This is an eye-hop podcast, guaranteed human.
It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag. Whoever you root for. Why do I wash the world up? That's like asking me, "Why do I breed?" And it's beautiful.
The guys are young and cute and fit. It's not, yes, I mean, it's your culture. I think watching it was my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernando Chavari and this is American Football.
I show about soccer culture in the U.S. and it's underdog roots. Listen to American football on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
“Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now.”
There's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, How to Copy. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting and moving on-air chats.
Listen to Joy 101 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy 101 with How to Copy is presented by CVS. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me.
Evil wake up! I'm the one that saw the murder. Take place by dream at Indepipo.
“Anthony DiPipo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum.”
I said I'm not guilty, I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarre in the bone valley feed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi listeners, I'm Michelle, host of the Kingdom of Fraud podcast. It's the story of a devote polygamist from Utah, a fearsome Armenian businessman in LA,
and they are one billion dollar fraud conspiracy.
I'm excited to share the story with you. And want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of Kingdom of Fraud 100% ad-free when an iHeart True Prime Plus subscription. Available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Kingdom of Fraud one week ahead of everyone else.
Available only to iHeart True Prime Plus subscribers. So don't wait, head to Apple Podcasts search for iHeart True Prime Plus and subscribe today. I actually dropped better when I'm high, it heightens my senses, it calms me down.
“If anything, I'm more careful. Honestly, it just helps me focus.”
That's probably what the driver who killed a four-year-old told himself, and now he's in prison. You see, no matter what you tell yourself, if you feel different, you drive different. So if you're high, just don't drive. Brought to you by Nitsa in the ad-council. Naval.
Before we dive in, I wanted to give you a quick note that today's episode includes discussions of sexual violence. We don't want to catch anyone off guard. That said, there's also so much beauty in this story. Moments were women from completely different worlds, find connection.
Those parts obviously gave me goosebumps, but I want you to take care of yourself first.
If this topic isn't right for you today, we totally understand. Our feed is full of other stories waiting for your ears. It was boiling hot some a day in August, like hot. We were outside at a table and we were kind of being sat there. I was wearing a blue dress and we were just sat there having a coffee. There's one type of story that I don't think gets enough airtime, and that's the friendship
meet-cute. The unusual chance encounter is someone that makes you go, "Oh, I want to be your friend so bad. It's hard-making friends as an adult, but those friendships can end up being as much of a soul connection as any romantic love." Right from the beginning got odd, like so close, you know. Layla has lots of friends, great friends, but their ability to truly understand
her life always comes to an abrupt halt when she tells them where she came from.
You see, Layla's life began during the Bosnia and War.
comprehend. For years, she's carried the weight of an identity that she felt no one could understand. For a really long time I was very isolated from that point of view. You have an understanding of your identity, but you're not sure how you feel about your identity is fundamentally the challenge, until one summer's day in Bosnia when Layla met a kindred spirit. She shared her story I shared mine. It is truly amazing. It was nice to be able to explore
all the different emotions with someone else that has it also experienced those emotions. This is a story about how being seen by a friend, someone who truly gets it, can completely
“change your life. That's what happened for Layla and Ina. They recognized each other in a way”
that no one else could. And in doing so, Ina helped Layla come face to face with her Bosnia
roots and gives her a homecoming she could never have imagined.
Ina's in field and from the teams at Novel and I Heart Podcasts. This is the girlfriend Spotlight where we tell stories of women winning. Today, Layla becomes visible. Layla Damon was in the spotlight from day one. Layla was born in the Bosnian capital, Sarajevo in 1992. It was a city under siege. The Bosnian war was raging and
“subforces surrounded Sarajevo. For nearly four years, it's people endured daily”
shelling and sniper attacks cut off from the rest of the world. The violence was so horrific that it's hard to even imagine. More than 11,000 people were killed. One thousand six hundred of them were children. I was born on Christmas Day in 1992 in the main hospital in Sarajevo Bosnia. The maternity hospital was bombed fairly early on during the war and my biological mother had experienced sexual violence in the lead up to my birth. So I was a child born out of sexual
violence and she had experienced sexual violence throughout her pregnancy until she was so heavily
pregnant that they let her go. By this point, ultimately sexual violence was being used as a weapon
of war in Bosnia and that was a tactic of the army to dehumanize and humiliate the civilian population as well as creating this kind of next generation of children born out of stigma. Sexual violence as a weapon of war was used systematically as a tool of genocide during the Bosnian War. Layla's birth mother, a Bosnian Muslim, was held in a concentration camp by the Serb army and repeatedly raped by soldiers. Around this time, word of Sarajevo's devastating situation
“was breaking through to the rest of the world. And this is where another crucial part of Layla's”
story unfolds. A husband and wife journalist Yuo had made their way into the city. They were covering the conflict for sky news documenting what happened on the ground. So they'd been in Bosnia pretty much the whole time since the war broke out. Their fixer had come across my story as a child born on Christmas Day. Then being journalists, this was a story and they went to the hospital where I was born to interview my biological mother and understand her story. They wanted to raise
the awareness around the sexual violence that had been occurring in Bosnia but also now
the second element of a generation being born out of sexual violence. They interviewed my biological
mother and they heard what she had to say which was ultimately that I would very much in her eyes grow up to be like the men that committed that sexual violence towards her and her at very extreme feelings towards me. Which was ultimately that she didn't want anything to do with me, you know, if she held me that she had strangled me. Layla, the baby born on Christmas Day, was destined for an orphanage. Then being journalists, they're documented the orphanages and how little they had to go and live on.
Burning furniture to keep warm and so on. They knew what my outcome would be and they ultimately
Wanted to make a difference and make a change.
mother's consent in adopting me and then they started the process of smuggling me out with Bosnia. Yeah, I mean I can imagine kind of being that close to the reporting and then having this very real case in front of you of like this is about to happen to this. Yeah. You just feel like your hands were tied. Yeah. I can't imagine walking out of that hospital without you and my arms. Yeah. Layla's adoptive parents, the journalist she now simply calls her parents,
smuggled her first to hungry and then to the UK and that's where they made the adoption official. Layla went on to spend her childhood in North London which is an area that I also know pretty well. So I grew up literally, you know, with the reservoirs and the happening bagel, wow. Like, oh my god, love that bagel place. It's actually open until 12. Like, you know, it was one of those things that when my parents used to drop me off at school they'd
get me a bagel and then as I got older and I used to go out in Camden, then I'd get a bagel on the way home after an eye out. It was just happy days. The best feeling. That was a fine bagel. My god. As a kid, Layla didn't know about her origins. But looking back, there was the clue in her name. It spelled in the Bosnian way. L-E-J-L-A. When you grow up in the UK, everyone in North London
pulls me ledschla. Everyone. Ledschla. Ledschla. That's it. Like, and you can always know
when your name's coming in the register, someone will pause before they start trying to pronounce it. At the time I wasn't absolutely, I didn't love it. It wasn't until Layla turned seven
“that she started to ask questions. I particularly remember it because in school we were in IT,”
you know how you can go back where the time is on the bottom right hand side of your computer. You can scroll back to like the calendar and see what day you were born on. So I can scroll way back to 1992 and that's when I found out that it was born on the Friday. I would distinctly remember the other kids talking about what time they were born and all of those kinds of things that their parents may have told them. And that day I went home and asked my mum, you know what time was I born?
I was born on a Friday. All of these kinds of little bits and that was when she kind of sat me down and said, "You're adopted. Your biological mother couldn't look after you because there was a war
going on." I do remember distinctly. Layla, you feel different. First, he had never heard of Bosnia.
Secondly, I had to go into school the next day and so that I was adopted. It's school. There's that kind of pang of just wanting to fit in. So finding out this information was sometimes I'm not sure what the I don't think there's any best way or best time or anything like that but looking back
“it was the appropriate time and the best way. For years, Layla only knew the simple version of how”
she came into this world that there was a war. Her mother couldn't raise her and she was adopted. But everything changed when she turned 18. Her parents felt it was finally time for her to know her whole story. So one day, they gathered in a living room for a conversation that would completely reshape her understanding of who she was. I remember both my parents sat opposite on the other side so there were two sofas parallel to each other. I was on one, they were on the other.
Tulsi lens, blue sofas really wide and then they had this almost file of papers and they said, you know, we've got these documents, these are from your adoption process here in the UK,
“your biological mother experience sexual violence and that's how you were born. But finding that out”
must have been really, I imagine it was really destabilizing. Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, teenage years anyway, I would hate horrendously challenging and just so awkward the crippling desire to fit in is also painful and biggest way that then finding this element out. It was a challenge,
you know, I had great friends, I've always had great friends, but they don't have this kind of war
background. And so it's that interesting dynamic of really trying to grow up and fit in desperately,
Also then finding out more about yourself that puts you really further away f...
peer set. The bombshell truth about her origins hit Laila pretty hard, suddenly questioning
everything about herself and eager for answers. So she did what many of us would do. She googled it. There was not much at all at that point. There was some information on children born out sexual violence post World War II, so you could read some testimonies and things like that. But if you typed in children born out sexual violence of the Bosnian War, there was maybe on one research paper
“it was noted, but marginally. So therefore for a long time, I think the challenge was that sense”
of belonging. I was like, there is genuinely no one really I can talk to about, you know,
is badness hereditary. Is there something about me? Do I need to, how do I, yeah, like there was just
no, and everyone's like a bit like, you know, don't know what to say. Like my friends are ace, right? But what are they supposed to say? For a really long time, I was very isolated from that point of view. With all these questions swirling in her mind, where do I fit in? Who am I? She felt alone and invisible. Like she was the only person in this world who was born this way. After the break, Laila searches for others who might understand her unique background,
“a journey that eventually leads her all the way back to Bosnia.”
In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me.
That was your first murric case. It's fair to say this was the biggest case here, career. Yes, sir.
Right, the murder of a chunk is probably a whole challenge. The battles it gets. I would think so. People wake up and the woman saw the murder, take place by crevents and the people. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. Listen to the devil's quarry on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the devil's quarry add free with exclusive content, subscribe to love a
for good plus on Apple Podcasts. I love the sounds. The buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans,
“the announcers calling the place soccer, football, at home. Why do I wish to walk up?”
That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I think watching it was my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernando Chavari and this is American football. I show about soccer culture in the U.S. and it's under dog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head,
which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones I don't like? I actually don't. Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the men's world cup this summer, listen to American football as part of the Michael Thuara podcast network, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Katt, the host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kattbe,
together. We're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Mann shared how she overcame fierce health challenges, I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand post-barned depression. I was not prepared for post-barning society. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kattbe
on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about in the news, body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into
The forensics.
network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening.
“Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is,”
getting a racist stat to remove. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. As long as there's a politics of race in America, there's going to be a politics of remembering the civil war. To get to school i had to go down robbery Lee Boulevard. Get to the grocery store i had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway. If you're in a store in and you leave out half of what the history is, you're not turning a job.
I'm a Keela Hughes, in rebel spirits season two goes deep on both of those things. The fights, the politics, the people who won, and my personal campaign to add something to the Kentucky State House that's actually worth the wall space. We are more than our bodies. We contain essence.
“We contain spirit. How do you represent that? They are just purely a fire that is really catching.”
You'll see what I mean. Listen to rebel spirits season two on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 19-year-old Layler is in the middle of an identity crisis, having just found out the devastating full story of her birth. On top of the usual pangs of teenage angst and insecurities, it would be a lot for most people to handle. But Layler is resourceful, and resilient,
and she's determined to find some answers. I basically try to find NGOs that worked in
Bosnia during the Bosnia Immort, and then it really, whether it's like you believe in signs or these things, there was a post where they were looking for volunteers. The only experience that you needed was to either be first generation or second generation. Youth between the ages of 18 to 25, with some related conflict background. No, well, this is perfect. Because again, going back to that sense of belonging had great friends, but didn't have anywhere, I could kind of talk about
war or explore this. This was the first time in which I met other gun people that had a conflict related background. You know, I could relate. There were synergies, but also you can talk about things that are hard topics without people being like, "This isn't really my area." The charity
Layler found is called War Child. It's an incredible organization that helps kids affected by war.
They make sure that these children are safe, get an education, and most importantly, have a chance to just be kids again. They build schools, provide therapy, and help families rebuild their lives in places like Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, and Uganda. Basically, wherever children are caught up in the crossfire and desperately need support. For Layler, volunteering with them was a chance to meet other young people who have been impacted by war. Now, obviously, my parents had forewarned
me that once you come out with it, you know, about being a child born out of sexual violence.
“You can't put the genie back in the bottle. You have to know that this is something that you wanted”
to do, but it was something that I wanted to do. It actually was speaking about my story
has always felt cathartic, not all the time in terms of sometimes it has depleted me rather than
filled me back up, but in most even then, starting to talk about it, and in the hope trying to find other children born out of sexual violence in which I can communicate with them, that was important. So I found that really useful. For me, it was a great sense of community and so on. There's actually a term that sometimes used for children born out of sexual violence in war, and it's invisible children, not because there's not a lot of information about
them, although that definitely was the case when Layler started searching, but because of the stigma and rejection that surrounds them. They're often seen as symbols of the enemy, and socially excluded, hence invisible. But Layler was determined to find others, and so continued sharing her story openly, even when she got to university. I made really good friends with a girl called Hannah who she was studying film. I told her my story, and she was like, wow, this is crazy, this
unbelievable. We should try and go find your birth mum, and I was like, yeah, sounds great. You know, like, sure, we have many ideas, you know, this is just one of those many great ideas for having, but this one did actually come to fruition. And it was a pretty wild idea to track down Layler's
Birth mum for her friend's documentary film project.
Layler's biological mum, was from that interview they shot with her all those years ago back in
“Sarajevo. The first time I ever watched it was with my dad, for that documentary when I was 19,”
in like a studio in our university. Oh my god, so my dad had bought it on beta camp, played it
to me, and that was the first time I sat next to him and watched it, and I could see my best friend
behind as she was filming on. And as I'm listening to what my biological mother saying about me and how she didn't want to hold me because she would strangle me. I can see my best friend opposite me, and her eyes just slightly widening. Ultimately, the words do hurt, but the words remind us of the impact that sexual violence has and conflict related sexual violence has. Like that, that is it. And ultimately, although she may have given me up for adoption, because she didn't
want to see me and she didn't want anything to do with me, her sacrifice of giving me up for adoption
“has given me the life that I have today. So it's given me incredible privilege and so much love.”
So it's one of them. Wow, how did you react in that moment? I just hold onto my dad and because
he ends with saying this child will probably end up going to one of the orphanages like all the other children. And then my dad says she didn't go to the orphanages. She turned into you wonderful thing. I saw the clip of the documentary where we see Layla watching the news report from Christmas Day of 1992. Her birth mother has filmed so that you can only see the back of her head and her hand sort of gesturing. She's speaking in Bosnian, but you can understand it because she's
being dubbed in English. And Layla is fixated on the screen sitting next to her dad. And he does a
really amazing job of just being there for her. But it's pretty chilling when you hear the words,
"I don't want to see that baby because if I did, I would strangle her." When you're watching it, you see this jolt of sudden emotion hit Layla's face. And watching it, I admit I did the same thing because that's a really, really tough thing for anyone to hear. Having seen that video and heard her birth mom's voice for the first time, Layla had even more questions than before. She was determined to go to Bosnian on this project. It was a shot in the dark for sure, but it was also her
only shot at getting answers. Prior to going to Bosnian, we went to the Bosnian embassy in the UK. And I have my biological mother's name on my best certificate, so I asked them if they could find her or support me in the journey of trying to find her. They said yes, they'll help, but I need to kind of manage my own expectations. She might not be alive. She might not want to be far on change in name, so on and so forth. But we anyway went to Bosnian. We went back to the hospital
where I was born. And the press officer showed us around. And then there was a nurse there who was one of the nurses that was there originally and knew about my story. I was like, "You've come back."
“I can't believe you've come back. There are so many people here that kind of remember my story”
or remember my parents. And that felt really nice. That felt like I was already starting to have a connection to Bosnian beyond just kind of holidays. How did you feel making that choice to try and find your biological mother? I mean, from the way you've described it, it seems like it was quite a casual in to that thing, but it's quite a big process. I suppose it's because I didn't think I'd find her. Initially, yes, it felt casual because also I really was very conscious that
I wasn't sure that she was wanted to be found and I also wasn't sure that she was alive either. Yeah. Well, I guess, yeah, you had to prepare yourself for potential disappointment, for a lot of different variables. Yeah. She didn't find her birth mum nor did she find anyone else who truly understood her background. And so, when she returned home, she was, again, alone. That all changed when war child, the charity she had been volunteering with, connected her with someone who had
transformed her life. After leaving Bosnia without the answers she had hoped for, she returned once more, not to find her mother, but to me, Ina. I met Ina through a researcher called Amra Delitch. Ina is Bosnian. Like Laila, she was also born out of sexual violence during the Bosnian war, and like Laila, she found out the full story of her birth when she was a teenager.
Ina grew up in Bosnia and still lived in Sarajevo.
It was boiling hot some day in August, like hot. We were outside at a table, and I remember being sat there, I was wearing a blue dress, Ina was in a white t-shirt and shorts, and we were just sat there
“having a coffee. And, you know, here's what I've been doing in the UK. Do you know any other children?”
There's got to be more children than just me and you. But, you know, is there a kind of wide
degree? So, you know, she shared her story, I shared mine. It's truly amazing. And, yeah, and we just
right from the beginning, God, like so close, it was nice to be able to explore all the different emotions that you can feel as a child born out of sexual violence, but someone else that has it also experienced those emotions. Yeah, so many things you don't have to explain. Yeah, exactly, it's that. It's exactly that. When you've been through something unusual, you're almost on high alert every time you meet someone new, thinking, "When are they going to ask me this?"
“Because then, I'm naturally going to have to explain that. That's been Layla's entire life,”
but here with Ina, that guard is down. No explanations needed. No batting off well-meaning, but slightly silencing, I'm sorry. No having to explain the entire political and social and ethical backstory of the Bosnian War. Ina gets it, and Layla gets Ina. Layla is no longer invisible, and with this
feeling of invisibility shattered, she can finally get some answers. After the break, Layla
gets some unexpected news from the Bosnian Embassy. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. That was your first murder case. Yes, sure. It's fair to say this was the biggest case here, career. Yes, sir. Right the murder of a child is probably more child. Bows it gets. I would think so.
Anthony DiPipo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to
the maximum. I said I'm not guilty, I'll take it to the grave.
Listen to the devil's quarry on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the devil's quarry add free with exclusive content, subscribe to Love of For Good Plus on Apple podcasts. I love the sounds. The buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place soccer, football. It's home. Why do I watch the work up? That's like asking me,
“why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I think watching it with my dad.”
It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari and this is American Football. I show about soccer culture in the U.S. and it's under dog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilian still like hearing that though. Are they the only ones I don't like?
As we get ready for the men's world cup this summer, listen to American football as part of the Michael Thuara podcast network available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hota-Katby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hota-Katby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Mann shared how she overcame fierce health challenges, I've gone through
breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand post-parnaid depression. I was not prepared for post-parnaid anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hota-Katby on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind
These cases that we hear about in the news, body bags is where you need to turn.
fluff we do a deep dive into the forensics. Listen to body bags with Joseph Scott Morian on America's
“#1 podcast network. IHeart open your free iHeart app and search body bags with Joseph Scott Morian”
and start listening. Mainstream media is full of cruel depictions of the unhoused stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a monolith. We the unhoused is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host and for years I've created a space where the unhoused and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed on-house parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers, veterans, LGBQTIA plus community and the policy
makers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. We the unhoused is a two-time webbie and signal award winning show with many exciting guests on the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Jill Wichor, a street doctor, turned in slow answer, who's worked with the unhoused community as made a huge impact online and in her community. Listen to We the Unhoused on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your
“part get it. When Layla got back from Bosnia, things felt a little flat. I think I must have”
got a letter about eight months later and it basically was from the Bosnia University saying hey just want to let you know we've identified and located your birth mom we sent a police officer around. They have confirmed that it is your birth mom here is her phone number and address and please feel free to contact her. And ultimately I don't speak Bosnia and I wasn't ever just gonna call. The first amount of conversation that needs to be had, it needs to be thought through. So it was
always gonna be through letters and then that way I could describe what I was up to and
just go through that whole process and she also then has the time to respond she is the opportunity to not respond feels a little bit more consensual for the both of us in terms of what thinking and having that space to digest as well. So Layla initiated contacts by sending letters. First she would write the letters in English and then she would get them translated to Bosnia and send both copies. The letter contacts very much talking about what I was studying it
uni and what my interests are and so on. And obviously I can imagine your first letter you'd send it with a this has been my life you know. I'd love to meet up with you but I'm getting the response from her. I guess you didn't know if it was gonna be positive or yes and it was positive. It was was so glad that you have this life say thank you to your parents and it was very positive and then she spoke about where she's living, who she's living, you know what her life looks like.
So there was this kind of exchange of his where I am and his where you are and because you
“have to start from the beginning you know. Yeah. This was huge for Layla. Remember the only”
words she'd ever heard from her mother were those devastating ones from that 1992 video clip. Now getting this positive response it was everything. Layla shared this news with Ina. The only person that she really felt could understand what she was going through.
I said to Ina you know I know where my birth mom is and she basically said would you like to
meet your birth mom and I was like yes I would. I would like to meet her. By this point it would had quite I want to say at least a year or two years of less contact and so Ina said she'd go and meet my birth mom for me because she'd already met me so she could vouch on my behalf to say Layla would like to meet you. I've met her is quite a big ask so it's not something that you just want to be asking yeah through long-form medium and Ina went to go and meet her and Ina showed
her pictures of me and she said yes. Layla was delighted. Her mom wanted to meet her but there was one big practical obstacle she needed an interpreter and not just any interpreter. This was a really emotional potentially triggering incredibly sensitive situation that needed someone who could truly
Grasp what was at stake and that's when Ina stepped up to be that person the ...
Layla and her birth mother. Layla along with her parents flew to Bosnia for that life-changing first meeting.
The first meeting with my mom I said it Ina's the night before I wore a Zara cohort navy blue
“trouser and T-shirt with Adidas trainers and I I remember it so clearly because I wasn't short”
where it was really good. What do you want me to do about it? It's just it's just not so I wasn't sure to have changed outfits many times. I know it's nervous I could tell she was nervous because ultimately she could understand how I was feeling as a child born out of sexual violence but also knowing how hard it must be for my birth mum. It wasn't tension in a negative way but let's say everyone was holding something. My parents bought flowers I'd got flowers my mum had taken pictures of how
I was when I was like a kid so she could show and then we went up to the top floor of this very long apartment building so right at the top the lift was very slow and I would distinctly remember
ultimately getting to the door and everyone was taking their shoes off to go in and Ina went in
first and then my parents followed and then I was the last one to go in. My mum hugged my biological mum, my dad hugged my biological mum and then I seen my biological mum and we were sat there and they went up to her and they gave her a hug and then we started crying and then there was more hugging and just holding and then we pulled away and then we went and kind of sat down in the living room. There were two sofas so my parents sat on one, I sat next to Ina and we just had a lot of coffee
and a lot of cake and a lot of chatting and it went it went well but it didn't feel like
“quite I remember definitely feeling quite anxious through a hug the whole thing. I think that's”
understandable like it was lovely and I really hope ultimately the relationship that I still have and now have with my birth mum gives us both a sense of peace and healing in terms of that continued respect, love and gratitude for the decisions that were made. Yeah. And it's amazing and how's your relationship with Bosnia itself changed since kind of meeting your birth mother? Yeah it's so different like I'm so grateful to have a relationship with Bosnia as a country but also because of
the healing that has come from that girl that I described as being isolated I feel less isolated
and more connected. Yeah it sounds like you never fully disconnected from Bosnia. No and I think
a lot of people would understand if after meeting your birth mum obviously kind of going over to Bosnia fair amount if you decided that that circle had been closed and you moved on but you've been doing
“way more activism since right? I think for me ultimately what the aim is and the goal is is that”
firstly I don't want any other children born out sexual violence to feel completely isolated and letting also children born out sexual violence have educational barriers barriers to identification cards barriers and stigmatization so for countries that are going and experiencing war like Ukraine for instance how can we or is he look at policies laws and practices to try and look at where post conflict when the conflict doesn't you know how do we support those children
born out sexual violence because I think that's the thing that we can do practically you know there is still days in which you don't feel great about yourself or there's still things that you feel ashamed of or there's still things that you're working through that just doesn't finish because also it's still a topic that people don't feel comfortable talking about. There's still a major taboo over it so those children do become invisible yeah how do we help future children born out
sexual violence so they don't have that I'm going to Google children born out sexual violence and find nothing. Laila has taken the silence, the stigma and the invisibility of her story and created real
Change she's not just advocating for recognition but rather she's actively sh...
and demanding that these children some of whom are now adults are seen heard and supported
“and that's the real impact. Laila and Ina are fighting to give a voice to children like them”
proving that your history even from the darkest points doesn't define you and their advocacy and raising awareness around this topic has actually started to pay off for the first time in 2023 discussions of children born of sexual violence during war was a specific agenda point on the US Institute of Peace Summit in Washington. They're the small winds right before it was not talked about and finally there was a whole panel discussion on children born out of sexual violence and
you're like yes because we're creating dialogue even though people don't have all the answers we're not going to solve everything but that was a huge moment progress is slow so societal change is slow we keep moving forward because it is a hundred percent writing to do it is a hundred percent needed and then ultimately when me Ina and all children born out sexual violence from Bosnia one the Oslo human rights warded that was huge that was really I remember Ina telling me
and then I just burst into tears a sex actually and now I just burst into tears and I was like oh wow and what it is is it's the feeling of being seen which is phenomenal
finally being seen after so long it's such a powerful thing and especially for children
“that are defined as invisible it feels like that's what's so much of this story boils down to”
isn't it it's like being seen and being seen by each other as well finding the community yeah and so therefore seeing yourself seeing yourself working on loving yourself like working on all of these things that you know regardless of your history heritage or background it's not exactly easy but feeling seen having a sense of belonging you know all of it but I have had incredible amounts of love and fully aware of that and I'm very lucky and grateful
we all need to be seen and see ourselves reflected in the world around us it doesn't have to be in some big way like this story last night my best mate of 25 years said to me over dinner
oh but you've always been like that and it was enough to remind me that I'm not going mad
and I slept better last night for it but Laila and Ina story also proves just how much two friends with a shared mission can do back in 2018 Ina started an organization called the forgotten children of war that focuses on securing legal and social recognition for children born out of war as for Laila she's the trustee of Grace International the charity based in the UK that promotes long-term reconciliation and advocacy for children born out of war as well the two of them
continue to work side by side fighting for justice and visibility what began as two women connecting on a hot summer's day in Bosnia has blossomed into a formidable alliance they're spreading the comfort they're found in each other across the globe helping others feel less alone because there's
“a couple of girlfriends out there rooting for them and honestly if that's not what this podcast is”
about then I don't know what is
if you've enjoyed this conversation you can find loads more incredible women on our feet
do check them out and please do spread the word and tell your friends about us we want as many people as possible to be part of the girlfriend's gang next time on the girlfriend's spotlight the Rosamund please the air the coroner was very clear if it wasn't for the air around Louisia where Laila led you're only would she not have got asthma but she wouldn't have died on that fatal night
this season we're supporting the charity woman kind worldwide they do amazing work to help women's rights organizations and movements to strengthen and grow if you'd like to find out more or donate to help them secure equal rights for women and girls across the globe you can go to womenkind.org.uk the girlfriend's spotlight is produced by novel for iHeart Podcasts for more from novel visit novel dot
Audio the show is hosted by me Anna Sinfield this episode was written and pro...
our assistant producer is Lucy Carr our researcher is Zeyana Usuf the editor is Hannah Marshall
“Max O'Brien and Craig Stracken are our executive producers production management from Joe”
Savage Shree Houston and Charlotte Wolf sound design mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson music supervision by Jacob Tyvich Nicholas Alexander and Anna Sinfield original music composed by Louise Agarstein and Gemma Freeman the series artwork was designed by Christina Lemcool will add foxton is creative director of development and special thanks to Katrina Norville, Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson at iHeart Podcasts as well as Carly Frankle
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i actually dropped better one of my it heightens my senses
“comes me down if anything i'm more careful honestly it just helps me focus”
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