"Sting"

Hi, this is Thing, and I'm waiting to be the surprise guest on "Smartless."

I'm quite sure what that means, "smartless." [Laughs] But are we going to find out? They're going to talk to me for an hour, so hopefully I can be "smartless" with them. Welcome to "smartless."

[Music] [Music]

“Oh, well, well, you've been, uh, you did yourself a little bit of the rose last night?”

I just realized. [Laughs] I had an overshirt in the other room, and I was working out, and I was like, I was like, I was like, I took a long sleeve shirt out, just to put it on, and there was like, oh, shit, it's 930 night. Took a leak, and I got my water, and I got it, and he was like, as I logged in, as the resume

came up I went. Motherfucker, I'm not wearing sleeves, so Justin throws just, he's just waking up. Justin throws, he's not allowed to wear a Liverpool football club. Yeah, I cut off. He's at a baby.

He did. He just had a baby. God.

I saw a shot of him sleeping with his new baby on his chest, but he wasn't at home sleeping.

I guess he was in the hospital or something. But true to form, he's tops off. He's tops off. Yeah. His tops off.

He might have been on an airplane. Yeah, he likes to, he'll fly without a plane. He'll fly without a shirt, I want to, right? Yeah, you know this, Sean, right? When he flies, you know, he's on a plane.

He can't even say the word. He can't even say the word. He can't even say the word. I got it won't even come up. You're a good guy.

Justin can't sleep with a shirt on. And so if he's going to sleep on a plane, if it's a night flight, he takes his top off. And, and, and the, the flight attendant's got to wake him up and say, No, you can't sleep.

You can't know if you're shirt off on a plane.

He's just, well, I can't sleep with a shirt. You can't sleep with a shirt. Maybe, although I do remember, do you remember years ago, you meet Tony Hale Eli. And somebody else maybe car or somebody from your team.

We flew back from London. And we, and we threw fingers for the, the thing that folded into the bed. Yeah. And then I didn't have a shirt on it. Or remember you're disgust.

I'm disgust. You're okay, but you're like, you're not wearing a shirt. Show what I do now. You know what I do when I'm public. When I go to sleep, I stick my shirt into my pants like that.

Yeah. I stick my shirt. So that when I roll around at night, the shirt doesn't come up. It doesn't come up. Why don't you get one of those little ones?

Hey, listen, and to our listener, anybody out there who's, who's just looking for something. Who's lonely. I look, looking for some hot dude. It's just some hot stuff going on. You don't want to tuck that shirt into your CPAPO's.

“Sean, you should just, fuck, you should do it.”

You should do it. Talk about your CPAPO's is. Just do a podcast where you describe some of your routines for Sean after dark. You know, don't threaten me. Sean sent us a picture last night to JB and me after after the show.

And again, it was the star of the photo again was a heaping plate of spaghetti. Uh-huh. And then the supporting cast was on the same plate. Swedish fish. Yeah.

Absolutely. In fact, back of them. And I was saying. And he's having more than a sprinkle of the fish on the palm. Yeah.

You suggested he mix it in. Yeah. But there was no, like, ha ha. Anything Jason just wrote. Put the fish in the spaghetti.

Yeah. And you thought it was a good idea. I did think it was a good idea. It's great. You know what?

You know what I did last week. What I do is every single day. I wear my slippers to the theater because I know right away. I'm just coming home and going right to bed. Hold on.

Yeah. Hold on. You're struggling down some New York street and slippers just blending in. Well, I get out of the car straight to the stage door. But the other day, the traffic was so bad.

I had to get out and run. So I'm running down the street with my hair. Like, still wet from the shower and slippers. With like a ratty t-shirt. I looked.

I looked like, uh, like a New York presence. I'm sorry. So real quick. How do you think you look now? Yeah.

“Well, how come you wearing slippers out of the car and into the theater?”

Oh, this is where you go. Where do you go? Because there's nothing. Do you not like you? No.

Well, I'm not going anywhere after the show. I'm just going home so it's like I can just keep them on. And you throw them straight into the incinerator or when I'm done. Yeah. I've gone to dinner with Sean at Jar and I had slippers on.

And he shows up and he's wearing slippers, too. Why? But why? Well, you thought you just that you don't want to deal with laces and things?

I just want to go to the theater. Hold it. Hold it. Hold it. There are a thousand options for men.

Velcro and violence. I think you're at that place. That are laceless shoes that you can be proud of.

“I know. I know. Would be a lesser offense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think about it. I love my odds.”

Crocs. Crocs are an interesting. Where do we land on Crocs? I think the jury's still out. There's a little duration. Yeah. It's like jazz. We're still out. Is it cool to not? I mean, I won't take a position on jazz yet. Yeah. You don't want to go down the drain. Like one of our famous actors lately. I mean, I'm just saying in terms of whether it's for me or not. I'm saying Oh, yeah. Well, you know what? I think it is. It's something that I, you know, Ken Burns got me

really into baseball because of his documentary on baseball this 30 some years ago. I'm going to watch if he's got one on jazz that I'm waiting to open up and climb into because I think I'd be addicted to it.

Oh, yeah. Once I get his. I'm not. I'm not calling it a question. The incredible musicianship or any

of that. I mean, in terms of. Yeah, of course. Wait. You guys, there's a new UFO documentary that just came out. Really? You got to know. Wait. Hang on. I got to take the tin foil of my TV, but I definitely want to watch it. If this is not the age of disclosure. Yeah. No, it's the same. No. No. It's age of

“disclosures incredible. It's the guy. Yeah. It's the guy shoot. I can't remember the name. I'll find”

it by the text to me when we talk later. Okay. Okay. Um, now you guys have talked about a couple of things that our guests can really chime in on and straighten out force. One is how to keep the voice healthy on stage and the other is jazz. Wow. Oh, mama. Um, yeah, dudes, um, today for your listening pleasure, I offer you a man with just a dash of talent and a tiny sprinkle of accomplishments. He's an actor and a musician. He has a golden globe, an Emmy, four Academy

Award nominations is received a Kennedy Center honor and a CBE of the British Empire. As a

musician, he's received 17 Grammy Awards. He sold 100 million records and has been inducted

into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's been doing what he does in a league of his own and consistently setting the mark for what is relevant and cool since the year I was born literally. He's one of my heroes and I'm incredibly excited to welcome here today, fellas. Here's the one and only sting. Oh, no way. Oh, wow. Good morning, gentlemen. This is big. So cool. Wow. I apologize for the long-gated coffee

chat up front. Thank you for staying with us. It's riveting. Oh, but as you see, this is our only time to really communicate. And so we, we, we, we, we, we still a little bit of time from our guests and we, we chit chat. Well, now we've got talking points to talk about. Let's start with with with with with vocal health on stage. Our gummy bears in pasta, a part of your vocal health at all, is that you said you're keen definitely not?

“No. You know, it is a muscle. So you have to treat it with the respect you would treat a”

muscle if you were a footballer or runner. So do exercise. You have to stretch. You have to sing before you go on. Do exercise. What's your favorite? What's your, what's your go to set of pushups for your, for your vocal voice? I think you start gently with lip trills. Yeah. Yeah. And that loosens everything up. Yeah. And then you get, you get fuller and fuller. Don't leave your bus notes in the dressing room. That's, that's the singing. Oh, yeah. You do it.

You all, do you do all the, one, one, one, one, one, one. Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, you're a very good. Yeah. All that you have to do. And you taught yourself. You taught yourself

early on to sing. Yes, or did you, did you take, have you ever taken any formal lessons? I sold newspapers as a child on the street corner. So I, my first singing job was, uh, to sell a even

in chronicle. Yeah. My tone. And I would sing even in chronicle. Really? Yeah. Get some attention. And when, and people would come over because it was loud and you'd be like, here, you want to buy a paper. Yeah. I, I, I thought I saw the shipyard while I was born next to a shipyard. And I saw the evening paper to the shipyard workers as they came out. Do it again. What are the words? Do it again? Even in chronicle. It does sound oddly like shot. No, I'm crying. Go. Say. Yeah. It sounds good.

That's a good warm up. And then also sting the, no, you know, I do a lot of incredibly in-depth research. So on Wikipedia. You have access to Google. Yeah. Is it anything? Yeah. On Wikipedia, they say, is this true?

And, and that that is what sort of sparked the interest in in music. And you were playing around with that? Partially true. Well, as a, as a kid, when I ate yours old, my, I, I called him my uncle, John. Everybody was here uncle in my street. Uh-huh. He immigrated to Canada. Yes. Good choice. And he couldn't take a guitar. So he, we don't want to do it. Left it to the family. And I recognize that thing as a friend for life. Yeah. I also recognize that as some kind of escape mechanism. Right.

I thought, I'm going to escape with this thing. I didn't quite, it was a vague idea. Yeah. But I did not want to work in that shipyard, but that, where everybody else worked. So I thought the guitar is maybe my, my passage out at my passport out of here. And I sat in the corner. I didn't speak to anyone for six months. Learn to play it. I saved up for the string that was missing. Really? And I could play pretty, pretty quickly. Totally self-taught. You just sort of figured out

the combination of little pressing with the fingers gives you a different chord and the, or was there any help? I had a very good musical ear. My, my mom was a piano player. So she, she listened to me.

“She said, you have a good ear, son. You should, you should learn music. So she sent me down”

the street to an old music teacher, retired. And taught me music, but I have to walk down my high street with a guitar in a plastic bag. And you could not go unmolested if you're carrying a guitar down my high street. So you should have worn slippers. They would have stayed away from you.

That's Sean's safety strategy. I never wear slippers. Wow. We're, we're about to

visit in in England. Okay. I come from the northeast coast of England and near the city, and between the city of Newcastle and the North Sea is the town called Warzone, where it was a big shipyard. That's, that was the only source of employment in the town. It was quite a surreal industrial environment. Literally, I live next door to this place. The, my street would be blooded out by the ship, the hull of a ship. I've watched thousands of men walk to work every morning and think,

is that, is that what I have to do? And now you've, and now you've written, we're going to get to this, but you've, you've, you've, you've, you've not not recently written, you, but you are, you are doing another tour of, um, and grander yet of the last ship. Yes. Tell us about it. Well, I've been writing it my whole life in a way. You know, I described a surreal industrial environment, which I did not appreciate at the time. But in hindsight, you know, once I was, I had left and I had an international

career and success, I realized that I was gifted with something that was quite precious. I mean, the profound symbolism of giant ships, a river going by the end of the house, the sea, a church tower.

These were very powerful symbols for a budding songwriter, a budding writer, a budding artist,

and I, I realized that that I needed to tell the story of my, the community, the community that made me who I am, gave me a sense of identity, a work ethic, an engine to escape from it. But nonetheless, I needed to, uh, by pay a death back, if you like, to, to the people who brought me up and say thank you. So then how did you, so how did you come from there from this place, in the northeast of of England and sort of, not self-taught, but it, but you did, you obviously had this inclination

“and you had to help from this music teacher. And then how did you, how did you form the police?”

How did that first happen? I'm so interested. I'm such a, I got to say, I'm freaking out a little bit.

Yeah, me too. Such a massive fan of you, me too. I did a lot of stuff before I got a job in the police. I had a real job before I was, you know, celebrity. I was a school teacher. No way. I taught in a mining village. I taught 11 year olds. Wow. I saw a music English math. Wow. And then I realized that if I didn't leave this teaching job, I would be stuck there forever. So I, I told the, the headmistress. She was a nun. I said,

like, I'm leaving at the end of term. Then she said, well, you'll lose your pension. And she was right. I did lose my pension. Okay. You were probably 30 years away from your

“pension. At least, right? Yeah, it was important then though. But I decided not, I would go to London.”

So I had one phone number. I was also a dad. I just recently had a kid. It was married. I had a car

positive celebrity. So I always say that. That's so important for me. It gives me my balance.

“If I have any balance, it's because of that. But you were armed with this incredible intellect.”

And this, this environment, this upbringing of, I mean, it sounds incredibly, you know, cinematic. But these, these elements that, to me, sort of lend themselves to metaphors and issues of, of sort of existentialism and whatnot. Like you were able to match your intellect to your upbringing and write these songs for the rest of your life. Is that, is that, is that what kind of do you find that they'd all culminate into this great place with the last shit? Well, Jay, Jay,

be also a dove on that, too, which is, which is, so many musicians are artists that we talk to have to come out, you know, start, start doing it very young, maybe starting to band with their 19. And they haven't had the things that you just described. All these experiences, rich experiences of being a dad, of having a job of paying taxes, of voting, all that kind of stuff. And then they, they go into this artistic life and they don't have, you seem to have, like, again, kind of

JB, what you were saying, drawing on all these real life experiences. Yeah, and your lyrics always

have been, you know, they're, they're far from silly. Um, they're always about forcing some of the silly, Jason. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, no, no, no, no, no, from Shakespeare. I mean, we'll be a blood-dial blood-dial. Wow. Yeah. Well, sorry, just as side notes, thing, and I know we've asked you five questions here in you haven't, but one of one of your more famous sort of one word lyrics, and I want to hear your thoughts on this, of course, is in the dire straight

song, is when you came on, just saying I want my MTV. All right, launch a whole thing. I mean, launched an entire thing, but yeah. So, so then, so yeah, so picking one of those questions as it's still continuing in the last ship, have you found that this is, and you're nowhere near done, but this is a, this is a really interesting project for you to now revisit and continue to

“talk about, because there's, I think there's some new songs in it. Talk about where you came from”

and marrying your experience, your intellect, and all of that into how you started. You know, it's a deeply emotional play for me. My parents do died 40 years ago on stage with me, every night. There's, there's something, this is kind of spiritual connection I have with the people I've lost, and my brother came to see the play in Amsterdam the other day, and he was a wreck, he cried from the beginning to the end. In a good way, it was cathartic for him, but he knows exactly

what I'm singing about, and the community that we come from. So it's a very emotional play, and I'm going to be doing it at the, the Metropolitan Opera House in New York City. I mean,

there's such an amazing, I'm going to come see that. I'm going to be in town. I'm going to

see that. Please do. Yeah, I'm very, very excited about it. And what about it, what about it, for you said to your, you said to yourself, well, I'm going to, I'm going to write a musical about this, and there's going to be performance in addition to music and lyrics and stuff,

“as opposed to, I want to write an album about this subject. I think I was going through a”

period of, I call it, write as block, but that's a little bit dramatic, but to not, just wondering what, what do you write about, you know, your, your 40s, you don't want to write about your Chevrolet or your girlfriend, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's just, you'll be on that. So I, I went back to my past, went back to the town I was brought up in and started to sing songs about people I knew. And that freed me up, instead of naval gazing into my own psyche, I would try and,

you know, see the world through somebody else's eyes, somebody I knew. And that really freed up the song writing, and these, these songs came out of me like projectile vomiting, as if they'd been stored up there for a long, long time. It was a very quick process. Is it because that, is it because the, the subject matter or the thematics of it are, are particularly more relevant and, and resonant today in today's society, or? Oh, I think there's certainly relevance to today,

over, um, the economics are saying, well, the job you do making ships is now irrelevant and you are expendable. And of course, all of us are facing that right now with AI. All of us can be replaced by a robot. Oh, so they think, um, I have opinions about that. But yeah, we are, we are, we are

“under threat. Yeah. I remember, I watched that documentary about Sunderland until I die, which”

is not far, I guess, from you. That was a very close view. Yeah, it's, you're a new castle fan, no, yes. I support the other team. Yeah, you, you support Newcastle. Yeah, that's, it's a good squad. I'm a little scary. We'll be right back.

And now back to the show. I did want to get more into the lyrics and because you've always,

well, first of all, another thing is, are you, do you write music first, do you write lyrics first, does it, is it a mixture of the two, uh, because so many of your lyrics, I mean, so many of your songs, you know, the, the lyrics are so, um, I don't know, for a message in a bottle, for instance, like a mute, a song like that, which is so dense, lyrically, and it's such an incredible satisfying on their own, the near than, don't even need such a great message and so resonant.

You know, there's no one method to, to, to write a song. You can start with the lyric, you can start with a riff or a series of chords or a melody that suddenly floats into your head. But I have to remind myself every time I, I want to write a song that all of them, even the most successful ones, began as a tiny kernel of an idea, just, you know, something that intrigued me, a novelty, an interval, you know, a, a flattened fifth or, or something very tiny, and then I built

built on it, bit by bit, and they weren't masterpieces until you did a lot of work on them. Yeah, does, does that? Yeah, but, but that's not, like, I'm sorry, just to, I, I'm, now the one message on a bottle, I'm thinking about it. For me, that's always been one of those songs that, that really sort of captures that, the spirit of loneliness, especially at the end, when you sort of say, you know, it talks about sending it out and then woke up this morning,

can't believe what I saw. Yeah. Hundred billion bottles, wash up on the short, and I always

love the lines. Seems I'm not alone at being alone. And it just, like, that always, I mean,

“it's, it's as impactful to me today as the first time I heard it. And I wonder if you remember”

writing that and where were you were at when you wrote a song like that? I was living in base water in a basement flat and not the terribly salubious part of London. And I wrote that guitarist, the message in the bottle thing, and I'm thinking, what is, what is this about? What is it? And I was feeling low-abbed, and thinking, I feel like I'm shipwrecked. And then, I'm a castaway here, because, yeah, I wasn't successful at the time, I was struggling to

make a living, I got London with a dream and it wasn't being realized immediately, so this was from that period then. And I'd only be singing it to the dog. It would occasionally wag a tail, but that was it. That was the other audience. Yeah. You know, when you say that all these, no matter

what the song is, it always starts with just a little kernel. Does that then ever put you in a place

of, like, are you ever able to relax for fear of missing a little kernel that might come by? Just walking down the street, making some sort of observation, or hearing something somebody might say, or thinking of a little bit of a tune, are you ever able to just turn off the radar?

“It's important to keep a notebook, I think, so you can wake up with a melody in your head.”

Do you have a little tiny notebook, or do you use, like, your iPhone now? I'd well, yeah, note to my iPhone. Do you ever dream melodies? I wake up with melodies in my head. I do too sometimes when I'm too lazy to do anything about it. Usually the melody from Benny Hill. What do you do when you wake up with a melody? How do you remember it, you hum it into, like, voice notes? I should do that, yeah. I won't get back to sleep.

If I wake up with a melody, I will not be able to sleep. I go down and sit with a guitar and say, okay, go back to going to London for the first time when you were a teacher and then

and it inspired you? Like, how did you, what drove you to think, you know what? I have to go to London and pursue this. There was no way to do what I wanted to do in my, my turn. There was no template for that at all. And you knew that? Yeah, you had to go to London. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. Okay. And so, you know, I auditioned for to sing in Cocktail bars and they'd say, "Well, we want you to top 40 hits. I thought, I don't know any top 40 hits, but I've got a

song on my own." And I'd sing every little thing she does as magic and the guy would say, "Well, it's not a hit, isn't it?" So it's not yet. Yeah. I didn't get that job. Wow. That's amazing. That's amazing. Wow. Since you started on the guitar, when was the transition to base? Was that simply because the guy, I forget I forget his name when you started with with Stuart that Andy later replaced? Oh, was it because he wanted to play guitar and you pivoted in the place? No, I just,

“I think it's a very, very astute choice to make. If you want to be a band leader,”

because I sing the top line. Yeah. And because I play the bottom line,

the rest of the band has to operate literally within my band width. And as a base player, you can change the harmony. Very, very profoundly. The piano player or the guitarist can be playing a C chord. If I play a G below that, I've completely altered the harmony, so I'm in control. It's a very subtle way of controlling. It's very, it's very, it's very profound. Wow. I'd love to. One six four or one six four or five six five or one chord. Exactly. In versions of the

heart of my music, I think I love that. Not the versions. In versions. I don't, I'm not musically educated enough to normay to normay. But in two seconds, you get learned C, E, G is a G chord. And if you take the G and you put it in the bottom, all of a sudden, that's a one six four.

“If you're a piano, I could show you in two seconds. You guys would learn so fast. That's what”

jazz will come in when you listen to you. Yeah. I think my thing on jazz is it's kind of, I said it's sort of offending. It's a running joke to like, I can't, that my friend Mark

Chaplin, I always have, which Chapey shout out to Jamie, whether it's cool to say you like it

or cool to say you don't, it's just a joke, but it's actually, and his son is at school taking jazz in London. But I do, I think I don't appreciate it enough, and I probably don't know enough about it. I'll tell you a story. And I was, I was 14. I was a, I was called a grammar school. I got a scholarship to study there. It's like, in the kind of a lead school for poor kids. And I would take my guitar and one or enough the noon, I was playing in the classroom and this older kid came up and said,

you're good. He said, do you like jazz? I said, I don't, I don't know. He said, I'm going to give you something, and he gave me an album. He said, listen to it tonight. You won't like it, but listen to it tomorrow night and the next night and the next night and then you will learn something. So he gave me philonious monk playing live solo at an Olympia in Paris, right? So I put it on. He was right. I don't like it. Kind of really angular weird harmony shit. I thought put it on the next night,

little better. By the third night, I'd opened up a part of my brain that had been closed.

“And I think it's about exposure to difficult harmony. Without that exposure, you can't hear it.”

You go, oh, it sounds terrible. But once you open it, it's the sweetest place to be. Yeah, it's not literally running this day. What is the, I'm also a musical moron, but the stuff that you can easily follow that you can tap your toe to is what, four, four time? Is that, is that right? I mean common time. Yeah. Most, most part of me is written

in four four. Yes. Right. And then so, is it, what is, what is the one that is always

surprises you? Is that was that like what third? Well, it could be five four, which is like take five is written in five four or I like seven eight seven beats in a bar or like nine eight. And to ding dogs like me, it always sounds like it's a mistake. Like how did you keep missing this? Yeah, but three four is a wall. But then to your point, staying, you, it ends up making you a better listener. It trains you. You learn how to appreciate something. It's a bit more sophisticated

Um, I think the, the brain is split in two as, as you know, one part of the brain analyzes or processes very simple intervals, like thirds and fifths. The, the other part of the brain analyzes more complex intervals and more complex rhythms. So unless you've opened one side of the brain or not, and the clothes that are, if you, you will not be able to appreciate difficult music. Yeah, and most people don't appreciate those nuances in the seven eight and the five four and

“the six nine and whatever this. I'll do. I think if I'm jamming with a guitar, I've been very”

be playing in seven. I don't know it. Jake, you know, do you know this, I'm this, you're going to make fun of me. Do you know the score of a Vita at all? Uh, I, I do. I, I'll bet I would. Yeah, you told it to me. There's one song that I can't remember. Like, as Roland Roland Roland Roland 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, that's seven eight, right? Yeah, yeah, that sounds like a west side story one, or yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a little bit like syncopated. You know,

sting the first time I ever saw, I was a kid when MTV started and one of the first things I ever saw

was synchronicity to video, which is still fresh in my mind and I love that song. I love that video. Were you someone who embraced the, uh, the advent of video as it marries to, to audio and, and songs?

“Or did you like, oh God, I got to do this video. Like, did you hate it? Or did you enjoy it?”

I think British bands had, uh, distinct advantage in the advent of MTV. Because there was only one kind of pop show in England. It was called "Top of the Pops." It was a charge show. Yeah. And if you, if you got into the top 20, you, you, you could perform on the show. And if you're a record one up, you'd perform the next week. But if you were on tour, you had to make a video. So it was, and they'd show the video. So we had all of these, uh, examples of videos we'd made when we

couldn't turn up to, to actually do the show. The immediately went on to MTV. So we were well

practiced. Oh, wow. So that was, uh, the second British invasion was due to that fact.

Was that the, was that cool? Could that be, was that the first time you were in front of the camera? And, and started to, maybe even have the, the spark of act. No, no, uh, I said I had a lot of jobs. I was trying to make a living in London. I modeled for a while. And I was, I went to an advertising

“agency. And I was modeling a, I think it was some kind of jewelry thing. And I was a punk. And it”

was shot by Ridley Scott. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. You had a company called RSA. Sure. And I did a lot of work for them as a kind of model on film. But we thought, so these were these, was it print, were these, were stills, or was it, uh, no, this, this was, this was for, uh, advertising in cinemas. So in the movies. So then, so then the, the concept of striking a pose, making a face conveying a mood, a tone through movement, through expression, body language, et cetera. That was, that was

interesting to you. Did it, what did it have anything to do with performing on stage when you're doing music? Like, I guess what I'm, I'm sort of proud. I'm trying to, what is your attraction to acting and does it, is it a cousin to what you like doing on stage? I think I've been posing my time. We all, we all do it. We all do it. Yeah. You know, I think I invented blue steel, frankly. Yeah, you are, you are the originator of many things. Yeah, because I was in in Zulanda, too,

as well. Yeah. Yeah. With, uh, Mr. Justin Thoreau, we had a lot to do with those. Yeah. Who, actually proposed in my house? Yeah. And he said to me, do you think I should marry this girl? I said, well, if you don't, I will. Is that true? Did he really propose in your house? What do I lie to you? No, it's true. He comes to stay with us uniddly in the, in Tuscany. At the way. What, um, you know, it's funny, the police, I mean, how many records did you

guys release you five and five years? Is that right? Or like that? I don't remember. But yeah, something like that. I mean, it's, I mean, it's really, you, I think your last was your last record, uh, this is secreticity? Thank goodness. Yes, it was. And that was like 1983. Yeah.

Wait, that was the last? Yeah. I know, isn't that, isn't that amazing? Yeah. But then, but then

and all your, a stratosphere. So that's correct. Of course. And, and, do you, did it feel like you were going into a different fate? Like, did it feel totally different coming out of being

“part of a band? And then going out in your own, was it just like a, um, what was that like?”

Again, it was kind of strategic, you know, I, I kind of kind of, kind of intuitive. You know, why would you leave the biggest band in the world at, at its peak? Yeah. So well, after this, everything's going to be diminishing returns. I want to start the adventure again and take that risk. And also,

if I don't leave now, I'll never be able to leave. Yeah. Um, you know, I mean, I love the stones,

the stones are fantastic. But they are welded together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I wanted to leave the band before I, that world was entirely. Right. I just wanted to some freedom. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the music, while it, while it was, um, um, different, it, it still, there was, there was always a complexity to what you guys were doing. Just as a, a three-man band.

“And, and when you went off and created another band, yes, it was, it was titled just your name.”

But the, the musicians you put together, we're just incredible. And that band, as a unit, made some incredibly complicated music. I was so glad to see that, um, what was the name of the documentary of the recording of Dream of the Blue Turtles? I'm running on the night. Bring on the night. Oh, fuck. I love that movie. And watching you guys, it's some gorgeous Chateau or, or man, a man or something. It was just watching you guys do what you did. Um, there was such a, yes, you were

the leader. But the, the, the, the sharing, the, the camaraderie that, that you, that you, that you created with them, it was so nice to see you guys all working together as co-equals to create

what you guys did. You know, one of my strategies has always been to play with musicians who are

better than me, so that I would have to raise my game. Uh, that was true. The police, that, that's true. With the Blue Turtles and it's true now. Yeah, yeah. I'm still struggling. I'm still struggling to maintain my position because, uh, high people though way better than me. Yeah. Yeah. So, talk, talk to us about that, about about 3.0, um, and about what, uh, what excited you about, um, creating that and what's, what's, what's the goal there? The goal was, um, really to strip

the songs down to their bare skeletal form and see if there was still 30 enough to stand without all that flesh on it. And low and behold, there's so much, uh, air around the instruments and clarity that it is both louder and quieter at the same time. The, the dynamics are much more extreme. Meaning, meaning that you've taken just the 3, 3, 3 th fellas and you've stripped away a bunch of other things. And when you say the songs, you're talking about songs that include,

the entirety of your, of your career or just recently or what? Just take, take away the keyboard parts or the layered synthesize the parts of the strings and you're just left with guitar based drums and a voice. Yeah. It's amazing how sturdy those songs are. I bet. I mean, it's just a testament to, to, to them themselves, you know, the songs themselves. What, are you still on tour with that? Yeah, in between the, in between shows with the last ship, um, I'm touring with a band.

Yeah, you're trying to keep both, both things in there because I love them both. You just announced

“new dates, right? Um, I think there's going to be a domestic, uh, or a US tour in May. I want to say,”

yeah, I'm May. And May and then the, the Vemba. Wow. I'm coming back for the midterms. We need you. Well, be right back. All right, back to the show. Mixed in all of this, it should be noted, uh, you, you've, you've, you've spent a lot of your time throughout your, your life devoted to activism for a lot of different causes. Yeah. Like, like,

serious. Well, yeah, you, I remember the, the, what was it? The, the, the, the, the, the, the secret, uh, the secret, the secret, the secret, please. The other ball, uh, part of that. I was the first time you performed solo. Is that correct? Well, first time since I became famous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it was that. Band-aid in all these, and then you've continued to amnesty and

stuff over the years. Where does that sort of fit in your life? Well, I've always had a social conscience,

you know, I, I think, uh, as a member of society, you, you have a debt to society.

it's, it's never been a question for me that that I wouldn't be involved in issues like that. And, uh,

“it's the lab. Um, I mean, I don't write songs that are propaganda. You know, I'm always looking”

for a metaphor that I can express an idea in without just saying that you're good and you're bad. I have to have a metaphor. How are we doing in some of those, um, some of those areas that that you're passionate about, the rainforest and, and, and, and others? Um, well, it's pretty bleak to be honest with you. Uh, you know, we, um, protected an area of the rainforest, my wife and I, the size of Belgium and, um, the Netherlands. And then with the Bolsonaro government that they just

made incursions into that protectorate. Um, and so yeah, it's, it's bleak. It's not, it's not a good,

not a good picture of them. Do you think that speaking of AI, do you, do you see AI is something

that could be helpful, um, in something like that? Well, I mean, if it's truly intelligent, it will tell us to stop burning the rainforest. Right. Stop polluting our rivers and right, you know. And it may come up with some sort of an alternative. I get why you're burning it because you need acts, but here's another way you could get acts. Yeah, maybe that would be a useful, a useful, of your medical research. I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. We'll just, I'm really, I'm implanting your optimism,

“right now. Yeah. I believe this is a new, I did see, I think I'm telling you guys about the”

documentary, I saw the other day. I want to give a little plug to you who's so fantastic. He's called

the AI document, the AI doc, can't wait. But the subtitle of how I became an apocalypticist.

And it's, it's about, it's about a guy who's about to have a child. And he is simply taking the position of the layman and saying to all of these experts, should I be worried about having a kid coming into this world, given what we're hearing? Should I be bullish or pessimistic about AI's contribution to society and mankind? And it was, it was not only a really entertaining document, but super educational, and I did come out the other side optimistic. And so I would ask

our guest here, you know, maybe specifically to music, but also just in general, if you're, if you're willing to give us your, your hot take on what you think AI's going to, going to do for us. Well, I'll speak about my field, talk about music. You know, AI can create perfectly serviceable pop music that you would hear in a hotel lobby or an airport. But there's a difference between listening to something and hearing something. Something you're hear that in an airport.

I will know it's AI almost immediately. But will I listen to it? No, what I'm listening for in a piece of music spread by human being is that human being has lived the life that human being has had its heart broken, has, has been in love. Machine can't do that. Machine doesn't have a family history, good or bad. It's just a set of, you know, other people's memories. So I don't

“think we are in danger of losing that. I think people will know that this is a machine that's”

singing to them and it's not real. I hope so anyway. And do you think that maybe, hopefully one of the bi-products will be that people will really celebrate and really, there will be a premium for live experiences with other human beings. Like that will be hopefully one of the bi-products. I agree. Also, you know, you're competing with a kind of perfectionism that machines can give you. Now, I think artists in the 19th century visual artists were challenged

by the invention of photography, that create reality in such a detailed way. So instead of trying to compete, they created the impressionist movement where they were painting objects anymore, they were painting the light around objects. And that, I think human beings will sidestep that perfection to create something like that. Yeah, it's almost going back to what we're talking about with jazz. It's jazz by intention and by definition is improvisational and is meant to sort

of mess it up a little bit. Like, you know, you can play the four, four time and make it all work, but it takes a real master to kind of identify the gray areas around that and kind of bend it and tweak it a little bit. And then re-erive it something that's perhaps a little bit more predictable and then break it again and yeah. I doubt a computer would be able to be that we have to go. We have to go through whatever phase this is and humanity of this AI to come back and

vinyl's back. Like, everything comes back, you know, and I think about vinyl. I mean, when we went to

compressed sound and all that. Yeah, that effect. I mean, we kind of enjoyed it. I liked CDs, but there's something uncanny about digital silence instead of that white hissing noise you got a little record on. It's kind of comforting. Yeah. Digital silence is very spooky. It's kind of like film, too, right? Yeah. You actually see film, you see some of the hair and some of the noise on the image, whereas the digital. And also the experience of going out when I was a kid

and for giving me again for going out and buying one of your records and the day it came out and cutting the, the, the, the, the, the plastic on it and you know, the selfie and then taking it out and putting it on the record player and looking at the lyrics and singing that was the only connection that you had and it was so exciting. Yeah. You know, like I just went out and I got the new thing record. I got the new police record. Like, you know, that experience where we're robbing

ourselves of these experiences was an entire world. You know, I mean, you can, you can stream songs number. They don't tell you who played bass on them. Right. We tell you, you know, with the engineer, you know, where it was made. It's just, it's just a product like coffee. It's a commodity. So you need that information on an album covers satisfied an entire generation of which I'm

“part of. Remember that. That was our world. Yeah. You'd listen and stare at the stare at the album”

cover for hours as you really, to every detail of it. I did that with the carpenters. He's still listening to the carpenters. So I'm going to sing a we ever going to see you do some, some, some acting again, because you're a great actor. You must get my blades. I'm in my, yes. And I'm going to come see that. I'll be the guy in front, heckling and touching. Will you go see him back stage,

Jason? I'm going to go on to come see you back stage, which I always find is a little sweaty, but

I'm told that's, that's what the polite thing is to do. Do you like that? Do you like people come at stage? Yeah, I do. What you do? You're not exhausted and you just want to go home or you want no one at your nation. I will. All right. I'm going to come back. I'm just going to take you to follow. You need to know that this is a thing for Jason that we have for years about the question as to whether or not to go back stage. What about after a concert? Oh. Yeah. Well,

“actually, you should leave the building immediately in case they want their money back. So yeah.”

With the last, the last shot, they don't, they just come in. Yeah. So it's a thing, you know, we just listed all of the things that you do and that you don't, it just seems like you're the hardest working person in the world. I mean, what do you, did you say haughtles looking? Well, I'm just, I'm just working. I'm just working. I'm just working. I'm just working. I'll take back. I'll take part in the first, I'm just looking. Just with all the charity work you do,

all the concerts you do, all the, you're doing a live, so you're doing a tour, you're just, you're

writing more out. It's just endless. It's incredible. Like you said, your work ethic is just incredible.

The question you do is, yeah, when are you an idiot? Yeah. What do you, what do you do? What do you do that's just dumb and shit? And, you know, agreeing to do this show? Yeah. You were a great, great, great, great, must be a man. You saw the title of it. You said perfect. That's me. Small, less. Like, do you have any, any, any, guilty sort of, that my brain needs to rest and, and do? Of course I do. But I'm not going to tell you. Oh, no, you got to tell us. Sean likes

candy crush on his phone. Yeah. I have no idea what that is. Yeah, some dumb little brains. Good. But I would imagine, or is it, or is it just nice long walks with a great charity, charity styler and just, you know, I'm very gifted in life. I have this beautiful woman who's been my partner for 45 years. That's like, you know, since the second world war, we just have a great time. Yeah. I mean, I honestly have for six weeks, actually, because I'm going to Australia,

tomorrow, to do the last ship. So, well, that's too long. Right? It's too long. You guys have a, like, a two week roll, like the rest of us. You, you, you, good about it. Normally, but this, this is a long, a long period. So, yeah. Yeah. It's a long time. What do you think about doing the show night after night? Like, I would say that what the hardest part is, if, if you're feeling like

“shit or, or you're got a stomach ache or your headache or whatever you have to keep, you have to go on.”

You know, there are two plays going on with the last ship. There's one that's on stage at the audience sees. There's another one behind the stage. You meet little clicks in, behind stage at a certain point in the play. And that's when you sing along with the person in front of the stage. Or you

have a hand clapping competition. There's a little rituals that, you never stop. You're doing both

have you played the mat before? I've, I've, I've performed at the mat with, with my band a couple of

times. Okay. This is the first time I've actually been in a play and the mat. And it's a massive

theatre. But the set of the play is so huge. We have recreating a shipyard. And it, it's has an

“operatic scale, which is, and it's not an opera, but it has an operatic scale. But also, I think it”

has the emotional ambition of an opera. It's a very emotional place. I can't wait to see this. Yeah. And, and so did the, did the, did the, did the, did the sets change for the mat, where are they built bigger? Are they more dramatic? Are they more operatic? Because of that venue? They're bigger, because of the venue. We, we thought of that an Amsterdam and then we were in Paris in massive halls. And it really works. What about, what about writing an opera, or writing a symphony?

Is that, is any of that interesting to you? It's based. I'm, I'm a songwriter and the, the last ship is a song cycle, you know, with the, with the theatrical component to it. But it's, it's the right an opera. Yeah. I'm not qualified to do that. But yeah. So that feels like a pretty hard no. I'm just remembering staying. You're performance in one of my favorite films, Valtz. I just has a, which is quadrophenia. Well, I was in, in the film, long enough to make an impression, but not long enough to blow it.

“So, no, it's a, it's such a great film. It's such a, have you guys ever seen that quadrophenia?”

I had little pieces. Yeah. I, I wouldn't love to see more acting on you. Yeah. Well, that was, that was during the period when I was modeling and just doing anything. You know, trying to get a gig in the cocktail bar. So I would do anything. And this Asian call me, it was said, "Do you want to go for quadrophenia?" I said, "No, I'm washing my hair." But she said, "No, go." So, I loved, I loved the original tune. I loved you and the original tune. You've seen the new ones? Yeah. Yeah, pretty cool.

Yeah, pretty cool. I think, Austin Butler was playing me and the new one. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It was great. Well, to hear some guys, to hear some guys sing. Yeah, that's right. I mean, the version wasn't as calm as I was. I have to tell you. Yeah, that was David Lynch wasn't it? Yeah. Well, I can't thank you enough for spending time with us and letting us peek behind the curtain a bit with your, your brilliance, your accomplishments. I mean, is there, is there, is there anything

we should keep our knees bent for that you're going to try to also perfect? I mean,

everything you've done, it's all been so different and so incredible, is there, is there a challenge

“for you out there left? I think the basis of all art, not to be pretentious, but it is surprise.”

In a composition, you want to surprise people within four bars or, you know, a piece of writing, you want to surprise people within the first few sentences. So I'm hoping to surprise myself about what, what is next? I don't know what is next, but I have to have surprise. I have to have novelty. I have a very low threshold for boredom. Yeah, yeah. So I need to be surprised. Yeah, and I would imagine I hope the answer to this is yes, that you will have allowed yourself to be satisfied and yet

even proud of what you've done and that you need not prove anything to yourself or to us and that it's just all just sort of for fun going forward. Do you allow yourself the observation

of accomplishment? I mean, it's just been incredible. I mean, I'm a very fortunate man in every

important field. Yeah, I have a family, I have a wife out of Korea. Yeah, I've been, I've been very fortunate. Well, we're very fortunate to receive it all. So thank you, I'm pleased to ask you about, I mean, I mean, when I meet somebody like you, it's so massively iconic. I just want to talk you about how every, what's the story behind every song that you have heard? I know, it would take hours and hours. You know what? I do a show on my own in a smaller venues where

it falls the opportunity to give context to the songs. Wow. Okay, I wrote it in the flat and base wardrobe. This, this was what inspired me or how it was written. And I think that context makes the songs richer. Yeah. But you can't, you can't do that in an arena or a stadium, obviously. But in a small place or maybe a hundred people, you can really create the world that the

I did more than two weeks ago. Oh, man, I want to come and see that. Yeah, is that, that's not, that's not staying three point. Oh, is it? Do we need some of that in that? It's just sometimes I'll do a one off, just to do an hour of my songs and stories. I'll just see that. Ooh, that would be good. I would like that. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the time. Yeah. Thank you. I'll, I'll be banging on your dressing room door in a couple of months. Pretend you remember me. Please

do. I might be with them. All right. Well, you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you again for joining us. I'm going to come from. Yeah, you can just slam a shot. Really appreciate the time staying. Good luck with, uh, with Sting 3.0 and the last ship. That was fun. Thank you so much. All right, cheers, me. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Wow, Jason. Yeah, how about that? Yeah. Wow. When you when he popped up,

what when you said, how many grant? Grammys, he won. Seven, three. Grammys, a hundred million records.

“That's unbelievable. I mean, he's, I think he's like close to Egot level and, and just he's”

across as I, as I said, he literally started in 1969. So that was a year I was born. Um, and as young as I can remember, uh, he has been the guy and, and as across all of my years of music appreciation, every single year, I've like listening to music. He's had music that I love listening to. I love that. Yeah. That's great. Well, 1969 was the year he started, he started, he started performing. The, you know, with the police or, uh, well, no, uh, started performing, uh, a music. I guess

this is a kid or learning, but he's like, he's 78, I think. Oh, okay. I think that, yeah, it sounds about something like that. How do you know that? Well, because I'm, you know, I, I crazy, yeah, all those records were just so important. I mean, you're like, everybody, I'm not, I'm not unique in that way. And even if you're not a fan, which I can't believe anybody isn't, you know,

“all his songs. Right. Of course. You know, they're all different. No, one of his songs sounds”

like the last. Right. It's crazy. Yeah. And all, and just the, the police alone, the fact that it was just three of them too, making all those different sounds. And, um, I don't know, uh, he's, um, he's really, really impressive. And, and, and, and I, I'm serious, I would love to see more acting out of him. He says, I know, great presence and, um, uh, stillness to, uh, to his, to his acting style, which I'm a big, big fan of. Um, but yeah, what it, you know, I was thinking about, and I was, you know,

doing, you know, my brief, uh, research, uh, before the interview, um, this, this is a perfect example of how freaking lucky the three of us are. I know. I thought that right when he popped this podcast, you're like, you know, he's been the same. Right. I mean, this guy's been like, I've just, I was a little, little guy when he was like, a god to me. And he still is. And like,

“now we get to have him on our show. Like, I remember seeing, seeing the police at the Hollywood”

Hollywood Park, um, this race track here. And, you know, being a mile from the stage, because that's a closest tickets I could get. And there's like the biggest rock star in the world. That far,

I'll never get anywhere near somebody like, now I, so we get to know these folks. Yeah, I mean,

I didn't even have that. I was like sitting the living room with my sisters, like listening to the records on the record player. Yeah. And listen, like the snapcrackle pop of the record. Totally. Imagine if Karen Carpenter was still alive. Oh, show. Anyway, moving on. Yeah. It's, uh, ever addressed. Really, really. So lucky. Um, I know. I felt that right when he came on, jab was like, wow, this is just incredible. A big thank you to those of you who are

listening that make it possible for us thing dogs to have these childhood dreams come true. Yeah. Thank you. We are very, we are, we, he said, he's very fortunate. We are very fortunate

that we get to spend time with these incredible people. And yeah, we're, we're very fortunate

a lot of ways. And, and that is a really a big one. And, uh, we're, we're, put it this way. We're We're not very hard done by... Oh hard and bad. Hard done by... Hard done by...

Hard done by... Done by... We're done by... Smartless is 100% organic, and are tizantly handcrafted by... Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjorv, and Bennett Barbarco.