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So here these in more, listen to "Keity Posit Sweaty" on the "I Heart Radio App" Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. "Welcome to Stuff You Should Know" - a production of "I Heart Radio." Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and it's just us. Here today, to explain something that every person in the world should know about,
the Goldstone. "I have an intro, I have an intro hold on." "Oh God." "Chuck." "Yes."
"Have you ever gone to a bank and traded a dollar in for actual gold?"
"No, I've never even seen gold in person that wasn't like, you know,
on a whatever, a ring or something." "Sure." "And that is a huge use for gold." "I've never seen nuggets or bars." "Angots."
"I have an either." "I have never even seen a gold coin," now that I think about it. "I don't think I have either." "But there was a point in time where you could see gold any time you wanted, if you went to your bank and you took a certain amount of dollars or pounds or
francs or pesos because the countries all over the world were on what's known as the gold standard, and just a quick broad stroke explanation, I guess, is that on a gold standard, every single one of your dollars or pesos or francs or Deutschmarks are redeemable for gold,
“which means that you have to have an equal amount of gold in your country in safe”
in vaults to cover every single dollar or peso or a Deutschmark or franc out there. You can't just keep printing money, you can only print out as much money as can covered the amount of gold that you have." "Yeah." "Which is, you know, it's sort of a public safeguard to say, "Hey, your dollar, your paper money,
or your coins, or worth something because it's worth this much of this other thing that we've also agreed is worth the money." "Exactly." "And so, for you, if you're walking around in a country that's on the gold standard, you can go trade your dollars in for gold, your paper currency in for gold, right?"
"It also gives you a lot of stability and understanding that when you wake up in the morning, what you bought for one dollar yesterday, you're going to be able to buy for one dollar today. Prices don't fluctuate very much on the gold standard. And then on more of a macro level, if you're a country and you're importing tons of stuff, that means your currency is going out.
You're using your currency to buy these imports. And when a bunch of your currency is out there, you need it back home.
“So you have to use some of that gold to buy your currency back.”
So the upshot of all of this is the gold standard is very different from the type of currency that we have today. And I feel like we should maybe explain a little more eventually about how they're different." "Yeah, for sure. I mean, we've been back and forth between the gold standard and the other,
which we call Fiat currency, which is a Latin term and that, you know, Fiat currency basically is
what we're working with now because the gold standard is basically dead.
That's where you can, you know, where you have more, you know, monetary polic...
the markets and stuff like that, rather than like now. It's like it's tied to gold, like kind of end of story. There are people that love, and, you know, we're going to talk about sort of the benefits and the arguments for and against. But people that are into the gold standard as an idea, they're kind of out of luck, but they're still around. They're called gold bugs. They've been called that since Edgar Allan Poe's story. That's where it came from about the search for
buried treasure. But, you know, it's still a fight in some circles from people who are like way into the gold standard."
"Yeah, and there's, I mean, they have a lot of good points, but the problem is is that that train
has left the station and it's not coming back." "Not coming back."
“"So, um, why gold, right? There's also, you could pay your, your currency to wheat, right?”
And you could take your dollar bill and go into the bank and they'll give you like a bushel of wheat in return, right? Why gold in particular?" "Well, yeah, I said that, you know, that's something that they all agreed was worth something, and that's kind of the deal. Like, something's only worth something if everyone agrees that it's worth something. But you can't, you know, you've got to pick something that makes sense,
and gold has always made a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. It is, um, it's scarce, but not like
rare, rare, it's rare enough to be precious, but not so rare that, like, you know, it's impossible to find. So you've got to have enough of it, but not too much of the thing. It's also, you can divide it up into small things, you can melt it down, you can make it into stuff, making it into coins, you know, is certainly valuable. It's valuable. It's resistant to being corroded and like
“rusted, it's durable. So all that stuff makes it just sort of a valuable thing to trade.”
"Yeah, and you said it's durable, like, most of the gold that's ever been mined in the history of humanity is still around, because you can change it from one form to another, say, like, from a necklace into a gold coin, but they're still that same amount of gold on earth. And I guess as of 2025, I think the World Gold Council says that 219,890 tons of gold have been mined throughout history. And about two-thirds of those have been mined since 1950 alone."
Right, and most of that is still around, like you said, it's still out there, which kind of proves that gold was a pretty good pick. That end silver, I mean, silver was, we'll talk about the fact that golden silver kind of went back and forth over the years. There's just a lot more silver, so silver has just been worth less. Right, but it's still worthwhile. And in fact, sure, if we're going to start to go back a little
bit in history, the very first, I guess, currency that the United States came up with,
and the history for Great Britain tracks very similarly. But in the U.S., they said, "We're going to use gold and silver for coinage, and they had to set an amount.
“How much silver do you need to buy one unit of gold?"”
Because they're related to one another. You're using both for currency. So they said, "You know what? 15 pieces of silver, grains, I think, is equal to one grain of gold." Yeah, so like a 15 to one ratio, but they realize right away that if they're going to start setting these ratios in these sort of units as being kind of blocked in, it's just going to create a lot of trouble over time, especially when the amount of gold and silver increases in
deep. Well, I guess not so much decrease, but when there's a gold rush or when they find a new vein of silver somewhere, that changes the amount of gold and silver in the world, but they still had locked into that 15 to one ratio. It's not like they kept changing it over and over. So I think kind of right away people were like, "Oh, wait a minute. This is all a little bit artificial in a way." Yeah, and that's something that gold bugs have trouble with, is that, you
know, it doesn't really matter how honest a gold standard keeps the government. It's still all artificial. There's still manipulations that can happen. Yeah, when a bunch of gold comes on the market, gold becomes less valuable. If a bunch of silver comes on the market, relative to gold, silver becomes less valuable. And one of the problems with using a commodity to back your currency is that sometimes the value of the commodity can rise beyond the face value
of the currency. So if you have a $10 gold piece and the price of gold actually puts that one ounce at $20, you're not going to go spend that 10 bucks. You're going to melt that thing down or sell it to somebody for $20. So there's problems here with money that actually means something
In the world.
I guess for the United States, people started doing that. They started melting gold coins or keeping them in hoarding gold coins. And they started trading and using silver as currency. So all of a sudden we were like, wait a minute, we thought we were on a gold or we were heading toward a gold
“standard. And now we're kind of on a de facto silver standard because that's what people are using.”
Yeah. So the government was like, well, let's just make the 16 to one and it brought everything a little bit more in disparity than there was the minor 49er gold rush in California. And then there was also another gold rush in Australia about the same time. So the market price for gold went
down again because the supply increased, which basically made the US government throw their hands
up in the air and say, we give up. We're going to go watch football. Yeah, they're they're kind of football. I guess over across the pond Isaac Newton finished out his long story career as the master of the mint. He did a lot of other stuff obviously before that. But he he worked as the master of the mint at the end of his life until his death. And he was he was all about gold. He was like, he encouraged overvaluing it and said we should really just set gold as the gold standard for
“England and they adopted that and what like 18 19. Yeah. So they I think they were the first country”
on an actual gold standard. And then it kind of spread around Europe from there because they're like, this is actually pretty good pretty good idea because you don't need necessarily a central bank. You don't have to have somebody figuring out what level to pull or whatever the gold actually
kind of naturally flows from one place to another to basically keep this homeostasis this balance
throughout the world among all the countries that are on the gold standard, right? Yeah. So the thing is is humans are humans. You can mess up anything that it is even something that naturally flows from one place to another. We can basically put our foot in it and screw it up. And that was the case usually as we'll see throughout history that usually the case when war comes along. And then happened in the United States with the Civil War. And we've talked many times about this
about how before the Civil War there was like 8,000 different types of currency in use in the United States. Like your general store in town might have its own currency that you could use. And as the Civil War came along, that all changed very quickly. Yeah, that was I remember we that that feels like very many years ago. Yeah. We were talking about that in a few episodes. It was kind of the hot topic for us for a while. We were talking about of those different currencies.
Like one town might have a currency and then two miles down the road. The next town might have their own currency, which you know within that town as long as everyone agrees what something is worth. It's working out okay, but that's a mess if you're trying to be a country which we despite the Civil War we were trying to be a country. Right. And so the Civil War starts and the federal government was like hey, like you know Josh Clark will say
“one day, wars are expensive. And so they issued war bonds. I think about five hundred billion”
dollars in war bonds. War bonds are what you buy to basically, you know, or you sell is a government
and people buy to kind of finance the world and saying hey, a loan you money to go fight this war, because that bond is ensured. I know for a fact that eventually I'm going to get repaid with interest for lending you that money to fight this war. Right. So it's like it's super safe on the investor side, but it's just a long-term payout. Yeah. The thing is is when they issued those as far as I know they weren't backed with gold and then they weren't even further. They just
started issuing straight-up paper currency that had it wasn't pegged to gold or silver backed up by any of it. It was the first fiat currency in the United States and fiat like you said it's just basically the government saying this has value because we say it has value. You can resist to buy stuff you can use this to pay your taxes. It is currency even though it's not backed by anything. And the reason they did this because it was so expensive they literally had to print money. Say it was
it had worth. And it's not using it to pay their debts to basically fight this war. And so the market, the United States, well the United States just became flooded with all this paper currency. So the paper currency plus all the gold back currency just became less and less valuable. And I think the inflation that came about after the civil war because inflation happens when the value of your currency is weak because there's too much of it out there. It was at like 25%
During the civil war.
in June it was at 9%. And that was pretty uncomfortable. I can't imagine 25%. No, we were in a pretty bad way. And this was also a time when the country started dabbling in national debt and saying like, hey, like as a country we can go into deep debt. Yeah. And like let's see if any of you really cares. It went, this is these are pretty staggering numbers. The national debt in the 1860 was 65
million, six years later it was $2.76 billion. And this is when gold standard or what are the
“gold gold bugs started saying, hey, I think you've just proved our point. Like you printed all”
this money, this fiat currency. And we're in real troubled now. Yeah. And so Lincoln says, hold on, hold on. And he rolls up his sleeves a little bit and gets to work. Spits in his hand, rubs together, picks up an axe for no reason just to kind of look tough. Yeah, sure. There works. And he says, we're going to take all of those, the, all of the bills out there, all the dollars on the market and just take them back and start destroying them. Yeah. And by doing that,
we're going to actually lower the supply of dollars, which increases their value. Right? And so problem solved, that's going to fight inflation because the dollar's stronger again because there's less dollars on there. And on just a basic economic basis of supply and demand, it makes sense. But what the government didn't realize all the way back in the 1860s is that it takes a little
“more finesse than that to not just screw up the economy like a pendulum from one problem to the”
opposite problem. Yeah. Like can you imagine being a citizen in the United States back then in those early days when they're just trying to figure this stuff out. And you know, I've been a lot of people didn't have a real understanding of this. But if you did, could you imagine just seeing your country be like, hey, let's print a bunch of paper and say it's really valuable. And then when they got in trouble, be like, hey, let's burn all that stuff that we printed and said was valuable.
Yeah. Like you, they would just come up behind like congressmen would come up behind people counting their money and just yank it out of their hand and run off and you couldn't do anything about it. Yeah, paper football. So that was a real hot item at the time. So okay, a bunch of bills, a bunch of money just gets taken back, burned, destroyed, taken off of the market. It's just
not there anymore. And the value of the dollar strengthens, the problem is because the dollar is
more is worth more than it was before and seems like it's just going to keep going up in value. People are like, well, I'm going to hang on to my dollar because it's going to increase in value. So I'll be able to buy more later. The problem is in the current term, that means that people are out buying stuff and if making say free industrial televisions, which were just boxes that, you know, like somebody with a puppet could get in and make a little show, but they have a TV's back then.
If you're making those and people are not spending money on the pre-industrial televisions, your profits are going to start to go down. You have less reason to produce more and more of those, which means you need less workers, which means you start laying people off, which means those workers have less wages to spend money on. And the whole thing becomes the self-feeding cycle that just gets worse and worse and worse. And we call them recessions and when they're really
bad, we call them depressions. And that happened from the government soaking up all of those bills after the Civil War. And it caused what's called the long depression from 1873 to 1879. Yeah. And so I'm saying it almost went to like 1900, like 1897 before we were fully out of that.
“Yeah. It was a real, like I think it was a real wake-up call early on to the United States of”
like, hey, you can't, there's got to be a better way than just printing a bunch of money when you think you need it, like kind of artificially manipulating the value of the dollar like that,
it's only going to lead to trouble. So, boy, that's a great first act, I think.
I think so too. Back in form after vacation. Yeah. Yeah. I feel pretty good. Okay. You feeling good? Yeah. And you're doing great. You're looking sharp, man. I appreciate it. So let's take a break. And we'll come back and we'll talk about the golden age. We love our golden ages. The golden age of the gold standard, right after this. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own roles.
We didn't worry about what went on outside.
Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together,
but not everyone was happy about it.
“And you saw the KKK? Yeah. They were just up in that uniform.”
The KKK set out to Ray Charlie, taking away from here. Charlie was an example, a poem. They had a crush in it. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and Visit Murdoch Beach comes Charlie's place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now, listen to Charlie's place on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law,
one mysterious black club owner had his own roles. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together, but not everyone was happy about it. Can you saw the KKK? Yeah. They were just up in that uniform. The KKK set out to
“Ray Charlie, taking away from here. Charlie was an example, a poem. They had a crush in it.”
From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and Visit Murdoch Beach comes Charlie's place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now, listen to Charlie's place on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey everyone, it's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the legally-brown app podcast. Each week, we're bringing you true crime through illegal lens.
Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, or you still need to wrap your head around the Diddy verdict, we're breaking it all down, step by step. And we're not just lawyers, we're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes. Listen to legally-brown ad on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
So the United States just basically just stepping in it and then stepping out of it and
stepping in another pile of it in the 1870s. This was- We're not talking about Gold either, right? No. No. No, I couldn't come up with something that wasn't just absolutely gross. So, yeah, I'll keep moving on. But this was the time when the world was globalizing for kind of the first time. And so other countries are taking note of this and they're like, yeah, this gold standard might be a good
thing. And like you said, it kicked off a golden age from 1871 to basically through about two World War I. It was a golden age for gold. There's no other way to put it. I didn't want to say that, but there's no other way to put it. Yeah, it was like 40-something years where everyone was sort of agreeing that the gold standard was the place to be- because it was debate like after the mess, you know, post-syllable war of like
what we're even allowed to do as a country and like in the government even print money like that. Yeah, the Supreme Court came along in 1871 and they said, yes, they can print money. Maybe they need to, you know, we need to rethink our process. But the government printing money is okay. Yeah, it's kind of legal. Yeah, yeah. So that was settled, but that still didn't mean like that. The government should do that.
“There was still this question. Should we keep going this way as supported by the Greenback party?”
Who were like, yes, this actually makes a lot of sense. Or there are other groups like the silver movement, the gold bugs were out there who were like, no, we need a commodity back a currency, right? Yeah. Apparently the Wizard of Oz, and I'm sure we've mentioned this before, but it was supposed to be an allegory for this debate over whether to go with the Greenbacks in the city, go with the gold standard, the yellow brick road or to go with
the Ruby standard, which were the slippers, right, or the war wheat, like you suggested that would be the scarecrow. Exactly. Yeah. So all of those scarecrow, Ruby's gold, the Greenbacks, all of those
were part of this national debate. And finally, it was settled in 1900 when William McKinley was
made president and he said, it's gold. We're just going with gold. And even more than that,
You cannot print a dollar beyond the amount of gold we have to back it up.
that whole declaration. He was a pro gold candidate, a pro gold standard. And like you said in
“1921, he was like, we got to have some real teeth behind this. I can't just say it is president”
and make it so. So they passed the gold standard act of 1900. And that had some language in there that said exactly that is, hey, that circulation. It's got to be tied to gold. We can't print one dollar more than we have in equal amounts of gold. And that was it. You know, that was the classic gold standard period. It meant that nations were trading with one another on equal ground. And it was dependent on sending like physical gold to one another. If you were producing more and exporting
more, then you had a lot of gold, you know, stockpiled in your country. If you had a trade deficit,
you had a lot less gold. And it was everyone kind of knew what that meant. And it worked for
long time. It did work. I mean, there were dozens of nations all on the gold standard at the same time. So you knew how much you were going to get paid for your for your shipment of pre-industrial televisions overseas, right? Because there were bonkers for them in Portugal. But the reason why you knew is because there was such stability among your your currency and international currency picked to the to gold. When you ship that shipment out by the time it arrived, it was the same
price. With fiat currency, the price of stuff can fluctuate so much over a day or a week that when you sent a shipment out, if you hadn't already settled the contract, which you probably did. But by the time it arrived, you might be making way less than you were going to when you shipped it out. That's not really what happened during the the classic golden age of the gold standard. It was all much more stable than that. That's right. But like you said, we pegged the end of that
to basically World War One because as you mentioned earlier, wars are really expensive. They're
going to spike your national debt if you get involved in one. And in Europe and World War One, they were like this wars really, really expensive. And our supply of gold is being constrained. So we have to we we have to leave it. So the international gold standard dissolved basically, mostly worldwide except for the US and UK, we stayed on that gold standard. And because of that, for for a while, the British pound in the US dollar were basically the global reserve currencies
because, you know, they had gold to back them. So they were they were the gold standard. The dollar in the pound. Yeah, because it's not I mean, it's not figurative when you're saying like
“you had to use your gold to buy back your currency if you were in a trade deficit, right?”
You actually had to ship gold to the country you were buying your dollars or your pounds back from. Yeah. So with the the US and the UK have currencies pegged to gold and then being the global reserve currency, you could just ship currency overseas. Yeah, just so much easier than shipping gold, right? So that was a huge lighter. It is super light. So the US and England both ended up with like the vast majority of the world's gold because, you know, you could take a dollar,
you could take a pound to the US of the UK and say give me some gold for this and those notes, those paper dollars were good as gold essentially, which is I'm pretty sure where that came from. Yeah, I mean, at this funny, the gold standard and good as gold, like a lot of these terms, like literally come from these weird monetary policies. Yeah. Yeah, William McKinley. Yeah.
Gold gold back. So things were going along okay after that. And then the 1929 stock market crash came and banks started failing all over the world and everyone, you know, those, you know, when stuff like this happens, there seems like it used to happen more, but there can be a real panic and people start converting their dollars and their pounds to gold because they were like, we know gold is worth something. I don't want to have like this, this paper currency on hand that's
like clearly losing value very quickly. Right. If I wait a day, I might get less gold than I
“will if I cash my bank account in today. And remember earlier, I said like how this is all,”
it all kind of self-regulates at all moves naturally from one place to another, but still humans can screw things up just because we're human. This is how we screwed it up. They were banking mechanics after banking panics where people just made runs on banks and said, give me all my money in the bank will be like, we don't have it. They would shout out all their money and end up closing and there were like 10,000 bank closures in the early 1930s and the United States
Alone between 1930 and 1932 because people would run in and like just take al...
And so banks were failing. This was before the FDIC. So if you had a bunch of money and the bank like closed forever before you could cash it in, you were broke. Like that money was worthless. Right. And that caused even more people to make runs on banks which created this huge terrible ripple effect. And so the UK and the US were both faced with this challenge. Like what
you do? Do you stay on the gold standard or do you go off the gold standard? And the UK was up first.
Yeah. They abandoned the gold standard in 1931. Apparently there's a story that their central banker, a guy named Montague Norman at the time, suffered a nervous breakdown because he was, you know, it was kind of up to him to make that final call. And can you imagine the pressure
“to be in charge of like a kind of a worldwide economy almost. And how important these decisions are?”
So how about your question? No. No, I cannot imagine that kind of pressure. You can't either. So the pounds value of course immediately drops even further than it already was. So people that were had lost faith in the paper money we're saying like see there. Like good thing we traded in our our pounds for gold. And America and of course everywhere around the world is seeing this happen. So everyone else is losing confidence. And this is when, you know, further runs on banks happen.
And we had a president, a lame duck name Herbert Hoover who was leaving office in 1933 and told incoming FDR. He was like, hey, you know, we're in real trouble here. The reason we have gold is because we can't trust governments. And FDR was like, you know what, I think I've got this. So he went in office and he said, I'm going to, I'm going to fix this crisis for good.
One of the first things he did was I think the day after he was inaugurated, he
declared a four day banking holiday. So all the banks for four days. So that's worth it. There couldn't be any runs on banks. And I was watching this, there's a student who's a YouTuber named the casual historian and he builds himself as a conservatarian, which I think to be in a combination of a conservative and a vegetarian. Right. Yeah. But he was explaining that this actually didn't do much in real terms like the banks that were about to fail before the banking holiday still
failed afterward. Yeah. But as far as the public was concerned, it was a huge signal for essentially the first time that the government was going to step in because one thing that you cannot argue against with the gold standard is because you're constrained, you cannot print more money than you have gold to back it. There is nothing you can do in an economic crisis except sit there and watch it happen. You can't do anything. There's no levers for you to pull the pull the country
“out of it. The only way that you can pull your country out of a recession or a depression”
is by printing more money and actually devaluing the money that people are hoarding. So it's you're basically saying, you got all this money that you're stashed away because it's so valuable. Well, guess what? It's not so valuable anymore. So you might as well get out there and spend it. Yeah, for sure. And you know, we were in big trouble, obviously, in the 1930s, you know, you mentioned earlier sort of that cycle that happens when companies are producing less and fewer
customers and not hiring people or firing people. And in 1933, the unemployment in the United States was 25 percent. That's so crazy. I know. It's staggering. And I think worldwide, almost one and three people were out of work in 1932. So it wasn't just the United States. Like, that
many people being out at work at once. And that's the thing that I always, you know, thankfully,
it hasn't happened yet. But with the AI conversations and people, I've had conversations with people and in my sphere. Are you sure they were people and not boss? They think it's such a great thing. And I was like, you know, I'm not even arguing the merits of art or not and things like that. But I said, I just worry about what would happen if like 20 percent of the workforce was laid off
“in the span of like a year or so because of AI. It's like, that's what I worry about. And we haven't”
seen that yet. Thankfully, but I guess we'll see. Yeah, you mean I were talking about the same thing. And she brought up a really great question, which is like one of the things that a lot of the AI proponents say is like, eventually we're going to create this utopia where like no one has to work and everybody's ready. And her question is like, if that's your goal, why don't we take some of that wealth and just start now before we have to wait for AI to do that? We can do it now.
I thought this is rather clever. I stood up and clapped and went, right? She's like, that's weird. Yeah, we're in our living room. See you left the room.
All right.
emergency banking act at the time, which basically, like you said, allowed them to in an emergency
issue, just start printing money basically. This is not back to the gold standard. And but we had that gold standard because the gold standard act of 1900. So they had to create this banking act, I guess, to work around that, right? Yeah, they basically said, okay, this is just emergency measures and we're just printing this money to give to banks to keep them from going under. So the government is signaling all over the place. We're stepping in. We're going to make sure
“that this, that like, we're going to do something about this for the first time. I think that was”
my point before I got off on the tangent for a little while a minute ago. But the government is signaling all over the place that they're going to back up banks. So you don't have to run and get all of your money out. Right. Just keep making this whole thing worse. So that was like a first step.
But the problem is, there was still plenty of gold out there that people were hoarding. They're like,
yeah, that's great. Thanks a lot. But I'm not taking this gold back to the bank right now because I don't have any confidence in the banking system. So the government figured out how to deal with this. They said, well, you know what, we will put you in jail for 10 years and find you the modern equivalent of $250,000. If you don't give us your gold, we'll give you the the equal amount of of paper dollars back. But you can't legally own gold anymore. Yeah. And that was it. That was,
“I mean, I think it was about a month after they sort of restored that public confidence with the”
emergency banking act. Like FDR was moving very quickly and said, all right, we're we're suspending the gold standard officially. And then the next year, what's that gold reserve act of 1934 that you were talking about where they were like, yeah, you can't, I mean, you can keep your your rings. And if you got like collectible coins and stuff, we're not coming after those. Yeah. But you can't have bars of gold in a safe in your house anymore. Yeah. In Jimmy, the Greek was like, woo.
So, yeah, so now you had to have you had to use paper currency. So this was this was the shift in the United States. And this had already happened in other countries like you said, especially in Europe after World War I. And the gold standard was was debt. And one of the things that
“demonstrated the death of the gold standard was economists generally today say that the US being”
able to print money. And basically kickstart inflation to pull us out of the deflationary spiral aka the depression. That's basically 90% of the reason that the US got out of the great depression. It was leaving the gold standard being able to print money because if you can just print money and take money off the market and put more money on the market when you need it, you can adjust the economy enough to get it out of crises one way or the other. And that that's
that's actually the better way of doing it. And so the gold standard never came back again.
That's right. And so that could be the end of our show. But that would be weird because we haven't had our second ad break yet. So we're going to do that and we're going to come back and just say see you later and read a listener mail. Right. Because the gold standard's gone forever. Gone forever. All right. We'll be right back. Segregation in the day. Integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black
club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's place black and white people danced together but not everyone was happy about it. And you saw the KKK? Yeah, they were just up in that uniform. The KKK set out to Ray Charlie taken away from here. Charlie was an example, a poem. They had a crush in. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and visit Murdoch Beach comes Charlie's
place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, everyone. It's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the legally brew net podcast. Each week, we're bringing you true crime through illegal lens. Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie
Or you still need to wrap your head around the Diddy verdict, we're breaking ...
And we're not just lawyers, we're also has been in life. It makes for some pretty entertaining
“episodes. Listen to legally burnette on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your”
podcast. Segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping in another world. Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together, but not everyone was happy about it. Can you saw the KKK? Yeah, they were just up in that uniform. The KKK set out to Ray Charlie, taking away from here. Charlie was an example, a poem. They had to crush it.
From Atlas Obscura, Roko Ko punch, and visit Murdoch Beach, comes Charlie's place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
“Okay, we're back here for Act 3, which means it's time for listener mail, because the gold standard”
is dead. This is where the golden gun goes off. That's right, because no, the gold standard is not dead. It actually had another sort of brief, not even stand, like it kind of had a, maybe not a golden age, but maybe a heyday when the Bretton Woods Agreement came around, which was a U and a United Nations Agreement that came around in 1944 in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, that had a whole brand new system that was really kind of like that original gold standard with 44 countries signed on
along with the U.S. That said, all right, the U.S. dollar now is pegged the gold at $35 an ounce, and everybody else that's signing on is time their currency to our dollar. Right, so there's a fixed rate, like there's 15 pesos for $1 and $1 equals this much gold. So it's essentially the the world going back on a gold standard, they just figured out a good way around it to make it much easier, right? Yeah. And again, just like the first time, if everybody's playing by the rules,
then this keeps you from munking with interest rates to make your exports more attractive. It
prevents trade wars. It does all sorts of calm, peaceful stuff. But the problem is, there's just,
and this is the same problem today. There just wasn't enough gold in the world to cover the increasing expense of modern life. Yeah, for sure. And they had put things in place because, you know, they were a little smarter this time around. They're like, all right, we'll create the international monetary fund. We'll create the world bank. So that means that there's their official worldwide bodies kind of coordinating this monetary policy between all the countries to make sure that no one's
doing hinky stuff. And it took a long time. This wasn't like, you know, they reach this agreement
“in 1944 and by 1945, it was all set and stone. I think it didn't actually take effect. It'll”
14 years later in 1958. By the 1960s, like shortly thereafter, the US was spending like a like a drunk 10-year-old. Military spending was in foreign aid. We're all just like ramping up, spending on imports, foreign investment. There are a lot of dollars from the United States in worldwide circulation. Yeah. And even though we held a lot of the world's gold reserves, like 75 percent at the time, like you said, we still didn't have enough gold to cover all that kind of money.
No. And this is what keeps governments on us. There is a possibility of a worst case scenario where all of the people holding those dollars can all come back at once and say, hey, we want this, we want our gold, we're turning in our currency, give us our gold. And, you know, it's bad enough when you're talking about citizens making runs on banks. If you're talking about entire foreign governments, bringing all of their cash reserves to you and saying, we want gold, you got a
really big problem. And finally, in 1971, Nixon admitted like, we don't have enough gold to cover the
currency out there. Sorry, guys, you can't turn that in for gold anymore. Sorry. And just kind of backed out of the room. Yeah, he backed out of the room. And it was, it was a big deal because this isn't the kind of thing that we could, we had pegged our dollar to like worldwide value. So
We couldn't just say that by ourselves.
They basically kind of came along for the ride and said, are I, everybody should kind of go
to this fiat currency system? And like that was the true real end of the gold standard. And like there's just that ship is so far out of the harbor now. There's no way they could go back to it. Now, and eventually kind of became a fringe right wing position. For some reason, they just kind of adopted it, but that doesn't mean all of the right wing agrees with it. In fact, Milton Friedman, who's the right wing conservative economist hero, he was even like, that's a terrible idea to
“go back on it. He wrote a paper, and I think 1990, your co-wrote one, that basically demonstrated”
just how bad of an idea it would be. But there's still plenty of people who are like, no, gold is gold is where I want to put my my faith in. One of the reasons why it's still around is because people believe that if there's a social collapse, after word, people will still accept gold. They won't accept dollars or pounds or euros, but they'll take gold in return. So that's one reason a lot of people still have faith in gold's investment. There's other people who are like
gold's always going to become more and more valuable because there's a finite amount of it,
right? And that actually is the same thing for Bitcoin. There's a finite amount of Bitcoin, which means that over time it's going to become more and more valuable. It's going to buy more and more stuff, which makes it a deflationary currency, which actually makes it dangerous because that means people are more likely to buy in hard Bitcoin or buy in hard gold because eventually it's
“going to become more valuable and that's how you go into a recession. Yeah, I've never, I'm just,”
you know, me in economics and money. I'm just a big dummy with all that. So cryptocurrency is something that even though we've podcasted on it, I just, it's not like I'm saying like, I don't trust cryptocurrency. I just, I don't understand it and I have no interest in understanding it. Yeah, yeah. Although it does seem to have gained a lot of legitimacy, especially at the point. Sure. But I mean, it's a wild ride. Like it was like 16,000 or earlier this year or like last year.
And now it's at like 61 and 61 is down from 90 something of month or two. Maybe it's a long term thing, but that's not something you want to, I mean, you would have to be so insane to trade that stuff on a daily basis. I don't have the stomach. I'm just, that's not who I am. Me either. You know, I want to, I want to sit around and you and I want to sit around, listen to elevator music. Not, not track the currency. You know, cryptocurrency. No, but for some people is quite thrilling.
Oh, I bet it is. I have fun with that. If that's your thing. For Larry David. Right. So like we said, I think it lacked one that, you know, there are still people that argue for the gold standard and people that argue against that, even though that ship is sailed. And there are, you know, some pretty good arguments each way. If you're for the gold standard, you know, you can say like, hey, that's going to definitely put a lid on this crazy government spending
that we have had going on. And it'll stabilize the money supply. We've seen it do that literally. So, you know, that's a pretty decent, like they got a lot of like data to back those claims up for sure. Yeah. One of them is it's just basically throwing shade at how out of control government spending gets when the government has allowed it literally just print money when it wants to. One of those things that you'll see a lot is that the purchasing power of the dollar
has declined by more than 85% since the US left the gold standard in 1971. The reason why is because the government is keeping printing money anytime it likes, which causes inflation. Well, that's purposeful. Like a fiat currency is an inflationary currency as opposed to a deflationary currency. Like gold, they want inflation to happen because inflation, you can keep on top of. It's deflation that's really hard to come out of. So, yeah, it's not really a problem if you can buy less with the dollar
than you did before because you're adjusting for inflation. It's not a problem as long as your wages
are keeping up with it. The problem is wages haven't kept up with it. And so, people are being
paid the same amount as before and are able to buy less because they have less money even though the cost of living has increased their wages are wages haven't gone up commensurate to it.
“Yeah, for sure. And if you want to talk about like, you know, we're talking about printing money”
and a spike in the cash supply. Here's a pretty staggering statistic. The supply of money in 1970, this is what they call the M2 money supply, which is all the cash, all the money and checking
Accounts, all the travelers checks was about $600 billion in 1970.
In August of last year, it was $22 trillion, which is an increase of 3,566% over whatever,
“54 years. And 20% of that was created in 2020. Yeah, just that year. Yeah. Yeah, so there's this,”
I mean, there's clear evidence that like the government will just print money as much as it can
whenever it wants to. Part of the problem is that also increases the national debt,
because when money out there, if you can print money, make new money, you can spend that new money. If you're the the organization that is creating the money, so the national debt increased tremendously too over that same time period from 1970 to 2025. Yeah, it getting increased 9,000 percent. It was 398 billion back then, and now it is over $36 trillion. And it's a number that is just hard to even comprehend that seemingly nobody, well, not nobody, but the right people
aren't concerned enough about. Right. So gold bugs are like, see, if you let the government print money, they're going to print money, and they're going to spend more money, the gold standard keeps them from being able to do that and of story. That's right, but there are anti gold bugs. There are people who prefer fiat currency and the ability for the government to step in and throw levers and control monetary policy through through debate and decision making. And that's one of the
big arguments is like, hey, we need to be able to to make these decisions sort of on the fly and move quickly to save ourselves in times of doubt and in times of economic stress. And they can also combat a lot of those, a lot of that data too. They can also say, well, yeah, but you really
should look at these numbers instead. Yeah. So gold bugs always say that there's stability
in gold currency, right? But the problem is that if you look at the gold markets, they fluctuate tremendously. So that's actually kind of out the window. Another one, this one, I couldn't find an answer to that I can't rip my head around those. The total value of all the gold in the world is $36 trillion, which is eye-popping. That's your national debt. But yeah, exactly. Ironically. But if you took the entire global economy and valued that, that's more like $126 trillion.
So if the world went on a gold standard again, how would you shrink $206 trillion into $36 trillion?
“That right there, that's what we've been saying. The ship is up the harbor. That train is left”
to station. It's just there's again, there's not enough gold to cover the value of everything in the world. Yeah, for sure. Another big sort of argument that people against the gold standard point to is like, hey, look at our stock market. People aren't putting their money in their mattress anymore and making runs on banks. They're shifting that money. They're cash dollars into the stock market. And those dollars have, have grown and grown and grown. I mean, there are
always dips in the stock markets. And even, you know, there've been some very bad days in a row
with the stock market. And, you know, the crash of 2008 and the dot com bubble and all that stuff always affects the stock market. But it's proven to be a pretty stable thing over time. It has, in fact, if you, there's a comparison, I found a camera member where I found it, but if you took $5,000 in 1971 to celebrate the birth of Chuck. Yeah. And you, you said, I'm going to go by $5,000 worth of gold. It's going to be a great present for Chuck. I'm also going to bring a little
mirror, a little frank in sense. It's going to give you a blick hole in the ear. The gold actually would have increased about 7,500 percent. And this is gold prices are so all over the places.
“This is probably already out of date. But I think in the end of 2025, you would have had”
$379,500 worth of gold from that $5,000 worth of gold you bought in 1971. So that makes it seem like, okay, great. Gold is a good investment. What happens if you invested it in the stock market? Well, if you had had that same five grand after my birth and put it in the S&P 500, you would have made $271,500. So the gold standard wins in that case, but that is if you were just taking those dividends. If you're taking the money that you're making from the stocks and saying,
like, all right, that's, that's my income or whatever. If you had kept reinvesting all that from the five grand, it would be 1.185 million plus what 500 bucks? Yeah. So that's a return of almost
24,000 percent, rather than 7,500 percent.
adjusting for inflation. How much is that? So I looked at it. I went on our bullet with Westsag, and something that cost $5,000 in 1971 would cost you $40,000 today.
So even after you bought that $5,000 thing, you'd still have 1.1 million and change left over.
So it would be much better to invest it in the market. As volatile as it is, as unpredictable as it is, as easy as it is to lose your shirt over the course of time, the ability to unleash the stock market that having a fiat currency and being able to print money creates is a, it's a better return on investment. Yeah. I'm surprised I got through this one. You did great. Well, you did great. You did great. Who wrote the original article here, who was it? That was Olivia Joint. She did great.
Yeah, she did great too, and you did a lot of great supplemental research. Everyone's doing great, everybody. It's just great up in here. We should also say we probably got a lot of stuff wrong. We probably walked past a lot of stuff. This is such a detailed nuanced discussion that people
who are like monetary policy wants. This is one of their favorite things to do, is to point out
all of these nitpicky little things based on mind boggling economics that are really hard to
“describe. We just lay it still over the surface of this. But I think probably we got more”
right than you'd think. Yeah, it's tough to tackle something like this because there are people that know a gazillion times and more about this kind of thing than we do. Yep, and Chuck just said to tackle. So he unlocked the listener mail. Uh, I'm going to call this, um, this was from our crowd's episode, and this is a classroom hack. A question hack from a, uh, I think a teacher. Okay. Um, hey guys, love the episode about crowds. Yeah, I'm a middle school teacher,
and crowds are my standard environment. Uh, your comments about being afraid to ask a question in class really spoke to me because a big part of my job is navigating the power of language with crowds and my students. Uh, there's a simple teacher hack that is most effective and easiest. Um, the easiest change I've ever made to my communication with students and Aaron from New Brunswick, Canada, I will go ahead and say that like, uh, anyone speaking in front of a crowd where
you like source questions. Um, I think this is a pretty good way to go. Okay. Um, and here it is. Instead of saying, does anyone have any questions? Uh, what I say instead is what questions do you have? There must be questions. It really works. Uh, completely different response from the students
guys. The assumption that questions are are expected, always prompts at least one kid to get the
courage, which opens up the gates for everyone else who is too apprehensive. Uh, thanks for being my first podcast in 2012, and for continuing to bring joy and relaxation to a tire but satisfied teacher. Peace and love, and again, that is from Aaron with an E from New Brunswick, Canada. Thanks, Aaron. Peace and love back to you, too. And thanks for teaching. It's good hack. It's a great hack. Questions, who's got them? I know there's some don't lie.
Rack, and then just get more aggressive. All right. Huh? Huh? Give me a question.
“Yeah, that works. If you want to be like Aaron and send us a great email and say,”
peace and love, that's awesome. You can send it off again via email to the email address, stuff podcasts at iheartredio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iheart radio. For more podcasts, my heart radio visit the iheart radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, everyone. It's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the legally brunette podcast. Each week, we're bringing you true crime through a legal lens.
Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy got three or you still need to wrap your head around the Diddy verdict, we're breaking it all down step by step. And we're not just lawyers. We're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes. Listen to legally brunette on the iheart radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When segregation was along, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules.
segregation in the day, integration at night. It was like seven or another world. Was he a businessman, a criminal, a hero? Charlie wasn't an example, a poem. They had the crush him. Charlie's place from Atlas substura and visit mortal beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iheart radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This woman's history month, the podcast, keep it pauses sweetie, celebrate the power of women choosing
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The truth out loud.
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