The Knicks Land a Haymaker, With Doc Rivers. Plus, a Mini-Mailbag, the End of 'Euphoria,' and a Movies Resurgence With Joanna Robinson and Chris Ryan.

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Dr. Rivers is here after just an incredible dramatic, wasn't it a best play game?

The stats weren't awesome, but a lot of twists and turns, the next pull it out. And I think we thought the same thing with about three, four minutes left. One team looked like they kind of knew what they were doing and the other team looked like the playoff experience youth stuff was starting to creep in. I didn't like the shots I got. I just didn't like anything. And the next just went into next book.

Yeah, I don't know, though, Bill Rivers used as far as I ended a game. I would say there's that to end a game, if you told anyone, at least me, before the game, it's going to come down to a single possession game. You're going to favor the next because you know exactly what they're doing. They're giving them all to Bronson and they're going to play all Bronson, San Antonio in any game down the stretch. And that's sure yet because that's

where they are young. They haven't. The two-man game with Fox and Wimbie is usually the play. They actually ran it. Fox got a wide open shot that would have tied the game

“if you remember. And he missed that shot and then he followed up with a foul on, I think”

he bridges where Bronson had nothing. So the back-to-back plays. There were three plays that changed the game to me. The office of Briebound, then Bronson got and then got to three. The missed shot by Fox where he would have tied the game up. Then Fox followed that up where he billed Bronson out with a foul. That's a seven-point swing in a game. And San Antonio couldn't recover. And then the turnover by Wimbie was the final there.

And then Bronson with the Mumball. Yeah. So San Antonio takes the lead 95-94 and the two Wimbie free throws. And then that whole sequence happens. Yeah. Fox, Fox made that shot in game seven and it's okay. See, in this game, I think him and Wimbie combined were seven for 27. Not great. Well, Fox is one of the most clutch players in the NBA over the last three years down the stretch of the game. He really hasn't been other than game seven Oklahoma.

That's their go-to play. And you know, we know what the next is going to do. And we pretty

“much know what San Antonio is going to do there and go to the two-man game. Remember,”

they lost that game, the Oklahoma where Fox went there. They didn't have anything down the stretch to go to. When they went to it, Fox got his shot. Like, in the pain, perfect look for him, misses it. And the next is going to play Bronson ball from there on. So I just think it came down the little things. A couple things I was surprised by. And I was wrong by I was really surprised by Wimbie guarding towns to start the game. I was shocked by that. I was

positive that Wimbie would be on heart. Camping champagne or anyone else would be on towns. And the reason is that allows Wimbie to stay in the paint more. If you look at the beginning

of the third quarter, the spurs did that. And I actually turned to my son Spencer and I

along." But instead, they waited until the second half. And it had some impact. They got

out to a quickly to begin to go to the third. They really never went back to that coverage.

“You know, and heart didn't play as normal big minutes. I think you play 26, 27 minutes.”

So my brown, I got to tell you coaches, but off tonight, he really did that. I never also thought that Wimbie would be guarded by current in the town. I thought it would be. Yeah, there you thought it would be a foul machine. Well, I thought it would be fouls. And I thought it'd be in a noobie. And then nobody, I think this year has the best plus minus in the NBA versus Wimbie defensively. So they would go to that. And they never even went

back to it. So when you look at the next, they still have bad in their back to go to. I thought current in the town played a game of his life. He was, he was amazing. You know, my son, Spencer, turned to me and said, "Wow, Minnesota traded current on the new town." And you know, last year, no one was actually saying that, you know, because

Carl was up and down, but I tell you, man, second half of this season, he's been absolutely

unbelievable. And again, my brown has put him in a rice spot to be successful when you got to give him a lot of credit. Yeah, I had three heroes. Brunson, obviously, I think he had 19 in the second half. Hart had 15 rebounds in six to six and 26 minutes. And then I thought towns took it to Wimbie. I thought it was a stalemate at worse between them, that's just statistically, but didn't seem afraid of them. Went by him a bunch of times.

That was the big thing. I had the numbers wrong on Wimbie and Fox. They were 9 for 34 combined. And Sanitone only had two, three in the second half. And they didn't shoot. Well, we'll go into some of the stuff they can do. We can't lose sight of the biggest moment of this game that happened in the second quarter when somebody, I forget who it was, crashed into Brunson's knee. It looked bad. Yeah, I look bad. You know, I didn't think it was bad

honestly when I saw it. I thought it hurt. And you know what I mean by that? I thought that was a scare because it's needing to go all the way in. So I honestly, I was sitting there and I said, he's okay. He just scared to hell a lot of them. Then he didn't seem

“okay. Every Nick's fan of my life is like, are you serious? We just went a little bit”

in the row. We're in the finals. This is our guy. He's going to get hurt in the first half of a game. He goes into the tunnel. And it's just pure panic. And then in an hour and half it flips and he's the hero of the game. Yeah. Exactly. Get stepped on. I mean, this way. He's just so tough. The movie made late where he took the hit, got buffed. He said Antonio credit. They did it all. The entire Oklahoma series where they stayed down. They take the buff. And

then you have to try to play through that. And Brunson makes that shot. It just was a perfect moment for Brunson. Well, explain this to me with Brunson. SGA looks on comfortable against the spurs team and all the guards. And Brunson looked like within a half he had solved it in the second half. And he was getting, I actually thought he could add more points. He missed a couple shots that he usually made. Is it because that the next half better three point shooting or

better space? Like, what is it? What was the difference to them in Oklahoma? You just hit all one thing. They have way better spacing. All right. So, and they do a great job with their cuts in their spacing. That's number one. Number two, there was one time where he got in the paint and you could see when being wanted to help. But currently, it's how it kind of floats out to the corner to the three. Well, in the Oklahoma series, when we got to stay in the

paint, he really never left the paint. It's almost like they decided if it grew so in those

guys could make enough threes, we'll lose a game. We don't think they can. And they were right at the end of the day. So, barely because Kuroso Wallace made like half the corner three, he's ultimately did a matter because Chet did a mega anything. Yeah, and Kuroso was amazing in that series. And so, you know, in the year first of all, the one thing you got to give her, he knows the four of the game that that's who they are going to put them on or they're

“going to try to help off of him. He is a great cutter. He's always in a dunker spot. And that's why”

me of Rondo in rebounding. You know, yeah. Yeah, when we put Rondo in the dunker spot at time, why? Because when he didn't have the ball, if you didn't guard him, he rebounded the ball. And it allowed Rondo to have a free run at the glass. If you watch hard, there's no one blocking them out. And you just go on to rebound. He has a free lane right to go rebound because no one's guarding him. And he takes advantage of it. He's one of the great rebounders in our league at his

size. Well, and then on the flip side, Vaselle, Champagne, Harper, and Castle. I think they had like 30

offensive rebounds. And really it came down. They just couldn't make shots. And if I'm, I actually they had two time outs with like three minutes left. Yeah. We both had the same thought of like, they don't look right. Feels like this is spent maybe like reset this. When we look tired,

I don't know if he shot his bottom and first half or what happened. But I don't know what the answer

is. Yeah. We're taking the first half. When do you look sped up tonight? It looks like

“there's speed them up tonight. I think he had six or seven turnovers bill. A lot of them were”

putting the ball on the floor. I would know, you know, we have all kinds of stats and a little costat with a team. And one of the things I would look at first is how many dribbles did he have. I know that sounds crazy. But it felt like he dribbled the ball way more than usual. The other thing is time of possession, how often did he hold the ball and have the ball in his hands? It looked like way more than usual. And so I think that played right into the next hands. I think

they would take that. Harper was phenomenal to me. He played great, played normal. It's funny.

He just knows how to play it. And nothing kind of affects him. The two other guards, the three

guards from Senator didn't have their best game. That's going to happen. That could be first game, jitters. That could be all kinds of things. They'll play better. But the next will play better, too. I thought I had an anoby down the stretch. He started playing well. But I thought he was struggling most of the game. He knows save the bench. The game with the nicks at a bench. That little sucker Amarado. In the first half, he had really big many players. And Sam, you know, I'm just,

yeah, I mean, I'm, I coach Sam. And I'm just so proud of him. And by the way, he plays it out. Like you could even keep Sam on the floor five years ago, three years ago, defensively he couldn't guard anybody. And that kid has worked his tail off. And he, he could

eat defensively. And the other thing now is he's always been a great shooter. But if he missed a

couple, he would never keep shooting. And now he does. That's maturity. That's growing up. That's going through all the stuff. And he's doing that. I thought their bitch gave them a huge lift tonight. He was out there with like four minutes left in the Bridges fight. And then they brought Bridges back. And but I was surprised how late he was in the game. Yeah. So Bridges will play better. He didn't have a great game offensively. But I thought Bridges had a phenomenal game

defensively. You know, it's so funny. The Bridges gets so much criticism. But he does so many things. And it, you know, everyone just equates scoring to if you played well. And we all know there's so many other things you can do in Bridges does those things every night. Yeah. If I'm Wendy, what are my learning from that game? Patience, you know, to me, he Temple thought he went too quick at times. I think they're going to put him on a post a little bit more, but not much more. The two men

game with him and Fox. There's something there. They just didn't get anything out of it. The 45 set

“which we, I think we started it when I was with the clippers with Chris Paul, you remember.”

That's what the 45 said actually came from. They are the best that I've ever seen in it. And then what the 45 set is the 45 set is the the four and the five and usually they use a guard way of top that double flat screen where guard goes downhill, win be rose, shooter in the back side, shooter in the corner. They run it as well as anybody I've ever seen. And they ran it three or four times early in the game and it was successful and they got away from it. So you're going to see that

way more than the next in game on the game to one Friday. I wonder what they do about Harper because I thought I actually thought he was the best player in that game. They took about the little over four minutes left when it was close. And then they lost the lead and I didn't really like, you know, any of the offense they had except for that Fox nine footer that he missed. But I wonder if Harper, I wonder if he is reach a point where you can't take them off. Well, he just has the finish

games for you because he can create his own shot. He came, but the other guards cannot as well.

“I have to say that. I think there's going to be gain for us going to come down between him and”

championing. You know, the other guards because of their defense, their rebounding, their athleticism, you keep them on the floor, but that makes them really small. That's one of the things I kept saying, Bill, until we do this, the nicks are big. They're big. They're big at every spot. I guess Bronson is considered small, but we call him big buddy, Bronson are ways like a five. And in the obvious huge bridges is long. Towns is long. They're big basketball team. And so

even though the spurs guards are way better than I thought they would on the offensive class, I think size matters. It does when victory is around, and it also does because of all the

was going into that game? Because it felt like they wanted to turn into a track meet early and kind of discombobulate the spurs and knock them out, or whatever, whether they were in the last game. And then I thought down the stretch, you could see it would down the spurs, and it felt like the nicks were like gaining strength almost. And do you think that's the strategy? Yeah, I do.

“I think it's funny. I heard people say to have time slow it down, and I said, don't slow it's”

came down. This is great for the nicks. The one thing they were doing, they're trying to get up to floor before we make it get there. They're they're trying to do the same thing Oklahoma tried, except for Oklahoma losing their ball hemmers. All they have was Shay left. You know, but the nicks, they pass the ball forward. They attack early. They spread the floor. And it also didn't allow Wimmy to get into his spot. Wimmy loves being in the dunkers

but defensively. But when they go in transition early and early attack, you saw Wimmy out by the 3.9 a lot tonight. San Antonio cannot like that. So that absolutely was part of their game plan. I had a bunch of nicks fans in my life who were texting me during the game being like, I liked Wimmy until tonight. Now, I hate his guts. I'm tired of this. He's flopping around like he gets every call. It's so funny how you

root against the guy for an hour. And you're like, I'm out. I hate this guy. Yeah, well, everyone

“flops around now. Yeah, it's just so funny. I think it was castle they asked him and they're trying”

to get him to say something about Shay. They looked at the guy says, everyone flops. That's just, you know, it's funny. It's not taught. It's players work on it. But it's not taught. Really, players just work on it. I thought Bronson flopped and tucked her onto the town. So I've barely been as much as Wimmy did. Yeah. But that's just part of the game. I like it. We're getting a lot of animosity. I love that. Yeah. With the town thing, you said that at the top about how

Minnesota traded him. With that said, I'd never ever in a million years thought that he had this

in him. And he's been doing it now for a month, right? The way he played today, there's almost like a cerebralness about what he's doing offensively. He's kind of staying away from the dump house for the most part. Like some of this stuff, like the quick attacks on Wimmy is exactly it through like before Wimmy gets said he was just trying to beat him and he was physical with him and playing. I just loved how he played. He's playing smart. He's not losing his composure.

Those are things that he always would do in the past. He's staying on a file trouble. He may be their best password at times. And the biggest thing he's doing that when he talks about, this is rebounding. He's a great rebounder, a great rebound, a great offensive rebounder. So he's done a lot of things that we didn't know he can ever do. And the other thing is, and I've said, I've said this since we've won in 2008. Bill, when you hear about teams and they all say it, you improve each

round. And teams that don't go deep, never understand that players who have never gone deep,

they never understand. It's not necessarily individual improvement. It's team improvement. And the next in the first round may have been, you could say, maybe getable. In the second round, you know, they got it going. That's that Atlanta meeting and whatever they had, they have come together. Like when you watched them play, there was a time out in this game where you heard

“Karan from the Italians talking. I saw that. That was a live book. That's what a six weeks ago.”

He wouldn't have said it in no one would have listened. You know, but that's part of the growth that teams go through each round. You get better. You get closer. You trust more. You let go of all the individual crap. You know, all the numbers chasing and you just start playing.

Yeah, and you played a right way. Everado. But I always love everado in this example.

He comes from New Orleans where he played a ton of minutes. And now, he played two minutes, five minutes, six minutes, ten minutes, 20 minutes. He doesn't care. He just wants to help the team win. And you can see that throughout the nickname, you can see that throughout the first state. These are two teams that have grown each round. And they have, they both have come to this like team unity thing. And it's really helped the next. Because we never thought the niche could

get there. But they're there. They are absolutely there. I forgot to say that the segment is brought to you by new era, which makes a bunch of great caps, all kinds of things. So that way you just mentioned about the selflessness. I remember we did a podcast during the 24 finals. We were talking about the Celtics when they were, I think they had on Gabe 3 against Dallas. And you were excited about it because you were like, I see it. They get it. They understand what this last level is about.

whatever it takes. You don't care about your minutes. You don't look at the stat sheet. It feels like the mix of gotten there. And I thought, I thought San Antonio was going to win this series. And maybe they just sucked tonight. Maybe they will. But the fact that the next way, able to carry that three rounds in theory of competition to now this stage tonight. And it's the same thing. It gives you hope if you're a next band I would say. Well, this is, I've been asked

because I'm always asked who's going to win the series. And today I was golfing. I bet I was asked

it 50 times bill. And my same answer is, I don't know. This one, usually you kind of have a, this one is too close to call. And, you know, if you're a Nick Van, you feel great. Obviously, the big thing is if they do lose another game, what they come back with the next game, you know. And, you know, now game 2 is the biggest game of the finals for San Antonio. They can't go down 02. They just can't. I guess they can. We've seen teams come back. But,

yeah, it's just so interesting. Yeah, this, they're not a guard play. It's the guard play. That's the key for San Antonio. They did not have great guard play. And their guards have been dominant in the playoffs. They've been dominant. They didn't, they usually have a big guard play by one or two. And then maybe two, no, older guards didn't play with other than Harper. Harper was the only guard that played great to that. I thought one of the things they weren't really 100% doing tonight

was just attacking the rim all the time, which is what they learned to do against OKC. Scott, don't, don't even think twice. Just go, go, go, go, go, attack. Bigger guys, I bet if you sit back and count

“the drives that they were bumped off on. Like, it was amazing. Even Brunson had one. I think Fox”

had them beat, but he bumped them off half. And it nobody does it as better as as good as anyone. Bridges does. Heart is phenomenal at it. Yeah, they took a lot of the hits from San Antonio and kind of feared them outside to the paint. I thought that was really affected by the, I thought in the Europe's penetration defense was phenomenal. I thought they guarded the ball and took hits, held their brown, didn't back up, didn't flop, defensively. They held their brown

the night and their size matter again. When you played them this season, did you see this in them? No, no. I did say early, they're the best team in the East when you go individual. Just, right, if you count. Yeah, you just count of the numbers. It's all best team in the East. And going into the playoffs, I did pick them to win the East before the playoffs started. But I just thought they would out talent people. They're out teaming people now.

And when you put that talent together and now the way they're playing, they're a really good basketball team. And they're hard to beat. Yeah, because I remember when this happened with the OAD Celtics,

now granted, they won way more regular season games. But then the first two rounds were choppy

two seven game series. And then it really wasn't until near the end of the trade series.

“And then you could see something shifted. Yeah. You remember that? Like what game was that when it just”

like just something was different? I thought it was a game in Detroit. After we lost, you remember we lost our first home game was against the pistons. Yeah. And I think it was game two. And we went right back in Detroit and won. I thought from that point on, we were, we had, you know, the May, you know, I love using that term. Like, and, you know, Godfather, we were made finally. Like this team is, I thought that team played together all the time.

But you remember going into playoffs and made that comment? I'm really worried. We haven't not been tested. We had lost two games in a row all year. Yeah. We had, we hadn't gone through anything and it just felt too easy. And that really concerned me. And so, those two games said, and let a game seven went much of a game. But that Cleveland game seven. That kind of made us and did the turnaround and then Detroit, the defending champs come in and

they pop us right away. And we have to respond. I thought those are the things. And the nicks have been going through stuff all year. So they're different. They're going through all stuff all year, turmoil, chemistry problems, rural problems, guys were unhappy. They get to the first trial. A lot of that is still going on. Atlanta takes it to them. They have been meeting

and it all goes away. Since then, they've been playing right throughout. And it's been amazing

“to watch. So is that the first recorded meeting and NBA history that actually worked?”

Yeah, actually worked. Yeah, because I don't think it was a call of meeting like, you know, it just, from what I hear, the meeting just kind of happened. It wasn't one of those things like, we're going to have a player meeting. Which every coach is like, oh, god. Oh, yeah, a coach.

I've been a player in these meetings. And I've been a coach in these meetings. And a lot of them go haywire. I was in San Antonio as a player. And some of, we were down 02 to the Houston

“Rockets, right, way back in the Western finals. And I think it was David Robinson or Summono,”

or Moses Malone, I'm going to use him because there was all kinds of stuff in this meeting. The first part of the meeting, Break Pop Vitches talk and that Bob Hills our coach. And Dennis Rodman, when pop finishes, Dennis Rodman says, well, who's listening to you? You're not to coach. This is this is the meeting. Yeah. And pop goes back at Dennis. Then Moses starts talking and every Johnson, Moses, I love you. But your time is passed. And when that,

when that going to reach a press club, and say, anymore. Yeah. Then, every goes after David Robinson, I mean, the meeting was a disaster. It was a disaster. I haven't said that. We didn't go to the Houston

and win Game 3 and boy. So they just never know. But so when you have those meetings, most of the

time, it's guys screaming at each other and very rarely does a turn into a very productive group therapy session like at an Apple TV show or something. Well, sometimes, sometimes you have phenomenal meetings. I will say there's been some good ones. But they're probably at some point a player, you didn't expect to say something, say something. The piss is all the entire locker room or another player. Now the two guys got to be in the fall in the park. That's what happens. It happens a lot.

Yeah. So when they were trying to put together, I talked about this a few pods ago, like Wesley and Leon trying to put this team together. And the motto is the O4 Pistence, where it's like, we don't, we're not going to look into a top three lottery pick. But we can kind of smartly,

we can build around Brunson. He can be like our bill up, basically. And we could just kind of patch

together different guys and love wings that can play defense and towns will be our big guy. Do you see that when you watch them? Do you see the comparison? I mean, they're completely different. I know. But the two different teams, because that person's team, anyone could have a big night.

“If you remember that, where, well, for the most part Brunson is, they're going to die.”

You know, 31 shots in it. Yeah. He's the guy and Detroit played more team ball more movement. So different team, Detroit was probably was a way better defensive team. I think New York's better offensive team in some ways. But listen, when you look at the two teams,

two teams couldn't be built any differently. The spurs have done it basically through the

draft. The fox is the only guy that you can make a case that they traded for. They decide some some low budget free agencies that have turned out great. Yeah. But other than that, it's been fox, right? Yeah. Where the next, I asked my son, Spencer, who on a next team was drafted by the next dead place. There's only one. It's Mitchell Robinson, right? That's it. Yeah. Everybody else, they traded for. They signed in free agency. So you got to give Lee on those guys a lot of credit.

They got their right pieces. They did, I thought the villain over thing was smart. Yeah. People want to knock it out because it did create a team. It did create unity. And that was good. No one, and I don't care if Leon or anything on no one thought Bruston would be this good. And I really liked him. You know, because people forget what he did to feed it. Yeah. In that series, like, it was, it wasn't just the Lucas show. It was a Luca Brunson show.

And he did to Utah too for a couple of games. He did that moments. Well, the Utah series, remember, I think Luca misses the game. He does. And he just takes over. So he's so that he could do it. No one thought he could do it full time every night and be this clutch. Yeah. So give me your credit. They signed him. What I think they did better is once they realized what they had, they built around it. And I don't want to take shots in anybody, but I will say this.

They are a lot of front office guys. They can go out and get the stars. There's very few of them

“to then build the team into a championship team. That's what you have to do. You can go out and”

get these names. But can you make the other moves? You know, be looking at any age. He's done it a ton. Brad, Brad Stevenson's done it. You know, Sam Prestey. You know, it took him a while. You think about all the talent that Sam Prestey had. And then finally kind of figured it out.

I'm going to go get a cruise. So I got to go get some of these role players because that's what's going to win the game for us. San Antonio, we don't even know who their role players are yet because they're so young. All their guards are so good. We don't even know who can be the next star. Could be Harper. Could be Castle. I mean, there's so many guys. But the next, give them credit. Heart is a role player. That's who he is. He actually knows who he is. Bridges is a role player.

That's who he is. He actually knows he is Robinson's a role player. And then the Carl Anthony Town Street was shoot mungus. And at the time, I don't think anyone knew if it was a good trade or not.

But it's turned out to be the game changer for them. Yeah, that was one of those. It was really

hard to have a hard opinion on that trade. Yeah, you know, you could see it from both sides being a disaster or I just, I remember being like, I understand why they did it. I don't know if I like it. I understand the logic. The logic was perfect. One of them was because the way he shoots they to take a big outside of the pain and let press and work and it give press and more space. Yeah, absolutely is happening. It happened tonight. And they needed a center because the league

barely has any centers. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you talk about the team building part and you just came from Milwaukee. They went the opposite way where they had yannas and they were like, we, we got to get another star for yannas and they traded basically all their future stuff for Dame and try to put them together as as the combo, which I think is the old school model. Do you think like with the way that this new CBA and the second eight for penalties and it feels like the depth

and having a bunch of guys in that like seven to 15 million dollar range is going to be more

“important than that second star. Yeah, I think it depends on who the first star is. You know,”

if you have a shave, if you have a bronzing, you know, you get away with having a lot of other players and you know, whims is better than just a lot of other players. Right. But yeah, maybe two maybe the two guys. Yeah, but just two and a half. Yeah. You know, what we're having in Milwaukee is they got old quick and their star wasn't. You know, he was a young one. Everyone else got old really quickly. You know, I think if they could redo that trade, they still do it, but they would probably keep

true. I thought from what I heard, they didn't they drew and dang could play together and what they realized later is, no, they needed true to protect him, the physically from everybody else. So the thought I'd actually thought was right, the execution of the rest of the part probably didn't work out. Now, moving forward, all these teams have to be very careful. Like if you, if you, you're number one guys, you're number one guy, but you're number two, three, four, five, you

better with the cap and the apron. It's so much harder, Bill. The three, the three star thing is gone. Like we know that, just contractually, you can't do it. The two star thing is still alive. But you can make the case having a superstar, you know, a shape and four really good players

“may be better. Yeah, because the sets are in that situation. Now, it's taking them around. I think”

Tatum has the, the key has the third biggest contract per year next year and Brown has seven,

so two drops seven. I don't know, I don't know how sustainable that is for the rest of the decade. How do you put a team around that, especially when you're watching a series like this, where both teams go nine deep, you know, Kornat who we didn't talk about, he came in at one point. I think Kornat's a good backup center. But now it's on the point. As soon as one becomes out of the game, all the players in the other team are like, just, you could see the hopping their step

that he's gone for four minutes. You know, because there's no play in the history. Maybe we'll back in the day, you know, and I'm being honest and shackled a little bit. But, uh, I mean, listen, when we won't talk to floor, I don't care who you are. I think there's high school kids running, right? When we won't talk to floor in a yelling drive the ball now, right? Do it. Because it was,

“it was so obvious. It's first, I think they get to nine pointly. They suck him out. And it was”

like the niche just attacked the basket immediately. And so yeah, it was 63-50. Yeah. He goes out, and by the time he comes back in at 67-61, the next are back in the game. They're back in the game, and Bronson got it going. Bronson got it. Yeah, so you need it. You had two things going at the same time. You know, it was going, by the way, the, I had multiple Nick fans friends there. They said it was like 15% Nick's fans. It was more than I thought it could be. I was surprised. Yeah, that's

the first game one. Senator, you know, people don't sell tickets. Well, clearly they do. But the

ridiculous speech, you know, after they, after they beat the Celtics about, you know, I'll

pay for the tickets. And the next, it was almost like the Nick fans to that version of it. Right. What, we're going to buy an old arena. I mean, yeah, I was carrying it with the Nick fans and Philadelphia was unbelievable. Yeah, that was crazy. You played for them a long time ago. Yeah, got injured, but you were involved with that team that came the closest they've ever been, and that was 32 years ago. Yeah. But, I should have been active. Well, yeah, you told that story

I don't know the pod that we did about how they should have activated you for the last two rounds.

“Now, this is 53 years. I've been saying, I think this is the biggest title that anybody can have”

right now, unless maybe the bills, but the problem is the next have six generations of fans and

they're the biggest cities. It's not even close. Yeah, no, that sounds funny because we're preparing football and basketball. Yeah. It's like the cubs winning. Yeah. You know, it really is in a lot of ways if the Nixon win this. They've been through, first of all, they went through a lot of bad basketball. It's not like they've been knocking on 20 years ago. Yeah. I mean, they went through a lot of bad basketball. And then they kind of built this team. Leonid, you got to just give them all

the credit in the world. It kind of, you know, him and Wesley, they put this team together piece by piece. And now they're in it and they're going to be in it for a long time. This is not a flu. This seems going to be good. They're going to be good for a long time. Contractually, they're set up really well overall. So yeah, I can't, I can't think of another team with size of city and haven't wanted that this would be any bigger. This, this is this big event. This century Red Sox and Cubs

were the two big ones. Right. That's exactly right. The Red Sox and the Cubs were not too. That they had to remove it from and then they got them. So now it's the next. Well, we talked about the chess match of the series. So the next come out and do two things. Maybe San Antonio wasn't expecting having town's guard Wemby and just playing super fast and seeing that they could discombobulate them.

“So now I think San Antonio is ready for a piece. Okay. All right. So now we go to game two and”

San Antonio is like, okay, they're going to have Wemby do you zag down fear the next? And like, no, actually, I'm not going to have Wemby towns on Wemby this game. I'm going to put OG on them right away. So sometimes you overthink things. Yeah. That's in their back pocket. They still have that. If towns that they got a quick file, I guarantee you they would have switched in and they'll be on them right away. They didn't have to do it. All right. That was one. Two, I would be very

surprised to see Wemby guarding current in any towns. I just think it puts Wemby out of health. And without the help, I think it really hurts San Antonio. It also takes Wemby away from the glass. And so even though towns are a heart will have free run to the glass, you still got a seven, six alien standing in there and just like it every rebound. So I think those are the two biggest

changes that you'll see. I had two mailback questions for you quickly. First one is from Jeremy

in Portland. Is the NBA experiencing the greatest parody era in history of the league? This year will be eight champions and eight years. Half the league will have made the finals in the last 10 years. Do you think this is a fluke? COVID's part of that or do you think this is just what the league is down? I think this is what the league. I think this is what collect the bargaining and what they want. It doesn't allow the big marks to just outspend like the Dodgers. It doesn't allow for that.

Now it's going to come down to my opinion, GMs that know how to build real teams. I really do. I think coaches get fired all the time. I think this is the era of GMs you better do your job. You all got the same type of money. You got to draft right. You have to trade right. And

“more importantly, you have to sign right. I think this is also the era that most stars stay home.”

You're not going to see a whole bunch of movement anymore. So I'm going to be a bunch of guys just leaving their team. I think you'll see more of a star staying at home. Number one, they can make more money. And number two teams can build around them. So it's going to come down to, yeah, we know you can get us Kevin Durant. Well, we know you can get James Hard. But how do you build around that? How do you put enough pieces around that? And so I think that's going to be the biggest change.

And we've been proven once again. Yeah, right. There are no thatestants here. I know that is winning us people. When when I hear people talk well, they just got to win the title. People have no idea of how hard it is to win. Everything has to go right for you. You got to get lucky at times. You got to stay healthy. You got to make big shots. Someone you don't know in your team has to make. And they all have to get along and buy in. It just takes, it takes so much to win.

And that's where I mean by you better build the right guys on that team. And it's got to be

“one through 15. And I think that's the biggest difference.”

Can you, can you talk about how different it is now with all the two ways, guys? And how much has it a bigger roster? How do you manage that? I think that's hurt in some ways. I think the smart teams said a Tonya or give them a, give a great example. Okay. Yeah, they still have all their two way guys, but they thought of a smart enough to get some vets, some older vets on their team, Kornet and Harrison Barnes. Oh, Lenny. Oh, Lenny. That's a smart move.

Now, those could be two ways. And I think a lot of the teams wouldn't sign those guys bill. And those are the teams that aren't winning. I'm telling you, you need a couple of those

guys at the back of your bench. Always sunbossing. We had the stars. And then we have the older guys.

And it kind of boxed in the young guys. They had nowhere to go but to listen. You know, when I think that's really important on team. So, but it's hard. And now you have these two way guys it's making it a league younger and younger and younger. It's what it's doing. I do like it. But if you are one of those teams that have a chance to win, you may have to give up one of those two ways to sign a veteran on your team. A good veteran. Not a guy who just wants to talk and

then can't play and can't do anything. Those guys are important. And all the teams have more than good teams do. Right. That's how the guys like Pat Connetin, Olinic, these guys and Joe Ingalls, these guys hang up hanging around for two extra years because they're not going to be talking to the teammate one, two and three about, oh, I should be playing. Yeah, I don't know why I'm not in. Think about what Charlotte did. Charlotte has had a chemistry, a culture problem.

“They brought it forever forever, right? Yeah. You remember that kind of thing for one day”

and we're back and reciting because they knew he's not going to play, but he's good. Now that doesn't last. That probably won't even last next year. That probably have to go get someone else. But those type of guys are invaluable. Coaches in the old days, you know, when I first started coaching,

you would always put someone into into your bench that you knew had your back. I mean,

we're money Williams when I was in Orlando. I've just assigned my team's, you know, you know, late to his career. But I knew money was going to be loyal. That's what teams coaches did that all the time. That's not as much anymore. You actually need guys that are just great team guys now. I got a lot of emails wondering if the chat home were in series against Wemby had parallels to Ben Simmons in the infamous Atlanta Hawks series. You know,

you know, you know, you need their chats. Fine. Okay. I can make sure. There is no, like he did not want to look at the rim anywhere in game seven. I was getting flashbacks. Yeah, well, first of all, I didn't get in a lot either. Like you're right, you're right. Like he was out. He just was outplayed and it was clear. Like this is why I like Wemby. It was so funny. I love chat too. But this is why I love Wemby. Wemby for whatever reason. He takes chat personal. But yeah,

chat's the greatest guy. And so is Wemby. But you know, Wemby will never, he can't stand them.

Wemby sees him and he goes right after him. And it's so obvious. What you had. That was Zach Randolph and Blake Griffin. Remember? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Same thing. Same thing. Zach ran out for some reason. He hated Blake Griffin. And every time he saw him, he just wanted to go out of. Yeah, and it's so interesting because all, all they did, somebody compared them. Yeah. And for whatever reason,

“Wendy has Michael Jordan. That's what I call Michael Jordan guys. Like, you know, if you”

converted anything to Michael, you had to deal with Michael. And that's what it's. But Wemby, listen, chat's still on an attempt for five best defenders at a side in the league. He's still in all defensive guy. He's going to be a better office of team a player. Oklahoma had two guys out in his series. And they should not over react north, north, north, north, will they? With, unless they got a great deal. That was the last question I had for you from Eli and Chicago

would have been like after Scotty Pippin's migraine game in the 90 Easter conference finals

when the bulls lost to the bad boys, you would have had topics like Ken MJ ridden without a real number two, who can they get for Pippin? You feel fine. Five guys to trust. And I do wonder like this culture we're in now. You know, when we were when you were in the league in the beginning, like magic sucked in the 84 finals, right? Pippin had the migraine game. Like people would were they had the 84 finals when he threw the past the Henderson for the steel and teams were

losing. They would just move on to that idea. Turns the ball over. The game's over. Turns the ball over. The ball flips the series. You know, when we were in the with the clippers, Chris Farhead, two in the worst minutes in the history of the game, right? Again, it's Oklahoma City. Yeah. That game's over with, you know, can you imagine if there was a podcast doing those times? I mean, that's all we were talking about. And all those players found a most far recovered and had gray

careers. You know, Ben Smith would be the exception to the rule. Yeah, because this was they only have one chip in every area of 30 teams. There's going to be some ups and downs. Sometimes it's not going to be your year. You're going to bad luck. You're going to have J. L. Williams get hurt. You're going to have check at psyched out in the series. It's a tough one, though, because they say it's not going to be your year. Right. If you really thought about it,

“like if championship was the only thing, the most of the time it's not going to be your year.”

And a lot of times you go into the season, no one, if that's the bar, this is not our year. Like if you're honest, now when you have a shot at it, then you go at three. I've been fortunate. And I've got some teams that, you know, me can make a case. Had a chance, maybe not when you look back on them. But at least we were trying to get it. But even that, you know, a coach 20, what five years, five times six times seven times, it's not that many chances that you get

in the less you're on one of those teams that you win young and everybody stays. And you get a chance to coach a star over and over and over again. Phil Jackson has had that Steve Kurz had that pop has done it really in three iterations, really too. I mean, because you got to combine the David Robinson to Dunkin, but to knowably in to Dunkin, they're all with Dunkin. No, you can make a case. They're all were Dunkin related. And now, you know, this is where I got

love pop, right? This is where we're bothers me the most. That bothers me because I love Mitch, is that how probably was thinking about retirement, right? And then he's like, oh, my gosh, I got this guy. I got the jackpot. Yeah, the jackpot again. And then it kind of gets taken away from that's really sad to me. For whatever reason, I don't know why it's sad to me, but it's really sad to me. Well, you mentioned Steve Cure and how lucky you are to be able to get to coach somebody

for most of their career, their entire career. He's just never leaving stuff. It's become clear.

“I think he might just move into steps, steps, gastromers, something. He never wants to leave that guy.”

Listen, but you think about the multiple winning dots. Michael Stombo, Beloved Killer, great guy, kind of great blue guy team wise in a tough way. Tim Duncan, come on, you can't have like a better guy, a better leader of a team. And Steph, you can't have a better leader, you know, as much as the, you know, I love LeBron, Katie, and all these guys. That part of it, they really did not have, you know, or I don't know if they didn't have it, but Steph is just just a so coachable.

All those guys are coachable. Michael Jordan is crazy and tough as he was. The one thing you

always heard about him, he respect coaching. Like he really did. I think he came from Dean. I think

Dean kind of embedded that in him. Tim Duncan, clearly did. And Steph clearly does. And it's easy to build around guys like that, you know. And none of those teams have he ever heard Tim Duncan.

“Have you ever heard Tim Duncan say this is my team? Right, you know, have you ever heard Steph?”

This is my team. Think about Steph when it got Katie, you care less. You never heard him say, I'm on my team. This is my team, you know. And Michael did have to say it. Right. But I do think that kind of stuff matters. Well, it's you talk about Michael Curry and Duncan. And then I think Wemby and Brunston are both like this, too, which is out there playing the finals. But they're

I'm going to stick up for everybody else. But I'm not going to leverage anything. I'm not going

to go to the papers. And I'm just, I trust you to build the right team around her. Never going to

hear them whispers, you know, rumors. They're just not going to do that. And that's part of what

“I mean about character. I mean, that's so important on teams, especially winning teams. Yeah.”

All right, Doc Rivers. Well, I'm going to make you come back at least one more time during the finals. How's our guy Larry David doing? Is he all right? He's making it through again. Okay. Maybe two game one. He's actually going to the garden, which I'm shocked by, but he's going to do it. But we do know, if things aren't going well, but we're just three quarter. Yeah. He will absolutely all right. Thanks, Doc. We're going to take a break. Come back with a little mail back. Thank you.

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over 17-sorten cafe for every match. Elepa Premium Café is already in the 29th Euro. And decades now, the Cuba capsule machine in Diner Chivo Fiale and of Chivo De E. All right, I'm going to do a little solo mailback. Got a lot of good mailback questions.

You can email us as always at BS [email protected]. The most emails I got, two subjects.

One was Steven Spielberg coming on and doing 2001 in Space Odyssey and the rewatchables. Just a lot of questions surprised that that was a surprise guest that we did not tip off and also think everybody thought it was a pretty amazing podcast. Myself included.

“The biggest question was what was he like? What was it like to sit there for two hours with him?”

And here's what I would say. One thing I've learned over the years when you're with or in the presence of somebody who's really great at what they do, no matter what it is, there's going to be a joy and a passion and a love for whatever their expertise is that they can't hide. And it really is one of the reasons that they're so good at what they do. And you can see with Spielberg, greatest living director, probably the greatest director we've ever had.

And just loves movies. Just loves talking about them, loves the whole process of them. The stories he was talking about, the set, how he does, you know, how he interacts with different actors depending on what their methods are. Just a huge student of it. And I don't know, after spending two hours with them and just seeing how much fun he was having with us and with the format and just discussing the movie, it just, the whole thing made sense. Like, yeah, of course,

he's the best director. This is how much he loves movies. This is his life. This is what he's devoted to. So that's the thing, that would be the big takeaway for me. Especially somebody comes in. They haven't been, you know, over at the studio in my house. They don't really know what's going to happen. And he just, like, completely bought in and was so excited to talk about the movie with us. So that was really cool. The other subject, people were wondering why it didn't seem

more excited about the AJ Brown trade when I did the podcast with Max Killerman on Tuesday. So he's definitely one of the five or six best receivers in the league. And he's going to be 29 when the season starts. So you figure they'll get three, four seasons out of him. Ideally, one he'll be awesome. Two would be a worst case scenario. It's a little like trading for Janice where it's like, you know, you're probably going to get two really good seasons after that.

You don't know. The salary stuff is pretty easy. He's in the high 20s. You don't have all of these crazy bonuses that you get if you're just signing a guy. The reason I didn't see more excited about it is I'm not positive why his production dip the last couple years. And there's been a lot of good dialogue and a lot of good stats about this about when he was at Tennessee. He was over the middle a

lot more at Philly. He wasn't. They basically just used them on the sides. And yet all the stuff

with the man to man stats with him. He's like, either he's the best receiver or one of the best

question for me is like, did he just kind of lose the world to live as a receiver by like 5% especially last year after they won the Super Bowl because he wasn't being used in the way that he would love. And ultimately these guys have to be inherently selfish to be greater receiver. And he's just like, I'm here. I'm a race car. I'm in the driveway. Please use me. Take me on the highway. You're not taking me on the highway enough. My engine needs to rev. And he's just going to come to the

Patriots and the Patriots are going to use in that way. And it'll be awesome. 2007 all over again.

Or do you get a little worried that the Eagles who have always been a step ahead, everybody really

for the last 19 years who seem like they're selling high and a guy that they traded a first run pick for road for a few years got a Super Bowl out. Then traded him for another first run pick.

“How much did they know? Did they think he was heading toward a different phase of his career?”

I'm old enough to remember a lot of different receiver trades of guys in their late 20s or early 30s who were awesome might be awesome again. And you just don't know. I think the Patriots had to do it. I wish they would have had to be able to put a protection on that 2020 pick. But ultimately the reason they didn't win the Super Bowl last year and got kind of killed in the big game wasn't just because they didn't have an awesome receivers because they couldn't block. And to me

with the tougher schedule and all the things that are happening this season with the Super Bowl hangover and not knowing if Drake may as 100%. I'm glad we're going to have guys who can get open and we're going to have big play guys and we might have a guy who's going to have 150 targets and 1500 yards receiving and 15 touchdowns and he's just going to be awesome. But if they can't block, none of it's going to matter. So I'm a little more worried about that. Anyway, I was I'm probably like

70 30 70 70 optimistic 30 a little suspicious why we're able to just grab one of the five or

“six best receivers in the league for a pick two years from now. That's why I was a little tempered.”

Anyway, some mailback questions got a lot of questions or got a lot of answers from different readers about Zack and I wondering what to call the Wendy box and one and everyone was saying just called area 51 Adam front Toronto said, "What's in the box after seven?" But the best, Kyle T wanted

to call it the French press that that was fun. But the one Dan from Seattle was the first one that

sent it and there were a couple more after it. This is the best one. Vick in a box. Dan Dan from Seattle wrote, "Vick in a box and boom goes the dynamite." Perfect. Vick in a box is great. It's an homage to I think Dick in the box was 20 years ago that has to know a thing. But I love Vick in a box and I'm going to be calling that from now on. So if they do it against the next, you could just say, "Look, they're playing Vick in a box." Steven got this email a few times

too. And I should have, and I'm about to apologize. Steven from San Francisco, listening to the Kalman pod wants to make sure he's not taking crazy pills because we talked about the best crowd

killers and never mentioned a guy named Steph Curry. The greatest shooter ever, the second that

got brought up. I like many others immediately thought of the OkC Game Winner in 16 or the 2022 finals game 4 game 6. What am I missing with the definition of crowd color and how was he admitted? Well, obviously, Steph would have been there. We kind of stumbled into that conversation. There was not a lot of thought put into the post 2010 guys. Obviously, because we didn't include Steph Curry. That conversation started just to remind you, it was what I wrote about while Fraser in my

basketball book in 2009. And I wrote, "I'm too young to remember watching Clyde Live," but he was a legendary crowd killer by all kinds. In my basketball watching lifetime, only seven guys were crowd killers. Jordan Bird, Kobe Bernard, Isaiah, Andrew Tony, and Strangely enough, Vinny Johnson. So those are my seven. All right. So I actually went in. I looked through basketball reference. I looked through all the scores. I really wanted to make sure I didn't miss anybody. And I also want to

explain the definition of a crowd killer because there has been a bunch of guys we've had in the last 15 years that have had moments that would have been added to that list. Like most famously, LeBron game, 6, 2012 in the East. LeBron, Durant, Kyrie, Kawai, Dame, even James Hardin. They've all had crowd killer moments, but I think the crowd killer thing is it's a little different because

“it's a recognizable heat check, but there's an inevitability to it. And that's what we're talking”

about with Brunson, and like in that Cleveland game, they're down 22 and he makes a couple and the inevitability kicks them like, oh boy, I've been here before. I think Edwards can get here. He's not there yet on this list. I think he can get there. I would he would be a draft pick for me. And

and the flopping and sometimes the crowd is so mad at some of the calls that they're not being killed because they're actually engaged because they're mad at SGA. So he doesn't really 100% fit, but maybe he'll get in there. So for the last 15 years, I had initially Jordan Bird Kobe Bernard

“as a Tony Vinnie Johnson. From the last 15 years, you have to add stuff. And you have to add Brunson.”

There's one other guy though. I think Wendy has to be added. Even though he's 22 and even though his whole career is ahead of him and who knows this might be the peak. But the combo of him on defense and then him when he gets going on offense and his ability to make 30 foot three is like he did in game one of the okc series. I think Wendy might be the tenth. He might be the only center. It's

funny. And B did had a couple crowd coer moments, but we've never seen him do it really,

really mattered. But Wendy, I think when Wendy is kind of starting to levitate above the game, the crowd gets psyched out in a real noticeable way that you could feel. So that would be the tenth. Jonathan C writes, "Is there any country that had a worst eight sports months than Canada?" Blue Jays went out from World Series champs. The bills flame out. I like that candidate claims the bills. They should. They lose to their biggest rival in OT, it mends and women's Olympic

hockey. Toronto Vancouver Calgary Winnipeg, almost the playoffs. Montreal makes the Eastern Finals and loses to the former Hartford Whalers. SGA becomes one of the most maligned players in the league and loses in game seven. He's still going. We have no Canadians and golfer tennis making impact the no MMA guys. He's still going. Breadheart came off awful in the Hogan documentary and then he said, "Samey Zane seems lost lately. Hope us out Bill."

Jamal Murray just said he wasn't playing for the 2020 Canadian team. That was another thing that came out. The Maple Leafs won the lottery. It's all I got. SGA won the title last year. He's going to be, he's already probably one of the best 30 players of all time. I don't know. It could be worse. You got to figure out the hockey thing though. Not winning a Cups at 93 when it's your national sport is pretty embarrassing. There's got to be a lot of soul searching

going there. I got a lot of emails about this. I'll just read three Alistar and the Blue Mountains

“of Australia. That's how far this this theory is trickled. What if game seven was the Ben Simmons”

game of Chets career and he put in parentheses professional Fisherman Ben Simmons not my son Ben Simmons?

Chris from Philadelphia said, Chris is first series. Our Chets spurs series reminds me of

when Ben Simmons's career ended against the 2011 Hawks and how he completely imploded. I look back at the boxbar from game seven and Simmons went two for four from the field. He did have 13 assists but still maybe this ends with a Chet versus Simmons Bass Master Classic in 2,000 35 one here at thoughts. And then the last one I got on this was from MJ from Milwaukee. My comp from Chet is Rocky and Rocky three facing Wemby is Klober Lang. I think I made that joke. He was scared

he didn't want any part of them too fast has to say anything like this. Wemby basically said, "Don't get this sucker to snatch you, give him guts!" My question who's going to be Chets Apollo who's going to take him to the gym and find his quickness? Who's going to raise some on the beach hug him uncomfortably? There is no tomorrow. It's from MJ from Milwaukee. I don't think

“that person exists. Here's the thing. This is, you know, a couple of KC fans emailed about this”

table and I hadn't thought of it about the, when, okay see, he lost the Dallas the first time

they made a playoff run in 2024 when Dallas made the finals. And Dallas guarded Chet a little bit similarly where he's a slow release three point guy. So you can kind of play off him and then die back at him, which is what the spurs were doing. And I think his real Achilles Halo other than he's in the same league as a 7 foot 6 UFO is that he's got up figure out how to have a quick release on those corner three because he's a good three-point shooter. I still like Chet. I'm

not going to get psyched out by that series. We talked about this in the, and one of the pods recently. There's been a lot of great players that have sucked in a playoffs. And he's at his age and what we've seen from him so far and the fact that they've already won a title with him. I'm not quitting on Chet. With that said, I still want to know who says no to a Chet to the Cooper's for the fifth pick trade because the Cooper's do have Cap space and that would give them the foundation of

Chet and Garland and KWI Leonard and then they could kind of patch on on the sides. They've been really good at finding like mid-level free agents and veteran guys. One trade I thought of.

they can take A-Coff who I think is going to go fifth. Okay, so he gets the seventh pick from the Quippers and then they take Mara, the Michigan Center. And that's their Chet replacement along with Heart and Stine. They save a bunch. They would save 30 plus million dollars with Chet versus a seven-pick Heart and Stine. So I kind of like that one. Plus the Quippers could pick up a future Kings asset and still get Chet. That's around the range. I don't think Top 4 is a Chet range,

but I think five to seven could be a Chet range. But as I said multiple times already it is not

Presti's history or it's just never something we've seen. He's not a panic trade guy and he's not

a oh god we got to do something guy. He's a continuity guy. Andrew speaking of fake trades. Andrew

“said it's not just the finals. It's fake trades season. You should come up with at least one”

fake trade for every podcast episode until fridge. It starts while we're doing a lot of episodes this month. Or rank your favorite five fake trades every Sunday night with Zach. More fake trades exclamation point. I don't have a question. If we ranked our favorite fake trades every Sunday night was Zach. He would spend way too much time on that probably have to be hospitalized. But I'm not against it. Okay June 3rd 2016 my favorite fake trades right now. One of them is a Celtics one

that I've kind of been hinting at for the last couple weeks on this podcast. I keep mentioning Murphy on the Polkens as a possible Celtics piece. And the reason is because if the Celtics decide we already want to title it with the jays. We don't want to pay both of these guys right right now they're two of the top seven contracts in the league. And not just by length of the deal, by what their price tag is just for the two thousand twenty six twenty seven season they decide that's

not sustainable in this current era. We have to figure out how to turn jay them round into multiple

pieces in a cheaper guy. Tray Murphy makes 25 million, which is 30 million less than jay them brown.

Here's the trade. The Celtics would get Tray Murphy, Missy, the the young senator who I like, Herb Jones, and Cam Johnson from the nugget. Stay with me. Plus a twenty thirty Polk and swap. And pick twenty six from Denver, which they would have to do after the draft because Denver's not allowed to trade their first room pick. New Orleans gets jay them brown. Denver gets Sam Houser and pick 40 in the trade. So then the Celtics would have too many

swingmen and then they could flip her Jones for something else. The other thing about Cam Johnson they could put him in their giant trade exception they get. But I think if the Celtics trade jaylin, I don't think it's going to be for yawness. I think it's going to be a trade like this. Multiple pieces, more flexibility. Guys that lead to one extra move after this and I think

“that's what they're thinking. I also think they could separately just trade Sam Houser for Cam”

Johnson and put him in that trade exception and get pick twenty six and try to pick twenty six and twenty seven in the draft. Then see if you can move up into the teens with those two picks. I mentioned Denver the other day and a bunch of nuggets fans, nuggets media members are mad. Bring it on. I stand by what I said. Hey, Denver, you're rich. I know about the second apron tax. I know about that all that shit, but they could just not pick up the Valentionist

contract for this year and then figure out how to trade Cam Johnson for less and sign Peyton Watson. And by the way, I don't think Peyton Watson's getting as much money as everybody thinks.

I don't know where his twenty million years coming from. We saw the guy play well for like

five weeks and he got hurt six weeks, eight weeks. I can't remember where it was, but I don't think

“I don't I think that's the range of guys that everybody's scared of right now. 17 to 22 million”

where you're overpaying like basically exactly what happened to the nuggets last year with Christian Brown who I think was her last year. But but if I'm Denver, I'm not pick them Valentionist and I'm trying to downgrade with Cam Johnson. And if I'm the Celtics and I can turn Sam Houser in a Cam Johnson. And then if it is time to trade Jailum Brown, who knows? My instinct is still that they're going to keep these guys. But if you could turn Sam Houser in a Cam Johnson,

do it, especially because he's an expiring at 23 million and that gives you flexibility of February. I think everything in the Celtics are going to do this summer is going to be about flexibility. They have a lot of young players that they like. They have two giant contracts. They don't have really any of the in-between stuff that the printed extension coming. Anyway, that's my first trade. Second one. Portland gets Janice and all his brothers. I think there's only two.

Milwaukee gets Jeremy Grant's scoot. All of their pick swaps back. Portland has, I think,

gets Janice. Listen, we've talked about this trade before. I'm not breaking new ground here. And I don't know if Janice wants to go to Portland. I'd heard he wants to be in these coasts that's too far for him. And who knows if he wants to play for El Chipo? The Blazer Zoder, who was already out of media tour trying to quit and that he's not El Chipo. Plus Carolina is in the Stanley Cup finals. So he's like, "Look, my El Chipo stuff works."

Portland can figure out how to get Janice without really giving up anything in their core and being able to put him with Drew Holiday and Klingon and Kamara and most importantly Denny.

I just think that's like, that's a better situation for him than Miami trading basically,

everything that have except Bam out of BIO and all their picks and just ending up with Bam and Janice and trying to figure it out. That's the most fun. I'd love to see Janice on that team. Read United with Dame. Read United with Drew Holiday. The other one would be Palo for Janice straight up. And I don't know who has to throw in more for that. But as we mentioned a few pods go, Orlando hired Janice's old assistant in Milwaukee, Sean Sweeney, who is the all-time

I can't believe you're enough for Massachusetts guy in the NBA, Sean Sweeney. But Palo for Janice makes a ton of sense for everybody. The last one, Washington gets Jimmy Butler in a Golden State 27th first, unprotected. Golden State gets Anthony Davis, followed, followed by the Warriors signing Lebron James. And we officially had the expendable circuit. We have Anthony Davis, we have Lebron, we have Dreyman, we have Steph Curry. By the way, they can get Jimmy Butler back.

Thanks to this stupid, my kindly role that we nobody ever knew about or my kindly got traded by

“Minnesota to I think Washington, Chicago, somewhere. Then got traded again and we, if then also”

Minnesota was going to was able to pick them up. So maybe they could end up picking them back up and February. But I'm all in, I listen, I've been driving this Golden State bandwagon. I also think there's real smoke. And I think there's some fire with Lebron going to Golden State. I think it's his best option, especially when you look at San Antonio and you look at OKC. The young course they have, how good their players are and what the kind of the ceiling of those teams

aren't compared to any other situation Lebron could be in, you're better off doing the all-star team. And the tour was Steph and the punchers chance of maybe all of these old guys together could do some magic in the playoffs one last time. They'd sell out every arena. Everybody would be in on it. I still love that idea. Natt and Oakland says, hey, Bill, I know you like a good title defense. What do you make of the thunders on or level in their title defense? And how does it make

their 25 title look? I think the parallels, the 2015 and 16 warriors, the 16 run proved the 2015 team was legit. I completely agree. I've talked about this a lot. title defenses are really important to me. I wrote about it. My book, it's the biggest thing you can date in the 83 six years on. They lost in five to a really weird Nett's team in 1984. And I just, I feel like when

“you win the title, you got to defend it in some way. You have to have a little bit of pride.”

87 self-tax beat in the best example of this. The teams just breaking down like an army platoon and there's still somehow make the finals. I would give OKC's defense in 8.5.

The Jalen Williams thing, the further we get away from it, losing your second best guy. I was

trying to think like, is there another example of anyone in the century who lost their second best guy and won the title? No. They went 75 and 22 this year. Eight of their losses came against the spurs. They went 71 and 14 against everyone who was in the spurs this year. And they went 155 and 35 in two years. So I thought that was an awesome title defense. Plus, they turned into villains. What else do you want? And now they have the eye of the tiger for next year. We have a great

chat sub plot. Maybe he goes to Australia. Heikes the outback. Rosebeard. Rosebeard. He has a beard. Big Bush earbeard. Noah from Conway, South Carolina said massive spurs fan here. My question is, when be the first true non-USA face of the league. Has she or Yoke ever truly been the face? Has the media or the fans truly ever accepted them? Mech, he mentions the team, he mentions Dirk, Nash. Even as USA has fallen behind in the best

of the league conversation, it feels like Yoke and Giannis and Shay have not got asked in their seats. Like Wemby, thoughts. I hate the face of the league. I said multiple times. I don't like it.

I think it's stupid. People act like we always have to have one. It's kind of...

“It's the mountain in the league. They have to climb if you want to win the title that”

people are just thinking about it all the time. This is how I would think about it. And in football,

by my homes, that was almost as big of an achievement as winning the title. So I think that's a piece

“of it combined with the mom test of, does my mom know who this player is? Does your mom know”

who this player is? Does anyone who doesn't follow sports know who the player is? Are they bringing in casual fans? And it's just their general recognition of the person. And we have just not had this since LeBron and Curry and we definitely have a Nath Wemby. And this is what I said all long. You know it when you see it. You can't force it. You can't say, "Oh, it's Grant Hill."

It says, "GA, you just can't." You know it when you see it. Yoke and she was 90% there, but never

totally got there. He doesn't resonate like Wemby did. LeBron was that guy from 2011 to 16. Curry and the Warriors collectively, from the second part of that decade, Kobe and Shack together, MJ, Burden Magic, simultaneously, Kareem. You know what when you see it? And Wemby has it right now, no matter what happens in this finals. Next year, when we go into the next season, we'll be talking about Wemby and the Spurs who could beat them. And also Wemby, Wemby, Wemby and he will sell

“out every rainy season. He will get the biggest ratings. And that's what happens. Josh S wants to know,”

if the mix win the title this year, is this the most improbable NBA championship when compared to where everything stood at the start of the playoffs. They completely revamped their offense halfway through a playoffs series. Their best players for foot seven, I think he's taller than that. And it's the fucking New York next. Given where we were six weeks ago, this would be the most improbable championship that they pulled it out. So they were six to one when the East before the

playoffs. I gave, I tweeted out some picks before the playoffs. And one of the lock shot picks was Brunson to be the Eastern Conference MVP was plus 650. And I think they were six to one when the East that obviously flipped. So for improbable championships, 22 Warriors, the 2011 Dallas, 1977 Blazers. The 1978's onix, making the finals, they didn't win. But that was incredibly improbable. As was the 20 and 23 heats, but they didn't neither of those teams will

either. The 75 Warriors was pretty improbable. And then the 69 Celtics are the big ones. But this,

“I think the parallels to this one would be the 2011 Mavericks, where very similar to the Mavericks,”

where it felt like they hit rock bottom in the first series. And the Mavericks had Portland. And then there were multiple times when it just felt like they didn't have a chance. And then they even get to the finals. They're two to one hundred dogs. So I would say the 2011 Dallas.

The 22 Warriors, it was always felt like if they could just stay healthy and figure out their

shit. Puedos with Boston and Milwaukee, Milwaukee had Middleton banged up. Boston never been number four. And there was always a sense like if Goldstake could just get there. I think it's taken out Dallas, especially when they're down 15 in game two after having lost game one. That was improbable as the finals was happening. It seemed to be a problem. Zach Hogg said he mentioned how I've always had a theory that championships and success come in bunches for cities. It's France

having that moment right now. France who's already won a World Cup final, or made the World Cup final last two years and they've won one. PSG's down one back to back championship in league. French swim or Marchant, not very familiar with his work, but he's apparently shadowy. Michael Phelps' World Records. The French rugby team is one of a couple championships. Big deal in Europe. Sure. Wendy's down in the NBA finals. You could make cases the best for

in the NBA. So Zach asked why not hammer France to win the World Cup with the spurs to win the NBA finals and just bet on the summer of France. Now you're seeing this after game one in the finals. That was plus 770 before the finals. I already had spurs money. I threw some more on that. I like that one. The year of France. So this is something I didn't realize until after I did the podcast with Max. Game six of the finals is on Tuesday, June 16th. And that same

day, France is playing in New Jersey at the giant football stadium. Never World Cup game at 12.

And then potentially game six with the next would be that night. And people could try to go to both. It's so crazy that France would be playing in the same night that Wendy could potentially be clinching his first NBA championship that I must feel like it's destined to happen. I really do. I was thinking about when I in 1994, I went my buddy Jim Grady was living in Portchester with my friend camp and I went up there and we were supposed to watch game five of next rockets. That was

the night of the OJ car chase. And it just was like this crazy night that has been immortalized

of those. I remember where I was when I watched this game in this whole car chase thing.

“I do wonder if that June 16th is going to be kind of a crazy day like that with the double France”

thing, just something some sort of signature French moment plus 770. We'll see if that one hits. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about TV shows and TV versus movies and a little seesaw that started a shift and also we're going to talk about you for you and the season finale that show series finale now. We're going to talk with Joe and Robinson and Chris Ryan and that is next right after this break. This episode is brought to you

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tough enough to take down your most daunting tasks. When it's marathon work session versus you, give no quits shop at a Duluth Store near you or at Duluth Trading.com. All right, I'm here with Joe and Robinson, Chris Ryan. We just did a rewatchable taping so I kept them around to talk a little pop culture. You for it was last night. Series for now, it sounds like. Oh, is this really confirmed it? One of my least like

seasons of television I've had. I've never gotten so many all caps texts from you. I was

fearless. I really hated it. Yeah. And I hate shading on tea. These things are hard to make. There's million actors and our expectations. But there's certain seasons. There was a

“dexter season I remember that I was just like I've never fucking watched in the show. Did you keep”

watching it? No. You were out before the end of Dexter? Oh yeah. Did you do that on lost? Did you ever freak out on lost? I didn't like the last season of the last. But that show had built up so much good well for me. You for it, it goes away for years. Right. Comes back and has three of the biggest under 35 actors that we have and just fumbles it. So I was it was an F minus for me, but what did you think? I was like a C. I would say for me,

I think there's some stuff in the finale that was really, really good. But I'm baffled by the way in which this season and this finale especially got bogged down in this like there's this Nazi cohort. And then there's Alamo and his bad guys. And so there's like two big shootout sequences that take up a lot of this episode. 30 minutes into the finale and we're still like shooting Nazis. And I'm just like what about all these characters we spent all these years with?

Like, a hunter-shafer plays jewels as barely in this finale. Like, you know, Cassian, Maddie, or kind of in the finale. It was just really confusing to me. I understand the impulse and it's okay to want to sort of try something new with your show. Like, we reinvented ourselves for this season. But you still have these legacy characters that have been there from the beginning. So to not give them a conclusive story or a more airtime in the final episode was

absolutely insane to me. Yeah, it's probably a lot warmer on it than you guys were. The addiction stuff really worked for me. I thought that Zendaya Coleman Domingo's like relationship was amazing. Very good. And I'll say what I've kind of been like trumpeting the whole year with the show with Andy

is I was just never bored and so much TV bores me. You know, like so much of the time I'm like,

oh, I can see where this is going. I know what's going to happen now is like this XYZ is going to kind of play out. And when she, I guess, obviously spoilers for this episode of euphoria, I mean, finale. But when she passes away at like the 40 minute mark and they're still another hour. I was like, oh, we're going to spend an hour kind of remembering Rue and doing the funeral and then turns into fucking taxi driver. I was like, well, I didn't see this coming. You know, like, I kind of

thought maybe Ali would sacrifice himself for Rue in some way. But it was such like a weird dark fantasy of like the vengeance that probably people who lose people to addiction feel like they want to take out. And it was just, I mean, you could, you could say a lot of it, but it was very unique. So I'm probably more in the bezone if you're F and she see I'm a little bit higher on it,

but just because I was like, this, this never, this never was dull of me.

“Well, that's why I wasn't sure until HBO confirmed it after we recorded our finale discussion,”

but that they confirmed that this is the final season. But I wasn't sure that it would be not, I mean, Jacob O'Lordians and Dayow would no longer be on the show, but you have plenty of other people and people are talking about it every week. Yeah. And that's hard to find in this TV landscape.

I feel like they were probably good. I'm just saying. I have this idol season that was pretty crazy and super expensive. I'm sure this season was not not expensive, with probably nothing. Yeah, I think this season was also more by like the strikes and COVID and stuff like that. So it sounds like it went through a couple of different, like, whole creative. Well, they're watching this happen across an actor. Yeah.

Lost an actor and they also were cursed by never having their best actors all in the same scene

for different reasons. I think for shooting schedules, but personal reasons. I really does seem like Zendaya and in cities we did not want to be in a scene together. Which I think hurts the show was just it felt very disjointed to me. I didn't like the awardee stuff at all. I didn't understand it. Nature didn't really get actor. Like what the fuck was the point of that? Nature didn't have been in the season at all. It's just yeah.

Or should have died in the, if you're going to use it that way, just kill him in the first episode. It's a whole point of him is to create this, well, the whole point of it is to say,

“we have Jacob O'Lordian our show in 26, right? Yeah. That's why you keep O'Lordia around.”

But for plot reasons, you really just need a Cassie to be in debt. And so he could have died in the,

they could have had the wedding and he died like the first episode. But that's stuff kind of hard

like it's interrogated in the finale. Like that was one of the, my problems with it is that like this sort of chain reaction from Rootel's Lexi that she's a D age and 48 format. Yeah. And then Lexi tells Maddie a Maddie tells Alamo. Alamo seems like probably would have found out either way, but like there's no reckoning with like Maddie being like, I can't believe like, this is what happened to Root. Like does she even know that she's the reason? And that was that was

that really bothered me because I know you're not like a huge Maddie slash Alexa Demi fan, but I really love that character. And I think she's one of the smarter characters on the show. And so for her to just casually drop this DEA information in front of Alamo, I thought was like a bizarrely stupid move to not then have any ramifications at all for that character or like emotionally.

I mean, this is like a show that does something did something in an incredible way that TV shows

really do anyway anymore, which is like mint stars. Like when you think about the fact that like that there's that shot of Zendaya, like the young Zendaya, when she's having her flashback, I'm like, gosh, she was a kid when she started this show. And like, so for them to have this lightning and a bottle with three performers, especially Alorty, Sweetie and Zendaya, and it kind of have it wind up where it winds up. I guess it does feel a little bit like a wasted opportunity,

but it's not surprising that you know, like, we're given their schedules and stuff like that. It is disappointing, but it's not surprising that they're they're not more scenes together. But I just don't think something like Andy was just saying this today on the pod. Like, I don't think like anything like this is ever going to happen again, where you have this amount of

“like talent. So that's why I give it the F minus. I don't think it was an F minus show,”

but I think they had the opportunity to do something really special with the people they had. And I just don't think they pulled it off. And I don't think the revelry is headed that way. You think off campus, headed that way? Maybe. I don't know what they tried to do with Sidney Sweetie this season. She seemed to enjoy it. She seemed to love it, and I'm so curious what you thought about it. Were they mocking what people think is the perception of her or was he mocking her without

her knowing she was by the way. I think it was the former. I don't I feel like it was a little normal. It'll call me like I think there was just like a little bit of Sidney Sweetie not being entirely in on the joke, but her being somewhat in on the joke. That's how I felt. So my daughter who loved this show and this is a big part of like her generation. Yeah. And she liked the finale, but she likes everything because she really liked Ruin and the

Coleman Domingo car. Because we had the theory that she I don't think Ruin is going to die because she's the narrator. Right. Yeah. And she thought that he would die and then she would take

“his place and so they flipped it. But I guess the problem with Levinson is also the best thing about”

him. He can make anything look good and entertaining. Right. So this turns into like a Western. We have like a whole Nazi shoot out. Yeah. And it's all that's really well done and well filmed and just interesting. And then you kind of think about it after you're like, what the fuck just happened? Why was that? I'm just on emotionally invested. Yeah. Why did I just spend an hour 45 minutes watching that? And if that was a movie, would that have been a good use of my time? I don't know.

I disagree there on one thing though. I was pretty bored through multiple stretches yesterday. I just was like, what the fuck? And not be shoot out. I thought was like a fair of the long and this like the Lori suicide when I'm just sort of like, I don't care about this character. I don't care about anybody in that house. When it. So when I say that, I mean, even when I would be like, this is the third time they've had this conversation or the fourth time the scene has happened

visually, I would be like, yeah. There's something that popped like even the shoot out in the Nazi like,

are still for like the last shit. Like nobody really makes westerns like this right now.

Well, and as two people who were like podcasting about it week to week, like there was always

something to talk about and people were talking about it. And in this like, you know, attention to economy, like the fact that people were engaged at all, even if they were angrily engaged, I mean, I don't know if that's a negative message to send, but like,

“there's something important. Yeah, I guess the bigger issue is can any show end in a way that”

satisfies the fit as well? Yeah. Have finale rules. Also happened this week. When did the two specials come out? Uh, what year? No, I mean, like, was a between one and two. One and two. Yeah. So like between one and two, they did these two specials. One was about jewels and one's about Ollie and Zen and Rue. And I was, I remember thinking back about those like just after watching last night and being like, man, like, I wonder if it would have worked better if it was like three of

these weird. Yeah. I'm going to do a night movie. I'm going to do a Cassie movie. And then I'm going to do the Ollie and room movie. And we'll put it all together. And it'll be like a six to eight week special event of like wrapping up the boy in a story. Yeah. Yeah. But like to your point, I wonder if there was holding out hope of like, well, maybe we'll do more. Maybe like in five years, we'll come back and they'll be like, they'll all be older than and maybe I can do the Rue as a private detective

story then and all all this stuff that have been kicked around as ideas. Yeah. Too much time passed.

“And I think that was a huge problem. I think it's really hard to figure out how to land the”

plane correctly when you're also trying to land the plane on. This is five years after the last time you've seen all these people. And I mean, like, you know, what I rather had season three of you for you, rather than the idol, yes. But I do, I mean, we can't underestimate the impact that losing Angus Cloud had on this entire crew and this creator is like that. So like I can understand that while still not enjoying the end product of what we got. Is this better if it's

just a five year reunion for high school? And we don't go completely over the top and make this like the absolute craziest. I mean, there were scenes this season where it's like, you're trying to set the record for the craziest scene that's been on HBO five different times. It's like they're dealing with it. We're almost of a better scaling it back the other way and trying to make this show a little more normal when it wasn't. Yeah, it's almost distracting at

points because like when Ollie is doing his vengeance tour. And you're like, wow, I'm really engaged. This guy's got his military uniform on. This like rolling thunder. It's happening. Yeah. But then you've got like fake Brazilian buff but lifts like walking across the screen

every second. Yeah. And I know it's set in a strip club. So it like works. But there's no

strip club in the world. But it's just like, do fucking concentrate. Like tell the story that's right in front of you rather than making sure I see four snakes and two buds. You have one of your main character in the show Maddie here in this shootout. But she might as well not been there. She was a piece of furniture. So weird. You like the hacks finale a lot. I loved the hacks when Ellie. I liked it. And it was also, but it was interesting. Did you watch hacks at all? No.

Something happens at hacks where they like kind of get up to the edge of something very, very, you know, like unexpected and impactful happening. And they back off of it the last second, probably for the best, like in terms of people's enjoyment of it. But I'm glad I'm glad that with with you for you, they were like, this is what happens to people who get to close to the son a little bit. But also I would see with the hacks finale. And I guess we're talking around

it. Like they don't say it's not going to happen. Sure. It's just not happening in this. And it's up. Yeah. Right. TV isn't a weird spot right now. Even though we're all watching a ton of it. This year is very, the back half of this year is very strange. I don't know. Like I don't

“know what I think the whole year has been weird because one of the weirdest things that's happened is”

we thought TV had taken over for movies. And now movies is having this huge renaissance because they're actually making movies about original IP. Sean just heard you across town. I know, I'm sorry, Sean. Conversationally he and Steven Spielberg clinking espresso. Yeah. Conversation. I think more and more people are doing the video session and it's the way used to be. I don't know what we had to die for 10 years. And I don't think it was, you know,

I know this is we've done so many pods and different things about this. But I really just think

everybody got lazy for a long time. And then it finally started not making money. And then it's

like well, maybe we need to find new stories. It's like, yeah, mother fuckers. But in total movies, yeah. COVID definitely fucked it up and knocked the backwards. Maybe this all would happen three years sooner. But movies just feel a little more vibrant that TV right now. Like if I see another fucking apple show and I've watched most of them, where it's three actors, I've known a few times from different things. Yeah. And there's a murder and one of them died and now we go backwards.

No, I'm not going to watch Cape Fear.

Widows Bay, we're loving Widows Bay. The pit. Can't get there. The pit, where you was the last one. Yeah, I love the pit. The pit was though. You know, because I was sending you a text about it. I do know. The pit was so that, and now people are going to rip the pit off. And then we're going to get a lot of life. Yeah. The pit was just ripping, you know,

“the pit is just doing old school television. Yeah. There's something about they got. I think that”

collectively, and you could do a Matt Bellany conversation about moving away from networks and into streaming services and why like different priorities change. But there was something about the Golden Age of Television that basically raised Joe and Joe and I as as people who talked about this stuff. Where it was like breaking bad and some franos and some of these shows, even if maybe there had been a feature script at its origin story ever, felt like a new and different way of telling stories.

And then when you have this gold rush and talent rush into TV, but it's like,

yeah, I guess what Nicole Kim is going to be on this, but she can always shoot for like four weeks.

So can we do all of her scenes in three sets? And they have to be like before we know what the end of the show is or I'm not even talking about her specific show, but yeah, I feel like more and more you can see the schedule reliant of shows where you're like, oh, did they actually not have like the ending or what like what happened here and that and also it's connected what Bill was saying about sort of this like the way in which IP or superheroes or whatever you

however you can put it took over movies, then all those like mid-level original idea movies became like drawn out limited series. So that's the only place you could tell those stories. Yeah. But you didn't have enough story there. So then you just get this like really thin sort of diluted version of what would have been a good like, you know, just movies for adults movie and and people could tell you get tired of the time. A lot of those Apple shows that you're talking

about are just stretched out movies that people can't get made as movies and so they're taking them to and you make more money if you stretch it out. There's a lot of the behavioral going on and I recognize it in myself where I get like three episodes into a show and I'm like,

“that's pretty good, but I think I'm good. I got it. You know what I mean? Oh my god, you make it three.”

But you know what I'm like an episode. You're like kind of cruising through a Netflix or an Apple or an Amazon show and you're like, I think I got it. You know like, I think I think that this is like kind of, did you do any more burrows after we talked about it? No, I think I got it. Yeah. I'm really good. That's a good example. Yeah. Legends is like a great show on Netflix. I was like, I got to finish this, but there's something daunting especially if like, you know,

like you said, like movies have kind of had this a little bit of a revival of like we got to go out and see backgrounds like the weekend that comes out because it feels like that's people are talking about it. Really like you can't believe it. I mean, we live in LA, obviously where everybody loves going to the movies and we have great apps now where you can see how many seats are available and things like that. And so I was thinking about making my wife go to see backgrounds last night and looked in the

“morning and there were a bunch of seats left and like the 10 o'clock, you know, they was”

by the time I got to 2 o'clock, like everything was gone. It was like sold out. It was like holy shit and it was talking to my son about it because he, him and his friends, my son's 18, they love going to movies, obviously. But I do think a big piece of this other than the original IP thing. People were COVID stuck kind of in their house for a while, not being able to go out as much and then that started a slowly shift away and then now it's back to normal. And now people

are looking for excuses to go out again that I don't feel like was there a few years ago for a variety of reasons. They've also now, they're learning that and they just announced that obsession was supposed to come out this week on paid video. I couldn't believe that they delayed it. And now they're delaying it back in other 30 days or 40 days. And it's happening with TV where it's like there's four or five shows a year that our big deals are weekly and everything else is like these binge

drops that either where you were psycho and you watched it on Friday or if you watched it over the course of two months and you got to finish it but you haven't yet and Joe and I are both huge fans of Widow's Bay. One of the reasons why it's been kind of like this cool little show is that you can kind of feel it game momentum. The same thing happened with the pit and it's first season of the pit. Watching audiences need time to find these things. And if Widow's Bay had been

a binge jump, you wouldn't have this like as the audience grows and then week to week and Widow's Bay is a little bit of a theory show. Surely people get to trade theories and get really

invested and I've just like always been anti-binge. It is very anti-social and like what you're

you sit in a dark room with people and you laugh or you cry or whatever it is, you are feeling something with people around you and we're in a psychological space, societal space right now where people feel so isolated, people feel like they can't connect or agree on anything and if you have this communal experience, TV can be that if it comes out week to week and if everyone's watching the same thing which is so hard to capture. Tapping was sports sporting events too.

Like sports is completely back and attendance is doing great and obviously from places people like being really beautiful. The binge thing, like we've been talking about on this podcast forever,

I just don't like it. It's horrible. But for selfish reasons. I'm always dating back to

grantland. It's just bad. Stranger Things was bad for us the way this schedule was. If they had spread it out, it would have been better for us. So I'm being selfish about it but I just think the ability to dive into a show every week, wonder what just happened, what's going to happen next is

“I think that's how people want to watch shows. These networks aren't stupid if they thought”

there was more money or more interest in it being a week to week. I'm sure they would do it. I do think it's a little bit of like an us problem where it's like we like to talk about these things. We like to talk about these things episodically. I'm bummed out that the last season of the bears go up on like a Thursday night. You know what I mean? I'm bummed out that the bear has been a

confusing case the entire run because it's first season was a binge dump. But once it was such a huge

thing, we were confused every year. She had been two weeks. And we'll in FX is like we've got the numbers that support this is the model for you. But like it's more of an instant gratification versus a long-term investment thing. But I'm sure the numbers prove that if you binge drop something, you know, you will get more eyeballs on it immediately. But in terms of like building a widow's bay audience or building a pit audience, like there's longer term benefits,

calm MECs and calm all these other things in terms of its endurance. Yads and us covering shows problem. But I also think it's like an impatience and that anxiety, that insecurity, that a lot of like studios and streamers are experiencing. I only like superficially follow this stuff. But I am very much aware that there's usually like a huge flood of shows right around now, the previous few weeks, because people are trying to get in under the Emmys,

and obviously the summer. And to me that's a lot of like, you know, maybe bigger stars doing TV who are like, if I'm doing this, I want to be up for an Emmy. Yeah. Don't put me out in August and have make people try to remember me next spring. Yeah. And I don't know if there's that many shows that it came out in the last couple of weeks that I would be like, this is so good. I wish it had had a better runway or had a better window. But they were putting out way too much

shit in like a six week period. Because they're like, we have to get this up to run an FIC campaign to get an Emmy nomination to satisfy the talent relations that we have and do whatever. And I do think it's like kind of now blinding people to like be like, it just seems like five shows just pop up on peacock every week, and I don't know what to do about that. And I think that

“like, we should have shows where somebody gets kidnapped. Well, or just like, do you have to be”

like an alley the hacks? They were like a ton of fun. Yeah. But do you have things where you have two shows on it once and you promote them and you like build conversation about them and then hand the baton off to the next two shows. It doesn't make any sense. Because when you're thinking about, I do think a lot about the FIC stuff. And when you think about what they're running, like task is a huge thing are running. And they didn't run that in the classic Emmy's window.

You know, but it was it week to week build an audience was a huge thing for them.

Yeah. The one other thing with the binge that I think gets lost is we always talk about how

it's bad for us. It's bad for discussing this. I also find when you binge a show, I just don't watch it as carefully because especially it's like, oh, bang out for episodes. Like, I watch those seasons of the bear and they all just sort of kind of lump together. Because I don't feel like I watch them the way I would normally watch them and if it was just spread out. Yeah, they've even you for it, which drove me crazy. It was at least once a week and I actually

watched it and it was something that I was concentrating on. If I was trying to binge that, it would have been a nightmare. Yeah. I heard of a bear thing that was jumped out at me, it was like that first season you're right. It had almost like a stranger thing. It's kind of thing where it went from like, you see the show the bear to remember you slacking me and you're like, have you seen this bear thing? No, now I have watched the bear in five hours. The second season,

“and I think I had screened or so it wasn't a personal thing, but I remember being like, oh man,”

it sucks that not everyone is going to watch the Christmas dinner episode at the same time. And there is going to be prepackaged articles going out about how did the bear do that episode?

I, and it's like, oh, shit, Jamie Lee Curtis, John Burnthall are in this episode. Like,

and Bob Owen Kirk, like, some of the best shows ever benefited from that more than anything. I mean, thrown certainly, sopranos, which doesn't know, but, but lost, I mean, yeah, they're about lost now. It had been 10 episodes a season. It would have been a binge show and it just like completely different. Jack says we have to go back. It just would have been trapped during the season, long binge. And everybody who had experienced it at different times,

and it wouldn't have the impact. I was thinking, with the pit, I was thinking so much about this idea of water cooler culture and water cooler conversation and the way in which shows like lost or the sopranos or bad men or whatever, to a lesser degree. That idea of the water cooler is so rare and it's, it feels so good when everyone's watching something together. Whatever one's watching task and like we can see it with podcasts on others when people are like

dialed into a show. And then people want to text me and talk, you know, people want to text me on that night while they're watching it. They're like, holy shit, I can't believe this happened or like, why did Robby do this or, you know, what's, who's the secret word on Windows bay? You know, and that's just, that's better for a culture. When I was ready for Jimmy's show, we came out on Monday when sopranos was running. And so we, all the writers, we'd all get together

with Jimmy and we try to figure out like act one and we all go around the room and pitch bits. And during this time, the sopranos had like, it was one of their runs. I can't remember what season and we were just all around the room on the Monday. We were talking about the show for like an hour and a half. Yeah, we'd have like no bits and I was like, dude, that's just like, that's just gone in the benchmark on. So I don't know. I understand there's reasons why they do it. I'm sure the numbers

are just as good, but like, I watched DTF because I had screeners for that, DTF San Luis. I watched it the day after New Year's all at once. I watched like six episodes of Monday because I was hung over and

“I just wanted something to watch. And it hit me differently. I think if I had watched it week to”

week, I would have liked it more. But it was like too much all at once. And that's another issue. Some of these shows are like two to dense to bench. That's a show that didn't really work from me personally, but I will like, you respect it. I really, and also like, is the kind of thing that we should have more of. Now, you could say DTF might have been like a good to our movie and or you know, whatever, but I wish more shows have like the sensibility and also like the creative

bravery to be like, this is not like every other show. Like the sense of humor is going to be different. The performance style is going to be a little bit different. The tone is going to be different. You may or may not love it, but we're going to take a risk with it. And I think that there's a lot of like risk version in TV that you can really feel. Yeah. Every show starting with a flash forward and then a six months earlier is like, you guys are putting the hook at the front of your

song. Yeah. You guys don't trust me to watch TV show because you got to show me a dead body

in the first five seconds. Right. I know. I know what show I'm watching. It's presumed innocent. You know,

like, it's like I assume. I've seen the movie. Yeah. And to go back to your point about how you don't watch binge shows that closely, then we get into that feedback loop that, you know, people

“been talking about more and more recently, where that's like exact or whoever say you have to repeat”

things 10 times because people are second screening this. They're not paying attention. And so then the shows get worse since then people want to pay even less attention to them because you're like, oh, I already saw this scene. You keep repeating the same lines over and over again because you think I'm not paying attention. And so I won't pay attention. Yeah. Sadly, I was laid on the pit and we've benched it. And I really tried to lock in. But I'm sure I missed a bunch of stuff. So there's

almost like, I think it's it's an amazing week to week experience. But watching it in binge is

almost representative of like the quality, like the derational quality of the day that they're having on show. So if you watch like five episodes, you really are like, well, shit, it's been five hours and like, yeah, it didn't work. But I still feel like I missed you right at the end. And you I thought you caught up like by the time the finale. Yeah, I caught up for you guys. Yeah, I made it in time. It was good. But I do wonder like the seesaw of the movies versus TV. This is going to be

an interesting next couple of years. Zip, I'm a creative person. Do I want to have a movie and I can get out of it? I can just create something from scratch and have people see it and do well and make the next one. Who do I want to emulate what these other people are doing with these TV shows where it's like I might be locked into this for five, six years of my life. By the way, I'm not going to make as much money as I used to back in the day. And I actually might have more upside on the movie side.

“Your brain's going to shift toward the movie, making I think. Like, even somebody like the guy in the”

bear, right? Jeremy Ellen what? No, the creator. Chris, he's making a movie next time. Yeah. The bear was

the real money is going to be for them. I hope so, but there's still plenty of movies that come and go

and people pay no attention to them. Sure. But you couldn't at least move on to the next thing when you're doing it. You do a show. This is your lock down. Even before you guys couldn't get out of it.

“That's how these movies kind of flopped. If you had been locked into, like, I have to do everybody”

loves Raymond for ten years. He missed her mom for ten years. Yeah. Well, that was like kind of like maybe that made more sense. I don't know. I mean, you know, the differences is like, yeah, Joe's right. Like, there's there's going to be for every Odyssey and back rooms and obsession. There's going to be 10 movies. A bunch of me didn't know. Yeah. But then some, some of them can even do well. And they end up on, like, the Amazon on demand, you know, the paper view, the Roku.

Does that even exist? I don't know. Fendango universe. It is fun. You know, I'm

relatively new to living in Los Angeles. And, but having worked with you guys for years and years and years and having listened to Mallory, say, every screening of this is sold out. And I've been services going like, not here. Yeah. And so it is nice to be in this town where people are going to the movies all the time. And any time of day that you decide to go to movies, they're going to be other people there. It's so cool. You're really right, though, about there's something different.

Like, I remember even, like, last year with Andor, and I was like, me and the 10 people I know who were watching Andor obsessed with this and can't believe this is happening. And then there's like, all these people who are like, I know, I mean, I love it. I just, you know, just don't have time right now. You know what I mean? But it's too much because there's too much stuff. And it's too much of a commitment to going to any of these shows. That was one thing that kept me from the pit for a while.

I was like, I don't know. I'm busy watching important stuff. Like, terrible and be again. Yeah. Showing up like four to the least. Yeah. Um, but it is a commitment. And I found the same thing it would be a funny letter box of like, did I quit this TV show? Yeah. Where it's like, I lasted an episode and a half with that new show on HBO that I just kind of started. I was like, I hear from you more often than not, it was horrible. I watched all of it. Yes, when it comes to TV.

Yeah, but that you, with usually that means I had it on as I was doing other stuff. Um, beef is a good example. So when you watch it on beef, but if you quiz me on it,

I'd probably miss like half of the, the second season. My, my, my, my name is Danny stole my dog

and turned it into a fighting pit bull. Like, when you're watching that on Netflix. Like, yeah, I was screaming that. Well, and that's, that's another thing that's winning right now. It's certainly winning for Netflix is these hat, these hour and a half true crime documentaries. The crash has been, I think, number one on Netflix for like two weeks. And I feel like everybody saw at some point had an opinion on it. There were other documentaries about it. And

from a water core standpoint, it feels like true crime documentaries are, are hitting as hard as any TV show. It's really is strange time. Can we talk about our positive HBO who like, you know, HBO FX and Apple are the ones who are like holding it down on the week to week releases

“despite the bear. And who was doing the release to and then you have to, right, the minute the”

half been sort of thing. HBO this year had, not in 17, it was just great, but that's like their IP, um, you for is their IP to a certain degree, right, um, DTF, which you liked. I liked, but that was, like, my dad would not have made it 10 minutes on that show. Like, that show had a distinct audience. And I'm that chair of middle America, um, they're interesting one, ironically because it's a certain middle America. Right. Right. That's the dragon, lanterns. So, and then Harry Potter at

the end of the year. Yeah. You know, off the back of them doing like, welcome to dairy and doons. So them investing in these like IP shows. Yeah. It seems like they're kind of going a little bit more either big blockbuster stuff or, um, getting into the pitification of other genres. And I'm in, I'm here for the pitification of other genres, but like, and the pit, obviously. But like, I'm curious, like, where's this use task or where's, you know, where's, like, where's like,

as long as those guys still make industry or something like it, as long as like there's a show that comes out of nowhere and just kind of like feels like lightning in a bottle and it feels different industry is great. Industry was great. Industry was fantastic. And that's the kind of thing that you

“really, really need to keep TV feel alive. What's the show you're looking forward to the moment?”

Pass the dragon because I get to cover with Chris. Actually, the, the real answer is the Vampire Listat on AMC. That's just my own personal. Oh, that's where I don't know. I, I think lanterns. I'm really excited to see Kyle Chandler and, and Aaron Pierre in a show together. I'm a big Kelly McDonald fan. She's in it. I'm excited about that. If you knew a super talented 25 year old who made shit, would you tell them to go into TV or movies? It depends on what kind of shit

they want to make. You know, if they're, if they're a little Vince Gilligan, then I would say

Yeah, it depends on the person in the story. We love TV and movies. So, like, you know, I, I wouldn't trade a well-made movie for a shitty season of television. I wouldn't trade a well-made season of television. I'd push it into movies. The one thing I have learned is that over the last 15 years is like this will go in some cycle that's way faster than than we understand it. And whether or not like the kind of TV that we're watching in three or four years feels way more like the time of TV

“we were watching in the early 2000s. I think that's possible. I think people could start being like”

there were certain things that people expected. There's a reason why these kids are watching 300 episodes of Gillmore Girls and not this other show that kind of feels like Gillmore Girls,

but isn't as well-made. Like, how do we go back to that? But yeah, I can always have to work.

That did happen, by the way. Yeah. Grayson, Adam, and Gillmore Girls for whatever reason. Friends, the office, you know. I think the 90s stuff has started to die according to my daughter. Oh, and we'll cause we're in the different results. It's too far now. The nostalgia cycles now. It's not the odds. Yeah. What's really interesting is that lost hasn't had its real moment again yet. And I kept waiting for it to happen. It had as many peak during in the pandemic, I would say.

But I mean, because everyone was at home watching everything. But yeah, it's not, it's not in that nostalgia cycle yet, you know? Because in the '90s we were, usually 20 years is then nostalgia

“cycle, so which is just right now. 20, like I was talking to Yasi about 80s movie soundtrack,”

so that's just going to be doing on band's playing. We were talking about the big chill and we were talking about another time. I didn't get the call from Yasi. And we were talking about, she won't take five percent of the time. She won't take five percent of the time. And we were talking about big chill and we were talking about dirty dancing in that like 50s nostalgia that fused the 80s, you know, and how like, all we listened to in my house is 50s music in the 80s. Yeah, the 90s. It was

the 70s, you know, like, well, the 70s was amazing because like happy days, people go on backwards, free, basically preview it no more. What do we just talk about that with? What movie was we talked about it with, yeah, we brought it up with something animal house. Right. Yeah.

Oh, because animal house was set in 1962. Yeah. But it's so weird that that never really happened

for the 90s. I don't know. Oh, it did. I mean, I feel like no I didn't nostalgia has been a real like, like, not like we'd never had our happy days set, but I mean, everything from the love story showed. Yeah. The way that like gene cuts came back, the way like the 90s, the closest that we had. Also, there's like, I can name 100 bands that sound basically like, yeah, obscure bands from the 90s, but are now like much bigger. It's, it's crazy. I was in, I was in New York a couple of years ago,

and a friend of mine said, she's like, oh, 90s fashion's back. I was like, yeah, kind of. And then four girls walked past us, teenage girls dressed exactly like they walked out of my so-called life. Like exactly, just like the flanels and the docks, and it was just like all

there. I was like, never mind. Yeah, my daughter has begun this. Yeah. She thought love story just

fucking nailed it. She's like, all this stuff you could wear now. She was excited about it. Love stories are good success story. True. I wonder if we're going to get more of those to like the real life stuff with the twist. We watched, when my daughter was home, we watched the entire OJ show that they did 10 years ago. That OJ show? Great. Fantastic. I admire Murphy OJ show. Oh, yeah. It was great. I forgot how awesome the actors were. Like the same people on love story. Paulson's,

like, Adam Control, Courtney Vance's, Adam Control. Like there's like. Like really great Sterling Brown. Troubles to struggle to aim. Troubles to struggle to cube good things really good. Yeah. I emailed Rob Miller. I texted Rob Nelson Hulu and I was like, you guys, you know, we're, it's almost OJ time. It's June 12th. You guys should put this on the on the main page because my daughter didn't know anything. She could be put it on the main page with his own. My daughter

didn't know anything and she like couldn't believe it. She, she didn't know that car chase happened.

“Yeah. And he's, and she's like, I remember that happening when it came out. And we were covering”

again. And I was just like, you had to write explainer posts. You know, this is like what, what happened with the crown, where it's just sort of like the diandesies in the crown. Yeah, it doesn't look like the crown. And don't smell the crown. Don't smell the OJ show. Don't smell what, whether the plane crashes in love story. That's another thing that's going on now. As we have so much good content for the last 25 years that you can just repurpose the content

pretend it's new. And somebody like my daughter would have no idea. What's the true crime story that you would want to tell in a, that story happened? Yeah. You know what the, Koonan and Doc was pretty good. It was too large. The show was too large. That was the Versace one I thought was good. It was just like too many episodes. I don't know, man. I'd, I'd further we get away from that thrones breaking bad, um, what, what else was in that? Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad. Yeah. What was there

to the bit when we were at Grant Land where we just had all those shows. I mean, you could go

“down the list of Americans, uh, justify, just like, yeah, I mean, there was tons of tons of stuff.”

I'll put it comes back to an Robinson. Thanks Chris Redd. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Doc Rivers. Thanks to Chris Ryan and Joe and Robinson. Thanks to Eduardo and Chris and Jack Wilson and everybody on the Spotify and

“Ringer side. I'm not sure if I'm going to be back on this feed this week, but you know,”

where I'm going to be, we have a rewatchable smell bag that's coming on Thursday. So stay tuned for that. It is in the bag that is coming. And then our next three movies, because we are doing

from Helmont and the first one's going to be on Monday. Hand that, uh, no, single-way female on Monday

and hand that rocks to cradle the next week and then the good son. All those movies are enough

“if you want to watch us. So I will see you again on this feed, um, maybe maybe Sunday night.”

Maybe earlier. I don't know, but I'll see you soon. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star Cassino or 18 plus

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