Meg Wolitzer Talks with Denis O'Hare

And I'm always struck as a writer by choices that writers make and of course actors make choices too. Can you talk about that with regard to these stories?

First of all, I'll say that reading aloud to an audience is different than reading aloud to a microphone. And the weird thing about reading aloud on a microphone knowing you're being taped with a live audience is that you have two constituencies. Right. And for me as a live performer or theater performer, I tend to privilege the live constituency over the microphone constituency. This is all about the microphone. And I can hear my voice in my head, so I'm very aware of shaping sound in a very different way for this microphone.

That makes a huge difference. In a symphony space, the audience is move and shift and grown and laugh and sigh. It's a process. We take in what they do. And you then maybe change the way you're going to read like the next line. Yeah, they help you understand. Are you ever surprised by something an audience laughs at or doesn't?

Yeah, totally surprised. And again, it can feed you or their absolute silence inspires you because you can feel the weight of the story hitting them. Audiences can change from night to night too, right? If you talk to comedians, why aren't you laughing at that last night? Yeah. And also, you know, the thing about the written word is that you sometimes can't get something across that's on the page. The way the line breaks are, you know, the way the story is very small sentences and paragraphs that have breaks. How do you value that for the audience's ear?

Is there a way to do that now to maybe know as maybe yes? And nothing's in quotes here. The dialogue's not in quotes. You were actually honoring the transitions and I think a person like myself who's not an actor wouldn't know to do that.

We're always kind of rushing to get it over with.

And this feels sort of like superhero going through this guy got to save those kids got to get out of the story. And you as an actor are just staying in the story because that's where you want to be and that's where we want to be. Yeah. I also was struck by the changes in the voice. And can you talk about that modulation in the Ben Lori story?

“I've read it several times. You read it to yourself at first and see what happens. And then you have you have to be at it out loud.”

The idea in your head is going to be different when it comes out of your mouth. So I tried on different voices for deaths and for the lady, you know, you can do without voices. You can kind of go, you know, a lady goes to church some on Sunday morning. Notice his death sitting cider in a pew. Oh, death she says very much surprised.

Why, hello, I didn't see you. Hello, do you too miss death says for the smile? And what are we praying for today? Oh, says the lady, long life and happiness. Ah, says death. Sounds nice.

That's legitimate. Totally. And that's the way it's written. It's not written with any quotation marks. So you try it that way and you kind of go, oh,

we're missing something. I want to hear her. So you, you know, something to go, oh, death she says. You put a little higher, very much surprised. Why, hello, I didn't see you. Hello, do you too miss death says for the smile?

And what are we praying for today? Or, you know, you can make invent some price. You can go. Hello, do you too miss and what are we praying for today? You know, that'd be a different way to go. You could do that. You could make her start you.

Oh, death, she says. Well, hello, I didn't see you. You know, you need so many ways you can go. But for me, it was about keeping it just a little above my narrative voice and a little below my narrative voice. They're almost literary, but they're pushed to our character.

It's so interesting because it creates a uniformity. It honors the sensibility of the story rather than you doing funny voices. Exactly.

I mean, I know some actors and they do things that they never do voices.

They just always stay in one voice and that's completely legitimate. God knows when you get too many characters, it's a mind-field. I mean, I once did a book on tape where the note that I got was. So Dennis, the witch sounds like the cat.

“And you need to distinguish between the five bears.”

They're all sounding a little bit like the same Russian guy. And I was like, okay, I don't have five Russian friends. Right, you contain multitudes, but maybe not that many multitudes. No, no. So you do have to be careful of not backing yourself into a ridiculous system.

But you have access to these options. See, most of us do not. Just before I came here and thinking about how to explain what we do. And part of it is, I've been doing this for so long. The answer is, I don't know how I do it.

Right. You know, when I started studying acting when I was 18, one of my first lessons from acting teacher was, go out and bring back observations. Bring back five walks, bring back three gestures, bring back a couple of voices,

bring back a couple of noses. Go up in the world and look. And as actors, that's now part of my body. I mean, every day is I'm walking around. I'm collecting things.

I'm collecting people. You can't help it. And same with technique when we read a play. I just did a reading of Sam Shepherd's true West.

“You read that play and you have to figure out how to speak the way Sam”

Shepherd wants you to speak.

Who's in translation that's already a problem.

Who's different than the way that Neil Simon wants you to speak. Who's different than the way. So you have to find the style. We approach a text and you look at it and you kind of go, what's the world of the text, what's the style of the text.

In this particular story, for instance, it's short sentences. You automatically kind of go, oh, we're in a different world. We're in a world of kind of fairy tale. It's not really a real world. So it's already given me permission to do things.

The Delmore shorts story that I read is very different. We're a long sentence. A super complicated sense of place. Where are we? He's in a movie theater watching his parents.

Is this really happening? Whereas this is as mythical as it is, it's also concrete. They're in a church. Now they're in a cafe. Now they're in a car.

“You have to find the style I suppose is what I'm saying.”

And as actors, we're trained to do that over years and years and years and you begin to do it without even noticing you're doing it. How did you approach the Delmore shorts? It's been a long time, so I don't remember. And as funny, I listened to it.

And I didn't like my reading, you know, any even point in your life. You do something different. I liked a lot of what I was doing. But some of I was like, oh, I would have done that differently. I do that, but there's no interpretation.

There's nothing to start with. So it's not as important that I be a good reader allowed for my work. It's internal and it doesn't have a voice.

As if there's something really different and powerful about the written word

than just the way people speak. It makes me think of so many things. The idea that, you know, what we give ourselves permission is actors to do is to say things that aren't on the page. So she says, what a marvelous idea the lady says climbing in.

Is this yours? She says the car. His line is, oh, no, says death. I took a vow of poverty. My uncle let me borrow it for the day.

So for me, what I want to do with that is something's not on the page, which is, what a marvelous idea the lady says climbing in. Is this yours? She says the car. Oh, no, says death.

I took a vow of poverty. My uncle let me borrow it for the day. What is this uncle? Yeah. Who is this uncle?

Yes, that's Satan. Who is the uncle? Yeah. So, you know, to value the word uncle in a way that makes it go. What's that?

But again, that's a trick that actors have is like figuring out how to say something. That's not on the page that you think is in the context of the story. You're making words long. I mean, disgrace sentence. They part by a cliff and spread out of blanket and open up death's picnic basket.

They unpack a feast and lay it all out and then they drink a toast. That's a long sentence. You could say they unpack a feast. They lay it all out and then they drink a toast. But for me, I want to honor the sentence as written by the writer,

which is one sentence with one comma. This is just like my favorite thing to talk about. And I'm thinking now, as you have this script of this story in front of you, what's the difference between having to memorize something? There's a couple of things.

One is that when you are working on your instincts, you are bringing all of this crazy adrenaline to something. The minute you begin to rehearse it, it falls apart and becomes really bad. Because you're no longer working on your instincts. You have to justify everything.

And you now have to put it back together and say, "Why did I do that choice?" But then it comes back to that place again. When you memorize it, you get to a different place. The words do have to become yours.

“You have to own them in a different way.”

For a lot of actors, I know that when you memorize, you still see the page term. And you have to get rid of that. You see the bottom of the page. And you kind of go, that's top of 42.

All right, top of 42. And you see it in your mind almost. We do play as they often cut lines. We often adjust the script. You really mess you up because it's very hard to get rid of the lines you memorized when you're cut.

Always in New Still. I did a play. It'll take me out for a year and a half to 555 shows. And probably around show 300, I came out on stage.

And I did not know my first line.

And it came out of my mouth. But then it didn't know my second line. And it came out of my mouth. And I spent the entire monologue. It was a monologue about, I don't know, 15 minutes long.

I was freaking out completely panicking. Drenched in something. It's like the dream. It's like the nightmare, right? Because it had gone into my long term memory.

The lines had become part of my body. And I was somewhere else.

“And I was thinking, is that so much shop carve open?”

That's 148. Is that open? I wonder, I could do that. Oh, I can have that. I have this soup daily soup script.

They had to take a while. I'm speaking out loud. This is what my mind is doing. Because I've done it for 300 times. So it's like locking the door.

Did you lock your door? You know, you were present. You did it. You turned it free. But you don't have any memory of it.

But the audience probably wouldn't have known. They wouldn't have known. I was terrified. So I had to go back and memorize the monologue again. And resolder all the connections.

Why do I say it in the next thing? How do we get from this to that?

What is the music of this? And it put it back together again. And it was fine. But it was terrifying. That's really frightening.

“So I have you here in this studio, trapped in this studio.”

I would love to sort of watch in person how you do this. And would you read some of the story? Yeah, it'll be different, I think. The two lie on the blanket and laugh and talk. Death tells the lady about his job.

It's okay. He says, but sometimes I get lonely. I know how you feel. The lady says, "You too?" Says death.

I always thought you were happy.

Dinner parties and photographs and all. Well, says the lady, things are different now. What with everyone gone? Gone? Says death.

But where did they go? Well, my husband. You know, the lady says, "Am I daughter's married in Sweden now? And the twins have moved to Maine?

Maine?" Death says. But last week they were four. Oh, that wasn't last week. The lady says, "Maybe time moved differently for you.

But I haven't seen you in ages." But. Says death. Gazing at her and all. But.

You look exactly the same.

“But even as he says that, he sees the old woman like a ghost there.”

Moving beneath the skin. Wow. Says death. He blinks and looks away. You look the same to me.

He says. It's nice if you to say. The lady says with a smile. And I still feel the same on most days. And.

And what if you've been up to? She says suddenly brightly as if to change the subject. Me. Says death. Oh, well.

Not too much running up and down upon the earth. Well, tell me all about it. The lady says.

I'd never been anywhere in my life.

No where says death. Just here. The lady says. Is the rest of the world as nice? Nice?

Death says. I. I never thought of it that way. I. I like it best in Asia, I guess.

Did you see the Great Wall of China? The lady says. Oh, yes. Says death. Of course.

So he tells her about his time there. About the houses and the domes. About the sun sets in the spires.

“And he tells her about Egypt and Iceland and Norway and and Dr. Taka.”

And everywhere else. It sounds so nice. The lady says with a sigh.

I always meant to see the world, but there wasn't time.

Well. Says death. It's never too late. We can go. And if you want, you can drive.

He raises a hand and motions to the car. Oh, oh. I couldn't. The lady says. And besides, don't you have a job to be at?

I could take some time off. Death says. The lady looks at death. And death looks back. Then with a smile she starts to nod.

All right. She says. You've got yourself a deal. Now, please. Help an old lady up.

So death stands up and takes the lady's arm. And he walks her slowly to the car. He helps her in and then climbs in himself. She turns the key. And the engine roars.

Okay, now. Says death. Are you sure you want to do this? I do. The lady.

But first, a kiss. So death leans in and they close their eyes. And they kiss. Then she floors it off the cliff. That was wonderful.

Tell me about your tricks. It was an idea of making that section more about death's journey than her journey. His revelations and her revelations. Right. That's sort of up here.

Shearing away. And he's having this massive change. Yep. He completely like gobsmacked. And then just at the end, making it a little darker, showing her hesitation.

She suddenly realizes what's happening and goes, "Oh, he's come from me." You know what that thing about? Oh, I couldn't. Lady says. And besides, don't you have a job to be at?

You know, it's all understood. I could take some time off. No, you're my job. I'm here for you. So it was just sort of putting a finger on the scale a little bit more with that.

And they're making him a little darker and a little more sinister, finally at the end.

Anyway, how you just did it.

“And I'm thinking, of course, of the Emily Dickinson, because I would not stop for him.”

He kind of at least stopped for me. Yeah, it was great how exciting to see and listen to the choices that you make in person. And also you push things by giving it momentum.

So death stands up and takes ladies arm.

He walks us all into the car.

“He helps her in and then climbs in himself.”

She turns the key and the engine roars. Boom. Right. Okay, now. You know what I mean?

“As opposed to the other way I did it before, it's much more ceremonial trying to like paint the”

picture of their movements.

And you've made the case for each of them. There's no right answer. I know. There's just taste. My taste your taste.

The director's taste. The audience's taste. And everyone's taste is different. And all you can do is make a guess. And try to stab.

You know. And then some of them will go that was brilliant. So most of it kind of go. I didn't like it. Yeah.

Well, I really liked it. So thank you. And it was so great to talk to you.