Selects: How Peanut Butter Works

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Listen to everyone watches women's sports on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everybody. It's Chuck, and in COVID time, it's May 14th, 2020, and on this Saturday's select, we're going to bring you an episode called How Peanut Butter Works, and boy, oh boy, I remember

loving this one. I think I was eating a lot of peanut butter at the time during COVID, because we had a good store of it already, and I love peanut butter. And I think we talk a lot about how much we both like peanut butter in this episode. So it's bound to make you hungry, and the good news is now you can just go right to your

store and pick it up, and a smile or real smile at people that's not hidden behind a mask. So let's celebrate that. Go out and get some peanut butter and smile.

“Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of IHeart Radio.”

Hey, and welcome to Peanut Butter Jelly Time. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. We haven't seen Jerry in a while. If you have seen Jerry, please tell her to call home, and this is Stuff You Should Know.

Yeah, Jerry. She sent out a smoke signal that said send to me. She did, she did, and we sent some on donkey back in that general direction. Are you peanut butter or jelly in this scenario?

I want to be peanut butter, you always make me be jelly.

Well, I think we should level set here at the beginning, and talk about if you like peanut butter, which is your favorite, and then what you like, how do you utilize it? Okay. My name is Josh C, and I love peanut butter. Almost only smooth.

I will eat chunky if the civilization is collapsed, and that's all I can find. Okay. I eat it anyway, shape or form, sometimes just peanut butter on a spoon, sometimes peanut butter on a spoon with a little divot made with my tongue filled with local honey.

“If you want to get tubby really fast, let me introduce you to the wonder that is a spoonful”

of peanut butter scooped in some cool whip. But really any peanut butter, any time I will eat it, and I've noticed that once I reached my 40s, peanut butter sticks around me a lot more than it used to, so I'm having a real struggle with it. Thank you for listening.

And do you want to buzz market your favorite brand? We use this GIF natural, that's like, it's like an brown container, and I like it so much,

I've never, I purposely never looked at the label, because I don't want to know how natural

it is, but my all-time favorite is Reese's peanut butter, like they're like, have you had it? You mean in the jar? Yes. Yes.

Oh, it's so good. I think I've had it once. But I was raised on GIF. Now go. Well I was raised on whatever the gigantic gallon tub is that used to get, and I don't remember,

Now I mean, I love peanut butter, it's one of my favorite things in the world. And I will go crunchy or smooth, no matter, I love them both. I also like it with honey. I like it, and I don't do this much, obviously, 'cause it's just, I'm not 19 years old, but a peanut butter and mayonnaise sandwich is one of the best things in the world.

Do you know I've never had that, is it good really?

Do you have any QP? Yes. Do you have peanut butter and QP Sammy? Okay, so half and half, or more peanut butter than mayo, or what? It's kind of your jam, I definitely don't go light on the mayo, 'cause you got to have

that tang. Okay. Uh, peanut butter and marshmallow fluff, I used to eat when I was a kid. Yeah, that's good stuff. Fluffer nutter.

And now I don't eat the sugary, hydrogenated types.

“I either have one of the sort of artisan natural kinds, you have to mix up, or just the”

cap farmers market grinds the peanuts right in front of your face, into a tub and hands into you. Right in front of your face, and this is beat it, you can't have any of this. So that's just peanuts, obviously. Yeah, maybe a little bit of salt, do they add any salt?

There's a really just peanuts. It's just peanuts. Wow.

I wonder if they salt the peanuts when they roast them, think it's I've always

seen peanuts with just a little bit of salt, like you can't have peanut butter in the other way, but maybe they figured out they crack the code. Well, I mean, they may be salted and roasted, have no idea about the peanut, but it's good. It's all good. But I have to mix, you know, I got to put a little bit of honey in there, maybe a little

bit of a gov-a to give it a little bit of a sweet. Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah, I was going to ask you, I've not had any artisan stuff, and I did a little research and found a couple I want to try. And I didn't know, like, is it just straight up adult kind of stuff where you're like,

"Oh, that's really good, but you're wishing that you had like the nasty, big, three-bran instead?" Well, I mean, if you don't add any sweetener nuts, it's not nearly as good as, you know.

“But I think the naturals are all kind of the same as far as sweetness level.”

Yeah, the best I could discern is that if you're paying for artisan craft peanut butter

and buddy, you're paying, you're like supposedly depending on the kind of peanuts that are chosen, the variety of peanuts, the way that it's roasted, almost like a coffee or a wine or something like that. There's like a sophisticated pallet or tear-wall or that you really have to pay attention to.

That to me is kind of like the opposite of what peanut butter is supposed to be. It's supposed to be like this dumb, messy thing where, you know, your hair's totally normal and you start eating the peanut butter and you suddenly have like a cowlick and you're wearing a striped shirt that shows your gut kind of thing, you know, like you just regret an age, but I also get wanting to enjoy peanut butter in a healthy way because

it is surprisingly from what I saw it, it's healthier than you would suspect if done right. Yes, not a big glob of Peter Pan with QP mayonnaise and potato chips smashed in between white bread. I am too.

I already had some peanut butter this morning, so I'm good to go, but this thing, this is like the yawning episode where I kept yawning doing research, this is, I just wanted peanut butter the whole time. Well peanut butter for me has now become my, in my sense January and I'm trying to lose some weight, so that's become my sweet treat at the end of the night instead of going

and getting ice cream. Oh, good for you, just like a spoonful of peanut butter and honey and that'll say see that desire. I haven't seen you in a while, how's it going?

“That's good, I mean, I'm down 20 since January, but what?”

Really leveled off the past month. Congratulations, dude, that is really impressive, you know, just 40 more to go. Man, no, that's really great, man, just, yeah, yeah, it does play toe, but it picks up again, don't worry. Well, it plettoes because of quarantine alcoholism.

Oh, I was going to ask, because I'm finding that quarantine has made things like, you know, we have food and everything, but we're eating it less for some reason rather than the opposite, which both you and I were really concerned was going to be the way it went. Are you finding it easier to keep up with food or harder? Easier because I'm cooking a lot, cheese and buzzmarking it again, but you know, I'm just

having one of those mics and mighty goods for lunch, which is very low on calories. Yeah, it's really good, too. And you know, I'm just tracking the calories and it's alcohol, that's the problem right now. I got you. Yeah, I've been doing one or two nights a week tops and then a couple and I've been pretty

good now that I think about it. It's good. Yeah, because this has been fairly stressful, but I haven't been stressing too much, so okay, anyway, peanut butter, here to me, Chuck early on, we happened upon the fact

pun that peanut butter outside of the United States in a lot of different countries

“is looked upon as very weird and gross in much the same way that we Americans tend to think”

of like, vegemite, people like the British, Chinese, other countries do not think peanut butter is particularly good, they think it's a little nasty. And that just blew me away to read that. Yeah, I'd want to talk to some people before I'd let some internet website tell me that people think peanut butter's gross.

Some some website push your burying around. Yeah, I'd like to talk to some folks about that. But at the very least, even if they don't think it's gross, it is an all-American thing. Like even countries that do enjoy, I've read that Australia actually likes it a lot. It's an American concoction, so much so that like, it might be the most American concoction

there is to tell you the truth.

Yeah, I mean, you make a good point here, you put this stuff together that Mac and cheese came from Europe, hot dogs came from Europe, sort of hamburgers, even though I would argue that the hamburgers we know it is is pretty American. Sure, but peanut butter just us as far as modern times go.

“Yeah, I think that the inca in the 15th century used to grind peanuts into a paste and then”

that was it until the 19th century when one of our buddies who's going to make a cameo later got his hands on the idea. But yeah, it was an American invention, except it was actually Canadian as we'll see. But for the most part, people think of it as all American. And to talk about peanut butter chuck, we kind of have to talk about peanuts.

There's really no way around it. Believe me, I don't want to, but we have to. I think it mean goobers. Have you ever heard somebody outside of TV call on that? Not really, but I knew it was a thing, but it's not in just daily, nomenclature of

my crowd. But it is, it's supposedly like a southern and I guess an antiquated southern word for peanut, a goober, or a goober pea. Yeah, I've heard a goober and that old song about the Raisinette's goober, well, goober's is also a candy, right?

Yeah, and there's smuckers, goober's, which is peanut butter and jelly mix together in a jar. It's actually good. Is it? Yeah, even as a kid, I was like, this is going to be gross, and then I tried it. I was like, not bad.

Not bad. It's smuckers. It's going to be discerning with my jams and jelly, so that's for another day though. You would not like this. I probably wouldn't like smuckers, but if you're at all discerning, you would not like it.

All right, so peanut is a, it's a legume, it's also called a ground nut or an earth nut, and just like a lintle or a pea, it is a little legume, and not a nut. No, I'm a big fan of peanuts though, I like to eat them pretty much anyway, you can slice it from boiled to straight up raw out of the shell, like I'm honey rusted, rusted and roasted and certainly in peanut butter.

So Momo and I go and visit squirrels whenever we can, when we go on walks, and we always

take peanuts, and I read your supposed to take roasted unsalted peanuts, so we get like big bags of those, and if there's no squirrels out, I get to eat all peanuts. Oh, yeah. Oh, give me a look, like, those are not for you, but they usually end up in my tummy, anyway.

Yeah, we're seeing a squirrel stick one of those in his mouth sideways. Yep. I have darn cute. Yeah, and we'll, like, all shell them, and then throw like the actual peanut in the squirrel. Somehow we'll know that they're supposed to be another one coming, because they'll

very frequently put one in his cheek, and then like, be like, okay, toss me the other one, then I'll take that run off and like eat it with this too little hand, it's really adorable.

“Right, or they might stick around to see if it's one of the rare three bangers, right?”

Which is just, that's a good squirrel day, right there. All right, so these things are legumes, and we think they originated in South America. You mentioned Peru, even though we cannot prove that through the fossil record, but they have found evidence in the archeological culture from Peru from about 7,600 years ago. And it was sort of one of these things where they found the fact that they were farming

this stuff, and then when you see it in like artwork and pottery and stuff like that, then you know it's sort of a thing. Yeah, right, the peanut has arrived, and it shows up on pottery, you know, for real. They've also found them, I guess, in tombed with mummies from the Inca and the Aztecs, which makes sense, because when the conquisitors arrived, the Spanish and the Portuguese

to South America and Central America, they found peanuts being grown as far north as Mexico,

them back with them, they took them to Spain and Spain passed them along to the rest of Europe, and the Philippines, and China.

“The Portuguese took it back again to Europe, but also to India and Africa, and peanuts”

started to be farmed all over the world. The world loves peanuts, it's just not necessarily peanut butter that they're crazy about. And then in a really kind of weird surprising twist, the peanuts were re-exported back to the Americas from Africa as part of the West African slave trade, and actually that word "gubber," that southern word "gubber," they think comes from a Congolese word, or Congo

with a K word, "enguba." Yeah. Pretty surprising. Sure, "gubber" and "enguba," close enough, yeah, but to think the peanut, you think the peanut is just American as it comes, and then even as Georgia as it comes, but the

idea that it wouldn't have been here had it not been for the importation of African slaves that re-introduced the peanut to the Americas, that's a pretty circuitous and weird route for it to take. Yeah, and Africa still grows about 25% of the peanuts in the world, and we're just below that at about 21% here in the States.

“And it took all the way to 1842 that we started growing them commercially in the U.S.”

in Virginia as where it first started for oil and food and to substitute out for cocoa. And it just wasn't like, it was kind of like for people that didn't have the means to buy something better, or maybe feed it to your animals or something like that. Yeah, it was good for livestock and the poverty stricken basically was who were expected to eat peanuts at the time.

That's right. It just like, like, lobster, if you ever read, consider the lobster that, "Oh, man, I want to see David Lee Roth so bad, but I know it's not his name at all." Who wrote "Consider the Lobster?"

I've never heard of that, but who was that good?

No about the lobster. Who was "end of tour" about that movie? Oh, David Foster Wallace. Oh, sure. Sure.

Yeah.

“He wrote this really great magazine article once called "Consider the Lobster."”

It's good. But in it, he explains that it used to be considered a food fit only for the poor, basically. Yeah. You know, it gets peanuts were considered the same. That's right.

You know, they were sea spiders. Yeah, or the cockroaches of the sea. Disgusting. It is kind of gross to me, you think of it like that. And apparently there was a law that said that you could only feed so much lobster to

patience and mental asylum at the time, or else it became abusive. Wow. Yeah. They didn't know what they'd try them on a hot dog bun with mayonnaise. So one of the reasons why the peanut was viewed is such a lowly crop was that it was, again,

it was used for oil, which, I mean, this wasn't necessarily just cooking oil. They would use it to lubricate machinery, that kind of stuff. So the idea of eating the same thing that your machinery lube came from was probably not super appetizing.

But it was also, like, you would get just basically trash when you got a bag of peanuts,

because there was no easy way to harvest it, stem them, clean them, and prepare them for basically general consumption. So again, you could just dump it into a trough and feed it to your livestock, or you could spend a lot of time trying to separate it, or you could just be like, I'm not, I'm not messing with this.

But for a long time, they didn't mess with it actually. Yeah. When the civil war happened, the Union soldiers got their hands on some of our southern peanuts, and they said these are delicious, and both armies ate a lot of peanuts. And then when the circus rolled around with PT Barnum, Hugh Jackman, they started selling

peanuts there, hot roasted peanuts, and especially in the cheap seats, they become known as the peanut gallery. And that's where that phrase came from, which is kind of interesting. Yeah, because apparently, if they didn't like what they saw, they would toss their peanuts that they were eating at the stage, so that's where peanut gallery came from.

Yeah, and then you've got them on the street corners, you've got them at baseball games, peanuts are starting to get a little traction as a snack, but they were still not, it was still hard to get a really good quality peanuts, because like you said, the way they were being harvested at the time by hand, it was just tough to do. And then so two African-Americans around the, the turn of the last century stepped up and

basically said, we're going to make the peanut what it is today. So one obviously was George Washington Carver, who's known as basically the father of the peanut, who actually contrary to popular belief did not invent peanut butter, but

he did come up with more than 300 different ways to use the peanut, and I never realized

like why he was so bonkers for peanuts, but one of the reasons he was trying to make the

from going cotton for so long, and then, you know, at the worst of this, there was a bowl

weevil outbreak that just ruined the rest of the cotton crop. So the south really needed something to replace cotton in George Washington Carver helped introduce and popularize peanuts and say, "Don't only can you eat these things, look at all this other stuff you can make out of them." That's right, and there was another guy around the same time named Ben Hicks, Mr. Benjamin Hicks.

He was from Virginia, and we already talked about being a big peanut state, and he invented a gas powered machine for cleaning and stemming these things. He got it patented, like a lot of, well, it still goes on, I guess, with a little guy in their patents, a big farm came around, and a farm equipment company challenged him. He actually had to go to court, but won the case in 1901, and this picker was a big, big deal

in modernizing peanut farming, and all of a sudden, you could get really good peanuts, a lot quicker, doesn't take as many hands, or man hours, or person hours, and the demand for peanuts for oil, for eating them, and peanut butter and candy, I'll just kind of win through the roof at that point. Yeah, because you could get your hands on good peanuts, they were widely available, and they were

just delicious, everyone saw, finally, how great peanuts are, but not peanut butter yet,

and I propose Charles that we take a break, and then come back really dig into the peanut butter, let's do it. What's up fam, I'm sports journalist, Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast

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“roar to go from California to Hawaii, my first husband was like, what's up with the snacks?”

Like, what do we eat?

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your podcast.

went. But it was actually a Canadian who they think was probably the actual inventor of modern

peanut butter. A guy who I had never heard of before, his name was Marcellus Gilmore Edson Wallace.

I'm kidding, but the last part. It was just me that was going. Marcellus Gilmore Edson.

“You just can't say the name Marcellus and not follow it up with Wallace somewhere, you know?”

It really has become like peanut butter and jelly. So he patented a paste made of peanuts in 1884, which was described by him and his patent as a room temperature having a consistency like that of butter, lard, or ointment. It sounds gross, but when you think about peanut butter, that's kind of about right. He added sugar to stabilize it a little bit, and this was kind of like

the first modern peanut butter that we think of as peanut butter. It's sold for about six

cents a pound, which is a pretty good price. Yeah, and from what I can tell just reading about it, if you try it today, you'd be like, yeah, it's peanut butter. Whereas if you tried some of the other stuff, you'd be like, you know, yeah, that's that artisan peanut butter. It's punishing. Yeah. And the other stuff was first developed. So it's interesting to me that there's in the first try right out of the gate, the guy who invents peanut butter basically invents the modern version of it.

And then it takes a big step backwards or sideways, I guess you can say depending on your viewpoint, when our buddy Dr. John Harvey Kellogg comes along. And if you'll remember from the live show we did on the Kellogg brothers, he invented nutbutters. And in particular, peanut butter is considered

“one of the main inventors of peanut butter. Well, yeah, it was right at his alley because I think”

that might be my favorite live show we've done, actually. Oh, yeah. I think so. VR was my favorite. VR, I knew you were going to say that. You did. Yeah, that was a good one. You did. I think those

are my top two. What about pentos, man? What about my be Cooper? Those might be the first four

that I would name. What else have we done, malls bars? We did the secret one that is still supposedly on tour, but on hiatus right now. I think that's it. I think that's all. Well, I'm going to go with John Harvey Kellogg because he, if you listen to that one, he was very big on chewing food until it was the consistency of peanut butter basically. And so peanut butter comes along and he's like, well, this is perfect because you don't have to chew it like that. It's already like that. It'll just

“glide right through your system and come out as delicious peanut butter poop. Yeah, and it won't”

poison your entire body and you want to spend any time in the electric light bath. That's right. We're the needing machine. So Dr. Kellogg creates basically what we would recognize today as the the artisan version of peanut butter. It's just ground up peanuts that form a paste. And apparently that's just a natural thing that happens. Like if you put roasted peanuts in a food processor, it's going to turn like gritty in everything. But if you just keep going, it eventually reaches

this point, this threshold where that grit turns into this oily paste, like peanut butter, like an ointment, like Marcellus Wallace would call it. And that's basically what John Harvey Kellogg did and served at Battle Creek. But most of the people who would have been exposed to peanut butter would not have tried John Kellogg's because, you know, that sanitarium was really expensive. And it was for the wealthy. It was for celebrities. So most people experience peanut butter

at one of two places. And Chuck, I really found out and researching this, that the history of peanut butter is super murky. It's like a spoonful of peanut butter stirred up into glass of water kind of murky, right? Where it is kind of gross. Where it's just not entirely clear who did what when whose contribution has been disproportionately mythologized. But from what I can tell, John Harvey Kellogg is definitely one of the fathers of peanut butter. Mr. Marcellus was one as well. And then

it gets a little murky or after that. It's so much so that people say, well, peanut butter made as debut at the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair. And then other people like, no, no,

credible sources that say either one. So I have no idea where it made as debut. I believe it was

“sold for sure at the St. Louis World Fair in 1904 and that a guy named CH Summers sold like”

$20,000 worth of peanut butter as snack items there. But that the people who ate it there had probably already been exposed to peanut butter and liked it. It might not have been something out. It was part of like their everyday thing. They weren't standing in their pantry eating it off of a spoon. But they had probably had it before. And this was like a real treat for them to to experience it. It wasn't like they viewed in 1904 from what I can tell.

Right. Well, regardless of who introduced it initially by 1907,

thanks to companies like Heinz and Beachnut. They were selling 34 million pounds of peanut butter

up from just 2 million and 1899. So over an eight-year period, that's a pretty big increase. And the soldiers come into play again. It wasn't just the Civil War and World Wars 1 and 2. And I've had peanut butter k-rashions before. Really? Uh-huh. It's my dad used to get that stuff a lot when I was a kid for camping and stuff. The Army Navy store. So it became a big part of your Army rations and the Armed Forces because a lot of protein was a good sustenance.

He could make a PB&J and that was pretty comforting. If you were on the front lines or in a trench in World War 1. Yeah, it's supposed to. They popularized the PB&J the troops did. That's right. And thank them for that. Oh, I will. I'll salute the troops for that one. But it was pretty regional at the time in the early of 20th century. It didn't travel that great.

“They finally let, you know, I mentioned Hydrogenized earlier. It was this Hydrogenation. Is that right?”

That really led to the big three coming about with the industrialization of peanut butter production and three gentlemen named Peter Pan, Skippy, and Jeff, which I was curious about Jeff where that came from. And all I found was that they said it's easy to spell, easy to say,

and easy to remember. It's true. All three of us checked and had no meaning beyond that, basically.

Really, I would have guessed ahead something to do with, you know, like doing it in a jiff or jiffier or something, huh? I mean, you got to be in the room, I guess, to know where the seed came from. But they just said it was simple and super easy. And that was kind of the end of that story. Good night. So what it more. You know, I'm with the I do too. I'm kind of mad right now, but we got, we got a press on with Hydrogenation, right? Because there's this guy named John

Krampner, and he wrote a book called the Creamy and Crunchy, all about peanut butter. And he, he basically points there as saying like that, that's, that was the turning point for peanut butter.

Maybe even tied for first with its invention was the introduction of Hydrogenation, which takes

oils that are liquid at room temperature. And as Hydrogen and a catalyst, usually like powdered nickel, and those, those bonds become infused or saturated with Hydrogen. And so they stick together a lot more easily. So those liquid oils have a more stable solid state at room temperature. So you go from like peanut butter with oil on top to peanut butter that doesn't have oil on top, but the oils mixed into the mixture and it stays that way, even on the store shelf,

which people love because I mean, you know, for meeting art as a peanut butter, it's kind of a pain to stir it up. Little dark. I mean, that, that initial stir is a little dodgy because it's so close to the lid. Yeah. But you just have to have the right spoon take your time to be in a rush. And, you know, shelf life stability is super important with peanut butter because only monsters put their peanut butter in the refrigerator. Who does that? Who point them out to me? Monsters.

“Who? Like, you've met somebody who's done that before?”

I think it was in a judge on how it'd been listener mail at one point. Oh, man. I don't think it was a major case, but I think it was one of their, one of their listener mail ones. Okay. But totally, totally think it should be on the shelf. That's where it belongs. Right. Although I will say, if you mix a little PB and J with a natural kind and you put it in the fridge, because you've had your two bites and you made too much, the next day, it is interesting. It's more like a

a recess cup consistency. It's kind of hard. And it makes for a nice little snack, but it's certainly not anything that you can spread on bread. Right. Well, that's the other thing, too, is if the oils are mixed

which moms love, right? Sure. And then the other thing it does, too, is with all of those hydrogen atoms linked on to the fat chains, the lipids, there's not all these unused or open bonds that an oxygen atom can come along and bond to and oxidize the peanut butter, which creates peroxide, which gives it a rancid taste. So hydrogenation not only made peanut butter less liquidy, more creamy, it also made it last longer, like what is sitting on the shelf before it was

sold and used. It wouldn't turn rancid nearly as fast. So it was a big deal. The problem is

is that it took peanut butter, which is actually kind of healthy with a mono unsaturated fat that liquid oil and turned it into saturated or partially saturated fat, which is really tough on

“the old ticker. Yeah, that's why that's stay away from that stuff. I mean, it's so good. But yeah,”

I made this switch many years ago. Good for you, Jack. Yeah, the hydrogenated outsold natural for the first time in 42 and a count for about 80% of the current market. Peter Pan believe it or not, I don't think I've ever had Peter Pan. It's not bad. Unless it was just at a friend's house or something, I don't think we ever had it in our house. Peter Pan makes a natural one too and I'm making air quotes like GIF does and it's I think they

all do now. It might even be better than GIF's natural version. I think Emily likes the smuckers in natural, but I also got some, I can't remember the brand. It's one of the, one of the other natural brands. They're all pretty good, I think. Okay. So 1928 was when Peter Pan rolled out and was the

first, which I didn't know was the first major brand. It was the biggest seller at the time.

It used that partial hydrogenation process that was patented by a guy named Joseph Rosefield from Kentucky. And then that's where GIF or Ratsura Skippy came from. Peter Pan's parent company said, "I want to cut your licensing fee." He said, "I'm done with you and I'm going to go out and I'm going to make Skippy on my own." Yeah. And by the end of his career, he had 10 patents. Not just for peanut butter, but relating to food and he was just kind of like Chevy Chase in vacation

movie. So he was a food scientist. Yeah. What was it? The thing that he learned to code a flake with that he used on the sled? I don't know. Some sort of... I'm not a nutritional, I can't remember. I'll figure it out. No need to email everyone. No need to email. No, I want to hear. I want

“every email for about this. I think it was called a non-nutritional coding. It's what he called it.”

But yes, he was very much like that, but he was also way, way, way better than anything, Chevy Chase could ever be. Because he was a really great boss, he paid his workers really well, and in creating the Skippy brand, he broke off from this kind of this corporate overload that he worked for, was keeping him under his thumb, and then trying to short-change him. And said, "You know what? By creating Skippy, I'm going to not only challenge you Peter Pan,

I'm going to become the best selling peanut butter. There is from like 1950 to 1980." Like Skippy was hit. And I just missed the Skippy train. So I'm wondering, like, if I had been born in 1970, if I would have been raised on Skippy, but I came along at the Giff-Hare, really. You know, he said, "In your face," and they said, "I love peanut butter in my face."

And he went, "Oh, I gotta think of a new comeback." You know, Chuck one thing that's always bothered

“me about Peter Pan, is do you remember that jingle or it's like eat some peanut butter any time”

you can? It's like, "Oh, that's nice." And then they follow it up with, but only if it's Peter Pan. Like it's got kind of this, like, if I can't have you no one can psychotic mentality to it. Yeah, and I never heard that song. So I never really thought about that. You didn't watch the television in the 1990s? I did. I don't remember that one though. But I mean, I was in the '90s. I was in college,

so I probably wasn't. I don't think we had cable. I didn't watch much TV in college. Got you. So Skippy is doing great. Peter Pan is just like, I guess I'll just have to be second banana. And Skippy and Jiff said, "How do you like being third banana?" Because that's where you're headed. That same year in 1955, this is when Rosefield sold Skippy to best foods,

Proctor and Gamble bought big top peanut from William T. Young, also of Kentucky. Yeah. And then they became Jiff, and they held that brand until 2001, 2002.

That's when they sold the smuckers.

“Okay, but Jiff is still the number one brand today, right?”

As far as I know. Okay, yeah, that's my understanding too. I thought you were saying like, it was the number one brand until then. But yeah, from I think 1980 to today, it's number one. Yeah, and they got a lot of, I think they all do, but Jiff alone has 15 different kinds of peanut butter, which is kind of nuts. If you look at their list, they've got all kinds of different crazy peanut butteres out there now. Well, nuts is just one variety.

Well, they all have peanuts in them. Yeah. Well, they have a good almond butter, too. Yeah, I can not get down with some almond butter. You know what, buddy? I'm going to buy you some. When we see each other again, I'm going to be brandishing a jar of Jiff almond butter for you. You know, it's not good. What? Is, you know, you can't take peanut butter sandwiches into classrooms anymore, or at least at, you know, at my kid's preschool. And, um, of course, you can't take anything

in there anymore because it's closed. But you have to make, um, you have to make it with, uh, what are the cheese? I used to chew these things all the time. What are baseball players chew? Sunflower seeds. Uh, chickpeas. Sunflower butter. That's good, too. I've had that. It's not bad. Oh, I do not care for it. So you don't like it, huh? I think it's all right. I guess, um,

wow, I really like, basically any kind of butter, just including this butter butter.

Well, yeah, butter is great, but I just cannot get down with the sunflower. Oh, is it sunflower? Yeah, sunflower. Yeah. No, it totally is. And it's definitely, there's a taste of sunflower, to it. Like, you could have no idea what you're eating and somebody gives it to you. And you would be like, that's sunflower butter, isn't it? I love sunflower seeds, though. That was a big thing in college for a little while. We would sit around and, you know, just put a mouthful of sunflower seeds

“on our mouth. Oh, yeah, I remember the sunflower trend quite well. Remember that and you would crack.”

Yeah, you would crack them open with your teeth. Yeah. And you would spit out this, the shell, and then swallow the seed, chew on the seed and swallow it. So I would eat the whole thing. You wouldn't know. You didn't eat the shell. Yeah, this is, I would eat the whole thing and that would smoke all cigar and inhale it. You were a very bad squirrel. And then you would drown your lawn and water. And you would sit back and say, I'm doing life just right. Yeah,

I got it all figured out. Would you really eat the shells? Still do to this day. Really. Yeah, and it's kind of dangerous, because everyone's so wild. There's like one part to it that's just a spear. And you can go right into your gums if you're not careful. So I'm pretty good at it. But everyone's well, I'll be like, I'm, I'm thinking bleeding. Well, here's how I eat peanuts when I go to the ballgame. I stick the whole peanut in my mouth.

Uh-huh, like a squirrel. Okay. And I kind of suck on it for a second and get that salty goodness.

And then I crack it open with my teeth and I pull it out of my mouth and then dump the peanuts in

“and throw away the shells. And then between every bite, you have to coat your lips with lip balm”

because it's so dried and cracked. That is salty. Maybe. It is pretty salty. But the only time eight peanuts in the shell like that is at a baseball game. So now I do something similar, but it's with peanut M&Ms. I will like crack the peanut M&M in half and expose the peanut in your teeth. Yes. And then eat that, the the, um, freed chocolate shell side. And then, uh, eat the other chocolate shell side from around the peanut and then I eat the peanut by itself.

Are you kidding or are you serious? I'm dead serious. I can't remember the last time I ate a peanut

M&M without doing that with every single one. All right, here's what I'll do sometimes with peanut

M&Ms. Okay. We should just have a side gig where we just talk about our stupid quirks. We do. It's part of the podcast. Uh, I put it and sometimes I'll just mow on them like there's no tomorrow, but sometimes I will, and this helps me eat fewer of them because I will pop one in or two in my mouth. And I'll just let them sit there and marinate in my saliva. Oh yeah, yeah. And swirl them around and then that candy coating kind of melts away a little bit and makes it like a

really soft little crunch. Yep. I know, I know what you mean. You know that move. Yep. It's really good. I do that too, but usually I'm a little less patient than that. It's every once in a while. Maybe when I'm like, you know, I have a whole Tupperware bowl full of peanut M&Ms. I might go crazy like that. All right. So let's, should we take a break or should we wait a second? Yeah. Let's do that. Let's take a break.

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All right, so where we left off was GIF was killing it. You and I have very weird eating habits. Yeah. And GIF starts killing it. They start putting sugar and molasses in there. Everyone else

followed suit. And finally in the 1960s, the FDA stood up and said, hold on a minute, guys.

This stuff you're calling peanut butter is junk food now. There's one leading brand. I'm not

“going to name names. I think it was GIF. It was only 75% actual peanuts. He's like, so you got to”

start putting 95% peanuts in the whole thing. The peanut butter lobby said, whoa whoa whoa whoa. How about 87%. And they said, we're the FDA. We meet people in the middle. Let's settle on 90% peanuts and peanut butter. And since 1971, that's been the standard. Yeah, I think like this one on for a dozen years. There's a really interesting article on today. I found out called the momentous peanut butter hearings. It's definitely worth reading. But it just was not. How literally,

not how long this went on for. And then finally, it's just kind of heartening that the FDA was like,

no, 90%. That's as low as we're going. Make sure that your peanut butter has 90% peanuts good day to you, sir. And that was that, finally. And it became enforced in 1972. And still today, there is a federal legal definition for what constitutes peanut butter. And one of the first things is it has to have 90% peanuts in it. That's right, because that is still the standard. If it is smooth, it has to be very fine with an even texture and no hint of grainy peanuts at all.

If it's a medium, you can have a little grain to it. But nothing larger than one 16th of an inch

but it's definitely crunchy in the house. Yeah, that's like a type of Campbell soup.

So crunchy can be larger than one 16th. And I guess, I mean, they're all about the same size. It'd be curious to see if there any kind of half size peanuts if it gets to that chunky. Oh, yeah. Like larger than a 16th of an inch. Yeah, like a half of a peanut. People would be like, "It's too chunky. I can't take it." Maybe, I mean, that's like candy bar level. It is. It is. So Chuck, what you've just said is the federal government's definition

of the different varieties of peanut butter as far as they're concerned. And I don't know if you said it or not, but that guy Joseph Rose feels who was the founder of Skippy. He actually created chunky, sorry, crunchy peanut butter. We both said crunchy, and now we're both saying chunky. I know, it's kind of stuck in my head, but he's the guy, if you like chunky peanut butter,

first of all, shame on you. But secondly, thank Joseph Rose feel for that because he came up with it.

I think in the '50s. Yeah, like I said, I like it all. There is not a kind of peanut butter that I won't eat. I think it's all really good. So then I think also the the this kind of demonstrates just how seriously Americans take peanut butter. The USDA goes on to say there are other qualities that make a peanut butter either grade A, grade B, or sub-standered peanut butter, and it's my favorite. It's things like color. The color has to match certain color samples

that you can only obtain from a company called agtron ink of sparks Nevada. This is in the

“1972 law that you have to write to agtron and say, can you please send me the peanut butter”

colored standards? Because I need to make sure that my peanut butter matches the USDA's standards for color. They sent it. They're online. Get with it. Why are you writing me a letter? Right. That's a really good point. Do you email or do you write back like I don't know? Can you please send me the website URL? And then they would. But when you get this color standard, you can't just look at it wherever. You have to you have to look at it with a at a light with a color temperature of

about 7,500 Kelvin, plus or minus 250 Kelvin, or something equal to a moderately partly cloudy day. That's that's the government standard for judging the color of peanut butter. I can think of now somebody writing a handwritten letter to someone asking for a URL. Someone with a ballpoint pen spelling out HTTPS colon slash slash. I looked up agtron and they're still around and they are on point man. They've been in business for, I think about a century,

but they are all about like food analysis. If you're a coffee roaster or a barista or something, you can take their online class. I think it's online. It's like a day-long class that like really teaches you all the science behind the coffee you're selling and roasting and grinding. It's a really interesting company. It looks like. But that's if you start making peanut butter,

“you need to write a letter to agtrony and asking for their URL.”

And they will send you a laminated sheet and a manila envelope. Yeah. So if you're talking peanut butter in the United States, the about half of the edible use of peanuts is from peanut butter. Obviously peanut butter is in a ton of, it's one of my favorite parts of candy bars and stuff like that. I'm a sucker for any peanut butter ice cream, peanut butter candy bars. I can't get enough of that combination. I'm totally with you buddy.

Which, by the way, Joseph Rosefield was, the skipy guy was the guy who came up with that peanut butter and chocolate combo before recessed. But the national peanut board estimates that it takes about 540 peanuts to make up one of those 12 ounce jars, which is a lot of peanuts. That kind of surprised me. It was more than I thought. Yes, that they're in shell peanuts until you reach 540 individual peanuts. And you will have a sudden appreciation for your peanut butter.

You know what I mean? For sure. But of course, machines do that. But yeah. Well, if it's artisan, no. Somebody wearing like a calico so wrong is doing it with by hand.

“In Vermont. I don't think Vermont people are like. Yeah. I think that's my conception.”

Proof me wrong Vermont. So in 2009, we're talking about health aspects. There's a couple of parts to the health of it of whether or not it's just good for you, which we'll get to. But also there've been a couple of peanut butter incidents throughout the years. In recent

years, it has scared people off from peanut butter a little bit. Yeah. In 2009 was the second one.

and Blakely Georgia that was pretty gross and not maintained well. I remember that don't you.

I remember both of them. The other one was in 2007. And that was Samanella in Peter Pan and great value both owned by Khan Agra and that got about 600 and changed sick. But nobody died. Luckily. But I remember both of those. It was a big deal because peanut butter is so ubiquitous. So there's also I didn't realize this until I started researching. There's something called

“"affle the toxins." Have you heard of them? I think I did back when all the stuff happened or”

maybe not. So there's a mold called Aspergillus that grows on peanuts because peanuts are

grown underground. And the Aspergillus can produce a toxin called "affle the toxins." And apparently humans

are pretty much immune to its initial effects or its short-term effects. But we have no idea what happens if you eat "affle the toxins" over the course of a lifetime. What happens? And apparently there's studies of humans that found that it's been linked to certain types of cancer, potentially birth defects, cognitive disabilities, all sorts of horrible stuff. And peanut butter producers say, "Well, we get at least 89% of the "affle the toxins" out just by processing peanuts." You say,

"Well, what about the other 11%?" They're like, "Have some Peter Pan and forget your troubles."

“That's right. So there is a real risk of something bad happening to you, whether it's a poisoning”

or not. But a lot of people are like, even if it's pure peanut butter, it's still not healthy for you. Yeah, I mean, the major brands that are sugary and hydrogenated certainly are good for you. If you're going to the farmers market and getting those peanuts around right in front of your face, it's not terrible. You know, it's got a lot of nutrition. It's got a lot of antioxidants. It's got, we're talking, this is 100 grams of this stuff. You've got 45% RDA of vitamin E, 67% of vitamin

B3, 16%, 7%, I'm sorry, 73% of manganese and 39% of magnesium. Yeah. So it's got a lot of good stuff in there. It's got a lot of calories, too. That's about 600 calories reading 100 grams worth. But if it's, you know, I mean, that's 100 grams is a lot. No, it is a tremendous amount. The other thing is, too, is if you're eating that artisan peanut butter, that craft peanut butter, the non-hydrogenated, I guess I should say peanut butter, the oils in the fats in it are actually

good for you. The mono-insaturated fat is the kind that's good for your heart. It's that saturated stuff that becomes shelf stable. That's the stuff that can build up as plaque in your arterial walls and cause, you know, heart attacks and strokes and that kind of thing. But the natural peanut butter actually does the opposite. It helps your cholesterol levels. That's right.

It's just great. It's basically just really calorie dense. Like if you're trying to lose weight,

it's a good idea to shy away from peanut butter. But if you're eating natural peanut butter, it's not like a non-nutritious food. It's actually pretty nutritious. It's just calorie dense. Right. And if you're trying to lose weight and you opt for a spoonful of peanut butter and honey, rather than applying to Ben and Jerry's, then you're definitely doing the right thing. For sure, man. For sure. One thing though that has, you know, strikes fear and a lot of people

like you were saying in your daughter's preschool, you can't even bring a peanut butter sandwich in there anymore. Is this the rise of the peanut allergy? Like there's a survey that was conducted

“in the 80s, the 90s and the 2000s. I think the most recent one was in 2008. And they found that”

between 1997 and 2008 in this national survey of 5,300 homes that the self-reported peanut allergies went from 0.4% of respondents to 1.4% of respondents, which it's 1.4% doesn't sound like a lot. But that's a huge increase between like 11 years, I guess. But the thing is, as if you look at other studies, they found that yes, self-reported rates are on the rise, but doctor diagnosed rates have held steady. So there seems to be an increase in perception

that people have peanut allergies that's not necessarily an increase in actual peanut allergies, which is really strange and bizarre to think of if that's correct.

very small child and your baby peanuts into a little bit at a time to ensure or hopefully ensure that they won't be stricken with the worst food allergy of all. It's true. The peanut allergy. And those study in Israel that had guidelines for early infant feeding and they said around 46 months of age, just shove a bunch of peanuts in their mouth and see what happened. Make them chew and then hit them with the lip balm. Yeah, hit them with that lip balm.

So one last thing Chuck, and I couldn't find a place to put it, but it has to be said, there is a phobia called a rack of booed to refobia, a rack of booed to refobia.

“Yeah, I think I nailed it that last time. And it is?”

Is that for me? Is that my cue? Yes. It's hard to tell because you're not kicking me under the table. I'm not like doing that series of blanks. That is the fear peanut butter getting stuck on the roof of your mouth. That is a true thing. Which is shouldn't be a fear because all you got to do is just keep working the tongue and that peanut butter is going to dislodge and go right down your throat. That's

right. Just like John Harvey Kellogg for saw. Get a little whole milk and you're all set. Nice. Man, or some cool whip. Don't forget the cool whip. I've got to try that. I don't know if you should try that. I think I gained 10 pounds in a month. Just after I discovered that, it's not good for you, man. Yeah, I can't wait. Cool whip doesn't last longer in a house. We can't keep it here. It's just like, it's really hard not to just sort of, I'll just have a little spoonful every now and then.

Right, and then there they go. It's like your hair is stuck to your forehead because you put your whole face in the tub. It's so good and it's good frozen too. I don't know if you ever tried that. Yeah, I've tried it both ways, but if you do want to try it, it's about half and half peanut butter cool whip. Persevering full. I'll give it a shot if I may really have to get to the grocery store again. Yeah, right. Okay. Well, I think that's it. Then for peanut butter unless you have anything else.

We've got nothing else. Okay. Well, since we said we have nothing else, it means it's time for those to remain. I'm gonna call this early listener that came back as an adult. I love these. Hey, guys, last year I, well, what I really love is people that never stop listening. All right,

“but we'll take this. Hey, guys, last year I started getting back into stuff you should know”

after a long break from the nine to ten days. What does that mean? And a need for an educational podcast on my long drives to Blacksburg, Virginia from the tidewater area of Virginia? I think they got hit by the apple of toxin. I think he may be, I don't know what he means.

When I first started listening, I was in middle school and I always loved trivia and your podcast

helped me annoy other students with random facts about twin keys and fluoride. Once I went through church camp, it was appreciated. I earned the name random fact kid. You guys helped me encourage my natural instincts in the world that got me through electrical engineering and also helped me earn free beer at trivia nights because of my tendency to remember obscure knowledge. I even made a friend through the podcast listener Lucas. I take it that's just Lucas. He was listening to your podcast

while driving his bus and I recognize the familiar voices. So I just wanted to say thanks, guys,

“and that is from listener Daniel. So maybe that's how they meant. They had the same first name.”

They're like, I never thought I would have a brother but now I do. Daniel and Lucas together.

Are you got anything else now? I got nothing at all. Well, if you want to be like listener Daniel and let us know how long you've been listening, we want to hear from you. You can get and touch this just through a simple email. Simple gesture, the gesture of wrapping it up, the gesture of spanking it on the bottom, the gesture of early feeding it peanuts and sending it all to stuff, podcast at iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iheart radio. For more podcasts,

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