OpenAI Acquires TBPN

We are a lot of 364 days until April Fool. >> Yes, that's right. We are live in the TVPN Alter Down, Temple of Technology, the Fortress of Finance, the Capital of Capital. We have some huge news.

This is from the Open AI blog. Open AI acquires TVPN accelerating the global conversation about AI. This is not an April Fool's joke. April Fool's was yesterday.

We didn't do anything for April Fool's day. This is real. This is a very interesting deal.

“I think a lot of people will be interested in this.”

We're very excited about this. We have a bunch of context and information to share about how this changes things, what changes, what doesn't.

I'm sure there's a million questions we're trying,

we're going to try and get to them all. But then we also have a huge normal show. >> Normal show, we got Mark Lawyer. >> That's the first thing that's not changing. TVPNs not going away.

We're going to be live every day, three hours, as long as we want. We have a lot of flexibility. We're going to do a lot of interesting things. We got Mark Lawyer. The LeBron James of Ecommerce.

This is from his Wikipedia page. We can pull up the, if you are calling me right now, I can't pick up because I'm live. >> Yeah, you know it. >> At the time to turn off the phone.

>> I think yes, it might be time to turn off the phone. >> Yeah, very, very strange. I think this is maybe the first time in history. There's been a deal like this.

“And then two people that are a part of it have to go and talk”

for three hours straight. But it's technology business as usual over here. >> Yes. >> But we have a fun show for you today.

We'll get into the news in a second.

But we have Adam Myers coming on from CrowdStrike. >> Yes. >> To talk about all the recent axioms hack. >> And more. >> We have Jeremy from Circle coming on.

>> In person. >> In person. >> Which is a third time. >> I'm not sure about the stable points. >> Justin from Shepherd, Garov from Mirage, and then Philip.

>> Garclad. >> Garclad. >> Lots of space news. >> A week. >> We're very excited about the arguments.

Two-mission going successfully. Hopefully you all watched it. It was a lot of fun. We were watching it here on the screen. And we were gripped as the rocket took off because--

>> Yeah, we were so locked in. We were joking around that it felt like it should have been a paper view. It could be turned space into a profit center for the government. >> Somebody was saying that it was not entertaining.

I was extremely entertained. I don't know. >> Maybe they could do more. >> NASA has a decent e-commerce business too. We were watching.

They were selling like 10,000 patches a minute or something like that.

“>> Yeah, yeah, I think we were doing the back of the envelope.”

Just from the main call to action at the bottom of the YouTube stream. They were selling a patch for, I don't know, tens of dollars. And they'd sold like hundreds of thousands of them.

So as we were watching, they were selling like something like $10 million worth of merch.

So maybe go get some for yourself. Anyway, let's go over to Fiji Simo's post on the OpenAI blog. She shared this message with the company earlier today. She says, "I'm excited to share that we've acquired TBPN. This acquisition brings a team of strong editorial instincts, deep audience understanding

and proven ability to convene influential voices across tech, business, and culture." >> I'm still going to be hit to Soundboard. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, you are. TBPN has built something pretty special.

It's one of the places where the conversations about AI and builders is actually happening day to day. A lot of you already watch it and rely on it to stay close to what's going on as I've been thinking about the future of how we communicate an open AI, one thing that's become clear is that the standard communications playbook just doesn't apply to us.

We're not a typical company. We're driving a really big technological shift and the mission of bringing, and with the mission of bringing AGI to the world comes a responsibility to help create a space for real, constructive conversation about the changes AI creates with builders and people using the technology at the center.

That's exactly what TBPN has built, which is what I was going to say is the next line. That is a huge part of the show is making sense of what's going on, how these tools are actually being used, all of the implications we've gone all over the place and we will continue to go all over the place. >> Yeah, and over the last year, like multiple years, there's just been so much uncertainty

about AI. I don't think we can change that. But there's also a lot of fear just talking through it with the people that are actually helping to fuse AI through the economy across every single industry is something that we've enjoyed a tremendous amount and is exactly what we're going to continue to do if you

want to continue. >> Yeah, so she says, so rather than trying to recreate that ourselves, it made a lot of sense just to bring them in, support what they're doing and help them scale. Well, keeping what makes them special, a core part of this is editorial independence. We can say whatever we want because we're live and we don't need to run anything through

anyone. And not possible. >> It is. It would be very difficult to have somebody here. Can we say this?

I've been back to say a sentence. TBPN will continue to run their programming, choose their own guests and make their own editorial decisions. That's foundational to their credibility and it's something we're explicitly protecting as part

And also, we were never in the scoop industry, people were kind of asking like, is this journalism?

Is it commentary?

“I think we've always been like, hey, we like to talk to a lot of people, have a conversation,”

bring in people. And even when that Taiwanese have approached us and said, we'll give you the exclusive. We don't, yeah, we'll say, give it to the else. >> It's like, hey, you can come on the show. >> We've got to go, we actually want you to go talk to the journal or the Times or Bloomberg.

>> Or Bloomberg. >> Or Bloomberg, et cetera. >> Yeah. >> Wherever you want to go. >> And then come and contextualize it with us and let us dig in and understand more about

the strategy. And so, TBPN will continue running their programming, choose their guests and make their own editorial decisions. That's foundational to their credibility and something we're explicitly protecting as part of this agreement.

I'm also excited to bring their amazing comms and marketing instincts to the team. We got lots of ideas, and we're very excited for this. They've helped many brands market online, and because they have a strong pulse on where the industry is going, their comms and marketing ideas have really impressed you, see what I mean.

I can't wait to leverage their talent outside of the show to innovate on how we bring AI to the world in a way that helps people understand the full impact of this technology on their daily lives. TBPN will sit within our strategy organization, reporting to Chris LaHane, really excited to welcome Jordan, John, Dylan, and the broader team.

And here's the statement from you. Do you want to read just? What did you say? >> Over the past year, we've had a front row seat not just to open AI, but to the entire ecosystem

covering the daily news announcements and launches and real time, while we've been critical

of the industry at times after getting to know Sam, Ph.G. and the Open AI team. What stood out the most was their openness to feedback and commitment to getting this right, moving from commentary to real impact and how this technology is distributed and understood globally is incredibly important to us. So, I contextualize a little bit more shared, you know, a lot of people are like, is this

an April Fool's joke, I've been saying expect the unexpected, this is a plot twist, I'll give you that, here was unexpected, it was unexpected to me, but I'm really happy about it.

“And when I reflect on my career, I think it makes a lot of sense, and I can walk you through”

some of my career and my experience with Open AI and with Sam Altman. The I've known Sam for maybe 13 years, he invested in my first company in 2013, and then we got in a really serious log jam during a financing, and I wrote him an email, I told this story in Bloomberg a couple of years ago. I wrote an email and said, hey, this is getting really rough, I'm a first time founder,

I don't know if we're going to be able to get this done, and he called me and we hopped on the phone for like five minutes, and he was able to completely resolve everything and everyone walked out of the deal feeling pretty good.

And so that always left this impression on me that he was founder friendly, obviously,

he didn't, in this particular case, it was to my benefit, not particularly to his benefit, the way the deal, the way the deal, like wound out, and he was just a great addition to the negotiation and really, and you were very young at the same time. You were just a wee lad. I was.

I was twenty three, twenty four, something like that. And then when I took my second company through YC, he was president at the time, and then when I joined Founders Fund, the very first deal that I saw in motion at Founders Fund was the post-Chetched PT round in open AI in late 2022, early 2023. And so I sort of had this front row seat to all of this, and then once we actually started

growing TPPN, here's one of the first people that I texted to, you know, say, hey, do you want to come on the show? And he was the first lab lead to come on the show, and we're excited to continue having him on the show. Hopefully, have other lab leads on the show, have other people from all over the industry.

“And just generally, I think that when I was at Founders Fund, I was not particularly”

in the weeds of intruck venture capital fights. I was much more interested in the conversation around technological stagnation, not funding companies, not making great companies happen. I never was in a situation where I was like, oh, like, if a different VC firm backs a great company, that's bad, you know?

And I think that's the same philosophy that I have always taken forward and will continue to believe in, which is that the American AI industry is the most important thing, and that will continue to be the case, and I'm excited for all the different competition and everything that's happening in the industry to continue and push further. Jordi, did you have anything else to say?

I just wanted to say, some thank yous, because a lot of people have been a part of this journey to date. It's been, I think something like, let me do the math here, 496 days, roughly 16 months, since we put out the first episode, it was just the two of us in back. And sitting in a room, a couple cameras, a couple microphones, and I will just say I didn't

Like, I think, like, if you look back on that almost 500 days, we've had disagreements around strategy or approaches or things like that, but we have, like, almost universally stayed perfectly aligned on everything that matters every single day, every step of the way.

“And I think that's somewhat of a miracle given that we went into this, not really knowing”

what it would become. Yeah, we did like one side project together, and it took like eight months, and it was like not, it was like successful, but it was not like, oh yeah, like, okay, we were working together daily for months, you know, it was a lot of just, just jumping and leap thing, right?

Yeah, and I think we've got this question so many times, like, do you guys get sick of each other? You know, you just have to talk to each other for three hours a day, and like, I've said this before, I'll say it again, and it is actually hilarious. The second that we leave the office, we're, we both get in the car, we call each other.

We're talking for like another hour on the way home, and so it's just been, it's been the privilege of, of a lifetime to just build this business with you.

And the whole team, the team has been absolutely incredible.

“You guys are all truly amazing, and this very much is a, this very much is a team, like”

a team sport, like business as a team sport, but this is like a live team sport we come in here every single day, and the show doesn't happen if we don't all come in, and make it happen, and so the consistency of the team has been just incredible, and watching everyone's individual talents just flourish has been incredible. A lot of people came into this, you know, having done a thing or two in the past, but learning

new things, Brandon has been absolutely incredible, just an absolute rock in the organization. Brandon, if you're not familiar, writes our newsletter every day, and is just remarkably consistent, and has like, you know, helped us shape our editorial approach, and it's been incredible, Dylan, who joined us, I guess, technically Q4, of last year, you know, I'd worked with him at my last company, but is truly, truly one of a kind, remarkable.

I never want to, I never want to do business without him, and he has just done such an

exceptional job, working off there, it's like, you know, challenging when you're building a company, and you're also having to put on a live performance for three hours every day. He wrote the newsletter yesterday, so that's true. He wrote the op-ed, he wrote the op-ed, then, then, who's been here since, since

before, TVPN, he was working with me on my YouTube channel, when did we start working new? I was here before, Jordy. Yeah. Maybe, like, mid-24 or maybe, something like that?

Sounds right. Sounds right. Yeah. Yeah. We traveled a lot.

A lot of, please.

No, but it's been absolutely incredible to watch you grow from an extremely talented individual

into a very capable and talented manager and building out a team of people that are so hard working and wonderful, and, you know, Michael Scott Jackson, you guys are so, you know, such a joy to work with, even though what we do is not easy, and it's changing, you know, day-to-day. Yeah.

To all the guests, seriously, it's been, it's been so much fun, like, if you went back and rewind to the beginning of the show, to, we started with no guests. We did something like 50 episodes without any guests. We thought that there was a time that we thought we would just do that forever, because

“that was the only thing that was, you know, really unique about the show.”

Like, that's the reason I started creating content in 2020, because it was during COVID. There were no events, there were no places to meet other founders, meet other business people. I wasn't thinking of it as, like, a media business, I was thinking of it as, like, a way to just have conversations and meet other people who are building companies, and now we

get to do that all day long, which is just after you come true. Yeah. So, so many guests have turned into, to dear friends, you know, the, the Joe Wies and Dolls, the Dylan Patels, there's really too many to list, but we will have you all back on the show.

So, I can't wait. It's everybody that's tuned in, whether you've watched, you know, the RSS feed live show, the clips, the newsletter, and the hard, you know, we've strive to, to create the right

the newsletter. Great.

“If you've got five minutes to watch some clips, if you want to watch the entire podcast,”

if you want to watch diet, TBPN, the daily cut-down, thank you, thank you for tuning in, and fortunately, pretty much, everything is going to stay exactly the same. Talk to you. Talk to you. You want to know only Tyler.

Tyler, you are truly, truly incredible, one of the brightest young people I've ever, I've

ever worked with, and you have such a bright future, you know, we always, we always, we always

knew that I've felt from the very beginning that you would go on to start your own company, and we cherish every single minute that we have with you, and we're going to do our very best to retain you for decades, but thank you for everything you've brought to the

“show, everything you've built, Tyler, if you're just tuning in now as built all of the”

internal software that we, we used to run the show, it is a, you know, fully custom, you know, content management system, CRM, it helps us edit all of our videos, is the backbone of the show. It's a tool that the entire team uses on a daily basis, and truly the show would not be possible without it, and yeah, your, your contributions on air as well, it's, it's so

much fun to be able to cut over to you, and so it is with great honor that I give you this sound board, yeah, and our sponsors, yeah, we can start with with the ramp team, Eric,

Eric Karim, and the whole, the whole team over there has just been incredible, they allowed

us, you know, at the, at the beginning, at, sorry, the end of 2024, when we had started doing the show, we really loved it, they were, they committed to sponsoring the show for a year,

“and that allowed us to do, to do so much in terms of investing in all, in all the equipment”

that we use, hiring people, they, they made it possible and have been truly, truly exceptional partners, and, you know, watching ramps growth over the last, over the last couple of years has just been phenomenal and they deserve all the, all the success, and every other sponsor that has, that has been a part of this, yeah, it's truly, shout out Nick as well, what did you not get one?

We got to get a direction over Nick, we got a direction out for Nick, we don't know what to call Nick, he's a, we can't give his name on air, because he'll get 10 times more emails, he, the, the line up every day is, is crafted by Nick, he is early as on to 99% of the guests that come on the show, sometimes it starts with an interaction over X or a, a text message or there's other intermediaries involved, there's a lot that goes into actually getting

someone into the waiting room, into the show, making sure that they understand how the show will work, it's sort of like, you know, you're hot, dropping into this live show, that's new for a lot of people, and Nick does a great job communicating and, and parsing all the noise to understand what the best news of the day is, how we can contextualize it best with the, with the optimal guests, and he's done a fantastic job, and we'll

continue, yeah, it's an honor, it's a, David Centra, yeah, one of the kind, he literally

inspired us, yeah, David was our very, first listener that I'm aware of, he gets sent

a lot of, we sent my link in a Google drive, and he listened, and from that first episode, even though it was very scrappy, he said, take this, take this, you know, a hundred times more seriously, then, then you, then you are right now, and we did, and it's, it's the best advice that I've ever gotten, and he has been, and we have a picture, we have a picture of him here, we couldn't print it full size, I mean, there's, there's a black and white

photo printed, but it's a black and white photo, and he's a black and white brand, so thank you, David Centra, who's been, the podcast godfather, truly, and the gong, the chat is asking us to hit the gong, we have to, we have to rush large, the gong will remain, the gong will remain, Wilmanitis has already chimed in, with his take, he says many, many people are saying, we're in the deal guy, you gong, many are saying, and it means a lot that Wilmanitis,

the only he is the only guest who has co-hosted a full show from start to finish with us, and if you want to go back in the archives, you can watch that episode, it's a wild one,

really hard to make that one happen, and very chaotic, a good time, very chaotic, and yeah, where else should we go, should we go to, is there anything else to say about open air? I mean, of course we'll be in conversation with you forever, you know, any time on the show you're

“welcome to leave a comment or chat in the chat is asking, where is Wilmanitis right now?”

I don't know, probably sailing above, I don't know, and yeah, it's an honor to partner with Open AI and every single person on the team that we've had the pleasure of meeting, we've been impressed by, they are ridiculously talented, and every single person is committed to getting, getting this AI thing right, so. I'm very excited. We're incredibly excited. Great, well let's move on to the Artemis 2 pictures and images and news,

very, very exciting, and made the front of the Wall Street Journal, and NASA aims to orbit moon for first time since '72 to boldly go the crew of NASA. Chat is asking, is that three diet coax? Yes. You got to thank you. Thank you to the Coca-Cola Corporation for making this

“possible. Thank you to the human team, the Mata, for the Matena, your Mata is the podcast and a can.”

Wouldn't be possible without you guys. And thank you to Taylor's and suitmaker. There's a lot of people that make this possible. The horse, the prop department, there's a million things here. It's been a great time. So the crew of NASA Artemis 2, head to Cape Canaveral, launch, Wednesday,

for the first human space flight to the moon in half a century, John Krauss hosted a incredible

photo. Is he someone who actually, yeah, he special comms assistant, he actually goes to the launches and brings special photography gear to get the best possible photos and man he did he deliver with this one. What an incredible moment. We talked about it a little bit. There's an article on the watches of NASA Artemis 2. John, we have to thank our lovely wives. Of course. How could we now? Our families. Did you get a text? Maybe. We don't talk about them a lot on the show.

Yes. This is a show about technology and business, but they have been there, the back, they're the truly the backbones of the show and I've put up with a lot of travel.

It's a lot of incredible hours. A lot of mornings. A lot of mornings. I think out of the last

out of every single day that we've done the show, I've left the house past six a.m. Maybe twice. It's been a long road and the good news, ladies, is it's nothing's going to change. Now, thank you to both of you for supporting us and allowing us to do what we do. Can we pull up this picture, Ben, in the production chat of the first episode that we recorded in the Jonathan Club in downtown, showing a little bit of a bit of a bit earlier.

“Oh, you did. This is a, yeah, such a, such a wild time. Remember that?”

Yeah, remember that's right. Suitless. Suitless. We had the flag. Yeah. But no suits. It looked, it looked pretty good on camera. I was happy with the way it came out, but Ben can cook. Ben can cook. Well, um, where should we go next? Artemis 2. Let's do it. Yesterday, the long awaited Artemis 2 mission took to the stars and

root to the moon for the first such manned mission since 1972.

That's for a flashbang. Yeah, the flashbang has been a highlight for sure. Both literally, yeah, this sound, this sound board. It's truly a character on this go. I have some too now. Uh, it's members all had Omega Speedmaster X33 models strapped to their flight suits, Danny Milton, uh, just wrote a full article on the site. Now, detailing the watches worn on the wrists of the four astronauts throughout their time as part of this mission.

Watches have a long standing history with space like most notably through the Omega Speedmaster moon watch, but there are countless others that have cemented their place in the cosmos head to the site to learn more about the watches of Artemis 2 from the Speedmaster X332. A surprising brightling. You won't want to miss it. And this is from Teddy Baldissar. Uh, who's a great watch creator? So we can pull up this video now of the astronauts working on

what looks like some type of tablet that this was. Do you think it's an iPad? I don't think so.

very committed to the. Oh, yeah. It looks like they run out. Look or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So here he is, uh, typing in. Most secure password known to man.

What is that? 9393 or something? 3993993? 9393. Powerful. Powerful. Um, well, uh, we're going back to the moon.

Apparently that video we played yesterday was a little bit of fake news. The, the, the, the young man, the adolescent who swears and says, we're going to the F and moon. He was, he, the,

“the real line I believe in the community note is that he says we're going to the fricking.”

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was all turned to add the actual effort. But the, but the sentiment is still the same. Yeah. It's very exciting. Very inspirational. Jared Isaacman on launch day says, Oh, this kid is definitely getting a bag of NASA gear. That's great. Very cool. Um, um, there is some, there are some wrinkles with the launch, right? Fortunately, nothing like disasters are catastrophic or anything. But the good news is that we're on our way back to the moon. The

bad news is that the toilet's broken apparently. Uh, and I believe this is from the live blog from the New York Times. Uh, the NASA associated minister said there is a controller issue with a toilet on the Orion capsule. And it would take a few hours to troubleshoot. We're just getting started. He said, when addressing that some, uh, that and some other glitches with the space, a lot of space craft, the spirit of Apollo 10 lives on. They said 135, they told us that here's

another, uh, it seems like this is not the first time that this has happened. Um, but we're hoping for the best here. Sounds like there were some other issues with outlook as well. Uh, we can pull up this video from Tom Warren. Yes. Those audio with this, too. We can remote in and take a look directly. Yeah, go for it. And then I also see that I have two Microsoft outlooks and neither one

“of those are working if you want to remote in and check to why do you have two like web and desktop?”

Or you think it's like two separate desktop installations? Join in on your PCD and we'll let you know when we're done. Honestly, this is the best possible failure scenario is outlook, not the rocket

itself. So I think it's a good action. There were so many amazing images coming out yesterday.

Yeah. Uh, Peyton Alexander says, this is the real reward for Artemis. This is who we are actually doing this for. They will grow up knowing they can one day work in their country's bases on the moon and Mars. We are not just abstractly hoping for a better world for them. We are going there. And two kids here watching the launch from Orlando. That's just beautiful. Yeah, my five-year-old said it was boring, which is what you want to hear, but we'll have to

give some more context to him about how big of a deal it is. He was like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe

“he wants more, more flashing lights on the screen. We were driving for the actual launch.”

Yeah. And it was so funny listening to the audio feed and sitting in traffic and just looking out at everyone. Yeah. And realizing that it felt like the majority of the world still wasn't paying attention or we're didn't care. Yeah. I mean, the rockets do launch like every day now. I know SpaceX has normalized it to such a degree. Isn't there, isn't there some sort of subplot on the Apollo missions that by the by the third or fourth Apollo mission? There was no,

like the actual viewership had dropped off and like the American population had gotten to 2.6 has put subway surfers on it. Yeah. On the NASA feed. Actually, I need to maybe need to do this. I'd love to was at the launch. But yes, he was. Let's pull up this video of legendary tech. I mean, it's an emotional moment. So I guess it makes sense to capture his resolve. But everyone's saying he should turn around and actually watch it. But it's very funny

to do this selfie video. I mean, it contextualized the moment perfectly. But it is, oh, he was live on the air. He was alive on the air. Okay. So I mean, if you're alive like you, you don't want to necessarily turn around, I guess. I don't know. There's that famous clip of what? It's a wild video.

There's that amazing clip from that documentary where the the host is giving this monologue.

And then the monologue ends right as the launch happens. Like he timed it up perfectly. And it's very cinematic anyway. I don't know. Delling shared the the the coolest orbital animation he's seen of Artemis too. It looks a lot less fishy when you see it this way. It's fascinating how close they have to be. That's in bite this. She John means one of the other. It was shaped like a net actually was shaped like a fish. But this one is a

little bit more of a striss shot. But it really emphasizes how short that window is where you're actually next to the moon. It really, Delling says really just really shows you how far away

I'm very excited to all right following this. New York Times article how is I help one man

and his brother build a 1.8 billion dollar company? Yeah. If you need more than two employees

when AI can do so many corporate tasks, it's super efficient and a little bit lonely. Aaron Griffith has the story. People are calling this the the prophecy, the prophecy and one man 1 billion dollar company. Yeah. If you're in tech and you're in the business of making predictions,

“no one wants predictions. We want prophecies. Prophecies. You need you need to be”

prophesizing for sure. So the article how AI helped one man and his brother build a 1.8 billion dollar company who needs more than two employees that when artificial intelligence can do so many corporate tasks, it's super efficient and a little bit lonely. So Aaron Griffith tells the story of Matthew Gallagher to took just two months, $20,000 and more than a dozen artificial intelligence tools to get his startup off the ground. From his house in Los Angeles, Mr. Gallagher 41 used AI

to write the code for the software that powers his company produce the website copy, generate the images and videos for ads and handle customer service. He created AI systems to analyze his business his performance and he outsourced the other stuff he couldn't do himself. His startup, MedV, a telehealth provider of GLP-1 weight loss drugs got 300 customers in its first month, the second month gain more than 1,000 more in 2025, MedV's first year in business, the company

general year, the first full year in business, the company generated $401 million in sales. Mr. Gallagher

“Gennheiser only is absolutely insane because as GLP-1s were starting to take off, I remember distinctly”

talking with somebody that was like, I want to start a telehealth company for GLP-1s and at that time, I was like, okay, there's a lot of telehealth companies that are at scale. They're well-aware of this. They will immediately introduce this product and other similar products to their customer base and it's going to be incredibly difficult to be competitive and it turns out there is just such overwhelming demand for these products that you could come in as a new company and scale.

I'm sure this guy, Mr. Gallagher is incredibly talented but the market overall is just growing so quickly that it didn't matter that every other telehealth company was also getting into the

game. There was just such an incredible volume of sales coming in. Yeah, yeah, so like one year in

maybe he hires his only employee, his younger brother, Elliott this year they're on track to do $1.8 billion in sales. A $1.8 billion company with just two employees in the age of AI, it's increasingly possible since Aaron Griffith in the New York Times. Sam Alman, the Chief Executive Open AI predicted the rise of a new breed of super-efficient company in 2024. A one-person business worth $1 billion would have been unimaginable without AI he said on a podcast and now it will

happen. Now is AI tool spread entrepreneurs are harnessing the technology to expand their startups to an enormous scale at breathtaking speed with very few human humans. Big companies especially in tech are getting in on this disruption to Pinterest block and others have cut thousands of workers in recent months, setting efficiencies enabled by AI. Mr. Gallagher, who formerly ran a startup that sold wristwatches, said he thought Mr. Altman's prophecy of a $1 billion one-person

$1 billion company would be affirmed that built AI. He was excited when he realized he may have done it taking an old idea of being a middleman for weight loss drugs and using AI to turbo-charge it. I am interested to know we're going to try and get him on the show. What the margins are on this, I imagine that the revenue is a lot of this needs to accrue. A lot of the value needs to accrue to the companies that actually designed and the one-person $1 billion

companies had a billion dollar valuation. At the same time, I would imagine that even a reseller would trade around like one-ax revenue maybe. I have no idea, maybe way more. It's just count, this is count yet though. I feel like to be the one-person one-billion dollar company. You've got to be able to log into your pay roll tool and you're the only person there. He's got his brother. Sorry, bro. Take a walk. He's got his brother.

Let his brother go. In an email, Mr. Altman said that it appeared he had won a bet with his taxi of friends over when such a company would appear and said that he would like to meet the guy who had done it. Medvie is technically not a one-person one-billion dollar company since he hired his brother and some contractors. The startup was just not raised outside funding. Also has no official valuation but many highly valued tech companies can only dream of hitting one billion in revenue.

“So a few workers. Medvie is also profitable. It is great and important if you're bootstrapped.”

Is this a rapper company? It's like a GOP-1 rapper. But it's AI enabled but it's not

the efficiency between the manufacturer and the actual distribution. It really is remarkable that

“they were able to hover up so much revenue in such a competitive space because you would assume that”

that the other telehealth providers would have significant ad operations and that the margins on customer acquisition would be very, very tricky to crack but he must have found some unique insight into how to distribute the product, get actual people to the website because the AI certainly can build the website and write the copy but it can't necessarily get people to show up and actually put down their hard earned cash for the product. Yeah just to put it into context,

him did 2.3 billion in full year 2025 revenue for 2025. This guy started in 2024 and got to 401 million in sales. I want to know more about the strategy here, how this built up so quickly.

As a teenager Mr. Gallagher began building websites for local businesses, he always had a

hustle including selling candles and samurai swords on eBay. This is the classic founder journey

“selling something that's not even played. That's how I was selling DJ equipment on eBay back when”

I was a teenager. At 18 after building a web hosting business he sold that business for $6,000. He briefly attended the University of Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky University but did not graduate. In 2010 he moved to Los Angeles to become an actor. He eventually returned to coding, bouncing between tech jobs. In 2016 he built Watch Gang, a startup that sold Ritz watches via subscription. Interesting. Is that like a buy now paid later for watches? Well I would get a lot of

you want to tell them. You're like you got another watch. If you're just subscribed to like

I didn't realize I was getting a subscription. Oops it came in the mail again. It had fans but never

turned a profit watch gang. Even as Mr. Gallagher chased revenue growth and hired 60 people so wildly different business outcome here. Wow. I'm not doing that again. Opening I was released of Shaggy PD 2022 inspired Mr. Gallagher to start tinkering with a I-2 years later he met Jiton Chabra, a co-founder of CAREvalidate a medical startup in Atlanta CAREvalidate offers. What is essentially telehealth in a box kits? Companies, employers, and retailers who

want to sell customers prescription drugs can use CAREvalidate's technology and network of online doctors to set up a business. The company's software connects patients with doctors and pharmacies

“which write fulfill and ship the prescriptions CAREvalidate charges fees for software. So you have to”

imagine that there's like a fairly decent cost structure here but it's not too diminished. It's

an incredible amount of revenue. You look at the comps in your blown away. But yeah it's just interesting

to understand. Yeah the other big the other big question here is like how much you spending on ads. Yeah. Like it's very possible that the company is profitable. Yeah. But if you're spending 60% of every dollar you bring in on paid acquisition plus cars. Yeah. And then any other expenses that actually go into fulfilling. And you're actually getting subscriptions. Like by himself he's like I don't even invest in bank. I'm just gonna like vibe code the the the the road show.

And 100% retail allocation. I don't know. I mean I think I think like taking a company public is just technically a bunch of SEC filings and if the investors sign up and the emails are sent and everyone agrees it can happen. So who knows maybe he takes his company public with two people that would be a one. Like it's just the the New York Stock Exchange bell ringing and normally it's like 20 people and it's like only the executive team and bankers

and they're all the employees are you know outside around the trading floor and he's just standing there been like yeah I did it like by myself. While Gallagher saw an opportunity for his own telehealth business he could use AI to do the branding and marketing and let care validate. And a similar platform open loop health which is another interesting company and someone who's posting about handled the doctors, pharmacies, shipping and compliance. He planned to start with

GOP ones. He was entering an established market for nearly a decade. Hims and hers, health, row and other companies have sold drugs for erectile dysfunction and hair loss online using an online network of doctors to write prescriptions. Hims which went public in 2021 has 2,442 employees and generated 2.4 billion in revenue. This was what I was explaining to my friend who wanted to do something in this space. Like hey you're you're going to be going up against a company that

has billions of revenue already. Thousands of employees that already has all the infrastructure to prescribe these drugs. But again the market is just growing so quickly. Yeah he really used everything tragedy clawed grock 11 labs mid-Journey Runway to create media assets for his website and ads. He spent $1,000 in notable something quite notable out of any time we're seeing these stories

if you can think of LLMs as like digital, digital guys or girls. Like people are working with

“multiple digital guys to do to complete these projects. Yeah so one model is better writing one”

model is better coding one model is better at marketing or strategy or anything else. Interesting he said from the beginning growth was insane he became he quickly became one of care validates and open loops top clients companies were blown away by star speed scale you're like do you have an army of people behind you somewhere and he's like nope wow. Well you can go read the full article on the New York Times at New York Times.com it's Aaron Griffith's latest piece you can also

listen to it there's an audio version. There is some commentary on this just a lot of people

haven't fun with it. Clayton Petty says who has two thumbs and wants to know what the ad

spend is. This guy. Yeah I'm very interested to know. I mean I would still be shocked if this is not a fantastic business yeah that that scale you can have truly terrible you bet on margins and still be printing. Yeah and it's like even if even if like it's impossible it's negative margin because he hasn't raised money and so like where would the losses come from so you can't be losing

“money and if you're gonna level it up. I don't think so about I think everyone's gonna be shocked”

by how much cash flow this business is producing but it is it is a very exciting exciting moment in story let's go over to Tyler Cowan at Marjorie Revolution. He just shares this Sam said one

person running a billion dollar company but if two are closely genetically related Tyler Cowan

still counting this as as as a correct prediction and some people in the comments. Yeah here huge opportunities for for other siblings to fulfill the prophecy. Yeah so people are moving the golf house already because technically he had agencies that had humans that worked there and if he works with a marketing agency and then there's a bunch of people there it's more just like the disaggregation of the of the different institutions and the different organizations. Yeah I think

the the real goal post we got to move is just you can't talk to anyone the entire time you're you can't talk to your human at all you can't say you can only be on the command line basically or prompt box yeah but you can tell the agent or the LM to go and and and call someone

“yeah I do that's fine yeah okay and you're not interface with someone. Do you have to be truly”

shot in that that's the prediction now um absolutely ridiculous. Chad is asking for John actually John. Yes. Get an ultrasound. Yeah back here we didn't know how to unplug actually we got all the background there. He's he's somewhere. Well well well we'll we'll get him back in Jonathan Ross is talking about the petro dollar there was a story about how there has been an interesting flight to the dollar the dollar is very strong even amid all of the geopolitical

uncertainty. Jonathan Ross the founder of uh Grock uh now the chief software architect at Nvidia said the petro dollar defined the last 50 years of academic and American economic dominance the token dollar the currency AI compute is bought in and sold in will define the next 50 oil is priced in the in U.S. dollars that means every country on earth needs dollars to fuel their economy that single fact has been the foundation of American financial power since the 1970s.

Now consider AI training runs cost tens of billions inferences scaling to hundreds of billions the companies sell that are selling compute or American the currency it's priced in is dollars the petro dollar the petro dollar head oil the token dollar has compute same structure same leverage new resource countries aren't just competing over AI talent and chips they're competing over whether AI remains a dollar denominated economy that's the game nobody's naming yet and so he is

coinning it he says the token dollar is the is the concept yeah it's it's a it's a cool position yeah so i mean it'll be interesting to talk about uh circle with Jeremy about how stable coins fit and all this also yesterday talking to core weave about compute backed credit lines and all the different financial products that are popping up related to debt issued against GPUs that have essentially a flow of business that will be expected to come in against them very interesting watching

the larger AI economy you know mature brexit says compute back credit lines are the next frontier for fixed income and will quickly turn into one of the largest asset classes on the planet people are going back and forth no shade trying to learn isn't compute as an asset depreciating quickly due to innovation scale economies hence bad collateral brexit says no shade taken you're right but it's still a couple notes supply constraints on chips right now makes older chips still valuable

rather than resale value and chips are only a subset of the total cost of compute heterogeneous builds the rack power shell interconnect cooling it was interesting uh when we were talking with core weave about the uh that i was i was really expecting the answer to be a chip constraints and he was saying power shells power shells which is what we've heard from such in a deline's

“yeah and i and i think it makes sense given their business it's like it's it's uh it's hard to get”

chips but think about all of the logistical complexity to actually get the location the energy shell everything built together um and navigating all those regulations it's just like one of the it's an incredibly complex infrastructure project that you're trying to compress on two timelines that america has generally not done infrastructure projects at in a long long time right

and so this was this was always some of the you know one of the exciting things about the

data center build out among among the fear has been that um uh america like a bunch of people are learning how to build complex things fasting right so well uh the year is off to the strongest start for big deals ever corporate mega deals flourish despite turmoil uh this is in the Wall Street journal large corporate deals had their best quarterly uh showing ever as companies forged ahead

“with tie-ups and investments despite the Iran war rattling markets so far in 2026 uh 22 transactions”

valued at 10 billion or more have been announced globally a record quarterly number according to LSEG data uh the next closest quarter was the fourth quarter of 2015 when 21 such deals were announced

in that year this week alone you'll ever uh unveiled a more than $65 billion deal including debt

to combine its food business with spice maker macormic and Cisco which we talked about a few days ago agreed to buy jet-tro uh jet-ro restaurant depo for over $29 billion including debt uncertainty due to oil growth rate growth and rates isn't going away but major deals are still getting done said then good child a partners in the M&A group at law firm Paul Weiss the M&A market is focused on the long-term fundamentals right deal right price and right strategic

rationale um there's more the total value of all deals announced globally jump roughly 29% in the first quarter from a year ago but the number of deals is down more than 17% as a smaller deal activities slowed the mega deal tally includes a handful big equity investments in AI companies such as Amazon's $50 billion investment uh in open AI announced in February a number of other big transactions are in the works S.A. Latter has been in discussions to acquire Spanish beauty group

pia pweek brands a deal that would combine two of the world's biggest beauty companies and there is a number of others absolute is buying jackdainials uh telman fureta is buying the Caesar's entertainment there's another heist on the Caesar's casino referencing Apollo uh many companies see a moment to pounce on bigger deals that would normally face prolonged antitrust scrutiny the just department's top antitrust official departed in

February after clashing with Trump allies who at times favored more lenient oversight of big deals all this all comes as U.S. stocks delivery their works quarter in nearly four years led by 7% drop in the tech heavy NASDAQ composite index uh that makes it harder for buyers and sellers to grant price to agree on prices uh the around war has sent crude prices above a $100 barrel which could keep interest rates higher for longer to combat rising prices and make

funding deals more expensive there's a very interesting uh chart i don't know if we can pull it up

in the journal big deals have big first quarter number of global deals valued at 10 billion or more

there we go and uh it's just look at 2020 2021 if you 2021 what was going on this is another chart

“is nine oh if you want to scroll down you can look at the smaller deals these are deals value”

between one billion and five billion and 2021 was huge what was going on then it was zirp era right postcode lots of i mean if and when interest rates are near zero you may as well lever up i guess that's yeah i guess that's uh bankers and lawyers say smaller deals are less of a must have buyers are more willing to put them on hold but the big deals they have to have it happen regardless of what's going on the economy uh also private equity firms are sitting on a

record number portfolio companies they need to eventually sell or take public including many software firms threatened by the reservoir but many are hesitant to strike deals at today's depressed prices while deal making activity in the software industry has stalled there has been plenty in other sectors including financial uh services and health care uh Eli Lilly struck a deal for

couple questions in the chat with a special arrival john actually has entered the chat let's go

“welcome the original chat room general yeah set the gun for actually”

i got the drone is missing episode and uh it's an honor to podcast with you john thank you

sir another question who is blacklisted from tvpn now uh no one no one you've never uh there's

never been any anyone blacklisted from the show in fact uh the evidence of this is every single one of our sponsors ever we've had the competitors on the show um and um all of that will continue we want this to be a place where uh coverage is gonna happen about anything yeah yeah so and there's also just a broader trend of this i don't know if you if you watch like the broader podcast landscape people from like you know quote unquote like rival firms or different firms going each other shows

all the time uh not not uncommon these days for uh crossover uh content to happen all over the place uh James Cramer says if private credit is so horrendous how is kkr over subscribe so easily on his $20 billion fund they raised $23 billion some kind of disconnect here boys boy are these firms ill advised and had a tell their story this was the this was the early uh confusion about private credit people were seeing a whole bunch of private credit deals during the

AI boom and and then uh when the when the the the the the the nervousness matured it was much more when we talked to uh carry no interest for example the the the the the worry was much more around uh software companies not hard assets it was not oh in this private credit uh fund there's a data center that meta is gonna pay their bill on it's some other company that maybe is not going

“to have as high of dollar retention going forward and so i think that the the different private”

credit firms have a messaging problem of like what is in the fund because it can be a lot of different stuff and kkr clearly did a great job explaining why their particular strategy will endure for the long haul uh there's other news about uh let's pull up let's pull up this video quickly of creamer talking about our friends at semi-analysis uh there there is a company that i record it's the it's the absolute it's the gospel semi-dust and i've got this guy Joe in Patel and

I think that makes you realize the semi-analysis is the arbitrator there's a lot of stuff semi-dust and condesities when they bless something it means that it's the bit that benchmark

at the best they are the most honest guys i've come across and i i've always been reading them

like jensen plays really praise the ktc so i reached out to this guy who my record is his genius that's a good way to talk about that so that's that's a problem yeah we'll see it tonight it was good problem add money six p.m. it's awesome how long says can i short myself some people with some people were saying like yeah come on dude like he's complimenting you and Dylan and uh in cramming obviously and i've always said that that cramer having this

saying where no matter what he says people say like he and verse they'll take the verse it is the best engagement pack ever for a content creator facility because it just means anything you say

“you get a million impressions for people saying the opposite and the fact is like gym”

cramer is uh he's an entertainer he is incredibly you know fun to listen to and uh we'll be we'll be having another conversation with him in the next uh in the next month or so which i'm excited about let's head over to clef water and Steven nespit he brought private credit to the masses now the masses are fleeing this is more context around the private credit story uh clef water is racing to calm investors after steep withdrawal so Steven nespit is private credit chief

evangelist his investors and industry are having a crisis of faith Nick says hope that still

means my invite is open we'd love to have Nick of course Nick your family yeah we're always

positive as long as as long as we're we keep a positive we can say it's and we keep the camera roll smiling and we and we maintain that occasionally we are back it's not always over very frequently we're back very frequently uh Nick will admit that let's true no we have a great conversation with him when he came in uh for more than a decade the 72 year old champion the hottest asset class on Wall Street his farm cliff water went from managing no money to nearly 50 billion on the back of impressive

fundraising and big gains turning nespit into a billionaire now many of the wealthy individuals who

after a handful of high profile defaults investors are pulling so much money out of industry funds

“the manager which drifting with draws we talked about this many times in the show uh shares a”

big firms are dropping few are like cliff water which until recently was an investor darling but now finds itself in the hot seat its top executives aren't lending specialists themselves instead the firm invested alongside and sometimes in other funds it's a fund of fund strategy uh a feature

that is now being treated as a vulnerability investors asked to pull the equivalent of 14 percent

of its biggest fund in the first quarter Wall Street skeptics who long question cliff waters growth are now calling it a canary in the coal mine and a turd ducking of problems turd ducking of problems that is such a weird phrase um nespit's ability quality quality fears will be a test of his funds and the industry's future they calling it a slew out in the coal mine it's something like that no I'm just joking of course blue alcapped private credit fund redeemsions

okay at at 5 percent after steep request levels this was the other news oh from this morning

“I think that something like uh 21 percent redemption request outstanding during the first quarter”

so they had to cap it at 5 percent well you know what this guy did before he started a what 50 billion dollar private credit fund he was a grave digger i'm not sure yeah he grew up near Rochester New York he worked as a grave digger in high school he spent a quarter century at Wall Street associate's consulting for pension funds on private equity and hedge funds nespit was uh a soft spoken presence in a big been a business of outside outsized egos uh says Greg Williams in a

long time pension fund executive he didn't preach like others William said he spoke about his clients needs in 2004 nespit started cliffwater after the 2008 2009 financial crisis he began recommending private credit just as banks were pulling back from lending to risk your companies giving blackstone aries and others the opportunity to make high interest rate loans nespit became a private credit advocate cliffwater launching index tracking performance

the firm shared research and nespit wrote two books on the topic in 2019 he shifted to managing money launching cliffwater corporate lending fund or CC LFX with Blake and Phil Hasbrook a then 30 year old executive they they marketed to wealthy individuals through independent financial advisors the kind of clients hasbrook worked with it was built as an interval fund offering to buy back five percent of its assets each quarter from investors and provide daily updates on its value

it charged lower fees than some rivals and allowed clients to avoid the messy tax filing requirements of traditional private funds uh by February the net assets total about 33 billion cliffwater made

375 million in fees from the fund in the first 18 months that ended in September a 54 person

crew researched and managed the portfolio of 4,100 or so underlying loans along the way cliffwater wrangled with rivals when an executive bond powerhouse pinco when an executive at bond powerhouse pinco said the returns of private debt didn't compensate investors for its growing dangers nespit sent investors a letter saying pinco had had a failed track record of predicting market changes after JB diamond uh used a cockroach analogy to warn about looming defaults nespits declared

there were no cockroaches in private debt others criticized cliffwater's marketing especially when it boasted of hedge fund like returns with minimal risk citing industry metrics like sharp ratios and standard deviation critics of private loans rarely change hands so they lack the volatility that funds face anyway he goes into the drug and problem well speaking of jamey diamond the axio show jamey diamond eyes post jpe morgan media venture he's potentially launching a podcast

is that what this is Matthew zeitland front of the show former guest says the desire to post is the only force in the universe that holds a candle to compound interest it's actually true everyone needs a pod people have been talking about him running for president lot of presidents and media people have podcast well there there isn't all that much news here but diamond said that if

“he were to start a media venture it would be something different about policy he said i think media”

is critical media teaches everybody media is the great influencer a lot of bad policy he believes

stems from people in the media doing a bad job of explaining issues and so we talked about this yesterday or the day before uh in the Wall Street Journal he has uh the the the the the new plan the diamond plan for the the the American dream wanting to lend a more small businesses that seems more important than ever in the world where you have a one person one billion dollar business more people should have shots on goal and if you if you think about the the twenty thousand

dollars that that gentleman was able to marshal to get the business off the ground if you

when Jamie diamond but launches his show should we over to Apple should we i think it's time they

“really dominated this entire week i mean it's spring break which is perfect timing this must have”

and think probably plan the plan the years ago they knew the 50th would be during spring break in 2026 yeah and so it would be a good time to you know really celebrate the anniversary yeah we had a great great conversation with any cue yesterday you can go listen to it on Apple podcasts which he created and uh but there's more reflections and and uh and stories about Apple from all over the place Ben Thompson wrote a great uh retrospective of the Wall Street Journal got access

to uh rare Apple archives that even Tim Cook hadn't seen before it's very cool because and you think about it's like that's crazy he's the CEO should know all the archives but then you think about like how busy his day is and he probably doesn't have that much time to just like go

reminisce that never every small decision or prototype yeah there's like so much work to be done

he doesn't have that much time to go look at like the original patent for the Apple 2 or whatever he uh you know is in that archive so the Wall Street Journal took the the viewers through that in the video uh we have a big read from the financial times here that's very interesting uh talking about the roots of a tech revolution so Winston Churchill called it quote the most daring and courageous act of the entire war on August 30th 1945 general Douglas MacArthur landed in at sugi southwest

of tokyo he wore aviator sunglasses a corn cob pipe dangled from his lips and he was unarmed a man of war was arriving to make peace over the next six years of allied occupation MacArthur would demilitarize Japan and franchise women in by the way you know you guys know uh agi will be very close when Tyler is smoking a corn cob pipe yes self because agi of course should be able to one shot uh you know any sort of long issues that might come from

using a corn cob pipe yeah so in my some people skip sunscreen other people you know indulge in 2012 I lived in a hacker house in sunny veil and the best engineer I still one of the best engineers I met in my entire life the best engineer in the house uh was completely straight edge would not drink or use caffeine or anything but he would smoke a literal pipe because a very odd thing and he just had not a lindy it's like yeah I don't know it was like yeah I just enjoy this even

I would actually expect it to make a comeback right um people are you know a little nostalgic right it's clear that vapes or maybe not something that uh people should be using that the corn cob pipe yeah who knows there's a chance Tyler what do you think about

“corn cob pipes yeah super lindy I think I'm you're in yeah I think you're like we're probably like”

one one or two models away and then yeah start ripping pipe I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it um so over the next 60 years he in franchise women over saw the writing of a new constitution

and a decree of democracy but first he faced a more prosaic problem Japan's communication

industry was in such shambles that he could barely issue commands this is MacArthur solving this challenge turned out to have enormous consequences not only reshaping Japan in the 1940s but upending global manufacturing in the 1980s and by the 2000s revolutionized handle in the drawbacks as Gandalf max. Revolutionized in the way products would be built at Apple a company that did not exist at the time so Apple which turns 50 years old on Wednesdays arguably the

world's most iconic company it is also notoriously opaque and secretive in virtually all accounts of how Steve Jobs transformed Apple from near bankruptcy in 1997 which we talked about yesterday that he cue to the world's most valuable company by his death in 2011 product vision and design all get the credit but what actually makes a $1200 iPhone possible at global scale with vanishingly few defects is a manufacturing philosophy that traces back not to Silicon Valley or southern

China but to war devastated Japan and it took all my energy yesterday to not use the 20 minutes we had with that he cue for for kind of like a tech support session yeah I'm having this issue where you

“seem to be having like particularly I actually need it like return the iPhone I think you are”

having some weird issue because there are weird UX UI issues that you can learn and adapt and change it I would say that they are skill issues like if you can't use the the camera roll effectively by now you are needing to like you're lost yeah you should just throw off some stuff to figure

or the phone app I just get a blank white screen and then the app crashes like a bunch of times you have something weird and then I just doesn't matter what I do I can do a hard reset or anything like that I wonder if we were pushing it to the limit too hard yesterday because we were on a face time call together and then also watching the Artemis to launch on YouTube and then I was

“I was watching it on my phone and I was streaming jordy my screen via share play and I think”

that might have the phone was really hot I can tell you that much I don't know anyway buy and large the products are flawless and I have enjoyed my Apple journey the whole way so in the in the

decades after the Second World War Japan's economy grew rapidly this is a story of how ideas

travel across oceans and factory floors and sometimes through a single person changing jobs it is a story about how America invented a manufacturing philosophy exported to Japan for God it re-learned fragments of it through a handful of companies and then re-exported the whole synthesis to Asia the story leads us to the present moment with the U.S. spending vast sums to bring it all back so they're India investing to be the next global tech hub and China fighting to hold on

to its manufacturing dominance it is above all a story underscoring that what Apple started to build in

“San Jen, China, a quarter century ago is not merely an assembly line it is the endpoint of a multi-decade chain of”

civilizational transport a feat of enormous complexity that cannot be replicated with tax breaks in China or ribbon cutting in Texas tax breaks aren't going to be enough you need civilizational knowledge transfer the whole chain begins with a question in occupied Tokyo a 33-year-old engineer named Homer Sarasone stood before a group of Japanese executives asked why does any company exist

powerful when the telegram arrived from general MacArthur Sarasone initially thought it was a prank

a physicist by training the pair trooper turned radar engineer was working on a transcontinental microwave relay system this is Tyler the physicist by training the podcaster that's last five coder it's true he dismissed it only realizing his air when when the indignant colonel called him back a few weeks later then he was due to the due to flee off to Tokyo for what was supposed to be a nine month stint Sarasone's mission was to re-establish and rehabilitate the communications

industry but he found there was nobody to work with american bombers had devastated industry and MacArthur had abolished the zibatsu the powerful pre-war corporate cartels we had to start from scratch he recounted in 1988 when we looked around not only did we see no facilities but we could buy no managers we had no we had to find lower level people second level managers and I said as of today you're going to start up this new company and you're going to run it the quality of manufacturing

in Japan was shot even before the war but as Sarasone began learning the language and immersing himself in Japanese culture he realized the route of the problem was not technical it was managerial when he asked a group of employees how they might improve quality they murmured among themselves about what an answer would please him rather than answering directly sort of the opposite like the Elon walking the floor and like I'd want to get to first principles they're literally like

what what what do you think he wants to hear what what what when will this plant be online

“yeah I think he's expecting it in in June telling you lie yeah this is not not good”

everyone understands this now but that was not the case in in Japan in the 40s and 50s I suppose they had been taught to be deferential he concluded to not not to question authority so Sarasone set out to teach them a philosophy of management despite initial opposition from MacArthur the need for economic stabilization meant that Sarasone got his wish he and another engineer Charles Protsman went off to an Osaka hotel for a month to write a textbook on industrial

management they designed a rigorous eight-week course and made it compulsory for top managers the seminar began on the importance of quality as quote a guiding state of mind a devotion and dedication after asking why does any company exist Sarasone encouraged his disciples to draft a mission statement by invoking a motto from a shipyard in Newport Rhode Island we shall build good

ships here at a profit if we can at a loss if we must but always good ships it's a good line

that's a good line good line manufacturing he taught had to be considered a total system it's it's disparate parts orchestrated with such repetitive precision that defects could approach

enterprise empowering workers close to production and telling managers they needed to understand the details quality control is not a bandaid Sarasone later recounted to be effective as as a control the total process to which it is applied must be well designed to begin with so in Sarasone left Japan in 1950 he recommended his successor be the academic W. Edward Edward's Deming an advocate

of statistical process controls let's give it up first statistical let's also give up for

using the first initial of your first name and then your middle name that's an under we that's sort of a lost art you don't meet a lot of people that cover of all ourselves that way

“but J. Alexander Kugin I think that sounds pretty cool maybe I'll rip that at some point”

well that sounds very regal yeah sounds good well what would you be type B. J. J. Tyler Cosgrove that's good yeah because Tyler's the middle name so J. Tyler that's good okay well J. W. Edward's Deming would prove so influential that the union of Japanese scientists and engineers when it says sometimes I get emotional about manufacturing screw yeah that is their good chips that the ship's quote is so is so good I'm sure it's already been printed

and hung on many of the new defense tech and American manufacturing companies but it is a good

reminder to always build what is of high quality and aim for profit but you have since this

chat is on fire today of course it's great to see we love all of you here someone asked how are we gonna celebrate I think we're gonna have lunch with the team later yeah excited about

“that yeah we're excited for that but I but I think funny thing is just really our lives aren't”

changing its businesses usual we're gonna go hang out with our families and I'm I'm already excited for next week we we do have a holiday tomorrow the it's good Friday so the New York Stock Exchange is closed the market is closed and so we will not be streaming tomorrow but we will be back on Monday but just so you're aware don't be shocked oh like this this opening idea will happen and then they stop dreaming that's not what's going on this has been on the calendar for a

long time we haven't been booking guests for for months because we know that this is a holiday coming up which we are very excited about and everyone will be enjoying the long weekend so Sarah's own recommended the work to of Joseph Jron consultant who during the war had managed a program shipping war materials to allenations Jron's work in Japan would go on to earn him the highest honor from emperor here hero hito we don't have a ton of time I want to tie this into

apple yeah let's let's go I just go on since saying tangent we used to do crazy long reads where it's been like two hours like one New York article and then of course the the show got much more complex we talk about a lot more topics but I like I like I like going

“through a long read but of course you can pick this up in the financial times which you should”

go and subscribe to so Alex has how long did the acquisition take from start to finish I don't remember have the exact number of days but it was incredibly incredibly quick yeah and you know part of what enabled that was we had been having people from open AI show having interactions with them we had spent a hundred hours talking about open AI I didn't have like you know we didn't have a lot of questions on them yeah and you know just just given how much time we've spent

and so that that enabled a quick process also you know your your long history with Sam yeah I think this like you gave you guys quite like years before yeah in this case 13 years before that's great okay uh where where where where where where where where where we got to close this it was the early 1990s when we were flashing forward and jobs was a half a decade into leading

next the start-up that he had founded after being ousted from apple next first product a cube

state workstation from costing six thousand five hundred dollars had already been a much hype flop the teams school it's a good I've been to make a computer their friends could afford by the time it shipped the joke goes the only friends that could afford to buy were Steve's Japanese quality ideas have been all the rage for a decade the superior already of Japanese production had become a clear had become clear in March 1980 when Richard W. Anderson

a Hewlett Packard executive famously discovered that the best Japanese memory chips performed one thousand percent better than their American equivalents at initial inspection and fifty percent better over time the so-called Anderson bombshell made HP start to obsess over quality its Japanese joint venture uh Hewlett Packard yokegawa one the Deming Prize in 1982

to improve quality tenfold within a decade and when that looked to be failing and adopted a

“Japanese step-by-step approach to quality known as planned do check act let's see where else”

jobs was clearly taken by the ideas of qualities of qualities silicon valley was beginning to import from Japan having set out to build a computer company that would create better products he commissioned an automated factory in freemont inspired by the plans of Japanese electronics manufacturer alps electric um anyways we can we can continue but um but um we have our next we have our next guess mark lord joining in just a few minutes uh let's run through some of the timeline post

yeah this was cool Taylor Taylor Johnson said nothing gets me hyped like a re-excelerating topline is that official or is that a company right sharing uh sharing uh or or just a founder mode company yeah but really both you can see um this is data from Sakura yeah uh Sakura shared mm-hmm so funny people uh calling me right now i know i know if you have called me if you have some participants or live i'm

“sorry i will get back to you yeah uh after the show you know they don't know love but anyways”

incredible chart here you can see uh platted ended they in 2023 they went from uh 308 to

390 million they are and then jumped up to uh over half a billion in 2025 so Zach and the team are on an absolute tear you're also an absolute tear Taylor Lerrand's apparently she spends 17 hours a day in screen time i guess that means phone but maybe phone and computer she has to spend a lot of time because she's defending big technology exactly uh there's some incredible quotes in this story as she said if she could put the screen in her brain she would

that's a vile that's a very unexplained she's got to get got to get set up with the nerling team but yeah me a true timeline merchant yes yes it's exactly uh uh well yeah extremely online is her there's the name of her book and she certainly lives uh lives her brand uh aliens are you to kowsky had an interesting post here he said today i learned that gem and i clawed and

chachi bt but not grock are told that today he was referring to march first April Fool's Day

yesterday is march 30 second because if you tell LLM's it's April 1st the conditional text predictions downstream become less i less reliable for obvious training data set reasoning models like okay understanding April 1st yeah it's how do i understand it would be very very confusing i mean we were confused all yesterday because you see so many news announcements go out and you're like is this a joke there isn't it but if you told it's April 30 second

“or march or second like you should be more confused you're gonna be like that's that's clearly wrong”

yeah i wonder how real this yeah you would think they would just keep it march 30th or something yeah i don't know we'll see well to ask some people uh ruins says the AI doc reminded me mostly of kony 2012 documentary slacktivism selling the feeling of we need to do something as a product oddly centering the filmmaker uh when is the embargo lifting for the high dock because i did see it with Tyler and a bunch of other folks from the team uh and enjoyed it but i would love to talk

about it i believe we're gonna have the i think it already came out it came out yeah uh 27 yeah yeah it was interesting it was the the the biggest gap between the the the the AI doc and his his like you know the press tour that the creator is on now is that uh he seems like he doesn't believe AI is is real at all i guess he he he he was very worried about doom in the in the movie comes away sort of like oh there's an optimistic scenario here it's a very nice ending

but then uh he came away being like ah this stuff is not real which is a very funny like conclusion because he's not really asking about any of the financials or economics or business applications like he's having a much more philosophical debate and then same away with like a financial conclusion i don't know is it interesting yeah uh this google has released jama four jama four models in the world for their respective sizes

demas has excited to launch jama four available in four sizes that can be fine tuned for your

specific test uh 31 billion dance for great raw performance 26b moe for low latency and effective

two-be and four-be for edge device use happy building excited to see uh what people do with it they're available now under the Apache license and google AI studio or on hugging base and some other platforms uh so massive launch um what else do we got uh there's more on the Mercore leak very unfortunate carries and it says incredible amount of state of the art training

billions of value in a major national security issue yeah i'm just feeling i'm feeling you know

“that the national security issue is one thing i'm feeling really concerned for individuals that”

not only gave PI as part of onboarding but maybe now there's like live video of them tied to that PI I said feels like there's some real deep-fake risk i'm very glad that we have add a mires from crowd strike coming on today to explain the surface area what the trends are in cybersecurity because things do feel like they are ramping up significantly um very also just very odd that there is uh there's now a leak of of data that could be used to our all models

there's new open source models there's also the leak of the of the cloud code harness and so you we if you piece all these together you get pretty close to the frontier and uh that's something that we're certainly going to have to like contend with the fact that uh there's that every time that there's a leak yeah you probably shrink the gap between the frontier and the open source

“uh community uh a few but by maybe a few months or something as they catch up even if they're”

doing it like sort of above board uh anyway uh Lewis Lewis says he found a public company

with 99% of revenue coming from one customer you've heard of the one employee one billion dollar

company now we found it the one customer one billion dollar company actually don't know how big this company is but um yeah we need to figure out what company this is this is TSS Inc okay the ticker's TSS I they said we derive a substantial majority of our revenues from a single OEM customer revenues from this customer comprised approximately 99 99 and 96% of our total revenues for the year ending uh December 21st 2025 2024 in 2023 so they actually had more revenue uh diversity in 2023

and then the revenue concentration increased over the last two years uh although we provide services across multiple business units and divisions of this OEM and have entered into a long-term AI rack integration agreement that includes minimum monthly payments are overall financial performance remains highly dependent on the continuation and scope of this relationship well you know yeah and they're there trading uh very reasonably there at something like at $240 million

at run rate as of Q4 at a market cap of like 366 million okay so yeah it's price on named seems to be priced in yes um buco says imagine being a software company with like 250 thousand customers one billion of revenue growing 20% and the market sets your worth 3.5 billion and then rigatoni

computing has generously five customers and basically no revenues worth four and a half billion

it's a cold world i don't know yeah i mean this is the this is the the reality of like working on a on a sci-fi technology is that if it works the value is really really big yeah

“essentially prepared remarks says but those five customers might go to six so you have to get”

in before that uh what is uh what's going on with Scott Wears uh based act did you see this probably the most radical bill ever to degrade tech products it bands Amazon Prime stops iPhones from having facetime strips travels shopping local and AI results out of google search results this feels like a stunt almost i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i don't know it must be yes i know this feels like something that's like sort of being misinterpreted almost i don't

Adam we had to add an update to the chamber okay progress his group he said the base to act is likely the most radical proposal to regulate and direct technology product design ever advanced in California um legislature that bill dictates how core products must function from search results to app stores kind of e-commerce marketplaces well we have our next guest in the waiting room let's bring in mark lore from wonder how are you doing mark good to meet you yeah yeah you're doing

guys thank you so how's it going to the time uh sorry we couldn't give you much warning or our news uh it's kind of a wild wild day over here i just saw it congratulations yeah thank you i'm sure i'm sure we can get into m and a war stories and whatnot whatever you want to talk about but uh why don't you uh since the first time in the show sort of take us back in history and give us a little uh little background on yourself for for the viewers yes sure um yeah

start a current in uh investment banking and then uh in the late nineties did a first start-up sold it to top debase for a card company then started uh site with dot com okay um and then sold

that to Amazon in 2011 yeah um $50 million and then uh working side Amazon for a couple of

that to to uh Walmart for $3 billion and then uh became the CEO that's why they call them the

“Lebron James of e-commerce but it's on the wiki uh became the CEO of Walmart's e-commerce business”

and uh did that for about four and a half years yeah yeah now i'm the founder and CEO of wonder yeah a food tech startup maybe take us back to diapers dot com uh i'd i'd love to know like how you were thinking about that business when you started it was was there a thesis that sort of vertical-focused e-commerce was was going to be a trend what was the ecosystem like what was the competitive landscape we're vc saying like where did you just snap a great domain and

think i got to make some money even yeah yeah how much of a organic versus the way it started I was just searching on google what search terms people was searching for a lot and uh doing it at night searching searching would tell you how many times with search and I saw it didn't even have so that did they even have like google trends at that point or you just

“had to search and they had they would show you there's a lexa i think what's called a lexa”

maybe or something you can you know type in a search term and it would tell you how many times we searched on google yeah and uh diapers i remember it was 200 thousand times a month and so i went online and i saw the price of diapers was like $10 more expensive and i thought i mean i had a baby at the time it was a pain to go get diapers why don't diapers deliver like everything else like books and all this other stuff and i thought yeah diapers dot com you know and that

was actually money hundred diapers started because i couldn't afford the diapers dot com domain yeah so the 1 800 there must have been a moment where like the 1 800 was like more expensive than the dot com though and that's it it was a flip at some point oh yeah it was very didn't it like when i was there it was very cheap it was like you know i don't know just trends of thousands

whereas the diapers dot com was like a half a million or something so what was it like building

an e-commerce website back then like we i mean we just we just uh read a story about a one person or i guess two people company uh two person company that's at a billion dollars in revenue and that feels unthinkable but like what was the team like were you rocking servers did there's a club of racking servers yeah wasn't there nothing was in the cloud was just you know eventually transition to it but yeah no it was servers in the server closet and yeah we had you know designers

you know designing the website and building it out and like it was yeah old school and then uh i mean how how were you thinking about fulfillment vertical integration what you want to do what you don't want to do early on with that journey i mean that the we had very little capital so everything was you know uh hand to mouth it was we would sell diaper online a box of diaper online for let's say $40 and then we go to the wholesale club and buy it for $42 and ship it to

the customer no way so it's like that anything so we're actually losing money on every and every box we sold and then uh and then what what was the uh the integration with Amazon like at the time where was Amazon as a business where was the vision what was the what was the thesis and like the what you saw was was going on at Amazon like why was it an exciting opportunity yeah so i mean it's totally that was not was actually crushing it in 2005 when we started diaper stock combat they

were mass they weren't focused anyone category wasn't a great experience like if you're like me a new parent going on to Amazon and wanting to buy like your stuff for your baby you're like all over the place it wasn't a great experience um the diapers were actually more expensive on Amazon than in the store as they just weren't they weren't getting the this sort of whole diaper thing and uh saw an angle to create a specialty site that focused just on that vertical

everything the parents want everything they need on one spot um and it was really lucky you know we also um we're able to ship the diapers and all this stuff out of the same fulfillment center with two-day delivery um which wasn't being done on Amazon at the time in that category yeah

“and is that more important is that more important in that particular category because”

parents need diapers for the kids it's a more urgent like it's it's a fact like where you might wait for a book or you might wait for a TV or something yeah yeah exactly you replaced I wanted it at a diapers I need them tomorrow you know that sort of thing so um definitely I also think there's a lot of you buy and I like a lot of different things and it's expensive to ship them from multiple warehouses so wanting to get them all the same box yeah like getting the wipes the diapers

the baby formula you know bottles and things like everything the same box is they're low margin

yeah and so it's too expensive to ship them separately but we will also the first ones to

Kiva Robotics yeah we were the first ones to use robotics in the warehouse and again

all all the name of the margins alone we have to we have to figure out how to automate we create this software that told the people in the warehouse exactly how to put everything in the box so we can get all the things in the smallest box possible sure because FedEx a lot of times would charge you for the box size yeah and so we tried to like we had 23 different box sizes so like we were very advanced when it came to the logistics and trying to pull

costs out of the system yeah and what what uh what elements of the internet boom like what are the ways in which the internet boom feels similar to the AI boom and and how does it feel different

“I think it feels very I think feels very similar um I mean certainly um you know just there's”

people on both sides of the fence this is good this is bad but it's gonna do like a lot of uncertainty yeah we were looking back on on how people all the fears people that had about the internet are almost mirrored one to one with AI look every single one kind of matches up um you know the job displacement why two years why two you know why two k things like that uh it's pretty remarkable how how humans fear the internet in the exact same way as humans fear everything you

go back to when they uh trains okay yeah I don't know if you guys you know that was a lot of train when trains were things they strongly advise people not to go on trains because at that speed they don't have a long term effects it'll have on your brain and they told pregnant women do not go on a train if you're pregnant whoa because of the same reason like any industrial

events that's ever taking place in history there's always an incredible amount of fear yeah I know

yeah it's fascinating uh can you uh tell me about the process of uh the idea for jet dot com

“it it when I remember that process happening and it felt like okay at this point you know with”

diapers dot com like there's a niche there's a there's a landing zone like it makes so much sense it's complimentary to Amazon jet dot com felt much more like okay this is like a direct competitor was that the correct framing were you thinking about that were you just thinking there needed to be more options in the market that could differentiate what was your thought process going into launching jet dot com yeah I think I think there's just a massive market and there was no number

two to Amazon and we had an angle you know Amazon at the time was you know shipping stuff from multiple warehouses it was very inefficient from a logistics standpoint they were burning a lot of money but they had no competition so they could do it and the idea was very simple let's empower people and teach them how to shop smarter so that they can save money and so we built this smart

“cart technology where you know when you started adding items into your basket it would reduce”

the prices of the items that could be fulfilled from the same warehouse in the same box for as an incentive to get people to save money because if you shipped an item from two different warehouses you had to pay you know at least $5 per shipment yeah and if you shipped it in the from the same warehouse the marginal cost of ship might be 15 cents and so that was the idea of teaching people had a shop smarter to save money and yeah what was the fundraising environment

like throughout that throughout that time it's like you know you're going up against Amazon during this time it's been trying to raise money in 2001 there's been a 15 some really tough years I've been doing all been raising money now for 30 years I've done probably as many venture capital for pictures and months you know probably over over a thousand pitches these the link now over over the career but the fundraising has changed in our early days of diversity of

common if you were to raise a hundred million dollars that was like a huge deal yeah and and then

today you know it's raising billions tens of billions you know very different environment today but that then it was is much harder to get private capital what drew you to food we had we had Travis Calenic on a few weeks ago and and we were sort of joking around is like you do if you've done food feels like the hardest possible you know massive opportunity but it's like probably the hardest food tech probably one of the hardest categories and so if you've mastered you know

at scale logistics and these you know incredibly you know capital intensive things like e-commerce or rideshare it feels like the final frontier and incredible challenge but what what brought you

e-commerce and I felt like you know it's a restaurant sector was right for technological disruption

“and restaurants haven't changed fundamentally in a hundred years it's still capital intensive labor”

heavy difficult to scale and their their places and we wanted to challenge that and ask the question what if restaurants weren't placed what if restaurants would just ideas what if you can build a restaurant and scale it across a network like software without any incremental capital or incremental labor with robotics in the back end and if we're able to do that then we're able to bring you know make great food more accessible we can bring restaurants to places that

currently don't have access at time to the day that don't have access and at price points that are really unfathomable today that was really the sort of the thinking there and you know we managed to today in 2500 square feet have 25 unique restaurants across 20 different types of cuisines everything from a high-end body-flaste steak the Jose Andreas to barbecue burgers Chinese Mexican Italian Middle Eastern fried chicken pizza all in 125 hundred square foot kitchen

with no gas all electric no open flames with very lightly trained labor so it's very systematized yeah and we see a future where we'll have a thousand or more unique restaurants offering out of the same 2500 square foot kitchen yeah and so why oh yeah have you read any of those like old stories about the automats in 1950s have you heard of this it's like this

“restaurant I think it was in New York and basically there was like a wall of cubbies”

where the food would be prepared in the back and then you would just sort of open the cubby and take your food and there was no interaction and they were like see they were Harold is like the

future in sci-fi but they never really took off in like the 50s I guess and I was wondered about like

how important is the the the online interaction like the delivery point because there's been a number of attempts to make like robotic restaurants work but it feels like if people are going to a restaurant they want a particular experience but if they're ordering food online they want they're okay with a different experience and I'm wondering how how separate those are even though we think of them as like it's the same name it's you know this pizza place in person or this pizza place in

in on delivery they're actually maybe much more different experiences and like and like

“experiences delivery like what the value prop is yeah we're I mean we're focused it's primarily”

delivery first of 70% of revenues delivery about 25% is pickup okay and then less than 5% is sit down so we have 10 to 20 seats sure in the front so it's like it looks like a high-end fast casual with front but it's a pretty small fun of house yeah but being vertically integrated so we blocked up so we own the delivery okay we own and we also own all the restaurants so we own all the restaurants we do the cooking we built all the technology and so the vertical integration combined with

the very tight delivery radius yeah allows us to offer an incredible experience like fast

they're more on time hot of food great quality and of course everyone in the family could order from a from a different restaurant and it all gets cooked and delivered at the same time and we can do that in expert event even rural areas where restaurants can't typically go and that's one of the advantages of the model and then recently we just added drone delivery in Jersey and that'll be a big part of the of next year is that flying or or road going with wheels I'm sorry flying flying

and who did you guys partner did you fully verticalize yes full the no no we we're part of the couple different yeah but but we're alive you can order from drone but I can you Jersey in this one location and what are the what are the challenges with doing prepared food delivery via drone like I've seen some of these videos where a package will fall you know 10 feet out of the sky and and obviously that's not going to work if you're ordering ordering a nice meal that's

certainly yeah it comes out to tether and very gently puts it on the ground but the advantage is no tips it's more on time you can service a bigger area and then you could also deliver to if you're on a boat on a lake on a beach or field you could be camping so the idea of being able to deliver it to the point as opposed to somebody's residence is really cool and it's really at an inflection point now I know we've been talking drones for 10 years but when we

go to taxes next year we fully expect half of our deliveries to be done via drone wow just to come yeah we've had we've had Keller from sibling on a number of times and it you we've

that go for it how have you approached everything on the supply chain side actually because I imagine some of that is out of your control but that you know you need your heavily relying on those inputs no matter how good your whole technology stack and processes the foods got to arrive

at at each of these kitchens that is absolutely most important I'm glad you call that out we have

you know 40 culinary engineers on staff we just hired a Victoria who's the head of global supply chain at Cisco Foods so we have a 700 ingredient library we source everything from a number of different perverts it brings it to our distribution center and then from distribution center every day when we replenish every location today we have 118 locations on the next year we'll have 400 so drone going very fast wow but the food quality is so it would never I'm assuming it would never

“have worked to work with third party like food distributors like you need to control it sent you”

can have them come into the central hub but you need to actually understand one of the special stuff you have everything from pizza dough to barbecue to suveed steaks to vet like everything comes from a different supplier in some cases come manufacture but yeah the food quality is is

is most important but the 700 ingredient library is fixed all the equipment is fixed think of that

as like a data center once you have the the data center and piping in the ground anybody can create a restaurant using the platform and launch it across instantaneously across all locations so at the end of this year we're launching one to create where anybody in the world with just an AI prompt can create their own restaurant and launch it across all wonder locations for $10

“a month so we think it's going to fundamentally change how to do so so yeah walk walk me through this”

I come in I want to prompt I start prompting or even just typing out what I want to make and then your guys are based using robotics are you can just make it on the fly like what is the lead time yeah so you actually like open up the floodgates here like how how limited this number yeah in December you will be able to go to wonder create homepage and say create me a fast casual Mexican concept for Gen Z and that's a hit create then AI will brand your restaurant name it

give your couple options do all the images do all the recipes write the descriptions price everything do all the health information create your entire restaurant in under a minute you can decide to publish it in all wonder locations for $10 a month instantaneously and now you're alive to potentially

$20 million people next year you can push it on door-to-edge Uber and grubbub if you want as well

and then you own the restaurant you price it you own it it's live and if you're an intern you guys you have sorry you're doing a revenue share back with the with the creator or how does how does that work yeah you just basically the creator would pay us for food and pay us for robotic time so plug in let's see you created a fast gas or Mexican concept it would plug into our infinite bowl machine that we acquired from

“sweet cream the infinite bowl machine would make your bowl important your recipe and then we would actually”

print your packaging on demand to match your logo so you're fully in business you don't need to do anything you can be live in a matter of minutes with your new restaurant and then we're next year launching an automated sauce machine the infinite sauce machine which has 130 raw ingredients and can make 80% of all sauce recipes on the internet on demand 500 sauces an hour so you can also create around sauce recipe your own dressing your own whatever sauce you want on these on these bowls

that are made from the infinite bowl machine so that's that's sort of all it's all gonna live in this year yeah I mean you're you're describing a very a very broad vision for the type of food that can be delivered and made uh walk me through the like the level of robotic automation because you walk into a place that toast bagels and they have a machine it's sort of robotic that will like move the bagels down and toast it or the pizza goes through the oven and then you and then we see

pitches all the time from humanoid robotics companies where it's operating a toaster that's not automated at all but the but the robot is moving and it's fully humanoid what is actually useful where are we in the deployment of this what like what uh robotic uh form factors are actually moving the needle and driving value now so okay so where we are today yeah we have conveyors in every location that we have again no open flames all electric cooking platform sure um one

robotic arm picks it off okay and puts it into the right uh bagging lane so like that is that is the extent of the robotics today yeah but the robotic machine the infinite bowl machine we bought from sweet green is live in 32 sweet greens it makes all the salads and all the bowls

“without any human intervention the only thing you have to do is put the ingredients in the machine”

but the bowl is beautifully made it turns the bowl neatly puts the ingredients in the bowl and there's no human labor pulling out 25 points of labor um on making those bowls and the

bowl machine can do 500 bowls an hour it can do 13 million in revenue and 300 square feet

incredible piece of machinery this great team from spice robotics the 34 MIT engineers have been Boston are now working for us and they're building the sauce machine the sauce machine will go live early next year and working on an infinite beverage machine that could make basically any drink you know in a coffee shop or cold brew concept all the foaming layering blending that machine will also go live next year so we're layering on the automation and then in the middle of next

year we're launching an automatic retrieval system where all it has a cold storage of frozen and

“ambient and everything's stored in there so if you order wings it will automatically pick the wings”

and send them to the friar and then the person just puts them in the friar in the future the friar will be automated but that's kind of like where we are today and where we're going next year but we envision yeah go for it we envision and they're not to just in future be able to generate

20 million of revenue at a 25 hundred square feet with with only 15 people operating that 20

million in revenue so your labor cost is a small percentage your your your rent is a tiny percentage and we're able to make a 50 percent full one margin which we're going to take that extra margin and put a lot of it back in the price so we'd expect prices to come down and be deflationary over time and it's consistent with our mission of just making great food more accessible price point yeah for really food ever been deflationary it just feels like it all it all if forever it just

goes up and up and up I wanted to get your thoughts on humanoid robotics specifically in a restaurant context I I'm guessing I already know what you think but but what's yes we don't use any humanoid robot so I think I understand now I mean more like diffusion do you think that do you think a humanoid form factor will ever be productive in a commercial kitchen or are these kind of like the spoke systems like you've created gonna dominate I mean I think definitely short term what we're doing

is is sort of like first principle thinking on this stuff like the humanoid robots going into a kitchen that exists oh there's a fire this is what you do you put the fries in the basket the basket down the

“basket up the basket over we like to rethink and think why do you need to do that that way why can't”

you just create a fire that has a conveyor and the conveyor goes through the fire and fries it along the way so you don't need to put anything in a basket and take it out of the basket like that sort of that sort of thinking I do think there's some things that can't be automated and be a long time before we could ever automate it like assembling a burger or rolling a burrito if a humanoid is able to roll a burrito or or assemble a burger we'd be very interested in in that and we would

look at it if doesn't seem like anything that's gonna happen in the in the very short term but I'm

always open to now everything you think is not possible today you know could be possible yeah

we're we're asking a humanoid founder about what we're calling Diet Coke Bench how effectively how effectively can a humanoid open open a Diet Coke if it's simple but probably not too not too easy yeah I'm wondering about your vision for the future of like restaurant brands generally because if like will we get to a point where I can go and prompt or design a specific meal and if I want buffalo wings put on pizza and as fold into a cow's own deep like all as long as I'm using the tools

that are within one facility will I be able to just create something that's essentially a one of one meal that is to my exact specifications and actually be direct to consumer yes you'll be able to create your own restaurant I guess the way you want yeah and go direct to consumer so we envision a future where they're not only influences create a restaurant but every college student can have their own cold group concept a high school student can have their own you know salad or Mexican concept

we envision and they're not to just in future there are tens of thousands of salad concepts in the

it won't fall in the way this today it's fascinating but you're basically taking franchising and bringing it online and franchising in a way has been so successful because you're giving people a system and a proven product but in this case you're not asking for them to take on you know hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars of debt to set up these ten dollars a month

that's all it is it's kind of awesome on well thank you incredible it's just very you guys

what are you hiring for right now I made a cross the board but we're we're kind of you know big open visit a lot of positions in robotics it engineering so you know we've got over a thousand engineers on staff but we can't seem to to get enough so yeah if you're listening reach out amazing well thank you so great to meet you Mark for taking the time to have us you got to then that's all it followed your career yeah same hands I was built on your camera's company in 2012

and I was like yeah this is the little problem so thank you for everything you've done for the yeah it was good to see you guys yeah we'll have to create a TV again thank you thank you yeah thank you love it goodbye there was something that you wanted to pull up Jordi what should we pull up for those here from Rat King or friend over icey or times yes tech reporter what's he said he wrote he wrote a profile on us yes he was able to get a screenshot actually from our

contract okay with opening eye and he says interesting as part of negotiation with open a ITBPN as a commitment to editorial independence written into the contract which states of following TBPN retains full control over its daily program programming editorial decisions guest selection and production schedule TBPN will continue to host a broad range of voices and perspectives which we shared earlier yeah open open stage to talk about whatever whatever you're building

in technology and AI TBPN independently determines its external appearances and commentary open eye will not control TBPN's planning materials or working documents opening I will not provide direction on TBPN's editorial calendar opening I will not influence who TBPN books or what topics it covers again we just talk about so many things oftentimes we're talking about

“topics like on the fly there's breaking news this was incredibly important yeah tell us just more”

fun to have the directors be the host as well yeah so then we're not talking yet so we're just

yeah people have always asked us how do you guys decide who comes on the show or decide

what to talk about and whatever honest truth is we you know it's whatever we're interested in it's always been that way it's super important it's always been important because we have to sit here and talk for three hours every day we've got to be interesting to have to be interesting that's brutal and yeah open eye will not materially alter discontinue or reburned TBPN opening eye does not have rights to TBPN host likeness yeah we specifically have it set up where they

can't even train models not TBPN can't train it on the chat they can't train on anything TBPN related I'm sure other companies train on TBPN already in one way or another but yeah this was

“incredibly important to both teams and I think we got it to a really good place and thanks to”

Mike Isaac for covering it will let's bring in our next guest Adam Myers from CrowdStrike he is the head of counter adversary operations at CrowdStrike and the host of the adversary universe podcast Adam welcome to the show how are you doing adversary's worst nightmare the adversary's worst nightmare

yeah thanks for having me congrats on the acquisition too I was about that earlier amazing awesome

thanks for hopping on a crazy week I imagine it's a extremely crazy week for you can you sort of level set for us is they say really really weird week generally yeah it's interesting because when we had last time we had George on or maybe the time before I was talking is like we haven't had big AI related security for each is to date and not everything that's happened this week can then you know directly tied to AI but it feels like everything is heating up we're seeing more

“of it there's been a couple in the last two weeks of these supply chain attacks and you know I think”

what's clear is that especially with the use of of Quadcode and some of the different agente solutions that are out there people don't know necessarily what these things are downloading what they're loading on their systems I know you guys have talked about like open quad before and things like that and it's just you know the supply chain for software has been an issue for a while and I think it's just escalating right we've seen so many of these over the last week we've seen team

team team PCP doing a few of these and then the most recent one which was a big one tied

understand the ways in which they're they're actually building products and then there's also like

you know feels like a hundred or a thousand times more software just being created too and the combination of those things is what's what's driving this maybe I've been doing a plan with it a lot and it's creating you know you can't even see it as it's running and it's just pulling down MPM libraries and God knows what else from piping and stuff like that so it's just you know who knows what's out there and the other thing is you install these libraries one day and then they become

“evil overnight and you know you have to go back and review everything that you're using yeah can you”

give us a supply chain attack one-on-one some people might be familiar with solar winds that was the last one that really broke through to the mainstream but just how does this work what's the

anatomy of a supply chain attack and then we'll go into how to fight it and why they're on the

rise in particular sure yeah so generally supply chain attacks you know are gonna impact the software supply chain and so in solar winds I actually work that one so I can I can tell you that one was it was pretty special because they got into the CICD environment we're able to actually affect the building of the software so that it was done in a way that nobody really could tell that that had happened what we're seeing these new supply chain attacks is that they're

targeting the developers themselves many of whom probably listen to the show and so it's important to pay attention that they you know they go after your credentials they fish you they get access to

“your logins to things like mpm and pipi and then abuse that and there's a a number of ways they”

can do this with get tags where they can actually you know hide the code and then redirect get to a get tag but effectively what happens you know for the women is that you have software that is dependent on by enterprise applications by open source stacks and they're you know axios was downloaded something like a hundred thousand times per week right so that that could just sense that these things are being used extremely frequently and you know people don't look

at them they don't they don't analyze that code they don't analyze that library they trust it came from mpm it must be good the communities looked at it but those things can be updated at a moment's notice and you don't you don't know what that latest update is unless you review the code yourself yeah okay so on reviewing the code yourself we were debating this the two sides that we were kicking around was maybe the reaction to this is that sure we're not going to write

as much code going for we know that the models are good at writing code but there will be a lot more code reading that goes on and people will just demand that if you're hired as a software engineer that you read every line you you work through the dependencies you are in charge of the code that you ship regardless of whether or not it was generated by an LM or not the other side of it was sort of like maybe the answer to you know bad code bad AI code is more good AI code

and that we will be doing more AI code reviews and that we can actually throw more AI at this problem I imagine the solution somewhere in the middle but how are you wrestling with those two paths

“forward well I think what we're looking at is how do we secure it absent of is somebody”

reviewing the code or not okay and so there's things that you can look for at the endpoint at the security fabric right we we kind of see ourselves as the operating system of security across strike so being able to see that you know the AI agent is writing code and it glutes the library and inside that library you know use this access example there's a chunk of it that's base 64 encoded and it's being you know decoded and instantiated that suspicious behavior

read just if I say that out loud I'm like hey you guys are going to pull that a bunch of base 64 code and then decoded and run it yeah to be like no we're not so you know I think that those things that we can see at the endpoint at the build time we can actually look for that and say okay this is suspicious behavior let's flag this and pay attention to what's happening with this particular thing because you know to your point you could demand everybody read all the

AI slot that they're generating but the reality is that even if they do that they're not

looking at all the libraries that they're using right how many libraries does a standard build have right I mean I've I've been vibe coding for a while and you know who knows what libraries you know you run it and that's the beauty of it right you run it it spits out a bunch of stuff and then it works yeah the reality is nobody's looking at those code bases until something like this happens yeah what what does the what's the the future of security products

crowd strike I I can just imagine a world where more people need security products for open source projects for their personal projects for their personal life like if you have someone who's day job is important but then they're vibe coding they're you know their family calendar at home

and then you know uh sims while I think there's just so many things like really soft soft people have had like relatively high trust with software for the last time right it's like oh it's a google log in and yeah only only this year have I started to be like really question different apps and things like that the people are making because there's a tendency if you're working in tech to like want to try the new thing don't wait and now when something pops up it's actually

kind of a headwind for startups because I think we're probably headed into a lower trust era yeah yeah I think that's part of it I also would point to the people that are building these libraries

“right they need and we've seen this with Chrome plugins too and and browser plugins you need to”

have MFA multiple you know multi-factor authentication on all of your authentication for you know pushing code out to these library bases because you know somebody comes along fishes the developer convinces them to enter you know password for you know drive or or some sort of cloud storage or something like that they take those credentials and then they use that to log in and change the code base so the developers really need to be focused on securing their own accounts and

identity and we've seen you know we release this global threat report a few weeks ago identity you know for a long time endpoint and when crowd strike I've been with crowd strikes since we started back in 2011 endpoint was kind of where the fact of success what a good run what what advice are you giving to developers today that are you know I think everyone that my advice would not be freak out and you know slam your computer into the table

we're going back to paper yeah paper but like what what are the you know yeah two

two factors and obvious one any any other like advice that somebody should basically implement

immediately it will give everybody secure their identity is my job would be a lot easier very like the number one thing that we've seen is identity attacks I mean two years ago we saw the voice-based fishing so threat actors calling up the help desk and being like hey this is a jordie and I can't log into my account right and sorry jordie that I've just figured on either but hey it's you know I can't log into my account and they're like all right well

you know who's your supervisor what's your work location you answer those two questions and they reset the cred for you and that that happens to the point or hundreds of percentages of increase that we've seen that occurring from threat actors so you know one of the ways to get around that from a defense perspective multi-factor authentication don't use SMS by the way from multi-factor authentication because that's a whole other thing because I can sim swap you or I can

you know and and you know if you have a backup for your multi-factor authentication is your Gmail

“while target your Gmail and then I'll intercept that key so having smart secondary factors”

and using past key and things like that really important and then using different you know I tell this to everybody and you know even if I'm talking to a bunch of school kids my kid use different passwords for everything yeah and I love nothing more than going into a room of people on my

guy raise your hand if you don't use the same password for every account and they always are hands

and I look around if your hand is is up your liar everybody does password reviews yeah of course give us the page for the podcast give us a summary tell people where to find it yeah it's the adversary universe podcast it's myself and Christian Rodriguez who's our field CTO of the Americas and just like you guys without to have a good time just kind of back and forth banter bringing gas occasionally but we really dive into the adversary so in this case with the the Axias incident we're

attributing that to you start us Chalima which is North Korean group we've been tracking them since 2015 and so and then lap lapses I don't know if I'm saying that correctly was connected to the light L.M. attack but that do I have that correct that was a different group well yeah that's that's

“kind of team PCP I think cream cream credit for that but you know there's they're they're actually”

fighting you can watch this in some of their channels the two groups are kind of you know talk they're like I didn't know I did there well I think the lapses guys were shiny hunters was like this is why we hack them right so you know the hacked team PCP so there's a lot of back and forth there but you know this one was North Korea who has been doing you know they

stole last year $1.46 billion and just one attack against a cryptocurrency company so they've

been stealing cryptocurrency since 2016 it you know billions of dollars is kind of the current total and when they do a supply chain attack like this they want to go after developers who are doing

then they can they can actually steal cryptocurrency and use that to buy things for the weapons

“program well yeah a lot more straightforward than then acquiring data and then trying to auction it”

off yeah totally with the ransom incident if you get the coin well yes some of some of those are interesting because they actually they were deploying um Steelers right to steal credentials to then go after other targets and there's a whole ecosystem on the underground where you know you can go in you can buy creds to an organization and if you have creds to an organization and you log in you can go straight into their single sign-on you can get into you know Microsoft Share

Point or any other data stores and you're off and running and there's really very little that organizations can do to prevent that you know it's a legitimate user logging in with a legitimate credential so it becomes very difficult for them well thank you so much for taking the time to come break it down for us have a great weekend yeah this was uh insightful talk come on come on more captain yeah this would be great anytime guys my pleasure have a good day have you goodbye i have

our next guest is Jeremy a layer from circle he's a live in person in the TV pin ultrasound with us we're very excited to talk to him Jeremy get to see you how are you doing i'm good um take us through the uh the announcement we were covering it uh over the past few days uh around uh maybe maybe reset out and wear the businesses today and then we'll go into the quantum story yeah absolutely I mean look um obviously we went public last year yeah um and you know as we went public you

talked thank you there's a sound one person to feel like i had that now yeah and um and you know at that time like we were talking a lot about like our stablecoin network which is like rooted in USDC and um but really you know over the last year we've really widened out yeah and so we we are a broader platform company now and we have an operating system that we've been building called arc and that's getting ready to you know go mainnet um as we say and um and then we've been

kind of building out abstractions of uh around kind of payments and sort of making payments more simple and mainstream um and then just building a lot of infrastructure and tools for developers and stuff so platform is really broad and but i mean if you look at you know where where we are now like USDC has become the most widely transacted uh difficulty in the world bigger than anything else

basically and and has overpassed uh overtake in tether in terms of transaction volume and you know we're

seeing uh new uptake uh uh we're seeing new uptake from you know major companies now you know whether it's like uh uh a fin tech like ramp that just launched like whole treasury management with it or it's you know a global bank like JP Morgan that's now has used it to like sell digital bonds and so it's all over the place which is pretty cool and then um you know one of the things that we

“saw really start to pick up and we'll talk about I think hopefully today too is and is a fact”

of they like this explosion in people building agents yeah and agents consuming services and needing ways to kind of kind of pay for all of that and the technology and standards to kind of do agent to agent um economic transactions financial transactions and USDC's played a big role in that and that's that's emerging and and to me is like one of the most interesting things happening in the agentic economy and uh and yeah USDC and our stable credit network is like what 99% of

the transaction's happening now at at that at that layer yeah so how how are you tracking adoption

what kinds of use cases are you expecting to be the first to to really kind of go uh more mainstream

this is something that uh people have been talking about uh for years now and as agents have become massively more popular it feels like now uh now could really be the moment but like what are

“you tracking most closely yeah I mean look there there there are a bunch of things I think um you know”

if you if you think about like the agent stack as it's emerging right um you you you you you're clearly seeing a lot of companies that have services have software have other things and they're basically like okay I need to kind of convert what I do into an agent consumable systems so I want to have an MCP server I want to have you know uh CLI interface right so you're all these kinds of things

and this sort of discoverability and then you need ways to basically enable agents to like on board

and transact really really quickly and not go through the kind of onboarding that you you would typically deal with and so um that's where we see this first wave is basically agents consuming services um that are now kind of agent ready and have been kind of structured that way and so there's like a registry of now um you know you know thousands of services that are basically

announcement actually today about that um and uh and so that's like the first to sort of like getting

“getting that connected but to me the really interesting and more explosive kind of growth potential”

is really you know agents that are providing services to other agents themselves and so if you think about like I'm I'm building an agent that's you know extremely good at a particular form of let's say medical analysis or I'm building an agent that's extremely good at reviewing resumes or I'm whatever that is this sort of agent as a service is again uh the the way that people are talking about this is like in those models you're basically paying for um you know intelligence and yeah intelligence is

is gonna be priced in in dollars but also as as consumable tokens and you need at that point like if you look at like what's the cost for an cost of intelligence for X number of tokens with the given model it could be five cents it could be a dollar it could be 35 cents it could be it could be more it could be long something long running could be you know $100 or whatever and so once you start having agents contracting with each other and needing that medium of exchange to

to settle that that's where I see this as explosive yeah because you get this compounding effective agents yeah we were talking earlier there there's a guy in the New York Times today that built uh

you know 1.8 billion yeah yeah and and what's notable is like he's using a bunch of different

intelligence providers yeah but if you're just hopping between different albums all the time it's not great you're like copy and paste it and it's not like unified and so you would imagine that over time you get to actual aggregators and you're like hey we need to tap into a different model for this but yeah and you know like an agent uh a red an agent marketplace and these registries of agents and this and obviously is like because it's all machine to machine like it's super discoverable

and what's behind any given agent which is just kind of consumed through you know uh some kind of underlying CLI or whatever API right like doesn't matter what the underlying model is behind it

“it's just like there's a there's a function I need and it's here and so um yeah I think it's also”

you know the kind of you know compensation fees transactions around agent to agent stuff is obviously has that like huge exponential potential I think what gets more interesting is is when you really start to think about structured economic relationships like like most economic relationships are not just like you have a thing I'm paying you for the thing right it's like a labor contract might there might be a lot involved in it or a service contract there may be many many stipulations

that are part of it and and and like a trade agreement between two companies there's like all kinds of stuff and so um you can imagine like more elaborate forms of contracts and those need to be machine written contracts machine enforce contracts and machine validated and audited and and and kind of have dispute resolution against all of those and like economic operating systems that are built on blockchain tech stacks are like the way that will happen and that's more of a

view of like what is the agentic economy what is the economic system and actually these these these these new companies that are you know the one person building to our startups etc like all of that phenomenon in some ways like these are these are these are emergent corporate forms right

“that that are are using a lot of AI labor and but over time like I think even the nature of corporate”

forms will change and will have more digitally native corporate forms that most of the substance is actually just software execution and like there's humans involved and maybe the legal system

will always require there's a person that that's there but I think we're going to we're going

to face a lot of very hard legal questions around you know sort of entity substance like what is the substance of the entity what is the entity um and but you know I think a lot of this there's a lot of material here that we have to work with to ultimately create these sort of fully digitally native forms that are you know composing and interacting with with contracts and economic systems how are you guys working with companies today the beauty of U.S.C. is anybody

can kind of get the power of it by just tap and missionless just tap in but I know you guys have invested in companies in the past partner with you know a ton of them directly like you know our people I'm sure you're getting you know in scene amount of real pitches and then also you know people pitching you with open claw things like that oh my god yeah I mean look I think like so a couple

investments in different types of startups that are doing interesting things we have we have

“builder programs so we have you know with funding and stuff like that so we have builder programs”

in this space um and but a lot of what we're doing is just basically like making sure everything that we have like all of the infrastructure for wallets the infrastructure for money the infrastructure for creating smart contracts like all the stuff that goes into this that all of that is just consumable and discoverable by either AI development tools or by AI agents themselves and and then letting things happen but like at a stepping back and a a little bit away from the AI specific

side of it um yeah I mean the the range of the range of companies now like getting involved and plugging into this is really broad yeah and and and that's exciting you know this is definitely kind of going and going into a mainstream phase imagine AI companies are ahead of the curve there in terms of adoption and turning on agent agreements because you go to an agent and it needs to use some resource that's the logical the logical pattern versus something

it there was a post I forget who who put it out earlier this week something to the effect of people AI people are more excited about crypto right now than yeah yeah yeah yeah well you know

I've always thought of these as sort of a highly complimentary and and even going back 13 years

when we were kind of starting circle the thing the thing that got me really excited was this idea programmable money that we were going to have like self-running software machines that would intermediate economic stuff on the internet like and that was the promise of the tech 13 years ago you couldn't do it wasn't possible didn't exist but it was like as an internet technologist that was really exciting to me I'm like wow like if you can actually have you know these sort of

self-running software machines that are auditable and can and run now I didn't have a concept of generative AI yeah but definitely was like okay programmable money that is going to be like a

completely new form of utility for money that's never existed and and so that that was very exciting

“and so I think in many ways like you know a crypto infrastructure crypto as a tech stack”

is very very purpose built for the the the agentic world like they really are hand in glove and and will work very very closely together and so you know trustless intermediation is like what what happens in AI right you know whether it's of data or of yeah it's interesting to think about how many business transactions like even if there's a contract there's so trust dependent yes and and stables can can play a role in helping that evolve because you can

say you know you know basically if you know you can you can escrow funds as said you can make

you can you can go contracts yeah and and these can be very very loud yeah that's always been the thing

will people like people like to buy from people but part of that is because you want to know okay who's my counterparty yeah do they have a good reputation yeah trust that even if we have a contract they'll they'll follow it right and have to get into some you know legal yeah yeah I remember the

“pitch for a machine to machine payments yes yeah I think it was around like a theory maybe 25”

yeah yeah so this is like an early thing yeah and it's sort of made sense but it was very hard to imagine writing all the code to now now exactly yeah it makes sense I'm wondering what you think holds about the the current economic philosophies or the economic rules of the road just in business and what might be different as we move towards a world of decentralised agentic payments like I imagine network effects still hold I imagine that if you create value you create the

network you can capture value through some transaction percentage and everyone will be happy in the ecosystem how do you think about the economics yeah I mean look I think I think there there are a bunch of different pieces here right so so circle is a is a money issuer like an issue digital dollar yeah we issue digital euros ERC's the largest digital euro stablecoin we issue digital treasury yeah products we have the largest tokenized money market basically so we're a money issuer

and so if we can build networks that have wide utility and protocols for that those those money that we issue that are super super widely used and provide great you know utility you can permissionlessly plug in etc and and we can grow that the monetary base alone can be massive right so we can we can we can we can imagine that you know these these kinds of digital dollars running

now and so that itself is significant and you know the economics are are very significant from that

“but I think you know ultimately I think you know as as the infrastructure becomes kind of more widely”

utilized for real world transactions I mean whatever that means right yeah we absolutely have an opportunity to participate in the the the velocity of those transactions and the economics around that but you know we have this philosophy when we started circle that you know over the long run that the marginal cost of storing and moving value would go to zero and that the business model of charging fees for payments would collapse and and you know I think over the long run that is

still going to be true actually zero or like zero I mean zero zero zero zero zero zero or one so yeah I mean I mean actually zero to most of the consumers of it because the costs underneath it are going to be so low it's like like you know you don't get charged for your WhatsApp audio call yep right they're like you know we're gonna we're gonna deal with it we'll make it up otherwise but like we've we just announced something called circle nano payments it's a it's a module

for agents to basically be able to like have a stored balance of of digital dollars of tokenized

dollars and be able to transact them to like different wallets on different blocktains and and we've gotten it to the point where we can actually have transactions priced at one one millionth of a penny for transaction and you know you're like well who would ever need that well if they're like yeah well here's a here's an example so yesterday we had eddy cue on from Apple yeah talking about the early days of the app store and how when you when you bought a song they

would effectively kind of open a cart and they would hope that you would buy multiple things

“I remember they would they would hope you'd buy multiple songs in the 24 hour period before they actually”

like right process the payment because otherwise you've been in order yeah quarter of the things actually yeah yeah and so like that right there is insane like the fact that the Apple one of the you know biggest consumer tech companies in the world had to use this kind of weird work around just to not give 25% of every transaction taking money away from of course like the creators and the record labels and Apple just like pure kind of rent extraction yeah it's like

payment systems like we're never designed we're not designed for a machine and a economy they weren't

and we we even see this now where because the cost to transact QSTC has gone to you know sort of fractions of a cent in in in general you can do that like the velocity of transactions has exploded and you see that in the growth in the year of your growth it's like tens of trains of dollars of transactions on a monetary base of around you know we like trillions yeah I'm on sale on scale what are you tracking right now to understand where we are in the

adoption of agentic payments because I imagine like it is happening yeah it's small it is is it are you doing like a percentage of GDP thing the percentage of your transaction base like like just growth month over months like what's the what's the what's the correct in 12 APS there's there's some there's a couple ways to look at it okay right now yeah so one is like there are specifically standards for agentic payments okay and so we are a code developer of the

X402 standard actually the X402 foundation just merged into the Linux foundation a lot of great companies stride Coinbase who's a pioneer in this circle this has been a proposal in HDP for like 25 years old thing it's a money like payment request model and so but now if you look at like X42 version 2 yeah it's like building out into a pretty rich vernacular it's needed for the the needs of agentic payments so one way to look at it is like what's X402 traffic and like

you can you can look at X402 traffic you can track it okay look at the payload you can see with the transactions are and that's in the like it's been growing it's in hundreds of millions okay

“so quite small from a from a starting base but I think the if you look at a leading indicator”

which is the number of of these like agents or services or endpoints that are X402 enabled has been growing very rapidly and and we as as well as like companies like stride

and Coinbase and others are we're basically like shipping stuff so that it's like super

but simple to like have X42 in front of whatever it is you're doing or you're in front and behind so you could be a consumer and a service provider and so I think that like 2026 we're going to see

had all of these references to X42 in it so you know it's clearly like even in foundation models

“becoming something that they're going like this is going to be like a common pattern but you know”

so that's if that's one way to look and then the other is like it's a hard to measure which is like people are using AI to create bots like these polymeric and trading bots or these hyper liquid trading bots or like all kinds of stuff and those aren't using X42 and so that's like other traffic but it's AI driven transaction volume and so it's hard to measure we got to talk on to a quantum yeah quantum when I mean I'm assuming you were aware of the risk of quantum

to the encryption overall no it didn't I mean so very aware and I'm saying like a wear pre-dating starting circle right like because this is just a risk for overall and this has been you know like crypto is cryptography which is math and and you know all this is about who can compute

these you know keys and ciphers and all this stuff so of course it's always been a background debate

always been a theoretical background debate as we've been building up our own operating system our own crypto based operating system arc we have been like saying okay we're doing this kind of clean room from the start it's a new infrastructure we have a chance to do post quantum readiness from the start whereas you know existing networks and there's this Google paper and all that jazz and so on like there's a migration and there's risk and all that kind of stuff and so

we basically just have a massive coordination problem huge coordination problem so we basically said look we have phenomenal you know you know PhD crypto people you know in the company and so we we made this a key priority and so we actually just announced today our whole post quantum roadmap and and one of the one of the most powerful things is that you know when arc goes main net in the not too distant future right it will have post quantum signatures there from the

start so if you're issuing assets and you're you're doing transactions you can actually use post

“quantum methods from the start I think will be the very first blockchain network in the world”

to have that there which is key now there's like multiple layers so this and so the roadmap also details like okay you know how how how do the you know validators on the network get themselves to be quantum resilient and resistant so there's multiple layers that have to happen over time

the base layer which is the most important which is the fundamental mechanism for how you sign

transactions how transactions are are published to the network and how assets get defined like that's that's post quantum there's a lot of detail we put it out in our documentation today but you know we we've been thinking about a long time and you know it's sort of interesting because we were gearing up to launch this and then this Google feet mine and we've been capable tank came out we're like okay well time to launch well an interesting challenge for the industry

because everyone needs to get their house in order and like create a plan but that's also like the entire industry needs to rally because even if you guys have your oh yeah no it cascades across all these ecosystems and like USDC runs on 32 blockchain networks right and and so like you know we we are part of the whole ecosystem obviously yeah and then you know of course like from a

“denova perspective people building new stuff I mean one thing to remember is like basically like”

crypto infrastructure blockchains had been an early adopter phenomenon until very very recently and like the actual usage at a global scale in the real economy like you know 98% of that's still ahead of us so we're still very early in all this less question for me how did you process the 2020-28 intelligence crisis that that paper the journey because some some of it was yeah

you know spec you basically making the argument there's a lot of kind of rent seeking in the

economy yes and AI can potentially make a lot of transactions a lot more efficient that's kind of what you're betting you're betting the company on specific bunch of specific stuff about stable coins in USDC and like you know all that I mean look we are so I I read that and there's a lot of really interesting things in there and and and broadly like you know even circle it's yeah the interesting criticism too is like the criticism was like okay this is like sci-fi yeah

when you look back at sci-fi throughout history yeah there's a lot of sci-fi that yeah that is like you know kind of come yeah I mean look I mean the fundamentals of like of like like completely restructuring like what what transaction costs are and and and and basically models where you know much of the work that's conducted in the real economy is work conducted by AI or by intelligence is and that that that work is economic thing you know to be measured out and and metered out and executed

anyone knows how big that will be but it's certainly you know again like total process volume which is like this number that like the card networks and others use like these numbers are going to be looks so small in comparison to the unity economics we're going to be very very different so I agree with you know a number of those conclusions I'm not a hedge fund I don't know positions

“in any of these companies and all that but like I think it's it's it's it's real and it's happening”

and yeah we're we're we're trying to build for that future amazing I'm glad we have you

working on it thank you so much for taking the time thank you guys to come on down to the team thank you thank you really appreciate our next guest is in the waiting room and we will bring in Justin Levine from Sheppard into the TDP and ultrasound kicks off our lightning round Jeremy how are you doing oh sorry don't I'm still up there I'm laying the car every time I think thank you thank you I thank you honor honor to have you here on this day sorry we

couldn't give you a heads-up but well we are not here to talk about us we're here to talk about you please introduce yourself in the company yeah Justin Levine co-founder and CEO of Sheppard we're a I need of insurance business we focus on large scale industries like construction and renewable energy yeah how how are you thinking about the growth of the construction data center industry broadly like what's the headline number that you're quoting because I imagine you

have a tab and it's growing but how do you actually sense make about the what to expect over the next couple of years as you build the business I mean we're in a massive construction super cycle

“specific to the AI infrastructure layer I think this year alone there's something like 400 billion”

dollars of infrastructure spend just related to either data center assets or the energy assets that need to support those data centers there's not enough energy on the grid so we don't have to build the energy assets next to the data centers in order to make it all operational so you know from a tam perspective we are we're seeing a massive inflection in terms of

construction this year alone 80 billion dollars of data centers were started so 80 billion dollars

new data centers starts just happened in in in the last 12 months so we're just seeing a massive wave and it's kind of ironic for us we we build shepherd on this thesis that AI was really right to productize this service of underwriting and doing underwriting differently and then ironically a lot of these AI companies became our customers because this industry is is really you know

“the the driving force of construction right now okay so who are all the different parties that you”

guys are helping insure it's it's AI company you know right right it's yeah it's a mix of the of all the above so everything from hyperscalers to the labs companies to you know contractors that are building obviously these these assets our portfolio is actually more diverse than just AI specific companies but so you know our typical business is a large scale developer of assets that are either energy assets or elder assets hospitals things of you know all sorts of

different I say large commercial physical assets and then we ensure the contractors as well so a big portion of what we do is is identifying the best contractors or using the best technologies on the field and then rewarding them with innovative pricing yeah so what what what are what are the insurance right is it weather and climate weather fire day labor like there's so many different what is what can you what can you ensure versus like what is just to what what could you

ensure but it's just too hard to price sure to go to you know too high to make it you know feasible there's there's a lot of different hazards obviously like related to the construction cycle so there's obviously like the just the the the cost of the building during the the construction phase so the property risk that is associated with you know again a large data center campus might be

between billion dollars of both construction material as though as well as equipment that's being

installed so there's an enormous property component and just ensuring the actual property during the construction phase is a huge strain on the insurance ecosystem then there's a liability perspective so you know the the builders that are creating these assets are they are on the hook for mistakes for defects for potential you know injuries to people or buildings and other other assets that are around these job sites so depending on sort of like the the products offering you're

you're obviously focused on it on a specific hazard we really focus on like the driving hazard so casualty is our archie our archie product offering and again that's going to be like

but then we also do property so we also do the the materials and the cost of construction while it's being built

“what what are your relationships like on the actual insurance side who who are you who are you”

actually who's putting up all the capital and taking on the risk yeah so we we partner with large scale insurance balance sheets almost similar to like a new bank that's going to have you know sort of a traditional bank behind it you know providing all the financial stability and and rating and the necessary requirements to fulfill whatever the the contractual risk that is there between a lender and a you know builder so we kind of we stand up under what's called

MGA model which is that shepherd really owns all of the upfront marketing sales underwriting policy servicing everything from a submission coming in the door the underwriting that happens the making the decision making around what risks we want to we want to ensure and then ultimately servicing those accounts once they become policy holders underneath our brand take us through the

raise we got a 42 million dollar rounds and and yeah what came in special about this like

the actual investors on this round yeah so so this is our series B it was led by one of the largest insurance companies in the world so intact private capital led the round that's the venture arm of intact insurance in tax of 30 billion dollar global insure I would say what's special about

“it is the signal you know I think a lot of the things that we're trying to do differently”

specific to the automation of underwriting making underwriting significantly faster and more efficient a large insure large commercial insure like intact pairing with us and partnering on this I think signals that they see that the world of underwriting is is about to change dramatically just like other large industries whether it's legal or accounting or all these other areas where we've seen a huge impact from AI and brokerage and and and underwriting are kind of you know right in that

that wheelhouse of where services businesses can change dramatically so intact and partnered with us at the A they were a capacity provider for us so they are one of those balance sheets that sits behind us they've seen what we've been doing they see the innovation that we're bringing the industry and so they they should free up to the round and and double down into the into the B last question to me how how human is the process of underwriting because I feel like you could probably build

the models where footage what are the assets where is it you know you probably have underwriting models but there's probably still so like who are you hiring how how how how well the how the human capital side of the business scale yeah totally so I you know commercial insurance you know differently from personal lines is it's definitely more complex it's more more data heavy more intensive and there's a lot more sort of decision new wants and decision making that

happens at the underwriter level so we actually we equate what we're doing on the underwriting side to a little bit of a similar view of the self-driving kind of autonomous vehicles type of road map so we've mapped our own level one through level five and the idea is like today most commercial insurance companies have underwriters with two hands on the wheel and they're you know literally doing every single thing what we're trying to do is get to a place where the underwriter at

Shepard is much more of an orchestrator they are managing a portfolio of 200 accounts rather than just 20 or 15 on monthly basis and so underwriters do play a significant role we hire underwriters who think of themselves as entrepreneurs who want to build a portfolio they want to orchestrate and manage that portfolio what they don't want to do is data entry and and some of the I'd say like process heavy and high friction elements of traditional insurance underwriting today. Well thank you so much for

coming on for us congratulations around and good luck. Thank you guys, we'll talk to you soon, ripping. Have a great stuff, congrats, congrats. See you guys, talk to you. Our next guest is Grab Misha from Mirage formerly captions app. I found out about the company's rep Randall from the previous round. Great little drop. Let's see if we can alter down the drop. How are you doing? Well it's happening. Good. Thanks for having me excited to be here.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Crazy fall almost in here. Crazy you guys us.

“Yeah, you're how you must have been in the first how many guests I'm a huge user of this app. I love”

this app. I've used it for everything that I send you every time there's a video with captions over it.

I'm always downloading on my phone, screen recording, putting in captions and then I'll even

use it to transcribe video. John John is a magician like he can make he can make basically feature length memes that usually just gets sent to the team chat. Yeah, but yeah, for those who

sort of give us the live land. Yeah, so I mean as you mentioned you know we transition our names

“so we kind of went from captions to Mirage but you know the app remains to be captioned. The company that”

we renamed basically and part of that is like we're building out of product suite so you know it makes sense to sort of have a different company name for that. Now we obviously we raised about

$75 million recently. We announced that which is exciting. Thank you. Love that.

And so so you know with that funding a lot of what we're going to do is expansion you know market expansion so you know we are very excited about the magic moment the product already has and you talk about a little bit right and when we can bring the product in front of a new customer they're very likely to convert very likely to pay and very likely to retain and that's kind of what our investor saw that's kind of why this new investment came in. Now we want to bring this to as many

people as possible around the world it's quickly as possible you know historically we've been sort of marketing in like 5 to 7 countries that's kind of where we've been US centric like a little bit near up the stuff but now we want to go really broad you know especially Asia is a big focus region so that's kind of the plan where we're going. How do you think about just feature requests and all like the the scope of what you can do with video plus say I I don't want to narrow you down

“to mobile but like I think you've executed very well on mobile but there's so many different”

features and a lot of them get broken up into different models different APIs I feel like there's so much opportunity to bring all that together at the same time you're going up against meta and edits and cap cut and divide dance like there are some big players but there's also a lot of opportunity so how do you see the landscape of things that you can do outscroll reals all the time and see some crazy edit and be like I know that they jump to blender for that or they used

a particular AI model for that or they're in after effects for that and I and I want to recreate it but I don't want to necessarily sit down for five hours and remember how to use blender. I mean it's you actually hit the nail on the head because this is exactly kind of what we're the way we're thinking about how our prior pro map goes right I think if you look at the AI video space there's tons of companies there's a lot of activity happening right now right but our approach

is a bit different than everybody else like we're not only about generating video even though that's a big component of what we do right we use all kinds of models out there we have our own models as well right for audio and video generation but it's really about the assembly of the video into something

that actually makes sense right something that a narrative that you know ultimately can work for you

whether you're small business you're you know selling something whatever it is you can tell your story sell your product market yourself or your very business using our product because we can assemble the right video for you now here's the interesting part well we've noticed is that a lot of our customers especially the ones that are retaining for long periods of time it's not just about fully generated video like that's like it's a thing if you're making Super Bowl commercial short

like go and generate the entire thing like it's gonna look awesome right but there's actually a much much larger market for like a mix of content like think about like our average customer like they're like a plumber right or maybe electrician or like a nail salon right they want to actually show like their actual nail salon right what is it actually look like as opposed to a generated nail salon of some sort right and they want to merge that with some generated footage some cool

shots so like maybe you know a founder video like talking you know perfectly about whatever whatever they want to do and put it all together into something that they can give the customers market on their website wherever they're putting it out there social media right so it's really about the connection of generated and non-generated together and then you know putting the narrative together that's the intelligence layer so like that's really our focus how do you think about

entry points into video creativity there's something that can be sort of intimidating about an empty text box at the same time it is like the universal interface is the most broad possible UI how when do you want to use it to start with an existing video or an image versus start with a blank text box yeah so I actually so even today over 50% of our users start with some sort of media an image a video you know a set of images a set of videos audio music all kinds of

things right so over 50% of people start with media which actually is like very different than most other like a lot of like pure video generators people start with tests start with a prompt and

“ours is flipped it's like media first prompt is attached to it right now I think the way we think”

that's gonna evolve for us is that you know it's gonna go more and more media first that's

the crazy part right like I think people expect it to go more prompt first but I think our angle

another extreme here think about like let's say you want to make a documentary right probably want like zero generated footage and a documentary right like it's like all documented reality right yeah I've been and been seeing that I've been lately like I'll try to pull the video on YouTube with with with my son of like a cheetah but I have to find videos that are older than like four years because I don't want a bunch of AI cheetahs I want the real thing

I'm trying to see like documentary footage so you gotta find like the vintage national geographic

stuff wow yeah so that's gonna be lost we'll never find it again now we will always have the

archives we'll be going deep into the vintage yeah yeah it's real what do you what are the plans to scale the business over the next year or two with the new fundraising yeah I mean so a lot

“of it's gonna be market expansion right we talked about that I think secondarily is use case expansion”

right so like you talked about like we started off it's really simple adding captures really it's like we that was the first thing we ever did right straightforward but quite useful right and then from there you realize it's it about it's really about like automatically editing your video right like automatically adding edits automatically doing stuff that people can manually normally right and that's kind of how we built our roadmap right so the future for us is expanding use cases

on what can be automatically edited right today it might be okay it's talking ahead videos it's real estate videos things like that right tomorrow it could be product launch videos right tomorrow could be like all kinds of the things that we don't do today maybe perfectly right so that's kind of where things are going and with that comes like new sets of users you know expanded use cases obviously like expanding the town for product right so that's kind of where we're going both on you know product

expansion geo expansion you know that's really the focus well thank you very much for coming on and bringing it down for us congratulations and we'll talk to you soon right to have you back on

let's not let it be a year always a great time yes and in my way I guess you guys thank you

yeah have a great weekend yeah great to talk to you soon goodbye all right and without further ado we have our last guest at the show fill up from star cloud put more and more data centers in space

“we go to the top to the top is I believe in the waiting room or frame in the TV can hold for”

home and he's ready uh Google released a feature called inbox zero they say inbox zero is the thing of the past introducing air inbox cut through email clutter with smart prioritization and daily personalized briefings Isaac says brand sending five emails a day to drive higher and higher ROI won't work anymore RIP email yeah be interesting to see how this channel does that's sent us a bunch of a bunch of emails that he's been getting uh and they look like spam recruiter emails but they all

come from newly set up Gmail accounts and they're not quite human sounding so we can clock them but basically he's getting like an ever increasing amount of poaching emails and you know the usually like you'll need another filter on the other side the barriers are going to have to start going for a while standing outside offices and just waiting for people to leave yeah well we have uh

“I believe we have fill up from star cloud in the waiting room uh we got some vertical video we'll”

make it work we are gonna have a quick chat at this in space how you doing well it's going to you do hey guys apologies to the end but yeah oh yeah it's great we got back to back sound okay so i can turn this off second time on the show i kick us off at the fundraising tell us what happened

yes so we just raised 170 million dollars that are 1.1 billion dollar valuation

that is massive round so the video is vertical because the value is going but yeah yeah this works great so yeah talk to us about uh what you'll be building with that new round is this uh hiring are you going to be in the R&D phase do you have manufacturing partners lined up are you going to be buying heavy equipment to make stuff what does the next couple years look like for you yeah so we're building the fence satellite that's very similar to it's

going to fill on the starship has the expensive form factor so it's this constellation we've just followed with the FCC for 88000 satellites and so what this allows us to do is build a manufacturing line for that um 88000 satellites by the way we're going to allow us to deploy about 20 gigawatts of compute fasting which is only over a hundred billion dollars without the capex spend yeah so yeah we're ramping up to love you yeah absolutely while who like what kind of partners are are you

what is an emerge you know will be an emerging category um how are you approaching that's it yeah

“100% and so we're working with Nvidia on we just announced a GTC Jensen announced it”

this space a ribbon ship so it's like a slightly mass optimized slightly radiation tone and then slightly thermally optimized chip which can be used for space inference and we've been working with them on that for a while because we've got enormous amount of data now from the star cloud one satellite

which has the first in video H100 on board and so we're using all of that telemetry to form the

design choices based on the rootmanship and also on our second and third satellite how are you running workloads like mini workloads on the other satellite how what is testing look like yeah exactly so we ran we trained a model so we trained it on a couple of these nano GPT on there yeah we did the first high-power inference so we were running a version of Gemly called Gemmer on the spacecraft and then we're now also doing some more like military kind of useful workloads which is

running inference on star data so synthetic aperture radar which is basically where companies or where satellites collect a 3D image of the world underneath them and then they can use that to detect things like a vessel answering you know entering your territory or a while of the things how is it how is the discussion going how is the research and development going around heat dissipation that that that that felt like the will it work what are the economics

are we are we expecting to be like on track for some solution do you feel like the solutions insight on some curve or maybe even already here how is that going yeah yeah and by the

“way this is what I want to give you guys credit for shifting everything window on this and because I think”

you guys are the first to do a segment right you're like do you remember the bit where you're like

imagine before they had cameras on spacecraft some people would be like well that's so crazy from that on people were like okay maybe yeah this is probably actually is good that she I think yeah but but yeah so so we've been we've been working on this right if it's ready for radiator for two years now it's been you know it's a solved problem in the sense of the physics of it okay what what remains to be done is the manufacturing challenge so making this thing cheap and

light and also falling off to fit into that what you call it like the pez dispenser exactly the pez dispenser form factor okay we've we've got that we've got a design that we've mocked up so we fabricated it and it's going pretty thermal and vacuum testing now it's about a hundred times less cost per watt of dispation than the International Space Station radiator and about ten times less mass per watt of dispation than the ISS radiator yeah and the main reason

is we're not doing 3D like additive manufacturing we have a much simpler manufacturing technique

“which yeah that's what kind of our core IP sure and then I just I mean can you give me like a”

mental picture of what I'm visualizing because I feel you can't just be a sail that just like there's no wind so the wind doesn't expand the sail am I thinking about like he's in a little tiny bit of sort of like expand and unfurl yeah exactly so the deployment mechanism is what's called a pan-to-graph so it's like the seismic mechanism that if you've ever seen like when you walk across the building site you sometimes see those like platforms that will raise up and down

they're lifted by this pan-to-graph seismic mechanism that goes like this it's exactly the same deployment mechanism which by the way all the starlink solar is deployed using a pan-to-graph so what we've done is we've just added you might have say 20 sections of solar panel that unfold in the sea fold and then we've just added five segments of radiator at the beginning which also unfold in the sea fold and then they're connected with tubing and then we're

pumping cool and pass the chips directly and then out to this z-fold five segment radiator oh interesting you're at one GPU in space you filed five GPUs oh you're fine okay I thought you sure yeah yeah five but you're you're going to 88,000 or something like that what will the curve look like are you trying to do 50 and then 500 and then 5,000 and then 50,000 are we going by orders of magnitude or is it like yeah a lot of work and then they all start flying

up really fast so we are very heavily dependent on Starship before we will be flying frequently

so we're expecting Starship to deploy the first starlink V3 payloads either end of this year early next year

and then from the hour expecting 18 to 24 months before the first car commercial payloads so customers like us flying so we're looking at a 2028 before we launch our Starship but our own deployment schedule is later this year we'll be launching Starcut 2 and that will be a 10 kilowatt space run about a hundred times a power generation at the first one we flew and that has this the first one to have this deployable radiator will be by far the largest commercial radiator

on Starship this has this been so actually we may even launch on Falcon 9 the first one just

“to test it which will be about 200 kilowatt so at 20 times again the starcut 2 and then we can”

launch 50 of those per Starship so then you're talking about 10 megawatt so compute per Starship launch and you know what Starship is flying frequently we're expecting to be launching hundreds of times per month so that's a hundred Starship launches about a gigawatt of new crafty so we're talking on the order of tens of gigawatt so new crafty per year being deployed at that point. Do you have any insight into how like space compute might in the short term be better for a

particular AI workload like it's really the better at diffusion or worse at diffusion or better

“you know we've seen some bifurcation just in the data center around Asex, grockchips, cerebrus etc”

is there is there a world where we're like oh there's this one small use case that's going to really really work well and then maybe over time it'll do everything but in the short term we're confident about this um so at a high level it's not going to be any training workload okay and at a low level it won't be anything that requires sub 50 millisecond latency

so there'll be a sweet spot in the middle which in my mind is basically all back office business

processing tasks and all co-generation tasks you know you could even do voice agents for customer

“service or anything like that video generation as well but it won't be things that require”

extremely low latency or things that require very highly internally networked console cluster like like a training workload you could not do yeah let me slow sense well thank you so much congratulations on the round very excited yeah master yeah and you you you you you seem like you've even it evolves yourself since the last time you're on the show I'm sure I'm sure you've just you and the whole team have been pushing it to the absolute limit but yeah it's it's it's

fantastic to see someone like call their shot and then it becomes just one domino falls after another and then it's being mentioned at GTC and Elon's talking about it and it becomes you know much more like science fiction fully moves towards like science fact which is very exciting so thank you appreciate that thank you have a great rest of your day have a great weekend and we'll talk to you

soon hopefully so congrats on it but I know it's amazing thank you well talk to you soon thank you

good one you go bye I really really texted yeah I dad yes he said congratulations that's so exciting thanks for letting me now talk to you soon have a great day thank you thank you dad oh it's amazing well if you've texted me or you've called me in the last three hours there's a good chance that I might respond to you in the next couple hours because we are winding down the show please leave us five stars an apple podcast and spotify subscribe to our newsletter tbp.com

everything is the same we will see you on the fun we have an amp next week five shows 15 hours let's be honest it'll probably be more like 17 or 18 or 19 we'll see you knows the world is our oyster and thank you for being with us along the journey we appreciate it one more gong hit john more gong hit spin it on earth you're by everyone see you soon we'll see you tomorrow