Down Goes OKC! Spurs-Knicks is Here! What the Hell Just Happened? And What Does OKC Do Now? | With Zach Lowe

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[MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Bill Simmons podcast live on Netflix. Zach Lowes here on a beautiful Saturday night. We just had an awesome, awesome game seven.

My favorite game sevens are when it's not just a series at stake, or maybe even a title at stake, but I feel like there's real big picture basketball shit going on. Like air shit, legacy shit, changing in the guard type stuff. And it just felt this way from the beginning.

“And eventually we'll remember it as the Luke Coronet chase down game.”

That was it. It's the Coronet game. Lock it down. The biggest player of the game, Luke Coronet, much alive. The entire series.

Now, where do you want to start?

I mean, that was incredible.

I want to start with what you just said about, you know, Toreco punctuates the game. It's when these world now. And it's absolutely remarkable that the spurs are already here. They're so young.

And they've been a clear championship team for a while now. The experiencing didn't bother me. It didn't, it didn't, you know, limit their chances to me. But when you see them all embracing after the game, all the young faces. They're so young. The joy they have and when he's crying and all this.

It's like they're already here at the pinnacle. And we are. What is it right now? May five four months removed. I mean, it was really not until those December games starting with the biggest tournament.

They played three times in like 10 days until San Antonio won those games.

“The story of the season was, is it going to be 73 wins?”

Are they going to be maybe the greatest regular season team of all time? And have the greatest two year run of all time and start of a dynasty. And the spurs, if this rated that in a 10 day span in December, started this series with a remarkable win on the road. And end it with a remarkable win on the road.

And go into the finals with the air. And Fox looking healthier, Dylan Harper looking healthier. And Wemby at the top of the league and yet use the phrase changing of the guard. Wemby's world. I already want the twenty twenty seven Western conference finals to start because there's going to be a lot of talk about what is Oklahoma city going to do in the wake of this crushing defeat their title.

Hope stash this rising phenom that day and nobody else has an answer for what I want in my basketball fans. Soul is run it all back. jail and Williams. You were injured. We're running it back. Chet. We got a lot of chat talk to do. Let's go into the summer. Learn going to like the Australian out back. Like, dork did when the Maverick's lost whatever you want to do the dark.

Come to come back. We're in there. Go. Yeah, the remote parts of Australia. Yeah. Yeah.

And just and just come back and say, you thought it was a changing of the guard. We're coming right back at you again with the same core group that we had tonight. But these two teams going back and forth is awesome.

And for the spurs to be here is absolutely incredible.

Wow. You just chewed up a lot of storylines there. But there's that was great. It's awesome. Let's start here with the spurs though. Young core teams that make the finals.

This just basically only happens once a decade. 77 blazers 86 rockets 95 magic Lebron and the O7 Caves.

We had the 87 maves almost the 93 Sonics almost. There's been some almost. This is like the youngest craziest run. Even the 86 rockets seem more conceivable to me than this. And then they go down three two.

I picked the spurs before the series. I didn't even thought that could win. After game five, I thought it was a rap because of because of Fox. And because of Harper. They just didn't look right.

Harper looked great in game six. We were texting before the game. Tell them what your prediction was before the game. Well, I mean, my fox. I said Fox was going to have 15 points on six to 14 shooting.

I thought, yeah, I basically said he's going to have a good game. Not a great game. But you were worried that he was going to have. I was worried for the O for 11. Yeah.

And I was like, I like the shot that he was getting in game six.

“And I was like, I think he's just going to have a good fine productive game.”

Maybe to be. So what did he end up with? He was. I think he was 15 points on six of 12. We needed that.

He needed to miss two more shots for me to get it exactly right. All right.

So here's what I jotted down from the everything we would want from a game seven standpoint.

We had two fantastic teams. Yes. With two tremendous stars that I, I think played really well. And I want to talk about SGA in a second. But both of those guys were awesome in that game for different reasons.

And you had two fascinating career moments for those guys, too. You have SGA. You talked about it with Goldsbury after the game six. Like. We're thrown his name around with some pretty legendary guys from the last 75, 80 years.

It would kind of be nice if you had a better series. Could we ask for that? And he was lights out. And then you have Wembe going on the road down three two in a series. Um, battling foul trouble.

We could down the stretch and if like NBC, I thought NBC did it. The crew did a good job today. It was the one time where I felt like they should have been losing their minds. That Wembe got that fifth foul so fast. Because he got four.

And then I'll send you in five. And it's like, oh my god. There's seven minutes left. Is he going to foul out? Or are they going to do it?

They're going to take them out. So we had that. The, the chat self-conbusting piece. Um, which we have to get into too. But Zach, I thought this game had pieces.

I had three series written down. The 81 self-siccers, which were the last time two awesome teams played in a game seven like this. They both had 62 plus wins. Same kind of chaotic rugby type game. Both passers with OKC in the bulls and 98.

OKC in the bull spot of down six down eight down four down eight again down two down eight just just kind of trying to scrap back and getting into it. And yet the bulls came back in one and, and OKC did not. And then the other one I had was the 2016 gold and say to OKC game ironically. And that was in gold state. But OKC just the shots they just couldn't get good shots.

Like you didn't even think about like all the offensive remains in the first half and then Wallace like saving them down the stretch.

But the offense, the nine S.J. offense was so hard for them. So explain it to us. What happened? Well, I mean, Jill Williams and AJ and Mitchell are hurt. That's part of it.

And you take those guys away. And it's like, oh my god, we're real short on creators.

“And honestly, when S.J. didn't come out at the end of the first quarter,”

did you think he might play all 48 minutes of the game because I did? Well, there was two panic things. He ended up, I think, 44 minutes. That was one. And the other was they came out to start the third quarter.

They had Wallace out there and Jay will and Carruso. And it was like, oh, we're diagnost doing this now. Like he's he's worried this game's going to get away. So that there was definitely like he's calling timeouts. I felt like he was desperately trying to hold on to this game.

They did some interesting sub stuff to the center,

especially in the second half where I think he was kind of realizing maybe I can't rely on

chat and I'll start him in the third quarter. But I'm also going to have heart and staying in as fast as I can if he's not there. But ultimately, chat's why they lost. I don't want to do the Monday morning, you know, first take. Just blame a guy.

He didn't step up, send him to Siberia. But I voted for him. I think 30 mom and BA. He was the number two defense supporter in the, you know, of the year. And he didn't want to shoot.

And he got to the point, Zach, where they were throwing a pass, he wasn't even catching passes clean anymore. Like you like he was as far in your head as you can get on a basketball court.

“Would you sat him or would you have stuck with them?”

I think without, I think if they had more options, they probably would have sat him. And then they sat him late from a game when it was almost too little too late. Um, yeah, I mean, there's just first of all, SGA was everything you would ever want him to be in a game where I think there was some actual like career defining pressure on him after six and series.

Like a scintillating game of shot making.

But when you get a guy airborne, the benefit of the doubt is going to go to you.

“Would a guy bite to your pump fake soul badly that he's flying in there?”

You're probably going to go sideways on that though. I thought they took care of that rule. You shouldn't, it's inconsistent. Yeah, appreciate it. But it doesn't matter.

He played like an absolutely brilliant game. And to me, the series, the series changed in game for when they stopped double-teaming Shea. And that was, I think you and I did a podcast after that game. And I said, there's a little whiff of like when the,

I didn't really make this comparison.

But I just, it was the first thing that came into my head of when the Warriors in game four

of the finals in 2015 went with the death line up and started at Iguadala. And you could, and you could sense like, oh, the terrain of this just changed in a way that is not going back into the tube. I thought not trapping SGA change the whole series made it. His life difficult made the Thunder's offense life difficult.

And I had, I talked with Goldberg. I had a checklist for what is Oklahoma City need to win game seven, even at home, because the spurs had been the better team through six games. And the checklist was three things on the checklist. They got one.

I said they needed two. One was a good shade game. They got a great shade game. Two was they're going to need a really strong three-point shooting performance from the role players.

I'm not counting 12 of 35 as checking that box.

“I think that's like 34% they need to better than that.”

They were like 29% before the end of the game. And then the third one was they're going to need to force a lot of turnovers and get out and transition. And the spurs again won the turnover battle tonight. That's been the story of the series in games too.

So they only got one out of three. And the turn and offensive rebounds for there,

which they were getting in the first half.

And then it just flipped in the second half. I've seen the Tonyo 15 up with 15 offensive rebounds. I'd forward half time. Well, and I'll tell you, Dylan Harper had to. And both of them led to baskets.

And then both of them were the result of Oklahoma City messed up a rotation at the top of the arc. And the guy from the corner had to panic rotate up at a shooter who was left open by mistake. And both times, I think it was Harper both times.

The corner guy crashed and got huge rebounds. And yeah, I mean, let's, should we, like, chat? What's the, let's do SJ and Wendy first. And then we can talk about chat. So to finish the SJ thing.

That was one of my favorite games I've ever seen in play. Because I felt like, first of all, worse possible team for him to play, right?

“They have, I think it's just like seven perimeter guys.”

It's the road. And Wendy for everybody to play. Like that's like, that's just, this is what this guy is now. He's the worst possible guy to play. If you're an offense, first player.

But they, but they also had a bunch of perimeter guys who seem pretty comfortable. At least trying to stay in front of him. They were trapped and I'm really smartly. And he was just solving it for two hours. And I didn't think he was doing a lot of the flop stuff.

I thought everything he was doing was just like really smart. Scoring made a couple of threes. And if they felt like, wow, if they win this game, this is going to be, I know he won two MVP's in a row. And he won the title last year.

This will be like the defining game that I'm not positive. He's had yet the first game you would point to. And then he just ran in a gas and Reggie and Jamal, who I thought they'd a good job tonight. They noticed it right away.

They, they noticed he started bailing on the passes and stuff. But that's about as well. So you could play finished with 35. But as you said earlier, you don't have mental.

Now McKayne's taking a most of that Mitchell minutes and playing really well. But Jalen Williams was, that was it. Because Jalen Williams would have allowed them to go bigger, smaller. He would have been the second creator.

And they just, you could really feel it today. They didn't have that second guy. Yeah. And you mentioned the big man stuff. I think what they concluded was.

And just you could see them trending this way. The whole series was. We cannot play another big man with heart and sign because there's just not enough shooting and dynamism on the floor. But we do want to have as much size as possible.

Because Wendy is just so dynamic at the room. We need a second layer of room protection. We would like to play two bigs. The only two big combination we have left. We have any faith that is Jalen Williams and Chet Hongro.

And they just completely separated into those two in the second half. And part of that is like if Chet's going to be as you. Like Chet is a floor spacing off the dribble attacking big man who can play with a traditional center. That's the whole point of him.

And he ended up averaging like 10.5 points per game in the series. And was completely invisible. The entire game.

And you never want to read too much into one game.

But when you play like that in this game. That matters a lot. And it's going to have some lasting effects that he and the team are going to have to get together and figure out like how do we not have that ever happen again? Because that was just not an acceptable performance of a guy from a guy of his caliber.

The whole series was leading to that. And this was the low point. I got this email a few times before game seven.

But Joe from Pennsylvania wrote, I have no dog in this fight.

“But if you're in OKC fan, would you be worried that Wemby is taking Chet's soul?”

I wrote this before game seven. Ben Craven wrote, Do you see any parallels between what Wemby is doing a Chet? And what Jordan did to Drexler?

Greg and Toronto wrote is Chet first.

Wemby the best modern example of two generations on unicorns. Were the mere existence of one completely robs the relevance of the other? Chet deserves praise for not ordering a tiny harding level hit job on Wemby. I mean, we know we're not watching the post game right now. They should all be happening now.

They're going to be inside the tiny harding hit job could be it now. Chet is the out of prison. So here's the thing. I don't see how this gets better. And it's going to open up over Wemby.

Yannis, wow, we're talking about Yannis. Yannis is going to go in the next three weeks. And it does make me think like OKC who felt like their window was the most limitless window possible. And now all of a sudden they're like holy shit. We couldn't even make two finals of a row with this unbelievable setup we had.

Do you start thinking that I just feel like Chet and Yannis that's going to be mentioned for the next 72 hours? And it's not prestige style to do a trade like that, we should say.

“So it's not and I do think you have to zoom out a little bit and say minus two of our most important players.”

We took a team to game seven who is a great great like these were two great great basketball teams. Yes. It's not as if you can come away with the sort of like we've just fallen hopelessly behind the rest of the league and like things have caught up to us. I think you would probably take the long view. If you're dangerous.

I just think you take the long view like we're not we're not far away. We're going to learn from this that's what I said at the beginning I want I want a vengeance narrative to come. I want the thunder to come together and say no no it's still our time it's still our time with this core. We just weren't up to it this time we're going to learn from it and get better next time and about Chet.

First of all after this performance.

How much more does Oklahoma City have to throw in to entice Milwaukee and you have massive second apron issues for the thunder they can't aggregate contract. So it's not that easy to do they're going to be the most what are the most if not the most expensive teams in the league ever. We're talking about that later really quick. But like how much how much how enticing is that to Milwaukee, but it's not like Chet. So it's it's disturbing that they concluded.

Chet is offensively like can't play next to a center by the end of the series. It's just not working. He's not doing anything. He's not even looking at the room. How about why couldn't he have done what Jay will did. Jay will was the spacing center that Chet has been for his entire career.

But what happened, but not only that, like so he just can't really play center at all in this matchup. You can't put him at the five is the only big man on the floor and have him screen and roll to the basket and just do the most basic center thing that Wemby's also awesome at which is be giant and tall and screen and roll to the basket. You can't have him guard Wemby pretty much ever like you're that terrified of putting about the five and having him guard Wemby in this series. It's just right. If there are just a thousand red flags around Chet after this series that it's just he's going to have to dig deep and they're going to have to dig deep and because this this rival is only going to get better in the next three to four years.

Well, you're doing the Tim Connolly. I've now taken over Minnesota.

“How do I create the team to beat the team I just left?”

And if you're okay, see now. You went from we want to have this long window. We have these picks. We're going to try to figure out how to how to navigate everything build around these three guys use our draft picks to maybe move up move around to drafts to now like how do we beat Wemby. You know, do you look at number 12 do there's a Michigan center who's some for three do you just like do you try to trade up and get them. Do you try to trade to trade Chet for for you on S or Evan Moby do you I don't even know and then the other question would be.

Should you even be panicking about Wemby because nobody has a guy to guard Wemby. It's not like there are other teams in the league or like we we have our Wemby stopper over here. There's not going to be a Wemby stopper. They did the best job you're going to do.

I think it for for me. I think it's much more toward that second poll that you outlined is like there is not going to be a silver bullet answer.

In fact, I think if there is one it's more shooting. I think you just I think they were a shooter short in this series and it just made it easy for him to row around and just patrol the pain beyond the baseline. And, you know, they're like Wallace had a good game for them tonight and is a decent shooter. McCain is an up and down three point shooter. I just think they were. Corruso teams are like had a great series. What was he we one of six on three tonight almost dunked on Wemby. That was exciting for about for first. I heard his wrist. I think if I think if there is an answer that's the answer is just we got to get as much shooting as possible and have faith in our defense around it to round it out.

This was their issue last year and it didn't really really weird so we had even though they did play in two seven games but that was the always thing you always would look at the three is the games that got blown out this series they suck from three.

That was the name floating around my head as I was talking. Yeah, and maybe that's a move they make that's another thing is train Murphy. We assume he's probably going to trade over his next three weeks. I think Boston is a possibility.

“We thought whoever lost this match up was a possibility there's a couple other teams, but, you know, you have two three weeks to trade for somebody like that.”

We'll talk more okay see later. Let's take a quick break and we're going to come back and we got to talk about Wemby and just everything we saw in this series and what that might look like you get some next.

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Victor Wemby Yamma 22 years old. If you're going to nitpick his performance in the playoffs, you might say protected offensive boards a little better.

Maybe take your time on doubles. Try to figure out how to get closer to the basket. I don't know. That's all I got.

“I'm not. I'm not. I'm not doing that. I mean, like everyone wants closer to the basket all the time and I think the people who screen that all the time, even though some of them were x players and I certainly am not.”

Our underestimating how fatiguing it is to throw yourself at the basket over and over and over again when you're skinny and you do what he does on defense. And just how hard it is like the days of just throw the ball into the post and post up and back down have been over for like 25 years. The reality is his games are like he broke through the other night and he made took nine threes. I think it is. Jumper was on again today. And he made that step back over jailed Williams on the left wing. I almost fell out of my goddamn chair.

It's always going to be a mix and that's okay. And he's defensively there are just no words anymore for what this guy is doing. I mean, I set it with gold's barrier.

I've wondered where this game ranks five of Oklahoma City's nine worst offensive games points for possession going into this game tonight were against for the whole season playoffs included were against the spurs like it's just a weapon that no one has an answer to yet. You know when you really noticed it when he would come out of the game and SGA was like when when I let Murphy out in the backyard, he just runs around SGA was like he's not out there.

“You can just see like the hop it and step it's like oh my god. Hey, look, that's what the rim looks like you led with it almost as a joke.”

I do think that cornet block if we're going to talk about the Wemby on the bench minutes. I mean, that was if he finishes that fast break heart and Stein or passes it off to Wallace because it was kind of a two on one. That makes it 97 93 Wemby's in foul trouble crowd's going crazy instead it's a block and I can't remember who ends up scoring at the other end to make it 99 91 just it was a castle it was a castle jumper that yeah and there. Their transition defense the entire series was just ball to the wall Oklahoma City just could not convert and transition is consistently because everything was contested the rebounds were contested like credit the spurs.

That's the kind of urgency it takes to beat a team like this four times and like that corner that that cornet block was. Maybe the moment of the entire game I don't know but it's up there. Well, there were two moments when it felt like okay see it was going to make a run and that was one so it's 97 92 640 left Wemby has to come out and then there was that other one when it was. Let's say it was like two minutes left Wallace hit that second three and then saying Antonio inbound of the ball all the stuff's plenty together and they just decided to run though what's throw to Wemby play.

Door took it and okay see just coulda can burn but it felt like oh my god this would be the classic young team fall on a par piece but I listen. I don't know if I can do it because they brought him back a minute later he came back with like over five minutes left and the answers were talking about I agreed like I'm just going at him and trying to get that that that's six one and there are a couple times I felt like they could have attacked them and and they just didn't so there were a couple things stay in Antonio did even in this game to try to try to get him a little more open couple times they just put him in the corner.

Now that the nicks have that Mitchell Robinson finger thing. I assume he's going to play but who knows they'll have towns to throw out him who's a dumb foul waiting to happen all the time other than that who are they going to be able to like OG would be the other one I guess.

I know be guarded him quite a lot I've rewatched all the games this weekend to prep a little Josh Hart maybe I took second or no Josh didn't guard him much Josh guarded Steph castle a lot.

OG guarded him a lot probably towns and and it'll be in Robinson and then there's like random guys who are in these games because their regular season gets a cuck 40 comes in and whatever.

“I think we'll see a little bit of and that is where the Harrison Barnes swap out of the starting lineup for champagne he who was absolutely nailed.”

Wow and this game tonight looms large because when the nicks would play around like that and put in an OB on when Bajama Harrison Barnes was the guy that they would be like or I catch just like stand in the corner with Harrison Barnes and that's safe for you and that's not that doesn't really. Exist any more but the Robinson I just want to flag it now. I think he's a massive deal in this series because one of the other things I've come to believe watching when be is everyone searches for like what's an answer what's is there an answer is there a player.

And like I said, I don't think there is one there's no individual player. I think shooting is an answer and I do think in elite offensive rebounder and that's and lob catcher someone that he's got to think about like if I try to block every shot and even I'm going to miss some. I'm going to get punished on the other end of it or is there a lob threat and I think Mitchell Robinson yeah, but obviously in the biggest game he had like a thousand offensive rebounds right I think that player type is a really important player type against the spurs and like.

“They then if they don't have Mitch Robinson full throttle I think that's a bigger problem in this matchup than it would have been against the thunder.”

I wrote anytime I watch a game like this I always write down in the second quarter to in bold the guys who I think I trust in the game.

So for the spurs I had Wemby Castle Fox, Facel Harper and champagne so it's six guys for them and that was before the Kelvin Johnson Renaissance in the second half right it seven guys really show up in this game not to mention Kornette who had the biggest defensive play. For OKC at the way the by way actually point out that's basically all seven guys who played in the game ever ready other three guys played six minutes three minutes and three minutes I felt great about all of it guys. OKC I had SGA McCain Carruso and then I had I heart question mark and Jay will question mark and those are the only five guys I had for OKC now I didn't have while it's down a while us came on in the site he didn't really play as much in the first half.

And while I should have been on there I maybe I forgot to write him down but. But it's interesting I didn't have chat and I didn't have Kelvin Johnson and Kelvin Johnson who I thought really wasn't.

Good this series but then in the in the second half it he had some big offensive rebounds he had a couple big freeze that I there were some a couple no no yes threes.

And had the right kind of energy correct kind of energy whereas like from from the OKC standpoint I thought was that guy for them last year. He would give them energy with defense with you know just like kind of veteran stuff and he just wasn't I didn't feel like he was the same in this play out look I think it's not second guessing I and certainly I was not alone said after game six like I don't think you can start. In the home grin in hardstyle again in game seven because you're just getting bolt race at the beginning of every game which you've started to Harper and Baylor and Baylor Sherman.

“I again I said after that game I don't know like we always say chest not checkers I'm not sure what Muzulu is playing I think he was playing Bible that night and neither neither chest nor checkers and some Bible.”

I just couldn't believe you started to that line up again to his credit he pulled door real fast and put Caruso in and the damage was not a severe. As it could have been but the like every time. The thunder got there were two times the thunder took the lead and when they took the lead it felt like they had gotten to the top of the mountain and boy what a relief and just instantaneously the spurs would go on like a nine old run to say like no we're going to retake control again the first one is at the end of the first half when they finish on a set.

When they finish on a seven old run right after the thunder took the lead and I think there was another time in the second half and just like that's so impressive to take that punch to have the crowd going like that. 4.3 pointly whatever it was and just instantaneously like oh an 11 old run just happened and it's not just there they're ahead again they're in control of the game again and they got a fight back again from seven eight nine down it just like sensational responses by the spurs.

Right when the momentum felt like it was shifting against them and he had some old school.

Did he win clutch player the year. He might have.

“I think it was the beam team year which was the first year they had to award.”

I don't have my clutch player the year by year thing framed yet so I'm not able to look at it but. But it was the old school fox ended with 15 five he three steals and I thought he didn't okay job anytime he was on SGA too like when you know I don't even really know who okay see was trying to switch SGA on to because it felt like every single guy was at least. You know passable with one be behind them there wasn't like a like a black hole type person and then the next series would remember and it ends up not mattering because it doesn't matter of the guy that's that's behind him like you said yeah.

So champagne hit six threes.

And it was interesting they didn't close with basal I've have basal. He was on the bench I felt like for most of most of the end because they're playing Harper who we have to talk about. Listen man. I've talked about it before so have you 20 year old point cards doing this on this stage on the road is unheard of this is yeah I'm trying not to use the word generational. But we're talking 1980 magic Johnson at age 20 in the finals and we're talking Derek Rose and that bull Celtics playoff series 20 year old play cards are a mess.

They're like they're like freshman in high school just trying to remember what their locker combination is just trying to survive the day and remember where the classrooms are they're not supposed to be running the offense. He had that one when we back down I can't remember who it was and backed him down did the footwork thing and kind of the opposite I think traveled but it felt like a bit of travel but somehow ended up pulling but I just we're going to have 15 years of that. I thought that was such an important game for him because now you know the next that atmosphere is going to be even crazier.

“It's the finals the spotlight's a little bigger but I think they know with him he seemed healthy to me to the last two games which is the big thing.”

Yeah bounce back his bounce is back his power around the rim is back and he's trying to do that crazy dog too. Yeah in the fourth quarter which was probably a mistake but he was like I'm going for it. I'm just getting it. Yeah they killed some clock before but again I was surprised that he just went for it but I'm also not because he thinks he's going to pull it off and imagine if you do. You just I think Chad home where would it just broken into like 10,000 pieces and that would have been the end of him and it's like.

I don't know what you I just don't know what would have happened. The fourth set this is really going to be going to be a tough one for him so Harper castle fox together. This was the dream when you get fox when it's like we'll have these three guys sometimes we'll be able to play the together. This will ease Harper into this the fox on a bigger stage on a better team fox is in Sacramento and would you call them in our over under pod. The hidden burger the NBA said they were headed for a hidden burglow season by the way we have a deer in fox Mike Brown we got off the Indian burglow reunion coming up in the finals.

We have a reunion for them but fox gets out of there.

“The ringer's rich Paul smartly puts him on Wemby's team which was I think a good move and and this couldn't have worked out better.”

I mean you guess where else he could be on Sacramento. I think it was with Russell Westbrook had throws it and waited to see who they pick who they're going to how they're going to fuck up the seventh pick.

So you have that castle was you know I thought he was incredible though series for his East 21 it's not like he's ten years older than Harper.

The defense when he had the four fouls that was nervous for them because it's like I don't know if you can survive if he's out of the game that long I don't know what does he become. What is what is castle in five years for you? Who is he? I mean and all star for sure. Who's the doppelganger who like who is it? I mean you have to think who's a big physical guard who gets by with brute force and passing creativity around it and by that time is probably a more reliable jump shooter than he is now though he shot the three well in the playoffs like I got I'm trying to even think of who.

He plays with the the raw power and like ferocity that he has like he plays as if he plays with like a hatred. Yeah, front of him like I just want to beat the shit out of you and go upright in your face. Yeah, he was tired of career so after seven games the key was head ahead enough of him. I don't know. I don't know when it's coming to my mind is like a great.

The guard wing doppelganger for him. I think that definitely belonged in a different era and decade. I think he would have been really happy in 2003 or 2004.

I don't really know even who to compare him to. So the like a like a meaner.

“Is he taller than Duane Wade like a meaner.”

More aggressive more like powerful Duane Wade.

I don't know. I'm going to go back to the 80s Robin Robinson. So anyway, you have that you have this coronette sign in that they do that was really smart. They played the Celtics perfectly and then. Coronette every time when becomes out they lose the coordinate minutes and at some point.

I had a couple of people in my life who like the spurs were like what's up with this. Coronette what a stiff unlike he's not a stiff. Coronette's a good backup. This is just for whatever reason can't get it go in the series and then finally was able to hold the fort a little tonight. But what's interesting about them going forward. They have the Wemby extension this summer regardless, but they could still kind of dabble and make this team better.

I don't know what you would do because you always want to base the stuff on who do we have in a game seven then we trust and we just went through it.

I'm seven guys. I like yeah, they have small windows to do small to medium things the big things are over. I looked at it a little bit too and I didn't think too deeply about it because the series was still going on there. It's not nearly as like financially dire is what's about to hit the thunder. And. And then and they have the Carter Bryant piece too like if he emerges Kelvin Johnson expire next year, but if Carter Bryant becomes that perfect like.

Defensive physical banger who can also hit threes and play next to Wemby that's kind of what they need. And that the Kelvin Johnson one is a big one because if they end up having to keep him at what a fair rate would be for a guy who just won six many the year get it and they love them and maybe they will, but if they keep him they're going to.

“I think this should probably want to resine extend to resine champagne, they have a team option on him next year for nothing for three million dollars.”

They get pretty expensive if they keep everybody together, but again they have windows now and by the way, we should we always do this thing where we.

We the collective we everybody points out when a team like the rockets were the first team that we talked about like this. The pistons have gotten a little flag for like well they had all these trade assets and they did nothing at the trade deadline and look how it came back to hauntedman the playoffs. The spurs did nothing at the trade deadline and they have a lot of assets and everyone I think thought they were going to do something at the trade deadline and they didn't and they're in the finals so sometimes it goes the other way to.

I was okay with them because I felt like it was probably a year ahead of schedule. They needed a taste around but in the playoffs as it turned out they didn't know they just they're drinking everybody else's blood. But he had just like let's take a year and see what we have because that's like what's the impress they would have done for instance. But as it turned out it turned out to be an incredible move and they have a bunch of picks to like. They're going to be able to have some maneuverability so how many nicks fans in your life.

Where texting you over the last 48 hours asking you who they should be rooting for in this game. Oh just because I had every single nicks fan I knew was like what do you think who who should I roof for and I'm like.

“If I'm you I don't want to play one be in the finals that's why I would roof so it's funny I said this with goldsberry like I just think you just have to say I don't care because.”

The easy answer is like the answer they default to is the spurs because we beat the spurs you know twice and including in the cup and like we looked pretty comfortable against them we killed them at home and March. And the thunder and thunder I'm like I just don't. The spurs have risen to the level where there's just no great answer here at their both bad answers but if dealing with this hurt in AJ Mitchell is hurt I think the thunder might actually be. The better answer because I don't want any I don't want any part of these guys but they're just they're just excited and I honestly like weirdly a lot of them were.

A lot of my nicks fans friends and acquaintances and people I run into were rooting for the spurs regardless because they're just fascinated with when be and they have a lot of people really just have bought it. And to even casual fans about into like the flopping with Oklahoma City drives me crazy and I just don't like the way they play like nicks fans were they're just like you know what let's let's have some fun with one be it'll be it'll be fun it's very least. I am delighted that we don't have to talk about flopping anymore.

Thank God thank God that's over for content and the most fun possible series was nicks spurs even though the basketball historian inside of me was like man okay see. Going through wars to try to win two straight titles like that would be really meaningful that would put them on this whole other. Oh, they're level but nicks spurs is the most fun series and if you're the league oh my god this is like the this is the all time wet the only other wet dream if you're talking wet dream finals. It's this one it's 2016 LeBron rematch against the 73 win warriors coming off the clay Thompson okay see game.

And you have Lemby your next guy the guy who's ready to replace LeBron and curry as as the guy in the league already here.

It's it's like what we had in 2007 except the rest of his team is actually good when it was spurs calves and it's like LeBron's here yeah but he's.

“Playing with guys that have no chance against his first team this is different like one be could actually win it and I feel I feel like we have some history with one be two now and I think the Olympics was really important with that.”

We've even though he's young and he has been around he missed half of the last season I still feel like I've seen him in some basketball games like he doesn't feel like a shiny new car to me. He can't to you right we've not seen for me he's a few years now we've been talking about him is argue with the best player in the league for five months now like he's here he's been in big games that the international stuff was big and the. Yeah and this is you know. Another finals without any of the sort of older generation players that have carried the league for a long time and it's the first I think well I mean depending on what you how you perceive of share or whatever but obviously there is a guy like everyone everyone is fascinated by one being on people who have watched two basketball games the entire year and kind of half watch them while drinking in the sweet somewhere at MSG.

I can't wait to watch this guy play on a big stage he did a thing today in the fourth quarter met it was there was like halfway through the fourth quarter.

Dylan Harper maybe even like four minutes of Dylan Harper ended up with the ball and he kind of lost it around the foul line and all of a sudden there's a fast break and the the okay say to two on one and then it throwing into the left corner to McCain and when he was hustling back and he's unlike the three point line. But somehow challenged the shot and he did like that crazy Wemby like Freddy Kruger movie does and he almost blocked it and if he'd blocked it that would have been the greatest block I've ever seen if he if I had had time I would have gone back and slow to down because he's running and you know he's going to jump at it and you're just thinking.

“He's so big that he's just jare McCain is at least going to know that he's coming but probably also think he can actually get to it but I'm using my head a little bit like to he actually almost.”

He almost had it and it seemed like he did for the kid and that's like to recall on the call God bless him is like oh Wemby did that coordinate contest and I'm like oh if only Luke Cornet could do a Cornet contest like that that was not the Cornet contest that was something all together different I get where you're going he started from very far away but that was not the Cornet contest. Fandle has the finals line for us. Okay you saw it you looked at it. I saw it it was not what I would have guessed I'll tell you what I would have guessed after but what is your guess.

Spurs spurs spurs spurs very slight favorites like what is the proper terminology minus one ten or something like that like minus say like minus one twenty five minus one thirty ranges slight favorites. Yeah, yeah, so I would have said spurs minus one fifty and it spurs minus two oh five.

“Oh, good one favorites very similar to the Boston Dallas finals line if you want to do spurs sweep that's plus seven thirty.”

If you want to do Nixon four Nixon five that's sixteen and one or twelve to one if you want to do the greatest night of basically everyone's life that we know from New York. Nixon and six plus four eighty look up the next one in six.

Shut down New York City. I'm either sleeping in Madison Square Garden or I'm doing a live podcast from the street just drinking with crazy people and you may never see me.

Again, the those are the only those are the only to not sure we see really anybody again. I don't know what happens. I mean that will be the highest price basketball ticket of all time it will be in the running for highest price sports ticket of all time. If assuming we get it let's assume we'd knock on wood that we have a game six and maybe a game seven in these finals. I'm supposed to go there I can't go live after game two because my son is graduating high school. Big moment last time I skipped a game for his graduation was the current game.

It's a career game for Boston gold state. Would you have stated great would you have stated was probably good for your emotional health to not be at the game despite its historic significance. I felt like whatever I did they were going to lose but I'm glad I didn't go.

It's good for it's good for Ben Simmons that he's that he's stayed above NBA players that you don't really know and the bill Simmons love power rankings that he's sustained in these these intervening four years that he hasn't fallen off at all teenage Ben. And and state ahead of the other Ben Simmons who is now a professional fisherman. That was another thing. I was worried he was going to be like what if Ben Simmons had been Wembe de Amma like been the biggest star in the same name. The inside the NBA work Ben Simmons into the six years gone fishing graphic. They must have right if they didn't like one of this opportunity.

You can be on another boat just fishing randomly like not even not even on the six years boat just on a boat nearby. Yes, that get in a boat in the back. You don't have to say your final spick, but are you leaning? Let's save it for your podcast is that close show a great podcast. Yeah, we're going to record you leaning longer series or shorter longer longer.

“I haven't I haven't made up my mind on who I'm going to pick to win, but I will say I think the line.”

I would not favor the spurs by as much as Vegas's favorite. I think this next thing is real, like I think it's legit. I don't care what the level of competition is like to do this for this long and hit and you just know like I know what my eyes saw how they are playing. But the Mitchell Robinson thing is a big a big X factor. The other X factor is the the spurs probably just feel like they won the title even though they have another team waiting, but that was such a to come back three to do that on the road.

It's about as emotional of just getting to the finals. I'm trying to think who would have had a more emotional we just won the conference finals win in the recent history of the NBA because normally it's more veteran teams right I guess okay see beating San Antonio in 2012. But even that wasn't a game seven. I'm just saying winning the conference finals being that emotional to just win a conference finals Miami beating Boston in 2012 was a good one. They were home.

“But yeah, it's pretty rare to have like I remember going back to the 90s because I wrote down is funny. I went through all the game sevens in conference finals because.”

There's rare about the thing today. There was every time it's under 200 points like for basically before 1993 every game has been under 200 points except for 2002 Lakers Kings over time was one of six one or two.

So usually they're rock fights and then for the most part the home teams always won until recently and that was the fifth one in a row that the road team is one.

Which is nuts though home teams conference finals game seven specifically. But I'm looking at the list of most emotional ones I guess little brown beating Boston by himself in 2018 is up there. That was one of one of the most incredible things I've ever seen you played all 48. I know he'd want a couple titles already, but. The emotion of just dragging that team that he had all the way three series that was pretty nuts. It was the only emotional eastern conference triumph for that it Lebron 2.0 and Cleveland because the other ones I'm not even sure.

Yeah, they were like well, what round they were in and someone just told me, no, you're actually in the finals. Now you get to play the West team. You just beat all the teams again. 94 next to every Indiana was one. And then Barclay over Seattle on 93 was another one. And then the most famous one for me was the South. Sixers one in 81 and everyone charged the court.

“You know, that's still, I think the greatest place is that to stockton shot in Houston. Oh, that's a great one 97.”

Yeah, the map maloney team. That's a really good one. But I wonder how much I've left in tank.

Wemby has never played this many minutes for this kind of a stretch. They've been really, really, really careful with them.

Almost like a pitcher not throwing more than like five, six innings. But he was 40 40 minutes or around there for about a month. So we'll see what happens. We'll see what they have left in tank. Let's talk about what happens with the OKC. Okay. I was like to play what do you do with you? So we talked about the safest thing they do is just be like, look, man, we won the title last year. We had a big bull's eye on us all year. It was the first time we became the villains. The floppy thing became a huge storyline constantly.

People just didn't like us. That's always a weird thing to do with for the first time.

And then we had some bad luck in the playoffs. We went against a guy who's the best, the best player of the league. He's had since little brown and curry from a ceiling standpoint. And a team that just took it from us and we were banged up and injured and let's not overreact. That would be the safe smart move.

Okay. What do you think they're going to do?

“I think you have to start getting creative with some of these picks.”

Because the thing that they have is they can go 130, 140 cents from the dollar and a trade. And you're stockpiling all these picks. Now, they just change with a lot of reform. Those picks might actually be even worth a little bit more than maybe they used to be. But, you know, I'm just not wasting this SGA window when he's this good. You know, when he's this is four years in a round hour, he's been one of the one to four best players in the league.

And you just never know when that window's going to end. So I would try to get at least a little creative. What do they need?

What's your all-time fixer? Just improve the chat spot? What would be your move? I mean, but how am I improving the chat spot? Janis? I, again, I have to aggregate like it's it's anything's possible when you have as many picks as thunder have. Beyond trading the restrictions of the second.

I'm not going to let that slide. There are restrictions of the second apron are real and like make it very hard for the thunder to make trades. Because they can't aggregate salaries. They can't take back a dime more. Like there's a lot of restrictions that just make this mechanically much I think. Are they are they over the second apron now or it's next year? They're not over it now.

I don't know if they're over it now, but I don't think they're over it yet. Next year they will. The calendar flips to July 1st. They're going to fly over it. So next year just so people know SGA is 40. But then he goes to sixty sixty five seventy seventy five. Chat and Jada both start five year.

Two hundred thirty nine million dollar deals. They have Mitchell who they resigned at three three and three the best contract in the league.

They have Caruso at nineteen point five. They have team options for a heart and steam. They're they're under the apron now. So they have team options for heart and staff for twenty nine. They have to deal with case on Wallace.

Whether you want to extend him or not get him on a good deal. And then they have Joan Wiggins and J. Will making a combined thirty million next year. Plus Topic and Sorber making nine. Sorber is just a forgotten man just the other mid first round picks sitting there waiting to contribute next year. That they might if they are really under the crunch might have to use picks to try to get it up.

They have the 12th and 17th pick this year.

They have a Quippers swap next year. They have a top five Denver first.

They have a Dallas swap in twenty eight. They have a Denver top five protected first in twenty nine and then they have their own first. What do we do. To mark the moment. When that clippers swap is exercised.

And the Paul George trade ends do we have a. Is it like when like the last episode of Seinfeld. You have like a clip show leading into the final episode. And then a party after. I was thinking like the last episode of the sopranos like every podcast just goes blank.

When they're when they're talking about it and people think we're all dead. I got a bail bag question wondering if they should raise to the banners Paul George and Kawai. Because of all the all the good stuff that that trade. That's not not the worst. So all right. So get creative. I mean, they can do it up.

“They can I think the I think the number one need is shooting more than anything else and I don't know where they get it.”

But yeah, they can bundle a bunch of picks and move up in the draft. They can bundle picks and players and try to get like a low price player and the chat one is chat one's tricky. And did you own really? I mean, this was more or less a lost season for jail and Williams. Like almost an entire like lost season. And now they're going to jump up and make all NBA level money next year.

And that is a proven big three on a championship team. We just saw it last year, but it. We just didn't see enough of it this year in terms of availability and like this this game tonight. I just don't think we can talk enough about what just happened to chat home in this game. Like that was a disaster.

And I'm just fascinated where he goes from here personally. We've also seen a couple times in NBA history where guy had such a bad playoffs. It followed him. Right. It definitely affected dirt for a couple years. There's no question. One of the famous Celtics examples was the Antoine Walker when Kenny Martin just destroyed him.

“And I honestly felt like Antoine Walker was never the same after that second net series.”

Like Kenny Martin just took his lunch and then we mentioned Drexel earlier as another one where Drexel was the second best player in the league in 92. The next year, I don't even think he made it all on the 18. Like between that and kind of being a backup on the Dream Team and getting his ass kicked by Jordan everyday. Like he just wasn't the same after that. So the question is, do you start to worry that that could be chat?

And then if I'm another team in the league, do I feel like this is my opportunity to try to go get chat? And what is chat? Like what if what am I getting in chat?

it's hard for these big guys where it's like we we're doing it with mobly and chat like oh they have this well rounded game like maybe this is your they're going to develop into a 24 point game score and the perimeter game is going to come along.

It's just it's hard and are you ever getting that guy or is he going to be 19 a game, second best defense player in the league, reasonable three point shooter.

I mean the total vanishing of his three point shot is astonishing.

“I think it's like one of the best things about his game and it's the thing that like yeah, okay sure it's hard for you as a big man to a skinny big man to dribble against wings that are guarding you and gets here spot.”

You're not an overpowering ball handler is going to back people down. But that's the thing that should never go away no matter what no matter what where ever you're going to get five open three's a game by spotting on and they just they got I think he averaged less than two attempts per game been was completely invisible in the biggest game of of the year. Twenty seven percent from three in this series before tonight what did he shoot tonight was it like one for two or something he could even take a three didn't you zero for zero so you can.

Wow, so he finished twenty seven percent. Really, it's not the percentage how many did he take. He took 11 three's and seven games. He passed up a couple to tonight that Jamal and Reggie called him out for a right away like wow he's got it. Yeah, like they were about as harsh on him during the broadcast as you hear now, sir.

The only one who will really do that is being gunnedy, but they were over an over again like where's chat what's going on here. Why isn't a ball coverage straight up was like hello. Hello, right like can rich Williams attempted as many three's in this series is chetted. But the other thing is shouldn't he if I had told you he's going to do zero three's in a game seven or ten.

What number would you believe I would have believed the tent because it was like oh they're finally like this is their strategy now to pull Wendy out.

They went smaller with shed at center and he's going to shoot three's but he just I as I said earlier when he wasn't catching passes clean anymore. That's when you know he you're in your head. And with all handling past catch stuff. Go sideways. So as long as they are assuming we're both right that they're under the second apron for like the next month.

Like so let's just let's just do it then do you think chat. Plus you're going to throw in someone else good. Let's I'll just make a picture in some of the extra picks.

Now let's just go chat plus case in Wallace plus silver plus three unprotected first and three swaps including some of my swaps for other teams for you honest.

Do you think it's a good idea. I think that's way too much. I wouldn't have Wallace in it. I would have less picks on less swaps because who might be like to do that. I know but who might compete against who might compete against with for you honest. I'm competing against Miami.

Who I can top any offer they have. And now Orlando because they we didn't talk about this but they hired Sean Sweeney. The San Antonio bench coach who spent what five years with the honest four years with the honest and in Milwaukee.

“And I think makes not the first person to make this point but I think that entered them into the honest chat for trade.”

There's no question. So it's like is Palo on the table for you honest is that even a possible trade I don't know. You might be competing against that too. Sure. I mean again they traded all their picks for design and bane. So I'm not sure how many sweeteners they can throw in there.

But look at the bucks and I could get rid of you honest and just start over and have Palo. As the center pays some I'm doing that but like but here like. The thing about the funders offer offers whatever you want to say compared to the heater whoever you want throughout there is like at least. If I'm Milwaukee and I trade them to Miami where I trade them to Golden State or those something like at least I'm getting picks where I have some expectation that. I'm getting bet against that team being successful and some of these picks might end up being pretty valuable even with the lottery rules changing.

If I trade them to Oklahoma City even if I like flee so Oklahoma City. They're just not is there's no world reasonable world that I can project with those picks you're going to be at a good. And I'm probably not getting any of my own picks back which is another little side plot. I still kind of like the jail and brown deportland. I keep saying and I don't think Boston's in on you on us.

I mean I'm not certainly not since any great urgency from them to break up their team.

“I think the the reason to trade jail and would be to not want to have the to 70 million dollars guys in two years or 65 or whatever it is.”

So to just flip him into somebody else who then's going to want an extension that's the other thing with the honest to me it's it feels like a very unoccacy move.

Be patient but given they when that first okay C run when that was when you and I started working together. And the hard and trade was a big trade for them because they couldn't afford them you know I feel like they could have. But then you look at the next couple years they remember they how hesitant they were to do anything. And then that last year when they thought Katie might be leaving they said that was when they went over the tax and they made some some big swing trades and did like the down waiters and a whole bunch of weird trades that they did.

I think for the most part. He's pretty careful. But one time the Perkins Jeff Green trade which feels like it was 700 years ago now.

“Is it a little bit somewhere to this chat situation I think.”

Where it was like Jeff Green, Katie, Harden, Westbrook those were like their four guys oh they'll never trade and then all sudden he did it he traded Jeff Green because needed center.

And that would be like so we know he could be cut through it if he needs to be. That is now in all star and in all NBA level players. This is just a completely different conversation. I mean there was also the abacca trade which was you know like when they got all the details. Yeah, it's a bigger situation because you're going to get a better putter back the Kendra Perkins. But the other thing is like Janice plus Jay the plus Jay like the the financial I'm not solving any financial issues with with that kind of trade in fact I'm just I'm getting even more expensive.

So I don't see them doing a mess and with you know now you got the brothers there and it doesn't feel like an okay see move. I would say the move would be hey we should have won and Jay the Williams got her and you talk yourself into that world and you don't do anything. But the question is is check going to do the Dirk Australia.

“We don't see him again for four months because he's going to take a ton of shit all week.”

I mean and and look I don't love piling on that was dumb founding like the whole series was dumb founding he had a couple moments in game five and six where he seemed to like crash the offensive glass had a couple nice takes against the cell whatever.

This was just a dumb founding game and what in a game where they the need for anyone to produce offensively other than Jay was never more glaring than in this game and he just didn't do anything.

Wow 32 minutes. One for two. Like you almost looks like it's like the James hard in 2021 Brooklyn game seven box score when he was on one leg. Well and you're like oh he was hurt but shit was healthy for this game and the last the last two things are remember him doing not offense. Yeah, you know he had that nice block on Dylan Harper were dropping dropping an entry pass now he recovered it but it was it took the it took the he like cut into the middle of the floor.

She passed it to him and he dropped it and it disrupted the whole rhythm and then he tried to drive on Victor and you could get the broadcast here and up like here he goes he's going to and then he just like fell over. Yeah. And like he was on the floor and like those are my last two memories of shuttle and on offense. Yeah, it's it does have shades of that Jordan dresser thing but more like it's almost like a boxing thing. Or like what happened with Rhonda Rousey when she was just you know being everybody making everyone submit and then all of a sudden she fought a holly home got knocked out and like lost or mojo and like kind of never got it back she ended losing again.

“And that's why of what I'm rooting for is come back for vengeance because the end of Rhonda Rousey was not that fight.”

It was the next fight against Amanda Nunes.

Look at Zack talking you have seen this is so excited when it was very clear that she was broken as a fight would never be compared.

I didn't I was just amazing let's dig out of it come back like everyone should be fucking pissed off like no we're not ready to pass the torch. We're going to go at that guy we want to do it together. I'm going to learn from this experience this was my low point like I'm coming back next year. Got to be so frustrated that he just lost an entire season lost an entire Western Conference final that other than a few minutes here and there we didn't do much and just like go back out of next year. Got you brought that up.

What happened to Jaylem Williams he played. I haven't in my notes. He played last year he played over 3,000 minutes right. This year you played a thousand I know I know he got hurt. I'm asking you how do we end up with him playing a thousand minutes this year where it wasn't like a knee injury or torn MCL or like.

This is just like a he the hamstring injury that he just kept having for eight months like what the fuck. Well it happens I mean we it happens and obviously everyone is a lot more cognizant of like if we if we push this too far real bad stuff can happen. The hamstring Achilles is not the same but they didn't push it far at all. I mean if anything they push they unpushed it because they were just hoping he could be healthy for basically two right.

Yeah, a wrist injury to that messed up his his his his like pattern in the middle of the season but yeah, I mean look it just he got hurt and every time he played he would get hurt and he would feel it. It wasn't subtle he would come off the court grabbing his left the hamstring like something isn't right there and it was causing pain and discomfort and it wasn't getting any better and look he played 37 minutes in game one and I thought he played quite well.

“And that game you've talked about a lot like took took like there was punishment from that game like there was there were lasting effects that both teams had to deal with and overcome from that crazy maybe that was their tackle mistake was.”

And I mean I think I mean I think like we have short memories and you and I were arguing about this a little bit before the series where you said Chet's the second best player on the thunder I was like I all didn't respect like I think we're about to be reminded of what jail and Williams is and then he we were and then he was gone like that guy's fucking awesome that guy showed it out in the fight.

I was last year in a seven game of the finals he's a six eight monster wing you can do everything like.

He's he's like isn't this as a neutral fan what you want like get the gang back together and take a shot it like isn't that more fun than panic trade for Janis and all the things that could be back together though. Well the core gang like the main part of the gang like decide characters might change but like the main part of the gang. That's more fun to me is a neutral fan than panic trade for Janis we get way older so different we disrupt. Don't we want I want to do it in a trade for Janis don't we want continuity don't we want to watch great teams the core of great teams not the top eight or top nine but like the core of great teams do we want them to stay together and grow together is that what we want is fans don't we want them to come back and try to avenge this that's what I want.

“Guy by the name of magic Johnson you might have heard from them or might have heard of them 1984 finals sucked got the nickname tragic Johnson.”

Guess what he was fine that would be what I told chat I'd press these going to take them out the go get an ice cream cone and downtown Oklahoma city. I'll be like you've heard of the magic Johnson story 84 finals rock bottom. Came back and ended up winning three MVP's and three titles that could be us chat no he'll bust the press you will bust out and obscure 80s hip hop song raps on where he's like the bill you're going to like the lyrics to this this is going to speak to you just think about this later.

Can you be Joe do Mars for a second New Orleans general manager and I'll be I need another phone.

I'm same press they calling you. Hey, hey Joe. I've got I already threw the phone to Troy weaver. I already threw my phone. I'm scared. I threw my phone to Troy Troy. I have a I have Lou Dorts expiring. I'm going to pick that up the team option. I could pick up the heart and sign team option for 29 I've got Aaron Wiggins to offer you.

I have the 12th pick in the draft and the 17th pick what else do I need to just get you to trade trade my referred to me.

Sorry, the phone went the phone our landlines are out there was a power outage we didn't know like give me the package again. I'll give you 12 and 17. I will give you heart and sign and door on expiring and I'll take back Jordan pool in the Murphy trade. I'll take back Jordan pulls expiring. I'll take back Jordan pool now. I will get tension. I will. So you give me pull and Murphy. I'll give you 12 and 17. I'll give you the heart heart and sign expiring. The door to expiring. I'll take Jordan pool for years and expiring. So now I have eight centers on my team that I got to figure out what play together.

Yeah. I also instead of heart and sign out all you can keep Jordan pool throwing wiggins instead. I need another pick or a swap that's actually good. How about Topet should we see him? Do you see him in Garver's time? I have any interest? No. I mean for me New Orleans and I like he's fine. I need to see more of him. I need another pick or a swap. What if two Mars says back is AJ Mitchell on the table?

“That's what I would say back three million a year. I'm interested.”

How badly. So what if we talk to the lead you want to win the title? You got a very brief. You got a window with these three guys. So I badly want to win the title. AJ Mitchell, well, maybe 17th pick in a contract. Yeah, there's something there. That's to me that's the move because I'm tired. If I'm them, I'm tired of not quite having enough three points shooting. You know what I mean? I do. And that's a very intriguing trade. Also, I have to trade for him before somebody else does like the substance.

We've heard talks to him. He's always got a guy or two in the draft that he really, really wants that he just loves and he asked that. We saw it with Queen and maybe.

If there's somebody in that range. That 12 or 17 helps him get maybe in any year where they, you know, traded their pick obviously. Maybe he can. I thought I loved how he put in the playoffs. I'm on the record when Philly drafted McCain. I went nuts. That was my favorite. I watched him in LA. I've just always liked him.

“I think he proved that he's a guy that could be out there for them in a real way.”

And I wonder with SJA Mitchell and McCain. Could you turn one of those last two pieces into something with Murphy would be interesting? A couple of things before we go. Just a couple of mailback questions. Basically tied to tied to what we just watched. Okay. I had a whole thing on the pod the other day about if they had flopping penalties like they used to have fled in the house.

I saw this. Ben from DC said, you missed the best part about your flopping point system, the leaderboard. They published a leaderboard every week and it would be like shameful to be like the number one in flat points. There's just be good. So good one. I love that. I mean, look, look, teams do that with their like hustle boards, right? And they track in practice, charges take in hustle.

This hustle that and like if you're at the bottom of the hustle boards, like in theory of your names, it's the bottom. There we go. It's like being in the bottom and the in the barrel speed one and baseball. Like Caleb Durban for the Red Sox. He's like in the bottom 5% of barrel speed. I love all these steps when you know when you're not doing great.

Tyler important that I had a whole thing about all the losers from the next cab series. And he wanted to know why Tom Tibdo wasn't one of the biggest losers out of how this is played out the next.

And he said the second biggest loser were the seven remaining Tib stands. I just thought that was really mean.

But you just want to you want to throw a spotlight on his cruelty. Do you feel like Tibso's a loser for how this is turned out for the next or did circumstances make this a better, circumstances in health make this a better situation this year for the next. If Tibso's the coach are the next and the finals. I don't think so.

I don't think so. But I also don't think that he's a loser in the situation. I'm sure it eats it as crawl a little bit or whatever the right terminology is to see this happen. But I also I'm sure he's happy for a lot of the people that are there that were with him. I'm sure it's an interesting emotional time for him, but I don't consider him a loser.

I would flip it around and say how about Mike Brown is a winner. He did a great job with the nicks. He played the long. He pushed all the right buttons. He was a good higher even though he was like there's 17 choice apparently for the job. I like that. So Clark from Rockford, Illinois wants to know, did all the negative national discourse on OKC's flopping.

Twee cow SGA played a little bit over the course of this series in a negative way. I actually thought a little bit about that because they're so buttoned up of like well the noise doesn't affect us. We don't care about the noise. We don't care about the officials. We don't care about the media.

We don't care what's being said. They must be aware on some level.

“Like the I think the tipping point for me was what was it underdog sports made the fake operation game.”

And then they got a cease and despair from shades of attorneys or something like that. I was like, okay, I wonder if this just is this shrieking noise is in his head at all. But then he goes out and shows out like that in game seven. And I think the really thing the thing that really bothered him was Victor Wembanyama. I actually don't I probably don't think the flopping thing bothered him.

Sam from Austin said on the Zack low show. Good podcast after game six. Zack talked about how the spurs play one man's own with Wemby roaming the paint while everyone else is locked up man to man. Gold spary asked if Zack had coined that term and encouraged him to take credit for it. Sam thinks it should be called the unbox and one.

I do feel like it should have a name, but I was thinking maybe it's like the alien box or the box and alien. Something like that. Well, I'll workshop some stuff in my head. Yeah, the ground swell of interest.

There's a ground swell people like the box and what I by the way have always loved the box and one.

I've always loved variations of it. It's the two things I've never understood with basketball or why don't more teams play box and one and why don't more teams press. Like if I was okay see every time Fox was out I would have pressed.

“Because I think he castle I like I don't think he's a point guard.”

I think he was dying to give up the ball and I don't know why they didn't just go 94 feet with him in case I'm Wallace. I'm just so charmed by this that you I mean we're we're almost 30 years into this and you're just not given up the full core press.

You're enamored with like someone's got to do it someone's got to really make it part of there.

I mean the Pacers kind of came closest for you last year of doing it. The Celtics were doing a little this year, but I thought okay see Wallace was playing 22 23 minutes a game. And I don't know if if he's out there I'm like hey when you're out there you're you're just going 94 feet with everybody. Look at him with Karissa.

“I'm just going to say this I mean yeah there if you want to implement these kind of tactics that may or may not work but that are certainly.”

Unconventional I think you're going to have to suck it up and try to get the GM job for the Sacramento Kings because you're all. Your owner is a guy who suggested that his coach play four on five defense and cherry pick and if like if that's available you can go to the owner and say here in the job interview. Here are some crazy things I want to try you're going to think I'm crazy, but these are going to work he's the right audience maybe this is your destiny. But then you are part of the king through 12 we're going to press for five minutes a half.

Max is going to win all is going to be a full core press center for us we're doing it. The Vek is a gullible guy because bloody debatch looked him in the eye and said we already have Darren Fox. Luca is a big market superstar he's not going to want to stay here and Vek's like you're probably right let's take Marvin Bagley I sign off.

“So if he signed off on Marvin Bagley over Luca I think he would sign off on my press idea.”

This is and then you but then that you have car blanche you're what's working against you is you did not play for the Sacramento Kings in the early 2000s that would have been a big leg up for you in this in this race. But I would have started smoking into I got a bunch of emails that are you soccer guy or now. I'm ready for the woke up I don't know I watched the final do you follow what happened today I saw the penalty kicks.

So PSG won for the second year in a row and I got a million emails about this about how but my mopi mopi mopi I always screwed up my speech dyslexia.

He doesn't play for the many more. No but he left and they've won two titles in a row and people are wondering if they it's gone further than that it's like a is this the best viewing theory ever. And be should we just change the name we're never changing the name but I can't think of a better viewing theory than this of. Going all in on a guy the guy leaves and then they immediately went to titles without him when he's considered to be one of the best parts in the world is first name is. Is first name. I feel like that gives us gives you a lot of pun and potential for like you don't even have to kill in theory you have kill sitting there in the first in the first part of his name.

But he plays for real Madrid I assume they're good and he's still very good like you know. Not as good as you think. I had a male back thing about a single shot swinging a series. How few times that's actually happened most famously ray Alan. And Joshua M wanted to know why didn't I mention John Stark's his missing game six of 1994. And a couple of people have wanted about this why doesn't that get better PR as a doer die we could have won the title of that one in listen. I watched a lot of basketball back then.

There was no way that John Stark shot was going in. I never thought it was going in. And by the way, it was a hotly contested by hokey malajama one of the best 15 pairs of all time.

“I think there's a finger. I think there's a fingernail on that shot.”

And then right up in a fingernail on it, but I just don't think that shot was going in. I know it's like you could say, oh, if he had made that. I just thought the interesting thing about that shot is they're down to I believe the next. So that's a shot they they're playing for the win, but you and has always contended. I was rolling to the rim wide open at the nail and John had a passing lane to me. And yeah, make it and Stark says always said. There was just so little time on the clock that I wasn't sure I had time to pass it. You would have time to gather it and shoot it. But you and it was always said if he had passed it to me, we're going over time.

We're going over time. Well, he did miss that little A footer the next year. Jack from Chicago wants to know if we could see with these new tanking rolls a spike tank of somebody who somebody else has their pick. Like the nets and like the nets could be an example right the rockets control the nets 2027 pick. And the nets could be like fuck it. We don't care for one of the worst three teams. We didn't even have our pick. You're like in a fight tank it. Yeah. Well, really get you watch this rockets and they just run play five point cards for the last 10 games of the season. And it's like so versus worst time. I didn't think of that.

Do you think of that variable? Yeah, it's come up. I've seen people talk about it. Is one of the potential ripple effects of this sweeping change that is everyone is still trying trying to grapple with including what they've done to the second round, which I did not even realize was in the proposal until

Because there's some drafts where if you have 16 and 31 it's almost better than having like six right those deeper drafts were after the top five you don't even read you just want to like throw darts against the dartboard. Rob H had another one on this with this this weird new rule.

Lead to somebody trying to accumulate a bunch of picks and one draft to have the most possibilities basically stack a draft.

Like when when Houston and Brooklyn made that weird trade when Brooklyn wanted their picks back and they did and could we see something like that where I don't know the spurs have a 29 pick but they have 328 picks and they're like you know what let's trade our 29 pick for another 28 pick and try to have four of these. Sure why not I don't know I mean nobody knows yet but yeah that's not a bad idea like that. It could be weird. Yeah the biggest question I've gotten over and over again is why would I want to be.

The plan tent the 10 seed trying to win two playing games so I can get destroyed by San Antonio next year. Why wouldn't I want to actually could this lead to higher level tanking basically we're like yeah I don't I don't want to be the 10 seed. I don't I think.

I mean there's two directions that flows in right there's the team that's 12th and is four games out of the 10 seed and do they go all out to try to get it.

I could see that team currently already I could see that team under any rule system you have having some thoughts have you some thoughts about it.

“But the other the other one where I'm eighth and I'm like I really like to be 11th I just can't see a team doing that to its fans especially since a lot of the teams in that spot are younger teams who really I think could use and value.”

The experience and like look we saw Orlando getting we've seen play in teams have real success get to the finals and in Miami and Orlando took the choice to seven like you know counter. Golden State did they give a shit about March and April after Jimmy Butler's injury if they have this new letter system in place I don't think they do. They're saying curry's fine. You're sitting out don't try to come back we're going for our next year we just lost our second best player and then you're just trying to get in that four to 10 wrench.

I guess but like they have stuff curry and they've always been honorable but having stuff curry on their team even this year and it gave you.

I think you're maybe your favorite moment of maybe top five moment for you of this NBA season was that warrior's clippers. Oh yeah tap three tap three easily. You were so delighted. Leo from Indianapolis wants to know of how the burden doesn't tear as a kill is in game seven and then they win the best finals of all time. What are the rest of the decade look like for the Pacers we would have been a fluke or whatever just kept going. I don't know how Bert and Jerry and they win the title they released Turner is it just like a one year fluke like Leicester City basically in the Premier League.

I don't think you lose Turner if you win a title.

“You think they wanted to keep Turner at that. I think if Haliburton's healthy and you wouldn't go back.”

Yeah, I mean I think that one of the reasons they punted on Turner was next year's a loss for us anyway and might as well just save some money. Baliburton's hurties out for the year. It's an underrated what if. I just think as a fan I still and will forever feel just so robbed. Yeah, what that could have even had what we had. Yeah, leaving what we had tonight could have been at that level. John and did you see shape by the way said before this game today was the biggest game of his career. I did it said you played the finals game seven how was that you're not ever playing in a bigger game.

But I wonder if he just in his memory now that game even like that game is so weird to look back on like I wonder if he can even conjure what it felt like before Tyre's haliburton towards Achilles if he can even bring himself back to what that what the stakes were. Because then that injury happens and it's like I just felt like I was in a haze for three hours and not even paying attention to the game because you knew what was going to happen. I mean that's almost a good one to end on. But I am going to end on this. Okay.

Mason from Seattle. I feel the exact same way about AI as I do about Wimbie he's a foreign unknown technology that's arrived to dominate our world for the future. There's nothing anybody can do about it.

“I felt genuine dread after watching game one the same dread I feel when I think about how AI is eventually going to take my job in a year.”

That's pretty dark.

I've seen many normal people sending mail bag emails can comparing Wimbie to the most generation changing technology we've created since the internet.

“I think it was Harrison Fagan who's a Lakers blogger but I might be miscrediting somebody after game one somebody tweeted.”

Wimbie is the first player I've ever watched in my life where I thought maybe they might actually have to change the rules for this guy.

I think that's like that's we got some traction because I do think you watch it and you're like is this a will thing where like fundamental things about. In his best games where it just feels so hopeless to ever do anything near the basket I think those thoughts could reasonably like creep into your mind. I love how much he cares. I love how he reacted after the game. We'll see how he reacts if they actually win the finals but the mountain that they climb and you know the more we're talking and think about it you're okay see you have that.

Some of my magical year last year but the game seven was pretty weird with the Halberd injury like it was just a weird way to win the title but you're taking any time you get but now you think they start out the way they did this year.

And it's like holy shit oh my god what are we going to do and now the oh my god what are we going to do has just shifted to Wimbie.

And away from okay see which to me is the most it's even more stunning than seen a ton of being in the finals that the what are we going to do has just shipped the teams in real time. And I think the other twenty eight teams are still like what are we going to do but okay see when they get healthy and they make whatever we're going to make and I think that's the ultimate complimenters these two teams are going to be staring at each other one way or another and they're the ultimate measuring stick and I think that's why one of the reasons why if you want to cycle analyze it.

“That's what I say would call that the biggest game of his career why Wimbie would weep after it because they both have so much respect for the other team that they know what the challenges.”

Yeah. Well there's four guys in this draft that. Levitate above everybody else the order has been in great debate. There's a chance Peterson could get to four. As crazy as that sounds I know you've been doing some stealth you talk about the draft where are you going with this because I wonder like which Chicago have four would okay see would that be the power move that we talked about over there like what the what would they do move maybe they just go all in and try to get one of those four guys.

If I'm a team try to keep keep their nuclear someplace. I've done my I've done my just enough to be dangerous you tubing of those four guys. Yeah if I'm Chicago I'm just not even picking up the calls. I mean you got to really do some crazy as stuff to make me just not be psyched to take whichever one of the four falls into my lap. But that could be that's the opportunity for okay see that would be like we're overwhelming you with a stupid offer but I don't even know. I don't think you hear those stories about when people don't want to leave their house and somebody knocks in their door and's like I want to buy your house it's not for sale.

Here's the offer and like whoa I guess I'm moving.

That would be the overwhelming thing is like I got like they have some Denver swaps of clippers pick a clippers swap their own picks like they could throw ten first round picks at me.

If I add them all up are they as valuable as one of these four guys. What if I shut that table. I want to start over man just let me start over I think I've been to the book Benny the bull just wants to start over and you've talked me to it for Chicago but also for okay see okay I think the move is. Deep breath that San Antonio team is awesome that's going to be the team we battle for the rest of decade and. I guess if you if you offer me ten first round picks in chess on green I guess I just have to do it I mean I don't know.

But then if you're on the city you're out that's it you gave everything for you know what the you know what the example is it's when a co I want to pull George. Spray ironically and what did press to do. You said well I don't want to trade Paul George and they're like what about.

“How what would it take to trade him is like for first three swaps and then you have to get me SGA and then I what we can't give you a shade and it's like well that's what it would take.”

And he just kind of ground them down maybe that's what one of these teams in the top four would have to do they also got to figure out what Wallace's worth is the other thing which we didn't talk about.

And the 25 million range probably right yeah I think you're 25 to 25 years agent you're at the very least throwing around like you know.

“Christian Brown jailing so I was telling you your your mail in the Christian Brown contract to them well no I'm like this guy this question Brown guy our guys better in this guy exactly.”

Oh I'll leave you with this why does Denver have to trade anybody to sign paid and watch fuck off you have your kitchen your team the kids. Hey everybody cook this out Denver fans cook this out crock is got a could Jillian dollars. Just pay paid Watson and keep everyone else in your team because you're on a super rich.

How much did arsenal what do we do it just just for making the champions leave final isn't there they must that must make.

Gargantuan amounts. Yeah definitely. I think we are going to record Monday night so I'm going to San Antonio for game one of the finals at least and flying Monday Tuesday there's going to be some interesting podcasts of happening at the NBA's organizing that I don't know if I should really say anything but now I've said something. But so I don't know how that's going to work exactly but so I'm going to do a traditional episode where I just do a deep dive final preview I've watched my film I've got my notes and ready to go I'm going to make my pick so I don't come out either Monday night or overnight and Tuesday morning like usual.

“And then I'll have some fun in San Antonio hopefully see a great game and hopefully we got a great finals and.”

Boy the nicks and the spurs all right so I'm going to be I'm coming back with my pot on Tuesday we have tomorrow rewatchable is usually runs Monday night we are running it tomorrow night is I'm not going to my podcast because we did this and we did 2001 space Odyssey and it's one of the best episodes we've ever done without spoiling what happens I would highly encourage people to check this one out.

Zach low I don't know what I'm going to see you again because this final schedule is where but I'll see you after one of these games.

Yeah, this is like figure out. I'll see you after probably game three but we'll talk about it this week. Your travels in San Antonio.

“You won't see me after game six in New York City.”

That's the one thing I can guarantee. I don't want to say goodbye to you before game six in New York City in case that's the last time. Thanks to how and Eduardo and Chris everybody else at the ringer and I will see you on this beat on Tuesday. Thanks. Must be 21 plus in present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in present in DC.

Kentucky or well. And game problem called 100 gambler or 1 800 my reset call 888 797777 or visit ccpg.org/chat and Connecticut or mdgambling help.org and Maryland. Hope is here visit gambling help line m a dot org or call 800 3 2 7 50 50 for 24 7 support mess. She sits or call 877 8 ho and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 877 770 787 867.