Jefferson Fisher Takes YOUR Calls | Ask Me Anything

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Now in your filial. Adi, utis filal. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast. Today, I'm going to be going through some questions and answers from people who've left voicemails,

which I'm very excited to listen.

I have not heard these before, so what you're about to hear is raw real and totally genuine. If you would like to leave a voicemail, then down in the description or the show notes, you'll see the website where you can call in, leave a voicemail, and get your question answered as well. You ready? I'm ready.

Hey, Jefferson, Jodie Perkins, now Jodie Woodard. My husband is one that's not too expressive in his feelings, and I would love to be able to initiate conversations that establish a safe environment for him to do that freely. My question would be, how would I start a conversation or initiate it with him with the intentions

“of evoking his true feelings, while creating or letting him know it's safe for him to do that?”

Thank you very much, and I'll keep watching your podcast because you may have already answered that one more. Thanks, Jodie. That is a more common issue than you think, Jodie, where you have a spouse who has a very hard time expressing emotion. Sometimes Jodie, I have that same problem.

I don't want you to think that lack of an emotional response is lack of feeling emotion. Because there is one thing to feel it, there is another thing of emoting it. So a lot of the times, like I can tell you from things in my childhood of how I've been raised from my parents to other family members, there is this, what I can tell you. That's what I call static mode.

When there is some kind of conflict, there is usually somebody within the relationship that can go static, meaning they kind of get gripped by their emotions, they have a hard time expressing them, sifting them, sorting them, maybe they can't name them, maybe they have something within them that is very hard. That is also people who have what they call reduced affectivity, meaning if that is a

bell curve, that the extremes are going to cut off. They have a hard time feeling sadness and they have a hard time feeling extreme joy. So they are right there kind of within that middle of ways to work around that. I don't know where your husband falls within that bell curve, but what I can tell you is, I'm confident that he feels something and the issue is he's not expressing that emotion

and I hear you being a wonderful spouse and saying, hey, what are some things that I can

“do to create that safe space to make and feel that this is some emotion to try out?”

Here's what I would encourage you, one, have a conversation of whether or not he be willing

to engage in increasing his emotional vocabulary. Meaning we generally go towards and we're never taught that there is more emotions than sad, angry, tired, grumpy, frustrated. There's all this spectrum of emotional nuance to describe emotion that we aren't using. To understand that I'm actually feeling kind of dismissed, I'm feeling kind of defeated.

I'm feeling off and I can't seem to place, maybe I'm a finger on it, but I know I'm generally in this area and so what, how do you do that? There's tons of resources online for ways to develop. They also have like an emotion, emotion wheel where you're able to pinpoint different emotions to help express that more.

I would encourage that not just something he does, but something the both of you do. So it doesn't mean in trying and pinpoint that he's some problem that you're trying to fix.

“You don't want to be able to do it to where he's the project that you have to work on.”

That's going to make him feel more emotion and I have no clue if what he's feeling is tied up in some type of shame. If it has something to do with his childhood, most likely I'd say it definitely has something to do with his childhood as a lot of emotional triggers and feelings are and how to develop

So my hope right now is giving you that it doesn't mean that it emotions aren't there.

“It means they just need to be developed more.”

So having increasing emotional capacity for that vocabulary is going to help number two, I would encourage you rather than saying things that criticize him for not expressing his emotions. I would encourage you to use open-ended phrases that would help him kind of go on this fact-finding mission of what exactly he is feeling. A phrase that we like to use and a phrase that I love to give people is this question.

What's coming up for you? What's coming up for you? It's a very nonchalant, non-offensive, non-defensive way of saying what's happening inside of you. Right now. And I would even say some baby steps to take is see if he can even begin to express the feeling

without trying to tie it to emoting it.

So if he was able to say I'm feeling sad right now, even though his face doesn't say sad or if he's feeling angry right now and he's not able to express that anger, just saying it is at least giving you more of an idea and comfort because it's actually comforting and knowing that they are sharing this feeling they're just having a hard time expressing it.

Maybe I would encourage you to take it slow, emotions are not things that can just be turned on like a switch as much as we would like them to be. And so how do you do that? Some with a lot of patience in knowing that it's going to have to be developed. If there were other questions that I could give you other than what's coming up for you,

it would be what emotion can I best help you with or are you feeling emotions right now? Is there something that you are feeling? And if you're not able to name it, it's kind of this.

“You have to take it baby steps and if you're not able to name it, we try to go even”

deeper. Maybe it's something that's written down. Maybe it's something that it's the two of you are together with maybe a couple's counselor and you're able to say okay, these are some, this is a muscle that we're trying to work together.

There's not going to be phrases I can give you that's automatically going to make him show more emotion. That's not going to happen like that. My phrases are something that I can give you hope in and knowing that it will happen. It's something that has to have a lot of patience and a lot of, I just don't want you

to lose hope. That's the biggest thing. It's a, it's I don't want you to, to lose hope. And so where you find that piece of, how can I be a safe place for him? Don't criticize it when you're not seeing it.

So I want to be very careful with that criticism element that you might be tempted to go into when you don't feel like he's meeting you in that emotion. There's a difference between wanting to and being able to. And so it might not be that he doesn't want to feel that way. He doesn't want to feel like he can't show that kind of emotion.

He really wishes he could, but he has having trouble doing it. That is usually a problem that happened long before he ever met you. And so we're all coming into the relationships at different levels. And so this is where, this is where he's at. So how do you be a safe space?

It's the same way of when my son or daughter come to me with things. If I were to yell at them for saying that they did something wrong, well, all I'm teaching them is that I'm not a safe place to come to again.

And that's never something that I want.

So if he is approaching you, even with the smallest level of emotion, I want you to, if it makes sense, I'm not trying to push you into something that doesn't feel comfortable to you. I want you to encourage you to use words of gratitude, like thank you for coming to me with this.

I can imagine that felt really big, or you know I can imagine that that feels really hard to express and I appreciate the effort that you've put into this. So that's the biggest thing is to acknowledge, even when it's a very small feeling, to you, it might be the most minor thing, is to acknowledge and affirm the emotion that is being expressed.

“And I think that's a way of showing that you can be a safe space for even more.”

Great question. Okay. Hi, my name is Katherine, and I live in Lisbon, Ohio. My question is when you ask someone to forgive you for something that you've done, whether you did it intentionally or not, is irrelevant, but their response to you is, "No, I will

not forgive you. I'm going to let by a God and say, "Buy God." So my question is, how do you continue a relationship with someone after they give you that type of response?

yes, it's really possible to continue a relationship when they're kind of carrying that

“around with them, but try to get off the hook by just saying, "Let's let by God and be”

by God." I'm wondering how you would handle something like that. Thank you, much. Bye. Hmm.

Katherine, thank you for sharing that. That can be really hurtful when you apologize for something and seek forgiveness and that forgiveness is refused.

One, I have a big problem with that because, you know, you can't expect to receive forgiveness

if you don't give forgiveness, and that's going to be up to that other person.

“There's no words I can give you, Katherine, that's going to make them say, "Yes, I forgive”

you." That's the thing I want to stick in your heart. Number one, apologies, while they are for the other person, that it is more a spoken acknowledgment by you that I have remorse, regret that I have done something, that might be heavier, my actions, my words have caused, I acknowledge that, I see that and I'm affirming

that and I want to let you know that I am sorry for that. I made a mistake and I seek your forgiveness. Now forgiveness is not a requirement for apology, okay, you've apologized, that is your action. Forgiveness is theirs, and by this person saying, you know what, now just let bygons be

bygons. I'm telling you, Katherine, that's not somebody that I would really want to be associated with, to be honest, that's them not, if they can't see themselves in something, you know, they say that they're so concerned about everybody else in their wrongs, rather than being concerned with yours, there's an incongruence there, and that to me is not okay.

So what do we, what do we do with that? Like I said, I want you to understand, you've done the right thing, you've done the right thing. That being said, because I don't know what you've done and what the context is, there is certainly a place where some things, I'm not trying to say things, all things are forgivable.

That's not what I'm saying, though I do, I'm somebody who is absolutely an advocate for grace and forgiveness, and that's the message that I'm blessed to be able to share. It is the aspect of some forgiveness takes time, and so maybe they're not able to forgive you today, maybe they're not able to forgive you tomorrow, or next week, or next month, or even next year, or maybe for many years to come, that is not yours to carry.

There is healthy regret, and there is toxic shame, and what I am asking you to do is keep it in realizing, yes, I did things that I've regret, I've apologized for that, I've tried to make amends for that, and that is as far as you can go. You cannot make somebody cross that line and say, I forgive you at the same time, their forgiveness is not a requirement of you to also forgive yourself, just because they withhold their

forgiveness does not mean you are undeserving of your forgiveness to yourself for whatever it

is that you've done, so don't feel like that is something that you're never going to have

complete full circle on that you're not going to feel whole about, all right?

“So you've done what you need to do to you don't need their forgiveness for you to also”

forgive yourself, and three, when it comes to people who say, well, let's just agree to disagree. That to me is a little different than let's buy guns, be buy guns, so I'd see those things as two different, very two different issues. My encouragement that I want to give you, Katherine, is you saying this doesn't feel right to me, I think that's a true feeling, there's a reason why that doesn't feel all

the way complete to you and that buy guns be buy guns is not good enough, and I agree because that's just going to be something that is unspoken in this relationship, and so I would be totally open and encouraging of the conversation of buy guns be buy guns is not enough for me, that's not going to be something that sits well with me, there is either

that this is going to be a rift in a rupture until you're ready because there's certain

things that are going to take time, so I don't think you've done anything wrong in wanting to apologize, I think that's the, of course, the bigger move. I'm not also willing to say truly, Katherine, that they're not wanting to accept that the gift forgiveness right at that moment is all the way wrong, either sometimes forgiveness takes a lot of time, and there's all things to be said of living in a mince and being able

to continue to do the best that you can, I think there's, I think there's a place where both

“things can be true, so what you're doing, I think is exactly what you need to be doing.”

I would just encourage you to know that their forgiveness is not required for your healing. Thanks, Katherine. Before we keep going, I want to talk to you a moment about cozy earth. I love cozy earth, but in fact, you only need to hear from me. I'm going to give you a text that I, I kid you not, I kid you not listen to me.

You're going to say that can't be true. This is a thousand percent true. I just got this text from my mama less than an hour ago. She said it was so good to see you this weekend. It was my brother's birthday birthday, brother's wedding in Austin, my baby brother.

I'm looking forward to keeping the kids soon. I love my pajamas that you gave me, which are the cozeroth pajamas I gave her last year. About getting another pair during their mother's day sale, do you still have a discount code?

“One, I think I can hook her up with some more pajamas, but this is how much I don't know”

if my mom loves anything more than these pajamas aside from us, dillards, tablets, bells and definitely cozy earth. I, but for the rest of you, I have a discount code, go to cozeroth.com/jeverson. You just take a Jefferson and get up to 20 percent off, that's cozeroth.com/jeverson. You just take a Jefferson, forget up to 20 percent off the most comfortable pajamas you'll

ever wear mama-fisher recommended, and now let's keep going. Hey, Jefferson, I'm Janey from Vancouver. I work in the movie business as a camera PA. I have a supervisor who controls my bookings and sets my rate. I've been underpaid relative to my colleagues and there's a history of eliminating my

access to better opportunities. There's a new project coming up and I expect to call soon. My question is, how do I ask for a higher rate without damaging the relationship? For context, I had a conversation last year that went over poorly.

I opened with your framing and always going very well until I mentioned a raise.

I opened on a growth and career advice, but things stowards at the top of money. I've been at the day rates of $100 less than my peers, often for the same work. Thanks for that question, man. That's not cool, and that feels really unfair, and I don't blame you for feeling that way.

Here's what I would encourage you to do. I feel like I'm doing a better service if I approach this very targeted, because it sounds like you've already approached from a position of teaching, career advice, what can I do, what can I learn, and then it turns sour at the aspect of money. That's not uncommon, but what it does tell you is what you're dealing with.

“How are we going to approach this conversation differently?”

We're going to do a different tactic, a different approach. One, I'm going to encourage you to whoever this is, let's say it's your supervisor. Approach them with the question, is there a conversation where we can talk about my salary without damaging our relationship? So you see how I am, you're trying to separate the two.

Because I hear you say I'm very concerned about how do I talk about money without touching this relationship? Well, that's beautiful language, use that language. Like that same fear and vulnerability you're sharing with me. That needs to be shared right there, because that's the crux of it right there.

We're not going to, we're not going to hide that. So when you open with, is there room four? Is there a place for, is there a way? You see how I'm, I'm opening up a blank canvas. Is there a chance?

I love that phrase too. Is there a way? Is there room four? Is there a chance? So let's, let's play it out.

Let's say I'm you, you're the supervisor. And I approach you when there is time for it, and it's not something that's rushed. And I say, I like to talk to you about something that's important to me.

And I need to know something first, is there room for us to have a conversation about my

compensation that is separate from the relationship that you and I have in that we're continuing to build?

I guess, question mark.

So that, that is very out in front.

Seems also very fair. Hey, they should be able to separate compensation from relationship to say, hey, this is my security, my compensation and how I, I feel valued versus what I know you already and I have whether it's camaraderie and what we're trying to build because what you don't want is the, the money thing to go sour.

That's one approach. Let's talk about timing. Most people feel like they need to have these compensation, conversations and just one conversation, meaning we need to talk about my salary right now and if you don't give me an answer and the answer that I want, the fear from them is that you're going to

leave. You're going to find something else. And they have to kind of immediately as any business owner or leader or manager, they start doing the numbers in their head of, oh, okay, well, if I don't, if I don't give them exactly what they want, money wise, I don't know if we can afford it.

We've got to look at the books. I don't know, do I need to hire some else who could also do a cheaper and they start seeing you as a commodity and as a product and as a cog, not as, Jimmy, the human, the, the, the

PA who's amazing as job, you know what I mean?

“So rather than thinking, you need to have a conversation right now, what I would encourage”

you is to use this phrase, add on to it. This is a conversation I like to have with you over the next few weeks. You see how you's immediately lifted the burden of now, I do think you need to put a deadline on it, but when you able, when you're able to kind of expand and say, hey, I like to have a conversation, I'd like to have this conversation with you this month before the end of

this month or over the next few weeks. You're signaling that this is something that we're continuing to invest in. So let's talk about it for a little bit. Go back to the drum board. Let's talk about it.

You want it this to be a collaborative thing.

This is not a demand thing, this is something that you want to work on together and that's

very different. Number three, are you ready for the hard stuff? This is where we got to talk about money and the fact that your other colleagues are getting paid $100 more than what you're getting paid, even though it's the same as similar work. Not cool, we're going to do something about that.

So this is where I want you to consider and I say consider because everybody's tolerance is different. I want you to ask a question, you're going to know when the timing's right for this.

“This is not a question that you ask right out of the gate, all right, Jimmy?”

So you're going to begin with the phrase, are you against? And this is what it's going to sound like. Are you against paying me the same amount as you pay these other pays? To hear how that's different, the me saying, is there a reason why you don't pay me, what you pay them?

And because what they're doing is they're going to find a reason. Well, yes, actually, and they're going to go look into the comparison game. And what they're trying to do is get you to show all the differences in discrepancies and rather than go with you and go, oh my gosh, Jimmy, you're so right, and I'm so wrong. They're going to try and justify every little discrepancy as to double down and say, I'm

right, you're wrong. But when you say, are you against that positions the question of fairness, that positions it in terms of what, what's the, what's the difference here? What's the hold-up? What were you pushing against that you can't pay me the same?

It's a question that there's an alligate is because it, it gets them to a no answer. Are you against? That assumes that they're not. And so you're wanting them to get to a no, that's, that's the win kind of, so to speak. That's the success, that's, that's a good thing, it's a window here.

“If they say no, are you against paying me the same amount that you pay everybody else?”

So that's a much easier question for them that you are calling them out, but you're doing it in a way that is much more intentional, calls in the sense of, it's, you're pretty much saying, is there a reason you're not paying me like everybody else? But the way that you're packaging the question is not going to pull out the spikes from them on that sense of defensiveness of, I have to justify myself to you.

But if you ask it, are you against that saying, as if everybody else is, go with this, but they have a particular issue with it. And when you're able to get to the heart of that, I think that's going to be really revealing, and here's the takeaway. If they're still out willing to, and you go, yeah, I am against it because of X, Y, and

you don't believe those reasons are valid. We need to find somewhere else for your value, where you can feel validated that you're going to be paid just as much as everybody else for the same exact amount of effort. All right? Awesome question, all the best to you, man.

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I need her to understand the problem in the pain she's causing. She lost her dad, she's suffering, we all are, but she is taking it out on me by stealing, using my debit cards, and she's abusing the one person that loves her. I want her to understand her pain and the pain it's causing me, but in a loving way, and I want her to get on the right path.

Thank you so much. Joanna, I want to tell you, you're a good mom, and the fact that you would call me the ask for some things to say is not something I take lightly at all. I can't imagine what you're going through, and how painful that must be to not only have lost of your daughter's father, but also in some way, feeling like you've lost some of your

daughter. She's 21, and she's stealing credit cards and using debit cards, and she's causing you pain. I know that you'd love her, I know that you wouldn't be calling if you didn't, and the things I'm going to say, and the things that are coming to mind for me, are things

“that I want to send to you in the warmest, most genuine way that I know how, right?”

The first is going to be some tough love by me, and that is, you can't keep offering

the credit cards and cards, that would be to enable that kind of behavior, and of course she's shown herself not to be trustworthy of that, that's not your fault. What I'm saying is we're going to have to do some practical things, and that means some things are going to have to be limited until that trust is formed again, because right, now that trust is having a hard time.

Two, when you have these conversations with your daughter and those, these are conversations, you're going to need to have, I need you to approach these, not in the aspect of coming down on her, that she's done something wrong, because it's not about the money, right? It's not about the credit card, it's that she did it, knowing it would cause pain, and it would inflict pain onto you, and any loss, it's this thing I heard once, no, I sat beside

What your daughter's feeling is the same thing, you're feeling probably on a different

scale, because grief is not linear, that she's feeling a lot of grief, and what she's doing is using grief as a way to mask and blame and cause even more hurt, because sometimes causing others pain is at least somehow a little bit more of an outlet in escape from feeling your own pain, and that's not fair, and it's not right, so how do we handle that?

“I want you to approach a conversation, so you need to have a conversation with her, and”

I would open it up with this question, or something like it, however, fits with you, and it would be this, are you aware that you're not the only one hurting, or are you aware that what you're doing is hurting me, or it's okay to say, I miss him too, without mentioning the cards at all, the cards will be talked about, but that's not the issue, it's like

the issue is not the milk, it's always something else, something deeper, so at this

point I'm guessing, join it, it's not about the cards, it's about something deeper, and where I would want you to focus your mind, is I assume you're wanting to find ways to help her, I'm fine, you're wanting to talk with her, want her to share her pain, to be

“able to empathize with that, when I think of something that I can possibly offer to help”

what a hard and complex and deep conversation and issue that you're having, what comes

in mind for me, is a place in a mindset for you where you can look at your daughter and

say, my love for you is big enough, my love is big enough to hold your pain, like my love for you, is big enough to hold all of your pain, to know that she can lash out, maybe even words and express and not know where to turn all this grief and this anger and all this emotion and that you can be that safe place without coming at her with condemnation or punishment or telling her how she should feel about certain things, I think there's

a place for you where you can say, I support these things and I cannot support these things, and both can be true, I can support you when you need somebody to talk to, I can support

“you when you need somebody to shoulder to cry on when you're confused and you need to hear”

a voice and for me, just listen, I can support you and I cannot support you when you still my credit cards, when you lie to me, when you take my debit card, when you're abusing the very kindness I loved that I'm giving you, I cannot support that, because understand you not supporting that is in the same way supporting your love for her, because I know you love your daughter more than anything and you're wanting to hurt to be on the right

track, and so what you have is an opportunity right now to be the safest place for her, for her not to continue on, to go seek relief from her grief and pain, somewhere else, I would have the mindset of, you can hold it all, all of the pain and the grief that she's feeling right now, you're a good mom, Joanna, and I just want to give you the biggest of hugs.

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I am now a supervisor above the majority of my former peers. How do you navigate being direct with people that have become friends, what are practical

“steps to get out of the friends down with your peers, and continue to be direct?”

I obviously want to be liked, but I think that is struggle for me, but I want to be direct, I want to get results, I'm willing to change and find pathways to grow and be direct. I think that's all I've got, so just want to get out of the peer-to-peer area and start to establish the Supervisor-to-peer relationship, get out of the peer friends down, that's my favorite. >> Deilin, that's a good question, and I like that concept of how do you get out of the peer-to-peer

friend zone, where you're all on the same level, and then you get promoted, and now you're responsible for them, and what's the dynamic, like you're just being friend zone, and are you still, are you boys, or are you not, is there this kind of, how do you communicate, how do you show them that there is that superiority at the same time?

“You do want some level of trust, in friendship, and camaraderie at the same time, there has”

to be a chain of command, that's just what the business says, here's some thoughts, Deilin. Number one, I want you to get very comfortable with the phrase, "I'm telling you this because." So start your sentence with, "I'm telling you this because." And here's where you can add a little bit of trust, because these, I'm assuming these men and women, they might feel a little bit slided, possibly, the fact that you got the position and they didn't, and so there's

going to be this aspect that they're looking to see, "Are you different?" You know, it has a gone to your head, and they're going to start to count that against you of like, "Oh, okay, Mr. Supervisor here," just said that I need to do X, Y, and feeling like you've, trying to, you know, what, and the legal world, when a judge is making some big decisions, we'll say he's feeling his robes. In other words, you're, you're starting to kind of fill yourself out a little bit.

Here's what I would encourage. With that phrase, I'm telling you this because you can insert trust

by saying, "I'm telling you this because I know I can trust you." I'm telling you this because I know you appreciate transparency. I'm telling you this because I know you can handle it. I'm telling you this because I know who you are. I'm telling you this because I know your work ethic. You see how, it's, it's like a shortcut to saying, "Hey, I could go through the," I'm going to say, "Rigamo roll." I could go through all the legalies of sound more corporate sound like Supervisor,

but I know you. And you know me. And I'm telling you this because I know who you are. And I want to have a conversation about X, Y, and Z. It's like you're saying, "Hey, I'm just going to cut through, I'm going to cut all of the fluff here and just get right to the point." Cool. So I'm telling you this because it helps get right to the point. Number two, there should also be this aspect of yellow there for a job. And yes, you can be friends and friendly and you're going to want to keep

that. And that has a lot to do with your tone and behavior, which it sounds like daily, that's exactly

we need to structure this in a way where we still get the job done." Here, I want you to rely

on language around teamwork, language around organization, teamwork around direction. So what I like this tell new leaders like yourself, the more you can use words like alignment, direction, those are words that a captain would use. You're setting the road map of what you see. So get really good at using language that kind of forecasts the direction and movement of where you're wanting to take them. So instead of this, "Hey, I need to have a conversation with you. I'm not happy

about what you're doing. This isn't going well or whatever it is." Have conversations around. I like to move us in a direction where you and I can do this more efficiently and I need your help

with this. You're telling them, "You still need their help." And the same way they need your help.

And so to have that open line of communication of that, "Hey, we're going in this direction together." That is you calling the shots. That's you being captain of the ship. So to speak to allow them to trust that you're also going to take care of them and bring them on board with you.

“You with me? All right. Number three, let's say you need to have a really hard conversation with”

this person and their friends and you like them. And there's this guy who's also another engineer and he's your boy, but at this time he's he's causing you some problems. You're not really sure how to handle it and you want to sound more direct. I'm going to encourage you to use what I

deep dive in the book as frames, conversational frames, meaning you are pinpointing exactly the

issue that needs to be spoken of and you are naming the goal of the conversation before you even begin because it's often that we get it backwards. So this is what a frame could sound like for you with this person that might be giving you some issues. So you're going to start with number one, tell them what you need to talk to them about. Hey, I like to talk with you about some comments you made at last week's meeting. Two, you tell them how you want to end the conversation. I

like to begin with, I want to walk away with, that's that's a phrasing. All right, I like to use. Hey, I like to walk away with xy and z. So it might be one I like to talk with you about some comments you made at last week's meeting and I want to walk away with the understanding that that's not going to happen again. I want to walk away with trusting that you know that's not going to be putting us in a good position. I want to walk away with xy and z. There needs to be something you

are bringing away taking away from that conversation. A three, you get there buying into the conversation.

“It's where you say that's how good is that work? Can we do that? And they're going to they're not.”

And that that allows you to continue the conversation and exactly how you want to frame it up. So if you and this other person you feel like y'all are on ice or it's rocky get really good talent on speaking that out loud. So don't let these moments of hidden tension words like unvoiced go unvoiced. That that is a recipe for disaster when there's unspoken expectation and unspoken reaction to things. You can tell that there's something in between you.

I want you to say it out loud. And I'm not saying you have to like read a magic ball until what's going on. It's a simple thing. I feel like there's something between us right now. I feel like there's something unspoken. I feel like there's something more that you want to say. I feel oh here's a given daily. If I use this a lot when these these kind of edgeier moments where you're not really sure how to gauge what the reaction is going to be. So instead of using

really concrete specific words I use words that are a little bit more you pick with this words that have a little bit more give to them. For example you can go with distances in weather

“those are my two favorite. So what does that mean? Instead of saying what's wrong with you?”

What's wrong with you? You act like something's wrong. I could say you feel really far from me right now. I'm feeling a dissent between this. I'm feeling like there's a mile between us and I need to find a way for us to be on the same page. You said I didn't say anything about any specificity or about it. Or like in somebody's asking you how are you feeling rather than having to sift through that you say oh you know what? I feel like things are kind of cloudy right now. I think

that's things are kind of stormy right now. You see how it's much easier way to kind of dip your toe and to getting them to tell you more. And so I would encourage you to be someone who as you

response to conversation, a great leader, leaves her in for it and daily and I think that's exactly

what you're wanting to achieve. So I think if you begin with this very concrete stuff,

I'm telling you this because if you invite more conversation, if you are encouraging them

“and using frames and being direct when you need to be direct, I want you to have the mindset”

that being direct like this is exactly what they want. They want you to be very direct. So even if

you were to say I need to have a very direct conversation with you because I know that's what you need and I know that's what you want. I know that's what you deserve. Right? Hey, you deserve a really

“direct conversation right now and that's that's what I'm prepared to do. I think I think you know”

exactly where that's going. So I encourage you, Dailin. Awesome conversation man.