UConn’s Miracle, Weirdest NBA Season Ever, A Scary Playoff Team Draft, and an Iffy Expansion Plan With Zach Lowe

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“It's a Bill Simmons podcast, presented by the ringer podcast network where you can find”

Zach Lowe's podcast, the Zach Lowe show Tuesday, Thursdays, you can also find the rewatchables where it is almost the end of CR mode, Zach. We have LA confidential, it's going to be the last rewatchables we put up on Monday. This was a great basketball weekend. I know you're not a huge college troupe sky, but you are a Connecticut guy, and we had one

of the great comebacks of all time. So we're gonna get a whole bunch of NBA stuff, but we had an unbelievable UConn comeback and game winner against Duke, and I was thinking like, when you have these, when you're

down like basically 20, and you're heading into the second half, and we see this scenario

that be a college all the time. It's basically the two part comebacks followed by some sort of mini marical as the way it goes down, right? You get, you go from 20 to like 11, then you're around between 9 and 11 for a while, and then you make that one last run to get to within two, three, but then you still

need, still need some help, and they got some help. So did you see the last play, and did you feel like that was a great, you come play or a terrible Duke play? First of all, what is the light? This is this is two years in a row that Duke loses late in the tournament and just epic

fashion. We can all agree, anybody but Duke, and just, truly an insane end to the game. I can't say that I saw a lot of it, but I saw the last 30, 40 seconds of the game. You know, I guess Booser got a little flag for what did he panic, couldn't he have just held on to the ball and gotten fouled?

That's a kind of an instinctual play, right? Like this, like you think you'd be in smart by like, "Oh, we're going to run the clock. I'll just lob it up." And it crazy. The flag, he goes a great play, like the steel was great, the pass and pass, back was great.

Obviously, the shot is an all-time killer shot, and Dan Hurley, another round for your Yukon Huskies, baby. It was honestly a great, great, great coach and job. Sometimes I feel like college coaches almost get too much credit because they're the only constants at the schools and they're

at the cameras always showing them.

He was like, not get, they were down 1917, 1915, and he was on the sidelines, like it was a two-point game, just going crazy. He was doing this with the crowd heading into time outs. Yeah, he's just like, "Date Dan's is the end of the cycle." But he just basically wouldn't let them quit.

But I felt like that, first of all, I don't know why every college team doesn't press.

“Like if you have great athletes, I think you should at least know how to like trap press.”

It's to some form, right? So they're basically down to, they missed first free throw, get the second, and we can get the ball back. We practice this, we're ready, and they get porcated and boozer in the middle of the court.

And honestly, it was like, well, those plays were like five things had to happen perfectly at the same time. They send the two guys rushing at him, right? He's got two teammates, wide open, 50 feet away. You can see his thinking, like, you're two guys on me, like, all I got to do is roll

on past the game. The game's over.

But the problem is that because you come practice this all the time, they know, oh, either

he thinks we're going to foul or not. If he starts to throw to the wide open guys, we're just jumping up like this, and they were like synchronized swimmers, the way they both went up at the same time, tipped it. But then the kid had to make a 38 foot shot. And it's not like he was red hot during the game either.

So unbelievable, when I don't know if you see this CBS, they had the camera on Grant Hill and Bill Raftery. I did not. Bill Raftery almost dies. They cut two.

Don't talk about that. I don't talk about that. I don't know. I'm telling you, watch it. He kind of like, it's like, like, he saw like a demonic four centers, like we're something

Daniel's devastated. Did onions come out at all? Did we get an onions? He couldn't speak. But this was a really fun tournament from a talent standpoint.

But the games, I don't think this weekend measured up, and then we got this awesome game. We're going to talk later in a second. We just watched okay, see New York. It was a really interesting SGA MVP movement that happened over the last week, since I saw

“you seven days ago in this podcast when he was minus, I think minus 1500 for MVP.”

By the time we got to this morning, he was minus 320. And everybody had kind of hopped in the WMB MVP car and driven it around a little bit to see how it felt. And we've talked about, I already said that he was the best part I saw in personal year.

I just think this SGA, this is ridiculous. SGA should be the MVP he proved it again today. Are we just bored?

“What's your take on the same SGA versus one B thing?”

No, I don't think we're bored. I think the number one seed would probably have an outsized importance to a lot of voters. I think it's a little silly that, you know, if there's a tie in the spurs when the tie breaker, we give it to Wemann Yamma, if you weigh that reason, that heavily, it's a little silly.

It's, I mean, it is, they have, there are 23 and 1 in the last 24 games. He's played. I mean, something like that.

It does mean something that they just never lose when he plays.

Their net rating is approaching plus 20 per 100 possessions when he's on the floor. Their defense is approaching like ludicrous speed in sane levels when he's on the floor. Yeah. And he is an all-encompassing force on one end of the floor all the time every possession. And the offense is starting to come and you start to figure out where to get his touches,

how to play with all these guards, how not to force things when they're easier ways for him to get buckets and like just suck the entire defense toward him in the lane. I don't, I don't think it's, I don't think, I, with all four of these guys at the top,

“I think you have to sit with each of them because they're each doing such historic stuff.”

But you just come back to, this is going to be, if they hold on, it's a wired, a wire, number one seed for the thunder. It's another year in which a lot of the supporting cast is injured for good parts of the season.

And it's a guard shooting 55% from the floor and being, and being a plus defensively, like

it's just, it's outrageous. It's a guard having as good of a regular season on a really, really good to great team as we've ever had in the league, right? 55% of what we just did over and over again. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, it's on par with Jordan, magic, picking MVP season. So if the spurs were able to pass them and get the number one seed, I'm ready to have that conversation. I just don't think okay, she's going to let it out.

The big thing to me, I, I noticed this over the, like maybe like four or five days ago, I, I started looking this up, the minutes thing with Wendy, and just the history of the MVP, right? He would have, right now, I don't think he's in the top 100 for total minutes played.

“I think he's at, like, it's like 1600, 1650, so it's like that.”

And you go through the history of the award, and I do think this matters, of course it matters. Bill Walton in the 70s season when he got hurt, and they kind of, I wrote about this in my book. It's the weirdest one. They don't kind of don't know who to give it to.

They give it to him anyway, because Portland was the best team. He played 58 games and won MVP that year, and that's the least amount of games somebody's played. If you talk about minutes per game, everybody's 33 and up except for Yana's during the COVID season when he was 30.4, and he played 1917 minutes that year, there's just no precedent

for somebody playing 29 minutes a game, playing about 67, 68 games and winning the MVP. And that's where we'd be with Wendy. He'd be around 65, 66, and he'd be 29 minutes a game on a minutes restriction for a lot of it. You could argue he's been the most impactful guy in the league for the last 10 weeks.

But SJ has either been one, two, two, one, two, for the entire time, and he's on the best team. So unless, unless Santana can pass him, I don't see the case. Yeah, I mean, it's a boring argument to make, and it feels like you're finding the right hair to split to swing an argument, but it's like it's 350 more minutes that SJA has

played than when being blue because like 500 something more minutes in 350 minutes is like seven full NBA games, even if you think when these permanent value or contribution is a tick higher than Shaze, and it's actually hard to find any statistical evidence that has true. But let's just say you believe that it's not 350 minutes difference worth of impact.

Like the extra minutes plus impact is that's a big number. And leaving even leaving a half for 9 to 10 minutes per half is you really have to have a good team at that point. And if you're going to be a 60 win team in your best guys playing 30 minutes, but it also speaks to how good he's been.

Listen, this season was a massive win for him. It's incredible. These four guys are all incredible. Yeah, this is just him being in the conversation and trying and managing to drop the

SJA ads, what SJA didn't get hurt and never stopped in the number one seed, and it's

having one of the great grad season's of all time watching him today, he got 16 free throws today. They didn't replay a couple of the calls. I don't know if that's an edict from the league, like, hey, no, I kiddo KC fans. Most of them were the right call, but he gets the line a lot.

And I think it is part of like winning back to back MVP's.

So he's been better from an efficiency standpoint, yes. I think he's been better at the end of the games. It feels like it's like surprising when he doesn't come through in the last five minutes. You just, like, even the game today, it's like, oh, here we go. This is going to start scoring.

But the big thing is he, there was like a character reinvention in a fun way where they became more villainy, which I think kind of weirdly helps the case, because I was like the think of the MVP years, like, what happened that year, what had like 30 years from now? What happened that year? Oh, what was that year?

And this was like, oh, it's the year S.J. went back to back.

Got better than he was the first year and got a little villainy.

“And that's what I remember from that year.”

So I'm good with it. Is he really any different, is it any, any of this, any different though, or is it just, like if you're, if you're saying they got villainy, what's different? It's the same. They didn't do anything different.

I think we changed. They didn't change because they've been successful. And now I think they've entered that zone that sometimes players and teams can enter where you're like, I feel like these guys. I will say not to not to be the defend the refs guy or defend the thunder guy or whatever,

because I do think it's hilarious that Mike Brown has two technical fouls this year and they're both just losing his shit.

The line of coaches, like these coaches need a support group now with like him and Chris

Finch and all the coaches who have just lost it because of the thunder. But there are even, even in a game where you shoot 16 free throws and there's a cup where you're like, oh boy, did he kick his leg out, that looks a little walkie? There are a couple of drives, like one Mitchel Robinson kind of met him at the Raman. I kind of expected him to get a call and he didn't get a call.

He's just in the pain a lot and it's worth at least noting that even as you maybe are getting enraged at the whistle that he seems to be getting, there are these stray plays here and they're like, oh, he didn't get that call and he fell over. Okay. It's interesting.

Let me be clear, let me be clear. He can get a whistle. It's definitely favorable. So scouts on your podcast on Thursday and I was saying it concurrently, I hadn't heard yours talking about the too many guys theory with okay C. It's one of my favorite theories.

I remember arguing about this with Darrell Murray, I don't know how many years ago. You noticed that again today, they put 11 guys. J-Dub looked way better tonight. That was, I thought the most athletic he's looked since he came back.

“How about the one where he streaked through the entire Nick's roster on a fan rack?”

I'm going to be interested to see how this shakes out with like AJ Mitchell, who I think is really good. I'm a huge fan at the Keysat, a good season. The three-point shots gone a little away from him, but he's just a really good score. Like when he has the body, like four shots in 20 minutes tonight, right?

So they're going to have to figure out how can we, how can we kind of wet the beaks of these other dudes? They also played 11 today, which in the playoffs are not. So I assumed on Thursday that Isaiah Joe, he's probably losing minutes in McCain. Those would be the two guys you grew with that when they cut down the nine.

Those would be the two sufferers. Yeah, even today they're down to 10 and 11 minutes. The interesting one is, is Caruso, because you've been asking like who's in the closing five for the thunder. And I think tonight was yet another tell that Caruso is in the closing five.

And so that's like, who is some of that's going to be hard and seen coming out. Some of it may be door coming out here and there, and it's like case and Wallace won't get as many reps in the closing five.

“But like the two guys who have indisputably, maybe three if you want to include case”

and Wallace, like earned that level of shit. There's only five, but like the guys who qualify or like no brainer, these guys belong in a closing five or Wallace, Caruso and Mitchell have all elevated to that level. Like I trust AJ Mitchell is a closing guy for the thunder. And so it's just like it's going to be match up.

So it's going to be, you know, does this team have a little guard that we won as many guys as possible? They can hunt him on, on when we have the ball, it's going to be really interesting. So, all right, let's play it out there who they're going to play around to Denver, maybe Denver.

Okay. Yeah, I'm guessing it's Caruso, and then either Heart and Steiner Wallace, depending on if I want to go bigger or smaller, and I don't think Dorts out there, which is you can see from last year. You've just benched or you haven't mentioned Mitchell.

And a lot of it, the Denver matchup is a peculiar one because you have the, you know,

okay, choose the second best, best, but whatever whatever you think he is.

And obviously sort of they famously used Caruso on him at the end of that series last year, but really only at the end of it, and other than that, this sort of textbook way you want to guard him is with Heart and Steiner and then have chat on Aaron Gordon, roving around or chat on whoever, roving around.

It's a, it is a, the definition of a first world problem. Yeah, so these are first world problems and great problems, but there are also things

“you have to figure out in extra decisions you have to make as, you know, you're down”

to one in a game forward, somebody's building, where you're down three to and a game six, and you have to make sure you nail this, and, and that's just, it's, last year, I felt like it was a lot more cut and dry, like when we were going on those final games in Indiana, it was like, I know who's going to be out there for them, not positive this time. All right, scary playoff team straft.

Oh, okay. We're doing this right now. We're banging it up. I was not prepared for this, but I'm excited about it. No, we're, we're winning it. I didn't make a list. We're going. Team you don't want to see and a playoff series the most, and it could be any playoff series round one, two, three, four, it doesn't matter. No, it isn't just the best team draft isn't the same thing as the, like, no, it's not, okay, it's a scary playoff team strap. Here's the caveat. I'm getting the completely healthy version of each team.

So I'm giving you the hypothetical sixers. I'm giving you the Celtics, we're how good. Tatum look today. I'm giving you, I'm giving you Charlotte with all their guys, like you name it. I'm giving you Detroit with Cadeback. So we're taking, we're moving, we're going to hypothetical ceiling of each team. Who's the scariest playoff team, too? Not the best, the scariest. What is scariest? Scariest, like, I just, they're unpleasant to play against, or are we talking upset potentially?

The scariest is Oklahoma City still. I took boring answer, but what's your number one? I would have taken, I would have taken St. Antonio first.

Well, either one, that's fine. They're incredible. And Wemby certainly is very scary.

Here's why I think it's St. Antonio from a ceiling potential standpoint. I'm worried they have one more level in them. I know what okay sees levels. We know what, we know what it is. I don't know what it is with St. Antonio. I almost don't have a ceiling for the house for them. And it might be what we're seeing now, but I keep taking back to a couple times over history with these young teams that skyrocketed and also what's happened to them over the last two months.

And that 91 bulls analogy with them, or the 86 rockets, they might just be ready now. And if they're getting the Wemby that we've seen the last 10 weeks, I think I'm the most scared of that, because you put that in a playoff series with the energy of a playoff series. And just what Wemby can do psychologically, combine with this okay see, just trying to figure out who they are as good as they are right now. I think I'd be the most scared. Like, if I'm the seven

seed, if I'm Phoenix, if my more bummed out than I'm playing San Antonio or okay see. You're just happy to be there. What if what a great season for the Phoenix son. Sorry, but I think you're probably, I think you want to, I don't know. It's a good question. This is why this is a good question. Well, it's because it's the experience factor, right? Like, I can't you see Dylan Brooks in the locker room being like,

these guys have never been here before. Like, we can pump these guys and get a not

Wemby down. I'm going to, I'm going to get into Wemby watch. I'm going to wrap all of them. He's good throwing elbow at me. Like, can you just see that conversation unfolding?

“I could. That's what you would talk yourself and know if you're playing essay.”

But guys haven't been here before. We can get to them. We can, but we could knock down Wemby. We can beat him up. No layups for him. Hit him every time he's trying to duck. You know, I mean, I think the first can win the title. I am not super rattle by the, I mean, by the all of NBA history essentially suggesting that you cannot just go in and win the title. Unless you're a completely remade team like the 2008 Celtics or something like that.

But we did the deep dive on here a few weeks back. Like, to me, the combination of like Fox and Wemby I'm playing a full season. It's almost like a free agency coup, right? Wemby I'm a leveling up like this. Fox playing a full season. I think they can win the title. I'm not worried about the lack of experience at all. But, you know, it does cut against NBA history. And yeah, they're, they're absolutely terrifying to play against. And I think these are the top two

picks no matter how you slice it. So you go when A1B. Yeah, because I mean, I'm one of the ones who's

“who say that I think you need to taste your own blood and a playoffs before you come in the title.”

So here's the thing. History says they're not going to win the title this year because it

doesn't happen. History also said we weren't going to be able to have a seven foot seven guy who's this athletic and it's just a fucking alien. By the way, for what, maybe you don't care. I'm not you. Maybe you the aggregate you of basketball fans don't care. Like, to do showed up in like the gold medal game of the Olympics in his home country against Team USA and like wanted every bit of that game and that matchup and wanted every bit of Germany and Serbia and everyone else that they

Yeah, one thing, this is what I've heard from people who've spent time around him. I don't, he's, he's a typical from the previous generation. He doesn't want to be buddies with a lot of these guys. He's not like, oh, cool. I can't, I can't wait to get to know Luke Dutchage better. He wants to like destroy all these dudes. He's got a little bit of that Kobe MJ gene.

“That I think, um, could pay, could pay handy in the playoffs. Finals MVP,”

Fandle allows you to bet on this and the spurs odds like four days ago were like plus 550 to win the title and six to one for Wemby to win finals MVP. That's not dropped. He's plus 550 for

finals MVP and Shay is plus 145 and that seems completely fair. You have the third pick in the

scary draft. It's where it gets interesting. It does indeed get interesting, um, but we have the same team. I despite the fact that I just watched the Utah Jazz score like 110 points in the pain against the other night. I'm still picking Denver as the third scary team because I just know what those two dudes can do together. You and I also the same day on different podcasts on knowingly talked about is there now a second team all NBA case for Jamal Murray with some of these guys falling

by the. And him having a sensational season. And yeah, they're defensive and shredded right now.

“I think it's part of, you know, everyone working their way back to conditioning, back into chemistry,”

baggling, I'll paint Watson's just going back. Aaron Gordon's been in the lineup and on and on. Part like we're playing some teams. We don't respect at all. Like we know we're going to just win the game. And part, you know, wake us up in the playoffs. Now, I don't think there's like a top 10 defense hiding inside the number 22 or 23 rank defense or whatever they're on the NBA. But I think they're better than they've shown. They have won a championship recently and they have the best two man

game in the league. And so I'm still taking Denver three. Have you seen Gordon looks fine? But he looks yeah. He looks mostly like Aaron. It looks fine. Mostly. I feel like he's driving the car right now and he's driving like he's in fourth gear, driving about like 55 in the Mayor Parkway, hasn't really swung over into the fast lane yet. Just kind of cruising along. There's another

“gear for him. That's why I don't know what to do with their defense yet because we haven't seen him”

do the crazy Aaron Gordon stuff it. I also had them third. And I think the Celtics have to be fourth,

especially if you saw what Jason Tatham did today, which he looked he looked the most like Jason Tatham that he's looked all season. Even kind of yelled at the crowd like he's got he's getting a swagger back where I mean, is there like a new England transplant community in Charlotte? It sounded like half I mean, I know the Celtics are one of these teams. The fans travel. There's fans everywhere. But that was extremely loud in an arena that has been a like a very good home court arena

for Charlotte and every other game I've seen even like the nicks did not have that much of a presence in fan-wise. The next had some Philly had a bunch yesterday and the Celtics had the most. But I this seems to be like a recurring theme with these road games with the Celtics. I guess the bigger question is do are the this Boston just have the most transplants? Are they just are they're just Boston? Boston sells of people planted in every city. It feels like because it happens

at baseball too. It's been happening with the Red Sox for around 20 years. The case for the Celtics I mean, Tatham just came in today with no Jayland Brown or no Derek White and just basically ran the offense and looked like the old Tatham again. They have all of these bench guys that just seen be interchangeably effective and they kind of have everything. You mentioned the bench guys one of the notes I took during the game today was I cannot believe that after losing all the

guys the Celtics lost in the offseason that they were able to put out a credible lineup in a competitive game in the second half with Tatham at center. So all wings and guards on a night that Jayland Brown and Derek White did not play and you're like yeah all these like I trust all these guys Jordan

Walls. Yeah sure, you know, Shireman you're good. It's just incredible how far all of these

guys have come and makes you appreciate all the work that must have been going on behind the scenes with the player development coaches because it's just like that would have been unthinkable before the season and yet here they are and they blitz Charlotte and I'll tell you the plays that if I'm if I were a Boston fan the what the Tatham plays that most heartened me were the two pick and rules where he crossed up Calk Brenner in a deep drop and just went full blast right at him and

finished over and threw him like that was those are high level athletic plays and he may not be

I mean the efficiency starting to come now too but just I test I can't believe how good he looks.

Everything is back except for blocks and free throw attempts from the stats from the last five years. The game today he looked the further the song I was thinking about something I would love with the Celtics have really good reporters I would love for somebody to ask Tatham this specifically. I think he's a better passer than he was and I wonder when you sit and you watch basketball for what was it four and a half five months we were just on the bench like a fan which he's

these guys have been playing games non-stop since they're six years old you go to college you play you're in the pros he's playing all the time. I'd love to know like just sitting on the bench for that long and just watching like did anything about basketball change for him because I feel like

“things slow down for him a little and I think he's seeing passing angles that I don't remember him”

seeing in the same way and I thought he was a good passer like he average six assists last year it sounded like he wasn't a good passer but something slightly different and I wonder if it's that. Well these guys just keep getting better in different ways like jail and brown level up and the more experience you have the more you learn but I do think there's probably something to not only watching it from that angle but watching your teammates all thrive in elevated roles

and say okay like that you know maybe I this past that maybe I wouldn't have thrown I can throw this summer don't you think and and I mean this the complete opposite way from like engaging to your turn my turn concerns but don't you think these two games without jail and brown must be super super good for Tatum just to like feel yeah that the full breath of his game like all right like and one without Derek way too like I can I can I can do this and sort of get in even more of a rhythm

“yeah I mean look I think those guys are great I don't think there's any sort of alpha dog car keys stuff”

but that's guys have been playing they want to title together but I'm sure deep down there's for three percent of Tatum like yeah this team's running really good with jail and brown I wonder what it would be like if I was just in his spot for two games and guess what they didn't miss a beat with him in the same spot so I do think that's part of it I also think what you said we're talking about watching the teammates I do think wonder if that's part of it too where you're just sitting on the

bench watching these guys and you're noticing little things about them that you would have noticed if you're on the court with them in the same way right like oh sharm and loves that spot or just little stuff but the way he's fit in so seamlessly I think speaks to that he stayed with the team and I think some of these guys would have just gone and worked off on their own and you know kind of popped in and out he was with the team all the time we had to take a break the scary playoff

draft is about to get really fun because we have a San Antonio okay see okay see Sanitator and Denver Boston and now it's gonna get serious but we're in take a break first this episode of the bill some of his podcast is presented by Sam's Club it is that time of the year when you just got to get in your car and go somewhere then that plenty of times of my life nowhere gets you ready to go quite like Sam's Club snacks the gear super low prices on gas they got a bunch of stuff that keep

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all right scary playoff team straft I'm on the edge of my seat this is one series only San Antonio Casey Denver Boston off the board who do you have Zeclo well tell you what don't have

they were lowered by let's say through Orlando magical not be my selection of holy smokes that

“feels like that's that's an uh oh that's a I mean we're already an uh oh stage like the official”

uh oh was when Palo had the like yeah we don't make adjustments coming out of halftime thing in Jamal Moses like well the only adjustment to Troy Bay was to play really hard losing to the raptors by 50 something points is an official like everyone's on notice so I'm not taking Orlando well they've lost seven of their last eight the one loss was to the one wind or the one wind was to Sacramento and there's a thing on NBA reddit right now that's it's called low light

this is the headline three hours ago arguably the worst stretch of basketball in NBA history

a compilation of all Orlando magic possessions during Toronto's 31 to nothing run

this is a four minute youtube clip that you could easily find now that's a cry for help no I've been watching games all night and not engaging with I haven't been on Twitter I would like been following is is that the biggest run it's like something to zero run in the history of the NBA yes they said as far back as they've ever measured play by play but they don't know it might have happened in like 1948 there's some years missing years anyway who's your fifth pick I will go

you know against my better judgment I will go with the nicks as the fifth pick is a draft I still have them fifth I still respect this core another loss to the thunder tonight you know got blitz by the hornets the other night in Charlotte so it's not it's not trending great we're back on like the the cat seesaw where it's like cats invisible cats being benched cat has taken three shots and then cat has like 12 points and two minutes and everything's fine

and cat like I it's just blows my mind how often we ride the same roller coaster with him I still think there is when they click they can reach a pretty goddamn high level and they are top six on both ends of the course so I and yet there are all these reasons where you're like do you do I really trust them against the best best teams but I'm still taking the nicks and it's worth noting they don't hate the Celtics matchup that that is looming in the second round of the play shouldn't

that's a team they've had a lot of success against they should not hate it um

lot of next questions for me but mainly why is this team always down 10 to 12 points against good teams

and they're the rallying back or they don't but why why is everything so hard with the next and they have that they have a I the starting lineup has just been okay and not not as good as it should be given the high wattage people that are in it

“I just don't know what the right move is they started remember the stay started season with”

hard coming off the bench and immediately concluded like this guy the heartbeat of our team we can't function without him the obvious one would be bridges I just don't think 70 something games into the season they have the where was all to do it and so but yeah and now they have do smick bright back so they have the they have a deep roster that they've got to figure out now too assuming and get her today that's true that there was that just though there's just dork four dork collisions every game

where it's just like okay there's there's there's the dork the dork pile over there yeah he's really the he's carrying the torch from Bruce Broin the old Ron our test there's a certain guys these accident seem to find them somehow I had the lakers in the five spots so I'm taking him here for one series if if I know smart and the Bronner healthy and I have to play Luca and I have to beat them four times in seven and I'm also looking at some of the foul stuff

that happens with them that we don't need to belabor um you bring it up every time you can't

“stop there like five more free throw attempts to game I think for the last five years and I just”

think they're really hard to play especially thin in these games when it's a two point game with four minutes left you just feel like they're gonna win and they could have two guys on the court that are just complete zero's offensive way and it doesn't seem to matter for them and I would not want to see them in a play of series so I'm taking them fifth who do you have so we're just to be clear we're just doing like scary teams we're not doing like if the bracket the bracket

breaks like this just not just peer scaring us then with apologies to Detroit and I guess Cleveland I'm I'm going Minnesota and it's been a rocky month for Minnesota with ant out of the line up in the last few games every time you think Randall has like rediscovered his verval a little bit even if it's like an eight of nineteen game but he looks frisky and he's doing he's doing something

now no JD McJay knows that game no ants whatever but I always been out the last couple

“games too that's a little problematic I don't I think he has a calf thing that that's a scary word”

the C word calf I guess the new C word that's a great point yeah yeah it's the C word we'll call the NBA C word the NBA C word I like look conference finals two years in a row scoff added a few wish I owes the perfect bench addition for them and they have a guy they have one guy who is just like you what you talk about Luca being terrifying in a play of series absolutely Luca is terrifying anti-air words can can reach his version of that terror alert level so I'm going

to stop sticking with you talking about bones island well bones way way to the bench baby bones

bones get bones listen for a play of series these are the kind of guys that swing a play of series

when bones island just says thirty in a game four absolutely seen it I like the Minnesota pick I thought I was inspired and you've inspired me as well see this game you were dubious of you were like oh not just the best now you now you get it which is why this is where we're going for the next pick this is the eighth pick resetsy bias there's no way it'll continue for an entire play absolutely I don't care oh no I don't care it's that stuff is scary that was unbelievable yesterday

and bead was awesome in that game including the winning block where they showed to replay and both of his feet were like a foot off the floor Paul George had a twenty six and thirteen this is again Charlotte for the people who missed this maxi look great and I thought the team was really locked in wanted the game I thought they really intimidated Charlotte and some of the stuff they did defensively I was I was kind of shocked by they were blitzing those little handoff things and

this little pick and pop plays they do they're picking up the mellowed half court they were really physical I just thought I thought it was like a playoff performance that granted Charlotte probably didn't see it coming Charlotte put the next Thursday the the Celtics today it was the same which game I was impressed so for I don't think they're the one they one of the eight best teams but from ceiling scaringest standpoint they're number eight from what and we're talking one series right

like we're not talking like can this team hold together for three playoff rounds or four which is because I don't think we know that and your your caveat at the beginning was you get the fully healthy version of this team so like that's the version that has existed for maybe 72 hours in the last calendar year but yes sure I'm I it's it's now is the time it's as we've waited too long Cleveland is my pick the Cleveland Cavaliers Jared Allen got back

healthy extremely dynamic top for Struc's back tons of options for like the remainder of the minutes with all the guards that they have just it just feels like it's been an a season for the calves in a lot of different ways they had to get off a garland they have James Hardin who I know you don't trust in nor should we in a game six or game seven of a playoff series even Donovan Mitchell's in a slump right now Jared Allen's coming off neat ten tonight is Evan

Mobileys just he's very good and he's not making the next leap to great that we're all sort of

“waiting for Struc's been out the whole year I think this is a really good team I cut they're actually”

one of the more I still don't really know what to make of them I think it's been about 20 games with hard and their offense has been sensational their defenses been crap but the big four guys have barely played any minutes together and if there's one thing that I'm really curious to watch for these last six seven eight games half of which are just tankathons around the league it's that it's I want to see those four guys Mitchell Hardin, Mobiley Allen how does that look together

because I think there's a really high ceiling here that it feels like the NBA cognizantty is just sort of moved away from them and in this like Boston hoopla which is very well deserved with Tatum going back and all the stuff going on out west and what Kate and is he gonna come back healthy Cleveland just kind of there to the side and I think we got to bring them back center stage a

“little bit sometimes this is not your year starting starting to wonder if that's what we've said”

that about Denver too right who was the third pick in the draft Denver obviously has a player

Denver better than anyone they have tell you this about as a Cavs fan wouldn't be happy about the Quippers box course lately and they're net reading with Garland on the floor as well has been I've been none of none of what has happened with Deris Garland on the Quippers would make me happy if I could have said no because you just did the rarely seen old guy for a guy about to hit his prime who had kind of had a rocky couple years but there were real reasons for our

going to be the fourth seed in the east you just went 10th that our scary team strapped which

but which as you gave up Garland which as you noted though fourth if that's indeed where they end up and they have a very easy schedule it's a great fourth is a great spot maybe that's part of this is they're delighted to be fourth and you know who we haven't drafted yet in the scary teams

“draft well you you're not up yet I know can take I'm not no I have to trade okay that's what I'm”

talking about like oh I thought you were talking about another team yeah it's the trait and I said this to Goldsbury Thursday and a weird way not having cade for a couple weeks and seeing this new level for Jenkins maybe will help them in the playoffs but I still wonder I don't I don't think they they have holes that I just worry about with some of the

teams that they're going to have to play with like when they played the Celtics and the Celtics can

throw those two big wings at them, Tatum and Brown and their wings are Tobias Harris and Robinson and herder and jubonte green like the star Thompson the star Thompson will be harassing somebody well but he's probably going to have to guard one of the guards on the Celtics right like wait or I don't see that's the part I don't know I just feel like there's a physicality with the two wings that they're going to have issues with. A star Thompson now winning the Thompson

Brothers who's having a better season contest now he's like minus 200 hard disagree.

“I think I listen to you it's a great I listen to you and Kirk on on Thompson”

I don't in Thompson apologies no I just like in what in what I don't know if people's expectations

for him just got out of control you guys were talking like he's having like he's trending down

Kirk said he's trending the wrong way maybe not a number of guards in anymore but no one guarded him ever he's he's I thought he was going to get better at it though he's 23 years old he's averaging 18 eight rebounds five assists a game after averaging 14 eight rebounds four assists a game yes he's shooting a little bit worse this year 56% on Tuesday down from 60% on Tuesdays free throws are by the way quietly and this is the most encouraging part he's shooting 78%

from the line which which but I I just to me he's more or less kind of what I expected him to be this year I did not think that he was going to be like oh now suddenly it's he's going to be a point garden he's going to be a 20 in point eight assists guy that's not who he is and in fact they'll look they're just the weirdest team in the league which one would you rather have I'm and over over us are yeah I mean they're both awesome I would love to have either one of them

“on my team I think he has a little bit more offensive creativity to him now he's been able to show”

that more than a star has but I am curious to see now that I mean the Houston is the weirdest team they are unwatchable one night if they're not been drafted yet interesting no and I don't think they're going to be next but I am interested to see more of this okay we've now committed to starting read shepherd in part because Tarysan has made a shot in three months and he's left us no choice but to start read shepherd but now we've started read shepherd that puts on

men Thompson I think it to a a more natural role for this stage of his career and I'm interested to see just sort of how that looks I took to trade so now here the team's out well there's one to it we'll go faster I can't wait to get to see whose last who do you have next I just took to trade where do we we're cutting off at the 10 teams in each conference that are in that's we're doing well but we can go fast I'm more interested to see who goes last of course you are so we

can't pick the hypothetical bucks with the honest is it only 10 games out there you picked it to trade so that leave Charlotte Atlanta the clippers are all left to run or all left Charlotte no question I think this is actually I want to say it's too low for Charlotte but I don't know who I would remove you know it's weak and for Charlotte interesting moment actually for Charlotte because it's been nothing but you know flowers and candy for three months and three months is

not a short amount of time they've been like number one or number two in that rating for a long half this season now and they've been looking at this stretch of their schedule as okay let's see what this looks like and they started off with just rock his home went over the next that feels like all right we've arrived everyone's watching this game this is the kickoff of a brutal end of our schedule and we just like ace the test Philly comes in that's it you know when I think Charlotte

should expect to win that game based on how these teams of play this season and Philly sneaks it out in the end and it's like oh and Charlotte Charlotte blew the game too well and but it's like they're in the bonus with like seven minutes left and I don't know that gave me a little nervous because the crowd got nervous and their offense fell apart and everybody all the sudden looked

this stuff with net rating and you actually have to use your savvy in games like this and it

didn't really have yet today back to back find Boston was rested they were in Charlotte last night back to back off a tough game but no Derek white no jail and brown and kind of got outclass and a little frazzled offensively now I still think they're an extremely dynamic and

“very dangerous team but this is they play the nicks I think on Tuesday or Wednesday this is an”

interesting little moment for them like at Madison Square Garden coming off these two losses you know and real stuff at stake like you want to get to eighth at the very least you want to get to eighth to get into the top half of the play in game like I'm very interested to see

how they respond but the track record of the last three months is holy crap so I'm very

happily taking them here they were before the game yesterday they were number one in net rating for 40 games 40 games is half the season every sort of net rating thing they were number one number two number three if you did 25 games 20 30 the last two games were not great though and I do think they have a flaw other than the lack of experience I don't have anyone on their team who can guard those maxi Mitchell types and you could say oh well nobody has a guy like that well then there's

also Brunson you go on down the line and it's just those guys kind of can do whatever they wanted and Charlotte so that's one thing and then you know they they looked a little small again some

bead a lot of teams do but physically I thought they had grant limbs on him in the fourth quarter

kind of cause they didn't really have any other options right so that didn't bother much their year away I think is my point but I do think if I had to pick who could go further in a play in the playoffs Charlotte or Philly I would take Charlotte who would I be more scared of for one series Philly forgive me I get the hypothetical hypothetical sixers I get it and bead is and bead just walks into 30 points and that 20 footer thing he does it's just automatic I mean it's

it's like you're surprised you miss it two two two and then I'll suddenly shooting and it just works every time but it's a good point about maxi because I watch and I was you know tracking who they assigned to maxi and it was kinnipple at start of each half and like you know we all love carpool con as van calls him but that's a tough match up for him and it but it's it like it feels like it shouldn't be branded Miller but brandy Miller often needs to

start somebody bigger or is not quite ready for yet then it's like all right see on James we got to play you more that's probably bad for our offense but can you come on Josh Green like it's

“it's a tough matchup and then and bead bullying them like you said you know that's how the”

brawl started the jail and during was just like oh we should be about to hear an awesome story we love the alers guests on the podcast all that but like how about I just beat the shit out of you because I'm like much much of a 50 pounds heavier than yeah con was I think we'll kind of lamele together were 10 for 40 yesterday they're not winning many games with that no but part of it was because con had to chase around maxi for all bunch of it see I'm making these pieces all right we'll

go quickly I'll take a Atlanta next so which let's go rapid fire here and see who's last Houston I'll go clipers now we're now I'm now it's now it's getting grim now it's grim for me so I can't theoretically make Jimmy Butler healthy right that doesn't count he's he's okay that would be bending the rules Miami okay I'll take Toronto so we're left oh god okay all right you know what I'm gonna happily take the warriors because

I get I'm theoretically healthy step in healthy porzingus let me see it let's go like I'll go to warm with those guys I'll go okay I'll take them I'll take Phoenix then oh I forgot about Phoenix well you can have Phoenix I'll take gold stick no I'm taking gold stick come on Jeff even for I'll take Phoenix even for just nostalgia I'm taking golden state support lens last no we've you forgot we have there's two teams left who else is you someone else is so

last that you forgot that they're even in the draft who was it Orlando oh yeah I skipped over them

“yeah they're they're last after that I mean they're last I think they lose yeah they lose”

or then you lose if you if we do this draft on the day you give up a 31 oh run you come last you lose you lose there's no every year a coach gets fired with like two weeks to go that's not gonna happen in Orlando is it I don't think so it's actually a conversation I've had with a few people and coaching agents around the league is you know we're a year removed from the Adam and Taylor Jenkins

that certainly feels like a scorching seat right now a couple other quick things that so if we don't get curry and we're close to knowing whether we're gonna get curry or not

Kurt's basically said if he doesn't get a couple ramp up games TM LeBron James if you

did who's the key who started ramp up and beat is ramping up all the time TM and beat the nine ten play in game in the West with no curry do we even televised it should it just be terrestrial radio what do we do with that game tape delay we go back to tap Portland Portland going state do we do maybe and I I broadcast I keep AI characters I can't believe you're saying this about a scootender's in team of all people

“you should be that's this is a good chance I'm saying now every every third game is this to me”

I can't I can't he's showing some signs I'm saying but then it then there'll be every third game it's like he had how many turnovers but I'm still I wouldn't you got a hold until the end Miami today was so bad losing to Indiana team that was the first tanking team that actually um had people making like Shawshank Warden

people telling the Indiana Warden telling Jay Huffy estimates the two free throws kind of jokes and Indiana just killed Miami today and it is definitely doesn't want to win any more ever and Miami lost to them by 15 and and they beat the pace of the beat Orlando last week too Miami seems happy to be the 10 seed and I wonder if it's intentional because it's actually a better draft pick and they probably feel like what do we care we get to the plan we could be

any of these teams anyway so let's just mess around that's the only other explanation other than their terrible so I'll give you those two choices like we don't really care where we are

“or we're just we have been good this whole time I think it's more closer to just we're a pretty”

mediocre team okay March bandest stuff really quick I asked you to look up oh yeah so the lottery you're not a lottery guy but I I asked you to go look at some clips because we have two different things happening with the NBA draft we have the top four which everybody's now going to argue about all four guys are now out of the NCAA tournament Debanta Darren Peterson Cam Booser Caleb Wilson I am I do have to say I am going to miss dad Carlos Booser dropping F bombs in the stands that was

the time in the same John's crowd yeah those are good so we have those four and that's going to be a great argument in itself of just who and a lot of it's going to turn in on who gets the top four picks on us five six seven has now turned into its own awesome argument and it's buries from Arizona who I absolutely love and I think it's my favorite I don't think he's going to be the best part

in the draft but I think he's my favorite woggler on a Illinois who's been just incredible and has

dragged him to the final four and a cuff on Arkansas and they're going to go five six seven in some order and some of it's going to depend on who has those picks because if you have a point guard maybe you take buries but I just ask you to look at their YouTube clips really quickly and give me your Malcolm God will blink test of what you saw so we'll do let's do buries first what you say I really enjoy just getting giving myself just enough knowledge to be dangerous to have

strong opinions that's what I was hoping for based on being done by buries I may have liked the best of the three super physical like play plays bigger than his height and his size plays defense jumper looked like the release was a little slow at times but when he needed to speed it up he sped it up from what I saw active off the ball like all these guys you need to be a good offball

“player too and I think a cuff is too like you need to learn how to play off the ball is a secondary”

ball here and there's like a lot of back cuts and coming out pin downs in the buries in the buries tape but I he he plays I think he was listed as six four a cuff is listed as six three he plays bigger than six four and just the physicality was was kind of interesting to me he's definitely a little booker-ish when you I don't like and he was he won the state title on

California last year and was an awesome offense apart high school Arizona has a million guys

so they don't need the offense same way so there's some Steph castle potential with him where there's more there we're just not seeing it because he's trying to win a title the defense rebounding hustle stuff competitive stuff I just have zero deaths give me all the

if it was a team that didn't need a forward and was like you know what we really need is a two guard because he's like perfect two guard so we're aligned he's my favorite would you I have a specific thing for Wagner but what did you think when you saw him weird weird player and actually it watched a little bit of their lead-a game too because their team Croatia their team Yugoslavia like they've just it's like a whole Yugoslavia team this is is migrated there he's he's a very weird

player he moves and I don't mean that in a bad way he just has weird movement patterns like like a lot of stepbacks a lot of spin moves he's obviously the tallest of the three and he levered

“is that for all it's worth I think he's only he only hit like 47-48% on twos which is a little”

discouraging but the guy can really shoot and he can pass he's just he's the weirdest of the three and the one that I was like I need to actually watch even more on this guy because he's a little easel strange but clearly there's something there to me there's a lot of AJ Mitchell but the ceiling would be higher but same kind of like very unconventional weird herky jerky game be like fronts and they obviously have different bodies but he just kind of noticed how to play

basketball and how to get shots that he wants to get and doesn't really seem to care how many tall guys are around him what the angles are uh there's a competitiveness with him that I think the tournament sometimes we can overreactive but I think it matters that he was the best guy in the team knows in 11 seed that dragged him there I also liked that he's an overachiever he wasn't a top 100 recruit he wasn't like in the espantau puncher so he's been like a late bloomer

and I like that those guys have the chip on their shoulder I have a cuff I had a him but I think it's I think it's it's 50-50 I'd like I'd like to watch more because I did find myself thinking as I watched 11 minutes on YouTube to be clear yeah yeah it's with the blink test scout I did find myself thinking how does this translate to a league where everybody's a little taller than the guys that he's facing now

“right his height is a little bit less of a superpower at the guard spot um well that's what I think”

about with cambooser because I I watched a lot of Duke the last five weeks his his big go-to move is he basically he bullies you and he does these little spin moves and ends up with like the same

either jump hook or a little turnaround and his goal is always to get as close to the basket as possible

which you can do in high school and you can even do in college and I don't know if you can do it in the post in the same way as comfortably and what he never really seemed to shoot was that little 12 to 13 footer that co-opied on Arizona has um I think co-opied is basically kind of Booserish I'm sure somebody at some point will roll out a take of co-opieds actually gonna be better than cambooser and here the five reasons why but he has this really nice foul line jumper that he's

always setting up and Booser is always in that that's the kind of stuff you just don't know until

“you get to the NBA and all of the sudden you know jaren dern's waiting for you I don't know why I”

call him jaren dern I will say what do you have for a cuff by the way well hold on I want to talk

about cambooser for a second I'm just looking at the box where from so again I put that stats every

game I want to watch I want to sit down and watch more because I've very limited information you're gonna have to this year because this is a like a once in a decade top nine I so this is the only cambooser experience I have was uh Friday night fifth grade play at my daughter's elementary school we have some people over afterwards everyone wants to have the Duke game Duke St John's obviously we're in St John's country St John's America's team anyone playing Duke

is America's team so yeah I'm just winning we throw it on so it's on in the background we're talking they're social I can't say I'm watching it carefully but when I looked up I was like okay

I'm a little underwhelmed like I was excited for my first like a big game look at cambooser

and he put up numbers and he was like good but I expected him to pop a little bit more than he did in that game that's not what he does he's I'm trying to have a score player though right he's just like a good he's a good bat really smart is in the red spots he's cool as a cucumber and he gets his stats but the Caleb Wilson you'll somebody will cut an 11 minute Caleb Wilson tape and you're gonna be like is this guy Janis like that's the difference between those two

A cuff so I'll go A cuff really quick smooth as so like just so smooth if you were two or three inches taller would he be in the conversation be the number one picking the draft because he's just yeah the change of pace the hesitation the variety of finishes to self the control the mid-range

like I was going to kind of shade like in the way that he just knows how to get a little bit of separation one way or another not not as blow away as an athlete to shade not as big as shape but just so smooth so under control I can see why everybody loves him so much a lot of Kyrie it's a little crisp all in there like game manager general stuff it's just his ball this team it's got to rebound they just it's one of those we'll see with the size that people are worried about the

defense with them and like I don't know how many point cards that we had that were awesome where they weren't good defensively and it was fine I'm not a I'm not as worried about the defenses other stuff okay I won't talk about expansion really quick because I have a bunch of intel

“layout I'm laying out well I'm interested in your take on some of this stuff I think this is a fascinating”

sports story because of how the league is handled this with the reality of it is versus what they presented to the fans and to the media they've made it seem like what's your take as you read all this stuff what is your take on will expansion happen all that but like just knowing nothing or knowing what you've read and that's it I mean all right if I if I excised all the private conversations have had to say like it seems like it's on the path to happening that I'm

so far as basically announced like barring someone for seeing circumstances we're having a biggest human of Seattle team right so if you live in Seattle and you read and consumed all the stuff

the last week or so you're like this is amazing we're getting the Sonic's back here we go

that's not what's happening and I think it's really weird how the league is handling this because

“there's two things going on one is they don't have the votes and two this is a two-part process”

where part one is you get the 30 owners together and they'll have to vote need 23 votes to proceed and basically silver is going I want to see what we can get for these two teams we've decided it's going to be Seattle and Vegas we haven't decided for expanding it but let's see what kind of price we can get for each of those and then I'll bring that back to you and we can vote on it so the analogy would be you live on a block and two people sold their houses on your block and you're going huh

that those went a little higher than I thought should we sell our house and your family goes we don't want to move what do we want to sell our house friends like well I'm just gonna ask a realtor like what they think we could get the realtor goes all right all I'll ask around and see what it's worth it's basically what silver is doing that's not how it's presented and what's really

“interesting not only do they not have the votes but I think it got a little testy in the border”

border governors when they were all together last week with some people are like why are we doing

this I'm never voting for this this is stupid we're not doing this but and I think what's happening

really if you want a big deeper is there's this new generation of owners a little like what we had 20 years ago with Cuban and Whick Roseback like the younger guys that were coming in and they just kind of thought about the league differently I think that's happening again so you have chism who just got the Celtics you have Ryan Smith who just got Utah you have Furtita and Houston who's been there for a while but I still think he's closer to the newer generation the old one you have the

Charlotte guys that just got the team you've issued being Phoenix and you have a rod and Lorraine Minnesota all those guys intend on owning their teams for a while right they bought in they want to win a title they want to compete if you're doing this you're bringing two more franchises into the league now I have a one and thirty two chance of winning the title not one and thirty right so now I just have two more people I have to compete against that's one thing I'm giving up

two thirty second of my media share I go from one thirty to one thirty second and I don't really see the point of why I'm doing that these guys are out these guys are out rich for a reason what's why would I do this seems to be the prevailing theme now I'm talking about Dolan who's been against this from the get go how about the guy I was just bought Portland Dundin right why would he want a Seattle championship team two hours away he's not voting for this

how about rich competitive dudes like Balmer what does Balmer want more teams in the league for what is he care about five hundred million dollars you know oh every if we sell for eight billion each everyone

gets a check for five hundred million I have more on that in a second too what is he care he just

wants to win the title he you're making his odds worse you take this media money away and then there's wildcard don't like Joe size another one he doesn't need money

so I just listed that's one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen owners that I'm not either I know they're against it or they're you know probably not so that's one thing

the other thing is in the hypothetical fairytale world where they could get eight billion a team do you

know if I can hard that is to get eight billion dollars where you'd have to write an eight billion dollar check for a team and people point to the lakers went for ten billion they didn't really go for ten billion it was like four seven because the guy already owned a big chunk of the team he definitely got outside investor money to help him out with it I don't know if he had to pay for it all once same thing for chism he was able to get the material family from india to throw in a billion dollars they inherited

all this debt like he basically scraped it together Minnesota took them four years just to pay what one point seven billion something like that you top paid one point four I don't think they have

any chance of getting eight billion dollars the more people I talked to and the more people I look

“at it and I think Adam is floating it out like that's the number who's paying that and why would”

you pay eight billion dollars for a team in Seattle so hey I don't think they have the money I don't think they have the money lined up I don't think they're groups out there be I don't think the owners are going to necessarily vote for it even if they do get eight billion a team and if it's like five to six they're definitely not voting for it and I don't really understand the point at any of this why not just be transparent and say hey we're just curious to see what we get for these expansion

teams this doesn't mean we're gonna have expansion instead you've completely led this poor Seattle people on who now think they're getting a team and I don't know if that's true so that's my that's my ran I think that's all fair and certainly eight to ten billion dollars you have a very narrow universe of potential buyers assuming you don't I mean you don't want a 20 person group coming in because that's proven problematic and other places have he so many minority owners it's a very

small universe of people and yeah I mean Adam at one point in the press conference last week was careful to say you know we didn't approve expansion today we approved the exploration of expansion

“but it does I mean they've they they 28 29 kind of came out I don't remember the exact”

origin of like who said that first and when that came out but it certainly was not like rebutted by the league office when 28 29 is like these teams starting came out and like that's aggressive I mean it's 26 right now like that's there's a lot to do to get a team up and running and you raise like I like I like to go back and listen to it because when I had it should be on my show a couple months ago at your house actually I recorded at your house yeah I asked him

about this and he was he was a little non let's say I basically asked him do you think they have the votes like he was pretty non commit all about it and I just sort of put that in the back of my mind they don't have the votes I'm just telling you they don't now whether they can swing in a couple people maybe like even I noticed Houston did you follow that them getting the WMBA 10 to 300 million yeah is that a scratch your back now you scratch mine with a vote kind of

situation because that was really weird that Houston who already lost the WMBA team just took a team from Connecticut that why wouldn't that go to the Celtics when the Celtics wanted it or another

“city like I thought that was weird I think all this is really weird and I don't understand why”

it was presented the way it was and that when my shit detector started going off it was a Monday

morning news news leak which is we know Monday morning is always when you put a story out trying

to set the tone for the week and they put it out in a way that made me think this almost seems like they're testing this out to see what the reaction is like they're either trying to convince the fans this is a good idea or they're trying to convince the votes that they don't have that this is a good idea so I do not think they have the votes let's flip it around what why is it like like why is it a good idea like is beyond like it would feel good to have the sonic back with

you like writing a wrong and Vegas is Vegas like what what is the if financially it's it's murky enough that some owners will vote no based on the money right like based on the expansion fee short-term boost versus the long-term reduction in our media right share if financially it's murky enough that some owners will know based on that version based on that at that point alone what is the reason for this because I don't I do agree with you I don't think anyone is like clamoring

from more teams I don't I'm not necessarily worried about talent dilution

no one is sitting there being a lot we just have it over a abundance of talent like we could we

need like six or four teams no one is saying this no I mean the players union that's 30 30 more jobs for them right so they they're pro I I can only think of a couple of things one is you're establishing a value of a franchise right the Celtic sale established a number and then the Laker sale established an even bigger number the Celtic numbers legitimate the Laker's numbers flawed because if you're trying to buy a percentage of the

team that gives you the majority you're going to overpay for that majority to get the final result so you say it's 10 but I don't know if you in a vacuum nobody's paying 10 billion for the Lakers are just cutting and checking hanging it to somebody they already had a piece of it so to me it seems like they're trying to establish the the the number that then becomes the number well this is what we got for our expansion team this is what our franchises are worth

if the goal is we have to write a wrong in Seattle first of all you never should have

took the team from Seattle in the first place and I have to save our Sonic's meal bags from 2008 that I did at the time it was criminal when it happened I still can't believe it happened they let it happen and they didn't rectify it for almost 20 years you can't then say well we're going to add two more teams to fix the wrong we didn't in Seattle especially when you have a

“couple teams that you have to seriously think about are they in the right markets right first of all”

if you're going to move in the Seattle why wouldn't the Portland guy who doesn't even have an arena yet have the option to potentially move in the Seattle why wouldn't some of the other franchises potentially have the option to move there and that's like conspiracy bill wonders like

do you play this expansion thing down the road because ultimately you know it's not going to work

and now you're going to relocate a franchise in the Seattle and you want to at least cover your tracks and be like what we tried we tried to expand and we couldn't get a pass so we want to fix this in Seattle and now you move it in is there not a case for Portland wanting Seattle because a it's a great natural built-in rivalry that has a history to it already and b we're not all alone on an island in the Pacific Northwest we actually have a one short flight road trip

per you know that we do every year a couple times maybe I don't know I I think I would feel

“better just being the only NBA team in the Pacific Northwest but I think for the league it's I mean”

obviously it'd be better have a team in Portland and it teams in Portland and Seattle and for Minnesota don't you don't you isn't there a part of you that's like wow are we the one that gets to move to these like does that does that factor in it all for you I mean I don't know how they decided I know they have they up all these committees right they have expansion committee they've TV committee they've all these different things so the expansion committee obviously decided

Seattle and then Vegas are the two best options I still don't know how they ended up with Vegas I think there's some other options I've talked about this on the pod before but it's interesting one apparently in the board of governors meeting one of the loudest guys in the room against this which is them I've just bought the Celtics because he's just got into the league he's not any of the committees and I think there was a few people in that room and it's more than just the

owners everybody brings like their one or two people with them there are a few people in the room like

“I don't get it why are we doing this I don't I'm not voting for this and I think it was a little”

more contentious than Adam thought it was going to be which then makes sense why they leaked that story in the Monday morning to try to set the template for it so listen all I'm saying is you better know you're gonna have a team in Seattle next three years because to extend this and make it seem like it's gonna happen and then pull the rug out from under them again would be pretty fucked up that that we can agree on I mean you even have the Seattle media at this thing to ask

Adam I mean out there's Vegas media there too but Vegas is like already an NBA city in a lot of ways because of summer league and all that stuff but like yeah you can't do that to Seattle again we'll see what happens and there's also there's also the like I think part of the disc intent was also just like we're doing there's just a lot of stuff going on at the same time we have the tanking stuff we have the clipper stuff we have the NBA Europe stuff we have

it's like what like why like this just is a lot in this too there's a lot that we already have to resolve to be on BA yeah and that's I said this week or two weeks ago but like to me you can't add two more teams until you've fully figured out the tanking rules and they they tweeted out three terrible solutions on Friday which I didn't like any of them did you I thought they were fine I don't they're I don't understand I don't think they're that difficult to understand like that

they're just basically like we're gonna flatten the odds and let some of the play in teams then

I don't it just it really depends what what you want to what do you want to happen I don't want a situation where San Antonio can go one two and four through straight years again and I'm not taking anything away from what happened to them but I just don't think that's the right way to do it I don't want a situation like filling being able to do the process well one of them had the built in had had some built in safeguard at least one of the

“proposals that some built in safeguards where you can't pick in the top whatever if I think and then”

there was one that had two years worth of record was gonna be the basis of where you pick the league has real issues now like even you look at a team you know because then on top of it you the player empowerment piece coming into this too right and you have I don't know like who's it who's a team that lost somebody in the last five years because the guy just didn't that Mitchell so Mitchell just decides I don't want to be in Utah anymore what are you going to do

if you're Utah you're going to keep them he's under contract for three more years but he doesn't want to play there anymore and let's go somewhere else well what do we do it that he did this well um the end of the box goes on and on right so if you're Utah you made a really good Mitchell trade you haven't had any luck with the lottery you're now you've done pretty well in your picks but you also didn't win the lottery and then you see a team like San Antonio goes one two four

“I don't know I just don't think any of this is a good system I don't think if I think if like a”

Vindiana wins the lottery this year they shouldn't then be able to win the lottery a year from now and that's I don't know why they haven't done little tweaks like that like Viren top three you don't get to go back he seemed like pretty simple I don't mind flattening the odds though if if they wanted to do like the odds for the worst seven teams are flattened then it drops down to the next seven and then the four play in I'd be fine with that all right last thing before we go deep dive

I asked you this is this the weirdest MBA season we've ever had

seems like a pretty bold statement it's a big question first of all

because I was trying to think what's been weirder than everything we've seen now for five five months and every week there's another story we just talked about this expansion story they came out of nowhere I'm gonna list some of the things that have happened this year San Antonio went from 34 wins to a title favorite when the arguably became the face of the league we argued about face of the league last summer

“for two months and I think Wemby has now become the guy that is the hottest ticket”

at the 30 teams it's a fair so hot ticket and Wemby coming to town he's must see he's the face of the league Bam had an 83 point game that happened the clippers had an aspiration scandal started out six and nineteen traded James Hardin and they're now making a playoff push and the scandal has that been resolved also also ignominously waived Chris Paul within retired and waived Chris Paul during his farewell season share that had the best net rating for 40 games after going 4 and 14

Kevin Durant had a burner scandal at the all-star game and the team has not been the same

sense and we've never found out whether the scandal happened or not although I think we have our ideas

Jason Tatum blew out as a kill is in Monday and May there are runners 42 wins they've now already won 50 and he's back and he had 32 points today and that all happened in 10 months the lakers looked like an absolute mess and are now contenders had just won 5th of our scary team draft Phoenix Steven Smith called it should be the worst owner in the league a year ago that they're going to be in the playoffs okay see became villains we have 10 tanking teams that made out of silver snap

to look at trade officially became the worst trade ever the wizards have trade young and entity Davis that was good to say what is that coming up we have a hardcore expansion plan out of nowhere everyone turned on inside the NBA show that we all loved and considered family and we might have 10 East teams that have 45 plus wins so I just listed five 15 17 thanks and I don't know what I left out I mean there's there's more I mean

well keep going what I said it depends what they have to do the one seed the entire Janice saga from start to finish yes is that a saga can we come up with another word Zion plays now every game that that that that that's a weird one yeah you're right New Orleans being the worst team in the league and they're going to give Atlanta the number of pick and now I think they're like the 10 team in the league the last 20 games

John Moran last man standing in Memphis except everyone already forgot he's even on the team like

out for the season just like he seems are giving up with these press releases I have to expect them to just like accidentally send one that's just like John Moran injury to come in parentheses will be out for the season that they accidentally send it did you see the Brian Keith the transcript of his press conference when the reporters were asking him why he stopped playing guys oh and he was just like well he'd reached his cap for minutes these are like

healthy 22 year old guys just who just want to play basketball the jazz are like Kyle

Philopowski you're too good just first two quarters are for you FEMA Hi Luke you're so good

you can only ever play when we're already down by 30 points then what like here comes free off the bench it's just absolutely laughable what's going on there's probably more that I'm just even forgetting you mentioned James Hardin the Hornets how about the bulls just oh yeah the James Hardin trade we forgot about that the bulls just sure that they exist I don't know when how is the team this story this now this irrelevant the nets took five first round picks none of

them will make an all rookie team that feels problematic that sure I'd be doing I guess that is true

“Joeman I mean I think of Joeman it'd been healthy the whole season he might he would do it”

he might never shop I guess we could have thrown in Jayland Brown being a viable MVP candidate

sure that was like 350 miles out one of the things I was looking at was the overunders before the year and how many teams out performed or underperform their overunder by like ten or more Windsor losses and it was more than you think don't have been clinging looks more and more like Gunther every day that's a good one should he just start dressing like Gunther he just come out like that for games what's the Kings one there's got to be a King but the

Kings were the Kings get he mad at you because you called them a train wreck before the season and I call them back I was I called them the hidden bird and they took that personally I guess what it was even worse Scotty Pippin doing that was that a real thing or was that AI did you see the Scotty Pippin Mr. Pib to soda yeah voice a band Nathan in that that's right that's right yeah just throw that on the list he's still mad about the last dance five years later so all right so we've

established this really super weird season we're not even probably done I went back over history because I'm weird and I tried to figure out there have been a weirder season and there were three candidates and I'll just go through them quickly you'll remember them pretty fast 1995 which had the goofy three-point line it had Michael Jordan returning from baseball to just star playing basketball again in mid-March out of nowhere he used it won the title as a as a

road team in every series and never at home court advantage in one series won the title Nick Anderson

Mr. for free throws in a row we the Nick Anderson game and his career was ever the same we David Robinson when the MVP and then had came had vengeance on him in the playoffs and destroyed him we had Dennis Rodman taking a shoes off there in the spur series we had and completely having a breakdown we had the Pat Riley Nick's Miami thing wasn't that the

“year at fell apart 95 at this I think I think it might be the next no it's 95 yeah I can't remember”

and that was also the Patrick Ewing finger roll missed and then we had 8.9 seconds since that same series and we had Indie Orlando Eastern Conference finals which was the best series ever that nobody's ever talked about again with the watch five games from that series and you'd be about the entertain they wouldn't even show it on hard ground before when the magic beat the bulls is what the all-time like what's happening image of the magic carrying horse grant like a high school

kid who just made the game winning fuel goal in the homecoming game off the carrying them off the court that's another thing about 95 Michael Jordan came up short and in playoffs series but it wasn't really Michael Jordan and he got his vengeance section anyway that's one candidate any word number 45 yeah you were the wrong number 2004 is our next candidate okay pistons win the title they beat the lakers the Kobe trial happened that year which was just surreal

and bizarre and kind of terrible we had that crazy pistons pacer series where would be like

“three minutes left in the fourth quarter indiana winning 59 to 58 remember just scores were like”

you couldn't even believe this is basketball that series single hand the lead to some of the rule changes that have now kept happening for 20 years we had Minnesota having their one good year ever with KG and all that stuff we at your guy page a stack of it stock of it there you go the

well for the Illinois fighting Balkans we had Durkin Nash flaming out we had the jailblazers officially falling apart trading Rashid Wallace who played one game for Atlanta got traded again in the

pistons we had LeBron's first year we had the crazy zero point forward Derek Fisher shot oh my god

how many teams were over 99 points a game that year 99 2 2 and we had the 04 Olympics collapse with our back court of Stefan Marbury and Steve Francis among the many things that don't for so that I would said that was a pretty weird year it's a good word oh and then we had shack getting traded right after the year to Miami all right here's our winner 1978 which featured the Kermit Washington punch of Rudy Tom Johnovich the probably the worst moment of

the last 50 years I just before you I wish Fandel would have offered me odds on who would have won this which year bill would pick because I would have gone heavy on 1978 I just yeah it's a great so where does one? Korean punch Kent Benson and broke his hand at Miss 20 Games

“Bill Walton got injured when the blazers were I think 55 and 10 or something and really never”

came back we had the Sonic's go 5 and 17 fire their coach and make game 7 in the NBA finals in the same year with Lenny Wilkins they lost to a 44 win boat steam we had a 44 and 38 boat steam win the title this was two years after the NBA merger we had the brave's try and

to move and they finally did we had the Celtics falling apart officially we had the weirdest

MVP vote ever that nobody still knows who should have won the MVP we had dot kind of choke and a playoff series dot uh Julie serving against Washington and the fans kind of turned on it was like hey doc I thought you're going to be better than this that happened and we only had 350 min teams even though it was an 82 game season only one team one more than 55 games it's a great one still think that might be the weirdest but this one's getting close

“the band 83 point game I think removed the ceiling for this is I don't know so what's your take”

which way out of those four what was the one that jumped at you 95 is a pretty fun year I might be partial to that one because that's I'm 17 in that year and so it's just right in the heart of you're becoming the sports fan that you're going to be I'm right in next country so I'm living yet the mid-90s next thing all my friends are going crazy about that that was the Jordan thing I mean people who were not alive and/or engaged in sports then just don't have any

idea how wild it was that one morning we woke up at six in the morning and the radio on the way to on the way to practice before school was like could Michael Jordan's retiring from basketball there's like it was the craziest thing that had ever happened and then he played baseball and then he came back and he had a double nickel and had the past to build winning didn't all that stuff that well when you when you talked about knowing here in the news that he retired that was one thing

here in the news that he was coming back I still think might be the single most exciting news announcement because we didn't have hoopside back then we didn't have like social media and rumors and whatever it was just all the sudden there were rumors he was practicing with them and everybody he was kind of word of mouth maybe he had a sports radio station near a hometown maybe a new guy who knew a guy it was like Jordan's supposedly he practiced with the bull and then all

sudden he was back and we were like this is amazing Michael Jordan is back I'd given up on this

and that became the most fun two months out of nowhere in this weird season it was great I'm I'm just a little I'm a little bit by the way I'm you know what I'm just thrilled that you included in your 1995 description the the three seasons they moved the three point line in are like a wild three seasons if you go on basketball reference and search like the best three points seasons of all time percentage wise a bundle of them from like Steve Kerr and Glenn Rice

are in those three years and people like don't it people just lists like oh Steve Kerr had the greatest single season ever Glenn Rice had to get and they don't even mention that the three point line was like a two feet closer for his three or when it was like a massive thing

“or yes whatever it was I can't remember exactly how much Steve Kerr shot 52.4% from three”

in debt left strength was right behind him at 51.4 it's such a weird thing that they just did this for three years and were like no not good just move back I don't even really remember

and it didn't make sense as it was happening it was kind of awful but you really stayed in that 95

that magic pacers series you really feel the three point line in that game because for Reggie Miller was 21 footers you know see if the chase of everywhere all right so we think I said I'm going to

“go with 78 I think I got to be honest I think I think 26 is really close we're like two more weird”

things away now but we what if what if the playoffs is all chalk what if we get at the end of this and it's like Oklahoma City in San Antonio and just like crazy seven game blood bath in the Western Conference Finals and then the winner beats the Celtics or something in the finals and it just ends up being chalky in the playoffs is that it's that take away from the weirdness factor at all all right I'm going to flip it back on you you've watched this whole season is there any

chance to playoffs are going to be normal and no no I think there's no chance even if no chance we're going to normal playoffs even if we end up at a normal destination the journey is going to be like we drove off the road and the car went into the pond like in the office when the GPS just directs Michael Scott into the lake it's going to be it's going to be crazy even like these plans like Charlotte just not making the playoffs would be insane to me they've had the

number one net rating for half the year and they're really a pat now for them not to make the playoffs did you mention that the Hawks just went 14 and one like the actual 2026 Atlanta Hawks was that even in the weirdness description like they did just one like a six game winning streak

“they went 14 and one in a 15 game span and honestly should have been yeah I mean well there's”

one two seven games left I was going to say if the season was like 90 games I feel like they could catch Cleveland you could just keep going yeah and then the Lakers thing on top of it like if you're talking about ways the playoffs could get weird there could clearly be a 1/8 or a 2/7 upset I think if if I gave you odds yes there'll be a 1/8 2/7 upset versus no there won't probably like I don't even know what the odds would be but I think that's almost like a 50/50

bet for me I'm still a good note I mean who who is who is your upset threat Charlotte I've got to think of it in right but I'm saying like who but who's going to beat Detroit I think Boston would be a possible upset too at two I'm prepared for that that's the thing I'm prepared for anything who knows but who's beating Miami's not beating any of those teams or Orlando's not Philadelphia what affiliates the seven seed you're right no the odds are we won't

get a 2/7 or 1/8 upset but it's way more in play than it's ever been the Philly I just I just need I need my I just need time I can now this is what I said to Raheem Raheem was all excited about their future odds and I was like look and beat would have to play seven times in two weeks and I don't think he can do it right just fundamentally that's probably not happening but did you see Paul George yesterday I did it he looked right there and they're already doing the spin like you know

maybe this is a blessing in disguise that he missed 25 games because of a band substance and we plummeted down the standings because into the play and because now he's fresh unbelievable Tyrese Max Tyrese Max he was like this is cool I just had to play 40 minutes like everything will game to my

government I finally got hurt because I was on a record pace for guards playing playing minutes yeah

I would not want to see them in the two seven as a bunch of teams I'd rather see I also like Charlotte as a 1/8 is not ideal I just bet this is why this is one of my favorite ideas that I just

“wish they would adopt 1/8 I think you get five home games I guess against this the teams that would”

get less revenue for their home play of games 2 2 3 I don't the one seed should be worth something look if you can't if you can't and I actually went through this I had a meeting with some legal officials about a bunch of different things oh look at fancy you are and I asked about this I asked about like why can't why can't we just let the one seed pick it's opponent out of the play and and so that's logistics and arena dates and if you let that happen that you don't know any of the

matchups are I get those seem to be intractable problems we need to set the matchups and the TV schedule then give me something if I've slogged through this 82 game you know journey and I'm the number one team like I gotta get something I don't I what I shouldn't

get is like oh fuck the hornets are eight and I gotta deal with this in the first round and I

beat the hornets I guess you know deserve to win the championship 2 7 Boston Philly come on

Boston Philly is always such a great time great rivalry am track court or a lot of history that's a great

time I just think with the 3 point shooting and the variance of these games I'm scared every series no matter who I'm playing at this point except Orlando except Orlando who gave up 31 straight points and by the time people listen this might have a new coach who knows it could be here's our new coach Penny Hardaway I don't know where all right anything else for we go I can't remember what else we're supposed to talk about I'm going to be feeling about the match oh

I know what I want to talk to you about really quick ABS ABS do you watch any baseball this weekend yeah I did I watch the match the the challenge it's called ABS oh that yeah it's so fast it's like this bulbous shed did a bad one today and I thought he was actually going to be ready

“tapped it and it was like no wrong bulbous shed I love it most exciting add we've I think we've ever”

had from it because first of all it was half of my text threads all weekend and I watched every red

socks game and the red socks fucked up their two ABS's early in the second game you get two right that's it fucked him up early we go into the later parts of the game we have the worst on part of all time behind the plate and he just keeps messing up but we have no more challenges left and it was all my text for like three hours so the mess is like we're in hell the season opener they're very first ABS in the season flipped it was a three-two count flipped a walk to a strikeout

it was called a ball the match challenged it and it became a strikeout that's like oh like great great times that's all we we had the opposite we get the inning ending strikeout guide does this reverse it's like oh my god you know next pitch same thing

“reverse again now it's like oh my god we're gonna lose because and then he got a strikeout but it was”

like it was this added drama it wasn't expecting I love that the batters can just do it without asking anybody just like I fucked that I'm just hit my own head and like I'm sorry I screwed the whole team by the way you would be you're the perfect guy to ask about this

here are some things that happened in the first met the Met's home opener I don't know if you said

you're this the singer of the national anthem plays this is a real thing plays George Washington currently in Hamilton he's a Tony award winning actor playing the first president of the United States in Hamilton forgot the words to the national anthem in the in the middle of seeing the home opener oh no and just like just put together two verses that don't go together then later in the game the match won the game but later in the game the Frank Trevin

“he's just saying he put there was like a pause where it's like he's been silent for two like”

a beat too long and then the wrong lyrics came that didn't match the lyrics they came they were actual lyrics from the star-spangled banner but they were just not the ones that he was supposed to say at that moment and then later in the game and right field two birds crashed into each other and one of them dash and Carson Benjett the like an towel and pick up the bird and like walk it off the field they just like with a crash going for a

fly ball I did not see video of the birds colliding but it was not a Randy Johnson Dave Windfield situation like through a ball it birds like apparently just head off is that a good signer bad signer they won the game the anthem thing is kind of funny and I just don't know what to make of any of it it was a great weekend for sports and I I was sick for a little bit of it and it was just an embarrassment of riches to be able to bounce around and watch all kinds of stuff

that's interesting socks are one and two or two and one were only one and two two two two close losses and on a 25 man roster they have five holes are it's a feeling good right don't get thought they were going to be a little more so did you see project hell maria no but apparently the directors are massive clippers fans and so I kind of want to watch it but you see no I mean I love Gosling I'll watch Gosling can't wait to see it can't wait to see it have you seen Eddie in the cruisers I've not

that's going to be the rewatchables after we do LA confidential tomorrow the next one after is Eddie in the cruisers because we've been pushing for it to come back on streaming for five years it finally came back it's all over the place and after CR month we felt like we'd earned like it's the end of the dinner when you give the chocolate to your customers this is going to be the chocolate well it's good say it's LA confidential is so heavy like Russell Crowes performance by itself

stresses me out so when he breaks the chair it's I'm so stressed out the entire time that I need I need to like have a cigarette effort new uh new Chris Ryan character and the LA confidential rewatchables

he had enough of you pulled off it was at 9.9 degree of difficulty and he nailed it so that's coming

“we have that end day love so anyway LA confidential that's coming thanks to our state farm for”

for helping us out with this little livestream on Netflix Zach is going Tuesday morning yeah

yeah we'll see what happens in the weirdest NBA season thanks to uh Eduardo and Gahau and Chris

“everybody else at the ringer as well thanks to Netflix and I will be back on this feed on Tuesday”

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