S9 E5: A Bear In The Woods

It was allowed to spread, while governments dragged their feet and tech companies shrugged.

“"I'm staring at myself in this video that I know I haven't made."”

"This is what it looks like to feel violated." This season, on understood. If you follow the trail, who does it lead to? These images they would like hunting me, and the biggest platform was Mr. Deepfake's understood. Deepfake porn empire.

Available now on CBC Listen, or wherever you get your podcast. There she is, how are you? I was trying to think of the last time I saw you, would've been long time ago, long time ago. Yeah. I was the same here.

A little sort of one, not spares in the States, it's okay.

It's been over 15 years since I first began working on CBC's case, and I'm here to see

“Mary Ann now because there's still more to do.”

I don't know if I'm coming. Hi, kitty cat. Oh, there's crystal right there. The same Chrissy and Glass' photo in the same frame that I first saw her in at the hand over church so long ago.

I pick it up and it's heavy. Chrissy is staring back at me. A face I have come to know so well after all these years. Mary Ann looks older, maybe paler, more fragile. Sean Russworm, Mary Ann's former husband, is noticeably absent from the scene.

Mary Ann says that they ended their many years together in a strangement. Yeah, what's the kitty cat's name here? Char. He's a pain in the ass. Are you said to all of us, didn't you?

“They're in the bedroom, or they won't stop burden.”

Yeah. 13 and 12? Can I see the difference? The nature of the work that needs to be done changes as cases progress, even when justice comes. I know the date of the court the police took me aside and they told me how they got

on them like undercover and that he did killer and you know, he raped her and pushed her head down into a puddle or something they said about they wouldn't give me any answers to a new my questions they said that's all we can tell you. After his re-arrest following the undercover operation, Anthony Ringo is jailed to await proceedings.

When court begins in November of 2014, Mary Ann says she is told by police not to attend in case she has to testify. I know all the different emotions you go through and you know how you got to handle it and everybody kept telling me why are you crying? I said that's not going to get nothing done.

I said you got to be strong to try and get somewhere. I said crimes when you're in your bedroom at night. At pre-trial the defense and prosecution make their arguments before a judge for whatever that should be included at trial. Ringo's lawyer Stephen Gell mounts his most strident argument on what he says is a tanting

of Ringo's newest confession by my CBC film.

Basically because some of Ringo's admissions to killing Christine were deemed inadmissible

in Ringo's 2006 pre-trial, any of those excluded admissions Ringo saw in the film tainted his new confession to the UCs. But the prosecution successfully argues against that. Judge CJ Conlon agrees stating, "I conclude that the February 2013 admissions were not obtained in a manner that infringed or denied Mr. Ringo's charter rights and the defense tanting

application is therefore dismissed." In his ruling Conlon writes, "There is no question that the CBC film was deliberately used by the police as a play, a lure to produce a confession to murder, and it worked." The confessions based on Ringo's viewing of my doc are allowed into evidence and Ringo's trial is set for June 2016.

Marianna tensed but the details of what happened are obscured in a sea of legalese and

When in court he wouldn't look at me, even the judge was waiting for a response from him. He wouldn't. When I read my impact statement, he would not look, and I begged him in court to tell me where he put her, and he wouldn't even say a word.

Ringo pleads guilty to second degree murder, avoiding a full trial, and is sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 12 years.

“So where does this all leave, Marianne, and where can she go from here?”

I have it moved on. I've went down a few times and just put flowers in the river, and we made her a really nice cross, and we put it back in the site. They say I have post-traumatic stress disorder from it, but there's nothing they can do to help me, so I'm stuck, where's my answers?

I'm David Ridgen, and this is someone who knows something, season nine, the Christine Herron case episode five, a bear in the woods. Marianne Russwarm, it took more than two decades, but there is now someone in jail for your daughter Christine's murder, how much has that changed things for you? It's changed a little bit because there's a little bit of justice there.

Marianne, speaking in the weeks after Ringo's conviction, with CBC radio host, Anna Maria Charmante.

Yeah, this is never going to go away.

For me, it's a daily challenge, just trying to live my life, and ever since you went missing, I don't celebrate holidays or anything, because it doesn't feel right without her there. Like with my case, I don't have a body, so that is very difficult. I can't bury her, give her a proper burial.

She was just like she was thrown away and garbage, but you don't keep trying and trying to get your answers, however you can. Don't always rely on the police, you've got to do it yourself, you've got to push them every day. I don't like the way the police handled the case at all.

They made so many errors, and it was David Regen, that brought all the errors to light for me. He started showing me paperwork with all the mistakes that they had made, and I was very angry.

“I believe that this case has come out for a guilty plea because of David Regen, and what”

he's done. The late musician Daniel Johnson once sang some lyrics that I've found instructive. Do yourself a favor, become your own savior. We don't need an outside force to make the change that is needed, and Marianne exemplifies

this by never giving up on justice for Christy, and being the reason any documentary could

be made in the first place. Did you ever get the chance to talk to Anthony Ringo person to person like face to face? No, because every time I went to try and find him somewhere he'd see me and he'd run. It should have been the other way around. It should have been me hiding from him, but no, it was the other way around.

I still want to hear what he has to say and what happened, because I've read a long impact statement, and it didn't seem to make a difference to him. Police tell you specifics of how they got him to say anything, or they tell you any other detail about they wouldn't.

“So just in terms of going forward, if I go and try to find how to get in touch with Ringo,”

I find out where he is, do I include you on the letter and say, "We want to talk to you," or do I say, "I want to," and then you just come. Oh, I'll go with you. Yeah. Yeah, I want to be there.

You should be there with me. Yeah, I definitely want to be there. I want to hear what he has to say, but it's his version.

He's still never really know.

I'm strong now. I'm strong. I'm strong. I'm strong. Yeah.

Yeah. I've had to be all these years. What's find out how to work that then? [music playing] Carsals are as candid as possible.

Hi there. I'm trying to determine. It can be difficult to find where someone is incarcerated in Canada. Oh, give you access to information general inquiries.

One, eight, four, four, one, cheat.

“Thank you for calling Correctional Service Canada, access to information and privacy”

division. Hi there. I'm trying to confirm if someone is in federal custody here in Ontario or elsewhere in Canada. Anthony Edward Ringle, R-I-N. But no callbacks from Correctional Canada.

So I craft a letter with Mary Ann. Without knowing exactly where Ringle is in custody, I send several of them to some of the likely prisons where he might be. Yeah, that's a little bit noisy back here, but it's okay. So I can put a computer right here.

I brought some clips from the undercover operation to show you. We wait for several months. Ringle doesn't respond to the letters, so I reconvene with Mary Ann. Have you seen any of this before? No, I wasn't allowed to.

I've set up the computer with the UC videos on it on a little plastic table in a secluded area, outside of Mary Ann's apartment. It's a place that feels safe for her to watch.

My belief, shared by Mary Ann, is that by confronting this footage for the first time,

she can help herself to dispel some of her lingering demons. Court room justice is one thing being a survivor is another. So some of it's pretty difficult listening, and in fact I haven't in the podcast, I haven't put a lot of that in, but I would think it's important that you have the option of learning what he said.

Yes. And I know, Mary Ann, that you say you're strong, and I know everybody thinks they're strong, but you can't kind of unhear this stuff, and you'll see him saying it, too. But with that in mind, I can show you, and we can, are you okay? We'll keep going.

Are you okay? We'll keep going.

“But only if you want to look at it, because you had said that you want to know the truth.”

I want to know, and Anthony has not responded yet to anything I've sent to him. So in terms of us going to talk to him, not sure when that might happen. Can you see that? Yes.

I play the first clip of undercover police video that shows the general setup of the apartment

the UC and wringle, watching my documentary around the laptop computer. I want Mary Ann to see how wringle starts reacting to the documentary as he watches. Let's go play this here. Thank you, buddy. Watch me, because it tells everything like, "Oh, thanks for coming out."

I've got more anger towards the OPP at the town cops when I get wrinkled. Well, why did you come up with it? I don't fucking know. It's a little shit. Do you want the OPP or how our police departments have agreed to speak of the record about

this case? Right.

“So that's kind of introduction to what the scene is like, so you see Anthony starting”

to talk about the case here. Anything strike you? Did you imagine it being like this or... I didn't think he'd be that casual about it. Apparently, in work couples to immerse you legally, wringle reportedly raged Christine and

ground her. He allegedly returns to the area a following day to bury her face down and naked in a makeshift grave. I don't know, I just see OPP, bring wringle to this location and we can find it. I don't know what it's like, but I've got to shut it.

Did you catch what he said? Yeah. This is the transcript. Anthony, I don't understand why they couldn't find it. You see, um, Anthony, she wasn't really buried.

And that's the beginning.

So that's the beginning of his confession, basically, and it goes on and on and on and on

for hours. Good morning. Yeah. Hannover's public park. One of Christine's favorite places.

Oh, see. That's the morning of you. That was your favorite place. And so on, I play Clip after Clip for Mary Ann, with wringle becoming increasingly open of what he did that day.

Mary Ann watches all of it intently, showing little emotion. I do not play the most graphic clips. I will leave her to watch those on her own, whenever she might be ready. It makes me angry to see him act that way on camera, you know, be so call us about it that he does seem to care what he did.

hate all these years that's hard to, so until I got a life back here, it was all hatred

and that was eaten me out. See, I have to let some of it go.

“Maybe it's the only way he can cope with what he's done.”

I don't know, but it's not right. It's hard to deal with that, like, to see her walk away from the house and the last time to see her, that's, that's hard. I had that guilt every day. We had a big argument, and I made her go to school.

If I hadn't made her, it might not have happened. She might have been safe. Guilt is etched like acid across the minds of all the victims families I've worked with. Probably anyone who has experienced a sudden loss has become lost themselves in this terrain, but in cases like this of people who go missing or who are murdered, it is almost

always of a specific acuteness.

If only they could have done something, said something, thought something different, it wouldn't have happened. Their loved one would still be here. The moments before saying goodbye, that final argument, or fleeting last glimpse wouldn't be on endless replay, and the remaining existence wouldn't be spent in some kind of penitence,

pushing people and their own lives away. This kind of guilt has stayed with Marianne all these years, playing out day and night. I have nightmares every single night, all night long, about trying to reach her and can get to her, to help her, and that's going to be the rest of my life.

So, I've seen psychiatrists, I've talked to counselors, and that will never go away.

It's the guilt, and I feel that every day. So it's a struggle every day to get through it. I don't think wringo will talk to Marianne. There's been no response to our missives, and as lawyer has not responded either. Marianne, after seeing some of the UC tapes, seems less interested in engaging with him,

but still I know would jump at any chance if it came up. Our thoughts turn to another matter, constantly undermined. It wasn't dug up back there.

“So the police said it was dug up, but you went back there, where we went?”

No, nothing's been dug up, and that's back in on the other side of the park side of the river there. All marsh, and there's no way they dug it up. Have OPP or police ever communicated with you about finding remains or anything like that? No, nothing.

They said there was also helicopters with heat-seeking thermal images, and they didn't find up, and so. Has there ever been cadaver dogs run through there? They said there was. I don't know.

Yeah, it makes me wonder about cadaver dogs, and that area there might be still some remnant that might be detected by a dog, that's something to consider as well. The current owner of the property on the west side of the soggy river where Ringo says he took Chrissy says police have not been back there for at least eight years. If that is true, then nobody has really been actively looking for Chrissy.

So that's what we intend to do.

“You know that feeling when you reach the end of a really good true crime series?”

You want to know more, more about the people involved, where the case is now, and what it's like behind the scenes. I get that. I'm Kathleen Goldhardt and on my podcast Crime Story, I speak with the leading storytellers of True Crime to dig deeper into the cases we all just can't stop thinking about.

Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts. Just heading down this trail, at the river side, at the east side of the soggy river out of Handover Park. It's a kingfishers in the trees, it looks like indigible buntings out there.

rocket flowers start to close in. Great day to look for a body.

“It's a few weeks later and I'm waiting through underbrush in Handover Ontario.”

Every step I take is shadowed by what happened here in the spring of 1993. Wringle met Chrissy on this path. He says he took her into the increasingly tangled woods ahead, then crossed the river. I want to see exactly where, because Mary Ann will soon be arriving at the park that's disappearing behind me.

And before she gets here I want to make sure of where we'll be going.

While she has been to the park and partway along this path, she says she's never been

all the way down it. And later, she'll help search the area west of the soggy river for the first time for Chrissy. As you keep going here, the trail starts to divide and you can hear the town off to the left and to the right on the west side is the property that we're going to be searching today that we've been granted access to.

“The river bends off to the west and creates an insla, a large bend in the river that Wringle”

refers to and his conversations with police and undercover officers. He says they go right to the tip of the bend. It's very much an unused part of the trail here.

I have to crouch down in order to get through a lot of ferns and raspberry brambles.

The logs across the trail here, they would have had to pick their way along here. If you go too fast, you can trip. It's early June and the trail and entire area around me is lush and overgrown. When Wringle and Chrissy traveled the same path in May 1993, it would have been somewhat easier going.

It's coming out to the tip here so as you look across, you can start to see a muddy bank on the other side. The soggy river can flood and spring to varying degrees and across the water I can see some sign of that. There are fewer trees, more grasses and mud, but the banks are high here and it doesn't

seem like the flood margin goes that deep. It's only about 30 feet before you'd hit a line of mature trees that would have trouble growing in a flooded area. It renews my hope that we might find some remainder of Chrissy. I come up to the tip and stop dead.

Yeah, I think that's it.

“I think that's the spot where they crossed.”

It's got to be both trails converge here. I think to continue this way, you would start to go back down the other side of the peninsula, right here, down here, down this hill and there's the water. This is the place. This is the place where Ringo pushed Chrissy in.

Ringo told undercover officers that he pushed Chrissy into the water and then went to the other western side of the river. To get there, I've brought a couple of blow up boats. Oh, it's nine bar, huh? I didn't notice it.

It's all nine bar here, yeah, common nine bar. My son Owen is here to help paddle them and some gear down to the tip of the peninsula where I just walked. This will be a temporary base camp of sorts.

Owen's also brought a powerful magnet with him tied to a rope.

We think it's worth trying dragging it along the bottom of the river nearby. Chrissy, according to Ringo, lost her glasses on the way across and also perhaps a bracelet. There's a needle in a haystack of needles' chants will find anything, but we try. We're looking in the river, we're looking at the sides of the river. We're looking at this current and trying to figure out where the current might have taken

objects, this is happening in 1993 and we're in 2024 now and Chrissy will have been out here for that long, 31 years, I think. That means that her remains could have been spread by water, by flood, by deterioration, by other animals, spreading them further up away from the floodplain possibly, so that the margin of search is actually much broader and wider than where she initially was placed

Alright, so let's actually lift this boat down.

Yep. This will be the boat that Owen has lived these cases alongside me for years, at the muddy banks of the Mississippi River for the Deanmore case, up in Thompson with Trevor Brown, searching Holmes Lake for the remains of Adrian Macnauton, and for Donnie Isit on Dr. Noble's farm, and now here today as we search for Chrissy.

Okay, this is one boat. We head down the river, ferns and flowers, bugs and birds, there is no shortage. Chrissy's favorite place is bursting with life.

“Why is it that all these places are so fucking beautiful?”

So we're just heading around the bend here, we've got Owen paddling in the front, we're

towing another canoe. Yeah, so you see this opening and then down there by that branch down there, that's where I think he started the cross with Chrissy. So this search area is really all around us, I think we should just go along the shoreline. Ringel says he push Chrissy into the water and she drifted down stream a bit, he says

he then jumped in after her and brought her to the western shore, somewhere a short distance down river on the other side. So let's just see where the current takes us, figure out the course. It's a good ledge here to get stuff stuck under, thank you get sort of get it under there. There you go.

On the end of the magnet our clumps of what looks like iron filings, common in rivers

and not remarkable, we're not expecting to find anything. OPP had divers in the soggy river for a couple of days in spring 2005. They too were looking for Chrissy's glasses, but according to court documents they were searching at closest, about 400 meters upstream of where Ringel tells police he crossed the river with Chrissy, the spot where Owen and I are right now.

About the morning war blues around you, and I can really hear that morning war burnout. I wonder what they thought he was morning or who it was.

“Then canaly that morning warblower is right where I think Chrissy probably drifted to.”

I think I see some police tape over there. As we float down river from where I think Chrissy entered the water, something catches my eye. A tree on my left end up the steep embankment on the western side of the soggy. A tree with a lone red OPP tape tied to one of its lower branches.

From distant time ago I don't know when or for how long they were here. Put it inside the boat, piece of metal, curved piece of metal. Ooh, that's interesting. Does that look like it could have been from glasses. Owen has pulled up the magnet to find an old rusty nail and something else, a curved piece

of metal. Our excitement and wishful thinking wanted to be a piece of Chrissy's glasses, but I suspect it may be nothing.

“It does look like a piece from curved glasses, doesn't it?”

I don't know, it's obviously impossible to say and wishful thinking that it's from glasses. Okay, so we're almost ready to get out of here. Time to get back down the trail to hand over park. Mary Ann will soon be there after checking into her hotel, but someone else who will be helping us has just arrived.

Hello. Hi. How are you guys? Kim Cooper and Pauline Sunman have arrived with their dogs, Recky and Taz, cadaver dogs that will be part of the search today.

How's it been going since I saw you last? Yeah, it's busy. This year is where we're just saying it's probably the busiest year we had. Is that right? Yeah.

Kim and Pauline have volunteered on many searches like this, both live search and for human remains, including on SKS cases, and our hope is that they might find something where police searches did not. Kim wonders what I know about the perspective search area. I have a map that they're drew, but I mean, there is the area, right?

So spread other animals, floodplain, other animals could have taken bone anywhere, right?

“So whatever, you must have some kind of matrix for measuring that, right?”

The animals don't go far. Yeah. If Wringle is being truthful, but where he took Chrissy in 1993, her remains could still be in this area. The floodplain doesn't seem to be consistent or even that high, and if, as Cooper says,

other animals do not spread remains that far, we might have a slim chance, and it's one that Marianne is willing to take. Hi. Hi, how are you? I'm alright.

Good to see you. Thanks for coming.

Marianne has driven here from her home a few hours away.

She looks tired, but determined. Pauline and Kim, this is Marianne? Hi, I'm Kim. Nice to meet you. And today, I'm not expecting miracles, but feel free to wander around in the woods after

“the dogs if you want, but if you want to just kind of stay put in the shade, that's fine too.”

We begin our walk out to where I've placed the boats to make the crossing today. The likely point where Wringle says he and Chrissy went. So, we're coming up on the trail entrance here, and did police ever bring you out here before? No.

So, no one has ever brought you on this actual trail here. No. As we make our way out, it's tough going for Marianne. How are you doing so far? Good.

There's lots of places to hide, or that nobody would see her in this. Okay, now be careful here, there's a big log, we've got my arm there. Okay, that's good. You're good. Watch out, I slipped right around here in faceplan at this morning.

She's been here before though, right? She would have known the area, he certainly knew the area. So, right around here is where you start to see that other shore.

“So, we're coming out, this is the very tip here, you have to go really low though down here,”

it's a really, really narrow little trail. You think you can come through there? Yeah. Come on, this is where it gets slippery. Yeah, there you go.

Marianne and the dog handlers hunched down almost to their knees, following me on the final segment of trail that leads to the water's edge. So, this is the place where I think they probably got to. That makes sense. Yeah, and I think the red police tab is on that tree there, you can see it if you come over

this way of it, yeah, just on this side, and she drifted down a bit. The flow probably wouldn't have been much bigger than this at the time, so that log down there would be the last place. I would say no more than 30 feet in. So, if we're over here, like you say, 30 feet in or so, any kind of animal scatter should

only be 100 meters, not much more, yeah, wrangle. He was not implying that they were that far in. So, I would say if you started that log and you push, okay, so I'll take the dog and

pull him in over first, so she can get the work.

I retrieve the boat and padlet to where everyone is waiting. I'll shuttle group silver and pairs across the section of water, wrangle says he and Christy went through. All right, you think the dog's gonna like getting in here? Pauline and Taz get into the boat, and we're soon on the other side.

So, I'm gonna go along the shoreline, then I'll walk my way back and then when I feel I'm finished, I'll come back. Okay, and we'll just be looking around in here. Okay, great, good luck. I returned to pick up Mary Ann, she's afraid of water.

Christy too would have been afraid here and wasn't a strong swimmer. All right, this set of land for this journey across the river, it'll be a slow trip. When was the last time you were on that trail, Mary Ann? I didn't go quite that far, but yeah, it was that weekend. Meaning that weekend, when Christy disappeared in 1993, that weekend, yep.

So that weekend, you traveled that trail, but not that far, it was not that far.

No, I didn't. We get out of the boat on the other side of the river where we believe wrangle crossed with

Christy. Mary Ann has never been here before and ventures deep into the bush.

Oh, oh, shit, shit, sorry. Oh, here, give me your hand on there. Mary Ann's leg is disappeared into a deep hole in the ground. I help her out, and she's okay. The ferns and grasses are up to our shoulders, and we can't see the ground.

Walking is a process of feeling with tips of toes first, then proceeding. It's a nearly impossible task. There you go, step right over that, Mary Ann, sorry, I should have held on to you there. Bit of a clearing here, so that's a bit of a relief for you. Here you go.

I walk around on my own for a while and can hear the ring of taz. At one point taz comes up to me, and I cannot even see her. She's less than a foot away.

The overgrowth of ferns is too thick, and I come to a point of recognition.

This is too difficult. I return to Mary Ann in the clearing.

“So I think we should just go back to the beach myself, because it just seems pretty...”

I mean, we can keep wandering around, and hope that we hit the right spot, but be careful. Here's that hole. There's another hole there. We return to the beach after treaching back along our trail through the underbrush. She's doing pretty good walks going through there.

Mary Ann's fall makes her feel dizzy. We pause to catch our breath and await the searchers return. What do you think the Chrissy would be doing now? What you would be doing is probably have her own children, her own life, and she'd be out camping with them, being summer.

She loved to camp.

We can hear the bells, and Pauline and Taz suddenly appear out of seemingly nowhere.

So there was a little later that she's so pertopped, but she didn't indicate. You recorded that spot on there? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Good. How far down did you do that way?

“Well, I think I went as far as you'd pointed out.”

That log? Yeah, log. Okay. It's very dense in there. It's very dense.

Yeah. The better time to come is like a month and a half earlier. I'm going to probably have to come back, walk the whole area next to your kind of thing. Oh, even in full. In the fall.

Yeah. When everything dies down. Kim Cooper confirms that she and Recky will not continue the search today. Conditions are not right. I mean, I've got a lot of trust in Taz, I don't think it has to be worked again.

Okay.

“I'll revisit this place at some point, you know, it's too bad that it's so high, but I think”

smell is smell. I mean, if anything, the ferns are going to keep the smell down. Which isn't necessarily good. We like it up because then it moves around and the dogs can pick it up from further away because it's been carried by the wind.

If it's being smothered, it's, they can't be right on top. Yeah. Okay. Well, then that's. That's too bad.

Thanks for trying that. I may go try and do a little bit of metal detecting now, but I'll probably get out of here as well soon, but I think I can get all that stuff over here. My self and thanks so much. Yeah, and problem.

Kim and Pauline have agreed to come back here and I'll be here when it happens. That's when we had to go. If you go too early though, then it's too wet and tough to get around, muddy. If you go in the fall, you just have to go before freeze, so back at the hotel with Mary Anne for a debrief.

There's hard going through there and to try and find anything there would be difficult. Yeah, I was tough going, but that's, that's, that's okay, I mean, we tried. That's part of the reason we tried it is because we wanted to try. I trust the dogs, I trust the handlers, so I think that we have to kind of live with that. It also shows me that if that area had been searched because I went up and down

a path, like four times, and that path was easily discernible. You could easily see that path to the grass.

They both walked to the spot, somehow went to the spot, he forced Chrissy, but she went there

with her and would have trampled the grass too. So that's three different trips, or four different trips in the same area. I feel like she would have been found. Yeah, they didn't search. They would have found her.

The west side of the Sagan was not searched in 1993 after Chrissy disappeared, according to records. Yeah, I mean, even Pauline, you could see where she'd then after one walks her. I don't know, but sort of five days later, but a couple of days later, you would have been able to see that trail.

Exactly.

And I told them, I know she's there, I could feel it.

And that just makes me not angry, but it's unfortunate, right?

“And these are things you have to hold inside and accept as, you know, you're an expert”

at accepting, but not accepting, right? And you have to hold it inside and you have to accept that it's there, or else you won't be able to function. You have to be able to manage and survive with this stuff inside you, and you've done that commendably.

Yeah, I had to do it. If I wouldn't have lied to wonder, you know, yeah, it's just something I have to do. Yeah, I hope you have a safe journey home, you know, I wish we'd be able to say that

we found Chrissy today, but we'll see you.

And Paul, you're out, like I said, without you doing that, nothing would have happened. Well, it feels like something happened and the work was worthwhile anyways. And you're in it. I mean, you're the reason that we did it, right? All right.

Yeah, take care. I say my goodbyes and head back to the site to do some end of day metal detecting and together all the gear and my thoughts. If you fight the thing that you hate, or that you're afraid of, or that you can't solve,

“when you get the problems, you have to accept, you accept it, and you keep trying and you”

move on, and it's part of you, it's okay. She's part of this entire place now. She's not just in one place, which was her favorite place. It's cold kind of fruit, but that's okay. It's okay.

I find nothing with the detector. In fact, I find that it's more of a distraction, but this ridiculously beeping device is a good reminder. We're here to survive, but also to do more than that. And that is what we will do.

You gotta keep trying. You gotta keep trying. I don't think you need to accept it. I think you just have to keep trying. This is the final planned episode in the case of Christine Heron.

For more investigations, check out the past seasons of someone knows something. From a deadly bomb hidden inside a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the KKK, there are eight seasons of someone knows something you can binge listen to right now, wherever you get your podcasts.

“If you want to watch my original 2011 TV documentary, visit the CBC Podcasts channel on YouTube”

or hit the link in this week's show notes. Someone knows something is hosted written and produced by me, David Richen. The series is also produced by Katie Squires. Sound design by Evan Kelly Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Canal is our digital producer.

Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. Our podcast art was designed by Ben Shannon, our cross-promote producer is Amanda Cox. Our video producer is Evan A. Guard. Special thanks to Dave Modi and Sean Mormon.

Tonya Springer is the senior manager. RF Nurani is the director and Leslie Merkelinger is the executive director of CBC podcast.

And it's a film that's been released in the film.

And I'm crazy.

And I'm feeling you in the shade.

Tell me about it.

Yes, I'm the stage staff member.

But I'm the one playing. And I'm the one playing. Tell me about it. Tell me about it. And I'm the one playing.

For more CBC podcasts go to cbc.ca/podcasts.