S10 E5: Historias

it out.

This week, we're asking if silence is golden, which is quite the question for two comedians,

and this goes without saying, "Listen wherever you get your podcasts." This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to suicide. Please take care while listening. So, I'm driving through Playa Cocoa looking for this red taxi driver, it's dark here,

and there's a particular tax driver I'm looking for, I know his cab number, I know he looks like, and I know his name. Playa Cocoa at night is different, wilder and more unpredictable. I've been looking for this red cab for a while.

They're all numbered, and the driver of this specific one is popular with expats, because

he can speak English pretty well. I'm wondering what his reaction will be if I start talking to him about Jackie.

“Trying to find one specific cab, four years later, may seem like a long shot, but I think”

it's one well worth the taking. I'm just putting it in the downtown area now. I've lost the last speed bump before I get in the town. If Jackie went to Wazan the cab and her driver remembers where he took her, that could really help, especially the timing of that.

It could also corroborate story and narrative that we've been hearing or high have heard. I just got to figure it out, I got to ask this driver if I can find him. I'm going to have to go park somewhere, let's see if I can find the right cab. Hey, did you see Jackie on the way to do it? You got to go right up and ask people, see if I can find downtown, play a cookbook, it shouldn't

be impossible to find this cab. Okay, dancing, and it's the right cab tucked in on a loud and busy corner. I walk right up from the front so I make sure he can see me approaching. The driver's window is open so I stick my head in so I can be heard. Are you working today? I got a question for you, I'm doing a documentary on somebody

that disappeared from this area back in 2021, from the Kachikari up there, the development. Kachikari? Yeah, Kachikari. Her name was Jacqueline, Jacqueline, and I'm just trying to, somebody said they saw her in a red cab, but I'm trying to figure out if anybody, if there's a way I can find out

if he was working that night, that's a red cab driver, it would have August 2021. No, but in Kachikari, they'll remember anybody, they got a driver, you get that. So you didn't hear anybody say that they drove a woman name? From Kachikari? No, I don't know anybody, right, but from Kachikari?

Yeah, but you know who I'm talking about, the woman that disappeared, the Canadian woman?

“I remember the young woman that I can see in the pictures and everything, yeah?”

Yeah, yeah. He immediately knows exactly what I'm talking about. Jackie's face was posted all over Coco in the wake of her disappearance. Yeah, I say, I have ear things.

But nobody ever said, I remember taking that girl somewhere to you, you never heard

anybody say that. No, no. And you didn't pick her up that night. Really? I don't know exactly.

For example, I remember I saw the poster, yeah, the poster? Yeah, yeah, for the gear, but I don't remember her hair, yeah, because I don't know her. Yeah. This man says he didn't see Jackie or hear about her from other cab drivers. But I still want to look a little further in the cab trade.

“But did one of them see her or have Jackie in their cab that night?”

We already know cab companies in Coco don't keep a log of passengers.

We send Jackie's photo around the cab driver network, but none say they saw her or drove her.

There are about 12 red cabs in the area now and we're reportedly about 18 in the area in 2021. Unificial or pirate cabs exist, but are usually black, gray, or white, not red in color.

“If someone wants to call a cab, do they call you directly or do they call a cab company?”

All the way, they call to the dispatcher or sometimes they call out to our server. Diego is a well-known red cab driver in the area and he says he knew Jackie and Sebastian as customers. Do you think that a taxi driver and Coco who's been probably driven by a local Costa Rican could get away with doing something to a gringo like a white person down there? Well, I don't think so. I'm driving only daytime and there's another group coming on night. There's another sheep.

So I know them, but I don't know them the way I know my bodies in a daytime.

And do you think that word would get out though? I mean, if something happened, do you think that someone would tell someone like, is it a pretty tight group, do you guys talking? Yes, yes, they will. We try to help people here. People who work in a pool of services, they like to help tourists. Because they're helping us with what a economy is, you know what I'm saying? Waro Jackie's neighbor says she saw Jackie on an arred cab.

“Wouldn't any cabby who dropped Jackie off be desperate to tell the world where he did so for fear of being implicated?”

And why would Jackie take a cab this time if her car was parked in the garage?

And we know from security guards she used to walk everywhere.

Would she take a cab to pursue a side? If I know something hurt you don't let you know. Thanks very much Diego. Any direction? Okay, bye bye. Sebastian says he and Jackie didn't take taxis because they had a scooter and a car.

And the Jackie didn't have a preferred cab driver on speed dial. Also, according to Sebastian, other people did see Jackie in downtown Playa Coco in the following days.

“That would mean she did leave the house that night, whether in a taxi or not.”

I'll have to find these people and speak to them myself. I'm David Ridgen, and this is season 10 of someone knows something. The Jacqueline Firlen Smith case, episode 5. Historias. Sitting at the side of the road here in a little town in the mountains.

Took me a couple hours to get here. Got up at five early morning, sitting in front of a mega super store waiting for a guy named Keith to get here. Keith is another Canadian who used to live in Coco. He used to be a chef at the Coco not restaurant. And he may have may have seen Jacqueline in the days or on a day after she disappeared from her house.

Sebastian suggested three people I talk to who he says saw Jackie after she left their house on the evening of August 17, 2021. I've already spoken to Oro, who was returning with her husband from the San Jose airport, and I still need to find a waitress named Carol, who worked at a restaurant in Playa Coco. And then there's Keith, a chef who worked at coconuts, who should be arriving any minute now. My difficulty with sightings.

If Jacqueline was seen in downtown Coco by anybody including Keith, why didn't many people see her in downtown Coco. It's just heading across to see this dude. Pretty noisy spotter. It's okay.

Hey, alright, nice to see you, Keith. Thanks for doing this. Keith is from Kitchener, Ontario and Susie's been here in Costa Rica for 17 years working mostly in Kitchens. He's now a cook at a brew pub type place in Bihagua, about a two hour drive in line of Playa Coco. Keith's in a light gray baseball cap with a red maple leaf, gray sweat top, and black tartan pattern shorts. Okay, so just tell me who you are as we go here and how you kind of fit into the story here.

Okay, you're a chef for Cook.

Okay, and they would always come in, Sebastian and Jacqueline.

Yeah, both of them would always be in there talking. Okay, one day I saw on the cash register, there was a flyer saying she was missing. Um, that's the people that come in here all the time. Okay, so you knew what she looked like. She knew that the person who was with Sebastian, you knew that she was Jacqueline, and that what she looked like.

“Yeah, so then, like how is it that you made this sighting?”

I was just standing in front of the back of liquor store after working. I have a drink, so I was just having my drink there, and I saw this girl across the street. He pulled up in a car, who did Sebastian? Oh, and it started asking me questions and all this, and have you seen her? People have said they've seen her around here. Oh, no, I saw this crazy girl walking around here.

Is that could be her? She had blonde curly hair though. So the person you saw was not Jacqueline? No, because it was blonde curly hair. Quite tightly curled her back.

So Keith didn't see Jacqueline after all. But he does offer his opinions about Sebastian at the time. And Sebastian was saying, "Well, if it was wet, we could have gone out of the shower, it would have been curly." Well, apparently this girl had been down there and they said, "Yes, he was a little crazy, but her parents came and took her back home."

“And so Sebastian was the first person to come and ask you if you'd seen her around?”

Yeah, okay, yeah, okay. And if you ask you any other questions about her, just say that could be her and then leave. That was pretty much it. That could be her, kind of talked a little bit. And like, how are you doing?

Any lockies? I don't know. I think there was about three or four people that had said they saw her at the liquor store where I was. And they saw her walking down into her speech, which was the same direction this girl was going in. This other woman that Keith saw is allegedly named Jocelyn.

I have seen a photo of her and while she has similarities with Jackie and her slimness and her hair color, even height, Jocelyn has a large tattoo on her hand, curly hair and her face is not Jackie's. Despite that, Jocelyn was the subject of some mistaken identity sightings in the aftermath of Jackie's disappearance. Jocelyn was seen drinking around play a cocoa in the bars and on the beach. Keith wonders why Jackie wouldn't have been seen if she was in fact in cocoa after she disappeared.

And if there's a picture at the coconut's bar and she walked by the coconut's bar, where she'd always go in a drink.

Yes. And nobody noticed? Yeah. Yeah. Kind of odd to me.

“Did you hear anything else in the aftermath about stories?”

You know, I'm not talking about rumors, but any kind of credible stories about what might have happened to her or anything like that? No. Keith tells me that he doesn't buy Sebastian's story that Jackie just wandered away and disappeared. Okay. I mean, that's it.

I mean, you have been raised as one of the big eyewitnesses of maybe having seen her. I know. It seems odd to me, especially being, I've already said that it wasn't her and it was curly blonde hair. I believe it's Sebastian building a story to try and do this to cover up whatever he did. Okay.

That's my opinion. Keith messages me a few weeks after I see him in Costa Rica to tell me that Sebastian showed up with some friends writing what he says were harley's at Keith's mountain restaurant, not long after I left. That's a two hour drive from Pia del Cocoa. Keith says Sebastian came to the restaurant and sat drinking beers for a bit, then walked out looking to the kitchen door at Keith. Sebastian said hi and Keith replied hi, then Sebastian left with his friends.

Keith says he has never seen Sebastian there before.

Sebastian tells me when I asked him that he was just having a beer with friends at Keith's bar in Bihagua and didn't know Keith worked there. What's up? Hello. Carol is the last of the three people Sebastian told me he had seen Jackie after she disappeared from the house on August 17, 2021. Carol, a local, used to work at the Santa Rini restaurant in Pia Cocoa.

They were always coming there, always a couple that looked in love. Hello, Carol, we're talking to people who say they saw Jackie after she disappeared. We were told you saw her.

I used to work at a restaurant called Santa Rini, it's in Pia Cocoa, central.

They would always come eat there.

Always a couple that looked in love and relaxed. On the day I saw her, I had gone to the liquor store to buy some cookies and some snacks to share with my coworkers. So I was at the register paying and I looked toward the door and thought I saw her. Carol sees someone she thinks is Jackie waiting outside. Since I recognized her, I greeted her with a wave just a simple hand wave, but when I went outside, she was no longer there.

She had to get out of the river.

Did she say hi back? She smiled at me.

“The all-important question is if this was Jackie when was this sighting?”

Yes, it was exactly the same, but I honestly don't remember exactly, but I saw her alone that day, like standing at the liquor store by herself. I didn't see her with her husband. When some days later, Carol sees a Facebook post about Jackie going missing, she messages calling in Gordon and tells them she might have seen Jackie and mentions that there is video surveillance at the store.

They should check the cameras.

See all that chase? No confirmed sightings? Yeah. No on camera? No confirmed sightings. Police didn't see Jackie on tape. Carol says she went more than once to the store around this time, and wonders if the Oij was looking at the right day.

Both Carol and Keith's recollections add up to some great uncertainty.

“Did Carol see Jackie? Did she see her after August 17th?”

If Carol saw the same blonde woman that others reported seeing near the liquor store, we now know that it was probably not Jackie. The Oij files says that they looked into all reports of Jackie being seen, but determined that there were no credible sightings ever after August 17th, stating these sightings were investigated and discarded. Was the Oij thorough and meticulous? I received a message personally from a woman who said that they didn't want to give their name because they were afraid, but she said that she personally met Jacqueline at a local bar.

Jackie's friend Krista says there was one sighting that seemed very intriguing to her, next to a local watering hole on the beach called Claudia Egloria's. This woman who sent me the message said that she was there that day, and that Jacqueline was sitting with a group of males, one of them being a guy named Michael, and that the woman had introduced herself to Jacqueline.

“And she said that Jacqueline was sitting there quietly, not much to say, well, the guys were like drinking and laughing, and so she said that she introduced herself.”

And the woman said that her name was Jackie. And she said that Jacqueline said that she was from Canada, and then the Michael guy cut off the conversation. He had said that Jackie was his girlfriend, and then he cut off the conversation between the two women. Now this would have been before Jacqueline went home for supper, because this was during the day, like around three, two or three in the afternoon. Okay.

So I told Colin and Gord, and I also told the private investigator that they had. The investigator is Douglas Berantes, the man who sold Colin and Gordon a condominium within weeks of Jackie's disappearance. I tried to get Berantes to talk to me on this trip, but he developed some kind of heart condition and said he was unavailable. I'm unaware of anything he might have discovered in his investigation. Krista searches for and finds Michael in Coco at the very same bar he was supposedly with Jackie at, and he is questioned.

So did Michael say that he saw her? He said that he had seen her running on the beach.

No, he said he was not sitting with her that day, but he knew who she was because he had previously seen her running on the beach.

“To get a definitive answer, I tried to call Michael.”

No answer. Then go through his friends and former employer, but he doesn't want to talk. The former employer named Jannie does, though. Jannie recalls hearing that Michael said the woman was smoking. Something Jackie did not do.

And he said that the woman wasn't Jackie. Michael also said he knew what Jackie looked like because he had seen her running on the beach sometimes in the mornings. Colleen and Gordon too spoke to Michael, and he told them that the woman wasn't Jackie. And the woman sounds to me to be the same woman people were mistaken for Jackie at the time. Another case of mistaken identity.

He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night the Marine died.

And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected, and utterly bizarre turn.

I'm Josh Maykowitz, and this is trace of suspicion, an only podcast from daylight. Search trace of suspicion to start listening now. [BLANK_AUDIO]

“It's going to see a guy named Frank Evans here in Playa, Coco.”

It turns out he lives just out in the street from where I'm staying. Frank's somebody who knew Jackie and Sebastian, he's been quite well. I got some of the Sebastian Gave, and yeah, Frank's name is this kind of character reference. And so I'm going to walk up on him here. What did he do?

Yeah, hey. Anywhere you like, man, it's good. How are you doing? Thanks Frank for meeting me. I'm well, thank you.

Okay. I'm going to have a drink. You want something? No, I'm fine. Just go ahead, Frank.

Frank is relaxed and tropically clothed, balding with a big smile and bushy eyebrows. There's a Guinness Book size collection of booze lined up behind him on a shelf. I guess I wanted to talk to people that know Sebastian and can talk about him and their relationship, and what was going on with them. And there's a lot of opinions, you know.

Everybody, you know, like I know there was a lot of condemnation at the outset. And there was a lot of suspicion, but he was involved. But I've known him literally when he first arrived in Costa Rica. You know, the guy's got a herd of gold. I mean, no question.

Jackie, when I met her, everything seemed pretty normal. Like we would share meals here. And often I would be invited to go to wherever they were looking. And we have a meal together. And then it's just getting further and further and further apart.

And it was less socialization. And she came with Sebastian. I mean, I saw her at the pool over at my condominium. Wow, and this girl's got a great figure. And you know, the very, both of them were athletic. And you know, out doing paddle boarding and surfing and whatever they could do.

So you never saw them apart, right?

They were always, like, attached at the hip. I saw it always as a very positive, you know, nice relationship. And I got along with him very well. And I got along with her very well. And I was just like frigging blown away when Sebastian calls me. And she's like, "Jack, he's missing."

I was like, "What?" I haven't seen her for whatever it was. Two days, whatever he told me at that time. And I think what he meant missing. You know, like he just don't grasp that.

And do you remember the date I had to call him?

“I don't know. How many days afterwards have I met of them?”

No. Okay. No. I mean, it was several days after. But I saw him probably we can have two weeks after. And he came here.

And I mean, the guy is skinny anyway. And he was like, "Wow." Really? So I made him sit down and eat. Oh.

And I forced him to have food because he hadn't been eating. He hadn't been sleeping. And he's very particular about what he eats anyway. But he was totally devastated. I mean, you could see in his face.

You could see it in his physical being. He wanted to resolve whatever the hell it was.

and considers him a friend.

“His perspective on Sebastian aligns closely with Sebastian's girlfriend,”

Lorraine's point of view, a man of concern and care. We would go on search trips. And we would drive around the neighborhood. We'd drive into all the little burials. And you know, you've seen this person.

We had a picture of Jackie. And bars. Everything. We went everywhere. And all of them down the beach.

We talked to all the homeless people. We're thinking, you know, somewhere this kind of piece of clothing. There's got to be something. Some trace, you know. The fact that she left her belongings behind.

Very odd. And her phone and her ring. Yeah. Like, you know, that to me struck me as I don't want to be found. So there's no phone to trace me by.

There's no other way of, you know, tracking me down. And there was so much speculation that many of the people suspected that Sebastian was involved in some, you know, bad dealings with her.

But never saw them fight.

“Did he ever mention anything about pushing or like an argument escalating?”

I had never heard that that happened. I can't imagine that Sebastian would do that. I think he may restrain. So if he's being hit, he's going to grab her hand and, you know, stop her from hitting him. But I understood that she was aggressive.

But again, it's what Sebastian told me. Yes. I never saw it. Yeah, of course. Did he ever tell you or did you ever know Jackie to have left at other times?

No. No. It's torn off her. No. No.

That's the only time that I had heard that she had just gone poof. Yeah. Here in Nitharagua, nobody knows who the heck you are or you're in Panama. Nobody knows who the heck you are.

“And you can disappear pretty easily, I guess, if you want to.”

The OIG file says that the general director of immigration reviewed Jackie's migration movements and it was determined that she did not leave the country. And the Canadian embassy confirmed that Jackie did not enter Canada.

I never had an inkling that there was any hostility from Sebastian's side to Jackie.

I never saw anything on Jackie's side towards him. The same doll was to be a happy cop. Jackie herself was pretty strong, would you say? I would say she was very athletic, very attractive girl. I just feel quite honestly that there's no way that he could have done something malicious

towards Jackie. I mean, if he wanted to just walk, you know, he's got a lot of resources. He's a smart guy. One credible thing is accident or something. Some accident happens.

And somebody's hiding it. You know, it's possible. And we don't really know what we don't know. And speculating about it is stupid because it doesn't get you anywhere. So facts are important.

My experience in my just in my gut feeling was, you know, seeing him afterwards and the reaction and then the physical change, you know, that would not be the norm if you were involved in something wrong. Right? He was trying everything from my point of view to try and find her.

Hello, good morning. Hey, Pete. It's David. I reached Pete on the phone only after I leave Costa Rica. Pete's an American who owns and runs several businesses in the play of Cocoa area,

including the coconuts bar. He knew Sebastian and Jackie, and he says they would come into his bar regularly. And to talk to them as sort of friends or just customers. I'm friendly acquaintances. Yeah, I definitely knew them and talked to them.

We weren't close. I didn't have them over at the house for dinner. It's like that friendly customers.

He was always pretty mild, you know, very calm.

And she was very bright and bubbly and she liked to talk with kind of whoever one of the talk with her is how it felt like she was very open.

And he was kind of the opposite.

He was friendly, but not nearly as he was always black.

I don't know how you put it. Just one one mode, you know, monotone, very mild. This happened again at Coconut to my restaurant. Also in the mainstream in front of a lot of people. At least two times that they had gotten in very.

Very heated arguments. And I would say she was the one who was physically upset and was leaving. She seemed to be the one who was. More angry. He was always very calm.

Didn't really have much of a reaction. I could tell he was. It's saying something. Whatever was to piss her off.

We never got involved, but it was.

“To the point where I think I actually asked them not to come back.”

Coconut said one point because it was so ugly. So I think it was really three times that I saw them get into serious arguments. And it was that third time at Coconut's where they were really screaming at each other. Remember she was outside the bar yelling at him inside. Okay.

And did he ever come and talk to you about anything. In particular? Did he ever come? Oh, okay. So tell me about that.

So after she went missing, this was where it got. Strange for me. If my wife went missing, I would be devastated. I'd be doing everything I could to find her and the behavior that I got from him was. Not that.

It was very much like I don't want all this attention on me. I don't want this to, you know, it's almost like I just wanted to be over with. It certainly didn't seem that he had the demeanor of someone who just lost the love of their life. Yes, how I felt. And then it was maybe four months after she went missing that he got in touch with me.

And he wouldn't text it. So I need that a phone call with you. And I have a few missed phone calls from him in my context. So I look back to see if there is any written message about this.

“But then I, I remember my wife reminded me he wanted to meet with me in person.”

So I was at Coconut's one day. And the meeting was very nonchalant. It wasn't something we had planned. And we just happened to see each other. And he was just there for beers.

And he said, hey, can I talk to you? And he said, hey, I'm looking for a job for my girl. And I kind of caught me off. All right. This request from Sebastian would have been about four months after Jackie disappeared.

And this girlfriend is not Lorraine. Maybe it just means a friend of his that, you know, no, he meant a romantic girlfriend. That was living in Tamarindo, I guess. She would, she wanted a job at my restaurant. But she wasn't legal.

I don't know. Remember being really, it's just uncomfortable. And he had been drinking this girl. He described was, you know, if he said she's been a swam in a Nicaraguan. But he was like proud.

It was like, I'm sleeping with this new girl down in Tamarindo. And she wants to come move in with me. And I need to find her job up here. And I keep taking my moped back and forth the Tamarindo. And it was like a joke.

I don't want to keep driving my moped back and forth. I don't want her to come up here and work somewhere near by. This girl is not the one who he's living with now, by the way. It was a different girlfriend. I never met her.

I was kind of, I never got back to him, of course.

It was just so shocking that he would even ask that. Sebastian tells me that this conversation with Pete did happen. And I hope to get into more detail from him on this if I can. Um, and at that point, you know, I guess I, you know, I'm not. My gut told me like that it's obvious that he had something to do with it.

He was just very, you know, this is the mean of it. It was like he was happy.

“I think he snapped and it was probably something in the spur of the moment.”

They were fighting physically and whether it's an accident. It just went overboard. It's kind of how I feel. I don't think it was premeditated. It sounds like they got into a physical fight and, you know, whatever.

There's a thousand places that he could have been within two hours and back. It wouldn't be terribly difficult to hide somebody like that here. And have them not be found. Pete's theories aside, he doesn't know what happened to Jackie. And he doesn't know the person in Tamarindo.

He says Sebastian asked the favor for or how long Sebastian might have been seeing her.

I ask Pete for his thoughts on Jackie's disappearance.

“It's incredibly difficult to just do that too, right?”

I mean, it's suicide. I don't think many people really, they're probably trying to get found, right? I mean, you're not, nobody's that good at not getting found, especially for suicide. That's crazy. The investigation wasn't throw at all from what I understand. But, you know, whatever, who knows?

Indeed, who knows?

A small expat community far from home can be a beacon of support,

but also a concentrated and divisive rumor mill. Jackie's case is no exception, and after all of the theories, assertions and stories, there are still questions and inconsistencies. So here's what we know. Jackie furlens Smith disappeared some time after leaving her appointment with her physiotherapist Tatiana

in Tamarindo, Costa Rica on August 17, 2021. Jackie left upset and messages I've been shown by Sebastian from across that afternoon show this. Jackie was diagnosed with schizophrenia effective disorder and reportedly was not taking any medication at this time. She suffered from serious symptoms exacerbated by stress or in social situations that included paranoia, delusions and depression.

“I think Jackie was likely the one who used her credit card between 6 and 7 p.m. at the surf shop,”

but I can't be 100% on it. After that, the information gets even hazyer. Jackie might have been seen arriving at the Casica development by Michael the gate guard between 630 and 730 p.m. waving "Hello" but we cannot confirm that date. Sebastian says he looks for Jackie in Tamarindo but he didn't go to the clinic she was at.

Sebastian has multiple stories about what he did when he arrived back in Playa Coco area that evening. He ate supper at home or ate out.

He saw Jackie first then left and returned or he only saw her when he returned from supper at the poms restaurant.

Then there was an argument, a fight back at the house. The order of events there is also unclear to me.

“After, Sebastian says Jackie walked out leaving her phone and ring behind.”

A neighbor says she saw Jackie in a taxi that night around 8 p.m. is positive she did now despite being initially unsure in the months immediately afterward. But no taxi driver or dispatcher remembers picking Jackie up or hearing of her being in a red cab that night. And I couldn't reproduce seeing anyone in a car under similar conditions. Then there's the fight that night, the punch in the face Sebastian says he got from Jackie. People noticed scratches and a scar on him in the following days and the stories about that seem variable.

How did he get them? Jackie's parents say Sebastian pushed Jackie. He says it didn't happen that way, though Jackie's texts suggest that he could be unpredictable. Others who know Sebastian well say he has a heart of gold. Sebastian says there is a video of Jackie leaving that night. There isn't. He says that there are people who saw Jackie.

Keith didn't see her, Carol might have but the date is unclear and many saw a different person that was not Jackie. In fact, there are no confirmed sightings of Jackie anywhere after August 17, 2021, according to police documents. All of it adds up to questions that I need to take back to Sebastian. I need to talk to him. Again. [Music]

Someone knows something is hosted written and produced by me, David Rigen. The series is also produced by Maria Jose Burgos, sound designed by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Canal is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez.

Tonya Springer is the senior manager and RF Nurani is the director of CBC Podcasts. You can binge all episodes of someone knows something early on the CBC True Crime YouTube channel, or for early and add free listening, subscribe to the CBC True Crime Premium channel on Apple Podcasts.

If you're looking for more investigations, check out the con.

“Each season focuses on stories about scammers and con artists.”

A podcast exposing the art of deception.

Find the con wherever you get your podcasts. [Music]

For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca/podcasts.