♪ Push me, jump mechtin' these in summer ♪
♪ Of course, I'm the Autobahn-raste-chettin'
♪ From her ways and tank andraste ♪
“♪ Roll your own super-same-an-give-oats ♪”
♪ A lacquer-recaribos with pumice ♪ ♪ For no $7, $0.90 ♪ ♪ Yeah, you're right! ♪ ♪ No $7, $0.90 ♪ ♪ There! ♪
♪ Loan-sigh the pauses ♪ ♪ On an antenna in the Autobahn-raste-chettin' ♪ ♪ Info-sortal-name and the rast-chettin' D.E ♪ ♪ Push me, jump mechtin' these in summer ♪ ♪ Of course, I'm the Autobahn-raste-chettin' ♪
♪ From her ways and tank andraste ♪ ♪ Kits eat free! ♪ ♪ Yet, you're right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
“♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪”
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
“♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪”
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
“♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪”
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
“♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪”
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
“♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪”
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
“♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪”
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪ ♪ On your right at nine o'clock in the morning ♪
Well, we're not actually sure if campaign statements are even relevant, and in any case, we're just going to say there is a reasonable non-racial non-religious reason why the president might have done this. Now, of course, they relied on the fact that that was an immigration policy where the president receives additional effort. But I am not at all convinced that they would take even, again,
this specific promise to do the very specific thing that his administration is now trying to do a very specific, unconstitutional reason, seriously and literally, and actually hold him to that, even though they absolutely should. Point taken on the Supreme Court and how corrupt it is and so forth. And we should note here that Lee Ellippman wrote a very good book about that, so check it out, folks.
It's all about the Supreme Court. What's the title again? Lawless. How does the Supreme Court run against conservative grievance, French theories and ad vibes? Well, there you go. That sums it up pretty neatly. I want to ask you though, I've got to think that administration lawyers
would prefer that Trump hadn't said this stuff explicitly, right? Of course, right. They have to be desperately begging the people around him to shut down his phone and tell him to shut the off up because, of course, it's making their jobs that much harder. It's hard to say, well, of course, we should presume that the government is acting normally, you know, there's this presumption of regularity that courts traditionally afford to the federal
government and that administration lawyers will often invoke, but that's just supposed to be a presumption.
“And you should be able to rebut that presumption if you have it in administration and a president,”
just outright saying, of course, we're doing this for unlawful reasons.
Here's what we're doing, right? It's not actually following these processes and procedures.
I just promise to penalize ABC because I didn't like them. One last question about the Supreme Court, I got to think they're going to be a little more sensitive here because it's first amendment and it's broadcast licenses. It's so clear, as opposed to something like TPS, which, you know, the president has a lot of power over immigration and so forth. And it feels to me like the Supreme Court might, let's hope anyway, want to be a little more
solicitous of the first amendment rights of news organizations than they might be in other cases. No? I mean, perhaps, you know, on the other hand, this is a Supreme Court that often protects the first amendment rights of some, but not others. You know, it has said, for example, you know, non-profit corporations, they have a first amendment right not to disclose their donors, in part because when they disclose their donors,
their donors are heavily criticized for contributing to right-wing organizations that are encused of racist homophobic behavior. You know, the court has not, let's say, protected the rights of union organizers to exercise their free speech rights, to actually organize people and register people for unions, even though it's protected the rights of the mega rich to donate near unlimited amounts of money to election. So, yes, in principle, you know, this court does care about the first amendment. In principle, of course, it should care
about news organizations ability to publish material, you know, that they decide to publish their host of right-wing news organizations that publish all sorts of crap that you would hope, right? They would recognize, they don't want to, you know, allow litigation for. And yet, this court has time and time again found a way to be selective in whose rights it's protecting even when it purports to be applying some general principle. The Supreme Court really does like big corporations. Yes, they do.
“And ABC is a big corporation? Yes. So, it has not going for it. I want to try to get it a key thing about Trump's”
corruption here. The open and explicit nature of it really is a critical piece of it in the sense that
Trump wants it known that he will, in fact, use the FCC to bully networks, who's reporting
Just pleases him.
openly because I can. But it's also an explicit signal to many institutions in this country to bend the need to him. He can't let go of the open and explicit nature of this. It's central to his
“whole project. But now, at least to some degree, it's backfire. Can you talk about that?”
Yeah. So, I want to first talk about how it is central to his project and how doing it openly is very much seems to be a feature in their eyes. You know, it's partially a way of normalizing the conduct. If they do it all the time, if it happens all the time, if they flood the zone right with BS, it's harder to stop or challenge any of it. But another important part of it is a signaling. You know, we are talking about, as we said, ABC of big corporation. There aren't
always going to be, you know, big media entities with the resources of ABC that are making
a calculus about whether they canner should publish a story that might upset the administration or the president or someone in his circle. And so, they will look at the kind of retaliatory campaigns that the president is openly engaged in and openly threatening against these companies and have to make a calculus. You know, are we in a position to potentially fight that? You know, if he directed us, if I have saw on, you know, turns it gaze to us and some will make the calculus
of no. So, yes, the openness of this is a big part of the story and also part of the problem. I do hope that it is also part of what allows us to push back against Donald Trump because
“it is much easier. I think to organize opposition when you can point to, look at what he is doing,”
look at what he is saying. Obviously, right, you can't allow a president to do that just imagine how that power could be used. And so, hopefully, right, the openness of it will also make counter-organizing counter-political opposition easier. And hopefully, it will also make legal challenges easier. You know, as we were talking about, because when the president admits he has an unconstitutional motive, that should matter, you know, under the law. It really should. And I think
it is backfiring, at least to that degree. So, I think there's a big question here about whether Trump is succeeding or not in cowing the news media. And there's like a lot of fatalism out there about this. And I get that, right. You look at the Washington Post, what happened there, you look at CBS News, what's happening there. And there's a lot to be kind of despairing about. But I think the story is generally a decent one, though, that aside, because the American news
media is just a really big and sprawling. And it's diffuse. Yeah. And it's robust. It's energetic.
“And I think I'm seeing some of the most aggressive reporting right now on Trump that I've seen”
in, I don't know, in my lifetime. What do you think of that? Well, what's what's your sense? Is he succeeding or is he not succeeding? And where do you think this particular thing is going to go? Look, he's succeeding in some ways. I'm sure there are some stories right, some terms of phrase,
that we are just never going to see because organizations make the calculus that it's not worth it.
On the other hand, you're absolutely right that the American media landscape looks very different than, let's say, the media landscape and hungry, where there are fewer organizations and therefore easier to control and take over. Here, there are some big media institutions, including some like ABC or the New York Times, that have opted to fight back against Trump when he targets them. The New York Times successfully, you know, quashed some subpoenas that had been directed at it.
You know, over it's reporting about the president's use of Kutari force one, you know, the jet gifted to him. And there are also a bunch of independent media organizations that, you know, have been kind of more faithful in a lot of ways to the aggressive reporting even earlier in the administration. So I think that the media landscape is, you know, concerning in some respects, obviously the consolidation of several big, you know, media entities into the hands of some
Trump supporters is not a good development, you know, for democracy, but it's not maybe quite as dire, you know, as people might think, at least if you are conscientious enough to ensure you are getting a media diet, you know, that includes a lot of independent media and media that hasn't been taken over by Trump out this. And where do you think this is going to go with ABC? What's your gut tell you? I think ABC will be able to push back the threats against its licenses, I just do.
And what will that look like, basically? I think either the administration will fold, you know,
if ABC, for example, gets a favorable court hearing, right, or some initially favorable judicial decision, or they will get a favorable judicial decision and the Trump administration will opt not to appeal it because they just don't think it's one of their better cases. And there have been lots of examples where they have elected not to appeal unfavorable lower court rulings. So even though they've had a bunch of success in the Supreme Court, they haven't taken all of the
Cases, they have lost in the lower courts to the Supreme Court.
this episode results. And if that happens, which I think it will, as well, it will be a huge deal,
“not least, because Trump himself keeps drawing attention to his own corrupt motives.”
Leo Littman, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for coming on. That was great stuff.
Thanks for having me.
