Doug Bopst Went to Jail and Came Back Unrecognizable

I cried because I didn't wanna go in.

Because of all the fears that we know with what jail looks like, and every fear I had in my mind,

“I thought was gonna happen, all of them.”

The day I left jail, I actually cried because I didn't wanna leave. I felt sorry for myself for so long, and I compounded so many bad habits on top of that, that I took my own power away,

and I took accountability away. I was so scared to do, but I got to jail, I was a zombie, I was nervous wrecked. It taught me to get comfortable being uncomfortable. I was forced to take accountability,

and I was forced to self-regulate, I was forced to change my habits, because otherwise if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be talking to you today, every day. If you want an easy life and you wanna be,

it's be fruitful, then choose the hard path, be uncomfortable.

In the moment you make that switch,

mentally, is the moment you take off. Your skull condition to do the hard thing, that you don't even think about it anymore. You just do what's right. - Got out in the rest of the sisterie, man.

- That's bad. - What's up, everybody? Welcome back, man. I got one for you today.

“It's a true story of reforming, transformation,”

and really taking something bad in this human being's life, and it's setting him up for massive success later on. I can't wait to share the story with you. I got Doug Bobs here with me today, and he's gonna blow your mind with his story and dude,

it is turned into such an incredible comeback story, man. So without further ado, welcome to the show, buddy. - Sean, thank you so much for having me. It's been amazing that I've been able to like monetize and build a brand out of my shortcomings.

I mean, it's America, right? I mean, holy shit, dude, it's like the things that, and it's so funny 'cause we're already getting into it,

it's like the one thing I've always wanted

the audience to understand is that it doesn't matter to shortcomings in the past or what you've been through. It's about where you're going, and no matter what, you can always come back. You truly can.

- Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter where you've been, and you can always come back, and I totally agree with it. I think where people get tripped up is when you're in the thick of it, it's hard to focus on anything else, but that problem.

Because your nervous system, just goes into fight or flight mode, and you get tunnel vision, you know, like, oh my gosh, I'm so stressed out, I'm so anxious. How am I going to pay my bills?

How am I going to beat addiction? How am I going to find another spouse? Or whatever the example is, and then if you're not careful, you don't create separation. What happens is you react quickly,

and you create one problem for your life. And that's one of the biggest mistakes I see is that, you know, we'll get into my story and we'll talk about other mistakes I made, and why that ended me, it landed me behind bars

on felony drug charges, but, you know, one of the biggest mistakes people make is that everyone goes through hard times. You know, I guarantee you in the last month, there's something in your life, Sean,

you're like, dang, like, that sucked dude, right? Or something that's in the coming months. But if you didn't create separation, and you didn't have tools, you could have easily been like, you know what, like,

I'm going to drink a bottle of vodka tonight. I'm going to go cheat on my wife. I'm going to go do all these things that you know, long term will create way more problems. So that's like the biggest thing I will say

about how do you make your shortcomings of success is it starts with creating separations so that you're able to create some forward momentum through that separation. You know, that's a good point, Doug.

But what I've also seen, and I'm sure you can echo this is when people go through something, whether it's, you know, an addiction, jail time, or something really embarrassing, you know, adultery and their marriage ends, whatever, whatever that is.

People like to attach that to their identity

“and to your point, you have to have some type of separation,”

because just because it's something you did and you've gone through and you're paying the price for it, doesn't necessarily mean that is who you are. - Yeah, there's a difference between I am a failure and I failed, right? I think two things can be true.

I think that if you do something horrible in your life, you know, I think you got to take accountability, you got to apologize where you need to, and you got to move forward. But if you make that your identity, you are screwed.

Because now you're like, oh my god, I'm a failure. So that means that everything I do in the future is not gonna go well, or I'm gonna be like, not as good as I could have been, or whatever the case may be,

because your identity is so wrapped up in that, and like hot take, that's one of the things I have an issue with, like AA and the 12 step community, to be transparent, I think it's a great thing for a lot of people. The one thing that I would disagree with

is that I don't think everybody needs to identify as being an addict for the rest of their life, because of the negative weight that term can carry with people with their identity. Now, there's people that wear it as a badge of honor,

and that are great in that thrive, and they're open about it, and they don't let it get to them,

like I'm an addict, so just staying sober,

is like the only thing I need to do, I'm an addict, so maybe I'm not wired to do this thing. I'm an addict, so I'm not gonna be good at X, Y, and Z, so totally agree, man, like identity plays a huge role in transformation.

- Do you think, and this could be a hot take, too?

“I think it's an interesting question is,”

do you think taking on that label of an addict leaves the door open for relapse later on down the road? - I think it does, because I think when you are trying to recover from addiction, I think what you must do

is you've got to create a different version of yourself. You have to reinvent yourself somehow, and so if you're only thing that you wanna accomplish is just to say sober and recovery, or how up whatever you see is being in recovery,

then that's a pretty low bar long term.

It's a great high bar in the short term, because of course, you wanna be able to abstain for those things. But long term, you wanna make more for your life, more out of yourself, you wanna have purpose,

and you wanna have meaning. And frankly, I think one of the biggest gifts that people have gone through addiction is turning that pain into purpose. It's using that pain in ways to help other people,

what's creating a brand, creating a business, or giving back, and it's hard to do that

“if the only thing you're focused on is just,”

like identifying as an addict, and letting that limit you for the rest of your life. I mean, you have to find other things to attach yourself to. - That's a great point, and as you're talking, I'm thinking, is it, I don't wanna say it was easy for you,

but in the attempt to create that separation by creating that new identity, I would imagine moving on from the old you is super important in order to do so, right? And I think a lot of people tried to hide their past,

but if you just speak about it and say, this is what I've done, this is who I am, then you're able to create that separation, build the business, become a trainer, become a three-time author like you have,

a show host, and get to be in rooms with a great people like Patrick Beddavit, and all these things that you've done, you know, I guess my question is, is like, when you create that new identity,

does it, does it help you separate from what happened?

“- It did sort of, I think that it took some time,”

why, the reason why is because it helped me in the short term because at the beginning, all I needed, all I needed to do was, all right, I need to take this day by day, and I need to focus on what I can control,

and become closer to that person that I wanted to become. Like I had this vision of being a guy that was jacked, to being a guy that was successful and all the things that as guys you want when you're younger, and it worked because every day I focused on that,

every day I was able to just abstain from the drugs that I was abusing, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then months later, I became a different version of my self-created new identity. I think where it can get trippy for people

is when there's a level of cognitive disc, what level of cognitive disc doesn't that's meaning, that when you get to that place where you transform your life so much, you don't recognize yourself, you can become unrecognizable,

but there's still a certain version of your, the old you that's still there. And if you don't work on it through therapy, through whatever form of self-help tool you use, it will hold you back.

And for me, that looked like, I would look myself in the mirror and be like, and I would still see the fat duck. I would still see the felon duck or the attic duck because my body and my life had changed so much

but I didn't do any inner work to validate that. And so it took me going to therapy and working through a lot of that to have the way that I saw myself and matched the identity that I created

from my transformation. I mean, to give you the most perfect idea, I don't say this to brag. I say this because it was the most, like some of the kind of crazy thing to look at

is when I started to really change my life and I got fit and I would say, I probably got like more attractive as a guy. People would come up to me and they'd say, oh my God, you look like Mark Wahlberg.

And I would be like, I would think to myself, is that an insult, is that an insult? I thought it was an insult because as a kid, I was not the most attractive kid, I was 40% body fat, I was out of shape.

And I got called names that reflected that and those names stayed with me for years. And so my identity of who I actually saw didn't match up to the external life that I created.

- Yeah, dude, that's powerful.

'Cause I can relate to this.

And at one point, back in 2024, I was up to 31% body fat. And I had to completely revamp my life.

“I had to completely figure out what was sustainable”

for me and how I can get this done. And I got lean, but there are still times where I'll look in the mirror and I'll still see the same person. And that is a wiring issue

that's something that I am working through. But I can relate to that, man, because I'll do when I was growing up, my buddy's nickname me Squishy, 'cause I was so fat. You know, and hence this funny nickname,

looking at it now, but I truly, I sure didn't like being called that on the baseball field. Who wants you to come on Squish? How Squish? Like, no one wants you to hear that shit.

It's just your constantly programming, like, you're not good enough to your fat, your fat, you're disgusting, unattractive, not worthy. - Yeah, I mean, dude, I'm sorry. I understand how that shapes you.

And you begin to believe your own stuff, right? I think your perception of yourself

“and the way you see yourself can become hijacked”

based on what you believe about what other people say about you. Like, people call it me Down Syndrome Doug, when I was a kid, because you were water-brain, yeah, it was bad.

And I never stood up for myself.

I was not like a fighter, you know, so it was hard to repel that. But I will say, when I went to jail on felony drug charges, it was all there and I had to deal with it in the most raw way possible.

And I felt sorry for myself, because the story feels good to you. As I'm explaining what kids said to me and I could tell you other things, you'd be like, oh my God, Doug, that's terrible.

It's so bad. And parts of it certainly were, but I felt sorry for myself for so long. And I compounded so many bad habits on top of that, that I took my own power away.

And I took accountability away. And when I was in jail, I was forced to take accountability again. I was forced to self-regulate. I was forced to change my habits,

because otherwise, if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be talking, I wouldn't be talking to you today. I'd be dead. Hey guys, we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna slide into our recovery segment,

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So let me know how you guys like it and tell then, stay determined. Yeah, so let's get into that, man. You know, let's go back to sync it in a mile of 2008. You know, you're, you've got a ton of cash in the car.

“You know, you've got a ton of weed in your trunk, right?”

And you're going with your friends to pick up some oxy cotton. What happened? - So that was like the biggest setback in my life that turned into the biggest blessing. So at this time, I'm 20 years old,

I'm 40% body fat, I'm addicted to opiates, cocaine, weed, everything, and I'm selling drugs on top of that. And so nothing else mattered in my life but those things, but doing and selling drugs. And I say that because I had a busted headlight

that I had been told to fix forever. But I was like, man, it would take too much time away from my ability to do or sell drugs so I didn't worry about it. So sync it in my 2008, I'm riding with a few of my friends

to make a drug deal, there's a cop running radar. And I thought it would be a great idea to flash my high beams at the cop, to hide the fact that I had a busted headlight. Of course it gave me a reason to pull me over

“'cause he's like, why is this more on high beaming me?”

You know what I mean? And then I see the sirens go on, my heart starts racing. I just feel like butterflies in the pit of my stomach. I mean, I knew that my life was over in that moment at least I thought.

He pulls me over, he starts questioning me.

and pulls me out of the car, puts me in handcuffs

and finds half pound of pot that was in my trunk, finds $2,000 in cash in my glove box, a scale, a couple other things. And I'm in handcuffs and I'm in the back of this cop car. And I remember this vividly

and I remember sitting in the back of the cop car

“and just sitting and saying to myself like, how did I get here?”

Like, how did I get to this place where I'm now arrested on felony drug charges, not understanding what's going on, not understanding if I'm gonna live to see my 25th birthday, all these things.

And it came down to my inability to deal with this comfort and stress and anxiety and to stand up for myself and confidence. And so I get taken to jail that night and I'm charged with a felony,

possesses him with the intent to distribute marijuana and then shortly after that, I go to court in September of 2008. And the judge, in my opinion, at that time had thrown the book at me, meaning he gave me

that the worst possible sentence,

the worst possible sentence and that was going to jail. He's looked at me, he said, "Dug, you're 20 years old, this is really bad, you're clearly guilty. They had to scale money in a bunch of pot,

like there was nothing else I needed to prove." That was some drugs, right? Exactly. (all laughing) - The water, baby.

He said, "But I'm gonna give you a deal." And I'm thinking to myself,

“"Where's the deal going to be 'cause I know I'm going to jail?"”

He's like, "I'm sentencing you to five years, "but everything's gonna be suspended "but 90 days, but 90 days." So for the people who are listening or watching, who don't, or aren't familiar with it,

that that means that I go to jail for 90 days. And if I violate probation, if I commit another crime, I could go back before him and he could give me the full five years

if I mess up again. Then he gave me five years of probation, which when you're on probation, you got to pee in a cup regularly, you got to meet with an officer,

you got to do classes, you got to do all that stuff. 200 hours of community service, all kinds of fines and drug classes. But he looked at me and he said, "Dug, you're young, "you're 20 years old.

"This felony conviction is gonna haunt you "for the rest of your life." He said, "I'm gonna give you a break." If you complete everything, every single thing without messing up,

no misprovation appointments, you do the jail time, everything. I will take away your guilty conviction and give you probation before judgment at the end of the five years. So that essentially means like a free pass.

But it's still like on the record, but it's not a guilty conviction anymore. And so I thought to myself, I'm like, "I'm high in court. "I'm gonna get high when I leave.

"I'd already been to the friend's funeral "as this point in my life." I don't know if I'm gonna live this in my 25th birthday, but what other choice do I have? I'll take the deal.

And so he gives me a few weeks to gather my belongings, and I end up being able to celebrate my 21st birthday of my friends and about a week after I reported the jail, and the first thing I had to do was detox cold turkey from OxyCotten.

And when I went in the jail, I cried because I didn't wanna go in because of all the fears that we know with what jail looks like. And every fear I had in my mind,

I thought was gonna happen, all of them. But the day I left jail, I actually cried because I didn't wanna leave. And the reason is this, when I first reported the jail,

I had this horrible opiate detox to go through for weeks. And it felt like having the worst case to the flu for a week straight. And then my student to be sell-mate Eric, who looked like a more jacked version

of Brad Pitt from Fight Club, he looked at me, and he's like, "You're gonna start working out "with me when you get through your detox."

I never say, "I'm like, "Man, there's no way

"I'm gonna go to work out with you. "I could be a model for Pillowsbury right now." That's how, like, doughy I was, right? And he was just like, "Man, man, man, whatever." And so shortly after that,

we have a conversation in the cell that changed my life. He looked me in the face and he's talking to me. Just like any, just like if you were an eye, we're like having a conversation as friends, and I was going through something,

you would probably ask me some questions, same what I would do with you. So we start to ask me some questions. He says, "Dog like, why are you in jail? "What happened?"

And I start blaming my friends, I start blaming my parents, I start blaming everything else, but myself. And instead of him coddling me, which I was used to, he looked at me and he said, "Quick being a bitch."

And I was like, "Man, what did he just call?" 'Cause you don't want to, I mean, it's bad and I forget called a bitch and real life,

“but you don't want to be ever be called that in jail, right?”

Like, it's not not a good thing to be called. - Not a term of the government. - That's true. And so I said, "What do you mean? "Why did you say that to me?"

He's like, "You're blaming everybody else "for your problems but yourself." He said, "There's plenty of people that grew up, "just like you did, had the same experiences "that aren't in jail, right, Doug?"

I said, "Yup, he said, "You have two choices. "Be a man, look yourself in the mirror "and say that you got yourself here, "or be a bitch, go cry in the corner "and say, "Whoa, it was me and feel sorry for yourself."

He said, "Most people will take that route

And at that time, a lot of the drugs come out of my system,

this guy came into my life with no real skin in the game. He wasn't like a good friend of mine at the time. He wasn't a relative. And I just said, "All right, he's right. "What else do I have to lose?"

And so all right, man, I'll try to work out with you. And bro, as a guy that was insecure, not confident, fat, like all the things, my biggest fear was, I'm gonna get out in front of all these men and try to do a push-up, and I'm gonna collapse

and they're gonna laugh at me. And so I get down to a push-up for my feet. I could collapse immediately. Then I get down and try to do one for my knees collapse. No one laughed at me, which was very rewarding.

So I was like, man, okay, it's not that bad,

“but I was like, man, Eric, why can't I do a push-up?”

He's like, you're fat. He's like, well, he's like, I'm not gonna share code it. He's like, your core is where you can get a bunch of body. You have no upper body strength. You're completely just the condition.

And you can't hold yourself up to do a push-up. So for the next few months, while I was in jail, he committed a training me every single day during my sentence. And he had obviously done this a time or two, before 'cause he knew the prescription.

It wasn't, like, all right, let's do a set of 10 push-ups. He's a guy, man. We're gonna start with holding yourself up in a plank position from your knees. Can we do that cool?

Then I master that from the feet or from your, without your knees, cool. Then it was like, can you hold yourself up, you know, in a push-up position from your knees, cool? Let's just go down and try to do a push-up.

And so we worked our way up through that process of going from not being able to hold myself up

“for my knees to being able to do a set of 10 push-ups”

by the time I left my jail sentence. And the same thing happened with running. Like, I was fat and so de-conditioned when I entered jail. I could barely walk them down in the steps 'cause I was also smoking cigarettes.

And in jail, there's no like tread mills, at least where I was. No tread mills, no lip. The clothes, there's no formal quote-unquote gym, but we had a perimeter around the common area,

and we had a deck of cards. And so every time I would finish a lap, I would pass a card from my left hand to my right hand. It's like a track, you know, the distance by that. And then so one thing leads to the next with that,

and I went from barely being able to walk to being able to run a mile by the time my sentence was over. And all of that changed me. Why? It changed me because it taught me to get comfortable

being uncomfortable. Like, I was so scared to do when I got to jail. I was a zombie, like, I mean, people called me a zombie. I was going through OPAT talks. I was nervous wreck, but it changed me.

It got me comfortable embracing discomfort. It taught me how to manage my emotions effectively. 'Cause there was times where I was anxious, I was stressed, I was sleepless, all the things, but I couldn't act out.

So it would've either got my butt kicked, sent to a different area that I didn't want to be, or gotten more time. It also taught me the importance of just showing up, even when I didn't feel like it.

There was times I didn't want to work out. There were times I didn't want to do the thing, but I had to, because this guy helped me accountable. And the other thing was, it really taught me

that, you know, it's never too late to change your life.

Like, I wanted more for myself. I just didn't have the blueprint on how to do it. And with him helping me and giving me these tools along the way, and it really shaped my outlook on where I was headed to. And it got, like, I got sunny for me towards the end of my sentence

that I cried the day I left jail, because this transformation had happened so intensely. That I didn't know how it was going to survive without being behind bars. It's crazy as that sounds. And he gave me a workout plan that's framed right here,

so it behind me and that on that shelf,

“so you can never, so I never forget where I came from.”

And that's bad gas. God out in the rest of the history, man. Dude, you know, one thing that I want to highlight as listening to you, any time I have fucked up in my life, right? It doesn't have to be a massive, you know,

jail sentence for anybody. It could just be, there's a moment where you just fuck up, right? When you see people doing things that aren't great decisions, at all points back to one thing, we're seeking comfort in that moment. You know, if you're an addict, it's comforting to be high,

because that's how you're escaping, right? Because you're not taking any accountability. So my thing is like listening to this and for the audience, guys, like really listening, and if you need to rewind back and listen to what he's saying

is like, like, the comfort is really what brought you there. And you had to get super comfortable with being uncomfortable. And it's something that this show in the conversations

that we have here always land on is like,

you want a hard life, you better choose the comfortable route. If you want an easy life and you want to be fruitful,

In the moment you make that switch, mentally,

is the moment you take off, because every single day, if I'm comfortable, bro, I freak the fuck out. Like, I don't like feeling comfortable, man. Like, so if I'm in the gym, I'll try something different. Oh, it's a leg day, cool, I'll try something different.

I hate Bulgarian split squats, but you know what? I think they're the devil.

“But if I don't do them, I'm seeking comfort, right?”

So I'll play games with myself. And then the next thing that I have to do, right? Maybe a hard conversation with a colleague or my wife or my children, it's like, you're so conditioned to do the hard thing that you don't even think about it anymore.

You just do what's right. And what makes it harder is that when you're in these intense moments, like you just want to feel like things are going to be okay. And when people use drugs in that moment, it feels like things are going to be okay,

because you're checked out. So you're not thinking about distress. You're not thinking about the relationship issues. You're not thinking about what happened yesterday because you're numb.

And then you wake up the next day and they crap. That feelings back. So now I need more and more. It's a tough battle, but you're right. We're so afraid of discomfort.

And without discomfort, there would be no change, right? If I were doing the drugs and I was younger and life was good, I probably wouldn't have changed my life. I wouldn't have needed to.

“And that's why you see so many people that are like functioning”

addicts because, I mean, they can make a million dollars a year

and drink a bottle of wine or night. And to be honest, there's a good chance they might not have the same problems that a lot of other people have because they're going to have financial stability. Maybe they can buy their way into certain relationships,

maybe they can buy things for their kids that buy them some time or to take away from the pain where people will be like, well, it's not that bad at home. He buys me a new car every year, he pays the bills or whatever. Because I think that's a thing that happens so much.

And it's like, there's a funny, I don't know if a comedian said this or not, but it's like with something that's really cool for rich people to do, but frowned upon for broke people to do, is day drinking. You know, that's so true.

So true. Oh, and I don't think that either of it's okay. I think if you have a problem and you're drinking during the day, you should definitely get help. But we look at people, like on the side of the street who we're drinking

as problems, but then we don't address the same problem with people that do it. And privately and again, I don't want to get into like the politics of it. And I understand that people who are out in the street, like have a lot of them have mental health issues.

And I'm not talking about them just saying, if you look at like the action

“to behave, you're, I think we tend to view things a little bit differently.”

Sometimes. Well, there's a double standard there for sure, right? I mean, certainly learning as a man. I mean, like, it's irrefutable. I mean, you look at somebody that that is poor, maybe, and

homeless, like, oh, you're drinking during the day. That's why. But if you're rich and you're a multi-millionaire, it's like, well, you're clearly taking care of your shit. It's fine.

You're a millionaire. It doesn't necessarily make it right. But people justify it because they look at that metric of income as the ultimate measurement. And really, even though that multi-millionaire is functional in the

career, making a ton of money, the alcohol may not be the, that main, the alcohol may not be affecting that part of their life. But what about their children? What about their marriage? What about their friendships?

Like, those parts of their lives can be completely blown up. And we don't know. So I just think that, hey, look, you want to go out there in day drink. You want to drink, I don't drink any more period. Not because I'm super against it or anything like that.

It's just, I don't feel good on it. Like, what's the point, right? I think if I do it, right? I used to say, well, I only do it during college football season, right? Because it's where I found my comfort on game days.

I would get drunk, I would escape from the week, I'm stressed out and I was like, wait a second. I don't know. We're not doing that any longer. It's it was uncomfortable for me to make that switch, right?

Because people judged me. And they still do. You know, I'll, where's the fun shot? I'm like, I'm a blast. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling great, dude.

Like, I can have an intelligible conversation with you today, and not forget what

the fuck we talked about yesterday, you know, and then I can wake up in the most important

in the best part is, I can wake up and actually be a present father. Well, you bring up a really good point, because you asked me earlier, is the identity part, is that what makes or breaks people from surviving addiction and changing their life?

And the reason I say that is not because you have to feel like you're on top of the world

all the time, but if you're not a confident person, you will not believe in your ability to change your life. If you're not a confident person, you're going to get the stuff like people say to you, like, oh my god, don't be a worse, come on, where's the fun shot? And you're not going to stand up for yourself and you're going to drink and you're going

to destroy your life. If you're not confident, your energy is just going to be off putting for people.

“So I think you have to, you have to go through it to build that confidence.”

I think part of building confidence is surviving those storms. Like people think that building immense amounts of confidence comes from getting from zero to 100, it comes from zero to like three in my opinion. It's like there's initial steps of surviving the suck and believing you that you can get through difficult moments in your life.

Because that's what shapes you is, can I survive hard times? Can I conquer things that scare me? And can I commit to doing things I want to do when it doesn't make sense to. Like it's easy for you to go to the gym now and it's easy for you to show up on podcasts with me when you've been doing it for so long.

What's tough is when you weren't in shape and then figuring out a way to find the motivation to go to the gym. Or to podcasts when you have just your parents and your wife listening. You know what I mean? It's like those are the moments that when you show up and you still continue to do it.

“That's what builds confidence because you're creating some level of validation within yourself.”

This is where I want the audience to really latch on, right? Just talking about building confidence and that recipe looks different for every individual. But I think there's only one real viable way to build confidence. So do the hard shit. Do the stuff that you said you were going to do.

You know, even when the emotion of it wears off, you say you're going to wake up at six and get the gym, then wake up at six and get to the gym because if you do that, it's a vote for you. It is a vote for that person that gets up and says, I'm going to do something then they go freaking do it. Too many people are looking at it this way though.

I can have confidence if I just get in great shape and they make it about the vanity and

the aesthetic portion of that confidence building and that never sticks.

It never sticks man. It has to be you building the confidence by doing the damn work and staying in a frickin standard and to me that will give you an unbreakable amount of confidence and when my wife started noticing the shift in me because of the nutrition, because of the lifting and aesthetically what I look like.

It's a lot different and she said like that you used to have this thing and she always told me this, you have this, everybody has confidence, like this confidence of reservoir. You have none in the reservoir, like none and it could be from your childhood, your upbringing, whatever it was, but for me, once I started building me from the inside out and changing that that reservoir filled up.

So you could literally two years ago tell me that my shows, the worst show ever and you

never come on my show and that would hurt me.

Now it's like okay dude, whatever the fuck you say, like that's that's your opinion. But it's not an arrogant thing is I built confidence up through doing the hard things and sticking with everything I said I was going to do that built a confidence level to me that it just can't be broken unless I break it myself by not doing the things I said I was going to do.

“I'm really glad that you brought up this this point because like I remember when I was”

getting into shape, I was like when I get this, my problems would go away and for me that was like I want to six pack abs, I want five percent body fat, I want veins going through my arms and I got that stuff and I also got a lot of attention from women, I got everything that I thought I wanted, but because I didn't build that myself because that the well was being filled from all that other stuff and not for myself, it didn't feel right.

I get reinforced that cognitive dissonance I referred to earlier where I didn't feel validated properly and I could say the same thing about like what I do now in the content creation space, like you know I remember I was like man I can't wait to like get the silver plaque from YouTube from many a hundred thousand subscribers, I'm going to be so happy and then you get it I mean I love it and think I'm props to YouTube I love YouTube but I remember

getting it and I'm like man it doesn't feel as good, it doesn't feel as sweet as I thought

more stuff and it got me to think man like that whole I don't know who created that whole like when I get there complex like when I get this I'll be happy when I get this I'll be happy it just shows how true it can be and if you're not careful it'll really hold you back and it's not to say that you can't set goals and you can't be proud of you know doing the stuff that we do it's more like where is that leading it is it leading you to pursue more

just for the sake of pursuing more or is it like leading you to do things because you actually in your heart want to do them and it's like you know me getting that plaque it was great because you know I had it just shown how hard I worked but if I if I wasn't careful I could have been like oh my god like I'm the man this is the end I'll be all for why I do what I do is these trophies right and so that's something that I I wouldn't say I struggle

with it like it limits me but I think about it a lot I think it's especially in our world where our level of success from the outside it's people see it we have a scorecard right like people can see how many followers you have how many followers I have how many subscribers I have you have reviews comments people see that if you're an accountant if you're like a financial planner I mean unless you really piss someone off and you get a really bad google review or something

people aren't seeing the scorecard so if you're you're not careful it can be a trap that you fall into which I'm really it's why I'm really thankful that I've done a lot of work on myself before getting into this space because otherwise I mean if I had been the dug of the younger me I'd be a freaking nightmare I do I know the Sean back in the day I don't I didn't like him

“you know he he doesn't need to come out and play like ever like ever you need to stay in the past”

he can stay where he's at really really funny thing like dude how did you get your plaque I

never got one my only did you like fill out the form what form I think they send you a

I forget how it went down they sent me like a a thing I can email I think that it was a congratulations I think or maybe you I forget if I had to submit something but then like they validate interesting like the channel and everything and then yeah I got the plaque like not too long after that I'm gonna have to figure that out that'll be a good thing to have yeah definitely look at that I mean I yeah I mean I know but I do know for me I can't wait to get a hundred thousand subscribers

and then it was a now I can't wait to get a hundred and fifty and then and you have to say to yourself like what's the bigger picture here because if you're just chasing numbers eventually that that gets old so I had to be like all right I want to create like it's such a dangerous game bro like and they do like what you're saying right here like I'm loving this portion of the conversation because

I'm the same way I remember sitting there waiting for us to hit a million lessons in a year

and in 2024 we finally did it we hit it in November okay and I thought it was going to be this massive moment where everybody just bowed down. Do that ain't shit like that wasn't I look back now I'm like that that wasn't anything and once I got there I had like two days of like just in the shit like just destroyed like what now oh my god I feel so empty and so for the audience is I want you to picture this if you sit there and say and you're chasing something you're

chasing a number for us you know in the content creation and the artwork of actually having a show and crafting meaningful conversations like our scorecards wide open for everybody like if you

“have a software you can look right you can literally find everything you need to know about me”

about Doug and everything that we do it's on display but the win is not in the attainment of that number it is who you become in the process of it right now we talked about it's become cliche but it's fucking true it's like literally who you are becoming while you're chasing that number that's the gift could be right talked about it all the time like those moments in the build up that is the moment the the the the the attainments the attainment so now we fast forward right

and it's like we did what we were doing in a year in a month now and now I'm like I need to get

to 4 million a month I need to get to 5 million a month you're always going to be searching for

that next level and it's okay if you are becoming something so strong and focusing on that portion of it then I think you can't afford to be a little bit okay what's next but if you let it

“control you it can take away every ounce of your freaking joy yeah one of the things that I think”

people assume at least I thought that when I get like this amount of subscribers or views or whatever that I'll be able to get like all the a-list guests everybody wants on their show right

the exposure they have their own and so it becomes this kind of crazy game I guess in our space

“that if you're not careful you end up spending so much time and effort to like lock in a huge”

guest and then either that guest is in a line with your audience or maybe they aren't as good as you thought they or whatever and then it takes away from your ability to hit like the consistent singles and doubles which is what I try to do with my show is like hey like is it cool to get is it amazing to get somebody like Patrick that David of course amazing guest awesome combo

like one of the best episodes I've ever done but those don't always happen you know and if I

were to like chase that every single time I would miss out on these opportunities of just hitting singles and doubles like every episode like all right like good solid guests for the show just keep it in bounds you know what I mean like instead of like grand slam after grand slam I mean the reason I grand slam is so impressive is because it's very rare that it happens right if it happened all the time people wouldn't it wouldn't be as interesting you know it's so funny because it's like

“I think in terms of the same same as you I was talking to production earlier and we're going through”

a bunch of different things that you know we had I had coming and you know you know potential travel for for guests and things that nature some home runs right and I started thinking about the man you factoring runs because I'm a baseball guy right I'm a walk I'm a bunny over I'm gonna drive them in and then we're gonna get a base hit and we're gonna hit and run and so like I just feel like if every single time you record if you're staying like you said in bounds

with your show on brand you're having meaningful conversation you can take what you think as a single and that could be a marquee interview because you don't know the energy and the conversations that's gonna come out of that guest with you I have been so surprised at certain guests that I've had on that were local people I'm like all right cool I'll do it and it turns out to be a bang or episode because they were so open and it was on brand and then people were in

inspired by it because they could relate to them so sometimes the singles or the hit by pitch turn into a home run they and you just don't know so you just have to stay in line and on brand

“and execute everything you can because that's the only thing you can control dude yeah it is and”

you know you never know it's like you know you see a lot of people that will have these huge

names on they have massive followings and I guess the the theory is which logically it makes sense but once you've been in the game long enough you know it doesn't is that this person has 15 million followers on social media I'm just drawing that number out as an arbiter as an easy number that means that 50 million people are gonna listen to my podcast if I have that person on right funny and it doesn't work that way and on top of that like odds are like if you host a show

like mine and yours or you're like trying to reach people that are on the come up or people are trying to you know inspire themselves and that are normal average people so to speak like somebody

who you know who's worth 50 million dollars and I can relate to as much as somebody like listening

to you or other people that are more in their sphere like it's like it's harder to be like it's harder to relate to relate to somebody's problems like that because like oh they got 50 million dollars they got all these fall they can just buy their way out of anything like I can't you know I'm kind of screwed right now so how does that relate to me? You're right though you're right because we went on a long run where we were having celebrity after celebrity you know best selling author after

best I mean New York Times best selling authors right and I thought it was cool but then I saw like a disconnect you know there was the audience going what happened to the stories and it turned into a PR to or instead of giving value to the audience so quickly shifted on a dime 180 I go I'm not doing this shit anymore because I was starting to feel disconnected and if I feel disconnected my audience is going to sleep right so we we changed it into your point though

the feedback was we'd love a big guess because we'd love to see you do well right we love seeing you in rooms with Jay Leno and well you make macy those big names but that's not necessarily what gets a platform to go what gets a platform to go is the ethos around it is the is the very very foundation of what you are trying to help people with what you're trying to exude and that is a fine line for people like us to kind of toe and dance on it's like all right is this going to

do well and a lot of times I have to sit there and I don't know what your process is when I'm pitched a guest right or someone you know slides into my deems like hey I love to be on your show

process you know you either get introduced to me from a good friend like Kwame right or you know PR or somebody else's PR or I'm like very interested in what you're doing because I can see it right but I just think it's super important when you're vetting these guests out and these conversations is like what's the message I don't care if they have 200 followers I don't care if they've got

200 million what's the story what can my audience get out of it can my audience relate and if

they can relate I do it because it's my job to be the gatekeeper for them I got to bring them good shit yeah I have a similar I have a similar process I mean I get hit up a lot too and I get tons

“of pitches that I think most of them at this point are AI like an AI probably should be smelling”

emotions or these massive emails that's like I really enjoy your episode with so-and-so and they pitch me a guess it has nothing to do with that topic you know what I mean and um it's so well why do you have my guest that would appreciate you but you're right it's more it's either through like friends it's through relationships with PR people at built in the past it's it's also like what are the what are the core themes of my show that I want to hit on like you know it's mental health

addiction it's wellness it's mindset and where can I find the people that fit into that and topics that interest me um and it's been it's evolved over the except there was a point where I would be like I don't have that person on they have a cool story or but then there was times where I'm like man like I got to be 100% dialed like you said into the conversation or I'm like I'm like tapped out because I get kind of bored you know if I'm not interested in in the conversation

but you know you look at somebody like Andrew Heberman who have known for a long time

before he had the podcast he's got an amazing show and content he has only scientists that

have zero platform a lot of times you know what I mean and that episode's do well and it's because he's a really effective communicator he stays on brand with what he says he's going to talk about and he's incredibly smart and engaging in these conversations and that sets a take home message for me because you know I'm a I had coffee with him a few years ago whenever we were just talking shop

“and he said to me he's a hey man like just remember it's going to be easy to chase trends and”

try to hit the home run but just like be consistent be consistent and it was at a time where I needed to hear that message because like you know I it's easy to like it caught up in

what's popping off or people that you want to have on that are famous and

stuff but you're right like if you don't make the call for yourself you're kind of your screw long-term because then the audience with this in the age does great advice from Heberman man because that right there's a real dude right because to your point into his point like chasing trends grow people chase that shit in our industry all the time I mean how can the so-and-still going on one topic right I mean like look man it's a trend it's something that's not going to die

down for a very long time because people want answers they're not going to get answers and she's just going to keep caching in those analytics dude but she jumped on a trend I refuse to do that you know I want to have like you were saying and like Andrew was saying have meaningful conversations your audience is coming to you for a reason given what they want you know in for Andrew I mean his audience wants information you know they they want to learn so having a scientist on

is going to make much more sense for him than maybe somebody massively massively famous because the audience isn't going to connect with it because they're not going to get the value it's unrelatable yeah but I mean these that these shows like we that we really I think admire early or inspire us like oh my god their their show is awesome we like them I think because they're authentic and because they stay true to their own stem their own selves they're brand and

you know not chasing after trends you know I I remember when you know the politics became like the thing to chase after in the self-help space like oh my god now I got to talk about politics

“because that's what the algorithm wants like I refused you know I said I'm not going to do it”

I know I'll probably make I would probably make more money I would get more reach on my business I'll probably suffer if I don't but just not what I want to do I'm yeah you're going to stay alive yeah you know and I know there's nothing about it yeah I have been seriously mean either it's like what am I what am I going to talk about it's just going to be me regurging Tady regurgitating

you can't create great content that way you need to fully be behind it or on like you said like you'll

tune out it'll be gone like you we've I think we've all had those interviews right we're sitting there and it's like like we're almost out an hour right now and it's been like it feels like five minutes we've all been on a conversation that's been 50 minutes long and it feels like a fucking eternity

“those those are moments where you have to evaluate did I do the right thing or was it just the”

energy from the guests right or like sometimes it just doesn't work man it just it just doesn't you know let's fast forward a little bit because we're coming down towards the back part of the show and and I want you to you know go back to the day you know you said you cried when you got out you know because that's where you built yourself you had this unshakable amount of determination discipline and accountability right but now we fast forward and now you're this award-winning

certified trainer you're a three-time author you have a podcast you work with people and building their confidence and their bodies up walk the audience through what you are doing now

so it's been a long journey you know I was never the confident person I am now I was never a speaker

like this outgoing and all this was built through adversity and I share that because I think everybody assumes or they think I think they know that this isn't true that it's just like you

“go from like zero to a hundred super quick it's like no you go from zero to one from one point two”

to one point three maybe you jump to one point seven and then like over time you're like on the week down the point five he exactly and so I got out of jail you know I was still like a mess you know even though I had my life change I had to work on myself and dealing with cravings and you know getting into fitness really helped change my life and change my mindset but then when I became a trainer because I wanted to help other people like use the gift of fitness that gave me

an easy platform to share my story and it and it took a while because I first I was so ashamed of that you know it was like oh my god are these people who are paying me a lot of money are they going to still trust me if I'm a felon if I was in jail do they think I'm going to steal from them you know like stigma exists with people that were incarcerated just a real thing right

um and so I hit it for a while never lie but I kind of just danced around the question when people

would ask me but anyway one day I eat one of my clients ask me so what happened like can you just tell me and I'd said I'd shared my story like in the highlight real and just like oh my god like

“I thought the world of you already and now I really think the world of you can grasp that's like”

man like that's cool like they're not going to judge me and so I really started to think about I started to think about this idea that the people that are going to judge you for something that happened and that you've already worked through that they're not meant to be in your life and you shouldn't listen to that I mean if you're still like doing the thing I can understand people judging you because it's like it's very easy to do so right and then I realized that it's not that

scary to just be honest and so I started to share my story more people and then I did local media and we talked about fitness and then people were interested in my story and they're a lot of local press and then that led to like other national media or media opportunities from the today's show and it's health it didn't impact theory of Tom Billy you and Retrol's podcast like all these cool things that have helped me build the credibility and the platform that I have today

and also it helped that I you know have stayed on the straightened arrow as far as my recovery and the felony came off my record I followed through with what I told the judge I would do and in 2014 he took the felony conviction off my record and gave me that PBJ and now my record is completely expunged I mean I still have the docs the receipts to prove it in case anyone's like you're lying you didn't go to jail like I have the receipts to prove that I did actually I was

actually sentenced to jail and and so all that being a trainer speaking like starting with local media and then moving on to national media and building relationships like helped prepare me for the podcast to like get on shows and see how they interview them they go I like that what didn't I like what man that guy does a lot of research and it made me feel special like that kind of stuff to to where I you know I have the show now that's called the adversity

advantage where you know I love having interesting conversations and helping people through hard times being a trainer is is still a it's still part of my business it's not as big as it used to be because the show has grown so much and I've evolved and the doing other things with my big passion like right now if you're like hey like what is it that you want to be doing and like doing it's helping young men there's a lot there's a young man crisis that exists right now

you have a lot of young men that are lonely they don't have girlfriends or addicted to weed porn vaping like everything and if you lost and so you know I'm trying to kind of step into that

manosphere know everything else which I don't like but I think you know I think I have some cool things to say and I've mentioned a lot of young men over the years and I understand what their struggles are so what I'm sharing here with you isn't like me regurgitating headlines

it's like no I've worked with a lot of guys that have never had girlfriends or that like are

afraid to ask a girl out where the vape all the time and smoke a bunch of weed and they have mental health issues because of all that and and so it's really trying to tap into that

“is the next phase of my purpose in life is is trying to fill that void for them”

you know it's crazy is like I'm listening to your story right and it's so easy from the outside looking in like wow that day a synco to mile 2020 a 2008 that's the moment your life started yeah like literally the build from that point on it was like the Lord said hey dude you're not getting it I'm gonna hit you with this you're gonna go rehabilitate you're gonna become stronger

and you're gonna lead and help people did you ever think in a million years on that day that it

would turn into something like this now man no way like I went to so many funerals as a kid for friends of mine and not just people that like oh my god like we were on like a sports team like five years and like people like that I saw the night before dead and having to go to a few

“and it rolls when you're that age it it does two things to you want it numbs you out to pain and”

know what death actually is because you mess up the circle of life and then it also convinces you that maybe you're next and because you convince yourself that maybe you're next maybe you do do things that just sabotage that for yourself and the other thing um you know that I will say is when I was in jail and when I was detoxing from opiats you're gonna probably want to clip this when I was detoxing from opiats there was a lot of horrible symptoms that I went through

the vomiting or the bowel movements the anxiety the stress but the thing that was hardest to deal with that now was the biggest blessing was this feeling of crawling out of my own skin right felt like an old version of me was leaving and as I look back now years later

“I can confidently say that I believe it was the old version of me leaving so that the new me”

could become born and healed was that symptom and and and and and and for anyone who's gone through detox so that feeling where you feel like your body is like trying to leave itself but it can't because that we kind of trippy it's weird and you're like oh my gosh like I'm so restless and it just feels like my like my I know you're a big fairer gun guy like it just feels like the bit that your legs like a fairer gun and it's on all the time you know what I mean yeah the low level vibration oh man like

that's intense yeah that's intense because I don't have a frame of reference I don't know you know like like I love hearing these stories because you know like it's funny because like you know I'm 47 they're like a lot of accipients bro I'm always throwing that Theragon on my ass like my my elbows my my neck and you know in a little rattle you man it's strong and so when you made that reference between like hey when you're going through detox and you're vibrating and you're like

wanting to rush out your skin it's a lot like having the Theragon on you like I can imagine you know that coupled with emotion of knowing what you're actually going through is super hard to handle right I mean that that to me sounds like the ultimate discomfort

dude it was the worst I mean there's first few weeks in jail I would never wish

on anyone just because of all the emotional pain that I had to like unravel through that process do you ever ask yourself when you're in jail detoxing I got arrested I got sentence and I waited until I was about to go in to stop using opiates did I ever ask myself why why did that like what am I doing like now I'm detoxing and prison like this is crazy you know well I kind of fooled myself because I had gotten a prescription of suboxone which I you can only get prescribed

if you fail a drug test for opiates and suboxone is like a modern day methadone where it helps you detox helps you with cravings and stuff like that so I I snored a bunch of oxy cotton before I went in the jail thinking I'll be good tomorrow I can take the subox and help me through detox but obviously I wasn't thinking clearly because it's a it's a type of an narcotic

take it with me or whatever when I left but yeah I'm going to have this awake this this moment

where you you just start to cry oh and you're you lose it emotionally because you're like why did I why did I get here like how how does the kid that you know just wanted to fit in have the kid just wanted to be loved or good at sports or fill in the blank of all the stuff I wanted that I didn't have when I was younger how did he end up behind bars and not just behind bars but now I'm a convicted felon and I'm 21 years old and the the the way that the path forward from that

was so challenging because I had no I had I didn't have any establishment my life I had 21 jobs that time I was 21 I kid you not I worked at every place imaginable where I live damage relationships

fat 40% body fat you know stuff with my family mental health issues and now on top of that

I'm in jail for a felon so the weight there was on my back to be able to like walk from that moment

“was suffocating it was suffocating you know I think I saw a clip of yours where you talked about”

like the backpack or something like the emotic with like yeah um and it's so true like that's I felt like I was carrying like a 300,000 pound backpack at all times because of all of that weight and what helped it get lighter was every time I did another push up it was a confidence boost some of the weight came off every time I talked to myself in a different way every time I showed up for myself or didn't let certain things get to me that weight sort of you lighter but

I'm gonna backpack still isn't fully empty I be lying I think I think people were like oh my god

like I never struggle with anything I typically don't spend time with them because there's no lack of

awareness of somebody there yeah not my call a person yeah and obviously the backpack is way lighter than it used to be and it doesn't like weigh me down or whatever but it took me a long time for for that weight to come out because I had all of these other problems that went away because fitness was is a great tool and and I think that if you're not careful it can be the only tool you use and then vanity creeps in and then you're like oh my god like

I gained a pound so maybe I'm a loser and then if you're not careful you're kind of in the same trap you were before yeah except an opposite right now you have this weird perfectionist

“complex where you think you have to look a certain way you know I think the thing about fitness”

man you know it changes lives it changes mindset it changes discipline you know it changed your life I really wish more people would get out of their own way and this is kind of the plea to the audience now is if you're sitting there and and you know you need to move your body and you have been so confused because of all the information coming at you on Instagram or the internet just walk just just go for a damn walk and then do it again tomorrow and then as you build your

resilience and exercising add more things you know go to the gym and lift two days a week there's a lot of people they go in there you know Doug and I go okay I got to go five days a week and they they spent zero days a week in there in the last five years well that's going to burn out pretty quickly but the thing that I love fitness so much is not because of the way I feel physically or starting to look physically it's because how it changed my life how it changed my business

how it changed my show how it changed how I perceive myself how it changed how people perceive me like it's not just a vanity or an aesthetic play it is full on development it is hard

“well hundred percent and I'm going to go to a place where I think you appreciate one is with a fitness”

aspect it's like there's all this content and I'm you know I'm guilty of putting out content around this so I am a little bit of like how do you transform your body in a certain amount of time or how do you like master the best level of fitness possible but I will say there's a lot of content within that content or outside of it that shows you the simple steps on how to go from that zero to five in the fitness space it's not you know couch to five k it's couch to like put your shoes on

and then from your shoes on you're going outside then you're walking for five minutes and like oh okay cool this feels good let's do another minute and then like a few weeks later you're now like walking ten minutes a day and you see this in other areas of life I'm sure like yourself I get asked a bunch hey man I'm starting a podcast like what is your advice like what kind of Mike should I get what kind of cameras I'm like bro like why don't you just start with recording an episode like

just start with recording an episode and people like oh my god well what I'm like dude like I'm telling you like you're gonna waste money and I say that because obviously unless you're

I mean don't come into it like that it's a lot of work it's a lot of time it's not just your

passion project especially if you're gonna dump a bunch of money into it that you don't necessarily have upfront there's gonna reach a point where you're like oh this is a lot of work and so it's easier to persevere and get through it when you're like already kind of mastering the art and the conversation you don't have the best camera you don't have the best you know set up necessarily

“but you have the consistency of like starting from zero you know what I mean like and I think”

that that I don't know about you but I mean when people ask me like oh my god like should I get this camera and I'm like dude like I don't even have a camera like that I've been podcasting for six years like why would you get a camera like that you know this is an interesting conversation because like I I want to be I want to be I want to be gentle here but at the same time it happens too much you know it's people see you doing your thing and then they want to reach out

and say they and you don't even know them right and it's like hey can you help me launch my show yes but like most of them want you just to do it and like literally they don't they're not gonna pay you to do it it's a service like launching a podcast to your point dude it is the most down and dirty and gritty freaking thing I've ever done man and I've done some cool things but you know when people come up to me and they over complicate these level five problems

what camera what microphone I go I don't know I go I started my show from an iPhone talking like this and from am I fucking vehicle and I didn't ask anybody for their advice that's the difference it's so true that's the difference we forget the average with so many podcasts end up quitting after um I don't know how many episodes and because they just like they realize how tough it is or they they realize and oh my god like I have seven downloads or whatever an episode

“and they're like oh my god and how do I like how do I move forward and that's why I think it's”

important that if you're gonna do it invest is the least amount of capital that you possibly can so you don't feel terrible if you're showing that gets 10 downloads because it's a good chance unless you already have an existing audience or you have the capital to spend on like marketing or running ads or whatever like it's not gonna it's not gonna be what you think it's gonna be and especially

now there's so much competition out there you know I would never want to steer anyone away from

following their dreams because um that's just not that's not healthy that being said I'm a realist and it's very tough out there there's a lot of competition it's a lot harder to launch a show now than it was 10 years ago because podcasting in YouTube has become the media it's become where news channels, news anchors they report the news everything gets clipped up and that is now on YouTube which used to be you know kind of a different thing years ago what's props to YouTube for

you know owning that owning that a real estate but so you know you want to get into it for the right reasons and just being consistent it's relatable for anything in life everyone's like oh my god I want to get married like okay like why don't you work like fart start on like working on yourself and like becoming the person that someone would want what do want to marry why don't you like start with like not going out partying on the weekends and just going and having coffee

and like you know meeting like real people I don't I may go on and on with these it's a it's a it's a passion of mine like you because I see it so much and I understand it because I was that guy I was the guy that was like oh my gosh like once I get into fitness I want to get these six

pack abs and want to do all this stuff and then I'm going to feel amazing right once I start

a podcast I'm going to blah blah blah and then you realize like oh man this work it's tough I love doing it but it's it's work like it's when you travel for the show it's like people don't realize how expensive it is to film like I was talking to my wife she's like you know why don't you do this as many in-person interviews and I say well if I were to fly somewhere if I were to fly to LA and I would have banked like ten podcasts interviews flight to LA is like you know five to

seven hundred dollars around trip depending on when I do it hotel for you know three or four days it's going to cost me another thousand two thousand dollars running out of studio it's a few hundred dollars per hour then you got to get it edited so all in you're like looking at I don't know like I like like five to seven grand just for that right and making that back in our industry takes some time you know it's not like you're just takes a long time dude yeah so that's the

“time point you know yeah and that's what those are all great points you know I think it all comes”

back to like you said it's with anything in life you're going to do something you better have a strong sense of purpose of why you're doing it it can't be because like then I think I could do

fucking idea to do anything in this industry but if something is fulfilling for you and you know what direction you're going and you know what value you want to bring somebody just lean on that and eventually eventually could be two three or years but people will start to listen you know and they'll see that you've been around for a long time and they'll go and listen to your whole

catalog and then they'll experience your growth real time and then they will never leave you

unless you really piss them off but the bottom line is is like purpose lean on purpose don't

“don't do it for the money well and though this whole follow your passion thing I think I think”

I think if to be passionate about stuff but if it also comes in time you know and I say this because I love sports I suck a golf you know I love basketball I'm not going to play in the NBA I'm passionate about basketball I'm passionate about golf and football even baseball which is your world I'm not playing professional sports so it's like the same thing it's like if I were to try my entire life to play in the NBA I would be broken miserable because just because I was

passionate about it doesn't mean that I would be good I could work I could put but I can't jump I can't

like I don't think I have like those skills like the agility skills I mean could I work on

it's sure but I think that would only get me to it's like so far and I'm also 5859 you know like and being 5859 I'm not being able to jump you know I'm in a lot of trouble you're not spot web right you know it's so funny man like I and I appreciate it you know because it's like you can have passion about something but if it's not in the car it's not your skill set there's people there's many people that are passionate about wanting to have a show but when the camera

flips on and the microphones on they wouldn't be able to do it you know because it's not it's not as

“easy as it looks it is very very difficult you know you have to read energies you have to understand”

where if I ask this question working it take me down the road in 5 10 minutes and you have to know it like that you don't have time to think about it you have to think about it while you're talking and having that that conversation it's a it's a skill set man it's a craft it is it is not easy you better be ready if you're getting into it you know and if we had started this conversation like Doug so happy to have you on I'm like oh thanks man thanks for having me and I'm like at

those who are watching listening on audio I'm like hunched over I got my chin on my fist and I'm I'm sure you've I've had conversations like this that don't enough kit released where it's like I'll do you have had some deities bro oh or it's like oh and it's like super sure it's like dude you could have just told me you don't want to do the show you know and you have to find a way to like navigate through that and I can give it a few minutes big on maybe they're nervous maybe they're shy

then you realize sometimes 20 minutes in you're like oh this person is not wanting to be here right now so you gotta like know when the yeah it's like you know it's like you know a lot of times all you know like it doesn't happen very often anymore but it has and you know it's back when I was

recording at home and things like that I'd be like hold on a second are you good like are you okay

like are you having a bad day not I'm great okay because you're not really giving me much like

“you know if you want to reschedule and do this again we can do that because right now this”

interview is not going to go well because you're not open but I mean it's hard to do that too when you're when you're growing and when you're starting because that takes a lot of confidence to be able to sit there and say hold on a second this interview isn't going this isn't in line with what I thought was going to happen are you okay but we've all had those moments man it's uh you know but when you have someone is excited about being on the show and you have

somebody that's pouring into your audience that's all I care about I just want my audience to feel loved on I want them to feel like they got value out of the conversation I want them to feel like now because if having dug on the show they can move forward in their life and maybe stop smoking weed maybe stop day drinking right maybe get out there and move their body a little bit that's a win to win man yeah I've had some doozy's too where I've had to like send their recorded into like

somebody's team but hey you know I don't think it's a good representation of their brand either and they're like oh my god like yeah please don't run this because yeah there's just one interest or an interest they wish you know and that's a lot of the stuff you don't see behind the scenes of podcasting you know it's just the reality of it but I think the art of podcasting is how do you get somebody to open up and it's also like hey that I asked the right questions could I've done this

better and I also think that yeah providing value was so important like I don't like as much as I love to promote myself and I hope people you know come over to my audience just as well I don't come into it being like oh my god I can't wait to like absorb Sean's audience you know what I mean it's like how can I how can I provide value how can I how can I build a relationship and develop or like

did things more with intention and authenticity I think the world will be a better place

“yeah I think you're right you know a lot of people don't understand that the the”

absorption of somebody else's audience doesn't come from the show it comes from how are you going to interact with them afterwards and what do your people on social see you interacting with them about and they go hmm who's Doug oh shit oh that's yeah he was on Sean show let me go check his out now like which by the way if you're listening you go check his show out right they you know you're you're you're links on everything like your website will be in the show

knows people go there click I encourage you guys to do it I encourage you guys do these at great

guests he and he's just an incredible person so go and support him and listen to his damn show

“damn it listen to it you know I just think that the the but the absorption of multiple audiences”

comes from the interaction after like how much do you still dive in with this person and then your audience sees it and we're like okay well if Sean or Doug is still hanging out with this person then I need to pay closer attention and sometimes it's a it's more of a long tail right it's not immediate he admits the problem with like the book launch is sometimes you get someone

there's no excuse yeah like I mean I I very rarely will be like talk to the person about their

books specific I like them plug it you know of course but I'm like hey you know I want to talk to you about supplements within my audience and um and just to make it so it's not like hey you know this person's only coming on the show to promote their book yeah those are hard dude I mean we've been through it man we've been through it but uh one more question for you man before we uh and the plane here um I would like to know what your official definition of determination is

determination so it's a it's a very thick word right it's long and it's just a lot of depth to it to me determination is making forward progress and effort even when it doesn't make sense to do so even when the validation isn't there even when the money's not there it's when you're determined like you just keep going no matter what when it all costs very good definition man it's not sexy it's not loud it's just sometimes it's putting on your damn shoes and walking

out of the house and getting some fricking sunlight that could be a determined day depending on how you feel emotionally so dude thank you so much for coming on brother I love this conversation super excited to hear the feedback from the lovely audience listening right now but uh dude if there's anything else like to do for you brother you know you just reach out and you know looking forward to continuing to support you and um seeing all the cool things that you're doing man you're a good

dude man I'm proud of you like wise man looking forward to you know continuing to build our relationship too and I appreciate the opportunity this is an awesome combo thanks again that was great man thank you so much for the audience listen go check out my boy Doug his handle will be in the show notes along with his website you'll be able to go and find everything there is to know about his story

“his books how he's helping people but really dive into him because I believe guys if you're”

gonna love my show and you've been listening for so long and you might as well put his in the mix because he's talking about adversity and how it shapes people because it shaped his life he took the most dark time in his life and turn it into something that could build him so again guys share this with somebody you know love and trust and until next time stay determined