First Time Founders: How Partiful Is Fixing the Loneliness Crisis

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Welcome to First Time Founders. I'm Ed Nelson. Young people are spending four less time together

in real life. In fact, face-to-face socializing among teens has dropped 50% since 2003. That trend sparked an idea for my next guest who set out to build a product to change that and by many metrics it is succeeding. Back in 2020, she launched a startup with a simple goal. Make it easier for people to gather offline, just as a global pandemic forced everyone apart. But against the odds the company survived and has since become a go-to event platform

for young people. Now, with millions of users across more than a hundred countries, it is redefining how a generation makes plans and shows up in person. This is my conversation with Shreya Murthy,

CEO and co-founder of Partiful. Shreya Murthy, thank you for joining me on First Time Founders.

“Thank you so much. It's great to be here. I think every young person listening to this podcast”

probably knows what part of this. I use it all the time. All of my friends use it all the time. Anytime we are getting people together for dinner party or any kind of event, we are using possible. But I'm sure there are a lot of other people who maybe don't know what partful is. What is it? Partiful is the easiest way to get together in real life. It is a platform available on app and web where you can plan any kind of event, invite friends, figure out who's

going and communicate seamlessly with guests. And so, at its core, it's a social utility. But what it's become is a cultural phenomenon which is just so cool for our very small team. So more about how it's become a cultural phenomenon. I agree with you. I didn't know what it was until maybe two or three years ago and now I feel like young people are using it pretty much every weekend. How to explode into this cultural phenomenon. Do you watch the pit? I don't. Okay. In the

“episode last night, the name drop part of all. Yeah. And when there what is the pit?”

It's a TV show on HBO about people in NER and it follows them over the course of time. I have heard this. Got it. Okay. And one of the nurses says I'll wait to get the part of all. And so I think that to me is one just crazy where named drop down in HBO show. Yeah. But also the fact that everyone's using part of all as a noun. You don't send an invite. You send a part of all. And there's very few consumer products that get to that point of being a noun or a verb. If I'm

going somewhere, I'm ubering. If I get a cut on my finger, I use a band aid. And I think for us to see particle reach that stage, even though in many ways we're still early on our journey, is a testament to the fact that it's possible to build a product that doesn't just provide real value to people's lives. But is tapped into how people feel and how people want to feel. And that was very intentional when we were building particle is to think about the

environment, the vibes that the product is creating and how we can elevate those. Talk more about those vibes because when you think about what this app is, it's not that much

a message to your friends on eye message or a Facebook messenger or maybe you do it, you know, start a DM group chat on Instagram. I mean, technically speaking, functionally speaking, it's not doing all that much and yet it has become this worldwide phenomenon. So what is the reason for that? Is that the vibes, as you say? I would actually disagree that it's not doing that much. Back when we were texting everyone to plan a party, like that was terrible. You were

in a noisy group chat. I think group chats max out at like 30 people. It's different on each messaging platform. But there's a limit to how many people you can even have in a group chat. So if you're planning a big event during a big party, you literally can't use that. When you invite people in a group chat, everyone's dropped into a group chat with a bunch of strangers. It's noisy.

There's information that's not relevant to you. And it's really hard to parse the most important

details for both the host and the guest, which is like, when is it? Who's going to be there and what are all the logistical pieces of information I need to know? And so when we were building part of all, we were in the dark ages of group chats for planning parties. And the distribution

“of parties is almost, is often broader than what's in a group chat. What happens if you want to”

invite someone that you're in touch with on Instagram or X or wherever it is. Like all of a sudden, you have these fragmented social connections. And with something as important as figuring out your headcount for a party, you need everyone on the same page. And so what we did is literally builds

a page for everyone to be on. And so there's real utility for hosts to always know who's coming,

be able to send a message to all their guests and not worry about annoying people because those messages are going out individually to each person instead of on a noisy group chat. And for guests to have one place to go to easily get all the information they need. And so I really think it is the combination of both real utility as well as vibes that has made part of what it is today.

“So I just back to when you were just coming up with the idea, why did you decide to do this?”

Was it because maybe you didn't enjoy the experience dealing with these group chats trying to figure out logistics? Why did you start this company? I was going through a quarter-life crisis. I think like many people in my early mid-20s, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And wanted to build something that felt really aligned with my values and what I really cared about doing in the world. And the biggest problem that I was seeing both on a societal

level and on a personal level was that there was this trend toward social isolation or even back then it had become so easy to get addicted to your phone, which is fundamentally a solitary experience. You're just like sitting there on your couch and you're bed scrolling endlessly for hours. And I was doing that. Everyone I knew was doing that. And so it had gotten so much harder to step into the real world and find real connection. And then on a personal level as I got older,

I found it a lot harder to meet new people and make new friends. I took it for granted in college that I was just surrounded by like-minded people who I had ample opportunities to hit it off with. But when I started working, I was way busier. There were fewer people around me. And I just didn't have that many avenues to build my social circle. And so, part of it was really trying to solve that problem first for myself and then for everyone else because what I did know was that the

easiest way to meet people was through parties. I have always been a party girl. That was a big

part of college for me. I was in a sorority. I paid probably as much attention to my social life as I did to academics. And what I learned from that was yes, obviously parties are fun. They are fundamentally

“about entertainment and having a good time. But they also provide this really important engine”

of building community. There are not then-tick way to meet new people and meet people who aren't technically strangers, but are actually friends of friends where you have some pre-existing social connection. And then, they're also a way to grow closer to weak connections that you do have. So, moving beyond just having a couple really close friends, to having a much wider circle of people that you're somewhat close to. Parties are a great engine for making that happen. And so,

I thought if we can just make it way easier to plan parties, then we can unlock this really important

that's absolutely how it's played out. Do you think that this learningness crisis is a function

“of screens? Is that what it's causing it? I think absolutely. It's so, if you think about the history”

of socializing and entertainment, they've always kind of been entwined. Before we had screens,

the way that we would connect with, the way that we would entertain ourselves is by connecting with other people. We used to have social clubs. We used to go out to ballrooms and go dancing together. We would go to the opera. And what we started losing was that social aspect of entertainment. So, we got movies and then we got TVs and all of a sudden we're just kind of silently all watching a screen together. At least with the TV, we're all kind of together watching TV in the living room.

And then what happens is when phones came around, that entertainment shifted to becoming an individual experience. I can watch TV on my phone in my bedroom and not even hang out with my family

in the living room. And so, when we've always craved entertainment and there's nothing wrong with that,

I love TV. I love being on my phone. But when there's no alternative way to find connection, that's when it becomes really problematic. And so, what we thought about it, part of all is we're not trying to fight however much people want to be on their phones. That's

“for them to decide. But what we are trying to do is make it so that if you want to open up your”

phone and access the real world and find really fun things to do and people to do them with, that it's almost as easy to do that as it is to open your phone and start scrolling. It's a really great point that the fact that entertainment is inherently tied to socialization and being around other people. And it seems like we kind of lost sight of that over the past. I know 20, 30 years, maybe because of Hollywood, because movies were so entertaining.

But it's almost like we forgot that actually the real reason that it's entertaining is because you're in the presence of other people, you're talking about it. And it may be think of, I remember when gaming videos became a huge deal. People would be playing video games, but there were actually more people who were watching other people play video games and then talking about the person playing the video game. And everyone's like, "How? Why is this interesting

to people? Why would you want to watch someone gaming on YouTube and talking?" And it's like,

“because there's a social element to that that we've kind of missed. I think what's interesting”

as well about the timeline here, you were pretty early to the loneliness trend. This is something that has exploded as a, as a topic of conversation culturally, probably in the past year or two. You were starting this back in 2020, is that correct? Yes, the company started in March 2021. March 2020. So presumably you're working months before that on the idea, you're pretty tuned into this loneliness thing. What brought you, what brought this to your attention? Why were you investigating

this was this just based on your own experience from being out of college? Were you looking into the data? What got you interested? I didn't look at any data. This was straight from the heart. It was just how I was feeling. I was feeling lonely. And so many people around me were feeling lonely. And I don't think I could have started this company or any company by looking at the data or doing any kind of top-down analysis. It was fully from the heart of just what do I care

about solving? And at the early stages of building a company, you have nothing to lose, right? You've built to nothing. And so if it doesn't go well, you've lost to nothing. And so I just kind of put it all out there. I was like, I want to solve this for myself. And even if I just build a better way for me and my friends to hang out, I think I will have done something great for my own life. And if that works and other people feel the same way, maybe we could actually do this for

millions or even billions of other people. And that was the hope. How did you get stilted? Did you have any engineering background? What was the first few weeks and months of solving this company?

I have an incredible technical co-founder named Joy. She is the engineering brains behind the company

and the brains behind so much more. So I met Joy through a mutual friend in 2019. And I told her about what I wanted to build. And I was very lucky that she got super excited by the idea because she also plans, she plans very elaborate parties and felt so many of the same stresses and struggles

everyone and managing the timing. And so she as an engineer was really passionate about building a solution to this. And so we spent a few months just mind melding about what kind of products we wanted to build, what kind of company we wanted to build, what our goals were, what our values were. And we got really lucky that all of those things aligned. We did a bunch of those co-founder quizzes where you each answer a bunch of questions and then you compare your answers to see if you're aligned.

And once we decided, we were aligned. We're like, okay, let's just do this. So you decided you're going to do it and then a gigantic global pandemic hits then what happens. Yeah, that was terrible. I'm not going to lie. So we decided to start the

company together in January of 2020. And I was very naive. It was my first time starting a company.

“And I was just like, okay, well, I think the next thing you do is like you go and try to raise”

some venture funding. So let me go try to do that. So I was seeing you quit your job at this point and do it. Yes, I quit my job. I was working at an AI startup that I quit in the beginning of 2019. Okay. So I had been almost a year without a job without any money. So it was already like tough on a personal level. So we went out to race funding, went to the Bay Area. It was a really tough fundraising process because nobody really wanted to fund two young women with a party start up.

It just sounded totally frivolous. But we got very lucky and managed to raise a bit of pre-seed funding.

And then we were like, okay, we're ready to start the company. It's the second week of March

2020 Monday morning. Let's go and then the world shut down. And our first ever official meeting to work on part of all the company was just joy and I rolling out a bed in our pajamas and

“turning on Zoom and being like, what do we do? So at the time, if you remember, nobody knew”

how long the pandemic was going to last. We thought it was going to be like a three week thing. I thought it was going to be a cut hole. Yeah. And so we were like, okay, yeah, this is annoying, stay indoors, you know, get groceries, cook a lot. So at the time, we weren't really worried. Like, there was so much just initial setup. It takes a while to build a product from the ground up, setting up all the infrastructure. And so we were waiting it out and then

all of a sudden it's like May and the pandemic shows no science of slowing. And then by June, we were like, we can't just wait for this thing to go away because it's clearly not going away and it seems like it's getting worse. And so then we were at a real juncture because the number one rule of building great products is be constantly talking to users and really

“understanding what they want and actually get the product into users hands and have them tested.”

We couldn't test an app to help you plan parties during a global pandemic. We were not going to do that. And so with this limitation of we can't test the product, we had to get really creative to figure out what aspects of it we could start to make progress on. So we built kind of our coordination layer of particle and started testing that for virtual parties. To be honest, we hated virtual parties, but it was it was something. And then in the fall, we found this very

small cohort of people who were testing three times a week and were gathering outdoors, masked in groups of no more than 20 people. And we built a bunch of safety features into part of all at that time. The ability to mandate a temperature check, the ability to mandate, testing the ability to mandate that people quarantine before an event that people are masked. And so we kind of layered on those safety features early to get to the point where we felt comfortable

giving part of a little to small groups of people. And so those early beta is allowed us to get a little more conviction in what we were building. It was still an absolute slog for the next

like eight months. And then finally, once vaccines were widely available, that was around the time

that the product had matured a little bit. And we still had no idea if it was going to actually work, but we were finally able to actually try to actually test it. And so in the summer of 2021, we started just sharing part of all with our friends. And over the course of the next few months, we both just kept getting these texts being like, hey, I just got a part of full invite. Like, how did you get a part of full invite? Like, I didn't tell you about it. Like, how could

you know about it if I didn't tell you about it? And what we realized was that it was starting to

it was growing and growing and growing. And the volumes were so small at that time, but the growth was

“undeniable. And to make a very long and difficult journey short, the rest is kind of history we've been”

growing ever since then. We'll be right back. This is advertiser content brought to you by Virgin Atlanta. Again, a couple weeks back. I got you a birthday gift not to pair myself on the back, but it was a pretty good one. It was indeed. You surprised me with Virgin Atlantic upperclass tickets to London. So tell us all about it. It was pretty incredible. From the moment I entered that upperclass cabin, I have to tell you, I felt like a VIP.

Anything I needed a drink, snack, assistance with the seat, flat seats, flat seats, exactly. Had the four-course meal, got my champagne very delicious and enjoyed the food. And the journey home. The journey home was great. I went to the Virgin Atlantic LHR Clubhouse. That's the Heathrow Clubhouse. Heathrow Clubhouse was awesome. Got myself a coffee, headed over to the meditation pod that they called the Soma Dome, kind of felt like a sort of

spaceship where you relax and think nice thoughts. So I did that for a little bit. Then we went over to the wing, which of these acoustically sealed boots, where you could do some work. You could even record a podcast. I didn't do that, but maybe I should have. It was a very enjoyable experience.

“So, Ed, they cool real question here. What do you plan to get me from my birthday?”

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thoughts on the market wherever you get your podcasts. We're back with first-time founders. So it's really interesting because I remember fixing price. So let's take a look at the 50% post-probe-web, and we're back with first-time founders. So it's really interesting because I remember during COVID there was this assumption among a lot of people that this was going to change the world forever. And in a lot of ways it did. I would say

remote work was kind of a permanent change, or at least there was a lot more remote work today. But it's something else that a lot of people were saying was that this is going to change the way people socialise. We're going to start having virtual experiences. Facebook decided to change its entire name to meta because they thought we were all going to be living in the meta-verse,

“and that's how we were going to be interacting. We saw billions of dollars funneling into this idea”

that we're never really going to get together in person anymore. That was just the vibe that

everyone was sort of going with. I can imagine as a founder being in that environment and your whole product, your whole idea is getting people together in person. Meanwhile, the whole world is kind of in agreement, this is not the future. Did that not kind of take the wind out of your sales, and was that not kind of a problem when you're trying to pitch to VCs who are probably pretty into this whole match of us then? It was really hard. It was first and foremost very psychologically

difficult. I think when you're a founder and you're early on your journey, one thing people don't talk about a lot is how insecure you feel. Even if you are building the product that the market is

most excited about, you feel insecure, you're learning something that you've never done before,

you have no idea if it's going to work, and you're balancing this deep confidence and conviction and passion that you have with this very real fear of the entire thing flopping. For us, that was compounded by exactly what you were talking about, which is that it felt like the whole world was moving in a different direction than us. There were these virtual events startups that were raising

"Are we crazy?" The thing that kept us going was two things. One was just the feedback that we were hearing from our users who were telling us that this product was very important to them, that it was making a difference in their lives, that it was making it easier for them to connect that people were making friends because of part of all, and so just staying close to our community, and hearing that feedback from them was a huge source of what kept us going, and then the other

was our own understanding of human behavior. One of my favorite things about joy, my co-founder is, she's not only the best engineer I've ever worked with, but she's also one of the most insightful people about human being. She was actually an anthropology major in college and got a CS minor, and so she has this very shrewd understanding of what people care about what they want,

and so the discussions that we were always having is, the human brain is hard-wired for real-world

connection. You can look at brain scans, there's like heat maps of the brain, and when they do brain scans of people looking at their phone, it's all kind of blue, it's not registering deeply. But when you look someone in the eye, the heat map just turns bright red. It is on a neurological level, something that we are hardwired to do, and so knowing that, knowing that there is nothing that can replace in-person connection, that gave us a lot of conviction that that fundamental human

need would outlast any trend. Summer of 2021, I have it in my head, I've talked about this with my friends, that was probably the best summer of my life. We had been, it was just when things were starting to beginning to open back up again. I had been, I had just wrapped up my senior year of college, and we had rules and masking rules, and we basically wanted to interact with each other, in fact, if you did, you would get in trouble, you'd get investigated by the university.

So everyone had been inside for such a long time, and then it felt like the summer, it was a summer in New York, it just exploded, where everyone was just ravenous to interact with each other. I was going out, I mean, we were partying pretty much every night, I was just starting my job, but I didn't really care about that. All I wanted was to socialise with people.

“I believe that that is when I started to see the possible kept on being a migrator, because people”

wanted to just get together constantly, which makes me think that perhaps COVID was kind of a silver lining for you guys, where it was a reminder of just how much we want this stuff. And I would based on my own experience, assume that usage just exploded in the summer of 2021. Is that right? It was more gradual than that, because there's only so fast it can grow when it's only through word of mouth, because we weren't doing any marketing at the time. And so I would say it

was more just like, it went from certainly not growing at all to a very steady noticeable climb

that started that summer, and then has never stopped since then. But I agree with you. I think

in retrospect, like the time was so challenging for us, but I think, and I still wish, you know,

“the pandemic had never happened, like most people. But what ended up happening was I think we all”

began to appreciate the importance of real-world connection in our own lives personally. And I think that was a big catalyst for people re-evaluating their priorities and thinking about what they wanted to invest in for themselves, and just give people who want to invest in their social life such an amazing tool to do that. So let's talk about the product itself a little bit. So one thing that people should be aware of is the fact that Apple very recently launched

basically a copycat of portable. Yeah, a year ago. A year ago. Yeah. Apple invites. And as soon as that happened, I was thinking, okay, you know, I really like pineapple, but I'm going to assume that pineapple's done now. I mean, Apple is a huge company.

They got all these incredible product managers. Like, they're probably going to just beat

“pineapple. I haven't received a single apple invite, which to me is a testament. I think to”

product quality is something about this product that is fun. Yeah. I'm not sure how else to describe it, even the way that it communicates to you. It'll say, you know, every time that you

which I think is probably your note at this point in a world where anyone could build a very similar

platform. It's interesting because we do hear a lot from, you know, evidenced by both the largest companies in the world and, you know, other startups or people out there just being like, oh, yeah, I could build part of full, right? It's just like a page and you let people RSPP,

“like that doesn't seem that hard. And the truth is that what makes part of full so incredible is that”

our team is obsessive about every little detail and making that detail frictionless and delightful. And all of that adds up to something that feels so effortless and fun and you can't achieve that

unless you do obsess over the details the way we do. And so our engineers and designers will spend

so much time thinking about an individual flow, an individual screen, you know, where are we placing the buttons? What does this mean? How easy is it for the user to understand what to do next? How can we limit the number of steps it takes to get what you want out of the product? And I think that workflow of just being so obsessive, which is coming from how we want to feel. So when I say we poor our heart and soul into building part of full,

it's not just a platitude. What it means in practice is that when we're building something, we think about how we would want to feel, how we would want to be treated. So, you know,

“if you see an app with like a bunch of pop ups and it's like really annoying and you have to tap”

out of everything. That's like that sucks. Like I hate it when apps do that to me. So I would I do that to our users. And instead, you know, I pay attention when I do encounter a product that feels very effortless and delightful and makes me smile. And I do think about why is that? Why did that just feel so good and easy? And so we take our own user experiences, people in the world, feeling the same problems that I think all of our users feel. And we try to pour that into

every product decision we make so that we're always aligned with what we think is in the best

interest of our users because it's what we would want for ourselves. Organizationaly, how do you accomplish that? Because I think that most CEOs of software companies would agree with everything that you just said. And I think that most would make the argument that they do the same thing as well. We pay attention to the details, we're dialed into what people want, etc. But there is something different about the product feel of this. And again, I returned that word fun. It has a non-corporate

feel to it. The lot of products that you interact with on your phone or on your computer don't really have. And I assume that the reason that happens is because companies get kind of set in their ways in some capacity. And they don't seem to take risks. They don't want to be funny. They don't want to be interesting, creative, delightful. These are words that I feel like I'm not showing up in most product management conversations. So how do you accomplish that from sort of an organizational

perspective? How do you, I mean, what are the values that you instill in the team such that you have a product that is beating Apple when they try to come up with a competitive? So the big thing is we hire incredibly creative people and we let them loose on the product. We have some defining principles for how we build, but we're very careful to not have too many rules. I think one of the most common things I find myself saying, especially to our design team, is go crazy with it. Just go into

your room and just click and tell me what you come back with in a few days. And when you hire incredibly creative people and you give them that kind of freedom, you're allowing great things to happen and things that you wouldn't otherwise see. And where I think it gets constructed is when there are a lot of either explicit or implicit rules that can strain a product. These can be more technical rules. These can be design systems rules. Like, oh, you can't build anything that falls out of our

“design system. You have to use existing components. And obviously design systems are great,”

components are great. We have a lot of them, but if we want to build something really cool and there isn't an existing component for it, we'll just go build that and we'll figure out the systemization of it later. Or if we want to, we don't have a set of copy rules that we follow

friend. Like, what would you say if you were speaking to a friend and speak that way to our

users in the product and then the people who write copy for the product just write very naturally and the people on our team are funny and smart and clever and so the copy ends up being really good. And so I think it's just about unleashing the creative potential of highly talented people that makes that possible and then organizationaly limiting the amount of rules that you apply, which end up creating so many constraints. Is there a downside to that? I agree. I generally

have the same message for my team, which is go crazy, take a lot of risks, see what happens and if

“it doesn't work, whatever, we'll just try another thing. Because I think that it's important for”

things to be fresh and interesting and creative. But at the same time, rules exist for a reason,

systems exist for a reason, things can go wrong. Is there, have you found that there is ever a downside to having a sort of no rules system where people can kind of try out whatever they want? I'll answer that in two ways. One, I think it's important to recognize that your brand and the space that you operate in defines the maximum bounds of the rules that you have to follow. So if you're Microsoft or if you're a B2B SaaS company, there's a set of things you can't do because it just

doesn't make sense for your brand. And because we're a party company, there's just so much more we can do. Someone on our merge team right now is making company merge, not for us, but we're sending it sending gifts to some of our VIPs and their songs. We can do that. But I don't think Microsoft can do that. And so we are fortunate to operate in a space where we can have a lot of fun because that feels natural for a brand like ours in a product like ours in a space like ours.

And I actually think one of the biggest limitations of most companies that operate in an event space or an adjacent space is that they're too afraid to just have as much fun with it as users are having at these parties. So we're structurally in a different position than a lot of companies as well. And even something like Apple, they have a very revered brand. And so that also limits the bounds of how much fun they can have just because they have such an established brand ethos that

they've had for like whatever 30 years now. And then to answer your question about the downsides of course there are downsides. You know, you can give people a lot of freedom but then there are

“times when you have to say no and saying no becomes so much more painful both for you and for the”

person hearing it when a really fun idea does get killed or there's a direction that people are going down and then you're like, wait wait wait wait I don't actually think we should go in that direction and hear us why. And so I think every organizational decision comes with a cost but we've just found that the benefits vastly outweigh the costs. The ability to have fun is such an interesting competitive advantage and it it's huge and I think it is a really great point that like, you know Apple,

yeah they might be able to create a product and they've gone and they've tried to create the product but they are limited by the fact that they have to yeah operate within the bounds of their brand they can't have as much fun. I wonder if there is a learning for companies especially software companies that are delivering digital products in 2026 that maybe you do need to push the boundaries of fun a little bit more. I wonder if large enterprises have become two set in their

ways they're becoming two afraid of being interesting, funny, fun, dynamic, all of these things

that corporations aren't supposed to be, but ultimately young people especially love that.

Yeah. I mean we love stuff that is irreverent, humorous, comedic, ironic, we love all of that. And you're starting to see it on social media where companies social media accounts are starting to be a little bit more out there a little bit more edgy but I do wonder I agree that because you are a party company it allows you to be that way. Yeah. But I wonder if still Microsoft

“could learn something from this fun trend. I think they could and I think that I think it's just”

hard when you're printing boatloads of cash and you're running out of top performing stocks in a rocket. It's just like why take the risk with what's working and so that's why I think it's

earlier in their journey of defining their brand like when you're an early stage startup like no one knows who you are. And so you have much more opportunity to redefine yourself

“versus like I don't know it would be weird if like service now started tweeting memes. Right?”

100%. We'll be right back. Hi, I'm Renee Brown. And I'm Adam Grant. And we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop. A podcast that's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling and questioning.

It's going to be fun. We rarely agree. But we almost never disagree and we're always learning.

That's true. You can subscribe to the Curiosity Shop on YouTube or follow in your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday. All the way back in the year 2000. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos had this big idea that maybe the future wasn't typing it was talking to your computer with your voice. Jeff Bezos didn't invent this idea, but he did push his team to invent what would become Alexa and the Amazon Echo, two things that brought voice computing

into millions of homes around the world. This week on version history, our chat show about the best and worst and most interesting products in tech history, we're telling the whole story of the Echo and how Amazon managed to get it right and still kind of missed the future. That version history on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts. We're back with first-time founders. So the next big question for the portfolio question I've have and lots of other people have,

“it's free. Yes. How and when are you going to monetize this thing?”

So monetization is very top of mind for us right now and the reason that we haven't monetized to date is twofold. One, we're just a very small team. Right now we're only like a little over 30 people. And so there's a limit to physically how much we can do and how much of the company we can

build out at any given point in time. And we've always had so much demand from our users

for more and more and more when it comes to features and experiences and things they want to see out of the platform that we have just been overwhelmed with things to build on our roadmap that don't happen to involve monetization. And so we had to kind of force ourselves last year to start thinking much more actively about it even well before we actually started to monetize because for us what's really important is ensuring that the way that we make money is fundamentally aligned with

our users and is not extractive from our users. So how can we win when our users win? And that became the defining principle for how we thought about monetization. So we're not ready to share the specifics of how we will monetize but it's the philosophy is we now believe that we can build things that we know people will pay for, that they want to pay for, that they've in many cases told us that they will pay for because we're talking to our users all the time and we've carved out space

in our roadmap to go build these things that add value to users lives that allow them to pay us directly. And so the source of our revenue comes from the people we're trying to serve. And so

“those principles, I think, allow us to start investing in monetization and allow the product”

to grow in concert with that monetization rather than say waiting a few more years and then being like, oh, we should probably start making money. It sounds like you're not going to run ads.

No, it also just doesn't. We will never sell user data. That is just a hard line in the sand for us.

And when you think about most advertising models, they also work best when the model of the product is to keep eyeballs glued to the screen. That's not the model of particle. The whole point of the product is to get you off of your phone and into the real world. The most important time spent metric for us is the time that you spend partying with your friends going to a really cool event or talk or concert series and having a great time. But we couldn't monetize those eyeballs

even if we wanted to because they're not happening on the product. And so from the beginning, just running a bunch of display ads has never really made sense because it just wouldn't work with the way that our product works because we don't optimize on time spent. And so we've had to think

gearing up for IPO soon is Strava, which is a beloved consumer product that has built this

incredible fan base of people who are really, really passionate about their fitness and about how

Strava supports them in their goals and they've been able to scale up revenue remarkably into the hundreds of millions by building something that users pay for directly when so much of the experience,

“you know, the running experience is actually happening outside of the platform. So that's I think”

one example of how it can be done really well. What did you make of OpenAI's decision to start running ads on chart GPT? I was assuming, I mean, I think they need to do something because I'm sort of pro monetization, figure out your business, make some of my other ways what are we doing here. But the pushback has been pretty enormous. There was obviously anthropics ad where they made fun of the

fact that OpenAI's never going to run ads. Interestingly, anthropic kinds of kind of puts themselves

in a corner now, they can't run ads. And that's we all forget about the commercial they ran at the Super Bowl. What did you make of that decision? Do you think that that was the right decision in the wrong decision? What do you think? We can never and will never have an ads model on part of full. But that doesn't mean that I don't think it can make sense for other businesses. I what I do agree with is that not all ads are bad. Like I actually love the ads. I got on Instagram.

It's like how I find, how I found a new couch and you know, when I'm looking for a new sweater, I'll just like get an ad for a great sweater. And I think that's great. I think where it gets really

scary for me and for a lot of people is how our data is being used to serve those ads,

which you know, honestly is how Instagram serves me such great ads, right? They know so much about me. And so that's that chip is sailed. But with something like a chat GPT, it's so personal for people. People are pouring their heart and souls into these things. And I think when your soul is being

“barred to a product in that way, you have to take that with a much higher degree of responsibility”

than the data about just like what reels with like cat videos am I clicking on? What is next for Portsfall? Sounds like monetization is a big piece of it. What does the company look like five, ten years down the line? Our vision is to power everything you do in the real world with your friends and make all of your real world moments as meaningful as possible. So today we are most known for powering private social events, the parties that you're

throwing, the parties that your friends are throwing. And that's a really big part of people's social lives, but it's not the only part. We go to live events and concerts and shows and pop-ups. We go shopping. We travel with our friends. We go to plays and movies. And so there's so much else that makes up how we spend time in the real world that we think part of law has a huge opportunity to facilitate. And so last year we launched a support for public events where events can be distributed

much more widely. And we launched a discover feed. So if you go into the app, you can tap our discover tab and you can browse incredibly interesting hand curated events that are happening around you. We actually have a human curator on staff who's actually taking an editorial lens to the content that's appearing on your discover feed. And so what you're seeing there isn't just every event we have. It's not even something that an algorithm came up with. It's a human being

“saying, "Hey, I think you should go to this." So we have pop-ups. We have readings. We have a lot of clubs.”

Now, so book clubs, run clubs, knitting clubs, volunteer groups, bird watching groups, pick-up basketball groups. And so what we're thinking a lot about is we've started to see so much traction, which is people engaging with these public events and with our discover feed. Now we're thinking a lot about how do we support the communities that are forming around these events. Because sometimes it's not just a one-off event. I'm part of a book club and we actually meet

every single week. And we want a place to talk about the book, the chapter we're reading before we show up. We want something recurring, a recurring space where we can connect even outside of the larger events that we're having. Or if you're a volunteer group, you might throw a few big fundraisers a year for the cause that you're supporting. But your group might be hanging out way more frequently than that. And so how can we power not just your annual fundraisers,

for us. This year is really facilitating so many more of the in-person experiences that people are already having and bringing to those experiences what we brought to parties and events, which is ease and delight. It seems that what policy is really doing, I mean, social media, most apps on your phone have made it extremely seamless and easy and enticing to just scroll and just be on your

“phone. And that's why we do it because it's so easy and you're getting just immediate of”

mean hits. And that's why we're all addicted. It seems like the idea is to make in-person socialization as seamless and easy as possible. Yes. Such that it's literally like, oh yeah, I have no choice

but to just go meet up with people. So really hard thing to do because the reality is going out,

getting out of the house, coordinating with people, meaning up with people, like it simply is a hard thing. It is. So making that an easy thing is a very bold and difficult task, but I commend you for trying. I think it seems to be beginning to work. Thank you. What have been some of the largest lessons? You started this about six years ago. It's your first company. What have been some of your largest learnings from starting this company? Starting a company is the hardest thing

“that I've ever done. And when I talk to other founders, they all say the same thing. And when it's”

so hard, the rebuttable presumption is to not do it. Like doing literally anything else would be not just easier, but would probably make more money. Like have a higher expected value calculation of just, you know, going a big tech and making a great salary there. And so my biggest piece of advice is to be incredibly passionate about whatever you're building. Don't build because of VC told you it was a great market. Don't build because you saw some list of requests for startups.

Don't build because you looked at a bunch of data and saw that a market was promising. And I'm not saying that doesn't work for everyone. It may work for some people. But just what I know is that this journey is so emotionally taxing and psychologically taxing and comes with new unexpected

“challenges every single day. And just so there's so much fragility in it that I think you have to”

have something deep and powerful that really grounds you and keeps you going even when things seem

impossible. Even when you start your party start up and then a global pandemic happens that makes parties illegal for a really long time. Like you have to have some passion and true belief that keeps you going in your darkest moments. Yeah, it's true. It's like if you're going to start your and thing loving it and enjoying it is a requirement because if you don't then you'll fail. That's not true of a normal job. Yeah. You can hate your job if you're pretty well in a normal

job. But you can't really do that as a founder. Found a question. For people who say I really want to start something but I don't have any ideas. All I know is I don't really like my job. It's not interesting to me. And I like entrepreneurship. I just want to start something. Yeah. What do you say to those people? Solve a problem that you feel personally. Okay. Build for yourself and then take the leap of faith that other people feel the same way that you do.

Because that is the problem that you're going to be most intimately familiar with and you will know in your bones when you've built the right solution to that problem. And that truth is much stronger data than any survey you could run or even any user interview that you could have. And so center in your own problems and your own truth and if you solve those problems really well, there will be at least some other people out there who feel the same way and now you've just

solved their problem. Great advice. Trim earthy is the CEO and co-founder of Partful Shreya. Thank you very much. Thank you so much Ed. This episode was produced by Alison Weiss and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. I'll re-search Associates on Dashalan and Christina Donahue and I'll see you producer is Claire Miller.

Thank you for listening to First Time Founders from Profty Media. We will see you next month

with another founder story.