The Top 10 Movie Plot Twists and ‘The Drama.’ Plus: ‘The Super Mario Galaxy Movie’ Certainly Exists.

- I'm Sean Phenasy. - I'm a man, David. - And this is the big picture at Conversation Show about drama, mind games, Mario and Yahoo! On today's show we will dive into two new releases

that could not be farther apart in terms of target audience craft and cultural appeal.

The first movie I'm talking about

is Christopher Borgley's new Doomcom, The Drama, which stars in Daya and Robert Pattinson has engaged a couple whose relationship takes a twist in the lead up to their wedding. The second movie is the Super Mario Galaxy movie,

which is the sequel to 2023 smash hit Super Mario, Brothers movie, one of these movies is for kids. One of them is for arrested development millennials, one hinges on a twist. The other is without a brain.

We're also gonna talk about our favorite movie plot twist ever, which is related to one of these two movies. I won't say which, but first we have some movie news to get into right after this. - Simon asked you about the story,

are you talking about this swivel flashback

“in some ways, and then you're hoping that it's steamed?”

- Oh, no, garney. Like this story is so my safe space. - Mm, do you think that's all right? - Yeah, exactly. Like this story is so deep story app

that I just understood.

The Garland Studio, Job, or Unzug.

(speaking in foreign language) - Stoy on LED. - Safe. - Medviso Stoyer. - I'm back from spring break.

- Welcome. - Thanks. - There's some news. - Yeah. - There's gonna be a weapons prequel.

- Yeah, how long onto the news were you? - Wow, on spring break. - Not at all, really, not at all. - To movie news? - I don't know.

- I mean, I was closely tracking the price of gas in this country, which seems to be a serious issue. - Yeah, you're just logging on to that? - Well, I don't, I drive an EV. So I don't really follow that, so.

- Oh, right. - Okay. - You know how welcome.

- It seems to be a real issue.

- Yeah, the coastal leads with the EVs. Yeah, it's a nightmare. - EVs are spread across this fine country. And frankly, they're going to spread even more on based on what's happening here in America.

Okay, no, weapons. There's gonna be a prequel Gladys,

“which I think we understood was gonna happen”

after the breakout success of that movie. It's gonna be written by Zach Kreger, who of course wrote and direct the original and Zach Shields, I say Gladys, you say what? - Is Amy Madigan involved?

- I, or is it like a younger Gladys? - Maybe I'm like a book and did way, right? - Okay. - We see her at the beginning of the movie to situate the audience, and then we see her at the end

getting her flesh torn off of her body. - Okay. - But then in the middle, it is who Phoebe Dyndever is said in the 1940s. - I believe in Zach Kreger and his imagination

and his relationship to the character Gladys and showing messed up funny things on screen. I'm very pro. Phoebe Dyvener or Dyvener in the 1940s. It doesn't on its face jump out to me

as like the most exciting. - What if it goes back to the Salemess chusels and the witch trials and Gladys is actually hundreds of years old. - Okay.

- That could be an option. - It could. - And then we could. - I mean anything could happen. - Ms. Andree, in misogyny across centuries

of American existence. What would you be saying about that? - So it's starting in the Salem witch trials and then we're jumping through various-- - Yes, she's lived her Christy.

- Yeah. - The same with the sort of Gladion Payler Dracula lived for centuries. - But so, how does Gladys age? Is a question I would post to you in that context?

“- Well, how did she not age is really the question?”

- Right, but she is aged in weapons. She is older. I mean, and if she is sprung to life like that, then why can't Amy Madagin be at the Salem witch trials? And then, or are you having a young Gladys

within ages progressively but more slowly over time? - I think Gladys is in a race against aging. - Okay, so there she does it well. I don't care, but some of us do. And I think that she what her character is doing

is that as each day goes by, she's trying to fight back the dawn. You know, she's trying to get a little bit of youth injected back into her system. - Right.

- There is a kind of like ultimate clone that is... - Okay. - A raw, like, that is unstoppable. Like, she will eventually become a hundred years old, but she can revert back to a younger form

the more souls that she is in her experience. - The more young souls, so she's got to find various groups of children in peril. - Yes. - Over the time.

- So I guess Salem, which trials is available, but you can really... - The Crusades? - I was gonna say the plague. - The plague, sure, that's a good idea.

- Let's see what else, I mean, bad things have happened to children and adults throughout history and all forms. - We're on the brink of Easter. And, you know, Christ's risen. Maybe she was there with Punch's pilot.

unrelated to the films?

- She would've just said she brought it.

- I can't believe you've been asked if you could. - Easter? - Yeah, I'm out, I'm like, I just, you know, everyone's real excited. And I will come to the Easter Egg hunt or whatever, but I guess it was just that Easter wasn't really big

and my childhood. - I don't really know what you're saying. - I just like, I'm in the practice of Christianity. - Well, I don't really practice Christianity and I don't super believe in any organized religions.

But, so that doesn't matter to me, but then the whole fanfare around Easter, you know, we've tried to Christmas-sized it. Everybody's like, here's a peep, here's an egg hunt, here's like some, you know, bunnies, here's like lots,

I don't really, I don't think we've done a good job I'm out. I just am not into Easter, no thanks. - Thanks for letting me know. Other things that are happening in the news, Cliff Booth, not coming out this summer,

the adventures of Cliff Booth, the forthcoming feature from David Fincher and Quinter and Tino, looking at a fall release, maybe theorized that the theatrical release, if you just put a number on, how many movie theaters

“will the adventures of Cliff Booth open in America?”

- How many IMAX screens is Greta getting for the Magician's nephew? - I don't know what the number is. - But, I copy us. - I did, over the weekend, yeah.

- I built. - I'm glad we're gonna read this again. - I think there are 400 IMAX screens in America. - Maybe less, I can be completely wrong about that. - And she's getting all of them.

- Oh, the full full run. - So when they want to, they can do a broader, but this isn't gonna be IMAX, let's see. 800, is that high, is that low? - So I, that's around the number I've heard

that movies like Frankenstein and the Nives Out Films have gotten. - Okay. - Sub 1000, but still a very hardy amount. I think they got to go over 1000 for a movie like this. Why are you even making a movie like this?

If you're, it's a Brad Pitt movie.

According to Matt Bellon, he was paid $40 million

to start a movie. Why are you even doing it for a streaming movie? It makes no sense. Anyway, it may be at the Venice Film Festival. We don't know.

But Netflix does put a lot of movies. - Netflix does put a lot of movies there,

“including David Fincher's last film, The Killer,”

and David Fincher was not only there for that premiere, but then he was just walking around in like a cream suit at other premieres, just taking it. - Who's like? - I didn't.

I was seated pretty close to him and I was just like, "Oh, cool, that's David Fincher." - You guys have a lot in common. - I really appreciate everything I know about him, his filmmaking style,

his view of the world and his aesthetic choices, which include driving around in old Mercedes convertible, which I have seen him spotted from time to time around LA. - Okay. - And you do like a double ticket.

And you're like, "Oh, I should, that's David Fincher." - Good for him. - You should say, "I don't miss it." In fact, you're gonna miss it. - I don't really think that David Fincher

wants people saying hi to him, which is one of the things I respect about him. - Okay, fair enough. Did you watch the trailer for Backrooms? - No.

- Okay, well, it's too late now. (laughs) Backrooms is a new horror movie for May 24. - Okay. - Coming out at the end of May.

It is directed by Cane Parsons. Cane Parsons is, "How many years old do you think?" - Hmm, 20. - 20? - He's 20.

- Yeah, I saw this. I saw it alluded to. I just, I didn't click that. - It's 20 years old. This film starts to tell as you for,

and we're not surprised for it, it is about seemingly a furniture store that beyond its walls features, an infinite number of rooms is a very trippy, very co-broken, very cube-like mind-fuck of a movie

very good trailer, genuinely depressing, to be 43 years old and see that a 20-year-old man has just created something. - So, how can I treat you back up? I'm talking about this before the recording started.

I just, I want you, I want you to feel happy. I want you to be restored, you were on spring break, and you feel, I feel like you came back with a negative amount. - I can only respond to what's put

in front of me. - Okay. - And so, maybe that's the problem? - What has been presented to me is my own mortality.

No, I'm excited about this movie. - Yeah. - I'm impressed that a young person has given this opportunity. I hope this movie's great.

I have a lot of plans for horror movie coverage over the next three months, 'cause we're at the dawning of a new era. - That's great. I'm excited for two-a-tile edgy-a-for,

who is wonderful.

I always think under-used.

- I agree. - When I rewatched the Martian, I was like, oh yeah, he's so great in this. - Yeah. - Yeah. He was, what is his character's name

in the Dr. Strange movies? It's like, - I, but you're asking Martian that one. - Come on, Jack, you've rewatched no clue. - More, more doc, more doc, more doc, more doc, more doc, more doc, more doc, more doc.

- Also, just wanna let you guys know the two-a-tile edgy-a-for is in the 2010 classic salt. - Anyone, Jack, you've seen salt yet? - We've talked about this. We, I have not.

- Yeah, we need to get a, this should be like, what we did with the avatar way of water. Watch a long pod for salt. - Pretty good.

“- I honestly have no desire to revisit it.”

(laughing)

And once again, I'm open to salt, too,

“which they clearly set up and then abandoned.”

- I don't think it's gonna happen. - I don't have it. - I don't have it here. - Bung Junho's next movie, Ally.

We've just seen a first look.

It's an animated feature film. There's a cute little squid-like, piglet character. - Okay. - He's good at creatures. - Very good at creatures.

- 227 animated film, your son says what? - See you there. So I was very cute when we went to see Super Mario Brothers galaxy, normal film title. Which we'll talk about later.

When we got there, I realized he thought he was seeing Projectile Mary based on remembering the, like the interactive, the big poster featuring Rang Nozzling for Projectile Mary. And he was like, no, I saw the poster when we went to hoppers.

And he's going to space. And he needs a helmet. And I just thought he was describing galaxy and Super Mario Brothers, but Rang Nozzling is not wearing a helmet

in the Projectile Mary poster. And so Knox was just worried about safety. - So he's engaged.

- The marketing of Projectile Mary,

which of course is working stunningly well, is very appealing to young kids, which is interesting, like that standy that you're referring to. - Yeah, they don't even get to see Rocky.

Like he would love Rocky. - Yeah, I think it would be a little hard to grasp most of the concepts of Projectile Mary. - Yeah.

“- But that doesn't mean you should watch it”

if you're a little kid. We didn't take out. - We, I mean, he's still too little. And there's too many dead people, and it's also two and a half hours long.

- Yeah, not ideal. All I pumped, pumped for another bond movie. Next week, at this time, one week from now, we will know the lineup of the Can Film Festival. - Okay.

- And, you know, it appears that the lineup will be relatively light on American filmmakers, which is not shocking per se, but there have been more and more in the last five or six years.

And this year, it seems like maybe James Cray is gonna be there, maybe James Shownbrun is gonna be there, maybe the Zelner Brothers, and that might be it. Speculation that the Joel Cohen movie isn't gonna be ready. We know that stuff like this closure day

and Cliff Booth and all those movies are not gonna be going. There will be a great number of international heavy weights, probably among them as Garphar Hadi, Christian Mungiu, Hama Gucci's new movie was announced.

There was a teaser for that this week, all of a sudden, I'm pumped about that. Al Midovar, Pablo Cowsky, hold on to you, Corey Heda, so... - Next, why didn't Reffen?

- Yeah, I'm excited about Reffen. And now, Reffen is there, I will track him down. I will track him down and I'll give him a big hug and try to make him uncomfortable. Any pre-game thoughts, we will break it down next week

on the show, and it's announced. - I feel like this, this base of predicting what will be at the Can lineup, is pretty crowded already, so I don't really need to insert my opinions, I'm just listening to the experts

because we're new. I'm still excited, I'm excited to see what it's about. And, you know, obviously inora came out of Can and some American films do get a boost, but Can is also typically the place where we,

you know, lowly Americans learned about the great international films of the year, so it's fine with me. - Me too, I'm curious what the noisy American may be Mandalorian Grogu, I'm not sure with a big messy, I guess John Travolta's directorial debut

was just announced as playing at the film festival. - How beautiful.

“- Have you been reading about that following along?”

Were you on set for that? - Okay, it's exciting. I'm pumped, I'm pumped, I'm pumped, I'm pumped to find out what they're gonna play. I hope there's a couple of surprises.

- Yeah. - There is a very active industry of Can predictors in the trades, and there's plenty you can read about them right now. Shall we talk about Super Mario?

Is there anything else that you wanna get into? Any other holidays you would like to bless, Fem? - Just Easter. You know, I'm happy it's spring, but also spring. - But he is risen.

- In law, I really don't care. - Okay. - Like, that's cool, but, you know, it's just a... - Is it his teaching that's done better for, for, you know, the turn of the season,

it's an every religion has them, and that's nice. - I think, I think, letting a little God

into your life would be powerful.

- I had plenty of God in my life growing up and look where I got me. - You had going to things that were organized around your parents' religion, but what about letting God into your life?

Have you considered that? - No, I'm good. I'm in charge. - What about Super Mario Galaxy movie? Have you let that into your life?

- I would like to nominate this movie for the Big Picture's coveted evil movie. - Designation? Which is at rarefire, right? Like, it's free guy, fast X, mercy,

or anything else I forgot. - Yeah, I already had one this year. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, evil movies. I took my four year old to see this at 9/30 in the morning on opening day for Spring Break.

And we had the time of our lives in that we got to, he was so excited to get to go to the movies. He's really into trailers. I think he's a great movie watcher.

which we almost missed because once again,

“his mother refuses to acknowledge the existence”

of credit sequences. - No, no, no, no, no, no, like the post credit. - Oh, I'm sorry, the post credit. - Post credit sequence. And so I was glad to have that opportunity.

And I don't regret you anyone who it's looking for to like who takes their job to see this movie. You should, like I did too. But I found this experience, I found this like creatively and aesthetically bankrupt

in a way that I was kind of bummed to be sitting next to my kid and exposing my kid to it. And I could also watch him kind of power down. He just had that sort of sedated slopp face that was going on throughout the movie.

And that's listen, there are plenty of different ways and plenty of kids in our team had to do it. And I also put screens in front of my child to kill time so I can do the dishes or whatever. But it bummed me out, it bummed me out a little bit more

“than the first one because it did feel even more.”

Let's just combine as many different super Mario things as we can into it. And it felt a little more commercial-grabby. And I know that it's a technical achievement or whatever, but I found it so depressing to look at.

- I'm pretty much with you. - Yeah. I mean, join me seeing the movie that I was yesterday and as soon as it was over,

first of all, I also had the time of her life.

- That's great. - It's great. - She loved Rosalina, the new princess, so she was hyperlars and was very elixir- - I mean, even more in the same-

- She made complete date Elsa in the Mario lore. - Okay. - I don't really know. - To be honest with you. - That can be settled between intendos and Disney's lawyers.

- She had a great time. She really enjoyed learning that spoiler alert, Rosalina, and Princess Peach are in fact related. They're sisters. Nothing, my daughter loves more than princesses or sisters,

also very frozen. - Yeah. But I turned to Eileen afterwards and I said, I thought that was quite dire. And she said, that's one of the worst movies

I've ever seen in my life. And that's fascinating because this movie is clearly going to be a mega smash and make a shit ton of money. And even dramatically outperform things like free guy and fast ex at the box office.

I haven't actually have a lot of thoughts. These movies tend to bring a lot of ideas from me about kind of where movies are and what people want from movies. I think what you're saying is right, which is that this feels like a big agglomeration

of a lot of Mario fan service and keys jingling and remember this character from this game and remember when you heard this sound effect

“and it made you feel like this and I think”

if you're anywhere from the ages of like four to 11, it's fun, it's a lot of fun. And if you're like 20 and you have a lot of nostalgia, 30 and have a lot of nostalgia for Mario, you will get something satisfying out of this,

but it is narratively brutal. And there are no characters, there's no defining traits of any of the characters. I thought it, it is like this very flashy fast moving 3D animation style that is increasingly prevalent.

- Yeah, I don't know if I thought it was ugly so much as I thought it was noisy. - I would agree, like I said, I understand that it is technically accomplished.

And it doesn't look bad or ugly the way that the third acts

of many Marvel movies look bad. It's like we've read out a time and we just didn't have the resources required to achieve what was in our heads. I think it was noisy, frenetic.

You know, as we mentioned, there are so many references and like they're not even jokes, they're just like sound cues that are supposed to take you back at Jamden to this movie, but the pace was really, really shocking in--

- So fast. - So fast. And the cuts are so fast and they move from one quote problem, even faster than you can move through worlds in a super Mario game.

- Yes. - And it really did feel like it was edited in that, you know, that really nefarious Coca-Cola melon things that just move so fast on the screen that your child's brain turns off.

- I totally agree with you. The thing that this had me thinking about is as the primacy of intellectual property shifts from things like superheroes to video games, and those movies are increasingly engineered for children.

You have this pretty dramatic shift in what animated movies are.

of Disney adapting, great works of literature, fairy tales, stories from around the world, and re-contextualizing them. Sometimes whitewashing them, sometimes stripping them if some of their sharper edges and reducing the stories down to very simple ideas, but they were at least based

in a certain kind of a work that had some archetypal and cultural value. The last 25 years, things have changed a little bit, the introduction of Pixar, the introduction of 3D animation,

“has changed, I think, the tone of a lot of these movies”

that they have gotten a lot more smart-allicky, they've gotten a lot more adult sensibility for me. But the stories themselves,

there's always been a kind of gentle quality,

I would say, to the bulk of children's animated movies. - Sure, you're learning about yourself. - Yes, they're emotional, they're internal, they're often very moral. They have a kind of like an idea about family,

or an idea about the self, or an idea about how you participate in a society, the movies are not perfect. I'm not trying to valorize them at the expense of this other stuff, 'cause there's always been junk and crap for kids.

But what making movies around video games does is it makes these movies action movies, because video games are action. They are driven by ops, avoiding obstacles, defeating villains, eluding capture.

And so that pace that you're talking about is right on, and part of the reason that it's right on is 'cause it's mimicking what it's like to play a video game, where you're in a constant state of movement, going from one thing to the next.

So now what we're doing is like we're training, and I don't think I'm over intellectualizing this. We're training five year olds, or nine year olds, to expect action in a discrete and consistent way in these kinds of movies.

This isn't the first movie that ever did this.

Like it has been happening slowly. Had a train your dragon as like this, that they introduced fantasy movies and animated form, Kung Fu Panda introduced martial arts movies, and animated form, the bad guys,

those are heist movies, the Batman movie, is a superhero movie, so it's not like super Mario Bears, the weight of this responsibility, but it does feel like a culmination of 15 or 20 years of animated movies used to be the sanctity of a princess,

or a prince, or someone who's attempting to has a great journey of self-discovery. And now this is a movie about like five different characters and five different places at the same time, and they all are having a crazy adventure,

and then they're all gonna converge on each other and there's gonna be a big fight.

“And that's what superhero movies are, too.”

You know, that's kind of what most actors, that's what the fast franchise does. They split the big groups up and they bring everybody together. And so it feels like very formulaic, and it also is like training us to enjoy

a certain kind of a story structure at a very young age. I'm making this anthropological because I'm very interested in animation and what it does for kids and how they understand stories, but I do think that this is kind of the bottom

of the barrel version of this kind of thing. Like the bad guys, those movies are fine. They're not that bad. They have real characters. They have fun performances, the scripts are not that bad.

They're iterative, but they're a good way to kill time. - Yes, I agree with you, felt something more insidious here. - I mean, I think you're right. And fast X is probably the fast movies or fast X is most app comparison because that is also the bottom

of the barrel, of that execution of that idea. But it is that the only point of this movie is to watch things go really fast and then explode. And whether it explodes via some purple goo or whether there's like another spaceship,

the really intense movement and the more and more in the palette is the point. I asked my son afterwards what Super Mario Brothers Galaxy was about and he said a ship that shoots lasers.

“Which I think is a little bit the only thing”

that he could really like Glamontu and his mind because he recognized a ship that shoots lasers, he did also understand that Princess Peach had a sister, Rosalina. So he understood siblings and ships that shoot lasers.

But that, he's not wrong, that's what it was about. There were many different ships that shot lasers. I kind of got bored. Watch, I was like, well, what would ship is this? And what are you doing now?

Because there's not enough to grab onto you. And I did, I was sitting there next to my kid and I was like, I'm being a little bit of a Goldilocks because we came out of hoppers and we've been talking about the later stage Pixar movies

in particular and saying these are starting to feel like more like for adults than for children. Or you know, all children's entertainment has now

has to have this second layer of like winking reference

for the adults to keep them entertained. But you're starting to like see the strings on that. And now I'm saying that this just has absolutely this children's entertainment has nothing

And so you know, what will make me happy? I guess what would make me happy is like a good movie that my my children and I could relate to that doesn't feel completely bankrupt of all ideas and human emotion.

But that's just me. - I don't think it's an unreliable request.

“I think it's the movie exists for obvious reasons.”

It actually is shocking how long it took Nintendo to adapt and animated Super Mario Brothers movie for wide audiences.

And the first movie being a big success

was not shocking. There wasn't a whole lot to say about that movie because they were introducing the key characters. You had a handful of very famous people sublime the voices.

This is the sequel as with all sequels. There needs to be more and more right there needs to be an expansion of the universe, more characters. And I remember laughing more at the first. - It seemed like a more modest film, maybe too.

And so in that way, like it just was trying to spin fewer plates. It felt very tightly focused on there's Mario and Luigi and then there's Princess Peach. She is the princess of this land

that she doesn't even totally understand she doesn't know where her family is. But they need to basically protect her from Bowser who wants to marry her and kidnap her. That was the whole movie.

And that's basically how we understand

the Super Mario Brothers video game franchise. That doesn't encompass Mario 10ists in Super Mario Kart and all the Donkey Kong storylines and Mario Paint and Dr. Mario and the the myriad Mario games that have come out

since I was playing video games in the 80s and 90s. So this movie is trying to have a lot of those things. It's trying to squeeze in a lot of those things. One, my, my dumb brain, my lizard brain as it were enjoyed Yoshi enjoyed enjoyed seeing Yoshi

in the movie. Alice got a huge kick out of Yoshi just doing the egg thing. You know eating somebody. Yeah, you know dropping an egg. That person that Yoshi ate was inside the egg.

This could visually show. - Yeah. - But in all the 90s, it's also happened so quickly because this, I mean, this entire movie is on like three X-Fast Forward.

- Yeah.

- And I didn't, it rushed the joke.

Like the joke was almost a step on. So I think that's gonna breathe. This is not a lot of room to laugh. It did feel very, feel free Michael Bay. - You put that in the spreadsheet and you know,

it's, you see Michael Bay everywhere

“but I think that this is, I think this is correct.”

- Well, I think Michael Bay. - But I was usually doing things visually that seem impossible with humans on set. And sometimes they're dangerous. This is animation, so it's just not impressive.

It's just sort of like, it's just a lot going on fast and loud. - The, the mournus and just like how much can we do? And also perhaps, I, I disregard for emotion or like moral concerns of any kind.

- Yes. - Does track with Michael Bay. I definitely see it. I think that Michael Bay makes more, if not beautiful, memorable images.

- I agree. What's your take on Bowser Jr.? - You know, happy for, for Benny to get that check. And I, so, so did Bowser, senior or Bowser Jr. put on the puppet show?

- I was, I believe was Bowser, senior, - Four Bowser, four Bowser, four Bowser, was a, you know, a wonderful audience member. I thought that was a lovely puppet show. And there was another moment, and it's a completely

different animation style, right? Or, and then there's another moment when Star Fox, who I didn't know about, but Zach was like, very solemnly, yes, Star Fox is very important. Voice by Glenn Powell, who I, I thought did a great job,

you know, being Star Fox on solo, yeah. But his introduction is done in like a illustrated, you know, hand-drawn image, yeah, old school style, which I thought was very compelling. But, you know, both of those instances took me out

of the movie, 'cause I was like, oh, you can do something visually interesting. You're just choosing this slide. - Yeah, but that is the, - I don't know. - I don't know.

- I don't know. - I don't know. - Of the contemporary animation, I wonder if that will change. I wonder what the next phase of that even is, because we've had, we've seen these various evolutions in style or de-evolutions as it were.

I don't know, I'm curious to see. I think this movie is, um, quite poor.

“- Yeah, any conversation after the movie in your home?”

- We hit on the same issue, as I mentioned, the sister relationship was very impactful and I think made the movie feel a little more coherent. Very clear that Bowser and Bowser Jr. are a trouble.

They're not good. I was doing bedtime last night, and Alice said, Dad, I think you might be a Koopa, which is not good. You don't want to be that. You don't want to be a minion, a service of Bowser.

That's problematic for me. - But what did Alice think of the minions trailer for minions? God and monsters, is that what we're calling it? - Minions and monsters. - Minions and monsters.

about the late filmmaker James Whale, that's portrayed by Ian McKellen. - Okay. - 'Cause in 1990's Oscar-bate film. - You can have it all in the big picture.

- Yeah, you can certainly can. This is the way we bring to the table. She main learning grogotrailer is pure crack. - Yeah. - It is like the Rockstar eyes exploded when that comes on.

Minions, captive audience, you know what we saw. And it was my first time seeing it, 'cause as I said, I was not really following the news, while I was on vacation, is the Supergirl trailer. And Alice saw that and she's a who's that.

That's my new best friend. - Oh good, okay, that's good. We found the audience for the Supergirl trailer. - Not me, but I think she's the one. - I think Max kind of perked up.

He liked the music cues in the Supergirl trailer.

But you know, I've never been prater

than when my child just started absolutely cracking up as soon as the minions did anything. They exact same physical comedy that speaks to me about the minions, speaks to him. - That's so helpful.

- Yeah. - You guys can see that together, maybe I'll skip it. Some of his gonna make. - Nox did wanna come to a podcast. I will do my own podcast with Alice.

It's gonna be about space. But, and then maybe also minions got it monsters. And he can sit in that chair. - That's really exciting. Alice did once recorded a podcast and by recording,

I mean, she sat in that chair. We didn't record anything. I was about the last unicorn. - Okay. - Wonderful animated film featuring voice work from Angela Lansberry.

It is about the last unicorn. - Oh. - Okay. If you wanna show that to Nox, you can do a follow-up.

I'm sure that they would do great together.

She also is fond of referring to Bill. - Oh. - Who is my boss? - Yeah. - Our boss.

And when we were making the podcast, she kept turning to the booth and kept saying, "Bill, is that good?" (laughing) Where did she learn?

- She's meant to hear it. - Actually, I don't know.

“I think she probably just heard me talking to Eileen”

and being like, "Oh, Bill's calling." - So whatever. And she'd be like, "Dad, who's Bill?" So, sorry, Jack, but I think she thinks that Bill, in addition to being the boss,

also produces the show. She does also know about Jack though. And she does have questions about Jack and what Jack is doing. - Well, Jack met both of our children

at the K-pop demon hunt on this week. - And she was asking. - Yeah, yeah. - And I think-- - And I think-- - You look large. - Yeah. - That's great.

I think it's a good question. What does he do? We don't exactly-- - We don't know. - We just does stuff. - I'll never know.

(laughing)

- Okay, how do we pivot out of 300 million dollars a speaking?

500 million dollars? - That's $10 billion. - It's made 34 and a half million domestic on a Wednesday. - Like, we were there, you know? - Yeah. - And 9 30 and was not the first showing.

I think it was maybe the third showing. - Well, I believe there were Tuesday night midnight screenings. - Okay. - Very cool. - Yeah. - Very cool. - Yeah. - Very cool.

- Yeah. - Yeah, it's gonna do very well. - That's fine. - Let's take a look at the movie. - Everybody needs something to do during spring break.

- Let's start the new. - This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. There is such a thing as becoming too comfortable in your day-to-day, but our favorite films with stories that make us change the way we think,

they weren't made by people content to just sit back and watch the world pass by.

“This is your sign that you should neither.”

For most, VW and the other drivers out there, grab the wheel. Do what you love, even if it means taking the road less traveled. Learn more at VW.com. - Let's pivot through the drama.

- Yeah. - This is our Super Mario Brothers Galaxy movie. - Absolutely. - Let's, before you say another word. - Okay. - I'm going straight to camera.

- Okay. - Okay. - Do not listen to this until you have seen the drama. I'm serious. It's not even like, it's not because I don't want to be yelled at. It's because I want you to experience the movie

without spoilers. Turn it off. I mean it. And come back when you've seen the movie. Thank you.

- You're absolutely right to set it up that way. This is the new movie Written and Directed by Christopher Borgley. He was a guest on this show a few years ago for his film Dream scenario. It's his fourth feature film.

He's an Norwegian director. It stars in Daya, Robert Pattinson. Mama-do-Athi, Alanna Heim, Haley Gates, and Zoe Winters, the plot synopsis as follows days before they're wedding a couple's relationship

is shaken when one partner discovers unsettling truths about the other. There is a kind of a plot twist in this movie. And that's why you're setting the table in the way that you are.

- Yeah. - But it is really more sort of like a piece of information that is shared that they reveal, a reveal that influences the actions of the characters throughout the rest of the movie. It comes remind me about half an hour into the movie,

so I'm somewhere in that vicinity.

“So I'll start with what did you think of the drama?”

- Absolutely, and on this, I loved it. It is, as you said, a dream come, and it is not what has been portrayed in or suggested in the press tour that has been very heavily wedding focused,

And today has been wearing like something borrowed, something blue,

that they've been doing like wedding, romantic comedy. - Very materialist, two-point homework. - Exactly, which we'll talk about. But it takes a different turn, but in many ways, it is also kind of a classical romantic comedy. It knows the beats, and it knows what it is working against,

not just the audience's expectations, but also of what happens in these movies, but the actual form, the beats, the set pieces. I think it's very smart. This is my kind of,

my kind of scandy perspective, like sometimes I have a block, but I'm really in line

“with this view of the world, and I think it pulls it off.”

I know many people will not think that. I understand that this is gonna be a hot button issue, but I think it totally works.

- I thought it worked too.

I told you that I saw it a long time ago. I think I saw it maybe six months ago, five months ago. And so I was seeing it very cold, and quite enjoyed myself. I have a real affinity for Borglies,

court gesture, little stinker attitude towards humanity. It is something that is fairly consistent, I think with some other A24 filmmakers, and he gets lumped in with them. There's a little bit R.E.S.R.A.R.R.S.

- I mean, R.E.S.R is a producer on this film, and that makes a lot of sense. - There is a sense of like, most people are very vulnerable, fallible, insecure, and bumbling, and stupid.

And this movie is an interesting exploration of that, from both perspectives, the movie leans more towards Robert Pattinson's character, despite then having such a big star and such a big part of that marketing that you're describing.

- We could talk about the utility or lack of utility around that, and whether or not this is really a movie about humanity, or just an exercise. As an active entertainment and kind of like provocation,

I think it's very successful. And these are the kinds of worlds that you and I have walked in. You know, we've lived in cities in America, we've worked, these kind of like white collar computer jobs, you know, we have nice furniture.

- But with like creative gilding, but you know, they are still just e-mails and performance reviews. - Right, you trick yourself into thinking that you have some sort of creative soul, but in fact, you were a cog in a broader machine,

and you know, Borglies very incisive and insightful about the vanity of these people, the frivolity of these people. And also that there is like a real genuine human frailty that like everyone's trying to understand about themselves,

but that once you hear about someone else's frailty, it's how quick you are to judge them. - Yeah. - So I think it's pretty clever.

“I think I could see it being like an amazing script”

to receive and be like, holy shit, while reading it, not knowing anything. The movie is wrong footing and odd the audience somewhat. And I'm quite curious to see how they respond to it, but I also think his filmmaking style

and his command of tone is very specific and very strong. - His observations, like it is very tightly written, like recognizable, both script and the production design, all of the details are when they want to be indicting, very much art.

This movie is also set in Boston, quote unquote, and like, I don't think this, I know they filmed in Boston, but like has Christophe or Borglies ever been to Boston? - I don't know. - I don't know.

- Doesn't have the character of Boston. - Yeah, like it's, you know, when it wants to attack something or investigate an idea or do you an exercise, it's really, really spot on. And then it does leave some other things totally to the wayside.

- Yeah, do you think, do you wanna say more things about what works so well before getting into

“that critical piece of information that is revealed to us?”

- Yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, it ultimately is a movie about Charlie, the Robert Pattinson character. And some of that is because of the structure in the reveal, and it is the Zendaya character Emma,

who has this shocking bit of information. And then, so you, the audience are put in the perspective, both like structurally, but in terms of the story of the movie into Charlie's point of view, what is he gonna do? Or how is he gonna handle this?

So it is, it's a Pattinson movie, more than a Zendaya movie, and I think weird,

bungling Pattinson, who's still kind of hot, is amazing.

And I think he's wonderfully used and really funny in this. - Yeah, I agree. - And someone who was more or less confident

Also, I think notably he's not playing an American, like he's obviously not an American in real life, but he does get a little bit of distance from the more America-coated aspects of what's going on in this film,

which is definitely not an accident.

- I never would have guessed that his most favorite screen persona

would be Hugh Grant meets Albert Brooks, but like that's sort of where he's going with these kinds of characters. There's a little bit of that in Mickey 17. That's certainly a lot of that in this movie.

That's not obviously not his Bruce Wayne, but it feels closest to the personality he shows us in the world. Yeah, he's a little bit dopey, will silly. - But also very insightful.

Did you watch any of the clips of another of A24's great marketing gimmicks was that they had the four main actors. So that is Zendaya, Robert Pattinson, Mamduati, and Alana Haim, like, do a relationship outline?

- No. - And they had people call in and ask questions. And Robert Pattinson is the only person speaking any sense throughout the whole, and he's also sort of confronting the one question that's posed is,

I'm supposed to be bridesmaid in a couple of weeks,

and I don't really like this person. Like, what should I do? I don't want to be in the wedding. And the other three people are like, well, you need to have a conversation,

“you need to be up front, you shouldn't do it.”

And Pattinson is like, you want to cancel this, you want to tell this person two weeks more just getting married, I don't like you. Just say you're sick, 100% the right answer, but...

- It's obviously not what I would do. - Well, what would you do? - I would obviously just do it and accept it and pretend to perform, and just feel like this is fine. - Well, sure, but I think what we can all agree

is that having an emotional heart to heart. - Yes, no, that's not a good idea. - But I thought it was telling in the context of the film itself, and what is considered like correct social and emotional values

versus what actually happens in life, what, you know, what you're valuing, what you, how you should contact yourself, and Pattinson is kind of on the outside, both in these videos and in the movie.

- That's the right way to tee up the revolution to in the movie. So in the film, Zendaya and Pattinson's characters are getting, are about to get married

and they're going through the steps of potential marriage, which is, you know, they're preparing with photographers and they're, you know, they picked out a venue and they're doing food and wine tasting. - And they've invited friends to go along

to do these tastings, and the quartet of people are taking their sweet time at the tasting, and they're asking for, is it one more glass of skin? - Yeah, could we have another bottle of the skin contact

that haven't made up my mind? - Right, the sort of the, you know, Pattinson was wow, you know, city dweller.

“- I think skin contact is finally out by the way,”

and I'm so happy. - It's finally out.

- That's another thing I was never on,

but like no Easter and no skin contact wine. - There's sort of, sort of related, right? Like the blood of Christ, why don't know if that was skin contact or not, is there a call?

- Yeah. - When the transfiguration happened. Transpstenciation, that's what it was. So they're, they're getting drunk, and they're hanging out, and there's a woman who's looking after them

as they're trying these wines, and as it's often the case when you're in social settings like this, people start creating these sort of like idea games to keep the conversation going, and I believe it's a lot of Hunter's character says,

let's go around the table and say, what's the worst thing any of us has ever done? - She tees it up, but she's also looking for, what she does actually is that she makes her and I will husband tell everyone the worst thing

that he's ever done, because she's drunk, and she explains that they did this before the wedding, but really, she just wants it out on the table. - Yes, she's a toxic character. - She is.

- And so they go around and tell me,

“remember what the worst thing he has ever done is.”

I remember what she did, but she would she lock the boy with the who was disabled in a he like a shack. - He used his girlfriend as a human shield against a dog that was about to attack them. - That's right. - Yeah, well, not ideal.

- No, it's not good, but it's also just sort of, it's, the blame there is with the dog, and the dog owner, really. - Okay, well they said he was a street dog, he didn't have an owner.

- We're not attacked dogs right now. - I don't attack dogs, I just attacked dog owners, but I don't take responsibility for their dogs. - They go around the table, it stops its in-day's character. - Yeah, and she reveals the worst thing that she's ever done.

- Yes, which is actually not doing anything. - Yes, once again, we're spoiling. So, you know, do your thing. - She reveals that she imagined dreamed and planned a school shooting.

When she was a teenager in high school in Louisiana, and she did not go through with it, but that she did spend a lot of time thinking about it, scheming on it, fantasizing about it.

- Yes.

- Because this is a, even though the two previous,

or three previous stories that have been shared, are like a little scandalous through a little, like, oh, you shouldn't have done that and moralizing about it. - I'm putting people in harm's way in varying degrees.

- There is obviously a taboo quality, a taboo aspect to school shootings in that level of violence, and anyone who's been associated with that kind of violence in our society. And so, obviously the two friends are shocked.

A lot of times, character is very offended. And Robert Pence's character is in this unusual position, in which the person that he is about to agree to spend the rest of his life with, considered engineering of violent mass murder,

when she was a teenager, didn't do it, which she considered it. - Yeah.

- So the possibility, theoretically,

is there lurking in this person, or is it? - Now there's a natural human drama out of this revelation, right? What's gonna happen? Show these people stay together,

how is he feeling in the aftermath of this? And the movie then does spend about 40 minutes, kind of like getting close to his skin and like trying to understand how he feels and how he's coping with this information.

And what he should do and whether or not he sees this person in the same light. The movie is also simultaneously doing something, and I find movies are very, don't usually do very well, which is forcing you to think in real time

about a moral paradox while a story is unfolding. - Yeah. - And this sort of like, well, how would I feel? And what I do have plunged into this situation, so I ask you.

- And even what should these characters do? And how are you, like are you rooting, who are you rooting for? In this and what are you rooting for to happen? Like, what do you think the outcome should be?

And how does that shift based on the new information that you learned?

Because as you mentioned, the first night

she reveals, you know, the basic fact, but there are a lot of unanswered questions. And then she just vomit spectacularly. There's a lot of projectile vomiting in this film, which I enjoy.

“And I underused, I think, as a visual gag.”

- We'll keep that in mind, 'cause the recommendations going for you. And then the next 40 minutes, he is trying to figure out what to do, but his first instinct is like, I need to learn more.

So I need to learn, like, what do you really mean when you say you plan, like a school shooting? And then like, why didn't you do it? And what are the circumstances? And then the film really digs in.

And all of them, it uses both like flashbacks and hallucinations. And I thought like an impressive and like pretty fluid way. And you could also tell they spend a lot of time and money on the dreams and areas forgive me.

And the flashbacks, which some movies don't, you know? But so they show you in, what I thought was like, pretty surprising detail, they cast a teenage actor to be the teenage Emma character. She just has a rifle that she has used.

And in the woods, she is, you are seeing a lot of it. You are watching her do like several takes of a pre-recorded like manifesto that she is doing. So it's not just like a cute premise or a shocking premise that they toss off

and then get into psychological stuff. You do have to live with the planning of the school shooting and the reality of it.

“And a way that I, I was surprised by as I think,”

was intended to be right. Like they, it is a provocation, but they commit to their provocation. - Totally, I think also the style of filmmaking changes pretty dramatically.

Like again, it's been sometimes since I've seen it, but I seem to recall the kind of tone and texture of the sequences when she is a teenager, being a little bit grittier and feeling almost more handheld. The, his filmmaking has this kind of like,

airy smooth quality to it, a very Scandinavian touch in terms of the grace with which he moves through these kind of anxious comedies that he writes. But in those sequences in particular, they felt certainly more period

and they're set in the south instead of in the east. - Yes. - And the environment that he's shooting in, a lot of exteriors, her car bedroom, which is this kind of safe haven,

even the school that she's in. And then there's like a thorniness to that aspect of the story that I would say is not fully explored, but maybe it's appropriate that it's not, which is that this young girl is a black teenager

in a school and she feels very outcast. - Right.

“- And the, seemingly one of the key motivations”

for her planning a school shooting is that she wants to seek revenge on the people who have outcast her. And we see over time, we learn through these flashbacks and through his undead talking through the experience

but she actually finds community amongst a group

of people who are anti-violence and anti-school shootings. And that there's a sort of like a group. And one assumes this is in the early 2000s in a post column by in America where there's like a much more of a consciousness in high schools about this.

And she pivots away from being this disaffected person with no friends, finding community and improving her life and maybe having a, maybe a clearer head about some of these ideas. And also becoming an anti-gun activist, yes.

Which the Pattinson character does say, like, didn't you feel a little bit hypocritical, which is one of the only instances I remember in the script of someone actually trying to push another push judgment or emotion on another person,

which I thought was notable because,

I think the criticisms in addition

to it being essentially raceblind

“is I think the way that it just doesn't,”

as you say, explore any of the American consequences, like the consequences of this being an American black teenage girl in the South, having this high school experience I'm responding to it in this way,

or then flipping and what puts her into it and what puts her out of it. But then it doesn't explore that. And it does not take school shootings or anti-gun activism, seriously in the way

that we Americans do. And there is even another line when Robert Pattinson is speaking to the two friends, and trying to work through his feelings and he says something to the effect of,

like this is sort of an American thing, right? Like this is something that you guys are very touchy about but the rest of us, you know, just understand he's trying to extract himself from all of the sociopolitical implications,

which is definitely the approach that this movie takes. And so like you asked earlier as like an exploration or an exercise, I think exercise is too dismissive but it is not exploring the ramifications

of race in America or school shootings as something that is like a particular specific blight of this country and something we need to do with it.

“- Yeah, I think it's short of treating them like chess pieces”

but also short of really drilling down into them. But I want things I liked about the movie and I think some critics will completely disagree with this. It didn't go out of its way to have that character give a big monologue about how she was mistreated

and this is why the way she is.

Because that isn't always how people think of themselves

and often those are dramatic devices that are created in movies so that we can like fully understand the psychological mapping of a certain character. And this movie is being a little bit more elusive

about that and why I think that's powerful is because this is a movie about a confused teenager. She's grown up and she's about to get married but it's about the psychology of a confused teenager and what the choices that she made

and how they impacted the rest of her life. And nobody knows anything when they're teenagers and you think you know everything but you don't know anything

“and whether or not you should be held accountable”

for the feelings and the ideas that you had as a teenager is kind of the psychological crux of the movie. Right. And the other psychological crux of the movie is from Charlie's side which is you know

the simpler what can you know or not know about anyone. And it's about the terror of getting married in many ways and it is the most provocative situation. I was going through other lists of horrible things that I could imagine that someone did or--

Is it a lot to keep on the regular? No, okay. But there's no particular permutation where you know because if someone does something like truly horrible like kill someone

or something then there's no gray area. And but if it's something with too much gray area then you're not going to be as like drawn in and is stressed out about what should you do? Should you forgive this person?

- Something like that. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, like literally not knowing what you do and knowing that as an audience member as well as the character on screen.

So I, you know, I agree that the ethics or the morality of the topics involved are not super like explored. Neither really are the characters. Like these are all,

if not archetypes then chess pieces is unfair because that would suggest that they're not scripted out. They're not serving their purpose. But I think everybody is moving around

you know, tense way.

“- I think it's very consistent with the three,”

the two previous board of the movies with a sick of myself, which is a Scandinavian film. It is very funny and very dark dream scenario in this movie. And all three of those movies,

I think have this underlying idea that most people going through life are kind of performing, you know, that like the real self and this is board least point of view I suspect that you're doing things that you think are expected of you,

whether that's society's pressures or individual pressures or how you erase and the way in which that is kind of impeding upon your true self and that there are a few people are able to kind of live comfortably and specifically the way that they want to live.

There's like a kind of stymied quality to a lot of his characters. And you couldn't really tell a movie with board least sensibility through the eyes of Zendais character,

'cause it would necessitate a little bit more vulnerability

“and understanding of what was happening there.”

Charlie is the person who was like, "Well, shit, what do I do now?" And how does this affect me and my performance of my perfect life? And the movie starts so interestingly,

I even though I've seen it a while ago, I can't forget it's that moment where he's observing her in a coffee shop and he's like looking at her and waiting for his in to go make a move because he's drawn to her. - Right.

- Because she's Zendais, she looks like Zendais. She looks like the kind of person who you're like, "Now that's the kind of person I should be married to." And his anxiety and his concern and his kind of overthinking of having the right social experience

like that defines the tone of the movie.

- Yes, and then ultimately what he does

is looks up the title of her book and lies about having read it. - Hence the performance. - Yeah, no, what's interesting is that character with then reveals the pretense pretty quickly on the first date.

So there is, you know, how much people are willing to perform is sort of an inverse ratio and to how much bodily values them or likes them in the film, which I relate to. But this is another reason why a wedding

is such a perfect choice for the setting of this movie. And it really is more of a wedding movie than the whole school shooting of it. - A little. - It does break your rule.

But I guess it starts like the week of the wedding. So it does technically start with a wedding and it ends after the wedding. - It does. - So in that sense, it could barely hold onto your role,

which is weddings that movies that start with a wedding are good and movies that end with a wedding are bad. - Movies very rarely end with weddings this disastrous. - That's true, but they're so funny. But everything in the lead up to the wedding

about the wedding itself and the performance of the wedding and the people in the industry, it's just one of the great wedding bullshit movies. There's like a dance instructor who is just so mean to them. And also why are they learning a dance

to perform at their wedding? I know it's a thing that people do. - But a lot of this stuff is very true, though. - I mean, of course. - It's a very sharp satire about this world.

- The shot list that Zoe Winter has placed a wedding

for talk for that scene is absolutely incredible.

The tasting menu you mentioned. There's a wedding DJ who shows up because the original wedding DJ gets fired because she was doing heroin on the streets. - I love that.

- That side was so good when they're watching. But that was, that there are a number of moments like this where how we judge other people that we don't know very well is this one of the central conceits of the film. And that one in particular is so interesting.

And the idea of that woman who denies it, denies that she is doing what it was so clear to them that she was doing. And the idea of like everyone kind of trying to protect something and not being comfortable being who they are

is like the subtext of the entire movie. But the wedding stuff is the inversion of that because it is the most public act. It's the place where you invite all of your loved ones. Everyone who really knows you to see you do something

“that everyone believes you should all do to be truly happy”

in this society. And invariably it's like the people who are in this industry are just like the biggest ghouls in the world, which is clever. And I didn't have that experience.

I had a perfectly nice wedding. But you know, I know you have some conflict with Alex. I thought that this was extremely well observed. And then there is a structural element

where for the first part of the movie,

the patents and characters trying to write his perfect wedding speech and what would be the performed ideal version of his declaration of love for this person.

But also the the most performative and the worst person in the movie is the Elanaheim character who ultimately gives one of the great nightmare made of honor, wedding toasts, which I think we should just,

and I can say this because I'm a woman,

though I've never been a made of honor,

we should outlaw these.

“It just, it honestly, it goes very badly most of the time.”

- Have you ever given a toast to the wedding? - Yeah, I will have the rehearsal dinner. - Okay. - Yeah, yes, yes, yes. - And I did a great job.

But don't worry about it. You did too when you gave one at our wedding. - Yeah, I've given a few. - In general, unless you're really ready to give the toast as my sister-in-law,

Ruthie Baron was at our wedding, like, don't do it, you know, come with the goods or just say I love you and go home. But this one purposefully for the film,

is just a absolutely cringy nightmare,

and she is putting on the performance of being outraged that people like aren't being honest, even though she's doing it in a wedding speech, it's great stuff, it's really good. - It's just another nice little snapshot of an idea too,

which is that the thin line between the beloved eternal friendship and mortal enemy is very thin, and that one simple revelation can also fracture that relationship profoundly. You know, it doesn't make you wonder

why a lot of time is even at that wedding. You know, like why she's continued to participate in that friendship in any meaningful,

“it's a little confusing, but I think the movie”

has like three different sets and tones. One is what seems to be a kind of frothy rom-com. At the beginning, very quickly pivots to almost like a social thriller, with some kind of anxiety, ammo baked inside,

and then the final third of the movie

is like borderline slapstick comedy. I mean, the wedding in particular is very outsized and big in a way that the first half of the movie isn't, and it starts with patents and pursuing an abungling fashion, this kind of impromptu office affair

with Haley, then Gates's character, which I thought was so funny and so strange, and so off-kilter in the way that like some of the best stuff in this movie is, which then culminates in like a big thrashing moment in the finale.

The movie seems to lose a little bit of interest, I think in some of that like provocation and like who are we really idea as it goes into the final third? I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing 'cause I think in the movie,

“I think Dream scenario had a hard time tying up its loose ends,”

and this movie seems more tightly focused on making sure that we get to the end of this movie in a clean way. Perhaps too clean. I don't know what do you think about that?

- I mean, I appreciated the very classical romantic comedy ending turned on its head, which is satisfying in that real puzzle sense of we get to where we're going, and as soon as it starts, the call back.

You're like, oh, I see, put the piece here, and you put the piece here, and there is something both soothing about that as a viewer, and then also because this entire movie has been a rejection of not just romantic comedies,

but also the idea of love and marriage and weddings and the ability to know someone else. It works because it's tied in a bow, but also is it at all, and then you wonder what's gonna happen next,

and it's a neat ending that is also not neat. And I appreciate that. I agree that it completely just drops the ethics of the school shooting of it all, and if there are people who watch this

and are just very offended by that segment of the film, and don't think that it's addressed appropriately, or born out respectfully, I completely understand that. - I just think that I don't agree. - Yeah, that level of pies and this doesn't necessarily

fail to me in terms of a movie like this, this is a movie that is certainly talking about serious subjects, but it's a tempting to have fun with individual human foibles, which is something that I enjoy. I think it's really good.

I think it's impressive. - Totally agree. - A whole certain part of the talk. - I have to talk about the apartment for a little. I mean, I just, and you mentioned,

like this like scandy quality, and I suppose there is a scandy, mid-century modern element to the design of the apartment, but it is, it's so knowing, it was like Sophia Copa, level of detail.

Like there are like 14 different Akari lamps.

like the Zelej tile and the kitchen.

Obviously, the spiral staircase, they just, all everything that's in there is wearing the details are playing into the film and spot-on, and tell a story other, and I was very missed. - Yeah, I get the impression he walks through

these works, for consistently. And I think he's also kind of in a tour for our times insofar as we live in a time when people will fight online about the dumbest bullshit for hours and hours and hours, but when something genuinely culturally socially dangerous

or scary comes up, everybody's like, fuck. Like I don't know what to do, like in person, I don't know how to have this conversation without either hectoring someone about it or completely turning off.

And there's no middle ground, there's no ability to kind of talk about our feelings about things or mistakes that we've made in a productive way, which is a very European sensibilities that bring to an American setting.

And I think he's very good at it. I like this movie. Now, I don't know if this is gonna be a hit. I think it's cool that Zen Day and Pattons are throwing their weight behind stuff like this.

I think this is what you're supposed to do. You can make Batman, and you can make Dune,

“and you should also make these kinds of movies.”

If it's successful, it's going to be entirely on their shoulders. That's like we want to spend time with them for two hours in a movie theater. And also the A24, you know, hide the ball strategy, which you invoke to materialists.

And this is maybe not the same week, but the same time of the year last year the materialists got its release. - Yes. - And many people felt that they were getting or expected a romantic comedy.

And instead got, you know, a man shortening his legs. - Yeah, like shortening for him, yeah. - And didn't respond, and there was a mismatch between the marketing and what audiences got. That they purposeful, purposeful.

And people still went to see the materialists. - Yeah, materialists, you know, we had a ball talking about him to show. And we both thought it was very, very mixed bag of stuff. I think this movie is a little bit more successful,

creatively, and we'll be a little bit less successful culturally, because I do think you have more people who are going to be like, what the fuck is that? - About this movie? - Yeah. - Whereas materialists was sort of like, huh.

Oh, it was weird. - Totally. - But not a, not a, not a no way they could offend, really. Unless you're really short. - I guess, you can, in this movie.

- So we went, there's also had a questionable plot line in that film as well.

They'd become a kind of, yeah, she's amazing.

- Six, six, six, six, six, six, six. - Man of the year, I played on it all of them. In some ways, I think you're right that this is more of a, like what this is not what I was promised. In other ways, I do actually think,

I mean, it is, it is a romantic comedy. It's just a completely upside down one. - You're right, you're totally right. Do you think this is a big twist? 'Cause it's certainly, this is available to people out there.

And some people have had it spoiled for them.

“- Yeah. - I think the way that you set this up is right,”

which is the movie just does not really work as well. If you know what the twist is, and you didn't know, going in. I was, you know, going through the list of like all-time classic movie plots was, and almost all of these twists happen in the final 30 minutes

of the movie. And this one happens in the first 30 minutes. - Yeah. - And so this is a little different than your standard fare, but we haven't really talked about plot twists

in that much on the show over time. Well, do you have a favorite?

- I, you know, I'll always remember being

12, no, 15, and seeing six cents, and I made it to six cents without knowing what was going on. - Yeah, yeah, that's a brutal, but that was incredible. And I was also the right age. I mean, historically, I am not a very smart movie watcher

in that I will just kind of go along with it, and then give myself over and be surprised. But that one, I really, I obviously didn't know what was gonna happen. - Yeah, that really ruined the movie for me in some ways. You can go back and watch it and enjoy the film

in different ways now.

“The usual suspects, I think was the big key hole for me”

with the one where I was like, oh, you can do this in a movie. And I thought very cleverly showed us flashing images that had been presented throughout the movie as all the little clues summing up the Kaiser-Sosé revelation about Kevin Spacey's character for Vulcan.

You know, there's a couple of like all-time classics. A few all-time classics that we can talk about. There's Psycho and the idea of Mrs. Bates, Norman's mother actually being dead, and learning that Norman is in fact the killer.

You cited Casablanca, which I would not have thought

- Well, this is, you know, Victor Lasso as my husband

was, even when we knew each other in Paris, which is, like, I call this the Jane Eyre, but they're like in all romantic dramas, like the oops actually, I'm married. Yeah, there's a secret spouse somewhere else.

And this comes fairly really. - Planet of the Apes is one that was spoiled for me by attending cultural media. You know, if you just watched the Simpsons, you could have a lot of movie spoiled for you

as a kid growing up, but that one and also, I remember my dad saying, "Soyland Green" is people, which is the big revelation of the Charlton of the Charlton has some movie, "Soyland Green" from the '70s. But we've got a lot in recent years.

I've noticed that a lot of recent movie history is defined by, oh shit moments in movies. Old boy has a few of them, but the one particular that's the most upsetting is when we learn that day Sue has been tricking

to sleeping with his own daughter. - I like the deal. - No, not what you want. - No, part-time work. A little free, a rival.

I had not read that short story before I saw the film.

- Yeah, no, I had a. - And very devastating revelation at the end. If people haven't seen these movies, they're gonna be really mad at the, I hope you've turned the pot off by now,

we're talking about movie plot twist here. Crazy stupid love, a few Google movie plot twist. This is one of the most cited plot twists in recent movie times. Do you feel that this is a plot twist?

- What do we learn? Is it really just at the barbecue at the end?

“- I think yeah, I think it's more than an hour into the movie.”

- Okay. - That Ryan Gosling is in fact dating Steve Carrell's daughter. - The daughter is played by him a stone. And that this swath... - Do they learn that, but we don't know,

like we don't see Emma Stone talking to Steve Carrell beforehand. - I don't think it's what Sean's saying. I think it's closer to around the hour mark. It's not like right at the end of the movie.

- And then with the barbecue at the end is when they all find out, and they do exactly. - Exactly. - Okay, listen, whatever the younger generation needs. I like that movie.

I like it when they do the dirty dancing lift. - Yeah, it's a good film. - Yeah. - The prestige? - Yeah.

- There are twins. - Yep, you're just name in the mall off. - Sorry, if you haven't seen the prestige or old boy or a rival in crazy sports. - Sure.

- We're podcast to be listening to one and a half hours in. The others is one that I like quite a bit. Do you see that one? - That's a M8, shall I? - Nope, no, which one is that one?

- That's Alejandro and many of our Spanish filmmaker. Nicole Kidman is a star of this film. You haven't seen this film? - I'm wrong. Oh my God, don't even look at what I've written down,

“and you should, I don't want to spoil this for you.”

- Well, I already read it. Have I not seen this? - Oh, it's just a very good film. - Oh, no, I've seen this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen it.

I just didn't remember, yeah, of course. We did, 'cause we did Kidman Hall of Fame. - That's right. - That's right, that is the great twist. They're primal fear was one year after the usual suspects.

- Yeah. - And it's good, good for you, Marty. You know the revelation that Aaron Stampler is not a split personality, but it's a fact of sociopath and knowing murder. - There's a whole--

- It's also, though, primal fear then ruined a lot of crime fiction afterwards, because he's a sociopath, is or he's a psychopath, or she's a psychopath, is only a satisfying reveal once, you know? - Okay.

And it's only like, oh my gosh, in primal fear. And then the next time it's like, well, there's actually no rhyme or reason to what's happened here, because this person was just a psychopath.

- Okay, I didn't know that. I don't read a lot of contemporary fiction. - Yeah, I get mad when it's, you know, every writer doesn't want, you know, but when you're in the book and you realize like,

oh, this is the psychopath novel, that's just not very satisfying, yeah. - I don't think I quite realized that this was David Fincher's stock and trade purely for a period of time.

Seven doesn't have a twist so much as a shocking revelation at the end of it, but the game and fight club are both pure twist movies. And Gone Girl is also pure twist movie. - Yeah.

- And, I mean, it's not a book with a twist, but... - Yeah, of course. I mean, so is fight club. The game and fight club, we don't learn the twist until the very end of the movie.

But Gone Girl, we learn, is it less than an hour

“into the movie that we learn that this is all a scheme?”

- Yeah, or maybe the halfway mark. I mean, it's kind of bifurcated. The first half is Affleck and then the second half is, I don't remember her name Rosman Pike. Amy, amazing Amy.

- Yes. - The cool girl. - The crying game? - Yeah. - How do you think that's aging?

- Really, really great, I'm sure.

- Yeah, I haven't seen it, I've never seen the movie.

- I remember my parents talking about this. - It was a flash point from movie discussion. There are a great many examples of this in horror movies over the years that have shocking revelations. I just wrote down a handful that popped into my mind

as I was thinking about them last night. But saw is one, there've been 10 saw movies now

you know, not taking very seriously,

but the first saw was shocking.

I think the first saw played Sundance as an independent horror release from James Wan and was shocking to people. The mist was an adaptation of a Stephen King story, but that has a crazy twist in the film adaptation.

Sleepaway camp, that's another wild one, orphan cabin in the woods. Have you seen 10 clover field lane? Do you know about that one? - That's not the average.

- No, it's the second clover field map. - Yeah, no. - Mary Elizabeth Winstead and John Goodman. - They're gonna spoil it for me now. - No, no, they're trapped in like a subterranean space

during what we think is possibly a post-apocalyptic moment, but we don't know. The John Goodman character is very paranoid. - Okay. Maybe schizophrenia?

“Check it out, I think it's really worth watching.”

- Okay. - I think it's darn good. - Barbarian? - Yeah? - You know what that is?

We spoke of this podcast, malignant. Another James Wan movie. Parasite? - It's a good one. It also comes about an hour in, right?

- Maybe a little, well, the third family revelation to me is the big twist of the movie. That's the like-- - In the basement. - Yes.

- And that amazing shot of the husband

coming up the stairs. - Yes. - Yeah, I maybe are right, that it's only, that it's like an hour, 15 or something. But then there's a while of,

because they banish her, and then they all work their way in, and then where they've all worked their way in, but I don't know, there's at least another 30 minutes when you know, so it's not the very end. - Yeah, you're right.

There's a lot of incidents after that. Do you want to speak about your personal trauma? - Sure, so it was recently at home, watching Return of the Jedi with my son, with both my children.

“You should hear, say, "Yo, biob, it's quite cute."”

And I'm sitting there, Zach's in the other room. And Knox, my older son out of nowhere goes, "Hey, mama, did you know that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's dad?" And that is true, and I did know it,

but what I knew is that my son had not seen Empire Strikes Back, because my husband decided to skip from, know, a from a new hope to return to the Jedi, because he thought Empire Strikes Back is too scary. And then I learned that my son, he told my son,

he was like, "Well, he needed to know for plot purposes. He needed to understand Return of the Jedi, he needs to know what happens, and Empire Strikes Back." So I told him, "I'm still so angry. I cannot believe this."

My son doesn't understand, my son thought that this Super Mario movie was about like a ship, guys, like he doesn't, he doesn't need to know, he can just watch the movie, and when the time is right, we'll show him Empire Strikes Back,

why are you ruining this perfect moment? - Really, really angry about it. - Let's do something that wouldn't happen in my household. - Oh, I didn't have anything to say about Zach, me the executive decision that we were going to go,

a new hope, and then Return of the Jedi. And I, you know, I understand the impulse.

“You have to, you have to let both parents parent, you know?”

So I was like, "I was like that, it's fine. I'm not going to get involved." But Knox says this out of nowhere, and I was like, "Who told you that? Like, how did you, were you on Wikipedia?"

He was like, "Dad, dad told me." - Yeah, that's just a very sad story. It's a very sad story about snatching wonder from the mind of a child. - He maintains that he did the right thing.

And then, now, I will say Empire Strikes Back is scary. And, you know, it was not an issue in our home, but I have heard many parents that I've talked to about this, especially 'cause when we were watching the Star Wars movies, I was telling a lot of parents,

like we were doing the Star Wars movies, and some were like, "Oh, it's great. This, this, this works, this doesn't work." And some were like, "We did a new hope "I tried to do Empire and they couldn't do it."

'Cause it was two intense. So I understand the motivation, the spoiling couldn't be me. That's not something I would do. - He stands by it. And then, as like a rejoinder,

he keeps throwing back the fact that I allegedly told Knox that it's a grown-up in the Mickey Mouse suit, which, first of all, I don't remember saying that. And I don't think that that's true. And second of all, I think that that is really different.

- You should tell him is a grown-up

that it's always Uncle Chris, that would be the way to make that.

Okay, I think. - And Zach thinks that is worse than spoiling Empire Strikes Back. I just, I couldn't disagree more. This is a fundamental issue in our marriage. - Well, you don't like his tough.

You know, and you got to learn the hard way that you're not gonna get things exactly the way that you want them all the time. You're learning it now as you parent Knox is learning it now as he has the magical wonder of the Empire Strikes Back.

taken from him, Kruly, one day he'll be able to come here

and do a podcast about how his father ruined his life. Now he can't ever have that, it's a real shame. - Yeah. - But that is among the greatest plots of all time. - That is.

- It's learning that Anakin's a hypocrite. I'll be curious to see if as Knox gets into the prequels if you guys allow him to see the prequels. If he develops the same affection and interest in Anakin as my daughter has,

“because I think Anakin might now be one of,”

if not her favorite characters, she really feels like he's misunderstood. And we watch a Rogue One the other day, which is really not for kids at all. But at the end of Rogue One, Darth Vader shows up.

- Yeah. - And he just wrecked shop, he's just he's got his red lightsaber and he's just going to town trying to get the map to the death star that leads into a new hope. That movie ends right where a new hope takes off.

And she was like kind of pumped that he was kicking ass, and killing rebel soldiers. So, you know, we understand these things differently. - Yeah. - When we were kids where Darth Vader was the ultimate

embodiment of evil. - But still it's kind of a sad kid. - That's, that's a millennial shit right there. - Yeah. - There's a historic patin' Oswald bit about that.

But when you watch the movies as a young person and you have all this context and backstory, it changes your definition of it. But you're so little to really understand. You had to take him from him.

- It's too bad. They see as Mickey Mouse. I told him that that was wrong, that it's really as Mickey Mouse.

“And he was like, and he has a tummy and everything.”

- So, good question. - Yeah, we all do. - Why does the Mandalorian wear a helmet? - It's a part of the ancient religion that he follows.

You always have to have your head covered, and that is a sign of respect.

- Okay. - I think that's right. I think we can completely wrong. - Okay. - You want it?

Well, maybe Easter would be a good time to talk about ancient religions. - Can we let you do that? - I would be happy to. - Yeah. - We know that you love to explain.

- I do. - I do. - Complicated things to this small children. - Well, it's one of my skills. - Okay.

- You know, I've been doing it around the show a few years. - But this is what happens when I let other people pair it. You know, is that Empire Strikes Back gets killed. - Yeah. - You know, you can trust me with all things Star Wars.

- Well, there's stuff very debatable, that's not, I may not be my true skill. I think that's it for us. - Okay. - How the meds doing?

Good, bad. - Oh, it could be better. - Okay. - It could be better. I just recorded in a,

- No, I know. - I know that I did this morning. - I saw that, but to be candid, won't listen to that, with all respect to Zach Low, who I also love and admire. - Okay.

- So I just want to listen why. - I don't have that kind of time, you know? - I see. - Okay, I'm watching, I'm doing the Meryl Streep tape, you know? - I know, me too.

- I'm really digging in. - So I just wanted to check it with you. - They're three and three. - Okay. - They are 29th in the league with runners in scoring position,

batting average wise. - Right, okay, that's not good. - That's my struggles. - Yeah. - But we're gonna bounce back.

- Okay. - It's gonna be okay. Next week on the show, speaking of statistics and data. - Yeah. - We're going back to 3500 or 35,

or patented movie star ranking and doing this for many years. I think this will be our fourth 35 under 35. - Wow. - Yeah, 'cause when we started it, I was 35. And I wanted to be eligible and you said no.

“- Well, that's what those days are long gone.”

- No, you're eligible for 35 over 35 now, but we're not doing that, we're doing 3500. I thought we were gonna be short on some names because we have had a lot of people graduate. But then I discovered a great many new names.

I haven't been at it since the last time we did it. So this would be a fun exercise. We haven't even started yet, we got it, we got it. - I know, well, we, you know, we had to do this. - Okay, cracking.

Um, thanks to Jack Sanders for us work on this episode. - Do we spoil any movies for you and for Lucas? - Um, not really, I don't know. - Okay, so. - Lucas?

- He's never seen crazy stupid love.

- Okay, well, so Ryan Gosling is friends with Steve Crowell and then dating his daughter and they don't know. I'm sorry. - Amazing play in movie, great play in movie. - Good call.

It's being a Lucas, thanks to Lucas for his support in this episode. And we'll be back Monday with this ranking, which I think will be received very well. - People are always kind, supportive, they listen.

I would say listening comprehension very high, among, among our audience. - They have respect, yeah. - And, um, a sophistication. - Mm-hmm.

- And they are committed to this project like we are. And I love them, yeah, see you next time.