Why Americans Earning $500K a Year Still Feel Broke

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That's the five-year percentage increase in Google searches for the phrase "how to looks Max." However, the new geo-location data shows that the number was skewed by a large volume of searches for number one observatory circle, also known as the vice president's house. Welcome to Prof. Markets.

I'm Adelson. It is May 6th. Let's check in on yesterday's market vitals. The major indices rose and the S&P 500 hit a fresh high after the U.S. said Iran had not broken the ceasefire.

Despite Monday's direct hostilities, Brent Prude fell as fears at the war would reignite eased. Treasury yields fell and finally Samsung stock rose 5% while Intel stock jumped 13% to an all-time high. Those rallies came on reports that Apple might enlist the companies

to build chips for its devices in the U.S. Okay, what else has happened? Goldman Sachs just uncovered a concerning fact about America.

In a survey, roughly 40% of households earning more than half a million dollars a year

say they are living paycheck to paycheck. That is a higher share than households making between $50 and $100,000 a year, 36% of those households say the same. Now, there is a debate about what this stat actually means, which we will get into,

“but it does raise a very important question, which is how much money do you actually”

need to feel economically secure? So to dig into this question, we're going to do something a little different today. We're not going to focus on the news per se, but we are going to focus on this survey. And we're going to speak with two really excellent guests to break this down. We are speaking with Ben Colson, director of institutional asset management at

Rick Holt's wealth management, and also the author of the forthcoming book, Risk and reward, and also our friend, Ramit Seity, host of Netflix is how to get rich. They're selling author and host of the money for couples podcast. Ben and Ramit, thank you so much for joining me on the show here. Ben, I'm going to start with you because I know you've written about this.

You've talked about this on your own podcast. I mean, this data is just quite striking. The fact that you've got people making more than $500,000 a year, 40% of them say they're living paycheck to paycheck, I'd also add people who are making $300 to $500,000 a year. They say the same thing, 41% of them say they're living paycheck to paycheck.

Really striking data, let's just get your initial reactions. Where to begin? The personal finance people will look at this and say, "See, I told you, life style creep." These people, it doesn't matter what you make, it's what you keep and what you spend.

But I also think that, in a lot of ways, sentiment is completely broken these days.

“And you have to watch what people do and not what they say.”

And I think that the definition of what paycheck to paycheck actually means for people is totally distorted depending on how much money you have and how much money you're in. So I just go with the definition that they gave us in the survey. The definition of paycheck to paycheck according to the government survey was quote, "I find it tough to make progress on any long-term financial goals.

Remate, what do you make of that definition? I'm what do you make of the data?"

In personal finance, there are two things you should never trust Americans about.

Number one, how much do you spend on groceries? They have no clue, but they really believe they know it. And number two, the question, "Are you living paycheck to paycheck?"

Yes, I live paycheck to paycheck to, after I max out my 401k, I max out my HSA, I pay a $1,250 per month payment for my F350 and put aside money for my upcoming three vacations. Observe, nobody knows what that actually means and so we have as Ben put it. We have basically our sentiment is broken. We go by vibes and once anybody of essentially any income level,

here's the word paycheck to the brain short circuits and they just go, "Yep, that's me too." Yeah, just looking at the other options that you could have picked, if you were pulled in this survey. There were two other options. One of them was, so the question was, "How would you describe the financial situation?"

One of them was, "I live paycheck to paycheck." The other was that it moderately improves each year and the definition of that was, "I am able to make some saving progress each year." And then the other option was considerably better and the definition of that was, "I am able to make progress on both short term and long-term financial goals."

So that word doesn't mean anything to Americans. The word financial goals, you might as well say, "How many photons are in your room right now?" It's irrelevant. That's not how people operate and affect the financial media continues to use words like goals. What are your goals?

Again, the minute people hear that they shift into this mode. While I probably should save more. That's not how people talk about money or think about money. The fact that we are still doing this really speaks to how out-of-touch the financial press and the financial industry is with the average American.

Ben Regigree? Yes, I also think that there is something in the financial media that's figured out if we put a stat out like this, the rage bait, we're going to get people really angry about it.

“And I think that there's something to that where you...”

I got us. Yes, it's true. And I also think that there's just this idea that I think social media has a big component of this. The funny thing is, like wealth inequality obviously is a problem for people. The top 10% controls like 70% of the wealth in this country.

If you go back to the guilty age, like the early 1900s, the top 5% control like 90% of the money.

So it was, we've, wealth inequality has always been a problem, but back then you didn't have like a Rockefeller

in Vanderbilt tweeting all day, and showing their houses and showing their private jets. And so I also think that the goal posts have shifted so much with people that they don't know how to answer these things correctly. Because social media has like opened the communal for so many people that they don't really understand what wealth means to them, that their relative basis of keeping up with the Jones is so out of

a whack from what it was in the past. Right. I think this gets to something, which I'm going to kind of push back on you both. Because in a lot of ways, I wonder if it doesn't matter what the definition is, because what the survey is basically telling us is that it's how people feel.

“And that's what we're trying to get an understanding of.”

How do people actually feel about their financial situation? Whether or not they're doing okay, I can tell you, if you're making half a million dollars, I'm pretty sure you're doing okay, but the thing that strikes me, and it gets to your point about social media ban, is that it's the way people feel about that money.

It's the fact that despite the fact that you are in the highest income bracket by a long shot, you still don't feel that good about it. When you're asked the question, no matter what the definition of the survey questions are, what the answers are, you're kind of just choosing the most negative one. And I guess that gets to this question of like, is there ever an amount of money

that makes you feel good or at least not bad?

And this seems to tell me that for 40% of people, the answer is kind of no.

What do you make of that then? I love the opinion that financial advisors love to say, just figure out what enough means for you, and then you'll be happy for the rest of your days. And I don't think that that amount exists for any individual person or household, because I think the goal plus can move and it probably should move for most people.

If you make more money, like you shouldn't introduce lifestyle creep, most personal finance experts do you know, don't ever spend any more money,

“never enjoy anything, but I think you should have some lifestyle creep.”

And it's funny because it's probably bad at the individual level, but better for society, that no one is ever really content with what they have. It's like what pushes us towards progress and innovation in these things, but it also is what makes people never satisfied. And I think once people reach their goals, if they have a goal in mind,

they get there and then they realize, oh man, I feel the same. I don't feel any different at all. I said, if I make half a million dollars, my life is going to be easy.

I'm never going to have to worry again, but I still have all the same worries and nothing changed.

Yeah, this seems to be the thing that, that's my takeaway at least from this survey at it, it's honestly a little concerning. Remi, you've consulted with lots of different households across the entire spectrum of income,

Yes, and I think it's, I'm not particularly interested in asking people how they feel about money

at large in America because the answers are always wrong.

Why ask a question where the answer is only going to get you bad data? And think about it, we are the product of the media that we consume. As Ben pointed out, the media loves to dial people up, get them feeling worse, and then enact whatever policies they are trying to enact.

“So when it comes to actual mastering your money, there's two parts you need to do.”

Number one, you need to know your numbers. The average American does not know their numbers, 50% of the people I speak to do not know their own household income. It's a running joke on my podcast. I will invite them on every week.

We look at their income, I go, "Did you know that number?" They do not know. If they don't know their income, are we seriously expecting them to feel good about money, to do Monte Carlo calculations absurd? The second thing they need to do beyond knowing their core four numbers is they need to master

their money psychology. Unfortunately, this is not taught. It's also highly undervalued by people. Money psychology, no one's going out there to pay to learn how to do it. They don't think it's that important, but that's also part of the reason they feel bad about

money, mostly for their entire lives.

Do you think that those people who are making all of a million dollars a year

and saying that that paycheck to paycheck? Do you think maybe they don't know what their income is? Do you think that could be it as well? That's part of it. Again, they're no different.

If you earn money, doesn't mean you know your income. But in the same way that if we ask a toddler,

“do you think it's fair how much candy you're allowed to eat?”

And they're like, no, if you ask the average person, hey, do you feel you live paycheck to pay that? Just like, yes, I treat it the same, blah, blah, blah, you want more candy? Okay, say what you need to say. That doesn't mean we're going to give you more candy.

We need to, yes, take more responsibility for our own money, of course. But the average person is now being fed this machine of information that is designed to make them feel bad and keep clicking. What do we expect? I guess the question then becomes like, what are we supposed to do about it?

I mean, if we're living in a society where even if you make $300 to $400 to $500 plus $1,000 a year, and you still feel kind of shitty about the situation, then I feel like the society doesn't really work anymore, at least it doesn't work in the way it was supposed to.

I mean, this is what's supposed to be looking at the surveys and learning life gets better. You improve the more money you make. And I guess I'm starting to think like, what are we supposed to do about this? I mean, is it, is this a social media problem?

Do we need to stop looking at social media? Do we need to stop reading these surveys? I mean, Ben, what are we supposed to, I guess, take away from this data? So in the wealth management industry, the biggest question everyone wants answered. Regardless of how much money they have saved,

how big their portfolio is, am I going to be okay? If I make this decision, am I going to be okay?

If I buy this second home, if I buy this new convertible,

if I take my family on a trip around the world, whatever it is, am I going to be okay? And that's the one that's hardest to answer. Because you're everyone's dealing with the same unknown future. All the variables, what's going to happen?

It's stock market, what's going to happen with the next election and inflation, and all these things, no one knows. And that's the hardest part is finding someone else out there to make you feel comfortable enough. And I don't know if that's a spouse or friend for some people,

it's a financial advisor. But that's the thing that people have the hardest time with. And the hard part is with the more money you make, the more rich people you hang out with. So you stop feeling rich anymore.

Even though by any objective measure, you're in the top 1% of the 1% or whatever, you still won't might not feel rich. Because, well, geez, I fly first class, but the person down the street flies private.

All right, I'm not rich. And so that's the hard part is trying to figure out how to just move your goalpost a little instead of moving them a lot. Yeah, it's interesting just looking at the chart, there is a sweet spot based on this data,

which is $200 to $300,000 a year, only 16% of those households or those people say that they are living paycheck to paycheck, which is the lowest of any group. It makes me wonder, like, maybe there is a sweet spot.

Maybe there is an amount of money where you're not really on this hedonic treadmill. You don't feel that you're so much in the rat race, but also you're comfortable enough to feel good about your situation. Maybe, I mean, for me, is there a sweet spot?

No. No.

“How many hugs do you need to give your partner”

in order to let them know that you love them? Is it two, is it 20, is it 32 per day? I mean, come on, quantifying this is totally absurd. And actually talking about these surveys is also absurd. We might as well throw out a survey that says,

"Remete Saiti is too handsome for the internet.

You might as well, it's actually more relevant than this. But when it comes to what are you supposed to do, yeah, you do need to work on improving your relationship. Just today, I have an episode on my podcast of a couple. They, he won't buy a new office share.

He's had his chair for like 15 years. It's aching his back. She has holes in her pants. And they are so struck by ultra frugality by scarcity. I work with them, I talk to them.

There's lots of reasons they feel that way. Eventually, I show them if they stop investing today. Never add another cent. At retirement, they'll have nine million dollars. This is quite common.

Common in the sense that almost nobody knows what they're going to have, even at age 65, which is a very simple math calculation. And it was shocking. That insight alone, that all of us spend our entire life's

worrying about money, but never run a couple of basic calculations.

That's just the first step. You got to know your numbers. Then you got to stop trying to quantify your feelings. It doesn't work working on your feelings directly. And your relationship with money.

“That's the only way to actually heal it.”

Yeah. It is funny, add your, your question about quantifying it. So we have like these different breakpoints for our firm in terms of the clients we work with. So there's the people who make who have less than a million dollars up to five million. And then there's the people who have five to 10 million, 10 million up and then like 20 million

up is you know, ultra high net worth. And I've talked to our advisors about this. And I say, who are the clients who have like the least amount of stress? Because at a certain point, money becomes more of a responsibility than a stress.

And they say the sweet spot is somewhere in like the five to 10 million dollar range for

wealth management clients. Because it's enough money where you know you're going to be okay. But you don't have enough money where people are constantly trying to reach in your pockets and make you do something and give money away or help them out. And so we've actually talked about this.

It's like, what is the least stress value? But if you talk to those people, they're not going to think that. That's the hard part. They're going to say, no, no, no, no, I want to be on that next level. I want to have more responsibility.

So that's, that's like the really tricky part is like you think you have this, this narrow down like this is the the perfect number. And then you get there and you know, no way, that's not, no, I need more. It's got to be more. Right.

“It sort of brings up the question of like, what is even the ultimate goal when it comes to money?”

Because I mean, you know, we know that how we, we rank different countries based on GDP. And you know, US is number one, but then we also have happiness rankings. And of course, America continues to fall in those rankings. But you also bring up an interesting one, then, which is like maybe your metric is your level of stress. Maybe that's the thing that we're trying to gauge.

I guess for both of you are outstart with your immediate, like, what is the ultimate goal when we're talking about money? What are we even trying to achieve when we talk about money? This is the question because the goal of money is not to save it. It's certainly not to hoard it. I believe the goal of money is to use it to live a rich life. The reason that so many people are living in a spreadsheet, comparing themselves to their neighbors,

is that they don't actually have a vision of a rich life. I ask them 85% plus of people who I ask that question to say the same answer to me. I want to do what I want, when I want. I go cool.

What do you want? They just blink. They've never thought about it.

Working 40-50 hours a week, listening to all podcasts, never thought about what they want. And I push them. I really push them. I never accept them just saying travel. I want to know what airline seat, what are they going to be seeing, what's it going to smell like, what hotel who they're taking? When you start to have a beautiful crisp vision that is perfectly unique for you, then you start to use your money in a way that lets you live it. It can be luxurious. It can be simple.

That's up to you. But if you don't have that and you're not actually using your money for certain specific money dollars, it's just a theoretical abstract number and of course you never have enough. Ben, do you find that with your clients? I mean, do you find this sort of dynamic of that kind of hoarding and saving, waiting for the thing and then it's not even clear what that thing actually is?

“That is a problem that I never expected to happen, that you have to force people with money to”

spend it. Some of our advisors, when I first joined the firm ten years ago, said, we have to have conversations with our clients and give them permission to spend their money and enjoy it. Take that vacation, give that money to your child so they can be better off. And you have to tell them you're going to be okay if you spend this money because people develop habits over 30 or 40 years and it's safe, safe, save, get the nest egg bigger and bigger and bigger when it's time to turn it off and they

have no more income left and to spend it down, they see the portfolio value go down and money, like they see their principally roting, they can't handle it. So that's actually a huge problem which, I mean, first world problems obviously, but there are a lot of baby boomers out there right now,

they think what if I outlive the money, what if something really bad happens and there's a market crash or whatever it is and they need permission and that's the hard part is you spend all your life saving and saving and saving and saving. What's the point of delaying the gratification if you're not going to be gratified at some point? Right. Yeah, I wonder if, I mean, understanding might even be a larger problem in America than over spending, like, if,

maybe not based on savings rates, but it is a problem nonetheless. It is a really, I agree with Ben, it is a big problem and it's largely intractable in my opinion. The people who I speak to, who are hardcore, frugal will not spend, you know, they have a number that they will not exceed,

they almost never change. It is really, really difficult. The math does not affect them. It's an

identity. Yeah, you're fighting decades of habits, right? Yeah. Even generations, their grandma may have said something that their mom repeated 25,000 times and then they grew up. So they have millions sometimes or hundreds or just more than they need. They don't, they can't internalize that.

“So I, I think Ed, it is a serious problem. I do think over spending is a human problem.”

But understanding is under disgust. Stay tuned for more of this panel off to the break. And by the way, we are heading out on tour at the end of the month. So for more info, I'm to get tickets to a show near you, head to propertymarkets tool.com. Support for the show comes from LinkedIn. It's a shame when the best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong audience. Like, imagine running an ad for catararch surgery on Saturday

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“platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch.”

So why not you? Try Odo for free at odo.com. That's OdoO.com. We're back with pro-fg markets. Then you point out some of this data in your article about where you broke down this survey. You pointed out that the share of

Americans who say that financial situation is getting worse has never been higher. It's at 55%.

And it's quite striking that it's coincides with these consumer sentiment surveys we've just seen, which just hit their lowest levels ever, or at least in the history of recording consumer sentiment. This is the University of Michigan survey. And yet, when you do look at the underlying data, the situation isn't that everyone's doing great in America, but it's certainly not the case that everyone's doing worse off from a purely numbers perspective right now than they were

at previous times during depressions, during recessions. I mean, we look at the unemployment rate. We do know that wages are growing. Yes, inflation is growing too, and it's very tight. But this isn't the worst time ever, but people feel that way. And so I guess the question I

in the past couple of years say? Because that seems to be where it's started to get really bad. Well, the pandemic is the biggest one, obviously. If you look at, they do these annual happiness readings. And from 1970 to 2020, it was up and down a little bit, but essentially the same. And then

it falls off a cliff in the pandemic, and it has never come back. So I actually think this is going

to send a weird to say it's a sign of progress, because in the, we didn't go through world wars in depressions and such, and these things that people in the past were more used to dealing with.

“And I think that shot to the system that we had. It's like, oh my gosh, this thing that we thought”

this only happened in history books. I think it's actually a sign of progress that were the legalogies that become necessities to us. And we are, I don't want to say we're more pampered than the past, but things are a little easier for us than they were for previous generations. And I think that shot to the system was something that we as a society were not equipped to deal with. And now we're seeing aroundifications of that that has completely changed the sentiment readings

and thrown them off so much that it's hard to trust them anymore.

But what, what is the pandemic set in that? Because you're right, it does seem as though the pandemic happened. It suddenly reset expectations on everything. But I'm not sure exactly why that necessarily means that suddenly we feel worse about everything. Like, on the one hand, I would also think that maybe we feel better. We went through this crazy year. We suddenly learned the beautiful nature of getting together with people. We started to appreciate things. But that's

“not what happened. I guess what do you think? What do you think might have happened?”

I think it's really hard to avoid the fire hose of negativity these days. Yeah. And I'm personally a glass as a full person. And it's hard to be optimistic when there's so much

negativity that surrounds everything these days. And part of it is everything is politicized and there's

politics and there's social media and all these things. And I just, I'm not sure that our brains have evolved enough to deal with that. I don't think enough people have a filter in place to know what to pay attention to and what to ignore. I think that's really, really hard on your psyche when you're constantly just bombarded with all the bad stuff that happens. In the past, bad stuff happened all the time too. But people didn't hear about it. And I read on a 24/7 basis with alerts

from their phones all the time. Right. It does seem that a lot of this has to do with social media. The fact that we're just getting sprayed the wealth point in our faces constantly. I wonder if maybe during the pandemic we were on our phones. I may be at reset our expectations.

“For me, have you noticed this in the people that you speak with? Yes. And I think that there is”

one large cause, which is housing. Housing everything in America is downstream of housing because as we know in America, the number one religion is home ownership. I'm not going to get into my whole thing about is that right or wrong. But I want to say this. The housing prices are historically high. It certainly doesn't help to have a bunch of boomers out here saying when I was young, we had a 17% entry. Yeah, your house cost 50 grand. If you run the math, it's historically

expensive and wages simply have not kept up with housing. People are mad. Although they don't understand the direct connections between things like prop 13 and California housing prices, they know something is wrong. It shouldn't be this hard to not only buy a house, but even rent a house. It is difficult, near impossible in the neighborhoods that I live in. It looks like a geriatric facility because young people can't afford it. It's crazy. And we have more and more

resources going to people in retirement versus young people, family formation, etc. So when you look at that, you go, look, this is really bad. There's no possible way for us to ever buy a house. We can barely afford to rent it. And we're working two incomes in a household. This is really difficult. So housing is a policy choice. It's not just an accident that housing is expensive. It is a policy choice that we have made to allow nimbees and these people who were homeowners to not

allow housing to be built. That makes people mad as it should. It's one of the reasons that I talk about, not just personal responsibility, but also structural reform. And until we fix that, people are going to be rightfully pissed off. Yeah. So piggybacking on that, in our own community, they're talking about having smaller classroom sizes and even doing away, having some layoffs that are local schools. We live in a pretty good school system. And I was asking a question,

why is it that enrollment is down so much? Is it just a demographic problem? They say, no, people can't afford to live in this area anymore. And families who used to live here to fill the schools are not able to do that anymore. So I agree, they're me. It's one of these things where just because of bad luck, if you didn't buy a house before 2021, in clocking the lower prices in the lower rates, through no fault of your own, you're now just boxed out of it. This necessity

situation. Like, I didn't, there's nothing I did to make this happen. What did I do?

Yeah, yeah, just to support this point, housing prices in America rose 50% between 2020 and 2025, that is the same increase that we saw in the 16 years prior to 2020. So, I mean, I think that's certainly part of this. And, you know, it gets this thing that I often hear about my generation, Gen Z, where, you know, I'll often go to people and say that we've been kind of screwed in various ways, specifically economically, and often the responses, well, the standard of living has been raised.

You can afford things. You can afford door dash and you can, you know, Uber eats a burrito to your house and your grandparents weren't able to do that. And this is sort of similar to the kind of the rhetoric that we heard for the millennials, which is like, all the millennials are buying their lattes and that avocado toast. Can't be that bad. But I wonder if the real problem here, the real scarcity, is that, well, yes, people can afford things. They can't afford meaningful things.

They can't afford a home. They can't afford the things. They can't afford to live in a community where they feel that they can raise a family and build a real base and build a real, build real wealth in the way that, I guess, other generations did. I wonder if that is the problem that it's this death of not necessarily basic necessities, but a death of

“meaning. And that's why people are so upset. I guess, roommate, do you think that might be right?”

I think there's an element of truth in that. I do think, you know, we've seen there was a book bowling alone in the early 2000s. And if you look at the examples in that book of what the worst case might be of how people spend their time alone as opposed to in churches and community groups, it's actually five times worse, only 25 years later. So, yes, there is a lack of that community meaning for sure. But we have to understand, that's not just that Americans have become

lazier or more entitled. That doesn't happen in 25 or 30 years. Structurally, if you cannot afford a home, you have to move further and further away. That means you're driving hours to work. That means your schools closed. That means you're taking more of your money and putting it straight into rent. Again, why? Because older, typically older homeowners are preventing any new housing from being built. So, we got it. Yes, there's probably a lack of meaning. And yeah, maybe people

are spending a little bit more in door-dash. We didn't exist 25 years ago. But in terms of housing, the primary thing that is driving so much of the angst around financial finances. These are policy choices. They're not accidental. Other countries have different policy choices and you can afford

housing. So, if we want to fix how people feel about money, we first and foremost have to fix housing.

Yeah, Ben, we'll just start to wrap up here. But for the people listening who relate to this survey data, no matter how much you make for the people feeling like I feel kind of paycheck to paycheck, I feel like I'm not really building for my long-term goals. What advice would you give them? What kind of advice do you give to your clients? Yeah, it's a combination of numbers and emotions.

“Because part of it is, as Remeet said, most people don't track this stuff. I think you have to have”

a good sense of what your net worth actually is. What is this income turning into for you? If you're max at your 401(k) and your HSA and your Roth IRA, and you make a lot of money, then you're not really leaving paycheck to paycheck. You're paying yourself. So, I think you have to understand like, what is this money doing for me? Where am I at? Where am I at today? Right. And then it gets into the emotional stuff, how am I feeling? And then Remeet said, like, a lot of people's goals are just

out here in the clouds. You have to have an actual definition of what what it is you're trying to do with your money. It's not just traveling. It's when my going to do this, how who the people I'm going to spend time with, do I want to keep working longer? All these different things that I think people have to figure out. And then obviously you have to understand the fact that your goals and

“desires can and will change over time. Yeah. So, I think you have to understand yourself and what the”

money, money, emotions mean to you. Because obviously it means different things to different people. Some people can be perfectly content with a much lower income. So, a lot of it is, like, looking yourself in the mirror and thinking like, what is it? What are the things that really matter to me? Right. Remeet, oh, I'll end with the same question to you. The most boring people that I ever encounter are wealthy people who deny that they are wealthy.

And I never let them get away with it. I make that I'm middle class. Exactly. Oh, I'm comfortable.

Really? You're rich. Say it. And I make them say it on camera. I make them say nothing more boring in America than somebody trying to play small. It's actually great to acknowledge. I've worked hard.

Maybe I don't quite know what my rich life is. Okay. I'm going to embark on a journey to figure

that out solo with a partner, with my children, whatever. But to simply say, I'm playing smaller than I can, that's a tragedy. If, on the other hand, you do not have enough money. If you're not

“secretly wealthy, then, as Ben said, you got to know your numbers. You need to know your 4 key numbers.”

You need to set aside a certain amount. We can even start at $50 a month, start putting it aside in investments, run a calculation to see how much that will turn into. It's actually shocking. How time can work on your side, even if you are starting a little later in life. And that is the way that you start to make progress and then accelerate that progress. Then Carlson, director of institutional asset management, that holds wealth management,

author of the new book, "Risk and reward", which I believe is out next week. Is that right, Ben? We can today, yep. We're from today. All right, go get that book. "Risk and reward and

“remit safety, host of Netflix is how to get rich. They're selling wealth and host of the money”

for couples, podcasts, which is one of my favorite podcasts." Ben and remit really appreciate this. Thank you for joining me. Thank you. Okay, that's it for today. We appreciate you joining us for another Proxy Markets panel. If you have a guest that you think we should speak to, please drop us a line in the comments or email our producer Claire at

[email protected]. We hope to hear from you. This episode was produced by Claire Miller and Alison Weiss, edited by Joel Passen and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our video editor is Brad Williams. Our research team is Danchlan, Isabella Kinsel, Christina Donahue and Mia Solverio and our social producer is Jake McPherson. Thank you for listening to Proxy Markets from ProxyMedia. If you liked what you heard,

give us a follow. I'm Ed Alison. I will see you tomorrow. With Finn, we've built a number one AI agent for customer service. It solves up to 90 percent of queries for businesses. Top saw the performance benchmarks and the G2 leader board

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