The Tangled Tale of the Tate Brothers and the Trumps

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Over the past decade, the Tape Brothers have built a global empire around pornography, hyper-masculinity, and overt massageny. Even as they were repeatedly accused of assaulting and trafficking women. Today, a Times investigation has found that as their legal troubles mounted, the Tape's

found powerful allies in the Trump family and the Trump administration.

“My colleague, Megan Tui, explains just how important those alliances became and why they're now starting to unravel.”

It's Monday, August 3rd. Megan, welcome back to The Daily. Happy to be here. So about two weeks ago, there was this pretty remarkable scene that played out in Miami, Florida, involving the Tape Brothers who you have been reporting on now for many months.

Just describe that scene to us. So on July 18th, Andrew and Tristan Tate, who are these massively famous figures around the world with a huge online following in the Manisphere. They arrive at this baronucle boxing match that Andrew is actually scheduled to co-host. Which is very Manisphere. Andrew is dressed in a tight fitting purple shirt with the buttons open and these chains around is knack.

Tristan is in this three-piece suit and hat. But as soon as they get out of their car, you as Marshall's show up. And the brothers are handcuffed and arrested in front of their entourage. And you could tell that the brothers were really surprised and so were we. And why? Why, especially were used to surprise?

Well, U.S. marshals are part of the U.S. Justice Department. This was a federal action, which means that it was done with the sign-off of the Trump administration. And that's surprising because, you know, the Tates have actually had legal troubles in multiple countries prior to this.

They've also had some really powerful defenders here in the United States.

“That's what my reporting partner is about a quiet and I have been actually digging into over the past like year and a half.”

How the Tates developed deep connections to the Trump White House, the Trump family and other players in the conservative MAGA world. So this very public arrest that's carried out by the Trump administration really seems like a significant turning point for the Tates. Right. You and Isabella have become true experts on the Tates. Their rise, their immense influence, all their legal troubles and the role that the Trump administration ends up playing in all of that. So I can tell us the story of how it came to be that the Tates formed a kind of alliance with Trump world.

And how we get to this point where the president of those around him may be turning their backs on the Tates, I think means telling the larger story of the Tates themselves, which I know at times involves some graphic and painful details. It does. Yeah. So the story of the Tates, I would say is primarily the story of Andrew Tates who has been the much more prominent figure of the two, although they've worked hand in hand for years. And listen, they have enjoyed telling the story of who they are, where they came from, and how they came to have this huge success.

So they are born in the United States to an English mother and an American father. I guess I was raised in a hyper, I call it hyper traditional. The modern world will call it misogynistic household. My father was in charge. It was his household. The parents had a troubled marriage and eventually they split up and the Tates brothers relocated to England with their mother. We had no money. And I grew up in Luton, which is the worst town in England in an area called Marsh Farm, which is the worst area.

And as they tell it, we're living in public housing and really kind of struggling to get by. And once they've reached their teenage years, Andrew Tates goes into kickboxing.

So I wanted something, but there's no luck. It's just me, brittle war. This is where he gets his first taste of fame.

I came four time kickboxing real champion. He goes pro wins championships, but he's not making a lot of money. So I said to Tristan, we need to work out a way. We can get rich. And he and his brother kind of sit down and watch some YouTube videos like financial advice and we're talking about asset, liabilities, et cetera. And I'm writing down all my assets. And I'm trying to work out what I have that's worth money. Andrew says, like, in this moment, I kind of looked around my life and decided that I needed to work with what I had.

“The only thing I had was, because I've been fighting all around the world, I had these six girlfriends.”

And what I had were girlfriends. I vestaged my six girlfriends and told them they're all coming to live with me and I'd a job for them in London.

Two of them wouldn't come for them agreed.

And he wants to seize on that and make money from it. I said, listen, I've been with you all. I'm starting a webcam business. I'm going to get rich. Some of you are going to come with me to the top of the mountain or if you're pissed off, you can fly home. And they convinced them to start making sexual content. Two of them left. Two of them agreed to stay.

And they went on cam to start making money and perform live on webcams for paying customers. Two girls made money for a bigger apartment, three girls, four girls, five girls. Bang, bang, bang, four, Noah, I had a fucking empire of women. And as they had hoped, this porn business turns out to be much more lucrative than kickboxing. At the peak, I was turning over, formed a random month.

In the years since, we've learned what their strategies were for bringing women into their business. They would identify women that they wanted to recruit, actively romance them. Once they had them in relationships, seek to exert control over them. And then steer them into making this content and making it in a way in which the brother is made most of the profit. And Andrew has described himself as a "pimp."

“People always say "pimp" as if it's a negative thing, but I think a "pimp" is a very positive thing.”

And it's not long after they start this business that women are going to the police and complaining about that. And what were those complaints? So Tristan was arrested in 2014 for an alleged assault of a woman. And Andrew was arrested the next year, actually three times. One woman who had worked for him said that he had strangled her during sex.

Another said that he had raped, beaten, and pulled a gun on her.

And a third woman said that he had raped and strangled her while they were dating.

Neither brother was charged at the time, but Andrew has said the attention from law enforcement led them to leave the UK and move to Romania. And why were Romania? As they tell it, they saw Romania as being a place that they could get away with more stuff. And listen, like Romania has been known for its corruption for having a pretty weak criminal justice system. And it's also notably been a major hub of sex trafficking.

“Well, what does their life look like after they arrive in Romania?”

Well, they expand their webcam business. They are overseeing women who are working for them there in Romania. They're still operating out of the UK. They are making more and more money. And they are also continuing to get into trouble.

Such as... Well, in 2016, Andrew actually gets cast to participate in the British version of Big Brother, the reality TV show. But pretty quickly, a videotape surfaces that shows him in a bedroom, beating a young woman with a belt. Wow. And he actually gets kicked off the show.

But he defends himself. I know something came out in the paper, whatever, but things came out in the paper by everybody. And he and the woman involved, say, it was totally consensual.

It was refuted by anyone involved.

So that's bullshit. I just think...

“And he really just doubles down on his bad boy image.”

And the result is that this scandal ends up in the headlines everywhere. And more people pay attention to him. And his public presence just grows. And another thing that happens around this time is the 2016 presidential election. After Donald Trump is elected, Andrew also decides to lean into Trump and the magam movement.

How so? He's talking about how much he admires Trump. He's got him bitches by the pussy. I like that guy. He's tweeting his support for him.

Trump as a guy who says what he means, it means what he says. And one of his tweets of support catches the attention of Donald Trump Jr. "I was a run of a mouth and I was defending Trump and a junior just liked from my tweets." And they end up in communication. I told him he followed me back at the end of his head.

"You guys are literally the heroes of the West. I would absolutely love the picture." And Don Jr. actually invites him to New York to Trump Tower.

I was like, "All right, I booked the first class ticket." "Bang, I was there." "You guys are cool."

"Don't let the presents on, he made me a coffee." "He's a cool dude." "He talked for about three or four hours. We still inbox each other every couple days and stuff." So again, I was crazy and stuff to wear just defend and Trump.

Crazy. So this is the first real link between the tates and the Trumps. For now, yes. And in the following years, the tate brothers get even more rich. More visible, more influential. They start selling these online courses.

So if you've joined this course to learn how to run a business and get rich, congratulations. Your world view is about to change forever. Teaching men how to make money.

“And by command respect, if you want to run a business, the one of the best things you can do is go to the gym.”

How to be manly. Command a physical presence. It shows discipline. It shows that you understand hard work. And they have courses actually teaching men how to build porn businesses of their own, just like the tates did. You're effectively taking girls, teaching them how to make unlimited money from hollow.

And they're making sure they give all to you. And Andrew outlines in just extraordinary detail his instructions for how to exploit women. You cannot do a purely professional business relationship with a female. They have to be in love with you, which means you have to have sex with him. And in his online content and in the interviews, he starts to do.

When men try and act in a masculine way, they're toxicly masculine. Demonize us. Andrew is really presenting this worldview and spreading these messages about how men have been sideline. We are the backbone of every economy. They want us to be worker ants.

They want us to be semi depressed pay in taxes as tax slaves in a sexless marriage with kids who don't respect us. He also preaches about the need to dominate women. The girls are barely sentient, females don't have independent thought. They're just empty vessels waiting for someone else to install the programming.

Teaching? He, at times, openly talks about violence against women. Show her so she could barely fucking breathe till there she's yours forever. I just say they're going to believe it. You can program them.

They are programmable beings. And promotes this intensely misogynistic worldview. You can't slander me because I will state right now that I am absolutely sexist. And I am absolutely misogynist. So I'll say what I want.

Because I'm a realist. And when you're a realist, you're sexist.

“Megan, when I think of the manus here, I don't think about messages that are this violent.”

And so am I right to think of this as being on the extreme edge of the manus fair? Yes. It's absolutely on the extreme end of the spectrum of the manus fair. And you know, it's actually like at the same time complicated. Because there are these moments where the tates are downplaying the more violent and demeaning comments as just bravado.

And there are also mixed in with these messages of male empowerment. You know, go to the gym, start your own business. Be strong, drive a cool car. Have a purpose driven life. Yeah.

And this is the moment when the me too movement has taken off. And they're telling boys and young men that they need to rise up. And that feminism has gone too far. And I needed to wrap because Megan, you're pretty central to the growth of the me too movement through your journalism here at the times along with our colleague, Jodie Cantor and a large cast of others.

When the times broke the story of powerful men like Harvey Weinstein and the sexual abuse that they committed,

It becomes a movement unto itself. And it sounds like you're saying that the tate brothers seize on that. And they come to embody the backlash against it.

“Oh, absolutely. You know, I think that while me too proved to be this empowering moment for a lot of girls and women,”

there also came to be this sense that it was disempowering for boys and men. And there's this growing feeling among certain male demographics that boys are being ignored, that they're being treated unfairly, that they're being blamed for being themselves.

Right. And that sense that tates timing was crucial.

Yeah. And the tates are sort of swooping in and being like, you're right. Everything that you're feeling is right. We're going to kind of show you the way out and we're going to help restore masculinity. We're going to help restore confidence. We're going to restore the power of men. And you have eventually like millions of boys and young men who gravitate to the tates.

“It's hard to overstate just how big these guys are getting.”

And in 2022, Andrew Tate is one of the most googled names on the internet. And then in December of that year, at the height of their fame and influence, their home in Romania gets ready. And it is the beginning of the authorities in Romania, launching the huge criminal investigation against them, and which they're eventually accused of trafficking,

multiple women into their born operation, human trafficking, Andrew's accused of raping one of those women and of having sex with and beating a 15 year old.

They're both accused of basically forming a criminal enterprise.

Now, I should add that the tates strongly deny all the criminal allegations against them. Understood. So at this point, the legal troubles that had started for the tates in England were now finding them in Romania. This place where they thought that they would be safe from those kinds of investigations. Yes. And while those initial police complaints that they had faced in 2014, 2015,

those hadn't been made public, this Romanian investigation is a very public affair. And the Romanian authorities are actually prohibiting them from leaving the country while they follow through with their investigation. But once again, the tates do what they've done so well, which is to seize on this moment and use it to their benefit. And in the following months, you see them pursuing even moral alliances, and eventually finding real support from none other than the Trump White House.

We'll do it back. I'm Deborah Cayman. I'm an investigative reporter at the New York Times. This one time I was working on a particularly difficult investigation of the bad behavior in the real estate industry. I was in a meeting with my editor and she said, "Tiver, why is your face so white?" And I just told her the truth. I said, "You know, this story is really hard."

“And she looked at me and said, "That's what we do."”

I think about that all the time.

At the New York Times, I have never encountered someone who said to me, "That's too ambitious," or "That story is too hard."

It's the contrary. I am told you need to dig deeper. You need to keep going until we make sure we have every single fact, every single layer, to tell the stories that would not be told because they are hard. And that's what's special about the New York Times. It allows our readers to understand not just what's happening, but why it's happening. If you're a subscriber, you probably have experience that sense of understanding.

And thank you for supporting this work. If you're not, you can subscribe at NYTimes.com/subscribe. So Megan, how exactly do the dates use this Romanian investigation to forge even stronger alliances in President Trump's orbit? So one of the first strategic moves that they make is to hire as an attorney Joseph McBride, a lawyer here in the United States, who actually came to prominence and into the MAGA world by representing people accused of insurrection on January 6th. So they hire a lawyer very much in the Trump mold.

And so McBride goes to him and says, Listen, you should come to Romania and interview Andrew Tate. You guys will break the internet.

Hey, it's Tucker Carlson, imagine being the sixth grade boy in the United States right now.

“And that's exactly what Tucker does. What are they telling you on the internet?”

Well, they're telling you to stop being yourself, sit still, suppress your aggression, obey. And this is a really important turning point. It was probably not surprising that Andrew Tate was the most Googled man in the world last year. He offers a different vision. Tucker Carlson sits down, speaks with Andrew for more than two hours. And it's a very warm sympathetic interview.

What is it about your message do you think that infuriates certain people? Well, I message his traditional masculinity. My message is to stand up and say what you mean. What you say and even they spend much of the two hours discussing what they consider to be like a left wing war on masculinity and their other shared conservative beliefs. And when discussing the criminal case in Romania, they misrepresent the allegations.

But you're not actually accused of rape selling any one pimping with Carlson saying, you haven't been accused of rape. You haven't been accused of any violent crime. When in fact you had, you can't send a guy to jail because you disagree with him. You should. And this interview is a sensation.

“I think it has ultimately been viewed more than 110 million times.”

That really is breaking the internet. I mean, that's an astonishing audience. It is. And other people notice. I let you jump right into this.

Andrew Tate within a matter of weeks. Candice Owens, who is also this conservative media figure who's working to build her audience. She travels over to Romania. I see conservative designing like real meaning to saying stuff that is just so. Obviously content for young boys to also do a sympathetic interview with Andrew.

This is how guys have fun the same way that girls sit around and talk about real housewives. Yeah, absolutely. It's provado. It's just even Charlie Kirk comes out and says that Andrew is very smart man. And I'm not going to get into all the accusations against him. I don't know the truth or we'll find out.

But I will say this.

What he says is so powerful.

He doesn't approve the Tate's porn business. But what Andrew Tate is doing is he's communicating a warning of what happens when society. He comes to feminine. He understands why their messaging is resonating with so many people.

“Now, if I offend you with this good, because honestly it's the truth.”

And you need to hear. So all of a sudden these big voices on the American right who at the time are allies of promoters of President Trump. They're finding common cause with the Tates and they're seemingly identifying with their central message. Yeah, I mean, listen, these figures have their own audience and their own supporters. But I think that what's happening in this moment is that they're realizing that the Tates have a huge audience of their own.

And that if they can sort of interface with them, whether that's interviews or talking positively about them publicly, that they can tap into that audience and bring it into their fold. And that includes Donald Trump. In 2024, he is running for reelection and trying to reach audiences of young men. And remember, Donald Trump Jr. is already a fan of the Tates.

In fact, he's publicly defending them against the Romanian criminal investigation. And now Trump's youngest son, Baron, is also a fan. Baron is very much tapped into the many voices in the Manus Fear. And he's encouraging his dad to connect with them. Go on their shows.

Talk to Joe Rogan. Eat in Ross. He knows this landscape. He knows these guys. He is that young man.

And in 2024, he actually hosted a dinner in which he brought together some of these online influencers, including one of the Tates' best friends, a guy named Justin Waller.

He is widely seen as being like the third Tate brother.

They become friendly. And we learn that Baron has a Zoom call with Andrew Tate. Waller told me that on the call, they talked not just about the presidential election, but also about the Romanian criminal case and how they both thought it was unjustified. So at this point, you've got two of the president's sons in communication with Andrew Tate.

Correct.

And they are telling their massive following vote for this guy.

Right. And as we know, young men in particular end up being a very potent constituency for Trump. His ability to connect with the Manusphere really works to his benefit. And when Trump is reelected in 2024, I remember reading this Kamal Harris goes so far as to say that she missed the boat with the Manusphere.

And she even cites the support of people like Tate for Trump as helping to defeat her. Yes.

And after Trump is reelected, Andrew Tate isn't shy about his beliefs that it's going to have a real benefit for him in his criminal case.

He posts on X that the patriarchy is back. And the Tates will be free. Trump is the president. Wow, he really makes that linkage. Yeah, that's what he's saying publicly.

And we found that privately he was also expressing a belief that the Trump administration was helping him. In a January text to somebody close to him that we reviewed, he wrote, "I had word from the Trump admin that they're on top of things. I've been told I'll be free soon."

“And after all of your investigating, what do you come to understand and you Tate means?”

When he says that the Trump administration is on top of things, what does that mean in this context? Well, listen, I can't be sure exactly who he's referring to in this text. But there were multiple people in the administration who were openly supporting and defending of the Tates. In the White House, Paul and Garcia who served as liaison to the Justice Department and Alina Haba, who was serving as legal counsel to the president at the time. They both publicly backed the Tates.

Wow. And then there was Richard Grinnell, who is a special diplomatic envoy to the president. And we learned that behind the scenes, he discussed the Tates criminal case with at least two Romanian officials. One of them was a top advisor to the Romanian Prime Minister, Grinnell met him at Moralago. The other was the Romanian Foreign Minister, Grinnell spoke with him at this security conference in Germany.

And what we learned was that just weeks after that second conversation, this extraordinary order comes down from the highest levels of the Romanian government to the Romanian prosecutors,

“who had been investigating the Tates saying you need to reach a compromise with these guys. And they eventually agreed to lift the travel ban that they had used to keep the brothers in the country.”

And according to our sources, the Romanian Prime Minister believed that this would please the Trump administration. I just want to say how absolutely striking this to me, that one of the most senior officials in the Trump administration, Rick Grinnell, speaks to two of the most senior officials in the Romanian government about of all things in the early days of this second Trump administration. And with it a few weeks, the Tates circumstances change dramatically. They suddenly get to leave Romania. Correct me if I'm wrong. It feels like the Trump administration's role in getting them to that point seems pretty crucial.

It is. Now, spokesman said the White House was not involved in the Tates case. Still, our reporting found that support from the Trump administration played a crucial role.

And the Tates release. Feel that? So feeling of leaving Romania so we're off the ground. And as soon as the travel ban is lifted, they get on a plane and fly to Florida. What we do is win at the end. What we do is win. And, you know, not surprisingly, they make a video of themselves on this plane,

“but they're not fully celebrating leaving Romania. And what happens once the Tates land in the U.S. what is the reception?”

There returned to the United States actually turns out to be a bit more complicated than they likely expected. They arrive in Florida and Governor Ron DeSantis immediately speaks out against them says you're not welcome here. The Florida Attorney General launches an investigation. These are two Republicans we should say. Two Republicans and other conservatives are speaking out like Ben Shapiro and Megan Kelly who are saying it's a huge mistake to embrace these guys. You can really see that there is not uniform support for them here on the American right. And in fact, while they are in the United States, Andrew picks up another allegation of assault.

So one of Andrew's girlfriends at the time, Brianna Stern went to police and reported that he had sexually assaulted her and choked her when they were in Beverly Hills.

“And so it happened on March 10th and after that, I was in a concussive state for the next couple of days.”

She does some interviews with the press. I was scared to death. I was terrified that I might die. And also shares her account on social media. And she includes text messages. One text say allegedly writing, you back talk too much. So I beat you where he says things like, I really love hitting you. It's good for me. I mean, that's a pretty direct line. It would seem between the Trump administration's alleged intervention on the tape brothers behalf, which allows them to leave Romania and come to the United States.

“And the act of alleged abuse in Beverly Hills that occurs as a result, right?”

Yes, that's the allegation. I mean, I, you know, her police complaint didn't result in a criminal charge, but the two of them are now in a legal battle in civil court. And Brianna Stern at this point is one of several women who have started to publicly speak out about their experiences with Andrew tape over the years. And he strangled me until I passed out. And then when I came back around, he was still having sex with me while I'd been passed out. Others, including women from the UK who interacted with Tate over a decade ago, have also talked to the press.

Andrew would call us lazy hoses. I saw him smack girls with a bell. He used to, he used to strangle us as well. And there's a clear pattern in what these women describe of strangulation, of rape, of beating. And the new criminal charges against the Tates don't include names of the women, but they describe exactly this type of behavior. So what exactly are these new charges and why are they coming right now?

Prosecutors in Britain have issued 38 charges against the brothers, including rape and sex trafficking for alleged incidents that occurred between 2010 and 2017. And Andrew has also been charged with extreme pornography and indecent images of children.

And these are actually the second round of criminal charges that the British prosecutors have brought against them.

And so it's clear that their investigation of the brothers has been expanding and that not only are they issuing new charges, but they also made an extradition request to the United States government that allowed for the brothers to be arrested here.

“And that's what those U.S. marshals were doing in Miami.”

The Tates are now in jail while a federal judge considers the extradition request. And once again, the brothers deny all of this as they have all criminal allegations against them. Well, given everything you have told us about what happened after the raid in Romania with the Trump administration coming to the Tate Brothers defense and discussing the Tates with Romanian officials, you might think that the Trump universe would once again be activated and come to the Tate Brothers defense is that happening.

Not what we found is that with the kind of escalation of these charges with the extradition request being followed through by the administration.

With the Tates now behind bars, many of their one time powerful allies are distancing themselves.

So those administration officials that I mentioned, they now deny having any ongoing connection to the Tates or aren't commenting. There's been no word from the President's sons, Baron or Don Jr. Some of the media figures who defended them are declining to comment. And on Thursday. President Trump or the administration, do they have any plans to intervene in the extradition process of the Tate Brothers when asked whether President Trump intended to intervene in the case in any way. I've already answered that question Elizabeth, his press secretary said no.

And not much more than that just simply no.

Well, the Tates are facing more serious charges than ever before. And with the extradition request, the Trump administration has been forced to participate. It's had to take an official stand. If the administration said no, that would be a very brazen, very public act. I mean, it's extremely rare for the U.S. to reject an extradition request from the UK. And just more broadly, the benefit of associating with the Tates has gone down and the risks have gone up.

“I think that President Trump and others have actually come to realize through Jeffrey Epstein, just how politically damaging an association with even an alleged trafficker can be.”

I mean, I would argue that the Epstein story has been the dominant scandal of the President's second term and the parallels to the Tates are obvious.

And it's hard to imagine the administration wanting to do that all over again. Yeah, I think that's exactly right, Michael. And to that point, I have to wonder if they're reporting that you and Isabella did that demonstrated what seems to be meaningful efforts by those around the President to help the Tates last time. Would be a strong discouragement from them pursuing that strategy once again.

“I think our exposing the role that the support from the Trump administration had played in the Tates being freed from Romania has shown that there's going to be ongoing scrutiny of this that people are watching.”

I'm curious given the wide range of investigations you've been involved in when it comes to men accused of sexual abuse and the varying levels of accountability that those men have faced where the Tates fit in and stack up. Well, listen, after reporting on so many of these figures over the past decade, I can say that the Tates really stand out, not just because of the really serious criminal allegations against them, but how they've managed to use them to their benefit. You know, they've made these allies in high places, they've used the notoriety to build their fame to push their brand and spread what many people would see is a deeply misogynistic message to men around the world.

Right, what's very clearly unique about the Tate Brothers is not just the allegations against them as horrific as some of those are, but the reality that they have evangelized and prosulatized a entire mindset that demeans and disrespects women. Right, and I've watched as they've pushed the limits to the backlash to me too, and I've wondered, like, how far will they take it, how far will this go?

And I think in this moment with these new charges, with the extradition, with some of their powerful allies backing away, we may have finally found that limit.

Well, Megan, thank you very much. Thank you, Michael.

“Here's what else you need to know today. The saga of the botched renovation of the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool took a dramatic turn over the weekend, after originally blaming left-wing vandals for damaging the pool's new line.”

Federal prosecutors led by U.S. Attorney Janine Piero reversed course with drawing charges against an accused vandal, and instead blamed contractors hired by the Trump administration for shawty workmanship. That reversal infuriated President Trump, who blasted Piero's office in a social media post, writing, quote, "I disagree with Janine Piero 100%. And President Trump said he canceled a series of major airstrikes against Iran over the weekend, because progress had been reached on a piste that would include the immediate reopening of the straight-of-war moves.

But Trump offered no specific details, and it's unclear if his claim of a diplomatic breakthrough is true.

It was edited by Michael Menwaw and Patricia Willens, with help from Brendan Clinkenberg.

“It contains research help from Susan Lee, and music by Mariel Azano, Dan Powell, and Pat McCusker.”

Our theme music is by Wonderley. This episode was engineered by Alyssa Moxley.

That's it for the Daily. I'm Michael Babaro. See you tomorrow.

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