The Charming, Amusing, Surprisingly Low-Confidence Matthew Rhys

In every episode, we peek into an intimate corner of someone's life

“and learn about what love means to them.”

You know, I can tell you 35 years with another person.

I've never spent that much time with anyone else either.

So we both kind of said I love you pretty fast. My advice is that it's okay if it's hard. You can listen to modern love wherever you get your podcasts. From the New York Times, this is the interview. I'm Luke RC and Ivaro.

The actor Matthew Rees is on a tear. He starred in this year's surprise breakout hit widows Bay, as a small town mayor trying desperately to bring tourism to his sleepy island, despite locals warning that the place is haunted. Rees also starred in the beast in me as now Jarvis, a New York real estate developer

rumored to have murdered his wife. Both of those parts won him Emmy nominations this year. Yes, he's nominated twice. But as I found out when we spoke, it doesn't mean he's feeling secure in his career.

We got into that and talked about some of his other memorable roles

“and about his life with his partner Kerry Russell,”

who we fell in love with on the set of the Americans. Here's my conversation with Matthew Rees. But first, a quick message. If you're not a subscriber, we have some news for you. You can now explore the times for free without paywalls

during your first month in the New York Times app. Just download the app and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, onto the interview. Matthew Rees, thank you so much for being here. Thank you very much.

So the best description of you that I've seen is actually your own. Oh, God. Yes, there we go. Yeah, you didly panicked. All right, you said once that you are, quote, "eternally seeking to channel the spirit of David Niven."

And that, of course, is referring to the great leading man who has Welsh roots. I discovered his autobiography The Moon is a balloon. It's one of my absolute favorite books in the world. I'm great. Can you tell me what you meant by that?

Yes, I feel my life or how I am in the world. It was really like a nervous nanny.

And I'm always like, "Oh my God, I said the wrong thing.

I did the wrong thing." And then I look at Niven and he's always so quietly self-assured and calm and seemingly said the right thing even when a naked person ran behind him with the Oscars. And I just wish I could be that person

and say the right thing or and be gracious and effortless and always think of others and everything. Every time you read of an actor who worked with David Niven, they always say he was just so gracious to everyone and thought of others all the time

and said the right thing and was calm. And I was like, "God, I wish I could be that person." Yeah. It's interesting the way that you view him. Because he is witty and charming and always said the right thing.

But also maybe a bit frivolous, maybe a bit... Frivolous in what sense or with what? Well, I mean, you know, he was the perfect party guest. Yes. And in terms of his acting, he was a good actor.

I would say a great actor. I agree.

“And when I think of your work, I think more of sort of the great well-shackers.”

Richard Burton and Anthony Hopkins and the OG Ray Maland. Yeah. You know, who were sort of brooding dark characters. And so I guess what you're saying is David Niven in life and perhaps others in work?

Oh, absolutely. And I would say that I would say Richard Burton is on par with Niven in that sense as to who I would aspire to be. Because Burton seemingly, he was the first to kind of be very unwellish to me, which was arresting and inspiring.

What is unwellish? I think we're a small country who have suffered for being England's neighbour,

the small kind of cousin who's always ignored and put into the corner.

And kind of told what to do by England. And they are for I think there's a great kind of subservience and insecurity to a degree nationally. And he was one of the first to kind of really with this great confidence and hubris going, I'm not going to be that.

I'll take Hollywood by storm. I will challenge onasses for the diamond. And he was very unwellish in his... profato. Yes, yeah.

And to me it was like, wow, we're allowed to be that. I want to go just back to the David Niven thing. Yeah. Because you describe being a nervous nilly. Can you just elaborate on that a little bit?

What do you mean? Well, I think that just stems from the early days of kind of kind of growing up in a school

And then you go to drama college in London and then being the kind of the young Welsh person. I like it.

I've always, and now I'm just, you know, another fish out of water in America.

I always felt of slightly not fitting it. I know, and it's the boring actors cliché. No. I've never fitted it in. But, and I don't say it's a cross I've had to bear.

I'm just saying this is the slight feeling of it. And I've never just, you know, all the stuff that mean my marble was mown about. I've never felt that kind of kind of confidence. Self assuredness that I always wish I had, which is maybe why we always pretend to be other people. You fake it pretty well.

In so many ways, not just the acting. Yeah. I'm interested in this period that you had where you had early success. You were in a stage play of the graduate on London's West End. And then you had this period of not being able to find work.

“In your early parts of your career, did you ever turn anything down because you wanted to have a certain kind of career?”

Were you being choosy or were you just not finding the kinds of roles that you wanted?

Oh, no, no, it's never, never choosy.

Especially though almost throughout my entire 20s, it was never a choice I had. Yeah. There's only one job I turned down that I, to this day bitterly regret, which was to play Hamlet. And I was 24, and I turned down Hamlet. I don't know because I, it's filled, it felt, so I felt like,

a mountain I was too young to climb. And I was like, I don't have the emotional maturity to play Hamlet at 24. And now, sadly, the day in has passed. But yeah, I don't feel, you know, I'll ever get that chance again. You knew that you didn't have the audience.

Yeah, that's what I remember saying, I remember saying it's made into the time. I was like, I can't play Hamlet now. I don't, I don't have that in me. It's, that's, it may be in five, six years, but not now. There's no way I could play now.

And then Ben, we're sure, did it at 21?

“What do you feel like you have to have inside of you in order to play a role?”

Like, what do you, I mean, when you were younger, did you feel like, there had to be emotional material there for you to sort of be able to channel the person? Exactly. I, you know, how, obviously, Hamlet's going through so much at the time. I just felt I've, I haven't worn enough shirts. I haven't lived a life yet in order to kind of.

You can't pretend, is that acting? I don't need to be to tell you your business. Oh, believe me, how right you are. Yes. And I look back and go, why didn't I just pretend? I think, I think, you know, we do, we do kind of put Hamlet on a plinth

and we kind of see it as this Everest that can be summited, should be summited, because it should be summited. And it was for me, I was like, this, you know, it was a, she's just one of those roles. Do you think it was low self-esteem?

Without question. I think any number of other actors going, of course I'm going to do it. And I'll do it well. And I was like, I can't do that. That's not in me.

I can't do it. I bitterly regret that. You mentioned something. You studied at Rada, which is the World Academy of Dramatic Arts in London. And that's sort of the highest echelon acting school.

What would you say this sort of main differences between American acting and, and British acting or the acting that you, I mean, I have thoughts about this, but the acting that you kind of, were brought up in, because just hearing you say that that you kind of needed some emotional material to do it.

Yeah. I mean, that, that speaks to a philosophy of acting that, I'm wondering what it is exactly. What do you think that philosophy is? Is it more American?

I would say it's more, it's more American. I agree. I agree. It's talked by a, a New York acting teacher at Violet Rada, called "During Canon."

She was from the kind of royalty of New York acting schools. So like method acting? Stella, yes, she'd come through that. So she, yes, that was her ethos. And that was the way we were taught.

It was this great, subversive moment in, in the Rada history, where like Americans were brought into teaching. You know, it's kind of, let's reinvent the wheel here. Yeah.

“And how did that, um, how did that inform how you learned how to act?”

I loved it because also as much as I was watching Richard Burton, the huge heroes from me were Brando and Tomiro and Pacino. So all of a sudden, I felt like I was getting an insight into their world, the way they did it. And I, you know, grow watching their movies.

So all of a sudden, I was like, "Oh my God, we're getting the secrets." Yeah. So it was very exciting to me. It was getting away from this idea that it was pretence.

And, and in a way, I suppose, a little more,

“this is a self-justification of dressing up for a living.”

But kind of more worthy or noble that if you do it for real, it's not facade, which is a little more humiliating. Well, there's a lot of debate now because, um, female actors have talked about how this is a, it's a male conceit to be a method actor that it's because, you know,

is, you know, men are much more comfortable, you know, navel gazing and women have to use their brains in other ways. So true. I mean, what, what do you think about that sort of, um, well debate? I agree.

I agree that it's, the term has become this kind of, uh, prior now for, for bad behavior. And, and what I, what I, what I loved about the training we had in college is that they stripped the myth from it. They're like, "Look, it's like a switch, it's like a toolkit."

So there's no self-indulgence. There's no kind of being rude to people. There's no doing pushups before it takes. You know, if you're playing with Beth, you're not going to become the king of Scotland. So it's like, it's, it's giving you a toolkit that you can call upon whenever you need it.

And when you should need it. But it also makes it a lot more clinical, a lot easier. There's no, you don't stay in character. There's no reason to stay in character between action and cut. That's it.

You don't do it? No. No. It's called a method, but I'm not, I suppose, in the modern term, I would say, is a method act.

I've never once stayed in character.

You don't go home and speak in an American accent or... I do sometimes to annoy the kids. And they're like, "Oh, stuff it." Or if I order food on the phone, I do an American accent. Because sometimes you're like, "It's just quicker."

And the kids are like, "Why are you doing that?" Yeah. All right. I want to talk about your Emmy-nominated roles, first of all, congratulations. Thank you very much.

Um, 19 Emmy-nominations for Widow's Bay. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Part of what is obviously so unique about the show is this blend of horror and comedy. Yeah.

So first on the comedy, I saw the casting director recently said about you. Go. That no one knew how good you were going to be in a comedy role. Which made me wonder why you were cast by the way.

But, um, you know, this, that you'd never really done a role like that before.

No.

“I mean, did you doubt yourself why did you want to try to do comedy?”

Because you're not known as a comedian. No. And I didn't. I always wanted to kind of give comedy a go. And then the script came in and I was like, "Oh my god, this is amazing."

And original and weird and quirky. And I was like, "Is this comedy or is this kind of part? You're going to play for real." And I met with Katie Dippon here on Mariah. And he said, "Look, we're not playing this as a comedy.

It has to be played as a drama. Otherwise it just works. It'll become self-conscious and farsical. So you have to play for real." And I was like, "Oh, great."

And then he said, "Yeah, the pressure was taken away. And I didn't have to think about it being a comedy." Is that why you've steered away from comedy up until now? No, I just think, because I've seen you in roles where you're yourself, right? And you're funny.

Well, thank you very much. I also think, I also think I have what they call the Celtic lid. You know, I've slightly hooded eyes like Robert Mitchell. So you don't have a face for comedy. People think you're kind of downtrodden and serious all the time.

Like if I have a brighter eye, I might be better for comedy. But it's not something I've overtly or consciously avoided. I just think, as in so many times with this profession, you can slightly get put into a little category and you stay there. Right.

When you had to go and play the character, did you think, "All right, I have to play this for real."

“And by the way, other actors who do do comedy say that you have to play it straight.”

Like in any comedy, you have to be completely twisted to the bit, because if not, it... Yes, yes, you still can't tell. Yeah, yeah. But this is obviously like a fantastical world.

Yes, yes. And so how do you commit to the bit when you're having to be chased by, you know, the clowns and 20 c-hags? Almost the same. What was great was...

I was going to say, "Oh God, I..." Well, okay, because I hate talking about the pros and my pros. Right. Okay. So part of the method I was taught is when you project your character

should have a super objective. What is the one thing throughout the whole project he desperately wants? So I thought, if I give myself a very strong super objective for this, for each scene then there's a scenic objective that feeds the super objective. So I go, okay, if my super objective is,

I want my son to flourish, to bloom, to succeed on this island. Every action leading is that super objective. Has to be me going, "I have to make this island succeed." So it gives you this kind of focused zeal when the madness is around you. And that's what helped me kind of...

if you have this one driving force in your mind,

it tends to, for me personally, it helps me kind of keep me slightly on this path on this keel that I can stick to. And then it makes a playing of it more real for me, if that makes sense. It does, you know, it's your motivation, right? So that's everything.

Yes. I said the end word. Yeah, so that's what I...

“Okay, thank you. That's what I try and do.”

So on the horror front. Yes. I want to start with just like a big premise, which is, you know, film and our cultural touchstones say something about us and the moment that we're living in.

Yeah. And I think you know, when superhero movies were really having their moment, we wanted things to be black and white. We wanted to be saved. We wanted someone to come and sort of make everything okay.

And I think what this moment might be telling us is that things aren't what they seem. That there's things happening behind the scenes that are beyond our control and are particularly nice either. Yeah. I mean, why do you think horror is having such a moment?

Have you thought about it? I do. Two degree, but I haven't come up with anything as irritated as that. But, but... I would...

Do we just like to be scared? I mean, maybe I'm just giving too much of a thing.

“No, no, but because I think it's interesting as to why there's this,”

why there's this kind of wealth of horror that's doing well. So, it's seemingly, it's kind of more slightly more societal than anything else. Right. And, and I would agree because I would have thought in these times of kind of such turbulence, you would almost want the superheroes more because you just need to believe in that kind of universal sense of justice

that's something or someone ultimately will do the right thing or overcome the bad thing. But, it is. It's this, you know, we're in this strange time of kind of constantly being, "Oh, my God, this is terrible." Shocks to the system. Yes.

The things we're seeing are horrific, but yet seemingly nothing changes or stops. So, it makes perfect sense that we'd find it in our fictional entertainment. Do you think about the cultural moment when you're playing a role like this? Like, what it's feeding into? How it might be received in the world?

Well, the, what the big conversations about Widdles Bay was like, "How are they going to take this?"

Is like, there was a, we're always going by.

"If we're going to get this, what is this tone?" Oh, when my agent said, "This is horror comedy." I was like, "Whoa, what?" No. And then I read it. I was like, "Oh, that's, that's pretty great." I didn't think it was pretty good. It was fantastic. And I was like, "I know I want to do it, but how is that going to be received?"

Like, that could be a good die on our asses with this one. Do you know anything about series two, what's going to happen? Anything about the real mythology that you can tell people who are going to watch this and want to know. I can tell you, wholeheartedly, I know nothing. And I'll say this much. I'm not even sure, Katie Dippold knows.

Because they've only just gone into the room for season two. And I was like, I was saying, "What happened?" She was like, "I don't know." So they're going to sit down for a long time trying to figure it out. So this is one of my really big pet peeves as if you were, which is, we have to wait to know if a series is a hit before it gets picked up again.

And then there's this long lagged, and by that point, you know, you're kind of forgotten everything about the momentum and the thing that you liked. And you're seeing now all this reporting about viewer drop-off. You know, you know, you're running point Netflix series because that happens. I mean, isn't there a better way? That has to be, because this new model is crazy.

“That's what everyone says. It's like now we have to wait over a year for the next season.”

I'm of the same opinion, you watch one season and you're like, "Wait, what? How long?" Are you worried about losing momentum? Yeah, yes. And just hope those editors who do previously on Widows Bay, you know, kind of great just before we break season two. You're reintroducing it, but that's, this is not the best answer.

All right. The beast in me was your other big hit this year. You're nominated for an Emmy for that, too. You play a super rich mogul who's suspected of killing his wife. Yeah.

Have you thought about how much you're playing a character that's hiding something? Obviously, in advance of this interview, you're just going through a lot of your work. Yeah, yeah. In the Americans, obviously, you were Soviet spy, but you're going to be an American at any other things along the way. Beast in me, you're a murderer, pretending to not be a murderer or a widow's bay.

You clearly know more than you let on about what's happening on the island. Why are you drawn to those particular roles? And why do you keep getting them? Yeah.

I always think when the character has something else going on, it just gives you so much more to play than something slightly shallow or more artificial.

You've got so much going on. Sometimes in a way takes you out of the acting, if that makes sense. You're kind of, you're playing so many things. You start, you know, forgetting about the kind of artificiality of it all. I saw a clip where you were discussing the Beast in me and you said menace and rage is where I like to live.

And we had a big debate as to whether you were kidding or not. Yeah. Were you? But I mean, but if you look at your career, I mean, that's not untrue. No.

No.

“I'm sure the kids would say, that's what I do live.”

No. No. I was, I was making a joke. Because your upbringing seems to have been so happy. Yes.

I mean, you've talked about it with stable and fun. You were out, you know, in the farm and you were out on the sea. Yeah. It just seemed like a lovely kind of time. Yes.

You don't seem to have some sort of dark origin story. No. And so I'm wondering where the attraction to darkness comes from. Right. So it's like, those, it's in the shadows, the interest lies.

I, I firm believe of that. It's like, oh, my God. What was that about? What must be that like? And the kind of rage, you know, the rage stuff you, you kind of go.

I'd say it. Sometimes I find the rage stuff easy to fake. Because it's just sort of, it's sort of volume and passion. That's about it.

“And I think for men, it's, it's this weird little tap.”

You can find quite easily. You know, you, you can fake that quite easily. If you're just kind of passionate and loud enough. Speaking of those dark and layered roles. I want to ask you about a role you played in the HBO Show Girls in 2017.

Yeah. I just rewatched it. And it's an episode titled American Bitch. And you played Chuck Palmer, a famous author who'd been me too, for taking advantage of younger women.

And Hannah played by Lena Dunham goes to his apartment. Just giving this an opportunity. Yeah. Um, after writing about the allegations. And what follows is this incredibly complex performance.

And again, you're playing this sort of charismatic, powerful,

deeply manipulative person. And you have this intellectual argument with her about the agency of women. And one was really going on for you and how you have been Miss, Miss Understood. And then at the end, you expose yourself to Hannah. Yeah.

And physically. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The look you give in that scene.

At the end. It's really quite something. I mean, it was amazing watching it again.

“Can you tell me what you remember working on that episode?”

And what you understood about the character then? Yes. And, you know, Lena was incredible in that she kind of, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn on her path. But she kind of explained what had happened to her. So it was drawn from a truth.

So she gave me the background to to this, where this kind of piece of fictional writing came from. In a very detailed way, which helped enormously.

And then, which I've never done before, we rehearsed it like almost like a play.

We went to the location and rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed. Which is utterly luxurious and television where you just, there is no time. So I just remember thinking, wow. We have all this time to get this right because it definitely needs to be got right. Especially at that moment, right? It was the subject of a huge discussion.

Yes. In that discussion with her, were you trying to honor her memory? Or were you trying to be, you know, interpret the character in your own way? No, more exactly that. Trying to honor exactly what she'd written.

And kind of place it in a very real way, but also she was interested in the real discussion of it. That he couldn't just be villainised off the bat. There had to be some kind of true discussion or discourse within this event that leads to it. She wanted the kind of push and pull of both sides for it to land in a very real place.

That ultimately, then would hopefully pay off the ending a lot more.

Yeah, I mean, it did, obviously. But what was that look? Because what strikes me seeing it now is that, you know, it was this moment in time where we were just starting to have the conversation about consent and power and abuse.

But watching it now from me is just a straight-up bad guy. Yeah. Yeah.

“And that's me that was what the look is at the end, because it doesn't matter what we've discussed.”

Ultimately, this is what I want to do.

That all that kind of quote-unquote discussion and, you know, it kind of back and forth is meaningless because once that happens. Because ultimately, that's all he wants. Yeah. You also got to choose a prosthetic penis in that role. I actually didn't. I was given the choice.

Right. And I thought, I can't choose my own, because I don't know. I just like somebody else chooses it. Because then I can't be judged about that my choice. Is that the strangest problem that you've had?

Without question, with I've never encountered a tray of prosthetic penises before.

“And the problem has to go in, do you want to, would you want to?”

And I was like, no, you choose some just something that I like spoke to that Richard, the director. Why don't you pick pick what you think will help aid the shot at the end? After the break, recent I speak about starting to date his longtime partner, Kerry Russell, while co-starring on the Americans. Sometimes when we would argue, I'd bring that into the scene and the director's like, what is going on? You meant to be getting on really well, and I was like, I'm vice versa, you know?

So she's far more chill with me. We gave times employees a preview of crossplay from New York Times games, and here's what they had to say. I can finally play with other people. Play with friends that you already know, or you can just be matched with someone else in the world. I have a J for 10 points, and I can put that on a double letter, so JAM, that's 24 points.

I'm going to take facts, and make it facts as for 30 points. I'm guessing tanga is not a word, let's see. Tanga is a word of whole. I don't know what tanga means, so I'm going to press down on the word, and oh, definition popped up. As an English as a second language speaker, I like it to learn new words. I'm pretty competitive, it's fun to beat friends and co-workers.

Crossplay, the first two player word game from New York Times games, download it for free today. I've been playing Mike HR Business Partner, which is a fun little way to break the ice if there's something you need from HR. Okay, we're going to do a weird pivot, because I don't know how to get out of prosthetic penis. Yes, no, it's tricky, yes. So I saw a clip of you saying in Welsh, it's all downhill from here, speaking about your Emmy nominations.

And I was wondering, you know, give me the context, I mean, the Welsh very pessimistic. God, you can't just be like, no, I'm amazing, and this is, oh my god, no, no. And I would attribute this to all the Celtic countries. It's almost like an Olympic sport to take someone down once they think they're above this station.

And, you know, my parents going, you know, you know, you think, you know, when it was my dad always say,

God, if he was chocolate 80 to himself, you know, or he goes, he says that about you. You know, just about anyone who kind of slightly thinks they might be better than everyone else. I just think, and I do, I really find it like, this real Celtic characteristic that all the calts have like, that anyone who thinks they're slightly better than the rest, it needs to be locked at the knees. And I do also think, especially for the Welsh, we do have a wildly strong sense of pessimism coursing through our veins.

I mean, it seems to be very at odds with the American idea of ways to be selling and, and in particular, I mean, do you struggle with your own success?

“Yeah. I mean, yes and no, because I think, I think what, I have this ongoing, I have this, I have the parrot keeps saying, it's all going to fail, right?”

You know, it's all going to go downhill. So I have that all the time, and this sounds a perverse name drop, but Tom Hanks is motto is like, this two-show pass. And he says that about everything. You've been at work for a long time, this two-show pass. And what I, all I remember is after doing the graduate with Kathleen Turner thinking, I was just on a cent. I was like, this is it, and then I was at work for a long time.

You're just up and then you're done and you're up and so at this point, I know this sounds stupid. But I kind of go, this is just, it's a, it's a moment. It's a fantastic moment, but it's a moment. After the graduate, you were going to join the military. I tried, I tried. And you rejected you?

Yeah, because it didn't believe me. Which is really sad for an actor. You couldn't even convince the recruiter. No, I remember I went in, I met the sergeant and he was like, come back next week and meet an officer. I was like, okay, I went back for the interview.

“And this officer was so suspicious of me going, why do you want to join the military?”

And then like five days later, I got the letter saying, thank you for your interest in the British Army. It is sort of amazing that the officer was like, there's something not right by this kid. There's like, I don't believe him. Back to that Welsh pessimism. Yeah.

I mean, what do you think the biggest culture clash is between your American living self and your sort of Welsh self?

I always admire to me the Americans have such confidence.

But what I find in New York, that I do sometimes, is I fake this confidence. Because there's this kind of, some say it's aggressive. I find it like more confident. Because there's like this, and it's an honesty too. That like, you see it, it's like subway justice.

You know, sometimes when you get those people, and it's not necessarily just men and women who go like, hey, you can't sit there. Like, or like, you know, give up the chair or like, what? I remember going, oh my god, people are like this. They're not just like those bit parts in movies about New York.

The people are like this, and I found it's liberating. And you kids have that American confidence? Two degree, yeah. More far more so than I did as a kid of their age. Hmm.

All right.

You told the Guardian in 2014 that the most important thing to you is the survival of the Welsh language.

Probably worse than, yeah. Yeah. I mean, still is. And I, you know, I grew up in the 80s when the language itself was threatened. And, you know, I remember the protest marches and the kind of, you know, trying to get a language bill,

“and language acts and trying to, you know, what are the oldest languages in Europe?”

You couldn't, couldn't open a bank account in the Welsh language. There was, it had no status. I don't think I truly understand sort of the history of how the Welsh language and, and whales in particular, was subsumed under sort of British culture. Yes, English, yes, yes.

They, they're like, if we strip a nation of its language, we, you know, we can, we can dominate. And that's what they did. They tried to eradicate the language. But I think as a result of that, what the, what it did was create a fire in the Welsh, to say, you absolutely will not kill this language.

And they fought if hundreds of years. There was, my grandmother's generation was the generation where they used to have the, the piece of water on their necks and they wouldn't speak Welsh, you know, otherwise, it was called the Welsh knot. And this is the, the English did well.

They would turn communities on each other. So a child hearing another child speaking Welsh was allowed to put the piece of water on their neck, and then that child at the end of the day would be flogged. So this is how they kind of did it.

“So there was a zeal to my parents going,”

this language will not die.

It will never die, and we'll make sure it doesn't.

Hmm. You've talked about one of the reasons you find doing the American accent easy, but the British accent, the English accent hard is because of that colonial baggage. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And that's when I feel the most fake when I have to do a certain English accent, when I have to kind of receive pronunciation RP. Yeah. That's when I feel like, oh, I just feel fake. And also distasteful.

Yes, I just sit because we used to grow we grew up in our house, mimicking that language in a derogatory way, going, oh yeah, it's darling, do passing you can percentages. You know, so the connotation of it was wildly negative. Hmm.

You're voicing Han Solo in the first ever Welsh dub of Star Wars. Yeah. I mean, amazing. Yeah. Have you already done it?

Yeah. So please, please do a scene for me. Absolutely say something in Welsh where you're playing Han Solo. Oh, my God. What was weird is obviously they'd had to translate all these, you know, things that we'd grown up with,

knowing Star Wars. And then I was saying it in Welsh and it was kind of, like, paladar karchi. You kind of, you know, it kind of, what is that? It's kind of like, it's like tractor beam. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. There were words I've never used before. And I was tripping on them going, I couldn't say it. Um, and at the same time, it was this wildly familiar thing that I got to do.

The whole thing was surreal. And then also you kind of go, I can't voice. How does it feel? It's like, do you talk to me about that? No.

I'm too scared. But, but, but in, in the same vein, you know, I was so glad. This is what I would have wanted growing up as a, as a young Welsh kid, is to have these things that would be commonplace.

Like, yeah, we'll translate Star Wars into Welsh. Um, so it buoyed me enormously to kind of go right. So there's going to be a, a generation of kids who watch Star Wars in Welsh. Um, amazing. I want to talk about, um,

Carrie Russell. She's your partner. Thank God. You first work together in the Americans, which is just one of my all-time favorite shows. What is it like to fall in up with your co-star?

Kind of, I remember the time I went on, no. Because I wouldn't advise it. You know, and, and back in my 20s, I've done it. And it, I've ended disastrously. And usually doesn't do the job any favors.

And I kind of went, I'm never doing that again.

And then, kind of in my mid-30s, the Americans haven't seen us like on. No, it's just happening again.

“Do you question it because obviously you're playing a romantic part now?”

So you're going hang on. You know, let's be very serious about this. And, you know, Carrie had two kids and it wasn't something I was going to enter to lightly. Um, and then sometimes you can't fight it, you know. And it's ordained.

It was, and it was going to happen and it did. I'm curious about this also because just when you are on this long running series, and you're working with someone and you're romantically involved with someone. You know, usually your personal worlds and our work worlds are separate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, is there anything tricky about having that merge? It's wildly tricky because, you know, by the end of the Americans, she's pregnant with our child. Um, and I was trying to direct a pregnant. Um, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not good enough or mature enough to kind of,

because sometimes when we would argue, I'd bring that into the scene and the director's like, "What is going on? You're meant to be getting on really well." I was like, um, a vice versa, you know.

So she's far more mature with me. So yeah, I found that hard. I really did. I struggled with it. Would you work together again?

Without quite a hundred percent.

I'm always saying, but I want to do something like hot to hot or moonlighting, something like that.

Um, although she'd probably want to be Bruce Willis. Are you competitive with her? Because my husband's a journalist and I'm, he's not competitive with me, but I'm very competitive with him. Um, brilliant.

Brilliant. Um, no, no, and I know. Hmm. I'm genuinely trying to think that through properly.

“No, and I think we're two very different people.”

And one, we have two very different attitudes towards acting as well. She has got, I think quite a complicated relationship with acting. Hmm. In that she kind of goes over like, you know, I'm not. Um, and she always goes, "Oh, Matthew's trained."

I'm like, "That's just why it makes no difference." It's like someone having gone to Harvard and someone like, you know, being successful as someone, being, you know, journeymen and being equally surprised. And it's just either you can do it or you can't. Or you know, you'll succeed or you won't.

There's no, by that point, has no bearing. What makes her a great actor in your view?

I just believe her always.

Like, I'm always there 100% with her. She can't, she in a way she always is. She can't fake it. So your, your 100% invested on the right then. And that to me is the kind of almost all of it for acting with me.

If I believe it, then I'm off. I'm with you. And it doesn't matter where we go. Um, and I always believe her. How do you both, um, organize your lives?

Um, I feel like men don't get asked this enough, which is why I'm asking you. Yeah. In a sense, we always ask women how are they organizing their lives. Yeah.

And I'm just, I'm wondering actually, as both actors, she's in the middle of the diplomat, and that's, you know, ongoing series. Yeah. Thank God.

“And just, um, how do you organize parenting and acting?”

No. And that stuff, children. Oh, it's like a circus. It's like a circus. We both, we both have, uh,

Moskin planners. We don't, we don't, we don't do the calendar. No. Yeah. So we sit down with little nubs of pencils.

Uh, that's how we, that's how we do it. But it's, it is one of the hardest elements of, you know, uh, the circus life.

I'm like, we're just saving money for the kids therapy when they're older.

I feel like they're never around.

Um. So it's hard. It's hard.

“It's, it's, it's been, it's played spinning.”

Have you ever turned something down so the carry could do it? Or vice versa? Um. But the, the, the, the,

But one rule we kind of have if, if, if there's a, um, a project comes along, we're like, I can't turn this down. Then we make it work. Whatever whatever whatever it is.

There are some, there have been projects whereby, um, clearly are very quite, um, impressive. We're made to go listen.

This, this film is shooting. Is, these are the days. This is the cast. This is director. I got, I don't want to read it.

Just turn it down. Yeah.

Because I, I don't rather not read it.

And go, oh my God. Yeah. But I know, like, she's in the middle of the different matter. I can't do it.

So don't send it to me. I've done that a couple of times. But that's, I mean, she's done. She's done the same too. So, you know, it's, it's equal in that sense.

Mm. She's also nominated for, um, the diploma. Yeah. You're this real Emmy power couple this year.

Uh, yeah. Yeah. Emmy power couple. Emmy power couple. That's going to be on your back.

EPC. EPC. Yeah. I mean, do you talk about it? And it'd be gameed out the different scenarios.

Because, you know, you won for the Americans. She didn't. She's been nominated eight times. I know. I know.

And has not won. I know.

“Um, I mean, do you, do you talk about like she wins?”

You lose, you lose. She wins. What are our faces going to do? Um, you know, when they, when they pant to us immediately. I always make jokes.

Like, I say, if you don't win this time, I'm going to go. Oh, I'm sick. Um, she's like tons of that. I mean, Jay Z, does it for Beyonce? Right.

I mean, there could be a thing. Right. I should start thinking. Right. Like, if she doesn't, if she doesn't win.

Um, now we don't, we don't, we don't really talk about that. We talk about the more the logistics of the night. And which party are you going to go to after? Um, would you rather she wins than you? Like, if you 100%.

100%. Okay. I saw Samantha Morton say recently. She hasn't worked at all since doing the Odyssey. Um, yeah.

And it reminded me of what we've just talked about, which is, you know, those times in your life where you've had these fellow areas where, you know, you've had to sort of take the Tom Hanks view of, like, this is a moment in the actual past. Yeah.

“And you have to take the long view of your career.”

Yeah. Yeah. Has this moment right now where, you know, nominated for two Emmys really have the hot show of the summer. Yeah.

Everyone's talking about it. Yeah. In a Emmy power couple. [laughter] And the only B.C.

Yeah. Um, have you finally, do you think cemented your status with this, though? Do you finally feel safe? Yes, and no. I know that's terrible answer.

You, you, I find myself at Mom's going, maybe a kind of likes. And then, and then you kind of go, oh, that's the death now, if you do. Do you know what I mean? Um, and you've, I've just been through it.

I've been to the up and down so much.

I kind of got, I never quite comfortable.

And, and, and in a way, I think it gives you something. It keeps you a bit hungry. What do you hungry for now? Movies to me is still the kind of the grail. Because we grew up watching big Hollywood movies.

And I was like, oh, movies. Do you know what I mean? They still have that aloe as the Oscar still have the aloe to make. Because you kind of go, that's another echelon. You always think,

especially with the awards. You think it'll fulfill something, gaping holes has been in you entire life. And you go, if I just went and I want a little fulfill everything. And it does nothing.

They're, they're kind of drive. They're, they're the what you're, that whatever hole you're trying to fill, is still very much at the center of your gut. Is that why you continue to audition? I mean, you auditioned for a role.

And you didn't get you really wanted to be in the Bob Dylan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It means that would drive the, the need to go and kind of still do that. Yes, yeah.

And I thought, and also, you can't, you, like, if you want something, get after it. Go and do it. Get it, you know, prove to them you can do it. I still, I still have the, I still,

I was kind of relieved that I still have the hunger to go and go. I audition. I'm not, you know, I'll go, yeah, of course I will. But you didn't get it. How do you deal with rejection at the stage?

It's when they say, I was like, who got it? They went, Ed Norton. I was like, okay. (laughing) First, um, terrible.

It was like, I'd had no audition for a little bit. And I didn't get, I felt crappy because it reminds you of everything you do.

He's giving yourself all this hope.

And then you'd be knocked down. Good. I was, I was, I got, I was kind of alive in me again. It kind of gave me a, I remember the hunger of your 20s when you're like, I'm going to get that part.

All right. Last question. Chography. Exactly. Tell that.

Finland. Yeah. No.

“You talked about having the super objective, right?”

Um, in your work. Yeah.

And it serves your motivation no matter what you're doing.

Yeah. And I'm wondering what your super objective is in life. Yeah. Well, I mean, we touched on it because you keep thinking if I just do this, I'll feel satisfied if I just find winning award.

I'll feel how super visual. Yeah. I'll feel, it'll. That's what it did. It'll, yes.

And I'll fulfill something in myself.

“And I think, ultimately, it's to do a part where I can look back.”

And I go, I'm satisfied with that. That's what keeps you moving forward. Moving forward is like, okay, when am I going to do one part that I look at and go? I did it. Your hamlet.

Ha ha ha ha ha. Yes. My hamlet at 79 years of age. Um, and is there a super objective in terms of the way you live your life?

How can you back to your first question about David?

I want to get to a place where I just feel confident and just kind of. I'm not faking that. I'm not faking the kind of, oh, I'm, you know, I'm happily confident. But I genuinely feel calm and confident in myself. When will that come?

Matthew Reese, I wish it on all of us. I don't think that you're alone in that particular struggle. True, true. Yes. Let us, let us, let us all that sail that good ship until we find it.

Until we find it. Thank you so much. Thank you for this invite. And I've greatly enjoyed it. Likewise.

That's actor Matthew Reese. To watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/@symbolTheInterviewPotCast. This conversation was produced by Wyatt Worm. It was edited by Allison Benedict, mixing by Sophia Landman, original music by Dan Powell, Alicia Baitu, and Marion Luzano.

Photography by Philip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Priya Matthew, Seth Kelly, Paola Newdorf, Joe Bill Munyos, Eddie Costas, Amy Marino, Mark Zemil, David Hur, Gavi Contreras, Kathleen O'Brien, and Brooke Mentures. Next week, David talks with conflict resolution expert Priya Parker.

In so many circles and so many churches and so many families, we believe that conflict is close to sin, right? It's immoral. And so in families just literally shifting the belief that all conflict is wrong to actually saying the conversations we're not having is preventing us from deeper connection

as a family can be a radical shift. I'm Luzagar Cienavaro, and this is the interview from The New York Times. This week on the Wirecutter Show, it's really tempting to shop online, but there is no replacement for shopping in person, especially for Sophia's. It's so hard to shop online.

We're talking all about Sophia's.

“How do I win that will last and that you'll actually like?”

Find the Wirecutter Show wherever you listen to podcasts.