Behind the Scenes Minis: Censorship Cats

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I'm Tracy B Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. This week we talked about the president's house site at Independence National Historical Park. Yeah. How all the signs were taken down and the some of them are up. Not all of them.

So you were on vacation otherwise we would have had like a slightly different episode because of the timing of when things happened. Because the whole thing really was completely and totally written when the order came that the site had to be restored. Oh yeah, we would have recorded already if that had not.

Yeah. And that would have been weirder than the many progressive rounds of edits that I did on the thing before we actually recorded it. The tone of it became slightly different every time because what was being described in terms of the removal of things. Like it was it was different depending on what was back up and for a while. News reports from Philadelphia made it sound like everything had been put back.

Right. Which I was kind I was like that's impressive because I knew having seen what it looked like when the panels were taken down. That the metal ones what was left was like the mounting display with adhesive all over it. Yeah. And I was like I don't know how they're going to put those back up.

Like how is that even going to happen? This looks like something that was supposed to be permanent that was like physically torn apart.

“And I think that is at least part of why they were not put back up.”

Yeah. I think there are real reasons that you cannot have adhesive cure properly in some freezing conditions during a blizzard. I think that's probably reasonable. Well, I also wonder and then you may have heard but given the manner in which they were taken down. Were they damaged? I think some of them have been damaged in some amount is in terms of like they have to be flattened back out right.

They were right. They were pulled off so they have to be flattened back out. They have to like the adhesive has to be taken off of the frames that were still hanging on the walls at the site. Like that old adhesive has to be removed. New adhesive has to be put on there. The panels have to be flattened back out.

If they were damaged in any other way that has to be repaired and all of that has to put be put back up.

I also feel like that fact allows the government to keep down the panels that they most wanted to take down in the first place.

Because that has like they have the most specific detail about slavery specifically at the president's house. And then more generally at the end of the 18th century in the newly established United States.

“I went back through my pictures from when I made that trip to be like, do I have pictures from the president's house?”

I did not take any pictures of the president's house site.

I did take a selfie of myself with the liberty bail though. So as a trip I took to Philadelphia where I walked all over creation. Yeah. So independent national historical park was specifically referenced in that executive order as something that need this needing to be addressed. And one of the things in it says that at independent national historical park where our nation declared that all men are created equal quote.

“The prior administration sponsored training by an organization that advocates dismantling Western foundations and interrogating institutional racism.”

And pressured national historical park rangers that their racial identity should dictate how they convey history to visiting Americans because America is purportedly racist. I went down a big rabbit hole trying to figure out what training that text is referencing. Right, because that sounds to me like the most worst faith reading of a routinely normal yeah anti racism training. Yeah, but I did not I was not able to find out like what specific training had prompted that text to be in the executive order.

We've gotten a really lot a lot of like really great supportive email from listeners lately. We've also gotten a couple of people who have written to basically say stop being so political.

Yeah, so I just want to like spell it out. The president of the United States, which is the country that we live in and work in and our citizens of has specifically called the kind of history that we talk about on the show improper ideology. Like there is not an apolitical response to that no if we vocally say no that's political. If we say nothing and adjust our content to align with this executive order that is also political that's not something we would do I'm just saying that's a political move also right.

If we said nothing and didn't really change anything that too is political there is no apolitical response to the president of the United States targeting the field that you work in there's just not no there's really not. And here's my thing in this maybe a little heady and I invoke this all the time. I don't understand the mentality of someone who wants to erase all of the uncomfortable and bad stuff from our history. And the thing that I always find myself going back to is the writing of William Blake like the Blakey and ideology that you cannot in fact be truly good unless you have been tempted by evil unless you have been.

So someone who has had that moment where you have done something that that maybe is not truly good and it's recognizing those two things existing and choosing the good thing as often as possible that actually makes a man or a person or an entity good.

“And to me that makes it so much more valuable like that's why we need that's part of why we need to reckon with all of the uncomfortable parts of our history.”

As no value to say we have always been great and everybody's always been great and we've always done things right because all that tells me it's like great you lived in a vacuum where you've never were forced to like make any choices or do any growth. Yeah like I don't there's no value in that that's a that's a big fat like. I'm trusting when no cake under it like I don't I don't have. So as much as I love frosting listen I'll eat a can of frosting but what I'm saying just like there's. In devalues the good things we have done to ignore the bad things that have happened as well right right and I don't know why anybody who wouldn't want to do that unless they just cannot deal with reality.

And the fact that having been there having looked at these signs having read the text on them I found them to be accurate and thought provoking and not something that would cause a person.

To like need to rip them down with crowbars unless maybe their feelings were so delicate and unregulated that any mention of slavery causes a tantrum about DEI or wokeness or political correctness or whatever we are calling it nowadays. Mandatory theory mandatory therapy for all. Yeah so there's a whole book about the president's house site I have not read it but I wanted to say that it exists it's called upon the ruins of slavery. No sorry upon the ruins of liberty slavery the president's house that independent national historical park and public memory that sounds like it would be a very interesting read to me it is just not something that I was able to read.

While working on this there are also various books about hercules about own a judge about other people who were enslaved at president's house site lots of other information available. You know Real Doll the writer who thought of Willy Wonka Matilda and the BFG but did you know he was also a spy was this before he wrote his stories I must have been.

“Our new podcast series the secret world of role doll is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary controversial life.”

His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans and he was really good at it you probably won't believe it either.

Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you because it was a spy. Did you know doll got cozy with the Roosevelt's play poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman and then he took his talents to Hollywood where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever and what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote.

Listen to the secret world of role doll on the iHart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Clayton Nackard and in 2020 I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

“Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected the internet turned on him.”

If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show? Made even bigger headlines. It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral.

The dating contract agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

“I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.”

I don't know if he took it or it did by the **** rats lurk. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Next Monday, our 2026 iHart podcast awards are happening live in South by Southwest. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. Creativity, knowledge and passion will all be on full display.

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A couple of other things that kind of jumped out to me while I was working on this like in the context that I was working on it.

has seemed to be focused primarily on things that happened during the Biden administration.

“Like the specific order was look at things that happened since 2020.”

So since the last full year of the first Trump presidency like that's the focus of what we're looking at.

While this site, the president's house site was not dedicated until 2010. The vast majority of work on it was done during the presidency of George W. Bush. So it's like there's just been this big focus with the executive order specifically about Joe Biden. But like also an undertone of things that might have been done when Democrats were in the White House. Right, but like vast majority of the work on the president's site for the president's house site was during the the George Bush George W. Bush presidency.

Also judge Cynthia Roof. A George W. Bush appointee.

“So her incredibly scathing order to put everything back begins with a quote from George Orwell's 1984.”

Basically framing all of this is dystopian government overreach.

Yeah, also the kinds of information that have been taken down. I had a whole paragraph about this and I felt like this episode was getting really long and I wanted to try to rain it in a little bit. So the information that has been taken down at sites like as examples. Information about climate change and retreating glaciers has been taken down at glacier national park. Where receding glaciers are directly relevant to the park.

Multiple signs have been taken down for my Katie and National Park in Maine, including ones on climate change.

And one on the site's cultural significance to the Wabanaki people.

Science about sea level rise at Fort Sumpter on the coast of South Carolina. Also directly relevant to Fort Sumpter sea level rise. Science have been taken down about that display referencing the loss cause mythology of the US civil war, just talked about on the show before that was taken down from the National Battlefield Park in Virginia. Those are just examples.

I learned like, you know, as I was having to go through and continually revise this as things were changing before it got recorded. Low national historical park in Massachusetts incorporates the boot cotton mills museum. It is a mill museum like a factory museum and the workers there were ordered to stop showing a film about what the conditions were like at the mills. Like the one of the points of having a historical park at a mill. It's not clear whether it's related to this executive order or some of the other executive orders of which there are many.

But the words transgender and queer were completely scrubbed from the Stonewall National Historic Site website. Yeah. And they were also forced to take down the rainbow flag citing rules about what kinds of flags can fly at federal properties. Didn't they just put it back up though?

“Did I see that somebody just went and put one back up?”

I'm not sure if they put it back up or if neighbors put it up adjacent. Yeah, I mean the most bonkers like there's no way to reframe Stonewall right that isn't that yeah it's so bonkers yeah so yeah just all all of those things that have been taken down. Like they all have the same it's like it's not targeting information that's wrong it's not targeting information that. In accurate it's all clearly targeting things that are considered to be like progressive left wing ideas. Right.

Rather than climate change, which is a scientific reality. Anyway, anyway, we talked on the show about when the National Park Service had signs put up with a QR code that people could submit their commentary. Yeah, we talked about that in an installment of an Earth. That's connected to all of this with the executive order. The Sierra club did FOIA requests to see what kinds of things people have put in in these these QR code things.

Some of them are legit like legitimate needs that need to be addressed like the bathroom stall door is broken. The there's not enough parking like these are things I remember I can't get the link to open right now while also running the thing that is recording our podcast.

And then there's a lot of it a lot of a lot of comments where people have taken the opportunity to say this directive is a white washing of history. And then there is a segment of them that are just I would classify as trolling.

“So I think if you like Google something like Sierra club FOIA request national parks, you can get to these and read them yourself.”

I can't I can't get it to open right now. So anyway, there are still a number of ongoing community efforts to document science at the parks a save our science project is one of them. So again, a lot of this is an ongoing ongoing developing story. Yeah, you know Rolldall, the writer who found up Willy Wonka, Matilda and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? I must have been.

Our new podcast series, the secret world of Rolldall is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary controversial life.

His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans and he was really good at it.

You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. Okay, that was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's?

Play poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film.

“How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever?”

And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? True story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Rolldall on the hi-heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Nackard and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected.

The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show? Made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal.

The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. Which is such fun. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I don't know the exact answer. Listen to Love Trapped on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Next Monday, our 2022 six-eye-hard podcast awards are happening live in South by Southwest. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. I heart rate you all.

Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8pm Eastern 5pm Pacific Free at feeps.com or the Veeps app. Aigo Woda is your host for the 26-eye-hard podcast awards live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom. Aigo may have a few father-related issues.

Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, thanks dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow SNL alumns, comedians, musicians, and more. About life and they're wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Aigo. Follow thanks dad with Aigo Woda and start listening

on the free-eye-hard radio app today. We also talked about Tae-Fiel Steinland and his art and politics this week. We did do that. One thing we didn't talk about was anarchism. Okay.

As a political concept. Yeah.

“Which I think is important because listen, if you're a kid like me...”

Who grew up listening to the sex pistols? You have a different view of anarchy than a lot of other people. Like we, I think, especially in America.

In the US, we think of anarchy as always being very about violence and destruction.

And like chaos. Chaos, thanks John Lydon. I runny there because that's not what he is anymore. But really when you look at the concepts of anarchy historically politically, there certainly were parts, some parts of it that were interested in violence

But a lot of it and certainly the part of it that I think Tae-Fiel Steinland was most attracted to was this idea that if you got rid of centralized government, and this is a little bit sweet and perhaps naive, that people could be taking care of each other without needing all of that fuss. Which is a beautiful way to look at it.

And it seems very much in line with the way he lived his life. And his pacifism more so than that more kind of violent approach to it. But I just wanted to point that out in some context as we talked about this this week, because like I said, if you're like me and you grew up in the 80s, anarchy was very much pitched as like destroy everything.

Right, just mash all of it, smash all of it, smash all. No, no, some, a lot of anarchy is about actually taking care of one another.

“Yeah, well, and I think a lot of it also sort of like acknowledges the harm that governments have done.”

Right, so even though we have a lot of things that I think are good that come from governments. Sometimes we like the harm that is done at the behest of governments can get less of a focus. I mean, not with gigantic things like starting wars, people will acknowledge that. But there's a lot of stuff that happens day to day on a smaller scale, that I think anarchy kind of confronts more than a lot of people really think about.

Yeah, yeah. One of the other things I want to talk about is actually to me quite funny. It's in our show notes, but it, it's in a write up on EBSCO where they talked about all of those like, French censorship laws that we kind of went through. Oh, yeah.

And one of them is this very funny thing that is described in that write up, where theater censorship laws had played out in such a way that shows could not include certain portions of a script. But the plays that they were producing could still be printed in their original state. And what started to happen was that crowds would take their printouts and go to the shows and they would shout out the original versions. That's amazing.

“And it kind of became this anti-censorship demonstration.”

But to me, I'm like, this is the first rocky horror picture show and it's very political. And I love this idea because this is the weird rocky horror. Yeah, I love it. I love it so much, just the concept of that and how that gets started and like the this organically developed of people wanting to yell at the stage, the parts that the actors were leaving out.

I envision, I don't know, I never found a write up on specifically any of these instances,

but I envision actors taking a dramatic pause while we've been like, "Your turn." And the audience yells out the part of the play that they can't say. I think that's brilliant. Yeah. We talked a little bit at the end of the episode about Shadow Wars everywhere.

Yeah. When I say everywhere, I mean everywhere. Like if you do an internet surge, you will find them in like small towns around the world. Yeah. Where they're just like a Q Cafe that somebody opened up and they love like, you know, this idea of of the late 19th century Paris Bohemian culture.

Or some of them just seem to really love that poster and they want to base a whole color scheme around it. And others go all out and they try to replicate the time and stuff.

“So I think that, I don't know, part of me thinks it would be fun to try to just do a tour of them.”

But that would be fun. I think. I love it. There is a very funny, I almost put in the episode, but I didn't funny to me. Antiques road showed that features a Tafield Steinland.

Okay. And it is lithograph. This woman initially thinks it's a painting, but it's a lithograph.

And when the guy tells her it's a lithograph, she looks disappointed at first and then he was like, no, it's still really valuable.

But it's one of the original lithographs of he did this, this dual cat portrait thing that is a summer cat and a winter cat. And the summer cat is kind of out. It looks like he's sitting out on a, like the wooden, you know, what is sort of the thing of, you know? Like the, the thing that goes around your deck. Railing.

Yeah, there you go. Railing. Railing evaded me. He looks like he's sitting on this wooden railing. And he looks actually kind of grumpy.

It's a great piece of work. And this woman has brought it to Antiques roadshow.

And the first thing she says is, I don't like cats.

But she had been told it was valuable, so she kept it. Yeah. But because she didn't like cats, she had kept it outside on her porch for like 15 years. But it obviously was a very well-covered porch because it had degraded much. Although the person that's doing the evaluation has says kind of like, hey, you know,

the lithographic material has stuck to the glass a little bit.

Oh, yeah. And kind of, but it was very funny.

“I think he evaluates it as being like worth ten to twelve thousand dollars.”

And he's like, do you like cats now? And she's like, well, yeah, I think so. And it's just this very funny exchange, but like anyway. One of the the last thing I really want to talk about is that prison narrative. Yeah.

Because there is a lot of interesting writing in it. Some of it is very just funny. I mean, I will say when we think of a prison narrative today, we think of modern prisons. And this definitely seems to be a more relaxed scenario than we would associate with prison today, right?

Like these men were essentially living in a cell together, but it was like they had like furniture and tables and chairs. Right. You know, people could come visit them and people that visited them could bring them whatever food they wanted. So they kind of had like, they were isolated and they were certainly, you know, not free,

but they they can have a lot of comforts of home there that we might not associate with it. So some of it is just like cookie anecdotes about their life in prison. Yeah. But there was one passage that I read and I haven't found a full English translation of it. So I had translated pieces of it with my, you know, sometimes murky,

but overall okay French, and then I, you know, consulted some other friends that translate as well. And there was one passage that really, really struck me.

“And it's so pertinent to the way we all think about incarceration and how important it is to recognize the danger of incarceration,”

creating a person that is not really going to be able to participate in recidivism. Oh, okay. Because you're changed so much by the experience. Yeah. And that passage reads, man is an animal who, however, and sociable he may seem, can only live in society.

His confinement within four walls, dulls his senses, his faculties, his organs. The brain no longer stimulated by a succession of images becomes numb. If the soclusion is prolonged and the prisoner does not find sustenance for his activity, there is a danger of intellectual death. And I really loved how poignant that was.

So I just want to read it. Yeah. That it will, it will ruin the person in ways that people probably were not considering. Right. And that was sort of part of their whole.

Often very funny take down of the whole justice system. It's like nobody's thinking stuff through. Nobody's right. They literally just want to tick boxes and say they did a thing to a lot, but they don't. They're not really considering the consequences of the way they carry that out.

I was really interesting. Yeah. It's been a super long time. But we did an episode on the attic a prison uprising. Yes. Back some years ago.

And one of the things that we talked about was how like.

The system of prison was basically just leaving people worse off than they had been.

When they were sentenced to prison. And not having a way to escape that cycle. And they reminds me of that. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway. Taffeele Steinlin. Now we all know who he is. He can get proper attribution for his beautiful work. And not confuse him with to lose the trick.

No. I understand it. There. You know.

“If you had asked me, that's what I would have said.”

A lot of people would. Yeah. A lot of people would. And especially because they knew each other. Yeah. They knew a lot of the same people.

They were sometimes portraying similar subjects. And there are, it makes sense. Yeah. They had some similar subject matter of like their commercial art, especially. For sure, for sure.

But that is Taffeele Steinlin. I hope that if this is your weekend coming up. You have time to look at beautiful art. Whatever it is that touches your soul the most or inspire you. Whatever fits your tastes.

If you don't have time off, maybe sneak in some art. Look in online if you get a few minutes.

It's always good for the soul.

More make art if that makes you happy. Nothing makes me feel more at peace when I'm just making something. We hope that everybody is being kind to one another. These very, very stressful times we live in. Every human kindness helps in my opinion.

We'll be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode. Thanks for spending this time with us. Stuff you missed in history class is a production of "I Heart Radio." For more podcasts from "I Heart Radio," visit the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

He thought it really wonka in the BFG.

But did you know he was a spy?

“In the new podcast, the secret world of Rolldahl.”

I'll tell you that story and much, much more. What? You probably won't believe it either. Was this before you wrote his stories? I must have been.

Okay, I don't think that's true.

I'm telling you. Okay, that was a spy. Listen to the secret world of Rolldahl.

“On the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.”

I'm Clayton Nackard, in 2020, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing.

Bachelors fans hated him.

If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral.

The dating contract.

“Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you.”

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to the love trapped on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Next Monday, our 2020 six-eye-hard podcast awards are happening live in South by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcast thing.

We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year, and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be unfolded display. Thank you so much.

I Heart Radio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern 5 p.m. Pacific Free. It Feeps.com or The Feeps app.

I think it's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow thanks Dad with Ego Wota and start listening on the free "I Heart Radio" app today. This is an "I Heart Podcast." Guaranteed human.