Byron Gomez on Burger King Beginnings, Life After Top Chef, and Meeting Michelin Expectations!!

star chef and partner of Brutgo in Denver, Colorado. Byron is a top chef alum and

he is also the first Costa Reak in chef to earn Michelin stars. This week we're talking

about his rise from Burger King to Michelin star restaurants. I mean, you can't have it

“any other way, you know. Well, you can have it whatever way you want, I believe. You can have it”

your way, making cream sickles out of carrots. And that was a childhood memory from ice cream trucks back when I was in New York. And the time he almost got fired by Dan Yelbulu. This is a panic in the room. Somebody stole Chef's phone because I didn't give it back to him. All right, Chef Byron, it is so good to see you. We haven't hung out in a long time. So thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. What a treat guys. Thank you so much. Super pumped that you're here,

man. I'm very excited to have you on the pot and dig into what has been a really cool career for you so far. So I mean, Colorado is one of my favorite places and not just from our season of top chef. I loved it long before that. But I have one thing about Colorado. I want to talk about because I don't know if it's a specifically Colorado thing. But it's the only place I've ever seen it done it. And I don't know if you're familiar with this. So there were places we used to go to

back in the day and I found one of them. It still exists. But there are places where you go in and be like a steak house. But you pick out a steak and then you go up and they would have a giant grill and you would grill your own steak. Like you would just pick out a steak from a counter. And then they'd like bring you over a rib eye and you go up and you grill a steak in the middle of the restaurant. It was like, oh, yes. So there's one place. It's like right outside of like vale. It's called

the mid-term country club. I think or mid-term tampered. I don't know if you bid. But give not to. I don't think I want to go pay too. Thank you. I'm listening. Listen. Listen. Okay. I can hear for somebody to cook. So you're not going out for Korean barbecue. You're not going out for Korean barbecue, Dan? How did I know you were going to bring that up? How did I know that?

“Because it's a good fucking point. That's how you knew. But I am downpourited that doesn't cook it.”

I'm the person that just waits around for it because everybody that I go with is super excited. And they're like, okay, you know, we're going to cook for you. And I was like, yeah, I've had it. Yeah. But I'm saying what I was like 15. This was like crazy novel. It was like, they just be really, you got to go grill a steak. But the one thing they also have there that it's like, I haven't stopped thinking about 24 years since I've eaten it is they have this dessert. They

call them mid-term baked potato. And it's ice cream rolled in cocoa powder. The like stuff was Sunday stuff. But it looks like a baked potato. I think it's maybe one of the greatest. I think it's maybe one of the greatest culinary creations in the world. I'm looking just thing up. It's like, like, oh my God. Oh my God. You know, just that kind of dessert. I mean, it's like,

calories. It's like amazing. I don't know if they, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if they have two or three

Michelin stars there, but they deserve one. Number one restaurant in the world. In my opinion, if I wrote 50 best, I'd be like, listen, it's the dessert baked potato and then everybody else.

“That's how it works. Well, no-mo work harder. It sounds like a definition. So definitely work the best.”

So so what Adrian comes out there, we got to go. We're going. I'll grill your steak for you. All right. Yeah. I'll drive. I don't mind driving out there. And I don't mind grilling your guy's steak. So I'll be over there. I'll be over there. I'll be over there flipping them up. Just wait. I'll open water bottles and play DJ the whole road trip. I'm a great shotgun driver. Okay. So, Byron, I have some new segments. Joe loves it when I come up with new segments.

All right. And you're going to be our first to do this new segment. And I have a great name for this one

that it's not too dad joke corny, but it's called. It's called in season. I like talking. So normally my titles are pretty bad, but this one is pretty straightforward. That's actually reasonable. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to call it, I wasn't going to call it Tiz the season, but that's a little too evocative of Christmas. Whatever. So Byron, Joe and I are largely on the eastern half of the US, right? We're east of the Mississippi, but where you are in Colorado, southwest, high desert.

It's such a varied landscape. What is in season right now that you're excited about and you're cooking with that brutal. Crones. I have some crones in my refrigerator. Are you kidding me? I can literally go get them right now. Are you fucking kidding me? That's so funny. It's so exciting. It's such a small, you know, it's a two-word. It's a root vegetable. We are able to go in here in Colorado because of the terrible art, you know, I was cold and such. I just think they're so interesting.

They're like, um, the main character, but also like the leading role or like the the system role.

They have a beautiful texture when you pickle them. They don't get soggy. They hold this texture.

“You can even draw. Um, and this always curiosity when guests see them. They're like, wait,”

what is? Yeah. Oh, like is that a worm? Yeah. One guest was today. So they're like, is this cartilage? I'm like, no, no, no, no, don't worry. It's not cartilage. We carved out that. That's so funny. So for anybody who doesn't know, crones are a little like tuber. They're, they look like bumpy. They're usually an inch or smaller and they're kind of the texture of a sun choke or a Jerusalem artichoke. So they have that crisp watery texture. They're not very starchy. Like a water chestnut texture.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So super excited to have that on the menu. I don't see it often. And another one is South City. I don't see South to be often around when you're healthy. Yeah. I least hear in in Colorado in the East Coast. I definitely saw that lot. So being able to bring those influences and what kind of mark my career at my early stations, the code from the East Coast, bringing it here, it's super exciting to see how people take it in. And that like education enrollment that we're

able to do at Brutal is something that is quite magical. I felt like the first time I saw a

self-sophie of a kitchen, somebody was like, oh, you got to peel this and I was like, you want me to peel this bag of sticks? I mean, like, what do we do? Like, I was like, I was like, look at that. I was like, what is the bullshit? How do I do it? Like, we're going to peel this bag of sticks and we're going to sell it. Like, what kind of bullshit are you guys up? Like, the, uh, I had the same reaction when I first saw, when I was working at Cafe Blue, uh, Cardoons. And then we had June before.

“Yeah. And that, I had, I was like, what the? I was like, what is this big hairy celery?”

Yeah. It's like, this one's, this one's no good. Should we send it back? Like, why is it? Like, this looks like, like, celery that grew next to a railroad track. You know what I mean? We're just like, it looks like celery that grew in Chernobyl. Yeah. It's like something build on this. That wasn't water. Like, you know, it just doesn't. Oh man, that's so funny. So talking about you, you know, New York and Cafe Blue, you know,

you didn't just start at Cafe Blue. You got your taste of cooking with open fire before that at one of the great flame cooking restaurants of our generation. Ever known. I mean, you can't have it any other way, you know? Well, you can have it whatever way you want. I believe it is, is actually you can have it your way at that restaurant. I believe,

“I believe if I remember correctly from my time dining there. Although now the tagline is, you rule.”

Yeah, that's where I cut my teeth. I was of mid teens and this had to take a summer get in the very famous restaurant called Burger King. And after that, that's where I kind of was the Bing moments in my head and all over me. And it was just trying to be better, trying to be better.

And never knew that I was going to be where I'm at now, but it's been quite a journey. And it's been

a fun ride to show it. So where did you go? Like, take us for people who know you for your Michelin-starred restaurant in Colorado. And they know you from television. Take us from Burger King, like, what are the places you worked at after that? Yes. So, uh, Burger King, then after that, climbing the ladder, uh, TJ Fridays. Uh, the TJ Fridays was the Sheraton Hotel, from the Line Cook to then doing banquets. And I'm just kind of getting those matches on my belt.

After that, I moved that way from home. And I was leading them along Island. I moved to the Bronx with $800 in my pocket. I will take the one train and then take the six down to 28th and Madison. This Southeast Asian restaurant back in the day called Prana. And that restaurant was like my intro to New York City. What I'm melting pot, we were doing food from Southeast Asia. So, Eastern India to Laos, Cambodia. I will make our own currys in house. We will cook rice in these

straw kind of like, um, straw made kind of hats that were like upside down. And we will put the

rice there, put it over a metal container and just cover with cheese foam. I've never seen rice

cook like that before. So it was like my intro of what culinary world could be like. After a few years, the in mom and pop shops around New York City, I tapped into one of my biggest mentors. We called in Papa, Daniel Ballou. And that's when I started working for Dynamics. I stayed there for about five years. Then on went to work at two start Michelin during the type of Scandinavian

Yeah, it was a terror with Ronnie Amberg that came from Copenhagen and super exciting,

“never seen that kind of style of service. It was also you always classical French. It was flipping”

burgers to classical French to now a terror. And then at that time, I was like, all right, I did a one start to start. What else is left? I don't want to go back to classical French. So John George is kind of the questions, Danielle is out of the question. And the other one was pretty much I was like, I'm not going to get you to masa just because I just, you know, that's not my thing. And that's when I decided to work at 11 medicine part. And during that year, we became number one

restaurant in the world. And I feel like I just kind of completed the travel. Yeah, you definitely did. So what brought you, you, I mean, you traded in the concrete jungle for the rolling hills and mountains of Colorado, like, what made you leave New York? Did you not want to plant your flag in New York? What brought you to Colorado? Well, during, when we got number one restaurant in the world in 2017, we got to that April. And then that summer,

we closed on the restaurant for innovation. This was a plan prior for us getting the award, whatever. And then we did a pop-up in the Hampton's, ENP moved the entire restaurant, summer house,

out in the Hampton's. And that was the first glance that I saw of

living outside of New York. The world doesn't revolber on you. That's all the things to see. And that kind of worked life balance. That was the first sneak peak like I was going the morning. And we worked very hard. But then it would get darker later on at night. So around six, seven p.m. I would go to the beach and surf for an hour or two. And they go home. And I was the first time I was like, wow, this is cool. We went back to New York, that fall. The next summer,

we did the pop-up again. And I was part of that team. We came a sous chef, went back as a sous chef, and then in the winter, we did winter house in Aspen. At that time, I started questioning myself.

I'm like, okay, well, it's amazing to work for all these chefs. And they're definitely

engraved in my career and my story. But do I want to give my old to somebody who maybe gets most of the credit? And I'm just behind the scenes, where there is creativity, drive all those things.

“Which is important. It is a team sport. Kitchen's RT sports. You need different players to play”

different roles within that team and execute. But at that time, I just felt something inside of me that I wanted to carve my own way. And I know what that was. It's scary. It's a very scary moment. Is that why interaction? Of you could fall into your comfort zone and stay at this amazing restaurant that is still very amazing, no matter the critics or what people think. Because it's hard to own a business. I mean, you both know it firsthand. It's hard to do it, especially with that

caliber. Whether I was going to be there five, six, seven years and then be the executive sous chef. Maybe another ten years and be the CDC executive chef. Did I want that? And then what's next for me? I will rather take their risk. I will rather take the role less travel. And I decided not to go back to New York. I decided to stay in Aspen. And I took over this restaurant. I asked the executive chef and everybody left that spring back to New York. And it's like when the reality hits.

Wow. You were just at the top. Now you're down in this valley. What's this going to be the next mountain top? Well, now you have all the account of buildings on you. Everything falls on you. Other responsibilities on you. How are you going to rise from this? So that's when I started and then I was 2019, 2020 came around and tough chefs, not going to the door. And I was like, yeah, let me take this opportunity. See what happens. And then after that, my life's pretty much

“changed. But I think it was me taking that action of seeing where I wanted to go when life started”

giving me what I needed. And I have everything that I need in order to succeed or to fail like it's up to me. And that's a question a lot of people have is like, when do I know I'm ready? When do I know that it's my time to open a restaurant? And for everybody, it's different. I wanted to be behind the scenes. I wanted to be a CDC at LeBurn & Dan and work there for 20 years holding the standard while Eric repair is the one out front. But some people don't want that. And I mean, I kind of got

pushed onto a different path. But everybody asks like, how do I know when I'm ready? And it sounds like you found your answer there. Yeah. But I mean, every day was still trying, you know, everybody sees the glory, but they don't know the story. They don't know that. You know, they see me now, but they don't know that it took 20 years to get to 2021 and when top chefs aired to now, from 2021 to 2025 to be able to have these opportunities. But 20 years prior to that,

20 years for a five year return. Right. And you know, me and Adrian have talked about it before, but it's funny like when you go and do TV, it's like people kind of act like, oh, that's when your career started, right? Like, oh, you did top chef and then like you became a chef. And it's like, no, I did this for 20 years. You know what I mean? It's like, then that happened to come about.

“And like, I kept doing the thing I was doing. And I think like taking that job, you know,”

one of the things like, I think I talk about with like, you know, my friends, it's like, when you work for those really big chefs, right, that are prolific, that are, you know, the the balloons, the, you know, repairs the, you know, 11 minutes and parks, like Daniel Hums, you are in the shadow, right? But you're also, you know, when you leave that, you realize the shadow was from the umbrella that kept you dry and safe. Yeah. So now you no longer, it's like,

yeah, you're not in the shadow anymore. But you don't have any shade anymore, either. This is just all fall out on your head. Like, yeah, good, bad. Right. When you got the sunshine, you got the sunshine. That's, that's fucking great for you, bro. But like what it's rated, it's like, brother, get a bucket. Like, is there anybody covered, you know, and it's like, and I think it is a wild,

wild feeling that first time when you realize, like, I'm out here alone now. Like, I got my team,

but there's nobody else for me to look up to and say, like, hey, what do we do? It's like, I'm the what do we do person now? It's like, oh, shit. It's like, um, it's like that, uh, that might Tyson say, you know, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Yeah, you know, and and stating those places, whether, you know, like, for you, Adrian, you got that nourishment, you got that safety, you, you, you, you took those risks, you put in the hard work.

“Like you said, everybody's different, but it comes a time that, you know, you have to”

carve your own way, I think. And some people, that's their way to stay there. And that's totally fine, you know, but it's just just just taking that leap of faith a lot of times of life. I don't know, this is going to work out what I'm going to do it. And, um, it's, it's, it's reality and it's scary. And then you deal with your post syndrome and then you deal with like, man, could I show the wood up? This is whole, my fuck at people think you're on television. Yes, you last could change,

but it's like a second and third job, because now you're promoting yourself. You're working

on the personal brand. You're learning how to be your own agent, your own manager, your own PR, you know, you, you have your, your daily job at the restaurant responsibilities, but you gotta work out by six o'clock in the morning because you have a call in the East Coast, and you can be the West Coast 9 a.m. there. And it's like another job to keep up. That's a thing that a lot of people don't realize and Joe kind of struggles with that. Like, I want to go do this

television thing because it helps drive attention to the restaurants, but I also don't want to leave my team. I'm like, you just, you got to do it. Thank you. You just got to do it. That's when you start learning how to like, surround yourself with people you could trust and start building that team. And also be open minded that they're not going to do it like you. That is your value. That's where you're there. You could only mentor other people and rough something stuff and hope they

catch it, but they're going to have their own style. And as a leader, I need to understand that

“and let them develop into that. And that could be hard at first. Right. It's, I think it's super”

hard of like letting go of anything, right? We're such control freaks about everything. And I think you're so much to get there 20 years. But whatever many years, open your fresh fresh one, right? Because you're so much. Right. You know every late night you had. You know every train ride you took. You know what I mean? You know everything you missed. Every self doubt you ever had sitting out of. You know it's like I remember like lies on Lancuk. Those long-tried and right home.

You're going to mean after you just got to viscerate me all night and have people just tell you like

like people basically be like, no, come back tomorrow. I don't know why you showed up today.

Like right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Like you suck your knife suck your shoes suck like you know your haircuts sucks. Like why you know what I mean? And you're just like, oh yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Are we psychotic by laughing at these things? It is just like, and then it's like you got to go sit through the pain. You got to go sit on a train for an hour. Let that marinade. Let that say

again. And just like sit there like like buy your stuff like, you know, you can't even do scroll at this point. I didn't go straight to the train. I would stop and have a beer and a shot of jack before I got on the train. Take the edge off the pain from the day. Yeah, and it's like they don't, you know, so it's like you're like every little detail that we're so focused on, every little thing we're doing control. And I think it's like for me at least I found I'm like,

I have to remind myself like, you know, the greatest thing anybody ever gave me was trust, right? Yeah. And like the trust to run their restaurant when they weren't there. The trust we're going to serve is when they were out for the night. And my biggest moments of growth came when I was afforded that trust. You know, did I do it as well as I'm sure if you asked them,

push myself further than I was ready to at the time or I was comfortable with at least at the time.

And I think like, I have to remind myself that I'm like, if I don't give them space, to try to step into something bigger, how could they possibly? You know what I mean? If I don't

“give them that room to say, like, hey, I'm not there, you got to do it. You have to be the person.”

Like you are, you know, as far as anyone's concerned, like, this is your restaurant tonight. But that's the biggest part of, like, our job, right? What we do. It's like being that person and saying, you know what? No, fuck it. We're doing it this way. Let's go. Yeah, right? Yeah. But it's super hard. Yeah, it is. It's really, really hard. One thing I want to know also, you've worked in places from Burger King to one, two, three Michelin stars to now having your own

Michelin stars that you've earned. What is a kitchen habit or a discipline that you learned at some point in your career and you still rely on every day? This, this, this, this may believe system that humans have that keeps us in order, but there's really no track of what that is. It's track of time, a timeline. I treat it like, I mean, what is really 12 o'clock midnight? Is it really 12 o'clock midnight? Was it just a standard that we know program to know that this time is 12 o'clock

midnight? Well, that really helps us in catching because that's your biggest enemy. You are literally racing against time from a time you clock in to the time you clock out, whether it's set up, whether it's getting the order up on the window on time, then whether it's breaking down to get

that on time. You, you're, you're always doing that and I learned that if I keep a timeline

of my day and I break it out into segment, the first week is all data gathering. So I look at the clock, I bought this big red clock at Brutal and he's hitting the corner where the goods are only, they only have to turn the head and look at it. And when we roll out a menu, they have a whole week to draw out our timeline. You coming at this time, this is going to take you, shy if I'm going to take you this long, set up your nine pants. I'm going to take you this long, put everything that's

squeeze about are going to take. So then they know within the two hours that it has to set up what that time like is like the next week they turn it in. I review it. Now me as a manager as their mentor and chef, I have an idea what the day looks like. I'm just not going in, blowing on my fucking

lid because they're not ready. I have an understanding where they're coming from and what they're

dealing with. And then the week later, we start hacking at it. It's called mentality that we practice a lot of Brutal's called kaisen. It's a Japanese way of being 1% better each day. You don't have to be 10%, just be 1% better. So if that time I took you two and a half hours this week, next week is going to be two hours and 25 minutes. That week after that, two hours and 20 minutes. And you can see that confidence building in them. They're like, holy shit, I could do it.

“At first it's like deer and headlights. Many change. Oh my god. No, you are doing what you need to”

do and what you're cold to do and what you're good at and what you're developing yourself. And that's a cook. So just cook. The time management, that's the hard part. So you start doing that homework, review it every day. Eventually, you don't have impossible things anymore because you become uncomfortable and knowledgeable and you gain confidence. You're able to execute and then all around the machine just starts working back again.

That is huge. It's such a monster skill because it's the idea of like, this is the least you're ever going to be responsible for. It's just a station, right? Every step you go further on this journey, there's more. So the sooner you figure out, you know, how to like time block yourself and hold yourself to a regiment and hold yourself accountable. Yeah. Yeah. Like the better you are, all of a sudden you're in a suit chef.

“Now you have to be really good at time blocking your day, prioritizing what needs to get done,”

holding yourself accountable, holding, you know, seven to 15 other people accountable. And it's like, you know, if you're giving, I think giving them the opportunity from the jump of like, hey, these are all like, they might not even see it, right? You know, it's like the wax on wax off. It's like they don't even understand like why it's so important they're doing it. But it's like, this is all the building blocks of everything you're going to need to be a good

sous chef to not just be a great line cook, but to be a good sous chef to be a good chef to be a good manager is going to be because it's all right. It's all just organization and communication, right? And you're putting it on them to do those two things every time you change your menu is fucking awesome. Yeah. That's why, you know, like you said, like, you could be doing wax and walks off and you don't know why you're doing it. That's why the next week we're going to do it together and be like,

this is the information you gave me. I didn't make this up. You gave you this. Right. So now you're going to see your progression day by day by day. And then if you if you shave

on more things because when you're a sous chef, that's when people get burned down in that middle

“management and they say burnout mental health, which is very important. I went to that myself,”

but it's because they don't have the structure and the foundation, how to manage the time. The cooking park, we're good. The show and not park, we're good. They're taking the beating. We're good. Once you get to management, it's a mind thing. A lot of it is not because you're not even cooking anymore. Physically, you're not really cooking. I miss cooking. I don't, I don't get to cook as much as much as much as my kitchen is. And I'm like, guys, just enjoy it. And get that foundation.

That's the time management is huge. But every every station I remember training on a new station, I worked in pastry before switching the savory and everything was like, here's this

recipe of this. This will take you an hour and a half. And then you do that. And so I was kind of

primed for it without even knowing it. And then when I got into fine dining, every station I was trained at, I had my little notebook. And it's like 10 minutes do this. It's like you have your prep list on the left side. And then you have your timestamps on the right about how long each thing should take. And then getting that like, wow, I got better at this. I got faster at this. I feel it's like it builds your confidence as you go. And then fast and accurate. It's like, okay, I did it faster,

but did it come at the expense of college or did I do it faster and more efficiently. And sometimes like you get to the point where you're like, now I can like step back and look at the prep list. And I can maybe make it a little bit more efficient than the person who trained to me if I put these two things next to each other than more related. And that was like, that's one of those moments where you're like, I can figure this out. I can do. Yes. Yep. So you do that enough times. Then five

years later, 10 years later stacks up. You're ready. I remember like being at girl in the go, it's like, we all got really good at butchering pig heads because if they weren't done at the end of the night, we all had a butcher pig heads. So you got really fast at them because it's like, we just wanted to make last call. Yeah. Like, so that's why we got fast at them because it's like man, if we don't bang these things out before 120, we're not going to make it across the street before

130. So it's like, we got to be able to rip these things. So it's like, I feel like those ship pay are like, it was like, you got the benefit of, you got to work shorter hours if you could be faster, you know what I mean for the same amount of money. And now it's like, we're in this era of, you know, it's like most cooks work four times or five eights or whatever they do. It's like,

“you have to teach them how to be efficient within a system that works, right?”

You can't just be like, hey, you need to show up when you need to get your prep done. And like, it takes you three hours because you're a newer cook, that's okay. You get three hours. And if you're a fast cook, it takes you an hour and a half, then you can come in later. Like, that's kind of what it was, right? Like it was just the natural environment that kind of forced us to do it. So I think it's a really smart way to kind of like create that in a more healthy way, right?

Where it's much is like, oh, like, hey, you suck at setting up your station, just work 16 hours. Well, it also teaches accountability, which is huge work here in Bruto because I'd be take accountability on to management. And then, you know, it's just again, it's, I tell the guys, the reason I gave you advice, it's not because it's on smarter or why is it you? Because I fucked up way more times than you have. That's, that's it. And I think people like, you know,

like, when you talk about like culture of restaurants and like great lines that you're on,

“it's like realizing it's like accountability is culture, like the only way to keep culture accountability.”

And it's like, I feel like I'm okay for you. Right. I don't want you to make the mistake I made. I'm recording the emails. I'm looking out for you. Exactly. Byron, I want to ask because you have such a rich background, originally being from Costa Rica, experiencing all the different cultures that you've cooked in, all the different types of cuisines you've worked in. I want to know

when you're creating dishes at your restaurant, what, where do you normally start? What comes first?

Is it a memory? Is it a technique? Is it an ingredient? Yeah. It's so, oh, man, it's such a complex question and answer because, um, right now, a brutal is the first thing has to be what, what is the story, what is the story telling? So, um, right now the fish dish is only two things. A piece of steamed, stable fish with a white asparagus sauce. Well, what is the story there? White asparagus is a very short season in the spring, about three to four weeks. Well, everybody in the countries

having a feeding frenzy, when it's in season, everybody's excited, as they should, we decided to not be part of that. We decided to preserve it. Pickle it. We took the peels, each individual asparagus, and we turned it into a powder, which was for our ice cream in our summertime menu. Then,

when you can't have an ingredient that is not available, it's that it's season, but you're able

“to taste it. So, we began with that preservation, fermentation, all these practices.”

Another one was in the summer. We had our last bite, it's pretty much whatever trend we have of different ingredients throughout the menu. So, we were using carrots for our fish dish in the summer. We took that pulp and made a creamsicle out of it with coji that we utilized to make our missiles. So, it tasted like a creamsicle, and that was a childhood memory from ice cream trucks back when I was in New York. So, I could look at a color, I could look at a texture,

and if I'm looking at something, that's like this vase that has is aerated, and I could look at a sponge cake that we could do in a microwave, and you tear it, and then I could think about rocks, and what is going to be texture-ly, so we took cold something in white cocoa that it has that rocks labor, but it's good in the inside. And all I want is just to invoke an experience, a memory, a feeling, because this industry is extremely competitive. Right now, we are in an age

where businesses are suffering because of the labor, the generational labor, whatever you want to call it, a competition, inflation, how am I going to be thankful that these guests are choosing

my business today compared to any other business when they have a million other options to go

dying anywhere. When you're talking about Michelin, you add another level. People talk about

“all the accolades this in that. No, it's like a thousand more pounds of weight that you have to carry,”

because now you're being criticized even in a more focused scale. So, I just want to invoke something, whether that's the storytelling preservation practices, it is my job to manipulate, to cook, to put up the best product and to give those guests a two-hour two-and-a-half-hour experience when they're sitting at Bruto, and then they could go back to the lives and go back to the stress and go back to the scrolling. All I'm asking, I want to make

you feel human, I want to make you feel cared for, is that hospitality with service? Absolutely.

Are we the best at it? No, but this is what I've been training to do. I'm just trying to tell a story, and I hope that we could connect and have that human connection somehow. Yeah, I love that. It's like, you could just tell it's like, you know, when you're saying you're trying to invoke

“something, it's like talking about their creeps, it's like, I could just imagine someone eating that”

and smiling. And that's the best feeling, right? Like, when you have this idea, and you're like, this reminds me of something so specific, right? Like, I had a, I had a zucchini dish on the menu a couple summers ago at Rosemary, and we would grill them. And it's just a smell of zucchini and charcoal on the grill, like, made me feel like I was running around my backyard on 84th Street. Like, it just was like, it was like, perfect in my head, right? And I had a front of my dad came in and he ate the

dish, you know, and I was like, oh, what'd you think of it? And he was like, he was tearing up. He's like, I grew up here. He's like, and it's like, it's a simple dish, man. It's grilled zucchini with smoked beef fat and parmesan fonduda, pickled zucchini. He's out of it. It's nothing, you know, it doesn't float. It's not on a river. You know what I mean? Like, it's not any, and then he was like, my mom used to make grilled zucchini as a kid over like the Weber. And he's like,

and it just, I haven't tasted something like that in so long. And it just reminded me of her, and, you know, she's been gone for years and I haven't had her food in years. And he goes, it just made me emotional. He goes, I can't explain it. It was like, and I was like, well, fuck me, dude, like, come on. Like, you know what I'm supposed to do? I don't know if you're like the dish, like, you know, when you talk about that, that creepsicle, it's like,

I just imagine someone like, you know, you get that one person who has that same connection. Like, oh, man, yeah, this is that. This is summertime New York. This is the ice cream. Yeah, this is being, there's no more thrilling moment that pulling that wrapper off that thing is like, man, we are living large. We're living an ice cream truck large right now. We get to evolve those childhood like memories on other people, but also myself and and get it, guys, running a business is hard,

multiplying yourself. I hope that AI could figure out how to cool myself. So I could be more efficient. It's hard, but what a beautiful, we have a responsibility for that. And we also have the skills to give somebody that gift. There's another question that I'm curious to ask you because you've also gone through several iterations of yourself. And we've talked about this, I think years ago

We all want to unlearn some of the bad habits we learned. We all want to try every day to be one

percent better like you said. And what is something that you had to unlearn, a kitchen habit,

“a life habit, something you had to unlearn to help you become a better version of yourself?”

Brutos and 18C counter, open kitchen, people get to see everything. See the performance, see the execution. Although I was already in television when I got to Brutos and did a slow this exposure, doing the food that I was doing at that level with that setting, one thing that I had to learn is to not be so focused on this and actually look up and be present. Because there's so many cues that you miss. There's so many reading the room moments that you could miss. And I find

you kind of understood why when I was working with Daniel Burlu or Daniel Hume or Gavin Kasin,

there will leave the kitchen. There will need the past and go to the dining room. Because that's able to give you a sense of where you're at, where you're going, what the energy is like in the room, what the past is. And seeing the guest reaction from the food that they're having, where there was bad, not bad, but I'm saying like maybe they didn't like it, maybe they less something. That taught me how to manage my business better, the kitchen better, the team better,

the execution, maybe the thing that I thought and I'm just going to die on this hill because this is the recipe for this dish. Maybe we need to pivot because I need to let my ego aside and actually I don't work for the company, I don't work for Brutos, I work for the guest. If I don't have guests in my dining room, I don't get paid. My cooks don't get paid the business doesn't work. So having that realization of looking up, I'm not a point in my career where I can look up

and have all the people and trust to the people that could manage to stop that, I don't need to manage. Do I want to, after fucking only, don't want to be like, guys, you can't fucking figure this shit out, 100% most of my time, but that's not my job anymore. I have a middle person that I could go up to that and they could distribute, they could say the message I wanted. So I needed to be comfortable in that. I needed to grow into that role. I needed to accept my place in the kitchen of what is my

execution, how am I going to do better that if Garma J on their seasons, the salad, then I'm going to go under review and say little Tommy on season the salad, that's where we write in this article,

“they're going to be like chef firing gold. And I'm like, so he's dealing with all of that and I think”

this is being right. Chef Iron's awesome little Tommy sucks. So yeah, that is he's looking up and being present. Yeah, the the old way of training, like keep your head down and focus on your station. That is a really hard habit to unlearn when you're at the point that you're like, oh no, I need to look around. I need to see what other people are doing and not be focused on this one thing. I need to have a big picture of you. Right. And especially, I think you know,

you know, doing like top chef and all that stuff. It's like, now you have a place where it's like, people are coming to see you too. You only mean, they want to see you. They want to interact with you. So it's like, there has to be a level of like, and I'm not saying people need all access, but it's like, I feel like you got to give them some of that. Right. And it's like that. You do realize the

“net like enriches or experience. And it costs you nothing to do to just be like, hey, what's up?”

Do you want to be like, you know, it's like, makes her day, makes her day. Right. You know, when people, you know, they'll tell me, like, you know, I'm getting like a DM of the big, I'm coming in a bit. Cool. Say hi. There goes that cool. It's like, yeah, no, it'd be weird if you didn't. Yeah, I've had people reach out to me and they're like, on the end, and I reach out back

and they're like, oh my god, I will never thought you would respond it. This is something. And I'm like,

well, we're fucking heal these two. Right. Right. And it's like also, you were, we're humans who like want you to patronize our business. Like, I want you to get that. Like, it's my whole thing. It's trying to get people to come to the thing that I do. You know, so it's like, you're like, hey, I want to come. It's like, I'm going to try to figure out how to make that happen for you. Yeah. Byron, one, one question also that I find really interesting is there's different

schools of thought in the industry about going to culinary school and skipping culinary school, and my mom worked in the industry. I was raised by a woman who was in the industry herself. So, you know, I'm a, I'm a lifer. But I remember her telling me culinary school, you don't go to learn things. You learn to prove to a chef you're applying to that you can stick with something. You're going to learn the names of what to call stuff, but you're not going to learn until

like some of the highest accolades in our industry. What is your view on culinary school?

“And you skipping it and did you feel like you wanted to go? Like, can you tell us a little bit”

about that? Yeah. I mean, I always store in my life. I always wanted to fit in.

Whether it was in high school, whether it was with a certain group of friends, then on culinary school, I wanted to fit in and never got the opportunity to go to culinary school. So, then I fill it in outsider. When I apply to work with our dynamics, Daniel Boulou, I was like, this guy has interns from the own, from Switzerland, from Asia. Why is he going to take me? You know, and, and, and as a chef now, a lot of it has to do with

you showing up. That's half the battle and have a good day attitude. I'm going to teach you all the fuckers that I didn't want to do. And I could maybe save you a couple hundred thousand dollars, whether you're changing careers, you know, going to culinary school, whatever that is, I myself live the not-percently opportunity. So, I took the enrollment of school of hard knocks. I had no other choice. In my opinion, I'm all for education, but I had a kid who just started working for us.

What's taxing me, late spring, glassier. Hey, chef, I'm done with my internship at Ostevia Francis Fanam and late summer. I'm coming back to the US, I'm a CIA. I mean, the middle CIA, I would love to come and work for you once I get back. We ran to him the stars, he came in, he was able to do his two-day stars at the end of his stars. He's like, I need to go back and finish culinary school in December. And I was like, okay, well, I need to hire somebody like

today. So, what's going to happen? He's like, all right, let me go back home and I was like, okay, he drove from Florida to Colorado for a two-day stars and then was going to drive back. I was like, okay, he came back the next day. Chef, I spoke to some people that, you know, I trust, and I'm not going to go back to corners. And I was like, cool, I'm taking a risk on you because you took a risk on me. That kind of attitude is one of a go-getter. That kid realized that culinary

school, I was like, why are you going to finish culinary school? It's once he came back and I said to the job and he goes like, I don't know, just to get my name out there. I was like, you can't form a studio front just kind of. And you being offered a job at a one-star mission restaurant. What do you mean? You're there, right? That's it. Yeah. Taking those two samples is just like, what is the right answer? Everybody has a different path. Colonial school wasn't my answer,

wasn't in my action. This kid, he tried it. He left it. He said, I better place, maybe I don't know

“what I think. Yeah. If that makes sense. Totally. It definitely makes sense. I mean completely”

makes sense to me. I always, you know, it's like, I feel like I've had those interns with like,

oh, well, I'm going to go finish, you know, two more years at Candle or CRA, whatever, so I can get like my bachelor's in culinary. And I'm like, for like one is somebody else paying for it. If somebody else has paid for it, then what he does about it? Yeah, I go ahead, go have two more years of fun. You know what I mean? Go enjoy it. Why not? Who cares? If we go ahead, got an upstate New York or Chicago, whatever. Go do it. That's like, but if you are paying for this,

that's like, you're out of your mind. Because you're not going to take that bachelor's degree, and they're going to law school or go take your rebts. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, it's like, just get to work. You want to be a chef. You want to be a cook? Like, start cooking. Right. Yeah. See, I went to culinary school, but I was in a work study program. So I was working for chefs around New York for free. It was like, you're short staff on a Saturday. You need somebody

because you can't pull a sous chef from the restaurant. You need somebody to set up your demo. So it was very hands-on. It was very practical. So I feel like I got a lot out of it in that way. So yeah,

I'm just, I'm always curious about that because for somebody to, you know, some people look at

culinary school as it's going to guarantee me success in the industry. And, you know, it depends on the person. Obviously, you have achieved the heights of the industry without having gone to culinary school. So, you know, it's not always necessary. Yeah. I don't think there's anything that guarantees anything in this industry. No, it's just not that. You know, even if you look at culinary schools, there's no Harvard. There's no yell. There's no like, oh, I went to, you know,

say you want to see I, it's like, yes, sure. You can say that's the best culinary school in America.

“But it's culinary school. I think that they hard work only gather the guarantees you”

are better shot of doing something else in something hard. That's it. Does it guarantee success?

No, it's just giving you a better shot that you've been on the fucking couch as crawling through, you know, Netflix. So go away. That gives you a better chance.

“That's, that's what it is. Or watching other people cook on Instagram.”

I'll take that. Okay. Right. It will give you the opportunity for something more. You know, it's just like, yeah, but it's like, you know, somebody asked me the other day they came in and they were like, how many of these people on your line went to culinary school?

No, it's like, I don't know. Because I never asked anymore. I never asked people like,

oh, did you go to culinary school? I'm usually like, did you work anywhere before this? And if they've worked anywhere before this, we talk about that. And it doesn't matter to me. What am I trying to ask right now is a guy who he was, his resume before it worked for me was Bona Beef in Chick-fil-A. The rest of his resume is Rosemary, and now he's a torn on a bar tooth. And it's like, he's nasty. And like, it's awesome. And it's like, I don't even go to culinary school.

I don't care. You really mean, like, not just like, it's like, can you cook? Are you not an asshole? Like, do you want to hang out with us? Like, but on this point, if you're funny, you know,

“I was like, we're cool. Like, you want to hang out with us? Like, you want to hang out with us?”

You want to hang out with us? You want to hang out with us? You want to hang out with us? You want to hang out with us?

I always say, like, if you're going to be shitty, at least be funny. When I'm like,

you're going to be a really shitty cook. Like, try to be a little funny. It'll get you a long way. Like, you, you, these could be like, you know, a vibes person on the line. You know, like, you're like, you kind of suck where you're like, but you're like, but you're like, you know what? Like, yeah, I know Gina sucks, but like, Gina's fucking hilarious. So it's like, we'll let her work grandma for nine more months. Like, you know, it's like, it's like, it's funny that you talk about

you over the advice because, you know, coming up the ranks, like, I will use those people as my shield and I will fuck up. And I will just say something to trigger that other person. So they could take the spotlight and I'll be just in the corner just like, I'm fucking everything that I will do it. As I put it up. So I just remind me of that when you use that that. Well, Byron, we know what you've achieved in the industry. We know where you started. We know where

you climbed up to and we know where you are now. But there was a young Byron back in the day. A young Byron Gomez working at his restaurants, doing his thing, maybe in fine dining, maybe before, who made a memorable mistake, right? So we have a segment that we call walk-in confessions. And this is

where we finally come clean about the mistakes that our younger selves made that we can own up to now.

No shame, no embarrassment. You're in a safe space. Yeah, shame guys in the light as I said. Well, something and an instance that kind of taught me something, I don't know, maybe not doing with cooking, but I applied to cooking. I was working at a Pissary Berlue on 164th in Broadway. And I took that place almost like my culinary school because at that time on that corner, it was Barberlue at Pissary Berlue and Berlue suit around the corner. So on my days off, I was stars

in the other restaurants, where there was pastry, where there was in the line, where there was breakfast, I just wanted to learn. I saw the opportunity and I was like, I'm going to hop on this

“bad way. And Danny Berlue came and there was a, oddly enough, there was a, I think it was season 12”

of top chefs. The cast was having a dinner party at one of the PDRs. So Danny Berlue comes up and being him, he wants to take pictures and then everybody wants to take pictures. So they happen to pull me into the PDR. And they're like, hey, can you take pictures? So I'm taking pictures, I got like 16 phones in front of me, taking pictures, all of that, everybody takes their phone back. Chef is saying hi, it's just that he's on world. I happen to walk away 10 minutes later,

they're so panic in the room, in the kitchen. Somebody took a chest phone, somebody stole a chest phone because I didn't give it back to him. You know, and now I'm thinking my job is on the fucking line, the executive chef, because that's going to be like, you fucked up dude, like, what the fuck, Byron? Because obviously, you know, this is going to look bad. His team is going to, it's just like all trickle down the fact, everybody has a system, everybody's just fucking freaking out.

And finally, somebody from the cast comes back like 20 minutes later, they were like, oh, we were done, Columbus Circle, and we realized we took an extra phone, this is somebody's phone, it's just home, I'm like, I'm not fired, saying, oh my god, I am not. Oh my god. Oh, that's all me a few things is broken, broken, broken, fired on your day off when you're standing too. I'm here. I'm here. I'm cooking related. We'll be all time all time.

So that's all of your few things. It's, uh, I had this thing I could still like, guys, it's like, take a penny, leave a pen policy. If you take something, just put it back, put it back where you found it, put it back where it belongs. Also, if somebody's giving you an order, do it right down, drop everything and do it right now, because you're not going to remember,

and move on to the next thing. And then how to organize myself, you know, now I know what it is,

“I don't want to say an assistant, but I have a team of, you know, have a few archetypes,”

and I have a manager, and they all doing their job to enhance my job and if I don't do something,

they don't eat, they don't get paid. And things like that, so we taught me how to build the team,

“and I remember that assistant, how much she was freaking out for something that wasn't even”

her fault. But also, it's just like, keep your shed on check on my end. Don't, don't take pictures

for Daniel, but whoever again. I love the idea of you having to walk and do an interview at

“EMP after that and explain why you got fired from board. Why did you leave Daniel's group?”

But I fucking lost the phone, man. I lost the phone, all right. There was like 16 folds. Was, I wasn't even working that day. Like, what's it my fault? I just, I don't know where to come up. It did that day. Yeah, about photography, about photography. All right, guys. That's awesome. Chef, thank you so, so much. This was an absolute blast. Me and Adrian, we got to visit you out there. We got to come eat everything. I'm going to take

you guys both out for ice cream, baked potatoes. Watch, watch, watch your heads explode against the wall. Love it. That's it for this episode of The Chefs Cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can find full length video episodes of each show. And follow us at Chefs CutPod on IG. On behalf of Joe Flam, I'm Adrian Cheetam and this has been the Chefs Cut. Life beyond the past.