Bioweapons and Lyme Disease with Kris Newby

and the origins of Lyme disease, and the origins of the Tick and Festation of several

Tick and Festations around our country. And my guest is Chris Nuby, who is an award-winning medical science writer and senior producer of the Lyme disease documentary under our skin, which premiered

“at the Tribeca Film Festival, and was a 2010 Oscar semi-finalist. Her book bitten the secret history”

of biological weapons and Lyme disease as one three international book awards for journalism and narrative on fiction. She has two engineering degrees and has worked as a science technology writer for Stanford Medical School, for Apple, and for other Silicon Valley companies. And Chris has spent two decades studying Lyme disease after she herself contract in Lyme disease, and has spent a lot of time studying the Plum Island lab. And so welcome to the show, Chris. Thank you very much,

and I'm excited about talking to you about this. By the way, there's another terrific book by Michael Carol, who spent himself, and very, very excellent book on the origins of Lyme disease, and on Plum Island, and the other other disease that may or may not, but that are likely to come from Plum Island,

“including West Nile virus and a bunch of other diseases that are associated with that area around”

Long Island and Connecticut. So anyway, let's talk about it. Let's talk about your experience, and then what you found on, you know, in your research about my life and about the Dickens Estation. Yeah, so it started with my family getting Lyme disease. My husband and I, and then I took a year, and what year was that? 2002 Massachusetts was number two for Lyme disease.

So my husband and I got really sick for a year. It took ten doctors and $60,000 to finally get a

diagnosis, and then it took five to six years to get better. And while I was recovering, I decided to do a documentary on Lyme disease, the patient experience, and also the politics and the money that's sort of corrupted the, of testing and the treatment of the disease. And while the

“director and I were researching, we filmed for about three and a half years, we realized like,”

what a huge epidemic all across the United States, it is, and how there was something that was not the same as other diseases. There were things that were suspicious, like the government was trying to hide something about the disease. So we did the documentary, I did really well in the documentary world, and it really was the first documentary that showed the patient experience. Patients being gas lit about their symptoms, telling him it's all in their head, psychosomatic.

After that was done, I thought, well, I'm done with Lyme disease. I got this really good science writing, job at Stanford, and I said, I'm done, but then two things happened where I just

knew I couldn't walk away from the problem, because there were always rumors after the

Michael Carroll book that something was off about Lyme disease. There was rumors of bio weapons. But we couldn't find proof, and it was a no-touch subject, and we would never get funding on our documentary if we did bio weapons. And then two things happened within about a month, and one was that a documentary in filmed Willie Bergdorfer, who was the discoverer of Lyme disease, who admitted on camera that he didn't tell the truth about the discovery,

that there was another organism when he investigated the outbreak of sickness, and he was told to cover it up. And then the other thing is I was at a random birthday family birthday party, and when I was there, a drunk guy who said he was a CIA black ops guy said, he just talked about all the horrible things he did Vietnam, and then he said, the weirdest thing I ever did was drop two boxes of poison ticks, infected ticks, on Cuban sugar cane workers in 1962. Payback for the

Bay of Pigs, Fiasco. So when I heard those two things, it was like a fork in the road, well, I can either go, I was healthy apply then, and I can go back to my old life, or I need to see this to the end, because really it's a crime against humanity if what he said was true. So that started another five-year project looking into the tick weaponization program that our U.S. government ran during the 50s and 60s.

You know, let me just interject some of my own story here, because I spent a lot of my life

in the woods. So I was in the woods, and Duchess County is a 14-year-old boy in 1969 through

1970, almost every day, spending three hours in the woods, I never ran into a deer tick. Never saw

deer tick. We saw a lot of wood ticks, a never saw deer tick, and then I moved to Westchester in 1983 after I ate it in the odd, you know, away from the highest valley, and because I trained Hawks, I was in the woods almost every day, and I started getting large, if I'm finding these deer ticks, which are much smaller, you know, the size of a binhead, some of them, and even smaller

“dirt and certain parts of the year. And I remember one time standing in the bathtub naked,”

making deer ticks off myself. I found 29 deer ticks on myself in one batch head. I would run into nest of them, and they would just be all over me. My son got Lyme disease, Bobby, and his face was paralyzed for almost a year. He had bells policy from disease. My other kids almost all gotten Lyme disease, various levels of sickness. I have one child that is chronic Lyme disease now, that is given him brain fog, you know, among other things, my really intense brain fog, and it's very smart

kid, but it's really caused them problems. And then I got Lyme disease, I'm, you know, I'm I tested positive for Lyme disease. I got the Lyme disease from one of these ticks early on,

“and I got it. I got the classic target on my forearm at red, perfect red circle. And so I knew what”

it was. I immediately went and took out a lot of X and as you point out in your book, it's pretty easy

to treat the disease if you get it very early on. And I never have gotten sick from Lyme disease. I

tested positive for it. I'm sure I've been re-infected numerous times. I don't even know if the, if the Lyme disease, if one exposure to it immunizes you, it gets to other exposures. But, you know, I'm lucky that I haven't gotten sick. Almost all of the falconers my group with the nuts and alley have serious problems now with brain fog. And with other symptoms of Lyme disease, you know, including one who has early dementia that I suspect is connected, but, you know, there's

“no way of knowing. But, young, young people who are even younger than me, but all the guys who are”

my age have problems from it. And it's, you know, I remarked to somebody the other day that it's really ruined going into the woods on the east coast. You know, I grew up in the woods. And it's

now dangerous to go into woods. You're taking a risk that we never had to take when we were kids.

And that it's another thing that keeps us from enjoying the outdoors and keeps us locked inside. And the idea that this may have been is highly likely to have been a military weapon. And we can not say 100% for sure. But we do know that they were experimenting with ticks there and that the ticks, as you show, are a epidemic because of what happened in Plum Island and the other labs. Dear ticks and other species of ticks, loans are ticks wherever we also know they were experimenting

with diseases of the kind of white-blind disease at that lab. And they were putting them in ticks and then infecting people, testing them with bird vectors, etc. And I've just published a book called Wuhan Coverup, which is a very, very comprehensive history of the bio-weapons program in this country. And the bio-weapons program was brought over here originally as the first project of the CIA, which was called Operation Paperclip. That was the first project in 1947, the CIA after

its creation began smuggling in German bio-weapons scientists. Many of them were wanted by the number of prosecutors. And they were brought over here, a lot of them, to Fort Dietrich, but also to Plum Island and other places, to develop and they were brought in from Japan, which had much, much more comprehensive bio-weapons program. They killed 500,000 people during that war, war, to a period. I've 100,000 Chinese with bio-weapons, and they were doing these horrendous experiments live, vivid sections of over 3000

humans. Those scientists were brought over here and put the kind of ethical Paul on the U.S. My weapons. They put their ethical, their elastic ethics. It became the brand of the U.S. bio-weapons program,

was on nuclear equivalents. In other words, they could kill as many people in nuclear bomb as

“cheaply. They estimated the cost of killing the entire American population. That they could achieve”

that for 29 cents per life with the bio-weapons that they had in hand in 1969. And then, you know, Richard Nixon surprised everybody. And then one of the greatest things in his career, which is he went to Ford Dietrich, then he announced the closure that you in a lateral termination of U.S. bio-weapons programs. He saw that this was an poor man's nuclear bomb because they were publishing how to do it, essentially, and it was that we then passed around the world. And anybody could achieve

the nuclear equivalency for an busman's budget, and Nixon recognized that that was, you know,

that we had a monopoly on nuclear weapons. We had seven other nations. And let's keep them

to ourselves. And I'd give everybody the capacity to kill that many people, that quickly.

“There was a lot of money. And if how many times do we want to be able to kill the world over,”

you know, I mean, like why stockpile that many weapons? It chemical, too. Yeah. And just to finish the story, learning the anthrax attacks in 2001, which came one week after in 9/11. And Congress was trying to pass the Patriot Act, which was a very controversial, has changed the nature of American democracy. The two senators who were objecting to a dash on late, during that period received anthrax powder, and they're male, and they closed

down Congress, and ended up killing a lot of people. And the Patriot Act passed immediately,

and the anthrax was blamed on Sodom Hussein, and we went to war. And we now know, because the FBI told us that the anthrax actually was aimed at anthrax that came from a US bio-weapons lab on the A-blame for Dietrich. And so it was not a foreign attack on our country as we were told. And the Patriot Act passed and the Patriot Act had a passage in it that said, although this act does not overrule or retract that you need a convention or the bio-weapons charter,

which Nixon got everybody to sign in 1973, and it bio-weapons globally. And the Patriot Act had a hidden provision at it that said, even though this isn't retracting the bio-weapons, Nixon's bio-weapons charter, we are now giving immunity to any federal official who violates those laws and who develops bio-weapons and researchers. And they have better gone than not want to do the research itself, because it was scared that, you know, it is a hang-offensive,

they weren't sure they were going to get full immunity from the Patriot Act. Oh, they began funneling money to anthony Fauci in NIH. And as you know, bio-weapons research and vaccine research are the same track. So you can say it's vaccine research when you're actually developing, doing gain of function studies from bio-weapons, and that in 2014, three of those bugs escaped from, I made all high-profile escapes from those U.S. bio-weapons labs that, you know, Fauci had

started, and they got national attention, the escapes, and 300 scientists wrote letters to President Obama asking him to shut down, Anthony Fauci studies, and he was going to cause a global pandemic, and President Obama ordered a more time on all those 18 studies by Fauci, but what Fauci didn't stop them and said he moved the bulk of his science, the worst study is to the Wuhan lab offshore, where he could continue doing this science, and it was funded not just by him, but the most of

the funding came from USAID, which is CIA money. So you have the age, you know, what I do in my book is I trace a straight line from Operation Paperclip from the Nazi and Japanese bio-weapons scientists all the way up to the Wuhan lab and the escape there. You can tell when you're reading your book that you were thinking about the links between COVID-19 and, you know, what happened in, to Lyme disease, but we do know that Operation Paperclip scientists were working at Plum Island.

And they were working at Dietrich, Willy Bergdorfer that Lyme discovers said, "I worked with

“some of the paperclip Germans. They were very nice fellows." That's what he said.”

Of course. They were picking their brains. Yeah, we were exploiting them. So tell us what you know about, you know, what happened at Plum Island and the links with the tick infections. Well, what I did was I, I looked at the stake in the ground where, and I age in the CDC said,

It was like, there's no people now. It was Willy Bergdorfer who identified the organism.

“Yeah. Yeah, Yale had been investigating the scary new outbreak of kids getting swollen knees”

and lots of sick people for 10 years and they didn't make any progress. They called in Willy Bergdorfer from Rocky Mountain Lab. He was a Swiss German scientist who was brought over in 1951. He was our leading tick experts. So he was called in. He was actually investigating a bunch of people dying of Rocky Man and spotted fever along Island. And then he started looking at it. Yeah, you know, added it gets along Island from the Rocky Mountains. But also,

there was a cluster at that time of kids who were getting rheumatoid arthritis all in knees, fevers, all of these other issues. I'm very, very, very, very strong cluster in Lyme, Connecticut, which is right across the water from Plum Island. Yeah, it's just a few miles,

“a easy trip for a bird, a deer can swim across that channel too. Yeah. So the story from”

NIH is the sparkly was causing all the illness, game over. You can cure it with two weeks of doxycycling. With the information that it was a bio weapon, I started looking backwards in time. And what I realized in the late 60s, three freaky new or disease is showed up. Just within like 10 miles of Lyme, Connecticut, Long Island and Massachusetts Cape Cod and Tucket, Martha's Vineyard, you know, if you draw circle of 10 miles around there. Really suspicious for

pretty much three novel pathogens to show up. There was a really deadly Rocky Man and spotted fever, whereas they had usually only had like one case a year, all of a sudden there were hundreds, and people were dying. Rocky Man and Spada Pover is the most deadly to emergencies in the U.S.

And then there was the busiosis, a second in May and case, which is a cattle parasite. And one

“thing you should know is Plum Island was the headquarters for anti-animal bio weapons.”

And so the study, Huff and mouth disease mostly, bird plague. That's and probably the busiosis. Anthrax as well, which is, you know, that it's like far-go-toed bio weapon at the time. And then the other thing was the Lyme arthritis, which is what Alan Steer at Yale named it. He was a very ambitious young rheumatologist, and he saw the disease only as a knee disease, since he's a rheumatologist. And that sort of set the research course for the disease off because as we know now, Lyme

diseases are primarily a neurological disease that can enter your bloodstream and go into your brain or all your joints within 48 hours. So that was unusual. And if you look at the guidebook for is it natural, unnatural outbreak, certainly three new diseases in a little area just in a couple of years as a suspicious. So then I started asking why. And there were just some shocking things

I learned. First of all, the Lyme discovered when he said there's something suspicious about this outbreak.

And he wouldn't give all the details. He was a reluctant whistleblower, but he did this discovery in age 56, and all his fame was staked on this discovery. And for him to admit later in life when he actually had Lyme disease that I was lying, I hid something. It carries a lot of weight, you know, why would someone destroy their reputation like that? So after a few interviews, I looked at the National Archives, all his lab notebooks. Then he gave some of his lab notes to

he wanted to put it in the BYU archive. And I got an early look at that. Those are his original lab notebooks. His handwritten draft of his science discovery article, where it talked about this other pathogen, which was a cousin of Rocky Man and spotted fever. It's known from the scientific literature that they're webinizing this organism, which is officially called a ricette seal. They were at that time freeze-drying it, aerosolizing it. And their plans were to spray it on the enemy

as a very lethal thing. So that was pretty shocking. At that time, they were doing crude, Willie Bergdorf was doing crude, the anti-function experiments with ticks. He inside of ticks, he wouldn't mix bacteria and viruses to see which ticks could transmit that, because normally a tick has a disease that takes eons to adapt to that tick. And then over time, a population develops immunity. But when you do gain a function on a tick and a new organism that

may have been from a different area, it's going to be more virulent. You're going to see the massive

worked on putting plague in fleas, so we could drop that on the enemies. And deadly,

“trinidad fever virus in mosquitoes. And this is the kind of mosquito, it's tropical. It usually”

is in the south or in the tropics. It's the mosquito that spreads Zika and Denghi. And so we were to test it. They were dropping these non-native mosquitoes on the poor black communities of Georgia. But I would say in the context of what happened in Lyme disease, I thought the most shocking experiment was an army funded and atomic energy commissioned experiment that was done out of old Dominion University by a scientist called Sonan Chin. And what he did was the military wanted

a tick that was very hardy, they could survive, Siberian winters or whatever, and they picked the

lone star tick, which was a normally way to the south below the Mason Dixon line Texas. The thing about that tick is it's a stalker, really aggressive, swarming, it has unlike deer ticks, it has rudimentary eyes, so it can track its prey. And what's really horrible about this tick is it carries these ricketsis, the Rocky Man and Spotifyver. So anyways, back up, the experiments he did on Coastal Virginia, that's on the Atlantic bird flyway, was he got a bunch of ticks from

Willie Bergdorf in Montana, and he'd get the pregnant ticks, so they had 2,000 to 4,000 eggs inside of them, and he would inject the ticks with a radioactive isotope so that all the baby ticks who hatched out would be radioactive for life. He set up several grids in the swampy areas of Virginia, and he would put a 1,000 ticks in each square, and over the months to years, he would take a guy or counter out to see how far the ticks creeped. And then he also did burst studies to see how

long it would take. It takes five days for a tick to go from Coastal Virginia up to Long Island, where the outbreak of spotted fever was. So it's not proved cause and effect, but he ended his experiments in 1969, and 72 is when the horrible outbreak of spotted fever, which is carried by

“Long Star ticks, not the deer tick, killed a lot of people, and that's why Willie went out. So it's just”

so irresponsible, and I interviewed that scientist, and I said, well, did you have to get any kind of permitting for this releasing radioactive ticks, which radioactive ticks, I mean, could cause mutations and whatever germs are in them, and certainly there could be some exotic spiral kits from Africa that accidentally got shipped to him from the lab in Montana, because that has happened before. I have documentation on that. Anyway, as a scientist, when I say, well, what about those uncontrolled

experiments, and he goes, he just laughed and said, I only had to get a permit from the city of

Newport News. He said, I never could have done that today, and later that researcher tested drugs

for vaccines for animals and his lab was shut down for cruelty to animals and safety lapses. So what I'm saying is these kind of experiments in the interest of beating the Soviets had no guardrails on them, and I certainly believe that part of the problem in Lyme Kinetic was this release of the ticks. Now the other thing that I'm looking into now are that Plum Island was doing illegal animal waste dumps on mainland Kinetic. They were previously dumping animal waste in Long Island

“sound. I think that'd be okay, and then 72, the EPA came along and said, you can't do that anymore.”

There are reports of that happening, but that's not proven yet, but that certainly would explain how the disease came about. Let me go back. By animal waste, I mean, not vehicle material, but dead animals. Both. Okay. And so, speaking of animal cruelty, how do they raise the ticks? You need a live, you need a like a live substrat in order to feed them blood, right? Well, I don't know about the mass production. Will they grow to ever work on mass producing both

mosquitoes and ticks? They would have guinea pigs and rabbits, and they would have these little cages that would go around the ears or on the bellies, and so they would feed on rodents that way. Yeah. So I don't know about mass producing, but I know I have pictures in my book of that with mice. Yeah, I've seen them where they have a kind of a cage on the animals head

insect. Oh, it keeps a sort of a cage of insects attached maybe surgically or was strapped to

that little animal. So the insect is free to feed on the animal any time without, you know, fear of being squatted with a tail or scratched off and killed. Yeah, it's as I say that the entire enterprise requires a lot of ethical, I would say bankruptcy or and that the operation paper could let people were, you know, who had done a lot of human experimentation. We're very, very comfortable experimenting

“on animals. Yeah. Wow. What about West Nile virus? Did you honor cross that in your research?”

No, I, I stuck with the tick effect, you're mostly all the experiments on ticks. I mean, the CIA pilot

study on Cuban sugarcate cane workers was operation mongoose and I talked to the guy who dropped the ticks and he did a ground operation, which he wouldn't tell me what it was, but he brought back one of those agents to his newborn son. There was also an experiment with unaffected fleas in Dougway, Utah, where they dropped over a hundred thousand fleas on a target that had like guinea pigs and cages on the desert floor, you know, most of the fleas hopped off into the desert. But in that case,

it was called Operation Big Edge and the people on the airplane got flea bites. So I think by

the early '50s, early '60s, the military people decided, well, trying to control two living organisms is way too hard as a weapon, deployable in the field, so they dumped the insects or actually they're arthropods officially and they went to just mass producing germs in large steel tanks like you would brew beer. And by the time '69 rolled around, there go to bioweapon was what I call the Russian nested doll strategy. So you'd have a bacteria growing in Nevada, you'd put viruses

in the growth medium along with toxins. So then you'd have a germ inside a germ with a toxin. So their plan was you'd drop this or spray this organism on your enemies and they would have typical bacterial infection symptoms. So fever feeling tired and then we'd treat it with antibiotics and then you would kill the bacteria and release the virus in the toxins and it would create cytokine storm and it would just kill someone rapidly. There would be no cure for that kind of

overload of your immune system. So that's I'm maybe when Nixon heard that. I tested my whole

“most kind of details, but you know they had one of those big vats. I think the largest one was it”

for a teacher, they called a black barrio, it's an entire building where they were brewing these kind of witches, brew of toxics and bacteria and really and then those experiments that they were doing in the Gula populations, which are the black islanders of Georgia and Caroline is. They were just limiting that to really poor people. They were doing it all over the country. They didn't in New York city. They dropped microbes that they put in glass white bulbs and they packed them instead of a

filament. They had not white bulbs and they dropped them into the subways, through the grape. They released them in National Airport. They released them from airplanes and from ships onto the city of San Francisco and many, many other populated parts of the United States. I mean in my book,

“I think I record over 200 experiments, mass open air experiments on unknowing, unwilling, unwitting”

human populations. That these guys were conducting and many of them were conducted under the supervision of leading Nazi scientists. That's all documented in my book. It's not surprising. You look at all of these terrible plagues that we're facing right now, including RSV, which now is one of the biggest killers of children. That was released, that was released through sick chimps that were brought in for a vaccine experiment in Maryland. One of the labs in Maryland and lab worker on an infection

that now is spread. It's one of the biggest killers of children around the world. And now the

When that spread to humans, as you said, it was virulent. It was much more infectious,

“much more deadly. The first population and now, as I said, it's one of the biggest”

killer of children, and now they're marketing a vaccine for that that has all kinds of problems. A French study came out this week that showed that children who get the RSV vaccine are much more likely to die, very, very high levels, that die immediately after the vaccine. And then, you know, the HIV virus, again, has a very suspicious pedigree that has been linked time and time again by the London Times by a really well-researched, journalistic efforts and books to small

box vaccines that were given to children in Africa. And again, another virus that came somehow that leaped from Bonnobo Monkey, Bonnobo chimpanzees to human being. Nobody can explain how they did that, but those same chimps. Their kinase were being massicated and used as a substrat to the vaccine.

And that was then given to two million kids in the Congo precisely the area from which, you know,

HIV emanated. You have the West Nile virus that again has a suspicious pedigree that people have have linked to Plum Island. You'll find disease, you know, and these, you know, we don't know, we can't say for sure because as you point out in your book, everything is shaded in secrecy. And the institution, the agencies that are supposed to be protecting us are all have military pedigree themselves. CDC came out of, you know, and NIH, the public, they came out of the

public health service, which is a military, one of the five uniformed armed services they were started, most of these agencies were started at the Marine Lab at the Navy Lab. There's no transparency,

“there's the worst thing is there's no accountability. I mean, if any, what?”

Yeah, so, I mean, for me, what I'm lobbying for is disclosure of these experiments. What wherein when was released, not just for ticks, but mosquitoes and please, because it would save us a lot of research dollars to narrow our focus. Right now, we're studying the spread of ticks by spreading, by like, dragging bed sheets along trails. There are better ways to do that. We can address the sickness in a more targeted way if we release that. Now, all those experiments happen

50 years ago, and the people who green-minded them are dead. So why can't we disclose those? It will help the American people, it will save research dollars. So that's the thing I push for at the end of my book. People don't want to hear this truth. They don't want to believe our government does that stuff, but I guess it's just a process to get them to believe it. What was the reaction to your book? Because I've dealt with censorship and I've dealt with

the propaganda so immediately appear when a book like this comes out and try to discredit you.

“I personally had to act, you did anything like that happen to you. Yeah, and I think I was a pretty”

easy target because I didn't work for the New York Times or something like that. So the first thing that happened was Professor at Talks University who teaches biosecurity and research is ticks. He published about a thousand word op-ed that just went straight to the Washington Post through a pay to play online news platform. So it basically, in the first sentence linked to my book marketing page and said everything in the book was conspiracy theory and Lyme disease was not

weaponized. It said we'd never had any sort of bug-borne weapons tests on mainland America,

which is not true. So anyways, I read that and I was really appalled because my first job was with Washington Post. I was a paper girl during Watergate. It was just mind-blowing. So I called up the author and said, hey Professor, there's like 15 inaccuracies in this op-ed. Can we talk about a ghost share and I said, oh, by the way, did you read my book? No. So he basically reviewed the book without reading it. And then I said, after I went through the inaccuracies, he said, yeah, you know,

and I said, well, do you want me to send you a book and he says, no, I'll just shred it. It was shocking because that person was obviously protected in a really big way. So then I called up the science editor at Washington Post and I said, hey, there's all these inaccuracies. Do you want to hear them? And she goes, well, no, we don't fact-check op-eds. Why don't you talk to the paid per play? It's called the conversation editor and she wouldn't listen to me. So here I'm stuck

stuff it back in the bag. It's out there forever and I killed a movie deal for the book and I didn't get any religion in my reviews after that. So it was only when the COVID lab leak stuff started dawning on people that people re-approach and said, well, maybe this person is telling the truth. So, well, let me ask you that I bet you that if you researched that at off there, that you would find links to either the military or the intelligence agencies or, you know,

what are some other conflicts? Well, what they did disclose in the Washington Post is that he was a director of a bio-level for lab in Groden, Massachusetts that studied select agents on animals.

“They did not disclose that, which I think would be relevant and they did a quick google search,”

you could have learned that this professor, both his parents were an army intelligence, their whole career and his dad was a veterinarian that dissected rabbits after the Nevada nuclear tests. So, and they had taken down from his university website that he was the director of this lab. So, I don't think he wrote it and I think he was protected. So, it was just a way of calling me and you know, there's really nothing I can do as an independent author to fight that.

Now, the Washington Post is known as a voice for the intelligence agencies, the intelligence apparatus.

My own experience, first of all, I've published a lot with the Washington Post. I've published a lot

of op-ed and they fact-check them up the Kazoo. So, I'll spend typically an hour or more with the fact-checker and with the attorneys in some cases. So, they definitely fact-check. I'm a number two.

“When my books, I'm Arizona was published, which was around 2014, I think. I got 12”

reviews in the mainstream media in places like Forbes, Wall Street Journal, etc. In New York Times, and not one of the reviewers had read the book. And the reason I know they hadn't read the book is because when those reviews came out, my book was not available to anybody. We had had made a mistake on the publishing date and was late. They published it on the publishing date. And, you know, as you know, a lot of times the publishers will send out advance copies to reviewers

so that they, you know, the review can receive the publishing date. But in this case, we weren't able to do that. And so, the reviews came out on a time they would typically come out, but not one of them had read the book. And they all, you know, were filled with obviously an actor who sees about what

the book is. And we now, I never mentioned the first copy that book. I had written three of four chapters

on autism, but it was so such a radio-active topic. I just decided to take them all out. So, I took them all out of that first edition and it was the book without the autism chapters. And, but they all the reviews were about how badly, you know, how bad, what a bad guy was. And, and how any science I was for writing for the linking odds and artifacts. And, I never mentioned the word autism in the book. And then, the second edition, I said, I said to the publisher,

just put those chapters back in the book because they're going after me anyway. So, I might as well lay it out. So, we laid it out in the second edition. But anyway, your experience is not surprised me at all. And so, yeah, it's surprising that more and more people are reading it now. So, I guess that's reassuring

“because it's important to public health. You have to take a take by seriously, because it can”

you can inject you with two or three or four different pathogens. And then you'll be really sick. And, and no one's studying the mix symptoms of these tick-borne diseases. Because our whole research institution is geared to pox, postulate, one disease, one set of symptoms. No one's studying the mix of like what my husband and I had, which was Lyme and Bibisiosis, which has its whole little profile. And none of the mainstream doctors knew what that was.

I think you have a hard time even finding any doctor at this point who can probably die. So, there's a few, you know, and because my son has it right now, I'm in the middle of a, you know,

identifying doctors and we found an amazing doctor from a woman who's a friend of his,

promising career. She had a couple of big films and she was debilitated by it. And she finally found

“a doctor, a Chinese doctor, and in a West Hawaii, I called Dr. Chang, who cured it very very quickly.”

And, you know, we found good doctors that treating at least some of the symptoms of it, you know, a lot of people just have to live with Lyme disease, but if they're immune system is very very strong,

they seem to be able to live with it without symptoms. So anyway, but everybody has a different experience.

“And I'm acting like I know what I'm talking about and I don't, I just, I have a lot of experience”

with my family all added at least. I'm visiting a lot of doctors and, you know, having a range of experience. Yeah. So, I mean, one thing I did for the last two years during COVID is I worked for a

non-profit called Invisible International. And we worked on a library of 40 accredited continuing medical

education courses on all the tick-borne diseases and flea-borne diseases. I mean, it's growing all the time, but that's free to physicians and patients alike. So, I feel like that's a big contribution getting past the primary care physicians who are just so busy now, you know, 13 minutes of visit. How do they have time to research the literature? Yeah. Okay, let me see this. Well, they do with the pharmaceutical industry, thousands of days. They know exactly how to treat

“everything. As you say, parks or coax, postulates, a bill for every ill. Grays, how can people find you?”

You can go to my website, ChrisNubby with K.com. My book sells on Harper-Con's website and all the places you can buy books. There's Kindle Audio. And then I publish a lot of articles at Stanford. You can read about various public health things. I mean, I think if there's a theme to my work, it's social justice for people with chronic diseases, whether it's tick-borne diseases or lead poisoning or all these other orthopod driven diseases like Bartonella. You are talking

my language there. Chris, thank you very, very much for your research. Thank you for your book, bitten. And let's say I'm touched. Yeah, well, thank you for having me on. I appreciate you giving me letting me tell my story because it will save lives, I think. Thank you very much.