2026 Finals Lessons, Giannis’s Next Stop, Brunson’s Apex, and Mike Brown’s Magic Touch With Doc Rivers

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Can't wait for that. All right, Doc Rivers, he came here for a game, or didn't come here. But we did a podcast together after game one. Had not talked to him since the finals. Just a lot of big historical stuff coming from that finals.

A lot of strategies stuff. We had to talk Janis on what we think's going to happen in the summer without different teams.

“Favorite players, refs all kinds of things from his last season”

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Alright, Doc Rivers is here in studio. We've never done this. Great. Look at this. Nice.

Just got posters. People you played with with the jam session? Yeah. I see Austin cover up here, which I was telling my son Austin mergers name after he played Michael.

Jim Burr. You, did you have a Nike poster? No. Yeah, I had a little poster. I had to get that, maybe I got a hunt that day.

I have to get that again. We have so much to talk about, but let's do finals,

'cause you never talked about that.

So, a big picture, levitating over every beat.

“Would you think, what was your big takeaway from that series?”

I wanted more of was the first take. It was interesting, Bill. I played for the nicks, and I played for the spurs. Right. I taught myself, going back and forth, I was a nick-longer,

so probably lean more that way. But I just wanted more basketball, and it got to the point. My son Spencer said it, 'cause he was cheering for the spurs, 'cause when he grew up, he was living in San Antonio. Right.

So, he's cheering for the spurs. And he says, 'I don't want any more basketball.' And I said, 'What?' He said, 'I can't take them doing the same thing every game.' Carry okay. Getting out to a league, losing the league.

Here comes Browns.

And he never comes down the stretch of the game.

Yeah. But let's take a snapshot of the whole series. There was a lot of interesting things that happened to me. Obviously, the winby turnover, the past. Right, too.

But I thought where the game and the series changes. After game three. After San Antonio. San Antonio. And Mike Brown walked into the media room and complained about fouls.

I thought it was a brilliant thing to do.

“I don't think that's why he was doing it, and maybe he was.”

But if you look from that point on how it was called against him, Bronson, like game five year 18 free throws, the comeback game, and I talked about this with you, where everybody missed in my opinion, and what didn't even talk about was Castle.

Got him foul trouble, right before the second quarter they had to take him out.

That's when Bronson got cooking. Yeah. That was four, two or three minutes into the third quarter. It was two minutes. Yeah.

So now he's off to floor again, comes back in and picks up his fifth. So Bronson, that hold 29 point stretch, did it without having to deal with Castle. And I thought that was huge for the next, and for Bronson. And then I felt like it affected Castle in game five. It did.

It did. Bad in game five. Yeah. And defensively, you know, all series against Oklahoma against everybody. You've been able to be physical and been up, and now he was thinking about it.

You could see he was worried about it. You look at those last two drives by Bronson, that they hadn't done that all series. Yeah. They weren't going to let them do it. They weren't going to let them just go down the line because they're more physical

on them. But they were concerned about fouls.

“Where I thought, you know, you always go, well, what could make it done?”

Listen, if I was coaching this first, I wouldn't have thought of this either at the

time because it wouldn't have been on my mind. We just want to gain. But if you watched the series, who was foul the most, Bronson or Windy? Windy? Yeah.

Probably Windy at least, even, but no one said anything about it, you know, and the difference was Windy was foul more off the ball. Every time he cut, every time he moved, I mean, they were, they were a forearm and then they were hit. Even the alleged flavor and foul that Windy really was just pushing down on Bronson.

Yeah. He was pushing down on him because Bronson was grabbing his jersey and he turned around. It was like, get off of me, you know, so it looked better than worse than what it really was. Right.

All right. So, but I really thought that's where that series changed. And then San Antonio's inability, we talked about this in game one, I think. And if he came down to a one minute game, the nits are going to win. Yeah, he didn't gain five, but when it got to 83, 83, it's like, yeah, this is that.

And nothing, San Antonio really could have done about it because the nits know exactly who they are. Yeah. The last five minutes of a game. They know exactly what they're running.

They know exactly who they're running it through with Bronson. They may change the guy who sets a pick, they usually put towns in the parking lot because now you just take in the center, guarding him outside the paint. I like that phrase. Yeah.

Yeah. And so now you're left. If you go, you're leaving a great three point shooter. Yeah. So, I thought every game in those five games, the last four or five minutes, it was this

veteran team that also had a closer. Yeah. Remember, he'd be Brown.

“I remember when I was first start coaching and I was one of the things he told me.”

He's like, if you don't have a closer thought, I don't care how good your team is. He said it's just like a company. Yeah. You don't have a closer in your company that can close the deal. You are going to lose the deal.

And that's what it felt like. Now. Well, ironically, the closer for San Antonio is Harper. Yeah. And they didn't.

Yeah. But they didn't want to admit he had, he probably wasn't 100% ready yet. Yeah. He wasn't ready for, even though they used them more. Again, five.

He had a couple big plates down this way. Got down to the layup. Yeah. Mr. Layup, though, but Fox has been a great closer. Yeah.

Fox has been in a top five of closures over the last four or five years. But he lost his confidence of, I don't know if he lost his, he definitely lost something.

I thought he lost his health at first and then the confidence second.

Yeah. So, it wasn't the explosiveness getting in the basket in the same way. And then that him getting in the basket, then allows him to do that little turnaround eight foot shot that he's great at. Well, y'all.

So, all plays off his shoulder. You didn't hear one time. Mike, brain, or legs, or any of them say Fox is the fastest guy in the NBA. That's something you hear. Right.

That's where it was two years ago. Yeah. You didn't hear one time. And, you know, maybe the, the spring ankle had some impact on him, definitely had on the shooting.

I thought what Mitch Ram was terrific, they got that shot, even in the game five. He came off that little, we we call it shake special, played an I run. It's a secondary, second pick and row. When B. D. H.O.s, the guard comes off, Fox got to his bread basket.

Right. And then he had to wide open three.

So, I never thought his shots were going in.

Well, when it mattered, which is a bad way to get to the point. Yeah. That's not going. Yeah. It really did get to that point.

Oh, gee, every shot I thought was going in. Yeah.

“Even if I think that part, it's still going in.”

Even the best shots. Yeah. You thought we're going in. It's amazing what a series can do. You know, but like for Mitch, what, that puts a coach in the tough spot.

You've had a, you had this closer. It has been reliable. He's been reliable for you. Yeah. And game seven, Noko Homa, he made every shot.

Right. So, you don't go away from it. You know, you keep going to it and, and, and, and give Mitch credit, he did, but it just kept coming up. They guys.

Right. I mean, over and over again, you know, and Wibbi is going to learn a lot. You know, you learn a lot from this series. Someone was was talking to a different strain him and Jabar. And I said, well, Jabar was still in college at that age.

Right. And then we'll see. Yeah. And Wibbi's in the game seven of NBA finals. So let's give him a great spirit.

I do think it's a real issue that he can't sit into play more than 30 minutes. Well, I think he's he's like staggering around in this game. Well, he's got 40 plus, but I think it's a league problem as much as a, a Wimbi problem. I think what the league does more is we give these minutes all year, but out the thought of ramping guys up as the playoffs gets closer and closer.

Um, you know, who did do that was tips, tips ramped up from the start. And by the way, it may be, I had a good email from a mail back pot of the other day about tips kind of conditioned these guys to go these big minutes and carry this big love. Yeah.

It's not it wasn't something that they didn't expect. Yeah. Didn't want, let me say this, players want to play, right. Players don't actually want to sit, players are told to sit and then they are now in this culture where they accept what the trainers are telling them.

I came from the culture, you wouldn't listen to the trainer, you know, we told the trainer like if the, if I came to a game and Joel, too, was my trainer with the Atlanta Hawks. Yeah.

“Joel said, "Hey, Doc, I think you should sit.”

I would sit. Get out of here." Right. And that was it. That was the conversation.

There was no more. But think about how much you were making in the Hawks compared to what these guys make now. Yeah.

Fifty million dollars in the Hawks.

Look at me walking. Look at me walking. Look at me walking. Look at me walking. See if you should have listened to Joel.

I should have listened to Joel more. That's a fact. I do think they're more careful because not only are they paying a ton of money for the best players, but if something goes wrong with one of the best players, you almost, you don't have an out.

Like, look at you with the honest issue. Yeah. But you don't go. And you're seasoned, singlehandedly that. Well, that's because we didn't have a second guy.

Right. You know? But most teams don't. Yeah. You know, if Brunson went out, they still have towns and other guys, you know.

Yeah. But you're not going to win it. No. Yeah. You're not going to win it.

If your best guy is out of the playoffs, you may make a run. We made a run in, you know, a nine, but you're not winning it.

And where it always comes up when you have a guy out, is that game one to five if you

can get there? It's game six and seven, right? Those are the games that are almost unwinnable for you. What happened to Oklahoma City? Yeah.

Because they didn't have that extra guy. It was obvious. Yeah. Yeah. So, the Wemby part of this, so you think, like, he doesn't have the signature

shot yet. That's yet. He's now. I love the shot. He missed in game two.

Which one? The one at the elbow. That was a pick and row pop right to the elbow. That's his, that's his breath. Yeah.

One of like, what are his spots going to be? Yeah. That's what will be one for sure. Yeah. Like, top of the foul line.

Because it seems like he has a lot of trouble getting into the block. Like, Greenwood, he would do that weird thing where he would kind of back in and take these little weird steps and all of a sudden he was in his spot. What can we do? That's what it's about.

And then the jump hook. I mean, the guy who no one's ever going to have that shot, if Wemby can develop a sky hook, the game's over for everybody. Oh, how about can we get a jump hook? Yeah.

I mean, everybody in the league has a jump hook. So, I, I was on the phone with about four or five coaches. Yeah. They before yesterday. And we were just talking about the game.

Right. And what would each guy do with Wemby? One of the guys said, did that worry about how much the back to the basket?

“The only thing with back to the basket is, yeah, we'll throw it to you and they're going”

to trap you. And then you have to give it up. Yeah. And he said, no one is talking about Jack Sigma. And he's like, what if Wemby just stays Sigma, what if he face you?

Well, that was the old Tim Duncan, yeah, just face you up here from the basket and just shoot it. Like on the post, turn face, shoot it if they come up on you, put it on the floor.

“You know, I think that's a movie we'll have to develop.”

I remember sitting with pop and watching Wemby practice is rookie here because I was one TV. And there's two months here for those two months. You know, I actually said it and it pops like, thank you. Think I said, why is he fading?

Well, that was the little Chamberlain problem. Yeah, just go up and shoot. Right. No, why are you going back? Yeah, no one's going to block your shot.

And also he's a great free for shoot. Right. So that's the difference. He can really shoot the ball and it's a balance issue at times for them. You can see he's off balance a lot.

You know, that may be strength, that may be balance. And fatigue. And fatigue. Yeah. So KG had, he had the little turnaround near the baseline.

But then I always liked when he faced up and he would do like the stutter step.

The comment. Yeah. And he counters to everything. Yeah. Wemby, Wemby did that.

It's a great guide for Wemby to work with. They have the same type of intensity. Right. Yeah. He's like a much taller Wemby.

Yeah. KG's workouts are amazing.

“I mean, you should put these shoes on the floor, which has a coat.”

I had never seen. Yeah. We used cones. We put two shoes and make them face like the player, because he said I want to attack the feet.

So he would just, he would stand there and he moved the shoes over and attack that. Then he put the two shoes over and attack that. It was genius.

So he would always look at the feet over and anything else.

Yeah. He wanted to attack the feet. Interesting. He would teach guys. He saw one foot just turned, says dead.

He's dead. He knew exactly what he was going to attack. So it's pretty impressive. I remember there was the Dave Debusher thing where he always looked at the guys. And he would, he said everybody who is about to shoot looks at the rim no matter what they're

doing. Eventually they're going to look at the rim. Well, they have to. And that's what I know. And he was like the only guy who never did it was a Roman row.

All of a sudden he was shooting and he was like, you were looking over there. How did you? That's why he impressed it. But he said that was the only one that he was like, I always followed the eyes. That's why he was so good defensively.

So KG's looking at the feet. He just looked, he's got the ball looking at the squares up and he looks at your feet. Even if when he had the Tim Duncan face up, KG kind of started step stop and he's shooting over you. And then just like a seven foot jump hook.

Yeah, but two more shots and he has now. Yeah, just the face up to me is because you can't double team him. He sees you coming. He will pick you apart, you know. And I think that's one thing they'll do and then more work at the elbows because I thought

he was very efficient there most of the season. And it just seemed like they got away from him. But I felt the physicality and the fatigue played a major factor. Yeah. They were doing a bunch of stuff with him too, like on box outs that were like ram and

him in the back.

“They hit him every chance they got you have to.”

Yeah. They did that Oklahoma didn't do. They attack Wimby. Yeah. Yeah.

All three of the playoffs knew when attacked Wimby. They played away from Wimby. The next we're going to write at you. We're going to attack you. We're going to make you follow us.

We're going to make you move your feet. But I thought that was a great game play. And it felt like Brunson kind of figured him out as the series went a little bit because he really touched him. It's pretty tough when you look at Brunson versus Wimby and Brunson.

It's like 18 inch different. Brunson is figuring anything out. Right. Yeah. It's unbelievable.

Brunson, I tell you man, every time you watch him, you get more and more impressed with him. I think you still watch him waiting for him not to be able to do what he does. Yeah. I think the whole league for two years, or he can't keep doing this.

He can't. And he can. It's who he is. He's almost feel like he's like a he check guy. Yeah.

All game. Yeah. I just want to keep going. Yeah. The 45.

I mean, he scored half the team's points. Like he will a game for the New York next in the World Championship. Yeah. So I did a part on Monday. And I was eating on my book a basketball where I ranked everybody and the big thing for

the rankings was we the best guy in a title team. Did you read the alpha, did you take a, take a team to the promise land, which I just think is a different level of basketball. It is. So I had, I put Brunson, I put him a bunch, I changed my list and I put him 41 and I put

him a head of guys like Nash and kid and Luca and I'm like, this is the whole point of basketball is to be the best guy in a title team and to do this stuff that he did and game one of the Cleveland series throughout the finals, especially game five, which I think is in the running for one of the best finals games played this century. Yeah.

So I, you know, he's never been a first come on be a guy.

But I feel like he has to be treated that way.

You know, I didn't perform. I go from second team. Yeah, they don't believe even though his team's record is great, he keeps doing the same thing. About 29 points of game and four playoffs now.

Yeah. This is a four year stretch where those are chase stats, so there's a Kobe stats over everybody. Other than Michael, all the other great player stats, the other thing I keep saying it, and I'm going to say it until the calls, you know, whatever the come in or whatever they're supposed to do, we don't evaluate what a great player is right in my opinion.

I was so excited to talk to you about this because winning and leading is part of that. If you can't do that, it really all you're doing is playing your game and you're putting up stats. Yes, you know, I got to play my game. Well, winners play their game and they give room for everybody else on their team to play

their game and they encourage. They do all the things that are required, right, more than just score 30 points. You know, they Lee, they push, you know, Michael, push, he pushed his teammates, but he also trusted, you know, two of the games, two of the series they won came off on Michael Jordan Bass.

You know, he was willing to make the right play. He was 11 assists the game in the 91 final. Exactly. So it was willing to make the right play at the right time and Brunston led their team to an NBA title.

He didn't just play his team to an NBA title. And that's part of the problem. And I was really interested to see how people would react when I was like, this is where Brunston is now. Yeah.

This is my system. I did this when Duane Wade won a 06 when Walton won a 77 like if you do this once, that's more important than what you did for 15 years if you, you know, you made some conference finals. And that's it.

The biggest, the whole point of playing basketball because basketball's not boxing. It's a team game. Yeah.

“And you have to win to be considered a great player.”

Well, think about there were Paul Pierce would owe eight mentally. Yeah. They're speeding up on straight up and all.

There are some guys that never had talent around them.

It's a small pool. Well, I always use Barkley as the example. Right. To me, I don't hold no title against Barkley because I feel like in 93, he was, he went against the best part of all time at the peak of his power.

Yeah. And he never had talent around him until they got to Phoenix. Right. Kevin Johnson let him down the first half of that fight. And he had a chance, but they, no offense, they're plenty of bulls when in that series.

In any way, a form, they were just not, you know, the bulls were the better team. I thought the nicks were the better team that year really, you want me to be honest. But I was on the nicks and yeah, that still bothers me, you know, that lost at a bulls. We're up to all. And then.

Jordan put the double neck on you and game three, right, or game four, when the game three, the media.

“And I, I don't know if we've talked about the game three, what happened with the media?”

It was, I want to say a three or four day break. Yeah. Between game two and three, which allowed them to kind of capture themselves a little bit. The more importantly, the media beat up Jordan every day because they saw that he was at a casino.

Right. Four days, or three days, whatever it was, Michael Jordan is sitting at home, hearing that he let his team down. And if he care anymore, or what's wrong with his other gambling, you know, and, yeah, Jordan happened from that point on.

I think one of the toughest things with the value in that. So I look at that next time.

And it basically comes down to that the Charles Smith sequence, right?

Yeah. And you could blame. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

“Maybe you should have had a slightly better part than Charles Smith.”

Like, et cetera, et cetera. Or you go the other way and go. This is why the bulls are so great. They protected the rim. And they had no center out there.

And those guys were so great in the moment. That's what made that team. So that's the difference. Yeah. It's not that Charles Smith missed the three labs.

I lost BJ. I'm strong late in the game and he got a three. You know, it's a play. We worked on all the time that you had to, you know, block out, but not get sealed. And I had the block out.

I think it was Horace Grant. And as I was blocking him out, I got too low. And now he seals me in that I couldn't get back on the ball swing and BJ makes a three. I think we missed two technical foul free throws in that game.

I always took the, I was the best free throw shooter on the team.

I think I played. I'm going to go look now that I'm thinking about it. I think I played 38 minutes, 37 minutes. Both Tex were in the time and I was out of the game.

So it was all like it was like 10 little tiny things. Yes, always. And Michael Jordan.

“But at the end of the day, who's our second best player?”

Yeah. I'm that sure.

Starks was by the way he played, but he wasn't really the second best player every

night. We're, you know, they had Pippin. You know, it was clear with their second best. Yeah. So when you make that case is hard to say that you would have won.

But I think we would have we had a chance. I mean, San Antonio was a little like that, too, right? Yeah. Who is their second best player? What was Fox all year?

But it might have been Harper by the time I got the title. My game seven by game. Game five. Game three. It was Fox.

Yeah. Something with Fox. I mean, it was Harper. Something with Harper that he been making a stake and come out and go back in. So, you know, there's a disorder added.

You don't know what player until you coach a player. There's something that he was doing that made him come out at times. And I couldn't figure it out. Interesting. Yeah.

So he was a 20 year old point guard. Yeah. That's part of it. You were a point guard. Yeah.

And he's like me, too, because a hundred times better than me. Yeah. But I wasn't a point guard in college. Yeah. I just led the team in assist.

Yeah.

“And then when I got drafted, I remember my first conversation with Mike Fatelli.”

So you're going to be the point guard or the line of all. And I'm like, OK. I figured out. Yeah. Then it's chance.

Oh, exactly.

But if we didn't have in the 80s, we'd never.

Some traditional point cards like the way people think of them. Well, like guys who bring up the ball. I didn't. Well, then you would have the Isaiah John Lucas. But he was a pure point guard.

Yeah. So yeah, I think Harper is that. And probably didn't execute things properly all the time. You know, but he'll learn all that. I mean, he is special.

He's a special basketball player. And he will be their second best player. Like I was trying to think of him in the context of. When like Kate came into the league or Chris Paul. Yeah.

Like that where you knew right away. I feel like that with him. Yeah. Harper. Yeah.

But they're completely different. And Harper's a score. Yeah. He's a scoring point. He reminded me more of Rock Strickland.

What is finishing. Who? I mean, he can. Harper finishes that angles. You know, I think it was getting five.

The one where he was under the basket. The reverse. Yeah. Come on.

“I couldn't have made that in the gym by myself.”

Right. I could have tried that shot 10 times. I'm missing it all 10 times. He's doing it in the NBA finals with ease. You know, it was amazing.

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See, talk about the little differences between teams.

So I went to the bird Dominic game, which you were great in. You got a standing-up when you fell down. Yeah, that was cool. That's the creative idea. That was a breaking point for me with Boston. You were like, I like these people.

Yeah, I hate it, Boston. Yeah, when I was... We appreciated it. And that changed my entire mindset of Boston. I love these people. These people were pretty cool.

Well, so Dominic at one point, he's number two in MVP. Yeah. He's one of the five or six best players in the league for five years.

“And that's like his moment to either a send or not a send, right?”

And birds, like just a whiff better than him. Yeah. Partly because Dominic, I wouldn't say, was the strongest defender. Right. And you didn't have that. Maybe if you're doing it now, there's a strong different guy's at bird. We call this, he was an occasionally great defender.

You know, they're sporadic. Yeah. I remember, uh, for tellin' saying that occasionally Dominic is the greatest defender in the league. Right. We just need that to be more. Well, but I think... But he has a score.

But he's a, well, that's the thing. He's carrying a lot of offensively and he comes. And that's the closest he ever comes, right? And then you go back to the lakeers, who wouldn't have taken worthy over him. Yeah. And worthy ends up in all these games and he's a big game James.

And he has the big game 7 and 88. And Dominic's on this other team where he has a much bigger bird. And if you flip them, you don't know. You don't know, but I... Yeah.

I mean, that choice of a greatie made that comment. If I was on the lakeers, I would've, and I said, no. You just don't know. But think about Dominic on the showtime lakeers. Yeah.

It might have been like pretty spectacular. It would have been fun for sure. But he also wouldn't have been able to guard bird in the finals. I don't know what you mean. But it's been interesting.

I love doing that.

“Like, if such and such was here, would he had won as much or won less or won more?”

Yeah. I think it's hard to say. Like Tom Chambers is another one. Yes. Who is really good?

It's like, if he had just been on the lakeers instead of worthy, would we be talking about him reverentially as one of the best forwards in the world? The reason magic, I struggle to take a magic out of the top five of all time. He's fifth for me. Yeah.

Because of not what he did is his presence. He made. I mean, he resurrected. Cream of dual to bars career. And his love for basketball.

Yeah. He going from the lakeers or losing games, not playing well.

I don't know if you remember their first games against the clippers.

Yeah. The hug game. And the hug game. Yeah. I mean, I think that changed Jibar's second half of its life basketball was.

And it was huge. I forget who said this to my podcast. I'm going to say it was Nick Wright, but I'm not positive. It was recent. Certain players love playing basketball because they love playing basketball.

And then certain players play because they absolutely love winning. And want to win all the time. And magic was one of the few who was both at the same time. Yeah. You love basketball.

But he also really, really loved winning. Yeah. I don't know. It was fun to win magic. Going into my rookie year.

They said have that darn storming tour and making. Right. And I was included in that. Yeah. We would go and sell out like in the, in the Lansing.

And then after the game. And then I'm being honest, the gate. They would bring the gate in the cash. And Charles Tucker, which. They think on father.

It'd be 10 for magic. Five for Isaiah $1 for dog. You know. And it was, it was unbelievable. Yeah.

But I remember going to magic's house. It was sitting there. Magic was out. I want to say is playing marker choir tennis in the backyard. And I'm just sitting at the table.

I say it was playing marker choir in tennis. No. No magic was magic was playing marker. Magic had a tennis court in the back of his house.

And we're just, you know, we're not watching the game.

We're sitting in the house. You know, drinking cool. Either whatever you're just hanging out. You know, some magic busted door open. It throws a racket across the room and just walks and leaves.

And I'm like, what the, what the. It's going on here. And he lost. He lost the bar. He lost the tennis match.

And I want to say where we're supposed to go that night. He didn't want to go. I mean, he, I was like, who? This guy didn't like losing. What's that KG was like that when I had the practices.

Oh, yeah. KG, you know what's great about KG. He loved the competition in practice. But he also loved when the other team was into it. You know, the first practice we had.

We lost the starters loss. And the whole bus ride. You know, we were in Rome. Yeah. The whole bus ride.

Eddie House, Tonya, they're giving it to him. Just giving it to him. And campus like, all right. Yeah. Okay.

That next day.

It was, it was incredible.

The energy that he brought to that practice. That one of the days I told tips was like. Where are going to be hard to beat? What speaking of tips? They just win the title that you're after he gets fired.

Yeah. That stuff.

“Do you take that as a positive or a negative if your tips?”

Because I don't. I got a great email a couple days ago from a listener who's like. Tips conditioned these guys in a lot of different ways. And like. You should get some credit.

The offensively. You know, they didn't vary from that sense. The system. Brendan O'Connor was my assistant coach. Yeah.

In Boston. And with the clippers. It's who Mike Brown hired as his defensive coach this year. And that's. We're all from the the.

Dick Carter system of defense. So he brought that to the next. It was already kind of in. You know, a lot of changes, but you know, it was pretty cool. Haven't said that, Bill, you're a human.

All right. And if I was fired. And then team. One of the world championship the following year. I get.

I would know deep down that I really helped that team. But I wouldn't feel that way as you're. Yes. And I think tips was very happy for a lot of their guys. Yeah.

Probably not all of them. For a lot of their guys. But it also it hurts you, too. It's just human man. We forget that we're all humans.

And that would hurt that would hurt a little bit. Sure. Where would you put J. L. Branson again? So like I say and some of the other. Oh, that's awesome.

Some of the other tough little guys. We had that. Well, I think. You know, and that nothing against Chris. I think you would just put it him against all the guys who have won titles.

Yeah. I think you would have to shorten that list. That's good. It's a bunch shorter list. That's basically a Tony Parker. That's exactly right.

“Yeah, that's that's that's who you have to put them against.”

You know, because he powered them. You say Gus Williams. Good call. Yeah, Gus Williams. I apologize to him on my Monday podcast because I forgot to mention him in the great small

guards because he always gets left out.

Well, he was the best guy. And then that's the 9 Sonic. Who's who's? Who's the never one in title without Russell. Yeah.

That's true. And Russell was the best player on the team. Yeah. Yeah, good point. Because he was close, close, close.

Russell showed up. Lot easier in Russell. So I would start with that list. Yeah. First, and then you can go back to the other guards because Bronson was so much different.

Like all the small guards would have really struggled guard Bronson. That you, I mean, all of them. Now, he would have struggled guard him as well. Because one of the things, so I did my thing yesterday. And I had him ahead of Luca all time.

Right out of Laker fan who was like. That's insane. It's like Luca's. Luca's 33 and 9 and I'm like. Yeah, but the whole point of ask was winning the title.

Luca was in a similar situation in the 24 finals right against Boston. They're down to 0 game three. And then he has that whole thing where he kind of kind of implodes and fouls out. And then tells him to challenge it.

“And if that's part of it, Bill, like, do you have the makeup to win?”

That's what I'm talking about. I was like missing if you saw your tell him if you switched Luca and Bronson. The next, though, when the title of Luca or you discounting all the other stuff, Bronson did for that. No, the fact that he got better with the matter all the time.

I would say no, they wouldn't. At least from what I've seen so far. Yeah, I love Luca. Right. He's just not there yet.

Not yet. And, you know, health, conditioning. Can Luca sustain that type of intensity for that long. I don't know if he could have couldn't, but I know Bronson could. And there's something about whatever Bronson did with that team.

That the guys around him were the best versions of themselves, which I think is, should count as a trait for basketball players. That's what he was great at. It's what Casey Jones told me that we're sitting around in my office one day.

He always left for him. That's what he said. He's like, he knew for him to be great. He had to give everybody else enough room to be great as well. Uh, what you keep hearing it so often by players.

You know, I got to play my game. I, you know, they let me play my game. Okay, we will. But that means he can't play his game. If you're going to be dribbling of all or he can't play his game.

And so I'll let you play your game, but we're going to lose. Right. Or can you play your game and allow him to play his game? And him to play his game and your team win?

“Because if you can't do that, if you think the only way you can win,”

it's just what you with the ball in your hand every possession. You have a lot of people think that. But it hasn't happened. It's in the history of the game. Right.

It's never happened.

And it's never happened in the history of basketball that a guy,

every time down, just dribbled dribbled dribbled dribbled dribbled dribbled dribbled dribbled. Uh, either shot or passed it. No one's ever won that way. So, I mean, I love history. Right.

And even when Justin was playing that way. Yeah. It was more because he kind of had to for like nine straight minutes or they weren't going to score. But they also moved the ball.

They advanced the ball. They got it back to it. Right. And then fast break points. But down the stretch, they went to that.

Yeah. Other parts they went away from that. What they did a great job of. They knew when it was too much. And what Mike did so well this year is he instilled the ball movement,

you know, playing through towns, even without towns, just moving the ball. Where in the past they hadn't done that. It just stayed in Brunson's hand. It's almost like they had a little barometer. Uh-oh.

Too much. And they got away from it. And then they would go back to it. So I thought that was the difference. The other thing with Mike Brown.

Uh, he used the hell of his bitch. Right. Uh, he really did.

I thought, uh, I thought Mike Brown coach's an amazing series.

Even his challenges really. Yeah. Well, the next have the best challenge system in NBA. It's one game. The challenges.

It's funny though, Bill. People think it's the coach. Yeah. That coach has very little bit to do. Some dude that he trust completely on the back.

Uh, and the next, I think two or three years in a row have led them be in challenges. Uh, it's, it's a weapon. Right. And they're good at it. They're quick.

You know, I remember we played them last year. And I was like, did they have a quicker computer? I mean, what the hell's going on with the guy actually also understood. You have to understand the rules.

“You have to understand the rules to be a good challenger.”

Uh, was that a file before the play? Uh, why use your time out now? Uh, you know, is this a right time, even if you're right? Uh, they had one in game one or two. Well, they were right.

They knew it. But they didn't challenge because they already had one challenge that they won. And they were like, no.

This is in the perfect time for us to use the second one.

If we use the second one now, we're done. Right. And they end up using it in a third or fourth quarter where it came back to really help them. So, yeah, they're really good at it. But what else might did was that bench, man?

Well, to do what he did without towns, basically playing half the game. And just figuring out how to patch together. Nine towns a minute so that they could hang around. And impressive. He had the courage.

He had more court courage than I did as a coach in bigger games. Like, what do you mean? Well, he was putting in guys that he hadn't played. You know, if that was something you just wouldn't do. Not, not unless the guy has proven it all year, you know.

But, you know, he puts in different guys. You know, he went away from Duce. Duce? He should have. Duce in the finals could make a shot.

So then he goes to sham. I think that one then he goes to court. Yeah. Huck 40 out of nowhere. Yeah.

And then he goes to Clarkson. Yeah. Right. Clarkson and Blake throughout the series. Yeah.

Game for the comeback. He stays with. I've a Ronald. Yeah. You know, now I did that.

“You remember we won the one game where I didn't bring in Paul or none of the big three.”

It was a big baby Nate Robinson. Oh, it's a nice. Yeah. Yeah. In that group.

Yeah. We won. I think it was a final game, maybe. With that group on the floor. But I had played them all year.

Yeah. So I did have more confidence in them. But he had gone away from Clarkson all year. You know, it's funny. He did put him in in the NBA Cup game if you remember.

Yeah. He had used them in Clarkson came in and played great. But even in that game, the Cup game, against the spurs. Tyler Cole, he put him in and he played great. So I loved him.

Mike kept trusting everybody. I thought that was really impressive.

He got fired three times four times. Yeah. Totally recently in Sacramento. It's got coachy. Right.

And then. Meanwhile, all the other coaches like Mike Brown's a really good coach. Yeah. And then finally he's in the right. Yeah.

Now it's like, I've always been in emotions and restaurants.

Yeah. You can't. You'll never have to pay for another meal.

“Did that happen to you after 08 when you're walking in your restaurant?”

My God. And Boston still does. You know. If they had a clip he walked into the polo lounge in New York. Yeah.

If it just started standing up, I'm doing this. Yeah. But right out there, I remember us walking in. Me and Sam could say, oh, and it was a little uncomfortable. Yeah.

You know, walking in restaurant and people stand up and try to pay. You had no chance of thing. I did like that. I'm known for being a little tight. So I absolutely love that part.

Yeah. Yeah. Because the sun's for 22 years. This was 53. Yeah.

But it had a little bit of the same stuff of like, you know, a lot of losing. A lot of like, I remember back when we were good. Yeah. Now we're not. Yeah.

And you know, Boston's fans now have gone through so much winning. You know, when I when I. Now we get upset when we're about the last one. I got the boss and the red socks had one in a thousand years. Yeah.

He said one, the Bruins had one, the Celtics had one. Didn't all of a sudden we're all winning. Yeah.

And I always think back to man.

There's a kid this seven years old. It thinks this is how it is. Right. That's selling from the Celtics. Yeah.

Yes. Suns all day. They were born. Right. Wait room Brady showed up.

They were. Yeah. They were born at the perfect time in Boston. They think winning is like they're entitled to win. Yeah.

13 titles. Yeah. I don't know. I have for many years. I was one thing I'm present.

So I was arguing with the look of. Look of friend of mine and we start talking about hard and second right. You know, I know you don't like hard and there's just no way hard and was. Worst and Brunson like you have hard and has to be a but Brunson. I'm like, all right.

You make the case. So it makes the case since like you when the MVP, you know, is 36 points. Again, we're like, I've been back for about it. And I was like, all right, I hear everything. You mean you're best hard in your 2018, it's like 2018.

All right, take 2018 hard and put it on this next team. Do you think they win the title? And he goes, well, but that's. And I was like, that's your answer. That's your answer.

“That's why Brunson has to be a head of hard.”

That is the answer. You just already started stammering and making excuses. Yeah. It's the answer that we should all go by. Right.

You know, there's a lot of players, you know, James. Is a phenomenal player. I think I have 50. I still think the best part of his game. He doesn't like as much as I love the point I put.

Yeah. I think I think he has as good a vision as anybody that I've seen next to Rondo and Chris. Yeah. And but he can score two and he liked to drive away. Like to hold the ball.

See, James says to give everybody else enough room to be great. Yeah. He is the only one that can be great on this scene. You know, it was to be the greatest. Yeah.

I don't even think it's a jealousy thing. I really don't. I just think it's the way he plays and that's how he plays. You know, as he said, he's a system. You know, but that system to me is not the way to win.

You know, I still go back. You look with James with us in Philly.

The first half of the year.

Yeah. He gave himself up to the team. He was playing unbelievable basketball. And I thought there was nobody better than this. Yeah.

And then it kind of changed. He wanted to go back. You can see it slowly. Like he was uncomfortable in that row. One of the things I did like about that sucker though.

He practiced every day. Yeah. It's funny how people don't look at him like that. James Harden loves playing basketball. And he's durable.

Very. I don't die. You're going to need a guy to practice every day. And he's going to play eighty eights. Like there's something good about that.

The bad part is can you win with it. The other thing I've been talking to people about is the ten week play out for him. And being durable and actually getting better as those ten weeks gets along versus going the other way.

“I think one piece of decent example this, but he's twenty two.”

But I care every team does that. And every player. What you want is that grind is so hard. And you gotta keep climbing the rungs. And some guys can't do it.

And even LeBron, 2011. Yeah. By the time we got to the finals against Dallas, like he cratered. Yeah. You need to learn how to win.

He had to learn how to win. He hadn't figured it out yet. I thought LeBron's growth where he became one of the best all time. It was between the 11 and 12. Yeah.

Yeah.

But I remember we played them in a game.

Maybe a preseason game. And he was calling out the sets.

“And I remember turning to, I think it was Lawrence Frank.”

You're like, oh, this is different. Yeah. He didn't prepare it before like that. He came out and played. But he was 21 over here.

He's going, I was like, wow. Now that's different. And when he started doing that. The other thing I thought Miami, you know, Kevin Gardenett, them loved it. I showed a video before game one.

The two. It was before game one. We played, you know, 2012. Yeah. They were the, you know, the big favorites.

You know, we were old. And I showed a video of the Wayne way Chris Bosch and the Bron. Before the game doing there. But they can't shake things out of the game. They would do it.

And I said, those three guys can that not beat us. 12 guys. And until they figure out, they're going to need those other nine guys. We got these guys. They can't beat us.

You know what you weren't counting on? Being up about to go up three, two and game five. And all your guys talking so much shit to the Bron. He finally said, right, fuck. It's not working all the time.

Bad trash talk story. Oh my God. Well, he probably changed the course of the Bron's career. Yeah. Actually, I do think if we had won that series somehow, they were about to break them up.

Because they had lost a year before Chris Bosch was gone. They were these trade crisps. Yeah. Somebody was gone.

“I think the way about the 2016 calves, if they lose to go and stay.”

Kevin loves it. Yeah. That's amazing. It's amazing.

It's amazing how bounce or something.

Right. You know what was your Jeff and Gunney? I think it's the next one coach. Right. But Jeff and Gunney was about to get fired with the next.

And Alan Houston takes a shot. Oh, and that was bounce bounce bounce bounce on the ramp and goes that way. Right. The ball goes this way. Jeff and Gunney fired.

The box. If Kevin Derence's foot was back this much, they were going to fire but. Well, I think the 2014 quippers is a good one if team. Yes. Because you have sterling happening.

Yeah. Which is still one of the craziest. That was nice. Things that teams ever had to deal with the playoffs. And then just Chris Paul.

The safest bet on the planet just having a complete meltdown in the last minute of game four. Game five. Game five. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, it's funny. I thought I don't know if we would have won it for not because when you look back. And that's where some of the players could mad at me when I said when you looked back on our team. We didn't get along the way we were supposed to win. And so if that's if you didn't have great chemistry.

It's hard to win. But that year, I thought we kind of had it. Yeah. Blake and Chris kind of whatever their stuff was. And that happened before I got there.

They kind of moved it to the side. There was so many mistakes and Chris was literally Chris is the smartest. Right. Player that I coached in my career.

“You know, I think Ronald's the smartest.”

Plus I've never made mistakes.

Yeah. It's just turned over. Never turned it over. But we're supposed to file out of the time out. His guy got it.

He didn't file. He tried to trick the game. That was the one thing that me and him but he had to about all the time. You'll need to trick the game. Yeah.

Yeah. And honestly, he did get filed. Yeah. But they didn't go. Right.

And so Oklahoma gets it and they come back in scores. I was like. You know. He runs and got filed for 10 seconds left and they didn't call. I didn't call.

I went to bridges. Yeah. So that was almost the disaster. It was going to be a disaster. So that's, you know.

But man, that changed the fortune of the clippers. That that one game really did. We had that one. We've talked about this before in pods, but the ones that you almost could have won. And two bad things happen are the way worse than winning.

Well, I've had the winning is here in the losses. Yeah. The winning is always. If you win it all, there's nothing that's ever going to be that except for mentally. You lost his hurt more.

Right. You think more about the losses than. And I talked about two 10 way more than two eight. I mean, I don't remember that. Oh, eight.

That was great. That's that's what coaches. I mean, I had the three one lead against the Troy where we were. We weren't supposed to be in that series. If you ever go back and look at our the magic team.

Yeah. And then Tracy, my greatest stands of this series is over. Right. You know, I didn't know he said that, but that's he said it in the media. Nobody should ever say that.

Never. And then think about this. Well, I got fired because of that series because Joe Doomers.

And he didn't play them all year. And then game four, he put him in at the end of the game. And he was phenomenal by game seven. He was there. Go to God.

I mean, it was crazy. Yeah.

“And I really believe that's what got required.”

Jesus. Yeah. We were talking on a previous podcast about these teams that got the secret, which, like, the O4 prison is a good example. Yeah.

This next team, the 14 spurs. Now, there's other, like, the O8 Celtics were so talented. It's almost like the talent. It was more the play. We played together.

Right. So when do you know that it happens as a coach? Is there a moment there in the season or playoffs? And with the next state, it was the last 16 games. But that's how it happens most at the time.

Like, we were not ready to win when the playoffs are. Yeah. People think we were, we went seven games against the hall. The first two teams. Yeah.

And the second series was Cleveland.

It was probably the second best team in the east. Another seven game series. Where we turned into a team was when we lost game two in the, at home. Right. Against Detroit.

And then in foot. That's when when we went to Detroit one, that was the moment that we went from here. And where the next it was game four Atlanta. Right. And when I saw something, tell people each round as much as each players think they know.

And coaches all of us. You're good in the first round. Your team is different in the second round. You win that round. Your team is different again in the third round.

Because you keep growing. You keep trusting. Guys start either becoming more on selfish. They start seeing themselves with a chance to win. And each round your team gets better.

Each round it does. And that's everything.

“What's your theory for why a home court advantage seemingly does that matter anymore?”

Well, I don't have one. I'm really doing. I've thought about it. You know, the talent, the offense. Three points shooting variance.

I travel. I think the travel is easier. What about? What about DMs and Tinder? And you don't have to go to clubs to meet girls.

That helps. That helps. That helps. That helps, Dominique. As I think, Riley said, it's not the act.

Yeah. It's the chasing. Right. You know. So yeah, I think all that.

But I do think it's the three point shot that has changed. Because the next one. Two and Cleveland. Yep. And then all three in San Antonio.

Look at last year in the Anna. That's one. Thank you. Were they played? Yeah, there's no.

There's no lead that's safe anymore. I have a Boston fan front of mine says the biggest thing that's changed is they have all these rules that the fans can't be Superman to the other team anymore. Oh, no. They're pretty. They're still pretty main.

Yeah.

“You know, there's been teams where they would put people behind the visiting bench.”

And they would just yell at the guy. They have lead on the barber. Yeah. Yeah. That air is kind of over there.

It's gone. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's. But I know it's fun as a player.

I love the rope. Yeah. I love fun on a rope. Well, that's the best wins, right? When you shut the crowd I'm better.

It's the most powerful. Because I wanted to beat the lakers. So bad in game five. Yeah. I wanted to win there.

So bad. I just talked about this game in a podcast. Yeah. Because I was telling a story about how. That next game five with foster reminded me of.

Game five. Yeah. And so to pull Pierce. Yeah. And round felt out of the game.

How many games did Ray on foul? Yeah. Yeah. And that many. But that was one of those.

Yeah. I just. We made a good way. Well, either. I didn't get any.

That was the first game. The only game. You can't get find anymore. It was 20 years. Yeah.

You didn't get any. I thought. Yeah. Well, we didn't get any. With game seven.

That's for a whole another show. Yeah. They appreciate and change. Yeah.

The first half of the second half.

You know, in that seventh game in two ten. We made a lot of power. We sold it to shove everybody around. Yeah. Went from.

They won't call on anything to. I think it was 17 to five. But that's a good example. Yeah. Of the little margins, right?

So why why did it. We ultimately. I'm going to say we like. I was playing. Oh, up to week.

Why do we lose that game? Because Rashid Wallace had played 35 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. And because Perkins is out.

And that tilted it just enough. I know. You didn't have. You were 10 man. Kevin was more like Wimbledon in the fact that it went me.

Kevin was. He rebounds. Yeah. Kevin's Kevin's.

Once he got back from injury, he never could practice.

He worked the way he worked. And fatigue was a major factor. With KG. And that's that was good.

Yeah. And that's where we let him out. We own him. But we let him out of the bag. Well, that's the thing with these.

We need to talk about the margins. Because a great one was 2016 game seven. Where's Caves? Bogots out. Barnes is unplayable.

Yeah. Also, I'm fest. This is the least out there. There was six minutes. Yeah.

LeBron targets him. Get six points out of them. Yeah. And that swings the game. Yeah.

And it's like. But it's a little thing. But it's a little thing. But it's a huge thing.

And it's always find that interesting.

Like the Brian had figured out how to win that. We wanted Miami. He had gone through those each rounds. And so now he knew how to win. He'd become a winner.

And I just didn't know because I felt like he was. I mean, he's easily one of the four, five smartest players of this century. Yeah. And then he's. Probably the best athlete of the century.

Yeah. But something had to like settle in with him. It was almost like like a cake. Yeah. He had to like stay in the other.

Yeah. He had to settle. We had to figure out how to win people. And the pressure. I think he's going to win.

How do you know how to? Right. You know, if you haven't won. So it's. You know, he learned from Ricky.

Yeah. There he is.

Some people with natural.

You know, magic was a winner coming in the pros. Yeah. One of national title. The biggest game.

“And I think the biggest college game in the history of college basketball has to be.”

And I think it still is. Yeah. You know, I know where I was at when Larry Bird and Magic played. I remember that game. Um, when you see that, that, uh, brought someone's the 15th guy to win high school college

and NBA. Yeah. I didn't see that. No, that's a lot. You know, who else is on their Korean Russell and magic.

Yeah. I was going to say that's a lot like Bill. That's people. That has to matter. It matters more than so many other things.

Yeah. This guy just keeps wanting. That'd be done. Well, they pot that team probably has two years left. But now they're going to deal with the Pat Riley disease a more.

Yeah. I gave up stuff.

Now, I'm not as excited to give up stuff.

Well, I don't really like shooting a chats a game anymore. I'd like to call it 12. Michael called it the trophy tour. You're going to deal with all the trophy tour guys. And I remember asked, what are you talking about?

Oh, no. These guys, they're carrying the trophy that they're home towns. They're having courage for them. Uh, they're going to come back. They're going to want more.

Really? Yeah. Oh, sorry. Like, yeah. You called it the trophy tour.

Did you see the Jim Doe on speech? No. I've got to send it to you. I've got to send it to you. Have you been saying to me?

No. He, this, uh, Brunson's podcast. They put the speech on their feed. He gave a 15 minute speech to the team before the playoffs. Wow.

Sat in front of them. I couldn't believe it. It's like a great speech. It's like a sports movie. I have to see this.

But then this whole speech about.

“I think this team is going to win the title.”

But it's only going to happen. If you guys dedicate this, you're going to have to put the team above your set. It's like he, it was kind of great. He's like, you're going to have to tell what at one point it goes. I'm going to give you your wife for your significant other championship rings.

If we win this because they're going to have to sacrifice to this has to be all you think about. Wow. This is going to be the hardest thing in your life. Have Riley speech. Well, then he comes.

Yeah. If we win. What this will mean in New York City. I can't even explain to you what's going to happen to everybody in this room. You got to watch it.

It's like, I didn't have to send you. Just listen, listen, he's, they've done everything right. Like, Leahon, man, we talked about this two podcasts ago about Leanna West. Yeah, but anybody, and I remember I said anybody can get to star. I can make a trade.

I can take over to the mirror and find a way of getting to star. But can you put the right people around them? And God, darn, every decision they made came up. Go. It came up.

Go. Would you, I talked about this before. But would you, do you think that job of being a GM with relationships and knowing kids who turn into adults? Yeah.

That you recruited in stuff. That feels like more of it advantage than like West New Townsend. It was 15. Yeah. You're trying to get married.

Like he's done that guy forever. So he's like, oh, it's contract. Absolutely. No, no, he's good kid. We got to get him in.

“Should more owners be looking at people who were like agents?”

Or agents? Or agents? Or even players who want to be front office people? Yeah. You know, like Chris Paul do this?

I don't know if he has a relationship. Right. But one thing Chris does, you know, is he knows players? I guess Jamal Crawford knows everybody in the league, you know? Right.

He's voted team, team made of the year every year. Yeah. If you wanted one guy to get, and I'm joking. Okay. The younger Jordan knows singly every single person in the league.

It's funny when he played on the Olympic team coach Kate calls me like, hey, just

I have never seen a guy that everyone wants to be with.

And, and you know, have we talked about this? Because when I had that, well, I still have the cup of syndicates. Yeah. When he didn't play, he wasn't playing. He was like a scrub on the cup of it.

Yes. But before and after the games, he knew everybody on the other teams. And it was like, can't shake his hugs. I know it's made of my wife. I don't know what to deal with with this backup center.

He knows everybody the league. When I got him, and you know, when I came in, he had the big talk. And for him, you know, my mom and my favorite player coach stories of all time. I gave him that long list of like, you know, he told me he wanted to score more. Yeah.

Yeah.

“And that's why he didn't play well the year before he was pelting.”

Uh, you know, there's my first year there. I was in my first meeting with DJ. Literally my first meeting, we're at Noble. Yeah. And I was like, so many don't they could have told you that you're going to score more. He said, no, it told me to work on my offense.

And then I did that and then you get the ball. And I said, I'm going to have you work on your offense too. But I'm going to guarantee you one thing. And he says, what's the, I will never call a play for you. Never.

And he's looking, I mean, this is our first meeting.

I said, but if you get every rebound, you become. I'm going to make you the defensive captain. I give a list. Yeah. All defense.

Uh, you know, all start team. Rebound team rebounding title. All these lists and then NBA champion. Uh, and it's an emotional one. He checked them all off.

And then when you won the title with the Denver nut. Right. I'm built 10 minutes after the game. I get a bean on my phone. It's a picture with him in the trophy and he had the note.

And it said, checked. Wow. How awesome is that? Yeah. That's that was the Andre.

That was pretty cool. We took chair and get in the room. Yeah. Don't give me started. What that one.

“I'm going to give you the one thing I loved about daddy.”

And we would not. Me and Danny love. We had a great relationship. But my son Jeremiah. Yeah.

Yeah. That played with somebody's guys now. Oh, I think he told me. Yeah. He knew.

Doing the draft. Doing that draft. They are kids. He's like, I'm telling you. I played with him.

And Danny loved him. Danny loved him. Well, things had a pretty high batting average. Yeah. He was like, listen, I knew what Danny did.

Let him do it. Whatever. He's right most of the time. Well, you know, it's funny.

You know how they have the second pick and people.

Like Peterson said he wasn't going to work out for them. And it's nobody's going to know who you taught. And he was like, I know what you taught's going to do. It's like, good luck. Well, I don't think people who work for you taught knows what Danny is going to.

It was over game one or game two. I had Larry. Yeah. Over in Lawrence Frank. And this funny Larry really enjoyed enjoyed Lawrence Frank.

It's Lawrence of, you know, it's an active. Right. Just ask you questions. And he's asking. He's just buzzing when we question.

And we start doing my Danny. And we're laughing like. No one knows what Danny is up to. No one. And it's the truth.

“I think they're going to take care of Booser.”

Only because of 25 years of watching how Danny thinks about this stuff. Yeah. I just think he's going to be like, you know what? That guy's just really good. Danny.

Take a nap guy. I will say this about Danny. He knows already. Yeah. I guarantee that.

Yeah. He's like walking in a bar and seeing a girl. Yeah. He's trying to sell other franchises on someone else. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you looked at the draft at all or now? That much.

That's it. No. You're like a retired guy. Yeah. I'm playing golf golf.

Trying to build your endurance up. Yeah. The turbo golf. But I enjoy it. Yeah.

Well, we got to talk about Yana Straits. Yeah. So when you have a trade hanging over a team like that. Yeah. And it's not just Yana's in the box.

It's other stuff. But. And then the way stuff supported now and talked about. Yeah. How do you navigate that as a coach or you don't?

You do. You do. I probably underestimated the damage that it was doing to our team. Yeah. Because, you know, first of all, a lot of the reports, they were just not accurate.

Yeah. And unfortunately, it doesn't matter if they're accurate or not. It's out. Because the reports support in their six hours. Yeah.

And you know, as Al Michael says, some of these guys, they report on the news. And then they, they didn't do reports on the news that they created. Yeah. And so it's just. It's a couple of days.

But take it back to the buffet table. Yeah. It takes a life of a tone. Because I knew what Yana Straits tell me. Yeah.

And so some of this stuff just wasn't right. Wouldn't true. And. But that doesn't mean the agents wouldn't telling someone else something else.

If you're coach, I'm trying to get Bill Simmons to play his role.

“You know, like, my world, why am I going to play my role?”

My best player doesn't even want to be here. Yeah. You know, and that is the damage it does.

Yana's really never said to the players that he wanted to leave.

And he never probably said one mistake. You know, and so it's just like everything is uneasy. Yeah, but he did tell him once, guys, I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. He told me that, you know, servicent comes. I'm going nowhere.

Tell me long before the trade deadline. Uh, before I'll start right. Because I'm going nowhere. I don't want to go anywhere. So what am I trading for if I'm getting getting him?

Because I don't know if you're aware, but of her. The Boston Celtics are one of the possible teams. I've heard of her. Well, you're getting. Uh, a rejuvenated. Healthy.

Uh, Yana's. Is that a healthy or hopefully healthy? No, he's healthy. And I also think. This will be his first time in four years, not having your basketball.

You know, so Yana and I had a conversation. I want to say a month before the season ended.

And you know, you remember the whole.

Should you come back. And I was I was honest. I said, Yana, in my opinion, all right, you shouldn't come back. You know, seasons over. Yeah.

You need to sit.

“Um, I said, but you should look at this as a great opportunity.”

Uh, you can start working out now. Uh, you can bring in your guy that you work with. And you can start now for next year. There's no European basketball. You get a whole year.

To really work on your skill. Think the Rocky three. I had a tiger. Yeah. Yeah.

And he started doing it. He was, you know, before I left. He was already into his workouts. You know, so I think there's going to get that. I think it'll be good for him probably.

You know, just, uh, to get all this stuff out off of him.

He can focus on basketball and playing. But how does it make sense? And I've already said on the record. I kind of hope the Celtics don't trade for him. Because I think it's risky because this will be his 14th year in the league.

The history of big men is they get older. No, he's not a typical big. He said it. I know, but I'm just going by history. I don't think it's.

It's not like getting. No, he didn't get into that. Yeah, and also with any trade, you risk chemistry. Uh, you don't even if you think your chemistry is not great now. Uh, you risk making it way better.

You also risk making it worse. We've seen this happen and then be over and over again. But I don't understand why he would want to go to. My name is the one. I don't, I can't figure out.

Let's say I've other moves coming there. Because it's like all right, it's him and Bam, but you just traded everybody else. And where are you going? And you would have traded your clothes or because tell the heroes of clothes. Right.

You know, see what you want about him. But he's a straight. So why would I want to go later on? Yeah, I would just rather stay in the wild. That's where he's trusting their front office.

That they have their ability to add more pieces. You know, that's the those are the talks we're doing. After the last two rounds of basketball we watched. You, you need like seven eight. You need a lot of guys.

It can't just be you and Bam. You can't be you and Jay, Jay. Yeah. Well, the Celtics still have a lot of players. No, I know.

There's, there's a much safer thing for him.

“The only thing from the Celtics point of view is you are shortening your window.”

You know, because John is his older and Brown is younger. But John is his older with more miles on him. He's also maybe after that window give yourself a chance to have another window with Jason Taylor. Right. You know what I mean?

So it depends on how the front office is look at it. What would you do if you were Boston? Well, that's tough. You know, I don't ever say it because I don't know. Because you traded for KG, you had a five year window of KG.

Right. Yeah. You knew it's like, I've had my peers. Yeah. Yeah, this is four to five years.

Yeah. I remember we thought when we did it, we thought we had a three to four year window. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why you can't take anything for granted.

I said it the other day. You remember when Oklahoma City, KG, KD, James Harden, Baka. I was not when this happened. They thought their window was limitless. Yeah.

My brain. I remember my brain. Say, well, you know, they lost the series. But they're going to be back here many times. They never made it back.

Like assuming 86 rockets. Yeah. You can 95 magic. There's no assumptions. There's no this league winning is brutally hard.

You have to play well. You have to act right. You have to get along. You need luck. You need everything to win a title.

So I think you get you on as these next two years would be the years you. You have to cash in. Yeah, he's going to be. He's so motivated.

You know, it's not like he's not always.

But he just motivated. He wants to be wants to win another title. Yeah. Y'all just wants to win. Like it's interesting.

We were just talking about it. He didn't talk a lot about his play. Yeah. He talked about winning. And Y'all just wants to win.

I don't know what the right team is for him. I don't need to actually win a title. You have to have a closer with him. And that's what the team wants to have.

“That's what the team makes more sense because a two-man game with Y'all doesn't hate him.”

Good luck. The only thing I said on the pod that I guess it was a reporting, but I know I'm right, is that the Celtics being an offer. I don't know if Jalen Brown was in it. Yeah.

I think he has to be in it. I don't know how you did that. I don't know either, but I don't know how you would make an offer with that. The problem with our league now is when I first started coaching, you could have all these conversations

and the player would never know.

Never know. Now the player always does. They know what 10 minutes after the conversation. Is this what happened with KD and Brooklyn with Jalen Brown? Yeah.

Once when he heard about that. Once the news happens, there's damage. You know, it's really tough for teams. You should have conversation. Yeah.

You should always try. Listen to everything. That's the mean you're doing it. And my guess is it wasn't a Celtics calling. It was probably Milwaukee calling Boston or they're trying to figure out.

They're talking basic vague parameters.

“And then Milwaukee goes, well, if we got Jalen Brown, could we spin him?”

Yeah. Now you talk to another team. Yeah. Everyone says there's going to be three teams. Whatever this has to be.

If it does happen, it'll be three teams. It's just, you know, with the clipers. Jalen could become an LA. I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if the clip is were involved in this at all. With the financial ability of Steve Bomber and that organization.

And they have some calf space. They also have 80 degrees in no humidity. And they have an ocean. People like that. Right.

They players like that. You know, before it was all makers. You know, when it was a little like the next next situation. Yeah. And but now.

You know, that's one of the things I would say if I have a lot of pride about things which I never do because I don't ever think that in those terms.

But that's what I'm like. No, you should take. We wanted to. When I took that clip or job, I remember said I said in the press conference. We're going to make this a destination.

We're going to make the clipers a place that people want to come to. Now I didn't know at the time with Donald Sterling as the owner. That was a pilot's guy thought when you think about it. But even Donald. Hey, you know, players.

But then when bomber came organizationally like everything's first class. It do everything right. Me, it's they do it the right way. Yeah, when I got my tickets in 04. I just got it for the other teams, which is why most of the people were.

Yeah, right. Unfortunately, and it was really kind of fun to go to the games. There was so dysfunctional year after year after year. And then, you know, it was a little baby steps. They draft way.

He finally gets there. The Chris Paul thing falls out of the sky. And all of a sudden it starts to look like a real team. You know, bad. So when I was traded to the clipers as a player.

Yeah, in the 90s. My wife. Chris Rivers goes to the first game. And she's in the stands crying. True story.

She's sitting next to Gloria Schueler. That was Mike Schueler's wife. Yeah. And Gloria is console her. And like, what's wrong, baby?

My son is my son. And he, my uh, she says, my husband is no longer in the NBA. And he doesn't know it. Oh, okay. And she was like, say, no, baby, that's not true.

That's not true. It isn't. Yeah. And she gives a, no, it's not.

“Well, the way back then, if you remember at the clip joint, that thing was a mess.”

It was a mess. I never went there because I would never been in LA until the 2000. Oh, I heard it was. There's books at the sports arena. It was a random mess.

Yeah. It was a mess. They had comedians doing shows after the game. The two people. I mean, you could literally check yourself in.

It was no one there. It was crazy. It's one of the only good sports documentary ideas left. That I don't think Balmer were ever let happen. Like the actual history of the clippers.

And what. What if I'm bomber, I would because the ending is a glorious story. And he's, he was a white knight. I hope it's glorious. We don't know how the aspirations came.

It was bad at worst. It was at worst. He's still going to be there. Sure. And he's still going to keep doing things well.

And so I wouldn't worry about it. So you, if you're the clippers, you would rather have a star than the fifth pick. Yeah, I think if you have a client guard. Yeah, if you have a really good front.

Yeah. I think right now, here's my belief. And a lot of front officers don't believe this happened. If you legitimately can look yourself in the eye and say, if we do this move, we have a chance to win.

You should go for it. I think so many franchises have waited. No, man. No, this is not. If this is the time, you got to, you got to cash in it.

But you got to have a very honest, like, isn't or isn't it? Because a lot of teams think they do it. And then what did they do? You know, and I don't remember last year. Last year, Orlando traded for Bane.

And they said, now we have a chance. So I'm like, what? No, you know, you're better. It's a hell of a trade. It's a good trade.

But you're not ready to win yet.

“That's how it's feel about these trades.”

If I'm, if I'm doing it, I better at these tab of chance. Yeah, but you have to be honest enough to evaluate the league and in which you have for sure. Like Celtics, Ray Allen trade, then the KG trade.

You basically trade on assets.

No, no, and the best team in the East. Yeah, of course, I'm going to do that. We, we knew immediately. We had a shot. We knew right.

We knew we had to be Detroit, Cleveland, and the Lakers. Right. You know, in whatever order, we knew that had to happen. Well, the Lakers trade, which I guess I'll take the loss on this one. But the thing I didn't like about it was like, this is it.

This is your move. Like, now you have no more moves. But he has turned out they had an extra move because the town's trade. Yeah. He came the extra move.

I thought after bridges. I didn't want to. Everyone made the big deal about the bridges trade. Five pages is a lot. Well, was anything they could have given them for you on it?

It still didn't constrict them. You know, they went out and got towns. It didn't stop them. Yeah. And I don't know if there's a better role player for your basketball team.

The bridges. Yeah. He's willing to take four shots, 15 shots, six shots. Every game he shows up. He didn't know.

And by the way, he plays basketball. He's up there. He does a misgain. Yeah, he plays every night. And he's still one of the better defenders.

Every single night. Yeah. He's a pretty important guy to happen to you, too.

“If you were a Lando, would you think about Palo for you on us?”

I don't know, man. That's. Is that. So you in the title cover? Yeah.

I would do it if I'm on Lando. If I thought that put us over the hump. I got you on us. I have friends. I've been.

I've sucks. I don't know. You have enough shooting. You're saying. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. If you can get enough shooting, you know, I don't know what the other moves. Like I keep saying it.

I can go get a you on us, right? But does that put us over to the top? And do we know how to make the rest of the moves to win? Teams do it over every year. Bill every year.

We see it. Teams go and get a star. How about Houston? I've vanbly coming back. I'm I have to give up.

Sheengood in the trade. I'm guess. Yeah. And maybe Jabar is spent too. Yeah.

And I might have to take a contract back. I know. I don't know if that works. I don't think it works either. Yeah.

I don't think I'm better than. Yeah. Yeah. No. San Antonio is the interesting one.

But I don't think they would do it. They probably wouldn't do it. Oklahoma could as well. Oklahoma. Not their style.

Oklahoma could do any trade they wanted to. Right. What they have. What Sam is done is. They have well been 17 in this drama.

Like they're mad at draft picks. Yeah. Oh my god. What are we going to do with all this stuff?

He's in the first situation ever.

I think I'd run out of the eighth pick. Then the twelfth pick. Yeah. I'm just going to go trade for it. Yeah.

He's going to do a two for one. He has it. You know, he almost has to. Yeah. There's a center in this draft.

Who I like the Michigan kid. Yeah. He's solid. That's great. Yeah.

You've watched the morning me. Well, he's sent for three. Yeah. He's a good passer. And through the through the Wemby prison now.

Yeah. I need size. Where am I getting size? Yeah. Wemby is everybody in the West.

Yeah. You have to think about it. You have to think about it. You know, you know, the son of the nicks. They didn't just where I was way wrong.

There's no way I thought towns would or could. Gar Wendy.

And he did an amazing job.

And he didn't really have dumb files. No. No. You know, you made an interesting statistically going into the series.

“You know, who's the best defender on Wemby plus minus?”

Who? OG.

Gar Wendy. Do you know he was that good? No. No. I knew he was a great defender.

Great. Like elite.

I never thought he'd be able to shoot and make shots and make plays the way he does.

And I never knew he had the IQ. Yeah. He has an incredibly high basketball instinctive IQ. I love how he. There's got to, there's no way to have a staff for this.

Like, do you do the most positive things that you're capable of doing in the least negative things? Yeah. Something about like you know yourself the best out of anyone. You always have these guys who are like, oh, I bet I can do it and they can't. He never does anything he can't do.

Yeah. The whole league has irrational confidence. Right. Every player has irrational confidence. That's what makes him good.

“But if you want to be a successful coach,”

always tell young coaches. If you can get all 12 year guys to know exactly who they are. Now you're never going to do that. But if you can do that, you will never lose. What do you never lose?

You talk to coaches all the time.

All the time. You're like the fucking Yoda of. You talk a lot. You talk to all of them. What is their biggest thing that they're worried about now?

Like just with basketball on 2016. Yes. Because no one's ever asked that question. That's a great question. Thank you.

A lot of them are concerned with how many the outside forces touching their players. It's just too many people. You mean like shooting coach, manager. Yeah. Even inside.

Like you got 10 skill developing guys who I love. You have the medical team now is bigger than your coaching staff. They're just so many voices. And how do you manage those voices? Like coachers not just the players.

If your coacher in the training room or which is skill development are all locked in on the same thing. You're not winning. Right. You know, 15 years ago I had to worry about four coaches in two. Of course.

You met at two. Yeah, two or three coaches and two trainers. It was easy to kind of circle the wagons and they have a great culture. Now you got, you know, a lot of people. How many coaches do we actually need?

And also here's this. Because like I was watching they were showing the 76 finals. Yeah. And the Celtics had Tom Henson as the head coach. John Kill Les as assistant.

That was it. Yeah. Just the two of them. And if both of them got thrown out. Dave Collins had to become the coach.

Yeah. We had Dick Harder and Jeff and Gundy. Sounds great. Yeah.

“So cool because I remember her my knee and I needed a coach to come rebound for me.”

I needed to skill development guy. I do a lot of skill development guys. I think they really help players. Yeah. I would go Jeff and Gundy.

And that's, you know, it's funny. Jeff was just Jeff was the greatest freaking guy. Yeah. Because he shut his mouth and he just rebounded for me. He could tell like I was just shooting shooting.

And if I miss you run and get it and throw it back. Wouldn't say a word. Just just bag balls for you and shot. And, you know, wouldn't tell middle of that workout when I were just sitting there talking afterwards. And he said his age and I said, wait a minute.

I'm older than you. What? You know, I didn't even know that. You know. Jeff.

And he said that crazy. Yeah. So they worry about outside forces. Yeah. About wear and tear of the schedule.

Not as much as you think. Yeah. I think the coaches were about that far less than front office. And medical teams do. And then I think they do worry about.

It's harder to get players to buy in that because of the two ways. No, because of all the other stuff. You know, everyone has their own brand now. They're everyone. Right.

You know, guys, you're like, why do you have. What do you have a person? Yeah. What do you have a publicist? What do you need a publicist for?

Yeah. You're a government fan. Yeah. They all have them. They're hawking, selling something, creating something.

I mean, this is real business amounted for these guys.

“So I think that's what they're more concerned about than anything else.”

The football player is there. Now, it's time for the midfielder with Juven and so on. Click on the banner. And it's time for the interview. The full program of the review app.

Next to Match winner. Winner of your midfielder with Bob. The strongest reviewer of all the time.

And the most important thing is to have your fan coupon.

So how the chance of attractive prizes. So let's have your fan bonus in the review app. Only at 18 to 17. I have something that you didn't know about.

No. Oh, my gosh. This is awesome.

So where did you get this from?

I after the 2007 draft. Yeah. Somebody asked me grab this for me and sent me an email and said, Hey, I grabbed the envelope. Do you want it?

And I was like, fuck yeah, I'll take it. Not realizing. How about that? Yeah, just want a title for me. That one you a title.

That's one me a title. I will say. That was a lowest. Our offices. Everything.

It's the lowest. I think I've ever been. It's the worst fan did everything to get the best pick. Yeah. I mean, I wish I could have some of those games back.

That, I mean, you're just issuing for jail free. March. March. I would look up in the stand some nights. And you know, let's say, girls having an item.

Somebody and then he's looking to be like. Right. I take them out.

“I remember Rondo was almost like too good to play.”

Yeah. Yeah, Rondo. I mean, it was. So that one comes up. That's it.

That was a yeah. That was a rough night. Because think about it if we got. If we got one and you took Odin. Oh.

You're probably doing TV. Yeah. It was. Any swears. He was taking the rent.

Yeah. I don't know if that's true. I think that's true. But then he kept things so close. I wouldn't have known until late anyway.

Well, the story I've heard was that the Celtics doctor. It had a great doctor back then. Yeah. Yeah. He actually gave a couple flags.

The only one that always, you know,

Dr. McKinnon, I've become. Yeah. We golf and only thing I still kill him on Brandon Roy. Like we could have had him. And he.

He said guys. No. He's going to wasn't wrong. He was like four years or window. Yeah.

You know, he said it was a really good five year. Yeah. And I always said I would have taken those five years. Yeah. But he was, it was amazing how correct.

He said that guy is going to play four or five years. And then it's careers going to go the other way. I mean, it was like to the year. It's unbelievable. Yeah.

So what's your final year on this prediction before we go? I think it gets moving. Yeah. He's Costa West Coast. I don't, you know,

I think teams make a mistake when they worry about that. Get the best do. Okay.

“But I think would you predict the Eastern Conference or Western Conference?”

I'm going to go west. You're going west.

I'm sorry, I'm going to go east.

You're going to go east. Yeah. Do you think Yana's will be in the NBA finals again? Yes. If he goes to the right place.

Do you think the NASA will be in the NBA finals again? He'll be there. He'll be there for sure. He won't be on the day. Well, it's the NASA's best pickup basketball strength.

Energy. What? What they got to you? Like the dude. There were days where he actually was useful because.

You know, he would ramp it up. Yeah. He was playing hard. Like the NASA's no one won the practice against him. Yeah.

It's going to say we see the guy in the gym that everybody was getting mad at. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know what was that for me?

But Leon with the rough. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I made the all star team that year. And I swear to gosh, it's because of Leon with.

I hated him. I was back then you planned 42 minutes. And back then you practiced every day. Right. And you scrimmaged a lot.

And, you know, I just played 42 minutes during DJ. And the next day, we're practicing. And Leon would have picked me a full court. You know, there was days I wanted to just punch him. But that's probably why it hurts when you hit a five-wood down.

Yeah. No doubt. He hurts when I've been down. You played probably 80 games. Yeah.

That's funny. How do you? The last game that Leon did, I say, Leon. You moved just like me. We did too much.

Who do you think? By the way, I had before we go ahead. You just coached a team. Questions, random ones. Who did you think the best ref in the league was?

You're right now. Right now. The best ref this season that you saw. I thought Scott Foster. Scott Foster.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I think he has really become.

You know what I've learned. It's not just his ref reign. Where Scott has improved. This is people's skills. And there's a couple other ones that I really like.

Any young ones?

“Josh, Josh, Tim, and I think has a good demeanor overall.”

Takes it very seriously. I love. I love. I learned a little bit doing COVID. I got a chance to the golf with some of the rest.

Oh, it's interesting. I have found this thing. Some of these guys care so much. They want to be like really good at their jobs. And those are the guys I like.

Then there's another group of guys and like, why are you so upset? It's just the game. Yeah.

Yeah.

So give me that first group because it hurts them.

Like they know when they make a mistake. And it hurts them just like you. Those are the refs you want. Scott Foster. Yeah.

I think he's really, he's a solid NBA.

“What coach impressed you the most that you went against?”

Well, that's a great, well you get questions. But I forgot to ask you these last time you're on. Yeah. Was there one we were like, man, that guy's got fucking everything going here. Well, I mean, it's tough Oklahoma.

It was so good. Yeah. But I still think he's really good. Yeah. I think he's.

He's really marked it like he does. He makes the right plays. He's supposed to write guys in though. I thought in the last series with guys injured. You know, it was tough for him.

Yeah. I was impressed when Mike Brown this year. You know, I've played against him. Coach against him and two Eastern, you know, I beat him twice when he had the broth. Yeah.

And I think his growth has.

He's a different coach from when he was back then. There's no like he's different. I love and I, I'm a couple, we got to come with us. I love their certain coaches. You better be ready.

Right. And then there's other coaches I felt like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

This is this. I know what they're doing. Yeah.

“There's there's certain their coaches that I felt.”

Because I thought one of the things I did well throughout my career was ATOs. You know, we call it time out. We were scoring. Yeah. I had a very, very, very prominent coach.

He told me he lost me he admitted this. He lost the game. To me because they had a time out. We didn't and he didn't use it because he didn't want me to be able to drop a play. And he said, if it's so stupid that he didn't.

Yeah. And there's coaches that you feel the same about.

Like, yeah, I call it time out.

They're going to get to drop a play too. And he's killing us right now. Right. Out of time out. So there's, you know, that goes both ways with coaches.

Steven's was the best I ever saw at that. Brad was great out of time out. I don't know. He must have like some database. Yeah.

He's crazy. Yeah. You would be amazed at coaches. Like, Tyloo has every ATO that I've ever drawn up. Really?

Yeah. The entire time he was my assistant. He's just like in a Google Doc or something. He'd draw it up and keep it. He had a book.

He would draw them all up and he would keep them. And they'd be this in Philly one game with one of my plays. And it incensed me. It just helps. Jesus me off.

So bad. They literally ran a play to that. The flat nation. Yeah. And it was flawless.

And, you know, we talked about it afterwards. He was laughing. Like, tips it that a lot. You know, we all steal from each other. Nobody's a genius in this.

We all think we are. No one's. You. I can watch a game. I watch a game now.

I hope. Wow. That's good. I can tweet this.

“You know, that's how coaches watch games.”

It's pretty cool. Yeah. I remember game one. We were texting and you were like, I don't like. I don't like this.

Wemby on towns. Yeah. I don't like this. He's got a hill get away from this. It goes like that.

Yeah. I don't like this match up. Yeah. Well, guess what? He stopped doing it.

Yeah. Yeah. Give me two young players who aren't superstars or. No stars yet that you think are going to get there. Well, he's known.

But edge comb has a chance to be. Really good. Oh, because he has to make up. And I think having max you around him. So you're buying stock on the max.

It's gone. It may be too small. What would you like about edge comb? Is edge like he's he's going to be. What edge comb is going to be.

I don't know how good he'll be offensively. No, it played on Austin's a youth team. Hmm. I don't know how good he'll be offensively. He's ahead of where I thought he was already.

But he's going to be. And it'll lead defensive play on NBA. Elite. That's coming. And you can see that.

I'm trying to canvas the league with my imagination. Right. I would have thrown Dillon Harper in there before the final. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the obvious choice for all of us. I'm thinking like. Castle is the other guy that we don't talk about enough. You know.

Castle is a. A. Consistent shooter away from being a consensus. All star player every year. How about said to a coward?

I don't know yet. You like you. Yeah. Yeah. You like him.

I'm not sure yet. Yeah. I'm not sure about the intangibles. Yeah.

Yeah.

“It's it's so hard to judge somebody's guys.”

It's also hard to judge a guy on the good team that doesn't play a lot or plays role.

You know. Yeah. You don't get to see it. My problem is I don't go to as many games as I used to. And I always pick up.

I'm sure you're the same way. You pick up so much more in person. All you do. Like the Quippers backup center. Yeah.

Who ended up getting hurt. Need a house or whatever. Yeah. I love that guy. Yeah.

That guy's a guy. He will be like in a playoff rotation. I've got a question for you. Yeah. And next.

Who will be the other two teams in these? Next year. I'm interested to see what Charlotte does with 14 and 18. And then maybe next year is not their year. Maybe they'll be like, we'll draft two more guys.

This is a slow build. Yeah. But I asked something that could zag the other way. And just go get somebody really good. Make a run at it with the shooting they have.

I wouldn't be surprised if they moved someone. And then did the trade as well. I got. Honestly. That was like an interesting yonist team to me.

It's different timeline. Yeah. But Charlotte was a wild car for me though. Charles was one of those young coaches that I was. I said it in the real coach.

That I was extremely impressed with. We beat them three out of four times. And we caught them early.

“And I remember sitting with John when horse in the office.”

And he said, man, that team's coming. I said, oh, they're here. Right. I said, I don't know if they know it, but they're here. So I would go Boston.

What do we think Cleveland's going to look like? I don't know who knows. You know. They're going to be in it. You know, Cleveland.

They have to make some decisions.

They can't have $120 million.

Can they win with both big guys to me? It's not the money. They can move the money. Don't trade out. That's that's the court.

The question for them. I wonder, like, did they trade out in a sign and trade with the bronze for the LeBron Cleveland Fairwell tour? Yeah, that whole thing is going to be a mess. I mean, whatever LeBron does.

And he, listen, he deserves it. But where he goes and what he does. It feels like things are fractured a little bit. No way. With him.

But that's actually true. But it feels that way. Everything feels fractured until they figure out a monetary figure. To make it un fractured. The make up is unbelievable and oriented.

Well, I told you. I think he's going to go and state. I really do have things that's going to happen. I don't believe that. But you said that.

I really think it's going to have. All right. So Boston, New York. Cleveland kind of lingering. I don't know about Orlando.

Well, the two teams to me that people are sleeping on is what Atlanta does. Right.

And then what in the end of this?

Getting soup was big for them. Yeah, I worry about. They would rather have that fish. You know, whatever. Again, soup was there going to be.

Good. Next year. Now, just what's how we're going to look like. And what's this confidence? Yeah.

He's probably playing now. I would assume. Yeah. Yeah. Andy and his welcome.

And Andy and his the one team. That's like we could be the next. And then the biggest wildcard is Detroit who we didn't mention. Yeah. What are they going to do with the cat with the.

With they have all their picks. I'm glad I don't have that decision. To me, they have a franchise defining decision to make. And I'm not sure which way you go. And that's what they think.

Citizen. During.

“Oh, I think that we know how that's going to play.”

All right. Well, they're in pale. But are they going to pan the max? Are they? They pan the max.

I would just wouldn't do that. Yeah. I mean, you can't pay a center of the max. That's not women. Yeah.

I mean, that's a brutal decision because you don't. You know, if I was another team and money, you want to mess the business up? You said. That should be Brooklyn, right? Yes.

I'm doing the offer. It's in Brooklyn the only one with the. Yeah. It's only two teams. I thought.

Yeah. But you, you get a two for one. If they, if they sign them back, they hurt their team. If they don't sign them. They hurt their team.

Well, shit. I mean, this is no matter how much the NBA changes. This has happened every decade. Like, remember McElvin and Seattle or somebody offered she to him or whatever, and then he made more money than Sean Camp.

I remember John. John County. Right. That's another one. John contract.

Was he was on your team? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Who is the man? Is that Kevin Willis? Oh, Dominique. He's making more money. He made more money than Dominique.

Oh, no. It's funny. But Dominique had the nightclub. He's fun. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. He had 21. The nightclub. I remember staying casting.

He was, you know, Dodger. Lower now. Yeah. But I remember staying casting. Call of me.

I said, hey, I need to sit with you and Dominique. We got this situation. And I remember. We sit and talk about the cocky care less. Right.

You care less. I was happy for John. John. I got what you. Turned it down.

But the business did it to screw us. And they, and they got, and they did it.

That was great. My class guy. He was great. He was good. Yeah.

because St. Casson put an office sheet on James Edwards. And he towed Isaiah and him the next

“reagent that the Hawks have, we're going to bother them. And that's why he did it.”

>> Red Army, that that with the next, because they were sniffing around Macco and Macco as a restricted. So he signed, it was like, slide Williams and Marvin went, I forget who the three guys were. And he made them match all the way to the right. >> Red is a great arrow. You know, red is coach, no one of them. Red's the greatest GMF front off ever feels like he is. Oh, it's, if you go by the, just how they built the one team. >> Yeah, you know, they had Joe, they got Kevin McKell in Robert Paris for Joe Barrick here.

They, they draft Danny Ainge knowing he's going to play baseball, granted bird, and they're after bird the year before. They get DJ for Rick Roby. >> He traded for Bill Russell. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't know that. >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay, then it's over. Yeah, the debate is over there. >> Yeah. >> He's like, I like that Bill Russell guy, but you should do a show on who follows after that. >> So I think Presti's in the running. >> He is now for sure.

>> Because it's that because he's nailed the draft picks, and he's made some really good trades. And honestly, like that, and you were there for the Quippers, and they're like, we need to do this. And he's like, I have to have SGA and I have to have all of these picks are not doing it. Well, we can't do that. Okay, no trade.

“>> But he kind of waited out for him. >> Is it great?”

>> This is what Sam Presti learned this time around that he didn't know the first time when he had all the players.

>> Didn't say it was great. Good Williams is great. You know what changed that team? He went out and got Caruso. >> Right. >> In the hardest thing, those are the moves you have to learn how to make when you're a front office guy. And Sam didn't know how to make that move early on, and now we understand the value of that. >> Well, that's another team to watch right now, because they got Thornton team option.

They've heart and stone on team option. They're gonna, I don't think they'll ever pay second. >> There's really a strange team because they have so many picks, so many players. They are looking at this guy and say, well, we can play this guy. >> You know, they have that Thomas Sorber guy, they draft it. Nobody's ever even seen what he looks like. >> They have the riches of all. >> Yeah. >> So they could do, that's a team that Atlanta could potentially trade with.

>> They could do whatever they want. >> I'm with you in Atlanta, but Atlanta has the same issue that you talked about earlier about. Who's scoring for me in the last four minutes of a game? >> CJ, and those two nicknames. >> Yeah, 3, 4 years old.

“>> Yeah, he's 34, and that's how I looked at that series, I was like, if you cut down, see who's their score?”

Like, I'm telling you, man, if you want to look at a championship team, start with the closures. >> Well, how about the box that you're a Yanis one was mostly middle thing. >> You know, the biggest change that Buck, I mean, but me was Yanis had the ball a lot. They took the ball out of Yanis' hands and put it in Drew's hands and Chris Middleton says, and Yanis became the roller. And that two main combination was unguardable, unguardable.

And then they put holiday on Chris Paul, that's the game three of what I'm game two, that changed the whole series. >> Oh, the way Drew Holiday, did you know that that could have been the other person they traded there as Garland? >> Before, did you read that? >> Yeah. >> That was in court. >> Yeah, wow.

>> It was their cheese has been hardened in Drew Holiday, do they beat the next or come close with Drew Holiday? >> Yeah, pretty interesting. >> Yeah, it's interesting, he's, he's wanted a great teammates and team players in the last ten years. >> He's dead by the last 20. >> Yeah, he's that valuable to you, team.

He's just everything right.

>> Seren Fox, going for the lab, I never got your point card take on this.

We didn't talk about this. >> Yeah, well, I want you to go back and look at him. Dr. Rivers still's the ball for my team Elijah on in game one of the Western Congress finals. I grabbed the ball and that threw it a hit here in San Antonio. >> On San Antonio, grabbed the ball, threw it a hit, the Sean Elliott.

Sean probably said to just dribble the clock out, right? >> The taxi basket gets filed, I think he makes one, and Robert Ori, who was O4, makes it three at the buzzer. So yeah, he dribbled that darn clock out. Now he wouldn't dribbled the clock out, and he would've, he probably, maybe you chopped three more seconds off for the release three. >> But then now the file to give timing comes in, there were so many things that went wrong there.

I mean, why would you file that was Fox two and have court? >> That kind of got lost in the whole thing. >> Yeah, no one talked about that. >> And it looked like Alvarado almost went back there.

>> Almost, and I think if he had waited another second, he was going that way.

>> Yeah. >> But besides that, Alvarado wasn't looking to shoot. He was looking to get the ball to Bronson.

>> Yeah, they kind of wasted four seconds more.

It would've been a two second time out, they would've had two seconds in a time out.

>> What did you feel about Mitch not calling time out, right for Wimpy through the ball away?

“>> That's the only thing I didn't like, now, if I was--”

>> 'Cause it's fast, right? He gets rebound and he's right in front of us. >> Yeah, but you knew it was coming, you know, you've been prepared. Let's say if I was flipped, if I was the next, I would've called a time out. Because they're veteran team.

>> Right, they know what to do. >> They know what to do, and I wouldn't want San Antonio to set the defense up. The only reason I would've called a time, and I said it right away. It is because they're so young, that's it. And you know, Wimpy gets a lot of heat from that, but I'm telling you, if you watch the

first play, they are the best advanced past team in the NBA. They do it every time they grab it, and they throw it, and you can see, it was a castles. >> Well, he was-- >> As eyes were there, and then he turned the wrong way. >> Would you see the other angle? >> Yeah.

>> He had both point cards to his right. >> Yeah. >> And he was looking up this way, but--

>> But they always fought right there, this hand up.

>> Always throwing the hand, that's what they do. And you know, but that one, yeah, I'm calling it a time up. >> And then in five years, they wouldn't.

“>> How did you feel about Wimpy being 30 feet from the basket on the OG tip play?”

>> I didn't like that. >> I said that, yes, you know, you remember them coming out, and Wimpy was-- >> They seemed they were the shepherd. >> Yeah, I don't know what happened. I was-- >> There was a good camera behind the basket of, somebody came in that they weren't in his face.

Somebody in the next came in that they didn't account for. And the other thing I think is they were surprised, OG was taking them all out. I don't, I something happened there that I don't know. Only thing that I do know is, I don't think they wanted Wimpy being the guided trap, Brunson.

>> Wouldn't she want Wimpy in the paint just to get-- >> Just to challenge any drive? >> Just to challenge any drive? >> I think you put Wimpy on towns. >> Yeah.

>> And you know this is not going to be a drive. There's going to be a shot. And you want your big shots. >> Six seconds left? >> You want your biggest guy under the ramp.

>> Right. >> And he would have been, if he had a bent on towns, you know, he would have been there. I think that was a tough one.

“But I think-- >> It was still like one of the eight greatest places in the history of the league.”

>> He was on towns when he came out. You could see him, he was there, and then the guards start pointing. I would love to know what actually happened, because something on that floor, one of those guards said, "No, you go here." I mean, they-- something messed him up, and I don't know what it was. >> Mitch Johnson, this summer, we'll be thinking about why did the ball have to bounce

front of the rim straight toward you late. What are the odds? Perfect-- >> It was a brick, it's just like--

>> First of all, not only is the perfect bounce, you know what hard it is to tap that in?

The ball didn't have to go in. >> I think that was like a 100,000 play. >> It was, but it was also 100,000 being alert. >> Yeah. >> Like a lot of guys would have been standing there. He saw it and went for it.

>> And then there's an angle of Facel comes from the side to try to hit the ball. >> Yeah, he probably missed you if I look at it. >> Look at the one's a guy that I thought could have got their step earlier. If Harper gets their step earlier, he's in front of O.G. >> So if the spurs when that game went happens.

>> I think the next one is serious. >> I think the next one is serious anyway. >> Yeah, I agree. >> I thought-- >> 'Cause they could go in San Antonio when it came out. >> Yeah, I think it's clearly, they had five exact same games.

I think we would have had two more of those games. And that's what I want. I just want a more basketball. All I have now is a U.S. Open this week and golf. >> Who's your pick?

>> That's a good-- I'm going with Zander Schaffley. >> That was one of my two. I have Hammer Fleetwood. >> Yeah, Fleetwood. I don't know the length of, but I'm going with him.

And then I think Scottie's going to have a good week this week. >> Is it true you're playing in a celebrity tournament? >> Yeah, I'm going to play. Yeah. >> You know, the bar has been loaded Larry?

>> The bar has been, Larry is supposed to play with me. I've told NBC that Larry wants to play, right? Larry calls me and says he wants to play. Now you're getting a no Larry, but I've known Larry for-- >> Yeah.

>> 35 or whatever. >> We've got some of my favorite buddy Cupcom. >> Yeah, there's 100% chance if Larry commits he's going to back out. >> Yeah. >> All Larry needs is the night before we're leaving.

To hit a shot and it goes wrong and he's out. >> That's it. >> I still can't believe he went to game four. After the game three loss, I thought he was 100% chances flying back. >> Trust me, there was a conversation about it.

It's also he told me if he could have left at halftime of game three. >> He wouldn't, he wouldn't have just left. >> He was thinking about it. >> But it did give us one of the single funniest videos in the history of the MMA, the Josh Hart layup.

>> And then he gave me the greatest taxing game three. I'm sitting there watching and I get a tax and this is, hey,

Can you ask him to please move?

>> He's blocking his view.

“>> He's blocking his letters to the whole game.”

He's trying to look around, he's saying I can deal with Mitch. But didn't he had this other guy? >> This other is assisted. >> Yeah, he kept jumping up and I was like, "Net you, too."

>> It's a curve episode.

>> It's a curve episode, it's funny.

>> All right, that grivers. >> Good to see you. I look at your studio. >> Thanks for coming over. >> This is a blast.

“>> Hey, Bill has an amazing house people.”

>> Woof. >> It's amazing. >> Thanks Doc. >> Yeah, it's nice. >> All right, that's it for the podcast.

Thanks to Doc Rivers, thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Don't forget, rewatchables. Hand that rocks the cradle.

“That one is already up, domestic disturbance.”

Next week, please watch this. John Chavolt of Vince Von trying to be a bad guy. Really special movie. I think I'm gonna have one more podcast before the end of the week.

So we'll try to have something hopefully Thursday night,

heading into the second USA World Cup Soccer game.

I can't wait. See you later in the week. [MUSIC] >> Must be 21+ in president's leg states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star Casino or 18+ in president D.C.

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