A Gutty Spurs Win, Angry Knicks Fans, Game 4 Thoughts, and NBA Draft Movements With Rob Mahoney and J. Kyle Mann

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[MUSIC PLAYING] Bill Simmons Podcasts live here on Netflix, Rob Bahoney is with me, we're coming off game three. Spurs. Next, wanted to mention, you can hear Rob on the Prestige TV

podcast you hear him on the ringer and be a show, as well on Group Chat. I have new rewatchables that went up actually tonight. It's from Hell month, Rob, and we did single-way female. Not sure where you stand on the other way.

I'm anti-single-white female as a concept. The impersonation into potential murder, I can't say I'm for it. Well, we loved it, and we went over two hours talking about it.

“OK, game three, which I think, if the next lost,”

we were going to dub the Trump game. And yet, after watching, watching, what the spurs did today. I got to say, I have no dog in this race. I'm so impressed by the spurs. They-- I actually thought that there was a real possibility

that we're going to do this today, because there

was so many good signs from the first two games.

This is a team with a lot of pride, a lot of Hutspa. It's the second youngest final team we've ever had. The first youngest final team came back from O2 and won in the 77 finals. They showed them in the huddle before the game, Rob.

And they seemed loose. They're doing their dancing stuff. And it was just unintimited by the moment. Meanwhile, every single celebrity on the planet is there, even though this turned into a rock fight, I was wildly impressed with them.

So let's start there.

“Where do your spurs thoughts come and navigate?”

I also thought they could win this one. I mean, games won in two were so tight. It was a classic case of this is the NBA finals. So there are huge takeaways from very, very slim margins. The turnover at the end of game two was catastrophic.

Like that could have been a clear altering play. It could still be a series altering play. We'll see how it all shakes out. But they were there. That close to begin with.

They were doing enough positively to be super competitive over the first two. And I thought in this one in particular, came out with a lot of clarity in their offensive game plan.

In terms of the next have been playing incredible defense,

but even the best defensive game plans come at a cost. Like you're giving up something somewhere. And you could see I was there with Castle and Fox specifically, they knew the the weak side read before it even really spring open. And so that gave me a lot of confidence.

They're like, okay, this he knows what they're doing. The moment I shook up a little bit is that end of second quarter next resurgence where I was like, oh, no, is it just gonna be like this where New York scores at the end of every like late clock opportunity

where they have responses for every conceivable run. That's true. They've been in these playoffs. Fortunately for the spurs, they got, I mean, absolutely saved by a late Stefán Castle three.

And Darren Fox going one on one against OGN and Obi, which is like playing tug of war with a doberman. Like I don't, I wouldn't know part of that match up or anything related to it. - Yeah, the, it turned into a rock fight near the end.

And I couldn't tell if it was the tension of the crowd and the energy of the building and just how long the night was, you know, and everybody took it so long to get in there and every piece of that, how hard everyone was playing. But it felt like neither team could get any shot there.

But the spurs were starting plays with six seconds left, 45 seconds, 45 feet for the basket. You mentioned there were the, I wrote down that the castle lucky bailout three.

- Monastery. - So after two San Antonio Blacks, Brunson scores and it feels like, oh my God. This is, we've been here before with the next and Brunson, I mean, a castle, feels about there.

And then Fox, so I texted you with eight minutes left. And I asked you do we see Fox again, 'cause you come out and they were playing Harper with Castle.

“I think they were playing Bessau and Champenny and Wemby.”

- Yeah. - And I was 50/50 whether we'd see Fox again. He wasn't, seemed like he, he says lost confidence in his three. Was it really attacking the basket like he usually does? And I didn't know if we'd see him again,

but we saw him again and then he made the biggest shot of again.

- Never found confidence in the three though.

And for a moment, I thought the defining play of him coming back was that position where he passed up and opened three to drive into OG and fall over. And it was like, oh my God. That was where you could feel some of the tension.

You could feel some of the potential spurs implosion. But not only did he come up with that huge shot, he had like a possession saving block on cat during that one like next position that wouldn't end and they kept maybe fouling, maybe blocking cat, who's to say.

And then I also thought he had some really good driving kick stuff for shots that just didn't fall. Like some of the cleanest looks of the spurs ended up getting down the stretch. We're triggered by the air and fox of all people.

- There's some weird spurs coaching stuff, still. That I don't really totally understand, but the thing I love that they did today, they staggered the timeouts. I'm almost positive when we didn't come out of the fourth quarter.

“And there was, I think, at least two challenges,”

there was a timeout that he took right after a challenge. And I think he was just trying to use the timeouts.

So he never had to take Wemby out.

And that fourth quarter felt like it went on for 45 minutes. Wemby ended up finishing with the 328 and 6 with the three blocks. And I thought it seemed pretty fresh down the stretch. Now the nicks and the second half,

I think they had at least 10 offensive rebounds. 'Cause there was a, for the first hour of the scheme, each team allayed one offensive rebound 'cause everything was going in. And then it turned into more of a rock fight.

And the nicks started to really hurt them. But I thought Wemby seemed a lot more fresh down the stretch. I still think fundamentally the fact that the spurs had that pad. They were always up six, eight, five, seven, 10, six.

And so when there are offense really one sideways, it was okay. I wonder what happens in a game four. If this is a two point game with three minutes left, I still don't really know what the spurs play is

in that situation. Like what do you see from them? When it gets really slow down half court crowd standing, what's their play? 'Cause we know what it is for the next.

I would say some of the most successful stuff for them to just dial up has been like pretty simple like staggered screens, Wemby and a second screener, and Castle or Fox can come off of that action.

And you'll see multiple nicks when that happens in a gravitating toward Wemby and then like double the cell will be wide open in the corner on the wing. So you can get a good action out of that.

“And frankly, I think it's like a little cleaner for them”

than some of the other stuff that they try to draw up or I mean the possession that led to that Stefan Castle bailout three was just, they were just trying to run the hand off with Victor Webinjama and he got jammed up. This was not like the best cat game or the most sterling cat game,

but I thought he did as well challenging Wemby's jumper. Like in this one, then maybe from anyone I've ever seen defend Victor Webinjama. How many possessions do we see when the leave is feed? It have to just pass out to somebody

'cause he couldn't get the shot up over cat. And so they were able to jam him up in a way that I don't think you can just run ISO for Wemby or dribble hand off for Wemby. I think it has to be slightly more complicated than that.

- Which is what happened at least three times down the stretch where it seemed like he just had the ball with 30 feet from the basket. Under 10 seconds left figured out. And I don't really think he's that kind of player Castle,

who was here to answer the usage rate critics myself included. - In the first half, it was like seven for eight, but he was attacking the basket. And I wrote down on my notes in the first half. Like sometimes this will happen with players

when they're awesome early.

This is always used to be the Celtics with Marcus Smart.

If Marcus Smart was awesome in the first quarter, it's like, ah, are we gonna pay for that later? - Maybe so. - When he's taking 10 field goals in the fourth quarter 'cause he was hot two hours ago.

But Castle, I thought for the most part played a much smarter game than I thought he played the game too. I still think he has the ball just more than I want if I'm a spurs fan when you have these other two point cards that have great handles and are real point cards.

But this is how they do it. - Well, how do you wanted to shake out then? Because our confidence was wavering in deer and fox at points in this game. We were just talking about how you can't just

give the ball to Victor Web and Yamma, 30 feet from the basket. I guess it's Dylan Harper by default that you want a little bit more of. - Who wasn't perfect today?

Even though I thought he swung the game in the second quarter, thought in the second half he got a little. I got this scene and had a couple like reckless drives.

I mean, he does so many good things. I feel, one of the things I noticed, I'm notice this when I used to play pickup. When lefty's guard are their lefty's, they kind of, it's like they have the kryptonite

for the other lefty 'cause they know how the lefty moves.

“And I think with Harper, when he defends Brunson,”

he just seems really comfortable on him and I wonder if we're gonna see that more 'cause Castle's done a good job on him too. But I, how many minutes did Harper play today? To me, he has to be, so he was 32.

- And 32 seems to be where they've landed with him. I'll be interested to see if they bump that at any point because they tried Carter Bryan out. He came up, Guns Blazing, his guarding cat, which I wanted to see made it three.

And then all seven turned into a human bowling ball. So he only played three minutes.

- The Guns were always blazing with Carter Bryan.

Like he really has the one gear. Carter net played nine minutes minus three, which is really good for him, five rebounds. And Kelvin Johnson, they tried to get going. He was plus 14, he was at least being physical,

but Harper is really, I think the only bench guy that can trust. And then we didn't mention this yet, and we should, because I can just tell you from all the text fans I was getting from my Nickfan friends.

Furious about the officiating. Like asking me, knowing I'm a neutral observer,

“like, are you watching this, are you seeing this?”

- I thought Wendy Throw and Brunston down was bad. I was gonna believe that in call that. It's worth mentioning that every time the next challenge a call, it's in their favor, because it was a bad call. So that's definitely happened.

But for the most part, I thought it was pretty even, I don't, what did you think? - I thought this was yet another incredibly physical game. And if you're gonna point in any game in the series where the next got a raw deal officiating wise,

I would say it's game two. This one other than the Wimbie shove on Jalen Brunston, I don't remember a ton of plays that were incredibly egregious. I'm sure if we go back with the microscope

that we can find some, but I thought a lot of people were being held and shoved and pushed basically at all times. - Yeah. - That's just kind of the game it was.

- My buddy Jim Grady, who I've known since I was 15 years old, NBA fucking sucks, the reps you're doing, everything in their power for the spurs. Wimbie Throw and Kelpos is annoying. Just really, like this was every Nick fan I know

“is sending me some bearish and the same thing.”

They did go into the penalty almost immediately in the fourth quarter. - Yeah. - Like there was one moment, they had five fouls and the spurs had zero and if that had been the Celtics,

I would have been the second one.

- Sure. - But I would have that was frustration too. Like the nicks, they came on the fourth quarter. I mean, really for most of the second half, their offense, everything was so difficult.

The spurs were picking up Brunston really high, they were making him work every step of the way. And you could just tell, not even by, like Brunston shooting efficiency, which is fine, like his scoring was fine.

It's more about how many dribbles, how many moves, how much did it tax him, just to create literally anything. And he has to do so much for the nicks. - Yeah, when he came out, so that was the second dead of 42.2nd quarter the nicks.

But he comes out, and it's 33-22 after the first quarter. But Alvarado and Clarkson come together, shift the energy and it's a two-point game. And I thought they were really effective, and they got the crowd into it in a different way.

And as you said, really Brunston's centric, which is usually everybody's least favorite version of the nicks, and that to blame him, but it was just a lot of dribbling. - Yeah.

- The fourth quarter was different. I didn't feel like it was his Brunston centric. I just thought the spurs played, I thought the level they went to defensively. And if you're gonna complain about the raps,

I'd get it, I would do the same thing if it was something. But just know that the reason the spurs one that game was their defense was at a control of the second half. I thought it went higher and higher and higher.

And it was even like, they were trapping towns with two guys getting over the corner guy, getting over to the corner pass to the other side. Like it was fucking crazy to watch. So I think that's fair, right?

The defense won the game. - Okay, completely connected, completely on a string. And I'll say this too for the spurs, like it's not a coincidence that Julian Shempenny

is not on the floor for critical stretches of the fourth quarter.

He's like the closest thing the jail in Brunston has to a target out there. - Yeah. - I thought he even he did find. And really across the board, the spurs in switches

were so competitive and so physical with Brunston, where yeah, he's gonna get his points. And like jail in Brunston has become one of the most inevitable scores in the league. But they did such a great job with the high pickup point

with the constant pressure just wearing down, not just him but the flow of the offense and the nicks are better than pretty much anybody at continuing to find stuff late in the clock. But if you just make them pull rabbits out

of the hat over and over and over, like eventually they're gonna come up empty. - Yeah, after the second quarter, you have OG and hard have 30 points combined. They're 10 for 12.

- Yeah. - The nicks are up seven. And it felt like they only played well for like five minutes.

This is gonna be a sweep. 'Cause there's, I was talking to somebody who mentioned the spurslakers 2001,

“where first two games are in San Antonio, I think.”

Really close games spurs lost both of them. And then in the last two games, the lakers just descended and pummeled them and kicked their ass. And the question is like, are we going this way?

Or are we going, you know, the 77 blazers come back way. I did a thing on my pod yesterday about when a series flips, usually there's some sort of trigger for the flip. What was the trigger tonight for you?

What changed other than the spurs just actually took care of a business in the fourth quarter? Did you feel like something was different about the game? - I think a lot of it was the spurs offense. I think it wasn't constant.

And I don't think the spurs are gonna be that kind of team in the series at any point. The nicks defense is too good. The spurs are still too young and a little bit imprecise. But I thought they did a great job really establishing

and looking for and being patient with getting when be around the basket early. With being a little bit more deliberate as far as what the nicks were giving up on the weekside, like we mentioned earlier.

And then that sort of like there were just moments in this game

where for the first time all series,

it felt like the nicks defense was actually behind in its rotation. Where the spurs were getting ahead of it and you could tell the nicks were just like a step or an entire rotation behind. And guys were getting pretty clean wide open shots

because of the spurs ball movement. That felt really new. And that's the kind of thing where sometimes over the course of a series, you just pick up on the patterns. Like how teams are defending, how they're rotating,

what they're giving up.

“I think the spurs might be a little more in tune”

with that right now. But even that stuff can change pretty quickly. I agree with everything you said, I would add this. It felt like after playing this nicks style for two games, they did a much better job on the fast break transition

stuff tonight. That they just were more ready for it. It felt like they were back and it just felt like the nicks, even though the game was more high scoring, it felt like the shots and the points

that nicks were getting were just kind of harder shots. Like in an open heart, heart,

they were basically allowing a shoot.

And if I'm in the spurs and I'm looking at that second half especially, I thought they missed a lot of wide open shots. I don't know what were they at 12 for 36 from 12 for 34 from three of the spurs. How many of those were contested?

Like a Harper miss, I don't know how many, how many heart threes did Harper take? He took one for eight, right? If Ox was 0 for five. So it's 13 threes.

At 12 of those were wide open. And so, it counts as two. Like they're giving up three of those guards, a lot of room to fire, should they want to? Yeah, so if I'm the spurs and like dude,

we won that game and we didn't even hit all the open threes. Yeah, we actually have a level to go higher than the level we played. If I'm the next, I'm looking at the officiating. And maybe with the from a Brunson standpoint,

so he was 35 minutes, but how do I not put as much miles on him during a game? I mean, part of it was his fault because when Castle would that play reviewed when he not Brunson over, which was not a flagrant, but Castle really,

I've Brunson really tried to sell it. And he kind of almost hurt himself with the exaggerated flop, like he flew back so hard. He like landed on his tailbone and said, "Oh my god, this could be our first semi-flop injury."

And that's that Castle would have been a foul.

“But I think they have to figure that piece out.”

Let's talk about the crowd and the Trump stuff. So I knew a bunch of people out there, they said definitely loud, crazy, especially end of the second quarter. And then some quiet moments too.

There's a lot of people at that game that might have been one of their few games of the year, actually the prices. Which I think we saw happen during the Warriors stretch

as we hit the career, you've that incredible old Warriors crowd

would kind of shit, but it was still really good, but not as good. They went from the Oracle Warriors to the VC Warriors pretty quickly. Pretty quickly.

Very different energy. Yeah, so the crowd seemed like it was good, but I didn't think the spurs were affected. And this was one of the things I said last night. The okay C crowd, where it's just,

it's at this for three hours. Like you're not gonna beat that from a loud standpoint. So atmosphere was great, but the me this spurs, even though they're young, answered the questions, like we like it.

We're fine, we're here. And if anyone looked tense out of the gate, I would say it was the next with some of the early trailers. Like they took a minute to settle in and they certainly did, but the spurs didn't miss a beat.

Like they seemed ready to compete. They seemed ready for it. We're not done to by, you know, celebrity row, all the pageantry with President Trump there. Like I got to say, the getting booed so loudly,

mid national anthem when they put Trump on the jump.

I mean, God bless you, MSG, come on. We're really doing it. So the next fans in general, I think felt like they were invincible after game two. And this was, this was the unnatural act

that could flip the game. Not that Trump was going as much as the circus that comes with that. And people having to get their hours and hours for the game and, you know, just basically disrupting

the entire process of a finals game, which is usually pretty chaotic anyway. We both bend a bunch of finals, like it's abnormal.

“It's, you have to get their super early.”

Everything's tougher. All the security stuff is way bigger.

Like the warm ups, there's a million people on the court.

It already feels like a circus. So that definitely added it. And I did wonder if that was going to affect the flow of the game. Would it seem like to me, which you said earlier, was like the next, I don't think they seem nervous,

but they had so much adrenaline. They almost didn't look like the next for like the first quarter. Like they just seemed kind of overcharged. And then they settled down. But probably more out of character moments

within this game for them than at any point in this series so far. And so if you're thinking that this could be a C change moment for the spurs, that would be the proof of it right there. So you've finally kind of rattled the seemingly ungradable team.

Well, they know they have six guys that can trust. They have figured out this Wemby timeout strategy to kind of keep them on the floor a little bit more when it actually matters. They know they're getting wide open threes.

“So I think they, now they're just going to compete.”

And they did some stuff with towns that I thought was different than what they did the first two games. So they did use cast on them. Yep. They tried Brian on them a couple times.

They tried different people to trap them. They seemed to me like they kept trying to mix things up

on them so that he never felt really comfortable.

The bridges thing was huge for them, though, because he got the two thousand most immediately. Never got going 20 minutes, two points. And that was their best shooter. Which game is that?

Game one or game two? He had that one. I think he was great one. He was a great game. Two is held though, like playing with the bench

and gave them some really critical lift in that one. They need Mikhail Bridges. I know that's a pretty straightforward thing to say. But particularly during those stretches where Brunson and Or Towns are out,

he's one of their most reliable ball handlers. It can't all be Jose Alvarado and somehow Jordan Clarkson. Like I'm still shocked that we got honest to goodness positive Jordan Clarkson minutes in the NBA finals.

LeBron James couldn't get that out of him in the finals. Yet here the nicks are. I wouldn't bet on that happening again. Like they need Mikhail in those stretches more than anything to be a ball handler, to be a shooter,

to be a facilitator for their offense too. Two days from now we're playing again Wednesday. Who does that help more? I don't know. Do you see a tilting advantage just based on that timeline?

I feel like that's a pretty neutral one.

“The only thing I would say is the Wemby piece.”

Just from what we saw in the last series, when there was the one day rest between the games. He had a couple of games that OK, C-Series, which were just strange, where he just seemed like he had concrete sneakers on.

I thought he was, I mean, we probably should have talked about him earlier than just now. I thought he was really good to us. He was, 'cause the nicks now know not to challenge him on certain things, so whatever he had three blocks,

but they're just so aware of him at all times. And I thought he was prowling. They really figured out a way to unleash him all over the place. They were hiding him on different guys. I think they learned their lesson with trying

not to put him out 25 feet from the basket on towns too much. And then offensively, he was near the basket

in the first three quarters more than he used to be.

So I thought he actually could have had even more than 32 points. He missed, they had the three taken away. He missed a couple shots around. That easily could have been a 40-point game for him. I think not only the timeout stuff you mentioned

in terms of just finding ways to keep him on the floor for longer stretches, but finding ways to decrease how much he has to do all the time. Turned out to be really important. You saw the spurs, makes it a little zone.

You saw him like experiment, which is like, what happens if we have one beyond Landry Shamit in the corner, Mikhail Bridges in the corner, O.G. and an O.B. in the corner. How do we keep him out of the action?

And then on offense, how do we make it so that when he goes to set a screen, he doesn't have to go from the block all the way up to half court every single time to set a high ball screen, because Stefan Castles having a hard time getting at across the line or whatever, like those are little things,

but when you pile him up over 40 minutes, all of a sudden, you're fresher in the fourth quarter. All of a sudden, he has more to give you down the stretch. And he can be more assertive getting to the basket over and over and over.

Because you make these other parts of his life a little bit easier. - Brunson, 83 points, 81 shots, in three games.

I did find myself a little surprised by Kat has been awesome, but the prevalence of Carl Anthony Towns should be the finals MVP if the series ended today, coming off of one and two, I get it. I understand the logic.

I just don't know how we fall into it so soon, after like the Andry Aguadala Steph stuff. Or it's like, do you reward the guy who drafts off the attention or do you reward the guy who creates the attention? And Jalen Brunson draws everyone's eyes.

Everyone's focus when he's on the floor. Like he's pouring this much despite being clearly the number one item in the scouting reporting, getting all of the defensive focus, but also the traps that we've seen throughout this series. Like I don't know how he does this, frankly.

And I remain just shocked and amazed at how impressive he is night to night. - You were preaching to the choir. - Right, I'm glad. - On two topics.

One, I look, I know we all have to make content. We often come up with angles and do topics. We cannot have segments about who's the finals MVP after two games.

“In a game where you have to enforce a win this series,”

not to mention the series might extend past four games. I'm just, it's unacceptable. You could say, wow, towns is playing like a finals MVP, but you just can't do it. So that's one thing, just stop, I don't want to hear it.

I don't want to engage with it, stop. Second, what you just said about Brunson and the Curry Aguadawa thing is one of my passion points in life.

The best part should always win finals MVP

unless something fucking crazy happened, right? If Curry Aguadawa is a good example, and I think Curry should have won it either way, but it's like, yeah, all they're doing is worrying about him for six games, there's all of these positive effects

that just come from having this guy that's this good out there. You have to be the MVP. I felt the same way about Tatum two years ago. - Yeah. - Brown took it, but Tatum did the most on the Celtics,

like he should have won finals MVP. He was the best guy in the deciding game, and had the biggest responsibility. And for some, you know, the dumbest was when Parker won in '07.

“I think that when I actually makes me matter the Niguadawa,”

where Duncan's just the best guy, he's the reason they won the title, he's the reason they've, and but Parker had a hot series against a crappy finals team that's like, our finals MVP is Tony Parker.

It's like, Tim Duncan's the most important athlete.

What are we doing? - That's probably some offense defense bias too, with, you know, like the guard who's driving a lot of stuff, naturally gets a lot of attention as those go. So there's a lot in play with Tony Parker for sure.

- Yeah. Let's settle it now. - Brunson and Wemby are the two best guys in this series. - Yeah. - And whoever wins, they should win the MVP. - I mean, if I'm not mistaken, Carl Towns,

I'm not trying to drag Catherine the Muddy's, but amazing, thought he was great defensively again today, despite Wemby getting some impressive numbers, I don't think he has scored a basket in the fourth quarter for the entire series yet.

- Is that true? - Certainly scoreless in the fourth tonight,

“and I believe he was in games one and two as well.”

- Well, ironically, finals MVP has not moved Brunson and Wemby are the two favorites, Brunson's even. For the series itself, the next are now minus 184 on Fandole. So, game four wins the night,

which was gonna be exciting either way. It was either gonna be the classic,

somebody's up to won, game fours are always amazing.

- Mm-hmm. - They're usually by favorite game of the series unless there's a game seven. So we either had the next, trying to win their first finals in 53 years,

or we have this awesome setup for game four. If you had the guess, the biggest tweak, one of the two teams is gonna make, what is it? 'Cause I'd probably leaning toward the next side on the tweak.

- I don't know what they're gonna see any dramatic tweaks, though. - You think we're in? These are our cards? - I think these are mostly the cards. I think the lineup's gonna remain the same.

I think the coverage is in the matchup, so they're gonna remain mostly the same. It's gonna be little stuff, right? It's gonna be like one little tweak in this game that I thought made a big difference was

in the first quarter, especially when Wemby would go up to set ball screens, he would actually set a screen versus doing his little, I'm gonna hold that my hands and sort of hip-check you maneuver. And it turns out making contact on the screen really helps.

And then all of a sudden, the cards are getting downhill and it's driving the entire offense. So there's gonna be some like that, right? Like little things that pop on film. In that regard, I would think for the next specifically,

it is how do you create some airspace for cat during those stretches where the offense comes up? How do you make it? So, I mean, this is what's hard when you wanna give the ball the towns and run off this off-ball action

and it's been working so well for the next in these playoffs. If the defense and the spurs are good enough to do this can somehow bat and down all the hatches and keep all those guys under wraps, you're just like bleeding clock as he stands there

And so it's like, how do you get a little more free and clear

movement where there's something popping up and you're not driving all of those possessions into 20 plus seconds on the shot clock? - Yeah, that makes sense. I would say, shamit, 23 minutes today.

It was a minus 20, it was one for eight, one for seven from three. Probably a quicker trigger for him next time would be, I was really surprised Bridges didn't play more in the fourth quarter. And I thought I actually thought he had five fouls.

And I was texted with Nick's fan friend of mine who said he had five and I looked it up and he had four and he finished with four.

“But I don't know, I think I think game four to me”

is a ride with our guys game. But this is all five of those guys are gonna be at 40 or around 40 minutes with and then the bench will fill in the rest. But I think that'd be my prediction,

but especially two days off and the Saturday game. - I think it makes total sense to ride with three guys at this point. I would just argue the Landry shamit is one of their guys. Like he's a hero of New York.

He's earned the right to go on the floor in these moments. And yeah, I wouldn't say this was his best game by any stretch, but they do need his gravity. They do need the attention that he draws. Mikael can do a lot of those things too.

And so if that's the trade-off, yeah, I agree. It can be a little steep sometimes. - So what would you tell the Nick fans right now who were up to nothing in the finals coming off a miracle winning game too

with an emotional game three that was the hardest ticket, probably in the history of B&B I, I'm guessing. And now it's two one and game fours on Wednesday and all those old skeletons are starting to bounce out of the Pults of Guys Pool again.

“What would be, how would you calm them down?”

I would tell the Nick's not that they need this reassurance, but in any game, I expect any close game, I expect them to win. Like I expect Jalen Brunson to pull every like crazy one-footed fade away that he needs to make

in order to keep these games competitive. OGN and OB hit a crazy corner three to trim this thing to win a bull eight. The spurs needed both the castle jumper and the Fox jumper just to win this one.

Yes, the margins are thin. Yes, crazy things can happen under those circumstances. But every indicator says this is a very, very close clutch time kind of series. And the Nick's are the clutch time kings of these playoff.

So what reason would we have to doubt them even after a game like this? - That's fair. - And if I'm the spurs, my spurs fans, I know a few of them too.

The series should be one and a half to one and a half. I don't think it works that way. - Well, it doesn't. So you lost the half for that two one. - Yeah.

- You were double figures in all three games. You had the lead in the last two minutes of all three games. Your young team actually kind of came through with some big moments and ramped up the defense

in a really, really special way in the second half.

And feels like it's getting better and is now used to the speed of the next and the finals and just all of it. And seems like just in a better place than they were in game one when they just seemed like,

whoa, whoa, the finals is fast. Wow, look at this. I thought they handled the speed the right way today. So I'm the spurs, I'm like, fuck it man, we have five and seven in home, right?

We just need to get back to seven. So we just need to in two of the next three and then sevens at our house. - We just need to, we need to two to. All road wins going into a game five.

Like that's all we can hope for. - What if what's ever happened? - I would, I guess that's happened in '77 'cause that's what, oh no. Yeah, that's what happened in '77.

- More than one, the second two.

Oh no, that was important though. - Yeah, no, I don't think that's, I don't think that would ever have happened. - Seems pretty unlikely. I mean, there's been plenty of like,

O2 series that have flipped and reversed course in the NBA finals. Like, Miguel Bridges has been a part of one of them. You know, the, the maves that it against the heat and O6, they were up to O and blew that series.

So it's like, it has happened. - For usually your home for the first part. - Exactly. - That's the thing, it's not all road. All road wins for now three and potentially four games,

but even that's getting ahead of ourselves. So, I've been saying this all playoffs, Rob. I don't think home court matters like it used to. Even though it's fun to give the game home court, even, I don't remember risk of hard to taste home court.

- Even when you have Larry David sitting next to Bob Craft that is our Emmanuel and Mark Shapiro. And then you have, would you have shallamae next to Spike Lee with Safty and this was, this was a real like BS pod where you watch a bull's murder.

- Tina Fey was there. - Yeah, there was, there was Tina Fey's next to Tracy Morgan. I was, I thought for sure we'd get Laura Michael tonight. - Maybe for game four. - I saw Irving A's off under the basket.

It was like all the OGs and then you, you know,

“Dolan who I think usually watches from the stands.”

But if Trump's like, I'm coming, it's the president. - Yeah. - You kind of can't say no. So now he's in a sweet and I'm sure he's like,

but getting cocked in your own building to go sit with Donald Trump, it's tough."

“- It is tough, but I think from the home court standpoint,”

I don't know what's there for an about it.

I always felt like when I was growing up

and especially like being a Celtic fan and some of the games we had, like I just felt like it was a must-win game when we were winning. - Yeah.

- And we could affect the raffs. It just, you would have the moment time and it was just the way it went and the stats back it up. Like for years and years, it was 90-95%.

And now we see all this time. You're just going to somebody else's house and you can win whenever you want. I don't really understand it. - I don't know what is tilted.

Other than clearly, there's just like a lot of great competitive balance and talent around the league, but why that would explain the shift in home court advantage. I don't exactly know, maybe it is just like travel as a group. - Is it the three-pointers?

- I think the three's help. But this didn't feel like a game that was swung by spurs hot shit. - Yeah. - I'm just trying to think of all the different reasons that could swing three-pointers would be one. The travel being so much better, you know,

than it was in the 70s, 80s and really through the 90s. - Mm-hmm. - The fact that we know more about our bodies when you're on the road and things to do and not to, - Yeah.

- Maybe don't have, you know, steak and fried chicken and cheeseburgers at three-third in the morning. - Might be part of it. - We know that stuff. - You think Dordash has saved as a swastone court advantage.

It's too reliable to get a Chipotle bowl now. You can't, you don't have to worry about the Michael Jordan like stomach virus from pizza anymore. - Right. - Well, you have that and then you have,

you know, when you think about the way all the shooting motions were different in the 70s and 80s, you guys do in this. Now, everybody's often assembly line with the way they shoot. - That's true. - So the technique is more reliable than it used to be.

I mean, the thing that I must code the spurs tonight was the free throws. - Oh my gosh. - Get down the stretch day when 10 for 10. And then Castle, I wish we had mentioned this earlier.

We both met in the building when somebody has huge, huge free throws. The most famous ones I ever remember from this was the two that Kawai had during right for the Ray Allen shot. - Oh yeah.

- And it's the first one you made the second one. But sometimes when it's like,

“you have to make both of them and you're on the road.”

And the crowd can go to this level. And it almost feels like they're invading the guy's body and it's so loud. And when you're in there watching and you're like, I don't understand how he's gonna make these.

Like this is the most pressure I've ever seen any one of my life. And Castle, who they ran the play for, they invited a Foxy through a right back to Castle. That was their guy and he fucking drained them.

And it was awesome. - I feel like we have mentioned a lot the shot that he hit to kind of like give the spurs the winning cushion and maybe not enough about, I mean, his physicality on these drives

is unbelievable. He's so elusive. Like he's kind of constantly in a state of Eurostep

as he gets to the basket, like always decelerating,

always kind of challenging you to stay down and not jump so he can bait you into a foul. I just thought his drives were exceptional, especially in the first half, but late they needed him to,

like they needed somebody who could bust through even tough competitive perimeter defense. And when the game is officiated this way, Stavunk has been absolutely do that. Like he will dish out as much punishment

he will take and he will somehow convert a lot of those opportunities. - He does this one move that I'm not positive I've ever seen anybody do consistently before. When he goes right, he drives right in the chest

and takes a step and usually you stop 'cause there's a guy there. - Yep. - But then he just takes like this delayed second step and just puts it up anyway.

And like one time they blocked it today, but there are other times when they just, I don't know how he does it, but he's just, you can't, he's almost like a running back

who moves the line forward every time he goes into the line.

On those drives, he's never losing the contact.

He's always like going toward the basket. I thought he was great today. I was a little concerned about his 2011, 12 range Westbrook range. He's got a little of that.

I got this guy and it's like, no, no, that's the time. But he was great today. - And not just like, I got this guy's, but he is good right now. He's playing tremendous defense on-browns

and in particular all the ball, but like really, really high level stuff. And he'll come up with you, Dree Bounds, huge hustle places doing all that. He will also, at one point in literally every game,

commit one of the dumbest fouls against the three points sure do you have ever seen in your life. And so like, you just have to live with it and you just have to accept that in the balance, OGN and OB is gonna get three free throws,

but you're gonna get all this great defense

“and this great driving and this important scoring.”

He just is so much for them. - Yeah, it's like I feel the same way about my dog, Murphy, we were having a great day today. - Yeah. - Preparing, I was preparing for

Rewatchables tomorrow, taping, preparing for this pod. - So wonderful day, and then all of a sudden he just walked right into the pool. And it's like, why'd you do that? And he's like, I don't know, I don't know, I did it.

and I didn't let it mar the day for me.

- There you go. - So, yeah, I think we hit everything. Prediction for game four. - Do we have to if we've just been wrong in this entire playoffs?

- I did not make an official prediction. I did bet on San Antonio today,

“but I had a fandal bet, which I think I lost”

'cause I think Harper missed a steal. But I didn't, I honestly had genuinely had no idea it was gonna happen tonight. There was like five different scenarios and I would have believed all the scenarios,

including San Antonio, just getting waxed. - Yeah. - And at halftime, I was exactly racing to live at the spurs, right down seven. It felt like the next kind of had it.

So, so there would be no Trump, but it'll be a lot easier to get into, guess. - Yes. - A lot less of a circus, and if on the next, I'm hoping Wendy's a little more tired than it was today.

- It could be, if forced to pick, I think the next will win game four. I don't feel great about it. I think they will win game four. As someone who would love to see a two, two,

game five, I hope that's not the case, but I don't know. I just, I have come to respect so much about the way New York answers, basically any challenge,

and there was forcefulness in terms of their playmaking and the way that they will tap into. Like, I just fully expect Mikael O'Bridge

to come up with like 18 critical points in game four,

and cat to be a really important playmaker again. And Landry Shamet's shooting to come back on track. It's just kind of what they've done. So, if I have to choose, I think that's what's probably going to happen,

but honestly, who can trust any of our predictions at this point? Do we pour one out? I'm not going to actually move one of my deaths for the next April 23rd was their last loss.

It's now June 8th. June 8th, 15th anniversary of the day we launched Grant Land by the way, shout out to June 8th. - Congrats.

- Thanks. No longer exists, but it was a great site that I love very much. But yeah, April 23rd to June 8th and legendary streak. Here's, this is not a prediction.

“But this is what I think will be the key to game four.”

I think that spurs open threes are going to be even more open in game four. I think from what you've seen, when you look at what do we have? We had FOX 0 for 5, Castle 2 for 5, Harper 1 for 8,

Kelden Johnson wouldn't shoot any of them. Champenia and Vessel were 6/11. I just think they give those guards those threes and play off the ball, go way under the picks, and guys, we don't think you can make these,

knock 'em down for us. And if the spurs knock 'em down, they're going to go back to two and if they don't knock 'em down, they're going down three one.

- Yeah, that is kind of the crunch when the spurs do play their three guards together. And they seem to like closing that way, at least for part of the fourth quarter and crunch time if not the entire time.

- That's good. - A lot of ball handling, but if all three of those guards are not defended, and I would say at minimum, they're not defended in the way

that Vessel and Champenia are. Like the next hug those shooters a little bit more than they do, Fox and Harper and Castle. But having two of those guys off the ball, if you're going to play all three guards together,

that's a lot of crunch. I don't think it's an accident that the spurs, even though they have all that ball handling and they were able to make some things happen, also didn't have any real flow

in terms of like getting an actual downhill drive that didn't kick doubt into something on a lot of those possessions. - And they were playing way off Harper was kind of in front of the nicks bench down the stretch,

they were just playing way off and they didn't really care if he shot, they wanted to funnel him towards towns anyway. Spurs only had eight turnovers and 28 assists. - That's the one. - I think the 16 turnovers in game two,

all that driving, all of that play, like working through pressure, eight turnovers is just unbelievable stuff. - Shout out to Steve Carr who loves nothing more than a lot of assists and low turnovers on a box square.

I'm sure he's gonna look at this tomorrow and be like, "Wow, 28, mate, that's wonderful, I love it." But yeah, if they're gonna have less than 10 turnovers, and they're gonna have 32 free throws, you're probably gonna send the ruin.

All right, Rob and honey, what TV show am I? What TV show? Oh, Dr. Rivers texted me and wanted to mention

that they finally pulled the Wemby on Josh Hart.

- Yeah. - That he was pushing for that little service.

“What TV show should we watch between game three and game four?”

- Definitely what it was, babe, which is great. Although it seems like you have more mixed impressions so far. - I'm gonna give it one more episode, I'm too in. - You know what's starting right now, though, that definitely as my attention

is this Cape Fear remake on Apple TV. - Sob both, sob both episodes. - Oh, just you wait for three. - Yeah, things are getting very spicy, very interesting. If you like a little bit of trash in your TV,

which Cape Fear certainly is, I just think you're gonna have a great sweaty, Georgian time with it, so come along for the ride for that. - What we're doing from how rewatchables right now, and the show does check some of my boxes.

Most importantly, the really stupid,

And in this case, both of them are really stupid and just seem oblivious to a lot of things

that are happening, which I always enjoy.

- You got dumb, you got dumb parents. You got outright stalking. You have a lot of like ominous dead animals. - I mean, what work could you ask? - You've severed digits, yeah, it's good, I would,

when I saw they were making it, I was like, "Oh, why, why are we, come on, why?" But then, score says it's an EP, they got anti-shagger, and lead guy, good to see him again, he must have survived the car accident.

But yeah, no, it was good, I liked the first two episodes. All right, Rob Mahoney, this was a true pleasure and a privilege to stay up late with you. - Likewise. - In three, we're gonna take a break,

and we're gonna come back with your friend Kyle Mann, we're gonna talk about being a draft right after this. - This episode is brought to you by Mikhelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. My favorite NBA finals moment ever, wife two.

One was when I was six years old, and I went to the famous triple overtime game in 1976, Boston versus Phoenix, that's the Celtics one and became, I still think the most famous NBA game of all time to do that are one of the Jordan Games.

I like to claim it as the most famous since I was there, but the other one was Game Five, 194 finals, two two, Laker Celtics, and it is so hot in the Boston Garden that people are passing out in the stands, everyone's sweating all over the place.

The Lakers are taking oxygen on the bench and Larry Bird unfaced.

“I think he had 35 points, 20 rebounds was just awesome.”

And won the game, given them the three two lead. They won in seven, and that is my favorite finals game ever. There's a lot of great moments. I was lucky to be there, by the way. There's a lot of great moments in the court,

but the best ones are served cold, just like Mick Lobocho, right here. A superior light beer that's only 95 calories. Yeah, 95 calories, even better. They're getting people closer to the game

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open to US residents 20 and plus, begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 38, 2026. Multiple entry periods see official rules at MickLobocho.com/CourtSight for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes, and details.

It's finally here, the NBA Finals Spursverse.

Next, each game, I've been looking at the matchups and sharing my favorite picks from Findo's Sportsbook on my Twitter feed, usually a same game, parlay. Usually tied to, if you think one of the sides

“is gonna win, here is what I think the road map,”

would be, so we'll say, I definitely have 48 hours to think about what happened in game three, and how that might affect game four. Stay tuned on Wednesday for the pick. When I bet, Findo will brand-out trust,

it's easy to build NBA bets on Findo, super duper easy. Easier each year, 2020, easy to hear it's ever been. I know I'm getting great odds, payouts on my parlay's boost every day, and I'll get my winnings instantly, Findo will play your game.

All right, Jake Alman is here from the ringer. He is on the ringer NBA show. He is one of the many good people that help with our ringer NBA draft guide, which I love, we're two weeks away,

plus a day, Palman. This is some draft. I've changed my opinion on the order of the top four, 17 times. I have no idea who's going fifth or picking fifth.

I've no idea what OKC is gonna do with 12 and 17. We have no idea if the bucks are gonna have 10 and 13 if they trade you out of some time. What's the biggest up in the air subplot to you? That's not one of the top four picks.

Oh, I mean, yeah, you said you've changed your 17 or I'm probably gonna, if I can be shy of like 25 changes at the top, that'll be good, but aside from that, I can't, 'cause I'm gonna state some strong opinions that I have that might still change.

I think the biggest thing, and I think this is probably you've been doing this longer than I have, but inevitably you start thinking about the playoff lens, specifically if you think of being in the NBA as a poker table where there's a buy-in,

like what has it cost to sit down at this table? What does it take? I think that these playoffs, specifically like if you just watch the thunder and the spurs and you imagine those teams are gonna be around for how long some form of those teams

dominated by these big guards,

these incredible rangey bigs.

I think how this affects these guards at the top, 'cause we have talked about this assumed order where we're like, well, you know, in the next guys that you gotta take, and you look at every mock draft, it's like, you gotta take one of those guards,

“you have to do it, there's a gun to your head,”

and the more that I watch these playoffs, and I see guys like Shay or Stefan Castle or Dylan Harper bulldozing every living breathing human

who is not gonna get picked on?

It's a question that I've asked myself a lot when I watch these guys when I watch the Kingston Flimming who I love, when I watch a Liberian file on, who I love, when I watch a Darius A-Coff, you know, who I like a lot of my problems with A-Coff we can talk about,

but that's the biggest thing I've been thinking about is like, who's not gonna get picked on? Because in the playoffs, man, the links of your chain, if you have one that's weak, you get a big problem, and that's kind of what's been on my mind

with these guards lately. - And also where are we gone wrong in the past? - And I think Castle is a great example where you only have one year to watch a guy, he's on a great team that didn't really need his offense

that much, he was relegated to a role. People overlooked some stuff with him, especially the pedigree and he ends up going forth, which is just nuts when you go back and look at that draft out. It's insane, I look at Mara like that, the center,

which I've seen in different mock drafts, they'll be in the mid teens and some, and people will be like, well, I just don't think there's any way he's not a top 10 pick with what we're watching, with how many guards are in this draft,

and you can't tell me that every team needs a guard. At some point, somebody from 8 to 10 is either that's picking in those spots or is gonna try to trade up to those spots, because they don't really need a guard.

Like, okay, see he's a great example. Okay, see he doesn't need another guard, but they need somebody like Mara is somebody that could actually potentially play for them and give them heart and sign insurance.

So, I just feel like he's going to 8 to 10, and I feel like one of these guards is gonna drop, because this is what we've seen. The cluster theory, I've seen five,

“I looked at a mock today, I think it was Sam Vesoney on a,”

Vesoney or Vesoney, that's gross. - I've seen Vesoney. - Sam Vesoney, Sam Vesoney, Sam Vesoney.

- And Vesoney hasn't corrected me his first three years.

- No, that's my pronunciation, pronunciation dyslexia. Sam Vesoney had filing, I think, dropping out of the top 15, it's gonna happen with one of these point guards, and we're gonna think it's crazy when it happens.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Well, think about it, how many teams are like, all right, this is an awesome draft. This is a real pedigree pick, and I don't need a guard. Why do I have to take file on, I don't know.

I just think weird stuff's gonna happen when we get out of the top four, and that's before we get into all the trade-up trade-down stuff, which I think is really in play this year. - Well, this might interest you

because you're one of the basketball reference filter, officially an auto, as I know you love to go on these dive. - I did, I went on last five playoffs, so going back to, you know, the warriors started bringing this up, but the warriors went over the Celtics

in 2002, I hope I'm not fired for doing that. But over 100 minutes played for guards who are six two or under, some of these guys were listed at like six four, and we saw that there were some smoke and mirrors with that.

But the players who are productive at that size and the playoffs for multiple games for a heavy minute load, it's not a long list. You're talking about guys who kind of get cups of coffee, who are quick in and out.

I mean, you could go down into the shooters, into the montaimours, into the, you know, Fred Bambliates. But really you're talking about high impact players, it's Steph Curry, obviously. It's Peyton Pritchard, who, you know,

Jalen Bronson, Donovan Mitchell, Tyre's Maxi, John Moran. And if you kind of go through and look at those guys,

“it's like, well, what's the common denominator there?”

I think it's that you, if you're gonna be that size, you need to have a superpower. I mean, and the question I've been asking myself is like, could we see those superpowers when these guys were coming out or did we just miss them, you know,

with Bronson, I think there were some things that we missed, even though I liked him, like some of the things that we're gonna translate for him. Peyton Pritchard, I think I missed a lot with him. His ball handling, you as a Celtics fan,

what is his handling really is his superpower, right? He's become a good shooter. Is there anything else that you would say? - I would say the 101 skills. I just think we fucked up the Bronson thing.

And I'm 99.9% sure I went kind of haywire about it

during the draft that he fell out of the first round.

But just because he was just a pure awesome point card. Like he couldn't tell me he wasn't a rotation guy for somebody. And I did, like, that just seemed like a classic overthink, but I see your point with the size though. A career at Wooden Count, 'cause I think Curry is at least,

I've stood next to him, he's at least six, three. I don't know what he's listed at, but I don't know, he found, I thought he was at least two, but... - I thought he was at least two inches taller than me, but I also feel like he's a little stronger, like,

I don't, A cuff to me is the one for this conversation. 'Cause if you're taking him, you better think he is a, really, really high-end special offensive guard.

“That's the only way you can justify putting him”

in the top seven. You'd think he's like a 25, 80, 40% three-point shooter, really uncoverable at the end of games, where teams are gonna have to trap on that. That would be like the road map for him being worth that pick,

- Well, I think the line of question you have to go into with A cuff is, we all kind of know about the defensive stuff. That's been well documented if you watch him. You could pick at him for the physical issues, where it's like, I've kind of wondered if he's literally very mobile,

if he's gonna, he's not like a super vertical athlete, things like that. He's gonna get attacked. Bronson is good of a player. Bronson's very competitive defensively,

and he still gets attacked. He does what he can. You kind of have to ask yourself, is this something that was a bug of this Arkansas team this past year, where he carried one of the biggest offensive loads

in the country, he was the only guy on their team that was capable of making a consistent good decision. He ran that team, and did he have to kind of rest on defensive times, to bonds. I kind of had the same thing going on at BYU.

Or is it something that he could just choose and we're overrating this, you know, we're maybe leaning into this too much. - Well, we're not overrating it. - We're not overrating it.

- Just to add on questions.

“- Yeah, yeah, no, I think it's a fair question,”

but the question is, is there other stuff so good? You just put it on the side. Everybody's got some flaws, right? Castle, even Castle, who I love, has that kind of Westbrook side,

where he's a little at a control at the worst possible times, and that's his flaw. I get more worried about a guy like Brown, and Brown hits, he's creeped up to five in the conversation for the Quippers,

'cause the Quippers are basically like,

we're not taking a point card. We just went all in on Garland. So unless we trade back, it's either Wagner or Brown or Burris, it's gonna be one of those three.

- And you're higher on Brown than most. You really like, you seem like you at least really like the ceiling. - Are you doing a little bit of a thing to me? - Well, you like the idea of him.

I just, but you also recognize the red flags. - I've kind of like worked through my cautious optimism with him through this offseason, because the regular season was just weird, man. I mean, like he was, you could go into the speculation

about why that stuff happened. I'm not willing to like openly just like, if you're gonna do that, you have to like throw people personally under the bus. I'm not gonna go that direction like right now,

but like if you watch him, his consistency is a shooter, can he get to the rim and score? I mean, those are the two basic things. And if you're gonna be the player type that he is and have big struggles in that area,

and then also are you gonna be vulnerable defensively? I think those three things are very much up at the air with him right now. And if you look at, I've compared him to, he's definitely in the like phylum of Amphony Simons

in Kiyante George for me, which is your face set a lot there. If he's gonna be an inefficient skinny guard who can't get to the rim and he's streaky from three, that's an archetype that's,

“you're gonna be like the third score on a team I think, right?”

It's hard to be the primary if you're gonna be that type of player. - My weakness is when I, I feel like I've been good at evaluating the draft over the years. So I've had more hits than misses.

My two weaknesses are when there's not enough kind of data slash tape on a guy in your projecting, like somebody like Wiseman, I just completely missed

on Wiseman, there was basically the employee games

and you're just basically looking at the prototype of him versus what he actually did. The other one that kills me over and over again is the raw talent could go with the way guy. I just tend to discount those guys.

They make me nervous. Like to me, I know Burris is gonna be good. I'm positive. I don't know how good he is. I don't know if he can be a lead guard

that can run your offense, 'cause we would have said with Castle, even the stuff he was doing in the two OKC games without Fox and with a compromise Harper, like I don't think anybody would have predicted

he could have done that two years ago. And I wonder with Burris, like I know that's like he's a prototypical too.

“Is he ever gonna be able to be people off the dribble?”

I'm just betting on that dude. I'm betting on the competitiveness. I think he has the right size.

And I think we always forget this with these young guys.

Like the stuff they're missing now might not be stuff they're missing five years from now. You know, they're gonna work on this and they're gonna try to get better and better at the things they're not good at.

I'm betting on that guy. So if I'm the clippers and it's between Woggler and Burris and I know what Woggler has the higher pedigree, I would just rather trade picks with Sacramento, pick up an asset and take Burris at seven.

I think that's a smarter move. - Yeah, if you look at these finals and you look at the western conference finals, I've circled back, I've like Burris the whole process, but I felt pretty validated in liking him a lot

and having him high watching these playoffs. 'Cause I think if you look at how you're building teams, I mean, if you have any kind of a weakness, if you look at just even like the nicks in the spurs, the spurs have a few weaknesses that the nicks are picking it.

You know, when the spurs came into this series looking at the nicks thinking there were some weaknesses

So I just think, and I've watched Burris

“and looked at these series and thought to myself,”

I could have seen him logging big minutes, not just minutes, like being seriously on the floor a lot. And that's under spurs series or this finals. And if you look at some of these other guys, I'm not sure about that with my Kel Brown.

You know, I'm not sure about that with Darius. It could happen 'cause Brunson is kind of in the same mold as Darius A. cuff, but I'm pretty sure about the Burris being on the floor. - I'm all in on Burris and A. cuff, the problem with him

is you worried that 20 years from now, he's a Darius A. cuff was a problem. He's one of those guys. And he basically played in five playoff games. The first five years of his career

but has this incredible five-minute Twitter.

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I think this center, I was really impressed by him in the tournament. I think his tape's really good. His passing is pretty special for his side. - Mara? - Yeah.

- Oh, yeah. - That kids pass on a rate. - Pretty special, like unusual. I just like him. And if, like if I'm at it, land at eight, I'm really thinking about it.

'Cause I don't really, I just committed to a,

I committed to Dyson 25 million year.

I paid Alexander Walker. I have Jalen Johnson. So at that point in a meter, if I go back in and I resine McCollum,

“which I think they're probably gonna do,”

I don't really need a point guard, combined with the fact that the point guard hit or misrate is pretty high whereas like a center. I felt the same way a couple years ago with Clingon, who everybody seemed just hesitant to take

in the top 10 for some reason. It's like, why? This guy's, you know, this guy's potentially a premier rim defender and I'm really good rebounder. Like worst case scenario,

this is a guy that's gonna be a 25 million dollar year player if he pans out and I feel the same way about Mara. I just can't see him dropping out of the top 10 with how few centers there are. - Yeah, he's one of those.

There's this funny phenomenon that happens whenever, phenomenon. It's just a funny thing that happens whenever I'm watching a player, like today I was watching Bruce Thornton from Ohio State, who's a little puck scoring guard

that you may learn about, you may not. He's one of these guys that may make it will see, but he's kind of a bowling ball, but they were playing Michigan and I was keeping an eye on Bruce Thornton. I kept getting distracted by Mara.

Like I was trying to focus on Thornton, but there was a play where Mara was on the short corner on the right side and he got double teamed and he reached blind around the double team and whipped it with his left hand to the opposite corner

on a dime. And I was just like, "God, it's hard to focus when the 73." And you start by clinging, and Mara's bigger than clinging, he's huge. So if we've entered this time too,

where you know, I always say with Wimbe,

you can't fight fire with fire with him because there's no one his size,

“but Mara is a better mover than I think he gets credit”

for he tries to dunk everything. He's got kind of a shot put baby hook thing that he does around the room, but he tries to dunk everything. He's defensively, really competitive.

I think for the hox, you'd be presenting some like spacing questions because you'd have Daniels out there in Jalen Johnson and you know, but they'd be big and they would just kind of bludgeon people.

So I mean, and defensively I think he's gonna be pretty good. So I'm with y'all Mara. I have him in the teens right now, but that could change, but how high before it becomes offensive to you?

Like anything higher than A to say would be pretty stupid, I think, right?

I think it's like, yeah, it's around there. 'Cause there's, I mean, it's not a sheer thing because we talk about Mara Watch last year who I had big reservations about and it's like he had some moments this year,

but it's not a sheer thing with him. It's those guys how well they move in space

“'cause I think Clingon didn't get enough credit”

for how well he could sit down and move in space either. So is Mara gonna be that good? I'm not so sure, but it's tricky for those guys to survive in space. Better in college.

Well, final answer, guys. It's gonna go five to seven picks later than he should and it's gonna be stupid. He's gonna a big chip on his shoulder. I'm just telling people that's gonna happen now.

The Tennessee kid has been circulating in the top 10. And again, I thought we were trying to provoke me over text with that feeling.

Well, as always, these kids are right around the age

of my son and my daughter and more sensitive than ever about being mean about NBA prospects, but like there was a Brooklyn story the other day about they might be interested in A-Man as high as six. And I just think that would be insane.

And I get it, it's pedigree from high school. He was one of the top guys heading into college. Season wasn't as good as you thought, but I just, I can't picture him in either of the three, either of the two conference finals we watched

or the finals we're watching now. I just don't think he plays. - No, yeah, him getting, he's a perceived shot maker who's incredibly streaky. Can he get to the spot he likes to get to?

He's really, really rough around the rim. And I was shocked by that report. I'm a one-hand out was shocked. And when I saw it, who was a tribute to two in terms of the team that was thinking about it,

I was like, this makes no sense. I wouldn't do this, created their thinking that. Okay, that makes sense. The thinking of putting him next to Yagor, who I like with conditions.

Like I like Yagor in certain narrow conditions. Like you're gonna have a guy who can, and I wanna get guys who are as unconditional as possible. Like you'd fit in as many situations as possible.

I don't wanna have an a role player that I have to have these very narrow circumstances that they work in. And if I'm gonna take five playing-making players who are all rough shooters one year.

And then take a six-nine guy who can't get to the rim and it's a shaky space or the next year. I don't understand, 'cause that was in the tweet.

“Wasn't it that Yagor and Nate Amit like fit together?”

I don't see that at all. I don't think that makes sense at all. Don't use your picks this year to make up for some weird sacrifices in the year. I do think that's a trade-down team with OKC though.

And I don't know what their appetite is for trading backwards. But if I could get 12 and 17 and I could get more stuff from OKC beyond that, basically make them pay 140 cents on the dollar. I would really think about that.

Because I like this draft a lot. And I think as we said, there's gonna be a couple guys that fall. And at 12 and 17, you might get a guy who won one guy at least two ends up better than the guy at six.

I normally don't like those trades, but I think this is such a unique draft. As long as you're not trading out of the top four, anywhere from five, 17, like who the fuck knows? It's gonna be like every other draft.

The big things that are shifting is there's booze at Romance, I'm in a real way now, that he might end up just going first. I think everybody looks at these tapes and the events metrics,

the comparisons to guys from over the years, it's just like, all right, maybe we don't overthink this. This guy is a 23 and 11 in the pros for 10 straight years. What's wrong with that?

- Yeah, well, I was gonna ask you, talk me through that you're Friday night when I initially sent that to you and Tate in the house where I was sitting over dinner and I just did like a thousand yard stare

where I was thinking for a minute, my wife's way in her hand in front of my face, like what do you think about? I was thinking about booze or where I had this epiphany where I was like, man, if the wizards

want to be a serious team in short order

“and make all that, not that you need to think”

about the players you have always,

but in this case, you would check both boxes. He would make every player that they have right now better instantly, I think. He'd help SAR, I think he'd make trade Johnson, cash on George, but Keerington, all those dudes,

he'd make them better. - Well, I mean, that was the conclusion I came to. Initially, did you, were you feeling that way and then you came to your hand at that go down? - I didn't love the barge madness watching him

where it just felt like he was one of those, let me put my head down and ram into the door over and over again, guys. - Right. - I didn't understand why he didn't have a 15 footer yet,

but then the more I thought about it is, well, in three years from now, he probably will, right? So we've seen him be able to bully his way to different spots. We've seen him be able to shoot from distance and he'll probably add the other thing.

The playmaking, the rebounding,

like the feel for the game, like he's always in the right spots.

And he's just, it's a weird thing to say, it's a weird thing to say is like a scouting report thing, but he just feels like a guy who's just been

Like, and he's just seen it all. He's not a, you know, there's some late bloomer guys to make it, but in his case, like, I just don't think he's gonna be phased. I could totally see him in the last month,

the basketball we watched and all of these different things. Like, you could argue, like, fuse on the spurs. That's the perfect guy you would want for them at the four next to Wemby, right? So, I've been thinking a lot because I do think the band

is gonna go first. Regardless of how we try to talk the booster thing,

it was that I just think he's gonna go first.

“I think Danny's such a wild card at second.”

And there's no way to predict it, and it's gonna come down. He's gonna take all the input from everybody, but it's also gonna come down. He's gonna be watching these guys, and he's gonna hone in on some sort of specific thing

that he's been able to do over and over again. He did it with Tatum, he did it with Brown, he did it when he was gonna take the rant. He over and over again, he looks at the high end talent guys and just is able to project them.

And you would think it's gonna happen Peterson, but I think there's too many red flags. I don't, I think he's gonna stay away from Peterson and I could see him take a booster, too, would be my, that would be like my, my one S 130 bet right now.

I might be wrong, but I really think they're gonna take booser. I do, I can't explain it. I think they're gonna take booser, too.

- You think the jazz are gonna take booser, too.

It's a really interesting way based on what, 'cause that would be going what we were talking about like just taking a guy 'cause you like him because it three, four, five, the jazz. I mean, you went out of your way to get Giren Jackson

and you have Larry Markin' in, you have Kessler, you know, Ace Bailey. I was thinking about Ace Bailey though. What do you think the comparing contrast there is such a way, like his situation last year at five? I mean, remember it's easy to forget that.

- I wonder you, they went for the talent, right? - And they were just, they were like, "I guess we know "there's a lot of noise around that." Eng just has a way of just being like, "I'm not." I kind of feel like he is a way of not being as bothered

by some of that stuff, right? Like he just kind of, weren't there kind of questions about Tate, Tate him having distraction around him, too, when he was coming in where people are like,

“"I don't know, you know, you probably remember that better,”

"but I feel like I remember hearing things about that "with Tate him when he was coming in." - Well, think about when they did the Tate him of Daryde had Jalen Brown and they had Hayward, right? So it's like, and when they did their trade down

they were going to take Tate him and was like, "Well, this is weird. "They're going to take another wing. "How many wings do you need?" But his attitude was, this is where basketball's going. I don't think you can have enough wings.

We're going to have awesome wings out there all the time. Well, at least two, we'll play three together and that's how we're going to think. So that's why with the Booser thing, I can't shake the feeling, I haven't my gut

that he's used to be like, "Well, we have too many forwards "and like we don't have enough guards." Well, is it a bad thing to have size and shooting all over the place and interchangeability and, you know,

if marketing would be the peace that I guess you would, you could potentially trade or move or move for a guard, but I think it's way harder to find good forwards and good guards right now. - Yeah, I mean, forwards with the skills that Booser has.

- The skill in all sorts is a premium, you know? - His dad also, sorry. - Well, that's the other one. They're under the hood with Booser. They're under the hood with Booser and to Bancet.

They know those kids, they know the families, like they, they know those guys would be happy in Utah, which is the whole other piece. And Peterson's like such a wild card and the season he had was weird.

What am I bringing in? What if he doesn't like it here? What happened to him last year? What was that creative team thing? If he takes Peterson,

then that will make me think Peterson is gonna be awesome. Because that would mean Danny's like, I've overlooked all these other red flags. I'm not gonna take this guy that I know

“is gonna be good, because I think this guy might be Kobe, right?”

So if they take him second, I feel like he would have to have landed on that. And I know it's like his son's there Austin and the owner's there. I know it's not gonna be Danny's call,

but they're gonna, he's too good at this. Like at some point, if he's convinced on a certain guy that's gonna, I think, be the guy that they take. - I think of the top three guys. I mean, Peterson's personality on his team

and his dynamic with his teammate is obviously the most in question. And this, you know, after the year that we just saw,

Boosier, you never hear a word about him as a teammate.

DeBanza, I mean, DeBanza, I haven't heard anything like that. I mean, you know, I know his dad's really involved. He's a real no-nonsense dude. But I haven't heard anything like, you just don't hear the same things about those two guys

as opposed to Peterson. So, I mean, if you say this, if you say this or make bad stuff about Peterson, there's just like, yeah, this is a way that can make or bring. - Well, I think Fultz is who's a completely different store

and a different guy is a good prison to look at this.

that set you back five years, you know? And you're betting on somebody that wasn't physically 100% and, you know, maybe wasn't wired the same way Tathem was and it worked out the way it did.

“So with Peterson, I think the Peterson one”

is the toughest dilemma in a long time with the high school tape versus what happened in the past year. And I don't know, I don't think there's a right answer. I don't think somebody can be five years from now. Like, I told you, like, there's no way to know.

It's too separate 'cause that high school tape we've talked about is some of the best high school tape I've ever seen in a guard. And maybe Danny would watch that and go. But the thing is, if Boozer goes to,

his Memphis, we're really gonna take Peterson three 'cause that would be weird too. Like, I think that I really think there's a chance Peterson go for him. And Gavoni was on somewhere

with saying like, Peterson is the best prospect

in the draft, he should go first.

I don't know, I could seem going for it too. It's such a hard one to target. - I'd go ahead and take him if I'm Memphis. I mean, you think about coward and Peterson together. Why not?

What's the, is there something that you, what are you worried about with him? I mean, he could come in and be your best player the way he wants. They have some guys there already.

I mean, it's a fun piece. - Is it Wilson the most Memphis guy possible? Although the maybe Boozer? - Obviously Boozer is the most Memphis guy.

“I think he has a lot of Memphis to him too.”

Yeah, Wilson doesn't strike me. I mean, we're just, you know, putting the personality of our franchise on a guy. I mean, Wilson doesn't strike me as much as Memphisy. But Wilson did the interesting one

'cause you'll hear people. - Well, I was told with Wilson, I was just talking about the guy fucking gives a shit and tries his ass off. And that's like kind of the culture they've tried to build over the last one year.

- I think what he's got to do. - So it's that's the thing, it's just, I think, you know, Peter said that about Peterson. That's, I mean, he was just, he was just leaving games and not coming back.

Like, I don't know, where I know weird shit was going on in the physically, but that's still a red flag for me. - And I pulled some people about the creatine thing and they acted like that was not kind of flimsy. I heard some really weird.

- That's what we're talking about. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's the most talented shot maker in the draft and I think he's the most talented score in the draft, I did, it's not close. But that, like we've talked about, you know,

he, you can't just draft a guy for talent because if we were just drafted and people for talent, it's your personality, your how you jive with your teammates, all those things matter, you know. And so, you know, I watched in Kentucky at a high school

then I watched AJ and Dearing go head to head and Dearing was better, like pretty clearly, not even close. I mean, you kind of dominate it and you hear stories from people who have watched many of those matchups and said, Dearing won every single time.

What do you think about that, you know? It's like he's gonna be an elite dribble pull-up shooter.

“I think he'll be able to play off the ball.”

He's a great middle game, he's a great athlete. Is he like a super duper elite athlete? I don't know, but he's a very good one. And I think he's a good passer. I think at times, guys have to make shots

for your numbers to look good at times. - Sounds like you're back in on him. Well, this is the this is the manning thing about these this top four is that I have gone back and forth over and over again. Right now, I'm kind of sitting at I kind of think

I would take Booser one. I know House once his his shot making, you know, sexy score, something to be excited about for the future. I think the most I'll say it again. I think the most efficient direct straight line way

for the Washington Wizards to be a great basketball team

is to take Booser first and I think they'd be good.

They'd be serious. They'd be like play in possibly by next year. I think that could be possible for them. - Well, you don't agree. (laughing)

- No, I. The bands have reclass, I'm at the mode now with the research where I'm doing reclassifying research, how the bands are reclassified after eighth grade. And he's actually, I think he's 10 or 11 months older

than flag. - I think they're like a month apart, if I'm not mistaken. - Is that what it is? - It's all done. - So flag flags December, 2006.

- Oh, you're right. Flag August, flag some month older than the bands. - Yes. - That's what it is, okay. - Do you worry about that much though,

because as a parent, these little boys, I mean, if you have that conversation about when you start, 'cause I used to think that was a big deal and you talk with their kindergarten teachers, it's just labor than you think.

It's like, some people, I mean, if you think your son's gonna be an athlete, I guess it depends on when they move them from grade to grade, but I don't know. I'm like, buries is a little bit older.

That doesn't matter.

- Yes, buries is second year gap,

but people are holding that against buries. - If he were a sophomore, would you give a shit?

Like, you know, it's not like their G.F.

- I didn't say I cared either way. I'm saying I'm at the point of the research. - Well, I'm doing the deep dive on other guys that have reclassified over the years, and it's like-- - I see.

- And it's like, oh, Josh Jackson. (laughs) - He was reclassified. (laughs)

“- I mean, the pattern was similar to Josh Jackson, right?”

- I mean, I don't know. - We're not Josh Jackson. I'm thinking of Josh Smith, Josh Smith from the Hawks Wilson-Lady there. - Well, regardless, I would be excited

to have the fourth pick in this draft, and I don't normally say that, because you're getting the chip on the shoulder guy, and other people are making the decision for you, and you might end up with the best guy anyway.

And this has to be one of the only drafts I can remember like that. Like, I wouldn't even felt that way at the Palo Chetchabari draft. This one, it's like, pack.

That'd be, you might be alright at four. Washington, Taken Booser at one, would be the funniest outcome for a variety of reasons. Not to mention the bands that go into Utah, too, immediately. And then nobody knowing what's gonna happen after that.

Your predictions, one through four, right now, two weeks away, what do you have? - What, what will happen? - What will happen?

“- In my opinion, your predictions are top four.”

- I think AJ Ogre first. I think Jazz will take Peterson. I've heard they like Peterson. I've heard Danny likes Peterson. I mean, we'll see how credible it is.

- I don't believe that, 'cause I don't, Danny doesn't reveal anything. - Okay. And then let's see. - So Peterson, Utah.

- And then you would have Booser third.

- Booser third. - Booser fifth. - Yes, he makes so much sense with the Grizzlies, too. - I mean, I've been unbounded about how come from, how come from Memphis? - Coward, Booser, E.D.

- Came Spencer, like that. It's hilarious that I'm saying came Spencer fourth, but no, I mean, they got an interesting group of guys. I think that'd be fun. And then Caleb with the bulls is,

that's a blast, I like it. Caleb with the bulls is really fun, right? Him, Buzellus, and Giddy just kind of going up and down unfortunately, all the guards that they let go in February would not be there.

What about our guy, Yaxel 11 with Golden State? - He might not make it to 11. - I've heard, I mean, I've heard talk of him as high as like seven. So, I mean, that could, I've checked in Sam's latest one,

I don't know where he had him, but people like, he would fit, they have a lot of force. I mean, that's the thing with Golden State. He could shoot the ball. He would fit the way that they like to play.

I could see that happening. - 'Cause that's your favorite part. - No, I think in Maro would be a great one for them if they ended up with 11, right? 'Cause the passing to me makes me think that

the passing in the pedigree of being in big games makes me wonder what that's upset with them.

“- Yeah, and you have to think about who you're going against”

'cause, you know, if they do think they have a chance to get LeBron in July, which I think they will, that's still my prediction, stood by for two months, then you have to think, well, what do we need? - Yeah, so far, if we're gonna have LeBron playing

like that same kind of three, four type of minutes. - Right, so. - Anybody drop in for you, Fleming's? So, Chancy drops out of the top 10 or is he right where he was before?

- He's climbing for me actually. I liked a lot of this stuff with him and so at the end of the day you bet on people, that gets lost in this. You know, these guys, these guys are as much as people loved to throw the analytics out there

and live life in a spreadsheet when it comes to the draft. You listen to Kingston Fleming's talk. I've just been blown away and pressed with how sophisticated he is. I'll say who he reminds me of a little bit. It's not one to one, but he gives me some real

hell of Burton vibes when I listen to that kid talk. And he looked away, he gets on and off the ball. The speed, they're like, we're not quite sure how he scores at the next level stuff that was talked about. He's not the same level of pass or the odd shot.

There are a lot of parallels between those two guys. And he just seems like he'd just be a quality ad. He's really strong. He might get picked on, but I like Kingston Fleming's. He's climbing for me.

- People like Johnson too, is the other one that everybody likes. And the interview is in the workouts, who seems like he's climbed into the mid-tints. And then Lopez is dropped. Lopez was being thrown around and like that seven or eleven range

for a brief second and now, it seems like he's out of the lottery.

- Well, we'll see what happens. Maybe next week, come back on. We could just just, again, we'll see if anything changes. With this is right around, I feel like there's going to be a big trade too soon. Because like, I just, I don't think that gets super close to the draft.

before game five, I think the league likes to clear out the first four games of the final,

and it's kind of a wink with the teams. But I feel like if there's going to be a big trade, I could see it be closer than in a week. And then, you know, Milwaukee, having a chance to get potentially 10 and 13. Not too much as much as the most other Miami guys. Like, that's not bad in this draft.

They might, you know, they too swings it at here. The other one that I forgot was that Charlotte is 14 and 18. - That's a big deal. - Right. - Especially with the guys who might be there.

- Yeah. So you could either say, "Fuck it.

We'll just stay here and we'll get two swings at this." Or try to move up if you're super excited about somebody. - All right, Kyle, man. We'll see how this goes. You've been enjoying the playoffs? - Oh, we did. - We're playing this before game three.

“A minus, B plus, what's your grade for the playoffs?”

- I would say my excitement level specifically for, you know, these last three series has been up there with some of the my highest excitement. This, this finals in particular, I'm just like Moonwalking around during the day. Just can't wait, just because I don't, I don't, I'm not a fan of either team. So I've nothing to lose and I just get to enjoy it.

So yeah, it's been, it's been great. I think it's been really fun to watch the next and San Antonio just as basketball teams. For different reasons, the next because they've played so beautifully together and San Antonio, I just like the guys in their team. I really enjoy the experience of, uh,

of watching them, which I haven't always said with the contenders.

You know, I had, I thought of something on a walk today that I wanted to run by you because

“you, I think you mentioned it in the mail bag.”

It's really strange that like the top six guys, I went back and was looking at the teams. We have young cores where guys are like really cluster together in terms of age. You the historian, how common is it to have a core that is all hitting their prime at the same time? They're like the next guy. Yeah, they're a top six guys. I looked at it are like, they're all born within a year and four months of each other or

two years and four months of each other for the next. Yeah. Yeah, they're all hitting their prime. That's really, is that I don't feel like that happens a lot. It's pretty unusual. All right. I don't remember what the ages were with the next and the late 60s or at least 70s, but I feel like they were all around the same because their careers seem to end all around the same times. But usually you end up with like a situation like Dallas where you have,

you know, you have vets, you have like the older Jason kid type, but then you have like Chandler to turn around the same time. And yeah, but there's a little bit more of a mix. The weird thing with with St. Antonio, the cluster of the younger guys, like even somebody like Carter Bryant being 19 being like the ninth man on the team. You know, they don't have like that 34 year old old guy bringing them out to old gunslinger or like even like the

steep car on 2003, they don't have any of those guys. Fox seems like the vet box is 2018 draft, you know? So yeah, it is pretty unusual. But part of it is because they didn't make the trade in

“February that I think they maybe would have made if they felt like this was going to happen.”

Like I do feel like they probably would have gotten some sort of physical stretch for something, just some sort of flexibility at that spot that they just, you know, I think they thought there were your way. All right, Kyle, man. We'll see you before the draft. Thanks for coming up. I'm pleasure. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rob Behoney. Thanks to Kyle man. Thanks to Gahound Eduardo as well. And I'm going to be back with you live after Wednesdays

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