How to Invest When Nothing Makes Sense

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with regard to where the war is heading? And it really was, to me, the story of the commander-in-chief who weeks into this war is deeply uncertain about how it ends. I'm John Finer, co-host of the Long Game Podcast. This week, Jake Sullivan and I break down the President's speech

and discuss what it's like to negotiate with the Iranians. We will also debate whether Iran should accept a deal. The episode is out now. Search and follow the long game wherever you get your podcasts. Today's number 12.

“That's how many tons of KitKat someone stole from a truck”

in Europe last week. That's more than 400,000 candy bars. It actually identifies Chuck that my pronouns are her and she. ♪ No matter how long you look, you'll see ♪ ♪ No matter how long you look, you'll see ♪

♪ And the luck you can ask for the next beer ♪ - Took a while, right? Actually, I maybe will get this one a little faster, although, who knows, with that Princeton degree in classics I'm at at. And it was none of the same. - One joke, one joke. Come on.

Why did we always have to do three jokes?

What is the crowd want? The crowd wants more dog, more dog humor. So, oh, is that what they want? - I'm at therapy with my partner. And my partner starts bitching that I can't even answer the most simple questions. And the therapist looks to me and says, "What does she mean?" And I said, "That's a feminine pronoun."

Think about it. It's coming. - There it is. Now we've got to get sick. - Got it. Got a pretty quick way. - Almost up to Cal State, Northridge, Level IQ from Princeton. I feel bad now. That's an insult to CSUN. CSUN is an amazing university. The Cal State system, Ed, is really the crown jewel of California.

I used to think it was the University of California. That's really the Cal State system. My kind of way of script, how are you, Ed? - Well, it's very exciting, Descot, because this is officially our first episode on the new Profty Markets YouTube channel.

We wanted to make it easier for everyone to find and subscribe directly to all of our markets content in one place. We thought that the Profty Pod channel was getting a little bit cluttered. So, from now on, if you're watching on YouTube, this is where we will be posting every day with the stories that are moving the markets.

“So, please hit subscribe so that you don't miss what matters we would love to have you with us.”

Scott, how are you feeling about our new channel? - I'm super excited, and if you like what you hear, please just write down, do us a favor, and hit subscribe, and also, there's really a secondary benefit here, because Ed's feeling a little bit, quite frankly, Ed's feeling a little bit insecure, because, as you probably heard, pretty much every podcast in the portfolio was nominated

for a webbie. - Okay. - Let me think. No mercy to Malice was nominated for Best Newsletter, Best Thought Leadership, Raging Moderates, Best News and Politics, Pivot, Best Tech and Business, and,

let me see, Profty Markets was nominated for... - Yep. So, Ed is feeling a little insecure. - So, what do you think that's about? What do you think that's about?

- I mean, you should be feeling insecure too, because it's also your show. But, what do you think that's about, why do we not get nominated? What is that? - I have absolutely no idea how these award shows figure out who gets nominated and why.

All I know is there's about 700 million categories in a cost money to enter.

It's a total fucking griffed. I mean, I can't wait to accept the award.

“I mean, if we're really going to be honest, I think what's gone on here is pretty transparent,”

and that is, with you turning 27 and cleric turning 28, everyone just decided you're over the hill, and they need to turn to younger nominees. - I could be chair. I like that. - Care's Fisher?

I don't know if you know the seven other podcasts in a co-host and care's Fisher. She's literally getting every lifetime achievement award in the world right now. And I'm like, you know, that just means everyone thinks you're dying soon. She's getting all these lifetime achievement awards from all these different, you know.

- She's getting it knowing all the people who run these things. That's what I need to get better. I need to show up and meet the people who are on the committees and go rob elbows with the people who run establishment media. I need to up my appearances on the mainstream cable news networks.

I need to get really, really in bed with the establishment. And once they know that, once they know I'm their friend, that's when we'll start winning some awards.

“- I think you can pull that off, you're just going to have to become substantially more”

interesting a person. But I think that that's, you're a cisgender white dude from Princeton who just turned 27. That's not like, God, I want to meet him. - Hey, we can be cool too.

- Yeah. We don't check very many boxes. - May I launch us into this show? - What the hell? - Let's do it.

- Okay. We're discussing the biggest unanswered questions in the markets right now.

The SpaceX IPO and losers in the sneaker wars, let's start with our first story.

It feels like one of the most uncertain market environments in years right now, not because of what we know, but because of how much we don't know. There are a number of huge open-undered questions with massive implications from what happens next in Iran to how AI ultimately reshapes the economy and the challenges these are the kinds of forces that can materially move markets and no one has clear answers.

So Scott, let's walk through some of the biggest questions out there and try to figure out what investors should actually be doing in an environment like this. We probably have to start with the Iran question, I mean, what we saw on Wednesday when Trump made his speech at 9pm, people were thinking that he was going to say something that made it sound like we were going to get out of Iran in some capacity or that we were

winding things down. He kind of said that, but also not really, he also seems to double down and say that we were going to get more aggressive, but that we're going to do it over two to three weeks. It wasn't the kind of speech that markets really wanted to hear and then what we see, we saw an immediate drop in SNP futures right when he made that speech and then we saw oil

surging way back up again and this is just another example of the uncertainty in the markets

right now around this Iran question, where we're basically just waiting for what is

Trump going to say, we've had many, many instances of this.

“We had back on March 9 when Trump said, I think the war is very complete and then the”

markets went up and then he a few weeks, a few days later, he said, more negative things that we don't even know that leaders, we didn't know who were dealing with markets went down. Then he says that we're having very good and productive talks with Iran, markets go up. Then Iran says, no, those talks didn't happen.

Markets go down. We are essentially being whip-sword back and forth because of the huge, huge weight of this war and what it could do to global markets and to global economies, I'm no one really knows what to do. So we're just kind of following the president's lead here.

What do you make first of the markets reactions to what's happening on the Iran front?

I think that the president has no fidelity to the lives of servicemen and servicemen to the markets more broadly. I think that we're in the midst of what we'll be seeing as the greatest financial scandal in history where we're using the US military, our geopolitical currency globally, our allies relationships with our allies, all of the means of creating volatility such that the president

can engage in insider trading.

“I think a good autocrat, not only punishes his enemies, which is more difficult with a court”

system in the US. You can do it to a certain extent. You can put, you can put Dario Modi's firm on a supply chain risk list and make a very difficult for them to do business, but you can't have them thrown out of a window like Putin doesn't rush or what people it doesn't like.

So what he turns to is more what Putin does on the upside and that is he carves up US assets and gives them to give them to people loyal to him, inspiring a great deal of loyalty. People are sort of like, okay, I sort of buy into many of his policies, but you know, everyone's getting rich with me. I'm going to get rich and just kisses ass and maybe he'll give me defense contract.

I don't deserve a government contract. I don't deserve by a golden share in my company when I'm failing to compete in tell whatever it might be. And if I go along, get along, he'll make me much, much richer. And the ultimate example of that in the most corrupt one, where he will be in front of a

camera in a jury in three to five years, maybe more like five to seven, pretending to be really old and that he doesn't remember, he is giving so much information to people about

has anything resembling a cogent date around the end or even a strategy here, the market

surge and oil drops. And then when he comes out with this word salad, if I'm going to bomb them to the Stone Age or it's over when I feel it in my bones or there's reports of amphibious vehicles and another 2,500 Marines deploying to the region, the market's plummet. And as evidenced by tons of reporting here, there is massive options activity before he

makes these announcements. So clearly word is leaking out, he knows it's leaking out, he could have secure phones, he could be 100% in a secure location. Instead he's obviously leaking this information on purpose to his friends and family.

And we have never seen this kind of, and it's not the insider trading that is so upsetting.

That's criminal. What's upsetting is he's using our military, our tax catalogers, the death and destruction

“of other people and US service members lives as pawns in what is, I believe, the greatest”

insider trading scheme in history and I believe that's going to slowly but surely unfold. I realize I'm going to be a bit of a rant here, but bear with me, I've said for a while that one of the most dangerous things about America and income inequality, which I think is our biggest problem, is the 0.1% no longer are vested in the success of America. What do I mean by that?

The 0.1% have their own transportation, they don't give us should about four hour TSA lines, they go to the, they go to T2boro, they have their own plans, they don't have security. They have their own police forces, they live in buildings, in neighborhoods that have incredible

security and dormants, so you always feel safe, they have their own health care, there's

no waiting in line, they have, they have concierge health care systems, they get whatever they want, they have the best health care on the world, so what is their vested interest? If the people have, the 40% of Americans are medical identical to that, they can't relate to. Not being able to take care of your parents, they can't relate to it. They have been removed from what it is to be in America and the same thing is happening

on a larger level with America, and that is, as we break shit, we are actually removed

“from the global economy and the short run, I believe in a long, run, we'll pay a huge”

price, but if you look at the global markets and some of our allies, their stock markets are down more than ours, because we are blessed with energy independence, food independence, and when there's a flight to safety, America is sort of a given good, and this is something you learn in economics, and that is an Ireland, when potatoes got more expensive, their demand went up, because it crowded out expenditure or consumer income, you could spend

on beef or chicken, so you were poor, so you had to buy more potatoes, because you couldn't afford it. I wonder if America has become the ultimate given good and removed from the vested interest of the global well-being of the West, because quite frankly, for a lot of reasons that are our fault, when there's danger, when there's insecurity, there's a flight to US stocks,

and we are somewhat immune and don't have the same invested interest in a global health, just the same way the point 1% are no longer invested in the health of America. Just to your point on the inequality problem, the fact that so many, I mean, the wealthiest

“Americans don't seem to have invested interest in America, I think it is reflected in so”

many of the comments that we've seen from the administration, which has mostly been stacked with a bunch of really rich people, mostly former businessmen who made a ton of money, someone like Scott Bessant, who got on stage and talked about how Americans want to buy their fourth, fifth, and sixth houses, that right there is the perfect example of what you're describing, it's hard to create policies that make sense for regular Americans

when your entire world view is shaped by the experiences of the top 0.001% of Americans and that shapes your entire world view, and that seems to be the kinds of people who are in office right now, which might explain why some of these policies have been so false skewed in favor of the richest, but just to go back to the markets response and what we've seen with Iran so far, I mean, it's clear that there's no way to understand what Trump's

agenda actually is, like, there's no rule, there's no strategy, there's no framework you can really use. We used to think it was Taco, like Trump does something and then the markets tell him off and then he stops doing it, but we've seen a lot of moments where the Taco actually hasn't materialized, and so it's starting to get to the point where there might actually

be no way to predict or explain what he's going to do, including with this speech, I'm

very upset about and get very annoyed about.

They're probably trying to create a strategy, create an agenda, and then he just turns on it, an example would be what is going on in the communications between the CIA and Trump. Something he didn't mention which they seemed to not see eye to eye on and they had no explanation for.

The CIA said that Iran was not an imminent threat, and they said that their nuclear capabilities had been eviscerated. That was their statement, that was their position.

“And then Trump comes out and says, why are we doing this?”

Because they're an imminent threat, and because their nuclear capabilities are rising and because we need to neutralize it, that was a fundamental disagreement between the CIA and Trump, which leaves us with basically zero understanding of what the hell is even going on here. And so as an investor, it makes things very, very difficult because the job of the investor

is to try to understand what the future might generally look like, and then build a thesis, build an investment thesis around that understanding of the future. The trouble is that there is just no way to predict it at this point, because this guy is so erratic, not even his AIDS, not even his CIA, can predict what he's going to do or say.

And the trouble is he's having influence over some of the most important significant

market moving events in history. I mean, how he responds to this war, how his thought process and strategy materializes will literally move trillions of dollars. It will reverberate not just for years, but for decades, it could completely royal the oil markets for a very, very long time.

And the job of the investors to try to figure out, where do I stand on this? I think investors look at what's happening with Iran. They throw their hands up and say, we have no fucking clue. So what will we do? We'll just kind of follow what he says, see what happens, and then kind of play it

by ear. But what compounds onto this problem? And this is why I believe we are in the most uncertain investment environment in many years, probably since COVID, is it's not just Iran that is a big question. But there's also the AI question, which people don't know what to do with.

Will AI destroy the labor market or will it not?

Will it be less powerful than people think?

IE. It's bubble. That's what some people said. Or will it be more powerful than people think?

“IE will destroy things like software, and that's why we're seeing software getting crushed.”

And again, the markets are just responding to a little stimuli that they see every now and then such as satrini research, some guy on Twitter posts, a viral AI blog post, and then suddenly $300 billion in market value is a raised overnight. Because investors go, I don't know, maybe he's right, maybe we should sell. And that becomes a problem.

And then I'll just keep going here, there are several other giant questions that no one really knows the answer to at all. Another one would be this potential looming crisis in private credit. Are we going to have a private credit meltdown? Has the industry issued too many bad loans, especially in the software industry?

And are we about to experience a credit crunch in what is now a $2 trillion industry? That is another giant question, and my interview with John Marry, something he said off Mike, which I think is very true is he said, if this were any other year, all we would be talking about right now is private credit. That would be the number one issue on every investor's mind.

But that's not the number one issue, because we've also got oil. We've got potentially the inflationary effects of Iran. What might that do to interest rates people thought that we were going into a rate cutting cycle now it appears that we're starting to price things a little differently. People think we won't have any rate cuts this year, and in fact the chances of a rate

hike over the next 12 months have exploded, which means, I mean, this is obviously no one knows what the fuck is going on right now. I mean, no one has any conviction in their positions, because you can't have any conviction. There's no way to really game out the future and unlike previous questions where it's maybe been limited to one or two industries, all of these questions affect literally everything.

Everyone's lives, everyone's business, which is why I believe it's an interesting moment right now, uncertainty is extremely high, tail risks are all over the place.

“And I think that leaves us with an important question, like, what are you supposed to do in”

that environment? I'm not entirely sure yet, but that is certainly the question that I'm starting to approach. I'm fairly confident advising people what to do in an environment like this, and that is simple, nothing, because when you do something, you're trying to time the market, and that is near impossible.

And I learned this the hard way when Trump was elected in 2016, I thought, this guy's

bankrupted almost every company he started, is a rich kid who's managed to turn whatever

it was, $3 or $500 million of his dad's money into zero a couple times.

I thought, this guy doesn't understand the economy, he's reckless, markets are going to just crash, and I sold everything, and I had some gains, so I had to pay capital gains, and then six months later, the markets were ripping, and I had to buy back in at a higher price. 30 or 40% of my networks by having an emotional reaction in the markets, and the markets

have separated from your emotions, and to a certain extent, from what's going on in the world. Year to date, the Dow is down 5%, but over the past year, it's up 8%. If you didn't know what was going on, you wouldn't know what was going on by looking at the markets, you would know something's going on in oil, but quite frankly, so far the

market response has been a bit of a yon.

March 31st was the best day since May 25, the S&P rose nearly 3%, and as a, nearly 4%,

then Trump promised to hit Iran extremely hard in his Wednesday night speech. When you said that, futures were down more than 1%, oil rose 7%. There's just no fucking way this guy, or some of his accolites aren't making a ton of money here. He knows what he's doing.

That's a whole lot of thing. He's giving me any solace here, and I would recommend it to everybody else. I was watching it. I was up late, whatever. It's a two watching this, is Yahoo, say fucking nothing.

And except, it's like, how can I make, how can I say nothing yet create uncertainty in the markets? That's what he told us to be tried. I want to say nothing, but yet I want to create an environment. Let's also eliminate all the drilling dollars involved.

I want to create an environment of uncertainty and insecurity. I don't care about my reputation, I don't care about America's reputation abroad. I don't care about U.S. servicemen. Just create volatility because I winqueen told people this is what was going to happen.

“The only thing that I took my blood pressure down to like 300 last night was watching over”

and over the launch of Artemis 2, the launch for NASA astronauts into space, and we'll slingshot them around the moon and what's interesting is it's going to cost us so far. It's cost about $44 billion to develop, and the war in Iran is now passed about $38 billion. So so far, you know, pick your fighter here, Artemis 2, or this escalation in the war, and that NASA estimates that it based on the moon will cost by the way, $20 billion to

develop. But what's happened here with this uncertainty? Calshia is now raised the odds of a recession this year from 20% to 30% just over the past month. I'm shocked it's not higher actually, but the president is such a terrible parent.

And that is, you're kind of everyone's mom and dad is the president or the nation's dad or mom. Let's take dad.

There's never been a mom.

And it won't be probably for another 8 or 12 years, who the fuck am I kidding?

“But as a parent, you need to provide some level of certainty and clarity.”

This is what kids need to know what they can expect from their parents. They need guard roles. They need to know that if I do this, I'm going to get in trouble. They need to know who they're coming home to from school. And the most traumatized kids later in life, it's not just the ones that are abused.

It's the ones who didn't know what to expect every day from their parents. Their parents were inconsistent. And there's some research here, you'd rather have an asshole dad than a dad who is super nice and super mean all in the same fucking day. You just need to develop the coping mechanisms to deal with expectations.

And right now, the world, our allies, our enemies don't know what the fuck to expect from this guy. And the uncertainty is worse than, you know, people, it's easier to deal with Putin right now and she because they at least have their other countries and other leaders have a reasonable idea of what to expect from this person.

“Yeah, I think that's a really important, especially the comparison to Trump as the dad of”

America. I mean, I just think about what James Sexton told us last week where he was like, "Hurt people, I mean, the effects of having an erratic parent and the long-lasting traumatic effects on the child are very well documented in the study and we all know what happens there." But it's interesting, like when you draw that parallel, it does make me think like, what

are going to be sort of the PTSD post-traumatic effects on the American people that will last decades as a result of this ridiculously uncertain and fraught environment that he

I mean, I guess we're getting a little bit therapist here, maybe that's not our lane, but it does certainly make me a little concerned. Just real quick, I feel as if I can diagnose President Trump fairly well. He's an asshole and he's an obese man when they're loving his life and they'll be dead soon.

That's my diagnosis here. We'll be right back after the break, and if you're enjoying the show so far, send it to a friend and please follow us on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Support for the show comes from Monarch. Wrangling your finances can leave anyone feeling stressed, collecting back statements,

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with confidence. You can get started at vanta.com/markets. That's V-A-N-T-A.com/markets/markets/markets/markets. We're back with property markets. SpaceX has officially filed for an IPO and it could be the biggest one ever.

The company has confidently filed with the SEC where they potential listing coming as soon as June.

It's reportedly targeting a valuation of more than $2 trillion and could raise up to $75 billion

in the offering. We have known this was coming, but now it is imminent. Scott, there is a ton here to talk about, I mean, just the fact that this is going to be the largest IPO ever, also what it says about the space industry, which has been ripping and, of course, everyone's very excited about it right now because of the launch

of the ultimate too and other things as well. We could talk about what this will do for Elon. The fact that he will become a trillionaire, if this happens, if it goes through, he'll be the world's first trillionaire.

I think decent definition of intelligence, the ability to hold two thoughts in your head at once, being able to understand nuance, and there's nuance here, and that is, people

have a tendency to go, is this an amazing company by the stock, or is it not an amazing

company done by the stock? And what they failed to realize is that they also have to set all of this against the valuation that it's being priced at. So first off, let's talk about SpaceX. It has moats the size of the Amazon.

“I think it has greater barriers of entry right now than any company in the world.”

It's responsible for 85 percent of all space launches in the U.S. last year, and its launch costs are a fifth of its closest competitor. And that's basically, when you talk about launch, it's like talking about a, you know, a semiconductor, it's pretty much how fast and how cheap it is. They're not, it doesn't matter how quickly you get shit into low earth orbit, it matters

how inexpensively and they can do it for five times less. So they can shoot up five of the same five satellites for the same cost as their closest competitor cost to send one satellite into space.

It's got incredible adjacent products.

I'm going to be using Starlink on my flight home. I will now choose an airline or a means of transportation based on whether it has Starlink or not. So you're talking about airlines that are flying the same goddamn tin can at the same price to the same area.

“The only thing they can differentiate on is service, the configuration internally, which”

is getting harder and harder because you can't maintain differentiation there. But Starlink for brief moment is appointed differentiation. It's sweeping the maritime market. It comes in with a better product, like a quarter of the price. So in some is this an amazing company or is it ridiculously overvalued?

The answer is yes, and also this man of the people bullshit, where he's saying is

preserving 30% of the shares with retail investors, he's doing that because retail investors are the only ones stupid enough to pay this price. Institutions weren't going to cover the allotment here. So he gets to say, oh, I'm a man of the people and I'm allocating it to retail as if they're getting in on something.

So anyways, it's just a bit of a prediction here. If you get allocation in the IPO, great. And within two minutes, you want to add it this thing.

“There might be a pop, they'll probably the bankers and in Moscow prices such that there”

is a pop out of the gates, but you do not in six months. If this thing gets out anywhere near 1.8 trillion or 1.7 trillion evaluation, you do not want to be in the stock three six months in when people start to rationalize. And Musk and his his jazz hands can figure out a way to justify anything resembling this valuation.

The point you make that holding two things in your head at the same time, another aspect on this IPO is that there is both a lot of BS and a lot of jazz hands here and also a lot of actual material business substance. So I mean, let's just look at like what SpaceX is, I mean, as you mentioned, they are the leader, the world leader in getting stuff out into space responsible for more than half

of all orbital launches globally last year. So they're launching more than the entire world combined, if you look at the US, they're counted for 85% of launches. So they've got that business. We've called it space hauling in the past and that in that sense, they are the market

leader by a huge huge margin and also they're doing it at the cheapest price. Also the satellite business star link, they control over 10,000 satellites in orbit as of last month. That's more than two thirds of the entire world's total. So they've got this telecommunications business as well, which is also very exciting and

also ripping and there's a lot of reason to be excited about that. And then also, they've got XAI, which is merged into SpaceX as of last year, it's very unclear how that actually played out and to what extent they are actually properly merged at this point. And I guess we'll start to find that out when they start to release the filings as they

file for IPO, which will be very interesting to see, like what is going on there. But also like consider the fact that XAI is one of the leading frontier model companies in the world. I mean, they are competing, yes, they're behind, but they are competing with open AI and I'm throwback.

And so in a lot of ways, there's also a big AI play here that is separate from the space business that you should also consider. And then also consider the fact that XAI is now an owner of X formerly known as Twitter. So then at the same time, it's also a social media company. And then the question becomes, are you bullish on X as a social media platform?

All of these businesses are getting melted into one. And I do think that that is by design because Elon, he's such a magician of commanding these extraordinary multiples because he promises all of these complex and interesting things that you can only really think about way far out into the future, which leaves investors with no choice.

To basically just say, you know, screw it, the town is going to be massive because they're

doing space. And they're doing AI and also telecommunications and digital media. They're doing all of these different things. So it would be stupid to put a normal multiple on the revenues here. So whatever, let's just say that the market gap is called at $2 trillion, will make it the

largest IPO in history, will cross our fingers and wait and see. And that is kind of the approach here. It has been his approach before, especially in the case of Tesla, where he just wraps the taxis and the humanoid robots all into one thing, and it's going to be the same thing with SpaceX.

Yeah. I think that he's conglomerating.

“And I think what he's trying to do is SpaceX is the lipstick.”

It's an amazing company with an amazing product and XAI and Twitter are the pig.

Okay, XAI is growing within the Twitter community, but the reality is people are coming

to grips with the fact that the winners and losers in AI in terms of LLMs. It's all about one thing. It's about the enterprise market. And that is consumers have access to a ton of free product and there's some revenue there.

Nothing. Nothing in the consumer market is going to justify these types of evaluations when they have access to a ton of free open-weight LLMs. So this is all about the enterprise market. And let's talk about the enterprise market.

You have anthropic is now 40% of enterprise spend. And I read yesterday that they're getting 70% share on new spending in the enterprise market. And seven is by the fact that OpenAI is focusing because they are clearly freaked out. OpenAI has about 27% share, Google 21, XAI is negligible, like barely even registers. So I'm not sure I buy that XAI is a better LLM.

Now what's interesting is can the superior connectivity of SpaceX/whatever there is doing with Starlink going to give XAI an advantage?

“I think what is effectively doing here is he's saying, OK, I have one amazing company and”

space. There's nothing cooler I can talk about it and have videos of launches. It's going to be really dramatic. Really cool. It's perfect for him.

It's like the ultimate carnival barker. And then I can vary this other shit in it, which will give it an AI and a media spin. And then I think eventually he'll roll in Tesla, which is also starting to collapse and talk about autonomous connectivity that's unrivaled, offline through LLMs, which inform these incredible products.

So it's going to be a story. There's going to be so much spin here. But it's perfect for him because he was able to artificially elevate Tesla for a decade. There's just no fucking way to rationalize Tesla's valuation, other than him saying,

"Oh, Reboven," or Autonomous Driving, it's coming at 1,000, a million Autonomous Taxes

on the Tesla Taxes on the road within 12 months.

“I think he said that in 2017, so it is a board of that now.”

That's humanoid robots. I mean, now that the taxis look over here, a humanoid robot, we haven't heard much about those humanoid robots lately. So this is the ultimate, he's got an amazing company that will be sort of the lead, the lipstick on these different pigs.

This is going to be an incredible act of showmanship, an amazing company. Maybe worth $300 billion? I don't know. Maybe worth $400 billion. I think that segues us well into this retail investor element.

I mean, the start that is important for people to know is that SpaceX is allocating more than 30% of the IPO shares to retail investors, most IPOs will save 10% for retail. So there is clearly, I mean, you could read this as, "Oh, this is nice of them because they're opening up to retail investors and they're giving retail investors a shot." Before you read it as, they need the retail investor to prop up this very, very ridiculous

valuation because perhaps it will be the retail investors, maybe they view it quite cynically, maybe they see that the retail investors might be the dumb money, and they say retail investors will be the ones who are most susceptible to our kind of ridiculous narrative laundering story here about a future of AI combined with space, by the way, we should mention that he's also talking about building data centers in space.

That's like one of his big themes for SpaceX, which many people, many experts have said,

The idea that we're going to, I mean, we have land on Earth.

“Why are you going to go build a data center on a space station in space that just doesn't”

really make sense? But it might be the kind of story that retail is particularly susceptible to, and some people would say that we're being patronizing to retail investors perhaps, but I mean, let's also consider the fact that 43% of Tesla is owned by retail investors, like retail is the thing that is supporting that extraordinary valuation, and it does appear that they

believe that that is what is going to support this valuation too. I'm maybe just cynical, but I view it as them sort of taking advantage of retail as opposed to offering them an opportunity. Probably the most, you would argue the most, innovative company in the last five or ten years has been in video, and in video is trading at a forward PE of somewhere between

17 and 20, that's a price to earnings. I mean, you made the Google comparison earlier, which I think is a good one because when Google IPO, the company was trading at 10 times trailing revenue, the revenue growth was 240%, you look at SpaceX, which is going public at more than 125 times trailing revenue. The growth is 20%.

So when you think about it, SpaceX's revenue growth is 10 times lower than Google's was when Google IPO'd, and yet the valuation is more than 10 times higher than Google's was when Google went public.

“So the whole thing is kind of flipped on its head here, and the only thing that could”

justify the valuation is if you believe that there's this very, very special future of space and AI and data centers that all comes together in the perfect way, and it's all, I mean, you really, it's just hope, you have to hope that this is going to be a massively successful business. Maybe it will be, but that's a lot of hope in there.

You're putting a lot of faith in his ability to grow these revenues tremendously, $16 billion

in revenue last year, that's not that big, that's not that impressive. A billion dollars in profit, okay, whatever. The valuation's just, it's just too high. And I hear that, of that type of striking insight from you, that the only thought that kind of runs through my mind is that it's hard to believe that I was nominated for three

webbies and you were nominated for zero. Hello, ladies. Watch your shoulders. Watch your shoulders. Hello.

I'm sorry. Yeah. That's fascinating. Yes. You're going to trigger me again, and then I'm going to start getting salty and upset.

You still have time, my brother. When I was 27, I knew, I knew every line from the planet of the Apes and can make a bond at any household item. That was really my accomplishments at that point. You're doing just fine.

Ah, but, you know, I'm getting to that age where you started actually to do some cool stuff. I mean, I'm 27 now. I'm pretty sure that's when you were starting your first company, like we're rubbing up against your, you're glow up period.

Yes. So, I, I take your point. He's doing a lot of work there, it was me, it was me working out of a $280 apartment of rock rich Oakland calling the alumni of, of, ha, saying, I'm a brand strategist, what you hire me.

I know what you told investors. They liked it. They liked you. The final angler on this, on this SpaceX point. If this goes public at $2 trillion and it probably will, Elon will become a trillion

there, he owns more than 40% of SpaceX.

So this would make his stake worth roughly $860 billion, and now, if you look at the odds

on calcium that Elon becomes a trillion air this year, those odds have risen to 75%. That's this year. So basically, he's going to be a trillioner. Some people will say, oh, well, you know, that's not a big deal because of inflation, like what's the inflation adjusted number, I'll just give you some context.

During the Gilded Age, John Rockefeller was worth one and a half percent of U.S. GDP. As a share of GDP, if this goes, if this IPO goes as expected, Elon will be worth more than double that as a share of GDP. So Elon will be the richest guy in history by far on a relative basis as well as being the world's first trillion air.

This is going to make him incredibly rich. What do you make of it?

“I think it's important that we have what feels like outrageous wealth in the United States.”

I think that one of the reasons for you'll come here is that they think there's no ceiling on me. I can, in Germany, you're supposed to stay within your class, you're supposed to have a certain sort of, what are they called, trimming the daisies or whatever. In the U.S., the notion is that anyone can be magnificently wealthy and having, you can

be a billionaire in the United States. I think that's a wonderful thing. And I don't believe in these kind of class wars of assuming that all billionaires are

I think that's unhealthy.

“What's happened, though, is that because of a tax policy that's been weaponized by the”

incumbents, billionaires have been able to pull away and garner a disproportionate amount so much of the proceeds and prosperity that it's creating an anxious and depressed youth. And that is, we talked about this in the last episode. People's mood and feeling about their situation isn't about how they're doing relative to people 50 or 100 years ago.

They do it relative to how they're doing to everybody else. So when you're not accelerating, it's quickly as the top 10%, you feel as if you're falling behind even if you're doing better. And when your Instagram feed is just full of constant reminders of how the point 1% are doing or the 20% with a ring light and how to use Instagram pretending to be the

point 1%. You just feel like you're not keeping up and you feel bad about yourself and you feel bad

“about the country as evidenced by only one in 10.”

Young Americans feel good or very good about America, whereas it's one in two people, my age. And part of that problem is that when you have 26 people who are worth more, now I'm sorry, now it's six people who are worth more than the bottom half of America. And he may be close, worth more than the bottom 40% of America.

The crates, a sense that the system is rigged, a vibe, a vibe, a certainty, an observable pattern. Also, the people in the gilded age, they couldn't turn off battlefield technology and Ukraine or on and switch the trajectory of a global conflict. They didn't have that sort of power and access to technology.

And what's really frightening about this, quite frankly, is that we have essentially wars in the global order can be massively influenced.

There's a decent argument that must with $250 million swung the presidential election.

I actually think Trump would have won without him, because we had a fairly mediocre candidate, but he definitely had a big impact with a quarter of a billion dollars and with a quarter of a billion dollars and weaponizing his platform now.

“What could he do in the next presidential election?”

And if he decides, "I want X or Y," and he said, "I know, I'm worth a trillion dollars. I'll take 2% of my network, 2%, that's $20 billion dollars. That's 80 times more than he spent in the last election." And with citizens united, $2 billion surgically delivered over a platform that, you know, 40% of America's honor, something like that, he could have, and then targeted in the fact

that our electoral system basically has made it such that there are a small number of counties and a small number of states that decide the election. He could just overwhelm him with messaging and money and swing the election.

And so you have essentially the most powerful person in the world is decided by one man.

And battlefield technology can be decided by one man's blood sugar level. And this individual, while being a genius, is someone who has addicted to ketamine, according to the Wall Street Journal, sleeps a little bit again next to his bed and is being sued concurrently by two women for sole custody of that child because he hasn't seen that child. And by the way, I just don't think anyone person, regardless of how wonderful you may think

they are, one of the universal axioms of our species is the power corrupts and an absolute power, absolutely corrupts. And in a capitalist society, money translates to power and it can act at global economy with connectivity to technology that's also controlled by this one person who is not subject to any regulation is not bound by the law, but protected by it can buy off any politician.

If shit gets really real from here, it can piece out to a country with no extradition stat treaties, but likely wouldn't even need to do that because they can buy so many politicians or to land off to skate any sort of civil or criminal prosecution. You effectively have the new leader of the world because presidents are term-limited. Notice how Trump is such an asshole, it must said Trump is in the Epstein Pulse before

any of the files before they came out and Trump didn't say anything mean bad. I mean Trump, Trump is so scared of this guy and he should be because this is the individual now who has greater influence in the medium and long term, President Trump, the president at States has greater influence than anyone in the short run, he can deploy the most successful organization in history in that as the organization that can provide or deliver more

Lee-thality globally than any organization in the history and that's U.S. military. But over the medium and a long term, it's a guy with no term limits, he controls connectivity who's worth the GDP of a small nation and can deploy it strategically for his own desires, blood sugar level or ketamine hallucination. So, at some point, as a total capitalist who believes in people should have the opportunity to get exceptionally wealthy, this level

of income inequality really has become an existential threat, especially when a small group

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Landing Corps. Terms, conditions, and state restrictions apply, CFL6054612, NMLS1121636. [MUSIC] We're back with Profty Markets. Two sneaker brands that opposite ends of the market are both running into trouble. Those brands are Nike and all birds. Nike's shares dropped 16% after warning that sales were declined for the rest of the year, including an

unexpected 20% hit in China this quarter, and internally the frustration is showing CEO Elliott Hill told employees he's quote, "so tired of talking about fixing the business, and wants to shift the focus to driving growth." Then there's all birds, the one's buzziest shoe brand that peaked at a $4 billion valuation. The last week

it sold off its IP for $39 million, after never turning a profit since going public

in 2021. So it's got two different companies in the same space, suffering different problems, but maybe also similar. Just to go through what happened with Nike here, Nike beat on earnings stock plummeted 16%. The big problem was the guidance analyst for expecting that sales would grow next quarter. Nike said that sales would actually decline by up to 4%. Another mention that intro there, the big problem is China, the expected China sales are

going to fall 20% next quarter, and this has just been a horrible few years for Nike, the stock has fallen nearly 70% since 2021. Revenue has fallen every quarter for more than a year, and the stock is now sitting at a nine year low. The valuation is also extremely low at this point trading at

on a price to sales multiple. It's the lowest we've seen for Nike since 2009. So really bad year several years for Nike, and then also really bad for all birds, which everyone was very excited

“about back in 2021. Not everyone, you don't remember a CNN plus show. Not everyone, not everyone,”

yes, we'll go to that. Valuation hit $4 billion in the stock collapses. It's down 99% and they sell

basically what's left at the company, which is the IP for $39 million literal peanuts compared to

what people expected. So maybe we'll start with all birds, because you mentioned not everyone was excited, and that's true. You were not excited. Let's start with your reactions to both of these companies. So just to walk down memory lane, Jeff Sarker called me and said, would you like to do a show on we're doing a subscription streaming platform, CNN plus, would you like to do a show? And I said, yes, and he said, do you want to get our agents involved? Or do you just want to do the deal

directly? And I said to him, I trust you. I think you're generous. You're obviously very good with talent. Just put an offer on the table, and I'm not going to even respond. I'm just going to accept. So it sent me the paperwork. And he did that and he was generous, and I've got a one-year contract. I should have he offered me to you too, but I, you know, I said, no, I don't want to commit anything for longer than a year. And I wish I had. But anyways, he gave me a one-year contract and we started.

I was a call again. I don't remember what was called. It was a call to the profit you show. I don't

“remember what was called. You worked on it. Do you remember what was called? I think it was golden”

that muscle in my list. Oh, no, mercimality. That's right. And anyways, we did it just a brief history. We did it for five or six shows. And Monday night, my producer called me and said, good news. We're now the highest rated hourly show on scene on plus. We were beating out Jake Tapper's book club. And Anderson's show on, you know, you know, who's died in your life. Anyways, that's not funny. That's not funny. But high five's all around. Do you remember I, I think I sent him that's

the share of one same with the number one hourly show on scene on plus. Not sure how excited real were about that. Yeah, which might have been 14 people. We don't know what that meant. Anyways, and then I went San Diego went down to the bar, you know, as I often do. And I woke up the next morning off feeling great as I often do. And and I get from Kara, I'm like, are you all right? And I'm like, what? I'm like, what's wrong? And she goes, you know, you know, and then she

for me the New York Times article, scene on plus being unplugged by the new owners who were angry by Zazlov who wanted to show Jeff. He was on top. So anyways, but the first episode, we did a rundown of these consumer IPOs. And there were three. Warby Parker rent the runway

“and all birds. And I said the only one I liked was Warby Parker. I thought, I think Warby”

Parker's incredible. I think I'm wearing Warby Parker for glasses right now. I think they are

in absolute breakthrough, unlock, in terms of vertical integration, great stores, great manufacturing. And they took a category that was controlled by a monopoly, I feel what it's called, Luxotica, that was every year raising prices fast in inflation. And it was guys like me who were glasses, you end up getting a six or seven hundred pair of glasses and it's happened to me, and then right after you picked them up, leaving them in the cabin the way home. And Warby said,

we can give you 80 or 90 percent of a Tom Ford or an Oliver Peoples' class glasses, pair of glasses for 20 percent of the price, 100 bucks. And so now I go to Warby Parker and I pick up three or four pairs. It's almost like disposable from me. It's been a huge game changer for me. I love what they do. I love the IPO. And by the way, it hasn't performed that well since the IPO. It's flat to down. It's probably been cut in half. Flat to down, flat to down or cut in half.

It's been cut in half. It's not been great. That's been cut in half. But compared to the other two, it's the shines, it's in video because rent the runway. I remember looking at that. Rent the runway was a stupid business. Ignite's idea, but for every dress they rented, they were losing money. So it was kind of the we work of the dress or the clothing rental business. And I was on the board of Urban Outfitters and we all set in a board meeting. And I don't think

I'm, this is an inside baseball at some point. You know, everything gets sunshine. And our viewpoint was, "Wait till they go out of business and we're going to buy them for scrap. They just don't have the scale. They don't have the sourcing, the merchandise thing. They don't have the scale." And every member they signed up for, whatever it was, 200 bucks a year was going to cost them. If you signed up a member for, I forget, I forget where they were charging for $x dollars,

you were going to lose two x. It was we work. It was negative gross margins that got no leverage on

scale. And then finally, all birds was a stupid company. It was a very fashionable product,

folks people in the world. And that is the VC community embrace it. Oh fuck, that's what I want to be. I want to be a 58 year old guy that's slightly overweight who went to Stanford. And it's now washing out founders and thinks that his character and grit are responsible for the American success story. Yeah, that's who I want to be. And then they went out. They took there. I followed the company pretty closely. It was kind of like what restoration hardware did

in the first version. They went outside a bunch of expensive leases that they could never sustain

on forewall unit economics. And slowly but surely it was pretty clear that the thing was going to go to zero. It didn't go to zero as quickly as meant to run away. But there's no IP here. I'm shocked anyone paid anything for this. Maybe it's the newcomer side from people who want to, I don't know, remember the good old days of, I don't know, investing, getting in the series E of Tesla or whatever it is, the people who are wearing the shoes are doing five years ago.

But I will say that's a really good underwear. I do like the underwear. But it never, there's coming never made any sense. It never had the following in the depth of the following of the loyalty. It just was a shitty business, shitty idea. It should have never been public. It should have been way more measured. Should we talk about Nike? Yeah, but I just want to read you one quote from No Mercy, No Malice's from October of 2021. I'll also just note that I was your lead analyst on

this on this last year. I'm going to pat myself in the back too. But here is the quote. It's very good. Our view, October 21, our view quote. All birds organic growth is sputtering and management is buying transitory growth to support the stock price until management can sell. That is essentially what happened here. We were not very excited about this company. Especially compared to the other companies that were going public.

Yeah, it has been a disaster and $39 million for the IP. I mean, they have essentially shut the

business down. Perhaps there are some learnings there on what they got right, what they got wrong.

“I mean, as you point out, they invested pretty heavily in direct consumer, which I think was”

kind of exciting at the time. People were kind of pro direct consumer. But then there was the shift where people realized we're kind of underrating wholesale and the value of wholesale. They didn't really invest anything into those wholesale relationships. They couldn't maintain these stores. And so they cut the number of storefronts in half. And it ended up being a giant disaster, which is a good transition into what's happened with Nike.

Because obviously, the Nike story, Elliott Hill's story has been all about, let's revive our wholesale business. Let's shift a little bit away from the D to C story, which we were really leaning into under the previous CEO John Donahau. But it appears even that isn't really working. So yeah, let's get this here. You have views on what Nike is maybe getting right, but also what it's getting wrong. Like, this is arguably one of the still one of the greatest consumer brands in

the world. I don't care if you're watching a football game in Ghana or badminton in the UK. The Nike brand just has resonance. It means American competitive. You didn't win silver. You lost gold.

“Like, win it any cost. It's an incredible, great product. I think they have a great distribution.”

When we sold L2, I gave a list of the top 12 people to gardener and said, whatever you do hold onto these people within, I don't know, 24 months all of them were gone. And three of the most talented people, Marine Mullen, Ashley Tolbert and Daniel Bailey, who was also my graduate student instructor, way back when went to Nike. And Nike was one of our biggest clients. And they went when I think the stock was at, I don't know, 80 and I went to 120. So good for them.

And now it's back to what 45 or something. The stock is where it was, it's in 2014. Yeah, I think 2017. The stock has been decimated on any, and it looks cheap. I thought it would cheap a month ago. What struck me as strange was Elliott Hill. I've only, I've been in a room. I know Elliott a little bit, not really. It strikes me as a very talented guy. I think he was good from a route. I'll bring an insider back. John Donohol will go down as one of the great

disasters, bringing an attack guide around a brand new company. But Elliott told employees and you said this, he's quote, "so tired of talking about fixing the business." I feel like that's when with my x-wife. If I were to said to her, I'm so sick of talking about valid reasons for my shortcomings. There's a man in a husband. It's like, well, okay, bitch. I bet your board is sick of you talking about it's fixing the business and wants to see some. Because he's now been there.

“It's a little unfair. He's only been there, I think, 15 or 16 months. He should be given three years.”

This is, you know, you're not turning around a speedboat. You're turning around a tank or here. But I think he's got the wrong strategy. I think that... I thought the motor and said something

that always struck me. And that is, we're obsessed with youth. And growth companies never want to

this is a low growth mature company. We need to start returning money to shareholders and managing the cost side more effectively. And Nike is still pumping Botox and fillers into its phase trying to be young again and not recognizing it's a mature low growth company. And the data that struck me was their employment is actually up since 2020. I quite frankly, if I were on this board,

I'd be saying, okay, LA. I get the raw raw speech for the all hands, but the reality is we need to

cut costs by 20% over the next three years here. Because this is a low growth business. We need to obviously reinvigorate the product, try and find pockets of growth. But be clear, we are now in mature company. We are wearing diapers on the wrong end of the age spectrum. We're not a growth company. We are a mature company that needs to manage this company more responsibly. What do I

“mean by that? And no one likes to say this? I think there's going to be five to 20,000 layoffs in the”

next 24 months. Because I believe in activists is going to come in here and say, great brand. Still amazing sales. I mean, the last time their stock was trading at this level, they were doing 25 or 30 billion in sales. Now they're doing 45 billion in sales. But they have margin compression and they aren't growing. And the market hates that. So bottom line, they need to be who they are. They need to acknowledge. They need to do away with the trucker had in the bell bottom jeans and

trying to pretend they're younger than they are. As I said here, trust like an aging skateboarder. And acknowledge there. I'm a sure low growth company and cut costs. And for Elliott to pretend that this is a growth company and they need to reinvigorate growth. Okay, short, the business, short of the brand, fine. But this is, this is now a business about operations and discipline and being the adult in the room and cutting costs dramatically. It's so interesting you say,

this isn't a growth company. One thing that has always struck me on Nike's investor relations home

page, the first thing you see. And this has been the case for years. And I just checked and it still is the case. The first thing you see on the investor relations homepage is giant letters, Nike is a growth company. That's like their main pitch to investors. We're saying we're a growth company. And to your point, it's like, well, definitely you're not because your revenue has fallen every quarter for more than a year at this point. So definitely you are not a growth company. But it is an

interesting thing. And I've always wondered what companies are really supposed to do about this because ask what's point about the corporate life cycle is a very good one, which is, you know,

“companies age over time. And as you age, you need to try to figure out how to act more your age.”

And you don't want to try to pretend that you're a young company like Nike seems to be doing saying

and we're a growth company. But at the same time, it's like, well, you also want to grow. And you also want, especially in a consumer driven business like Nike, you want to look young, you want to look cool, you want to look like the next big thing. And so it's a very difficult thing to balance. And I guess as the brand strategy professor, how would you be balancing that, like, maybe on the corporate level, it's a different thing. But like, they still need to look cool.

This isn't about brand strategy. I think Elliott and his team are outstanding a brand. And I think that I seem to are still working with widened Kennedy. They have some of the brightest brand builders in the world. They're directing consumer strategy. Maybe need to refresh. But I know some of the people running their DTC and they're incredibly talented. This is about, okay, they lost touch with the quote unquote street community. The product needs an upgrade. This is a business issue. This is

this is going through the company. And unfortunately, saying, all right, we have, I think it's 55,000 employees. We need to do 90% of the revenue with 30,000. And I think they could get there. I think there's probably, this is what happens when you're a growth company. You keep eating, you keep eating,

“you build up fatty cells all around the company, all around the corpus. And I think that's what's”

happened here. And it's not romantic. But I think what they should be telling investors is we're going to grow EBITDA 12 to 15% a year for the next five years. And this is how we're going to do it to a combination of efficiencies, which is Latin for cost cutting, which is Latin for layoffs. And having solid, if unremarkable growth. And that would be quite frankly, that's going to be, I mean, the good news, that's going to be easier than trying to find new pockets of growth for a

company that doesn't have the same cashier as some of these smaller niche brands like a hook or or an on running. So this is entirely the wrong strategy from a shareholder standpoint. All these Tom Salakas, an example. Do you know who Tom Salakas? Yeah. This is one of the most handsome men of the last millennium. Tom Salak, Magnum PI. This guy, and by the way,

except he looks much better in shorts than I do. How do you know his weight?

I was obsessed with Tom Salak. This guy is the baller dude. He was the honorary captain of the U.S. volleyball team in like 1988 or 92. Great actor, handsome, nice man. I just, I think married once, I think this guy's a great role model from masculinity. Anyway, jover friar on Hawaii is a private detective. Not a great TV show, but anyways, at some point, like at some point,

“even Tom Salak has to stop wearing shorts. At some point, Nike, you have to stop wearing shorts.”

You're not a growth company. You aren't. And if you keep, take your lips off the fucking crack pipe. Elliott, you are a fiduciary for shareholders and for your employees.

And 10 or 20,000 people, Nike, have been laid off. They just don't know it yet.

So what you want to do is figure out whether efficiencies in this company. Be as generous as possible with those people who probably don't need to work at a company that's going to go sideways for the next 10, fucking years, pretending to pump a bunch of bowtocks in its face and pretend we're young again and start cutting costs and rationalizing this business and waking up to the notion that you are a now. You are no longer a teenager. You are a baby boomer and this can be,

this can be a great investment. And whether you want to do that or not, someone's going to force you to do it because this thing is becoming obviously overweight and needs to cut costs and have

and look in the mirror and go away. I'm not 18 any longer. So I have, Elliott is the right guy.

“I think for probably the brand and product. Someone on the board and Elliott need to get together”

and say, we're paid to be adults. It is time to, we should be the front of our investor page or say, it should say, growing EBITDA, growing earnings, growing shareholder value and in about fucking about four hours with AI and some information, I could put together an investment deck that would take the stock up 10% by talking about how we're going to increase EBITDA 10 to 15% a year for the next three to five years through by keeping revenues flat, but dramatically cutting

expenses. And by the way, for every dollar and expenses you cut, it's kind of the same as getting six or seven dollars in incremental revenue because if you have operating margins or say you have operating margins of 15 or 20% cutting expenses by a dollar has the same impact on the bottom line as five dollars in incremental growth, which do you think is easier in a company like this? I bet there is fat fucking everywhere at Nike right now. They may enough feel like it. They've

gone through some layoffs and they feel like it's hard. They have no idea the employees that in Portland, what's coming because an activist is going to show up and say, I'm yet this thing to 70 bucks by just telling the CEO, if he doesn't start acting like a fucking grown up, I'm going to boot him and the board. I'm going to come after him and the board. I haven't looked at the class structure of the shares yet. I don't know if it's a two-class share company or a

film might still controls it, but this is a 70, this is a $70, $80 stock if there's just an adult in the room. Time to get our activists hats on, time to launch a take over, I'll still take a

“gateway computer. That's what I'll say to you as we end this gateway. My weakest flex in history.”

Well, I was on the board of gateway computer. And you with a number one show on CNN plus for the few weeks that it existed. So that's the other. That's right. That's the head of the brag. Okay, let's take us back into the week ahead. We will see the minutes from the Federal Reserve's last meeting. We'll also see inflation data from the personal consumption expenditures index for February and also the consumer price index for March. Scott, any predictions? I've already made it and I've

made it over and over. Activist Nike, adult in the room. 80 bucks. We're a 45, what do you say? 70, 80? What's your target? It depends if, you know, when they put the crack by down and acknowledge, and they look in the mirror and go, oh, wow, sucks to be at grown up. I need to be at grown up. I'm going to keep revenues flat. I'm going to cut costs four to six percent a year for the next three years. I'm going to increase you, but the easy low double due to it's every year.

This episode was released by Clay Miller and Alson Weiss and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our video editor is Jorge Carty. Our research team is Dan Chilon, Isabella Kinzel,

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End of the night.