S9 E4: ‘Til The Day I Die

into Richmond, Saskatchewan, with a fleet of RVs and set up her kingdom in an abandoned school.

“So the town banded together to get the cult out by any means necessary.”

My name is Rachel Brown, and in this season of uncover, I explore what happens when a conspiracy theory lands in your backyard. The cult queen of Canada, available now on CBC Listen, and everywhere you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to sexual assault.

Please take care. Okay, so Marianne, tell me everything. Last night, we had an officer appear at our door at 1130 at night and asked us to get in touch with

“the detective. Go open, then call her and she let me know that Anthony Ringo had been arrested”

and charged with murder of my daughter.

Marianne says police haven't told her much more about this the second time Ringo's been arrested

for Christy's murder. The first time was almost 10 years earlier, and the charges were stayed and the case went nowhere. It's been nine months since my CBC doc aired, Ringo is now 44 years old. The OPP press conference at the Washington Police Station filled with media, family, and people from the area. There is no happy ending to this investigation from Marianne, Christine's mom. I know that this has been a roller coaster of emotional highs and lows for the family.

Since it began over 19 years ago, it is my home. Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin. Gilpin had given me very little information during my own investigation, and she's certainly not

“revealing a lot now, either. So what's changed that's allowed police to re-arrest Ringo?”

I was going to ask him, and this is not a suspect to the family, but I have to ask him, you found Christine. I can't discuss the evidence that we have discovered, and I don't want to cause any problems with the core process. So I'm unable to provide you with information at this time.

Police never found Christine on any of their searches after Ringo's confession,

and several mistakes that the court determined were made by OPP investigator Mark Wright caused the crown to stay the charges against Ringo. Detective Inspector Gilpin messaged me after my CBC documentary aired saying, "So you know, I, we had nothing to do with what Mark Wright did. That was just him." "There has been a certain level of frustration with the length of this, and some directed at the OPP, and police that have ended before this."

With no real answers, forthcoming from police, the reporters pressing on Marianne, who is seated off to the side at the back of the room. "And we'll take questions, answers." One of the masks Marianne, how she feels after hearing the OPP announcement.

"I'm just glad that it's finally gotten to this point where they've been able to

arrest him again for her murder. We're very thankful for that, and hopefully, you know, just as we'll be had." "The word closure comes out quite a bit. I mean, there is no such thing as closure. No." The word closure is one that most of the victims' families I've worked with despise, and here reporters are forcing the question before of Marianne knows anything. "What happened with Ringo? And will any of it lead to us actually knowing what happened to Chrissy

on May 18, 1993?" "I'm David Rigen, and this is someone who knows something, season 9, the Christine Herron case, episode 4, till the day I die." "I was down alone for a victory month. Oh, oh." "What was there, Mom?" "I thought I had a one." "Oh, they tried to charge me on temperature murder." "Yeah." "What?" "Attemptive murder." "Yeah." "It's like a bird is on fire." "Well,

"Seventy-five days after my CPC documentary went to air in May 2012, police

“began field operations involving Ringo in the same trailer park where I had confronted him."”

"It was like fucking me." "They come in and I haven't even talked to a lawyer yet." "This is one of the reason why I got thrown on a court." "Yeah." "Because they did not give me my right right." "This police operation proceeded over several months, guided by detective inspector Gilpin, and involved a handful of core officers under cover men and women who might show refer to as UC's." "Hey, I pulled up lawyer of three times and I lost him at phone a lawyer."

"I said to the lawyer, they want me to do something that I don't want to do." "And after that, they fucking took me somewhere." "They're not here." "Yeah." "So they didn't find you, right?" "Yeah, they didn't find you." "So there's no body." "Yeah, they fucking wasted the brain." "How did they share your mother that there's no problem murder?" "I was a murder, there's no proof of murder."

The UC's performance stage scenarios intended to gain Ringo's trust and get him to talk, posing as down on their luck new arrivals to town. We've excluded the UC's identities and altered

their voices under court order. This is the first time that these undercover recordings have ever been

made public. It gives us an inside look into the police investigation of Ringo, and what led to is a rest for a second time. Ringo and two UC's are sitting on beige couches arranged in an

“L-shaped in a starkly furnished apartment in Chesley, Ontario, trying to get a video game to work. "I mean, you got to shit off, it's just a new reboot. I'm just gonna put it back in." "What did it?" "I think it's fine."”

The operation moved to this apartment near the end of October 2012, because the trailer park shut down for winter. They are all facing a television across the room that the game displays on, but this TV area also hosts a hidden camera

that records everything that goes on in front of it. "I can go over there, man, get to day off. You want a Walmart first thing to work?"

Walmart opened out. The room, and it seems the UC's themselves are rigged with hidden microphones that also record. They call Ringo "dozer" because of the way he likes to drive into or over other cars in the game. This rather empty-looking setting would serve as a launch pad for trying to extract a confession from Ringo. "When this all came to the surface like that, oh, I did tell him. But that's the thing. He just fucking judged me. He knows. And they told him." One of the main stories UC's tried to drive home to Ringo about themselves involves a landscaper who is enduring a tough divorce and losing everything.

The other UC is a friend of the landscaper and presents himself as having been caught in a relationship with an underage girl. A 14-year-old that seems to fit Christine's age. The UC involved in the underage relationship gets away with it the story goes, because the landscape her stands up for him and can be trusted.

"He has got a heart of gold, it's not your trust, it's not your bad always,

“and you know what, anytime you ever don't die, just remember that fucking story I used to want to play."”

It's all meant to position and present a predicament of shared experience that they hope might stimulate Ringo to open up and confide in them. "I didn't bring this on me, she's the one that came on me, like since she was like how old we're in her fancy stuff." "Like, even if you've got a lawyer, here's a lawyer who's going to question her, right? And she says the wrong fucking thing."

"But while the story of the UC's affair with a teenage girl gets Ringo somewhat engaged, he says nothing specific to Christine." The UC's constantly shift the reproach trying to build rapport.

pizzas, restaurants, pool halls, ice fishing, a strip club, and even exchanging pornography DVDs.

“"Like, up here, it was like nothing on her arm, and you can see the ball of straw at the back,”

because it went like this and you'd down." During the operation, Ringo would talk about young women as being objects. Objects of his desire. "But then you gotta make it look like you're not following them." Ringo would tell the UC's that he knew where many young women lived in the

chestly and hand over area that he had followed them and techniques he uses such as circling back or doing parallels to make sure you don't get caught. "A trip to a London Ontario mall, Ringo spies young women."

He describes to the UC's as being under 16 years old.

One of them in particular Ringo says is about 13, wearing a pink sweater and leotard. Ringo wants to show her to the UC's, but he can't find her again and it frustrates him. "You shouldn't be walking around like that, teasing somebody's cock." "You know what? They're aren't fluttering." "Yeah."

"What were you guys thinking?" "Right?" But these Simpatico trust-building scenes still do not bring Ringo any closer to talking specifically about past connection to Christine Herron.

In late November, a more direct method is used.

"It's what it is." Missing posters showing a photo of Christy and the basics of her disappearance are put up by police operatives around town. One right on the UC's car windshield. Ringo picks it up, but initially turns it so that the UC can't see it. Ringo shows the poster to the UC.

"Somebody just go on this one?" "I don't know. She's been gone." "1993." Ringo throws the poster on the floor of the vehicle. "Maybe we could ran away and doesn't want to be found."

Two weeks later, the Missing Christy poster comes up again.

“"Here's the thing, okay. I've seen her picture one day and I actually”

definitely said something to a cop above the picture. Did I see that and they took it the wrong way?" "Right." "And they ended up charging well." "What's in with that guy?"

"You get it though?" "The one that's gone in God for 15 years." "That's the one you would do." "This one?" "Yeah."

But while the poster gets wringle talking about generalities, he doesn't make any statements germane to the case. The holidays arrive and the UC's depart. "Awesome." The UC's return after the break, soon after Ringo brings over some poor DVDs

he proposes that they watch. The UC's try again to encourage Ringo to talk and take him on an ice fishing trip at the end of January, but it comes up empty too. Document show that Ringo's comments about a young teen girl he sees out on the ice make the UC's uncomfortable.

At this point UC's have spent about five months trying to get Ringo to admit to any involvement in Christy's disappearance with no luck. Nothing seems to be working. But then...

“Like, that's why I just hate the mind being that you don't affect Ringo.”

An idea is hatched by police that UC's should get onto the internet with Ringo.

To do this, police create a fake search engine so that the UC's stage name brings up nothing

“of interest, but when Ringo's name is entered, something specific pops up.”

Well, that's a fucking thing they did on a Christian journey. My CBC documentary. Floor crossers, separatist movements, Trump's terror threats, struggling to keep up, power and politics has you covered with our weekly rap. Every Saturday, we bring together our tuned in political

strategists. Get caught up on the week that was and what it means for what's next by following

power and politics wherever you get your podcasts.

“19 years ago today, Marianne Russbaum saw her daughter for the last half of her life.”

Anthony Ringo and the UC sit on the coaches in the fake chestley apartment watching my documentary. Ringo and a snowmobile jacket and baseball cap nervously sipping at a beer. But then the documentary abruptly ends. Along with the dummy search engine, police had edited their own much shorter version of my film and Ringo notices. Ringo who has seen the original doc wants to watch the 20-minute long version and urges

the UC to find it. So the UC searching the actual internet finds it linked to a CBC article I wrote about Chris's case. Ringo leans in and together he and the UC watch, stopping, starting and replaying for the next four hours. Ringo apparently thought I was a cop when I knocked on his trailer door. Did you have a chance to tell your mum before she died but he's what you say. Did I just want to kill Chris Dean? Yeah, we're telling her that.

“But you're on. No. So she died thinking that you might have murdered her?”

Are you talking about it? No, he didn't talk about it. No, he didn't talk about it. No, what do you mean? Her mother is wondering what happened? She doesn't know either. We're in my room. Ringo watching interacts with the documentary with my voice over, answering not my problem. And the conversation ends with more questions. See, he didn't mention it. As Ringo watches his commentary increases,

his statements become focused on Christine, the imagery I shot and the words I'm saying. He's opening up. The UC hits play again. The hand over park and soggy river appear on the screen. Reverse the farm handover's public park. One of Christine's favorite places. See, I'm morning to bed. What the hell is your favorite play? No. Everyone can have a favorite place, right? Yeah.

Ringo seems visibly struck by the thought that the little hand over park on the soggy river was one of Chrissy's favorite places. Then they watched the part of the documentary where I described from documents what Ringo said to police in 2004 about what he did to Christine. Apparently in or close to a marshy lagoon. Not only does the OPT bring Ringo to these locations. I don't understand why they couldn't find it. She wasn't really buried.

This is the first time since his 2004 confession that Ringo connects himself directly to Chrissy's

disappearance. The UC sees as only opportunity as he wonders in questions for Ringo,

Ringo thinks that the flooding at the banks of the soggy could be a reason for why Chrissy was

“not found. They couldn't find fucking shit. In the hidden video recordings,”

I can see the UC becoming noticeably excited about the documentaries effect on Ringo as they crouch over the laptop sitting on the coaches. Once the gate begins to open, Ringo pushes through it keeps going and keeps talking. That's in the park. It's a talking documentary on Ringo. Yeah, on her. They're not actually showing where we crossed or how can you follow the path.

Two minutes, you're right there. They can't find the location.

Yeah, it goes around the bin. I've never been there, so I don't get, I don't know where it goes around

the bin and then it moves that way. At the end of that tip, that's probably a cross. Ringo, who says he took police to the right spot back in 2004, seems upset here because I didn't film the exact spot he says he crossed the soggy river with Chrissy. It keeps him talking. The UC asks how Ringo came to meet Christine and uses Ringo's word "turing" or looking

for young girls around town.

I just went for a walk and then all of a sudden I bumped into this chick. Ringo says he said what's down there to Chrissy. Ringo says Chrissy didn't really say anything. As a 15-year-old girl alone being

“accosted by a 24-year-old man, I think Chrissy would have been afraid to do anything that might”

provoke a negative reaction. The UC asks Ringo what made him do it that day. What did he talk to Ringo where he was saying? What did he say? It was like a 14-year-old girl. She should know better. It was not all your fault, right?

Ringo, she didn't seem too happy that she was coming back out. I think it was her time.

“Opportunity knocked. I think it was her time.”

Hearing Ringo tried to justify the brutal events he's describing is difficult to listen to. But the UC presses forward. To the shoulder reaper earlier, it shows how the shoulders of the current rip going out. Oh yeah, it's fast. So how did you answer that across him?

Hey, push him. Jump in the afternoons. Ringo says he pushed Chrissy into the river and then followed her across. She went down to the lower lock when I went across and hit the bend, but let go of him.

This one was called her.

“Ringo says he has to swim after Chrissy to keep her from floating down river and he pulls her to the opposite bank.”

The glasses went to her side.

That's one very dirty. Can't really think about the water. I can't believe he didn't find that. The glasses. Ringo says Chrissy's glasses came off in the water and wonders why they weren't found. From here, more specific details begin to come out.

What Ringo thinks about what Ringo says he did. And I've omitted some of the most difficult to hear, but I still urge caution for listeners. Was it before crossing the river or after? And Ringo says after. How do you do it then?

It was a waste.

I can't remember if it was face down or I flipped her over.

Is it swampy when you're here? You're all kind of wet when you're laying in the water. Your sulfur did you not own a dry area?

“I think I'm going to remember doing whatever.”

I remember doing whatever and then going. I don't want to try anything. But when this computer is saying one thing, this is the best position that's asking you. So when it says that you know, it does just say she couldn't open the way I did. Let's just say she couldn't fucking move the way I did it.

Can you describe it like this? Like what's it?

Like so, how do you tell a person out without a little bit?

I don't know. I don't know. How do you do it? Jack. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. So this is her cool? Yeah. Wrinkle physically shows that you see how he immobilized Chrissy using her coat so that it kept her arms from moving.

I can't fucking move now. Oh, shit. And she's on the ground. I can do anything like pull on the pain. Yeah.

Right. So what does she say to them? She said she would tell anybody but then play it on. She's going to say it and hurt and hurt. She's going to tell her.

And, well, where's the question about it? I'm not telling you. Well, you're going to say something. I let you go and you say something. And here, Wrinkle can be seen mouthing the words, "I'm fucked."

He was afraid Chrissy would tell people what had happened. Do you see exon this difficult conversation? Yeah, this is the entire right there, I want to do. She had let her go for her, okay? She's not coming back.

But they lied about drowning. 'Cause we're really drowning her.

“'Cause drowning, you have to have the water.”

Right. Where I was in more muddy here. Was it more drowning and more smothered here? It's hard. It's a bit quicker to take all time on cows, but how do you do it like?

Well, they see him dying once. But second job. Well, I didn't tell him a little bit longer from that. Wrinkle tells the you see how he smothered Chrissy in the mud.

She, that's what he said. I had to clean out the sweat. Get a burnt grape. So I was trying to do this spectacle. Playin' it, turn it, bury it in mud.

You're gonna own your fucking open. Wrinkle says he returned the next day.

“And covered Chrissy with sticks, logs, and branches.”

Stim, logs, and branches. You'll run that soon, though. There are bears in the woods, and they are human. As I watch the recordings, I'm struck a few times by an overwhelming urge to get away. Panic attack triggered by the unending horror and ease with which Wrinkle talks about hurting Chrissy,

and barbarically taking her life. Sitting with Wrinkle through all of this must be tough for the you see's. Fleeing my computer, my house, my city is easy, but it doesn't change anything. I still have to get to the end. But I'm happy Wrinkle is watching the dock and talking, and it's a sort of grounding.

The work is doing what it's supposed to do. Upon I return to the keyboard, I open up the transcript and video file to a spot where Wrinkle is eating popcorn out of a bowl. You know what I mean, it's a God that's going to probably punish me for whatever. You know what, though? I think God is going to forgive you.

We talked about this. Like you said, it's a perfect crime.

Now be it did basically the perfect crime.

And really, the real one is. Yeah, okay. So what am I doing now? I sort of mean. You ever think you'll be doing it again?

Yeah. I have. No.

“I think it's my conscience that's trying to stop you from being mad.”

Your option you can do that or follow my commitments. So if you do it once and you don't do it again, maybe I can trust you. Right. I still have them thoughts, yeah. Wrinkle still has the thoughts of doing something again.

And yet, he has also felt the urge to confess. I am an atheist, but believe in the edict that the truth will set you free. Will the truth set Wrinkle free and to do what? Is the question. So what do you think for the burden?

I think he's afraid. He's afraid he's going to say the wrong thing. You already said the wrong thing. What the hell?

“Towards the end of what are now the early morning hours of continuous documentary watching.”

A melancholy seems to descend on Wrinkle himself about what he has done. So now let's play until I happen to apologize.

Oh, yes, never get back to you.

Wrinkle's wistfulness turns to musings about an afterlife where he might get the chance he thinks to speak to Chrissy. I'm going to ask if the question was for any of the ones did you have the better life afterwards or before? I'm going to say sorry what I did.

No. Did you have the better life afterwards or before? To ask that question hypothetically of anyone let alone someone you have horribly murdered is to me, blood boiling. But it also clarifies Wrinkle's state of mind.

This is his version of guilt no matter how wrong-headed. His version of a mind trying to find a way out of what it knows was a terrible wrong. I never goes away. Today is the same as if most of that did for me. It's still there. Just deal with it again for a while.

It's still going away, patient. It's never later.

Just what happened? I believe that. Mary and Rasmur have said she continues to hold that hole. Oh, they cut it out.

Oh, you're not going to lower you?

Oh, I shouldn't. Oh, what's that in the past, man? Put it this way. This story here, you and me,

“to a day I died fucking doesn't need these legs.”

It's all in time and all right. Put it behind you. Oh, I knew it again. No, it's fucking dude. It's fucking you again.

Ringo says he'll never forget it,

and that it is too planted in his brain. The things we need to think of as long as it's taking us like a three hours of watching. Yeah.

“After about seven months of direct contact with Ringo”

and with their UC recorded confessions. Ontario provincial police re-arrest Ringo and charge him with first degree murder. The undercover operation is viewed as a huge success and Ringo is sent to provincial jail to await his trial.

But the outcome of that trial is far from certain.

In 2015, when Ringo's second pretrial begins,

the defense moves to throw out his confession again. This time, not because of police errors, but because of my documentary. Someone knows something is hosted written and produced by me, David Rigen. The series is also produced by Katie Swires.

Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Canal is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez.

Tonya Springer is the senior manager and RF Nurani is the director of CVC podcasts.

“If you want to help new listeners discover the show,”

please rate and review wherever you listen. Find us on Facebook by searching someone knows something or on Instagram at CVC podcasts. You can hear next week's episode now by searching for the CVC podcasts channel on YouTube.

If you're looking for more investigations, check out my other series, The Next Call. Conducted almost exclusively through a series of strategic phone calls, each call dictates how I will investigate cases and follow leads. There are three seasons available to binge listen to now. Find the next call wherever you get your podcasts.

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