OKC Gets Wobbled, Cleveland’s Done, and Knicks Nirvana Is Here (Maybe) With Zach Lowe and Sean Fennessey

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[MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Bill Simmons, podcast live here on Netflix. Zach Low is here. You can hear his pie.

He just put one up last night. A post game reaction to Nick's Caves. You're Tuesday morning, Thursday mornings. I have rewatchables coming Monday last comedy movie that we did for month Bay Animal House. Wow.

Classic. Really good. Lot of great lines had a great time, so that's coming. You can watch all those movies on Netflix. Alright, we're coming off Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Game 4.

I love Game 4's.

Game 4's are always great.

Game 4's are always like, but three games of feeling each other out. And then Game 4 is the awesome game. Not today. That did not happen. But there's a certain buzz for Game 4's, because if it's --

Forget the three-o game for us, like, we're going to see tomorrow. The two-one game for us. It's the fork in the road game. It's either this is going to be an epic potential 7 gamer or 3-1, and it's going to have to be a crazy comeback to get it to 7.

Now, at least, we're looking -- I'm just -- I'm just cancel your Saturday plans now, because I wouldn't be surprised at this point if we go, like, it doesn't feel like one of these teams is going to take the next two games consecutively. Counter. Okay.

“Are we getting J-Lim Williams the rest of the way here?”

And if we don't get him, and we don't get J-Lim Mitchell, the thing that jumped out tonight was just all of the sudden, okay, C had one creator. And San Antonio, you knew they were going to guard the shade differently tonight. I think that was the easiest prediction to make.

Basically, like, knock yourself out.

We're going to guard the hell out of you. If you get 35, great, we're not letting these other guys get good shots. We're not letting them get going, which is what they did. But you could really feel the lack of a second creator in this game. So you lose J-Lim Mitchell.

I mean, J-Lim Williams, but then you also don't have AJ Mitchell either. Now, all that goes on McCain, who's stunk tonight. And in the fourth quarter, Aaron Wiggins was running offense for them. It was just weird. All of a sudden, they felt depleted. Well, the whole fourth quarter was kind of a slow motion give up by the thunder.

I mean, so it came back in the game, but SJ did it. But yeah, I mean, there are game fours where you feel like, Uh-oh, did one team solve the other team. Even if it's a two, two series. Did what the poster series for that is the 2015 finals.

When the Warriors went small and played the death line up. And everyone was like, uh-oh, is this, is this just a wrap even though it's two two. And we should feel tense about it. I'm not, like, I agree with you that something happened tonight that gave me a glimmer of that sensation. And it was the combination of softening the double teams on Shay to the point that we're just not doubling you high on the floor.

If you get to within 14 feet, we'll start darting guys at you stunking guys at you. Maybe a hard double here and there, but it's going to come late and it's going to come suddenly. And it's not going to come every time and it's going to be a much more confusing defense for you to pick apart. Because they were picking apart the traps and the combination of that plus to your point. The lack of your second and third best creators to play off of, to throw the ball to.

And it felt like, huh, and I spent the second half of the game trying to think like, if I now know this is coming.

What is what is suggesting to this look like? Like, shaking it by anybody off the dribble and get into the 18 foot range.

“But what does life look like after that? How am I recreating the open threes and the good shots that we got?”

If they're not just throwing guys at me and I don't know the, I'm work shopping some answers, but I don't have any good ones yet. Well, and you didn't even mention they're also losing all the transition stuff. They're losing the fast breaks stuff because he's seeing on the guy that really felt good hands.

Not a good, not a good night for the case on Wallace on worth 30 million a year.

Agent strategy. Listen, game three. I thought Shay and game two and I didn't get to do anything after game three. I just thought Shay was just so good in those two games and just picking them apart and the way he was using his teammates. It was about as good as you can play the guard position, right?

So they knew they couldn't do whatever they did defensively again. It was notable like his stats to recall mentioning that near the end of the game. His stats aren't that good in this series for how well it seemed like he played those two games. I think he's under 40% for the series now. I mean, Wendy was the best part in the four, which now makes two games where he was the best part in the four and we're at two two,

which is kind of where we thought we were going to be anyway. So I look at it like game two. I didn't love the officiating. I thought it really affected the game. Game four was the other way. I thought the officiating affected the game for in San Antonio's favor. Thornton, Carruso, Thornton had 4,000, 9 minutes.

Carruso had 4,000, 12 minutes and it just like they weren't allowed to have the same physicality that they've added some of these other games. There was big free throw advantages for San Antonio. That was one thing. Wendy had a superstar game. And then I thought Castle, the two-way game he played and the stuff he was doing defensively, I just thought he was awesome tonight. Castle had flat out awesome.

“The loudest 13.66 game, like possible, I think.”

None of the guards Harper 7 points in 21 minutes, Fox 12 points in 31 minutes, Castle 13 in 30. It doesn't like jump off the page and any of them played great. I thought Fox looked pretty good with the ankle stuff and Harper had a couple of explosive plays that are pretty encouraging for how he's feeling. But just the presence of them 12 turnovers for the spurs. That's a winning recipe and just a calm to the offense.

And on the other side, the thunder finished with 33-3s attempted, but they only had 11 at half time. And I thought that number would really stood out as like they're just not creating open shots against this defense right now. And Wendy, he wasn't just 11 for three for them by the way.

Yeah, he wasn't just the best player in the game for the second time in the series.

He was the best player by a mile in the game for the second time in the series. And like that's also kind of alarming for the slope of city thunder that he's the best player by that much in half the series now. Did you think the half court shot was going in? Because I did. So that's going in.

I knew it was going in. I kind of like LeBron. I'm like I knew when he took it, I knew it was going in. But it really was like he's going to make this. I knew it was going in, but I only knew because I was about two minutes behind in the game.

And our text read blew up and you all ruined it for me. Like my friend ruined Tyrone Taylor's three run tying home running against the game. He's last week by texting me before I'd seen it. So I knew I knew I knew. I knew it was just a bunch of walls.

So I knew something was going to happen. And then obviously that was it. I want to talk about Wendy one second. You mentioned something about the guards. None of the box scores were spectacular.

But to me that turnovers was the big thing. Because that's what killed them. You know, especially in Game 2.

But Foxy, Foxy was an amazing.

At least he can take care of the ball. That allows Castle to be more of a two way like freelancer guy. And I just felt like their team seemed like their team tonight. It was the team when that we watched. All year now there's some weird stuff happening.

We see this happening in a series where you just start losing guys. You can trust as the series goes long. I no longer think champagne shots are going in. I no longer think count in Johnson shots are going in. So those are two pretty big guys for them during the season.

That now feel like they're in like a major major funk. And I'm wondering like. We get to like a game six game seven like really like these seven minutes. I could determine our season. It feels like it's going to be the three guards with the sound.

One B will be the line up that is kind of like this is it. These are our best five. What is it for okay see? Like if we don't have Jalen Williams again. I assume Caruso's out there with SGA and probably chat.

“But what like is it just a feel for the game or do you even feel like they have a best five at this point?”

I think it's a feel for the game and it starts with.

One big. If it's two is it heart and steam.

“I mean, Heartstein rather and chat who were minus 28 I think coming in to this game.”

But you know, Heartstein was carrying the offense early on with like one particularly high flow. That's unbelievable. Just one of the great stretches of random shot making in recent play of history. He let them and shots them that I think. No, Jay caught him at the end.

Did she catch him? Yeah.

He was tied for second with Aaron Wiggins.

Not a great. Just not a great statistical indicator. So which two big guys do you want or is just one big guy? And then if it's one big guy, you're really like you're you're scraping the end of your perimeter. Fill out guys that we really trust with, you know, case and wall.

It would probably be in there with Caruso and then like Dort has done pretty much nothing. This year is except foul and mysteries. And and yeah, the other guys are injured, you know. Yeah, if he's just going to foul and mysteries at least like get some sheep shots in and try to change the tenor of the series. Whatever he's doing.

It's not work. They played a. 11 guys plus Topic at the end. So they put 11 guys for real during the flow of the game. But also didn't have.

Jay dub and also didn't have AJ Mitchell.

This under team is so bizarre to watch in the playoffs. There's been all these cool stats about all the lineups they use. And it's almost like watching a hockey team. And then she's he's constantly mixing and matching, but sometimes I wonder like at some point as a playoff series goes along. I need to figure out who my five are, who my six are, who my seven are.

It's just like wiggins that like wiggins hasn't played really all playoffs. And tonight it felt like they actually needed them. So I don't know. It's this has been a weird one because I felt like after each game. I became convinced that the team that one was in great shape.

And then it just flips, which I guess is the point of a seven game series.

“But now I honestly think same the telling you as the advantage of.”

I have no idea, I'm going to wait. If those two guys are out the whole series Mitchell and Jay dub and the spurs injured guards can play at this level.

Then I agree with you seeing Antonio despite having only one home game left has probably an edge in the series because of what we saw.

Tonight and I think the thunder's best five. The lineup I've been waiting to see and I think they've been waiting to use. Well, two of the five are are not playing right now. And it would the lineup would have been Jay Mitchell, Caruso, Jay dub, Chet. And I think that's the best five that they can put out.

It did not play much in the regular season. It got unleashed early in the series. And it just as soon as we saw it, it's gone. And certainly the lack of any clarity on time tables for either guy has me a little concerned right at this moment. Late at night on whatever night this is.

But maybe we'll get an encouraging update tomorrow. I don't know. The Mitchell one seems more concerning. Because calf strain is just automatic. You're out for at least a week.

Right. We don't if they if they given it the. You know, and you read in the the injury stuff like the mild calf strain. calf tweak. That kind of this was like calf strain.

So calf strain to me means seven to ten days, which probably takes him out. And he didn't look right even before he got hurt. You could tell like there was something up. The the jade up thing. I have no idea. This has been the longest hamstring injury.

“I think in Lee history feels like this is just his body has not been healthy.”

What do they say he's finished to. To play off games or something out of the three rounds. Well, and it's weird because when he comes back, he looks good. Like it's not like he's getting one. He's an into it. He looks 70% he looks.

It's like really pretty close to all NBA jade up and it does change their team. You were reminded like all having a giant wing who can do all of these different things on both ends of the floor. Super valuable. And then it just he just can't kick it and it might be one of these things. That just requires a little bit more sustained off time to just disappear work itself out.

And obviously they don't have the luxury of that right now. There are minus 250 to win the series, Oklahoma City, which I just completely disagree with. That's that's updated now. That's on Fando. Yeah, minus 250. Well, I do not agree with that.

Because I thought Harper Harper looked back to me tonight. He did that one dunk in traffic where he exploded. Like he seems okay. Foxy can tell is, you know, 75, 80% speed. But it's still able to be a point card and run the offense and all that stuff.

I have an important question for you. Okay. Who do you think the rest of the league is rooting for in this series? Like both competitively and like long-term big picture. I think both of these teams are looked upon as, oh boy, we got to deal with this for the next half of our many years.

Yeah, they're just straight up hitting shay with the flopper chin and San Antonio, which very good performance by the spurs fans all around.

Like you got to be, if you're going to chant like that, you just got to get right to the point and be as mean as possible. And it's a one word chant and it does the job. But I will say they're even, even though the okay see is the correct answer for like who teams are rooting against. I guess the rest of the league is rooting against. There would also be like a.

Woo, Victor's already here like if they winters like they're already in the finals like that seems that seems fast.

“Oh my god, but I think I think okay see is the answer.”

You know who's rooting for okay see to lose. The Milwaukee backs. Now, boy, and we're going there. We're just. Just hearing right in there. It just becomes a quick. Yeah, that's.

Can you think that that is something. I. I'm not ready. I'm not ready. I'm not ready to come to play to get.

I'm just I'm just not. I mean, it's it's totally. I guess they're playbook. And we go through all of this. They won the championship last year.

Here they are two two in the Western Conference finals against another 60 plus win team. And it's already like we'll have to lose two out of the next three games. We've got to upend everything. I know the salary stuff. I know the consolidation.

I got it. Like we're already going there. I maybe we don't. I don't know. Here's why we're going there.

Yeah. Okay. Here's why I'll go for a drive. Let's go for a drive. No, here's why.

This is it. If I'm. If I'm okay see and I lose the series to a spurs team that's this young and isn't even close to being the team they are yet. And when be is the difference. And I just have no answers for him.

What do I do if I'm okay see the rest of the decade? Do I just like, oh, we had some bad luck or do I look at it differently and go, okay. Almost like how Minnesota and Tim Conland went there. I was like, I have to build the team to beat the Joker. And I think the question for okay see would be, we thought we're going to dominate the decade.

That's not going to happen. How do we construct the kind of team that can beat a generational freak? And do we have the right team right now? Was that was that just a weird two weeks or do we have the wrong roster to beat this guy?

“And that's where you have to think about, yeah, I think.”

You better know the answer to that question is we just don't have the right roster with a thousand percent certainty. If after all the success you've had, you are willing to throw the throw not throw it away, but mix it up to that extent based on the result of a few games. And that extent is going to be. But minimum one of jade up and shut in a bunch of picks and role players and everything you've got. It's the last big move you've got for a 31 year old who has not gotten through a playoff's healthy in quite some time.

You just, you just got to be sure like yep, he broke us.

We like we got to try something now because we'll never beat him again. You got to really be sure.

I just thought it would be that sure. But here's the here's the wrinkle. Heart and heart and sign. I think it's a team option for next year right for a lot of money combined with the they're going to have three max guys. And they have the door team option and they have the case and Wallace extension thing coming. This was their best like roster the way all the money work chance to compete against a win between.

And if they're going to lose already with and the money is about to go up. When they have all these picks when they have the twelfth pick in place. I just feel like you have to look at it holistically and be like, okay, this is it's reset time. Like because the other thing they could do is just bring back heart and sign at that at that price.

“If they, if they don't pick it up, he's going to go to fridge and he'll get 20 plus million from I think a bunch of different teams.”

There seems to have cap space and trade exceptions and all kinds of things. I promise you the Celtics would be in on that with the giant trade exception there. So that it's just it's a weird one and it's a weird spot to be if you're okay see we're like, wow, I thought we're going to dominate the last five years now it's two two. What do I do flip side San Antonio is fine. Like when they lose this series they're like whatever like where we're happy to be here. Yeah, we could probably tweak around it. We'll figure out in February they're not there there'd be no panic at all.

Okay, see I'd have to wonder if they panic a little.

Well, first of all, well, well done. Thank you for mentioning the last thing because I was I had two editorial comments for you on F at number one.

Really good job bringing up the Celtics, even though they haven't played in three weeks. Thank you. Can track she had to do you want to do a deep dive on Vluchovich and his market and whether any cap space seems what we want him. We know his market. It's called the put it's called the veteran minimum and this I was going to say before you fit I was going to say I have to we have to strike a deal now. Yeah, I mean, I won't even be your guest on the next podcast because that's how it works, but the deal is going to be if the thunder win game five and go up three two.

You're not allowed to do it.

You're banned from we can't react that way to one spurs loss. Is that it? Can we make that deal? Or are you going to go off the on that? What about what about trade Murphy? Fine. That's fine. That's reasonable.

That's allowed. Can we agree? Can we agree on us and when be just is too weird? And probably doesn't make any sense whatsoever. But weird is what you're going for, right? Like weird is what the jazz are going for.

“Weird is what you have to go for if you think this is the insurmountable alien mountain that we just can't climb.”

And like we got to try something different. That's different. Those two guys together on defense even though Janis isn't the same guy he has been defensively as a help defender around the rim. Those two guys together. It's something. I don't know what it is on offense, but it's something.

What do you think happened when be on game three?

In game three now that we just saw game four. What was he tired? Did they just have a bad strategy? I thought it was really weird watching and real time. I know you talked a little bit about it last night. But I didn't understand the strategy at all.

I didn't understand why he was so far away from the basket. I didn't understand why they weren't playing with pace. He seemed a little sluggish to me. And it was really making me wonder did that double OT game? Was that just a huge tax for both teams?

But especially with him having played that many minutes. Then he looked fine tonight. Two days later you throw it out the window.

“But what do you think happened to him in game three?”

Was it pressure? Was it too much adrenaline? Did okay see? Do something like what was your what was your take on that? I mean without being in his head. I assume there's a little bit of all the like an unquantifiable stuff you're talking about right? You know, this is a guy's minute.

It's been pretty monitored throughout his career. And now it's just balls to the wall. You got play 49 minutes in game one, whatever it was. Pressure, home, playoff debut, thunder, chat, the whole thing. But I also think it took them some time to adjust to after six of what five regular season games

and another game one of the thunder pretty much exclusively guarding him one way. Then they go scrap everything all of that in guard him another way with big guys. With the single-minded goal of we're not letting you get lubs at the rim and offensive rebound. So we're going to take your shot selection and shove it outside. And he that A they executed well B.

“I think there initial reaction was the spurs were a little back on their heels.”

And Victor was a little bit back on his heels. And he kind of like went along with that. And tonight was going to be like both he and the guards. And I thought Castle set him up on a couple early picking rules really well. There was just not going to be any denying that he's going to the basket.

Even if it's not all the way there, I'm just going to take one little dribble in reach. And it's going to be a hook shot or he tried to throw in the ball off the back door to himself. Two times like it was just he was just not going to settle. It looked his first three shots were still jumpers. He took a fair amount of jumpers in the game.

But there was just a different mentality and aggression level to his game. I think that's just I think that's just feeling out and elite defense who threw a monkey wrench into your plans halfway through, you know, the series or whatever. I agree with that. I think there's one other piece. It seemed like they were really trying to attack and get to the basket and get in the paint get to the rim.

I don't I haven't seen them. We'd take right after these games and. But I would guess the stats for them in the paint were a little bit different in this game. And it felt like they were like just let's attack throw the ball near the room for Wemby. Let's just like go downhill a little bit more because that game three was just weird to watch them.

It always felt like they were going backwards or sideways and never like going going toward the rim.

The check piece though. He made it on me today. Yeah, what's what's our collective level of remorse for jail and dirt and over Scotty Barnes at this at this point after the play. For me zero. I'm not taking any ship for that. I'm voting centers every year for each team and until as long as I have a vote. I'm not changing because we decided to make this like little league where everybody gets a participation trophy to be in an all and be a team.

I'm not throwing away 75 years of history because they stupidly set a change of rules. I want a center or somebody who can resemble a center. I want each of my teams to kind of look like a basketball team. Okay, I don't want to detour down jail and dirt and dirt. No, just saying, but it's a regular season award. I have no regrets.

That let's talk about shit. I thought he was a little better than this and I maybe he's in a funk. But I really was more of a believer than what I'm seeing. And I don't mean to do the morning TV show. Chet home grids got a step up. I'm not doing that. I just honestly thought he would have more of an impact than I'm from watching him in the season.

I really thought he had rounded into, you know, dead eye three point shooter. Just really, really severely impactful defender.

And it feels like Wendy's in his head. I don't even like his body language.

The only there time I remember his body language like this was in the Indiana series. I felt like you could feel him sliding a little bit a couple times in that series where the pressure. You could just kind of see it. He was carrying it. But I thought he shed that and now it feels like Wendy's in his head. Now in his defense, Wendy's a 7 foot 7 alien who came out of UFO.

“So I get it. I'm just saying I honestly just thought he would put better than this.”

I think we're going to do some sort of pressure. Let's do that after the break. Yeah, but I mean not to spoil one of my potential picks depending on draft order. Gentlemen has 45 points in four games in this series. He took one three tonight despite the fact that the spurs are playing a good chunk of each of these games in like a hybrid zone defense where someone is going to be open from three. Yeah, the guy closing out to you in the corner is going to be the alien and I get it.

And we're going to hear a lot of like, well, this just isn't a chess series. This just isn't a chess series. The match up stuff for him. That's not acceptable. This is the team they have to beat for next year. Exactly what I'm going to set this exactly what I was going to say. It's some point you reach a stature where every series has to be your series.

And chat is at the defensively he's infallible. The guy's amazing. He's going to bring that every game.

He just has like there was just what there was one play tonight where they're guarding him with wings the whole game, right. That's just what they're doing for the most part. And he just sort of faced up and broke bro at his way to like the dotted line against seven of a cell. Drew some help and kicked out to case and Wallace for the only three that case and Wallace made in the game. Well, I mean, like, we can't get a look. When your when she's game is off when the whole offense is clogged up, you can't do it. Like we can't get a little more that I know he said we do this with mobile too, right? Like he's not going to put his head down and post up and get us 25 like any big band, but like 45 points and four games.

It just is not enough. I mean, especially when you're starting to lose scores on your team game by game. It's just I just think it's been a weird series. All right. We're going to take a break and we're going to come back and we're going to do pressure rankings for what might end up being an awesome seven game series right after this. Let's do the pressure rankings and let's go. I'm coming. I'm coming back like Devon the cell and hitting the trail three on the delayed delayed break. I like that I've criticized each other than I screwed up the break that I didn't have going into the thing. Well, we got into something like pick my nose.

Well, Chad, that was dangerous times. Do you want to pick first? Just show. Well, you pick first and you just took.

I assume check your first pick. I mean, somebody else. No, I would want somebody else, but I did just do a check thing. So we'll pretend to buy first pick. I will. I'll pick first. Yeah. I'll take check first. Okay.

“I think Chad has the most pressure and the biggest spotlight on him now as we head into the rest of this series of.”

He just especially on the heels of the all-in-basing. I need to feel you more in this series, Chad home group. You know, we talked about this with Evan Moby too and I do feel like I know they're down three nothing, but I do feel like Evan Moby went up like a half level as the playoffs went along. And I just felt like defensively, I put this way. The position there and is that Evan Moby's fault. I don't think. And I thought he rose to the occasion. I would like to see that from chat. So what would be your first pick for the pressure rankings?

Well, I'll just steal your thunder and go straight to the top. Shea has had an okay series. Oh, he's shooting 39% through four games. Yeah. And less than 30% on threes. He's turnovers are up here at four turnovers tonight and a bunch of them are the same kind of like I'm just going to kind of bulldoze my way into traffic and oh my god, all these guards are awesome defensively. I just fell over and I don't have the ball anymore turnovers. And I look, I get it.

It's Victor when I'm in Yamma right there the spurs have the one guy who can fuck up all the shit you're trying to do all the stuff that works against every other team. If you get into the lane, you get into all your sweet spots and all of a sudden it's it's there's a guy right behind you messing with your space back there and this guy over here. He's just going to have to problem solve his way out of this and and have. If they're going to win this series win two of the next three games and Jay doves going to be out and Mitchell's going to be out and we don't know, but let's just say.

“I think he's going to have to have two efficient games.”

If they're not going to be like the crazy 16 of 23, oh my god, this is the best guard we've seen since Michael Jordan or whatever you want to say. But like 10 of 20 11 of 22, I just think he's going to have to dig his way out of this and problem solve it, especially if we like we talked about before. If the spurs aren't going to kind of have give him the answers by trapping him at half court with his where his decision tree becomes a little easier.

We've talked all season about all the historical stuff that he's on the press.

Well, this is the precipice, the precipice is digging out of this series and I'm not saying he's got pressure on him like I'm going to think differently of him if they lose this series or he's been a flopping fraud the whole time or anything like that.

“But it's just like this is it. This is the moment where if the all time grades find a way to dig out of whatever victor women yam is doing you.”

I like how you frame that and if he has the chance to be an all time great. It's moments like this when you don't have the same team that you started the playoffs with and your plan of. The best example ever, this is Jordan in the 98 playoff season.

Yes, Scotty's back goes out.

Rodman's doing whatever he's getting drunk every off day is going to Vegas and Jordan just is like all right and just. You know, but that's the greatest basketball pour we've ever had. There's been other good examples like my favorite bird season was 87 when a kale had the foot. I had an ankle, DJ had an ankle, but won't couldn't play and bird just kept kind of throwing people on his back feels like we're there with SGA.

“I think one thing there's one of the narratives from coming out of this game to game five will be the officiating.”

And that okay, see got hoes down calls and their fan base and I don't play him on their fan base is going to say you guys complain about us that we get all the calls we get to foul we flop.

We didn't get any calls in game four and and SGA got banged around by castle and they didn't call it but when we got banged around and they called it. And and we want more fair treatment for MVP so that would be a whole narrative the next to this. With that said. I'm just not really that afraid of leaving some of the guys open that route there. Right, like I'm okay with Wallace wide open.

I'm okay with Lou Dort. Caruso is the Josh Harder this team it's like you're going to live with it until he makes a couple. You know they had Williams was out 10 Rick Williams was out there at one point hitting corner three is but I just don't know who I trust on that team. As they had Joe seems like they're instant three guy, but they don't seem to go in that often anymore. And then Wiggins would be the other one, but I just think they're going to guard him the same way they did tonight and he's going to have to be awesome.

“If you're doing same game par lays like the SGA points with the okay C win would be the reliable one I think for game five.”

I think those kind of which Williams corner three's are really interesting place to go back and rewatch because. The spurs found a bit of a road map tonight and look the road map is having Victor Webigama, but this road map was. You say you pick your matchup at the top of the arc like 35 feet away. You want to run a screen and roll and get champagne on you or have a sell on you or someone you feel a little more comfortable with fox. Then you do Harper castle fine. We'll give you the switch you're going to beat that guy after dribble cool like beat them off the dribble.

We're not gonna double you we're not even take your two because if you beat a guy off the dribble one on one it's not like that guy disappears. He's going to be right on your hip at the cadence shade plays and then you're going to get to 16 feet and when you get to 16 feet a couple things are going to happen. Thing number one is the alien is going to be in your airspace a little bit thing number two is there may not be a double team but you're going to see the guy on your right and the guy on your left.

Kind of on their toes have something getting in your field division right messing with messing with your mind and those reads those moments. I don't know what the answer is when you're in that kind of sandwich of like four guys all around you and one of the Victor women yama. And you haven't been given a trap 30 feet from the rim which just unleashes the past past past three zip gotten. But that's where those kind of rich Williams threes in the right corner came out of is is that moment just like that.

And maybe the answer is the thunder is just going to have to play all their shooters and hope that they make enough of those threes that they get sitting and telling you out of that because I don't know what she's. And it's going to do it in that airspace or how to get him in a different airspace against that defects like there was that one floater he took where you could see him thinking like I'm shaking something or I got to get something in this space and it was just this moon ball one handed right hit and moon ball had no shot.

And it was like yeah you don't see a player of his skills that look that like unleash a shot that like is a no chance or from 13 feet away. Not the injured one the center one for seven from three to night. McCain Mzo for five as a Joe was two for seven. That's like ding him with the with the hammer, but those shots I thought for the most part were pretty open. And they just didn't make them when you they miss 31 of their first 35 threes right door has 15 points in the whole series.

There's just a lot of loot door two for five three for seven kind of games where he just makes just enough to make it hurt and he is to in four games.

“Somebody that I don't feel like we'll be in the thunder next year.”

Team option. They've got to put money somewhere it's a different conversation. All right my next pressure pick. You know you just took the best guy in okay see. I've left you with not much to do. Yeah it really has to be Wemby. And normally I would say he's 22 and he's playing with house money at this point is this is this play I've already been a massive win for him. But A they have a chance to win the title B we saw him get a little spooked in game three I felt like or whatever was going on with them. So it's not like he's we know is human because if he wasn't human he would just be rolling through the league every game.

But I wonder as we get closer and closer to the end of this in the spotlight gets bigger his tendency is the hotter the spotlight the better he plays so we'll see but it just feels like if he has a game like he had in game one or even a game like he had tonight then.

“I feel like they're going to win the series with the injuries on okay see side kind of to him.”

Yeah if he's the best guy by a significant margin obviously that's a that's a big one I was going to cheat and just go the collective of Fox Harper castle and only because the guard crew only because.

Keeping the turnovers down is the single best way to get yourself into a game against the thunder and they did that tonight and it's been a little up and down throughout the series because two of those guys have played limited minutes and a couple games and castles been over tax but. If it like I mean you would want to single out Fox because he's the the vet the experience guy but I just think the three of them together have to have a very clean game two more very clean games. Yeah I would have taken castle with my next pick for.

Just because of some of the stuff I talked about him I bought on Thursday about the Westbrook 2008 to 2016. That side where he's just you love everything he does but there's there's a couple times he gets a little out of control low sloppy now that Fox is there feels like that goes away. My next guy would be McCain because it's in the Mitchell and then I've jailing lambs and I thought he I he just didn't have it tonight he was terrible. And this was after a weekend of everybody shooting on Darrell and oh my god and I can't put the trade in them so where'd you stand on that trade when it happened.

I was surprised. I was certainly surprised that it was the way Philadelphia chose to save money. I was I just I wouldn't give up a player that had showed me what he showed in albeit 20 whatever games is a rookie. I was kicking myself for not anticipating the thunder being the team to overpay and get him it was just such a perfect trade and such a perfect fit he's sort of like their. Super duper version of Isaiah Joe not that not the shooter that he is but someone who with a lot more ball handling juice and kind of moxie to his game.

I understood why the six was did it. Yeah and that they got more return than they were going to get ever trading Jared McCain because he was not playing for their team which is also their fault. But and then he was trapped behind those two guards who were going to be there franchise mainstays but I don't know it seemed like a unnecessary gamble to me.

“Yeah so he wasn't playing for them and I think the the case was that his stock was only going to get worse.”

In your cashing in on these picks that are easier for tri we've heard the arguments by the question remains to me is why was it playing more it's not like he was on the 86 Celtics and maxi was playing 40 minutes a game in edge almost plain like 39. So even if you say well he's behind those guys is like well so what you still have 96 guard minutes per game you still have an 82 game season plus playoffs with. You know injuries and all the wear and terror of a season like why wouldn't you want to have three good guards and.

It's just it felt like nurse probably probably quit on them a little bit and it was only being at worse and it's like well we get to the off season well we want to be able to first for him.

But I just it was a weird one because he did so well last year is a rookie. You know it's not it's not like it's how this it wasn't like I came reddish thing said oh he's got so much potential he was so good in high school like Jeremy came was good last year before he got heard so so we're traded and I get it that they wanted the assets but.

You're a bunch of picks for him. That would be a fucking red flag. It's like maybe we should keep this guy. Presti really wants him like I like she would be really excited this.

“Yeah, you wonder if Sam Presti can you know he's probably I could be an rotation but it's a nice flyer for us and look we have all these extra pegs.”

Some of our picks will take them off your hands and areas in the rotation but to your point. Three points shooting is kind of cooled off even in his big game and in game three it was mostly two's yeah and you took a ton of shots which is fine. They need to guys take a ton of shots. It's a good pick that's because if it's not those two guys the J.W. and AJ then it's got to be it's someone among this group is going to have to give you. 18 to 22 points like it's just it's good. Okay well, case and wall is was five and eight from three it's going to have to be one of those guys.

What do you have for your next pick.

Well look I mean I don't know we haven't taken a coach. Well I mean one coach just won the championship a year ago and the other coach is a you know was a former interim now permanent fill in for one of the greatest coaches of all time and to steam 160 whatever games. I don't you know I don't think there's any I don't think any seats are getting hot. I'll go I'll go like this is going to be near and dear to your heart. I don't know if the nuns can go to every game but I just I just it's not his fault it's not his fault but look for net minus nine and 13 minutes.

I will just put him in is the symbol of. Even in this blowout game. Yeah, the non-wempy minutes are just are it's big it's Yokechi now where it's just like I don't know what the best lineup combination is to be throw all the guards out there but I'll put him in is the unfair stand alone. That's a symbol of those minutes. I thought Kornet was okay today.

He was good this was the best game of the series I think. I'm going with the two ladies who their bodies from the neck down were just on camera behind Mitch Johnson and there's been there was some commotion about them on the internet's. Yeah, I think this was the first time and and I think it's going to become a talking point I think people are going to be looking forward to game six certain types of people on the internet's that enjoy these things but it was certainly. Certainly interesting every time they cut to Mitch Johnson what was going on behind them.

So you're saying they're they're under pressure they're under pressure yeah because now people are expecting it for game six like the spurs are up three two. Did you see I know you're a fan of watching you we can we like with the way we watch games we see the it in arena entertainment sometimes during the commercial basically you see Mark Henry's appearance tonight.

“I did that well I mean if you want to talk about someone who's under pressure.”

I mean it rumble rumble device and the thunder mascot was at this game in San Antonio and it wasn't unless I took acid and hallucinated it in one of the commercial breaks. They had Mark Henry come out from the stands and I was like I don't know like what's Mark Henry doing here is what's going to happen. And he chair shot it rumble the bison and then kicked them a little bit on the ground while the spurs coyote like freaking Jimmy Hart with the megaphone was like jumping around taunting rumble the bison.

So my question from all the places is why do you agree to this why are you at this yeah you're losing to Mark Henry you didn't you didn't think like all the spurs are being so nice inviting me to the game my mascot friend must really love me you didn't think it set up was in play and how are you going to respond. Is the coyote getting in the fight is the coyote getting kidnapped like how are you going to respond that you can't just let this stand maybe they're doing a home in home. Is that possible right now he has to go to okay see.

I had a couple a couple side note things. And then I want to ask you who you think is going to win game five. That's not a role player Kuroso where he stands in the role role player all time rankings all that stuff you see the best role player of the 2020 is best role player of the century. Reggie Miller in the pre game show was talking about how important role players are and then proceeded to list multiple guys who weren't role players who were actually just really good players who were like board on be a guy.

I did keep going backwards and he was like 2024 Derek white. And then and they was like ah Derek wait, it's not a role.

“I just there's a specific type of role player amount rush more that I think we have to discuss.”

And the first person who has to be mentioned anytime the conversation happens is Robert Horry I just want to say that as a PSA.

Everybody who likes basketball everybody has a platform Robert Horry has to be the first person you mentioned it can't be outscrew so it can't be Derek Fisher it has to be Robert Horry when seven titles this was I put him in my pyramid of my basketball book.

You would know what game I was talking about. I mean seven games. Give me the team and I'll try to guess what game it is. So Robert Horry has to be first and he's the perfect example of a role player where he doesn't matter if he's getting his stats.

He always has a knack for getting better in a manner.

And that's to me a definition. Derek White's like of star like he's a really good player.

“Equadala is an interesting one where on golden state golden state equal doll I became a role player like an overqualified role player right I think the four best are Horry.”

Equadala in total chorizo and I want to have the chorizo combo really quickly Horry Warriors. Derek Fisher in Michael Cooper now I'm not this is my lifetime so I'm not doing KC Jones such standards people like that but I think those are the four and then apologies to. Bobby Jones who I think was better than a role player actually think he was like a notch above. Or Ellie is definitely there. He can't even put him kiss of death Mario Mario is one of my all time fair role players he's in there and then and then chorizo but there's chorizo crack the top four for you like post merger.

Because he's got the title on the lakeers he's got the title though KC has a chance to win another one yet three like you're really in a different conversation now you know as three with three different teams is Danny green. Also very good. Danny Greer is another good person vintage. Yeah I'm going to add him. That's a great one.

I think we need parameters to your point about Derek white and even Andre with dollar. Derek white received all NBA votes this today the building came out he received a few thirty more NBA votes. I don't know if a role player can receive all NBA votes and a good all is an all star like I did do are be allowing all stars like one time two time all stars drew holidays year role player we got throw them out. Well so I guess the question is if you're one of your best four players on your team or your role player.

The fourth best player could be in in a lot of cases a quote unquote role player. I think it has to be five through nine. Okay. I'm fine with that. I'm just saying like Igwood dollar was a twenty point score in an all star.

“I believe he made an all star team in his early one maybe in his six or six year.”

Maybe I'm a great another one not a role player. Like don't put him in this. It has to be like Mara Ellie the team could win with or without the person. Make it probably survive but the person is the cherry on the Sunday you know. Who's your favorite random role player ever.

I mean who's your guy who just never who never really landed on the right team.

Josh Hart, by the way, has another role player about Rushmore potentially but he hasn't won a title but he's. That's a good one. Yeah. He's right at the point though is he. Too good for role player status.

He's not a top four guy in his team. But is there a guy that you were like man if he had only just landed on the right team? I'm going to just throw three names at you just that you know. No preparation. I don't know.

I didn't put it up. Trevor or Risa. Hmm. Well Trevor is a one one though. He gets one for oh nine so he gets to at least be in this little club.

Okay. As an all five time risk club. You get the jacket at least. He might he had better years than this because of the team. He was on but I just had the softest of sauce buzz for Lafanzo Ellis.

Interesting. Same era same team. I just like late 90s me was like man. These teams should be trying to get the Sean letter on their team. He's like just he's just a random like a Mario Ellie kind of guy tough.

Like he got him at one point. I just for some reason I just loved Sean Leonard. This just ran again random names.

I have one that never gets mentioned anymore and should his James Posey.

Oh yeah. Two out of three years one the title doing awesome rollbar stuff. There's other versions of it right there's the Eddie House type. I wouldn't say that fits for this. Fisher was an amazing one.

Fisher had just one of the most bizarre careers ever was just in a mill.

“I think he's like second or third most playoff games ever.”

There was on all of these different teams. Even when okay see who's basically a dead body on okay see. You know, because he's like, well, it's still there for sure. Maybe he still has it. And they were still wrong with them.

Okay. Well, can I can I throw another name. Did I board a name some guys territory? Yeah. Did Nick Batuma send beyond this.

It is Portland prime. Never one that. Yeah, well, he's he's a classic never. Did he make a finals? I don't think so.

All right. Well, we named some guys.

The shot out for Sean Lender. Oh, taste shot. Prince is a fan. Count's right. Oh, my God.

Yes. Great. Who do you have one in game five? I picked Thunder and seven. I'll pick the Thunder when game five.

I don't know. Someone asked me this. I was at the next game the other day.

“Game two and people are like, what do you think is going to win?”

Who thinks who I'm like? Let me just go through what's happened in the last two weeks.

Cleveland with a chance to close out the pistons at home and game six gets their asses kicked by a million points.

And they say, oh, the pistons have all the momentum. They're going home for game seven. They lose by 30 points. Like the individual games. I don't know.

I'm just going to say the Thunder because I picked the Thunder. But I, I'm will say something in my, you know what? No, forget it. Spurs. Spurs figured something out tonight in the Thunder or Randall.

I'm going to go spurs. I think you went Thunder and seven. I'm sticking with Thunder and seven. I think spurs. I could, I would lean toward them game five because of the injuries.

I don't think it'll mean they win the series. That's where I would land. Um, okay. I think it's, we're almost time to bring Sean fantasy in to talk about the next. But before, as we, as Sean warms up in the bullpen, here.

Um, what do you, on a scale, once a 10?

“What do you prepare for with Cleveland and the offseason if they get swept?”

I mean, everything, anything. I mean, I don't, do they have one person you'd be like, no way they're trading that dude? Um, no. Do you? So if they brought me in as a conciliary.

I would, I would, mobility would be my one keeper. I'd want another year with him. I liked how he played in the playoffs and I, I just feel like I hang nothing on him. And if I'm giving up mobile, I have to get somebody awesome. I'm not trading mobile for you on us.

That's in absurd trade. There's no way they should do that. It's crazy. Because last year I suggested that would be the trade. Why did I make sure?

I just wouldn't do it. I don't think he honest is changing the destiny of the calves winning the title. I don't think that was their issue. The issue was that they have a back court of Thont of a Mitchell and James Harden who can't guard any guards. Well, I, I, I, I was just playing Devos IV because the argument for it,

which you can find people who would make. I, I, I would be very hesitant to do a two and probably not because then I've just made myself in two deals. I've made myself so much older all of a sudden. Yeah. But I do, I do now have an interesting two year, three year window with Thont of a Mitchell.

And you know, that's interesting, but I, I don't know that I've seen enough from this team to be like, well, we're, you know, we're so close. If Brooklyn call, then said, we'll give you the six pick. And our 2021 first for Mitchell. We'll, we'll just take him off your hands. I would do a no way.

No way for who you're doing that is Cleveland. Yeah. I mean, look, you like that even blanket. You'll leave a couple, like all those guys at six, 20, 29 first. I'm assuming Brooklyn is, I mean, look, all the pick values are going to change.

And I say 50 million and all the luxury tax stuff.

“And do I think Mitchell is going to be on my team two years from now?”

Is he going to stay? I'm doing that. Well, okay. So you gave your, you gave your consigliary self knowledge of Donovan Mitchell's plans that I personally don't have. And he said all the right things about Cleveland and wanted to stay in Cleveland, he signed extensions there before.

But, you know, there is an interesting conversation to be had of like, is, all with all these guys, really, like he's the next contract going to be worth it. I'm resetting. I made a run at it. It didn't happen.

I have a chance to get an on be a guy in this draft. I keep mobile. I reset. I reset my tax. I lick my wounds.

And I get ready to make another run at it with the younger team. I would, is where I would land. I would love to still have Darious Garland in that scenario. But, alas. Yeah.

I do not. But alas. You know who we do have is Sean Finessey. Oh boy. Yes.

What's up? So I owed Sean Finessey this appearance because we've known each other for 14 years.

I've made a hundred million next jokes.

He's also come on my pot many times after sad. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. I think dispers is a coin flip.

“I think full strength thunder is, I think I said like 25, 30% chance the next could win.”

Obviously the thunder aren't at full strength. I think this is a legitimately really good team that has found whatever they needed to find. And are in this zone now that I don't think they're coming out of it. I don't think there's a crisis around the corner all of something over there. They lose their rhythm or, you know, towns, all of a sudden wants more shots or whatever it is that would disrupt their rhythm.

I don't think that's coming. I think this is the team. And this is the level of play we're going to see going forward. And I think they're just a strength. They're a strange team.

Like, Bronson is a strange guy to game plan for towns at the five is a really interesting tough look to deal with. And when they put shamit in, it's really tough to deal with. They're just they're an unusual team that plays it in unusual cadence. And I think they're going to sustain this level of play. And taking win, I said after the failures, they can win.

This is not, this is not, you know, I was at game one. Next cabs. And it was the day after game one spurs thunder. And there was like some snicker and going around about from some of the people, you know, some of the league figures, agents, etc. And attendance, not people with the teams.

So yeah, that was a nice win by the next year. Nice comeback. But like the real finals is happening over there. And I was like, I don't think that's true. I just don't think that's true anymore.

I think they can win. Shonset's going to explode. I, I, I've been turning this over in my head. Obviously a lot. And I was just in Europe for 10 days and like watching games at two o'clock in the morning and trying to wrap my head around what was really going on here.

And I was afraid to come back to the United States to be totally honest. I was nervous that if I came back, things would go awry. And then I just watched yesterday's game at in normal pacific time and everything again, just they just seemed different. And I remember watching them in February. I'm, I'm feel we probably were texting about it back then when they just seemed not together.

It was unclear what towns' role really was on the team.

He was doing the same dumb defensive lapses and stupid fouling that he's been doing for the first decade of his career.

And things came together near the end of the season. They started playing better in the last 10 or 15 games of the year. They did win the NBA Cup. It's not like they did win 50 games. And you know, it's not like they weren't consistently good this year.

“But um, you know, I think also some things broke right for them in the playoffs.”

I think it's nice that the Celtics had to play an incredibly inspired sixers team who were desperate to beat the Celtics. The pistons, I think were a paper tiger all season, but they also did not particularly have answers for the two teams that they played. And I got to give it up to Mike Brownman. I don't know how much you guys have been talking about it. But he's done stuff with this team that Tib's was not doing.

And it was controversial, especially in New York, whether or not Tib should have been fired. And it's a huge freaking relief to me that he was, even though I think he's responsible for rebuilding this franchise. And a lot of ways because Mike Brown is flexible, man. And he plays the bench. And the bench has been a huge part of this run, the fact that they're so deep.

I remember I was talking to CR before the sixers series. And he was like, well, you guys aren't deep. And I was like, that's wrong. Like this this team routinely plays eight guys sometimes nine guys in playoff games. And look, I don't know if you guys have been watching Landry sham it for the last three weeks.

But he looks like an elite bench player in the NBA. Yeah, it's been amazing. Yeah, Kyrie completely quit on him. And when he was on Brooklyn, I remember feeling that he was on his way out of the league. I was looking, so this has been a 10 game Odyssey to get to the point that got to yesterday.

I was so impressed by how they played yesterday and he looked at the box score.

“And it's like, if you were just drawing on a map, what the ultimate next box score would look like.”

The fronts in at 30, OG Bridges had 23 and 21 and Bridges was 11 for 15. And you felt him the whole game, right? He was just, he was either running the floor or he was running in little open spaces in the half court. He was just, you felt him whereas like most of the season it felt like he was just in the corner with this hand up or not doing anything. Towns was 13, 8 and 7 was zero turnovers.

Heart was 12 nine and five with four steals and Shaman at 14 off the bench, they were 11 for 28 from three is they shot 55% and they had actual ball movement.

But it was watching his shot was like, it felt, it felt a little 2004 range distance to me.

“Which is interesting because I think that was the model for how they built this team. Like it was Leon Rose and World Wide West.”

West was a huge pistons guy, like he was a Detroit guy and that, and that model of like just bringing competitive veterans. Guys like kidding the right points of their careers, guys are going to sacrifice. And you go through the moves they made, like the pistons, they had been well as they signed billups and traded for Hamilton in the same summer. They drafted Tation, but then the big move was they fired Rick Carlisle on hired Larry Brown.

It's basically what the next did with tips, right?

And then the Rashid Wallace deadline trade was the other one. The next, they had some luck with Dallas fucking up the Brunson thing, right? That was at 4 for 55 Zack for Brunson. Dallas could have locked them down. There's a whole, I don't think we have time to dig into the whole jail in Brunson who said what when, what was offered when, why, why wasn't it offered when they could have locked them down for that.

And if they had been a little more proactive, I think they probably could have. So they signed heart and stain, who was like a stop gap, but the other big lucky break for them was the Mitchell Utah trade.

“Which I forgot to detail, do you remember what the hold up was on that trade, Sean?”

No, what was the hold up? The jazz really wanted crimes in the trade and the next one had quickly in the trade.

And it became like, well, it's either three am protected first or two first and are protected depending on who is in it.

And then they said, fuck you and took the Cleveland trade. Zack, if they have Mitchell and Brunson, does that team make sense to you? Plus you don't have all the extra picks to trade for bridges. I was also going back and rereading the Donovan Mitchell trade stuff for different reasons, but I remember thinking at the time. And Ian Begley was, is and was the most plugged in next guy at the time, and he had a lot of the details about, well, this offer was made here at this timeline and was there a pick here.

And it's just like, it's just maybe think. The, the next really want to do this, like. Right. They wanted to do it on their terms almost first. Because they wanted to do it because they, they knew.

The question you just asked me about like these two guards small score first. Because this actually going to work and, and if we use all these assets here, what do we have left for stuff down the line. I, I look, I'm sure there was part of their front office.

“I really wanted to do it and there was debate internally about this pick that pick, but the bottom line is they did not go as all in as they needed to go all in and I think it unquestionably.”

Save them. It unquestionably. The roads not taken for them are are that are in bead. And obviously, Janis is the one that had to Sean's point halfway through the season. All the discourse was while they blew with McKayloper, just they don't have picks for Janis.

They're hopeless and, you know, they're just kind of stuck. And what I was re-listening to the live show I did in Brooklyn because I felt at the time it was mid March. And I felt like the whole show was me giving Nick's fans a pep talk like, no, you guys are. There, you guys are third and often six in defense. Yeah, I know it's been a little rocky, but like who who's beating you in the east? And because it felt like Nick's fans needed a pep talk as like, I don't.

Sean really good. I could tell you that much. I, I didn't have huge expectations for the playoffs. I thought they should definitely beat the Hawks and then after that, I thought it was a crap shoot because I thought any, any of those top five teams. A lot of things also like the magic, not having to deal with the magic and then the magic kind of falling apart was another thing that went their way.

There were a million things that went their way to the point about Donovan Mitchell. If they had acquired him and they tried to pair them together, I think it might have been a somewhat similar situation that Brunson had to contend with through the first four seasons of his professional career. This actually playing behind Luca. And so you could say like the Mav's mismanaged that scenario, or maybe there was nothing they really could have done by just having a superstar backup point guard behind the single best backup player in the sport.

But you just can't under like overstate who and what Brunson is.

There's just, there has never been a New York Nick like him.

There are very few players in the NBA like him. I think like maybe now finally NBA fans who like even if they deep down hate the next, like you can't watch him for nine consecutive fourth quarters. And consistently watch him just take over games and be unguardedable. I mean his shot-making, he's been doing this since he came to the next. This is not new.

It's like it's the supporting cast that you just described Bill. It's those guys. Those pivotal moves that they've made acquiring OG acquiring Miguel, building up Robinson so that he could play 65 games in the season acquiring cat.

Brunson's been basically the same guy who scores 27 points a game, who is fearless down the stretch,

who always puts the team on his shoulders.

The team isn't going well. We can point to him and say, Oh, well, you know, it's it's ice so ball. And it's all Brunson and he's taking nine of 13 shots in the fourth quarter. But when they're going good, I'm in the supporting cast looks good. That works. And it has been working throughout this playoffs.

And I genuinely, you know, you can talk about like Walclad Frazier. You know, there's a Roman Roe because it's a very short list of guys that he is now getting into the conversation with after just five seasons. And I don't know, it's making my head spin. It's cry. Just when we picked him up, I was, I was not against the move at all. It was obviously a very savvy contract.

But never in my wildest dreams that I ever think he would become this person to the franchise. We all like Brunson.

“I think the next felt like he could be this guy.”

I do think Leonardo West did feel that way. I thought that was crazy. I clearly thought he, I might have even said it in the pods. Like this guy could be one of the best three guys on a final 14. Like there's no question. I didn't think he could be what he became.

You're talking about like for an entire generation of mixed fans. Well, multiple generations. But if you're talking about like 30 and under mixed fans. Like they're, this is like their David Ortiz basically. If they win the title, he becomes David Ortiz.

One of the things about how they put the team together. They were cut throw to a couple times. The town's trade was cut throw. Like that, like Randall was like their guy. Like they brought him in.

They gave him a big extension. And they went and signed defensive chenzo. They traded. I think what they trade top ends have the deep chenzo money. Bill and over guy.

This is our crew now. And then they had a chance to get towns. And they just like. Slip their throw. It's basically went got towns.

That was cut throw. And then the the tip straight. The tips firing. Kind of have to do that sometimes. You know, there's a difference between being desperate and cut throw.

Those were two moves that were probably the right moves. But it's still like I don't know if all teams make those moves. That. No. It's like where we took it earlier, where a focus sees like check can't defend Wemby.

We're trading them. And it's just like we're cutting this throw. Some teams won't do it. No, the town's one was was a risk. And it's one that has has gone up and down over like halfway through the season.

It looked like it did Minnesota. Like kind of win the straight. It gets all over the place. And like Randall's playing really well.

And even changed was essential.

And now it's like swung totally other way. But it was a bet on it was a ceiling bet. It was a. We need to take some risk of absorbing this contract because it. It if it works.

Our ceiling goes up. A level that Randall and even chance. I just can't. They need a center. You need a center and you need just a five.

We can shoot. And yeah, I mean, they've been and it. It was a guy they clearly just targeted and Brunson. I remember I was with you guys.

“I mean, I remember vividly doing on my old podcast.”

Like that deal was slammed like really unpopular contract in a lot of corners. And I remember saying. I don't I don't love it. But it's like a B B plus like jail and Brunson's a really good player. And like it's a lot at that time.

But like it's a B B plus contract. Obviously in retrospect it was an A plus plus plus. What was it four for a hundred? What was it? A little four four one six.

Yeah, one of six. I was on the bowish side for it. But I asked. I was like, yeah, it's guys at career averages 11 points again. You know, it's.

It's definitely on the higher end. I do think we're all over looking just a huge. Story here in a huge flying equipment. Shall we? No, even even more dire than the celebrity fandom.

They're kind of shallow made of to. To being and being on TV and stuff. Which by dad by the way. I don't understand. Did they pay for their tickets?

Why do they always rich people get free stuff?

I don't like it.

“Even more dire and Sean, I think you need to be worried.”

You need to be on higher alert. I don't know if you know this. But the calves have won the shock quality battle through three games in this series. Yeah. I think I think you guys are actually on the ropes here.

Yeah. I think if you look at the tracking data. It's neck and neck. But the calves have a slight edge in shock quality. And let me tell you.

I think the league is going to retroactively go back and look at the shock quality and flip the results of these games. And you might be down to one tomorrow morning. So I wouldn't get too excited about the finals just yet. Or the captain. Just kidding.

Just saving three out. Sean, don't don't get comfy. I did see that interview with Kenny. I think since today, which was very amusing. Let's just say it's been passed around amongst Nick Nick's fans.

Listen, are you scared? Sean, are you scared? But what did the four games portend because of this? I don't what I don't want is to say something stupid. And then all of a sudden this series is three three.

And I'm getting clipped by like calves busting genius.

I. I'm very excited about how well they played. And you know what? As a as a door. Who looks at exit.

Velo and hard hit rate and base. All like that. I do like trick myself in a thinking that that should matters. But like look, the calves just haven't been able to hit 3s in this series. But also the next play great defense.

So both things can be true. Look, if you played those games, 150,000 times. It might be a different result. Unfortunately, Sean, this is the result that actually matters. And it's real.

“And the the fact is, is the Timothy shell.”

It was court side for two of those games. So maybe he's in Donovan Mitchell's head. Have we considered that? Maybe he's in James Harden's head. Very possible.

Here's the other thing. The game for his already over because there was a play at the end of game three that made me convince the next. My sweet. That Jalen Brutz and hesitation lay up. When all five calves just decided they were going to move anywhere.

That's the kind of thing that happens when you're going home in two days. I think they can come back from that. They kind of quit. They kind of quit. It's a quitting is what was going on.

Yeah. And I think the next can smell it and the next. And in Sean went, this is the prologue of my book, the secret. The next part of the problem that they're in the season is everybody was having a sacrifice stuff. And there were all these different times when people didn't see that happy about the sacrificing.

Those guys are all locked in now. I don't know how it happened over these last 10 games, but it happened. And that's the great thing about sports when you watch it happen in real time.

“I think obviously OG was unstoppable until he got injured.”

But the secret is what you already talked about,

which is that bridges shooting 75% from the field and being back to that mid range guy. And also being really comfortable as basically the second option offensively. Yeah. It has just totally transformed the offense for them. The early story was cat being point cat.

But that has kind of moved out recently. And bridges just having much more usage in the offense. Makes them way more dynamic and scary. I mean, they're going to match up totally differently though, with either of the two teams in the West, assuming they go forward.

It's going to be a different looking offense. And it's going to be harder. I think for Bronson to get some of those baskets that he's been getting in the last two series. But I have to enjoy this. I mean, it's 53 years since the nicks have won a title.

It's 27 years since they've been in the NBA finals. It's 40 years since a team that I root for the three major sports has won a title. 40 years. Like this is very rare. And it's extremely rare to watch a team that I care about.

Just mother fuck teams.

I mean, it's just amazing how they're just dominating for the last three weeks.

And so I'm such an embittered and cynical sports fan. Like I really just got to look myself in the mirror and be like, "Have some gratitude. You asshole." Because this is super special. I got this email from UVOL and Israel.

And I read it to you. I remember the maps were two two in the first round against the brand and right blazers. And people were saying, "Dark is choking again." That was before the 2011 maps had one of the most beloved championship runs ever. Something clicked. They went on this crazy one.

When ten won the rest of the way in the West, almost every maps were at a moment. Paraya, Chandler, Pasia, even Dishon, Stevenson. They'd be the villains of the league that he without home court. The nicks have a chance to do something similar if they take out OKC.

If they actually win it, will this championship be as universally beloved as the 2011 maps run. This is an interesting one because it's a New York team. Right? Dallas, everybody loved Dark. Including Zaclo.

Everybody had kind of given up on him having a moment like that. And then he just fucking went clenched with on the 2011 playoffs. And series by series just took people out. And then they took out this heat team that everybody was annoyed by. Zac, do you see the parallels?

If it was OKC, they're in this whole flop thing. At this moment, they're having the back to back. And then this nicks team that comes out of nowhere.

“Do you think it would be as beloved as that maps title?”

Well, it's interesting you asked that because I saw Ethan Strauss,

right, this column this week about like basically why is this not a bigger story.

That this team and the biggest city and the biggest market is doing this. And I'm like, maybe I'd just live in the wrong place. It's like the defining story of my life. It's like it's a massive story. What do you think for hours a day?

So I think it could be. I mean, they're like the nicks don't have a Dirk who's like been just beaten down and been close to the mountaintop and shut off. And it's like entering the back and eye of his career. And this might be his last chance.

And that was also a collection of vets. But prints and is as like the small guy underdog and small guys aren't supposed to win titles. No, I'm just giving you the I'm giving you the counters before I hammer it. And the other counter is like there are just some some people who don't like New York City and don't like New York and it's too big and all the famous people. I think it would be.

And it may depend a little bit on who they play in the finals because the thunder have a whiff of. A different kind of villainousness to them. And at least in the way they're perceived around the league, that the same is that my amputeem. But yeah, like there are just some parts of the country, parts fans and parts of the country. Hey, hey, New York and like all boy the big bad nicks and we have to listen to everyone talk about New York and the Yankees.

I'll probably win the world series and we'll do it all again. Well, that would be terrible.

“But I think I think I think the nicks are their own unique thing in New York City because of the sport.”

It's the city's game. They're the city's team and it's been so goddamn long that I think it would be as rapturous as the bads one. I think there's one other components of this too, which is if this had happened last season, it might have felt a little bit different. Because it would have felt like they were vanquishing teams that they had not beaten before. So obviously that Boston series Sorry Bill was like euphoric for nicks fans because we were underdogs in that series for real. That was a really triumphant series win and then they got their their hearts ripped out and game one of the pacer series.

And that series was effectively over and obviously the pacer's have given the nicks fits over the years and the playoffs. And so if they had gone to the finals after that run, it would have felt different than this where they're basically dispatching a bunch of teams that they've already beaten before. You know, the nicks have three years ago beat the calves and the playoffs. The nicks two years ago beat the sixers in the playoffs. Both of those teams were seated lower than the nicks are it doesn't feel like as triumphant and stunning.

A run to the finals and so maybe that's part of the reason why it's not getting these incredible national headlines.

Also at the very beginning of this season, I think most. Pondits felt like the nicks were the most talented team in the conference and probably should be at least in the eastern conference finals. In fact, the nicks owner basically set a mandate for Mike Brown and the team that they had to make the finals that the expectation was the NBA finals. So they're it's not pretty ordained per se, but this has just been talked about for 16 months as a possibility.

“So it doesn't feel as stunningly special and also I think it's acts right that.”

The New York teams are just hated like the nicks are kind of a fumbling franchise over the last half century, but they're just not beloved and whatever success. Whatever success they have had, especially in the 90s was for kind of like brute force unlikable style of play. And so I think for older fans that's also burned into their brains is like, this isn't a team that I love watching. This team though, this season, I mean, this playoffs, they've been a lot of fun to watch. I think offensively they're they're pretty exciting.

Yeah, so Dolan in the 2000s, a 10 out of 10 train wreck, and then the 2010s, a 10 out of 10 train wreck that's 20 years, one fifth of a century. A complete train wreck as an owner. Right before COVID, all star weekend Chicago, I think sack low was there. No, it's late. He skipped it.

I skipped it because I didn't want to get COVID. So now I went, I went to Sundance and all star weekend in the Oscars and over there in COVID. Sean, Sean went one for one.

I went to Sundance and have never been more sick in my life.

So please do in a patient's ear. I got it at the Sloan Conference two weeks later. Yeah, it's not like my discipline sustained. Yeah, so they hire Leon and Wes. Basically three weeks before COVID.

And then post COVID, they've just turned into different franchises and Dolan's been a good owner. Like he's, he's let those guys do their thing. Supposedly he was the one that's like we have to fire tips. You guys are being too loyal to him. He's not good enough.

Get rid of this guy. He's paid for a lot of money. Like it's been impressive. And you think with that with the sphere, which has been like one of the most successful entertainment things that has has launched probably this century.

Dolan's back, man. You got to hand it to him. I made a lot of jokes about him. I made a lot of jokes with my call. I'm an on the pod that you got to hand it to the dude, man.

That's a good job.

“What, like when was he, when did he, when was he originally?”

Go to the point. Don't get here.

I thought, I really thought for a second that you were going to draw some connection from COVID to Dolan.

I was going to get a theory that was going to break me. By screen, we're just going to go black. Like the connection was going to get lost. Well, as Sean knows, I don't really remember anything. From 2020 or 2021.

And there's a chance. All of us are dead right now. And this isn't actually happening with the next possible. I love the idea of this being your projection in the first COVID dream state. Yeah, that's really exciting.

The James Dolan became a good owner. But you got to hand it to a man. He's doing a good job. The new thing's interesting because this is such a beloved team.

I just really respect how they play.

“I think Bronson is just one of the most admirable guys we have in the league.”

But it isn't New York team. And there are a ton of New York fans. And, you know, I don't need to tell you Sean when it's going well for New York fans. They have a way of letting everybody know about that. So I'll be interested to see how everybody handles this over the next four weeks.

I'll just say this is the first public comments.

I'm making since this wind streak started. I've been trying to keep my mouth shut throughout this. It's great. And I don't want to jinx it, and I'm also super grateful. However, like we deserve this.

Come on. 53 years. You deserve it just for the last 20. Yeah, it was the 2000s. We're fucking tough man.

That was a really hard day. Because in addition to being in net on the court, they were entrenched in controversy and scandal nonstop. I mean, it was a very ugly time to be a fan of that team. So this just feels different.

And I've said this to you the last year or so Bill. They're just normal now. They just win like 52 games every year. They have one or two players who are in the conversation for all MBA. They're just like a legitimately good MBA franchise.

The other thing I'll note is that Leon Rose does not speak to the press. Ever, ever. And that is also so strange. And so we don't even really know very much about the architects of his team through this six year period. We just know that they're making the right moves.

And I would say six of the eight big moves that they've made since this new administration came in. When they happened, I was like, that's not a good idea. It was like my old, you know, mixed reflexes kicked in where I was like, trading Randall and Steven Chenzel. I don't get that.

Oh, I hope OG is a good deal. But like he's really injury prone. We're getting older in that deal that doesn't make sense. Oh, we missed out on Katie and Kyrie. And we backfilled as Julius Randall as a free agent.

Oh, four years for Brunson. And that this is at the expense of getting down of in Mitchell. Like all of those times because Nick's fans are so beat up. You could have been like, well, we're going to get the short end of the stick on this one. And every single one worked out even bridges, which that trade was was,

was pilloried as recently as April. Oh, I have about a month ago. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, like, it was like way too many picks.

And now all of the sudden two playoffs in a row were like, nope. He's essential. He might even be the second best player on the team. And that's astonishing.

That's great. Like the fact that all those moves that those guys made worked out.

And they never once got in front of the public.

And we're like, well, we did this. So trust us. They don't say anything. It's crazy. Well, one of the reasons you know they're good is besides Brunson.

The next best three guys in the team of all had moments when they've seen like they're clearly the second best guy in the team. And that's when you know you have a good team.

“I remember doing this in the 2020 for finals with Celtics Dallas when”

Celtics were favored, but maybe not as much as they should have been favored, considering the disparity with the records and stuff. And at some point it just became math. It's like the Celtics have been this team for eight months. This is kind of who they are.

You look at the advanced stats for the playoffs. And the next haven, they're plus 18.5 for 13 playoff games. That's like a small sample size. It's three different series. And it includes them being down to one in the first one.

But they have the second best defensive rating. They have the best offensive rating. And they have the point differential. They have all this messed up in their place.

We've always learned that that should be a bigger factor when you're trying to figure out

what's going to happen than we give a credit for. So I assume if they blow out the caps tomorrow or even just win those numbers are still be pretty good. Do you pay attention to that? Those act those those postseason advanced metrics.

Sure. I mean, again, it's a small sample and it's so important and specific that you know,

“it can be a little you have to be careful.”

But I mean, when you are, I mean, I don't even care what the numbers are. When you're like, I haven't even looked. When you're this dominant and you're winning by this many points every single game. Like I've seen some people who have they played. They played the Hawks who fattened up against all these lottery.

Some pretty good. But didn't didn't hear a lot about that when it was two one Hawks. All they played the sixers who you know, they're injury prone and joyl couldn't sustain. By the way, I do have to give you this as a Celtic person. You got the like the week that the sixers became the full fledgic. Sixers was against you.

Similarly, five seasons ago, you got like the week that the hard in Kyrie Duranets became the full fledgic Duranets. That's awesome. Yeah. I guess you got it. It's true.

But like I don't want to hear about any of this because if you beat three playoff teams by this much this many times, it says something about the group that you're in and all by the way, they were third and offence and seventh and defense in the regular season and seventh and defense with this

They were they were now what they've done in the playoffs is a completely different thing. But they're just a really good team. The caught a couple, a couple small breaks, but everything gets breaks every year. Taidman Halberg and getting hurt. Yanis and bead breaking down.

But I and that's happened. That's that's where Ontario was scheduled year after year. The one real break I thought they caught was Detroit kind of choking at the Detroit deadline not doing anything. Because Detroit was the one team that felt like they like going toe to toe with the next. They really had their number during the regular season.

And he's like why didn't they get the extra guy and if I'm going to try fan I'm going crazy right now that we're not in the eastern finals see I. I get it. Um. Three O Detroit in the regular season. I was I would have picked the next in six.

Maximum the next to without even thinking that hard about it. And I would not have thrown away the regular season stuff, but I just would not have read too much into it.

“And I think the nicks were just qualitatively a better team than Detroit because I've seen a lot of.”

Why Leonard was on the pistons. Well, okay. I mean, I've seen a lot of like all Detroit with that. I don't know. I don't know if they would have got regular season and boy they blew against Cleveland.

I just like I didn't like the way they're playing in the play also like the way the nicks are playing in the play also. I don't read too much into those games. Um. I guess you can't get too comfortable because analytically you're losing to the one. Yeah.

That's going to be the feel really bad when when they when they sweep. And they lost it. They've lost three games to one analytically. I don't know. I know you're going to sleep tonight, man. This like.

You don't understand the munch on sad.

He he goes to can for the first time ever.

He's there for like a week and a half as that's happening the nicks go on the fucking all time. Peter. It's like worm at the chest of field just whip whip in the Russians for 24. Stayed hours. Yeah, but they're not cheating.

That's the thing to remember it. No panic work. No dealing from the bottom of the deck. I wish the match would cheat by the way, Sean. And as long as you're all I'm in for anything.

“Don't get me started to go get me started out in the back.”

Whatever you got to do because I, you know, I will burn the franchise to the ground. Whatever the nicks are doing, the meds need to drink some of that juice because what the fuck dude. Like absolutely.

Guys complain about baseball when my. My owner has just thrown away baseball on Boston. All right, fair. We we traded a possible SI young guy this year for a guy of city 161. You have any got you like three titles.

Yeah, and then he's like he's four. Four. Four. And then he's like, you guys should be more appreciative. I should be able to do it.

I want. I mean, he's right. I don't none of us feel that way. Just tell the team. The methods are way more embarrassing.

First of all, they have in 140 years.

Second of all, they spend 400 million dollars on their payroll.

And they have the worst offense in the sport. I want to jump off a building thinking about them. It's insane. Thank God for the nicks. Thank God.

But like if you spent money like that and basketball, your team would be good. You would just that would just be new have really good players. And baseball, you can spend money on a shed. And then he could just immediately turn into the worst short step of the National League. He makes 42 million dollars a year.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I said, why would you bring this up? You know why brought it up? You know why I brought it up?

Because I spent part of the day with my daughter who's now a big match family. We went shopping together. And she said, a meds plane is Saturday. Let's check the score. And it was seven thinning. This is where the freaking mall.

We're at the Stanford mall on a Sunday. This is my life for mom. They speak my, my hate a place. Checking the meds score seven thinning.

And I said to her, you'll never guess how many of the met runs the meds have in the seven thinning.

It's zero zero. And we drove home. We drove home. Listen, you did the game on the radio. Bottom of the ninth.

Marlins are up. We pull into the driveway. Guys are on base. We turn on the TV. And airbender gives up a fucking walk off grand slam right in our face. That's why I've brought it up.

Because I had a day with it. I want to hear a little bit more about bills. Hey, day place. The Stanford mall. What went down there?

Here is the highlight. First of all, stay from me. I was unbelievable. But one summer, Woody Allen was filming scenes from a mall. From all, yeah.

With Batman there. And they were just there. And they were directed by Thomas Dursky. Sometimes they're on the top floor. And it was just such a big deal for the mall.

“Did you do approach Woody and say I love your work?”

Thanks for everything. Okay. I did an approach with you. I did a great ANW. That could be a really early friend of the ANW.

You could do it. You could do it. You could do it. You could do it. Sam Goodie, an ANW or right next to each other.

You could get seven floor. You could get some CDs and go get some curly fries. We had a Walden books. Two times. Yeah.

You guys are getting into trouble. Couple of camps hanging on Stanford mall. Yeah. I thought I took her bare floats. One of my great cinematic memories.

Sean Finnissie of the Big Picture is waiting in line for two and a half hours for the opening night of 1989's Batman at the Stanford Mall. That's how big that movie was.

That's beautiful. I saw a lot of great ones.

“I don't know if they have a movie theater there anymore.”

Is the mall still nice? It still looks the same. A lot of the stores are closed.

A lot of them have become arcades basically.

And one of the anchor stores. I don't know where I think it might be. Sacks has become the allegedly the nation's largest pickleball facility. Sam. Oh my god.

That's the worst thing I've ever heard. That's like this guy who bought the trailblazers is like the biggest investor in pickleball. Can I tell you a pickleball story? Yeah. Yeah, God.

Game two nicks. A team official who's so not be named, says hi to me. Introduces me to a guy who knows Joe House. So I know Joe House. Sam is a good starter.

I think his name is Sam Porter. And he is the owner or founder or something of the biggest professional pickleball league. And he looks me straight in the eye and he said, I really, I really like what you guys do on the NBA podcast. You and Bill have great chemistry, I can't listen as much anymore. And I said, why is like, I can't take Bill's slander on pickleball.

It's just too much. I can't do it.

So you've lost the listener because of your anti pickleball takes.

I'll be on the right side of history. If we lose a couple of listers around the way, it's fine. Pickle boss sucks. What was the best movie you saw, Cancia? Well, club kid stars Jordan Firstman who is Rachel Senate's friend from the TV show I love L.A.

Says directorial debut. He plays a guy who's a club promoter near city who wakes up one day and he's in his 30s and he has no money and no insurance and nothing to show for it. And 10 year old kid shows up on his front door and is like, you're my dad.

“And he's like, what the fuck are you talking about?”

Because Jordan Firstman's character is gay in the film. And it was funny and heartwarming and like old fashioned and beautiful. And I was like, this is like a Barry Levinson movie or like it was a kind of like big daddy. If you had him stand there movie. And honestly stole my heart.

I had a great time watching it. Didn't expect it. It was great. So it's like gay cream reverses creamer across with big daddy. Exactly.

That's exactly what it is. Good idea. Yeah. And it's funny and sweet and excellent. Zack did Sean's projections newsletter about movies.

Daddy launched a couple of weeks ago. Get your get your juices water to maybe start your own version. I was an employee type thing. I was subscriber. It's it's been a idea of been kicking around.

I'm a little scared. I forgot how to do it. I will say I was doing a chat on on on on the on the sub stack. And yeah. Literally someone asked me.

I signed up for for your thing. I'm really glad you're here. But I really need you to get both Zack and Bill writing again. It's really important to me. And I said I'm doing my best.

So Bill can't just pass the book to Zack. It goes to you too. I sent like a 180 word text today. That's got me going. Just what was it about?

Cameron the two fingers get going. What was it about? I don't know. Something of is about graduation plans. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that's like exactly like writing about the NBA. But it's a story. Yeah. I mean, my daughter's been home for the last two weeks.

And you guys have younger daughters than my daughter. And she's 21 now and we go out. And she can't wait to get carded in order to drink. And just let you know what's coming for you guys down the road. Feel very far away from that.

Yeah. Yeah. They get think just the happiness and their eyes as they're Hanging their real driver's license to a bartender or a waiter. Kind of like the look in your eyes right now, Sean, about the next.

My version of getting carded with my daughter is when she's like dad Take out your credit cards. So you can buy me this. There it is. Which is something I'm becoming more and more familiar with.

All right, you can listen to Sean on the big picture. You can listen to Zach on the Zach low show. Which should be going. You'll potentially be a game five, right? If Cleveland somehow comes back and wins one.

“Honestly, I just forgot that there could be a game five to be honest.”

I feel like yes. I would be there if it exists. I honestly think it's a wrap.

And I think there's going to be 30 to 40 percent.

Nick's fans there tomorrow would be my other prediction. Can't believe this is happening. This is unbelievable. Her there can't get court sides if you're next fan, like it'll get on the ticket sites. It'll just reject you if you're not from.

Wait. What does it like they'll forcibly remove you from just like they'll just reset your order. But they make room for celebrities like Taylor Swift and Travis Kielsey. Well, we're going to have some celebs at the game tomorrow. But I don't think they'll make court side.

Sean, good luck. Congratulations. Some glad things have turned around for you. Bill, thanks for inviting me. Well, I deserve at least one goddamn thing in this life.

So thank you. Yeah, after the six time Brady Super Bowl, you deserve some. All right, settle down. That's another thing that's happening for you.

This is almost like another win for you.

“With respect, he's been an absolute weird over 20 years.”

Exactly. Thanks as always. Good to see you.

I'll see you next Sunday.

“Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo and Jack Wilson and Chris as well.”

That's it for us on Netflix. I'll be back on Tuesday. Don't forget tomorrow.

Animal House on the rewatchables.

Thanks everybody.

“Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino.”

Or 18 plus and present in DC. Kentucky or well. And give him a problem. Call 100, 100, 100. My reset.

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