NBA Draft Questions, Harper vs. Fox, and the USMNT’s World Cup Ceiling

The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by PayPal. We are also presented by the Ringer podcast network, where it is from Hell Month on the rewatchables. We put up hand that rocks to cradle this week.

“I think we're putting up domestic disturbance,”

the goods on, and Pacific Heights all before the end of June, because this is from Hell Month. So you have all that to look forward to. All those movies are on Netflix, by the way, as well. I'm going to be at Netflix on Sunday night with Zach Lowe.

We might have a mystery third with us, as well.

So probably 5pm, 6pm, ET range will be going live for an hour and a half, getting you ready for a big MBA week that's coming, speaking of. Tim Legler is coming up in one second, and we're going to be talking about the draft,

what we learned from the finals, how does that help team building predictions, all kinds of things? And then I'd love the world cup. I've watched the ton of it. So I made Anthony DiBundo come on,

and we talked about USA's semi-finals chances. Final eight chances, some sort of chances. Things are better. Things are optimistic. A huge game coming on Friday.

I hope you're going to be out at a bar, or somewhere fun watching it.

But so we talked to the Bundow,

“and that is the podcast for Intick Break, Pearl Jam,”

and then Tim Legler. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by PayPal. You know, a clutch move when you see one. A no-look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steel, well,

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Terms and exclusions apply. See paypal.com/rewardsterms, credit card points, subject to issuers, terms and conditions. (upbeat music) All right, so we're recording.

It is Thursday afternoon, late Pacific time. Tim Legler is here. He did not join us during the finals 'cause he was calling the finals.

“And we were coming live after every finals game.”

I wanted to sub-draft MBA stuff and then at the end of this, I want to talk about what it was like to be there for such crazy series. I was so excited today.

I read that you're involved with the MBA draft to serve free SPN. I had this whole plan for stuff to talk about. I didn't know where we were able to, I didn't know you were a prep for the draft.

This is unbelievable. Well, listen, to be full disclosure, I'm not fully. I still have a few days to get there because this was kind of also a late in the game ad for me to be part of it.

I mean, it's good fun. It's exciting, but at the same time, yeah, like there's a lot to acclimate yourself with. And I've been doing nothing, honestly, but over the last couple of days,

but watching a lot of film on a lot of guys. Just I saw my new scene enough of kind of had a feel, but even those guys to really get into the weeds, you need to see more film on guys. And then there was a bunch of other dudes

when you start getting down anywhere from 10 to 30 because I'm just doing the first night. So I'll be involved with the first round. So like you got a lot of catch up to do. So I've kind of been the midst of doing that more or less.

I did the draft two years and I had an incredible amount of fun just diving a half hour in each guy and then basically making a decision on how I felt. - When did the draft say had Janis?

And I'm like, I don't know, man, he looks pretty good, but it looked like he was playing against 13 year olds. - You know what? I'm gonna tell you something though. Here's the truth.

Like, you know, the new thing,

and I don't think it's always the case,

but the new thing is with the draft is like, the player comps. - Yeah. - Right. - So drop a player name and it's funny

because and I'm looking and so in my research, I didn't in my film work and I'm pulling different stuff up and you're seeing a different player comps dropped by whatever source, so I'm not gonna get into those, but whatever the source may be.

And I'm just like, man, I don't like these. I don't like the comps because I feel like,

and you either go and weigh out on a limb. Like damn, man, that's a big reach

because we have no idea ultimately

“how a guy is gonna swim at the next level.”

And a lot, there's a lot that goes into that, man, like fit early, just heartwork ethic, handling pressure, maturity, and like you can do all the homework you want. You don't know, man, until those guys put an MBA uniform on, so some of these comps, I'm going, wow.

Okay, that's a big bite, but then there's other guys, I'm like, oh, that's not fair enough to the guy. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think the comp is enough. So, and I feel like either way five years from now,

like you set yourself up to just get absolutely taken apart. Like, if you put a comp out there, a sub guy that's like a fruity law star and dude's boss, like you're gonna hear about that in a big way, in other words,

I'm not a big fan of the comps. So I'm just, I'm just, I look at these things. I have some bad news for you, all right. I was the one, my draft, that was my big idea for the 2013 draft to do the player's comps.

I'm Dr. Oppenheimer of this whole thing. Wait, are you the guy? I was, I was Dr., that was my big idea. It was like, each player will do a comp of whatever,

and then that it's second year I did it,

we blew it out even further. And so you're that guy, I am. I started to push stairs off, Oppenheimer in the movie, like you stairs off and he's seen math theorems and all that stuff.

You're seeing, you're seeing former players. Like, just don't see around in your head. I thought it would be a good way for the audience to understand what they were doing, but it's, and we did it for the Grandland draft guy,

we do it for the Ranger draft guy. It's, it's really hard, 'cause if you do the wrong comp or you don't, put enough thought into it, it can go on. Sideways is possible.

Have you changed your opinion then on, on like, even giving the comp? It's like, you know where I've got it. It's just blatantly obvious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I rarely do,

“like, it's almost like there's pieces of different guys, right?”

Like, when I watch Caitlin Wilson, and I just, his, you can watch 20 minutes of him on YouTube and think he's gonna be one of the best 15 quarters of all time. Like, just see the way it's edited, you're like,

"Oh my God, this guy's Jonas Cross with Bam Cross." You know, and the problem with this stuff is you're seeing like the absolute best of the best. It's a greatest hit of whatever the college season was, which is why.

You have to go watch like, true. You have to watch the last five minutes of different games, like to really do this correctly. You gotta see them in different pressure situations. That's a great point.

And I also, the, all the other thing is, like, the guys that you're comparing them to when they get the comp, that's that guy at his very best, and you're going okay with these guys, most of these guys are 19, right?

Like, man, you know, so whatever, if there's some things that are clearly obvious with their physical profile, and maybe, in addition to like sort of like stylistically, okay, but like, that's the problem.

I have, you start throwing out guys that are, you know, every year in all start, all the famer, all league players from the past, I'm like, man, that's a lot for a dude that's 19, and when you've just go back and look at the last 15 years

of the draft, there's a lot of dudes that were picked in the top 10, and that you kind, that hell all kinds of comps from all star players from the past. And a lot of those guys weren't even in the league

in three or four years. With all that said, if you watch Darren Peterson's high school tape, he kind of looks like Kobe. Like those are the comps where you're like, hey, kind of looks like Kobe, like it's,

I don't know, is that a player? - A cup or is that just so bad to tell me? I have, I have gravitated. I've been fascinated by the draft my whole life, and even doing it those couple of years was really helpful, but I've landed at the point,

I really value what I just watched in the playoffs when I think toward the draft, and that's where I've landed the last couple of years, and I feel like there's basically like three bucket of players, and I wanna figure out,

like just the pure studs, right? So the first four guys in this draft,

“I think flag was like this, Dylan Harper was like,”

just like these guys are studs, they're gonna make it. They're gonna be at very least starters. They have all NBA potential, like that's a bucket. And then I think the next group for me is playoff guys. And playoff guys to me means wings that can defend,

and hit threes and not hurt you offensively, but can switch on defense and just confit in a series, big, so you can defend the rim and rebound, and maybe even stretch the floor a little, and then guards that can give you offense and not kill you.

Basically, those three buckets is playoff guys. And if you look at the draft last year, Murray Boyles, I think when, pretty good, 9 or 10. 10th, I think, maybe 10th, coward went 9th, Carter Bryant, who I thought actually could have prayed

probably a little more, saying the Tony of 14th,

but we're always taking these guards ahead of these guys.

And sometimes I wonder, like, is this just the undervalue over and over again every year?

and yet they always go 3, 4, 5 picks to late.

- Yeah, no, I think it's a good point.

“I also think, like Carter Bryant's fascinating guy to me,”

and I went, you go back to like last summer. First time I saw him, I had seen a lot of film that I called his first game in Vegas in summer league. And I was like, this guy was, he was so much more athletic than everybody else out there to me.

And he's so rangey and bouncy and hyper energized. And I'm like, man, this is the type of dude. If he figures out how to shoot a little bit, this is the type of guy that you look at down the road for five years, is like, I know,

elite perimeter defender. And I still think he's got a chance to get there, and the good news for him is perimeter shooting really came a long way this year. - Yeah.

- Now, you know, and Mitch Johnson clearly shrunk trust a little bit when they got deeper into the post season. And look, he did play him in one game. We called, you know, against jail and three straight possessions. And jail and brunch and just went right into the paint

and just body to mop and footwork them to death and made three straight buckets. And it was demoralizing probably for this young kid. But look, my point is, he's another dude that we didn't talk much about

'cause we were spending so much time on Harper. This is another guy that got that's going to be a big part of their future. There's no question in my mind. - Yeah, and that's a guy that in a play officer

is he makes sense to me. It's clearly like a four. He could guard different positions. So when I look at like Res Johnson on Michigan, and he's all over the place, right?

Like he's in our draft guide, he's 13. I've seen him in mock drafts. He's like 10 to 14. And yet he's the kind of guy like, okay, so you'll take him at 12.

And you're like, of course, of course they took him. That's going to be who it is. But what's, what's to, we can talk about some of the needs to have played her. The top four is so much fun.

And I'm always a big take the guy

that you think is the best guy. Like, figure it out. You have months and months to study these guys. How they would fit in with your team. Just go out on a limb and take your guy.

This is one of the only times I ever remember looking at a top four like this and thinking, I kind of be okay trading down to four. Like if I was Utah too, and I couldn't decide, it's like I might be okay moving backwards to spots

and getting even more stuff if somebody was super excited about Peterson. But who's your favorite out of these four? - The bunch is my guy, the bunch is the guy.

“I believe that, I think that'll be the pick”

it should be the pick. I think what we're hoping for is that he's enthused about the situation. I mean, he's hard to tell you very stoic. - Yeah.

- He actually came into the green room in, I think we're in San Antonio. I don't remember what game during the finals. He happened to be there that day. They brought him in.

I think his dad, they came in and we met him and talked to him a little bit and I was joking. I'm like, hey man, I give you good restaurants in Washington, but it's been 30 years since I played there. 26 years.

So I think they probably changed. We had a joke about it, he's very serious guy, man. And I'm just like, maybe that's just kind of how he's wired because I know a lot of people read into the lottery

happened and the wizard was got the first pick

and he was there and they showed him and he just looked so serious, borderline unhappy. And I just was like, man, let's just give him this just give him a little bit of slack here, right? This is overwhelming to him.

He is now gone from, you know, in the last two years, you think about you're trying to find your way as a high school player hitting the AAU circuit, climbing the charts and now you're the number one pick, a presumptive number one pick in the draft.

You know, going to a team that's had, you know, hasn't won a lot in a long time. It's a lot to process and maybe people are viewing you a certain way. So I'm not going to read into that.

He's the guy because I think his, what he could do from a skill standpoint, combined with the physicality that he brings and some of those metrics, that combination. In versatility in his game, I feel like

he's got a greater margin to find his lane, because I'm not sure exactly what ultimately is ceiling is,

“but I think he does kind of like everything well.”

And he's very athletic and he's strong and he's tough, and he seems serious about this. He's a worker. He looks like a guy to me that like, you go, okay, we bring him in because we think he's the best guy.

Not exactly sure how we're going to plug him in, how we're going to use him. What his ultimate strength is primarily early offensively. Doesn't matter because there's a lot to work with. I think for me, combination of size,

the toughness athleticism with the skill set, I think this is the right pick. - I landed there early February. I watched these guys for a while and at some point it was like, what are we doing?

He's got to be the first pick, especially because you don't know what his body's going to look like five years from now, you know, he already looks like he's 26. And you think about, you know, some of the guy like the Tatum, J.L. Brown guys like that,

how they grew into these adult bodies, by the time they were 25, 26, 27, like the muscle he's going to put on, he played their position. By the way, Washington's taking him.

That's how this is playing out.

- For sure, and he's going to grow up. When we look at, look at their roster and the number of like top 10 picks on their roster, they've got a lot of lottery picks there. - Fits in with what they have.

- Developing nicely does. And the one thing they don't have though, they do not have a face of the franchise type of guy. They don't.

They've got some some former number on pick. Our former lottery picks. And like, sorry to the top of us for me, like he's grown tremendously. I really like his game.

But this, this guy is different because of the nature of the position. This is a guy that you could put the bonus hands in the open floor in the half court. He can go get his own against guys.

That's a lot harder for a guy as tall as Alex.

So he's never going to have like that type of handle.

Just go break a guy down to bonds that can do it. So they don't have this level of franchise guy, even though they've got some really nice young players. Trade Johnson was a guy who loved last year. Guys are walking bucket, but they don't have this.

This is a different level. A guy that, with that kind of size that can play off the dribble, shoot it, go get his own and break guys down. They don't have that combination.

- And is that a big spotlight on him for a while? - It's the right pick, you know, there's a piece of being wonder as if Boozer also was the right pick for them. And we always talk with the draft that you always hear like floor ceiling, floor ceiling.

Every high floor, low floor, high ceiling, lower ceiling. And Boozer seems like he has both a high floor, but also potentially a high ceiling with the ZIQ. And he's just going to produce, he's been-- - I like that way when you put it that way

build because we've seen too many guys in the playoffs, particularly separation between floor and ceiling, the variance between floor and ceiling. - I don't like their variance with him. - Yeah, and the thing I didn't like about him,

he didn't have that little foul line jumper. I felt like he would be Boeing his way to the basket over and over again when he really wanted to get points which he couldn't college. And then the pros, you're not going to do that in the same way.

“But this is the 19-year-old version of him, you know?”

And we need to think like, these guys, I think he has the competitiveness and the work ethic. I think AJ has it. And the Caleb Wilson definitely has it. - This was a compliment on the way I did like.

Can I tell you the comp I saw that I did kind of like? - Well, was it. - With Boozer, it's Kevin Love. I thought that was a pretty good comp. Think about Kevin Love at his best in Minnesota

before he went and sacrificed a lot to go win.

But his first years in Minnesota,

I think he had a productive he was 'cause he's, you know, Boozer's not a guy's going to play way athletically. He's more of a grounded game. But I think he's going to stretch his shooting out to be a really consistent, deep NBA shooters.

He's already got good shooting, he's got to improve. Obviously, it's a huge thing. Those extra three, four feet. Like you really have to put some time. I think he can get there.

Any ball that he gets his fingertips on off the defensive glass is his very Kevin Love-like. He's smart. He can outlet the ball quickly 'cause he's got a high IQ off the glass.

He gets it out of his hands quick to the guard. That's a Kevin Love trade too. So I don't love a lot of comps. I thought, yeah, Kevin Love. The first I saw it, it's like, let me think about that.

And then I started watching more and more film on Boozer. I'm like, you know what, I don't mind that one. I loved Kevin Love was one of my favorite rebounders of all time when he had the extra 20.

“He couldn't just play some food down there, don't it?”

If he got position, it was game over. And he wasn't going to jump over you at all. He just tried his back on you and he was done, man. One of the best offensive rebounders I've ever seen that earlier version of him.

Like if anything about like the great, great, great rebounders that I've seen in person, and I'm sure you played with and against some of these guys, but Moses was an all-timer. I wrote about this in my book. Moses had this trick where he would kind of go under the basket

almost at a bounce. And then he would just back in backwards. And then he would just be next to the rim tipping it in.

Moses Barkley was incredible.

Kevin Love was another one that Kevin Love also did. Very similarly to it, a big play in the game. What Mitchell Robinson did, so M.B. All right, big, missed free throw. Where they walk guys so deep they can't react to the ball.

It's beyond them. Kevin Love was great at that. I can see Boozer being that type of rebounder because they're not. They're not going to get those ones where you're going to run from point A to point B, cover 20 feet because you're tracking it

with your eyes and then you just go jump over to guys and get it. They're not going to get those kind. It's got to be done a little bit more with body positioning and then just IQ and just their sense and instincts for the ball so high.

“So I think I just think Boozer to your point floor is pretty high with him.”

I'd just be hard to imagine him not being a really impactful M.B.A player. Even if he doesn't turn into a franchise guy, which all 40s top four who knows, maybe they could. He might not, but his floor is so high. It's still he's still going to be a really good M.B.A player.

And I said this a week and a half ago.

I think Utah is going to take them. I've no inside info. It's just as from watching how Danny and she treated the draft for the last 25 years, knowing some of the stuff that you need in Utah, like they know his family obviously because his dad played there and his dad works for them to have a guy

who could be this good who would also be like, yeah, I'm fired up to be in Utah. I think that matters. And I'm not afraid to have in him and I love him and Jared Jackson together. Like to me that that's a combo that really makes sense. Whether marketing is there a long term or not, I don't know.

And then Kessler, as another shop locker, he could play with him too. I just, I'm good with like doubling down on size over taking Peterson and hoping last year was just a weird year. And he's more like the high school Peterson versus the freshman year in Peterson.

“I think Peterson is one of the toughest evaluations.”

We've ever had with this. I don't know what to make of the fact that he got worse in college than he was in high school and that he didn't seem as, he doesn't seem as twitchy. He doesn't seem as fast. I don't understand it.

I don't understand the creatine thing. Like what do you make of all this?

He's first of all, I just, I'm just going from the pure, because a lot of the stuff.

I don't think we have the answers to ourselves, but when you just evaluate the guy physically in his tools translated to the next level, he's one of those guys. You know, I watch him, some of the stuff I've watched, I'm like, man, like, that's NBA ready right now. Like the kind of flat out score, he's got, he's got a control about his game.

That is almost like, even though, like he's out there with another, he has two 19-year-olds pair, or a couple of 20-year-olds or whatever. He just looks so much more mature in his movements, that it's obvious how easy it's coming to him. I can see it on defense too, where just the way he's able to navigate around screens

and stuff. He's as high as possible, level. He's got control, man, but like, I'm watching him, I've read stuff where he views himself and maybe some people are evaluating him as like a point guard. I don't see that.

I don't see that.

“I mean, I think he's, for me, maybe a combo guard that, yeah, you could put him in ball”

screen. To me, I reserve the phrase point guard for like a different level of understanding of how you're organizing and how easily you're facilitating for other people because you're two steps ahead with any action you run. You already know two defenders away what that rotation is going to look like and you're

now you know what the next pass is going to be and so you're processing all of that in real time. I don't see that when I watch him, I see a guy who wants to go score and get his bucket and maybe, yeah, okay, you can run ball screen with him. The scores in this league run ball screen, to use the turn point guard, like this is going

to be a point guard one day that's going to be the guy that's like doing both, making the game easy for everybody while he's also going out and getting 20, 25 and night. I don't know that I see him that way, so this to me is more like you want to raw score and a guy that's super confident, I look at all that size up front already that you tell has a lot of your points are good about booze or like the fact that connection to the

organization or that, maybe that matters to them. Maybe it doesn't and he definitely could play with your own action junior and it's actually something your own action junior needs is a guy next to him that could rebound the way booze or can because he's not a big time rebounder, he likes to block a lot of shots, he spends a lot of time in the perimeter, offence.

He's 12 or even. He's not there. Sixth a game. Yeah. Yeah.

But they think, you know, they already have Kessler, they have marketing who plays a lot of three. That's like another six ten and up guy to add to the mix to play, unless they had other plans for some of those guys and they want to move them and, you know, that's kind of almost beyond my scope of what front office is think sometimes.

“But I look at Peter's and I think he's just a natural raw score.”

So you look at the top of the draft.

First team, the things they need that, that's, that's who should take them.

I think he's a two guard, I agree with you. I don't think he's a point guard, although I do think that line has blurred over the years with the NBA where it's kind of like, I don't think she's a point guard, right? But he is bringing the ball up a lot. But I think you and I, we grew up with like, point guards were actually point guards.

They, their whole role was like table set or almost like a host on a studio show. Or something. Their role is just to make everybody better. But in the garb position, there's no exception to it. And look, you're right, it is blurred more than ever.

But there are exceptions to it for guys that are so dominant, off ball, I mean, off, off, off, off of them, they're ball handling. They're so dominant that they're dictating terms that it defends all the time. And organically shots are being created for people, even if it's not necessarily in their direct wheelhouse.

I mean, like Steph Curry, for example, was he a natural point guard, no, he's a guy that created so much offense to his movement and shooting. And like the depths to which you had to go to guard him, he created offense just organically by being like, Shay with his dribble Brunson even as a guy, you know, is he a natural come down table set or nobody so good at breaking you down organically stuff is created

See, you have to be on a certain level.

If, if you're the lead guard, let's call it that because some people prefer that terminology, if you're the lead guard in the NBA, you want to be a contending team. You better be so damn good because it's not your natural thing to find that you're creating better opportunities to find because you're so talented with the ball. I don't know if he's going to be there or not, it's way too early to know that.

It's the toughest one because there's a, I mean, if you're going to say out of all of these guys, who's going to haunt anyone that passes them up, it's probably this guy,

“because I think he is the highest ceiling of anyone.”

Like the high school stuff from a year ago, which I've talked about on previous episodes, you just like, oh my god, this guy could be like the next guy, you know, and I don't know what happened to him in Kansas, I really get nervous with red flags before the draft. And I say that knowing, I have a 21 year old, and 18 year old, and you watch kids change in real time every six months, every nine months, and all of a sudden, you're like, wow,

my daughter's completely different than she was six months ago. This is great. I can't believe it. It's like she's an adult. So it's so hard. Very, very true. You know, it's so hard to protect this. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and it hits all of a sudden, you're just kind of like, wow, that's nice. Right. And it's like, it's like, front of my told me one time, we're talking about this parenting stuff. And he said,

what you have to trust, like, as a parent is that you made those deposits a long time ago, right? And so one day, like, wow, it hits. And then you cash in and you're like, hey, it worked. They're a good human being. Like, you know, sometimes along the way,

“it's hard being a parent. But like, I think that's what it is. You just trust it. And then”

you're right with some of these players. It's the same thing. This is so difficult, man, because of the way that top picks are scrutinized. If there's even any indication that you whiffed early, it could be overbearing for the player, Ricochet and Atlanta. That they get such a mistake. Yeah. So I'm telling you, Marco Fultz is a guy that I was, I was at the curry camp, the top 30 camp, the year that he was getting ready to go to his freshman year. And I was

watching this guy in a six or so had the first pick inside all my friends, a six or so fans and

size like miles out there and San Francisco. And I was working drills and doing stations and putting these guys to it, coached in the game. They've had all start game at the end of the weekend. I coached in the game. Like, there is Garland was in that game. Like, and I'm like, watching Marco Fultz in a minute, just dude, just dude, has it. Like, he's got the size. He's got crazy bounce, like way more bounce than he ever really even got to show to this point. It's going to be a

career. Like, I would watch him after practice. They would have dunk contest. And I'm watching him with these guys. And I'm like, this dude is big. He's like, powerful. He's got a shifty changes, change a pace. He's got a nasty step back, which is required. And he's got bounce too. So I'm like, man, look, and I think going to that market at that time with what the organization had already been through was, I think, overwhelmed him. And I had injuries too that contributed to it. But I'm just

saying, like, these are so important. They're so scrutinized more than ever before. There's so much at stake for these organizations. And you're trying to determine this off a very limited sample size of work. And you have no idea what this is going to look like at the NBA level. And you just pray that these guys want to put the work into the time, just to tell us there. And again, trust your deposits when you draft them. Put into deposits in now, five years from now, we hope this hits.

Some guys, obviously, sooner than that, some guys never. That's kind of where we're at with

these top, you know, six, seven, eight, nine, ten picks. It's tough, man. The only thing I've learned over the years, competitiveness work ethic. If that's in there, I like the top, the top and the top, you're that you're starting out in good shape there. And then the durability injury stuff is the third piece, right? Folks didn't have that. Some guys come in and then you hear the first guy in the gym last one to leave all that shit. Like, those guys, there's a reason those guys become successful.

Like, you did that finals with, with Bronson. And then Bronson had that great interview after game five where he, where, you know, yet again, all the sudden he scored a bunch of points in around. And he was just like, I just go back to all the work I put in the gym over and over.

“I just pretend I'm in the gym. Like, honestly, that's what that's what this is about.”

You can have as much talent as you want. He's still got to work out there. I look at people. But I will say this one last one, that's quick. Yeah. But I do think the addition to the injury with Marco Fultz. And whatever was it was unique injury, they couldn't really get it. They couldn't get a handle. It was like a weird shoulder and it changed completely changes mechanics into something. It was unrecognizable. I'm just telling you, like, being on a lot of

those games and in that building and being close and kind of just observing. I also think there was a component of it was tough for him being an R1 pick dealing with the injury. And then when he

all eyeballs on number one pick that market. That's tough, man. And I think it was it got to the point where like, they went, well, like, TJ McConnell, we took him out of the rotation at one point completely just because we got to see this guy can go and after a period of time, they put TJ McConnell back in there and he cried when crazy because it was like, we need a guy that can come out of your contributor for whatever reason. He wasn't. I was so happy for him actually when

he went to Orlando and he played pretty well when he first got there and I'm like, man,

hopefully he's going to end up having a long career as a productive NBA guard. But the number one pick, that was difficult for him from the beginning of the injury on top of it made it impossible. Ben Simmons was another one like that pressure, big situations. He had some sort of weird foul shirt and thing that didn't seem like he liked basketball that much. With the with the Peter Sympice, there's some weird agency stuff too where he has he he's represented by team, which

“also is George's agency and that that people think that's why they don't want him to go to Utah.”

So Memphis might be where he goes. I think Boozer is going to go to Utah and I think Peter some will go to Memphis, but who the hell knows. And then we'll we'll talk let's take a break and

then we'll talk about cableism. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by my friends at

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Fandel dot com game problem called 100 gambar call eight eight eight seventy nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpg dot org slash chat Connecticut. All right. So if you were the consultant to the wizards and they're like, hey Tim, I know you do the espan games. We're starting to waft on the bandset. The owner saw the high school tournament where Peterson scored 48 and looked like he was the greatest

“part of all time. Um, is Peterson going to come back to hunt us. What would you do if you were us?”

You would just say no no ride the course. Just stay with the bandset. Don't overthink it. You're 100%. You just I would you literally took words on my mouth. That would be what I would say. Don't overthink this. It happens all the time. Don't overthink this. I don't have really any reservation whatsoever that the bandset's going to be a star in the NBA. How long it takes? I don't know down the road. I mean, look, that's an organization that obviously, you know, I played at a long,

long time ago. There's hasn't been a lot of stability there for a long time. So like it's it's a situation. But you young dudes now, you know, trade young saying, you know, opt out. I don't know what that means for them. It's Anthony Davis going to be bought into being there of trades. Not you got all these other young, a lot of picks. I doubt Anthony Davis is going to want to be part of that. So so it's this young group of dudes all high picks trying to figure this out together.

He becomes the face overnight. So there's certainly some like there's not pressure, which is good for some young guys. But it's also like being part of something that's bigger in a winning culture. Like that's also good for players when they're young and they're drafted. Hi, they don't have all that responsibility on them. So I don't know exactly what that situation is going to look like. Yeah. I have no reservation that he is going to stand out.

“Boring injury, I think AJ debons is going to be a star in this league. We agree.”

I did that trade young thing I read as he opted out. He's going to get a longer deal for slightly less money. Yeah. I read the same thing and we'll see. That's my interpretation. I saw other things that were like, you know, he's he's relishing this opportunity kind of almost to like, he's got something to prove. And and he thinks this might be a good situation to do that. They're going to love him there. I can tell you that. If he plays and he does the

things that trade young can do, he's a very entertaining player, a popular player. And he could put up some numbers. And he's going to have a lot of athletes around him playing off of. So it could be a good situation for him. But to get inside the head of a trade young at the stage of his career in anti-day was good luck. I don't I don't have enough expertise to know. Yeah, but assume Davis gets traded.

Tray young. If I'm his PR agent, I would be doing the whole. Hey, Jalen Branson, small guard, discounted, change teams, NBA title, champ. Why can't that be Tray young? Build the right team around Tray could be the Jalen thing.

Love them. I love them. And I'm excited about Caleb Wilson. And because look, there's a dynamic. Did I say Williams or Wilson? So you said Wilson, I think. I did. Okay. I want to make sure that was Caleb Wilson. Yeah. I'm pretty sure you said Caleb Wilson. Great. Love them because here's a lot of things I watch with him. And he's got that like eyes pop factor. You're like holy health like. And so now

you look at the way the league is set up. And some of the spacing that exists in that league and a guy that's got this kind of just explosive power. Yeah, sign me up for that. Because I think

“anything else that you would want to look at is game. And if you want to, if you want to tighten”

up his handle, if you want to tighten up his shooting, particularly shooting off the dribble, I do think those are things that can be tightened up. It's not like for that. You either have it

now or you don't. That's not the case. Guys add that stuff all the time in the first three,

four years of their career. And then there's a whole nother ceiling for them. Excuse me, as a score. But that, what I'm talking about, that stuff where he explodes off the floor like that. No, that's not something you either have it. You don't. I mean, that is something you either have it. You don't. And he's got it. That's not, you're not adding that later. Not that degree of pop. And that's what he's got off the floor and it blows your way because you're like you're

picturing him in any sort of of open floor situation or even offensive rebounding situations. It gets a step on a guy like that is what big time explosive finishing ability looks like at the NBA level. The other stuff will come. I'm a huge, huge fan of his upside. There's a relentlessness with him that almost guarantees he's going to be a really good NBA player. He just really gives a shit the work ethic that competitiveness he has. Like he just has it.

To me, he's not like a runner jumper. I do think there's like some hoops like Kusa from there. Like

“he seems like he'd be fun to play with. And I think if he was with the right kind of guard point”

guard who could be looking out for him and trying to set him up. He's different because Sean camp had a different body. But when young Sean camp came into the league and you just saw people he was playing against. It was a lot of this. Like people looking up as he's going over them for rebounds and dunks. There's going to be some of that. And then it'll come down to whether he can add a shot, which I'm not going to bed against anybody who's super competitive

to eventually be able to add an 18 footer, right? Kids 19 when he's 22. He's going to have an 18 footer. I'm not worried about it. And I've watched him shoot enough in game situations where you're like, okay, it's not like you're watching it going, oh man, you know, put a put a disclaimer at the bottom of the screen. Viewer discussion is advised on his release. It's not like that. I mean, I've seen guys with and it looks decent. By the time he gets to the release point,

it looks pretty good. There's a lot to work with there. I would be strongly considering taking, I don't know what the jazz are going to do. Again, because of how many bigs they have, I don't know if they just want the best available player and they don't care if it's another bigger not. But if it is Peterson, it goes to the jazz because they just want that another score that to go on the wing, then I would strongly consider taking Wilson to three. I so Danny all bets are off

because he famously was going to take to rant that one year if the Celtic Scott the first pick

over Odin. And I think he was the only one who's going to do that. I rarely say this. If I was Utah, I would try to flip with Chicago and pick up extra stuff and just take Wilson because he might end up being the best out of these four guys. I don't think there's any way to do. And I don't think you could go wrong with any of them. Maybe Peterson, if last year the red flag is kind of started at up. But if you could move back, still get Caleb Wilson and then pick up like the 15th

from the bulls and other stuff, I would think about that. I think Wilson's going to be awesome. And we need to talk about this. You're the fourth pick in a four player draft basically before the drop off. A little chip on the old shoulder. Oh, you didn't think I was the but you thought I was fourth out of four? Okay. I'm going to show you. And I was like those guys. That's then like a computer guy who got passed over. I hear you. There's probably a lot of drummers that had

you know, a great solo career at some point, but they never got to credit right in being in that

“bed. That could be the case. So I think that is something, you know, that's how this has been”

framed for a while now that it's these four guys and then there's a drop off. I do like some other guys after that. Who's your favorite going? I love my Kail Brown. Oh my God. That's my I have I'm terrible of figuring out guys like him. Make the case. You don't like him. It's my weakness

feels like he could be a five top mom and be a guy. And I always like those guys always scare me.

What do you like? No, man. I just like the fact that he's just he's he's a polished proven score like he could just flat out score. He's got he's got handle either direction. So the notes I wrote down big time thread every time he touched his scores at every level explosive finish or deep range and a lot of potential to grow. He's got good size. He's not like a leap in terms of his size. Good enough size to get his own shot. And I've seen projections anywhere.

I mean, he's anywhere 7 to 10 like most of the ones I've seen. So he's going to go in that range. I think somebody's going to get themselves like a big time NBA scorer down the road wherever he ends up going. He's six three and a half without shoes. He seems like to be the wild guy. They don't play barefoot well true. So put maybe six five and a half let's do that.

“He seems like his range is basically like five to 12, which is pretty. That's what's so funny about”

like once you get to that clippers pick, they don't need a guard, right? They do I would dead on a point card because they have Garland and they just made this trade for them. And everybody's got to walk there and a cuff there. A cuff's the guy I was just going to talk about. He's early got it like is kind of right there in that in that territory. So like and you know he's he's another guy that like you look at and both a cuff and brown, both of those guys like really

flashy scores, they can go get their own and in in some ways kind of similar in that regard. A cuffs I noticed seems to me like one of the biggest just consistent jumps up this board

basically over the last month or so. It's just and to where I have I've seen a lot of them where

he's going to be the fifth pick. Like he might be the next guy outside that top four. I said, you know, and that is the that's the clippers with that pick. So I don't I don't I don't know where if he's going to go that high, but to me he was a guy that during the season you come kind of paying attention. I started to dive in after the season. I started to look more out of after tournament's over. It feels I feel like to me he's like solidifying himself on a daily basis. Like he's

going to be somewhere in there if he's not the first guy taking is one of those first two or three after the top four. He was my my crush guy in college. I really became a fancier to them and so did my buddy house and we watched a lot of him and then he had the run in the tournament. He's just every game he was 26 and 9 25 and 12 28 and 8. Oh yeah. He's a great shooter. He's he's like a pure old school big guy gets the rebound looks for him like it like he's like a real

“point guard. Give me the ball. I want the ball all the time. I'm good on fast breaks. I think”

if you're going to take a guard that high who is clearly a smaller guard who's going to probably be not the not the greatest guy in defense. You better think this guy's a home run. And I think he's that good. Like I like I do think he's rare. He's one of those guys were talking about he that's his style. Yeah. He wanted some of the notes. I just real quick. I wrote down just great change of pace. Like really keeps guys balance explosive first and second dribbles which

is a big deal in the NBA. Like that first one a lot of guys had that first step. He's got one in two that second gear as he gets downhill finishes with both hands really, really well. Like so he can drive either way gets into your body and he's got like creative finishing because he's probably learned to because he's getting he's not 6667 coming out. He's in that 63 range. So he's had to learn how to be more creative with this finishing. He's a lead guard

with outrageous potential. So he would be right there. He might be five like him and Brown. They're going to be right there in that category. And Wagner is the other one that a lot of people have there. And Wagner's a tough one to me because we like we talk about like we do

“doing the comps before. I look at a cuff and he just reminds me a lot of Kyrie. I think I think he's”

more of a point guard than Kyrie was but he's willing to finish with either hand. How he uses the stop and start stuff. How he gets somebody on his hip and carries them sense of the moment. It's all stuff we saw with Kyrie. And same thing like Kyrie was he might be maybe a half-inch bigger than him. But I don't know who Wagner reminds me of. I don't know what the road map is for him. He's so unconventional. I don't think he had a dunk last year. He doesn't finish at the

rim. Everything's like this hurty jerky. You know, and that team was built around just what a unique player he was. But he wasn't a top. I don't even think he was top 100 or top 150 heading into college and had this meteoric rise. But I don't know who you guys planned. One of the things I love about him.

Because I'm always kind of really honed in on evaluating shooting mechanics and release and how that's

going to translate. He's got tremendous extension. There are, believe it or not, a lot of guys make

extend on their finish. And I think to myself, well, it's fine when you're the best player in the court and you're creating a little bit more space than you're going to create at the next level.

“You're just not going to be as consistent because I think if you're not if you're not if you're”

you don't have full extension now, that's going to show it up even more as the windows shrink to

get the shot off. And now that it's you're just never going to be because it's not a front rims.

Wagler has tremendous extension. Like he gets full extension and it's quick. He gets into his motion quick and he's got full extension elbow lock wrist lock at the same time. I look for that kind of thing. That translates like, this is who this guy is. That's not going to change. He doesn't need to work on that. He's already got that. He's coming into league. He can make shots now. And then now he's climbing because people are looking at him as being more than that. Like

he's more than a shot maker. He can do some other things for you as well. He's got, you know, pretty good size as well. Better size than the two guys we were talking about and came through on a big stage. But it's isn't nothing. You know, like I really thought he got an tournament in him and A cuff both were really great. Part of the problem with this is

so when it started to pick five, basically the next four best guys are our point cards.

We're small guards because flimings is the other one from Houston. And as we know with the draft, not everyone needs a point guard. Like first of all, we have a bunch of awesome point guards in the league already. There's four more. It makes me think one of them's not going to make it. And then Burris have you studied Burris at all? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then Burris is the one who is the best two guard available. No question about it. The thing I love about him better than any of these guys. And he had

“too because he was more off-ball than the other three guys. And I think we didn't mention Kingston”

Flimings. He said that the other guy you're talking you said the next three you were talking at A cuff and brown and waggler and flimings. Like those four guys. Those four guys. So this guy Burris is more of like what I love about him. You can run pinned down action for him. He is he comes off downscreens and he's getting his hip turn and swiveling into the catch. And it's gone quicker. So like that is like another element to use a guy like that. He can he can create

off his off his motion because he's such a threat off downscreens out to deep. He doesn't necessarily

need to play with the ball first to get into his shot. I think some of the other guys we talked

about that just more natural for them for that rhythm. They need the rhythm first. He's a guy that you can put off the ball. So maybe his usage is in his high. Maybe he goes to a situation where he can't have high usage because of who they already have. But he could still go get shots up because he doesn't need a lot of time to do it. And he doesn't need a rhythm dribble or a live dribble to do it first. He trim me the best of this group at that kind of stuff.

Getting his hips turn off a downscreen and letting it fly from deep. And he's going to be a really good defender. Now he's a year older because then some of these guys but was a big LLA like he won the high school state title here where he was like the lead guard for that team. But I've said that he's been my favorite guy out of the top four other than Acuff because it was saying a lot of the same reasons I like Castle two years ago because he's on that great Arizona team, right?

They didn't really need a lot of what he so he was just like all right well what do you need for me all right I'll do this this and he just kind of figured out how to fit in hit a couple of victories when they needed him played defense do do like all like the many great stuff which is exactly what Castle did at Yukon and then one castle went to San Antonio like he was able to and I think Burris has that in him. He makes the most sense for the Quippers.

My question is you don't necessarily need to take him at five could you trade back could he flip spots with the Kings? Who everybody thinks they want Acuff? Could you flip spots with them pick up one extra asset and then take Burris at seven? You'd have to I mean listen as we know all these guys were talking about that it's beauty is in the eye or they'd be older because I haven't personally a lot of the different mock drafts I've been studying and looking at haven't

seen them really that high so you'd have to be just one of those things where what you see is like man what he does these particular specific things better than some of the guys we've talked about who like yeah man they got a lot of junk in their game and do a lot of stuff their scores natural scores but we like this specific skill better to take him that I most of the ones mock drafts I've looked at have not seen him as high as five so I don't know where you know

he is. Well what do you do if you're the Quippers though because you have Kauai who's going to be 35 next year you've Garland who's your point guard and if you're taking another point guard you can talk yourself into it and just like look we're going to be along conventional we're going to have these two scoring guards and you know we're not there's going to be some bad stuff

“on defense but that that's why we have Tyloo and a coaching staff I just find hard to believe they're”

going to do that which is why I feel like they're going to trade back and take burrs would be

I've been watching and you you didn't do the Western Conference for playoffs this year right? Did you do you do the Eastern Conference? Yeah you did the Eastern Conference? Yeah you had the Stinky Stinky sweep we had a we had the nicks just treat people like a witship yeah you had them yeah I don't know what happens with Wallace and okay see where you have these you have Shea and now you just gave Max's to chat and you gave

Max to JW and you have Wallace who after the season is very interesting had a little moment of press conference where he was basically like it was interesting when I said something about when Shea was out there in that stretch and Wallace had the ball and you and I talked about this on a pod where it was like did a couple of games during that time? Yeah there's a lot more with Wallace here that we didn't really get to see it then the playoffs happened he's back to 25 minutes of game

and he average 8 points of game this season right it's year three for him. All right well what's he worth because you're talking extension now after your three you can extend a guy and if I'm him I'm like there's more here I could be the lead guard on one of the best defenders in the league

I'm a 30 million dollar year guy and I don't think okay see he's gonna play it pay it

so what about Wallace and the 12 for five? Quippers get Wallace they move back seven spots okay see moves up to five.

“Is that your outside the top four I mean I think is that I mean that's to give me”

to for that pick for okay see yeah how much do you like Wallace I like Wallace a lot but I they have to me and they're system and and the guys that they have he's one of the better on both the defenders in the NBA but any did ramp is game up a little bit when he got more of an opportunity but they've also got you know AJ Mitchell sitting there like so these they're United team too yeah right and he's a guy that's just much more dynamic offensively with what he

can do he hasn't scratched the surface of how good he is going to be so I like him but expendable absolutely and this was the problem along for okay see like we're not even a problem it's a good problem to have they want to title and they had like this perfect system and they had a superstar and then they had a couple like two and three were like really good players and then he had a bunch of role players on all the other change well a lot of nice really deep you're

not going to be able to keep all those guys you're just not going to be able to and you're not

“going to need to because of who's at the top you can find guys I think they can replicate with”

those guys do maybe have a little bit more scoring punch to them you know even look at what they went out and found in McCain like that move to pick him up and what the offensive punchy game where he's playing heavier minutes than some of the guys were talking about that were staples for this team for two years and they picked them up and it's season come on off in ACL injury because they they identify better than just about any organization so if they looked at

that and said you know what we're not we think that we can move up and get the guy that we desperately need we can replace a case in Wallace and then who knows at 12 and you can start getting down there it's a crap shoot anyway to to go get the exact guy that they want whoever that player may be no I don't I don't necessarily think that is but I again I don't know like do they view any of those guys outside the top four as that I don't know because I was it's almost like a math problem

like at some point Wallace on a rookie contract is perfect but now with Wallace with a contract

“looming as you have to pay him basically as like not even better than a fourth guy because he's”

he's probably worth like 25 to 30 on the open market with with what his ceiling is they can't pay that and the whole point of having all of these picks and taking swings and grabbing McCain and locking down AJ and Mitchell to this great contract is that you have to

build this like cheap apparatus around your three guys you can't you can't pay while it's 30 million

so really the time right now committed to the top three so to like that right you can I mean it's so you got you have to use him and move up and maybe even then if you have five now maybe it's easier to try to even move up into that top four but it was one I was thinking because if you know I've clippered season tickets I want them to at least be decent next year before aspiration annihilates them but if they got case on Wallace and then the twelfth pick I feel like

they'd be better off but if they don't get into that you know get into that situation we're going to move that pick or whatever which I thumbs up there's no question they're going to listen to all that because they're not in top four and and we think there is a difference there that's um seems to be you know they see the acosta guy like if that were the guy and they just looked at him like he's better than everything else and we think you know I'm taking the best

available player I don't care that we have garland and we've got garland but I don't care because

this guy ultimately is going to be a guy that can flat out play at the NBA level and you can play

quickly at that level that maybe they hold it and they take that just to take the best available player but you know they're they're they're like a veteran team so it's like you know you don't know

why that's why acosta makes sense to me because you're quite a 35 and you're going to play

“him in garland that I'm not winning the title with that as much as I like acosta or you have to”

trade garland at that point it just opens up these different doors state what did you did you study the center yet Mar yeah I was just going to ask you about him because we didn't talk about any bigs really like real centers we talked about some bigger guys but like he's different there's a thing man I watch him it's so hard for me because even like I go back to a guy like eating and they're like a little bit different and I looked at Zach eating and I was like

I don't as dominant as he wasn't cause I don't know how he's going to change into the floor at the NBA level like it's a big deal like he's lumbering up the floor now it's a turnover now you got to get back and run and like is he going to be too methodical to do anything offensive he's he answered this question for us like leaned up he worked with their player performance team and like he even has running stride improved everything who so it's like no this is fine

he can keep up with this and actually do a lot of damage offensively kind of stays in a limited lane but he's an effective NBA player so now I look at Martyr different body types and a little bit different Martyrs like more agile certainly the thing I like about him I was like watching like he's got a really really good feel for like passing the table handoff game and he could find guys from the elbows he's he's just really clever with his passing he's thinking one step ahead

it's another dimension to your team he's a really good group of chapter to guys 73 so he's going to protect the rim and he moves well you know guys like that there's going to be limitations there offensive you know unless he becomes a really good 3-point shooter and then there's more opportunity for you there and even like a guy like clinging is trying to do that in Portland like he's

taking more threes because you know say if I don't I'll never ever get anything other than a

rim run lawball offensive rebound so I better learn how to do it can Martyr do that can he extend out there he needs to I'm sure that's probably all he's doing this summer and trying to extend that range I just like his feel for the game is his IQ is touching his finesse with his passing and he has translates to a lot of different systems you can play him he's going to help make other guys better um particularly if you learn how to shoot the basketball he just has more upside

I love the passing too I like him in general and at one point I was convinced he had to go in the top 10 because he's somebody I could just see in a playoff series then I did some more research the minutes really scare me with him so when he went to UCLA which everybody agrees didn't go

awesome he played basically 10 minutes a game and 13 minutes a game for them in the first two years

then he went to Michigan put 23-point four minutes a game last year if I'm taking if I'm using the eighth pick in the draft like to me that that means like oh I can see he's going to be a big off the bench like ED played big minutes had points rebounds and was approving like you can actually put now he got hurt a Memphis but I just think top 10's too high for him the more I look at it and maybe okay see you can get him

a 12 and that's a great pick for them but this draft is so good and if I have a chance to get somebody like buries at eight or nine or Kingston Fleming so I can't take a guy who played 23 minutes

“a game last year I just can't no it's a fair point and I think just in general you're just”

looking at him and you're going when there's other guys that I think you're just looking at offensive upside you know three or four years from now is so much greater it can be hard to justify that unless you have glaring hole like a glaring need like we drew is so undersized up front we don't like the bigs that we have if it's so glaring and he's available he's in that tennis range somewhere in there okay see that's that's like you perfect you take a fly around

him yeah but like I don't think Golden State can take a metal 11 because they need athleticism they need they need young guys they need pop they need somebody that can kind of tilt their team a little bit we don't know what they're gonna do this summer with they have you know I still think LeBron's going there like who knows who knows what they're capable of this summer but like this is a luxury pick I don't think this is somebody you can take in the top 10

with with this many good players and we we didn't really talk about flimings I can't decide on him like what the ceiling is for him because he's not that huge he's with like 61 he's fast to shit he's really competitive and he's a good defender but we've lost some bounce we've also seen those guys like people really regret taking those guys like seven six eight these six one guys that unless unless you have a chance to be one of the eight best point cards in the league

it's just not worth the pick I'd rather have somebody that I know can play big minutes

“yeah I think that that look he's I've seen him in the top 10 like the bottom two I closer to 10”

I've seen him on a lot of draft boards like he's in that area some of the other guys I think are

a little bit different category he's an interesting one because you started getting to that pick

and like he's the next most talented guy on the board so I'm curious to see like how that ends up I do like kind of like athletically the way he competes like you're going okay that translates like he's going to be able to hold his own and hang athletically it won't be a problem for him he's right there yeah I agree with those other guys Atlanta at eight I actually think point card makes perfect sense for me from the Sacramento desperate it needs one at seven

Brooklyn needs at anything and then Dallas at nine is a fun one because it seems like Kyrie's going to be back to have flag they have a bunch of like expensive really polished swings right they're going to have lively back to have gaffered

and everybody has burys going there to them at nine which makes the ton of sense to me

“but it's when we get to like 10/11 that range I think the draft gets burys going there to me”

would be an ideal pick for him it fits a need they need guys that can shoot the ball off of guys they have now that can absolutely collapse a defensive break them down as primaries to have a guy that you can plug in just going to get clean looks and shoot him at a high rate that makes a lot of sense have you have you done Steinbach work yet did you Steinbach big big rebounder picking roll guy like classic in the right spot yeah I

got to wrote down for him very strong in the open core dudes sort of bounce off and runs well athletic very very tough yeah he's a guy he's a guy that just kind of stood out just because of

he was just like so physical and so strong the way he plays the open floor of dudes

sort of he's just making space organically as he moves up the floor yeah it's impressed particularly just his competitive toughness he seems I'm not 100% sold on him because I do I just can't get

“the spurs okay see and spurs next out of my brain I'm like where are you played in those series”

but he feels like a perfect Charlotte pick for 14 cafe in a best and form with a nine cube of one capsule machiner von Chiebel in jeder cube of capsule steckspits and cafe out special animals for espresso cafe creamer or cafe grande off-knopfdruck the new cube of one überzeugt with premium design compact bar cruiser and Kleinem Einstich's price up now and 20 euro thank innovative press blue technology would

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“entdecke jetzt viele weitere Angebote in deiner Aldi Nordfiliale”

und weiter geht's einfach lauschen und genießen Aldi good just fiale all right we got to play quickly um i sent you listed all the favorites for the 20 27 title and uh just i and it's a good time to think about this because we're heading in a trade season the draft and fridge see right now so just quickly spurs are the favorites right now in fando plus 250 um and their big question is the kelvin expiring

and then they have 20 and 35 40 42 so they have stuff to move around and do stuff you were there you were in the house for these games um they have foxes extension hasn't even kicked in yet you have a bunch of spurs fans like let's get this guy the fuck out of there it's still in harbour time what do you do what do you do with fox stuff because his numbers gonna be big um i'm not this and i don't overreacted extend obviously a lot of people do particularly spurs fans right now

the way they're feeling about the series he had um it's a big moment specifically but the guy can still play um and he's gonna be getting a big number he still does um add a dimension with his speed he's a high caliber and be a guard that had a terrible finish to his season i don't know that that's gonna carry over he wasn't 100% healthy he'll get healthy over the summer um nobody was really feeling this way about him most of the season so it's a terrible way

for him to end he's going to be part of the mix here so but now the question is going to be this and i i people that were watching the finals heard me repeatedly particularly in the last game how are you going five six possessions in a row and Dylan Harper is off the ball kind of hanging out when he was by far to me the most comfortable player on the spurs in that game and and just in general looks that way all the time but think about the stakes in that game he you cannot keep this

dude out of the paint with one defender just can't do it he's shooting streaky it's it'll get there

is it time you go that's our starters we're not gonna start all three of these guys is fox at that number something it's going to be smart to bring him off the bench and be more of like a second unit guy to go get his offense rather than continue to start him and bring Dylan Harper and even though a lot of nights now your plan of starters minutes doesn't make a lot of sense

so I don't know what exactly the solution is going to be clearly this is Harper and castle going

forward particularly the sooner that Harper becomes a more reliable shooter because castle got better as a yearman on he was over 40% after the all starbreak as well as wheelhouse and he can be very streaky from there and Harper can too that's tough and if you want fox a little bit more a bit more consistent with his mid range pull up even with his three point shot most of the time certainly not there late for him but I don't know what the answer is I just know this is Harper and

castle is it next year that you're after when ever is it going to be I don't think fox is going anywhere at that number coming off of that series so you better kind of wrap your head around that as a spurs fan could you feel it being that close in court side could you feel fox starting

away very confidence west yeah I did I think it was it was more than just whatever he was

“going through physically there's no question it's it got here's the thing I'll say about the”

year in fox I've I don't think I've ever seen him miss as many makeable looks for him style like this dude was getting draped because he couldn't separate because he was that injured he was getting to his pull up he was getting the three points he that's little spins that he likes to take he he was getting to that little quick pull up when he when he said when he gets like a ball screen like at 22 feet instead of 30 he comes off and he's just stops on the diamond 18 feet

I mean his release was clean most of the time and so I that told me all I need to know like it's it's definitely in here he's feeling something now string together with like bad performances now you start to overthink it I got a lot of respect for the guys unbelievably smart he's a good teammate like we interviewed him a lot during the series guys just got a lot to say that's meaningful as a leader he had a terrible series man and he had some moments that were very difficult for

spurs fans to swallow I get it you you don't just put this guy out of the curb with the recycling can't like you just you can't do it but do you feel like a I don't know it's a small piece medium piece or big piece of this is you have this fucking prodigy behind you who deep down you probably know even though he barely knows what he's doing is probably better than you a point guard and you have that piece too or it's every time this guy comes in he's swinging the

game and swinging the energy of it getting where he wants to go and he's not scared and you know the fact that he played 31 minutes a game in that series and Fox played 36 that might have been the difference in the series if you left if you win that I don't know again won Miss Johnson

“admitted because they didn't remember that was mostly Fox in the fourth quarter harpered and playing”

much in that quarter and then he said basically and he based on Miss Johnson noted and he said that was some mistake man you know looking at he's a young coach he's a lot of make mistakes I like the fact that he kind of answered it that honestly yeah I'd probably need to look at that I didn't handle

that well and then it was never going to he said I was just you're probably not going to happen again

going forward and what he ended up doing is playing a both together a lot in the fourth quarter but the one the game five was kind of where I didn't couldn't understand I said it I don't know how many positions in a row probably from that broadcast how is Dylan Harper right now off the ball right as you start your why is he not the initiator of this dude why is Castle bringing the ball up there's no well he didn't Fox was doing it yeah because Castle Castle does find himself

repeatedly like and felt terrible I thought he looked absolutely exhausted in that game he had a terrible shooting night himself didn't really impact the game offensively at all which is rare for Castle because I love him but it got to the points okay he looks gasped he don't have it tonight he's expanded so much energy gardening fronts and maybe we got to go with Fox and Harper okay cool if you want to do that what Harper needs to be the initiator because they hadn't figured out a way to

“keep the sky to the lane and they just couldn't do it and whatever it is what it is here's the thing”

you're going to have these three guards next year and you I don't know exactly what the plan is going to be because like you said Fox is a big number and kicks in Harper is on a rookie deal palatable but it's obvious to everybody what this guy's going to be he's going to be one of the major forces at that position in the league soon like if not next year the year after so how do you handle that from a playing a standpoint and a like a fit standpoint and who's on the court at

same time with Wemby as well so it's a tough decision and glad I don't have to make it Harper is

get rid of it and you got to still play trust me in Wemby will probably have a little say into this too

I mean Harper was I would take him over everybody in this draft and I think this draft is better than last year's draft but to me he's like I think he has changed to be one of the best guards of the last 30 years like I really do I don't mean I'm just kidding how I'm afraid he was was nuts yeah it's a big statement and I like him so much I think I probably would agree with you but

“that's that's what I know now so let me ask you so like going back to before last year's draft”

did you feel that way about him then or are we so everybody so over shattered by Cooper flag is like we knew that was in a pick or are you saying like kind of like what you know now about Dylan Harper and then especially the way he grew late in the year that you go okay kind of know now like what this dude ceiling is and we might actually be understanding him that's what I'm saying yeah because last year in the draft the Rutgers season was so weird I had no way to make it that

it's like all right this team's going to have two of the top five picks then couldn't make the tournament like what what happened then you watch the clips and but and we talked about him a few times when you came on my part during the year but I saw in the preseason it was like oh my god it's going out this guy and then every time he jumped out of the TV and he's got the thing that surprised me

“is this in this in this particular stage and as much as I already kind of believed right there in”

front of my eyes when I'm what I was watching a guy with the stakes that high with that much pressure and if the game was so physical you know the way it was it was defended on both teams like he didn't speed anything up when he went when most guys that age get any daylight you're going to rush it yeah he missed a layup in game five it wasn't because of that he just missed the shot he didn't quite extend his arm fully you missed a layup that was a big play late in the game

but I'm not you know that wasn't because of stress or pressure he planned too fast he could play as fast as he wanted as explosive as he wanted and then when it came time to control his body and put English on the ball even with a bunch of traffic at the rim he was so far beyond his years and his ability to finish under those circumstances yeah with English and reverse layups when you think there's no way he can extend and get there

and he made it look so routine that I was like man it's amazing to me this guy is arrived at

this level this fast in his rookie year he's like he's making a statement like this is kind of what it's going to look like for a while and was getting big rebounds and I really like

“this big rebounder I thought I loved how him and castle that's what made Brunson series so crazy”

I thought castle and Harper defended him great I loved everything they did and Brunson just kind of solved it as the series went along and figured out how to score him but what he did we and you talked to the fans what Jalen Brunson did a game five against that level of individual defender in front of him and by the way it's not just castle or Harper the cell more than adequate champagne he can do a nice job on him as well and an old by the way yeah there's one

of the past all that when he's back there to draw 45 points on him efficiently and something that important against that caliber defense defense or front of you it's one of the greatest funnest performances of all time and and again he did it very matter faculty and very routine and it was so smart in the way he attacked and the way he kept guys off balance the including Wemby a couple times at the rim we'd start stopping and Wemby would bump him and it couldn't

gather to jump to go get it and Brunson would just extend because he's not jumping very high and he's six two and he's just laying the ball in where he wants and shoot mid-rangeers like it was nothing

it was amazing amazing amazing amazing watch a guy with that kind of composer as a score

against that level defender when he's not blowing by you were going over you in any way yeah that's you know sucks fan friend of mine was like well you mentioned you said Brunson had one of the greatest finals performances like why didn't you mention Janus five years ago and Janus had that 50 point game in the closeout which was a great game the difference with what Brunson did in game foreign game five was the inevitability that you could feel with the scoring like

I was texted Nick Frans I hear comes Brunson he's this is it he's going to score he's going to go and he'd are right now and the spurs by game five I feel like they kind of knew it too and he broke their will in a different way that's like that you know he's obviously not Michael Jordan but there's very few players over the years that got that to that break your will level and I do feel like he fucked with the spurs like it was just over and over again

like it's just worth the level he got to but to do it against that team I thought that I thought

“that was one of the most amazing things I've seen in the finals it's one of the greatest”

finals performances of all time I'm not going to I'm not going to waver from that and it because of again what was in front of him and as as good as it might have looked a lot of people on TV like in terms of the pressure on him with these defenders yeah trust me trust me sitting there watching it to watch guys that big in physical and a game was so physical and there they're quicker than him they're going beat him to spots and they're taller than him and they're stronger

and he just did whatever he wanted to do and it was it was it was it was mind blowing in the moment to be able to call that and to watch like that level of greatness when you look at like the

physical profile of the player and it's all just it's all just strength and balance and footwork

and touch and IQ and then the final component which is really what separates him is what he is processing in the feeling in terms of pressure of the moment it's not what other people are processing he doesn't feel it it actually some ways it actually increases as adrenaline in a good way in those moments and there's been a lot of guys obviously over the course of the history of league that also kind of fault that I category but in this series it stood out so much from

everyone else that he wasn't feeling when everybody else was feeling with this energy and these two buildings and it's like the force of physicality the defenses and he's just like now I'm just kind of kind of do my thing and I know where I'm going to end up at the end of this possession it'll be in a place that I like not to mention he's caring six generations and Nick's fans and 53 years of history and just I got like 35 former players like at every game it was incredible

bit I got a great email from a listener who was saying that it was almost like watching when they would talk about pre-fontane Steve pre-fontane the runner he would hang behind and then he would make his move and everybody knew he was going to make his move and he would just kind of wait he'd let everybody run himself out and like okay now I'm going to do it and then everybody was running against we know that he was doing it and he was still doing it and that's where the

next got with these comebacks like they were I've never seen a team more comfortable

downtown 12 where you never felt like the game was going to get away from them usually when you're down 12 and the third quarter like fuck we give up one more three like this is this game's a rap and the next kind of liked it and they they liked this come from behind thing where you could feel the momentum shift and then you know we we talked about Fox earlier but the spurs not having that settle down guy it just wasn't you know obviously Debbie's not there yet they just

didn't have that one guy like I got this guy as I got this they didn't have it that was my point on top what you just said was just so true about the comfort ability factor for the next and part of that was because they were observing the uncomfortableity factor on the other side in those moments because they didn't have a clear defined identity offensively either individually or collectively and part of it is because there's there's there's guys are growing as players there

“are holes in their games and and and I think and I said a lot about it the other day on on”

on our all city pod and I believe that I think the biggest area of growth for Wendy is going to be answered that going in the next season and how do you answer that you answer that by dominating from 15 to 20 feet yeah that's the area of the floor that he doesn't really yet know how to fully utilize his shooting ability and length and it's an a simple jab step a dirtna vidski type of closing ability from that area the foot's also hard to double team him from that area the

floor he could play one dribbly's at the rim from the top of the key easily with his length but he doesn't really go there and catch the ball he either runs to the rim or he pops back behind the three those are the two things he does he doesn't really screw short rope and they hit them there not to mention such an easy target to hit on that short roll because you can fill it high he can just catch it up here even if there's traffic for the guard just throw it up he'll catch it

and now he's got it 101 give him some room one strong side shooter and now let him practice that jab and get guys off him just a little bit boom make four or five of those jumpers a game coupled swing through and goes and and I think the game will be easier for him because he didn't know where he where to go in those game defining series to find a game where he was 30 30 feet from the basket run in here also fox yeah well I was thought that dunk and spot that's where he has to figure

out like 12 feet to the side pick a side give your bank shot you can swoop into the paint

“the doctor Jay agreed you're a lab threat from the side like that's what he's got to figure out he”

doesn't have a spot yeah and so if I was I think I have a jump hook either I don't know why he

right I gave up when when I would see seven footers coming to the league with some skill and I'm like

how do you not practice like a two dribble to the middle jump hook over either shoulder Al Jefferson because it's damn here on stop the wild Jefferson had it great when it hasn't even his was more almost like a it was like a little full body it was a push right because his shoulders were square to the rim yeah y'all being had a decent little jump hook y'all being was was like

“he he kind of mastered that dunk and not to the extent that you would think yeah guys would and I think”

for for Wendy I think that that's not bad man because you could you know look at some of the distances that cream shot it from like you don't have to get five foot shot he might have a hard time getting guys that deep so okay what if it's an eight nine ten foot shot and it looks smooth and you

practice it enough who's stopping it so I agree look and I think this is what really to me

separated the two teams the Nick's going into game five I said had the most precarious three one lead in the history of team sports because they they've been outscored 70% of the minutes in the series they were they they everything had gone right in these key moments that had to so now here you are there are three one but man it could easily been three one the other way we all know that the difference in this series was how these two teams managed the last five

six minutes of the game burners were kind of looking around like what do we get to do this time down the floor because all their best players have a little bit of a hole in their game too young not a good enough shooter maybe if if your castle Wendy we just talked about doesn't get those spots of the floor that are comfortable for him enough guess what best learned lesson losing that series

“that's that's the best thing that could happen to them for long-term success here in the foreseeable”

future because they're going to remember how that felt and they're going to address that exact situation I 100% agree and yet they're going to look I mean that's one of the all-time squandered so no no no no so many things happen in those five games so many things happen I forgot that that uh when we missed an 18 footer just to win game one that was a pretty open shot you just go through that lane look your spurs fan you're just tortured yourself gone all

something like that even like that shot I said you know like deep even that they ran good actually they're in there's a him and fox fox came off think it was it they knew exactly what they wanted to get high ball screen they knew they knew you're going to have to get some sort of help or what or fox is going to walk into an 18 footer to win the game so they did you knew the big was going to shade which meant it's going right back to Wambi at the over the only

“but the only thing I don't understand is this and Mitchell Robinson they got a lot of credit for”

his contest I don't really think it affected him but why did you why why fall down backwards like you're shooting a shot to win the game right stay on your feet and stay with your extension because he went just just stay with nothing else stay upright to give the ball the best chance to get over the front of the rim your momentum going back to that extent that you can stay upright of course the ball is going to it's good possible to track that to the center of the rim

so that's even that again it's youth it's young it's it's going through it for the first time you

know figure out a way next time in that situation stay on your feet as you do an 18 footer because there's not a person on the planet that's going to really bother you on that contest if you stay upright well he asked us to figure out how to play more than 29 minutes again because I think true it that 10 weeks now he knows what that 10 weeks feels like from start to finish and I just thought there were a couple of those fourth quarters where he was just wobbling around he made the

obviously the huge mental mistake at the end of game two and it's all part of the process he's going to have to figure out how do I ramp up to 30 set of 38 in the playoffs and that's it's game two you know that's that's learned learned they got learned from it they didn't know exactly what they wanted to do castle looks at him and then goes oh oh you're going to bring it up okay I'm out of here and oh you know wait it's been the back that it's just because it was like they weren't completely

in sync because they're so young yeah collectively so we know it's on young teams now we know again this is what we said all year they're too young they've been there it's like a it's a thing it's was scary for like maybe the league is just the fact that okay yeah they lost one series we're like nothing will expedite their learning curve like that nothing no way their season could have ended any of even losing game seven at Oklahoma City it's not coming close to expedite the learning curve

with the way they navigated the ends of those games and knowing how tight they were the margin for air was so slim and next for making all the plays they weren't making any of them there nothing will expedite their growth more than the way that their season ended before we go where do you want Janice to go man probably golden state would be like you know

last you know two years and it was like you'd love to see curry get something of that level here

“at the end of his career that's why I said that that's more like from just my heart standpoint”

because I love watching Steph Curry so much and I want a potential for like deeper playoff runs for him not playing stuff for he's gone in the gamer too or even if they make it out of that what what what what what are they facing above us also more help for him to give Steph Curry a greater chance to have meaningful series and playoff moments at the end of his career I like that I my guess is they end up with Anthony Davis go and stay I don't know why just just in the back of my head

I've landed on I don't want the Celtics to trade Jailum Brown for you on us Curry I felt I felt that way the whole month but the more I I just I can't I can't can't get there I also don't think Miami I don't like to trade for Milwaukee or Miami that trade that everybody's been batting around I actually don't like it for either team if I'm trading on us I don't like what I'm getting back I'm not getting one thing I can point at

and if I'm Miami I've traded all the stuff away so I can have Janice and Bam and I don't know where I'm going with that can I even win one playoff round not to mention the Janice like how many more years that didn't that scares me it's just how many more years can he be elite when he's already been banged up and I mean ask you a question what percentage of the people that love the Celtics right fans would agree with what you just said about

your cool not getting him because you know people like the Jays that only I would say it's probably like 34 Celtic fans would probably rather just not do anything and right back with okay here's the problem and here's the question and I don't the Celtics aren't the value at this you had Jalen get a taste of being the guy and now he has to go back to not being the guy and once you have the taste of being the guy can you go back I think that would be the fear and maybe he just wants

his own team he hasn't said anything the Celtics haven't said anything and I would much rather see those guys keep playing together I don't even like that clay is not on goal in state anymore like even that I wish clay and dream on and stuff had just managed to I know why they didn't and I know it got acrimonious but it's so rare for you to stay together you know you man I hear you like they keep they have it and they've they're winning and they're fun to watch and

like us you guys like us they're watching this and analyzing it and have to do this everything watch these teams like you just like you're a fan of the group the style like whatever and it's like there's more there there's more meat on the bone yeah there like why why are we why are we ending this now I think for for me with the Jalen Brown stuff I think it's a it's a good point I mean and this is kind of how I felt he during the year just for me was probably how I would

process it if I were good enough to be Jalen Brown I went through that would be yeah you know

“what bottom line is man like I got call I got I slid over one seat and that's what it looks like”

but there's a hell of a lot there's a hell of a lot that comes with that seat so like now you okay goes back and it's it's you know obviously I don't think if I did knives more like Tatum's you know the guy Jalen Brown's a great great player but at the same time say okay I listen I rang the bell man I validated what my ceiling is would I believe it is and but it's okay here to be like one A next to Jason Tatum too because Tatum's going to get

ultimately most of that playoff pressure is more on his shoulders than anybody else and so

I do wonder how Jalen Brown feels about all that is it like he's like no no hell with that I don't ever want to go back I want a team of my own I know what I'm capable of doing and nothing's ever going to satisfy him again or is it no I like playing here I like Boston I like Jason Tatum I showed what I could do when given the chance that's good enough for me if they were going to trade him Milwaukee would not be my Jalen trade I would be looking at New Orleans or Atlanta

and trying to you know especially New Orleans that's a trade that makes sense of my head where you get trade Murphy back herb Jones would more contract maybe you get a pick but you know you're recreating basically a different version of what you had with Tatum and Brown but your contracts are a little better and you get more flexibility like I'd be thinking that way I'd to me I don't do they win the title if they get Yana I just I don't know if that's the magic elixir and I don't

know physically where he is you know I would look out and fire Boston like this the way that

look the next jump on it and they played incredible basketball at the end of year and they peaked

“at the right time but you still have to go back and you have to be honest and just look at”

the Eastern Conference like the path was cleared for them with the injury to Tatum and you know

went through year ago Detroit doesn't have enough shooting yet the pistons the calves are a team that's got you know they got issues in the postseason like handling that pressure fillies hurt all the time so if I'm Boston I'm just looking at it like yeah okay the next to me I've seen a lot of lists out there where they put okay so you said Antonio one two again in terms of league expectations to win it Boston three next four I mean to me the next

have every have the have the case to be made that they're going to run it back and win the Eastern Conference I think I think they can absolutely make that case but if I'm Boston I'm not sitting there looking at any teams in the east and going as currently constructed

“without the honest trade like we can't hang with those guys so I think I think that's why the”

comfort zone comes from fans we know what this looks like and it's pretty damn close and now we get Tatum for an entire year coming off the injury rather than just a partial year yeah we'll take our chances of that of course you need to improve your roster they're going to need to improve and we'll see what they're going to give you that they have a 27 million dollar trade exception they have some tradeable smaller pieces like they'll be better than they were last year last year

it was they always called it the quote unquote gap year but in some ways it was they got rid of

how they're putting the mix out of the favorite right now to win the Eastern Conference you should have put in an exercise yeah that I mean it's like put it's amazing I'm looking it's stuff that's written out there they're not doing that I'm like I don't get it man the way that they just played and like that last series was a grinded out they felt how they still found ways we would but prior to that like they were playing damn near perfect basketball

and and ended up winning a championship in five games against the team that won 62 with that kind of young talent like for me the mix should be the team that's placed at the top of the uh pecking order in Eastern Conference going into the season now let's see what these other teams do to address their needs also close that gap for instance the best part in the conference he is it wasn't just oh I had this great postseason he's done this four years in a row now

he's average in twenty nine points a game for four straight playoffs like this is who he is

“they have a team built around him the only thing I'd worry about with the mix is you know”

Pat Riley called the the disease a more everybody's super on self-hush when you're trying to win a title you're doing everything you put your ego aside but now you won um Doc Rivers I had Doc Rivers on the pod the other day and he called it uh trophy tour syndrome you get your trophy for the day you go back home every if you day with all your people and you know then you come back the next year and you're like all right now it's my time and that's usually what happens

with this with champions and now would be the thing I'm going to tell you though I'm going to tell you I don't think that I don't think that's to make up with this group of guys there and I've got to spend a lot of time around them yeah covering them you know all the way through the play all

basically and it's certainly the finals they just look like they're perfectly in sync with where they're

spotted where they're slotted each guy and what they required to be and then perfectly find with this other incredibly special player that they have settling things and we'll contribute to that heavily and in some nights we one guy more than another I don't think they're going to have that particular problem with this group I just don't think that's to make up with this team

“I think you're right but I'm not positive because this is the league we have um they also they're”

not going to be able to pay me I don't think don't basically said he's not going to say it look like it some Mitch is that look like you're going to have to look out with the 24th pick get some sort of big man but small problems all right Tim Legler have fun at the draft I'm

excited for your player just rip him off like boom boom play up a good to see you always a pleasure

thanks for doing the season with us let's let's catch up when the smoke clears from the draft and free agency and we think settled all those trades take play all that stuff can't wait we connect all right thank you man you got it see you bill more foyer more intrigue the drachenkern zurück the absolute match is now on the right your right will be unbezzling what is a winner stream the new stuff house of the dragon up 22nd uni with wow freudig also the one on the one on the second episode series

and the other highlights it's not a two-way game because the guy is on the right side of the world brachan house to the best price now up 2,890 m in the morning geoforty for the e streaming was still not so wow meditian yoga jogging weeks in spandwich right mech and spand my story total steuer we finance amd the steuer at the home yeah I have all the locker over 1000 euros to get to know you have a connection no no like so steuer app wow and that is simply clear

the macht fast all is automatish pleasantly for really me so expand holdy then girl to look Tiefen and spand midwisle steuer all right so we're recording this it is Thursday afternoon

by the time people hear this friday america who looked awesome really truly awesome

“in the first match and now Australia on friday it's a holiday it's gonna be a great day”

Anthony de Bundo came on a couple weeks ago and he reminded us I was skeptical I wasn't that excited about our chances and you reminded us hey we haven't really been healthy in four years like that we have our guys like there there is a path here so you're watching that first half what are you thinking I didn't think it would go that well I don't think even the most optimistic US fan in the world thought that it would go as well as dominant as the first half was they made it look

so easy this is a this is a country that usually struggles with trinidad that usually has had issues beating Panama over the last few years and they're just washing away a pretty good South American team so I mean it was the most exciting I've ever been it was my first ever time going to a

world cup game first time ever seen the US score a golden person like amazing amazing stuff

although one v one stuff a striker just like creating holy shickles and then actually finishing the cake it was unbelievable and even rain it comes in at the end right and the the guy from from a few years ago where he became the polarizing like what did they become the big argument guy did the documentary it was barely covered but even he had a moment and he might have to have that moment in this Australia again because of course we can't have good things for that long

pooseck is who knows when I see the training by myself story that makes me nervous but he was so good in that first half we thought they took them out because they didn't want to get hurt in the

“second half that's what you thought too you seem paraglider would be doing the okay we're down”

three nothing we're we're just taking your guys out yeah but it turned out he was he was maybe a little hurt so what are you thinking or how worried are you I'm definitely worried I mean they're only one or two players that the US can't truly replace and he's one of them and it's funny because I was thinking today okay so if he doesn't start who are the guys that replace him and there is no like for like I mean in a perfect world geo rena can do a lot of the things but geo rena

has barely played soccer for the last three years and he has had some good moments for the US men's national team like that last minute goal but expecting him to just walk in and replace what policic is done is just not realistic then it's like well maybe it's fur-hulter and they play a little more defensive that's going to be divisive maybe it's airinson and they go for the pressing he's not very creative so like all the all of a sudden all the excitement they don't

really need policic them for this specific game they do but for the tournament like this is not

their most important game anymore they need to shift expectations and realize that the later on games

are what we really are playing for here well you know so they're going to probably do the park the bus a little bit right do some counters yeah try to try to do the one nothing final

“try to rope us and that's what their their first win was like that they didn't have the ball”

a ton but when they did have the ball they made stuff happen so that would be the recipe you also of Seattle a great soccer city yes everyone's going to be so fired up it's a holiday there's so many good things about this game and I don't know I've just seen soccer games like this where it's like oh my god we've had the ball oh no what's happening oh my god what did you think of Australia when you watch some mech first game yeah I mean it's a classic example of like does this

say more about Australia or more about Turkey I mean they sat very deep in a very compact block and just made Turkey send in prayer after prayer after prayer cross after cross long range I mean you know Turkey has a superstar player Artigoo Lair who attempted seven shots all of them from long range none of them had a chance they were really frustrating and really effective defensively and in this system in this tournament those kind of teams can be really freaking annoying to play

against but I do think the U.S. what they show it against Paraguay shows me that they have new ideas for how to break down this system but it is so reliant on pool of sick on his ability to retain

the ball and dangerous areas his ability to keep possession in the penalty areas is always been

his best skill and now it's like well without him who's going to be the man that beats the man is a desk they're going to start Tim Waya is just balligan kind of like muscleing his way through our Australians because they're a big bunch in the back too yeah pool sick was so good in that first half I'd almost seem like we're going to get the rare first half sub for their right back like we're going to get this guy out of here is getting torn away um and then he was an out there

in the second half so the two guys that make me nervous on our team desk I just wish there was like slightly more there I don't know I felt like there was a lot

flyer who's who had a goal in their first game and I just I just can imagine that's not going to rear it's ugly head at some point during the cup the fact that we feel like we're like a great defender short right probably yes and I think that's the big question that like Paraguay and maybe even Australia aren't going to test is like Tim Riem for all of his you know now faults as a defender is still very good at picking passes out going forward if you just let him

stand there on the ball and ping passes all over and he had seven long completions in the match against Paraguay which is nuts Australia will probably do a better job of marking Tim Riem they'll probably do a better job of pressing him a little bit better teams will do a better job of that that's where it's like okay Ken Tim Riem hold up when teams start to press more that's

going to be kind of the stress test that like Paraguay just really never gave to the defense

I mean they scored one goal off a set piece but there was at no point any stress on this defense

“so that's the big question mark but you know that's why they're playing a back three it's the”

idea that if you put two really athletic dudes and Richards and Freeman who cover a lot of ground and who are super smart guys next to Riem you kind of cover for him as much as possible right you know and see a hide him and then you know death is a funny guy because I love surging your death I get why he's easy to be like he's always in dangerous areas and he often screws it up but the fact that he's always in dangerous areas means you just cannot

forget about him because he will show up in a big moment and create a chance or dribble past a guy and he really did dribble past players a lot in that game Friday night it just the final touch yeah was rough it was rough yeah well the big question was what we get from Richards and he was

awesome in that game amazing and he passed basically he passed all the injury concerns that we had

heading into the cup right to pool sick where it was because I did you see that that stat like he

“completed he complete 83 of a three pass game yeah the soccer defender perfect game we never”

see that very often but he also he's such a badass the way he cares himself it's really funny he cares himself like he's like a ravens linebacker or something and he did have a header on a set piece two that came close scoring right I mean he is such a I mean like we talk about you know the classic example of like what does it look like when the Americans are finally developing bigger and better talent you know like having a center back who starts every week on

a good Premier League team just whole home goes about his business nothing flashy like that those kind of players are what it's not about having all the superstars and Europe it's about having more of Chris Richards right like three more Chris Richards across the line and that's you know that's the perfect example well it's almost like when like preparing for the NBA draft right now doing my whole process and over and over again you come to the same conclusion like four days before

where you're like you know it's really nice like swing men who can defend in hit threes yeah it's just OG and it can't really go wrong with that so like whereas Johnson now at the Michigan guy and he's like oh my Michael 15 fourth thing like wherever he goes somebody's gonna be super happy with him because that's just the kind of guy that plays and it's the same fucking side they're these certain guys with that said Jedi's probably he's another one that when you in person

really feels like the atypical America and just like fucking freak athlete flying he's everywhere he's like I mean like I know the running joke is like a lot of these guys were not developed in the U.S. balligan Robbins yeah tellman you know like a lot of these guys were not quote unquote traditional homegrown players and we could do a whole podcast on that but like Jedi in the Premier League is consistently one of the most active aggressive all over the

place defenders on that left wing yeah I remember they played Liverpool like two years ago and he completely shut down like a prime most solid and I was like what am I watching like this right this is crazy and then he also had tennisists that year I mean he he is he's a special player

“and I think he'll be important because inevitably they're gonna need more wide production”

if they don't have bullets like in the middle so Robinson and Desk become even more important and then they were in the first match and then the striker might be the most talented striker we've ever had and I like Clint MC I think was really reliable good I loved how tough he was and he I thought was really important just for where U.S. soccer was and where it was trying to go but this guy's absolutely this is different it's different it's amazing and you know the one thing

with him has always been and I remember you know when I first joined the ringer bill we we did

uh the Copa America remember two summers ago we were disaster yeah and balligan only played like half the minutes because he got hurt and even you texting our crew chat like watch how he's moving it's it's so different from how the other guys are moving around the pitch and that's how you feel when you watch him and no matter what his finishing has always been he's always had the shots and the analytics nerds and the scouts will always say if you get the shots we'll worry about

carrying that into into the U.S. and two goals I think he had four shots in the first game so just

“amazing well like you I've all I've been doing is watching World Cup I love it I love gambling on it”

I just love that there was that one game the other night that was on it like midnight pacific time that was amazing it was a Jordan Austria it was a really good game though for how late and then it was but you know and you're just watching all these different guys and the ones that jump out over and over again are like the the left or right back that's just fucking flying up and down

constantly and never gets tired or like you know the forward who he's just kind of hanging around

and then all of a sudden he's got that stop start boom and that's a bowigan has like he's kind of lurking looking boom he's he's off but then and then on top everything else you get to watch what messy did the other night it's like oh yeah that's and that's the other version of the sport where he's just let me take a bit of everybody I mean that was one of the great random sports experiences I certainly wasn't expecting that to be like the highlight of the summer but it was

“even up there with the final games that was unbelievable you try to run messy that's the hat trick yeah”

just yeah just he's watching his son yeah he played my daughter whenever you know my daughter as always was always a striker and we always had this joke called it was called Rufus goes because our dog Rufus had died 10 years ago but if you put food on the encounter and if you left it for

two seconds he would just kind of sneak over and grab it and go and so we always talked the same

with soccer like the best strikers like there are best forwards best anything there always in the position it just kind of jump on the counter and grab a goal and that second goal he had was my favorite one of the three because he's just kind of over there he's reading oh this might be a rebound bounce and he's already moving and where the bounce is and nobody's even reacting it and he's just putting it in it's like the easiest go ahead but he's just a second and a half

ahead or wherever and else is mentally and that's despite the fact that he just was it's so funny

“when they don't have the ball right when you watch him and you see him in the corner of the screen”

and he's just walking around like it's a Sunday mens League like he's just trying to get his steps in and then the minute he gets the ball calculating everything he makes two little runs one little dart one dribble one shot and you're like oh shit I mean Argentina in the first 28 minutes of that match did not have a touch in the penalty area of Algeria but they were out one no because Messi's like I don't need to go in the penalty area I'll score from 25 yards out screw that well

father of that and on top of it like the I mean the thing that makes the guys truly truly great no matter what's for you talking about is like it's performance put also like performance let's see artistry of it it's all these people in Kansas City it's my homes in the luxury sweet and they're out there to see him right and that's like almost drives him up to make him greater whereas like poor Ronaldo he's out there and you you call that on the pod we did before the cup started but it's like

yeah this is Aaron Rogers Pittsburgh kind of territory potentially and it was worse than that because he he cost them the game I mean he he we had I felt like opportunities that normal people would make at this level and he just didn't cash in on any of them it's so funny because you a lot of the people that are trying to defend Ronaldo are saying well it's not just his fault right the performance was bad all around and like their wingers have problems Portugal has issues but it's like what you

said the best strikers always find ways to get shots to get space to make those little runs

those little movements where they can get separation and get shots off that's just always been true and that wasn't the case for Ronaldo yesterday against Congo they but he was never able to separate he's not running in behind he's not coming short he's not linking the play it's like hopefully the cross finds his head because they had a lot of the ball right but I mean you know a couple of days ago when when Bobby scores twice and Holland scores twice and Messi scores three times all in one day

and then like you said we get the the Austria Jordan midnight I mean it's one of the greatest days for stars in the history of the world cup right we get where games every day and then pretty soon it's going to be six games a day for a few days and you didn't even mention the England game Kane was incredible in that game dude yeah these 40 hard fucking dart passes I got to let that one was CR we were enjoying it and then in the corner kicks for England I mean I know that was

the guy was on arsenal that was one of their calling cards but nothing nothing really flowed to my boat like just a great corner kick right in the right in the right in the right in the right. I mean they ran up like a broken boom and the guys are wide open over and over again somehow and it's the most underrated part of this but there's no what what else is like this it's almost like maybe special teams in football or Bella check was trying to get like advantage of a special teams and it's

to stain that it's like oh yeah and you should be good at special teams and he's like no actually we're

and these corner kicks free kicks you see it over and over again the world cup like the put in the ball in the box in the right areas and doing the little box and out the keeper yeah it was John stones literally set up if you go watch the replay that called John stones is setting what would what would be called a moving screen right where the MBA just so he can get Kane free a little bit and only needs as a couple yards one header to one it's so funny because I

watched with the fuzz cask guys but then foster and they're they're awesome and getting into the psyche of the English fan I mean you were with CR so yeah how was our feeling before the match confident literally little worried about the back three but they have a lot of firepower they do they really do they have all kinds of ways that they can create goals and they're really

“fun to watch I think if you're an England fan it's it's weird to watch this team that can”

be kind of explosive but they feel a little bit explosive right so with the fuzz cask guys none of them were that confident I I talked to a random England fan outside of sofi he was like yeah you know I think we can make the semis I'm like you don't think you can win he goes no like English fans I think more than and maybe any other fan base and maybe because they've been you know so close yet so far they just don't have the same level of of irrational optimism about their team so

a lot of nervous energy and then Kane misses the penalty and they're all like oh shit here we go again

like this is how it's gonna go the rarely seen callback they've nailed the gokeeper never happens

he was he was about a half of a toe off the line nothing you can't get away with anything anymore but yeah and then in the second half they went for it I mean England fans have been crying out for this they have so much talent and they they play scared under gy herself kid it's all like defend the lead defend the lead defend the lead and Tukle went in the half time and said effort like we're going for this

“what do we have to lose and they came out and played an incredible second half so I think England has”

vaulted themselves into the favorites conversation if they weren't already there and I think you know them Spain and France are still a tier above but maybe maybe USA should be in that second tier I don't know what thing they did England that I loved I loved the hockey line change for the forwards is one of my favorites you can't do it if it's like a Premier League team probably but if it's the world cup and you have a deep roster and a bunch of awesome guys it's just kind of like hey we're

going you guys go all out 20 last 20 minutes of the game and they were able to get one but that was fun who was the best team what's weird about the world cup is like paragliding might actually be good we just got to go early on them right and their whole strategy is like you know they wanted to be zero zero after 70 minutes and and also they're here also and it's two nothing and like their games blown up I don't know if they're good or not so we we've only seen you know 90 minutes of each of

these things but who really jumped out to you France for the last half hour put together a they showed a ceiling that I don't think any team has and you know they made some tactical changes

the first half was embarrassing they were terrible they they Michael Lisa who is one of the best

players in the world was just kind of standing out on the wing all alone like hey hey guys I'm over here and then the coach was like all right let's move you centrally in the second half let's get you involved because you are best passer and then the whole game changed I mean he's dribbling by past guys he makes the past a keelian about pay for the first goal he just changes the game and it's like well you know France you could do this from the first minute you could play like this all the time but

they shop is like we like to defend we don't like to press well the half time was funny terry on red that at half time was fucking so and it's really interesting these half time shows with the would you know they just gravitate toward just famous guys from different countries and it's great they're so bitter if it's the same cycle well he almost could talk that he's got a lot of a lot of some Mike kill loss yeah yeah I don't I almost like I don't usually like to watch but I like

kind of feel like I have to watch because I never know when's a lot of times he's going to start

“throwing haymakers at loss it's been an interesting tournament I think if you watch the body language”

and I bet on these shows like Zlatan is like you know lot less is here Zlatan's like this and it's almost like he's turning his back out of him it's really nuts really it's like it seems like he despises him who knows and then Landon makes the comment right about how he felt France was was quote arrogant in the first half which you know I thought there were tactical issues more than then they're effort and then Lala tried to back him up and repeat it and Zlatan has this

incredible moment where he's just like and by the way it's not arrogance it's confidence it's confidence and and I'm just like what is going on these guys it's been comfortable but it's also electric at the same time because Zlatan does not give a shit he doesn't care at all yes usually the studio show should feel like people were invited at a dinner to sit at the same table together because you knew the conversation would be good the Fox studio shows they feel like

and Teeves Zlatan's over there and then then there's just like no chemistry at all at the table

“because they've never ever hung out the so I had the plus one in that France game with the”

underdog yeah I forget I'll do some ago yes and then they got it they got the goal and then and Bob Bay if I can like I'm not later killed it but the woke up there was the day where what was it four draws in a row who was like yes a hundred thousand bucks if you bet a hundred dollars on the on the parlay the twenty twenty six redrawables World Cup edition yeah unbelievable yeah that was fun okay not all draws are created equal I mean Cape Verde Drawing Spain

that was so I was like the second half of that game the guy was like I wasn't taking over the

goal just blocking shit he was doing a VSP he's up to seven and a half million Instagram followers

yeah that was after he had fifty thousand before kickoff he's forty years old and then apparently the the department the secretary of state like they arranged for his mother to get a visa so she can make the trip for the next game so she gets to see him live and my the world cup is

“is a really cool really cool thing because these random pop-up stories just come out of nowhere”

and all of a sudden we're like enthralled by it well the number one thing that happened for people in my life was Scotland taking over Boston in the best possible way and it was just a week-long love fest everybody love them they were just drinking and walking around and having a great time basically drinking all the beer out of Boston and it went so well that um they announced there's gonna be some sort of partnership between Glasgow and Boston the Boston Bear announced

today like we're gonna actually try to figure out some sort of thing it was really amazing because

Boston's pretty Irish you know but that was pretty Irish yeah I was gonna say I didn't know how the Scotts were in a garage but the Scotts were like hey we love drinking too and then and from that moment it was on and they really took over the city so that that was really fun all right so tournament we're doing this it's Thursday there's two games left today France is now plus four ten on Fandel as the favorite Spain's five to one

England's six to one Argentina's eight to one Portugal's plus nine fifty I'll book that bet myself Brazil 11 and one I didn't think they look great either no and then it kind of goes

“down you were you know there's a couple of those middle teams like Morocco I think U.S. is down”

in that U.S. is down to forty to one that maybe there's more there than what we saw in the first game but that that top top four feels like before right port of France Spain England Argentina yep that would be much more so if you had to cram one other team into that four who to be Germany okay Germany's way down there they're fourteen one would do the majority so that we didn't learn a ton about Germany when they played Kyrus Al right Germany traditionally is a flat track

bully they like to pummel the teams that are a little bit lesser and they are built to do that the reason Germany's odds are so low is that if they win their group and France wins their group they will play each other on the on the fourth of July in Filly in the round of 16 so we have this clash of two what I think are top five teams and I would put Brazil in Portugal in the kind of figuring it out phase potentially playing each other as early as the round of 16 France could

then also play semi finals against Spain so like Germany's path will be very very difficult and I'm not really sure if their defense is good enough we have that possible what's finished second instead of first situation it is it is that's hard to engineer yeah because then you don't really know where you're going to end up in the bracket and things get a little bit weirder and like you know France is going to play Norway on the final day so would they tank it like I

can't I can't imagine that like I don't think they're thinking that far ahead but it would probably be wise too if you were Germany like we will avoid France thank you very much but that would be a fascinating matchup I just don't know if Germany's defense is good enough it's been their problem for multiple cycles it's why they haven't made it out of the group stage the last two world

cops but they have an incredible manager they have an incredible attacking group they could

score on anybody they're going to be in the mix yeah because US is in this situation where if they finished first yep they play the runner-up from BEF IRJ I don't even know what those teams are but they finished in third place team right yeah if they finished second they play the runner-up of group G which is Belgium Egypt Iran and New Zealand I mean that sounds great exactly I mean I will first obviously but that but even finishing second that sounds like an ideal

situation so if they come in second though here's where it gets trickier you're out of 32 game is probably easier and then the round of 16 it's probably Argentina oh god so we would prefer to avoid them if they get first maybe a little top around a 32 because you could the third place teams mean

cracks in their first game against Iran so Ergens Egypt rather so you're like well now we're talking

like you get Belgium on home soil revenge for 2014 yeah just wanted to ask you revenge game the Tim Howard we walk it through that door game and you beat them like I mean I like if you put

“betting odds up right now I don't think they would be huge underdogs at all I think they'd be close to”

a toss up with Belgium so if you knew Policick was 100% healthy right now and he's obviously not but if he was if we were just healthy right now like what what's the ceiling for you with how excited you would be to like final four final eight level run for this team just off that one game it's it's literally how far can we go until we have to play France in England or yeah Argentina like you that that's it it's quite frankly a matter of like okay there are levels to this game

and the U.S. is going to need some lock to beat one of those teams and I don't know if I trust the defense and the goalie enough for that kind of challenge right that's where a Paraguay doesn't really test you so we're going to have to find out but yeah like if they're in the round of 16 against Belgium and they win why not and then maybe there's an upset and instead of playing Spain in the quarters you're playing Uruguay or Colombia then it's like we'll take

“our chances there so I think it comes down to the draw it's too early to say but in Georgetown”

performance alone it would be hard to not say the U.S. isn't playing in sort of that back end of the top 10 range because the Dutch look just okay Belgium's looked just okay like none of those teams are jumping out great not at all on Fandel USA to make last 16 minus 220 quarter that did you bet with us last week well that was the minus 130 right yeah so that's minus one minus 220 I didn't I didn't I didn't I didn't want to have any money on

U.S. I just want to enjoy it I didn't feel like I need that but I might actually go in on

on that if if they finish first in the group that game quarter finals is plus 180 and

semis is plus 550 which is I mean think about these to be 12 to 1 betting I'll just say and we're roughly 37% to make the final eight of the roll cup so we're doing off do you know off of top

“your head where the last 16 and the quarter finals games would even be I guess we would know”

because the group set but is there is there a way to have any idea? Yeah so if they win the group their first knockout game will be in Santa Clara that that would be the first game and then once they won that they would play Seattle July 6 now we're going once they win that but we're very like okay you're doing the J. Lambrancen when they win the first round of 32 game they would go back to Seattle on July 6 for their out of 16 game if now we'll go in if they won that

they would be in the quarter finals July 10 back it's so fine. So July 6 Seattle normally an absolute dead time of the year for sports where all the NBA free agents have signed Wimbledon is still we're we're getting near the end or yeah we're almost at the end with Wimbledon and it's a weekend we're right at the point where we're we're wondering where all the really fun tennis players went that's around July 6 yeah man which we had like two more fun tennis

players like Serena and Venus Williams and we talked about that the last time you were on and they were playing doubles we're going to see Serena at the U.S. Open I wish I wish I was coming over it if you come back I actually would my wife would want to go to that we love we're a big Serena house so I got together with Shrager this was before you were born but the the two great moments of nice to love tennis but back and road the open and corners of the open were the

two runs where I felt like the crowd just kind of grabbed them and grabbed them by the neck and pulled them through some of the points in the sets and I this arena thing would be this said the crowd would be the imagine playing against her in the U.S. Open like like the you would have to be one of the best five players in the world like locked in I don't think anyone else would be able to be there so I had the the luck the absolute all-time lockbox of my friends and I decided

one year we're going to go in on Friday night tickets on ash before the draw before Serena said this is my we bought those tickets and ended up being Serena's last match oh wow you got to go to see her play Isla and like that crowd was the coolest tennis crowd I've ever been a part of even when you know when she came back and she won the one set and it was like holy shit

she's going to win again that she loses the third set and it's kind of sad but like the whole crowd

the the euphoria of that night was one of the most special nights I've ever had as a tennis fan so the fact that we're going to do it again like four what is it four years later it's the only thing

if it's the old lion trying to hold on it's just understood the crowd just gets to root for them

“and cheer when you double-faulted and of all that shit comes into play otherwise otherwise no”

well the USA thing will be amazing and then you were in New York today for the parade

just sort of yeah but everything was starting right just the entire city I made the mistake of not thinking ahead I was I want to go to New York I'm going to watch England with the Files cast guys I have a couple friends I wanted to see when I was in New York so I got together with them last night and then this morning once I got to the office yesterday people were talking about the parade I'm like oh where's the parade they're like oh it's coming right down this

street I'm like you gotta be kidding me yeah this is going to be an absolute madhouse tomorrow morning

“so I managed to get in and out I saw parts of it and I was very happy to kind of escape”

what was the madhouse on a scale one to ten like a nine like I said it's not my team so nowhere the Eagles I guess when they won but I compared to that in the sense that when the

Eagles first won I was in Syracuse at the time and I was the only one that had a car of my

freshman friends from Philly so I was like okay I'll drive home we drove home at two in the morning we get there at six thirty seven o'clock people are already drinking my nine o'clock you can tell people are already drunk and it's just a huge party for for something that had had been so much time in the waiting so I'm so happy for all of my next friends and now I'm back to just like in the next again God they had their moment happy for him was rooting for him it's over it's one of

only like maybe ten excuses to just be hammered at ten in the morning yes it's very fresh and New York it's like the biggest tournament yeah and the next football tailgate it's a great all right so give us your USA predictions before we go I am predicting okay god no go Australia for this specific game yeah just give us what give us the give us your updated predictions okay U.S. is going to make the quarter finals and lose to Spain that is my official prediction they

are going to win their first two knockout games get to that quarter final and then you know maybe

water finds its level and they were like okay yeah there's there's a gap here like their midfield gets a little exposed their defense trying to watch Jedi against Lameenium all would be really fun

“but I think Spain gets past them so that's my official now prediction however like I think they're”

going to win the group and a draw tomorrow is not a bad result on Friday if they get a draw against Australia they keep control stay in first place going into the final match police six days healthy maybe he gets the night off that's fine that's okay it's on the other world it will kill some momentum but in the grand scheme of the tournament it's fine I'll take it we move all right the bundle good to see you enjoy the game tomorrow have a great weekend go USA all right that's it for

the podcast thanks to Tim Legler thanks to the bundle thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well I'm going to be back on Sunday going live on Netflix at some point during the day I'll tweet out the exact time go USA I'll see you on some must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in president DC can tuck your well and game problem caught 100 gambler or 1-800

my reset call 888-797777 or visit ccpg.org/chat Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland hope is here visit gambling help line ma.org or call 800-327-50-50 for 24/7 support mess chisits or call 877-8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 877-770-787-67