But also, there was a poll recently that found that labor led by Kyrst armor would be that that reform would be eight points ahead of labor in the election. But with Andy Burnham leading labor reform would only be one point ahead. So, there was some polling that suggested labor would be better positioned with

Andy Burnham in charge. And then just like, results are results. You know, like, we can look at all the polls you want. But when you're Andy Burnham and you run and you kick the shit out of the reform candidate in the constituency like the one you described, I mean, that's going to wake a lot of people up. And just to add sort of like the pile on, you know, there's also people blame Kyrst armor for like listening to Morgan McSweeney, his advisor too much. He was sort of like primarily

“focused on with crushing the kind of core beneath the wing of the party. I think that people thought”

he seemed too dower and gloomy. I saw a great analysis piece where one MP described what happened to Starmer as the fate of the third plumber. So you have a leaking your house. Your toilet is broken. The first plumber shows up. It doesn't work. You're like, ah, that sucks. The second one comes. Then doesn't work. The third one can't get it done. And you want to kill that guy. That was kind of the meta. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've also heard to the analyst say, like, I don't know

the end. Maybe the UK is now ungovernable as they're going from a two party system to a five, maybe six party system. The biggest problem any Burnham is going to have is going to be growth. They've kind of had, you know, they've been stuck in the mud. The wheels have been spinning on economic growth. They have not really reckoned with Brexit. I think we just hit the 10-year anniversary of Brexit. Yeah. And we just haven't figured that shit out. And then you have a

totally unreliable Donald Trump reminding the world why we're no longer a good ally as the UK is at a

Brexit. And I think you know, Rory Stewart, who I know you talked to today is always talking about how,

you know, if you're looking forward for the UK economically, like they have no domestic AI industry. So what happens if the US just cuts off their access to all the anthropic models? Like, we just did the other day. So there's a lot of, a lot of ex-factors out there. A lot of challenges ahead. Yeah. I'm glad you, you know, brought up the Brexit. Because today is actually the 10th anniversary of Brexit. And I think the common thread here is that no British politician has been able to

articulate kind of what this country's future is after Brexit. I mean, the right could only articulate getting to Brexit. But not kind of what came next. A lot of the economic problems are because of Brexit. Like, they lost the market access to came with the EU. They're kind of a, they're an island, quite literally. And I think so for any Burnham, like the advice I'd give is number one, yes, you have these problems. Like, there's not a lot of money and it's hard to find

growth. But if you can give a vision, like a big vision about where the horizon is. Like, what

we're trying to get to? If you can instead of doing like a million little things, like pick two

or three bigger things that may not fix every problem, but give people a sense of progress in their lives. If you do more, you know, Starmer was very tentative of that kind of rebuilding relationship with Europe. And, you know, maybe you're not going to go all the way back in the EU right away. But like, you know, begin to negotiate more agreements to get closer to Europe that kind of indicates, hey, like, we kind of overreached on the Brexit thing. And the last thing I'd say, Tommy,

I'm picking fights with Trump because you know what, Trump's going to be an asshole anyway. Kira Starmer was really nice to him. He gave him, like, the world carriage ride when he came to town. Like, I actually think Brits need a little confidence here. You know, they need a little, like, Hugh Grant and love actually, you know, like, like, they, they, they, they, I mean, maybe not the best analogy

“there. But, but you know what I mean? Like, yeah, there's, there's a lack of confidence here, right?”

And, and they want, if you, strong visionary leadership in storytelling about what this country is in where it's going, I say, this country is I'm sitting here. I think would maybe buy you a little time with voters. I think politics is pretty basic. And it's like, strong, weak, tough kind of

soft. And I think, you know, Kira Starmer just never looked, he looked weak in the face of Trump.

And I think you got to figure out a way to fight back and do it a little more assertively. Just so you don't look like you're getting walked on. Pot to the world is brought to you by him's. ED is way more common than most guys think. Millions of guys deal with it at some point. And that's exactly why him's offers a straightforward way to handle it. Him's connects you with the licensed healthcare provider online,

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Let's switch gears, turn to Africa, and talk about the relatively new relationship between Israel and a place called Somalia Land. So for context Somalia Land, this is a break away self-declared state in the Horn of Africa. It declared independence from the rest of Somalia in 1991 after a long and brutal civil war. Now, if you look at a map, you'll see Somalia is kind of shaped like the head of an arrow pointing northeast on the map. The territory running

along the Indian Ocean is Somalia, and there's a little chunk of the top, along the Gulf of Aiden, that neighbors Chibudi, that is Somalia Land. Somalia Land used to be a British colony, but it gained independence in 1960 and united with Somalia. But now they want to basically undo that decision to become an independent state. But one of their challenges has been that no other countries would recognize them until recently. In December of 2025, Israeli Prime

Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu announced that Israel and Somalia Land had established diplomatic relations. In March of this year, Bloomberg reported that Israel was trying to build a military base in Somalia Land. And then more recently, there have been reports that Israel had already deployed a small number of troops to Somalia Land. Israel, Katzzi, Israeli Defense Minister, said the other day that the two countries had been secretly coordinating four years. So listeners

might be wondering why? Why would Israel, of all, countries support a breakaway state seeking independence that seems like a bad precedent for them with the Palestinian Authority and Gaza, et cetera, right? The primary reason is the Houthi rebels. So we've talked about the Houthi's bunch. The Houthi's are the Seranian backed political and military organization and Yemen that has been designated as a foreign terrorist organization by the United States. The Houthi's

have fired missiles at ships in the Red Sea and protests of the Warren Gaza. They've also fired lots of missiles at Israel itself. And so a permanent base in Somalia Land would give Israel, surveillance and military capabilities that are much closer to Yemen itself. It would let them track Houthi movements and missile launches and whatever else the Houthi's and the Iranians are doing in the Gulf of Aden. There's also been reports of a much darker rationale, which is that Somalia

campaign. The other country's named in the reporting. I think it was an AP story about this was Sudan in Somalia. So a bunch of very safe places with lots of economic opportunity for the Gaza Islands who would be displaced here. For what it's worth, there are reasonable arguments on the merits for why Somalia Land should be its own state. They've been peacefully self-governing for over 30 years. They've had elections. They have a currency. They've executed peaceful transfers of

power. Meanwhile, Somalia is a disaster. It's a bastion for terrorist groups like Al-Shabab. But a big argument against recognition is that the African Union does not recognize Somalia Land nor do any other African countries because they don't want to see a wave of breakaway independence movements like that. So the Trump administration was talking about this possible

“repetition during the transition. I think that Ben was more about hedging their bets in Djibouti,”

which is the home to the only permanent U.S. military base in Africa in several thousand

U.S. personnel and a whole bunch of drones. But Djibouti, the problem in Djibouti, is they basically

sell base access to any country that can afford it. So you've got this cluster of bases packed into its entire area, which means the U.S. base is two miles from the Chinese base, literally. And I think the Pentagon's probably worried about a Niger situation where a coup or a political change means suddenly you're kicked out of the country and no access. So Ben, sorry for the long wind up there. But what do you think the logic of this move is for Israel, their real motivation,

like why they're going so public with it now? And what are some of the downside risk do you think? Well, look, it's pretty obvious that Israel is doing this for strategic reasons. I mean, do we really think that in Israeli foreign policy, they looked at the entire world in the data side that there's kind of a moral cause for them to recognize someone? It is clearly strategically placed, as you said, near the Houthis, which is a concern of Israel's,

it's a potential venue for Israeli military intelligence operations, not just against the Houthis, but kind of in the Gulf region generally. And I just think that's a shitty reason.

To go ahead and, you know, be the first country to establish the democratic relations.

Like, there's not like a, you know, I'm sure the talking points are about their self-government,

“but does anybody truly believe, again, that's what, you know, motivates us to do this, right?”

And so that leads to the risk. Because the risk is you're not only kind of destabilizing, you know, this region in some ways, because the other countries don't want it. But what are we now saying, that like any little breakaway province that has like a grievance in there are many, not just in Africa, but in other places, but like we've just talked about Africa, that essentially if they, you know, offer their territory to some power, be it Israel or somebody else

for a military base, like suddenly they can get diplomatic recognition. It's just another sign that we're in like an age in which everything is just, you know, transactional, there are no rules, there's no processes, institutions like the African Union and the United Nations kind of don't matter. It's an end round around all that. And so I think that's your risk, right? You're encouraging separatism, you're, you're encouraging like the sale of, you know, sovereignty for military-based

purposes. And yes, you know, potentially maybe you're creating a venue for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. So it doesn't, you know, it doesn't smell right even if you could find cause to have some sympathy to some all you have. Yeah, and even sort of like the director of

“Horn of Africa region, I mean, I think Ethiopia came closest to recognizing Somalia land,”

but then they backed away because all our neighbors were not happy about it, but I think they've cut a deal to get poor access in Somalia land. The poor is actually operated by the Emirates weirdly, but that pissed off the Egyptians who have a dispute with Ethiopia over water rights in access because they're both dependent on the Nile River and the Ethiopians. But I thought jumping into that word. Yeah, right. That, that, that, that, that word. It's all gone out. Yeah. Um, so then

Egypt cut a deal with the Somalia. So yeah, it's just sort of like exacerbating regional tensions. I'm sure this won't help. Yeah. Interesting story, though, and one we'll keep watching. Uh, speaking of which another interesting election that we covered earlier this month was Colombia's election. Uh, there were the first round results in May. That sent led to a runoff with a progressive candidate, uh, Ivan Cepeta and the right wing candidate, uh, Abelardo de la spraya, uh, also known

as the tiger. So that runoff ended this past weekend. The results are now in. So the tiger, the right

wing candidate, he narrowly won. Uh, the Guardian reported he got 12.96 million votes, which

is about 90. I was like 49.66% of the vote compared to Cepeta's 48.7% of the vote. It's worth noting that the margin this time was even smaller than in the first round. Uh, Dale Esbraia will take over with a minority in Congress in a very divided country. Um, just for Fundy's ban, here's Trump commenting on the election. And of course, making it all about himself. It's watch. Oh, El Nibraia. Oh, and I don't think we know that you have. I endorse him. He was in 10 to

place. I endorse a video on the election. Yeah, I don't know. Yes, you have no different than this

endorsement. He won the election. It wasn't. He wasn't anticipated to win. But he won anyone handily. It's just an honor. He was just a, a, a, a, a, a, a good man. I'd watch him a little bit

to speak and he always speak. You know, when people like me, I like them. It's very simple. It's a very

simple formula. And I like him. He said really nice things about me and the job we've done in the United States and very, very powerful. And he won an election in Columbia that I don't know. Some people would surprise who simple formula. And then, again, just for fun, here's Dale S. Brie as workout routine that he posted on Instagram. Not to be a total bro. But if you're going to call yourself the tiger and wear gloves in your home gym, you got to be putting up more than like 30s when you're doing bench. Ben, it seems like we're

going to see a return to a militarized war on drugs, more coordination with the US, probably with Pete Higgs-Ath and, you know, just the US military bombing suspected drug traffickers will probably see the construction of mega, mega prisons like El Salvador did. There's all these lawsuits against the press from the tiger. What do you think about these results and kind of what it says about

“the future of the US relationship with Columbia and sort of Columbia's role in the region?”

I don't feel good about it. I mean, first of all, we should say, this is not about Trump. I mean, it's not like they're voting for Trump. I think if one of the things it is clear is in Columbia as we've seen in other countries, Ecuador, you know, El Salvador previously, they're real concerns about security. You know, there's sense of integrity. It's it's too violent and people are just kind of looking for something that feels a little more secure in that

manner. And also, you know, there's a natural, there's a left-right swing that tends to happen in Columbia. I think the things that concern me are, like, first of all, the closest of this result in Petro, the outgoing president kind of alleged voter fraud and it's the US military all of basically rigging votes. US and Israel, the election interference without any, we should say, without any evidence really. But look, like, I don't think the tiger, like, people should know,

this guy is not just a normal, like, right-wing politician. Like, he is promised to build, like, mega-prisons in the jungle, you know, like, like, we're looking at an El Salvador, who knows, what may be deporting people down there from, you know, the United States and we may be locking up people on mass like they did in El Salvador. That's not good. And this kind of validation of a right-wing shift in Latin America is alarming because we've already seen in Buckele a guy change the constitution

to keep himself in power, you know, and who knows where, you know, how many of these right-wing leaders end up being democratic in the long run. And so again, I truly don't, this is not just kind of

“because I don't like Trump. I don't think this is because of Trump. I think there's other factors”

behind this. But the reality is, these guys are going to be a block, they are going to work with

Trump. They are going to work with either the US military or Eric Prince's security contracting type outfits to do things that probably, you know, calling the question, let's just say that the human rights is probably not going to be top of mind for these guys. I think another election, this makes the Brazil election, which is later this year, that much, yeah, important. Because if Lula, the incumbent president loses and the right-wing takes over in Brazil too. Man, it's going to be

only down there for center-left and progressive and socialist politicians. So, you know, yeah, there's watching, but I don't feel great about the result. Brazil's election's coming up in October, right now. We got Mexico, Brazil, Uruguay, and Guatemala with left-wing governments in the reach and the rest are shifting to the right. Yeah, the tiger seems like a charming guy on an political talk show. He told a female journalist to look at the picture of him in sweatpants to

understand why so many women are voting for him. So, that's cool. But yeah, wonderful, wonderful folks that Trump is endorsing. Finally, Ben, I am fully addicted to watching the World Cup.

“I do the England game is on, I think, probably as we speak, I might be right now, yeah.”

You're playing right now. Yeah, the guy screaming in the streets. I'm already sad about it ending. I'd love to talk about it with you for a minute. First of all, the US team is

awesome. The Paraguay game was incredible. Got to go to that. It was the best experience ever.

And then we looked awesome in the first half against Australia. We're not going to talk about the second half, because, you know, whatever we want. Then there's like the underdog stories. Cape Verde, cup of Verde. Yes. That's been incredible. It's a tiny island nation. It's like 350 miles off the Western coast of Africa. It's a half a million people. One of the smallest

the best teams in the entire tournament. Then they battled Uruguay to a draw this past Sunday. Check out this BBC clip. These guys went live. Right. It is Cape Verde scored their first goal.

“Check this out. What's your prize out of the way the Cavendon team has been playing so fast?”

I personally have been so far. A couple of others have been playing great. It's been matching Uruguay's pressure. I love that so much. I love those four-year-old goalie who shut out Spain and then went from 50,000

to 15 million Instagram followers. Yeah. There was a player who got recruited via LinkedIn DM.

And he literally thought it was spam from the coach. I don't know. What else you, what other sort of like actual playing and game narratives are you enjoying before we get to the kind of fan video stuff that's so much fun? I do like the fact that there's this combination which you want in every World Cup of some of the good teams are just playing extraordinary soccer football. Right.

“I mean, to watch Leonardo Messi score five goals in the back two games is unbelievable.”

Argentina. And Bob base playing. Yeah. And Bob base playing like lights out. France looks great. The US obviously looks like it's knocking on the door of not maybe the first tier but like right there. Right. And so there's just some excellent soccer being played football being played. But then yeah, these underdog stories to see Cape Verde, to see even the Iranians like the save that that Iranian goalie made. Did you see this Tommy? Yeah. To kind of preserve a draw.

That was like nuts. I saw that the Congo, the Democratic Republic of Congo, draw Portugal, which is you know winning handily today in the same way the cross. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The African soccer teams are overperforming. We'll see how Ghana does again sing when today. And I just kind of love all of those underdog stories. Again, in addition to the US, another host Mexico looks pretty good too. So it's good like good to see like the host countries in

Canada win, which they I don't think they had done before. So so that's good. So it's you can't I love if it's just the favorites overperforming. That's kind of boring. I love this combination of like there's some good teams playing really well. And then there's some people coming out of nowhere. And then these host countries doing well. Like it's a great mix of different storylines. Yeah, it really is. It'd be chorus out. It was not the one who played Uruguay to a draw.

It's like love like the scenes of the communities watching back home. Like the Jordanians are

watching games in this like 5,000 year old. Like a Roman era theater. It's incredible.

I don't know if you saw the Iranians, the note they left. They left a note in the locker room in LA. They said we came to Los Angeles with pride, competed with honor and lead with dignity. Thank you Los Angeles for your hospitality. And thank you to every Iranian who gave their heart voice and soul for Iran throughout these 180 minutes. May peace, respect and friendship prevail among all nations. Really nice note. Also probably not without political risk for them.

“When they get home, you can imagine some IRGC-goon being like, why do you do that? What did that mean?”

Egypt got its first win. Their star player, Mosala, was just like drinking in the streets with random people. I think up in Canada. So that was awesome. But Ben, I think what is, you know, captured all of our hearts, especially in the Padsay of the world's slack, are the videos of fans losing their minds. And I could watch this all day. I could literally all day. I will retweet anything you send me. I'm a sucker for all of it. And then it's like the culture is blending all

across North America, like you said. Here's a little video compilation that we're going to watch. And then I'll just quickly tick through what we saw and we can talk about it. And here they are ready for today's game against the Ranger. Just moments ago, they marched from Ballon Chain. They're about Little Havana to take over Longday Boat Park for today's match. [Music]

All right. So for those of you listening, not watching, first of all, subscribe to Padsay of the

world on YouTube. But also, we had a bunch of Norway fans rowing in Times Square. They were rowing everywhere. We had a CBS report about the tartan army. Those are Scotland fans. They were

were like genuinely sad to see them go Ben. I don't know if you saw the open letter in the

Boston Globe. I saw everything. The mayor was commenting on it. Like people were like sad that they were leaving. There was one dude who just refused to leave. He said, "No, I'm going to stay here for longer." English fans were singing sweet Carolina, rodeo in Texas. There's a Scottish guy in a kilt playing the bagpipes while rollerblading in Miami. That's awesome. There was Becky fans riding to the stadium and Houston on horseback in Full Garb. And then again, the Scotland fans

singing and chanting on a flight from Boston to Miami. Ben is the world cup of the greatest soft power tool in the history of diplomacy. Yeah, but it's a soft power tool for everybody. For humanity. For humanity. For humanity. I mean, I'm still a sucker, by the way, for the

“Lawrence Kansas and Brace of the Algerian team. I think Tommy, that I, my next New York sportsman”

hard has been melted by the Boston Targaryen Bromans. And I want to suggest that the Red Sox,

like play a baseball game in Scotland. Oh, absolutely. We have to keep this, yeah. We have to keep this going because I'm so mad that there's not to be more content of like scots like drinking with everybody in Boston and like befriending guys with Airbnb's and I know marching around the bagpipes. Right. If Bostonians go to Scotland, we're going to bitch about the Wi-Fi speeds and the plugs being different. You know, I mean, yeah. My, my own modern race university, like there

was like 15,000 Dutch fans or something like that in orange, like marching off the campus. Like I said something totally bonkers like that. I got videos of like Congolese making out with Mexicans. Like, like, it's just wonderful. Like, like, I can't say enough how much like you just see the best in every country in the way in which they root or the way in which they connect across cultures and host nations. It's, it's, I have nothing bad to say about anybody which is like,

you know, like the way you would like the world to be. Yeah. Apparently one of the commentators on the England Ghana broadcast said as we know the English historically struggle and Massachusetts. Great line. That's a great line from a clever dude. Yeah. I love every minute of this. I want it

to never end. I'm going to watch all the games and maybe, you know, as when which when we wrap this,

maybe we can catch the end of the English games, we'll go to that. All right. That's the end for Ben and I as portion the show. But do not miss Ben's interview with Ron Ayub about some really

“important political dynamics happening right now in India. So stick around for that after the break.”

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a week, I, Jane Coston, bring you the need to know news and expert analysis on the big stories shaping today in tomorrow. Stories like how social media works our perception of the world and these strange reality of who is signing up to work for ice. All in less time that it takes to roast a chicken. And now what-a-day episodes will be hitting your YouTube and podcast feeds in the afternoons. You'll get the breaking news even faster. Check out what-a-day. Now dropping

in the PM on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. I am very pleased to be joined. Once again on positive world, it's been too long. Rana Ayab is an Indian journalist and author. She's an opinion columnist for the Washington Post. She's an author of the classic book, "Google Drop Files" and I'm going to be able to cover up. She's on sub-stack. I've already should check her sub-secout. Rana, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you so much Ben. We haven't talked in a bit.

I mean, last time we talked was after the general elections in India when Narendra Modi and his BJP party won once again. Since then, a lot of things have happened. We've had further elections in India recently. We've had this war and Iran. And we also have the Cockroach movement that has

with it about that movement, how it started, what it's about and what it's becoming.

“Well, Ben, a lot has happened since Modi's last general election. He won the regional election in India.”

Of course, now elections in India no longer a level playing field, which is probably it's, you know, Modi's government in Modi's, Modi has used Central Agency to literally co-op almost every political opposition in this country. But the Cockroach under party has come in from space of Void. In the sense that, so it started with the Chief Justice of India, he made an off-the-cuff remark in the court about the unemployed youth in India. He compared them to cockroaches. He said they are

like cockroaches, festering everywhere and, you know, they're filing, they're becoming activists, they're filing applications in court, they're wasting the time of the court. So there is already resentment in this country by a huge section of the of people who are dealing with poverty and unemployment. Instead of taking that as a slur, they turned it into a satire. You know, so they started, it started as an Instagram page saying, we the cockroaches, the cockroach under party. And it said

that we are a bunch of lazy people and our, you know, it was just more like a satire like, you know,

we are the cockroaches, everybody was, but always shocking is, and probably it was, you know,

it reflected about, it, it, it, it was reflection about the disenchanted Indian Indian youth is facing right now with the government that within about seven days there were 22 million followers in Instagram right much more than in the Modi or the ruling party of India or the opposition party of India. It was, it was organic. None of these people came from a political, you know, back room or, or an organized political party. It was, it's kind of as an internet movement,

it was very, very organic. And before we knew it was the talk of the town, these people suddenly had an agenda, five point agenda about clearing up the education system, clearing up corruption in India, clearing up, you know, position, I mean the hierarchy in India. And Modi, I mean Modi does not love activism as a bad word for him, you know, every time there's a students movement,

he always calls it a sorrows, bad movement. And they were quick to jump on this,

they immediately banned the Twitter account, the Instagram account, citing national security, saying that the cockroach under party was fronted by elements from across the border. In fact, BJP leaders, Modi's BJP, their leaders said there are a lot of their followers are from Pakistan. So the, the cockroach in the party also showed list, showed it's list of followers which are all Indian. So I feel the cockroach in the party and the meme of the cockroach has resonated quite a bit

with the average Indian, which has been feeling let down and unseen. And with this movement, it is trying to be seen by India and by the elite in India, by the political powers,

“and I think it has made a splash in the Indian political movement and rightly so the Indian,”

the BJP is worried about it and its existence. Yeah, I mean obviously India is a massively different scale, but, you know, we've been following over the last couple of years, these movements in Nepal and Bangladesh that have rocked in toppled governments actually, and I don't think that's necessarily going to happen in India, but that's right in the neighborhood. And I'm curious how you think about what is similar between this movement and the movements we've seen in South Asia. And obviously

what is different in the sense that, you know, this is probably not going to result in the kind of overturning of governance like we sell in those countries, but, but where do you think it might lead going forward? So when the cockroach John the party gained popularity on social media and everybody thought this was our Gen Z photos that changed government in Nepal and in Bangladesh and in Sri Lanka, everybody thought this was our moment where the Gen Z takes over. And many of the

followers do believe that it is our their moment at the Sun, the Gen Z is trying to assert itself, but when the leaders of the cockroach John the party were posed this question, they said, they were far too mature to indulge in any arson or any activity that aims to kind of disturb the atmosphere of peace in the country. So they were trying to be very, very careful to not position themselves as and compare themselves to the outfits and Pakistan and other countries in South Asia,

because they knew that they knew that any such statement would be used by the government of India

“to quell the protest and to silence them, because I think the moment when something like this”

happened in Pakistan and Sri Lanka and Nepal, I think the first thing that the Indian establishment

become a bad word. So I think the cockroach and the party has has been playing it very, very,

it's been working a delicate try to try hard to not compare itself with the movement in South Asia

“and the second thing is I think right now this movement is largely on social media when they”

right now they're protesting on the streets, but the numbers, I mean of course it's the Indian summer or peak Indian summer, but still the numbers are not quite surging as much as one expected it to see. It has made us plash, but it does not have the same intensity of the protest in South Asia. Having said that it's just the beginning, right? It is it is not a political movement, it does not have the finances to sustain something like this, it is right now battling

a government and also battling for its own survival right now because the government is trying to ban its very existence. So right now I think it's a very slow process where the popularity has come down to an extent where people are like what exactly will they achieve. It has shown problems, but people are being very careful because Koko Janta Party has not taken ideological position yet. So a lot of that critiques especially in the left liberal circles are expecting

it to take a position on the majoritarianism of the Modi government. As opposed to the Koko Janta

“Party saying we are going to restrict ourselves with this education and unemployment. So I think”

there is a certain opposition to the CJPE as it's called, but I think it will reveal itself in months and do the next year in the election. Yeah, I want to come back to the opposition, but I want to talk about Nurendra Modi in his foreign policy and how it's playing at home. In their two leaders I'm asking about, let's start with Trump. So Modi really embraced Trump

in his first term and kind of endorsed him when he ran for reelection was clearly selling that

these are like-minded kind of nationalist, strongman types. Just watching from afar, a lot of things Donald Trump has done have hurt India since he came back in the power. We saw tariffs put on India. We saw Trump embrace Pakistan, basically siding almost with Pakistan when there was the conflict, bragging about ending the war and demanding the Modi nominating for a noble peace prize. We saw the war and Iran, obviously, part of Trump's signature foreign policy effort

has had a really crippling effect on India and it could have given the amount of energy that it

“gets through the straight-to-four moves. Is there any political blowback that Modi's face?”

You put all these chips on Trump and it feels like the second Trump term has been-not only

not good for Modi but kind of embarrassing a time ceremony. How do people in India look at that? It is extremely embarrassing because the same Modi fanboys who were like worshiping Trump and creating these statues of Trump are suddenly, you know, abusing him in India and they don't know how to reconcile this too. That Modi put Trump in a pedestal. He was his best friend. He can't paint for Trump in the US and did a huge rally for Trump in India and now Trump is somehow, you

know he has this bipolar relationship with Modi and some days he's going to come and turn Modi's complexion and his personality and all days he's going to call India a country of, you know, using racist slurs against India. I think where India is concerned, I think it has revealed India's absolutely bizarre foreign policy because we do not seem to have a foreign policy and I think Trump has really exposed the route within. When the US and Israel were raised to war on Iran,

Prime Minister Modi was in Israel. He was on a 3-day trip with BBC Netanyahu and they were both posing for pictures and they were doing these hugs and whether Netanyahu told him about the war, the impending war or did not in both the situations. Modi looked, I mean, it was a, he lost face because you are visiting Israel and suddenly the next day Israel bombs Iran and then India, which has been a longstanding ally of Iran, does not stay a single statement condemning the model

of Ayatilah Hamani and then of course, you know, when the US torpedoed the ship, I was Dana, there was not a single statement from the Indian Prime Minister or even at the killing of the three naval officers by, by, and I should just add for people, this is a ship that had been in India invited by the Indian government for, you know, kind of the, the invitation of many different countries for kind of military demonstrations and it gets sunk and all the people on board get killed,

and, you know, India's foreign minister, Jashankar or India's Prime Minister, I mean, that ship was

“India's guest and it is left in India and there's killed Indians in Pakistanis and Sri Lankans”

and it cannot bring yourself to condemn that action. You cannot bring yourself to condemn the action in which US attacks an Indian naval ship, which killed three Indians and, you know, in this meeting recently at the G7 when Modi and Trump were sitting and, and Trump was congratulating Modi personally and said he's only going to have good relationship with India as long as Modi is the Prime Minister and it felt like it was Modi's own image control as opposed to being,

as opposed to being, as opposed to negotiating with Trump as a country, it felt like it was more image-building for Modi. So, Modi's foreign policy's mostly optics. Trump has berated India

saying that he was the one who got a ceasefire between India and Pakistan through the world

last year and not once Indians Indian foreign office has said of the record that Trump did not broker the steel but Trump keeps on repeating this in every single press conference asking for in the bell piece price. But till today, Modi has not said a word about this, Modi has not issued a statement. So, I feel like, and then, you know, then you see him posing for a picture of a Georgia maloney with a chocolate calling it chocolate diplomacy. I mean, I'm, I'm no fan of

Georgia maloney but when Trump said something about her begging for a selfie, at least you put out a statement saying, you know what, neither does she nor it leave back for a selfie, where is India self-respect, right? So, I feel like Indians are feeling the pinch, a big section section of the Indian community and foreign policy officials are also feeling that if you do not stand for anything, right? If you are the democratic counterweight to China, if you believe you are, you know, the

“world's largest democracy, you need to stand for something and if you do not stand for anything”

then you will not, you will lose all the respect that you believe the world should record to you. Modi calls himself the Vishviguru, the global leader, but where is this condemnation of what's happening to you and what's happening with in Palestine? There's not been a single strong statement and and then you have us in Munir, the Field Marshal of Pakistan and the Pakistani Prime Minister,

now, you know, which were always, you know, India always said that it had isolated Pakistan,

you know, in the world, I don't think this looks like isolation at all. In fact, it feels like he has given Pakistan a new lease of life. Trump has given Pakistan a new lease of life, but has given it a new newfound legitimacy. So, I feel like India stands as a big loser where foreign policy is concerned. Yeah, I've never seen actually Pakistan given the spotlight that Trump has put on it in this war. You already anticipated the second thing I was going to ask you about was

that trip to Israel with Prime Minister Nanya on this kind of full embrace of Israel before the war. But I do want to ask one more question about the war, which is I do want to just describe, we've talked a bit about the shortages in India. You know, it's running low on fuel. We've seen reports about Indians having to ration, cooking oil, about businesses and restaurants having to shut down.

“Price is going up. What is the effect? Do ordinary Indians feel the pinch of this war?”

Or is this just something that shows up more in kind of economic metrics? I think that this has been a huge economic repercussion. Prime Minister Modi has asked Indians to stop buying gold, stopped traveling abroad, to start working from home, stop flying, stopped using air transport, you know, carpool, stop using their public transports. I feel like we are feeling the pinch. The price of domestic fuel hasn't increased.

The price of petrol, CNG diesel hasn't increased in India. And those who are feeling the pinch are the ones who are economically in the lowest threat. So I feel like there is a great deal of resentment thanks to the war, which is why Modi's popularity. It's a 12th year in power. And I feel like for this very reason, Modi's popularity is not the same as it was say last year. So the war on Iran has had repercussions. And which is why Modi is trying to do a lot of this

internal stuff like stirring up anti-Muslim, you know, sentiments in the country to kind of divert the attention from the real problem, which is a fuel crisis in India. Right now, small restaurants are shutting down, you know, small business owners are shutting down their business because they cannot afford it. People are not taking the flights. The airline businesses says that one of the biggest airlines in India said that it plans to shut down if Modi government does not

take enough steps. So I feel like we have had real repercussions of the war. And instead of giving us a solution or trying to kind of play a role in adding the fears of this of the country,

And I think that has angered a big section of the people, which is why something like a

“cockroach in the party, which has happened at just the right moment has become has become, has got”

the popularity that it did because it's not happening in a void. It is happening at a time when there is rising unemployment when the world Iran has led to consequences in India, where people are losing their jobs, where poverty levels are increasing every day, where people in India are

cannot get by. So I feel like I'll first like the cockroach in the party at a result of this

for a big reason the war on Iran and the crisis that is happening in this creative almost. So, Rana, that it's so helpful to help extend what's going on in the cockroach movement in Indian foreign policy, Modi standing. Just to end here, what should we be looking for in terms of

“where the political opposition goes in the months ahead? How should we be thinking about things?”

Because obviously Modi is still very entrenched in power. What are the signs that this might lead to actual more strong opposition, or maybe Modi can recover as he has done multiple times?

Well, at this point of time, the Indian opposition is exactly the same where it was a couple of

months ago because they have had recent local elections for which Trump also congratulated Modi, even which Modi had a sweeping victory. But that election happened in a atmosphere where it was not a level playing field. Modi has post all the opposition leaders on his side, where he has used central agencies to kind of level charges and level cases and get them on their side. The election system has not been the same. A lot of voters have been disenfranchised in India.

So yes, a cockroach in the party can make a difference. But when you have a country of

1.4 billion people and you still have big players like the Congress party and other regional

parties who are being systematically decimated using central agencies and using the election

“commission of India. It seems to be compromised. I think Modi can even look for a third term in”

power because things are very muscular and favour of Modi right now. But one can have some. I would really wait and watch what the cockroach in the party is capable of because the resentment of the ground also is real. Modi can be over there and kind of snatch away the powers of the opposition party. But he will really have a deal with the resentment on the ground. So one has to wait and watch what happens with the cockroach on the party right now. No, that's a great point. I mean, you know,

he can tighten his grip. But actually that might make the bottom-up opposition, you know, that much more tense as we've seen in neighboring countries. I will lot, Ron, thanks so much for joining us. Everybody should follow you, everybody. I do on social media, on sub-stack, on your Washington Post, you're such a clear voice on all these issues. So thanks for helping us understand what's been going on. Thank you so much, Ben. Pleasure Solveys. Thanks, Ron. I hope you're doing the show.

Thanks to you, Ben, for dialing in from was pretty late over there in London. And see you in person next week. Pots of the world is a good media production. Our show is produced by Alonan Minkowski, Michael Bullt Smith, Indonesia Bonnergy. Our team includes Matt DeGrope, Ben Hethcote, Jordan Canter, Kenny Muffet, David Tolls, and Ryan Young. Her staff is proud of the unionized with the writer's guild of America East. The what-a-day podcast you know and love is shaking things up.

You already know the five days a week. I, Jane Coston, bring you the need to know news and expert analysis on the big stories shaping today in tomorrow. Stories like how social media works our perception of the world and the strange reality of who is signing up to work for ice. All in less time that it takes to roast a chicken. And now, what-a-day episodes will be hitting your YouTube and podcast feeds in the afternoons. You'll get the breaking news even faster.

Check out what-a-day. Now dropping in the PM on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast.