Make-or-Break NFL QBs, a CFB Preview, and the WNBA Renaissance With Todd McShay and Diana Taurasi

an episode of the Rewatchables yesterday. We did aliens.

It finally happened after nine years.

“One of the most requested movies that we've ever had for the Rewatchables podcast.”

Finally happened. aliens. One of the ten greatest sequels of all time. So go check that one out. I did a bunch of podcasts last week, including two over under podcasts with cousins out.

We did AFC. Did NFC. If you missed any of that, please go check it out. Got to mention the AFC podcast. I talked about how I got my daughter's boyfriend to play some bets for me in Massachusetts

because I was in LA. Did not know about the proxy rules. Yeah. There's some real rules with this stuff. And they've ruled that they're not only are the bets going to be avoided.

And I learned my lesson. Apparently proxy betting not allowed. I actually thought it was, but that's fine. And now my daughter has to break up with her boyfriend. That was the other thing.

Well, no, I'm kidding. They're going to stay together. But yeah, I did learn not a lot to do that. So all those bets went out the window. All that special time I had with Hank out the window as well.

The good news is I'm going to be in Boston and maybe at some point all. I'll make some more wagers down the road. So there you go. Lesson learned coming up on this podcast. We're going to talk football and college football with Todd McShack.

Because we need to have him on before the NFL season. And then Diana Terrasi, who was on the last grant land basketball,

“or whoever who was on my podcast the first year, I think,”

when she was playing in Russia. Yeah. First or second, you can't remember. She's back. WMB, we're going to try to have a really fun woman's basketball conversation,

where we don't hit all the stupid content guard bills that everybody hits. And just talk about basketball. It's going to be fun. We're going to have a break, Pearl Jam, and then Todd McShack. The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Fandle.

The NFL is here and it's the most rewarding season ever on Fandle with the all time Fandle rewards club. Every eligible bet can earn you points. Win or lose. You still get points. The more points, the bigger the words you can unlock,

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[Music] Alright, recording this early Tuesday afternoon. The Eastern Time, Todd McShack is here. College football season really kicking off this weekend. NFL started the next week.

You want to start. NFL first of college first. You're big. What's going to fall first? Okay.

I've made.

I always feel like there's eight teams that can basically be realistic, superable contenders.

And even though Salon, I did the AFC and NFC over under his last week. I still didn't have my eight. And I think I have six. And I wanted to bounce off. I always have a pen in a piece of paper.

I always keep in your toes. Yeah. Alright, so here's what I have. Rams and Seahawks have to be in there. So that's easy.

We got two. Yep.

“I think from AFC, the two teams I feel the best about are the Texans and the Ravens.”

Texans because they have the best defense in the league. Ravens because of the schedule. I like Jesse mentor. Made all these cases last week. So I have those four.

Okay. I have the Broncos. Who I think people are sleeping on a little bit from a town on the roster standpoint. I think people are looking at them as making too big of a step back. I just like the more than the chiefs.

That's five. Eagles because of the amount of talent they have. That's six. So I have two spots left. One is for the bills or the Patriots.

And I'm biased. You might be less biased than me. But give me your bills or Patriots. You can't have both. No.

Now I've decided I can't have both. I think this is zero. That's right. I think we must. I think we must.

We must. Gun to head this year. I would go Buffalo. I make the case.

I always worry with the quarterback and a young quarterback coming off of the first successful season.

Obviously you look at that wide receiver room compared to a year ago for for Drake May.

It's like it's not even close, right? And so that that gives you a lot of hope and promise of your Patriots fan. I just think Josh Allen has the right coach, the right relationship. He feels ownership of this. I get the the roster's not as good.

Patriots roster top to bottom is better. I just I can't bet against Josh Allen this year. Well, history says that's a good guy to bet on because he just wins 11 games every year. I don't see the town and the defense at all. So this to be it have to be a one man show kind of season for him.

“And I think he's enough of a one man, but but.”

Like I won't shock me. There's one team that you're leaving off that you and I've texted about a little bit that I think is going to surprise some teams and I don't care how a little rest there. I mean my eight spot. Okay, go ahead. One last thing on the patso. Yeah, because obviously people are you're running into people all summer and you live in New England and people are going to ask it this stuff.

What's your answer when people say what happened to Drake in the playoffs last year? He wasn't healthy and his left tackle wasn't healthy. That's my answer, too. It's almost like we colluded on answers. Yeah, I haven't talked to you about that.

And there's no question in my mind that both guys were injured and when and you could see the difference.

And yeah, like the competition elevates it's the first time the playoffs I get all those things and I'm sure that they played a factor, but.

You're telling me that that was the Drake may that we saw all season and then he just kind of he was limited in what he was able to do and the offense very clearly. They kind of they strangled it, you know, like they clearly were were were functioning with a quarterback that they knew had some more limitations than they were doing with all season long and then I mean. Listen, it was a disaster and super bowl, but when you're rookie left tackles not healthy, it's not going to end well and will Campbell was not healthy.

I don't care what injury reports said. Well, mentioned I had and we we talked to the general manager and and wolf was like. Like there's no, but he basically was like he'll be healthy, actually. It was more than a wink, you know what I mean, like he's our starting left tackle and and we have no doubt about that and and we have all the confidence in the world that was not the guy that played left tackle all season and he didn't just forget how to play football or in Seattle's defense is awesome. But that wasn't the product that that we know he's going to be moving forward.

Well, he had a torn MCL. He said that after the season, torn MCL is an injury that is sideline a bunch of people. So he definitely wasn't out. They would drink. I don't know if there was an injury was hiding or if he was like really really banged up and then there was an accumulation of hits, but he was not the same guy in those last couple games and. You know, if this was a quarterback that wasn't on the Patriots out of it and like, oh, regular season Drake, but we'll see. At my last spot, bucks, Cowboys, Lions are bears.

Were those one of the four that was that one of the teams you thought I was going to say to you, what was the team where it takes about chargers. Yep, chargers. Okay, so the chargers in there.

“Dallas and the chargers are the two teams that I think are going to have big years.”

The best team that DAC has had. I think he's.

I've never thought he's one of the elite quarterbacks in the league.

Yeah. Maybe even I had this conversation for the longest time. I was I was pushed back against DAC guy. And in the last. Was there a club?

Did you have T-shirts or was that just? No, but I felt like I was I was. I was on the minority. Yeah, but I was on the board of that club, you know.

“But, but I think he's figured out who he is.”

I know like he knows how to distribute his leadership, the physicality. I just I think he's I think he's prime to have maybe the best year of his entire career. They've got the weapons at wide receiver. Their defense that looks not in the last. Well, it's called nine months now approximately nine, ten months now.

The turnover from that defense systematically. And you would think losing like a Parsons, but they've parlaid that into what I think is it. And I love the former spider new new defensive coordinator. I just I think that defense is going to be. Let's say it's middle of the pack.

15. Like 15. It's a totally different situation for Dallas.

Like nothing makes my stomach turn more than a Tuesday when the Cowboys have no business being in the new cycle. And it's the A block of a show. Yeah.

“But this year, I think they actually deserve some of this attention that they're inevitably going to get.”

So I think the chargers in the Cowboys are the two teams that are being. You can't say Cowboys are being overlooked, but I don't know they're being taken seriously as they should be. From a national perspective. I think that's fair. The last week we talked about that division, especially when you look at the other two teams in the division.

Like both of those teams might be 11 win teams. The Eagles and the Cowboys. I think they have a real chance to make the Super Bowl. So that that was the time I think for that. I think Herbert is going to shred this league.

And I was I also I was I was low man. I had I had a love ahead of Herbert might coming out of the NFL draft. I was, you know, whether it was Rex Ryan or Kaipur like. And I and I really liked Herbert and I recognized the talent. Like it doesn't take super scout to figure out this guy's supremely gifted.

But what but he's never won.

In my argument was like winners win and there's something about them. There's an it factor. There's like I remember going into a meeting in Oregon, Eugene, we're up there for like one of those coaches meetings and meet with it. It was crystal ball and then and then the quarterback normally comes in. They command the room, right.

He walks in in the offensive line. And he brings in with them and he kind of sits behind the offensive line. And I'm like, I don't this isn't a vibe. I love it. And it kind of explained some of the, you know, some of the questions I had about him.

But I've seen him grow in mature.

“I think harbors done wonders for him in terms of his like confidence.”

And above all, I just like the weapons they have now like with this offensive system just watching a couple plays during this preseason. Oh, of Mike McDaniel, and what what that system is going to do opening receivers up. I think it's going, I think they're going to put up massive numbers. You know offense. Right now he's third MVP odds.

I'm Fandel 101. Better than the mayor. Better than Drake. Better than Matthew Stafford. Only behind Alan and Burrow.

The one thing that worries me. You know, they got the tackles back this year. Right.

They never left tack or a right tackle last year.

They're in backup. Some both spots. They got both guys back. Yep. They sign a center.

They lose them. Their guards are probably in the running for worse guards in the league. So the middle of the line. I would say is a D minus. And I wonder, you know, we've said all the line would be much better this year.

Yeah, it'd be better to protect in the outside. But I wonder how teams are just going to show up. The good side for them is McDaniel has had a lot of experience. Have coming up with plays trying to get the ball out fast. Yes.

I've been trying to give two seconds or less, basically. So, but I do worry about that. I don't mind losing having two guys I'm worried about. Like the bears have, you know, two holes in their offensive line. It's like, okay.

“I think we can work around that because we have three really good linemen on the in the other three spots.”

But having your whole middle of the line's stink. It's a little nervous. Yeah. I go back to the Texans too. Well, we're out of.

Yep. I can't figure out. I'm telling you, I think you could put this up. I mean, the Rams would be number one. But let's say top three.

It would be hard for you to convince me that there are three other roasters. Top to bottom better. If you exclude the quarterback position. Then the Texans. Like what Nick Casario has built there is is pretty remarkable.

But now you go into your fourth season. They wisely, you know, they bring it back. The one year. Rookie years phenomenal. Last two years has been a massive regression.

You hear kind of whispers and is there something else going on? What is led to this? But nothing, nothing specific. And I'm talking to people on the league and note people on the league are like, I don't know, man. I don't know.

And so in this off season, has there been any change? Is there enough to believe that he's going to be a different dude? And why receivers have been injured? And he's, oh, you go back to college with strout.

His slot receiver is the most important position for him.

I mean, some quarterbacks have to have a great tight end. Some quarterbacks need a big X hit. You go with whether I think it was a JSN. I think it was JSN, Jackson Smith and Jacob. He thrives when he has a slot receiver and then tank Delgado injured.

And he has him in the same sense, really. And so making sure that spot is taking care of. And what are they going to get from the receivers this year? And now all of a sudden you get the Higgins with the injury. But I don't know.

I see J strout. If you said there's one player in this league in 2026,

Now all of a sudden we need a new quarterback.

“We're moving on from strout and this thing.”

We got to regroup because now the clock's ticking with all these other players that we have here. And we can't find a veteran who can come in and replace him. And the thing kind of becomes a mess over the next year or two. Or they could be playing in the Super Bowl. Well, like one player, you know.

That's just going to throw two quarterback groups at you. After I did my circle.

And the first quarterback group was Maker Break.

Guys that I just felt like this is it. Where do they go in this way or this way? And strout was the first guy in the list. 28 natives of starter. Brookie year 41, 08 yards, 23 TDs, 5 picks, 8.2 yards per attempt.

And looked like he was a guy. And it is now looking like the guy who's either going to hold them back. Or if they can figure out, oh, we have a better running game there. We improve the offensive line a little bit. Still not great, but it's a little bit better.

Whatever seevers, we drafted two rookies last year. One got hurt, the other one's still there. We traded for booty. Collins, Dell is going to show up at some point. We're probably better.

And our defense is going to be so fucking good. We just need to drive the car. Yep. Just just drive us from Boston to New York City. And just don't get a speeding ticket.

Don't hit any other cars. And we might make a mistake. And we might make the Super Bowl. That's the same question that you can do with five route. Like you don't have to go Merritt Parkway with all the weaving.

You know what I mean? Like Brett. It's like this route's going to be four hours and ten minutes. But just get us their safe. Middle lane cruise control is 67.

You have 72 miles an hour. Whatever it is. And let's go. We put gas in the car. You're not going to have to stop.

Yeah. We're leaving at 130 between lunch and dinner. You don't need to stop for food. Yeah. Middle lane.

Just go straight. Right. We're no rush to get there. Don't even use your phone. We don't.

You don't need ways. You're just not going to put it. Put an audio book on like a true crime. You know, like just relax. Right.

“Because I think the running game Montgomery's.”

He's like a like a be. You know, they last year they had F's. And this year down Montgomery, at least he could move the chains for three and a half four or four and a half yards when they give him ball. And he's going to have to lead a ton because the defense is so good.

I'm with you because then you also have the contract piece with him too. Right. Because what happens if he's really good. Then you're like, well, is he really good? Because our teams awesome or is he really good?

Because he's actually good. So that's one. Yeah. He embraced younger and almost identical situations from that draft. Right.

That was the next guy. Organizations want desperately for stroud and young to make that next step this year. Or for stroud to get back to where he was as a rookie. Young's tricky. I think they've handled it perfectly like Dan Morgan.

I have a great appreciation for him as a general manager. They know they can't pay the guy. But I did like like I thought he played pretty well in that playoff loss.

“I mean, I think he's incrementally gotten better after a disastrous start to his career.”

They've gotten better as an organization. They keep drafting well. And they've kind of, I don't know.

For the first time in a long time, I feel like they're stabilized as an organization.

I really do. And so now, neither franchise with the Texans and shroud and Panthers with Bryce Young. We're willing to, you know, go all in and who could. But they also have handled it well. You get the sense from them whether it's believed whether it's true or not.

It feels believable like we're fully behind them. We want desperately and they do. They want desperately for both of these guys to take that next step this year. And for them to have to go right a massive check to them. Right.

But we can't do it yet, you know. There's a lot of a technique bill in buzz too. Who I guess that everyone calls T-Mac. But yes, but has a chance. He has to meet her in the draft for calling them.

I got I got I got word back from from his people. He does not like that. First of all, you're lower on them than everybody else. So at least say his name right, you know. Yeah.

Well, he came on like a freight chain near the end of last year. And now looks like year two might might really if you're going to pick a wide receiver. What wide receiver could really make a leap. I think he's probably the best pick. So Bryce has that.

I didn't like some of the injuries and bad juju stuff from the preseason with them.

That always makes me nervous.

But so yeah, I don't this will. Bryce this will be like where two was a year ago. Even though he already had the contract, but it's like, okay, we're going to know for sure one way or the other with two. I feel the same way with Bryce, like this is it. If it's not happening this year.

Maybe he starts bouncing around.

Yeah.

No matter where you're picking the first route to get a guy to kind of plug into what they're doing and not skip a huge beat.

My last guy for maker break and you might have one too.

“But and I think Atlanta's going to be terrible.”

We talked about it on my podcast week. I think they have a chance to be the worst team in the NFC. Oh, good. Right. Yeah.

There's just a lot of red flags and, you know, they have two who that I think they were hoping could hold the fort until Panics was healthy. And obviously can't because he's not a, not a starting football quarterback anymore. So they're, they're backing on Panics who they spent the eighth pick on the draft on, you know, it was two weeks ago. They feel like they drafted them. And this feels like maker break for this, too.

Like if this doesn't work this year, maybe you'd zag the other way. There's so many good quarterbacks. Maybe you try to be one of the five or six worst teams of the league. Take your chances again.

“But do you see any chance that they can salvage them?”

I mean, with that roster, I'm not sure it could be honest.

And, and it was always about injuries.

He had 45 starts in college. And, and had some ups and downs began at Indiana. I think it was obviously finished at Washington. There were sometimes where you worried about his durability throughout his career in in college. Has the, the ACL in November, right?

And after nine starts. The promising stuff, like I didn't, I didn't have him as the eighth best player in the draft. But I saw maybe late first round, you know, a player that could be a starter. But I'm not going to, I'm not giving away a top ten pick for this guy. It's also important to remember, too.

They didn't draft them. The guys who were making the decisions now, starting with Matt Ryan, Ian Cunningham, who I've known for since we were both pups in this business. Great deal of respect for Ian. There's something to you want your guy.

And then you're staring at this draft that we can, I don't know if we'll get how much we'll get to it in a little. There's a little, let's go down to like, maybe down to 10 or 12, where, where they look like first rounders. And, and you're also looking at a season where you think are probably going to be picking pretty high. And so maybe we get our guy and put our stamp on this organization and buy to buy Michael.

“And then just let's, let's build this thing from the spot that you have to build it.”

So I don't have high hopes for for Atlanta this year. I don't have high hopes for pennants with Atlanta for him personally. He's a great young man. I hope that he has a good enough season where where there's opportunity for him. But my guess is at the end of the year that Atlanta's going to be one of these teams that we're just banging on and marching April as we lead up to the 2027 NFL draft is they're very much in the mix.

And they're worried like, all right, the jets have three picks. Cleveland's got two are they had to get leap frog eggs. Yeah. Yeah, they're, they're under in the overunders. There's been a lot of action on the end.

I think it's it was seven and a half and now it's like kind of between there's heavy juice on the under for seven and a half and I think it's going to six and a half. Yeah, six and a half, right. What you said about we want our guys when people take over like a movie studio or the TV side and it's like, yeah, we have. And it's like, well, I don't get credit for that. If it works out, I'm just going to get rid of those.

I want to come up with stuff that we did because then we get the credit in football, especially at panics three ACLs already. Haven't really seen enough flashes to me to be like, all right, let's try one more year. I'm trying to get another quarterback. I have four cubies at a very interesting inflection point of their careers and you mentioned Herbert. Actually five, I'm sorry. You mentioned Herbert already.

Yeah, Josh Allen. We don't need to do the whole. Josh Allen Super Bowl legacy. We don't need to that trade. We talked about already. The last two burrow and Stafford for different reasons. Because burrow six years. He's only made it to the finish line in three hasn't made the playoffs since 22. It's still being perceived as one of the five best guys, right?

Bengals are being considered a playoff team. They're favored to win ten plus games.

And people are always making excuses about the offensive line. They don't spend enough.

I mean, while they they went, they kept those two big receivers, but Walk me through what happens if the Bengals go eight nine this year and burrows not that good. And he plays the whole season. He plays the whole season and it's just like, yeah, they're eight nine.

I think so highly of a healthy burrow that that doesn't even compute for me.

So he's a guaranteed ten win guy for you if he's healthy and can play the whole season. Yeah, if you if you give me best or close to best of 100% healthy.

“Good season from Joe Burrow. I think they're a ten win team.”

Just because of Joe, I mean, the defense is obviously improved. They like, they've actually done some positive things. But they still can't black. They still can't block. And I don't know how it's going to be. Honestly, I'm such a, like, I just, he's a different cat. I remember sitting in meetings with Brian Greasy and I sat in meetings with him at LSU.

And walking out of there and both looking at each other because normally, like, we would have a sense of like, I don't know what this guy or like, how was that, you know, and both of us being like, what do you think? What do you think? I don't know. And I don't mean, I don't know as I don't know. I mean, like, legitimately don't know. And then just watching his progression.

I don't, there are very few guys that can maneuver the pocket. They could read things the way he does. That had the onions as I like to say to make some of the things that he makes. Like, he's just different. And he's just different. But this thing has eroded him. And physically, emotionally, I don't think confidence-wise.

But I do, I do wonder when that starts to set in. I kind of want to see him go somewhere else. If this year isn't, hey, we're back in the playoffs. Things are rolling. I want to see Joe Burrow get an opportunity somewhere else where it's like, here's Joe. Like, Stafford, who's next up that we're going to talk about.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Stafford like situation. It wasn't his dismal Cincinnati. They obviously made the Super Bowl. But like, I want to see elite special players wind up with opportunities where they can actually go and and beat themselves, you know.

Well, we see this in the NBA all the time. It feels like it happens 10 times as much in the NBA, but a guy will have a couple of down years.

Basically, Dev and Booker now in Phoenix, right?

Somebody like that who we know can be swimming in the pool of the final four of the title, potentially, if he's your best guy or a close to your best guy. And now is basically in 500 teams. It's like, well, I know there's more there. I wonder if they trade him.

But then we've had people like Anthony Davis get traded and the rant traded or signed with new teams a bunch of times. I do think if they're not a 10 or 11 when team, I do wonder if he's on that team next year. Maybe after seven years, maybe you're just like,

fuck it. Let's who's ready to make us a godfather offer. The Stafford thing is different. Obviously, this is a shock that we're talking about. Well, because because our laughs got me thinking,

because our laughs he had that thing on TV this week, where he said, they win another Super Bowl. He's one of the seven best ever. And I'm like, that doesn't. I don't say stuff on TV.

We make we say list stuff. But maybe we don't have the list. The question for me is can Stafford move into the top 10. And get the 10 spot.

“Which I think the competition would be Steven Breeze.”

Josh Allen, ironically, who probably after everything said it's done is going to take it anyway. Bradshaw and Otto Graham. And Stafford's thrown over 60,000 yards MVP Super Bowl win. It would be interesting if they won again.

Remember, L.A. won the two. He won the first one, but then they won the second one too. And it just completely changed. It tilted how you just saw him after that. And I think that's at stake for Stafford.

I, I person think he'd have to be the 10th guy in that list. If they won the Super Bowl again, I don't know. Where do you stay? What did you say after Breeze? What was the second name?

This would be the 10 spot right now. Steven Breeze. Josh Allen, Terry Bradshaw, Otto Graham.

“I think would be the next five in some order.”

Well, here's what I do know.

Or Lovsky's always been right about Matthew Stafford. But our Lovsky's also been just a little north of Breeze and a bull with it. You think we're teammates and all that. So I take, I take what he's saying sometimes. And like, yeah, you're right, especially as you're right about all that.

But like we're always going to go a little too far. But I, it is, it does change a career when you look back on it. That's second Super Bowl. And my gosh, as he lined up for this year. I'm fascinated to see how it plays out with the health of Aaron Donald.

Can they manage that throughout the year? I guess it's the skeptic in me. It's like every time we, every time we think that there's this super team in the NFL, that they're unbeatable coming into the year. It's just amazing.

And I'm not sitting here trying to get like send bad due to that way.

I love Sean. I love what they've done organization. I'm behind everything that they're doing. But, but I'm worried about that. But specifically today, answer your question. Like, I think he is different.

I really do. I think Stafford sees the game. And then he's one of the rare ones. Like Breeze saw the game the way Stafford does. Stafford does.

Yeah. Stafford just has better tools. Right. Stafford can make four or five throws in the game that the truth just couldn't. And that's the difference. And then the longevity of it and ascending.

Yes, yes, ascending because he had a different opportunity in the supporting cast. But ascending even like late years. Like the year he just put up last year, man. Like he kind of like defies logic, right? Right.

And the throws he's still making at that age. And sometimes you see like, you know, I remember like, was it. Reclemines late in his career, like Pedro, like they lost their stuff. But they could still. But it feels like he's still got all of his stuff.

It's a good one. That's a good analogy for this. Clemmons, right? Yeah. It's had this whole extra six years in the 2000s or five years.

Whatever was passed his double prime. When he was still lucky, he felt like he could go out and start a game three of the world series and throw seven in it. Yeah. And so I don't know.

“I think top 10 is absolutely in the in the cards.”

And I mean, fine seven is seven is not seven. No, no, no. And let's see what happens with Josh Allen's got a lot of career left. And Josh Allen's like Josh Allen could. If he, if Stafford ascends to 10,

Allen's got the next X amount of years to go steal that spot from them. Now we're looking at 11, but at the end of the day, you're one of the best. It's called 12 quarterbacks to ever play in this game. Right. Pretty good.

I'm with you on the Rams. I'm a little skeptical because of the super team thing in the history of it. We talked last week on the pot about no last 30 years. There's really only been one prohibitive favorite that's actually won the Super Bowl. The 2018 Patriots who easily could have lost in Kansas City during that run.

Right. Yeah. Like just a lot can go wrong, especially with the top heavy roster. And I don't, I don't feel it. I think Seattle has more talent.

I think the Rams higher level talent. They're top tier guys. If you're going to go seven, this top seven versus top seven, the Rams are better. But I think Seattle is more talent.

And we talked last week about. Can you be at nobody believes in us team after you won a Super Bowl? And I kind of feel like Seattle ball flies. Everyone's just discounting them and pushing them aside and trying to cope with other teams.

And meanwhile, they're basically bringing 90% of their core back.

You know, including just about everyone on the defense, which was the reason when the Super Bowl. Yeah. And then I'm going to contradict myself though. And then you, and then you envision an NFC championship rematch, right? But they're in doubt on now playing 50 plays in the NFC title game.

And Miles Garrett coming off the edge and two in one damn good corner and another capable corner.

“And that was about the only thing that got them.”

And now, how does that look for Bradford? You know, I don't know. Yeah. What's, um, what's take a break? Cause I, we have 25 minutes to rip through college football.

Let's go. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. Every winning team has that one player who can do it all. The new PayPal app is kind of like that. You can chat, pay earn rewards, manage your account, all in one place.

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I'm obviously invested with UCLA.

The draft is going to be incredible.

The storylines are all over the place. And just when I thought I couldn't be more excited as the most casual, college football fan possible. You come up this week with content saying that 17 guys could go with the first pick in the draft.

“And I think, I think you, you made it the case.”

And there's all these dudes. And I think the biggest case with this is the quarterbacks. What we've seen year to year the last few years. Whatever we think is going to happen in the summer. By the time we get to January, the things flip. So you have, like, you have more and sellers and car meaning,

levitt, Champions, Mesa, and Nico. So you think there's, is there a world where all eight of those guys could potentially go number one

I think there's a world in which all eight of them, if they all play to the level,

I think they're capable of could want to be in first round picks.

“I think also think you have to keep in consideration that, you know, last year,”

a lot of people were on Drew Alley wasn't for me club Nick. I thought club Nick was going to take another step. He didn't, um, I think that's the last mile got got injured all season long. He had great camp. Club Nick's had a great camp. They both show they still know how to play football.

But, but what's different this year is almost all those guys on the list. I have, have an opportunity to go back to school, too. So we could be, we could really rack this thing and be talking about 2018, but I don't, I think probably, I would set the over under at five for first round, or some of this group.

And when it comes to the first overall, what's interesting about this class, and hasn't been talked about a lot. Like Dante more, the Raiders were out sending their, their brass to games and really looking at this situation. And it was a tough decision.

They, like, there were people in the organization that, that favor Dante heavily. And there were people in the organization who really thought Mendoza was a guy. And then Dante more makes it, this makes it a non-decision when he, when he decides to go back to school for another year.

“So would you, would you like that and appreciate it that he did that?”

I thought it was smart. I thought it showed maturity. He, he, he, he was ready enough. But for the money you can go back and make, and to give yourself another year of opportunity to grow, and to come into this league where we're seeing guys like Bownex have success with 63 starts or whatever it is. Guys are coming in with 30, like almost minimum 30 starts.

And we're seeing a lot fewer, not in all cases, but we're seeing fewer and fewer, there was like just dead on bus, right? And I think a lot of it has to do with experience and maturity and you've been through some adversity. But this year's class, it can go both ways with all of them.

And even Dante, he's, he's the easiest one to say, yeah, he's, he's the most likely to be the number one overall pick. Would you say he was C.J. Stroud 2.0 or C.J. Stroud? I think there's so much of search. Sir, C.J. Stroud? Yeah.

“Yes, I think he's a little bit more willing to run, but definitely pocket pass for first.”

Just that I'm saying a lot of the same things about, about Dante as I was about stroud when he came out. It's best pure pastor, the touch throws a beautiful ball. I think it's like the receivers don't have to work to go get it. Understands the offense, distributes it, moves around the pocket. He's a little more willing to run.

But neither has this howitzer of an arm, good arm can make all the throws. But the big thing for me is, I need the big moments. Mendoza's tape last year, Bill. It was up and down. Dante Moore was the better quarterback.

If you go and you just every single play for both. Dante Moore was the better quarterback. But the moments, it was like 28 touchdowns, zero interceptions in the red zone.

Highest efficiency, third down, fourth down.

He threw himself into problems, late in games. Oregon, I mean, yeah, Oregon, Iowa, Penn State. Interceptions, one was a pick six against Oregon. And then he made the play or the drive or the five plays late in the game that won it. So he had those moments where you can see that he's just, he's wired differently, right?

I love those guys. I need to see that out of Dante. You know, like that we have that Indiana game. We're going to pick six and then he has one good drive and then it falls apart again. Can't see that out of him this year.

Because you know what, like, nipping at his heels. This Lenora Sellers guy from South Carolina gets a new offensive coordinator this year. I'm telling you, six, one and a half, whatever, two, 30 Bill. He is as fast as he is quick. He is going to rock it for an arm. He's a, he's not an elite passer, but he's better than

Jalen Hurts was. I think he's better than Lamar Jackson was coming out in terms of just pure passing. I think he's got a chance to be, to be, like, right there at the end this year. If South Carolina, with this, with the Briles there, Kendall Briles. And then Daryne Mences, another guy that nobody's talking about.

He's, I watch Mences tape and I'm like, how big of a gap is there between him and Dante more?

And now he goes, he goes from Duke to Miami as the second best or one A1B in terms of pocket passing.

But he's a better runner. And then he gets arts manning, who, like, if he, if his eyes are in the right place and his mechanics are better. And he's able to hit more spots than he was last year. He's, I, going back to summer and watching him. I forgot how fast he is.

Like, he's the, he's the antithesis of his uncles. Now he has the, he has the manning stigma.

Or you assume that he's really, like, he must have been in all the camps growing up.

And he, like, such an understanding of offensive and his feet must be great. No, he's not. He's just kind of a gunslinger who when he takes off running, he just runs, but with those long strides runs by a ton of guys. And then CJ Carr at, at Notre Dame, he's not the biggest.

He doesn't have the biggest arm, but I would argue he's got the best processing, smarter score to back up the entire class. And he is so damn accurate throwing the ball. And we said about JJ McCarthy. No, it's different man.

Okay. It's different. It's different. Check, pick by scarred by JJ. I could see that, and maybe, maybe that'll be the thing this year.

And you know what, they're not playing anyone comparatively speaking all, you know, for the vast majority of the year. Yeah.

“I think he, I think he could easily win the Heisman Notre Dame quarterback.”

11, 12, when regular season. But I think he's a different, he's just, he's wired differently.

Well, you had sellers and you had sellers second.

Yeah. At least in your preseason rankings, which he is not on the draft boards. That's not a consensus pick, but he, no. It seems like you're the highest on him of anybody I've seen. Well, we did a seven part series in the show.

Yeah. And doing all these quarterbacks. We kind of pitting them head to head. We couldn't do 14 shows one on each. So, and, and I just kind of assume going into the year, especially the way arch finished.

“That, like, the, all the talk was, whose number one is it, is it arch or is it Dante, right?”

Yeah. And then we got done with that. And it was a clearly Dante. Arch can absolutely make those next steps this year. People forget too.

The mannings like to stay, they like to overstate their welcoming college and be ready for the NFL. So don't rule out him being in the 28 draft. And then we got to car and sellers and a couple of the other guys. And it was like, yeah, I don't know. It's not only not one, you know, arch versus Dante should be the number one guy.

It's, is arch even in the top three. You know, and could arch be the fifth best coming into the year. You have him so earth, I've got him fourth.

“And I think Sam levied at LSU with, with Lane Kiffin, who's in the, you know, all the headlines for all the wrong reasons.”

Or all the, you know, the off the field reasons with with the now trying to bring pro players back. And I get it like, let's blow this whole college thing up and to get some, some leadership in place, but that's a different show. There's their very few, he's in the, he's in the one handful of guys in college, where you see a player is talented as levitt, who's more talented than Jackson dark. Yeah, more explosive runner, more dynamic, bigger arm. And, and you, and you watch dart in the way he progressed and then turn it at Chambers and one year come from Ferris State Division two to see the way he progressed.

And now you're giving him the most talented quarterback he's worked with since like his USC days. And a full year to do that, and I get the schedules difficult and all that. I think Sam Levitt, we could be in the conversation number one overall when it's all said and done. But yeah, I mean, this class is, and by the way, did Chesney give you like, what's the update from your boy on Nico? Just a lot of optimism right now in the UCLA said, Nico's like, if you're a new coach taking over a program and you get this guy who's super talented as your QB, who's actually had some success in the past, right?

So it's like, it's fixable, whatever it was going on, you can fix it, or you can accentuate all the good things about him and put him in the right environment. I mean, I do think he's a highestment possibility, you know, I think they'd have to go eight and three nine and two, but as a dark horse, I think I think getting these quarterbacks as a dark horse, but, you know, I think he has them, I think Fando as I'm seven plus wins is basically even odds. They're 22 to one to make the college playoffs, but they've been, they keep adding to it.

They just added the James Madison linebacker who's, you know, was the best linebacker in that part of the country last year, so I don't know what to think anymore. Can we take us that back and just look like, I've followed you, I've gotten to know you well in the last couple of years. When I'm in, I've followed you, I've followed your, the fact that you're talking to me about a JMU linebacker. Yeah, the portal is like, it's the central player of the year. Oh, I'm hoping that you say, hey, oh, I love it. But here's the other thing with, you know, and you see this with college football, we just saw it in the end of when you go from like.

You have a fan base that's basically been in the desert, which just can't teens and some free dose, and that's all they've had for 20 years.

And now you pull up with like your fucking cheeseburger cart and you're like, hey, who wants to eat? It was like, oh my god, it's just real, it's just happening.

I don't think people nationally have a clue how good Nico is.

“I, in fact, I kind of wanted, I didn't want to write them off this. I kind of was like, I'm like, let them let them maybe a couple years will revisit Nico like that whole thing was ugly at Tennessee.”

Yeah, is their parent involvement, the money growl, and then I, and then I had a scout call me in in October is like, you know, I know they're not like national picture, you're focusing on the top teams and all that and I know you're getting ready for the this year's draft. But when you get a minute, go watch what Nico's doing and he's doing it with not a whole lot and then I put in some of the tape then I was like, yeah, all right, keep in mind and then I watched the summer. He's got he's got a toughness about him that I didn't expect he's got a an ability to bounce back from mistakes that I kind of was worried about when you think when you kind of build a mental picture of, yeah, he's kind of going after the money is a mercenary what's going on, but this guy loves ball and you can't.

“And you can't hide that on tape and then you watch this like six foot five gazelle when he takes off to run.”

And then you watch the ability at six foot five to make guys miss in small small spaces. And then I start to watch some of those NFL throws like leading anticipation drilling it from one hash to the to the sideline like, there's nothing he can't do. Now his deep ball accuracy was atrocious of Tennessee. They didn't drive it vertically as much last year. I'm interested to see this year if he can improve in that area, but otherwise, like, he's another guy. I just like don't rule him out when we start talking about like.

I find if it's not number one overall pick, it was a fun exercise and it brought a lot of awareness like Mendoza was a second round pick for most and he's a normal all pick and and you go back.

Cam Ward, I talked to a scout in September of his final year, two years ago and he's like, man, you're like, get off of Cam Ward. I've got a fifth on him and he's a number one overall pick. And Jaden Daniels is a number two overall pick and he was considered like a third or fourth by Moscow. So like we went and six out of the last ten guys that wound up number one overall picks.

They weren't even considered first rounders coming to the year, including Tyler who is like the number nine overall major league baseball draft pick. He wasn't going to play in the NFL.

So so it's it's a fun exercise, but when you start to look at all of these guys and what the potential is for them and you look at Nico. I don't know if he takes another step with the right supporting cast this year, people are going to have to they're going to have to pay attention because he's more talented than than the guy that we're all saying like there's probably going to be the number one overall pick and don't they more he's just flat out more talented. So Chasney at Holy Cross had this guy Sluka who he used to use, you know, like he would do these design run plays and just would really use his athleticism, which was a lower competition. So it was helpful, but he kind of reminds me a little bit of what he could do with Nico where

you use his jails and he's like really smart ways. Yeah. Yep. There's also a couple awesome non quarterbacks in this draft. Yes. Like Jeremiah Smith who did you see the what was that the Caleb downs was saying he said in some interview that he thought lamb and pick and see was like, no, not Jeremiah Smith is good as those guys like whoa really good someone remind Caleb he's got to go back to the locker room today. Right. Those aren't too like, you know, easy going. Yeah, I get it, you know, like this. Yeah, but but and I actually answered that question like talent wise. Yeah, he's better than both of them. Now, like there's something to be in a better and you know, having the experience and learning to get off a press against growing ass men and all that stuff, but but from a talent's perspective.

And I feel like, yeah, we did it with Marvin Harrison Jr. And look, you know, feel a little burned. I don't say feel a little burned from the marvelous and junior hype. And I hear you, but but here's the other part. Remember the young Julio Jones AJ Green class 2011. Yeah, and I wound up it was it was Julio is the best best receiver in the class and the comp for Jeremiah Smith is Julio Jones. That's who we a big. Is that get down four four speed downhill, just like a freight train running through you, but then can stop and adjust.

“But, but I think the comp for for Cam Coleman, who's transferring from Auburn he goes, I like the refugee camp there where they don't have a quarterback play and winds up with arcs manning now at Texas.”

And I think it's I think there's some similarities with AJ Green kind of like that Gumby elasticity. Oh, interesting. So you have both of those guys ahead of anyone from last year.

I'm not going to name it. The NFL has a couple scouting groups. Let's call it where they pulled different scouts like national bless one of them.

I just went back for a reference. One of them has and their grades are their entry level scouts in a lot of cases. I'm a, but it matches up with what our grades are in the preseason, but just for just so it doesn't feel like we're over hyping it, right mentioned. Like even the one of the scouting services that and it did like 20 plus NFL teams belong to.

“I think it was 20, I counted 24 players with grades this year coming into the season higher than the highest grade of a player last year.”

You can even say it in hoops, too, where they'll have the high school class that's coming in and they're greater from zero to 100 and sometimes it'll be like ninety nine ninety seven ninety seven nine six and it'll just. This is like, wow, that year had more talent than the year after I don't know why this football because we didn't mention. Dylan Stewart.

And then later more the corner back from Notre Dame, both of those guys seem like, yeah, let her move on to the line dude's like he's like Pat Santan.

Like he just throw him in the mix with those like quarterbacks we just talked about and. And yeah, and Colin Simmons after after Dylan Stewart, the Texas line back. In this young's a peer from from Alabama at edge two, so it's three edges, like we could have another like Khalil Mac.

“Today being clowny type, well, he's a better player with this guy's a better upside like.”

And they kill our offensive linemen, too. This is them that netty draft.

So you could have the 10th pick in this draft and get somebody who might be like a three time opera.

Yes, yes, it's going to be what you you kind of the 23rd pick in this draft and they might, you know, that range could be better as I just was saying that range could be better than like. Maybe a 7th overall pick less or this year. So my last question, I'm not going to I'm not going to ask you who's going to win the national championship because you got to do that. I mentioned your show. For my people for the people who listen to this who are both die hard college fans, but also casual just put it on in a Saturday.

Who is the must watch team this year? Or give us like your top three give us your bronze silver gold three teams that are just going to be guaranteed the entertainment all year. I'm going to have a lot to watch in their games. LSU, I mean, I was you, is that are they bronze silver gold. I'm going to go gold. Well, it's cool for LSU.

And then they might wind up with three or four losses, but like Lane kiff and leaving Ole Miss in the college football playoff quarterback who he he he found is the 246 fifth ranked juco quarterback not put a player quarterback. Brought him into Ole Miss and Trinidad Chamble has developed them into that game against Georgia the Chamble's had was the best tape outside of maybe Mendoza versus Ohio State that I saw any quarterback last year. And then leaves in the quarterback so I can not see Lane like I'm I'm good here. I'm going to stay here.

Early in the season they play Ole Miss they kick off the season with Clemson. They now are trying to get three former NFL players who were in camp sign contracts back in. There's an there's another meeting in Baton Rouge or another hearing in Baton Rouge on Thursday with a judge who's got a determined whether they can block the TRO to allow these players to play. They can't play against Clemson, but so like to start the season there's all this mess.

“By the way, I think we know how the Baton Rouge judge is going to.”

Yeah, I want to hurt keep us posted on that trial. Then we get the rematch against the match up against Ole Miss and and then you get Sam Levitt coming in so. LSU and Lane Kiffin is is the like their absolute must watch. You know Oregon's going to Oregon's Oregon in Texas have the best two roster's Texas. I'm more like Texas is either going to run this thing and look awesome and when a national championship. Or you're already hearing some like splintering and like this player was dismissed from the team and there's some social media post.

So Texas would for me as arguably the most talented team in the country. This thing could go remember last year we had Penn State and Clemson came into the year. We talked about them as like these rosters. You know, they're they're ranked one two neither of them finish in the top 25 like Texas is either going to be like right there at the end or this thing could fall apart. You get that feeling and then I'm going to throw. I mean, signetti obviously in Indiana, but I'm I'm going to throw Miami in there watching watching crystal ball like get over the hump last year and when some massive games and not have the errors late late in the games like you know clock management those sorts of things.

And you've got the most explosive dynamic.

We've been in an all college football not named Jeremiah Smith in Malachi, Tony, who's now going to be a true sophomore and I just I think with their schedule in the ACC they're going to be in it late and I think they're going to keep getting better. I think they're they're going to be a freight train towards the I actually we already gave it out so I could say there. I'm picking Miami to win the national championship. Okay, so is that because the other question I'm just going to ask you is if you had to say somebody was going to be 2026 Indiana, who would you pick, but it sounds like it's Miami.

Yeah, look at that list here. We'll see if I can find another.

“Yeah, yeah, my, Miami would be the best. I think that's good Miami would be the pick that would be yeah how many wins for UCLA.”

Eight. Yeah, I think eight and three seems reasonable to me and then maybe you get maybe it's eight and four because you get to the you know some. We play 12 in the regular season. This is what you're talking about. You're going to know that it's casual college football. JMU transfer line backers and we get eight eight four eight four plus playoffs that the playoff win count as. Like, I think I know roller something.

Yeah, you, we'll give you a bowl. We're not going play all eight's happening. That's the best bed in the board right now. Okay, all right, mixed. So I had to mention. So doing all right. We'll see doing all right, Mickey Gasper. Yeah, another red text come from behind. We're in all kinds of fun stuff. He's done. We just did a little retreat out in Montana.

The mentions in the mixed shades. So we're good to go. Oh, no, sorry. Good to see. Don't forget about my shades newsletter, which is excellent. And then the mixture show, which is kicking in a full gear.

Starting this weekend. Good to see you. Good to see you both. Thanks. All right, Diana Taurus is here. Not only is she one of the great women's basketball parts of all time. She was a guest on the last episode of the Grandland basketball hour.

One day before I was, I was basically out at ESPN. So we have, we have a big history.

I had to have you on to talk about. Women's hoops and just what we're watching this year because you were in it forever. Yeah, played in the league. What was your first year? Like, oh, five. Four was my birthday year. Yeah, four.

And now we have these teams. These are running. Gone were over a hundred points all the time. It's guard dependent. I think it's been so much fun to watch. And of course, all the discourse about the WMB is all the stupid stuff

that I have no interest in talking about. I've been marveling at how fun it is to watch women's basketball. What is different? Do you see it?

“Yeah, well, everything like everything in life is it's always trendy.”

And when I got to the WMB in '04, the game was just super physical. It was an older league, right? There was a lot of, like, there was rookies that were 32. You know, probably could just start it. So like, it wasn't this young, energetically. It was like a lot of old veteran players that, you know, played a certain way for a long, long time.

And I want to say, and I think in '07, is when we hired Paul Westett, who's the grew of goat, who's like, who originated like the running gun and, you know, for his whole life, it was, well, that can't work. You can't win a champion like that. And he came into the WMB and not knowing anything about women's basketball.

So I mean, he didn't, I don't even think you knew who I was. He had like zero clue. But he brought the style of playing. And we won two championships in '07 and in '09 with Corey Gaines. And I think that stayed around for a little bit.

Yeah. But people, you know, it's like anything. They don't know what to teach it. They're not convinced with it. So they go back to their old way. So there was a long period where it was heavy, center dominated.

Like, you know, every team had the center. You'd come down and you'd throw it into and pop, pop, pop. And I think in the last, you know, three or four years. Yeah, Cardosa, her style. And even Asia has been the best part in the league for half a decade.

Yeah. But you put your forward at the foul line and face up. Try to either do like spin move and get to the basket or shoot it.

And that was basically everybody's offense.

Yeah. I mean, I played with VG for 10 years. I mean, every team had two, six, five stiffs just to match up with her. Right. Right. It was almost like the NBA and like the 50s and 60s. Right.

You know, you need luck with this stuff. And now we have all these guards that are coming in. Each year, there's been either one or two. Right.

“And Bill, you've got to, you know, it's like you have to adapt the rules too.”

You know, for half my career, there was no three seconds in the key. It's not like there was room to get in there and Euro step. I mean, there was six people clogging the lane. You know, that like, you know, 80s and early 90s in B.A. where there's just no room to operate.

I mean, we could go on and on about that stuff.

“Would you have had what are your stats if you're in your prime in 2026 on the right team?”

Well, I mean, I average, I think 25 for like five straight years. Right. I mean, free throws are up three point percentages up points per game is up. I think you're you're in the high 20s, maybe 30. I mean, I think the way it's trending, you're going to see someone average 30 in the next two or three years.

And, you know, with the addition of teams, you know how that goes. You add a lot of teams, but there's also now a lot of more bad teams as we see like an NBA. Where, yeah, people are going to be putting up 42 every night. If your planning gets a bad team that has something to compete for. Right.

And there's three point shooting. Is that a whole other level than it was? Well, I mean, we watched the game all the time. And I still have to adjust like, was that a good shot? Are we really just taking that shot now?

Oh, would you just even come down and just take any wide open shot by any player? I mean, there is a different type of playing now that I think Westhead gave us that a little bit. But, you know, that's not how that's not how we grew up playing the game, right? First of all, everyone touches it, no one's touching the ball now. Right.

Well, do you think that is that a regular season thing? Because I wonder in the playoffs when the stakes are higher, or are we going to see people pull up from the arc and take 30 foot threes in the football right? I'm going to say no. No, you know, in the playoff, everything is tighter. Right.

Everything, you know, the election player, but more physical positions are less. You know, teams aren't turning it over as much, so you're not playing transition. I mean, I think those are the teams.

I mean, Coach Rimmer would always say it.

I think the last two and a half months of practice going into the NCAA tournament. All we work on was half court offense.

“Because that's the only thing that I want you to jump ship.”

You can talk about defense and rebounding, but if you can't execute in the half court, you're not going to win. I mean, that was the next we just watched it in the playoffs with them. Came down to execution late. I mean, I've never seen a team be outplayed four straight games and be up three one. I've never seen that in my life.

What was the luckiest championship you went? Did you have a lucky one or did you? We're all them the right championship. But do you have one where it's like, man, some stuff went right for us? I mean, in 2007, that's when we were just, you know, we were all in our mid 20s.

We're no clue what we were doing. You know, it was our first, first year in the playoffs. We get to the finals and we're playing the Detroit shock. You know, Bill Lambier is the coach at Swin Cash, Katie Smith, Tweety Nolan. Yeah.

I mean, this is like, it's like bad boys, bad, bad girls 2.0. Like they just want to championship. Two like distinct ways of playing basketball. You know, they were ground in pound. Like you said possession rebound throw it up.

Go get it. And we were the opposite. We were like, how many threes can we get up? You know, we played this, you know, fake match up zone, which would get fits. And that there was no business winning that game five and Detroit.

For some reason, you know, when it's your year, it just happens. Sometimes it's your year. It's what happened in the next. Sometimes you need a seven foot five. Got it throw the ball off somebody's back with nine seconds left.

I mean, a crazy tip in and a couple things didn't happen. I mean, who would have thought, Jalen Brenson would be this much of a problem on the court? And I mean, I mean, it not that we didn't know he was a great player. But at a certain point, I was like, can anyone guard this man? Right. No one could guard him.

And he was seemed like he was gaining strength and getting stronger as the playoffs went along, which it should usually be the opposite. He was like, they played like 97 games. And he seemed, it I don't see reminded me a little messy in the World Cup. When you watched messy, it was like 38.

And he's absolutely one of the smaller guys. But he's so freaking strong. And so low to the ground and just keeps coming and coming and coming and picking his spots. And he just figured it out. Well, and there's nothing like mental fortitude.

I mean, that next team was on on a mission. And you know, I'm a like your fan. I know, you know, we're sorry. But you know, it's not it. It wasn't hard to root for that team. Like, yeah.

They were all nice guys. Like, Jalen Brenson is a great guy. Mackay. I mean, they weren't just guys. You wanted to root for because they just played hard.

And even cat. I didn't hear him complain about touches once. He just wanted to win.

“Well, that's what happens when you have in one one.”

You hit a point.

That's where I was always talking about this.

You hit that point where everybody's got to sacrifice something. And as long as people are willing to do it, it gets harder if you've already won. And you have to come back the next year and start sacrificing again when you've already done it. Well, that first time you got to do it. Yeah, I always feel I laugh when I hear the worst sacrifice because, you know, before every season coaches will be like,

"I really have to sacrifice them. You sacrifice, you sacrifice," because it was always that one person. Oh, wait, I have to sacrifice.

Come on, please sacrifice. I got a lot that you did, Deb. I'm not giving up shots. You mean me? No, not me coach.

They should sacrifice minutes and some open looks. But, yeah, that next scene was fun to watch. It was nice to see a team win in that fashion because you hadn't seen it so long. Teamball, unselfishness. You know what, but it's fun.

And the odds, it was fun. But like, what team? Even I liked it. I know what team that is great doesn't play like that.

“And that's why when these teams just put up with, you know, one or two players do it everything.”

I'm like, "That's not sustainable. It's not going to work." Well, is your guy Kobe, right? Well, in game seven, 2010, he's having the worst game of his career. And then he had to figure out how to help the team somehow and he didn't have it. Well, you forget sometimes you need someone to pull you and you through the whole whole.

You know, I think sometimes when you're the best player, there's this notion of you. You have to do it in the big moments all the time. But like, it's usually someone else that like, you know, pulls you through the whole. And then yeah, I don't want to talk about Kobe and Jail and Bronson and, you know, Tatum. But, you know, even that Celtic championship.

I mean, look at all those guys that stepped up that you wouldn't have thought would be the person in those finals. Right. That's why I don't. I know that have to give the finals MVP.

And it's helpful, like for somebody that loves the history of the game. Yeah. It's a good snapshot or who mattered. But, you know, now they added the conference MVP. And I really do feel like it screwed up the Celtics a little bit.

Because Jail and one both, but Tatum was the best guy in the team.

And then we kind of never recovered from that.

That happens a lot actually. In two thousand seconds, it's funny. Kathy Pontics forgot the WMPA finals MVP. I mean, she deserved the 100%. But it happens where teams that that you think that the Asia Wilson would always win the MVP.

Right. And the Brianna Stewart's and, you know, all the great players. But sometimes just, you know, it's the only that five seven games stretch where that's all they counts. This would happen at Tim Duncan and Happy Dome in '07. I'm like, if you're the best player, I'm giving you the finals MVP.

Unless this is so glaringly obvious that somebody else should win. I'm giving me it to the best player. Always. I mean, like even when LeBron was probably always the best player in every series he played in. Right.

Give it to him. He's the best player. That's what it is. Wouldn't that be better? Wouldn't you become friends of the Kobe?

So, you know, we had some touching goals in LA early in my high school years different events. You know, in '96, you know, he was on the lakeers and I was a freshman high school. I mean, that's, I'm saying. And then it was mostly more on the lipid teams that redeem team in 2008 is where we, you know, we practiced a lot together before and after the hotel, the bus rides.

I think that's when we really hit it off. The way we kind of. Well, you're both sociopathic competitors. We love each other. We're both addicts and we kind of.

We kind of fell in love with each other because of that. Because we understood each other. Like when other people thought, oh, you can't go. You can't, you can't do it that way. Well, well, then you can do it this way and you can be like everyone else.

That's how we look at it. Look at it.

“What was the best thing you learn from him?”

I mean, his mental strength. I mean, we could talk about the work ethic. Yeah. But when I would watch and play, it was, that was the only thing that mattered on earth for those two hours.

And if it had to players that play basketball could have that, they would fall in love with the game. But they can't get to that point because it's really hard. Yeah.

Yeah, and the work ethic, because you see it, you always hear the story from the Olympics.

When they put all the dudes together and the younger guys are with the older guys who actually know the routine and what to do and they're kind of like. Right. Wait, you're getting up at five in the morning to go to go climb the verse of climber, what's happening? Well, and you emulate it. Yeah, well, a certain point where like, where's Kobe?

You know, because we don't get together at the lobby and the Nike sweet. And we look, he's always gone. He was always at the gym. He had his own driver and he'd go to the gym. Three hours before.

And then he would leave three hours afterwards. I mean, the guy was just insane. He would find a gym. You know, we were in Beijing, found a gym, everywhere we went. Just didn't matter.

He was going to find a hoop. I mean, LeBron's like that. Brady's like that. Jordan was like that. I mean, it seems like you can't turn it off after your career ends because it's like you've.

You were so driven like that. All right, now what would it? Well, I think when you get, you know, in those later years in your career, it's actually the work that keeps you coming back. You get addicted to the daily routine.

“It's almost like it's something that you need to function.”

And you know, was that always a worker like that?

No, like when you're young, you don't understand that.

You know, you can just get up, get on the core, you know, to stretch, lay some up. After, you know, the games over, you do whatever you want. And as you get older, you start learning these routines and these patterns that almost become more important the game. Right, the structure of how to repeat a really good effort over and over. And then there's it.

And it learns that to later. Well, yeah, well, because then there's the physical part where you actually need it. You actually need it. You actually need the two hours of prepping to, I don't know, do a shoot around. Right.

And then that's my thought. My daughter's a division three soccer player. She's a senior. And it wasn't until kind of this offseason that I feel like she totally got it. And she's like, I want to have an awesome season.

I'm working out every single day. And even like she had an internship. She's like, I have to get up at 6 o'clock 30 workout or else I'm not going to be able to work out. It was the first time. That's, that's it.

I'm sure LeBron's like that, too, no matter where he is. I got to get up. I got to work. Well, that out.

“And I think that's when you really become.”

Comfortable with yourself is when, you know, you have an internship. And if you don't work at it, six, you're not going to work out. But you say you got to do it. You have to do it. How when, when you retired, did you feel like you had more years left or you stayed too long?

Or you left at the exact right time? No, I think I just, I hit the nail right on the head. I probably played a couple more years at the level I was playing. I feel like, you know, but at that point. There comes these little moments where you rather be somewhere else.

Right. You know, I mean, you, I mean, counter. You missed out on some of the great stuff that's happened the last two years. I feel like you're one of the people that built the league and kept it alive. You know, and now it's actually like has real momentum.

Yeah, but you know what?

I feel like I gained all the things that they'll never have.

Like what? Like role travel. I feel like I can at this point as an adult. I can be in any room with any human being on earth. And be able to function.

I actually live a normal life for as much as, you know, as many things that's come my way. I don't walk around with a bodyguard. I go to the grocery store. You know, to me, like, I haven't become a person that can't function in normal life. And I actually kind of love it.

I don't take that granted.

“And, you know, in going forward, it's all the things we want to, right?”

More coverage, more money, but with all that, you know, comes a different type of lifestyle that all these women are living differently now. Like after games, we would all get together and go to restaurant and have dinner. Like, you know, now it should become you play, you get on a plane, you fly somewhere, you get a, you know, which is great for performance, but for lifestyle wise.

I don't know how much fun they're having. Well, which when you have more success that brings scrutiny and backlash. And more money, more problems.

And then people using, you know, I always call it the volleyball because people,

something they'll just drift in. They just want to hit the volleyball back and forth with their, they're arguing about it. And we're like, oh, let's do a WMBA. They just bring it in. They hit it back and forth.

They watch the games. Well, it's been funny with the WMBA because, um, you know, it's been a lot of new media, which has been great. Obviously, this is, we've always wanted it. And I've always said this where, you know, for a long time,

it was always fluffy, positive media. That's not real, right?

“You have to, you have to find people that, you know, counterpoint and make these arguments.”

It's what we've always wanted. But, you know, it's a lot of people who haven't followed the league in a long time. So they say things without context. And there's backstories, everything. I mean, you know, you can't, you can't make a comment about the MBA

without the last 30 years of knowledge that you know. Yeah. Because each thing kind of is the result of something that happened maybe 10 years ago. You know, CBA or what happened with a team or players. There's a lot of backstory.

And, you know, I think the more we acknowledge that and the more we study that, well, then, you know, the commentary can become educated in a little bit more, you know, intelligent instead of, you know, so this role, like, a fouls. I mean, it's basketball. Everyone fouls a shit out of each other.

You know what I mean? Like, it's, yeah, that's what it is. You're trying to score on trying to stop you. Yeah, just wait till the playoffs, whatever, whichever guard. Oh, really good guard on whatever team gets to the last four or final four or whatever.

Olivia Miles, when she's gone to the basket, it's going to be a little different. Well, we know this stuff. You know, and I think as fans, we have to go back to the competition part. I think that is the one thing that, you know, with all the rule changes. And, and it's, it's kind of strange.

It's like the more money you make, you know this.

I mean, we were making pennies and we were, we were just, we were going through a wall.

Hamstrings, back injuries, broken hands. Right. It was like, why are we doing this? We're not making any money. You left.

Oh, you left and nobody blamed you. You were like, why am I doing this? I'll go make more money somewhere else. This isn't worth it. But the last time we chatted, I was in my living room in Russia.

Right. And we were talking about the warriors. That was the last time. Yeah, and I was in Russia and I was making the money that I wanted to make.

“And well, that's why I think people actually care about this.”

I want to see the league continue to prosper. When they do stuff like when they did the three expansion teams, which I hated. Yeah, I just don't think there's enough talent for it. You mentioned how like, yeah, the points are going to be up because you're going to have nights where you're just playing a shit team.

That's when you overexpand too fast, that's what happens. Well, I mean, it happens in every league, right? I mean, every league. We have all his 80 years of history. I mean, half the nights, I put on, you know, MBA league pass.

And you can give me front row tickets to 99% of those games I wouldn't go. Right. I mean, there's a lot of bad teams. A lot of, and we talk about, and I'll go back. We talk about there's not enough talent for the rosters.

There's not enough talent to coach. How about coaches? And about officials. Well, that's another conversation. Yeah.

What league doesn't have bad officiating? I mean, you watch the NFL and you're, you know, oh, that's a terrible flag. You know, the only sport that has the right is tennis because it's robots.

“Do you, do anybody jump out out of these younger people that you're watching?”

Wow. That's one of the most special women's basketball players I've ever seen. Well, I think you live your miles as a special talent. I've been trying to tell people. She's, you know, I think she was a little under the radar because she did leave

Notre Dame and she went to TCU, which was a little bit of a smaller school. But, you know, this kid is doing stuff that we, you know, she has Kyrie like handles. She can shoot the basketball. She's, you know, she can get in the lane.

And I always said, if you can shoot and you can pass, you can play forever.

So when I'm watching, when I watch page, you know, when I watch page play, I see the complete package on and off the court. On Olivia, you can see it how she's defended, which I think is always a good, a good, a good, but, but, my test of how good somebody is, you're watching. She has a head of steam.

Yeah. And the people are going backwards. And she has everybody on a rope. And then you mentioned Kyrie earlier. She has that Kyrie removed when he sticks his right arm all the way out.

And holds a kind of a head of the defender and is able to put the lay up off the glass with a, with like a nice soft gun. She just has it. And I mean, to be put in a position where, you know, you go to a team that, you know, they have everything, you know, roster wise.

I mean, what is a incredible opportunity for her to be on a team that is expected to win a championship. Obviously, we know what, you know, they're coaching staff like and, you know, the pedigree of players that they have. I mean, it's the perfect scenario for her to really, you know, being the driver seat in this league for like the next 10 to 12 years.

And then when I see page, I just see, I see everything with page. You know, a lot of times you have the player that can control the locker room. This facility doesn't have the talent to, you know, have that, that weight when they say things to their teammates. She has both. I mean, she walks into a room and everything just changes.

Everything just changes when pages in the room. And you can see it with her team.

“I think that's a dangerous first round team.”

Oh, I watched a game when they beat Indiana, like 10 days ago, whatever. And they, they just both guards were going the wreak I got really going. Yeah. That's kind of a nightmare matchup. It reminds me of in the mid 90s.

And the playoffs want to be best of five. And you could just go against the wrong. You play like the sons and all of a sudden you're down to one in a series. Because two of their guards got hot, but I wouldn't want to play them. And I get to say I really like the way Indiana's playing too.

I mean, I felt like, I felt like the, all the outside stuff was suffocating, especially Caitlyn just didn't seem like she was having fun playing basketball. And then the last, last month or so, I keep saying they remind me of those Nash sunsteens, where they just go, go, go, everything's built around her. They have two awesome guards.

I don't know who's going to win the title. I don't, I don't know, but if Caitlyn and Kelsey keep playing like this, they're going to be the hardest out in playoffs. I mean, they're going to be so hard to guard in the playoffs. I mean, what Caitlyn doing is right now is just unheard of.

It's just kind of ridiculous when you think about what she's doing. Yeah.

You know, I've always said this about her and I've always admired this about her.

And you alluded to it, there's just so much stuff around her. But the minute she walks on to the court, it all goes away for her.

I'm not sure what it is, but man, when she gets going and the numbers that she's putting up. And and and doing it in winning, right? Like that's the whole point is to do it to make your team better. And she doesn't single night. You know, and then now they're, we get to watch them all play on the national team.

So it'll be fun. All right, so you're not going to believe it, but I didn't agree with the World Championships decision either. I thought they had that you're so much momentum from this season. You're just stopping. Should I call Sue?

Should I tell Sue? So she agree? Well, I mean, it's fun.

We've never, we've never, we've never had a break for World Championships.

It's only been for Olympics. This is the first time. I know, this is the first time we've ever done it. I know, it's, you know, but that's the life of it. You know, the WMB is always lived.

We've always had 11 these, you know, different worlds where other things take precedent. People miss training camp, we've got to stop the league for the Olympics. And now it's happening again for Fiba. You know, I think we're coming to a point where the WMB will finally take priority. And, you know, hopefully it's soon, but yeah, I hate the break.

It's the worst, you know? It's, it's terrible. It's terrible for the teams that come back and don't have shit to play for. And it's terrible for teams who are trying to get to the third to the fourth seed. You know, like, it's, it's, it's, it's tough all around.

It's kind of something we've always done. And, you know, as, as a player for a long time,

“you kind of just whatever jersey you put on, that's what you do.”

Do you immerse yourself for that two, three weeks with, you would say basketball. And then the minute you get back to, you know, Vegas, Indiana, Dallas, Phoenix. Put that jersey back on and you, you give it a go. I don't love it. I think certain teams had momentum, certain teams were losing momentum.

I don't know. Because there's a little rock paper scissors with the league this year. It's been thrown a gamble on, actually. But, you know, golden states like the defensive team. Right.

Vegas has Asia, but the guard's a little weak. Indiana is super fun up and down to play. Dallas sees like the wild card. Um, and kind of who play Sue. And then the liberty, I don't.

Well, they've been so banged up all year. I don't know what to make of them. Well, I mean, who would want them to play them? Is it the A.C. That's just kind of what you just talked about.

That's a crap shoot, too. You play, you play New York as the A.C. I mean, what a reward for being the one seed.

“Can we talk about this, Asia Wilson thing really quickly?”

Hmm. I don't like it because you were my goat. But if she wins five straight MVP's, I don't know what to do with this information now. I mean, you do what you do with it. I mean, that to be MVP five time.

That's unbelievable. Nobody does that. No one does it. I mean, who did it? Did dream even have five?

No. Nobody in the NBA has done this. Not one NBA player. No NFL players. Nobody.

Nobody does this. You know, I mean, how could you not say she's to go? If she wins five in a row. I mean, even with four rows. I don't know what's on that either of the W and VA.

You know, and to do that and win.

“You know, I think that's been the most impressive thing is she's carried.”

Obviously, early, they were just loaded. They had just tremendous young talent. You know, she's had to carry a big load of it.

And but the thing with Asia that's so impressive, I've never seen a player.

And I'm always, I always have these deep conversations with other basketball minds that I trust. And I'm like, you are who you are. There's not a lot of players that, you know, I met earlier on in my career that just became a great pastor, a great decision maker, or a great shooter. Yeah, you can improve a little bit, but usually who you are is who you are. When I saw Asia in college, I would have never thought she would have got to this point to be honest.

And that's just a credit to hurt being in the gym. You know, people always say, well, you know, during the summer, I want to add this. She actually did it. Every summer, every office and she's added something. That's really hard to do.

And with people are like, oh, she could do this, this or this. And they guess wrong every time and she just see the gross by the number, she's over them. And it just gets whatever shot she wants every single time. But when I say someone's going to average 30 or maybe even 35 is going to be hurt. I mean, no one literally, she is a matchup nightmare for every single team.

There's maybe like two or three players in the whole league that could, you know, make it tougher her. Yeah, I don't even know. Is it a smaller person who's like physical? Is it somebody with more size?

So she can't, I don't even know what the answer is.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's multiple, you know, coaches love that. We can't give him a steady diet. I don't know. I would try to run them up and down and get and shoot out with them would be my move. Well, you know, in a lot of times when you were the best player, you usually, you usually guard the shitty display on other teams.

You know, it's like you get her in foul trouble either. So you think it sounds like you think Minnesota is going to win. I mean, Minnesota strong. If he comes back from this real championship at the level that she's used to playing, which is pretty much unstoppable on the court with her in miles and the way Caleb and Bryce shoots the ball.

I always judge it.

“Yeah, I was judge about the shots in the last four minutes.”

Do I like the shots you're getting? I was just what I was doing with the NBA. I was like their shots. I was feel like they have all these options late. And if worse comes to worse miles, we'll just go buy somebody and create something.

Well, I mean, we always said there's nothing like having shooting and passing on the court.

You know, if you have an abundance of that, you can run whatever play you down one. Because the game of basketball, all it's about getting that advantage, like you said, you just managed somewhere to create. And a lot of teams don't have a lot of those players. So the offense gets really hard. And you know, I mean, we see that with the NBA where, you know, there's teams that just can't get good shots at the games.

The colour is back. Of course, the colour is back. And of course, the colour is back. After a lot of games. What?

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“There was a documentary about Tennessee and Pat Summa in the early 2000s, I want to say.”

I think it was on HBO. And it was a big template for what we wanted to do for 30-30 because it was like, "We're going in. You're going to learn about Pat Summa in this team." It was so riveting.

But my big takeaway, I don't know if it's online anymore, was just how intense it was day to day. With her and the players and the emotions and the games stood in, people come in, they're like sobbing, it was like game 16. It's like six girls sobbing around the walkers, and she would come in.

And it was just fascinating to watch somebody with that much control over their universe. And it seems like he's the same way. Oh, absolutely. I remember watching that one, actually. Remember she?

Yeah. She iced her ankle for like 48 straight hours. Because she's left in the locker room. Yeah.

It was the first time. I never saw anything like that or like, "Holy shit."

Yeah, there was a lot of things. You know what? There's a time in your life. I think where you can handle that, and it's definitely when you're in college. Right.

You're young and dumb. You're young and dumb, and you don't know any better, and you're searching for things that you can hold onto to make you a better player, better teammate or whatever it may be, but I think those days are over. I don't think you can do that anymore.

So it means even more. Like, I think when you watch a documentary like that, you're watching something that I don't think you can do anymore. It doesn't exist anymore. I mean, you definitely can't do it to the pros, right?

Like, can you even, can you even, like, do 10% of that anymore? Your guys are making 30, 40, 50, 60 million a year. And the moment they're unhappy, they could just push the way out. Get out, get out.

“That's why we have so much coaching of people over here in the NBA.”

The expulsors, the oldest expulsors. I think they all this coach now. Well, the longest tenured. Yeah. Curse second.

And Joe Masola might be in the top five.

And it's really funny because you actually, before you go there, he walks into your living room and he tells you exactly what he's going to do.

which sounds terrible if you really think about it. You know? And then you get there. And it's, you know, it's boot camp. It's hard.

Everything's hard. Every single time you walk into the gym, it is mentally and physically taxing. There was no day where you would walk in and you would let your guard down.

You were always in fighter flight.

Like, that was just, that was the type of environment that he created.

“Does it bother you that you kind of women's basketball just in general?”

Is regarded in America the same way kind of the Duke men's team has become. We're like the team people root against because he had so much success. That's just your lot now. You're the Yankees. You're Duke basketball.

Like, you're the Patriots. I'll check. You're just in that mix now. I mean, I guess that's what happens when you win a lot. Yeah.

You know, everyone loves the, the underdog story. So if a person that wins all the time, and then it's like, Is this fair for the sport is parody, but no one ever liked basketball and there was parody. I liked basketball when it was Duke when it was you con when it was the bulls. Yeah.

When it was the Patriots when it was the Lakers in the 2000s. That's when I loved sport the most. You know, the Yankees when you have these dominant, amazing teams. And it's people, I think people take for granted how hard it is to do that. How hard is to get all those players on the same page?

I mean, we've seen all these super teams that just explode because it takes a certain character of certain personality, certain coach. And you don't have to be best friends either, right? Where do you know, check where set super balls together? It's okay that they're not going to go vacationing and like Tahoe. Well, I think the whole being friends with their coach thing is across the shit.

“Like, I think that's what's made, you know, the environment of coaching and players these days.”

So up and down, you want to be my friend. You want to be the, like, I don't need a friend. I need a coach. No, I have friends. I have friends.

I have friends like go and talk to and talk shit with.

Like, that was the one thing with the coaches that they fought that always brought out the best.

We had a personal relationship, but we weren't friends. They weren't worried about my well-being. You know, every single day. I mean, that was the beauty of Coach West had. Coach West had what to walk into practice.

We practiced for two hours, and then we wouldn't see him ever again. We would, we would get on the plane together. We could get off the plane, and then we would never see him again until shoot around. You know, there wasn't this list go get coffee. Let's go talk about the game plan.

There was a separation of church and state. I wonder, like, if this is part of the social media era and just in general well-being and all the mental health stuff that's happened over the last ten years and awareness for all that. And just coaches screaming at players just doesn't seem like if it's in and there. Well, I mean, you know, back then you just walk into the gym and you practice. Now, you know, the last two or three years in the WBA, you know, the coach there.

So how do you feel from a skeleton one to ten? Right. What the fuck? I'm fucking 42. I feel like shit.

Let me alone. I can't leave me alone. Let me talk about my feelings. It's almost worse because all they do is talk about the feelings that they do have. You know, it's like more feelings and more all these feelings.

And, you know, I've always been, you know, all the talent family just shut up and do the work.

They get the feelings out later. Like, it was, you know, and I don't think you could do that anymore. Because, you know, once you let the genie out of the bottle and put it back in. What do you do competitively now to get your fix? It's got to be something.

I tend to think off for my, like, go to like love tennis. I play tennis is a little kid and I always loved it. And then I just, you know, basketball got on the way to that. And then, and then I love to go off. It's the, the two things I really do enjoy.

Tennis doubles or singles singles singles singles singles singles. You're gonna hit the head. I mean, I'm a motto. I don't need, you know, like, I played a team's for for a long time. I just wanted to be, I don't want to worry about someone else's feelings.

For hand or backhand. For hand. For hand. For hand. For hand.

So you're loading up on the forehead. Western forehand grip, and I just let it go. Actually. Yeah. I wish there was, like, a celebrity tennis tournament.

I bet it would be fun to watch you in that.

“I think the US Open, John McRow does one every year.”

I'm still not where I want to be to play in it. Kind of like in golf where they go to Lake Tahoe and getting there. All right. All right, Dan, it's our assy a pleasure as always. You get the best.

Will you come back during the playoffs? Oh, wait. Let's do it. All right. You're gonna watch, right?

Yeah. You made that sort of, you know what happens when you retire. It's like, you keep all you watch the game and all I see is mistakes.

Yeah, I know. I know.

“That's why I like to watch tennis and soccer because I can watch as a fan.”

I'm still in that threshold where I watch it.

And I'm still watching players I played against. So give me another year. But yeah, I'll come on with you, though. Oh, wait. All right.

Good to see you. A pleasure as always. Thanks. All right.

That's it for the podcast.

“Thanks to Todd and Diana and Gahau and Eduardo.”

Don't forget, we watch most aliens. Is up. And I'm going to be back on my podcast on Thursday.

Hopefully with a special guest who comes once a year.

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed. We'll see if it happens. Anyway, see you Thursday. [MUSIC PLAYING]

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