419: Ohio House of Horrors: New Photos from Inside, 16 "Almost Feral" Kids Rescued & Very Dark Timeline | The Sider Family

- Terrific, really is.

- The residents here in Hamden, Ohio,

“just cannot wrap their heads around this.”

- It's just shocking, 16 kids in that kind of condition. - Those innocent children ranging in age from one and a half to 18 years old. They were found in what police described as the most horrifying scene

they've ever witnessed in their careers. - And they're asking the simple question, how was this able to happen? (dramatic music) - Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to

an all new episode of Surrealist League. (dramatic music) - Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of Surrealist League. With me, you're host Annie Elise.

Also, you're true crime BFF, breaking down all the cases that you wanna know all the details about new cases, breaking cases, old, cold cases, whatever it is, I'm here to do the research, the deep dive, the go to the dark corners of the internet

so that you don't have to. And let me just say this.

“First and foremost, okay, I hear you guys.”

I promise you, I am not ignoring you, I see your DMs, I see your emails, I see your case requests, and I hear you, I see you, I know. I wanted to get this episode out way sooner than it's being released, but here is the problem with that.

First and foremost, there was so much information

that we needed to obtain, not only because it's a pretty giant case, but also, because there are so many elements to it that are kind of being like hush-hushed. So we had to file a bunch of formal requests,

we had to dig deep, we had to then vet all of this information to see what's real, what's not, what's a theory, what's what, you know, all of these things. And so I didn't want to prematurely release an episode on this case until I fully had all the information

where I could give you start to finish everything that we know about this case. And if you're like, Annie, I have no idea what case we've been talking about, well, let me just tell you, because we are going to Ohio today.

“And more than that, we are going to do a deep dive”

into the trenches of hell that is the house of horrors

that was discovered. Now, like I said, I have been flooded by you guys with requests to cover this case. And it's, you know, I had to come through, it's a crazy one, you're gonna be with me for a minute,

but I also wanna warn you, it is not for the faint of hearted because this one, it's tough and disturbing and gross and very difficult to wrap your mind around how like things like this actually happen. People like this actually exist.

This case has truly shook an entire small rural community to its core. People are angry, they are disgusted. At most of all, they were shocked that this happened right under their noses.

It's just shocking, 16 kids in that kind of condition. This is gonna last a long time being shocked. It's not gonna go away in a year, it's not gonna go away in a couple of years, it's gonna be long lasting.

That's the truth. Now, I wanna get right into the details, but like I said, I do wanna give you just this blanket warning that this is one of the more disgusting cases that we've ever covered.

I covered the Robinson family a while back, not too long ago, and I thought that was tough. This is so ultra disgusting. I mean, the details are just beyond diabolical and absolutely unthinkable as a parent.

In fact, another reason it took me so long to get this episode out is because in addition to fact finding and getting to the bottom of it, I also had to take breaks throughout because I just couldn't stomach it truly.

So if you have to pause or skip, I totally understand we're gonna be together on this. I've got all of my notes right here in front of me. I'm gonna break down the whole timeline. What happened when it was exposed,

the backstory of the people involved, the house and the conditions and what that means, allegations that are happening right now that are so vile, I can't even make sense of it myself. There is so much to go through.

So let's start with the timeline of how this all unfolded. On Tuesday, June 30th, 2021, Vinton County Sheriff's Office and the Ohio Bureau of Investigations, otherwise known as the BCI, they executed a search warrant at 182 Omer Street

in Hamden, Ohio. Now when the sheriffs enter the home and I'm gonna get to why they executed this warrant as well later on because it's not for what they found, shockingly enough.

But when the sheriffs entered the home, they found 16 children ranging in ages from one and a half

And they were hidden in a small 12 by 12 room.

“Now, this property itself was incredibly tiny,”

but think about that for a moment. A 12 by 12 room with 16 kids shoved in it. Some kids technically an adult, 18 years old, although frail and small due to being amaceted, which I will get to as well.

But that is your crammed. You're not necessarily quite shoulder to shoulder, but pretty freaking close. And the condition of this room and this house could only be described by Ohio Attorney General

as pure evil. Investigators say that when they were conducting, like I said, this unrelated investigation, they made this horrifying discovery. They did not expect to find them inside the home,

no less the living conditions,

the amount of children and just everything

that was about to unravel. Now the four adult members of the home, Gary Senior, Christina, Gary Junior, and Elizabeth Citeres, were all arrested.

“The 16 children were removed from the home,”

and they were taken to local hospitals for observation and treatment. But this news when it became breaking news, it sent shock waves through the town, honestly, the entire country,

everybody was just trying to figure out like, what happened here? We often hear the term House of Horses, right? It early on got dubbed after the turpin case, which is actually more in my neck of the woods

it back in California in the Riverside area. But it's when the living conditions are so vulgar

and hellish that there's no other way to explain it,

other than a house of Horses, feces on the wall. Buckets, no food, roaches, what you name it, you imagine it, that's what it is. And so when these headlines broke and everybody saw, oh my god, 16 kids rescued from this tiny little home

and this 12 by 12 room, what really is going on here? Vodos of the people involved also started going viral, which I'm just gonna say were these photos are like a freaking jump scare, okay?

But everybody was trying to be like, you know, trying to figure out what happened here. So on Wednesday, July 1st, 2026, the Vinton County Sheriff Ryan Kane and the Vinton County Prosecutor William Archer

and also Ohio Attorney General Andy Wilson, they held a press conference because they wanted to discuss not only the details that they could discuss about the case, but also more details on the arrests of the four family members. Now let me do a little bit of family lineage for you really quick

and I'm gonna do my best to explain this as easily as I can, photos on screen for those of you watching the video version of this so that you can follow along because there are a couple duplicate names

and when we get to the children, a lot of them are only going by initials to protect their privacy but I want to illustrate what this family tree, I guess you could call it, looks like. So Gary Sr. and Christina are the grand parents

of Gary Jr. Gary Jr. is married to his wife Elizabeth and the two of them are parents to all of the children

“allegedly and I'm gonna get to that in a little while, okay?”

So the four adults each are being charged with 16 counts of endangering children, account for each child who was rescued from the home. All four adults are currently at the time of this recording, being held on a $300,000 bond.

Gary Sr. Christina and Elizabeth have waived their right to a preliminary hearing. That happened just a couple of days ago. Now let's go through the details of what resulted in this discovery. Why did they even have a warrant to go and search this house?

No less lead them to something that they absolutely did not expect. Well for about a month, the authorities had been conducting an investigation. The details of this investigation were not discussed in the press conference, but stay tuned,

'cause you know, as a true crime bestie, I had to come through, I did some digging and I figured it out. I got all of the details for that, which I'm gonna get into.

But they were doing this unrelated investigation. The attorney general said that the evidence shows that the four adults were quote pretty good at hiding these kids. And neighbors in the area also apparently told investigators

that they had no idea that kids even lived inside this home. This was after the cider family had moved in four years earlier. But can you imagine that? And we hear that again, a lot of times in these house of horrors type cases where the neighbors say,

"We had no idea that there were even kids there. Nobody's ever outplaying. They're not neighbors who waived to when they're getting the mail. They keep their shades covered, their blinds closed." So it's one, once again, just very reminiscent

of history and pattern that we see, unfortunately, in these types of cases. So during the press conference, attorney general Andy Wilson and Sheriff Ryan Kane described the conditions where the children were found.

regurgitate that information to you,

“I want you to hear exactly from their mouths”

how they described it, because it's difficult to hear, but also incredibly important to hear. So take a listen. - It's almost indescribable.

And so the sheriff was on the scene as well. Probably I'd have him come up, but boy, it... They were seeing water stop, but yeah. - Mostly cap.

- So you kind of got to come up with that? - As I was saying, most of our livestock was kept in better conditions than the children. It was extremely high presence on sure of bacteria or human feces, it was just a disgusting thing.

- Okay.

- Why did you feel like walking through there

that is the city? What, like with the spiritual laws on your mind? - So it was disgusting, even where the kids were. I would think it's typical most law enforcement have experience with homes in a similar fashion.

A large number of people, though, the children were kept in a roughly 12 by 12 area. It seems like it's where they've spent the most of the last four years. And that's what it looks like.

In a weird way, you're hit with most two emotions. - There is joy when we realize that we're about to change 16 laws for the better. - Now, let that just sink in for a moment, okay? The fact that he said that livestock

were kept in better conditions, animals. And look, I'm not trying to shade any animals and say that they don't deserve to be well-kept or well-taken care of, but the fact that there is this comparison about these children

and livestock being cared for better than these living kids, which I get at livestock selling to. But you know what I mean? It's just deplorable. Now, you may have also, if you've been following this case

or on social media actively, you may have seen some quotes from the Attorney General about the children living in thorough world conditions.

“And, you know, saying that's how bad this was.”

But I also, again, want to play his entire quote for context. So again, another little bit of a warning because this is very sensitive for a lot of us. But take a listen.

- To describe that conditions, add it on to what the sheriff said. I didn't actually go into the room where the kids were. I just looked through the door. I was yesterday.

I can still smell. I can't get smell. I cannot get the smell off of me or away from me right now. We were just talking about that a little while ago. And then we were talking as a group about some of the evidence

we looked at today where they actually discovered the kids and found the kids. And it really, it's not that different than those old commercials you see of like kids in Africa, like just whether covered in bugs and squatting

and had that like distant look in their eyes. It's terrible. I mean, it is absolutely terrible. And again, we got to make sure the kids are safe. We got to make sure they're placed

in good solid therapeutic placements. And we have to hold accountable that people who are willing to do this to their own family. He also said, and this is a direct quote, that the kids were quote almost feral.

And he detailed that some of the children are unable to speak, have developmental delays and challenges, and that in 18-year-old could not even write her name, which, okay, heartbreaking, first of all, first and foremost, that some can't speak, they don't know how to communicate,

they either have a developmental delay to where they're unable to speak, or they simply

have never been educated on words and how to speak.

The 18-year-old, not even knowing how to write her name,

“I think that it goes so much far there beyond just”

the neighbors not knowing the children are there. I would argue, and I'd probably bet my life on it, that there was not a single day in which any of these children attended any sort of educational program whatsoever. And sure, it should not homeschool, right?

And so, it's like, for me, when I hear all of that, it breaks my heart because the first thought that comes into my mind, of course, is like, why on earth are you continuing to have children? Like, clearly, you don't want them, right?

But also, how did this go unnoticed for so long? Which, I know, I keep saying it, but just stay with me, because we are going to get to all of it today. I am going to unpack everything for you. So, while all of this information was being shared,

the press, of course, did ask some questions about how

And investigators said that the family had moved around

“so they're no higher over the past two decades,”

just constantly shuffling around, and that it looks like they also avoided setting up medical and government records. So, no digital footprint, untraceable, of course, no health insurance, but no IDs, no anything, to where there really isn't any sort of track record as to where

they are, where they're going, or, again, what their medical history is. They also asked anyone who knew the family to come forward and to please provide any information. They also said that they would be reviewing whether or not

the family was reported to any children's services agencies in the past. Then, at the conclusion of the press conference, authorities made it very clear that at that point, it had only been 24 hours since this discovery,

and that it is an open and ongoing investigation. They also said that because of that, they faced a lot of challenges based on the children's conditions, because think about it. If these children can't properly communicate or express

what happened, what they went through, different things that occurred over the years, it's going to make it all the more challenging for the investigators to get a clear picture as to what is truly happening within these four walls.

So, like I said, they said that it's big challenge, but because of this, they do expect more charges to be filed while they continue investigating and that the search warrant would be sealed until they conclude their investigation,

because they don't want anything to be in jeopardy. They don't want anything to give them any sort of hinder the investigation in any way or anything like that. So, with this, after this press conference, obviously everybody had questions, a lot of questions,

including myself, and you already know what that means. In the moment I start getting questions in my mind, and I start going down the rabbit hole, I know I'm going down the rabbit hole for you guys as well. I am going to dig deep.

I am going to figure out everything there is to know and try to make sense of it all. So, I'm going to break down everything that I found. I'm going to give you some context and some background so that you can really understand what is going on here,

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Let's start with the house, okay? The first thing that I want to address is the location of the house, because if the smell and odor was so bad and lingering all over the place,

and in such horrific conditions, you may be wondering like I was, okay well then how did it go unnoticed? I'm sure at one point or another in all of our lives, we grew up in a house or a neighborhood

where there was always that one house on the street

where it was kind of like, you kind of side-eyed at a little bit, you're like, their lawn is unkept or they have window coverings all the time or they have foil on their windows

and maybe this is just me, but I would imagine some of you have seen it in your lives at one point to where you're always kind of like, that's the weird neighbor, that's the neighbor we never see. But if you kind of ignore it

and you just chalk it up to maybe they're lazy, maybe you never think that anything super nefarious is going on or God forbid if you do, hopefully you call the authorities. But in this case, given not only the conditions

which I get, you can't see, they're not visible from the outside of the house, but the odor, the lingering smell, all of these things, it does beg the question of how it didn't go noticed and how there weren't any neighbors raising the red flag

kind of ring in the alarm being like, what is going on here? Now the case itself took place in a small rural town of Hamden, Ohio as I mentioned earlier. Now the population there is only 727 people.

It includes only 230 families and 338 houses. Hamden is located in the southeast area of Ohio and it's located in Vintin County, which is the least populated county in all of Ohio, with a total population of a little under 13,000 residents.

So not a big city, not a mega area to where maybe there would be more opportunity for passers buyers and things to catch on to and report. Maybe also because it's more small town, small families, people kept to themselves,

maybe in these more rural areas, I don't know.

“But to be honest, the only thing that I could really find”

is that the county is home to a lot of historic covered bridges. That's pretty much it. I couldn't, I dug deep and that's really all I could find. However, one thing that I do want to note before moving on to the house itself

is that the median household income in this area is less than $30,000, which is $50,000 less than the national average. So I do think that it's important to know that when we talk about these warning signs

that were missed and that I personally do think some of the neighbors miss, that is a detail that is important and comes into play with all of this because you can't necessarily blame the neighbors. Obviously not there, not the ones to blame.

The adults in this situation are the ones to blame. But also, when there are fewer resources and fewer opportunities, it does make it more challenging to be the Karen on the street. Or to be able to have access to see things

or to know or the internet, or all of these different things. So I just want to throw that out there,

“not that I think anybody would ever blame the neighbors”

for this, but also there are elements that roll into the bigger picture of the area itself, the population, the median income, and all of those things. So the house itself is located at 182 Omer Street. Now, according to property records,

it had one owner who died just before the cider family moved in. I've seen some comments out there speculated that they could be squatting in this home or that the home belonged to another family member and then they began renting it

for about the last four years, but unconfirmed 100% what exactly is going on and what situation led to this family being in that house. According to tax records, the house is made of wood and was built in 1900.

It has one bedroom, one bath, and a partially finished basement. Now, because so many of the details still have not officially been released, although we have been able to get our hands on some of them, I just want to say this, too,

that, and I'll identify this as we go. There is a lot of theorizing out there on the internet, a lot of speculation, of course, and a lot of just people kind of commenting with what they heard or their neighbor who heard something

or they know someone who knows someone or whatever

and I will always clarify, when those moments come,

so you know what is fact versus speculation,

in regards to that is that I have heard

that the kids were hidden in the basement in that unfinished basement area. Now, with that, a few photos have actually been released, which it was taking a while to get photos because they were holding everything so close to the vest

because of the integrity of the investigation and because so many miners were involved. But a few photos have now been released that show the inside of the home.

“And honestly, it's hard to tell which room is the basement,”

verse the bedroom based on these photos because every room looks pretty similar. And from my audio listeners, I'm going to go ahead and put the photos on the YouTube version of this, so you can pop over to the video version

and check it out yourself.

But let me just tell you this.

The conditions inside this home, they were just as disturbing as the allegations themselves. Photos show this house that is just overwhelmed by filth, mountains of trash covering nearly every room, moldy clothing and garbage just strewn across the floors

and walls that appear to be stained from years of neglect. And I wish I could convey the conditions of this house and how deplorable it truly looks. It almost looks like a house that has been abandoned

for years, stacks of trash up to the ceiling, cockroaches, it almost kind of looks like a landfill. Like that is how deplorable these conditions were. We also, of course, know that the house reportedly wreaked of cat urine.

Well, I will say this, one of the photos that was released,

it did have a footnote at the bottom that said it was the basement.

“But like I said, I think it's very difficult to tell”

which room is rich, which. So unless we have the body cam footage doing the actual walkthrough to see where things are logistically, it's difficult to know. But even so that room that was labeled as the basement,

it was so packed with debris that much of the space was no longer even usable. And outside of the house, more piles of trash just surrounded the property alongside these rundown vehicles that also were filled with garbage, cigarette butts,

wrappers, it was just the entire property was a disaster. A filthy disaster. It's like a landfill, meets cockroach infestation, meets hoarding problem, just no condition for any human to ever live in, which I think is why there was the comparison

that livestock is treated better. But it really puts into perspective just how awful this home was. And also, what led to the horrific hygiene problems that I'm going to touch on later in this episode as well. But again, you can pop over to the video version

to see these photos. But I am still a little bit confused on the room situation. So I'm not certain if they were held in the bedroom, or if they were held in the basement. But it is a small house in general.

It's only in one bedroom. So what I do know is the room that they were found in, regardless of where it's located in the house, it was only 12 feet by 12 feet. Now to give you a better visual of what a room that size looks

like, the room would have been smaller than a one car garage. It's also about the same size as a horse stable, which to give you an idea of how many people a room like that size could hold and hold comfortably,

I'm going to put on screen for the video watchers, a 12 by 12 tent. And in this image, six adults are sitting in it. Six. Now we know that 16 people were found in the room.

Again, I get it, and I'm sorry, I keep saying again, which I need to get better about that. But I know that a lot of these were children, and so they would be smaller, they would take up less room, all of the things.

But also it's like, you still need room to stretch, to do exercises, to move, to walk, to be mobile. So 16 people in a 12 by 12 room is unthinkable. Another thing that I want to briefly talk about is the sheriff mentioning that there was a large amount

of human feces in a urine in this room with all of these children, which considering that this house only had one bathroom for 20 people,

“I think that you can put two and two together”

on what was going on there. Again, it's almost like the blueprint for any house of horse type case, where there's either a bucket used or a corner used, but the sheriff described it as feces everywhere,

and just deplorable conditions overall. So now that you have the way of the land of the house itself and everything that was discovered, I want to get into the family tree, which I'll be honest with you, after looking at this

and looking at all of the connections, it's looking more and more like a family wreath. Not a family tree, but things interlocked together and woven together rather than independently branching out. So for this part, keep in mind, this is a alleged information

and it has not been publicly verified. I want to start with the adults. As I mentioned, Gary Sr. and Christina are married. They are the parents of Gary Jr. and also for other daughters.

Now, don't hold me on this. I can't confirm how many total kids they have because more and more keep coming out of the woodwork. It feels like every single day, but I want to focus on Gary Jr.

since he was involved in this situation. Gary Jr. also goes by the nickname "Bub," which he is referred to by family members and he's also referred to that through social media handles. Gary Jr. is married to Elizabeth.

Now, Gary is three years older than Elizabeth, and he met her when she was roughly about 12 or 13 years old. There is some post on social media with information from a family member named Lynn as well, which I want to touch on this information

“because it's important here, especially when you talk”

about lineage and the children and potential developmental delays and things like that. Because according to Lynn, Elizabeth and Gary Jr. are distant cousins. They met because their families lived a couple trailers apart

in Ohio as well, and she would apparently go over to the site or house for play dates. Well, Elizabeth eventually got pregnant

with her first child around 13 years old.

However, that child was allegedly not Gary's. Unfortunately, that child later passed away. Now, through all of this, even though they were both incredibly young, the siteers had no issues with the relationship between Gary and Elizabeth,

and apparently Elizabeth would oftentimes stay over there. Even so, Elizabeth would often run away to go be with Gary if her parents ever told her no. This happened multiple times, and she also told her parents that she would leave for good,

unless she was allowed to marry Gary Jr.

“So, when Gary turned 18, her parents didn't want any”

trouble, they didn't want her running off and abandoning them. So, they signed emancipation papers, which basically it means that you're free to make your own decisions

and live as an adult, basically.

I'm paraphrasing here. But because of that, Gary and Elizabeth crossed the border into West Virginia, and they got married when she was just 15 years old. So, Elizabeth then had her second child

around the same time as she married Gary. All 16 kids who had been removed from this house allegedly belonged to Elizabeth and Gary Jr. And I say allegedly because I'm gonna get into more of this later, but let me start with there.

So, all 16 kids allegedly belonged to Elizabeth and Gary Jr. who Elizabeth married him when she was 15 years old, okay? Also, a family member said that they were distant cousins. Now, the children are listed in court records as follows,

“like I said, a lot of initials because they are minors.”

The first child who was unconfirmed

and passed away, unconfirmed to be Gary's, I should say, and passed away was from 2006 to 2007. Then, CS, also known as Chloe, was born in May of 2008. And actually, I'm just gonna give you guys the years for now,

just so it's easier to track because I really want you to hear the year and see how back to back all of these pregnancies really were. So, CS AK, Chloe, 2008. CS, AK Zoe, 2009.

CS, who was potentially Christina, 2011. KS, also known as Kayla, 2012. BS, AK Brooke, 2013. GS, the third, AK Gary, the third, 2014. LS, 2016.

BS, 2017. JS, 2019. ES, 2020. NS and SS, which was Elizabeth's first set of twins, 2022. Then, faith and Bailey, the second set of twins,

November of that same year, 2022. And unfortunately, those twins passed away at birth. According to their death certificate, the twins' manner of death was listed as natural, and they lived one hour after being born at just 24 weeks.

The cause of death list, respiratory failure, because the twins were born can join face-to-face at the chest and the upper abdomen. Which, I know you all know what can join means. So, I don't think I need to explain that,

but just in case I do, it means that they were attached. Face-to-face from the chest and upper abdomen. And the next set of twins, I have the third set of twins, BS and WS was 2024. Then, the fourth set of twins, IS and IS 2025.

This means that Elizabeth has been pregnant for almost 20 years straight. Also, that she had four sets of twins within three years. The longest gap, when I broke down the map, 'cause you know, when I saw all these years,

I was like, "Okay, I need to really break this down

I know, if you've had birth, you know,

“you like wait six weeks before you can even have sex again,”

but then they have Irish twins. These two, all these things, like there's all these things, how quickly children come or can come, but the longest gap between the kids is two years and one day. The shortest gap is 11 months and two days. And I just want to read those a year is all for you once more, and I'm not going to say the names but just the years. 2007, 2008, 2009,

2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2022, 2024, 2025, it is wild. And look,

I know there are women out there who feel called and born to be a mother and they want to have

a huge lot of children and more power to you, but I would argue. This is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. I would argue that this is abusive for someone to give birth this many times back to back like this, especially starting at just 15 years old. That should be a crime in and of itself, depending on the circumstances in which she got pregnant. So like I said, the longest gap was just two years and the shortest gap 11 months. So now that we've unpacked all

that information, I want to move on to the crime itself. There is a lot of verified information out there, there is a lot of unverified information out there. And I just want to go through what's out there from the authorities and what I can confirm. I used to be one of those people who had an entire cabinet full of supplements. Every morning I'd be opening bottle after bottle, trying to

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seriously for 20% off your first order plus free shipping on orders over 95 dollars in live life, like legend. I mentioned earlier that the police were conducting an unrelated investigation

“on one of the adults in this house, right, and that that's what led them to this horrific discovery.”

Well, as I did my digging, based on this court document, police began investigating Gary Jr., the alleged father of all of these children, regarding a situation that took place in May of 2026. And on June 28th, because of that situation, an arrest warrant was issued and it was issued for indecent exposure. These charges ended up being issued for Gary Jr., which is why law enforcement was there to search the house, because apparently, aside from just being a hell on earth father

and husband and human being, he also is like showing his thing around town. Now, I want to

threat to take their own life and a well-being check, a wellness check performed that ultimately

sent the police there, because someone was threatening to take their own life and that the charges stemmed from an incident involving a 13-year-old girl, which I don't even want to go there. I don't want to imagine if that is true and this poor young child, but I have been seeing a text message regarding this circulating on social media. Now, let's talk about the discovery for a moment, okay? At least three windows of the home were open or bursted out, and the home's

door was missing or open. Several items were also piled in front of the house's front window. Investigators said that the children were kept in that 12 by 12 room for nearly four years, so it's not that it would make it okay, but it's not like these kids were held in this 12 by 12 room for a day, or a couple of hours, or coincidentally, being punished when these officers came to search the house and that it was all a coincidence. There are reports that they had

been held in there for four years, which if you remember, the cider family moved into this home, four years ago, meaning they allegedly have been kept in that small room, some of them since birth. It is horrific. I don't even know another word to describe this, and in those conditions, you move into this new house and there's a lot of all these kids away as if they don't exist. You aren't feeding them. You're not taking care of them. You're not allowing them to be out in the

“sunlight to play. You're not educating them. It is deplorable. It is the most depraved thing. I think”

I have ever heard. As I said too, officers noted that the conditions inside the home were horrific and beyond comprehension. They also, as I said mentioned earlier too, described it worse than what livestock lives in. Now, investigators are not clear if the 16 children all lived in that one room together, or if they were forcibly confined to it. But I would argue, even if they say they all lived in that room, they all shared a bedroom. I would say I would argue that that is forcibly

being confined into this room, because even if that's your bedroom, that's not the room that you're choosing to live in. Where's the bathroom? Where's a living room? Where's a family room? Where's any kitchen? Anything else like that? Like, you are being confined to that room. A bedroom is a bedroom to sleep. And I get it. You hang out. You do all those things too. But like, I would argue, you are for... They are forcibly restrained and not restraining, but holding these kids in this room.

“And that is not just 16 kids sharing a room, which how do you even sleep at that point, right?”

Imagine, again, I think illustrating a 12 by 12 and 16 kids ranging in ages and sizes lying there on the floor, whether they're all parallel to each other, they're intersecting, whatever it is. How do they even all sleep? I'm sure some are sleeping sitting up, crouching a ball, small, some aren't sleeping. It's horrific. And I know I keep saying that word, but truly, I don't even know what other word to use to describe it. So, there was also an incredibly

foul smell that was coming from this room. Large amounts of those human feces were found inside

the home as well, which contaminated the entire space with significant bacteria. First responders

have halted any further investigation of the house itself because of how bad the conditions were, because they said it needs to be deemed safe, it needs to be free of contamination. There's so much bacteria in there, even with hazmat, it's a little bit of a concern. So, they can't even investigate any further until they like, deem it safe for their team. The house was also filled with cockroaches, other bugs. The kids were covered in bug bites and scratch marks, which imagine

you have mosquito bites, you have other bites, you have roach bites, it's itchy, you're scratching, maybe flees, ticks, uh, skabies, who the freaky even knows. The kids also showed signs of extreme neglect,

which, hello, we all know that, and they appeared frail and malnourished. First responders noted

that the kids were frightened and that they were extremely quiet during the entire 20-minute drive to the hospital. Seven children were admitted to the hospital for treatment, including two that were airlifted to intensive care units. Officials also noted that if they had found the children

“24 hours later, there would have been at least one fatality. Which, can you even imagine?”

Such deplorable conditions, that one, if not more, but one, for sure, is on the brink of death, and they just 24 hours later, they wouldn't have survived. As I mentioned to some of the children cannot speak at all, or they have incredibly limited speech. Investigators also said that that

that the oldest child does have an active social media account, and her former boyfriend posted

“screenshots of their conversations to debunk this claim. So I think that kind of implies maybe she”

just didn't want to cooperate with the authorities and give them her name or write her name, or maybe it's easier to, I don't know, to type. I don't really know, I'm not an expert on any sort of developmental delays, so I don't even want to speak on that, but I just want to share the information that we have. So while we're actually on the topic of social media, interestingly enough, Elizabeth's family is speaking out on Facebook about this situation, and I think all of us likely

agree based on the amount of people involved that some family members may or must have been aware of what was going on, or have had some sort of insight knowledge into all of this. But according to Elizabeth's family, they had absolutely no idea, because once Gary Jr. and Elizabeth got married, they apparently slowly started distancing themselves, which her family says that he slowly took her away and started isolating her. Now, I don't want to defend anyone, but based on this Facebook post,

which I'm going to share from Elizabeth's mom, it looks like it was brand new information to her as well, that she had no idea. Personally, I would think that if her mom did know what was going on,

“she likely wouldn't be sharing this news article saying like, "Oh my god, can you believe this?”

Or I'm so shook," and all these things. I can't think of any reason why any family member would post about it, but they did not stop there, because other family members also chimed in. And I want to start with her two brothers. On the day of the arrest, Elizabeth's brother Jeremy posted this on Facebook. My sister just wrapped her life up, due to indoctrination, it is 100% real, 20 kids any younger than me. The math equals immature piece of shit man involved.

I met this due to a couple months ago, shook my hand like a baby would, super soft hands,

definitely never worked a day in his life. I should have took him out that night. I was thinking

about it, but my sister. I was happy to see her. It's been 15 years. You lost touch with your family, followed another, and look what happened. Which, again, I'm not trying to put blame on anybody, but I also do have a question with that. If you shook his hand a few months ago, depending on where you were, even if you weren't at the house and you couldn't see the conditions, wouldn't you notice the lack of hygiene, and what did that set off? Some sort of, you know,

red flag bell alarms, signal siren, something, and maybe not, and I'm not blaming the brother. Don't get me wrong here. But having a visual of just a couple of months, this isn't something that just happened over the last few months. This is something that has been brewing for decades.

“So, if you saw this in person in person, clearly you would know that something's a foot, right?”

I don't know. Elizabeth's older brother, Joey, has also been outspoken about this case, posting multiple videos and doing live streams across TikTok and Facebook. However, I want to just say this, there is a lot of speculation about Joey's motive in all of this, and if he's just trying to

use this situation as a means to go viral, which is really disgusting if true. And this all basically

stems from the fact that Joey himself has served time for child endangerment. And this was back in 2018. So, for that reason, and that reason alone, because he served actual time for child endangerment, not too long ago, I will not be sharing any of his posts or platforming that monster. Another family member Tiffany, who is related to both Gary Jr. and Elizabeth, also took to Facebook, and with a pretty lengthy post. In the post, she made it clear that she was not defending Elizabeth

in any way, and she believes that she's guilty and believes that the justice system should handle it, however, they see fit. But what really caught my attention is that she posted photos of what Elizabeth looked like before she even met Gary, and back when she had her whole life ahead of her. And this is one of the things on this side by side comparison that I have seen go absolutely viral on social media, too, because it is such a stark difference. And I get it age, time,

conditions, means all of these things change somebody's appearance and are contributing factors. But in this image, when Elizabeth is young and she just looks bright, she looks vibrant, she looks happy, and comparing that side by side to her mugshot and what she looks now, like now, it is jarring. It is incredibly scary. And if you haven't seen the photos and you're listening to the audio version of this, hop on over to YouTube after this, cycle through the photos that I've shown,

you'll understand what I'm talking about. So Gary Senior and Christina Sunanlaw, Ronnie Fletcher, also spoke out about this case, and he also said that his family has been receiving death threats.

generational trauma or anything like that because what happened only represents this one house.

“Take a listen. It's been awful for the people that had no idea that was going on in the house”

that it related to this family. I mean, we've had death threats. We've been told that we need to be put in a post of execution line of guns and killed and burned and you know, I mean, it's been bad. Gary and Lynn did not raise their children that way. The four daughters that got out are successful members of society. We raised our children. Our children have, you know, college degrees, or you know what I mean, whatever, like giving me. And for us to be put into

all this and there's generational incest and you mean this is going on generation. It's not true. This is all into that one home. The last time we heard from them, we gave them a car. Then it's probably close to a year ago now. Other than Lynn calling us and asking for money, you know, they need help with water bills or, you know, whatever. And if we had it,

“we said that if we didn't, one of the other daughters did. We've done what we could for that”

family at the arms thing that they was keeping us at. Now, I have also seen some other posts

from Gary, senior and Christina's family members, saying that the two of them would never

allow any of this to happen. But the both of them have been sick for quite some time and not doing well, stating that Christina may even have dementia and that she may truly have had no idea what was happening inside the children's room or that one, 12 by 12 room. Now, there is also some speculation that Gary Jr. could have been abusing the three other adults in the home. This is based on what appears to be ligature marks seen on the wrists of Gary Sr. Christina and Elizabeth. These marks

were seen during their zoom appearances. However, to be fair, I just want to play devil's advocate for a moment. Those marks could have easily been from handcuffs, from their arrest because they were malnourished and frail. And you, you know, you bruiseally, you mark easily. So until it's confirmed, I can't make the judgment just yet. But I do want to share that there were in fact marks and some people alleged that it's because he was the one orchestrating this, executing this,

and forcing this to happen. It's no secret. I've talked to you about supplements before. You know, I am a supplement person between traveling, recording, mom life and just trying to stay on top of my health. It's what I go to. I take magnesium. I take a handful of other supplements pretty consistently. But something

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social media interactions, it should come as absolutely no surprise that this case has spiraled out of control. There are so many people talking about it online because anytime there's a case too with limited information, people go into overdrive with speculation and theorizing and discussion and you know public discourse. And so there is just like a tsunami of internet chatter. Okay, there are multiple Facebook discussion pages. There are reddit forms. There are hundreds of

rabbit holes to jump into. So with that, I wanted to talk about some of the very hot topics that I keep coming across on these platforms and break them down for you because these are more theory driven. Nothing has been proven at the time of this recording from law enforcement, but I want to share with you what people are saying and allow you to do your own research, form your own opinions, and decide what you believe is true. Some people are suggesting that

some of the older kids may have given birth to some of the younger children. And this is based on

“four different factors. One, the police have not confirmed that all of the children biologically belong”

to Gary Jr. and Elizabeth. Number two, DNA testing is being conducted on all of the children. Number three, there is a significant lack of government records for the children. And number four, the four sets of back-to-back twins. Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible for women to conceive four sets of twins in that short amount of time and to do so naturally, but it would be very difficult for a woman's body to sustain those pregnancies and then recover properly.

So with that, a lot of people believe that the twins are basically all to help cover up

the births of other children. However, authorities have not confirmed that the children were sexually assaulted, that they are the result of incest or anything like that unless you are you the incest of Gary Jr. and Elizabeth being distinct because it cousins, whatever, you know,

“if that ends up being true, they're not saying that this is the result of any sort of”

incestual assault. It's all alleged right now. But it does beg the question, could it be true? And also begs the question, is that the motivation for why there are so many births back-to-back white children continue being born? If Gary Jr. is the front runner of all of this

and the dictator of all of this is it because he has sick perversion given the indecent exposure charge,

how dirty and deep does this truly go. There's also another theory that I want to touch on really quickly and it is a vegetable oil theory and buckle up because it is very disturbing. Now, this theory stems from an interview with Ariel Gutierrez who works at a local dollar general store in the area. She had interacted with this family very often, including the night before their arrest. According to Ariel, the family would come into the store just before closing almost every night

and it was usually Elizabeth or Gary Jr. with one or two of the smallest children. And when they were in, the dollar general, they'd keep these kids as close to them as possible. She went on to say that when they came in, the kids would appear to have their hair in front of their faces, almost blocking their eyes and so that they couldn't see the face like fully through their hair. She also said that the stench of these children and of the adult as well would fill up the store,

prompting employees to give them free hygiene products so that they could address this issue,

which she said it seems like they never even used these products. But I mean, imagine that for a moment,

you're an employee, this family just continuously is coming in night after night, very unhygenic, horrific odor, so much so that you're grabbing hygiene products and giving them to this family for free shampoo, soap, whatever. But then they come in the following night, clearly have not used these products, but once again, are buying vegetable oil. Because what really seemed to catch her attention was that all they did, every single time they came in here,

night after night was by the same products, water, vegetable oil, and sugar. Now, what caught people's attention was that the vegetable oil and all of this seemed to be the focus, because it seems like a very odd thing to purchase so often, so frequently, considering that these kids were malnourished. But that's where this theory turns very dark, because some people are assuming that they were actually feeding the younger children and the babies pure vegetable oil. All because vegetable oil is cheap,

it's an ultra-calorie dense food, and it's often been used in famine relief as well. And so it's something to where you're not physically starving them. I mean, you are technically yes, starving them, but like you're giving them some sort of sustenance, but it's just vegetable oil, because it has so many calories, and it'll fill you up faster because of its consistency.

“Do I think that is true or not? I don't know, but my gut tells me they're probably”

is some validity to it, because we know they were kept in a room, we know that the conditions were hell, it's not like they were whipping up spaghettiOs in the kitchen for these children, and to be buying a product so frequently back to back, what else would you be using it for? You're not cooking in the kitchen, you're not frying chicken, what you're, I don't know if that's what you use vegetable oil for, you can obviously tell I do not cook, but what else would it be for?

You're not bathing with vegetable oil, like what else, what on, and maybe I'm completely dense, and I don't know, so please sound off in the comments if you know what it could be used for

it's like what else realistically could they have been using that for so frequently? There's also

“a lot of talk about black mold poisoning, okay? Many people believe that the house has black mold,”

and that that would explain why Gary senior and Christina have not been in the best of health. Black mold poisoning can be very similar to dementia, the onset, the symptoms of it, because it causes brain fog, sudden mood swings, depression, anxiety, insomnia, chronic fatigue, and headaches. Now, while others believe that when Gary junior and Elizabeth moved into the home about a year ago, even though the whole family moved in four years ago or not the whole family,

but the older people, and there's mixed reports, okay? Some say that it was just Gary senior and Christina

who moved in four years ago, and that Gary junior and Elizabeth with their children moved in

one year ago, but then there's other reports saying they all moved in four years ago, so it's still a little bit muddy with that. But so my point is that while some believe that they moved into the home about a year ago, they say that for the most part, Christina is the one who took care of the kids, so then once her health declined, things spiraled out of control, which I mean with 20 people can find in one bedroom and one bathroom in this type of house, in or in a one bedroom, one bathroom

style house, I should say, things of course could deteriorate very quickly. It would not take much effort for things to go downhill. However, personally, I'm not entirely sold on the black mold theory because I don't see how everybody could be suffering in that house except for Gary junior, and that he's the one who has no symptoms, he's fine, he's okay, whatever, and as far as Christina, I mean, it is possible that she was helping with the kids, but again, it's just speculative.

There's nothing confirming it. Everything that we continue to learn about this case and everything that I have seen through my research, this is only getting darker and more disturbing, not only the discovery itself, which that is haunting, that is horrific in and of itself, even if that were just, you know, it cut and dry, but learning about potential familial crossover in their lineage, ancestral relations, children giving birth to children. The horrific and deplorable conditions

of that 12 by 12 room, the vegetable oil theory, the fact that Elizabeth may or may not have given birth to all of these children and had been pregnant for 20 years, it's my opinion, she is a victim

“herself. Truly, I believe that because she first got with Gary junior when she was what,”

12 or 13 years old, then got pregnant around 15, or got pregnant and then got married at 15, way too young to consent, way too young to be adulting and the fact that she had threatened to run away and so her parents felt that they had no other choice but to emancipate her so that they wouldn't lose her and let her marry Gary, that makes me wonder, was there some type of grooming going on with Gary who was a few years older than Elizabeth and something, she was her being so young and so

impressionable to wear, she felt as a young girl, she had to keep going back to him, she had to run away to be with him and because he had some sort of heavy influence on her and this is not proven, this is just where my mind goes because when I break it down in my mind, knowing that she was so young, that she kept going back to Gary, that she married him, started having children with him and from that point on, all these back-to-back deliveries happen, whether they all belong to her or whether

“some were from her own children, I think she is absolutely without a doubt, a victim in this situation,”

do I think she's not responsible? Absolutely not, I let me, like she is 1000 percent responsible,

even if she has developmental delays herself and it's this lifelong situation of grooming and Stockholm syndrome or whatever elements you want to argue, she should have done something to protect her children, so I think that she needs to face the music with all of that, but I also think that two things can be true at the same time, I think that she can be the villain in this story and I think that she can also be the victim in this story and I don't think that there is a world in which

a 13-year-old is potentially groomed by an older person, which she wasn't technically an adult, so I want to be careful with my language, but potentially heavily influenced and then impregnated shortly after and has all of these back-to-back pregnancies and health issues and things like that and isolation from her family and living in these conditions, I don't think there is a world in which you can't say that that person is a victim,

maybe even coming days depending on what has been released since I recorded and recording this episode, and once we have more of that information, of course not only will it paint

“a much clearer picture, but I think we're going to be a little jolted by what we find out.”

I absolutely think so, I think that this is only the tip of the iceberg of something very deeply disturbing. That's just what my gut tells me. In my time, I've covered multiple house of horror, style cases, especially when there are so many children involved and so many births involved,

and it's never, and I don't want to say as simple as it seems, but it's never just the surface

level information. It always goes deeper, and I'm sure it's going to be very upsetting. What we find out when we find out. Now before I go, there are a couple of updates that I want to give you before I sign off, because as I mentioned, this case is moving incredibly quickly. There are new updates coming out every single day, and sure enough, after I recorded this episode, even more updates came out. So I'm recording this pickup to drop in just because I really

want you to have the most up-to-date information as possible when this episode releases. But again, there will be lots of updates to come, so definitely expect a part too, but anyways, wanted to put these updates within this episode. So on Wednesday, July 8th, Gary Sr. was released

from prison, and he was taken to a local hospital. This was after he had a medical emergency

inside the prison. With this, the judge modified his bond, and also ordered a competency

“evaluation to be conducted within 30 days by forensic psychologists, which I think is very interesting,”

because if this dementia argument, I'm just going to call it that, it has any validity to it. Surely they will be able to address that through medical evaluations and even through a competency evaluation. So we will see what comes with that. On Wednesday, Elizabeth's attorney also filed a motion asking the court to lower her bond, arguing that the current $300,000 amount is excessive, and that it violates the eighth amendments protection against excessive bail. According to the

filing, Elizabeth is not considered a flight risk. She has no known criminal history, and he argued that there is nothing to indicate that she would refuse to cooperate with investigators or the court. In fact, he said that she's willing to comply with whatever conditions are required for her release, including wearing a GPS monitor, providing a stable address,

“checking in with a bond officer, as often as the court orders, and he had also put in a quote”

there about the fact that her goal is to reunify with the kids, which she knows will not happen unless she goes through the appropriate channels with the court system and does all of that. So he said, you know, she's highly motivated to cooperate and comply with any of their demands,

because her goal is to reunify with the children. Now, here's what's interesting.

Rather than asking for a traditional cash bond, he requested that she be released on a recognizant spawn, but still having those conditions attached. He also pointed to what he described as the family's extreme financial hardship. Are you saying that investigators themselves documented this home as being in extreme poverty, direct quote, not my words, his, and he said that because of that, he said the court is well aware that posting a $300,000 bond is simply isn't a

realistic possibility for her, which I understand, like the eighth amendment excessive bond, but also usually we do see a very high amount in bond, right? Because if it were easy, everybody would bond out. And then there would be lots of dangers to society lurking around. There would be witness intimidation. There would be people fleeing the country. There would be people taking their own lives looking at you, photos, dualos. So I understand that they can't afford

the $300,000, which you usually post 10%, but still even $30,000, but that's kind of the point in all of that. Not only to protect all the victims involved and protect the investigation and the forthcoming trial and all of that, but also because of the actions and the severity of the actions, but I understand it. He's doing what attorneys do. He also wrote that based on his conversations with Elizabeth, as I mentioned, her primary goal is to be reunited with her children. And again,

as he put it, she understands that any chance of reunification would be impossible if she failed to appear in court. He also said, and I thought this was very interesting because we've been talking a lot about the kids, about the lineage, about who is the parent of who, and he said that he believes that Elizabeth is the biological mother of all 16 children. What's interesting, though, is that a source that we were able to obtain has obtained birth records for four of the 16 children, including the

youngest, and also the oldest. And those records do in fact list Elizabeth as the mother and Gary

of the remaining children because those records have not been independent of them. That being said,

I can't definitively say whether or not all of the children belong to Elizabeth and Gary Jr.

“I'm not sure. This is the only thing that we've been able to confirm. And again, that is”

birth certificates. It's what you write down. It's not DNA testing. But I haven't been able to confirm anything regarding the remaining children because those records have not been independently confirmed yet. But even so, I know there's rumors as I mentioned about some of these children being the product of other children. If they all do belong to Elizabeth, I already talked about how I believe she's a victim and was groomed. And it's almost like she was just there for breeding,

just constantly back to back. And maybe that's for Gary Jr.'s own sick perversions. Maybe that's because neither one of them had completed an education level beyond the ninth grade, and there seemed to be some developmental issues as well. In addition to that, maybe it's because they did get entangled at such a young age. We'll not him. But her, like I think there's a lot of

“things. But I think she still is a victim in this. And do things can be true. I think she's also a perpetrator.”

But it seems to me that if all of these children do in fact belong to her and they carry her DNA and his DNA, she, I think, was just a breeder in his eyes, which is incredibly sad. There also is another rumor going around right now that I just want to mention, but I haven't been able to confirm it. But the rumor is that Elizabeth is pregnant again currently, right now. However, it is just a rumor at this point. It has not been confirmed. Her attorney hasn't confirmed

it. But I at least wanted to mention it because if you have been following this case, chances are that you probably saw this floating around out there. So I know that what we talked about today, it's a lot. And it's a really horrific. It's heavy. And it is incredibly dark topics regarding this case. So I'm sorry. And I want to thank you for listening. But I also do want to end it on a bit more of a positive note. Since then, since the rest, since the rescue, all of the things,

it looks like all 16 kids are set to make a full recovery. Yes, they will have a long road ahead of them as far as rehabilitation and therapy. But the community has completely rallied behind them, just like they did the turpent girls. And her whole turpent family is a matter of fact. But I say turpent girls because a lot of them have been outspoken. But in moments like this, when they can't lean on their own family, all you can really lean on are state resources, federal resources,

or community. And look, I fucking hate to say it. But state resources and federal resources sometimes only go so far. And it takes forever and jumping through so many hoops to even obtain those resources. So community is really what it boils down to. And luckily, the community has really rallied behind them. State social workers said that they have received calls from over 60 people in the area who are offering donations and who are offering to help with long-term care. And I think that that is

incredible. So I will certainly keep you posted on this case. If you're not subscribed on

YouTube, really quickly press the subscribe button. If you are not following on the podcast, hit the little button in the top corner, make sure you're following because as soon as we have more information, which I'm continuing to dig on the back end with my team, and we have filed a lot of documentation. So that should be coming in any day now. But once we have that new information, I will certainly be doing a follow-up episode with you. This is something that I know hits close to

home for a lot of you listening and watching. And like I said at the top of this episode, I get your requests. I see them. I hear you. But for me, I find it more beneficial when I can scrape through all the information and kind of tune out the noise and give you everything at once, rather than jumping on immediately and being like, okay, let's figure this out together. As we go,

“let's look here and do a bunch of piecemeal things. So that's why I waited a few days longer than”

I know ideally many of you wished, you know, this episode came out. So that is what I've got for you today. I know it was tough, but thank you. Please keep all of these children in your thoughts and prayers and let me know in the comments section of the Q&A section on Spotify and the review section

on Apple, what you make of this and what you think the truth is. Again, I am Annie Elise. Thank you

so much for tuning in and until the next one be nice. Don't kill people. Don't have children that you are unwilling to take care of and just be a good human. All right. Bye.