An NBA Playoff Preview With Doc Rivers, Plus Nick Khan on WrestleMania 42 and the Next Big WWE Stars

We're also brought to you by the ringer podcast network. I had new rewatchables that went up a Monday with the basic instinct. kindergarten cop is coming next Monday. We also launched a brand new narrative podcast called the Gata.

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Doc Rivers, a dramatic return and we're going to talk a lot of hoops of him. We're going to talk about the word stuff, the season, the best part he saw in person, playoff matchups, what happened with the buck season, Janice, we go into all of it. And normally that would have been the podcast. But Nick Khan, a very important person with WWE in boxing, bull riding, all kinds of things.

Somebody had known for a long time, he came over and we did a wide-ranging talk on a whole bunch of things.

This is a massive podcast.

One of them mentioned the playoffs are starting this week and I do a fandoval better a little bit later. But I really wanted to take an upset, I love taking an upset every year, every year there is an upset. And I don't see the matchup for the upset this weekend.

Minnesota and Atlanta seem to be the two live ones to jump on and I don't, I just think Denver and the next are going to advance.

“The one, I think is the most interesting for, for, for an underdog pick if you wanted”

to get nuts, is the Lakers. Lakers in seven is 10 to one, Lakers in six is 22 to one and the Lakers to win the series is plus 530. I just feel like we're going to get look back before the end of this series. And if even if it's 21 after three, the longer that series goes on to think the worst

something it is for you some, I just think the odds are a little out of whack. I don't think Houston should be minus 750 against anybody. But we're probably going to go chalk for round one, but that's the only one I would look at. The other thing I want to mention, we got word today that Cade and Luca are now eligible for

first team on B.A. or second team on B.A. or MVP or whatever you want.

Because they were peel-plushed process work. So I'm just going to give you my ballot with the adjusted Luca. First team, Yoke and Gwemby, Luca, SJA, J.L. and Brown. Second team, Durin, Kauai, Mitchell, Kade, Brunson, third team, Chet, KD, J.L. and Johnson, Murray, Maxi, is what I'm going with for on B.A.

I have Luke as number 4 MVP, J.L. and 5, Wimby, 3. And I have not handed into my ballot yet. And I know I said on Tuesday I was voting SGA for MVP. And we cut a social clip out of it. And I am just agonizingly talking about how I don't understand why I'm not voting for Yoke

as one of the greatest offensive seasons I've ever seen in the greatest of his career.

“And yet also laid out the case why I think the vote has to be SGA.”

Maybe MBA not me because I should have already set my ballot in, Disappeal process dragged it out. I have not sent them my ballot yet. I don't know when the deadline is. I still don't know who I'm voting for from B.P. I've changed my mind.

I've had a conscious, uncoupling with my original SGA thing. I just over and over again, keep thinking, what in 10 years, what am I going to think? Am I going to regret doing this? Because there's been a couple of MVP picks I've regretted over the years. I'm just not ready to make a pick yet.

I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry, I already said I was voting for SGA. I apologize to the OKC fans and SGA and his family. I don't know what I'm going to do. And I'm just going to think about it for the next two days.

But it's up in the air. So that's what I got for you. All right, we're going to take a break. Bring in Pearl Jam. Talk basketball, Dak River, stick around for Nick Con.

Really good, actually packed, fun podcast next. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandle. The NBA postseason is here in Fandle.

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We're back. We're back. We're back. I did a little 2-1/2 year segue, you know, I told you that, but just going to make sure you go just humongous, still, but I don't know how many times.

Love you, man. It's like, hey, I like you as a coach when I really like you on the podcast with Bill. You got to get back and I'm like, okay, I got you here, so I'm back. Yeah, I'm taking advantage of you during the playoff, so at least a couple of times.

“Well, the best thing is getting you right at it, you're just coaching.”

You went and saw these guys. You wouldn't get saw these players. I want to go. We could talk about the buck stuff much later. I first time going to talk about Curry because you have real ties to that because your daughter

married into the Curry family and special emotional ties.

I was there last night, I took my son who had never seen, you know, a real step Curry

stakes game. He'd never been in the house for that. And the whole time I'm going, you know, they're down eight, they're down six, they're down 10. I'm like, Curry's going to make a run.

The Clippers crowd is going to get really nervous and it's going to be awesome. Just wait. And then he does it. That's because you're a Clipper fan and you see, you see that.

“Like, I feel it's just saying this because I've experienced that I could feel the anxiety”

through the TV from the crowd, like you can, you can literally feel it as, and it was great too because for most of the game, you didn't hear the going to say crowd at all. And there was a, how or for makes a couple of those three, because he's, it's going to stuff like that. He was amazing.

Yeah, he did. And poor Zingus kept them hanging around. He was going to, there was a little geese Santa, geese Santa was in there and then Curry did his stuff. And it was interesting that the way the, the way the into it is where they have the

wall. And it's all real Clipper fans, right? So the whole side of the arena is all Clipper fans.

The other side of the arena was basically all golden state fans, because they bought

in on that side. Yeah, I couldn't figure out where the noise was coming from. It was, it was to my right facing the, and so Curry gets going and when he hits that shot with 50 seconds left, which he knew was coming. And the way he goes with dream on now, it's like they have this crazy SP thing, and he

hits it. People in my section left, and they didn't leave because they wanted to be the traffic. They left because they were like, I've been doing this with the Clippers my whole life. I know how this game's going to end. I might as well leave now, so they were escaping like a horrible house.

It was rough, you know, it was such an interesting game because it was taken back and forth. Cali was at the game. My daughter. Yeah. And I text her at the beginning of the game, well, this is the rough start for Golden

State. And then in half time, I said, oh, they're hanging around. And then my daughter's last text was in the fourth quarter of it about eight minutes left. So if they hang around, long enough, the substance in the finish line, he's going to take it.

Yeah. That's exactly what happened. You know, what's going on in an interesting game? Because I really thought there are three or four times where Golden State was close to letting go of the rope.

You know, like it felt like, you know, man, they're trying. And then I'm telling you that the four or three is that our hole for it made. Yeah. It just changed the light. It changed the light.

And once it got to five and three, you knew what was at it. And I will say this, and in Dreyman, you know, I'm glad you didn't more like discussion about Dreyman.

It's amazing how many, this discussion that I've got into a by Dreyman, because I have

fought for him being a hall of failure, this whole, from five years now, like Dreyman's hall of failure.

“To me, yes, and you hear people well, the averages, what have he was on another team?”

He's a straight winner. Forget all the other stuff, you know, in last night's game, he was his defense was next worldly. That was surprising. But I actually thought at times he was, me fighting to get to ball every position, getting

bumped up to floor, I mean, it takes a toe. What probably very, really fights or plays against someone that's bigger and strong in to him for a whole game. And I thought the game took a toe on to why, and I thought it was Dreyman's doing. So I don't think I have to make the case in the last last day, because that's all Dreyman's.

And there's so many like Hall of Fame defensive role players. And Dreyman's in his mind is one, you know, there's certain guys that can do what they do at Hall of Fame level. And you know, Dreyman deserves his flowers. Yeah, it was interesting watching in person, because he was doing that from the first

minute. Yeah. And he was so intense and so crazy that I was saying on my son, like, I actually think it's 50, 50 he gets thrown out of this game, like he's two, he's too fired up. And it was like he was testing the reps early to see how far he could go, yelling at them

and timidating them. But he was really wearing down Kauai and I thought Kauai was tired at the end of the game. Normally play minutes like that. No, and that heart, minutes, not throughout.

“And if you want to be a great defender in NDA, you have to be stubborn as hell.”

You have to be hardheaded as hell because at the beginning of that game, Kauai was kicking his butt.

Kauai was scoring, he was in Dreyman, but I loved about it, it's Dreyman never waver.

It's almost like, okay, great. You score, keep doing it. Can you score it again? Keep doing it. I'm going to be right here.

Yeah. And by the end of the game, it was like, I guess I would be like, fight my home. And I'll be, after the five solid gap. Yeah. You're exhausted and you were down.

And that's how it felt like, you know, Dreyman just kept jabbing away, kept jabbing away, kept jabbing, and then by the end, Kauai was worn out, you know, and it felt that way. Well, you know, you talk about the great defenders of all time. Dreyman gets in your personal space in a really unique way and he takes these little steps to stay with you.

Kauai was trying to like almost move backward and get away with them and Dreyman just follows them. And I was thinking like, how many guys like that? And he's, because the best two guys I've ever seen perimeter defenders are pippin and Kauai, ironically, Dreyman's like, just a whiff under there.

But I still think for the non-seniors, he's got to be one of the five or six best non-centered offenders ever. Right? Ever. For sure.

I do think that it's Rodman.

Rodman's a third year, yeah, yeah, he would be, he would be the other one, like he,

would you put it with the island there? No, because he was moving off as a player when he first started. Yeah.

“You know, so I would not, but, you know, I remember Dennis Rodman playing, and I was, and”

I actually used to say this, I'd rather have pippin' Garby than Rodman. And that's, you know, that's a hell of a statement, because neither one of them, your days are not going to go well either way, but they both were just, just gritty and, and then this is more, Dreyman's more like Dennis, because Dennis got under your skin. Yeah.

It could just dark day. How lot of you? Yeah. He's probably fourth on that list, but it's a good, really good list. If you do in the right moment.

So, Curry, it was, you know, watching him, I don't think he's healthy, first of all. I think he's probably 85%, I would say. And kept readjusting his knee, which is a sign. There's a couple that car drives he did, where you want, and I don't know if the TV was picking this up the same day, but just watching his body length, you can really pick stuff

up there in the fouls when their stoppages and the eyes aren't on the players. Yeah. And you could just see him, like, kind of, stepping on it, seeing what he's telling it. Yeah. That's what we got in the conversation.

“I picked Curry, and I say, Curry is, is, is suffocate, right?”

But because he remembered that drive, and he had to pull hard, and he actually left the game and went back for the car. Yeah. Yeah. I was worried.

He didn't come back for a while, and I'm thinking, is he coming back? And then when he came back, he missed a couple of lands, he definitely was laborer. Yeah.

But it just, I mean, it just tells you how these guys are built, and I always say these guys

meaning the one for sinners, and the rest of the league is not. Because I don't know where he went in the third quarter, but he came out in the third quarter, and he looked different. He was playing his life, it's like the light bump, it came back on. There may be, because the quippers didn't put the game out of reach, and he saw that

man, we can get this. But even when you see that, very few people can reach what he did, but he was amazing in the second half. And it was always, there are certain guys when you watch this man, that's beautiful, how they play.

Yeah. It plays a beautiful game. That last place to be steady, because there's a misdirection football play. You know, he throws a ball and goes right, snaps back left, by going over the top, brook kind of picks off the guy guard stuff, and so if you watch it, the guy guard and stuff was going

underbrook.

it was going in, but to get to it, you know, like, listen, though, if I had a ball, if I

was in the game, and I did that, I was surprised to see him, because they were like, but the whole everyone knew or dream on a stuff, they knew exactly, and you still couldn't stop it. It just tells you how great he is. Well, I mean, it's stupid to say, but winning is a skill.

It is.

“I thought that's why they won the 22 title.”

I don't think they necessarily had a better team than Boston, but they just kind of like, oh, you're going to leave this hanging here for us. All right, we'll take it and courage just took it, which I think, you know, I don't know where he's right for historically for me when I have my pyramid that I do every year. And there's like this group of him and West and Kobe that are all next to each other.

And I think they're very, they have to be in the, in the clump together. And it's like the 9/10/11 range of the best players of all time. And each for their generation, they were the guy, right? And I don't, I don't even know how you calculate who was more important than who, but that there was. It's tough. It's tough. The thing with curry though that I don't even West

was like Mr. Clutch, Kobe had a bunch of great moments.

“There's something about what curry does to the crowd on the road that I think is unique”

to him. I can't think of any other players that do it like, maybe Ray Allen, who wasn't even nearly as good of a player as Steph, but something about when they're going, the crowd kind of gets, kind of, Ray, Ray, you know, they're had a little bit of that way. That's a good one. Yeah, when you got going, and it's mostly the jump shooters, but

Steph demoralizes the other team more than any of those guys, but Steph gets going. And he can turn a visiting crowd into a home crowd, which you, you don't see anybody. Maybe Michael, and the ability to do that. Michael, that's when I had the ability to do that. Yeah, I was kind of leaving him over here. I was. Yeah, yeah, he's over here. We're not even mentioned. No, but I've seen it like he takes the scene out of your team.

Yeah, when he gets going, I mean he's hopping around, you know, like, you want to kill

him. Like, if he had to, if I always said, if I was planning to get someone to kill him,

because he does things that you, you don't see, and they, it takes the win out of your sales. It really done. That three was a dagger. It was a killer. Well, he's doing that, that dancing, lefty flip, lefty flip. They're down five. It's like, what's that? So not so lot. Like, it's not. I think the most, the thing that people miss the most, except because he's this nice guy, right, he does all the charitable work. Everything

he says is right. Like, he's the most coachable star. And one day, we're going to have a part about that. Why Seth is one over some of the other guys? And because I'm a coach, I really believe a lot of it is because he allowed himself to decodes. Right. And I think that's part of it. But what we miss with him is he's a stone, whole-blooded killer. Just like, I'll be in Michael. He just doesn't come all that way. But he's exactly like them. And

people miss that with him. They miss forecasts him. His toughness and his grit. They really do. Do you think it's not going to be this year's team? Is there a world where he's ever

on a really relevant team again? Or is it too late? It's never too light. You know, it takes

one move. You know, you just need to have work. And you just never know. So you still think he could be, maybe not what he was in 22. But he could be almost like what you had with KG and Ray and Pierce. Yeah, I'm every one of the three. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But he needs help. Like, yeah, you know, I think the reason he's injured, then injured a lot this year's, he's been carrying a heavy load. Well, he's running so much even like yesterday watching him hurt,

“seeing the man running, he's doing just to stop and start stuff. That's what I'm so surprised”

that he's been able to say, you know, LeBron, his athleticism and size, you can see it. But because of the way Steph plays, I just, if you had asked me six years ago that Steph was still be doing it now, I would have said no way. There's no way. But if you watch his workouts and I'm sure you've heard about him, yeah, then you understand why he's in the condition. But even that at some point you think even that's going to wear him down. And so far it has. So who is the best player you went against this

Well, that's never been asked. No, that's a good question. When the, um, when I ride

it, that was the best player I saw in person this year, where I was like, wow, this is like, I haven't seen anything like this. Yeah, it's just so different. And he does so many things.

“You have to prepare for him differently than everybody else. He can't get behind you. Like,”

he literally cannot defensively, he cannot get behind you in the paint. If he does, they throw it up. And there's nothing you can do about it. Um, you know, um, you have to shoot his recovery. You can beat him off the drum with a free throw line, but you're not going to get it to shot off. Uh, you know, the new bow of your minimum new bow. Yeah. A new bow had that kind of coverage, you know, where you thought you had a beaten, then you got to the rim and you would try to go under the rim

to reverse the to guard him. And he still got it. But when he does that, um, to shot, he's not a, he's a really good three-point shooter. You know, free throw shooter too. Like, he can't shoot her. And he's

finally shot now. Like, at the end of the game, he knows that I can get to the elbow, kind of like

dirt. Um, you just got a hope, like when you're guarding him, all you're doing is hoping he misses. Because there's nothing you're doing defensively. I do think, um, the guards who get up under him and get into his body, uh, the stronger lower-based guys have a better chance of guard him than the longer guys. Uh, he's just so talented. And he's another guy that has the code be Michael Meinsrick. Right. And I, and I, and I love that about him as well. Did you, was he noticeably

better this year than last year to you? Yeah. I don't know if it was, um, yeah, number one, yes, um, because he was more sure of what he was doing. Yeah. But I don't know where came up with this killer, like, he had it last year, but he's ramped it up. Yeah. It's almost like he's taking names, you know, like, okay, uh, you got me last year. That's all you feel that he's planned, that he remembers everything that went on last year against him. And, and he's turning that into, um,

energy. Interesting. Because the other guy that jumped out when I saw them was Castle, who seemed, who I voted for first team. Either way, I have to ask you about my vote later, because I'm wavering on one. But I, I put Castle on first team all defense, because I'm like, what, more do you want from a perimeter guy, a defense than this? That's what makes his first, you know,

we be as amazing, right? Yeah. But all their guards are guards. King guards, like every single

“one of them. I think that's what people misunderstood to spurs. How good they are defensively. Yeah.”

Now, when we just figured out how to not, how to switch and stay in the pain, but how going out to corners and stuff like that, um, and, you know, I, I, I worry, like, the one team that could make them struggle, maybe, if you can get a guy that he's guarding that is really shoot the ball well, from the three, uh, to fool it out a little bit, uh, you have a little bit of a shot. That's, that's probably Denver, right? It's because that's it. Your Gordon or Yoke is trying to

get away from, exactly. And they're passing. Um, but I tell you, the, uh, their guards, they put pressure on you. It's real pressure. Like they're up into you. And, you know, I had a couple of years when I was a player, early in my career, we had three rounds in Dan Brownfield. And if you're from Boston, you know, the three relances, uh, clearly three bikes, man. You know, I felt by first couple of years, I could really be aggressive, because I'm like, go, go in there.

“And there you, I mean, that's how, that, that's how you feel their playing, like, they're so”

up into you and they're preaching so much. It's almost like they're saying, if you want to, you can, you can drive, but it's not going to be good for you. And they play that way. You told me we were talking before the playoffs last year. And you were telling me about Indiana. This was not on a podcast. This was just a section about it. And you were telling me how difficult they were, because of what they were doing, pressure and defensively, and just people don't realize what a

bitch it is to play against them. And I really started watching. And I thought Indiana was my big sleeper to make the finals last year, because it was like, yeah, they're doing something. I don't know if people fully realize yet. And now you saw the league emulated this year. And there are all these teams trying to pick up full pressure and it feels like this new wave of what, but you must have, being in the middle of coaching, you must have noticed like a difference this year, right?

where everybody's going. Oklahoma City, very physical on the ball, they reach the grab, they hold,

“they slap, they strip, they want. Yeah. So every team is going to try to do their version of that.”

And so you knew it was going to go that way. Saturday, Antonio does it. It's easy for them to do. Indiana did it. There's a couple other team Detroit, physical, pressureing the ball. And then soda can do it, too, when they play I/O and in McDaniels and Ant all together. Yeah, and when they're saying, yeah, Minnesota can be anybody and lose anybody. That's just who they are,

man. But you know, that's, I tell you, if I'm Denver, that's a rough first round.

That, that, that just this, because they beat Denver. And that's why, you know, I look at, like, Boston, New York. And I know that can be a scary thing as well, because Boston, New York, be Boston. I don't care what you say, confidence is just like you were talking about winning. Yeah. When you, when you win against someone in a series, you believe you can beat them. No matter how good they are, you start believing that. And it becomes hard. I tell you what ball pressure does in a circle about our

“conversation. Yeah. Sure, it's the clock. Do it. It's, are you have to think about it?”

Shorten is the clock. Instead of running your offense in 20 seconds and you're starting your offense at 14, you may not even start it with the guy you want to start it with. You know, you may have taken the ball out of his hands. And so you're wasting your time trying to get it back into the right guy's hands. And now there's 10 seconds. Like, if you can convince your team, if you have a team built like that, guys, if you pressure the ball, oh, we have his 12 seconds of defense,

the play of your possession, it makes you a better defense of team. And that's why teams are doing it. Well, in the, the town pool in the league now, where you can have a team like the Celtics that have Walsh and Hugo Gonzalez and Shireman and, you know, pictured way and they could just kind of keep going and Ron Harper Jr. They're bringing in. It just feels like everybody's so, because that, we've talked about this before, but like your 2012 Celtic team kind of the last to Rod team. Yeah.

And you go back and look at the depth of that team and some of the guys that we're playing versus like the depth that teams have now, like Ron Harper Jr's good. And Ron Harper Jr would would play real minutes on playoff teams. And he can barely get out there for the Celtics. And I feel like a lot of teams have these extra guys like that. And I'm sure this is one of the reasons they're thinking about expansion because the talents there. I don't think they're doing

“there. It's, it's, uh, it's going to go away once they expand. You know, true. Uh, I think about”

you talking to a guy that came in a league with 23 teams. Right. And so each time they expanded the, uh, the talent pool and the mentions got thinner and thinner and thinner. Yeah. Um, but it also comes

down to the front office building and management. Like, uh, Brad's in an amazing guy. Brad, Brad

was a really, really good coach. He's a better front office guy. Like he really is. Like he's, all the guys he had, anybody could have taken. Right. It's not like he's taken these guys. I'm that, I'm that's all about the Jalen. I'm talking about like shyreman and people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for sure, anybody got a chance to grab these guys. But they did. And they keep doing it. You know, and so. What? They got catered from the Kings. He was like a

secretary of traffic. And wasn't planning to play it a little bit. But they're, they're a value waiting there, they're, they're spurred like lately. You know, they're a value waiting to talent. They have value waiting to type on guys that fit, uh, they know Joe. They know what Joe will stand for, home stand for. And they're, they're hitting the home run. That's a home run. Yeah. If you got to get him credit, they've been amazed. So, Missola this year, who was, I thought incredible. I'm

voting for him for a coach of the year. Um, not home or pick. I just can't, I don't know how they won 56 games. That's not a really nice time at home or pick. But I, I'm going to go with you on that one. Yeah, they started out on three and finished 56 and 26. And I still don't understand what happened. He's done it amazing. I did tell you that I thought there would be a playoff thing. Yeah. But, but I didn't, I mean, come on, uh, he's had, he's done, it's, it's, it's,

he's done an amazing job. Um, this, I would say is the first year in a long time that,

they're for the five guys that have been one coach of the year. Maybe even higher than you can say, I can see that. So you got bigger stack, bigger staff, Jordan, not what you put on there. Jordan, not is one. Mitch, Mitch Johnson. Mitch Johnson is one. So who's your family? Joe Missola is one. Yeah. So that's four. And I can't think of my fifth, but I just don't someone, uh, I feel it. Uh, so my point is, it's, they, they just, it's amazing. It's been

it's really impressive to watch because, um, they lost talent. Right. And got better. You know, he came in and changed their weight. Charles Lee was your fifth one. Charles Lee is my fifth one. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was listening to it, but I was also like who's to be at the Charlie's the fifth one. Charles Lee is the fifth one. Like, um, we probably did early in the year, but we get them three on a four, like early in the year. And I came in our coaches meeting

because we played them like on a Monday and then on a Friday and there's right doing the,

midseason tournament. Yeah. And when we played them the second time and beat them, um, Peter

Fagan was, uh, was with the box and it become a really good friend of mine. Um, he said, man, they're going to be good. They are good. And he's like, what do you mean? I said, they're here. I said, they're here now. And he's like, no, I don't see that. I said, oh, no, they're here right now. They're coming. Now, I didn't know they're going to make the run that they made, but we played well, that game, um, because it was one of the, uh, type racers, right? At that time, we played, well,

probably one of our hardest best play games and it took everything to beat them. Wow. And, um, and I thought, you know, obviously, I think, kind of changed their culture. Like, there, there are

certain players that have the ability to come and earn it, to walk in and change the culture.

But outwards, but with his actions. And I think, um, it's kind of done that in Nalamello and on the other guys are doing it as well. They've just kind of bought in to that. And they said that because that, yeah, it's been a polarizing rookie of the year vote, right? And I thought it's a Khan. Yeah. And, you know, part of me is I value the winning, even though I know you're not supposed to do the

“rookie that way. But I think I personally think you should. I thought, first of all, he played a”

shitload of games and a bunch of games for them, right? Which he played like 2,500 minutes and 79 games. But I thought I was talking the other day about like the gravity of him out there.

And he's really the only guy that moves. And his constant movement sets up everything else that

they're doing combined with like, he rebounds. He plays defense. He's unselfish. Have you ever got like that? You do. And if it's one of your better players that your team is better, you know, you could make a case early in the year, Charlotte was probably thinking about moving guys. You know, moving Lamello, moving bridges. And now you watch them, they're playing like winners. Miller should be up for one of the most improved players. Yeah. I mean, but all

that is from winning and playing the right way. And what's greatest they didn't do it early. But they kept at it. They kept playing the right way. And then they called Flipfire. I thought to sneak his move to Charles May with if it wouldn't be about to hit in a certain lineup. I thought he was like a a glue guy defensively. And he is as good as anybody to leave offensive rebounding. I, he's a terror on the glass. Yeah. He gives, he won, like, I know Lamello, Lamello play great

bridges. But he won that game against Miami. He kept giving him extra shots. And then that's invaluable. This rookie class was spectacular. Great. Flag who I feel terrible in that voting for

“rookie of the year because I think he's going to be a possible generational guy. Right. And it's not”

a good thing. Yeah. He's, I think he's going to be fine. Dylan Harper, I was even in the preseason like, OK, I guess, I guess we're doing this, watching him. And he, I was saying a while ago, he reminds me of more of a guy like from your era. Like that, he's not really a three point shooter. He can shoot him. But he really wants to get close to the basket. He wants to bang bodies. He wants to feel dudes against him before he decides what to do. Like he's not like 85. Yeah.

So it plays like a grown man. Like he finishes in traffic as well as anybody in our league. And he's the rookie. Yeah. He is going to attack. Like he's another guy. You know how we're talking about stuff. You know, he's looking for this shot. Well, you know, when Dylan's coming at you, you're looking to shoot a jumper. He's, he's trying to get to the basket. Right. And he's like stop it because I don't think you can. The toughness of that team. Like you think about those

guys, you just, you know, they've added, they've added, every guy they've added. It's tough.

“It sounds like you think that could win the title. I think they could. I do worry about”

I mean, if you watch the game last night, don't say one because they had a bunch of pets.

But San Antonio. And then the only other thing is can they shoot the ball well enough

when it's time to shoot the ball? Like they can shoot. They're a good shooting team. But can they shoot it well enough down the stretch? That would be the two. The offensively don't be fine. I have three concerns in the raw small. One is when

“be holding up for 10 weeks because he's 7 foot 7 and I just am always worried about him. And I think”

people are going to be really physical with him. So that's one. Two is the shooting, especially when they're like up 10, 12. And they don't really have that inside outside. It's really Harper. But I don't think they're going to have them out there in these situations. But that guy who could just kind of create a shot, that's not a three or it's not a Wemby play.

Yeah, Fox Fox did do that a lot. But he's doing good. So he's the third one is Fox who's used to

be in the guy. But now he's on this team with all of these different weapons. And he's got a step back and do the 1989 Isaiah. Yeah. And I don't think he's navigated. I think he's navigated pretty well this year. Like you can see in games he picks and chooses. Some games he's abrasive, some games he's not. But early in the year I was worried about it. And then as the season went on, I'm like man, he's kind of kind of accepted. Right. Because they started winning. They put together

winning streets on that side. I just wonder in the playoffs if it gets like to not crunch time. I'm just going to be because they're going to need him. He's going to have to be the guys. Like guys, I got this. They're going to have to be the guys. We're going to have to be in and times. But there's some in the kitchen sink at Wemby. And so I agree with that. I think it would have to be him. So do you believe in that the old guys on the couch philosophy of the bright lights are

“really bright. And you have to have played in a few of these to really understand that. Because you”

could even feel that the Charlotte playing game. It's like, oh, this is a different level of pressure,

guys. These three are going in now. I mean, finally didn't get back in. No. No, he's still in.

And he actually did have that look like, oh, right. But I don't. I just think there's something different about them. We thought that about Oklahoma. And then they couldn't win the first year and then they came back. So it's, if you just believe in history, you would have to say, the history says, no, but I think my eyes tell me something different is about them. I wouldn't be shocked if they want. And I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't, you know what I mean about it? Because of that.

So, but they're fun to watch. So they would have to basically be Denver around two. Yeah. I have to be okay seeing round three. And then somebody good from the East and round four. That would be. Yeah. And they're going to have three physical services, Portland. Let's talk about Portland. Yeah. They're a little dangerous. Portland has sides. Yeah. They have sides. And they have real defenders. Like they can defend one through five.

So that that series said until it's going to win, but I'm telling you, it's not going to be an easy series where Portland will shrug as can they score. Yeah. It's kind of Jenny. Yes. Denny or bust. You can feel that even in the playing game. He was an animated 41, but and I haven't even looked at those, his head. But my guess is what, when he does,

“his drive to the basketball, that's what Wimbledon suit defensively.”

Yeah. He's going to have to get those same layups. Oh, but Wimbledon. Right. So that's that's going to affect him a little bit. Yeah. Because he, he's one of those guys. He goes right every single time. And you're like, just play him. So he doesn't go right. It's like, OK. And then he goes right again. It's like, why did you let him go right? But he's like any Johnson. You know, yeah. Vinnie Johnson of the piss is when right. Yeah. Mike for tell us, cussing me off this these times. And I'm like in my

brain, I'm like, coach, I swear to God, I'm trying to make him go left. He just won't. He keeps going. Maybe it was like that the other way going left. Yeah. I know you're going left. I can't stop you, but I know you're doing that. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was like half of all those guys, but I was only going right. Yeah. And I remember late by career. A rookie walked up to me before, you know, the jumper said, Hey, Doc, you're not going right today. And you know what, I told him I said,

well, I'm not going left. It's a surprise. And so something's going to happen. And that's what these guys think. Like, I'm going to go and laugh. You're not going to take me away from it. And he thinks I'm going to go and write, you can do all that stuff. And I'm getting there. I wish Portland wasn't playing San Antonio because it's funny that upset teams to me heading around one were Portland and Atlanta. And then each of them ended up with a draw that you just don't

want them to have, right? Portland, Wemby's just the Loch Ness Monster waiting for him. And then at

have to play the next. Yeah. I still wouldn't want to play Atlanta. They're good. They're long. They're

athletic. What they've done right before Trinidad deadline is bringing shooters in and adding shooting to that team. With the size and the length they have is unbelievable. You know, Bronson is going to put everybody on. It's going to be a hard number. Bronson has his numbers. He's killed Atlanta. You know, in the right season, he probably will not play them because you have that special. But he's going to get worn out. Like, that is not a team you want to see.

And you're going to do a quick work or it's going to be a dangerous series. Yeah. Like, I was looking at the odds for the series on Fando and the next like three to one favorites. That it feels like a seven gamer to me. Yeah. Maybe six, but at least six, maybe seven. The problem when you play the next. This is my fear for the Celtics, too. As you feel like, feel like you have them for 44 minutes. And then it's like a three-point game with four minutes left. Now they're in the

Bronson versus your best guy contest. And he's really good at that. Yeah, it's certain teams. Like,

“if you play the lakers, you know, when they're healthy. Well, all you have to do is it's”

good to game to the last five minutes. Right. And then if you go over it and whoever you have, yeah, and then reads, like, if certain teams like that, you know, when you play the next, you know, if it gets to a single possession game, they got Bronson, and then they got to Skype, chat, sending out at the three that will make a shot on you. They become very difficult. What's what is Celtics on top? You know, they got two guys. You know, plus they do it all game,

but they have two guys down the stretch, they can take over a game. When you have multiple guys, it's tough. It really is. What we surprised that they were able to slide Tatum back into the minutes and juggle, whatever Jalen's having this, you know,

one of the great late bloomer borderline MVP candidate seasons. And he's finally the guy,

now here comes Tatum. Now I got a balance that you know, that can go great for that.

“That could have gone, that could have gone bad. Right. What did you think was going to happen?”

I didn't know. I did, you know, obviously I talked to Sam all the time, but I did think they had the equity of a title. And so that kind of makes them want to play right. Right. I also thought Joe did his best work there. Like he made it clear. This is Jalen Bronson this year. And then you got to give a ton of credit to Tatum. He just wanted to play. He just wants to play. He wants to be Tatum and he's going to be Tatum. But you know, listen, I think in Tatum's mind is,

I'm back. I'm healthy. I have a chance to win another title. And Jalen Brong was the MVP of the last finals. So it's not a big deal to me. I just want to win. So there was a lot of things going for them, but it could have went really bad. And it has not. Now they haven't gotten into the

“play from shit. So if they can push, we may see something, but I don't think so. I think they are”

a may team. You know what I mean by that? Like they understand each guy understands his role and Joe does a great job of accountability. It really does. Well, I said this the other day on a pod that it's his team, which is how this saw that stuff. It's not Jalen Bronson or Jason. It's actually Joe Bezoos team. So we saw that that way. He's running. It says a lot about where the NBA is in 2026. Because I think those guys are in best friends, but they're good. And I think they both

want the same thing. But what can happen? And you had a lot of this happen to you the last 12 months with the bugs. But it's all the people around the guys. And it's all the insider and this guy heard this and that heard that or somebody who you know is friends with one of the players and they're saying something on a show or a pod. And the stuff that's the life of its own that does it really does? You know, and like there's it's everyone wrote an article about someone

having a blow up in a locker room every team would be on blast. You know, you know what I mean?

There's so people have no idea to do how often and how much that happens. And honestly, I've always

thought it's shut up and if you lose a bad game, there should be some tension. There should be some tension. Like that's part of it. And the good teams get through it though. They look at it and they take growth from it. And the average in the bad teams let it hold them now. They still

quote, those are the bad teams. Those are the guys who the good teams you don't find out about it. They keep it inside. They make it part of their growth, their strength. All right. Let's fight about this. Let's take another step. And to me, you can see it. I've always said the most beautiful thing in the world is the finals because you have two teams. Usually, that have committed themselves to completely to the team. They have literally given themselves to the team

“and they play that way. And that's why I'm watching the finals is so beautiful. Because there's”

no BS. There's no fighting. This is my team. And if there is, that team's gonna lose. Like it's

it's so obvious. I always looked at the first Miami year with a broad way. They didn't win

because they played a team this first who were completely mavericks. Yeah, the mavericks. They were so together. Yeah. You know, the Sean Stevenson I remember when the kid that was started and ripped, put him on the bench. And no issues. Right. It was no issues. Like it was about the team and winning. And so in the next year, they came back and they were like that. Right. They had that lesson was talked to them. You know. And so well, think about the flip side of that. Because I think a good

example for this is the 2019 warriors that third KDCs in. And they had that thing happen with Dreyman and KD in the Cooper game. Which weren't close to the Cooper's that year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you knew that was different. It felt different on the court. It felt you could see it on the bench. It was like, Oh, this is a bad one. And it turned out it was bad. Yeah. It was the

“first time. It was real. Yeah. You know, like, you remember that game Dreyman took that shot. Yeah.”

That since the game over time. And they looked all the way over time. We went on a one-day game. Yeah. And then I heard afterwards, you know, it's so funny. Like as a coach, you know, and it is crap is going on. You're coaching your team. And then in the press conference, that's all they're asking me about. And I'm like, Yes, I didn't know that was going on. I'm happy it's going on. It's the other

day. Yeah. But, but that never left him. That's stuck with him. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought

to you by Fandwell and BA fans. This is your reminder to check in daily. And I mean daily, because every day during the playoffs, Fandwell is serving up a happy hour. Special drops. You won't want to miss profit boost, bonus bets, much more the best part. It's every single day. Including today as we head toward the playoffs. I was looking at series parlay steps. As you know, I love to pick upsets. I had Indiana last year. I love nothing more than a round one upset

“with a nice juicy juicy underdog number. I don't see it this year. I really think the best series”

bet is a four series parlay with the spurs and boston money lines along with the Denver money line

in the New York money line. And all four of those series would have to win and it is plus one,

20 on Fandwell. And I think that's the one I would recommend the most at any of these. I really wanted to take Toronto because I just don't think Toronto is going to beat the next. I think that series is going to be good and close. And I think it goes six or seven. But I think the next one. Anyway, check that one out. And I'm going to be tweeting picks and all kinds of stuff during the course of the playoffs and showing you your best Fandwell possibilities. We've been

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state farm is there. Covered japses are selected by the customer availability and eligibility vary by state. We didn't talk about maxing filly. You love maxi. I love maxi. It was like one of your all-time favorites from the one you've you've touted his virtues. Don't stop. He was awesome this year. I had to 13 mile MBA just because I have to put a center on each team. But

he's a good man second. And if they're going to give the Celtics any semblance of a chance,

it's going to be because of him. Exactly. There are little guards bother bosses. But they struggle with the quick fast guys. And Maxi, it's just not that he's just so quick and fast. He's now finished in left or right. He's in a lead shooter. He's not a good shooter. He's not a lead shooter. He's surface nails. And what he's really done and I'm so proud of him. He's become a leader. He is the leader of that team. There's no doubt about who's a leader of the sixors. And it's

really cool for a guy that that young and such a great high character guy. So we have taken that step this quickly. Yeah. Because that so you mentioned they're not Celtics aren't great against guards like that. They're also because they love offensive rebound and they're crashed in the board's console. Yeah. And you don't get the board and the teams that just go, oh, boom, we're

“off. It's like hockey. It's like a two on one or three on two. I think Maxi is the best in the league at that”

of like, oh, I have numbers. Boom. I'm going 700 miles an hour. Yeah, you didn't even need numbers, but when you have numbers, you're in trouble. And where's really improved is assassinating. Like, you know, in the year two years I had him, he can get to the basketball. He couldn't see a lot. Now, you know, he sees the lot. He's making guys better. And I'm just watching them this year. There's games like when Joelle and Paul George were really, and, and, and, and, and, uh,

Escoe were playing well. He kind of, I'm taking, he's fine with taking the step back and then when they need him, he takes back over. So this growth has been unbelievable. They're not going to be easy to be, you know, and I know everyone says Joelle's not coming back. I don't believe that. I think he will plan the series. And I have no reason to say that. I just, I just think it's still important not to.

“I think we will see him at some point in the series, but probably a little later, and by the way,”

there might be down like 3-1 by the time. Yeah, if you haven't, then you may not see him, but if it's right,

you know, if you're silly, you're thinking, if I can get one of these first two,

and then I can win one at home, it's two-two. And then we get to make fellow back. Right. There's fresher at it. Well, one thing, and you've seen that crowd in various stages of either just horrified or really great. They love Maxine, they love Edgecom. And there's real edge of these home games. Like you could fill it in that Orlando game. Like they fucking love those guys. And I don't know. I think they're going to be tough to beat in Philly. Boston can't lose one of those first two.

But honestly, if you lose one of those first two in this series to a Philly thing with that on beat, then that probably says more about Boston. Like they got to take care of business. You got to win. But you know, good team, they can still win. Now I get it. It's just like a little smack dance. And they better play well. Because the love in the series goes on that allows you well from closer to getting back. And you can go home and beat in that series. It's a

tough series. I got an email from a listener, because I've been doing more mail back stuff. Wow, I don't dare listen to my mail. Actually, somebody asked if Joelle is the unlucky a superstar in the history of the NBA. And I didn't make a make a case for Bill Walton.

“Oh, wow. That's a good answer. But I think Joelle has had more injury, more injuries to”

different parts of his body. And just things happen in bad luck and the orbital bone. And while it just had feet issues and beats. Yeah, it's like every year. It's a different something. Like

I mean, I remember the first, you know, I had three years there, right? Yeah, the first year

was the game five against Washington, the closed out game. Yeah, I thought I thought it was neat. I mean, that would that looked bad. The second year and I'm missing up another knee injury. The third year he gets no second year to sit in the face. Right. And and then he also works his hand. You remember he had the, yeah, to have surgery on his hand. He breaks his face bone. So he has to work my head in the third year. He had another, he had him in this his head. Yeah, I'm like, and then this

year has a pin this, I mean, come on, like you can't make this stuff up. And so yeah, it's really

November seeing and I really believe, like if I had had him, especially the first year, and then Atlanta series and he was healthy. I do believe we advance. You know, well, we talked about that before. That's one of the all-time what the hell happened in that series series.

I mean, some of his career was never the same after that. Literally died during the series.

“Literally happened. You know, I was we live about it. I wouldn't find answers. I remember”

telling Sam Cousel in the Washington series. So you know, they haven't filed ban at all in the series. And I swear, gain one at Atlanta or you're like, oh boy. And now he's a fisherman. Yeah, he's a professional fisherman. This guy was 13 m on BA. He's not even in his 30s yet. But in that year, he had it with me there. He was amazing. Yeah. Like he looked at the branish, a couple of times. Like in the full point stuff. It's like branish or magic is. You know,

you remember with the decision we made was we put the ball in his dance full time. Yeah. And that was great until the playoffs. And when they started following them, they didn't want the ball anymore. And they brushed their offense. But man, you see, I'm telling you, I said, I'm shocked that he's not playing basketball. He's so talented. We didn't talk about the trait. What made them go up

“11 year opinion? I have my thoughts. But what was different about them this year versus last year?”

Well, that's a good question. Well, I thought Kate took a huge jump. Number one. As good as state was last year, he's one of the top five players in the league now. Wow. Or in that area. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's so many guys. And then Durham took a jump that I didn't

see coming. I never thought he would be even a score and play with the finesse game that he

is played with this year. I didn't see that coming. You forget how young he is. Bill. And yeah. And so I think that those two things are the reason they are where they're at. And then the last thing they did something that no team needs to do. They bought into who they are. They didn't really bought into their identity. You know, like when you hear Miami, you hear the heat culture, right? And they buy into it. Well, each for it basketball, they have bought into it. And I think that

that here is a lot of way for them. Yeah. And one of the reasons I had him second team on BA during is I felt like the physicality and the attitude they have. It kind of starts with him. Like he's out of like your era. Like you could see him like getting into it with Anthony Mason and game five of a next piston series. He's he's a complete throwback and carries himself that way. You know, he carries himself like he's a bad as a man on the floor. Yeah. And there's nothing

you can do about it. And then they have the ultimate guy up to mention, we'll fight anybody for his work. Literally come off the bench to fight. Yeah, it'll come off. And it's like I love the comedy made in the one fight where he came on the bench. And he said, what do you expect me to do, right? This is what I am. And Ron Holland, who's also ready to rumble. Yeah, they may have a bunch of guys that that are just they're ready to go. And you know, because this is one of my personal favorites.

I'm just so happy with the bias because it was so rough for him and Philly. And now to see him be a leader, be the bat of the team. It's really cool. I love when good things happen to get people. And it's happening to the bias and good for him. And they actually need him because there's

all they need. Without Kate, there's not a lot of guys who can create their own shot. And it's amazing

how many times he had the ball with three minutes left to minute 30 left where he had to basically create a 17 footer from scratch. And he was able to do it. I thought he was really good this year.

“He's been great. And that's the only thing that scares me is there can they shoot well enough,”

even though they're high and when they're looking at the offensive rating, they can't find or whatever. Yeah, I still worry about can they play well enough offensively to win. That'll be the biggest question. So what's your finals then? Who's coming out of the east if you had to your life dependent on it? Who would you pick it? Well, it's how bad if Larry's life dependent on it. Yeah, that's easier. I'm still going Boston. But the next thing dangerous, I know people want to

want to crap on the next and I'm afraid. I'm afraid. I just don't understand why. I get they didn't maybe play great every regular season game, but they're deep. They're deep. And they can defend wins. They can defend guards. And they can score. And I would not be

I don't. My fear with the next is there was a game, Mizzola kind of threw away the last

“Thanksgiving, because I don't want to show them anything. But he did have takedown playing and he”

went and takedown needed to get over that hump of being at MSG, right? Which is the worst moment of his life. You got to get him back out there. And Ann and Obey was just doing the dream on thing. He was just in his personal space, the entire game, and really likes guarding takem. And takem is 96% back, 94%

back. But the first step stuff still isn't totally there yet. I thought it was the explosive stuff

is coming back, but not I said there. I just, you know, like the Celtics destroyed the next all year, right? And then they beat him that last game. Like, I know that doesn't mean much, and it usually doesn't, but in this case, we come to Nick's beat him last year in the playoff series, the next, the put it this way, the next, when they play the Celtics, if they play the Celtics, they will not be a team they're going to like and pop in it, right? And that's where the

Troy, when you look at the Troy, they haven't been to a first round yet. So in a lot of ways, and they're really, people forget how young the Troy is. Yeah. By people who talk about San Antonio in Oklahoma, but they don't know about how young the pistons are, and they're really young,

and they've never advanced. So this is going to be a big year for them to take that next step.

“You know, the, the secret Celtic sauces that they didn't do in that next game, and I think they've”

been saving it is when they play Tatum at the five, which I think they're going to do, and I think Tatum Brown, a shooter in the two guards, I think it's going to be the lineup against the next, because they're playing Kata and crunch time against the next. I just don't think they're going to do that. I think they're going to be a smaller and try to, and just basically, I have shooting and just try to attack them, attack towns, try to attack them. Yeah, you can go to the smaller guy on

town because he's away from the basket. Yeah. And the one of the areas town struggles is when you get up under him. Yeah. He shrunk with that. Now where I think, I think we should get towns credit is he has learned now. He goes down low way more and he's rebounding at an unbelievable clip. And I'm telling you, they're rebounding is a factor. Right, especially with mentioned. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't talk about Cleveland. Did you see, did you play them post, Tartun Trader now? Yeah, we played them twice.

We need them once, Lawson once. So defensively, there were offensively, they're more interesting. Is it like, you know, obviously as somebody, I'm talking about me, that has just lost all faith in James Harden as a playoff guy, but maybe he doesn't have to be as much of a playoff guy. Yeah. I don't know. I, this is what I say about James. And, you know, this is what I said about

him when I coach them. The one thing I loved about him is he plays. Yeah. He never misses games.

And I know that sounds trivial, but all the other guys, he does, he, he wants to play every day and he does that. What I liked about him, Bill, is I don't know. And I always talk about that one year we had with him in the first half of the year. He literally was a scoring point guard. And we were amazing. And then that second half, he wanted to start scoring again and kind of upset the rhythm with Joelle and all that. If he stays in that role where he's going to be a scoring,

like still a stunner. But, but, man, I'm telling you, his passing is so underrated. He's not just an easy one in the lead passers in our league. And when he plays at that way, he's still aggressive scoring, but really said people up. They have two rollers. Like James Harnes plays well with bigs that role. You know, where he struggled with Joelle, his Joe would grow. Yeah. Joe was like, I don't need the role. I'm Joe with bigs. Just give me the ball. But he has two bigs that role.

And so it's going to be interesting. I was surprised when I heard Kenny, you know, the press conference about their defense. I had noticed that because we had been watching them. And I still haven't seen one enough to tell you how much worse is it? I don't know that. But if they don't play defense, you're not winning. Garrett. Yeah, the events metrics aren't great.

“Yeah. It's teams. It's an up and down team now. I think it's harder for them to get stops.”

They're kind of a wildcard though, because they're in the Detroit side of the bracket. Right. They looked out. They have Toronto who didn't beat any of the top three teams at all this year. And that's pretty easy series, I think. And then hopefully the Detroit gets there in the headlights and all the said, you're in the next and the Celtics beat the crap out of each other. Yeah, another. I think

bang you up. They're going to physically bother you. And even if it's a five gang series,

“it's not going to be a physically easy series for Cleveland. That could be a very physical series.”

What was your, your quick LeBron James take age 41 still like did you just stop making sense to you like four years ago? Yeah, stop making sense. You were coaching team back at age 41. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy, right? Like what he's doing, a couple of great things about the run. First of all, just physically come on. Like he had some doubts this year that have to leave could not do now. And it's amazing. The other thing that he's done that most stars don't do,

the old attitude in coaching is never coaching aging superstar. Yeah, they're, they're going to

get you fired. I mean, every coach would tell, especially back in a day, don't take an aging superstar because they're going to keep thinking they can do what they can do 10 years ago and they can't. And you're going to have to be the guy to tell them. Yeah. You know, where I give LeBron credit, as he did it himself. He kind of, he sees what Luke is. It's that hard to see. But he sees what Austin raises. And he gives them room. He's like, you know, when you need me, I'm over here. He plays

the role. And I listen, most guys don't do that. And especially we're talking about one of the greatest players to ever play doing that. It says a lot about LeBron James. And, you know, people want to

knock him in, you know, it says a lot about him as a human. It really does. So you're excited to watch

him on Golden State next year with Steph. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you'll be, you don't think

“you'll be back with the lakes. I would, I would bet on Golden State. I think they're going to do the old”

guy, the Sylvester Stallone expendables. We're getting the, our generation. Here we go. We're going to get everyone together or listen. So we're going to get like, I'm on, you know, with whatever vision that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the irony is the Warriors could have really used somebody like LeBron last night. Like he, you know, he feels, he does a lot of stuff. So I'm watching, who is your MVP just out of curiosity? Who do you think should have won the MVP this year?

Well, it's a tough one for me. Great. We'll probably win. And that's probably who I would have voted for, but Wendy, man, I keep going back to the defense and thing, like why we don't give a guy's enough credit for what they do defensively. Yeah. And you can, you can, it wouldn't be won it. It wouldn't bother me. There was a moment when that seemed like he was going to. I don't think you, like for me, he really will. Well, he didn't, and he didn't have the minutes. Like it,

“you can just played like, I think, 100 plus more minutes than he did and he barely got the minimum.”

I didn't like that. He skipped the last game of the year when they had beat Denver. They moved Denver down in the foreseat. Like, why wouldn't you want to do that? What do you want to play Denver for? Yeah. I think that was more of a team choice. Yeah. But that was bad choice. Yeah. The other thing, though, is, is the Joker, we can't vote him for teak. Yeah. Because like, if he just went by numbers, he blends every year. You know, like, you know, there are a couple of guys that wanted

with Michael's heyday. But when you go back and look at the numbers, you're like, what are the voters doing? Yeah. Where are they? Well, they say they're in my loan, when my loan beat Jordan that one year. Yeah. It seems like the stupidest thing that ever happened now. So I said the other day, I was going to vote for SGA. And I was organized over it. Because I was like, I can't believe I'm that voting for Yoke and she, he had the best offensive season,

like, not only his career, but one of the best I've ever seen. And now, because we, we don't have to turn our own ballots till this weekend, because with the appeals, I'm wavering. I might actually vote for Yoke. It's because I'm like, I don't want to be 10 years from now. Like, how did I not vote for Yoke? It's the guy, literally. It's just for now. People are going to look at the numbers. It's like, didn't vote for this guy. You know, having said that,

but the numbers aren't always the whole story. Right. And what SGA does every night,

he's good every night. Yeah. Well, that's the jail and brown face, too. Like, when I know I'm getting 30 from my guy, every night, my team can behave differently. Yeah, an efficient scoring. And what SGA also does is, that was stretch. He takes the game over. Yeah. He's the best crunch I'm guy in the league. The stats say it. I test everything. You know what's coming and you can't do anything about it. Yeah. So that's why, you know, you'll win to me,

J, honestly, but it's really tough for me not to pick Wemby because of the defense

“abortion. And it's good to share is and in Yoke. None of them play defense. None of them”

take the game defensively like Wemby does. All right. We've come to the point when we have to talk about the buck season or it seemed horrible from afar. It didn't seem like a fun time. Well, but it could have been. I will say that like they get off to the start. You know, it's the four to season. I said something to my coaches just to guide the gang at her. Be honest, obviously, and then scoop because we don't have any facilities. Yeah. You know,

Wemby like we wouldn't build like all the other team where they had one and then a second star.

We didn't have a second star. So for us to be a good team, we weren't like going to win anything. Then we're 26 is spending. Yeah. You know, so it probably outdid our record of you. You met your record for record versus seems to go by spending. We probably were one of the better teams in that way. But at the end of the day, when you when you start out like that, and then the whole Yana stuff it was just not a lot of fun. It just wasn't because that started in July and it just became a

running narrative. I got a lot of podcast content out of it. I bet that was what I'm not sure you did. But for me, and I don't want to go into this alone because it's like when you're running Yana's and then what you're here on the outside, it was two different worlds. And that's where from a coaching standpoint, it's very difficult because I talk to Yana every day. And you see these reports. And I'm like, I'm wondering the end of these guys come one

“conversation with Yana's because I think a lot of people at the end of the day were talking”

for him. Right. I don't know if they necessarily were doing that in what he was actually saying. And it made things murky and it made things very, very difficult. And then the end of season with this whole thing was rough. It was just stuff. But they shot the Shoms piece or, you know, the Shoms piece that literally I just tried to ignore it because it's the point that I was making like, yeah, we had a tough meeting as a regained and we blew like again,

if you go into any life from why is that news? Yeah. But it's more like a whole Yana study play not play, it was tough. And I saw it, like, as a coach, I could literally see it from both sides of it. And I really could. And when I talk to Yana and we talked to a lot, I told him that, you know,

“and it's just, you know, where the human side of me, you know, is the books were obviously”

done in the amazing job overall, like to win a title and to get there and they're good people.

And then you have Yana's, well, I'm telling you, the good first. Yeah. And they're both, you know, over all this stuff. And I don't think Yana's knows if he wants to say it or not. And I don't know if the organization knows one way or not either. And it just, it's too bad because I just, that part is figured out. When you want to try to win someone, it's like a blood transfusion, and that transfusion shouldn't be broken. And that part is the one that I wanted to figure out.

So it's tough. Yeah, because you had that embossed. And when the KG piercer was coming to an end, and you were coming to an end there too. Yeah. Yeah. You had the umbilical cord of that title. And it's tough to just be like, all right, we ran our course here because I told you this last summer. I thought they should have traded Yana's last summer. And I didn't, I didn't like the Dame stretch, bringing miles. And I understand why you did it because you were trying basically to

create a situation where Yana's retired with the bucks, right? Yeah. You didn't want to just throw away

a year when you'd never pick. But it was, it was almost in a positive situation. It's still

to give us the seconds, like, start and go to. Right. You know, in retrospect when you think about it, but you know, Bill, I don't know about the whole trade thing. This is where I struggle and being honest with you, like, yeah, what if what if a guy wants to say, where is that? He's one of Tyler when he wants to play his whole career there. Like what's wrong with that? You know, um, but especially when he won the title, so it doesn't have to go to chase one. Like I, I look in like Yoke and Doker, and Joker never wins

if you want to curry. Yeah, he would never do that. He wants to play and be in go to state warrior.

And if Yana's did decide that, and then in the front office decided that, okay, that's nothing

“wrong with that. That's the only thing that bothered me doing the season and doing the summer about it.”

It's like no one, you know, no one that has asked Yana's, what do you want? And that's where you're one side wants to leave one side wants to stay? I think I mean, I don't know if he's made up his mind either way yet. Well, that okay. That was right. The thing that's been going around since July and the NBA circles, which sometimes can be unreliable, sometimes pretty reliable. It was like Yana's wants to leave, but he doesn't want to be the one that asks for a trade. Like that's where

you around the league. That's been going that since. Exactly. That's what you're here. Right. But that's exactly what's said every day. So are you talking to him and be like, "Yo, Yana, let's do you want to get married or not?" Like, did you ask him? No,

never because of what my place, but yeah, we talked about a lot of stuff. And I just think that he's

“still, I think he has this thing about him that he wants to, he would love to, like, what did he say”

on the trade deadline day? You know, I'm a buck or whatever. Yeah, it's something like that. I think he thinks that way. And so I think leaving is very difficult for him. So you may be right, maybe wants to leave, but then when I don't even know the answer to that, I just know it's not his right and dry as people try to make it out to be. And it's not as easy of a situation as people think it is. Yeah, well, the problem is they traded a lot to get drew. Right. So you give up,

you're giving up future pay excess sets, all that stuff. And it works. You win the title. Then you go all in again on the Dame trade. You give up more basically the rest of the assets for the 2020. That's the problem. Yeah. And but Dame gets hurt, which is bad luck. That was just bad luck. And that luck happens. Like, listen, you don't win unless you're healthy.

I would fight today. You told me that Kiki never got healthy. You never got hurt.

We're winning too. Yeah. You know, but that's part of it. And, you know, the Dame thing was unfortunate. Like, once he went down and got hurt, Yana's just hurt. You know, the whole thing about Yana's having advanced in the playoffs. Well, Yana's hadn't played it in the playoffs. You know, he's been injured until last year. And then Dango's down. So the narrative doesn't spit what actually happened is what I guess I'm saying. And, you know, I'm sitting here today. I can't tell you

what's going to happen. I really can't. I'm at a point now where I just hope everybody's happy whatever happens. And I, that would make me happy. You know, it really would. Well, let's have the doc right, Doc Rivers exit interview. What could you have done differently? If you could go back and change shit, what would you, did you feel like you did a good job? What would, what would the things I did? I didn't think I did a great job this year. I really did. Now, obviously,

what all the injuries it was hard. And it's easier to second guess. I thought one of the things that I've always been, though, was holding everybody accountable for everything, being on time. And I saw I was very relaxed in that this year. And there's reasons for that that I can't go into. But bothered me that I wasn't other than that. You know, getting guys to buy into the roast. I've been very good throughout my career. I look at the teams that I've coached,

be like, when you look at even some of the teams that went deep, when you look at them, go on paper versus the other team, how do they, how do they get to being up in a series? You know, but that's because everybody bought them to the roast. I saw an I really sure would get each guy to see who they really are, understand that. And then play that way.

“Because I think that's the key to coaching, really. I think that's when we look at Joe,”

and all the good coaches down our league, if you can't get each guy to understand who they are and buy into the roast for the good of the team, you're not going to win a series. So is that that's it for coaching for you, think? What do you think? Yeah. I mean, we've met about, you know, I want to say seven weeks ago, and we had a me and owner should get a great meeting. That's what we're all on the same page. And they asked me what I wanted to do. You know, one of the only says, you know,

one plan is, you know, if we do this, you know, you can hang in there for a year or two, and I literally

And a lot of success had it, had some way more ups than downs, you know, but at the end of the day,

I've given 40 years, 40, 70 years to whatever. I don't even know, Odaam, straight, straight, Bill, like with no all the time. And I just wanted to break. I want to get away. The grandkids, just life in general, man. Like, yeah, but the thing is, I don't trust you completely, because I remember being at dinner with you and Larry and you were saying how great it was not to not to be coaching, not getting the calls at three in the morning and how relaxed you were,

that all of a sudden, it was like, wait, Docsco back to coach the bus. But what happened to me, that doesn't mean I don't want to run a team or getting the front almonds. I've done that. And there's voices that would be really fun to do. But right now, you know, I'm just going to try to sit back and have some come back coaching. I'm going to look at it.

“But right now, I can tell you, Bill, I think it was time. And so I need to surprise my coach,”

another guy, I'll put it that way. You said that last time. I don't know if I said that last time. It's impossible. This time I'm saying it. But I'm not going to be out with you. Like, I'm not going to keep coming back. Please, I hope not. What's has the golf game these days? Well, I haven't golfed much. So yeah, so you got to get that back. Yeah, can I say, golf scene in Milwaukee is amazing, except for January. It's really difficult to get a good golf game going.

Yeah, February, probably that great either. Not great either. All right. Well, you're going to pop back on everyone's little while, right? Yeah, you're going to be watching basketball. I hope so. I love basketball. I know. You know, some of the last night, and I had the game sitting at the dinner table on my phone. And then we didn't walk them to me. He's like, I didn't get it. You just read the lyrics. Your team's not in it. You're watching a game like you're prepping and I said, I love the game. It's a great game. It's like, you know,

“I'm actually, I'm really planning on going to a couple of rainers. Is it in the crowd and just watch the game?”

That they're from just sitting the crowd and watching the game. I think that would be, I've never done that.

Think about that. I've been the lead for 40, whatever has never done that. So if you see me to crowd, just sitting there drinking a beer, I'm there because I'm having a great time. And I'm going to watch the game. Wow. That that it's a yeah, you went from playing to coaching to announcing to coaching to announcing. Yeah, I guess you've never had a yeah, I've done it in the two games. All since when all since came to play to Lakers, and I was coaching the Quippers, I said like the forefront. Yeah. And I had a ball. And then we're on the

road once when I was with Silly, and Austin was with Minnesota Minnesota was in the early in New Orleans. And I called New Orleans and said, I want to see like in the seventh row. I do not,

if they always want to put you on the floor somewhere. Yeah. So I don't want to sit on the floor.

And then they were like, well, we're worried about security. I said, I'm good. And me and Sam to sail set in like the six or seven to row. We played New Orleans the next night. And it was a ball in fans were talking crap weird. We remember at the very end, I turned around and say, see tomorrow, we're going to keep your ass. It does a laughing like we had a ball. It was it was so fun. So it was cool. All right. Well, it's good to have you back. Congrats on the Hall of Fame, by the way.

Oh, thank you. That was pretty cool. That was cool. That was awesome. It calls awesome. I think I know I'm going to ask. I can't tell you yet to you can figure out. Yeah, I pretty probably have a guess. But it's going to be, it's going to be a really cool thing. And when you make it as a coach, you make it become all the people who work with you and play for you. You know, you really do like, so it's more of a faithful thing for me. Awesome. Well, it was great to see you.

I'll see you in the West Coast Los Angeles. Very soon. Great to have you back. Mr. Abdelam, good to see you. Thank you. Good to see you. Thank you. Good seeing you. And now it's time for a new segment in Brace in the era. It is brought to you by new era,

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back through time with some of the most iconic court to finding moments with the new era and be a hardwood classics collection. Let's be honest. Little hard to top the legendary 80s logo. Some people are partial to the 90s when we started to get a little wacky, but the 80s. Oh, yeah.

It was going to the games with my dad, 1974, but the 80s when the league became the NBA. Magic

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your first order. Check it out. All right. My friend Nick Collins here, mid-level boxing

promoter. Also works for WWE. Mid-level. You become an upper class rest boxing promoter. Mid-level boxing executive. Kind of white. Dana White is a promoter as you know. Smith-level boxing executive. Foxing executive who also has bull riding reporting into me. Bull. So don't think about the bull riding. Now that you're a big deal, don't think. You know, mid-level wrestling or you're just mid-level boxing. Also bad.

We haven't had you in the studio yet. You do one interview a year. Other you did to this year before WrestleMania. Because you asked for in the last Vegas for you journal. Yes, sir. My question. Press your father. My parents still lived in Las Vegas. My mother passed in 2019. All is good. So he still lives there. Still subscribes to the hard copy of the review journal. And he was the one person when the article came out who said,

"Hey, there's a big article." Yeah, it's like, "Wow." On you and the review journal today. Yeah, couldn't believe it. My dad does the same with the globe. Hey, you were in the media notes in the globe today. Do you want me to save it? Look now, I'm good. Yeah, saving put in that plastic sheet, you know, put it in your scrapbook. But just in terms of the studio last year, your microphone, it was like circumference 42 inches. No, we've had a very good last year. Our stuff looks good.

We look like discount TV shows now. It's on Netflix, from 4KHD. It's good. It's all good. I've watched the life seems to be pretty good. So you're in the bad back club now. So welcome report on that. Are the old man club the bad back club ridiculous? Yeah. So I'm going to try to sit. But I told you my theory, though, it's 95% stress. There could be like a traumatic, like you get in a car accident or, you know, you're on a roller coaster and something like sort of course.

But for the most part, it's usually sitting habits and stress, which is what I tell everybody.

“But here's the only thing though. So you and I have known each other for almost 20 years now.”

Yeah, I've never seen you externally stressed. Now, I don't know when kids are in a down,

you know, a family in the sense, but you've never called me with some version of, I'm not stressed. I just think it's part of your life. I think whatever stress, but you have way more stress now because you're in charge of bull riding in WWE and your mid-level boxing executive. So this is the most stress you've had. Listen, this is an easy life compared to jobs you and I may have had growing up. That's true. All right. But what I would tell you my decision, so I went to public

school in Las Vegas. Yeah. But NASA high school. You're like, I've never heard of that school. This is a public ice school. But NASA high school? Yeah. All the old Vegas high schools were all Western themed, Rancho high school, Shopper L high school, Western high school. But NASA high school.

“Okay. So that's just El Dorado high school. So that's what they all were. I was like,”

should I go to college? Should I not go to college? There was, you remember when you and I were younger, you look for a job in the classified ads? Yeah. It said, you know, now hiring in 1992. I believe the minimum wage was $4.25 in Las Vegas. $15 an hour. Come work at the Marina Hotel while we transform it into the MGM. Who? It's no problem. I went down there. It was a kind of a construction job. They said, hey, you signed up. Okay. I said, what I need to do? They're like, you see that huge

pile of rocks. They said, yeah, like you and the other guys need to move that pile like a mile away. And I was like, no, left and enrolled at UNLV. I was like, I was a buzzboy in high school and all this stuff. That was all fine. The moving the rocks thing. I'm like, this is too much for me. I have a similar experience. My buddy Jim Brady and I, we went and worked at some tent company at the beginning of the summer when summer and I was one day it out. Driving home, I'm like, I'm not

going back. That's that's the one that I'm not doing that again. I had a job in high school with

you know, first day. It's like, at that time, when we were younger, the manager's role is kind of

assholes. Yeah. Right. Kid, you know, you're two minutes late. It's going to be a big reflection on, you know, your future. And I was like, all right, I'll just quit. That's that. That's not just quit. You can have someone else bus your table. See, I've many. I don't know if we talked about this on the pod, but I don't even remember how you became an agent. Did you do the mail room thing or did you get back into it another way? I was a lawyer, sort of, successor. That's what it was.

“That's Freddy Roachman, he packed me off. I remember that. I just had the amnesia.”

Yeah, because of Freddy and Mani started going to a lot of the boxing matches met Jim Lampley met Max Kellerman, who's in business with you now. Yeah. And sort of representing those, Joe Testotour, met those boxing announcers, started representing them as a lawyer, and then went to become an agent in the sports media space. So as you see, the best agents that didn't start because they wanted being agent. Yeah, I have this thing also. And by the way,

it would apply to Ben and to my children, Sunny and Natalie. When I was an agent, if there were young people assistants who I liked, I don't say, you know, where you're from. Anyone who answered, I'm from LA, I'd be like, you have a wear. And it was recita, Sherman Oaks, you know,

you know, Huntington. It was never Hancock Park rentwood. It's just different. Like, you know,

perhaps your son goes to run a hedge fund or run a team or something like that, but most of the agents come from a little more working class. Yeah, it's true. The good agents are ways. I have a bunch of normally I don't have the iPad with questions, but I want to make sure to miss anything. I see you're always your, your Ollie's sweatshirt. I wore the Ollie sweatshirt for you to get the boxing. All we got to talk to you in boxing books. We'll start

with the wrestling. I want to move into the whole armada that you guys have created with the combat sports basically, but the wrestling, WrestleMania 42. You're sure. Just seeing the 42 makes me feel super old. It's just kind of like fuck 42. I like I remember every aspect of that week, leading up to the first one, and now we're at 42. It's kind of jarring. There's also like it. I compare it to WrestleMania one, which I watched from the LA Sports Arena on close circuit.

We're in Los Angeles. That weekend. But I also compare it like people talk WrestleMania 18, and I'm like, it's second. That's now 24 years ago. Right. Right. It's those things when you reach one was 18. 18 was that Hulk and Morgan Rock. Yeah. Right. But it's those things you read and like, you know, now, if you look at 2002, that would be like 1985 talking about 1962 or whatever the math was. And that makes me feel like man, these years of flying by. The thing I really hate right now,

Instagram just knows how to bring my confidence down. They do these things now where they show some, I don't know if it's AI or how they do it, but it's like an actress or an actor from the 90s. And it's then now and then it's like, here's, you might remember me and then it goes backwards a montage of when they were young and then it goes back to them looking like us now.

And I always get really depressed. I just got some Instagram last night. It was Andrew McCarthy.

And it was like one of those where it went backwards and forwards. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like this. I don't want those anymore. Right. All right. Why Vegas for the second year and we're out for WrestleMania. So number one, we had a great experience last year. The Las Vegas Convention and

“visitors authority led by a guy named Steve Hill was a terrific executive. I think I first noticed”

when the Super Bowl was there a couple of years ago. It was probably the most seamless, Super Bowl I had seen. Yeah. I think a lot of people were surprised by that. Having lived there for most of my, you know, pre adult life. It didn't surprise me at all because there's no city that can handle that quantity of people. Yeah. Better than Las Vegas can. So we set up WrestleMania last year. It was quite successful. We decided to go back to back, you know, fingers crossed.

Let's see. It's kind of bill for it. It's bill for the everyday people. It's bill for like what you guys have to do with flying executives and celebrities in and out. It's easy. Millen Hotels. There's other stuff going. You can turn it into a get-in and out same day or turn it into a weekend. Yeah. I'm lucky. Even if you look at the media business, the current media business now. Yeah. The easy question, Sansa. Where's Disney primarily located? Yeah. Well,

where's Netflix primarily located? Where's the ringer primarily located? LA. You know,

“I think it was New York and I did for news. It's still considered New York. Where's David?”

New York. New York because of the giant stadium piece. It's tough. Yeah. It's hard to get to stuff. I think LA works now with so-fi. I think would be okay. I'm trying to think of some other ones. Yeah. We did so-fi in 2022. It worked out phenomenally well. Yeah. I think there's three things the West Coast undisputably destroys the East Coast and for a WrestleMania. No, in just in general.

destroys the East Coast. Mexican food and sushi. Some food, sushi. Trying to think what else?

I would throw weather in weather. The given. The sun's 75% of the year. My daughter FaceTime made it as she was walking around. We're in a T-shirt and shorts and Boston. It was like 78. No, 78. It's like that. 78. I'm like cool. Welcome to the last couple days of my life here.

“About 78 here you put the air conditioning on. Yeah. Hot. So what are the big challenges now?”

Like give this WrestleMania coming up where you're coming off. 24 was awesome. Right. That's like a reduced. With a couple years after COVID, bring Cody Rose in. Just like one of those great signature WWE years. Then last year was the senior, which I thought worked great. Thank you. Now you're in 26. It's really tough and wrestling because everybody either wants to say, you're red hot again or you're not as hot as you were last year. And it's just one of those two

extremes. And it feels like the business right now is in the, yeah, it's not like it was last year. And that's kind of what happens. The ratings are a little bit down. The attendance is a little bit down. And then people just latch on all. So how much of it is real and how much of it are, are you just not concerned about? So here's the good thing. A year ago. So right after WrestleMania last year, Triple H, you know, and I got together and we said, okay, let's take a look at the future.

Yeah. Let's look at our top male superstars. Cena was obviously his retirement year. We have, and you tell me if you categorize these as our top men, Roman in some order, Roman, Roman, definitely. Cody, punk, Seth, rock. So if you look at their ages, it's cool. I don't attack a tire in there, too. Yeah, put drew in there. Yeah. And he adds to the narrative. Okay, they're all 40 years or older. Right. So we said,

all right, we got to make sure we're preparing for the future here. We went down to our performance center to see Shawn Michaels and Matt Bloom who run that on a day-to-day basis and run an XT, you know, with us. And we said, okay, let's take a look at the talent here. How come DX, for example,

“when it was first starting a pop? Triple H, I think, was like 26. Yeah. Why is it taking longer?”

And Shawn said, there's one thing we could really use the company's help on. We need to be able to tour NXT because doing it from the studio every week, you don't get the authentic fan response that young wrestlers need to know if their work is working or not. Yeah. You know, it's a lot of different regions. It's going to respond differently. Correct. It's different. It's sort of like Randy Orton shows up in St. Louis. He's getting all the cheers in the world.

He shows up in a different city. He doesn't. You need to know how to react to that. He said, we need to be able to take NXT on the road. Great. No problem. Give us a week. We came back to Shawn. Let's take it on the road starting in a month or whatever it was. And then you saw the quick acceleration of Oberfemmy. Yep. Trick Williams. Giovanna Evans soon to be others coming up from NXT. And one of the matches I keep hearing people talk about is going to be the opening

match Sunday, which is Oberfemmy Brock Lesnar. Right. Right. So Oberfemmy, it's PN. Right. That's

Maneus PN. Yeah. So first night of ESPN. Pardon me. First night of WrestleMania. The first hour is on ESPN.

Two. An ESPN unlimited. Second night Sunday night. First hours on ESPN and ESPN unlimited. So Sunday night, we open with Oberfemmy Brock. It's a match when Paul and I sat together with the number of other folks said, the seems to have a bit of a hot hand here. Yeah. Let's start big.

“New versus old. Lot of, lot of good stuff. Lot of good things. And, you know, I think Brock's”

work has been phenomenal. Ober's work has been phenomenal. If you cut the go home show of Rob on each chance. Ober's promo with Paul Hayman was phenomenal. So with fingers crossed. Right. But we think that's all working. So if we're publicly traded company part of a public traded company the results are the results. Right. Thingus cross. But it's interesting what you're hitting. Because

that's always been whenever there's been a wrestling Renaissance. It's usually coming from a

young group of people that maybe weren't expecting. We didn't think we're ready yet. You know, when it happened with Triple H in those guys in '97 and it happened because WCW was building like an all-star team of older guys and by necessity, WWE had to like pass the torch to young people and hope they were ready. Right. Think about this. You remember when they brought WWE with Sergeant Slater back in the late '90s who was sort of like a GM type personality and Triple H

was really going from Hunterhurst, Helmsley, to Triple H. It was with Sean, early DX. And they put on the sort of like construction mask if you will that had the windshield wipers because they would say

stunning Steve Austin come over as the ringmaster and I remember seeing him being like that's stunning Steve Austin now he's a ringmaster like I don't know if this is going to work and then boom it Jake Roberts king of the ring. The shield 15 years later was another one right but over the 15, 16 years later think about how quick. Yeah. Those guys they had it they put they had it you knew it immediately immediately immediately you and I. Well that's a we yeah we we talked about it

early. Yeah, but that's one of those things where most of the times you kind of have to have it right

“away. I think very rarely are they're the late rumor guys there you know like wow.”

Well by the sky this is happening now like LA night was kind of like that he was older when it happened for him but the most part you kind of know early it's like basketball. Yeah I think even in in broadcasting even when didn't you do a commercial early on was it with Kevin McKenney main pool side? Oh I did main street with Kenny Mahind but it was like oh who is that yeah but you were saying things that other people weren't saying yeah and it was like well who's that and then you'd

start reading your columns and for me it was like referencing the karate kit like in a sports

column like I haven't seen that before but karate kit is you know you're the one who first

how to it it's one of the handful of perfect movies it doesn't mean I like to think so tell me a flaw in that movie I think it doesn't get enough credit for being a great 80s movie. Avaltson doesn't get enough credit. Great sports movie and a great 80s movie and really well done. Avaltson doesn't get enough credit maybe because Rocky is not perceived the way

“that it should be perceived. Oh no it's because of karate kit 3 I think that's what he'll”

have. That can do it. He should just take it his name off and pretend it he was like John Jack Jacobs. Yeah the guy who did uh what was the uh Eddie for a long history act. Yeah the director changes name. Oh yeah he took his name off. Yeah because Ed Norton was like in the director sing Avaltson should have done that with with three. You're big you're big Rocky guy. Love. What year one two three four rankings? So second half of two is the best

Rocky of all time. But the first half or two is the first half first three fourths. I think I think on rewashables one of your guys said the moment she says win. Yeah that's it. Until it's it's the best 30 minutes probably about time phenomenal. Every scene the music. Yeah the score in that we know how great the scores but somehow it's not remembered the way we talked about that on the pod about people cheering in the theater which is the only time I've ever really seen that

for real. Like people cheering like it was they were at WrestleMania or something. How about also and you have a number of phenomenal books here that then later became movies. Yeah how about going to the movies and it was sold out. Right you'd go and you'd be like okay we want to go see Rocky too. Sold out who wins the next show you know 11 30 PM okay well what else what else you're showing here and you'd go see an alternate movie and stuff. That's starting to come back with the

IMAX but you can still see like L.A. is probably in anomaly because they have so many theaters here but you see the if the IMAX is sold out you kind of have to go and do the laser I guess. So it's a little but I do feel like the movies are a little bit back not like it was when we were growing up. But at least you know before you go when we would go and you'd walk up and it's like so and so Rocky too sold out. Right we should combine tickets. Yeah at least you can buy you know in advance

and goodbye. You just did the Nikon thing where you you moved away from my original question. What do you mean? We thought Obo Brock. No but we are not open. So the ab and flow of the business it's a little bit of a down right now but it's not too far down but it's it's not as high as it was

“two years ago. So you think the key is build around the young guys because some one of the”

criticisms is always that you don't do as many house shows now. Guys aren't on the road as much.

There's no reasons for that. It's because the way the business used to be these guys would get run into the ground in five years. Think about every wrestling documentary you've ever seen. Yeah. Usually about wrestlers in the 80s started off with I was on the road three hundred days a year. Right right it's no way and then you saw the results of that forget family life but you saw what people would do to make sure that their bodies could perform at that level.

Yeah. So you know that's like me right now. What are the things I have to do to get you know do a four podcast a week. I really have to also listen to you. Keep it on see what I'm doing. I understand it's very hard and by the way because of our age which we started off with I'm sure you have a

stretch man now. Yeah. Which is always an awkward like connection to me. Some man stretching my leg.

I don't know. I don't have my own personal man stretcher but I do find myself doing things I never thought I would have done in the past. Like watching TV but making sure I'm sitting on the floor just

Pete Bavakua who's the idiot Notre Dame and just a random conversation a couple months ago he's like

“yeah I just worked out he was on the road and I like my my how long did you stretch and he's like”

dude I was the only guy in the gym. Those are all young people. I'm stretching out you know this man I'm like they're all looking at me saying there's the old man. You know I haven't talked to him in a while. He was the greatest guy as a high school kid. Like we all that he was younger than us but we all loved him and I totally wasn't surprised that he's super successful man. Love that guy on a road. He had great people skills and he was like 15 totally. Yeah. Love that guy on his broker

and you know in his stream job which I always applaud people for. Do you think as you get? By the way

how much power to you know we haven't talked yet. I'm not the one that sells stock all the time like they like they was see that. Listen I'm sold more stock. How did we start this? A mid-level wrestling boxing executive with bull riding reporting into. Yeah we I would save the bull riding combo for the end. Listen I don't know if people are going to start. Part of the reason I came

“here today is to try to take out a personal loan from you. Not that much money for you. 30 40 million”

dollars. That's fun. It's no big deal. I was the best in the public. I actually I was asked to invest. I don't know when did when did I do the whole UFC thing. It was like 16. What did you do that you didn't believe? I didn't. I actually I could have because it was it was baby doll was in there and they asked Jimmy and so I actually looked at it and I really studied it and it's hilarious why I didn't invest because I I should have and I really believed that you have seen I thought I was going to keep

getting bigger and the reason I didn't invest was I came to the conclusion it was too dependent on media rights deals and if they didn't get the media rights deals the way they thought they're getting the media rights deals it wouldn't have been worth anything. So I was like I'm not doing an amount. How that worked out? Terrible. It was a complete misread. It was actually like the conclusion I landed on was the exact opposite of what happened. They were completely right.

Media right deals were exploding. All these great things were about to happen and I was like I don't know I don't see it. I don't see the case. By the way I passed on investing in sweet

greens. I'm like that's never going to work. There's plenty of that on this end. On the UFC side

if you think about it it's part of the opportunity we see in boxing. Yeah. If let's go back to 1984 for a moment and you would know it better than I would but this is off the top of my head. If I said you who are the most famous athletes in the country. Okay so Jordan still not pro. Bird magic, Joe Montana let's say and then a bunch of individual sports stars. Yeah. Mac and Roe, Nicholas, Mary Lou Retten, Carl Lewis, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bumbu, Mancini, Evil Canoeville,

Chris Everett, Chris Everett, right? And then you fast forward a mere 10 years to 1994 and the leagues have become the leagues and BA is going crazy. Vienna fell is going crazy. The individual sports, outside of WWE and subsequently outside of UFC they all stayed the same. So the question

we know this the people would always ask is who's the heavyweight champion of the world? You

would know it. I would know it now and who's the most people don't know it. Who's the fastest belt on the planet? The sanctioning bodies are ridiculous. The belts messed it up. I knew Marvin Hagler's the middleweight champion. I didn't know him as the WBC into a middleweight champion and recess. It's nonsense. It's absurd. Max and I when Max was here we were talking about when there was that crazy super middleweight run. When we had all those super middle weights at the same time

and I figured I think it was maybe show time. Yeah. Had them all fighting each other and that was one of the last times I felt like oh there's real structure to this. The super six. Yeah. It was called in the best. Which seems like but everybody's trying to do now at boxing and I think from a boxing standpoint I have more choices month to month than I think I've ever had before. Look it's Turkey all shake is certainly trying to do that and it's certainly done it and put

his money up and made fights that no one was going to make. So if you look at what the promoters were doing on their own, the boxing promoters it was well let's just have our guy fight another one of our guys and then finally you'd get arrow spends who I give all the credit in the world to didn't have to give Terrence Crawford the opportunity. This was pre Turkey being involved in boxing

“knew that the fans wanted it gave him the opportunity. But that's why we don't get that correct”

because people point to arrow spends and like that's what that's the worst case scenario. It's you get absolutely obliterated by bud. I understand. And then you don't have the same drawing power anymore. It's it's no different and this is not directed at you and I know it's a young patriots team but the patriots deserve to be in the Super Bowl. They got beathandily so what?

the Super Bowl. You're hurt by the Super Bowl. Well I just think it's setting off a chain of events.

“Now my coach is in a scandal. I have that going and like I just feel like we're it's going to be”

the year from hell. I'm already resigned to it. Not jinxing anything. You have the right you be. Of the right you be. Hopefully it's healthy. Yep. Not jinxing. The boxing thing though. I feel like there's more awareness. But the thing is I might only feel that way because I have a lot of people in my life who'd like boxing. So we're like the zone had a fight you know it had a card in England last week or last Saturday. It was early. The Tyson Fury. That's like shit.

But Netflix. Sorry, Netflix. Sorry. Whoops. Employer of the ringer. Yeah. I'm going to leave that in. Sorry. Yeah. I'm not going to edit that out. It's going to be more of my old age. Netflix had it. James Spencer Bell out enough you've heard of science people. The zone was two weeks before. Netflix was last week and it was starting like 11 o'clock PT and you know but it was just it just feels like every week. There's something. Look, think about things that Turkey's getting

right and separately. Netflix is getting right. One of them is a selection of dates. So it used to be

“if you remember like a bow Holyfield. The fanman fight was in November. Yeah. Remember when the”

fanman came in and they had to put like blankets and everything around. Oh and Holyfield to stay warm. Outdoor venues, Caesars Palace, Vegas in November. Very cold at night. You know for West Coast certainly very cold. Like why are you going so heavy during college football season? It's insane. And by the way, it's not just college football season and that was, you know, November. But if you just look at the fall, okay, what are the foremost popular sports in the United

States if you buy for Cape Pro and? Yeah. Call it. Okay NFL college football NBA, college hoops, MLB having a bit of a renaissance right now two strong world series. Sure. You're going with postseason baseball with a stacked Dodgers team, which you know when you get the big teams in it, it tends to matter as you know. Yeah. October's a no-fly zone now for the stuff. Why would you go so boxing did it? You talked about this the last time you were on and I

thought it was really smart. How in TKO just in general, like UFC just like, hey, let's rethink how we're approaching the calendar. Why is WrestleMania this weekend? Why can't UFC take advantage of this two week window here in August? We're nothing's happening. Why can't we put a box in card here? I feel like it feels like the sports card, my dance card weekend to weekend is more filled than it used to be. Instead of just the weekends where there's too much stuff and you're

all right, guys. I guess I'm going to watch this instead of this. Totally. So a couple of examples of this. Yeah. When Dana Ari Shapiro and company made, Mayweather McGregor, triple G Canelo had already been announced for middle of September of that year for Mexican and Independence Day weekend. Yeah. And I remember speaking to Dana, I was not working with him at the time. Speaking to them, and he said, we're going to go the last week of August, pre-laver day. And I said,

hadn't Vegas. He said, yeah. And he said, you know, the Vegas routine, most people are going to come in. You're going to go to the pool. They're in the theater at the pool or an air conditioning.

“You got it. Yeah. And that fight, I think is the highest-grossing paper view of all time or”

second highest-grossing gate path after, you know, Mayweather, back, yeah. And I was like, that's brilliant.

When we all started together at WWE, which is now almost six years ago, coming out of COVID, we looked at our premium live events calendar. And we had one. I don't remember the month. You would probably remember the month. This is in 2021. And I asked the founder of the company said, why are we going up against Tom Brady's return with a Tampa Bay Buck and he's at New England? And he was like, I didn't, I don't know. Like, what should we do? I said, let's move to Saturday night.

Right. Right. I'd rather go up against Alabama, LSU, and it's prime than Tom Brady's return to New England with the Tampa Bay Buck and it was great. Do it. It was very easy to sort of make those changes, which we did. So even on, on WrestleMania, April 18th and 19th, two years ago, and Philly was final four weekend. That was the last deal we inherited. Why would you look at the final four this year? You had three, in my opinion, hot teams, Illinois too, so maybe four hot teams.

But you had Hurley, you had, um, who would be them? Well, Michigan, Arizona, Michigan, Arizona, Hurley, and Illinois. Right. Why would we want to go up against that? I noticed a great weekend that everybody didn't realize was a great weekend. When they went to two weeks between AFC and FC title games in the Super Bowl, so much better. There was that weekend between

the two. That was basically a wide open weekend. You're just going against like basketball.

Role Rumble would go the Sunday of the two conference championships. And then we moved it to

“the Saturday because it's a wide open night. Yeah. And then you quickly realize where you can't”

book an NFL stadium because every NFL teams hopeful that their team is in one of those two games. So on a pro Bowl at the time was on it like noon Eastern or Sunday, daytime event. So 90% of the country's still cold. People are used to watching sports on Sunday. People are you think the first day of weekend in since late August. Correct. Yeah. So why not do it then, which we did in rating skyrocketed. And then summer, some of the opportunities are,

you got to look, make sure there's not a men's or women's world cup to make sure there's not a Olympics. There's never a year. You got to avoid it. You don't want to go against the Olympics for any

reason. So think about this. First weekend of May, always was a big boxing weekend.

Oscar Delahoy would fight on Cinco de Mayo weekend. Right. That's a Mexican Latino. It's kind of a made-up or beer holiday, if you will. But it's a good time to go to Vegas, whether it's perfect, you know, this and that. It's also Kentucky Derby Saturday. Yeah. So you have men and women sitting around a television, especially with the proliferation of basketball and hockey. He also does. He also does like huge games, six games, games, sevens for both sports.

Huge Kentucky Derby's a three-minute sporting event. Right. So if many women are together, okay, what do we want to do? We want to watch the NBA game. If our team's not in it, there's a, oh, there's a big fight on TV. Great, let's order it. But why not do that with the

precness, which even if you read, I'm sure you did the news yesterday that, hey, the precness may

move a week later. So instead of being two weeks after they can talk to you, Derby, three weeks. Why would you not have done that years ago? Give the horses more of a chance to recover, create more of an opportunity. One horse wins both races. Then you have a triple crown contender at the Belmont. Why would you not have done that? Horse racing, much like boxing, fragmented. This track owner does this. This one doesn't like that. There's no unification to it.

So with Zufa boxing, if we can replicate the version of a league, if you will. Yeah. NBA, NHL, NFL, UFC, WWE, with a best fight, the best there's consistency of programming. And you know, no one's going to duck anyone. Maybe we have a chance. You still conner, Ben. What do you mean? My stall. What do you tell you? Grabbed them, brought them to your team. It had to be done one

“fight deal. I thought he looked good on Saturday night. There was some on that. That's what the”

question on it. Yeah. Progress brought it. But that's part of the idea of like four injuries. Yeah. Yeah. He being admitted after like, yeah, I was really hurt. But I felt like I had to fight anyway. He didn't. He didn't have to fight. But yes, yeah, he's game. And look, it's part of the Zufa legislation with the Muhammad Ali Enhancement Act is that insurance for fighters will kick in when training camp starts because as it's set up now, fighters only have fight night insurance.

Hmm. So if they get hurt seven weeks before, a lot of them will just go through camp hurt because they can't necessarily afford to go to the doctor and pay for it and all of that. To get training insurance, small things like that. The minimums that someone can make per round to institute those so people aren't fighting, you know, hey, here's 40 bucks. It's kind of like Rocky Balboa, Spider Rico. Yeah. Okay. It's $48. It takes a lot of days in that fight. Take some liberties. Yeah.

And then talk shit to him out. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't say it's dead. Spider Rico. So you're happy with how the boxings going? I'm happy with how we started it, you know, give it a couple of years. Let's see where we are. But I'm not feeding with Eddie Hurner already. We're not, we're not feeding with anybody. He would live in some grenades at him. He's laughing grenades backs. It's great. Listen, I don't know what I'm talking about. From Tony Khan to Eddie Hurner. And I like it. By the way, there's

similarities between the two. What are the similarities? They both work for their dads, which, you know, by the way, I'm going to give Ben Sim and some strong advice. Yeah. Whatever he decides to do with his life, do not try to be a podcaster. Ben Sim is just not want to work for me. That will not happen. Why? He was the forge's own way. Of course. Yeah. That's a way it should be. Yeah. Right. You do everything you can. It's his father to

set him up in the world. By the way, he should use your relationships. He should do whatever he can. It's a bit of a dated reference. Frank Sinatra Jr. Should have done anything other than being true. That was the worst case there. Yeah. He should have said, hey, Dad, I want to be a music manager. Can you introduce me to people? Sure. I want to book venues and shirt. Isn't that Ben

“Sim and should not be a podcaster? Nor will he be. I just read something. I think I want to say”

it was Bill Gates, but it was somebody like that who had their kids when they turned 21 and or they're going to. They were in that range. And he met them. They'd dinner. And he was like,

each of you $10 million that we need to forge your own way. And that's it. You're not going to

anything else. I get it. By the way, I read and you don't have to worry about that because Sonny 's going to be like president. Listen, Sonny's already like a freaking mafia head. Like you can see me at these games. He's shaking people are coming up to him. It's like watching Michael Corleone and Godfather too. Well, I listen, I appreciate the Michael reference, especially since we named him Sonny. And in two, especially, he's definitely not going to come work for me. Nor

will our daughter Natalie. Yeah. They're going to. And of course, I will try to help them get into the boxing. If he's passionate about it, and he earns his way in. And by the way, there hasn't been a weekend where I've traveled for wrestling or boxing where he has not traveled with me. Yeah. And you remember, you and I were at WrestleMania 10, he's 10. Yeah. WrestleMania 2016, we were both at AT&T Stadium for WrestleMania 2016. And you said me a video

of so Benz 18 now, he had been doing all the moves. You know, so it was eight to my Instagram. That's like peak slamming pillows wanting to spear you. I'm sure, you know, this and that.

I told you this. 8 to 10 is the peak little boy age. It's amazing. 8 9 10 home run. It's amazing.

They're the best. Comes with me on the weekend. Can go in any meeting that I'm in. There's one role. You can't talk because to me, he hasn't earned his right to voice his opinion. So he takes notes for me. That's good. He listens. Listen, absorbs it. Correct. Listen, absorb it. Be in the room that your father has earned his way into. But don't think like you're here because of you. Yeah. And I found in combat sports when you have kids whose parents are somehow associated with it

in it, I haven't seen it work. It might work one day. I haven't seen it work. Well, you being you inherited a company that had Benz with his two kids working, but the daughter Stephanie was really good and wired with it. But not like Benz. phenomenal. It's a son really wanted to run the business and his own. And that was a lot. Some of what we did the documentary about

“this really interesting dynamic of father's son. Didn't you go to the same high school as him?”

It was we lived in the same city when I was in high school, but we didn't go to the same high school. Got it. Oh yeah. Okay. Got it. One boxing piece that developed in 2026 was obviously the big conflict and the Middle East that's still going and a lot of the money for some of the stuff you guys were doing, other things were doing. It was tied up over there. You had plans to go over there. Like what? Like is this just a wait play by air? Like not a fun topic, but I have to ask.

I have of course. And by the way, just so all the listeners and viewers know your guest house bigger than my real house. This room bigger than master bedroom at my house. So I'll come

stay here for a while. All right. You're always invited. Thank you. Yeah, look. It's a tricky situation

there. Keep mine. I'm the child of Iranian immigrants. Yeah. And you know, a little bit different than most Iranians in the United States and that my dad came in 1952 when he was five. So in essence, I'm a little more second generation than first. So I don't have family that I've ever met who's there. But obviously monitoring the situation on the business side and on simply the political side. Number one, we'd never send our wrestlers or crew anybody into a no environment.

But hopefully this thing clears up in the not too distant future. And I understand hope is not a strategy. So it's a wait and see approach. And you know, they did affect like all the plans you

“guys had for the next three to five years. It must have at least a little bit, right? No. I think, you know,”

Turkey, as you know, had the Tyson Fury co-made event, Connor Ben, then with us fight on Netflix, not a different carrier. This past weekend from London. Yep. So that fight made or from Tottenham. So that fight made sense at Tottenham Stadium. And you know, we'll work around it and work through it. But nothing's going to affect it thus far. So you're dealing with all these different places now, right? That for WWE, the boxing, you don't deal with the UFC as much.

But everyone settled in their partners, but there's a big courting process sometimes with sure. What are people better or worse at this than they were 15, 20 years ago when you had like during like the John Skipper era? And now you have like Netflix has fell on Gabe and all those people. And East Panna has Jimmy of Tara and Burke and Paramount has all their people. And like what's

“what's different about the whole process than the 2000s? Anything? Why I think look, I, I,”

I, I happen to be in a bit of a more senior seat than I was, you know, early 2000s. Yeah. So in dealing with Bella, Gabe, Brandon Reed, who lives down the street from here, by the way. That

affluent. Great. Brandon Reed, who, by the way, I've said this many, many times told me and Stephanie make man pre-COVID. I don't know the Netflix ever gets in a live, but if they do,

“you should line up your international media rights because Netflix is not going to do a deal with”

WWE that says, hey, great news. We have WWE in three countries. So at that time, we started putting the process in place where the international rights would all time out with the US rights and boom,

the Netflix deal a year and change a go, which has been a game changer for WWE. So therefore,

phenomenal, you got new leadership at Disney, with Josh Tomorrow. You know, the time was obviously right for Bob. He chose in essence, Bob Eiger, his timing, and left quickly. The time was right in 2020. Listen, it depends on the successor. It's hard to leave. Look, I'll tell you this, if the coach of your favorite team had decided, I'm just going to be a broadcaster and shut it down. And if the person who was the president before the current president, it said,

I'm just going to be a one-term president. I think they both be remembered far differently than they're currently remembered. Yeah. So it's important that you get out of it before it gets out of you. And that's something we'll have to hold each other to in like 20 years. It's tough. I totally see it. It's tough. Like even somebody like Laura Michaels now, he's still producing SNL in his 80s. It's also like when you've worked hard, like you have like, what are you going to do every day?

“That's what I, I still love what I do. And I still feel like I'm good at it. I don't know five”

years of Ralph. Like the question for me is, how would you know if the signs were there that you weren't as good? Who, who, who and your life would tell you, hey, you're not as good. I don't, I don't think that conversations ever happening with anybody. But I've noticed like, I really

thought about a lot with Stern. Stern was the first one that I really felt like I had a

court side seat to no pun intended of just like really watching how he ran everything. And then really feeling like he was starting to lose control of the narrative a little bit. The last couple of years, who was there. And he couldn't see it. But I think it affected his like sail a bit. To me in business, there's pirates and there's Armados. Stern was a pirate. Yeah. Right. Hey, I'm coming to Los Angeles. I'm going to kick Mark and Brian's ass or whoever was at the time. I'm going to chew

them out. Correct. And then city bus figures. Yeah. And then you think about the stuttering John stuff at that time way ahead of the game. Yeah. Just crushing everybody. And the things they would talk about in the character names like way ahead. And they're also in the pirate became the Armada. And to me, when that happens, you usually see a little slippage. The pirates need to stay the pirates. Wait, you're talking about Howard Stern. Who are you talking about? David Stern. Oh, I'll strike

that love, Howard Stern. He hasn't slipped off. You tell me, is Howard Stern has this, uh, I would say he's another one. Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting one. I mean, that's a good other good example. So, and by the way, people, people who defend him, they say, well, no, you know, it's a smaller universe now. I don't know, seriously. I was talking about David Stern. You were talking about Howard Stern. But the conversation, if you did a transcript, it seemed like we both understood with the other

“on the same. So, I think that a good time for either legacy. Listen, if there even is a legacy.”

But like Dana White and I at times, I'll say, hey, they're entering championship rounds. He thinks fifth round UFC. All right. Right now, he obviously thinks, you know, 12 round, you know, boxing as well. But even if you look at the vernacular boxing and the falloff on it, you're still here at this is like a heavyweight championship fight. Yeah. You know, uh, he's taken an eight count. You know, you can run, but you can't hide, then you hear the UFC

come into the vernacular where everybody uses tap out. Yeah. I'm going to tap out. You know, there's an other, you know, sort of lingo introduced by the UFC into the American culture. He came part of the zeitgeist. It's part of the zeitgeist boxing. We'll see if we can get it back in. But yeah, we were talking about two different strengths. I mean, maybe same issue. One thing with that, I think the difference in 2026, I really noticed this with Amazon doing the NBA

this year. I have no dog in this race. I don't care who wins or I just want to enjoy sports. But I think with Amazon, the most interesting piece to me was that Saturday afternoon game they had, and Sacramento Denver was one of a couple of scopes, but they would have it. It would be like one o'clock PT, right? So four o'clock ET, so late afternoon, but then overseas, prime time basically. It's on like nine o'clock. So you have this Wimbie Joker game and now I'm in

all these different countries with it. And if if I'm the NBA, I'm like, this is fucking incredible.

This is what whatever this is is where we need to go for going to grow the game.

on Amazon, which is a good thing because I think they do a good job. It's a bad thing because I think there's a lot of people who aid don't realize their own Amazon and be maybe don't have Amazon and are going to be like, well, wait, what about? I don't want to get Amazon. So there's a little bit of that, and I want to see how that shakes out over the next couple of years. But by the way,

analogous to that, when the NFL started doing the European games, I never believed it was solely

for the purpose of what we wanted to develop a European fan base. I thought it was to develop a fourth Sunday window. So if you say, on the East Coast, wow, you know, 10 a.m. Eastern, that would be really early. You live in LA, I live in LA, 10 a.m. Pacific, you're up watching football. And if you say, well, 7 a.m. Pacific, you know, on the West Coast, that would be far too early. If you look at the ratings and share in Hawaii and Alaska, they watch it just as much as

the rest of the country watches it. So I always believed it was to create a fourth window, which it seems like it's heading towards, in addition to establishing international fans,

“which I think the NFL first mover in that space, they've done phenomenal work.”

That's the only one you really haven't, we could probably talk about pretty freely, because you're

never going to cross pass with them, right? The NFL. It's just how they, I think they're freely.

No, but I think they're fascinating, because they're the only entity that sells games, matches, events, whatever, that can basically do whatever they want, and people just have to take a big gulp and then put up with it, right? I don't know what they're capable of, but this deal they're about to do is now that the paramount margin, all that stuff is allowed them to basically blow up some of their deals, reconsider them. I'm prepared for anything.

Like, the Friday night rule with the high schools, are they going to go after that? Are they going to add 18 games with two by weeks and stretch the Super Bowl out and basically going to February? Yeah, probably. Are they going to have an international game every week? They might. Are they going to just add four more teams, add a nowhere? I don't know. Are they going to be on seven different platforms? Maybe. The WMBA is on seven broadcast partners,

like to me, that means the NFL could do it. So could it just basically be everybody gets a small piece of this and they're just like, this is the price man. You're the pioneer, you're not. We don't inherit it. But it seems like that's where we're headed. Everything you laid out has or could happen with the NFL. I'd also, if I was college football and you hear the conversations about executive order for NIL and this and that and second most popular sport as we just

talked about in the United States, but it makes the fifth most amount of money. I'd be looking at that Saturday night and saying, we know the NFL jumps on Saturdays as soon as college football regular season winds down, you know, post office worried about being exclusive on Saturday night. They did it with the college football playoff. Yeah. You know, hey, we're going to go on

“Saturday at the NFL games and the playoff. I think went head to head on one of the”

NFL players with the door for the NFL to be like, okay, guys, I guess, I guess, I guess we're battling. By the way, think about this also. We discussed this internally that does not mean it was our exclusive idea, just so clear. Myself, Shapiro, Dana, Ari, a number of other folks. Black Friday. Amazing day. Black Friday is no different than Thanksgiving day for a lot of people. Okay, some people go line up a 3 a.m. to go, yeah, you know this. But for the most part,

people are sitting around with food and there's nothing to watch. So the NFL puts a black Friday game on and others rumors that they're going to add a second black Friday game. Well, there's a rumor of the Wednesday before Thanksgiving game. You said, we discussed internally also. And again, I'm not suggesting it was our exclusive idea at night before Thanksgiving. There's a lot of people at home. Like, maybe that's a good night for boxing.

“And take a name for anything. Anything. Yeah. There's nothing on. That's like Netflix. I think that was”

a stranger. Thanks, night for them. One of those times are somebody who says the major TV show, that night. Christmas Eve. Yeah. If Christmas day, if you have five NBA games in the NFL said, oh, we're going to go take that also and put three NFL. Well, I would, they're not these sports on Christmas Eve. So there's a lot of these nights. I think what happened was the traditional

thinkers would say, oh, people are traveling. The reality is, you know, in my phones off to the

side, even iPad there, we can watch whatever we want, wherever we want. So yeah, when you're traveling, you're actually still the audience, whereas I think in the 80s, it was a little different. If I went to like, I can poke with my family in 1988, if the hotel didn't have the channel, that was it. By the way, when Rhonda Rousy fought Holly home in their rematch, it was December of whatever year that was. Yeah. And I was in Mexico with my family and I looked up what bar has the UFC and we

Correct. So you're streaming it to your hotel TV. So even even 4th of July weekend, different this year, 250th anniversary, 4th of July is actually a Saturday. Yeah. So there's a lot of free, you know, entertainment out there. But that weekend, and in my prior profession, we really pushed the SPN to have a boxing match on that weekend from Australia. That weekend is wide open for viewership. So open that people watch the hotel union contest. There's nothing

on. So if I do it, we can tell you. It's again, summertime for us, wide open. How about last weekend

“at June? Because the draft they even moved it up, I think even closer to the finals,”

from the NBA. So now it's like that last weekend at zero. Shockingly, you would say that. We have a PLA on June 27. There you go. There you go. What are you the most excited about for WrestleMania? I think Roman punk is really interesting to me. I think just from a career versus career standpoint. Yeah. I think, you know, punk said it again on the Go Home show. This is my first one on one WrestleMania. Main event match. You've had Roman several. And, you know, obviously punk left

for a while and, you know, came back and it's done phenomenal work. You know, with us, that was a coup for you because I would have voted no on that one. You know, it's interesting to like, you've dealt with quote unquote talent. You may be quote unquote talent. At one point,

one of your employers may have said, oh, he's difficult. I never found you difficult. But what's

“difficult? I had the last laugh on that one. Yeah. Look at their fucking house. Look at,”

nobody's just like the difficult thing. It's like, all right. So only one company thought I was difficult. And yet all these other people have also had the exact same issues with that company. Maybe it's the company. Agreed. So even on punk, like, okay, when he was in his 20s, he said certain things that, you know, he shouldn't have said, who? What ambitious guy didn't, what ambitious man or woman didn't do that? But I, I get, I get where you're going for here.

I do think even he would admit, I'm a lot more humbled from some of the stuff that's happening to me. I see things from a different perspective. If I go back, I would maybe would have done some stuff differently. It's been pretty open talking about that. Sure. And look, maybe that applies to you too. Maybe it applies to me. Also things I did earlier in my career, that I said to myself like, actually, like, can I, could I have been a better teammate? Yeah,

like there's a little aggressive for, you know, whatever it was. But I'd always rather have that,

like, hey, let's rain it in a little bit, then go be more aggressive, because that never works. Right. You can never get me one to do that. Punk said, like, the same stage that Justin Rose was at at the masters just now. Justin Rose was 45. I picked him to win the masters. And you almost did. He kind of blew it in the final nine. But he's 45. And in golfiers, you're kind of near the end at that point. You can, you know, maybe still make a run in a, in a major until about 50.

But for the most part, you're, you're probably still a real threat until 45. 46. Wrestling's a little, a little similar. Like, you can still do what scene it did and be really careful about how you schedule out stuff. But to be a main event, show up all the time, performer. I don't know what that, what the expiration date is. But it's probably somewhere around his age now, right? Middle late 40s. The good thing with him and with Brock, and with scene

a last year, is they've all been quite responsible in their life. Yeah. So the conversation of

“hey, you, Brock, or now punk, you have to tell us when you start feeling like, I'm not going”

the way that I used to go. Right. Tell us. And let's figure out, you know, something else for you.

Again, you have to leave it before it leaves you so far. Now, punk, tourist tricep in his first

world, rumble back. Yeah. Okay, came back nine months later. So far, you know, he's performed at an A plus level, fingers crossed. That's a bad luck injury. It's this decade. It looked Brock, breaker went down and Seth went down. Brock, breaker went down. I mean, was it true? He was going to be in a major, Saturday or Sunday? Well, it seems like it was a major push behind him. That was evident. And, you know, we hadn't finalized, you know, WrestleMania matches or order of matches

at that moment. But you saw Seth come back from the fake injury, which was one of the greatest works of all time in my opinion. It worked. He even went K-Fablet with his young daughter. Yeah. You know, it worked. And then he came back and really got injured. And then Bron got injured. And it's something, you know, we're consistently having to deal with like any others, what's franchise. And it can change the whole season. You just saw with the Lakers. Who's the,

who's the biggest WWE star in 2003? I think there's a shot for a couple people. I think

she has a chance. She has a chance. She's already up. She also passes, though, when you're in the room, test does this person feel like a major person just walked down the runway into the ring.

No question. She has it. Yeah. Not a long list for that. So she's under 20s. Roman always had that.

Always. That was, and that was probably why I've been stuck with him even when the fans kind of type. Like you could feel it in the room. Like he had something, you knew it. Listen, there's certain guys who come in the room and everyone comes, certain men and women who come in the room and everyone comes to them. And then there's other people who have to go up to everybody. Yeah. So with Rea with Roman, soon after. Yeah. When I say the room, I'm talking about

an 80,000 deep football stadium, but it's, you can't really explain it and say you see it. Yeah. Hogan was the number one all the time for that. As soon as he would have been there.

“Actually, Andre probably was. I think one of those, too. I was feel like Andre was,”

even though we've seen so many of his matches, he was like right when I was getting into it. Yeah. So, but if you're there in 1980 and he's walking in a shade stadium, it's the most favorite thing you've ever seen. Were you shocked and/or disappointed or hurt when you then saw videos of Hogan previously slamming? No, I just stayed in where did you go? Yeah, now we knew about that. Well, even when we did the documentary, we knew

because they tore together for like a year. And what was it? 80 or anyone? So we're in wrestling in Japan. Like there's a lot of evidence of that. So we're a couple years apart. Yeah. There's a couple years. But when you're 12 and someone's like 16, that's a big difference. So when I was watching, first of all, when Petera and Stud cut Andre's hair, like I couldn't sleep, that was maybe I was eight or seven or eight. Like that was like

shocking, tough one. And then when Bundy broke Hogan's ribs, I think so Hogan could go to Japan. I remember like sleepless like, oh my god, I can't believe he's my first one. I was killer con breaking Andre's leg, which, while Andre broke his leg, but then they said killer con did it. They got a whole awesome angle out of it. Now is a great one. Because Andre was

laid up. He did break his leg up. You never answered my 30, my 233 question. Ria,

I'm high on Logan Paul. It's pretty good. It's good dude. And by the way, puts him at work.

“So one thing, ultimately like for him, that's what he wants to be is to be in this business.”

Because it seems like he's trying to do so many different things. I think it's part of what he wants to be on a full-time basis. He's full-time with us now. And yet, he does the card, rippets and the Pokemon stuff, and is piloted with us through genetics, he's just turned 30. Okay, that's good. So high on Logan, I'm high on Braun. Yeah, it, we cannot rush it though. Got to sort of let him develop at his own pace.

And he's an excellent athlete who obviously grew up in the wrestling business, but let it develop at its own pace, which we're all on the same page about. I think all three of those obos and obvious one, I'm high on trick. I like the fact that he's an SEC athlete. I like the fact

that he sort of inherently understands media. I like the fact I always look for people who's

inner voice matches their outer voice. I look for that in wrestlers. I look for it in political people. Yeah. You know, if your inner voice matches your outer voice, you have a shot. Trick Williams is trick Williams. So I like that. How much time do you spend talking at Triple H about this about, like kind of what do you think a lot? Yeah, I would imagine this is most of the conversation a lot. That is somewhere from some of the conversations I have in life trying to figure

different arcs or different people we have or we're interested in. But what's working on on your business? Why did that not work? It's like those two people together, there's something there. It's also similar to our business. You got to go your frequencies heavy. Yeah. Like if you tough to get an audience this way, but if you said okay, I only have to do 12 podcasts a year.

“No, you have to be in the mix. Correct. You've got to go every week. The best one is that when you think”

it hasn't happened yet, but you're convinced it's going to happen. Because we have like not to single up out. But we have this college football podcast called Ring or Tailgate. Then I just I know it's good. And I know it's going to be a bigger thing. And I feel like this season. It can be a bigger thing. And I just like we just have the right group of people on the right chemistry and this is like a show that's going to work. They speak about

college football, the way that people who are real college football fans. Yeah, you just want to hang out with these guys as they shoot to shit about this. And it's like it's going to happen this year. And if it doesn't happen, I'm going to feel like it's my fault. I sort of look at things the same way. I know Triple H does also. Yeah. If someone has all the tools in the ring in Ring

on us. Right. Right. The creative and if they if they fuck it up, it's different. And there's a

lot of chances to fuck it up as you know. Well, and sometimes it first, especially in wrestling,

if the guys get the smoke blown up their butter early and they're doing pretty well, they can go to their heads. We've seen that many times. By the way, in all professions, when fame comes early 20s, you see it with athletes all the time. Or center anchors, this is having all kinds of people. You saw in the media business over and over again, you catch Lamar Odom, documentary on Netflix. I didn't watch it. I've had, he knew the

whole story. Yeah. I know this story. By the way, I was at UNLV when he was supposed to come to UNLV. Remember, he signed there for a moment before he went to Rhode Island. Yeah. He was so good, so young that you almost wish like he wasn't that good. Right. Because the things that you can't teach, he inherently had. But the things that you had to manage, he inherently couldn't manage. And I don't mean to critique his life. But sometimes when you're so young and so good,

it can mess you up. Basketball has a lot of those. A lot. I mean, one of the most famous ones ever

“was Marvin Bad newsbarons who I think had probably topped 25, forward talent. It was just,”

but just off the court, complete disaster. And there's a couple of guys now that I want to mention that we worry about. One thing you guys are doing that I love that I feel like I'm responsible for this. I can't take any credit for it. But I have mentioned it to every time we talk.

I love managers. Just feel like we never had enough managers. I don't know why we got away from

that in the 80s. So now you have macophie. Yeah. That's maybe a heal manager. It seems like we're headed that way, which is weird because he's also doing a show in his pit every day where he's not a heal manager. But I fully support it. But just in general, and then Steven A said this week that is that true? Did you talk to him about potentially being a manager? Listen, you know, love Steven A. And by the way, he's bringing his show first take two Vegas for WrestleMania. He

would be a phenomenal manager. He's any wants to be a heal. Most people say they want to be heals. He really wants to be a heal. They want to be like the cool heels like all in Nash. They don't want to be the monster. Macophie came in as a monster heal. Different than who he actually is on the show is easy. Macophie's easy going guy from my point of view. Monster heal. I like you

have always said bring back more managers. It's something again when Triple H and I went to go see

Sean and Matt Bluma year ago. We said, hey, look, keep in mind also in addition to the in-ring performers accelerating their path for ones who may just not have an in-ring or who bodies may break down. If they're good on the mic, send them this way. By the way, managerial ringing answers, you know, there's plenty of work to be done. I don't think there's like a ringing answer school. Who do we think is the best manager of all time? I go ham and Bobby Heenan. What do you

“say? I have, I think Heiman is the best one I've ever seen. It actually guiding kind of owning”

the room. Sometimes like in a way like that, uh, some of the best wrestlers ever can really like everyone kind of shuts up what he's talking. Keenan was crazy because he could also wrestle and would get thrown around get his ass kicked. The grain wizard, like that whole era, so I don't really know what his gimmick was, but I was scared of him as a kid. Albano, Lua, Captain Lua, Abano was great. Do you know that's people Vaco's like second cousin?

Oh, that's a press. Yes. Yeah, that's a press. Lua, I'm going to lead like legit. But the cousin or uncle or something like that. My favorite one is as a teenager who couldn't get a date where Missy Hyde and Miss Elizabeth. Well, listen, so we haven't really brought the 90, late 90s kind of brought it back a little. I still feel like there's some need on that bone, too. You're also talking, you know, mid 80s, you're 15, 16 years old, Missy Hyde.

It's an important group, though. Yes, 9 or 10, Missy Hyde, pretty attractive. By the way,

“did you ever catch that she did one Piper's Place type thing for WWE that didn't work out?”

Of course, it was called like the Missy. Yeah, I didn't go well. They had one major thing on it. I had some questions. I said, yeah, of course. I don't know that you did that. Well, there was one that was making the rounds. Something happened on one of those. There was a game really eventful. I can't remember where it was, but there was some sort of major thing that happened in the storyline. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I forgot you had it, didn't work. A couple questions

from my buddy's Gus and so. Yes, sir. If you could change the result of one match since you've taken over, you'd just go back and Mulligan a match. What would the match be? Why don't know that

is there one Mulligan match over, like, half fuck we should have danced it. It's good question.

“It's a great question. As I think it through, I think Cody, not beating Roman at WrestleMania”

2023, was the right move at so far. Yeah. And making it wait and right been another year and doing it in Philly was the right move. What about you? What would match of you seem? Shocked my memory here. We were like, I shouldn't have played out that way. Mine is more like, I just don't understand what happened to the world, Rumble. Maybe it was just because where it was located this year. But I used to like when they were like the five or six completely random,

oh my god. Retrieve and thought about this person for 20 years. Oh my god. That's Kevin Nash. He's here. And I don't know why we went away from that. So I'll say there's one inherent issue that is solvable, but not as easily solvable as it used to be. Now because as you know athletes with science and working out in this and other careers go much longer than they used to. Yeah. If I said to you, okay, who from the late 90s and WO, you know, who do you like to see come back? But

there's no one. So hogan, rest and peace. So yeah, so you don't must have to go to late 2000s or early 2000s. So the thing about stone coal retired when he was 38. We're just talking about punk is 47. We're tied to 38. And see these are good points. Right. So there aren't Kurt Angle, by the way, I love Kurt. Bad news just had double knee surgery. Can't we can't clearly medically? He could come out and do something on the mic and all of that stuff. But there aren't

men or women where you're like, I'm just as readily available. Never even to talk. I came back

10, 15 years ago, assumed to talk up how oldier than years now, 65. Yoke is in us still left. No. Another question, would you ever consider doing the 80s thing, using WWE to mirror things that are going on in real life, like some of the political stuff? That seems like that ship sailed 20 years ago. It's too tough with the political environment now. Like to have ice officers arresting like you're never doing it. That would be crazy. That would be awful. Could you do like,

I don't know, somebody like a super left liberal wrestler as a heal who's just like constantly correcting everybody or do like a super maga, like you just would stay away completely from all that stuff. We did it for a moment in time and NXT when we were coming out of COVID, the guy who's in the Wyatt six now, Joe Gacy, was before he would, let's say, body slam you, he would apologize. That didn't work. But he's like, I'm very sorry that I have to wrestle you.

You know, I'm very sorry that, you know, so like a politically correct angle. Right, everything I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Something there. I mean, it is one of the great things about wrestling is it always mirrors

whatever time of it was happening in. So you think, look, go back to the 70s and 80s stuff. You can't get mad at some things that were happening because it was like, everybody was cool with it. Really, the only time people weren't cool was the sergeant slaughter Hulk Gulf War, like that whole era. That was the one time people were like, yeah, what are you

“guys doing? This is crazy. The thing about it, like life is wrestling wrestling is life.”

Yeah, both reflect one another in my opinion. The sergeant slaughter thing when he's like, "I'm now at a rake synthesizer." "Rake, what are you doing?" "Rake, what are you doing?" "Bring's in the iron sheet, because general Adnan brings in, uh, no, brings in iron sheet, as Colonel Mustafa brings in Adnan al-Kasey's general Adnan." It's insane. She's speaking forcy. Adnan is a single craziest thing they ever did. I can't believe

nobody stopped it. Uh, one other question for those guys. Yes.

"When do you become a character?" Never. Never. That will never. I'll never do it.

Never, ever, ever. I'm a behind-the-scenes guy. By the way, if you remember my prior profession, I never asked to do podcast, did podcast, did interviews. I believed for me as an agent. It was best for my name to appear after pay to the order of only. Now, to publicly traded company with WrestleMania coming up, it's different. We obviously want to get media coverage, but Triple H will do most of that on our collective behalf. In terms of a

character, it was also a real life executive, but never, ever, ever will that happen. "What's your biggest fear for the next 18 months?"

“"Listen, I think there's a lot of concerns in the country. I think there's some concerns”

with the economy. I think the middle class started getting squeezed 10 years ago. So, you know, people with money are fortunate and they have a lot of disposable income. You know,

during COVID, there's not my original thought. So, we're clear. People wanted to buy things in

COVID. Now, people want to have great experiences. And WWE and Boxing and UFC, which I've nothing to do with on the business side, they're all great live event experiences. So, if you can get it right, really to people go home to support it. Hopefully, we get it right more than we get it wrong. Live events, movies, concerts, feels like everything people want to be around people again. I also think a big piece of that is you can just kind of live a month straight and not see

other humans if you really wanted to, or you've less connected to you, people don't go to the office every day. There's a lot of places where it's like three days a week or two days a week or

“work remotely. I think it's one of the last places where people don't go to bars in the same way.”

No question, by the way, restaurants, look at the restaurants closing in LA. There's a number of reasons, but it used to be in LA in a Thursday night. There were 15 restaurants. If we saw what's going somewhere fun for dinner, 15 spots you could go to. Now in a Thursday night, you're going everything sleepy. It's different. People are like, they're doing food orders and they're just grocery shopping. Yeah, so I've some theories on that, by the way. So, food orders, like you said,

I also think the proliferation of personal chefs where it's not just billionaires who have them, so you can have someone come cook for you or cook a bunch of things. Cook a bunch of things. And I think four celebrities with the iPhone tough to go out and public. What are you going to go? You and I are going to go get drunk and someone's going to catch you on an iPhone, acting drunk or even speaking to your wife. You know, I'm sure you see what people are like, maybe not in Los Angeles and

other sorts of people recording you like all those bill Simmons as Bill Simmons. Like why would Leonardo DiCaprio subject himself to that? And then fewer people go because of that.

“I think that the lack of drinking is a piece to this, too, with the restaurants. I don't think”

people drink the same way just at all. And even like it was talking to a Shang and I were talking about this recently because he has a bunch of theories on this. But saying like when people whatever this is at the 20-something generation, you go to the bar, you get a drink, you just pay for the drink. And if you if I bought you a drink, you would immediately Venmo me your side of the drink versus like keeping the tab open. Sure. Nobody keeps the tab open. I've noticed that when

I keep the tab open at a place that bartender always seems really excited, people are keeping the

tab open. So some of the habits, I think are different. But I think the postmates and the food ordering stuff is really hurt. It's just way easier to stay home and eat. But think about it. When we were kids, you could really only get two things for delivery, pizza and Chinese food. Yeah. Now you can get everything delivered. So to your point. In formal money standpoint, because if you're throwing it, if you're driving the restaurant, maybe there's parking or ballet or

whatever, then there's a service tip. It probably is a cancel out from what you did if you did

“Uber eat or whatever anyway. So just so you have it changed. But I think live events feel like”

they're even more. I'm so happy movies came back. Shime. Movies are back. Like for real. And I think companies have come back, but horror movies have come back and big tempo stuff, I'm back stuff. And it feels like that at least is good now. But the way we went to shoot a Ryan Gosling movie, week three. Yeah. Still packed. Packed. Packed at the IMAX version in the valley. What used to be the arc light? Sherman Oaks. I think it's now AMC. It's great. So you still feel like from an attendance

standpoint, even though you're down a little bit, the live experience still matters and it's not something you're worried about. Listen, we're down like a single digit percentage. Yeah. So one or two percent, whatever it is now. Not concerned about that at all. Get seen as retirement tour, which we planned for. Assume people were going to it was real. It's the last time you're going to CM Russell in this city. We planned for it. Okay. We have, you know, a crop of A plus listters

who can main event. Okay. They're not in their 20s or 30s anymore. Let's plan for that. It's all about trying to see what's around the corner and getting ready for it. No different than your business. So right, originally it was, you were the Hoops guy. Right. Then you branch out. Now you're doing movies. Right. It's like, well, nobody's doing that. Okay. Why was kind of the movies guy? I referenced karate kid earlier. No one else was doing it.

Right. I was like, why don't I talk about the other movies that people want to talk about. Yeah. So it works. And what's ESPN brought to you? I think it's still weird to see it on sports center. I have no idea if I like it or not. I can go in there. Yeah. No, they're really covering it

like a real sport, which I would say. I like because I'm always like wrestling, but it's still,

not against it or for it. I'm just like, wow, this is crazy. ESPN used to not acknowledge wrestling.

“And now they're interviewing so-and-so on the 6PM sports center. Just strange. It wasn't”

keep my 20 plus years ago. WWE was on UPN. Yeah. And the Nashville network, which became the national network, which became TNN, which became spike, which is now paramount. Yeah. Now we're on Netflix, USA, ESPN, you know, it's worked out in my opinion, great for the consumer, great for the company, great for our athletes in terms of their potential across over like rock and cena and the

bellows. And then what is? You always want the good partner that actually is glad to have you and

it's pushing you. For sure. And I also think, um, I don't like when deals get inherited. So, Della was the driver of the WWE deal at Netflix. Yeah. Jimmy Potaro was the driver of the WWE deal at ESPN. That's a good thing. The successor, as you know, rarely just says, I'm just going to do what the predecessor did. So I like that the people sort of in the seats with a big champions. Yeah. And you know, have certainly showed up and turned out for us. Bonus question

before we go. How's your back? Can you make two more minutes? Yeah, we're good. Um, I have a question

“for you before we go through. What was your takeaway on the Netflix paramount Warner Bros. Love triangle?”

What did you think Netflix was going to win? It's certainly appeared that way, but I also thought, you know, you have a legitimate billionaire on the other side who was willing to subsidize and you've got your shares correct. It's no different. If David and Larry Ellison wanted to buy this home, when you wanted to buy this home, I would bet on them to get this home. Then God, they didn't thank God. This is a nice studio. It's beautiful place. Yeah. As successful as you are, it's different,

right, levels of wealth. You're like super, super rich. So you felt like as soon as so Netflix is a head, seems like they're getting it. And you're like, I'm not counting out the elicense yet. If they really want this, they're going to get it. Tough group to count out. Yeah. And I have no inside and

for I've only read what's available, you know, publicly, but in my opinion, they were never really

out even when Warner Bros. Discovery wasn't answering tax and this and that, having gone through and I get it. It was WWE and UFC merging, which seems to have worked quite well under TKO, having gone through through a semi-similar transaction. Yeah. Right. Warner Bros. Discovery does not have a controlling shareholder. So it was going to be up to the shareholders at a certain price, purely up to the shareholders. At WWE, it was also purely up to the shareholders. So long as Vince

McMahon was not treated any differently than any other shareholder, which he was not. So whoever

“presented the best offer for the shareholders was going to get the company. That's how I saw”

Warner Bros. Discovery in Paramount and you had one side with unlimited capital. Yeah. Paramount. What's your question for me before we go? I mentioned the term perfect movie earlier and said karate kids are perfect movie. Doesn't mean it has to be an all-time great movie. Perfect for what it wanted to be. Correct. Tell me off the top of your head what are other perfect movies. Perfect for what they wanted to be. Yeah. Social network. Perfect movie. Silence of the lambs.

Silence of lambs. Really good. No flaws in it. I'm not saying all time. I'm not saying it's the godfather one or two. But when I watch that movie, I'm like, they didn't mess anything up in this thing. That's what I consider. Because even heat, which is one of my favorite movies of the last 35 years, there's a whole Natalie Portman pot or I'm like, I don't know. Agreed. Can probably bump

that one. Social network. I watch like probably every 18 months and I'm always like amazed

how every single decision is the right decision from start to finish. And you know, another one, I mentioned this when I did my most rewatchable movies in the 21st century. And the number one pack was that war's product. Perfect movie from beginning to end for what it was trying to do. I don't know if the sequel is going to be good. By the way, the trailer for the sequel looks amazing. Yeah, we'll see. The original trailer is getting nervous. Look, the good thing on sequels now is

you know, and you've talked about this on the rewatchables many times. They don't have to sort of pick up the storyline now that we left off with, which is what ruined the karate kid franchise as a film. Right, you could have just started a different story. It got weird with Daniel Son and and Miyagi and three. Well, Daniel Son, you're like in your 20s now. You don't have any friends. Why are you still hanging out with the sky? Make some friends your age. What are you doing? Also like in one,

he's fighting for the all-valued championship and first pack. Yeah. Two, he's fighting for his life. I don't know. Two is fighting for his life. And then three, he's fighting in the tournament. He gets an exemption all the way to the finals. I don't know what tournament this is. What are those rules?

question. Yeah. What was worse? Producted three or the new karate kid. Not not cover Kai.

“I didn't see the new karate kid. So that's how much he looked down on it. You wouldn't even watch it.”

I really, yeah, I have a hard time with the money grab sequels. This is like jaws two, jaws three, jaws were brutal. I still haven't seen John Wick four. I started it. I said, I think I'm good with John Wick. I love John Wick. I love one and two, three's fine. When did you cut out on Terminator poster behind after two, after two? Same. Yeah. 1991, two came out, which was great. Alien. I was good after two. I'm sure there were other good ones. I'm fine with those.

Halloween. I stuck with all the way through. That's probably the only one. Just kept going the whole time. Did you get the opportunity to rewatch these movies with your children for the first time when they were younger? Yeah. And were they as into most of them as you were? Definitely some of them. Yeah.

I'm sure you're going through it now. Yes. We were always three, four years, two, early with

movies with our kids. We just really pushed the envelope and probably damaging ways and retrospect who knows. Dude, I just tried to show our children full metal jacket. Oh, God. I wouldn't have done that one. I'm like, you're going to love this. Oh, man. Oh, being seen and one minute and two minutes. And I'm like, okay, we're going to have to do this. It's a wrap. It was rough. Yeah. That's a tough one. Yeah. Some reason I thought they would like it now. We would push the envelope with the horror movies, but

usually know, oh, here's the scene in Halloween when Bob's going to have sex with PJ souls. Like, we're in a fast forward to a little head here. But for the most part, like, we were like, they're going to find this stuff anyway. We met as well like, watch it with them and kind of edited as it goes along with some of my son's son who you mentioned earlier was begging to watch

“eight mile. Yeah. And I was like, I think we can do it. I think we do it. There's one scene in the”

factory. We'll have to fast forward. Opening scene is Kim Basinger on the couch. And I was like, yeah, that's a little way to lower here. We forget certain scenes. I get you can look it up, but that scene was not at the forefront of my mind. All right. So big winners of this podcast was, I think Rea Ripley was a winner. Well, the people that also blow the Paw all the people that run all the streaming companies you deal with. Yes. Me, because you complimented the studio,

do you, you're, you're a true American success story? It's you are. It's what I say about Dana White also, like you went each of you went. You were employed by, for our generation, the brag was, I work at ESPN. I work at this agency. It wasn't in 2005. I'm going to go start my own company and sell it for however many could join as you sold. Well, you weren't allowed to leave ESPN.

You, it was like it was, if you left it, your career was never going to recover. That was

that was what everybody said. Even though damn Patrick, by the way, did fine. You do, but the other way, I saw you when you left the ESPN, you were at a Clippers game, like the Saturday after. I what? Yeah, I went with my friend Ben, like a week later. And I remember seeing you, and it was one of the only times I seen you, I've seen you where I thought you looked like a little

“not sad, but you didn't usually, if I see you, especially in hoops games, it's like, what's up?”

And I'll say, give me your analysis of this game, and you'll give it to me. I don't know who it's like you do, and you know, we'll have a conversation. And then I was like, and I started seeing you build. Yeah. Right. I'm like, I'll do this guy's like building an empire over here. And at that time, when you were doing Grantland, Jalen Rose and Jacobian, all those guys would refer to you as the pod father. Right. And you were wet, you saw around the corner where this whole thing was going.

So in a way, first mover, who also happened to be great at it. And then, okay, my thing,

your thing, it's working, now I'm going to replicate and try to build an empire. You did it, you know, why did it? Are you manual? Did it? All credit to people like that. By the way, Mark Shapiro told me when I called him when I took the WWE job, he said, give me a piece of advice. He said, you're going as a president of the company to keep my founder CEOs, different than regular CEOs. He got to give a little more leeway, because they were the ones that went out and said,

fuck this, I'm going to go start something and try to make it great. Now, you're going to be fired up to start something else. Well, I don't see how they're going to solve the media rights, the new media here at this year. When the worst analysis is ever, it's an all you need is one. And this was a line I saw on CBS Sunday morning. It said, if you have two bidders on one property, you don't like each other, then you're in business. I mean, that's Zazloff. All he needed was

There's talk was like eight dollars at one point. People laughed at him. He always made good

money. Yeah. Okay, yet 600 pound sisters. Yeah, we're laughing him. He went and convinced what was time Warner. Let the Minno swallow the whale. Let me take it over AT&T.

“Took that debt. This is not what's never going to work. Is that sells the company?”

Big transaction credit team. I have no nothing negative to say about pull it off. Hold the question. It's not hard. It is to pull it off. Think about how many people try and how many people fail. He did it. You did it. The others I mentioned did it. It's impressive. By the way, thank you. Thank you for any and a compliment. Of course. It's great. Good luck this weekend. I'm resume now. I'm not going this weekend. Yeah. Take it on your ass. You care about

him. No, it's because my son went to Coachella for three days and we came to the two

straight weekends. Is this the first Coachella on YouTube or has it always been on YouTube?

No, I think they did that before. Okay. Yeah. Because our daughter Natalie's now 14. So this weekend,

“it was a lot of let's watch Coachella on YouTube, which you know, we watched with her,”

which I thought was a great platform to have that on. The Quasar stage never in her to these terms. It feels like they every year, they've uped some sort of visibility with it. Like it feels slightly more relevant as the debt gate is going along post COVID. And I don't really know why. My son was excited. The band he was most excited about was the strokes. It's a 25-year-old

band. Yeah. He was like, they were awesome. By the way, to your point, and what we talked about

earlier, people love experiences. So whatever Coachella is or was, you see the price of those tickets. You see how people are getting there. It's nuts. Right. Now, I don't understand the whole burning man thing for grownups. I don't understand either. Okay. As I said, Coachella combines a lot of things. I don't like having a pain in the ass travel trip, having to rent a place. A lot of like aimless walking. I don't like concerts in general. Yeah. Just like not knowing where to be the whole

time and just kind of feeling like you're going to make the right ends. Not for me. How about the, I like just going to WrestleMania. I just know what's going to happen. No, I will sit here. Yeah. And if I want to go get some popcorn, I would get it. Maybe so on. You get it for way better. And where's the stage? And where's the restaurant we get? Do you want to go there? Oh, hey, don't get it. Hey, hey, hey. All right. That's our old guys on the sofa.

Thanks a lot. Good luck with WrestleMania. Thanks. Well, let me know what you think after. Appreciate it. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Doc and Nick. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Don't forget to check out La Gata over the weekend. It's awesome. You're going to love it. Do narrative podcasts from the ringer. Don't forget to check out on the rewatchables. If you miss basic instinct, fine, kindergarten cops coming up.

“And that's on Netflix as well. If you want to check that out. This podcast is on Netflix. If”

you know that. Enjoy the weekend. Enjoy the basketball hockey. I think it's starting. Socky starting. I'm about to jump out of the Bruins bandwagon again. And enjoy the baseball and enjoy the sports and try to stay married. I will see you on Sunday night with Zechlo. Live a Netflix. Twineau and plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star Cassino or

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