The Best Movies of the Year … So Far. Plus: 15 We Missed!

>> I'm Sean Fantasy. >> I'm Amanda Daven.

“>> This is the big picture at Conversation Show,”

but the best and the rest on today's show, we will share our favorite movies of the year so far, and run through several 2026 releases we missed. Dell used a reward season later in this episode, I'll be joined by Ben David Crabinski,

the writer director of the very fun new action comedy, Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice, Ben David is an avid cinephile and super smart writer, and you can feel his passion for all different kinds of movies and Mike and Nick stick around for our conversation.

I think you will really enjoy it,

but first we have some movie news to get into right after this.

[MUSIC] This episode of The Big Picture is presented by State Farm, sure, being an expert and movie trivia is impressive. You know, it's even more impressive, being smart about saving money. And a great way to do that is by saving when you choose to bundle home

and auto with the State Farm Personal Price Plan, bundling just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings,

and eligibility vary by state. >> Okay, Amanda.

“>> So let's be clear, we have three-day old movies.”

>> Three-day old movies. Today is Monday, we're recording on a Friday. So in the event that Avengers Doomsday has pushed back to 2029, we will not know about it. But we do know that Jumanji 3 has been pushed back to Christmas 2026.

I tell you that and you say what? >> Yay. I say big screens for Doomsday. I would say that I am Amanda Dobbins, a professional film podcaster of sorts.

>> Uh-huh. >> Now at this point have too much information about how many large format screens Doomsday may or may not be eligible for it. >> Put a little context around it. Avengers Doomsday is coming up the same day as Doomsday.

We talked about it last week on the show. And we were like, this is weird. >> Yeah, this is a really big lot of sense. But these two very slow movies. >> Well, they did.

>> And of course, Jumanji moved off of December 11th to Christmas. So now it seems like Doomsday can move up to December 11th, and maybe get to my Mac screens in the process to make more money for them. We were talking about who's going to blink. Who moved first?

>> Yeah.

>> This would be certainly a blinking and a moving first for Doomsday.

However, probably a smart move for them. However, I kind of feel like Doomsday is just more fun and cooler. Like, I just think it would be more of an interesting movie event weekend. >> People are very angry that you tried to coin Doomsday. >> I did coin it because I put the three where the E is supposed to go.

>> Great. >> Because we learned that the movie is called Doomsday. A lot of people like Doomsday exist, bro. No, not Doomsday with the three. Okay, everyone.

So just simmer down. >> Yeah, I love to market. I love to be part of marketing. I'd seem like they will move. That's what we speculate.

Right, that it is Doomsday. And a Warner Brothers in the position of strengths here. And that it would probably. And they also, it is Doomsday. Doomsday.

Doomsday. Doomsday. >> Doomsday. >> Doomsday. >> Doomsday.

>> Just that three is doing a lot of work. Backwards E. >> I know. It looks like my son tracing right now. >> We're having some similar issues with inverted shapes on our letters.

>> But they already had the screens tied up for two weeks. So it was written in the ink of IMAX that Doon had the upper hand. So it does seem like the blink. This is useful for me because now I know the holiday party is going to be December 12th. >> Okay.

>> You can all talk about Doomsday at the holiday party. >> No, no, no, no. That would just be, oh, we can talk about Doomsday not Doon. >> Correct. >> You're really going to have to work on your annunciations.

>> Doomsday. >> Yeah, I will have seen it, I guess. Hopefully I have recorded the podcast. >> Absolutely. >> Contractually obligated to record, so that I can get quite drunk at my own holiday party.

>> Yeah, I'm, you know, this is like a stupid story, but it is kind of interesting to be because what date your movie lands on is pretty consequential right now. The, for example, you know, we're heading into week two.

We can two of project Hail Mary, which is reportedly tracking to make like $50 million

this week, and which would be a crazy hold.

“And that is great for a lot of reasons, and you know what?”

When we saw that preview of that movie back in April of 2025, I was like, this is a long time to wait for this movie. Turns out they picked a really good weekend to release a big event movie when there wasn't a lot going on against it the first weekend or the second. So this stuff is actually consequential to the business.

>> I mean, it's about resources. >> It is about access to iMac screens and to big format because there are limited number of them. And people are locking them up a year and two years and three years in advance.

I think 54% of its box office came from large format screens.

“This is just kind of where the movie business went.”

And if you don't have a movie that cost $200 million, there's able to access those screens, you're going to take a hit financially. So anyway, thought we would put a little pin in that one. Speaking of pins, let's pull the pin out of the murder she wrote grenade.

>> Murder she wrote is my wife's favorite television show. >> I do know that. >> My wife adores Angela Lansbury and when things are low in our house, you can rest assured that she will be firing up murder she wrote to come back to her special happy place.

So as announced this week that there will be a murder she wrote movie, starring Jamie Lee Curtis. Jamie Lee Curtis just came up on the 1980 movie draft. You had some short words for her. That's all it is. She has been overexposed like four times now.

We're on the fifth Curtis sense. And my opinion doesn't even matter how does I lean your wife feel about it. >> We haven't even spoken about it. >> What? >> I know, just been a busy week.

We haven't gotten into it. I'm going to run a fire. I don't know if she has any JLC feelings. >> Can you text her right now? Would she respond right now?

>> I find out. I mean, she's taking care of a sick kid, so I don't guarantee. >> We love you. >> Hi, Hone. We're live on the podcast. >> This is very exciting.

>> When you're typing out, Hone, H-O-N. >> H-U-N. >> H-U-N, oh, yeah. >> We're thinking about that. >> I know, but that's okay.

>> What do you mean? >> You think H-O-N? >> H-U-N?

“>> Yeah, I think H-U-N because it's short.”

>> What if it's short for a till of the hunt? >> But do you also, when you say, yeah, you do. >> Do you know cell be a till of the hunt? It just blew right past that. >> When you type out, yeah.

>> I know how you text with me, but when you guys are texting. >> Do you have different-- >> Of course. >> Yeah, of course. >> But do you do Y-E-A-H or do you do Y-E-A? >> If you were you, I would say Y-E-E-H.

>> I know. >> If it were, I lean out say Y-E-E-H. >> Yeah, that's really weird. >> Is it? >> No, no, I mean, I guess that's normal.

I don't really think that I have different texting vernacular depending on who I'm texting, you're getting me. And I guess my parents slightly, because they are still lawyers who text and email with full punctuation, like absolute psychopaths.

You never feel more in trouble than when you get an email from my mother.

But I don't really change the slang person a person. But I understand why you would. But I think Y-E-H is weird. >> Yeah, one thing about me, I lean. We've been together since 1999.

>> Yeah, no idea. >> Like our verbal and textual language has really, we have a big, a lot of history, a lot of data. >> How did you stay in your phone? >> Just shown.

>> No, I lean. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, but no last name. >> No, no, no. >> Yeah. >> I think it's--

>> But you don't have any. >> Dad and I lean, or the only people that have that delineation, caught in Kyle and Cara, and Grace, my siblings, my wife, and my dad, or the only people who know last names. >> My mom and dad are the only people's act,

because obviously last name, because we met as adults. >> You couldn't have that, you know. >> And I know, but now it freaks me out. I need everybody to have the first and last name, and I made some new friends the other night,

and we were leaving dinner, and I was like, okay, so I'm going to need first name, last names, to attach to these random phone numbers and my phone, because I can't have them saved without names. >> Okay.

>> No response? I thought that was some pretty good vaping. >> I put on a doctor's house. >> I put on a doctor's house. >> Okay, you're going to have to keep looking.

>> Okay. >> Let's keep talking. You know, the movie's going to be directed by Jason Moore, kind of seems like a smart use of IP, even if you're over-indexed on jangling Curtis these days.

I don't know. Again, like familiar but new, that's my whole thing.

This is something we've never seen a movie version of this.

Mystery movies are kind of work. The knives out films work. >> But what's, yeah, is the point of this to find a new generation of murder she wrote? I'm Jack and Lucas, murder she wrote any familiarity.

>> I mean, I'm familiar with the title. >> This is absolutely like no. >> Okay. >> I'm familiar with it. >> You know, it was a network television show,

a weekly murder mystery who done it show. >> My mother would also watch it. So I have seen a ton of it. It's very like cozy mystery. Angela Lensbury lives in Maine.

>> Yes, and she is a mystery writer who is also a skilled detective who is called upon when there are murders. >> Thank you. >> They're going to create many murders in her small town. It isn't Maine, New Hampshire.

>> Sure.

“>> I think she's doing Maine, Miss Marvel.”

>> Yes. >> Which is also your wife's preferred mystery. >> Love mystery. >> Yes. >> Overquaro.

But it wasn't like ironic. It wasn't funny. The murders weren't particularly violent.

And you could always definitely guess by the first commercial break.

Who did it? And that is fine. That's part of what's soothing about it. But who doing something like, kidsy funny? >> I don't want it to be too much.

I think it would be actually better if they played it more straight. I do think that there's something really fun about the show to go back to, which is that it was a launch pad.

dozens of people who would go on to be really famous after that. >> Or law and art. >> Yes. That's another good example. Or it would be like an interesting place for a much older actor

to come in and be a single guest shot. Where you find a screen star from the 50s would come in as the killer in one episode.

That was always a lot of fun.

“If the movie brings that energy, I think it would be pretty cool.”

But I don't know. It makes sense. Coming on Christmas next year. Just like a nice movie for you. >> Yeah, murder.

She wrote up against the untitled Nancy Myers movie. >> Oh, wow. >> Christmas 2027. >> Yeah. >> And then you put me on the glacier and you set me out to see.

>> Yeah. Or you just moved to, I don't know, West Palm Beach probably. Okay. More movie news, Ryan Gosling. Coming off of this Hail Mary.

Success. It was announced. It's teaming up with Daniels for their first feature for Universal. It will be unsurprisingly a sci-fi comedy. So this will be three straight sci-fi movies in a row for Ryan Gosling.

With Projectile Mary, star fighter.

John Levy's Star Wars film. >> We're counting that as sci-fi. >> It was certainly science fiction. >> I guess so. >> Yes, it is.

You're right. >> And this new movie, you know, you're not the biggest Daniels person in the world. >> I also, the Daniels new movie has been percolating, scheduled, unscheduled. Has been something else. Has been something else for since everything everywhere all at once.

Essentially, does that raise any flags to you? >> I don't know. I mean, it's been more than five years since everything ever all at once came out. But there was also a big gap between Swiss Army men and everything ever all at once.

“I think obviously the ideas in their movies are very ornate and complicated and the way”

they like to make movies is unusual. I don't know. I mean, I think bringing Gosling onto your movie is a good idea. It does seem to be pretty in keeping with the tone that he's persuasive. >> Yes.

>> Has an actor when you look at Barbie and you look at the fall guy and Hail Mary. >> All those movies kind of have varying degrees of success. >> Right. >> But there is a kind of like jokey, you know, jokey serious that I think is also what the Daniels do.

I'm interested. I like everything, everything everywhere all at once. I think it's now taken on a much more outsized reputation, both good and bad because of it's best picture when. >> It's best picture.

It's Oscar's sweep. >> Yes. >> That was pretty. >> It ran the table that year. >> I like Ryan Gosling.

>> Okay. >> Whatever he wants to keep doing. >> I mean, sure. I do want like one really evil Nick Reffen movie in the next 10 years. You know, like one movie that's like, I know you love the place beyond the pines.

Please show me. >> So we're still in the Gosling press tour moment. But we're also sliding into a lot of Robert Pattinson for the drama content, which we'll talk about next week. >> I'm getting dots for my lean.

>> Oh, that's exciting. And they're both giving a lot of good content. And so I would Ryan Gosling and Robert Pattinson in a movie work against each other or like, is it like the center couldn't hold? >> That's very interesting.

>> I'd like to encourage them. >> I'd like to encourage them. >> They're both on each and they do have a sort of- >> I think brothers. >> Offbeat sensibility.

Yeah. And they both like to do really weird shit.

And then they will also- I mean, Pattinson is never quite as broad as Gosling.

>> Yeah, Pattinson's 39 and Gosling is 45. >> I'm just- I'm just putting it out there. >> That's interesting. I feel good in living with Gosling for so much longer partially because he was a child star, but teen star.

But I would be into that.

“>> I mean, highlight is not that much after the notebook, right?”

>> No, but in that I know. >> I know. >> Sure. And remember the titans and all of that stuff. Dots, but no response. >> I'm waiting, I'm waiting.

>> Okay. All right. >> Dots disappear. >> Wow. So maybe now she's doing a lot of research. She's got it in for herself before she takes the opinion. >> Made it right over here.

Fortunately, we have a lot of podcasts to go. So we'll see if she ever gets back to us. >> All right. >> The Oscars are moving from the Dolby Theatre in Hollywood to L.A. live and the peacock theater.

>> Yeah. >> This is happening in 2029. The Dolby Theatre is relatively small, 3300 seats. The Dolby-- excuse me, the peacock theater has about 7,000 seats. I don't really know if this is interesting news or not.

Because you and I don't go to the Academy Awards. >> Right. >> We probably won't go. >> This makes it so much more convenient for my plan next year. Okay.

I hear what you're saying with the traffic at L.A. live. It's so much worse. >> So much worse. >> I'm going to wear you guys down. >> This is a year-long project.

I'm planting the seeds. >> But this is 2029. So it's at least three years away. >> Okay. >> Three years away.

>> Yeah. >> I've already been put on the glacier after the Nancy Myers and-- >> Yeah, sure. >> The Beatles too. >> Yeah.

That's right.

I have to come back from the glacier.

>> Okay. >> I lean as well. Simply put, I mean, it's not murder she wrote without Angela Lansberry. Maybe I could accept a prequel kids version of it. It's just another mystery show without her.

>> Okay. I agree. >> I mean, I suppose. >> Yeah. I had that inkling as well.

But maybe it's not for us. Maybe it's for a new generation. It can be a new murder show. I guess. What if she's like a murder podcaster?

“This is like that's what's going to happen.”

And I want to light myself on fire. >> I don't want to say time. >> I don't want it either. But you know, if they're updating it, that that's what they're going to do.

>> It's going to be insane when some hallowed figure of Hollywood history dies over the weekend.

We're opening the podcast with all this bullshit. I really hope that doesn't happen. >> You're not going to call in from spring break. >> We'll see. >> Okay.

>> We will see. The Oscars moving, I think, you know, makes sense. They want to have more people to theater. I'm sure it's a money issue. And a lot of ways how much are they paying to host the show.

And that's based. It does make it significantly, I don't know about less special. Because who really gives a shit like what theater they put the show in. But a lot of shows are done at the peacock theater. Like the Grammys are there, country music awards are there.

There's like a lot of stuff that just kind of goes into there. I've been to that space many times when I worked at ESPN. I worked in LA live. I've spent a lot of time in that food court. >> Right.

“>> Which is not dissimilar to the food court that the Dolby Mall.”

>> It's not. >> It's not. >> It's not. >> It's not. >> It's not.

>> It's not. >> You do. I've eaten in that tombs many times. I've eaten at that farmhouse many a time. I've eaten in that farmhouse coming to visit you at work.

He worked at ESPN. >> Yes. I don't. Neither one is that all that glamorous. But I do think Hollywood has a little bit more that sheen of the town to it.

Where is LA live? It's just. >> It's right now. Just so like crypto.com arena. It's Matt Balny suggested in his newsletter that the peacock theater would be renamed by the time.

>> That makes sense. >> Which just, you know, Dolby cinema is also a brand sponsor. Or the Dolby theater is a brand sponsored theater. >> This is connected to movies, though. You know, you go to the park and down Navi too would have you feel differently.

But no, I agree with you. I agree. But also that these things are just like changing so quickly. It has a little bit of like uniclo field at a. Dr. Stadium for five to it.

We're very for sale, which they are. But I agree. It feels more corporate, unless the stars are out. >> Yeah, I think the Oscars probably has to be really conscious about this, where they run the risk of just becoming a little bit more down market. That they still are the absolute platinum brand of award shows acknowledging the hearts in America.

And moving to YouTube and changing locations and making the show bigger and hosting more people and having it downtown instead of in Hollywood. You know, they're all small kind of middling things, but you put them all together. And then is the specialness still as special? I don't know. I'm not trying to concern troll, but I do think that there will be, there is an accumulation of things happening here that are going to be noticed at some point.

“>> Remember when it was at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion?”

>> I do. >> Also downtown, like three blocks from the peacock theater, but just much cheaper. >> Yeah, and I think part of that is just like you remember hearing live from the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion and everything felt very elevated and we didn't live in this city at that time too. And some of it is just when you live in LA, you have a different relationship to these things. >> Right, you do also park for jury duty at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion.

So, you know, you want some and you lose some, yeah, you still haven't had to report, right? >> Well, please don't speak that into existence. >> Okay. I had to report. I made it up.

>> What, what were you, what were you from the criminal trial? >> Okay.

>> They'll never tax evasion or murder she wrote perhaps.

Okay. Any other news? Do you want to get off your chest? >> Mm. >> I think that's good.

I mean, again, we're forecasting into the future. >> Hopefully nothing crazy. >> Yes. >> We have so many movies to talk about. This was originally 10 movies we missed.

>> And you just kept adding. >> And then they became 15. And now I think it's closer to 17. I saw three new movies yesterday because I really did catching up. >> Yeah.

>> You did as well. >> You know, you can't say that the business might be in peril, but it is very active. There's a lot of stuff coming out. >> They're putting stuff out a lot and maybe too much if that makes sense. >> Because in the, they're streaming.

There is the catch-up from the 2025 kind of festival releases that get late distribution. And then there's just kind of your general work a day. Studio movies getting released in theaters. And so you put all three of those together. A show like this is so different than what Cisco and Amber would have done in 1995.

In 1995, you'd have four movies coming out and that's it. You'd cover three of them with some level of oversight. And then the fourth one would be a throw away. And then you'd be done. We're going to talk about 17 movies that have come out in the last three months.

We probably could have done another 17.

It's impossible to be totalizing about that.

And of course, you know, as a, as a complete, that's hard for me. >> And that's hard for me because we're going to talk about movies on this podcast that you have not seen, which is unusual and uncomfortable for you. But we just want to commend you on your bravery. >> And trying new things.

>> Thank you. >> And enjoying yourself in this new phase of your life. >> I, I intend. >> Right now, you're, as people are listening to this, you're on spring break. Are you having a good time?

Are you relaxed? >> If I'm doing this properly, I'm on a golf course right now in this episode comes out. >> All right.

“>> I can't promise that that's what's going to happen.”

But I have a tea time. >> That's beautiful. >> Buy yourself. >> Buy yourself. >> You're going to chat the people up.

Or you're going to put your, when you're doing solo tea time with other people. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I'm glad you knew that. >> I saw your going with that.

>> No, no. I, you know, I'm, I'm one with the force and the forces with me when I'm on the golf course. I really feel happy and calm. >> Thank you. >> And I'm, I'm in a dad era and I'm appreciating that part of myself.

I was born for it, so to speak. And love nature. I love state of California. >> Great. >> I'm very happy in the state of California.

>> Okay. >> There are many, many problems. >> And I intend to become, how many movies I watch? I don't know. I feel like I don't have to watch very many though because of what we're about to embark on here.

Let's just start. >> Okay.

“>> I think the first and most important movie for us to discuss is reminders of him.”

>> Mm-hm. >> We have been venturing on a Colleen Hoover adaptation series of discussions ever since the enormous success of it ends with us. Was that last summer? Last August?

>> The August before that? >> The August before that? >> It was before, I was born in my first podcast back. Was with Julia about the Blakely lawsuit. >> Interesting.

Okay. So it ends with us was a huge hit made almost $300 million a year. But even before that film was released, Hoover had become one of the most successful novelists of her time. And they're cranking them out now. >> Yeah.

>> This is, I think, the third prominent Hoover adaptation with a fourth in the company. On the way. >> Yes, Verity has been pitched as the bigger and better Colleen Hoover movie starring in half the way. This one is a little bit smaller. It is based on one of her 22 novels. It stars Michael Monroe, Tyreak Wither's Rudy Pankow, Lainey Wilson, the country singer in her film debut.

Nicholas Doverne, Lauren Graham, and Bradley Woodford as parents. God, we're so old. It's directed by Vanessa Caswell, the summary of the plot is as follows.

Desperate to rebuild her life with the daughter she's never known.

“Kenna finds unexpected compassion in a secret romance with local bar owner ledger.”

As danger develops for both of them, Kenna hopes to find a second chance amid unbearable heartbreak. What did you think of reminders of him? >> I just incredible new frontiers in not just baby names, but character names. I do feel that the Colleen Hoover universe teaches me about worlds that I don't have access to. Otherwise, I didn't know that there were the questionable grandparents naming their children DM.

I have to assume that it was the grandparents who gave the name. That wasn't one of the things that was addressed. >> It's not explored. We know that Michael Monroe's character is in a very nasty car crash and is convicted of manslaughter because her beloved is killed. And that car crash is pregnant at the time of the car crash.

And she goes to prison and she gives birth in prison, Waltston prison. Because in a hospital, Waltston prison. And then has to give the child up. And she gives the child up to her boyfriend's parents. But we don't know who names the child, the child is named DM.

>> Yes. >> Now, DM for for long time fans of the challenge. The real world road rules challenge. No, that there was a great competitor on that show called DM.

So this is not the first DM I've ever encountered.

But when you have the word ledger and DM as character names. >> Right. >> You do wonder if it's like a. If some Laura, Laura, I'm upset. >> Or just like if you've been hanging out at the bank too long.

Like what actually is happening on the social security name website right now. DM not in the top 1000 names. >> Okay. >> Kena 750 for the last couple of years. Which is up a little bit.

Ledger. Can you guess? >> I can't be top 2000. >> It's 502. It's ledger is by far the most popular.

It's like skyrocketing. It was 975 in 2017. >> Oh my god. >> And 502 and 24. >> That is absolutely fascinating.

I will say Kena, there was a great kind of like. Electro hip hop artist named Kena who are member from the late 2000s. >> Yeah.

>> 461. >> 466. >> Pretty good guess. >> Yeah. >> You're on a downward trip.

“>> You're pretty close to ledger, which is amazing.”

>> It's a little out of it. You know, broke the mold. >> That's where Amanda is. >> I'll say 262. >> Wow.

>> I know we're out. >> It's the most 80s name of all time. My house is Zachary and Amanda. It's really, really top. >> Yeah.

>> But it's okay. >> A lot of the graph might pull Steven. >> Yeah. >> You know, these names are going out. And you know what?

Good. Okay. A new generation of ledgers and DMs in. This movie is fascinatingly without incident. >> Yes.

>> It is barely a story. >> Yes. And thus, possibly the least objectionable ethically of the Colin Graver films and also my least favorite I would say.

“>> Well, so is that because of what you kind of go into these movies for?”

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This movie is a straight line. And very few of her stories based on what I've seen in the film adaptations are straight lines. It's just like pivoting backwards and hiding information from the audience.

And making you unsure of what's really going on. >> What kind of hit cocky in in a perverse way? >> Yes.

>> Where she's hiding critical pieces of information so that there's a big surprise.

>> And also everyone is pretty able to each other. >> Agreed. There's nothing ugly about it. This movie is really more of a pure melodrama. It actually kind of feels like a Douglas Stork movie where it's like something terrible

has happened. And there's a woman who wants to get back to her kid. Just about her straight line path that the only divergence is she falls in love with. Her dead boy friends best friend who was an NFL prospect at the time of this death. And has come back to town because of an injury to become a bar owner.

They fall in love. He's trying to keep that information from his dead friends parents. While they're looking after this five year old girl. Now, this is a movie with five year old girl. >> Yeah.

>> Very well cast young actor. >> She's very good. >> Very good in the film. And just I found it like not really emotionally connecting, but not ever evil or strange in a way that I have found these other movies.

And so it kind of just flows by you. >> And even though it does not have any of the celatiousness of the other Colleen Hoover films.

What is even the second one?

Oh, right. The Allison Williams one. >> We're good in you. >> Yeah, great in you. And they're having a fair and then they flashback.

>> That film is very bad. >> Yeah, but like in a silly tasteless way, that's pretty fun. When they actually do the flashback and Dave Franco is like D8. >> Yes, 37 year old Dave Franco is supposed to be 17. >> You know, you chuckle.

But so reminders of him doesn't have any of that absurdity. But it is still trying to do the hide the ball structure. And there it leads you on to what is supposed to be this major revelation that is not a revelation at all. And there's not even really any tension. It does set up the question of why are these grandparents like this,

“which is it's honestly some of the worst grandparenting I've ever seen in my entire life.”

>> It's the only like really weird thing in the movie where you've got,

first of all, also using Lauren Graham and Bradley Whitford.

>> Yeah. >> You know, Lauren Graham, of course, we will talk about Gilmore girls in this episode because of another film. But you know, Bradley Whitford known to be apoplectic as an actor from time to time. >> Sure. >> But there is like an intensity and weirdness in their caretaking of this child and their relationship to her mother that.

>> It's not matched by certainly by Ty Reakwethers as the best friend, which replacement son across the way who's also super handsome former NFL player who's building a home on the land. >> Yes. >> That he purchased with his NFL money, but he can't ever finish the home. >> Yeah.

>> Because I hate when I'm a business owner and a sick athlete who looks like Ty Reakwethers and I've had to step away from the game. And you know, I could probably have any girl I want in town, but I really need is the recently released convict who killed my best friend. It's just a huge bummer. >> But you know what, she's like like I'm in a row, what are you going to do? >> I could also feel that it was it I thought that this was maybe a fairish portrayal of a pretty unjust criminal justice system.

>> Yeah. >> But of course it's like I'm just to the sad white lady. >> Yeah. >> It does feel like a 50s movie where it's like through a series of misunderstandings someone has been put into this terrible situation. And they're really a good person deep down, but this bad thing happened wasn't their fault and they're screwed.

It's an interesting attempted pivot by Michael Monroe and actress that I love that is between Chris Ryan and I one of our girls. >> Yeah. >> The story that follows and many other horror movies over the last few years, you know, how to huge hit with long legs recently and she's attempting to get into a new lane.

I think some of her like slackness is a performer really works in scary movies. It doesn't quite play as well here. >> Well, she and Terry Quidders are on a different like energetic level than the grandparents. >> Yeah. >> And then and also like then the situation around them, which I guess enables their love affair.

But it does it doesn't match up. >> Terry Quidders has instantly joined the jock movie Hall of Fame because when you think about his his burly bro and I know what you did last summer.

His first round draft pick in him last year the horror movie and now this he's being tight cast a little bit.

>> Yeah, I guess so he can pull it off. >> He's been a lot of time talking about who is not a convincing athlete and asked to play athletes in films and yeah and he generally is appealing. He's also very speed with the little girl so that goes a lot. >> They are good together. >> Yeah, I know that stuff that got me.

>> Yeah, well sure, yeah, of course. >> Yeah, girl that. >> This movie is okay. It's like totally forgettable. >> I had forgotten it.

>> It's fine, again, it is like the least offensive and also the most boring of the the calling Hoover. >> Yeah. >> Adaptation.

“>> Well, do you think Verity will be enough of a big deal that it warrants its own episode of this show?”

>> I hope so.

I mean, we could also do.

We could do Verity and then we could do all the like the romance adaptations. We could do our long friend Nicholas Barks episode. >> Well, yeah. >> But listen, Verity, Dakota Johnson and Hathaway, Josh Hartnett directed by Michael show off there. >> Yeah, a lot of real people in the world.

>> I hope everybody came to play. >> Yeah, that was on MGM too. >> Let's go. >> Writing high off of this excessive project. Tell Mary.

Okay, let's pivot away from reminders of him. >> Speaking of romances. Kiki and house made too. >> I forgot to add that to the doc. >> Yeah.

>> So you're like, you're happy about this. Like your girls in her slot era and you're about it. >> She wants to be in her slot era. Also, the house made, which is not a calling Hoover adaptation, but is like, all of that literary mold way better than any other movies we just mentioned.

That's the most fun I've had. >> The house made is more fun. >> Yeah, and so I'm just hoping and house made to it. A man of Cypherd is apparently coming back, which is great for me. A man of Cypherd and Kirsten dance together, I say yes.

We just, we need to up our game from Brandon's Klanar. Like the next husband. It should be Ben Affleck, but he's too famous for that. Who's like 42, who's like Kirsten Dunst's age? Who would be a fit for this world?

>> I don't know how old everybody is anymore. >> I mean, it should be like a Chris Evans type. That's the kind of person who should be going into that spot. I feel like he could play that this material really well, rather than trying to do ghosting.

“Isn't this so funny that I'm doing a stupid movie like this?”

Actually, I'm making a shlocky erotic thriller that we can all laugh at in two popcorn. Anyway, another movie we've both seen, I presume. >> Yeah, oh yeah, of course. >> Is Paul McCartney man on the run? >> Yeah.

>> This is Morgan Neville's latest documentary.

His first of two documentaries this year about major figures in popular culture.

His next documentary is about Paul McCartney's friend, Lauren Michaels. Which comes out in April. This one, Documents McCartney's extraordinary life following the breakup of the Beatles and how the love he shared with his wife, Linda, became his bedrock and influence a journey that would lead to the formation of his band Wings.

>> Let's talk through your feelings on this. Okay, because this is, this is your not only like your music documentary world, but like this era of Paul is earlier to him. This means a lot to you. >> The first?

>> I mean, it not that it doesn't mean a lot to me, but there's a Beatles through and through. >> I'm Beatles through and through. >> You like solo Paul? >> Of course.

And also, like what I liked the most about this documentary was just once again seeing all the archival footage of them on the farm, looking shaggy and weird. And there is something idyllic about he just goes in the woods with Linda and shuts out the world and makes this music the way that he wants to.

I respect it. I would go crazy if I had to do that, but I think you would be very happy. This is what you want in life.

“I really think, I think Ram is one of the most inspiring pieces of art of all time.”

I'm utterly, I think Paul is a crazy person in a way that I relate to. And that he's like, I'm about my thing and that's it. Sometimes to the point of isolationism and ego-tism. And sometimes to the point, not in my case, but in his case of utter brilliance, that it creates this magic out of him that only he can tap into.

And this period that this movie is focused on has been a huge kind of area of personal study for me.

That's, I mean, I just know a little bit too much about this.

And I've listened to so many interviews with Paul about this period. And the McCartney Ram wildlife stretch and then the formation of wings. I've spent a lot of time with that music and it really means a lot to me. But I think this is pretty good. I think it's definitely very watchable.

“And if you are less of a psycho about Paul, I think you will learn a lot about his psychology and the aftermath of the Beatles.”

The movie does, I was curious how you felt about this.

It attempts to engage with the who broke up the Beatles and what was Paul and John's relationship like.

And I feel that there's been a lot of management around this. Over the last 20 years, particularly, we're sort of like, Yoko and Sean have worked very hard with Paul and Paul's family to make it clear that these two people did not hate each other. Right. That even when things were challenging and they were sniping each other when they were publicly beefing on record, like literally on the side that they still were blood brothers. How do you feel the movie like engaged with that?

Well, like many like most recent music documentaries, this is made with Paul McCartney's cooperation and involvement. And he is an executive producer. So I felt the management of everything from his side slightly.

And you know, it's not, I mean, it is public record that when they finally split with remind me the Wiley Managers name.

Yeah, quite, quite, quite when they are finally free or you know, the actual arrangement exactly. You know, that the archival clip of John Lennon being like, yeah, well, Paul was right is included prominently. Yes. And even when they show the clip of Paul being interviewed after John's murder, they have Sean Lennon narrating like his interpretation. It is interpretation of it and trying to make it smoother and better.

Paul famously gave this infamously gave this sort of like blank, disaffected interview. Maybe a day or less than a day after Lennon was murdered and it's, it's a little bit of a black mark on his. Yeah, it's legacy because he just seems so unfeeling. He, it ends with, yeah, it's a drag and then thank you, walks off. It's really, I mean, it's really, really.

But I, I did also feel that it was fair to him the way that Sean kind of characterized that that it was sort of like sure. This is a traumatic event and that this is a person who spent his life trying to protect himself and then these events you can't give people too much. Not be in front of the cameras totally, but there for every one of those, you know, the whole Linda can't sing thing, you have him talking about his view of it. It's every, every wrinkle is met with a very pro Paul repost, which is I mean, that's what it says on the label.

Yeah. So what are you going to do? And this is a pro Paul, you know, we're not anti John, but we are loved because this is a Paul. Ethan Hawke is right, you know, that you can't have a favorite beetle, that it's the, you know, what they made together, that is so beautiful. But I love a lot of what all of them made individually too. And I do think there's been a lot of work to explore what John made over the last 15 years or so that their multiple documentaries about his work.

Um, around imagine and around the um, the albums with Yoko and there's not as much of that with McCartney.

“There have been plenty of McCartney objects for us to engage with. Remember that Rick Rubin, who Lou movie where there's sort of like just going back and listening to the songs and kind of deconstructing them.”

And and Paul works his world works very hard to mythologize in perpetuity. This one, I think I, I might have preferred a little bit more of a tighter focus on like a year or two. This is my own personal interest. Yeah, to get a little bit to really like dig into this psychology a little bit rather than as you say, almost it's almost like they're knocking pins down. Whether like this year happened, this is how the band formed, this is how the band worked. I thought it was interesting the way that they talked about how he would dispense with members and that he had, he does have this kind of almost militaristic approach to going through the work.

And that's one of the things that did clearly disrupt the beetles, right, that Paul was like work work work and George was like, what about me? Yes, can I hang out a little bit? Yeah, you know, like I've got some feelings. Yeah, I got some ideas. Yeah, so I think it was like it was honest, but it was softened in 11 to your point. I do think, I mean, nobody is better than Morgan Neville, just making these movies kind of like glide by like he just his editing team and the way that these things are constructed and the way that he is able to kind of like put a little bit of a spell on the lead subject to get them to give you enough good stuff that you feel satisfied

“Very rare-erified air because I think they all trust him because they're partially having some handle on the material themselves, but I liked it. I liked it. I think it.”

If you're us, then you'll enjoy watching it.

Funny because on a future episode of blank check, you and I are featured on the, the new season of blank. Yes. But on a future episode, like I really personally explored because of the movie that I talked to. How appealing I find this period falls. No, I know that. You know, and how there's something about it that is really like calls to me.

I know. So, I mean, I did, I know that this is, it means something to you. It's part of how I understand you is that really you just want to be with the sheep in Scotland with Eileen and Alice. But then when I was watching that infamous interview, I was like, damn, when I die. Sean's going to talk just like this about me. I was just like this.

No, it's a drag, bye. And I'm like, and as I was watching, no, I was like, well, Sean Leningl is. Sean Leningl has some like very insightful, like psychological, you know, points here because you just feel like I can't deal with this. Sorry, it's a drag, bye.

“But privately, imagine what else I think.”

Exactly. I know. That's a very funny pivot. Okay. Let's talk about two movies that I, you didn't see either of these, right? No, I did it.

And they are inextricably linked in fascinating. So just, okay. Hang with you. Yeah, it's horror corner. There's the, there are the two big, I would say studio movies,

No, not Hail Mary Division over the last two weekends.

The first is ready or not to hear I come, which is the sequel to the 2019 Colt hit starring Samara Weaving.

And the other is they will kill you, which I just saw last night, which is directed by Carol Sokelov, which is a new Warner Brothers horror action movie starring Zazibites. These two movies are linked because they are the same movie. They are fascinatingly almost exactly the same in terms of what their plot is. The, one of them is the sequel, of course, but the sequel kind of expands its world to show that Samara Weaving,

whose character in the first film was hunted by her in-laws on the night of her wedding, because her in-laws were Satanists who were participating in Colt, in which happens to the best of us.

“I mean, you know, I, the part of the reason that first movie is a lot of fun is because that's how a lot of people feel when they enter a new family,”

where they're just like, are they still trying to kill me what the fuck is going on here? It was a really good joke stretched out, and used the deployed a lot of great gore, and speaking of wonderful kind of scream queen horror girls like Michael Monroe. Samara Weaving might be the best in the business.

So at first movie is a lot of fun.

This new one adds a bunch of new actors. Catherine Newton comes on us her sister, our beloved Sarah Michelle Gellers here, Sean Hadassie, from the pit, this year David Cronenberg, Elijah Wood, the movie picks up immediately after the first film, so she's drenched in blood, the house is burning down, she's wearing the wedding dress, and she's arrested and taken to the hospital, and the story goes from there.

She very quickly gets picked up and taken back and is brought into an expanded universe of Satanists that are trying to kill her. I think the movie is okay. I think it is like lost all of its novelty because we saw the first film.

“It's the same filmmakers, it's the radio silence guys who I've had on the show before, who I think are really talented.”

Some fun kills, there's some good creativity, Catherine Newton, another emerging scream queen, has good chemistry with Samara Weaving, but it's very hard for this movie to recapture what was special about the first film. In part because when characters fail in their efforts to kill the person who is meant to be killed on behalf of Satan, they explode into a giant pool of blood.

One of the amazing revelations of the first film, and then they play that note six times in this movie, and it's a lot less effective.

I wish this was better, it's not bad. If you like the first movie, it's okay time at the movies. They will kill you, is weirdly the same. It's about a woman who gets a job at a hotel slash like high rise as a maid. And the reason that she's got there is because someone is working there, who is very close to her, who she's attempting to rescue. But she doesn't fully realize that the people who own, operate and live in this high rise are also Satanists. And they need sacrifices to come into their space so they can kill them on behalf.

Let's still down on this little. So the people who own and operate the hotel also live in the hotel. It's more of an apartment building. So it's almost like a manner in a way because there is this sort of like maid service team. I'm trying to, oh, is it like assisted living? Like is everyone ever certain need? No, because it's, I mean, the other film stars of the film or Patricia Arquette had her Graham Tom Felton from the Harry Potter films.

Mahala from industry. So it's not old people.

There are hotels where that also offer residential services.

It's basically like a co-op.

“Okay. And it's like built on like systems portal. So Satan owns the co-op and then they work for Satan or is it a collective?”

I'm clear whose names on the deed. Okay. I'll say, I think the movie has the same idea. It's more like kill bill meets looney tunes in terms of how it's executed. It has some very fun action.

Mm-hmm. Zazib eats surprisingly excellent action heroin. She does a lot of machete killing. She does a lot of beating the shit out of people and exploding their heads. A lot of sought off shotgun blasts. Okay.

The movie has an energy and a real comic sensibility. It feels like Jodante at times. It feels like Sam Rami at times. Has a lot of stuff I like. But it's like barely applaud.

Barely. Okay. And at 94 minutes, I found it to be a little bit long. And it's just very weird that these movies came out at the same time. The director, sokolov, is super talented at the set pieces.

And some of the gore stuff. But it's just it's kind of like the deep impact Armageddon thing. We're like, how did this happen? Yeah. And then did they think very obviously like, okay, shit.

Well, they're putting their movie out here. We gotta put it out a week later so that we can like get a little taste of that or something. I'm not sure. I will say there were people were much more into they will kill you at my screening last night. Then we're into ready or not, too.

Well, that's the first week of it, right?

I saw both on opening night. I saw both on opening night with normal crowds. Okay. And this one clicked more maybe just because it seemed more new. Because it was a little bit more outsized.

Yeah. But neither of them are as good as I would hope that they would be. Okay. That's my report on those two movies. Okay.

I don't I think you can skip them. Yeah. Once they were described as like gory horror movies, they're for the kills not for the you know intricate psychological. Yeah.

Neither of them really explore. Exploration and blocking. I hope somewhere we think it's a really great movie soon though. I think she's pretty special.

“I think she's got incredible screen presence.”

You know, most amusingly. Utilized in Babylon when she comes on is like the Margo Robbie looking girl. Right. Yeah. The Margo Robbie on the seats, which I think is one of the best jokes in that movie.

Okay. Next movie. Yeah. You mid-winter break. You didn't get to this is adapted from a novel that I have not read.

Directed by polyphenate and it stars Leslie Mountainville and Karen Hines. And yeah, it's a shame you didn't get to see this because this is it's about like an older couple empty nesters. And then they go on vacation to Amsterdam and then some revelations about their inner lives and their relationship. And how are they going to deal with them?

But it's basically about Irish Catholic guilt.

But this time here's the twist. A woman. So I was just like what's happening here for. I just like Leslie Manville get it together. Honestly.

And that's not fair. She's working through her things in her own time and obviously both actors are wonderful. But it's like a lot more about religious guilt than I tend to relate to. Women really can have it all now. We really can.

It really feels like a classic.

“The seniors at the Lincoln Center film like movie theater that I think sadly since closed on an afternoon.”

This is this is made for them and it's not bad, but I didn't I'm not at that phase of my life. Yeah. And I don't know if I ever will be angelic accord to. Yeah. Yeah.

I love these two actors. They're they're very good. I intend to see this because I do have a soft spot for. I think these movies are kind of like the aspirational is not the word. But like 45 years and your case movie is is I presume much better version of this movie.

The thing is that it's just. There's not a ton of revelation in it honestly besides the religious stuff. And, you know, your mileage will vary on that. Okay. But maybe yours won't.

Let's talk about the AI doc. Okay. I made a last minute choice to see this as well as they will kill you last night. Okay. And I really wanted to see it for a couple of reasons.

The full title. You love AI. Well, I think that there's probably a bigger conversation about it that we we need to have. Just by the nature of industrial design right now, this movie is much bigger than what is happening in the world of movies. But the AI doc or how I became an apocalypticist is the new film from Daniel Roar and Charlie Tyrell.

Daniel Roar last seen winning the Academy Award for Navalny. And he was already on this show.

which is about a piano tuner who gets insneared in a criminal enterprise. And he's a very, very good movie. Surprisingly good for a guy who hasn't made a scripted feature before. This new movie is a pure doc. Hoping to figure out what's happening with artificial intelligence, a father to be embarked on an eye-opening journey to learn more about the most powerful technology humanity has ever created in what's at stake if we get it wrong.

On the surface, this is a very standard doc style where he brings in well over a dozen experts in all directions.

Scientists and academics and also critical leaders in Silicon Valley and doomers and optimistic voices and folks in politics all to kind of get this survey of this moment that we find ourselves in.

And he shoots it through the prism of, "I'm about to have a kid and what's going to happen in my kid." And very early on in the film, one of the people says, "Most of the AI risk people that I speak to say that your child will not make it to their teens because of what AI will do." And then there are all these other people where we are on the brink of as close to a utopian existence as we will ever have in this country when you look at what genome mapping will be able to do, how we'll be able to handle the environment so on and so forth.

It's very hard virtually impossible to get your arms around this entire subject in a 95 minute documentary.

“Right. It does a pretty good, it really is AI for dummies in a way that I think has it really utility in terms of explaining to the lay person.”

Not just what AI is because a lot of people just use chatty GPT or they did use Sora till this shut Sora down.

And they are using it with Gemini and they are using it in a lot of these AI assistance that appear on a lot of different services. They're using it when they go to the hospital or the doctor. So it's already integrated into people's lives. But I think the movie is good about explaining both the ecological impact and then the human impact, the geopolitical impact, a lot of potentialities. The movie kind of resists having a final say beyond, I hope it's okay. And that's probably the right choice. Did you also become an apocalyptic artist?

You know, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this and I didn't want to talk to you about how you think about it because there's the very obvious reactionary. This is terrible. This is ruining art and I hate it. And then there's also the crude capitalist. It's happened in no matter what, except it, it's going to run things and it's going to do so in a way that we can control. And as with most things, I tend to fall in the middle of this. Like I see the ways in which I can improve things and I see the ways in which I can really damage people.

I don't feel like I'm an apocalyptic fearing person about this. I don't wake up scared about it, but I'm an optimist about it virtually nothing. So, how do you feel about it?

“I mean, I think that the reality is somewhere in the middle and that's where I am as well.”

I mean, I don't wake up fearing sky-nut. I have no interest and not just an acute Jacobalorty, like I'd rather be sunburned on the beach kissing sort of way. But I was talking with my husband about this in terms of AI assistance recently and people using them to do kind of some of the mundane computer tasks or scheduling or all sorts of things. And I was like, I don't, I also don't, I would not be, I don't have an assistant and I wouldn't be a good assistant because I'm not good at delegating because then you just have to do it again yourself.

And so, there is an element to all of this where I just don't, it will always, it will be technology that if it's trained appropriately.

It's just like the next thing that could make your life easier in some ways or could do other things and then will also not be as good at other stuff. And, you know, is it ruining art, yes, but also like plenty of other things we're ruining art before. So again, I don't, it's not awesome. One thing I don't, I don't willingly use it. I don't, I don't either, I'm not a chatGPT person, I don't, I try not to rely on things like Gemini when I'm doing searches.

“I think that it's obviously been built into our lives in ways that we don't see as well.”

There's a lot that is happening that is assisting us in all kinds of ways that we don't realize. One thing the movie does well is that it locates this really core kernel idea. That there's more or less five people that are making these decisions about how this is working. And that these five people are in a race to unlock AGI rather than just AGI. And AGI is this kind of elevated independent operating power.

This, like, you know, it's represented in the film is almost like this Rubik's Cube that lights up.

And maybe in fact, if handled correctly with the right safety provisions becomes this all-knowing problem solver for us.

But these five people, I won't be able to remember all of them. But obviously, Sam, all minute open AI, you've got the folks at Google DeepMind, you've got meta, you've got anthropic. And I believe you've got Microsoft AI, those are sort of like the five power players in this space.

“And that what's really scary is that the best way to move quickly in this race is to remove safety.”

And if you remove safety, you can get to the endpoint quicker. And then you will be deemed the winner of the race. And then you can control the landscape. Now, these five people, these are all American companies or companies that are mostly American. You've also got the Chinese government, you've got, you know, UAE and Saudi Arabia.

You've got North Korea and South Korea, you've got all these competing forces, you've got who's able to manufacture chips. Like, it's a broad geopolitical landscape, you have to consider. And at some point, the chips depend on resources. And most of which are made in Taiwan, which is controlled by China, US doesn't like how can China control.

So there's a million different factors that come into it.

But I like that the movie really boils this down to these five guys. Mm-hmm. The buck kind of stops with them. And if they don't, if they don't exist or operate, it isn't, it's XAI. As the one I'm thinking of, it's not Microsoft, XAI as Elon Musk's company. Who was formally involved with open AI and then felt that Sam Altman was not acting safely enough. So he started his own company, kind of parrot ox onto itself.

Okay. It's unusual. Yeah. Someone makes this point in the film that is so powerful, which is that there are more rules and regulations around selling a sandwich than there are around building AI technology. Yeah, I mean, this is true. Certainly of Silicon Valley and of every new technology. And, you know, in some ways, it's the social network, which it is just there. Here is a person who figured out something and an unregulated market that changes the way that we operate our world and each other.

“And, and the social network dares to ask, is that the person we want in charge of things or this is what it looks like?”

Yeah. And, you know, I don't know any of those, I assume they're all gentlemen. The three, they're all men. Yeah. Three of the five men sit for the film.

Yeah, I don't know them, but I, I'm assuming I would not elect them to be in charge of reshaping how we interact with the world. There's one fascinating revelation in the movie or just sort of moment in the movie where, you know, Daniel appears on camera in the movie and he's kind of, he's really using his personal experience. His wife is in the film, you know, talking through her pregnancy, she's a filmmaker in her own right. She's kind of like helping him make the movie and being like, you can't do this, you fucking idiot.

Yeah. It's charming like construction, but Sam Altman appears near the end of the film. He sits for an interview and he has been become a, arguably, the most talked about leader. Corporate leader in America this year. Hi, he is the new Mark Zuckerberg. He even has a new, like he has his own social network coming out at the end of this year. He does.

And he was in the movie news this week with the Disney revelation around open AI and Sora.

But anyhow, he sits for the film and Dan, Dan turns it and he's like, hey man, like, I'm making this film because I have all of this anxiety and concern about this because I'm having my first child.

And I'm, and I'm nervous and Sam Altman says, oh, I'm having my first kid too in March. And then we get to see Sam Altman explain his feelings about this world through that prison of he is also now, indicted, involved, is centralized in his family lineage through whatever he creates, whatever he chooses to do. And there's a feeling that open AI is ahead, that they're, they're ahead of everybody right now. And that if they unlock the final piece of the puzzle, I'm a little dubious about it, whether there is a final piece of the puzzle and we'll keep having these races.

Because that benefits stock prices, but nevertheless, there's a couple of strokes in the movie that are really smart. It's like, it's very much worth seeing, but don't expect to come out of it feeling like you got your arms around it and this is how we should feel right. At the same time, it feels, you know, how I became an apocalypse, which first of all is just very hard to say, but that was not designed with podcasts in mind. But that is probably off putting to a slice of people who are AI skeptical, but it doesn't sound like it's an advertisement for these people in the way that the title would suggest.

It doesn't do them any favors. It doesn't let them off the hook.

“I think he does a good job casting a few journalists who are like, this is crazy that this is happening.”

You know, very bluntly explaining how wild what is happening is happening. It's worth checking out, though, because this is, I think this is the flashpoint issue in the American economy in American culture.

It can be seen in the movie at certain times.

He's also somebody who explores science fiction, seems to be very interested. Anyway, I would recommend it. It is an imperfect documentary and feels very different from Navalny in terms of how it's been made, but it is very, very interesting. Why don't we talk about a private life now? Which you have seen part of, and I started it and couldn't finish it before the end of this episode, unfortunately.

“So this is directed by, and I believe written by Rebecca Latowski.”

And is a French film starring Jodie Foster, who is acting mostly in French. She is that she plays an American woman psychiatrist living in Paris, and is married to Daniela Toy, a Frenchman. And mostly sees clients in French, but every once in a while when she's pissed off, she like mutters under her breath in English. And the rest of the cast is French, and the setup, the premise is one of her patients dies, and then she decides to investigate this suspicious death. That makes it sound more like a murder podcast murder.

She wrote undertaking than it is, which is as a weird, slightly Woody Allen asked, like slice of French life. I mean, there's just like a lot of psychoanalysis. And at one point, she accuses a hypnotist of being an esmetic, because she questions for its practices, or if I'm natural motivations. But it's more about the Jodie Foster character. And as it goes on, gets a little shaggyer and a little bit more about her life. And if you will private life, then about solving this murder case.

So that ultimately is solved, I think. It's a little all over the place at a very charming way.

Okay. I mentioned to you that Frederick Weisman makes it the late great, makes a cameo, as her as Jodie Foster's psychiatrist. I had assumed that that's who he would be playing. And gives her some real talk and is wonderful. There's a scene with a hypnotist, which I thought was pretty cool. And it lingers a bit longer in the places where movies like this don't.

“Or I think more traditional thrillers don't linger.”

It really is as much about a psychiatrist or also just about how people are weird and how the French people are weird. And again, it's filmed in Paris in what looked like real apartments and cafes and on the street. I was kind of into it. I think maybe Jodie Foster is the wink link. We cling. Wow. Well, because there is, towards the back half, they're trying to do something slightly comedic.

And I don't know what in the beginning was what I saw was very comedic. It did feel a little bit like they dropped Jodie Foster into a late period of Olivia. Yes, that's the other one that's the other. But I am, and I, and I felt like someone who could handle the comedy of it in a little, like more open way would have made more sense. I kept thinking about Kristen Scott Thomas, another person who's my favorite, also does act in French and English. But Jodie Foster is very good.

Yeah, the one thing I had heard because I believe this played telly ride when I was there.

“And I didn't get a chance to see it there. And I really wanted to.”

Jodie Foster was very present at telly ride. I was online with her many times. Was that she was great in this movie and the movie was a little baggy. And so that's kind of the opposite of what you're sharing. I mean, it's what you were sparring to in the movie, right? Like if you, she is very good.

Jodie Foster is always good. But Jodie Foster is in one movie.

And as you said, they're all making another, you know, shaggy French movie. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I'm going to, you know, I will finish this. Without spoiling it Matthew, I'm like, just is, is, is making love to someone. I was going to use a different word. And it's filmed as a different word to some lady. Like, and they're like, on a porch in a random, like French port town.

And Jodie Foster and Daniela Toy are like, under the bushes watching. And they just go for it or while like naked in the moonlight. And I said, well, this is, it's not something you see in an American movie. That's true. That's very French. Matthew, I'm Mark. He's got to be like 65 years old. God bless him. Yeah. And they're both like quite naked.

And they do like a moon salutation at the end after after they finish what they're doing. Unbelievable. Yeah. It's great stuff. This episode is brought to you by fire TV. You've been there settling in for relaxing evening of TV. Only to waste half the night scrolling through options enter fire TV.

It's entertainment with zero effort required. Fire TV serves up personalized recommendations from across all your apps all in one place. Not sure what to watch next. Just tell Alexa plus what you're in the mood for, and she'll put up the perfect recommendation problem solved.

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“Let me tell you a good luck how fun don't die.”

I just feel to you about AI. Under normal circumstances, this would be one of the five most anticipated or most excited movies of the year for me.

It's the first movie in many years from Gorver Binski who was one of the very first guests on this podcast.

When he was here for a cure for wellness, this is his first movie since. Start Sam Rockwell, Hayley, New Richardson and other favorite Michael Payneas as he beats again. A frenzy time traveler enters a diner attempting to stop an AI apocalypse having already failed over 100 times. He recruits an unlikely group including a bereaved mother terrorized teachers and a woman with a severe technology allergy. Does that mean that she hates it like me or she but it she doesn't mean like an epipend.

No, she hates it. She's a version. But an epipend could also be an allergy. I can't remember.

I saw the film in January so I can't recall specificity.

Just like a horror film, because then at some point you're stuck. That's a good idea for horror film. I think when you look at this movie and there's another movie that is out right now called Undertone, which is about a podcast host, a pair of podcast hosts who are getting messages into their kind of call in murder talk show. It has been a recent hit. I saw that film last year before it was picked up by a 24 to since been picked up by a 24 and went into theaters and had some success.

And you look at the AI doc and look at mission impossible. Yeah, and just kind of the the angst and anxiety that is being generated by what we don't know the technology is doing to us. It is a moment in time and then in the same way when you go back and look at 70 science fiction and you say, oh, like well, this speaks to concern about this, you know, what do Silent Running and Swimling Green have in common? They're both kind of like eco terror movies, but they're done in different ways or phase four.

“You can kind of draw all these parallels and illusions, but also I think it's important to just like drill down on the movie itself.”

And good luck how fun don't die seems like it will be so fun and it's just not that fun and I think it's the script is not as strong as I would have wanted it to be. For Benzky famously one of the great shot makers in movies, but this movie is like not lit as beautifully as his previous films. I don't feel like all the set pieces work as well. I fucking love Sam Rockwell and I found him a little bit grating in the movie. And you know, when he decides just to show up and do Sam Rockwell for the tech, again, no judgment.

This movie required a lot of him and I you know, I feel like he just slightly missed the mark on how to play the character. Where it's like feels a little bit like Robert Downey Jr. kind of motor mouthing his way. It's not it I thought it really like reduced the stakes and I think for Benzky's usually good at the stakes like he made the ring, which is fucking terrifying. And he knows how to play it straight and he knows how to do gags and this was maybe a little bit more gag than straight for my taste.

And it pains me to say that because I'm just such a big fan of his. And this movie kind of came and went and I think it kind of came and went for a reason. Underton is kind of the opposite. It's like a person we've not heard of before Ian Tuison, who had experience taking care of his parents as they were getting older that inspired this movie. And the woman in this movie who's one of the podcast host, St. Carver Mom, she learns that she's pregnant and all these ideas about not like motherhood, but like kind of parenthood and legacy or on her mind, which is none of the non seeing them in like a trauma born way.

And the movie is worth seeing. I didn't see it in a movie theater. I saw it at home on a link when it was being passed around after horror film festival. Somebody sent it to me, which is like you got to watch this. Because it's a tiny movie made for less than $500,000. And the sound design is incredible. And it's all about a person who's like wearing headphones, talking into a microphone, taking calls, being alone in a house. That aspect of the works really well. I'll bet that works well in a movie theater.

There's also just a lot of like cheap jump scares and annoying or stuff to your point that I don't think you would love this.

“I think it is. It feels a little bit too slickly designed, but I also feel like he into a sense of going to make like a lot of horror movies and be very successful.”

And I'm really smart piece of business by 24 who I think bought it for half a million dollars and it's going to end up making like 20 million bucks the box office.

So in case you're wondering how that keep making some of these movies that don't always head.

Good piece of business. Can we talk about horror movie titles for a second? Sure. They will kill you ready or not to hear it come or ready or not. Good luck. Have fun. Don't die. We're entering like Nancy Myers territory here. These are all the same movie. You know, they're all like very actionable like direct to camera taken from an internet comment. Well, don't forget about now you see me now you don't.

Well, sure, but that's not a horror movie. That's about. Well, it was horrifying to me and to all South Africans. That's that's who you want to be grouped with. That's necessarily okay. I mean, there are many fine people in South Africa. I just I do think that we are. I mean, maybe this is the intentional.

You know, I'm going to talk to you movie is out. I'll go see it this way.

But these are.

“Indistinguishable. I think those three movies.”

Good luck is a little bit more sci-fi than horror though. It does have horror elements. I would say, but those three movies. It's interesting to group them together. They are wink or they are we're doing a lot of gags. Yeah. There's not a comedy, but there's a lot of funny stuff in them.

Undertone is the opposite. Undertone is an unsettling quiet scary movie. Well, I didn't group undertone in that. I know, but I think that this potentially a problem to keep making horror movies that are like this. It's like, we're all having fun, right? Yeah, that's not I can work.

If you're Sam Remy, it works if you're not, then it's a little bit more challenging. If they're good, and then people will just sign up for the next one, then it's fine. But it does sound like these were three mid-link movies that all sound. And in some ways are the same in terms of satinists. And an AI satinist, we don't know.

Group together, I think. They could be. Let's talk about our hero, Balthazar. Yeah. Um, this is a new film directed by Oscar Boyson who's probably best known for being a producer on that first stretch of Safty Brothers movies. It stars Jaden Martell, Ace of Butterfield, Chris Bauer, Jennifer Ely,

and a parish in a cup, Noah Centanello. It's about a wealthy teenager who tries to gain his crushes attention by posting videos, pleading for stricter gun laws. As an online troll begins mocking his videos, he becomes convinced the troll is a mass shooter and travels to Texas to confront him. Yeah, I was very happy to hear that you were watching this movie.

Yes, I did. I completed it. Yeah. What, what did you think of this? I, this movie bugged me in the right way.

“And it was clearly meant to put you on edge and have that feeling of like, wait, are you guys really doing this?”

And no, and come on, but then was always able to grab me back in.

Um, not a consistent tone, but like a consistent commitment to its bit, which I appreciated even if I was annoyed by it. It's funny that there's a movie about a troll that is very trolled. Yes. Yes. But, but also because it is trolley and it stays trolley and never lets up on the gas or tries to make like a sincere point.

I, I was reminded, I suppose, because of the school shootings of a Vox Lux, which is a movie that at some point, it's not a part of the movie. It's not a part of the movie. It's not a part of the movie. It's not a part of the movie.

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“I think what Boison is doing, you can see kind of in the roots of the New York movies”

that he made to. But him kind of going outside of that. And it doesn't move you about kind of the online experience versus real life. We've seen a lot of movies about that in the last five or ten years. But this had kind of like a dinginess that I really enjoyed.

Yeah. And it didn't feel like it was like cultural tourism. Like it didn't feel like it was making fun of people. Like I thought he had like empathy is not the right word. But like an authenticity.

Maybe to how that can be true. It is also a very online movie. At least in its subject matter. That does manage to create a world in Texas outside of of the computers and the screens. And I mean that both in terms of the actual filmmaking.

Again, the first 20 minutes because the the baths are characters.

Like a wanna be influencer. And so he's doing videos and he's got the ring light. And you're watching the Instagram comments. And I was like, oh no.

Yes. It.

“It manages to stream scenario or something.”

Yeah. And they're just kind of like, you know, I spend enough time and Instagram comments. Like on my own time. But it does manage to get it off the screens. Even as like their relationship is really built around.

When they're in the party, they're like, this is the movie. Yeah. This is like standby me for a fucked up generation. There's two movies that I personally want to put a big circle around. Yeah.

And I will speak about them briefly. There's Redux Redux, which was only barely on my radar because it had premieres at horror film festivals or you know genre film festivals last fall. It just hit BOD. It stars a woman in mechanic madness. It's directed by her brothers, Matthew and Kevin McMannis.

We'll be talking about time travel. Very soon. And a movie on this list. This is also a time travel movie in a very different register than that one. It's about a distraught woman who travels through parallel universes to kill her daughters murder over and over again.

With each death she grows more and more addicted to revenge, putting her own humanity in jeopardy. Parallel universes movie feels like a very high concept movie, but it's a very small indie. The time machine that is used in the movie is very low-fi. The effects work is very clean and simple. It's a family-made movie.

And I think it's incredibly effective.

And the main performance by McKaylon McManus is super powerful.

It feels like, this is maybe overstating it, but it feels like Jim Cameron in 1982 where you're like, "Oh, this guy's about to do something when somebody gives him money." It doesn't have the same level of style and attitude that the Terminator does. But it's aware of movie history, but it's not really riffing on movie history. And it has this core idea, which is really good, which is, if someone did something terrible to you,

“the worst thing imaginable, how would you get revenge in eternity?”

And what would happen to you if you kept doing this? 10 times, 50 times, a hundred times, a thousand times. Right. How would you do it? Where would you do it? Why would you do it? And how would you get addicted to it and what would that mean for your humanity? It's just a great idea for a movie. Again, not perfect.

Yeah. A little draggy at times, but very good performances. And very, I think very worth people's time. And like, this is a movie if I was working as a movie studio executive. I would be calling these guys and be like, what are the ideas do you have?

Because we should, we can cook together. Stop giving this stuff away, you know? Well, I want people to watch a movie. I think it's really cool. Okay, what do you want to do next? You want to hear about piggy blinders?

I watched it. You did watch it. Okay. But you have not seen any of the show.

I've never seen the show.

Nor have I. So this is one of the most popular television shows in Netflix history. It famously stars Killian Murphy was created by Steven Knight, the very successful screenwriter who is writing the new Bond movie. Is that right?

I don't know. Amy hasn't called me lately. Okay. So the movie is called Piggy Blinders. The Immortal Man is directed by Tom Harper who directed my beloved wild rose and the Aeronauts and a number of other films.

In addition to Killian Murphy, it stars Rebecca Ferguson. Bear Killian. So if you rundle Steven Graham, some of these people are coming back. Some of them are coming in for the first time. Tim Roth coming in for the first time.

Yeah. He plays a Brit who is working for the Nazis. A Nazi sympathizer who is bringing a currency into the UK so that it can be spread throughout the economy in the UK and thus destroy the economy. Right.

Making England even more vulnerable to the Nazi regime. That is attempting to overtake Western Europe.

So we've never seen the show.

Yeah. I did text a bit with Chris Ryan. I texted with Julie at live in and I pulled up my text to get some copies. Sure. Did you like it?

I wasn't mad at Killian Murphy doing bad openheimer though. Bad is question marks around that. Whether he's just doing openheimer looking, you know, a distraught and wornfully and like what have I done at the camera and close up with some decent wallpaper on the house set behind him.

Happy for Rebecca Ferguson who keeps collecting checks. Apparently she was not in previous piki binders episodes. No. She's playing a twin. She's playing a twin though.

“So that's why I thought, oh, that would be smart.”

If she if her original character had been on the show and I don't know why they couldn't back someone who had been on the show. I guess when you can get Rebecca Ferguson, you can get Rebecca Ferguson. Um, this is going to be the most boring movie ever that features Killian Murphy and Rebecca Ferguson fucking in a scene.

That's true. Like, and like she's and she is pretending to be inhabited by her dead twin sisters ghost when they are fucking. And that's why I was trying to be family.

Yeah. Yeah. I just really wish. Okay.

“This show, as I understand it, is basically British guys and chalk stripe suits.”

Shooting Tommy guns in slow motion set to like interpole. Yes. And then having like sadness about that. Right. And that's kind of what the show is.

Tom Hardy was a part of the show. He's not in this film. Um, I think it's like very stupid, but it is also one stitch away from things that are my favorite things in the world. So I don't, I don't want to judge it too much.

I got it. What we watched was the TV movie finale of a TV show. And we watched that in, in terms of like the concept and the content of the show, which is people who we think are hot having conversations. Barry Kogan just like doing crime 101 again, but for good.

Um, and that ultimately spoiler alert, I guess.

And then, um, and then the shootouts to the bad to me music played very loudly. You know, everyone's just like on various TV sets as they were it on piki blinders. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. You and I are proud defenders of all three down and abby movies.

Um, which again, our TV shows that then had multiple movies as a cap as a caper. Yes. So that's fine. That's just, that's what this is. Killian Murphy was available for one feature film and not any more seasons of the show.

And so that's what they made. Yeah. Bless you. It. It's not.

Can I ask, can I tell you what I asked Juliet? This is my first question. Yes. Early cue.

Are they piki blinders bad or good?

What was the answer? Um, they are a murderous gang but they have been anti-fascism, anti-Soviet and anti-Selling of illegal guns in England post world one. Okay. Which is, which is in line. Ultimately anti-heroes.

Yeah. Yeah. They're part of the post-Suppranos wave of television about complicated men who do bad things. Yeah. And they are also friends to the marginalized.

Yeah. And they have Romani roots so they themselves come from marginalized people. Yeah. It's very interesting that this is the most popular movie on Netflix right now. That this shows as big as it is because it is a fancy and well-made period piece.

You know, it's a crime movie. Yeah. But it is the bones of it are pretty interesting. This did feel like then kind of like ringing out, as you say, like one last droplet of content from this 70 episode television show. Um, but it seems like people like it.

Like it. You know, we're looking at the state of the art here. Yeah. This is what movies are all about right now. Yeah.

This is the immortal man.

“Uh, you didn't take your child to see goat, did you?”

I tried. Uh, I tried to do this on my day, but my husband was like, no, you will come to the grocery store with me and my and our other child. Um, you know, I got to say I liked it.

And, uh, I was a little dubious of this film, which is one of the biggest movies of the year as about to cross a hundred million dollars of the box office and original animated feature.

Produced by Stefan Curry directed by Tyre Dillahe. I did take my daughter to see it. Yeah. Lovely afternoon seeing the movie. Um, it is about a small goat named Will, who gets a once in a lifetime shot to join the pros and play, quote, "roar ball."

Which is a modified version of the basket ball. That's very hard for me to say. Roar ball. Yes. It's a high intensity full contact sport that's dominated by the fastest, fiercest animals in the world.

Okay. Ridiculed by his teammates, Will becomes determined to revolutionize the sport and prove that "small can ball." Okay. But so multi-species. All species, including on each team is not defined by species.

Is there a correlation between, like, do bears play, like, power of the word? Power of the word? Yeah. I don't know which one to match. There's a giraffe on Will's team.

The lead figure. Okay. One, it's the animated well. Very good voice performances. Nicole in particular is a commoto dragon.

It's hilarious in the movie. Pat Nozwald's there. Jelly Roll is there. Gabriel Union, Aaron Pierre. A lot of really good voice performances.

The main character that is not Will is jet.

“And jet is, I think, a black Panther or a Jaguar, a black cat.”

Okay. And it's very clear to me, or at least it seems clear to me. And I don't even, I haven't read any reviews of this movie. I don't know if people are saying this. That this is an amazingly subtle shot at LeBron James by Stephen Curry.

We're jet, a female character.

“But very clearly in the LeBron James mold of a multi-year veteran who's never really won the big one.”

But who likes to play in their own very particular style. And that is a very egocentric style is being forced to be introduced to this smaller style. But this new teammate who seems like a stunt, but actually might be able to extend his or her career.

Now, obviously, Stephen LeBron never played together.

But the way that the jet character is positioned. I would, I feel like there's a little bit of a like whose generation of basketball was this really going on. I've got it. Stephen LeBron have both produced films. They've both gotten into this space.

They've both won titles. They famously went back and forth over a number of years with the warriors and the calves. Well, sure. Then the goat is right there in the title. Is it that subtle?

It's called goat. It's not subtle at all. Yeah. And yet to me, it feels like the primary engine of the movie. That I'm like, I can only see it through this prison. My daughter, of course, has no idea what any of that is. And she's just like, "Jet is my favorite character because that's a cool black cat."

But if, if you could get Stephen Curry some truth serum to discuss this, it would be the best podcast of all time. Well, I'm isn't that true in general about all athletes, but even Steph Curry, if you could get them some truth serum. Yes.

“Some real stuff would come out. So I'm looking here at the Wikipedia page for goat just to figure out the various species involved. And there's a lot of specificity here. So.”

Okay.

Will is an American pig me goat.

Okay. Jet is a black panther. Maine attraction voiced by Aaron Pierre is an Andalusian horse. Mm-hmm. Nicola Coffland plays an, is an ostrich, just a regular.

Maine attraction, by the way, is the real heavy of the movie. He's the bad guy. Um, Archie David Harbor is an Indian rhinoceros. Mm-hmm. He's very good. He has to come motor try and which I do know is real because they're in Skyfall. And, um, but can I just tell you something?

My father-in-law learned independently, like not from our podcast because he doesn't listen. He doesn't listen. I love you rich and that's okay. I don't, you don't have to listen. He doesn't hear you. Um, he was like, I just learned that Wolverines are real.

That totally independently, don't know. I swear to you. No.

Zack made himself and he was like, man, I come back inside so you can hear this.

I don't know what's tell you. No, it's something got in his algorithm. I don't think rich has an algorithm. I don't know.

“I think they went to like hunting in Garden or some of these, I don't know.”

They don't have Wolverines in hunting in Garden. Well, maybe they haven't exhibit. Okay. Um, wart hog. I know what that is.

Hard wolf, is that a real thing? Yes. They're all real. Uh, copybara. I know what that is. Everything else.

No, no, no, no, no animals here. I got to say, I see a lot of animated movies. Yeah. This was way better than I expected. Okay.

And I would recommend it to families. A musk ox and bat duo. Chuck and Rusty. Oh, they're commentators. Okay. That looks like sort of, two-month-in-pumba ripoff, but that's okay.

There are some two-month-in-pumba that are anti-nouncers, but there's some good interplay there. Uh, did you see Miruar to number three? No, I guess. I know.

This is like the best movie of the year. Yeah. Okay. You got to see this one. I will.

If it's not the best, it is one of the most interesting by far. It was a festival movie last year. It's a new film from Christian Petzold. It's like 87 minutes. Um, it stars Polybear as it's last few films have.

Barbara. Uh, it's about a woman who gets into a car crash on a country road. I guess it takes place in Germany. Um, because all of his films take place in Germany for the most part.

And she, her partner dies. And she is retrieved by this woman who is, um, living in a country house not far from the car accident. And she, the Polybear is disoriented. And she goes and she goes to live with them. She kind of recuperates from two days.

And then two days becomes four days, four days becomes eight days. And she becomes a little bit more entrenched than the lives of this family. The husband and the son work as sort of mechanics who break the rules and certain car designs. So people can break the controls that certain car manufacturers create. And the movie is very small, simple and quiet.

And is also pure hitchcock. Like, little vertigo, a little shadow of a doubt. We don't know who we're supposed to be trusting. We don't really know what's going on with the family and why. Petzold, one of the European masters.

This is easily the, like, smallest most stripped down movies ever made. I had been told that he, this was going to be the last movie that he and Paul beer made together. They made, um, Dina and a fire and a number of movies over a few years. And she took over for Nina Hoss, who had been the star of, like, five Petzold movies before that. But then Petzold just gave an interview and he said he wants this next movie is going to be with Nina Hoss and Polybear.

And very modest, so don't get your hopes up in terms of, like, the answer to it.

“But I think very, very good. And I highly encourage people to see it.”

It's still in theaters, but probably won't be for long. And I wanted to give a little love to it before we, uh, get through the first quarter. Okay, tell me about Mark by Sophia. This all this in Venice, um, and I got to be in the same room as Sophia Coppola, who directed this A24 documentary about her friend.

And I, uh, essential 90s fashion designer who's still working Mark Jacobs.

Um, did you wear, where, where are you in Mark Jacobs? I've never owned a piece by him. I have nothing against them in. Okay. I don't know very much about him. But you'd like, you never went into any of the stories. I don't know if it's still there. What's, what's going on?

I'm not really sure. I don't know if it's still there. What's going on? I'm not sure.

I don't know if it's still there. What's going on? I'm not sure.

I don't know if it's still there. What's going on? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's still there. What's going on? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's still there. What's going on? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's still there. What's going on? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's still there. What's going on? I'm not sure.

I don't know if it's still there. What's going on? I'm not sure. I don't know. I would say the Mark Jacobs, the business has taken some turns and recent years, and it is not as central to like a certain type of cool pop culture as it was in the late 90s and early 2000s when we were paying attention. Why is that? Because a fashion is a fickle business, I think. And he's not owned by a conglomerate. I don't know. It's a whole other situation. But I'm just saying that, perhaps, the younger people in the boost or at home, Mark Jacobs was like a real thing.

And he and Sophia Copola have been very closely linked for many, many years when she won her Oscar. She was wearing a custom Mark Jacobs dress. So this is 90s and early 2000s nostalgia for people, my age, and it is completely without conflict.

“And I had a great time. And if you want to see Sophia Copola just doing, like not even fashion documentary, a fashion music video.”

But with, you know, because it's Mark Jacobs, she has some access. She has sit down interviews with him and they're slightly more revealing than, well, they're intimate. They're not particularly revealing. But that's okay. That's what Sophia wants to do. If you know the names Mark Jacobs and Sophia Copola, and that means anything to you, then you will enjoy this. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. You know, everyone, everyone looks great. Feel like it's only in like a few theaters around the country this weekend, right?

Yeah, I think it's a pretty small release, but then you can seek it out. And she really uses a music cue. That's my only note. From another very important Sophia Copola film. Perhaps intentional? I don't really think so. Honestly, I don't think that she forgot, but it's like, again, the music cue in question. I don't, I guess I don't want to split it. But it's at the very end. And it's supposed to end. You're just like, what this, I don't know if these emotions are speaking to each other.

Do you call her up?

“Yeah, that's why you're thinking Sophia.”

Okay, before we get to our last movie, I wanted to quickly give a shout out to a movie called Fantasy Life, which I quite enjoyed. Written and directed by Matthew Sheer, who you may recall as one of the annoying boyfriends in Mr. America, very no bomb back and Greta Gerwig coded actor.

He has enlisted an incredible collection of well-known older actors and actresses for this new film. He stars in the movie, opposite Amanda Pete.

It's about a paralegal who's been laid off and begins babysitting this trio of little girls in a near compartment. The couple that he's babysitting for, sort of man-eying for, is a kind of failed rock star who's gotten like a new shot at doing some touring and an aging actress who's having a little bit of a midlife crisis. Amanda Pete plays the actress. Alexander and Vola plays the agent. Stop rock star. You know that he's also been Calvin Klein. He's been Calvin Klein. He's been Calvin Klein. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. He had a great run.

Big fan of his as an actor. He's very, very good in this. I haven't seen low story yet. But also, Judd Hirsch, Bob Ballaband, Andrea Martin, Zasha Mammit, Jessica Harper, Holland Taylor. Great supporting cast. Most of those actors only get one or two scenes, but really great. And just very bomb back. Very Woody Allen, very like, shaggy, funny, self-deprecating, small movie with the queen Amanda Pete doing a very self-lasterating, introspective performance. This is like a small movie. I think Greenwich is putting it out, but in a slightly different universe, it's like an awards platform for Pete. I think it's a very underrated comic dream comic dramatic performer. Like is always a kind of stuck in the middle in terms of what she's best at, but I really like her. So I think people should check that out.

This film stars Vince Vaughn, James Marsen, I use against Alice, Keith David and Jimmy Tato. So about two best friends, quick draw, Mike and Nick working as enforcers for criminal gang, the plot kicks off on the night, Mike is supposed to die.

“However, a quote, future version of Nick travels back in time to stop this murder, joining forces with present day Mike and Nick's wife, Alice.”

Yeah, what do you see? Watch this. I did watch this. And I was very termed by it, even though I still don't think I could diagram it for you. And I think part of the effectiveness of this film is that it is time travel, John Wick with jokes, but that you don't.

It doesn't get bogged down by anything. It just keeps moving. And it coasts on Vince Vaughn as Vince Vaughn, and he's back. He has great chemistry with James Marsen. He's also very funny.

And you know, sometimes they're shooting things and sometimes they're doing like Abbott and Castello, and it's a very entertaining experience. And then they also eat to an eclectic movie. Like clearly, there's we're pulling from it, you know, I'm never as pop culture enthusiast. So just when you're like, okay, so I think I understand what's going on here. There is a full five minute discussion of Gilmore girls, and it's not a throw away joke. And I wanted to talk with you about this because I felt the intentionality of this scene, which is definitely supposed to get people like my attention and also to signal, hey, there is more here than just being really into action movies.

Yeah. Art, you know, our references are broad, but it just keeps going and going. And so I, you know, I kind of perked up at home and I was like, okay, they put something in for me. And then I've really extensive, thoughtful. And I ultimately think correct conversation about who is the best boyfriend in the Gilmore girls. James Marsen is right. Do you have you seen go bargals? Some, but not all of it. Okay. I haven't, I have not completed the film. I'm a fan, but I just have. So you don't know who the best boyfriend is. And you don't, you don't get any of the jokes about the Netflix stuff at the end, which I agree.

I do, and I did, and I'm aware of how they revived the show and brought it back. And I, I understood the gags. I mean, Ben David is going to be so happy to hear you talk about it because the one thing that he said when we finished talking was like, I feel like I didn't get to explain enough about why I did this, why this was important to me to stay in the movie.

It's a really, it's a really good conversation though about how you like get away with stuff when you're making a movie because this is full of just getting away with its stuff.

There's loads and loads of, as you said, the sort of omnivorous pop cultural references, lots of movie history is in this movie, lots of movie style that is kind of borrowed from lots of things, lots of music from our era, you know, prominent uses of oasis and Dave Matthews band and seal and chemical brothers and Andrew W. K. and needle drops galore, I did feel very safe and comfortable with Vince Vaughn doing Vince Vaughn. I do think it's very weird how we have kind of lost that unit of currency in movies where he just gets to be riffy, you know, and funny and that is something that was always very effective no matter what you think of him.

“I just, you know, I'm clearly as movie crazy as Ben David is, and so for me, like, a movie like this just activates my brain and gets me thinking about like, why did he pull this piece, why did he do this?”

Why is he using a step printing action sequence technique in this movie that otherwise just feels like a traditional Hollywood movie.

So there's lots to explore there and we did explore it in our conversation. It's really fun. It's really weird and I know why this is the case, but it's really weird. This is a streaming movie. Because it's just so clearly a comedy written to be seen with strangers and I can also see why this would be a marketing challenge for a movie studio to get people to come out to it because it's this amorphous blob like a big year of different stuff with like a bunch of stars who were not like the biggest movie stars of all time, so I get it more anymore right they're recognizable but not and they make sense in that streaming universe right we're Taylor Shardons like you like Sam Elliott just watch this show.

So I get what happened here, but still this would have worked really well as a movie theater movie and it says a little something that it's not loud.

“But even that if it's the movie theater version of it does the Gilmore girls riff get to keep going for I mean it is long. I don't know I think it does. I think it does. I think this is really fun. This is the one who blew right now.”

So people can watch it a set. Okay, quickly top five's. Yeah, so they're pretty similar. Are they? Okay. Do you want to you want to start? Sure. Well, no my number five is one that you don't have. It's in your honorable mentions.

Um, have we we haven't talked about Quentin Tarantino's feelings on the roof. I don't want to spoil it.

Um, you have shared a little bit with me. I don't know what's available for public consumption. It's probably not available yet. So I'll keep my mouth shut. Okay. That's just a tease. Great.

Let's just say we've been corresponding about the film rip.

“Um, okay. I like the rip. I think that's why I the rip is an honorable mention. Yeah. Five is probably tell Mary, which I really like. I'd like to see it again.”

Do you see next twice? I've seen a twice. I've seen a twice as well. I liked it a lot. Yeah. I think it is. I'm more obsessed with the craft of it than I am.

The story and emotional beats of it. The more I think about it. Because I feel like it my one little note about it is I wish it just like penetrated a little bit further into the island grace psychologically. Mm-hmm.

And sometimes the movie is kind of putting your it's hand up with a joke. The thing like you can't go too far. Right. I relate.

I know you know I know you know we're different in that we are different in that way.

Um, that's the only thing about it that I'm like, yeah. I can't turn myself over to it completely, but I really like it. I have a couple of edits, but my edit is essentially that at the end it allows itself to open up at like at least sentimentally to the to friendship and to finding love. And I'm like, no, no, no, you got to cut away before that.

I don't need any of this stuff. I know exactly what the last shot should be. We can just we can move on. Um, but you're very poisoned. Me, emotionally or yeah.

Yeah.

“But I also, you know, the pH test is gnarly.”

Uh, okay. Number four for you. Bone temple. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

On my list as well. Rock out. I want to see this again. I'm only seeing it once. It's on Netflix.

Oh, great. Okay. Maybe I'll watch this.

I don't if people haven't seen it.

I don't want to say too much more because some of it was the ray finds is in this movie. And I won't say anymore. But what he gets to do really like it. Isn't that your favorite performance of the year? Hmm.

Yeah. Maybe maybe more than, you know, what Gosling does is great. But it's kind of, it's tied up in Project Hill Mary. Yeah. Okay.

Um, my number four is mere warm number three. Which I just spoke about. So we can go to your number three. Yeah. My number three is your number one.

So we'll just, should we hold it? Yeah. We'll save it. And my number three is sent help. This is good.

This is my honorable mention for sure. Um, just the life of this movie was the success. Great to see racial academies back on top where she belongs. We're having a ripping season of survivor. I'm feeling very good.

Yeah. It's the 50th. 50th season. Okay. And so this movie was magnificently timed.

Yeah. You can only imagine it's going to go. There's an on BOD already. I think it just hit BOD. Um, it'd be able to hit 4k right around that finale time.

Oh, it's so exciting. Okay. So number two for me is the bone temple. Right. Number two for you.

It's Hail Mary. Hail Mary. So we will go to my number one in your number three. Which is Nirvana the band. The show the movie.

Right. Which is the hardest I've laughed in a movie theater this year. Me too. I think. Uh, just a magical movie that I've also seen twice now and have been very happy to do so.

Yeah. I mean, my number one is sort of the girl version of your number one. Which is the moment. Which is the Charlie Xiacs documentary. And you know, in the same way that you are just like full of love and wanting to connect with

people via a time travel. Um, mine is about how, uh, it's impossible to connect in that fame and life. Or a present best enjoyed with an April fritz. Um, I, you know, I, huge fan of Charlie Xiacs.

“And I think this is like a very knowing, funny movie where I do think that you have to not only know about,”

but actually be interested in the, both the work of Charlie Xiacs and the inner working is of fame and music documentaries. It's not for everyone thing, but I very much enjoyed it. And I laughed a lot too. Do you feel imprisoned by your own fame?

I don't, I don't, I don't. Do I feel imprisoned by, um, having to look at my face a lot? Yes, I do. So that's tough. And do I, do I feel imprisoned by every single zoom meeting that I have to be on forever and ever?

Like the zoom scene where they can't get anything working and will, where it's really funny. Do I feel that Alexander Skarsguard is both ruining my life and making it better at all times? Yes, I don't know him. Yeah, I, I mean, that would be fine if he would like to come out if I may. Anyway, I just, the, do I feel attitude with most, you know, health and wellness practitioners who don't think that my spirit is, uh, efficiently, um, you know,

we're adequately nonacidic to be treated.

Yeah, they're doing the pH just on you and what's going on with this gal.

“Yeah, that's where we have mixed as Kylie Jenner teaches us.”

And the next scene just keep going when they're sick of you. Just keep going. That is what we'll be doing here on the show forever more. Uh, well, that was a lot of movies. I hope you enjoyed that conversation that was extremely long, but good.

Uh, let's go now to my other conversation with Ben David Grabenski. Very happy to have Ben David Grabenski here. So you did it. You got a big major studio movie, congratulations. How are you feeling?

I'm feeling good. This is literally the end of the tour. I've been doing promotional stuff here in LA all week interviews, screenings and stuff. And this is my last thing.

I'm doing this. And I'm going to the airport. And I'm going to collapse. So it's like I definitely, you know, it's half marathon half like victory lap or whatever, you know,

at just in terms of, oh, it exists. It's coming out. And then I'm like, oh, wait, it's out.

“There's like a weird balance between all that.”

Then I'm excited to be here and talk about it. Yeah, I feel like I'm catching you in the last pure moment in a way.

This isn't your first film.

It's not the first big thing that you've done. But I know just knowing you a little bit and certainly knowing your work, that you're in insane movie head, that you, I would, it feels like we are in close cohort in terms of how much we love movies. Is that fair to say?

I mean, you know, I my office in New York, that I write in and do everything in is just all physical media. So it's like, and like those are the ones that are like, like whenever you guys like get into that, I watch it like the unboxing shit.

What you need to do with the movies. But it's like, it's, I don't know. It's like movies are my life. It's like the thing, only thing I care about. So it's like, that would be a problem if it also wasn't my job.

Luckily it is. Like if I was this obsessive and I couldn't rationalize it as like, part of the work, then maybe it would seem more insane. Let's go to the beginning before we get to the end. So I'm curious what the movie was that that let your torch,

that got you excited about the idea, not just the loving movies, but of trying to make movies. Do you remember what that is? You know, it's funny. The, I know the movie that rewired my brain in terms of tone

or what movies could do, which was Batman Returns. Because like, I'd seen Batman. Everyone my age was obsessed with it. Because it came out like when I was maybe like six or something. Yeah, we're about to change.

And it was sort of like the phenomenon for children. And you know, everyone's seen it to death.

You basically have the movie memorized even like the Diet Coke commercial.

And I remember seeing Batman Returns. And it's not that it was necessarily conscious of it, but realizing how different it was like this big swing. It was taking terms of humor and stuff. For some reason, just it really made me like aware of like what filmmaking is

or just like because it's like the contrast of the two. Like it's not like I was sitting there thinking about these things in the way I'm explaining it now. Like in hindsight, I think I get it. But that movie was just like a bomb that got dropped on me.

We're like, I was really, I was like kind of scared of it. And it was just so just felt more interesting. And then watching aliens in my grandma's basement, I was watching on cable by myself. I hadn't seen the first alien.

I did not know what I was getting into. And I vividly remember the, there's like a bit when they're in a room. And there's like a sensor and you like know the door is like 10 feet away or something. And then they realize the aliens are closer than the distance to the door. And that just, my brain was like everything got rewired.

Because I was just like, I was like a cartoon character. But it's not, they're up there. And it's like, and I just remember feeling like, oh, if I could ever do anything, one percent is good as that. Because I wanted to make movies since I was, you know,

before even middle school, at two point where I talked to some of a couple years ago, why not talk to him like 30 years. And they're like, oh, I'm not surprised.

You're always talking about how you were going to make movies.

And I was like, is that something I've like,

“retconned from my own life or is that a thing I used to say?”

And I guess I just did all the time. So you're from Nebraska. You grow up in Nebraska. I was born in Nebraska, but I moved to Arizona when I was really, really young. Okay.

So I lived in Arizona until I was 16. And then I moved to Iowa. And then moved to LA right after college. How does one who's from Nebraska, Arizona, Iowa, chart a path to making movies?

It's funny because I, all I ever want to do is be a director. And I had never thought about writing. And I just thought, I'm going to move to LA. And I'm going to make movies very naively.

And, you know, a lot, it's funny because like, when I was like in middle school or like early high school, like my film school was just like movie magazines, like starlogging all that stuff. But then my film school became DVDs.

Like, I don't think my life would be what it is. If there hadn't been that era when they spent so much money making special features and stuff.

“Or like, I remember it's like the commentary for Ronin.”

Like, I was obsessed with like the first two DVDs I got. Or like Ronin and next Friday. Which in a weird way, probably actually, now I'm saying that I allowed to realize like those two things are kind of combined or maybe my dumb sensibility.

That is in a lot of ways what this new movie is. But I remember like watching like a feature at about like storyboards on next Friday.

And then listening to audio commentary with Frank andheimer a million times.

And like, I just, you know, it just, I was obsessed with all this shit that I didn't have a plan. And then when I was in college, I stayed there one year over the summer. And I didn't realize no one was going to be there. Because it's like suddenly like everyone knew it was gone.

You'd go to the local bar and then there's like one guy there. And I had no idea it was me vacant. I'm like, what am I supposed to do with my time? And then I pirated a copy of final draft. I just, there was like some website where someone was like, hey, you can download final draft.

And I wrote a script. And then I, someone said they liked it. And I was immediately one of those idiots who's like, I guess I'm a writer. I just needed one person to say they thought it was good. So I just started writing.

And then I moved to LA. And then it got insulated by optioning a script that I wrote. And then I just started writing for a living. And then it beat just, it took over everything. And then I kind of got sidetracked from whatever my plan was to direct.

And then I made a short in 2010. And I wrote this action movie that I was trying to make from that. And I spent nine years trying to make it. And I couldn't get any one to make it because I'd a gigantic car chase in it. It was, it's a really insane.

But it's surprising, I guess if I didn't see my movie. Like an action comedy thing with vampires. Carrie Cune was attached to starring it. And there was like a huge extended like 20-page car chase in the middle. So I kept trying to get people to make it.

And there's no way to make it cheaply. So after like nine years of almost making that with the same producers. The movie I just made. I was like, what can I write that you can make for nothing or close to nothing. And I wrote happily.

And then yeah, your first feature.

“Can we go back to, then go back to whatever I'm rambling?”

No, no, the moment when you sold a screenplay that was optioned. How old were you? I was 22. Okay, so were you like, I'm in. This is going to be my career. And this is how I'll make money. And I'm set.

Well, it's funny because there's like the concept of an overnight success, which is, you know, your young people are like, oh my god, we're going to buy this thing. We're going to make this, your set. I sold a script.

And I was like, this is my life now. And they're like, we're going to make this in six months. I'm like, no one lies about these things. This is the truth. And then it didn't get made.

And I was like, okay, and I write my next one. And they're like, we're going to make this in six months. I'm like, okay, it's cool. It's fine. I had that set back at 22 where that didn't get made. And then that one didn't.

And it's like, okay. Well, you know, probably going to move you made it like 25. And then it just kept, you know, you're like Lucy with the, Charlie Brown with the football. And it took about almost a decade of that happening.

And maybe like, oh, this just might be my life. Is that I'm going to work in make a living consistently.

Maybe writing stuff that will never get made.

And then I'd have some things that are beyond for like years. Like for like really big directors and its studios and stuff where you do drafts and something for three years. And everyone's like, yeah, we're probably going to make this in this quarter. Or we're going to just this thing.

And, you know, like it doesn't times. And then I spent a month working doing some rewrites on this movie called Skip Trays for Rene Harland. And then they went off and made it. And almost everything I wrote got all my dialogue got rewritten.

And then I got credit on that. And I still don't know really what the rhyme or reason for it is like I spent all this time and all these things that we're going to quote and quote get made. And I just spent a month working on skip trace. And then it becomes like your first credit.

“And then it's also a movie that made like I think 14 billion”

dollars overseas and then seven thousand dollars in America. So you kind of, there is no. I gave up a long time ago on like having a plan for my career. Because you sort of just realize, okay, opportunities fall on your lap. Chase the ones you think you can do a good job on and then see what happens.

I wanted to make it and then it got made. So it's like I like when I did already afraid of the dark, it's just someone calling you.

“And because I'd written a draft of the movies saying, hey, do you have any idea for show?”

And I go, okay. And then people are talking to Brian about doing a Scott Pilgrim show. And then we had dinner and then I was talking about it. And he said, do you want to deal with me? And I'm like, okay, it's like these things just keep sort of like.

And then you just try to do great work hopefully.

And then this is the first thing where it's like, I'm going to get this movie made.

I'm going to do it and then it happened. Again, I don't know what there's like a lesson for many of that. I'm still very interested in the like, oh, four to 19 range. Like, pre are you free to the dark, pre Scott Pilgrim, pre happily. Because I know plenty of people who are screenwriters and aspiring directors.

“And I think at a certain point sometimes what happens is even when you're selling things.”

You start writing things to sell them and you give up hope on them ever being anything. And then so that your career becomes kind of working creatively into active anonymity. And like you broke the spell, right? Like you did it. You got films made, you got shows made, you're here.

But was there a part of you that was worried that you were like, I will just be pouring my heart and soul into ideas that will never be realized at any point.

You know, if I'm just going to be like really candid and honest instead of saying just sort of what's like an interesting answer. It's that I think something's like wrong with my brain where I don't know how to think that way. It's just like because this is the only thing I've ever wanted to do and it's like the thing I care about. It's just like I just keep doing it and kind of naively assume eventually it'll work out. If I didn't feel that way, I probably would have got discouraged or something.

Okay, but this also just a weird thing is say about the fact that like, you know, I was making a living and I, you know, it's the only job that I've had since I was like 23 or 24 or something. But it's just it's odd because when you grow up loving movies and like reading every interview, you get this idea in your head of like what a successful career is.

And you think it's oh, it's this thing and then you make your first movie and maybe the second one's not as good and then you do this.

And then you get into it and you're like, oh, those are kind of narratives people create and hindsight to kind of describe how their career went. And then you realize you're like, oh, this is just kind of chaos, you know, and you just. In hindsight, you can maybe come up with like a canned short answer of the arc of it.

“I think I might maybe things just more confusing. Do you, well, do you, did you ever feel like in that period of time?”

Like I missed the boat like the industry changed. It's not as easy to do the thing because one of the things that I really like about your movies is that you have a sensibility. Maybe not a style, but a sensibility that is very familiar to movies that we grew up on. And there's like a lot of McTiernan and Shane black and Tony Scott and you know, the like high level like artists and craftsmen with like a real sense of humor inside of these action movies. And that is like a little bit out of fashion or like comic book movies kind of sucked that up a little bit and kind of ruined it.

And I'm curious if you've just ever felt like I'm just a little at a time when you're trying to get those movies made. So I really like trying not to be like on trend, I guess that might be a way of putting it. Or it's like I try not to think at all about what people are doing right now in terms of filmmaking or like it's not like I'm watching an action movie that came out six months ago. And I'm like, oh, this is how we're shooting on now. That's what we got to do. To cling to the things that I'm passionate about and kind of hope that'll give it like a sense of specificity, you know, because I think that if I'm kind of trying to chase.

What other people are doing, then it's like I kind of don't have a north star like I don't really know which way is up it's like I have to just kind of stay in my lane of like to me what feels like just the most fun way to do the thing, you know, so it's like. The action in this is just all my favorite Hong Kong action filmmakers just kind of getting filtered through my, you know, weird personality, but it's. But I also just personally think stuff like that you can't improve on like I think if you sat down tomorrow and you watch like speed or hard boiled or any of those things you can't say.

Well, if only they had modern film techniques this would be more exciting. There's I don't think there's anything that we could do it's like okay, well, let's add a drone to the fight. All I was totally respect the craft of everyone who's like trying to push the envelope. But I just keep going back and being like, I don't know, it's like it's so made a movie today that felt exactly like me tearing in it would just blow the roof off of everything and it's like.

There is and this was something that people said about McTirton and Tony Scott and definitely John Wu too, you know, they were real artists who really seriously considered the structure and dynamic of what they were making you don't think about that when you see speed.

When you're 10 years old in a movie theater and you're like, holy fucking shit, this is blowing my mind.

But if you do go back and it sounds like you did really go back and kind of like deconstruct and try to understand how they did what they did and then try to rebuild from there while retaining your own self, which some filmmakers doing some don't. But it's interesting that like they did that about Pasalini right McTirton and famously like a real it really intro into the European outdoors and you're doing it with them and like do you have a consciousness of being part of that that step ladder of creativity.

“You know, I mean, this is the best way I can really explain my process is that the day before I left for when I pegged to make the movie.”

I introduced the screening of last section here at Vidiots and then I brought my DP Larry Fong and we sat in the back row.

And I was asking him some questions about how he used lenses on that movie and then we went to Pandivision and found lenses that McTirton used for those movies and then that's what I used on my movie. So that level of specific insanity where it's like I'm not sitting on set saying what would McTirton and do but I did figure out what his lenses were. It's like I am for me it's just like I make movies because I really love movies and I like that the sum total of my influences are so kind of disparate that it kind of becomes a new thing.

You know because I try because it's like if I'm making something that is, you know, my favorite Hong Kong action movies and this thing and this thing and this thing and this thing and I find kind of this package that I can filter all that into that is kind of coherent.

“Then it feels like fresh I think that because like when people read this this script sometimes they'd say oh it's like back to the future meets good fellas and I'm like that's a cool thing to say.”

But I think it's a little bit more like sexy beast and I think it's a little bit more like this thing and then you start to realize it's like okay because if I say it's this meets this I have to say 400 movies you know because it's like it's to me it's a body action comedy. It is a time travel movie where everyone's kind of lovable idiot and there's no one to talk about science and it's a one night gone wrong movie so which is one of my favorite types of movies where it's like the movies just one night.

They have to be you hope that they're going to live until sunrise and they'll figure out their shit so that's like. To me the simple way of describing it but then when other people start talking about it I just have to because it'd be funny like I'd be in meetings and someone be like yeah it's just going to be like the next back to the future I'm like no that's a perfect movie and it's also a different movie and it's like but then I'm like whatever it doesn't matter how. People describe it can you tell me a little bit about that process of going into rooms and trying to sell your movie to people you know the funniest thing about this movie is.

I didn't have to sell it and that's never happened to me before I had a very very fortunate situation which is that I was really busy making Scott Pilgrim.

And my producer Andrew Lizarre who had been attached to the other movie almost made forever and has been like for some reason. He took the script to 20th and shared it with some people he knew there and then they seemed to really like it and they were all talking about it I don't know any this is happening and I'm making Scott Pilgrim. I'm literally making the voice record stage and then he calls me and he's like hey so. They're really excited about this movie can you come and talk to him on Monday was just like what and I was like okay sure whatever this seems a little too good to be true.

And then I went in and met with like Steve Asbel and Sarah Shuppard and Richard Milton and I just talked and they asked me questions and I you know it was like talking at tonally the comps and the kind of actors I was thinking about and all these things and then at the end of the meeting they're just like okay and then they like made a deal and then we started working from there and everything else ever.

“You sort of have to go in and do the razzle dazzle and like you know really like confidently pitch the thing and this was a situation more where I think they just wanted to make sure that.”

And I had a vision in my head. I had a concept of how I was in a direct action. I think it was just sort of they wanted to see if I was in a sane thing that made them worried about it. I guess like maybe didn't. And then it just you know then it went from there it's funny to because like.

And I had him and I was like okay and then at the end of the meeting they're like but you have to get rid of the Gilmore girls scene and I was like what? They're like yeah it's just not going to work at people haven't seen the show. I'm like I kind of respectfully disagree with that. I'm totally going to be the one that's like the number literally in our document to discuss your movie. I mean as like we have to talk about the Gilmore girl scene. Well we will but I'm saying that I I'm out of major studio and they didn't want to round off any of the edges of it and I and I was so ready to have someone be like yeah we like it but we don't like this part and then it didn't happen and then when I made the movie I thought.

Okay, they're going to see it and they're going to be like but you can't open with like this musical sequence and and then they didn't and it was like two things are true.

It's unbelievably difficult to make the movie but I also had a lot of support creatively so it's like it was very very difficult technically and all these things but at the same time I talked to the studio and it'd be like so what do you think of the daily so like the great I was like okay well I'm just to keep working on my headaches over you're trying to figure the stuff out. So you're seeing why does I've been trying to make you know a big action movie for ever and then the first one I get to make is also very idiosyncratic and they were very supportive and that feels like a big contradiction but I shouldn't really overthink it because I get it.

It's definitely something happening from at least from my perspective at 20th where they're like we're just new line in the 90s and we just are finding. Interesting strong voices and sometimes we plug them into our franchises and sometimes we do originals and you're going to get predator badlands and send help and you're going to get all these movies that feel like movies that we really liked when we were younger and most of the time they're working and that's like a.

“I think that I've been begging for for like 10 years on this show and it's very exciting to watch so it's even more fascinating that they didn't fuck with what you wanted to do.”

I mean Steve is a real worm Steve Asbel I joked about this in my intro the other night of the premiere.

But like if the head of your studio really likes psycho too you could have a dialogue you know because I would. You know if someone really doesn't love movies it's it can be a little tough for me to kind of. Explain where I'm coming from or kind of because my passion comes from that so it's like if.

It's really helpful that you know I can also say something that might sound insane where you're like saying I want the action if you like this and you're mentioning a movie that is zero humor.

But he has enough of like film knowledge and love that he can tell what I'm saying is aesthetically I'm looking for this but also I'm trying to do this thing. And I've had some experiences with some people when you say something they get so binary like I once pitched on a movie. And and I can't name what it is but it was like a tent pole and I was pitching to a studio head and I said I pitched a joke and he stopped me and he goes this isn't a comedy and I said well.

“I think I kind of want this to feel like the star trick from 2009 in terms of energy where that's like a big role in the adventure but it's also a comedy music but that's a sci-fi this isn't a sci-fi I was like well.”

You know like when I'm talking about like intention or what I want to do it's not like one to one in a literal way so if you can't kind of like yeah I that's where I can get screwed in terms of like communicating with someone because they'll just be like wait what they just get fixated on like the other thing right it's tone versus content and yeah people can't see the middle. But Steve is like just a guy who seems to really love all kinds of movies and Sarah Shepherd and my exec on it was just really really helpful and.

I think she just always always like kind of excited that she's making the original action movie because it's it feels like most people do want to be doing that it's just some it can really get hard to push that. up a hill or whatever yeah I think I was expecting a totally different story from you about the long journey to get this made for that exact reason well I think.

“But you have to consider it in context of everything else which is I think that even though I hadn't gotten a movie like this made.”

Kind of a vague idea of people like well maybe he could do it or like people are like you know I do kind of like a stop there's sort of this accumulation of. Having a decent reputation or feeling somewhat competent so it's like I and I've known Steve for a long time we haven't worked together and it's just one of those things where it's like just the right time right thing where they understood the material and saw the potential of it.

He's like a contagious sort of passion.

“So it's sort of like I had a hype man that I didn't know is hyping it up and I was over here in a corner with Brian just working really hard in the Scott Pilgrim show not even thinking about what I was going to do next.”

And then I was just very fortunate that when that got done it's like I just shifted into the long headache of how do I make a movie of two Vince Vaughn's kind of stuff I wanted to ask about Vince.

It's nice to see him in this register it's been a little while since he's been specifically in this register.

It's also very funny that this is coming on the heels of sinners where there's all this kind of fascination and adulation for what Michael B. Jordan is doing and the filmmaking technique of coogler with the twins and you're operating in a somewhat similar well my storyboard artist did sinners. And he also like theory wrote and stuff he's that's growing guy and while he was doing my stuff he's like oh yeah I just finished sinners and I was like how is that going he's like oh it's funny and he was talking I was like oh wait there's two Michael B. Jordan's in that and I'm like you know like a month away from shooting I was just like oh man.

This is different obviously somehow there's like fucking movies of two denieros and all these guys and I'm just like I didn't know I wasn't I didn't know that was going to be a zeitgeist thing and also you don't benefit from anything they learn because we're all siloed off

“And we're all on our own little like horrible adventure figuring out how the fuck to do that technically you can't call coogler and be like hey man just explain it to me how does this work.”

I met him after the creed premiere and it was one of the coolest things is ever happened like one the creed premiere were like I remember being there and realizing what that thing was and it was one of those exhilarating nights of my life and afterwards I met him and he was like the nicest.

Most humble person and I watched someone say to me he's like oh you know Christopher Nolan's here and he looked like the most excited person who ever lived and I was like.

I'm like the fact that he just he seemed like so happy that director he respected and watched the movie and I was like how can you be that talented and have that kind of you know he's definitely still a humble but he's also just such a movie nerd and that's why I think everybody kind of is so drawn to him in that way but anyway I mean I'm I was just a little curious to hear you talk about the idea of. Shooting the the double stuff and how how challenging that must be I mean the thing about it is like okay doing action is very difficult but in a great way.

Shooting one guy as two people sucks so much shit you know it's like because you want it to feel effortless and you don't want someone to watch and think oh that was difficult. And I'm also working with an actor who can kind of be a little bit loose and it's not like he's going to get every do every syllable exactly the same way was written and you want to encourage him to kind of you know.

“Don't feel like you have to be so rigid and locked in but then that process is that because you know you'll spend six hours shooting one side of the scene with him.”

And then he has to come back and act against himself and then you you are like totally locked into gigantic fucking computer control camera that does the move and has to match the thing and figuring out how to do that. And within a schedule is just you know it requires so much prep. And then you have to pivot sometimes based on like how a scene is going and realizing you have to change your methodology based on performance and because you don't want to like I never wanted to feel like. That was put in a box because of it and I don't think it feels that way but that requires a lot of work it's one of those things where it's like I was like doing two movies at once I was doing a movie that was so easy and fun which is all the stuff with the gangsters so I like I'd have a day that's just with Jimmy Tatro and Lewis and Arturo and Keith David and it's just like you're like the movies this is the best and we're just working together and trying to make the scenes is cool and interesting it's funny is possible and you go home at night.

Well all that was like 42 nights in a row and I'm like this is the best job ever and then next day it's like okay so we have to have a crane that fits within the soundstage to. That goes overhead so he can do a walk and talk but if we back up this way like we won't be able to do this thing but then I have to go back and have. Then gets an earwag and do this thing and sort of like it was like two jobs at once it was like a job that was like. Logistics and you're trying to be creative and make sure that you're still doing what you want to do and then one that was just like.

It's just like how do you make this scene work and so no time travel doubling in the next film.

Well I will say this when I wrote this script I turned off the part of my brain that thought about how difficult it would be to execute anything because I just was trying to follow my creative instincts.

“And that's just what I'm always going to do it's like because if you you have to somehow separate those things because if you're thinking about that too much it's going to kind of.”

It's going to keep the stuff from being as good as it can be because like if you're just if I'm writing a scene and I'm like oh that's going to be hard to do.

It'll like just get in your way so it's like I trying to avoid that so basically on my next movie I'll probably come back and be like.

I don't know why I shot on a water tank the whole time. But it's like but you know it's just I had a really great idea of evolving water yeah a movie starring a kid a dog and it takes place on water yeah I do it yeah now I'm just going to it it's going to come back and I'm just going to be doing like that just staring off in the distance and I was like I love the movie and I'm proud of it man air bud water polo movie. I want to if you want to talk about the needle drops. I feel very seen by the needle drops in the movie and that's all I can ask for just like just an emotional like thunder bolt I think with some of the choices even if they're not even songs that I love.

They are referential in a way that I found satisfying and you were talking about that earlier can you had how do you make those decisions how do you are you writing songs into the script and then getting your heart broken when you can't get them. I wrote all the songs in the script and then I ended up using about 60% of them and I got to that I had to clear way early because they're kind of performed in the movie so I can't like shoot that and then be like oh hey can I get the song because then it's as a golden I don't have a scene.

“Which is kind of a spoiler and I'd rather not talk about I think it's worth mentioning is I do have an oasis song and I got it before they decided they were going to have reunion I think that if I had gotten it later.”

I never would have gotten it and I wouldn't have made the movie without that song.

Yeah my number one karaoke song really yeah yeah that's a good one yeah I personally like it obviously I also wouldn't like love the movie but you know it's the the music is all kind of part of the same thing which is I want to make stuff that feels really really really specific and my specific I mean. Just what feels right to me and I think that if I'm really following my gut on that stuff about what feels right in the moment totally or energy wise or pacing wise then I think it'll lead to a movie that doesn't feel generic you know.

I probably I'm not having myself on the back because some of my think this is really stupid but I do think I'm probably the only person who would have put a day math you saw in a strip club and. Just you know it I don't know it seemed it made me laugh really hard so it's like I'm I'll remember I did a friends and family screening really early in New York before I like turned in my first cut to the studio because I just wanted to show it to some people and just make sure nothing was confusing them and just sort of like get some feedback to be like hey does this thing track for you and just ask some simple questions but the main value of it.

Was that when that song came on everybody laughed and I was like okay. Okay well at least I at least I know that someone will be as amused by that as I was and then.

“I think one of the only notes that I got from a really really high up Disney person was just make sure he keeps that song in the strip club.”

It does I mean it works it doesn't place it'll work if it works for you it works if it doesn't work for you I don't know to say I there was a I saw really funny thing that someone posted where they're like look I want to love a movie with that many go more girl references but I can't support a movie when they played Dave Matthew song and I'm like that's valid it's that's I'm not going to argue with that take but yeah it's just all the stuff. What happens is you know you picked 29 songs and then you have the worst time of your life trying to get all of them and the amount of phone calls that I had and I then I brought in the super the music supervisor used on happily and her job really is she's like a missile aim at a problem where she's like right I'm going to make some calls and then you know 12 hours later she's a good case where I talked to this guy at the label and I talked to this person but we're trying to show a clip to this guy in the band.

And she's just you know she's really tenacious and like that was one where I'm like if Dave Matthew's watch this and said he doesn't approve it I'm in trouble and I don't know who wants to improve it but somebody. I guess he says no a lot to movies in fact I have a director friend who was at the premiere and he's like how do you get that song he wouldn't let me use.

I don't think that this is a huge leap to think that he must have thought it was funny, but I also don't ever want to know because I don't want to get disappointed at find out he's like oh what's that I didn't see that. Well there's the only story about him in that respect I've heard is credit girl with writing him the letter to use crash in Ladybird and that she wrote a very long an emotional letter to him about how important his music was and this puts it in a different context than why it's used in that film but there's something actually nice about imagining Dave Matthews getting both versions.

I got to tell you the opposite of that story, which is what happens when you write that letter and you're not Greta Gerwig is on my first movie you might be surprised to learn that it took like 11 months made to clear all the songs and it was like a real difficult thing is there was no money but there was a song that I had a hospital by modern lovers and I had to write a letter to the band and it was in the cut and it was in the sequence and it just worked perfectly and like I wrote him a letter and I kept waiting and waiting and waiting to tear back from him.

“I'm having a brain for it and then I just ended up having radio silence and I had to mix the movie 48 hours later and I didn't have a song there and I like freaked out and like I don't know what to do.”

And I like watched the scene and I called my music supervisor and I was like the only other song that would ever work is like people ain't no good by Nick Cave and she's like well like I know their manager or some shit and she's like hold on and she calls me an hour later and she's like I can get that and I was like I freaked out. I was like doing a victory lap. I was like oh my god this is like a scene out of a movie I got this amazing song and I've never seen it a movie before I locked the cut I mix it. I show the movie to someone and the first thing they say is I like that you use the shred to song.

And I was like the what I didn't seem struck to they're like it was really funny that you decided to use the shred to song I'm like what's what shred to song and I hadn't Google this song and see if he was in another movie and there was like the first three people who watched the movie mentioned that they love that I use the shred to song I'm like I didn't know it was a shred to song you ruined my victory lap. So now anytime I watch my home movie on my head is the shred to scene. So if he had read that letter and said yes I'd have hospital my movie but instead I'm now forever haunted by the fact that I accidentally put a shred to song.

“You have to take that as a W based on the fact that people enjoyed that that reference.”

Yeah, I'm just not part of the I missed the shred generation I only ended up seeing those movies like after I made that because I'm going let me go see what these shred things are.

When our former producer left the show we did it like a tribute episode to him and what he wanted to do and he's better than us it was was talk about track because it's just it's just an inch behind us so you're you're forgiven. At that time there's a thing people don't understand culturally is that in like 2001 to three or whatever it was not cool to see animated movies if you were an adult and then it shifted. Like you go see like the Incredibles and all this stuff and by then it's like it's like this memory whole thing where I remember people being like oh those are like cartoons and then everyone forgot that adults didn't go see those things so it like shred came out at that last gas but people feeling like.

“I was like 18 and 20 I'm not going to go see it quite soon yeah and then so yeah I missed shruck but I didn't even ask you why should I worry but I don't almost don't want to ruin that.”

That's another but speaking of animated movies and music and the way in which they infiltrate our minds in an early age I will say about that opening.

It it you could easily read the script and not know that was what the opening of the movie was because it was just I wrote one paragraph and I mentioned that he's going around the lab and singing along with the thing. And then I had like this huge elaborate kind of thing that was super boarded and planned out spent a whole night shooting it and then I know that there was meetings where people are like hey we have like 40 hours of daily's have been short singing a song does anyone can what scene is this.

But I can't believe I got that and I'm still kind of waiting for someone to call me and say hey we just realized you put that song in the movie and I'm like yeah okay but I also just think this is if only for people have already seen it or a second viewing thing I think the lyrics of what he's singing considering how that scene ends is kind of an added joke for me.

But yeah let's quickly talk about the step printing shots.

So you talked about colliding influences right and I say one thing go about those yes. Yeah sure he did a podcast Vince Vaughn thing and there's a point where he is trying to talk about the step printing but doesn't know what it is and.

And like it and he's like describing step printing and I'm just like this is really charming explain it and explain why you wanted it to be in your movie well. So there's some been some really nice things that people said about the movie where they said like someone said it feels like a long car why made like a 90s body action movie and look. I love long car why when I was in London. I saw chunking express the prince Charles theater I think it's a masterpiece but I have to be honest about me influences is I've been obsessed with step printing since I saw this movie called Warriors of Virtue because Ronnie you did the bride with white hair which I saw after which is a.

“Perfect movie I remember sitting in a theater watching Warriors of Virtue and being like what the fuck is happening where he was doing the step printing thing which is.”

Perhaps a step printing is some people watch it think it's in something slow motion but it's also just because I can't begrudge someone not for not having a vocabulary for what it is because it is.

The weird thing is that you basically there's 24 frames in a second and so when you're shooting it's like there's successive frames you know 24 in a row.

But when you're doing step printing it's like you repeat a frame for three times like as I was doing it with eight frames within a second so it would be like a frame will be three seconds long and three seconds long I mean three frames long so you're basically getting these bits of motion where it's kind of becomes. See, I'm even explaining it poorly, but basically it creates this kind of surreal feeling for motion where everything is happening and normal time, but you're skipping frames so it creates this sort of weird.

I'm looking at my whole book motion a little bit and it's just one of those things where it's like I just it just felt like a thing to do and it also just felt like you know. Why not try it or in such a homogenized time of content consumption that when something like this pops out. I'm not used to it we don't understand it if you like what the fuck and I'm so I'm surprised that nobody was like take this out. Well, there was discussions about it and there was more in an earlier cut I would I being perfectly honest I'm saying that the movie is like the exact movie I wanted to make.

Hopefully I had pushed that a little bit further in a way that I understand that people maybe wanted a little bit more restraint with it. To not think about I try not to have that fear of well this might not be forever one because I think with movies like this right now it becomes so like what we have to grab them and they have to know the plot at the two minute 30 second mark and we have to make sure we don't make any choices that might alienate a couple people. And I just have to follow my gut and my gut was I just thought it was aesthetically interesting and I thought it was additive and it made it just to me it just felt right instinctually and you just sort of keep chasing things that feel correct to you.

And then hope some other people respond to or at least respond to the swing of it you know makes total sense a couple more for you before we go. You see a lot of movies I follow you on letter box. Yeah, I do watch I watch a little bit too many I would actually I came home and would watch and move I did 42 nights in a row and then I was it was October in the second half of the shoot. And I was I would watch a movie so I'd watch all the Friday the 13 movies in a row because it was that and I would throw on something was like 90 minutes long and I would watch a movie then go to bed, which is.

“Probably stupid, but I don't make movies, but that's what I do every night.”

Oh, that's no big deal. But you watch movies. That's crazy. I've listened to this and I never picked up right now and now you think about this. The gardening show.

How you feel about the state of moving going? How you feel about your film being a movie that's going streaming even though you've been able to show it in movie theaters like how how do you feel the whole the whole kitten Kootle well look. There's two things that I really love. I love movie theaters and I love physical media and I'm sitting here talking about a movie that's coming out and streaming and. The reality of it, but you can put that in a box and you can say, okay, yes, obviously I prefer to see this movie in 40 X. Yes, I didn't make this movie for audiences. But I also got to make a movie that is a big action comedy where no considerations were ever made for any that bullshit.

“No one ever came like I think the first big laugh is like 13 minutes into the movie. No one was ever like, oh, well, you know someone's going to turn it off if they don't know this by this point.”

There was never ever a discussion about anything except how to make the best version of this movie.

I just tried to make the movie that I wanted to make and a movie that felt right and correct to me and you know we can get into the state of the business and I think movie theaters the best thing in the world and I think there's nothing better than seeing a movie with a crowd and this is a really good crowd movie. But I also have to put all my energy into the work and it's like you know in sodaberg quit he quit because he said in like making movies anymore. And then he realized that he's like, no, I like movies just the business is like stressing me out and that's I spent a long time like talking about the state of the business.

And you know we have some mutual friends who like like you know Griffin I was sitting like talk with shit for fucking hours about it, but I realize that if I just try as much as possible put my brain into making movie and proud of and try not to get in my head about any of those things then that was just it because it's like a big movie studio. Let me make a big action movie that's a very long scene with people discussing Gilmore girls. So that's the win you know, even though.

“Is a very good crowd movie and I think it really plays on the big screen.”

So both the things are true and the thing that is the most important thing is that I was supported creatively, but it'd be I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish it didn't wish I could have everyone could see it in 40 X you know. So I can't really do 40 X anymore. My back is too bad honestly. I'm just I wish I was built different, but I'm not. I just saw all three Lord of the Rings extended editions in 40 X. So I did like four hours in the theater.

I was so real. I respect it as part of the reason I ended moving to New York is what the first night I was there.

But Griffin, I saw red one in 40 X and I walked down like that was really fun the experience of that was really yeah. And it became the thing where we had like a 40 X group chat and then we picked the one movie movie that seemed right to do it. Sometimes it's really great and sometimes it's like what are we doing here guys. Before I ask you what's the last great thing you've seen I do have a keep David story for me. I really feel like your movie gets keep David in a way that I appreciate it. Well, let me tell you as a guy who has a they live nice to just drafted in a draft.

The thing about casting this movie is sometimes because like you're making a studio movie and what happens is you come to a table the list of actors you want. And then they come to a table with a list of actors that if you cast we will green light it. And then the joy is when there's overlap you know and with that one there was a moment when someone said,

“I think it was one at the studio they're like, well, Keith Davis available. What you being willing to cast him and I was like, hold on hold on.”

Wait, you guys are saying like I could I could try I could get Keith David for this.

And I was like the second I knew that that was like an approved actor for it. I'm like, let's fucking go.

And I was like doing the Chris Farley show with him the whole time like in between takes like I pull a chair up next time. Like, all right, so is it true that the the the the rumor that you had a fight scene in roadhouse that cut out and he's like, well, and then you would tell me a story. And you know, there's a line in the movie when he says Michael be street pizza by morning and I put that in there because he's talking about gargoyles and he's like, you know what the best thing was about gargoyles he's like, I like when someone called someone street pizza.

And I was like, and I just was like, okay, interesting and then I was like, by the way, I rewrote this scene and he looks at it and he goes, he's like, you added street pizza to my line. And I was like, yeah, and he was like, so happy to keep when he wasn't shooting would call me and ask how it was going. I said, hey, I just miss you guys was going on with the shoe. And he's the only guy in the show in the movie who'd seen Gilmore girls from beginning to end multiple times and he has a cat who has daughters would call his son like, oh yeah, your sons over there.

So he's a cat guy loves Gilmore girls and he's key. So he was just as accidental perfect storm of perfect and you know the thing about it that I love is I needed someone who could be imposing and someone who could be funny and those are kind of contradictory things.

“And he has a lot of presence as a bad guy and I think he's just really funny. I remember like Jimmy Teatro like on the end of the first day working with him. He's like, so he's like a comedy actor, right?”

And I was like, actually, you know, yes, I mean, you get to like talk and stuff like it's like, yeah, the first time people let me be funny was men at work and it's like, all right, Keith David.

We talked about men at work. That was like, and then you just talked about making men at work. Yeah, the the biggest reason that you should try to be a successful director or filmmaker as you can get away with that kind of shit. If I was just to do it on the street and you walk up to Keith David, like, hey, can I talk about roadhouse? We'll get the fuck away from you. But it's like, hello, sir, starring in my movie. Can I ask you questions about shooting roadhouse?

And to be also he and Jimmy are so funny together. I, this is the level of response. Well, I am, I cut that stuff down even though it's my favorite shit in the world because it's just pacing matters.

And I could have been really indulgent and kept every frame everything those guys did because I love every fucking frame of it. There's so much funny stuff with them that I couldn't justify keeping in because you can only stay away from kind of the main plots.

“So long, but I also could just watch a whole movie. Those two guys being those two guys. So that becomes the real thing where it's like, I can't actually be indulgent.”

Like there's the stuff anything in the movie that is sort of quote unquote indulgent is also functional. That would, I can't justify having like six straight minutes of those guys just being father and son even if it just you play it for people and they, they would get bigger laughs and anything. But you also like we got to get back to the stuff. You gave us enough. Yeah. Okay. Ben David, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they have seen as I mentioned you consume a lot of movies.

I'd forgotten about this because I haven't had much sleep and I've been doing so much press this week and then. My assistant is also a producer on the movie, Mal texts me and she goes, so what's your, what are you going to say at the end about your favorite thing? I was like, oh fuck. And then I immediately for some reason I thought I've been it feels also connected to the movie is I watched week is pain again. Have you seen my half. So when I was on my way to South by I put it on my iPad and explain what it is.

I believe his pain is this documentary about the making of the John Wick series, which I have like a lot of strong feelings about those movies and I could talk about them for like 10 hours.

I was at Fantastic Fest at that first screening when like people realize, oh, this is a thing wherever one laughed when he said, oh, when I went to Paris.

I guess this is a good way to explain my insanity. I went to Paris for the first time and what I did was I went to all the shooting locations from John Wick for because. And so it's like, oh, this really shot, I'm only I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's like that this is the church from the thing. And I'm just really, really fascinated by those movies.

“I think for is truly a masterpiece just all caps masterpiece and I even remember when I heard what the running time was I'm like, oh, they're they're finally going to fuck this up. This is just there's no way they can justify being that long.”

And then I remember walking out of the theater. I'm like, that was exactly length that should be if anyone complains about the length. I'm going to get a big argument with you.

But anyway, the dock covers all of it. And it is so candid in a way that I don't understand how it exists. It is so interesting. And it's really it I just I'm just I think it's so cool that they're honest about, you know, conflicts and all these. And it was yeah, how much they fucked up and and it and I just but I find it very inspiring like and I was like watching it before I went to South by is kind of this trick you do you like one case of screen doesn't go as well. I wanted to or if case I got caught up on this I kind of do things to remind myself.

You know, like what I care about. So I'm like, I'm going to rewatch week is pain and I was like sitting on a plane watching and I was like, these movies are so cool.

“So cool seeing how they shot him. Oh my god, a bunch of my stunt guys are in these shots and it just like it was very like is like very centering for me. But I think that if you like action filmmaking at all or like those movies.”

I think it's really interesting and I think it's a rare kind of candid look at kind of what you know you all the hard work and interpersonal conflict all these things that happen when you're making shit like this, you know. It's a great answer. It's a really great documentary. Ben David. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for being here. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't this was the interview I cared the most about if anyone else who interviewed me hears this I'm sorry. But I I was so excited about this and this felt like the perfect way to end my promotional tour then go to the airport.

Yeah. Thanks for having me. Congratulations. Thanks to Ben David Gabinski. Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Thanks Luke's cabin offer production support. We'll be back on Friday to break down the drama and the other drama the super Mario Galaxy movie the alphanio mega of April with the movies we'll see then. But what I wanted to do is not to be a part of the studio. The masterwriter has left her on the internet. She's so funny.

You're a hero now, right? But you don't believe it.

That's not true. It's just a challenge.

“Do you just do it with this story? And if you then know it, you'll be able to do it.”

That's right. Save. This story. I'm going to say it. Now it's time to start.