#2462 - Aaron Siri

>> The Joe Rogan experience.

“>> Join my day Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.”

[MUSIC] >> So you had a pile of notes, and then you just folded them up, like did you commit them to memory? >> No, I've just these two things. I have the links I sent you guys.

>> Oh, okay, and just some stuff, that's just the paper that you fold it. >> What's in there? >> That's just. [LAUGH]

>> How did, first of all, I want to talk you through,

like when you were a younger man before you had looked into this. What was your opinions on medical science? What was your opinions on vaccines? Were you skeptical? Or did you just kind of assume that everything that we're told is exactly how it is.

And experts have only the best interests of human beings in mind and not money. >> I had what you would effectively call the mainstream view. >> Yeah. >> Vaccine saved humanity. >> Me too. >> We'd all be dead without them.

>> You know, there was the Bible given it to Moses at Sinai and then there were vaccines.

“>> Yeah. >> That's basically, I think it's anybody that didn't consider themselves a fool.”

You know, you would have to be a fool, like a real fool to ignore all this medical science, which is the reason why there's so many people alive today that would have died. And a lot of that's true, what penicillin antibiotics, there's a lot of stuff that's saved a lot of people's lives.

But the vaccine won until this COVID epidemic, I would have never questioned it.

I mocked antivaxers, I was like these people are silly. Don't they know all the good things that vaccines have done? And there's the blatant propaganda that we were forced fed. Like one of those ducks are trying to make fog while with. It just made me stop and pause and go, is the whole thing like this?

Is this whole thing just a dirty money laundering operation? Because it kind of seems like that's at least part of the reason why they were telling people to get boosted when they knew it wasn't working. And telling young people that didn't need it to, they wanted to make a lot of money. That's the only reason why you would do it to those things. After a certain amount of information is out.

And so it just made me stop and think about the whole thing and go, why would I assume that this is the one area where pharmaceutical drug companies docked. Everybody has been totally honest in this one area. But it's like a religious thing, if you question it.

“And that's why I love the title of your book.”

Yes. Vaccines amen. Yeah, religion of vaccines. That's what it is. It's a religion for secular, intelligent people with a higher education.

And it causes incredible cognitive dissonance for anybody out there to come to the conclusion that the CDC and the FDA and our public health authorities and what the entire medical establishment has been telling you may not the accurate about vaccines. Because like what you just said, the claim that you're a flat earther. You're an anti-vaxxer. Yes, and they're used as a way to say you are really out there and dumb. They're completely equal in their impact.

And so it takes incredible cognitive dissonance to say there are real problems with vaccines.

But vaccines really sit in their own little universe. They're unlike any other medical product. They're not like penicillin. They're not like any other drugs. They're not like any other product out there and you're the product in this room. Anything out there for one major reason.

Every other product that exists. I can sue the company. I can hold them accountable. If that product injures or kills you or your child on the basis that product could have been safer. The only product, and I mean this literally, the only product in America, where you cannot sue,

to say, "How'd you made that product safer? My child wouldn't be dead. My child wouldn't be seriously injured. They wouldn't have a neurological disorder. They wouldn't have immunological disorder. They wouldn't have a nervous system disorder. They wouldn't have a cardiac issue. Our childhood vaccines and child vaccines used by adults. It's the only one.

And that's because of a law called the National Childhood Vaccine Injector in 1986. It gave former companies that incredibly special immunity. Now, just to put that into context. And I'll tie this back in a second as to how we ended up with this notion of this belief religion in vaccines. Because given industry 40 years of unopposed ability to influence,

they're going to get pretty dang far, and they did with vaccines. And so, a lot of industries face across roads where their products are causing more harm than good.

They had a better gas tank. Building materials had a spestus caused cancer. What did they do? They make better building materials. Did they give them immunity? No, of course not. But in the instance of vaccines leading up to 1986, there were only three routine vaccines. That's it. That's all there was.

A child following the CDC schedule in 1986 got three injections on a before the first birthday.

Okay? Those three products were causing so much harm and injury that every manufacturer of them went out of business. And that was the MMR vaccine, the DTP and the OPP vaccine. Every single one from six down to one, or for the peer tusks vaccine, six down from measles, about three down from folio, and with one company left for each. Instead of forcing them to do what every other industry has to do, like I said,

make better building materials without a spestus. Make better cars that don't explode. Go down the chain of different products out there. Congress did something completely unique. It said, "You know what? We're just going to give you immunity.

We're going to make it so that no company sees me. No individual, no parent, no child can sue you for the injuries and deaths caused by your vaccine products.

That is what the National Childe Vaccine Injury Act in 1986 did.

And not only for those three products, but for any other child to vaccine thereafter. And what that effectively has done is given 40 years for the industry to promote their products, no pushback when you read about a problem with a car.

“Where are you reading about it from? Usually a class action lawsuit in the paper, right?”

Not going to read about that in vaccines typically. And because of that, you ended up where we are anyways. There's a lot more detail to that, but I'll stop there for now. No, please keep going. Well, I mean, when you think about what makes products safer, right?

Because I've got to law firm with over 100 individuals on the management partner of the firm. Half of my firm does all types of plate decide class actions. We can hold companies accountable for almost anything.

Your data, we do hundreds of data breach cases,

genetic privacy cases, genetic privacy cases, we do all kinds of all types of lawsuits like that nature. And New York Times loves those lawsuits, probably. That stuff, nobody attacks me for, okay? Oh, making my privacy better, protecting me from cars that explode. Oh, thank you.

Makes that scene safer. You want to kill everybody, okay. Then any of that, but that's where it's really weird.

“Well, here's where I think I can make, I'm hoping I can make it make sense without causing cognitive dissonance.”

So going back to how we make products safer in America or anywhere, okay? It's not the government. Governments don't make products safer. Look at extremely authoritarian regimes, where there is very little free market like the former U.S. authority. The products are safe, no.

What makes products safe? It's the economic self interest of the company. It's the economic interest of the company to make the products safer. Why? You probably own stock, right?

And where do you want your stock to go up or down? How do you want it to go? You want it to go up or you want it to go down? Where do you want it to go? You want it to go up, okay?

So we're all the investors, right? So does everybody owns that stock? So does Wall Street? So does the CEO? So does the board?

So does everybody, the people of the stock? Everybody involved? All the employees that have stock options, including them. Usually, the major ones, everybody wants it to go up. If you lose money, it doesn't go up.

So normally, the interest to assure a product is safer is aligned with the profit motive. Because if your product causes injury and harm, then you're going to lose money. You want to know, typically, you have any economic self interest as a corporation to know. That could draw a twist. That could draw a moral, not could you ethical.

Just because you have that economic self interest to assure the product is safer.

“Before you go to market, and after you go to market, okay?”

And that exists for every product in America with effectively one exception. Vaccines. That's really it. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one website platform that helps you stand out online. And I can say that because my website is powered by Squarespace.

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Now, I'm going to show you one result of that in practice, okay?

“When you think of drugs, and this will help, I think, tie into which you're saying what happened with COVID.”

Most drugs are licensed based on multi-year placebo control trials. Most of them. Why? Because the FDA requires it? Because the FDA is so great?

No. Nothing to do with the FDA. It's because the company wants to know whether the drug is safe or not, before it goes to market.

Because you don't happen to the drug that they put out that's going to make 40 billion in revenue or 20 billion because it's 100 billion in harm.

They end up upside down. So they want to know to a reasonable degree how safe the drug is before it goes to market.

“In an attempt not to cherry-peck, as I did in my book, I found an article that listed the top four selling profitable drugs by Pfizer as of like 2021 or something 2019, okay?”

And if you look at those four most profitable drugs, as I put in my book, each one has two to seven years of follow-up in the clinical trial that was relied upon to license that drug against a placebo control group. Just to make sure everybody knows what that means. But that just means a group that gets something inner. So this way you give it the group the experimental drug, you give a group the placebo, something inner.

You track them from multiple years and then you compare all the outcomes. Cardiovascular outcomes and neurological outcomes and immunolot. Good on the list. Cancer rates and you see the difference. You get a real actual sense of the safety between those two for that product. In contrast, for most childhood vaccines, instead of years, it's often days or weeks of safety review in the clinical trial. I would have a lot of time to license them. Not a single. And I know that folks can test all time, but it's in the FDA literature.

Now, a single routine injected childhood vaccine was licensed based on a placebo control trial.

“Save for the COVID vaccine, by the way, for children, see only one. Not a single one, okay?”

And nor was the vaccine sometimes uses the control itself licensed based on a placebo control trial. Nor anywhere down that chain. Chapter 10 of my book, I go through every vaccine, I go through, I have it all sided to the FDA licester documents. You can listen to the talking heads where you can align the primary sources from the FDA, which is why I call my book Vaccines Amen, because there is what they tell you, and then there's what the actual evidence shows.

So that gives you an example how the outcome of not having an economic self interest with drugs they have it, so they want to know the safety. Can I challenge you on that? What about these? Like, the Viox people knew that there was one of the things that was revealed during the trial is that they knew that there was going to be issues, but I think the quote buzz, we still think we'll do well. And that was one of the damning aspects of the email disclosure, because you got a chance to see how these guys talk about this drug that they're about to release.

I think they wound up paying a percentage of the amount of money they made from the drug, and they would made way more from the drug than they did the fine. No, I appreciate that challenge. And it's why I said when I was saying that they do the analysis of whether they're going to have a hundred billion in loss or 50 or 40 billion in revenue. I'm not saying they won't put out a drug that causes harm.

You're saying because it's caused too much harm. Exactly. They don't end up upside down, and remember the whole reason a drug is licensed is because it caused harm. The crazy thing about the Viox one is I think it killed somewhere north of 50,000 people, and they still made profit off of it, which is kind of bananas. They pulled it and made billions in profit.

This is the darker aspect of this. If you were talking about companies that never did anything wrong, it had the highest moral and ethical standards,

and there are the ones because it's not about money. It's about saving people's health, and it's about public safety, and we got to make sure we do this right. We're going to make sure we squash all the disinformation, but that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about these companies that have been fined billions, billions of dollars in criminal fines for fraud, for all kinds of shit. These are the people, and the idea that they wouldn't lie about vaccines.

Ruthless, capitalist, attached to money and drugs. This is the one thing they're going to 100% tell you the truth about. That seems kind of cookie. That's a hard sell for anybody who's not ideologically captured. That's a hard sell.

“Yeah, but I don't think you need to go down the road that there's some kind of evil and nefariousness there.”

That's what I'm saying. It's a broken economic and regulatory system from my perspective. Right. It's just a completely broken. To your point about viox, right?

So, in viox it causes incredible amount of harm, but they still decided that the benefits that raise the risk.

Do you know the story about the cars that you used to explode? It's the classic case we learned in law school. And the gas tank and, you know, these cars that are-- Those are the pentos. That's right. Yeah.

And a number of them exploded over your burning the people inside them alive to death, right? Horrible way to go. And there was a lawsuit. And in that lawsuit, what they discovered was, the company had done an internal calculation in which it did the math.

What's going to cause to actually fix all the gas tanks? What's that dollar number versus what's it going to cause to just pay out for those deaths every year for those people that we burn, knowingly are going to die and burn to death in those cars. And the calculation was that it was going to cost less to pay out for the deaths. And that is what the internal document showed.

And that, by the way, is in part the case, the quintessential case you learned in law school for why they're punitive damages. Because the punitive damages were there to force the company to conform its conduct in exactly that scenario where the economics weren't going to do it, right? Even in something that horrible when the market forces weren't sufficient. The economics of interest wasn't there. You had to make it happen.

How through punitive damages? I know there's a lot of news about punitive damages.

“It's excessive and so forth, but that's what they're there for.”

They're there for that scenario where we're just holding the mechanical and now go back to vaccines. Think about how incredibly harmful and how much harm these vaccines must do that they cannot survive on the market without this immunity from 1986. Think about that. If you were going to steal me on the argument against that. Yes.

Didn't you say, look, these are we can't have frivolous lawsuits against these people that are providing us the most important medication that's available to humans.

The whole reason why we survived smallpox and polio and all these different things. It's these vaccines without them we'd all be dead. This episode is brought to you by Montana and knife company. I have used their knives for years. They are absolutely fantastic.

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My personal favorite blade is the speed goat 2.0. I use it all the time. It's an amazing knife. Montana knife company working knives for working people. Let's just assume that the last part of what you said is true, which we know it's not.

But with that said, steel man in it. Let's steel man in it. Yeah. Easy response. Okay.

Okay. Drogs. Drogs. That are for very small populations. Meaning not a lot of market, not a lot of sales.

That cause incredible side effects can survive in the market profitably.

Think about that for a second. Why? Okay. Here's why. It's a little bit of legal stuff, but it's not that hard.

It's not that bad. Okay. The primary claim you would typically bring against a product is the claim that it could have been made safer. It's called a design defect claim.

“It's a claim that where I say, hey, had you put in a two cents stopper on that gas tank?”

It wouldn't have been exploded. If you could have put in a one penny plastic shield on that saw, I'd have my finger.

Design defect claim. The claim you could have made a product safer. It is the primary claim you would bring for a product. Okay. Injury claim.

So how do you protect against it? You make the product as technologically safe as possible. Right?

So if you have a drug that causes incredible side effects.

That we just talked about. Make the drug as safe as possible. Make sure that there are no contaminants. Make sure that you use the best possible ingredients. Make sure the combination.

Right? The safest adjuvant. Go down the road. That's number one. Number two.

The second most, the second way you hold a mechanism. You bring a claim called a failure to warm claim. I failed to warn you about the harm that the drug could have caused. Okay?

“And so what do you have to do there to protect yourself?”

The company has to disclose all the potential harms. If it has it right there in the package insert and you get it. And it says, hey, it can cause this, this, this, this, this, this. You were told you chose to still take the product. They made it a safest technologically feasible.

They disclose the risks. And that is how companies typically limit their liability with medical products with drug products. Okay? Why can't they do the vaccines? Why can't they just make them as safest technologically feasible?

Can't assume for design defect? And disclose all the actual risks in the package insert. Okay? The logical conclusion is, and and one other point that, and then I'll respond to your steel man. Okay?

And it's this. All right. It's been 40 years for some of these vaccines. Happy vaccine, for example. License in 86, 99, and the two standards.

It's been 40 years. You're telling me they still don't know what's safe enough to lift that immunity. You're giving it to millions of kids a year. You're making billions of dollars on the sales of this product. And you still don't know what's safe enough to lift that immunity, please.

Um, okay. If I was a silly person. Okay? I would probably say these vaccines are more important than any medication that's ever existed. Because they are the reason why we are here.

“Because that's how we survive smallpox and polio and the measles and everything else.”

Without them, we would have perished.

We would have never achieved the technological states that were out because we wouldn't have been healthy.

We would have gone through mass plagues. Okay. I'll respond. So it's because of that. It's just important that they stay a, they stay in business.

Well, a few things. And we trust the science. We should trust the science. Yes. Believe Aaron, trust the science.

Yes, sir. Amen. Amen. Yeah, I try not to do too much believing. And I try to do a little bit of evidence based thinking.

But any event, look, when it comes to these products, I saved my beliefs for religion. The unanswerables. Where do we go when we die? Right. And so forth.

I have to take a leap of faith. And I do it when I need to, but you don't need to with these products. Okay. On the first part of what you said, first of all, there are products. Probably that are far more important humanity at the moment.

No question about it than vaccines, even assuming it had the results that you just claimed which all address in a second.

Imagine you said, you want, look, cars are essential.

I mean, you can't get an ambulance. You can't get a hospital. Without cars, you can't get to work. You can't get to get to school. I mean, it's essential to a functioning society.

So let's give a car to me in the liability. Intuitively, you say that's ridiculous. Right. On the death's point, that is one of the myths. That is one of the mythologies around vaccines that has developed over time.

This notion that everybody in America die without vaccines. In chapter 7 of my book, and I laid out for every single disease. And what I do there is I say, okay, how many deaths were there in America

“the year before the vaccine was first introduced or widely used or so forth, okay?”

And any real degree. And what you find is, if you go down the list, there were typically dozens to hundreds, maybe a thousand or so deaths from each disease for which we vaccinate. The further back in time you go, the larger the number,

but in that dozens to a thousand or so deaths, okay? For example, measles. The dreaded measles that they say, everybody will die for. No measles vaccine, we're all going to die, right? That is the impression they give you.

You have any idea on people died of measles in the years before there was measles vaccine in the United States? That's it. That's it. That's it.

Four hundred a year, died in the United States at a time when everybody had measles, which comes out to about one in 450,000 Americans dying of measles. That's in the CDC. Anybody with listening to this was like, come on, that's not true.

CDC mortality documents on the CDC website cited in my book 400. And don't, about 50,000 people over your dive from the flu? Well, that statistic includes bacterial deaths that they say are potentially the result from having influenza, but so your immune system gets weakened

And that kills you.

Is that the idea behind it?

Well, that's just the way they gather the data. That's the way I'll put it. But within fluenza, well, let me finish up with this.

“Yeah, because I think this is important on the measles one.”

And I can deal with influenza as well. But on the measles one, just to really, because you're saying, well, everybody would die without these. I don't think people think of influenza by the way. They think of measles.

Right. They think of those diseases. Right. I don't have her here. Everybody say to me, well, everybody would die of influenza with that

because I don't have any influenza vaccines. Everybody, it's available. Everybody can get it. The mortality hasn't changed much in fact.

If you look, the mortality from influenza before influenza vaccines are widespread,

we're not doing that great. Okay, anyway, putting that aside for a moment. Not only, yeah, isn't there data that shows that if you get it, you're more likely to get other colds? Yeah, I have a whole giant footnote in my book about this.

There's stories of articles, studies that show that those that have had the influenza vaccines, maybe the studies often have around the same rate of influenza,

“maybe they have less respiratory influenza infections.”

But many studies show they have multiple times the rate of other respiratory infections. So, good job. Maybe you reduce your risk of influenza by this much, but you've increased your risk of another different respiratory disease by that much. How much does it, how much does it increase?

It depends on the study. Some studies show four times versus some studies. So three times versus, yeah, I mean, little or three or four, I mean, huge percentages. So, and there's statistically significant in these studies.

And so, you know, when you're looking at, these are all retrospective epidemiological studies. And, but when you do a retrospective epi study, which means you take existing data, and then you study it versus saying,

okay, we're going to do a study and follow people going forward, okay. If you find, like, a 1.3 ton, which means 30% increase risk, like that's a public soulful finding. This is 3,400% increase risk. Yes.

And many of these studies. It's inconvenient data, so obviously, it's not talked about. Right. So, 400 people's not a whole lot. I'm sure, I mean, it's sad when 400 people die.

But it's also one of those diseases that when you're a child, it's much more survivable, right, than adult adults rough, isn't it? Yeah. So, measles, the ideal age to get it is not when you're an infant,

which in the pre-vaccine era, infants typically did not get measles because they got maternal immunity from the mother. And you don't want to get it as an adult, because it is more likely to cause problems, which again, in the pre-vaccine era,

was in a problem, because everybody virtually got it as a child. Right. Yeah. And when you got it as a child, my recollection of it was the episode of the Brady Bunch.

Do you remember? Yeah. Number of that episode of The Laughing About It. Let's watch this. Find that clip, but let's watch it,

because it's so indicative of what measles was actually like in the culture of the people that would get it all the time. It's like, "I mean, it's so stark." It's like, "I imagine the kid coming home. Hey, Mom, I've got AIDS. I've got to stay on from school."

It's not that, right? It's the way that most folks who've had chicken pox think of chicken pox. Right. But we're told that it's killing people. We're told that it's killing people now.

We're told that it's killing kids. We're told it's killing kids now. And look, if anybody dies from measles, I'm very sad. But I want to know, is it with measles?

Remember the with COVID or from COVID?

“What kind of condition would these people in before this hit them?”

Because some, I mean, that was the thing about COVID. It's like, yeah, it's fatal. If you have four plus comorbidities, that's it's more likely to be fatal. And that was most of the people that wind up dying from it, right?

That's almost certainly the case. And I can add another data point to that to help support that, which is that between 1900 and this is again, CDC data. Between 1900 and the late 1950s, early 1960s, the mortality from measles declined in the United States,

by over 98%. You know what did it cause that? Vaccines. Yeah, because it didn't exist. I don't know.

But so immunity had become a herd thing. Just like COVID-ish right now.

Well, everybody basically has had COVID,

or at least it's exposed to it by now. Yeah, here it is. Yeah, it's the whole episode. There's multiple clips. I don't know which one is one.

He finds out he's coming over.

Put on your headphones for a second.

So we could hear this. Aaron. Oh, you sure it's the measles? Well, he certainly got all the symptoms. It's like temperature.

A lot of dots and a great big smile. No school for a few days. You've got measles. Golly, mothers are supposed to know everything. But do you have to keep proving it?

You've got a temperature too. What do you mean, too? If you didn't send over school a little while ago. Oh, what was his temperature? 101.1.

Oh, dad, I'm 101.2. So great. You are my railroad. I'll be a sport. You can ride on it three.

Thanks a lot. It's your turn, Peter. So you're having a measles party? Oh, miss it. Yep.

Boy, this is the life in it. Yeah.

“If you have to get sick, you can't beat the measles.”

That's right. No medicine. Inside or out. Like shots, I mean, don't even mention shots. Yes.

Okay. I mean, am I crazy? Or have we gone through the one of the wildest gas Lightings of anything ever? There's people out there

that because of the things that you said so far about the measles, will be 100% freaking out on Twitter. All right. But this is a window into how the American public thought, I know it's a television show.

I know it's a sitcom. But you can't joke around about stuff that other people wouldn't think is funny. Yeah. Every people would think that was funny.

These kids saying, if you're going to get sick, you should get the measles. And everybody at home be like, "Oh, I wish I had a day off." Well, that's how they thought of it.

Yeah. And to put hard data on it, going back to that statistic over 98% reduction. Remember, it's not like COVID, Joe. Because COVID, there was no immunity in the population, right?

Right. Measles has been around for forever, as far as we know, thousands of years. Right. The year 1900 wasn't the beginning of herd immunity.

1900 measles already endemic. Everybody was getting measles. So every year, there's a few million people cohort that were getting it. And you had the decline.

“And so you have to ask yourself, "What was the decline?"”

It was probably better sanitation. Better medical care. I mean, all kinds of things. And you know who could take credit for most of that stuff. Better sanitation.

Better living conditions. Better you name it. Probably public health authorities. Meaning the improvement in acute care. The introduction of antibiotics.

Better living conditions. Not having sewage in the street. You name it. Right. Probably had a massive contributor to that reduction.

But they never point to that.

And there's one other really inconvenient data point with measles. And this is really where it gets upsetting for folks out there, who you were just saying, "We're going to watch the show." And it's this. That were over 98% reduction in mortality.

There's no reason that that curve was not going to continue. Because pockets of the United States in late 15 or early 60s were like a developing country.

“And a developing country, kids are going to die of any infectious disease”

because of extremely prolific conditions. And as those improved, most likely that 400 deaths also would have continued to decline. 4.2 million births in the United States in the late 50s or early 60s about 3.8 million births today.

So in fact, there's less children being born in America today than there was then. So you have a smaller cohort of babies young children to in fact and final data point. And it's this. And this is really, and this is going to cause cognitive dissonance for some.

But studies that have looked at those that have had measles. Versus those that don't find that those that have had measles have a statistically significant greater reduction in deaths from cardiovascular disease and various cancers. So I'll give you an example.

There's a 20 year, 22 year prospective study in Japan. Done by funded by the government of Japan and major universities that tracked 100,000 people in Japan for 22 years. And it found that those that had measles and mumps had a 20 percent statistically significant decline in deaths from cardiovascular disease.

Think about that for a second. Just think about that. But a hundred thousand Americans die of cardiovascular disease. If eliminating measles and mumps has increased cardiovascular deaths

in the United States, but even 1 percent on a life year's lost basis,

you are still way upside down on your public health benefit by eliminating measles. Can I ask you what the speculation is? How that could be? Why would measles and mumps infection at the early age

and prove your health cardiovascular?

have a 66 percent increased rate of oxygen,

not oxygen in the phoma and 260 percent increased rate of oxygen in some phoma, which kills 20,000 people a year. Why would women that have had measles have 50 percent less

“ovarian cancer, which kills a lot of women every year?”

What is it about it? Maybe. And here's the thing. I'm, you know, and you can have a leash slayer by I'll just talk about this as well. You've had some on.

Think about it this way. Pathogens have come and gone throughout the ages. Right? This one did it. Measles, mumps, rebella, chickenpox.

They didn't. It could be. Maybe. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying this is what the data appears to reflect.

What I just told you about with cardiovascular disease and cancer. They're all in PubMed. They're all PubMed studies. They're all in the public literature. They're all consistent having the findings that I just described.

Okay? I'm just repeating to what the data reflects. It could be that having those furbral childhood infections conferred a survival advantage overall.

And it could be the reason they never actually went away over time.

Became less. Obviously pathogenic. Simon asked you about the stroller. It's also a swiff-lashbick. And then it's often stoned.

Do you think it's all right? Yes, exactly. This stroller is the stroller that's just understood. The Gallup Studio, Job, or Unzug. Stoned.

Cross. It doesn't feel like stroller. Stroller is reading. Save. With this stroller.

There's a world. In the last few years. A living in a balesaw. And a toy. An every corner.

This world has been built as a big Britannian. At the entrance of the real life. Visit the Waren Star of the story. Address me on TripAdvisor.ie. Shrekstrich, a big Britannian.

So it has a hermitic effect and it makes you physically stronger somehow or another. It makes your immune system stronger. You're a cardiovascular. You're like a stress test. That means not outside the realm of possibility, right?

I mean, if lifting weight makes you stronger. And, you know, studying makes you smarter. Would it make sense that some form of infection that you recover from will make you more resilient? It doesn't make sense.

“It just like no one wants to say, "Hey, you should go get measles."”

It looks like it's in the world. Yeah, fear of relativity is not intuitive. Why is it, as you approach a more massive object or approach to speed of light as time relatively slow down? I don't know if it makes sense or not. It's just what when you put two atomic clocks on a plane.

One on the ground, one on the plane. You fly around the earth. They're not ticking the same. So there it is. Right.

You can't pretend that's what it is. It doesn't have to make sense to be true. That's good. That's just what it is. And I'm just saying what the study show.

Very inconvenient. A lot of cognitive dissonance there, but it could very well be that our whole... This whole program, not only do we... So go and back to your whole, going all the way back to your point. You're like, "Well, that'll save me.

Vaccines are so important. We've got to give them this immunity." No. In fact, quite the opposite. Our babies are so precious.

Our so important. We want to make sure we have the safest possible product you can have. And the way to do that is to make sure the companies have an economic interest to make sure they're as safe as possible. I agree with you entirely, but if I was questioning anything, I would say, "Okay."

If we don't have genetic immunity anymore, because our parents didn't have it, because our parents are vaccinated against measles, wouldn't it be better to keep vaccinating people rather than let a whole bunch of people with no immunity to measles get it, particularly like older people. So this is a really important point, actually.

I agree with you. Because here's, well, I've got to talk about what we could do. When they mandated vaccines, or when they started giving them to people was what? And like the early '60s, I believe, for measles vaccine. Measles, 63.

Did a lot of people resist it? Was it back then where the hippies opting out?

Is there a group that you could follow and track that never got it?

Never got the vaccine, while everybody else did? It has to be, right? I'm sure there's a group out there that you can identify. I mean, the Amish. There you go.

Right. So, you know, we represent right now, because New York's trying to basically kick them out in New York for now, vaccinated. That's great. We just went in the US Supreme Court.

We were just successful in vacating the lower court decisions. Just a few weeks ago.

“Do you remember when Kathy Holtchall was talking about the vaccines?”

Like, they're a gift from God? She believes it. But do you remember how she was saying it?

If you were running a pharmaceutical drug business, if you were running, if you were running Chevy, you were making a new Corvette. And you started talking about how this Corvette is a gift from God. Everybody will go, "Oh, Kathy's cracked." Yeah.

Like, what are you talking about? It's a bunch of engineers. We put together a great car. Like, what do you, it's a gift from God? What?

People don't say I believe in tables. I believe in chairs. I believe in TVs. I believe in wallpaper.

“But they say I believe in vaccines all the time, because it carries a tourism.”

But do they work? Like, does the measles vaccine prevent people from getting measles? Or is it a leaky vaccine? Is it a completely... So answering that and your prior question at the same time.

Sorry. No, no, no. I'm very scattered. No, I'd say that. That's all.

Is that... Is that... Is that... The measles vaccine? Measles...

MMR vaccine and chicken box vaccine can prevent transmission. That is not true of most vaccines, but those can't. So... Those can. Those can.

And so to your... Not going back. So that's the differential. And in fact, for most of the other vaccines, like protested vaccines, so forth, they make you more likely to spread the pathogen

if you're vaccinated. And I can tell you all about that. But before I do that, let me just point out that to your last comment, because MMR vaccine and chicken box vaccine can prevent transmission. You are correct.

If measles were to come through society right now, right now, in the current time, it would be problematic, because babies weren't supposed to get it would be more likely to get it, because the mothers aren't confirming the same internal immunity that they did in the pre-vaccine or because of vaccine doesn't confer the same level of immunity anywhere near. And older folks, because of the vaccine, is nowhere as efficacious as having had the infection.

Depending on the study, two to ten percent do not zero convert, even after two doses, meaning they are not getting immunity at all pretty much, or immunity is considered immune. It's just one way to take it later in life or when they took it, when they're young. This is when they take it, when they're young.

And that's when there's a measles outbreak.

“A lot of times you'll hear a call to even have folks who are older get the measles vaccine again, right?”

There's their guidance on that. Because it doesn't confer. If you've had measles, you're done.

You never need a vaccine.

Again, you'll never get measles again. One and done. Right. But so yes, it would be problematic right now for those for... MMR, measles most for Bella and chickenpox, to just kind of let it rip.

You'd have to really have an educational campaign beforehand if you were going to do that. But for the other vaccines, Hep B vaccine, pertussis vaccine, not a problem. Those vaccines don't stop transmission. That's what I want to do. That kind of crazy.

That they give that to babies. Kind of crazy. Kind of crazy. If the parent aren't intervened as drug users or whatever, whatever would give them happy. That you're going to inject a baby with a vaccine that prevents them from getting a sexually transmitted disease.

And like, our rarely site. You got to be doing something rough. You know, Joe, you just don't understand what goes on in the NICU. I mean, yeah. That's the, it just seems crazy. It is.

And here, I'll give you another data point, which is, in Denmark, okay. There is no Hep B, universal Hep B for kids. The only time they give Hep B in Denmark is if the mother is Hep B positive. So their Hep B vaccine ACE rate amongst children is like 0.1% or something to that effect. Okay. So here you go.

Two first world countries, American Denmark, universal Hep B here. Virtually zero Hep B vaccine given there. The rate of Hep B amongst children, not statistically significant. You know, it is different between those two countries. The rate of harm from Hep B vaccine.

That's different.

You know what, a baby's never died of on the first day of life.

Hep Hep B, you know what a baby has died of in the first day of life. Hep Hep B vaccine. In fact, adjudicated is such not long ago for a new born that died from a Hep B vaccine. And I said earlier, you can't sue the manufacturers. You cannot.

There is a little program, though, in the federal government where you can bring a claim if you're injured from a vaccine.

“That's what I'm talking about right now.”

I went about the Hep B that died of Hep B. Right. It's called the Vaccine Injury Conversation Program. I've like 20 folks in my firm that do that work. And, you know, it's not like a regular court.

You don't get an article three judge. Just an article three of the Constitution of federal judge. You don't get any discovery as a right, which is how you prove harms. There's a $250,000 statutory cap and paid in suffering and on death, which is ridiculous.

And it doesn't have, you know, anyways, long story short.

It's paid out about $5 billion for damages and so forth.

And vaccines over the years. But so I don't want people to get confused.

It's got adjudicated in this program. Got it. Got it. Yeah. So when you have conversations with people and they are the way you used to be in the way I used to be.

Yeah. Where you just sort of just assumed that these, the people that are experts in their fields are doing a great job. But that's why we're alive. And you start telling them these things. Like, are you a real problem at a cocktail party?

Have you ever had a conversation that just went completely sideways? They started getting angry at you for quoting things. Yeah. Because that's not a problem for me because I don't know motions or feelings about the products. They're just products.

Right. They're no different for me. But a lot of folks, they, there's two things. First, for some, like, meta professionals. A lot of them seem to drive a lot of their self schema almost.

The value they're worth and these products, they saved humanity. How could you question them? We are the saviors. Right. And some respects, almost like supplanting God.

Right.

“What's the only thing that will save us during COVID?”

Was it God? No. Vaccines. That's the only thing. And then for others, they think that they know.

Okay. But they don't know intellectually.

They've never looked at the primary sources.

So when you challenge them with evidence, what can they draw from the intellect? No. They draw from their emotions. They draw from their feelings. And that's why they get angry.

I get that, I do get that all the time. But I also often get folks who are just curious and interested to listen. Well, I think there's more of those now than there's ever been before. Absolutely. I think COVID in that respect forced the conversation.

You had millions of people who were listening to basic stuff that 10 years ago when I started doing this work. Nobody talked about what is the placebo. What's the clinical trial? What's the stuff?

Like this became, or even the idea that a vaccine can cause a harm was just that notion was totally taboo seven years. Right. No more. Yeah.

I think you're entirely correct. And also, credit to YouTube.

“Because YouTube doesn't suppress this stuff anymore.”

Which is why I found dozens of interviews with you on YouTube. I mean, I mean, I've seen some of your stuff on social media. But then, you know, I've watched a bunch of your stuff now on YouTube. Whereas during the pandemic, everything you said, you would have got removed. I was removed.

Everything I said was, I'll tell you the first thing that ever opposed that got set.

It was on Twitter. Yeah. The whole day. So we brought this lawsuit against the FDA to get all the documents. They were allowed upon to license.

Fives was COVID-19 vaccine. Okay. Yeah. They stay licensed and sit in 42 days. And we said, all right, for 42 days, give us all the documents.

Right. And they want to forever. They want that produce that array of 300 pages a month. We're going to take it hundreds of years, effectively. Got to tronch to those documents.

Took some of them. Literally took one of the documents and posted it. And my tweet was just literally quoting from the document, effectively.

“And that was taken down as misinformation.”

Fives was own documents submitted to FDA.

Well, first things, that was just, that was mind-jarring.

It was done. It was done to watch people not be outraged, too. When information was getting out about different people that were silenced, Jay Bautucharya, and all those different people that were giving an attack, Martin Coldorf, it was stunning how no one was going,

Hey, what is going on here? This seems really weird that you were moving posts from guys from MIT and Stanford and banning their accounts. That's fucking crazy. And until Elon purchased Twitter, we really didn't know the extent of it.

We didn't really, we really weren't aware of that it was government involvement. They were stepping in to remove and remove mal information. That was my favorite. They came up with, you know, that one? Disinformation, malinformation.

Oh, mal's the bells. Because it's true information that my cause problem, which is fucking almost everything. As soon as you have a problem with mal information, like you are encouraging the creepiest kind of group think

that's available and no one freaked out. Well, a few people freaked out, but not enough. It shouldn't have been bipartisan. It should have been a bipartisan freak out. It should have been left and right, but it got politicized in this really stupid way

where people on the left were pro vaccine and pro pharmaceutical drug company and pro narrative and people on the right were like, "I'm going to take my chances." And those were the cooks and, you know, was this like ideological battle as much as it was a public health crisis.

The censorship was bad. It was very bad. Real bad. But I'll tell you what made me think people were going to go into the street with pitchforks, was when the government told everybody, "Stay at home."

That wasn't hidden. That wasn't behind the scenes the stuff you're talking about. They said, "Stay in your, they didn't say,

They didn't say, "We recommend you get this vaccine. "We recommend you wear this mask." They said, "Stay in your house."

“When they had that first order came down,”

I was like, "People are just going to be outraged. "People are going to protest and when they didn't, "that's what dismayed me personally." And I'll tell you why. Because when you think about civil and individual rights,

first amendment, the right to free speech, the assembly.

That was passed and adopted by the states in 1791. What's the first amendment intended to do? It's a restrict government from infringing on those rights. You think life was easy in 1791? What do you think life was like in 1791?

Think it was easy. Think it was all honky dory. Life in 1791 was brutal! Brutal! You would talk about disease, pestilence,

famine, war. You want to talk about a life that is no electricity, no running water, no suit, nothing. And that amendment was passed for times that are more brutal than that. And here comes a virus. And every right you have is basically taken away.

And Americans are like, "Take it!"

Take it away! That is what outrage me because look. What's the whole point of this country? What is America born out of? In my view. It's born out of the idea that every other government that preceded it,

got it wrong in the following sense. Your life should not be dictated by a king or a dictator or a polyburo or a central authority. It's the idea that you are born with an alienable rights.

“You should be able to choose your destiny, including what risks you want to take.”

Individual rights come with risks. Letting Joe Rogan say what he wants on this podcast comes with risks. Letting you practice what religion you want, assemble with who you want, especially in Austin. Very interesting time yesterday. That comes with risks. Let me tell you.

A lot of risks.

But the greater risk is always seeding that right to the government because once you do,

you don't get it back often. And so yes, there was that hidden stuff you talked about. And that was bad. Don't get me wrong. That was bad stuff. That was really, really bad. But the stuff they did in the open to me and some ways was even worse.

And I hope that there's a lesson that folks learned from that because let me tell you something. Even if you love every vaccine out there, you listen to this. You love every vaccine. You love every mask. Great.

I support every Americans right. You're 17. You're 18. You're totally healthy. No comorbidities. And you want to get a vaccine a day where 70 masks and living your basement in a self-imposed day at home order.

This America, I support your right to do all fight for your right to do that. And you're 90 and you're a war veteran. And you want to go to the, and you have 16 comorbidities. And you want to go to the coffee shop with no vaccine and no mask.

“You should be free to do that because that's America too.”

That's freedom also. Just like you can bullrod. And if you don't stand up for that right now. The day comes when there's something a medical product you don't want. The government says you have to get because trust me, it is so much cheaper.

To lobby to get a medical product required than it is to market to get people to get it. Oh, they've learned that lesson. That's why there's so much lobbying to get mandates, to get rid of exemptions across the country that you don't want. And you can't get a job.

And you can't go to school. And you can't live your house. The more good are the rest of your rights. The useless. That's why medical liberty truly is a fundamental right.

I'm off my high horse. No, it's a great high horse. I was an awesome rent. You're absolutely 100% on the money. And it's such an important thing to get out there. To get people to understand that you,

it's such a natural human inclination to, when you're in a place of power of control, any form of government, you want more control. And it's just natural. And what you're talking about when you lose rights,

you very rarely get him back. That was so on display in California with the COVID regulations, because they had everybody locked down way past where they had to. A friend of mine's brother worked in one of the COVID, some government office,

when they were considering the closing of outdoor dining. And he brought up, but there's no transmission related to outdoor dining. And the woman who was in charge said yes, but it's all about the optics. So she was willing to with a wave of her magic wand,

shut down outdoor dining for a bunch of small family businesses that were probably barely staying alive after COVID.

of Los Angeles restaurants went under during COVID. That's fucking bananas.

And so they finally get outdoor dining.

“Like, okay, what could kind of pay the bills this month?”

And then they shut down outdoor dining for optics. So this kind of desire to just put it foot down, control people, keep a boot on their neck. It's normal, even if it doesn't make sense. Everybody knows that from high school.

Everybody knows that from, I mean, the Stanford prison experiments. People like to control people. They enjoy it. And when they get a place like becoming the mayor, or becoming the governor, and being able to tell people,

"Oh, you ought to listen to me!" I've got rule. Everyone stay inside, be scared. Fucking California, Garcetti literally had a campaign that said, snitches get rewards.

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Well, when the government gets it wrong, they always always double down.

Because that's the problem with the mandates. Once they've acquired it, they have taken a position and then to admit that wrong, often with government ends up saying, "Oh, well, we're the CDC." If we admit we're wrong about this, that's going to hurt our ability to influence a public. And that's more important than admitting we're wrong on this or correcting course.

Because our legitimacy, our ability to influence a public is so important. We have to, you know, we can't admit we're wrong.

“That's what Bobby's doing right now when some of these things is,”

is, you know, some of the stuff like New Autism page on the CDC website, for example, is contrary to anything I've ever seen come out of the federal health authorities today. But yes, it's disturbing, and it's why government should, no public health authority, should ever be able to tell you and infringe on your rights. They should be able to recommend recommend like crazy, but never do it.

That is the normal course of how tyranny dictators, bullies, thugs operate. First, they tell you what to do. You don't listen, play a little pressure. You don't listen, and they mandate. You still don't listen, he censored you.

Still, take way more of your rights. That is the normal progression throughout history. And we saw it happen in front of our eyes, which is why it should be a line in the sand.

Federal health authorities, state health authorities, she'll be able to recommend and encourage, never mandate.

Ever. Fauci literally expressed it that way. I'm sure you've heard that recording of this. It wants people realize they can't go to work. They'll drop their ideological bullshit and they'll give vaccinated.

Yeah. Like, he's essentially telling them, you're going to make people's life hell, and they'll do what you want them to do. Not they will have free will, they will have the ability to choose. No, no, no.

You will make them do what you want. Yeah. Who wants a government that persuades you on the merits? Forget that. But imagine that that's that is something that someone set out loud.

But but but but but but that. I don't think that was thought you was saying is anything. Thought you everything in my view that you saw during COVID is not like some giant leap. Um, into some new it territory. To me, it's just another natural step in progression from where we've gone over the last 40 years of vaccines.

Fauci saying that is no different than school mandates right now. Right. To get children. Most states have 45 states have basically checked the box exemption to send your kids to school.

They're trying to eliminate exemptions, right.

Um, clearly they're able to persuade most parents on the merits, but yet they can't take it. They can't take that a two, three, four percent just will not take these products. And, and I, you know, and I'll tell you about their most of these folks are. They're the folks who really need the exemptions because, you know, most people who don't choose to take child of vaccines. They don't typically just wake up in the side to do that for fun.

“Not many people wake up when they go, you know what I'm going to do today?”

Um, I'm going to take a socially ostracizing position them. I get my kids kicked out of school. Me throwing out of my job. My friends call me an anti this and anti that, you know, you name it. All the horribles that come with not vaccinating.

No, most people don't vaccinate. Don't vaccinate because they've had a very, very personal or or or negative experience with these products. They are one of their kids or one of the fan members or they've learned stuff they cannot learn about them, okay? They have a user of very good reason not to. And yet, um, as you saw during COVID, it's not about in many respects.

The medicine to the examples you gave. It's about they cannot stand that somebody is not agreeing with their beliefs. They cannot extend the exceptions. Those who stand up say, no, I've come to a different medical conclusion. They can't let that exist.

Right. That, that is what it is. It, it, and it happens for people regardless of their religious status. It's a weird thing. It's like, it is like a religion. I mean, which is why I'm so glad you wrote your book that way because I think there's these natural patterns of group think and of just just complying that people automatically fall into.

“It's very easy. That's why people can get people to join cults. That's why people are part of like weird Christians sex.”

Like, wait, what do you guys do? Who's the guy? Who's the head guy? This guy? And he gets to marry everybody, but what? Well, that's what happened. It's normal. It's a normal thing. And if you scale it outward, it goes to a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff that people just have these like climate changes of religion right now.

Like, there's certain people that if you confront them with, like, the actual, the ones that are willing to question the narrative that a legitimate client signed to us, they'll tell you. Like, it is so complicated to figure out what is causing the changes in the earth's climate, warmth and cold.

And the fact that it's never been static, ever in human history, never before humans, never billions of years.

It's done this crazy thing. It involves the precision of the equinoxes and the fucking polar vortex. And it's a lot of, and then also stuff we burn that too. But like, what percentage is what, but it doesn't matter. You can't have that conversation. It's like you questioning, you know, whatever Messiah this person believes in. They'll just lock down and climate changes. It's not, not one climate change prediction of doom has been accurate. Not one, not even in the ballpark.

You remember the fucking Al Gore movie? We're supposed to be dead. And meanwhile, they're all buying fucking ocean front houses in Maui. You know, get out of here. Shut the fuck up. This is another thing. This is another thing. Like, yeah, we shouldn't pollute. Yeah, we shouldn't release particulates in the atmosphere. Yeah, we should have clean energy. Yeah, but also, you guys are crooks. You guys are bunch of crooks that are making money off of this idea that you're forcing down everybody's throat

that everybody's got a green new deal and everybody's got to do renewable this renewable. And then who's got money invested in all this stuff? A bunch of people who are pushing it. And it's a fucking scam. Just like so many of these things are fucking scams. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be aware of the damage that we're doing to be earth. We should probably stop overfishing the ocean.

“We should probably stop dumping shit into the rivers of 100%. You know, who used to go to court for that?”

Bob. Are you kidding me? Are you fucking cranks? The guy who is like cleaning up the East River. That's Bobby Kennedy Jr. He was the guy. And an easy way to identify that somebody is not really coming at you with science and they're coming at you with belief religion. Yes. He is exactly what you just said, which is they're not willing to debate. They're not willing to discuss it. They're not willing to engage because that is antithetical to the scientific method.

The whole idea is it's never settled. The whole idea is you push the fringes, you push new theories, you push new ideas.

Where would science be if you said this is it? Of course, that is the whole notion of it. Dispassionately looking at it over and over and over and seeing what more you can learn. And the moment somebody says, no, we need to stop. You can't discuss. You can't debate that. That's when you know you're dealing with religion, not science.

The left wing politics, whatever it is, just figure out whatever it is, right wing politics. Group think in academia is also hierarchical. There's tears. And you got to agree with everybody that's above you. You want to get tenure, you want to progress, you want to get grants, it's got to be, you guys got to be in line on all this shit. And he's like, anybody thinks out of the box is ruthlessly attacked. And even when they turn out to be correct, no one apologizes. No, they are reluctantly agreed that the person was initially correct, but they'll destroy their career if they can. He's like the pissing matches are horrifying.

And these are the people that are in charge of telling you what's real in the world. They're just like everybody else.

They have ego and there's a fucking social scramble going on at all times. And people are playing succession and game of thrones. It's like the reality is not what you're being told in the news.

What you're being told in the news is a narrative. And when the news has a giant chunk of their money for advertising, it's paid by pharmaceutical drug companies. And they never criticize him. You're like, this is wild. This is wild. This is America in 2026.

“And the only way you can find out what's kind of real is on the internet.”

Yes. And also when it comes to censorship, if I said some totally crazy stupid thing about you, that was totally untrue. Right, ignore it. I said that by government they ignore it. When do they censor? They censor when it's true because that's when they're scared. Right. If you start talking about the government being lizard people, nobody's gonna know. Nobody cares. Nobody comes for you. They're all shape shifters, nobody cares. But when you start talking about something that's true, that's when it hurts. That's when they, that's what they need to suppress.

You think they need to suppress stuff about, I don't know, a certain island with death.

Where if it's not true? No. But if it is true, that's when it gets scary. And that's when you need suppression. And also I'll note, I went to Berkeley for law school. So I'm familiar with a little bit of what you're just talking about. Yeah, I'm not experiencing it. It was two decades ago. It was going strong. That's been strong about them, but I feel like it was much more reasonable.

Like I used to love San Francisco back then. It was a great town to visit. They were smart. They were cool. They were laid back. People like to drink. But they were fun. They, they, they, they, they we seem like a smarter LA that got out of show business.

San Francisco, Berkeley. Yeah, especially.

We're two different things. I completely agree. And even in, I mean, if, let's go outside the bubble of Berkeley from 20 years ago,

“look back over 20 years ago, who was fighting for civil individual rights?”

It was the left. ACLU. Think about Scokiel in a way, right? Fighting for the new Nazis, being able to march through a Jewish town to say what they want. Who fought that case? Who protected their right to say that? Democrats, ACLU, liberal lawyers and liberal judges.

And they said protecting their right to say the things they're saying is despicable. It's horrible. We might find it. Protects all our right to free speech. Could you imagine those same folks today? Bring in that case and deciding that way? No way. And what's stunning is that if you asked anybody alive, then, if you had ultimate access to information,

literally you could pick up your phone and ask it any question about anything and get information instantaneously, would people be more or less informed? You would say, well, certainly they'll be more informed, so they'll be more understanding of the value of free speech. I don't know more about that, really, and what a brave stance they took to allow the KKK to march. And how it just shows intellectual superiority, the way to beat a bad idea is not to silence it,

is to argue with a much better idea. But you would think by 2026, oh, they'll be way better. This would be a super advanced society of flying cars. No. No. No. It's more ideologically captured, more wrapped up in the algorithm,

“which I think is probably at least 50% fake.”

50% is a bunch of bots tweeting a bunch of shit that they don't even believe. They're just trying to rally people up and stir people up and push certain narratives. And then people are locked into it 12 hours a day, so they're really crazy. And no one's considering things like the import, well, let's go back to old cases and look at why they did that. And it was like, no, everybody's like captured with whatever the fuck is on TikTok today.

What's the latest stupid thing you're supposed to be paying attention to?

Social media and the scrolling through those videos, which is what you're described in that thing, is so troubling.

First of all, my understanding is that they just show you stuff that confirms what you already believe,

“because that's what you want to see. You want to see the things that you already agree with.”

So you just get this credible confirmation bias that happens, which is antithetical to thinking critically, to really opening your mind to it. And then you end up, you know, without, because without actually understanding both sides of an argument, without really understanding it. I mean, look, I understand the stuff about vaccines that I know which one stop transmission. And I know which ones don't, right? And I don't have to live in the world the believing, for example, they all do. I know how much death there was before each vaccine, and I know, so I don't have to say,

"Didn't ever save any life?" And I don't have to say, "Millions would die. I just, the data is the data." Right? And, but you know, if all you're getting as one view point all the time, you're not, you get this terrible confirmation bias. And you see this recent study that I just read the, that the abstract, so I didn't delve into it.

But apparently, watching souls from media reduces your IQ over time, you know, just doing all of that scrolling.

That's, that's really scary when you think about our current generation. Yeah, imagine if it could make you smarter, how many more people would be interested in doing it? Right? Like, if there's a thing, if you could just stare at your phone for a few hours a day and you get significantly smarter. Yeah, it's a 10-point jump in IQ. You know, my wife calls her Wi-Fi at her house.

Well, if you found the Wi-Fi, it's called Read a Book.

“Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, that's funny. And then you hear things like you should.”

And have Wi-Fi in your house, because all the signals flying around are bad for you. Like, how bad? Are you sure? Like, what is that? Like, how long have we been doing the Wi-Fi thing?

A decade, two decades, three decades?

I mean, on the course of the length of humanity, that's not very long. That's not very long. I mean, look, I hope Wi-Fi's not killing us. I really do. It's so convenient. Look at most of most of us, and obviously, most things that will just kill you get identified. Right.

It's not the things that kill you immediately that are a problem, typically, because they kill you. And so, you know, it's the things that that cause slow issues on going issues. And we know folks who work on high power lines of higher far-high rates of cancer.

“So that you have to study or flex that, for example.”

For example, I mean, I mean, I mean. For the iPod's bad for you, you know what I mean? If AirPods are bad in your ears, imagine being next to those power lines, what does that do to you? I don't want to go to job down this rabbit hole because it's not my area per se. But for the whole length of humanity, right?

When you think of the spectrum, right? We were pretty much only exposed to natural light, which is a very narrow light, narrow band of the spectrum, okay? Right? When you think of waves, so as you go down on the left side of the spectrum, the waves get longer, like amraves, really long. Where amraves, microwaves, natural light, and then above that, you get x-rays, cosmic rays. And then anything above natural light, they say, "Oh, it's really bad, that's just gonna mess you up."

And stuff below natural light, they say, "Well, as long as it doesn't heat up yourselves, that's typically the standard our government uses, it's safe." So as long as not heating yourself, but that's not, that's a very old standard, but it's still the one in effect today. So in any event, when you think about microwaves, they sit stay away from even those below natural light. There's, you know, what is the cumulative effect of being, if you put your Wi-Fi around under your bed every night, your whole life, what is the effect?

There are numerous studies that show that it does have certain effects, but anyway, it's not worth going down that road, but yeah. But it might just be minor, or it might be cumulative, right? Yeah, and then now about cell phone signals. You can't even stop those. They're around you all the time. Yeah. I mean, if you can face time someone in New Zealand right now, from your phone, clearly something's going on in the air, I'll put it this way.

Every environmental insult has the potential to cause some kind of dysregulation in your body. Whether it's microplastics, whether it's you name it, okay? And the precautionary principle would indicate that until you know it's safe, the onus is on those who want to expose you to it to prove to you it is, right? It shouldn't be the other way around. I don't think anybody has to prove to you that Wi-Fi is not safe to say, you know what?

Based on the precautionary principle, I'm just going to turn off the Wi-Fi every night at my house, because I don't know. Like that doesn't seem unreasonable to me, because humans have been exposed to it forever. I've not seen the studies evaluate that it doesn't cause an issue or large robot studies. And so, you know, but obviously, I think what I just said, some people might hear and go, well that sounds crazy. Why?

Why would it be crazy if we found out that there's a particular frequency that's bad for your memory or bad for your brain and that we're using it to broadcast something?

Yeah, except that I never think about harms the way you just said it, because that would indicate that we have to find out what harms it causes.

Right? To me, when I go into a car dealership, for example, I walk in and the salesman says, all right, this car, okay? And I say, well, is it safe? And the car dealership says to me, prove to me it's not safe. And I say, well, what do you mean? Well, you can't prove it. You got to take this car.

“Oh, that's how that scenes work. That's how I lie.”

And that is, that is become a little bit of the, depending on the mostly for vaccines, but a little bit for some of these other products, where it's like, you got to prove it's not safe. No, I don't have to prove it's not safe. Fine, this car, you prove to me it's not. You prove to me this vaccine causes harm, or are you better take it? That's the way it's approached a little bit like that Wi-Fi and with all with 5G and the LTE and all that stuff. It's almost like you prove to me that doing this all day is going to cause Braise cancer or else you're a cook.

No, why don't you show me the study shows it doesn't do that?

That's the way it should work with products and products safety.

That makes sense. That's very reasonable. Again, I don't know. I'm not saying that it does. But what I'm saying is there's been things that human beings did and they found it was really bad for you. We talked about it a few times, but those LTEs, they used to test the X-ray machines with their hands. And no one told them, no one told them that X-rays can give you cancer and fuck you up.

And these poor LTEs every day when they would show up at the medical office, they would put their hand in the X-ray machine to make sure it worked. And then you see their hands next to each other and it's horrifying. They got horrible lesions on their hands and it's like it's really creepy. They X-ray pregnant women, it's all the 70s. Until the 70s, they were X-raying pregnant women.

Not with the X-rays of today that are far less radiation exposure.

“The X-rays of the 70s, which is a lot, they gave the, I believe the Nobel Prize.”

I'm not, I'm pretty sure about this for the lobotomy. Yeah, I'm not mistaken. I think they did, I think they did. I think they did. Find that out. Jamie put, put that into our sponsor complexity. The Nobel Prize, Peter Burke told me about the origins of it and I was like, wait, what?

It was a guy who made dynamite. Dynamite. And there was a false story about his death and in the newspaper, they called him the Merchant of Death. And he realized it and he was like, oh shit, I got to change my PR. I got to change my image.

And so he came up with the Nobel Prize. Instead of awarding this prestigious prize. And instead of him being connected with blowing people up with dynamite, he became connected with the most prestigious prize. And all of medicine and all of government and the piece, the Nobel Peace Prize. It's pretty crazy.

It's amazing when you have money, how you can influence the world to things certain things about in his instance, him and other certain products.

Yes, absolutely. But what's really stunning is you're also allowed to influence the people that actually deliver the news. Which is, you know, that's the crazy one. Like, Cali means talked about that. Like, they're advertising not because they want to sell their products with the advertising that they're putting on the air.

They're doing that too. But they're also ensuring that this steady stream of revenue that's going to these networks, they won't be opening up any lines of ink. Investigation into the vaccine injuries. It's not going to happen. You're not going to see a giant CNN piece about COVID-19 vaccine injuries.

It's not happening. It's not happening. You know, you're not going to hear much about anything. It's going to be, it has to be a big fucking story where they have to say it. Well, they just mentioned a judgment real quick.

And then move on. Moving on. The rest mutant poll.

“I don't remember this one found that I believe one in four.”

And I'm not, I think that's right. But I'm not sure 100% people said they believe they knew somebody that died of COVID vaccine or knew somebody that died of COVID vaccine. When you have that many people with that, with that lived experience. And yet the mainstream media, as you just said, was still able to continue to push the narrative around COVID vaccines the way they did. I don't know about price.

Wow. Nobel Prize-related lobotomy refers to 1949 Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine. Awarded to Antonio Agas Moniz, a Portuguese neurologist for developing the prefrontal lobotomy. I believe that continued until the 60s, by the way. Yeah, imagine that he got that prize in 49.

They're like, good job. Meaning the medical profession as a student is 60s when the measles vaccines rolling out. Yeah, still doing this, Bobo. I think they stopped lobotomy since 67. He developed something called a loop codomy, which was slightly different.

What was this? It's also called the leukotomy. Yeah. So that was just the Freeman. That's the guy that I think they called him even Dr. Death or something.

Oh, for he did like, he did a ton of lobotomy all over the country. Unfortunately today, you don't need a lobotomy apparently to have a lobotomy. Just spend a lot of time with social media and get your information of certain places. It's so bad. Seems to be, you can maybe end up in the same place.

It's just hard to recommend a certain amount of it. It's like how much Twinkie should eat a day. I don't mind if you Twinkies, but if you're eating Twinkies all day long, you're going to be fucked up, man.

“And that's how I feel about like social media interactions.”

But I do think it's an important way to distribute information. If you're a, say if you're working for some corporation, you know, something fucked up is going on and you could put it up on Twitter and with, with details and facts and people could look into it and you could open up a line of reporters and investigative journalists that are going to find this expose it.

And you could really break a story that is like, good for everybody. Like, having a way to communicate ideas like that is fantastic. Everything else? Like, all the shit that people do back and forth, you're just rotting your brain out and we're all guilty of it. Well, if you're on it, I mean, during the COVID pandemic,

when all of these government overreaches were occurring, but for the existence of social media, you know, podcasts like yours and other alternative platforms, right? The information and many respects wouldn't come out. If you didn't have Peter McCullon,

Robert Malone on and if Fox and some just that little portion of the, I guess, more traditional media, sir, wasn't willing for a time period to have folks on. I mean, let's trust him. When I was starting to be vaccine related work at decade ago,

and I never thought a single outlet, whether it's Fox or CNN,

and whatever have me on, right? They had me on numerous times until, you know, vaccines kind of like, all right, let's not touch that again. Was this during, this was during the Biden administration, and I think part of that was because it was a point of contention between the right and the left,

right? It was the right opposing the draconian measures that the left to is in power. And we got to get the right back in power, because we're all about freedom.

“Now, so I think there was a little bit of that going on there, right?”

For sure, there was some of that going on, as you pointed out, I believe in the past, when Trump was promoting the vaccine, we're not taking that vaccine. And in the moment, Biden was like, we're taking the vaccine. So we're just saying it.

Why would you trust him or whatever his vaccine is like that? It's so crazy. How many people are fake? I mean, if Trump came out tomorrow and said everybody should get every vaccine out there, I, you know, see what would happen.

I don't know. That's the way it would stop saying it. Yeah, if he really got into trans kids, they put a band to it immediately. Yeah, it's weird to watch.

We're to watch us so divided in at each other's throats. And I really do think that a giant percentage of the uptick in the craziness is just social media. I don't think people are designed for it. I just thank God, Elon bought Twitter because if he didn't,

we would not have the kind of access to the actual truth or the real data. It would all be suppressed.

You would never find out about it.

How would you know about these studies? No one's going to, you're not going to go scouring through journals. You need it if you do. What are you going to do? You're going to get on a rumble and talk about it?

It's probably the only way you can. And if anybody from rumble tries to share that on a Twitter, they'll get banned. So it's like, we were in a real pickle. It was a bad spot.

Yeah. And it was just a few years ago. Yeah, it's just nuts. We could have gone a very different direction. They were using analogy when they remember the airlines,

you know, because CDC required masks on planes. Yeah. When that got struck down by the courts. Okay. A number of airlines said we're going to keep our mass mandate.

I don't know if you remember that. You know, they proudly came out. The CO said, we're going to keep it. Half of them said they're going to keep it. The other half immediately lifted the mass mandate on planes.

And those that decided to keep it, they dropped it within a day or two.

“I think or something like that really rapidly.”

Because economically they were losing business. Right. And I think that that changed the central gravity on that issue. I think Elon buying Twitter, X.

Basically sent change the central gravity on censorship,

but by without that, they might have all just kept going even in the worst direction. And they saw they were losing market share to X once he bought it. And he didn't have censorship. I think that conformed their conduct. Well, it was also, it was indicative of how people actually felt

versus what was suppressed. Like when you realize that there's, well, if you're seeing like how people identifying as non-binary and trans dropped off like right after purchase of Twitter,

And you can criticize and people could put up memes.

And they can call it a mental illness again.

“And then also, never, it was like, hey, what are we supporting?”

Men with pinuses and the women's room? Like, did we get hypnotized? Like, what the fuck happened? And now you're seeing even prestigious mainstream media publications. Talking about the dangers of gender transition for young kids.

Wow. Okay, so what happened? What happened? What happened was Elon bought Twitter. And people were out to actually accurately gauge what people

were willing to tolerate and what they actually want. Versus what's being shoved down everybody's throats with censorship and with mainstream media narratives. They just keep piping back and forth pretending everybody agrees with them. That's one piece of it.

They're also, by the way, a lot of the hostels and doctors are getting sued. Right. That's very good. And right, that's very good. On this.

In fact, you know, we especially have to that first ruling.

Right. We have, you know, um. And I can't talk about it. But it's a very, very troubling. Well, there matters.

“One, which includes suicide and hiding it from parents.”

Yeah. School districts hide, I mean, it's really troubling stuff. Do you have children? Yeah, I do. I do too.

And one of the things you realize if you have children is that they are very malleable and they want to fit in and they are subject to social contagions. And that social contagion can be dressing up golf. It could be like whatever it is.

Like they're want to fit in. Yeah. And they're experimenting. Their kids. And if you just decide, oh, you're a boy.

And then you bring that kid to it. And you're giving them all this positive attention. And all you're giving them all this positive feedback. And then you go to school. I'm trans now and everyone says you're brave.

Like for awkward kids, that is absolutely enticing. Yeah.

“And not only that, they do it in clusters.”

Like Abigail Schrier is written about this. So this is a lot of these girls have autism and a lot of these girls. They're socially awkward and they're very uncomfortable with their body. And they're going to puberty which kind of freaks them out already. Freaks out any girl.

Yeah. And then something comes along like this. And now you've been taken to a doctor and had your breast removed in your age of 15. That's fucking crazy.

And to say anything in opposition to that. Somehow became you're a bigot or you're a Nazi or you're transphobic. This is crazy talk. Like you're talking about very malleable children doing something. You can't even get a fucking tattoo of your 15.

Why can you get your breast removed? That's nuts. Unfortunately, it became a very big business. The number of centers in America that perform these surgeries exploded. And so with that explosion, you need clients.

Like every business. It needs to feed. Right. That business model. Right.

And so that is so evil. It's so creepy to think that people are willing to talk people into that just for money. But they've done it with so many other things. It's not, it's not impossible to believe that it's true. It's scary.

A lot of times, if you follow the money trail, you can see how things develop. Or they go. It often helps, you know, puts in perspective. Look, Pete, rare is the person that says, I'm evil. I'm bad.

I mean, people find a way to justify things. They find a way to excuse them. And you know, find, you know, the, well, I'm doing more good than bad. Justification in their minds. Or there's the diffusion of responsibility that comes up being a part of a corporation that's doing something.

Hey, look, I'm just an accountant or hey, I'm just an engineer or hey, you know, I'm doing, I'm not, I don't want the company to move in this direction. However, I do own stock. So that goes up. Especially, especially in public trading companies, which brings us back to the very beginning of this.

Right. Which is, you know, that, that is what happens in those corporations. Should that be a thing? Well, if you could redo the, if you had a magic wand and you could completely redo the economy, would you have the stock market?

I mean, isn't enough that people just buy things, sell things. Your company's worth money because it makes money. Isn't that enough? Why do we have to complicate it? Why, why do we have a stock market?

I don't know if the stock market itself is the problem. I mean, stocks, the whole idea is just to find a, you know, a, a, a more, a efficient way for me to sell you shares in my company. That's all it is. But the underlying problem is not the market in my view. It's not the existence of the stock market.

It's the government intervening into the, no market forces in a way that do not result in a could outcome. And, and all of them that is at the behest of industry. When government, there, there needs to be some government regulation. So that's the problem.

The problem is the corporations have money that can use that money to influence laws, influence government.

I, that, that is a significant part of the problem because look, most regulatory agencies are born out of some crisis when you, right?

Right. So they often start as a great idea. Like people wanting to do good, members of our Congress wanting to do good.

“But then who's got the time money and inclination to influence that regulatory agency?”

You? No. Well, you do have some money. But you, me? Who? No, it's going to be even, even with even, even wealthy folks don't have it.

They don't, they're not going to do it. The very, it's not even the lobbyists per se. It's the very industry they're trying to regulate. They have the money, time, patience and inclination to do that to create the revolving door, right? Right.

Think about like this. Article one of the Constitution creates Congress, right? First article. And what's its purpose, part of purpose is to pass laws, right? How many laws are your, as a past, you think, approximately?

Not 200, okay? Our agencies on the federal government. Do you know how many regulations, which have the same exact way to law, are they passed over here? Can I guess? Yeah.

2000. It depends on the year, but often more. Really? Yes. There's a chart on this that I'm sure is going to be pulled up.

But it's not, but it's something to that effect depends on the year. But somewhere between, let's say, 100, 300, 2000s on the other side. And who are those folks passing? Are they part of the Article one? The Constitutional Branch's Post Pass laws?

They're elected representatives? No. They're unelected bureaucrats. Sitting there and you've named your alphabet agency.

That you've probably never heard of.

That past these regs are the same force of law. And it really has, again, the time and inclination to influence them. It's often the very industry. So it starts as a good idea. But unfortunately, it ends up being with the literature calls.

This is the political science literature. It came out of Harvard and Yale and all those places. They don't want to talk about it today. Captive agencies. Okay?

That's what they often become. CDC, FDA, and very much are to varying degrees depending on what they're doing. Are very much captive agencies when you look closely at it and you understand it. That's true of many other parts of the government. And so we'll particularly people don't know a lot of people don't know.

They haven't gone down these rabbit holes. That a lot of these people, it's a revolving door. They leave the FDA and then they go and work for the pharmaceutical drug companies and they make a lot of money. Yes.

“And just like Julie Gerberding, who was the head of the CDC in the 90s, that oversaw some of the most controversial disputes about what?”

Whose products? Merx vaccine products. Okay? And then after her, you know, she cleaned all that up. We left CDC and went to work for her.

Merx. Making tens of millions of dollars, I believe she's made over the time that she's been there. So she did good. She got rewarded. You think if she didn't do good, she wouldn't get rewarded.

You don't think other people see that in the federal health. Of course they know. They all know. Of course. So it's the golden parachute and everybody's drives for it.

If you can get that post, you can get the top of the food chain over the CDC. Guys, seeing about five years. Then five years, you think about your Lamborghini, got a yacht and your future. It's just, it's cookie. Yeah.

It's cookie that it's legal. Look, I don't know if it's as nefarious to that in the minds of people in public health. Let's put that way. It's, since we're talking on public health officials.

“But I, I think that there, it has a corrupting influence that cannot be detangled from”

the fact that they're human. It will influence that. I don't think it's, it's also a precedent. There's a precedent that's been said with many people before them. So it's something they look forward to.

If you get this job, you will likely get a job like this afterwards. It's a bunch of people have. And so you think about that while you're trying to get that job. It's part of the motivation is financial reward. Absolutely.

Well, there was a, there was a, there's a Pfizer executive who is, serendipitously recorded, specifically saying that. Or something, it's in my, I have the exchange of my book. It's something to the effect of, well, you know, those who are working at the FDA, you know, or, you know, they, they're eventually going to, you know, come work for

industry, so they don't want to, you know, heard industry too much. And the person asking the questions is, well, you think that's bad. He goes, yeah, it's bad for America. You know, but not bad for the companies. That's the problem.

That's exactly right. Well, this is the thing about having an obligation to your shareholders, which brings me back to the whole stock market thing. I know this is a cookie thought.

But I mean, if we never had the stock market in the first place,

and you didn't have an obligation to do shareholders consistently,

Yeah.

If people could just suck except the fact that you own this business,

this person, you make a certain amount of money. Everybody's doing great. Like why have all these people making money just move and stocks around and saying amounts of wealth, manipulating systems to crash stocks and there's, there's people that are like in public

office that say things that aren't necessarily true, that influence the market, that it turns out they were totally wrong. And then you find out that they bet on it. And they made a bunch of money in the stock market. This is crazy.

This is crazy. And it's all true. And it's all legal, which is so fucking bizarre that in a time where we are completely aware that all this stuff is taking place. All right.

Can't put that into three different buckets. Yeah, please. I'll put in three different buckets. There's the bucket of making products. Right.

There are companies that make products. But companies that provide services, including financial services, that can be useful. You need a mortgage if you buy a house. You can't afford it.

And mortgage products are a service that are brought to financial industry.

“And then there's, I think what you're talking about, which is the part of our economy”

that is finance, it's just moving money. It's just moving numbers where they've got high-speed computers that are trying

and micro fractions of a second to beat out the other guy to basically

triage and make money based on that adds no value to our economy. The products and services add value and tutor all everything you see around. They were sitting in right now was made by a company, right? And so, and I'm not aware of a system that has been more efficient at producing products and services that improve the lives of others than the free market system

with some regulation. I'm not aware of it, social doesn't do it, we've seen that in action. Communism does not do it, we've seen that in action. We need to just do it right. Dictators, but so kidding.

So, I wouldn't throw out the whole system, as well I'm saying. What I'm saying is that-- I'm not saying that. Yeah, I'm saying that that part of it's good now. When you break the alignment of Mark of economic self-interest of the companies,

the market interests, to whatever it is, protect consumers, that's when you're a problem. And that is the idea, or at least they sell it as the idea from a lot of government regulations. Well, the company is not on its own going to do what's right in this instance so we need government to do it. And if government really only stepped in when it was truly needed, it would be good.

It's just, you're right. But the system often breaks when they step in, when they're not needed, sometimes when they step in and have the opposite effect, when they're really just protecting the industry at the expense of consumers, which happens too often. Is the benefit of the stock market-- and this is again nonsense.

I'm not an economist clearly, but if we had never invented it.

The human beings had never come up with this idea, if instead, we just had a free market. What has the stock market, what has publicly traded companies, what has the ability to

“own stock companies and hedge funds and all that stuff?”

What has that done for innovation and for progress and for creating more products? Do you think it's encouraged more products and encouraged more activity in the economy? And we're further ahead than we would have been if no one had invented it? Because it seems like at the very least it's a weird opening for people that just moved money around and had no value and extract enormous amounts of wealth.

So that seems like you've got a hole in your pipe. Why are people that aren't even involved? Why do they get to make all the money on this? What is going on here? You're doing a weird thing that I don't know if you had to do to achieve the same result

that you achieved with a free market, capitalist society that doesn't have a stock market. That just has a bunch of companies making money and everybody doing this stuff they do is like is it a necessity is what I'm asking? Well, outside of my hair expertise, but definitely outside of mine. I'll give you my musings.

Yes, please. This is just my off-the-cuff musings and that's something I actually really want to think about more.

“But so when I think about companies going public, it certainly appears to help drive capital”

to those companies because hedge venture capital funds. A lot of times they're exit strategy. So I'm willing to give you all this, I'm a venture capital. I'm willing to give you all this money to start this company.

It can go public and either venture capital fund can get back X amount of my money.

That's the extra strategy for that investment.

“Now, if there was no efficient market to do that, right?”

Meaning you couldn't just have a publicly traded market where just easy to sell, right? To have this public offering. What would that do to venture capital funds? Well, I mean, would they still invest as much? They might.

Instead, they might just focus on hard money returns. They want companies that really just make money cash on cash versus this immediate bubble of equity inflation that happens when you go public because it's now liquid. The ownership. Right, marketing caps.

I don't know if that answers your question. That's like, well, I don't think it does because, you know, your question was a good one. It's far more sophisticated than what I'd answered because you're saying, what does it contribute to society? Right, I don't think it contributes.

It contributes. I just answered it so narrowly and said, well, it might add some, it might entice venture capitalists. Though I don't know if, I don't even know what I just said is entirely cool. They might still do it anyway because they'll just might do the best thing. Now, what does it add to start all of it have liquid?

I mean, it'd be harder to have like retirement account in the way you have right now to own stock. All right, that would be more difficult to put your money in and buy shares of Coca-Cola. Would you prefer for big corporations to be owned by, you know, certain families, or would you rather than be owned by the public?

“I think you should be allowed to keep your company in your family if you own it.”

Well, you should, well, you certainly can look at yourself on your times. In your times, the family kept controlling, if I, in my understanding. Again, we're outside of my normal area expertise. But the family, my understanding has the controlling of votes in that company, but it's publicly traded as well in their times.

Yeah. I'm not mistaken. I know people that have taken their company public and regretted it. That gets too much shit, deal with too much nonsense afterwards. And then they're like, it wasn't worth it, just for the hassle and the quality of life.

I would have never done it.

No, no, no. I guess it depends what they want. Yeah. I guess it depends what they wanted. But the question is, like, if a bunch of people are making money that aren't contributing,

they're just, like, siphoning money by moving money and run all over the place. Isn't that leaky money? Like, if you don't really contribute anything, you don't provide any value. And you're extracting extreme wealth. Don't you have a leak in the pipe?

It seems like if that money was just being distributed normally, like the buying and selling of goods and services, that would be a much more, like, honest society.

“But would it have the same amount of innovation and would it have the same amount of productivity?”

Or is that productivity not just enhanced by this flood of capital, but also encouraged? So it like stimulates everything. So like having these vampires sucking on the pipe,

like ultimately it does move numbers around and it gets more stuff out there,

and which also encourages innovation. I don't know. I think that there's a gray area between the second and third bucket. So we were probably like products and services, maybe we'll make that one bucket, because those can have value deciding from many of them.

And then there's the extreme, there's like, just like triage nonsense that happens. I put my super computer as close as possible to the, you know, the super change. The stock exchange and so I can like make money on fractions of a fraction. Yeah, that's crazy. And then there's something, then there's like that gray zone and between where there's, you know,

mortgages good, okay, help the American family or achieve their dream voting home. Now, mortgage back securities. Oh, maybe not so good. Mortgages back securities that are double triple sliced into all these trenches. Getting worse, going down that road like there's a degree where you're getting further

further away from the very point of that financial instrument that was that had good. So I think that there is, there's a point that which yeah, no good. But I think it's hard to talk in general is in my mind. Like if you have a specific example, let's go down that road. Well, Bernie made office the best example.

Oh, right. Obviously, everybody had to know something with, there was some shenanigans taking place because the returns were too crazy. But look out how many intelligent people invested money with them because he was so successful. Just my old office in Manhattan when I was used to work at Lathenwalk and just I think three floors above Bernie's office

and a lipstick building.

Okay, but Bernie, pretty straight up stole. Just stole. I mean, that's not, that's not even a thing. Hey, come on, he just, no, no, no, you were just, he just stole money and gave out like fake returns as far as I know.

Yeah, yeah, he had people thinking they were making all this money. Yeah, he's just, he's just a pyramid scheme basically. 100%. That was eventually going to fail. I mean, I don't like he gone for so long.

“Well, I think it fucked up because of the 2008 crisis, right?”

They think he could have kept it going if there wasn't the crash. It wasn't that what did him in?

There's always going to be a dip, so it was only a matter of time.

I mean, he was going to get-- That was a big one, though, and people wanted their money back and he was like, "Yikes." That's incredible. It's an incredible scheme. It's amazing.

But it should even pull that off, frankly. It is crazy. And it is incredible, but it just shows you that this is a weird system that you can pretend to be moving money around, and you don't have any products. But it corrected? It did.

It's a good point, because he did go to jail. He corrected, he went to jail and managed it. He'd become the post-trial of, like, don't you? Don't you fraud, don't you? Tell that.

He became, don't do that. Yeah. It's just--

“It's probably a stupid question because I don't know anything about economics,”

but I was just thinking that, like, couldn't we have the same world and not have that? It wouldn't that be more honest and more beneficial. But it would have to have happened from the beginning.

It would have to be, like, there was never publicly traded companies from the beginning.

All right. Let's think of a company like-- Coca-Cola. You like Coca-Cola? I like a little di-coke every now and then when I want some brain fog.

All right. I don't want a nice taste of my mouth and an ass-pertain of anger. Okay. I don't think of another one. Chevy. Chevy.

Chevy. So I don't know without the ability to raise money in liquid capital markets, which Chevy has grown to what Chevy became, or at least in the speed at which it did, that then revolutionized what a motive and other industries. Probably not.

Maybe not. Yeah, maybe not. Maybe not. But if people were motivated and people were ambitious,

and we always have been, you know, like, if that wasn't a part of our economy,

yeah, I wonder. I bet it has a pretty big impact when you put it that way. You think about something as big as Chevy, you know. But it's just the motivation of money is always going to be there. And if people ignore it because it's inconvenient and doesn't align with their ideology,

you've been captured. And this is why I think what you're talking about all the time is so hard for people that are true believers to swallow. Because it makes you have, you're forced to reformulate your entire world view. If you've been duped that hard by something like the actual data on vaccine efficacy,

and, you know, who's really profiting and why it's set up the way it is, and what the studies really are, when you realize you've been duped that hard, it's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. Absolutely, but I will say this. You don't need to go down a rabbit hole, okay?

Because that happens to a lot of people with vaccines, I've seen. Not the majority, not most, but it happens to somewhere, it's like, oh my goodness. If the government's lying or not telling me the truth about these products, then what can I believe? And, you know, people, some folks can go down to some different alleys.

And I would say that I really, truly, I've not seen anything like vaccines. Vaccines really are in their own bucket because of that immunity.

“That's what I call original send in my book.”

There really is no product, no product that I'm aware of, that operates in this kind of landscape. Like I said, every other product, the market force will, for, to varying degrees with wrinkles, correct for the issues, because there's economic self-interest.

They broke that with vaccines. So we've gone from three shots following the 1986, one or before the first year of age. At the beginning of 2025, you know how many shots it was, that a baby got on or before the first birthday?

To your guess. 72. No, no, no, that's a whole childhood. 29. 29 in the first birthday?

Yes. On or before the first birthday, they went from three to 29 shots, including a new draw. Now, with the recent changes, it's down to 19. And a reason I focus on the first year,

most of the shots in the first six months of life, is that's when the baby is going through really critical stages of, of neurological, immunological development, right? Synapse and think of small babies, okay? And so, um, they're really susceptible to various effects.

Also, babies can't express what's going wrong with them, okay?

you've got a product.

You've gone from three of them in 1986 by the first year.

You're up to 29, beginning of 2025. Now you're at 19 still. And during that period you've gone from under 10% of kids had a chronic health issue in early 1980s, according to the data. You now have over 40% of some data show over 50% of kids having chronic health issues,

often multiple times the rate, okay? And what are those chronic health issues that have exploded to be sure, by the way, any environmental insult can cause disregulation in the body, okay? Including a pharmaceutical product, including vaccines,

but when you look at those chronic diseases that have exploded, almost all of them have an ideology relating to some form of immune system disregulation. Look at asthma, look at a topic issues, look at ticks. Look at ADHD.

Nobody thinks about it this way, but if you look at the public end literature,

“there's immune markers that have gone awry in kids with ADHD, okay?”

So you look at that. Now, I tell you, okay? The lawyers, those who would hold these companies accountable, look at that, and then they would start looking at the data, and I'll show you some of the data shows.

We talked about the Amish earlier, for example, okay? The Amish that I represent in New York, there's three schools, the New York Health Department decided that it doesn't like what the Amish beliefs are. It wants the Amish to adopt their beliefs and abandon their real religious beliefs,

and to give their kids these vaccines. Otherwise, they were going to impose crushing fines on these three Amish schools, three schools, by the way, which means a room, no electricity, a teacher, you know what I mean? On Amish land, they don't take tax money, they pay taxes,

but they refuse to take tax money, taught by Amish teachers. And so, amongst those families of those three schools, there was like 160 or something kids. And what we did is we did a survey, we asked them,

“what health conditions do those kids have?”

Those 160 kids, many of them were already older too, so you would know their health outcomes. And this is all in our core papers, all in a federal document. Anybody can go and read it for themselves, okay? Amongst those children, you would expect to have,

because like one in 10 kids approximately have asthma. You would expect to have like nine cases of asthma. You'd expect to have six cases of this. They have none zero of the chronic health conditions, plaguing kids in America today.

And they're approximately 10 or so studies that have been done. And when I'm bringing this back to my legal point, they're approximately 10 or so studies that have done that compared kids with no exposure, meaning zero vaccines. To kids that if you had one or more vaccines, show the same outcome.

Kids with zero vaccines, almost none of the chronic health issues, that face kids today in America. Kids with one or more vaccines, multiple rates of the chronic health issues, facing kids today. Now, that data all exists.

I put those studies in my book, I need to read them, I even put the omission information. My book's all cited, you can go look at it yourself. If you're out there, some of them are even a puppet. The market could have corrected for that if you could hold those farm

accompanies accountable, but you can't. Is it correct that the only instances of autism they found in omish kids were adopted kids? There are data and some reports that reflect that. But if we, so there are that.

But those are more news reports. If somebody will criticize you by the way, you're going to get criticism and say, "Well, that's not a peer-reviewed study." Well, I had a follow-up question when they'd be clarified. Yeah.

And so we can't move on to what does the peer-reviewed literature show if you want. The follow-up question would be, "Are they even being diagnosed?" So if they're getting omish care and omish teachers and omish, is it possible that there are some kids that are just behaving odd that would be diagnosed?

This is the criticism. Yes. People say, "This is when you hear some mainstream suit talking on television."

Well, there was always someone odd when we were kids.

You know, there's no, there's just the diagnosis is different today.

“That's why it's one in 12 boys at California.”

They're over diagnosing. And I'm like, "No. No. I have friends that have multiple friends that have non-verbal children. That I'd never had that when I was a kid.

That was not normal. That was not a common thing. It was very, very, very rare." The notion that autism is just a better diagnosed. And that's the only reason for the increase is,

I don't know, a better word for it, I'm going to say nonsense. Even if you look at the, because they've changed the DSM5, which is what we're up to, the diagnostic manual. That is the psychiatric manual that has the criteria for diagnosing autism.

But when you even just look at severe autism, just severe autism,

“which California has a very good data on from the 70s and onward into today,”

it's exploded. Okay. So the notion that we just have better diagnosis is not a serious point. But putting that aside, the omnis do go to doctors. Do they go to omnis doctors?

No. They go to regular doctors. The omnis, for example, could even go in a car, they just can't drive a car. Well, so they can go over.

There's different, I should be, I should be clear about that. Just like every religion, there are different, you know, communities. And so there's like old, old line omnis, and there's old line omnis, and so God.

You know, in Christianity and Islam and all different, you know, there's different degrees. A black had Jews and there's no, it's so far. So, in many respects, they do still go.

But, you know, as I was told by one of the main folks, who I interact with, and I've been up there, and I've slept there, and I've interacted with them. He told me, he said, yeah, you know, there are a few that mistake got some vaccines,

and he goes, one of those kids, they just don't act right. He said it to me. But we don't see that with the other kids, and I'll tell you this about the omnis community.

They don't have phones. Not, not, not, not, not, not, you know, or smartphones. They have old school phones, some of them. They don't have TVs.

When they're with their kids, they're with their kids. When they're there at the end of the day, they really are so much more tuned. When I spent time with them and when I went up there,

I mean, it's incredible, you know.

We have a lot, it's a hard thing to experience, maybe for somebody who keeps like,

“maybe the closest thing I think was like,”

those who observe the Sabbath biblically, you know, so they're just, they're just totally locked in. They locked in with their families for a day. Or things like that. And so they're very in tune with their kids.

They know if those kids have health issues. And those kids don't have those issues, but forget the omnis. Go to the rest of the kids and the other studies. They're not omnis studies.

The 10 other studies that I just told you about, one is three pediatric practices that have vaccinated of unvaccinated kids. There are a whole line of studies of nothing to do with the omnis community.

But if you do want to focus on autism, okay? Which is just one potential issue from vaccines, by the way. What you find in the peer-reviewed literature is that 40% to 70% of parents of a child

with autism report, still report, that they believe vaccines cause their child's autism. Okay? 47%. That's after how much billions of dollars

“took try to tell them and gaslight them and convince them”

that it's not autism. No matter how many, which you beat these families, they're just not going to change their lived experience. And what vaccines do they point to?

They often, they point to the vaccines

given in the first six months of life.

When you ask them what vaccines, you think cause your child's autism? They'll say the vaccines given in the first six months of life. And then they'll also point to MMR vaccine, which is given no earlier than one year.

Okay? And so, on behalf of I can, which is the Informed Sinatra, and non-profit that I'll offer represents, we sent a Freedom of Information Act request

before you request. To this CDC and we said, "Hey, your website says vaccines do not cause autism." Great. Please give us the studies that show that have be vaccine,

given three times in the first six months of life, do not cause autism. Please give us the studies that show that Detap vaccine, given three times in the first six months of life,

do not cause autism. Same thing for IPv vaccine for PCV vaccine. And for hit vaccine. Okay? Each one of those vaccines is given three times each

in the first six months of life. 15 injections. Okay? Okay. You say vaccines on cause autism.

These parents are saying these vaccines cause their child autism provide us the studies.

They never gave us the studies.

I sued them in federal court. I didn't go to Texas. I sued them in Southern District of New York. Okay? Not the friendliest territory to bring that kind of lawsuit.

Okay? Days before the hearing, I got a list of 20 studies finally from also from the DOJ, because they represent the CDC.

Okay? Maybe they think I don't read. So I looked at the 20 studies. I've read them. 19 of them have nothing to do with the vaccines

given in the first six months of life. They were all either MMR of studies, or studies of an ingredient that wasn't in those vaccines. One of them was an Institute of Medicine Review

on whether detab vaccine does or does not cause autism because the CDC and HRSA, which is the agency in HHS that fights vaccine injury claims, asked the IOM to look at whether detab causes autism because it remained one of the most commonly claimed injury

still according to them. Okay? And the Institute of Medicine, came back and said, "We can only find one study on detab and autism

and in fact it showed an association between vaccine, detab vaccine and autism, but the IOM threw it out because it said they needed control in it." So they threw out the studies based on various data.

If you know what that is. So I called up the DOJ attorney. This is days before the hearing. And I said, "I got the list of 20 studies."

I said, "Are you sure that you're client, the CDC,

once the settle this case basically

on the basis that these are the studies they rely upon to claim that vaccines don't cause autism? The vaccines in the first six months of life do not cause autism.

“Cause that's what the loss it was about.”

That FOIA request. He wanted to call me back and he said, "Yeah, they want to settle it." I said, "All right, I gave them another chance." Those 20 studies were put into a settlement agreement

between the CDC and I can my client. The DOJ signed it on behalf of the CDC. I signed it on behalf of my client and a federal judge in the Southern District of New York entered it as an order of the court.

In 2019 I believe it was. And there it was. I mean, I done years and years of work fighting with them to try and figure out. Show me the vaccines don't cause autism.

This was the crescendo. This was the end. I mean, when they're back was to the wall, they had nothing. There are no studies.

They could not produce one that showed the vaccines given in the first six months of life to not cause autism.

And here's the thing they left out.

There is one study out there regarding happy vaccines and autism. It's from Gallagher and Goodman out of the University of

“Stony Brooks in the peer review literature.”

And it showed that kids that got happy vaccine versus those that did in the first month of life had three times rate of autism. It's statistically significant. Gallagher Goodman University of Stony Brooks.

It's on PubMed. That is the only study of happy vaccine and autism you will find in peer review literature. If you're going to do it based on the science on the published literature,

that's the only one out there. That detap vaccine studies the only one out there for detap given in the first six months of life. So when this narrative, which you hear all the time on these panels on these new shows,

vaccines do not cause autism. That has been thoroughly debunked. Where's that come from? Vaccines amen. That's why I call my book.

That leads amen. Because live shows were crowds too. But this is what I'm talking about. This is why I wrote the book. I wrote the book because in ten years

that I have litigated 100 200 lawsuits against federal and state health agencies. That I have deposed the world's leading vaccinologists. Including Dr. Stan Plock and you go down the list. And chasing them when they're in a deposition.

When they are back as against the wall in a federal or state lawsuit. And they have no choice but to admit the truth or give the evidence. Put up a shut up. What I have found is that the claims they make about vaccines versus the reality are completely different.

And it is disjuring. When I came into this, I would... Had you told me, yeah, they don't have any studies. It sure vaccines don't cause autism.

First of all, I'd be like, you're crazy.

Get out of here. They tell you that it's thoroughly debunked. thoroughly studied. The most studied thing ever. They have a mountain of science.

Yo, there's a mountain of studies. Yo, big it is. It's so big. And you know what's in top of that mountain? Another mountain of studies.

You know, another mountain. There's so many studies. They're drowning in studies that vaccines don't cause autism. But then when you demand it, not the bull crap that they say on TV,

but you actually demand it. That's the result. And that you could pull it up on the internet, by the way, that court stipulation. It's right there.

You could also hear me depose, Dr. Stanley Plock and the World's Lean of Exynologists. Why I said to him, I said, doctor. You know, and you have this clips on the internet. I said, I said, there's no studies that support

the detail of the zacodautism, right? And he said, and first he said, well, I said, well, what do you think I am concluded? He goes, well, I would assume they said it doesn't. I showed it to him and he goes, oh,

the world's lean of Exynologists. He didn't even know this. It goes, oh, okay, there are no studies. Okay, he goes. So I said, shouldn't you wait until you do?

Shouldn't you wait until you have the studies that show that detail doesn't cause autism?

“To then tell parents that vaccines don't cause autism?”

You know, he said to me, no. No, I don't wait. I don't wait because I have to take into account the health of the child he said. I said, so for that reason, you're willing to tell parents

that vaccines don't cause autism,

He said, absolutely. You can play that clip if you want. It's on the internet. And then I deposed in a case about vaccines and autism. It was about it, Dr. Catherine Edwards,

who is one of the four, I guess leading to vaccination all just in the world. One of the four editors of the medical textbooks on vaccine, which is called "Plock in Vaccines." I deposed her about vaccines and autism.

And I said, do you have a study that shows how B vaccine does going to autism? This was after this court stipulation, the court order I told you about it. She didn't have any for a B for hit.

For the ones I just took the first six months of life. So yes, they say on TV, it's thoroughly debunked, but I'm telling you that is a belief that is not science, that is not fact. It is not based on data.

It is based on pure belief. And they say it just like they say, you know, Jesus Christ is Lord.

“I think they believe actually in vaccines more,”

because they'll kick kids out of school and some archdiocese even, and some other Christian schools far less. Most archdiocese won't. If the kid won't get vaccine.

So I actually think they believe in vaccines more than Jesus than some places, by the way.

What an amazing job of gaslighting and propaganda they've done.

But I just want to, I just got to be clear, because anybody here in this might think that that just sounds crazy. But I implore anybody who heard me say that, pull up the court order yourself.

Look at it yourself. Watch the deposition. Go to PEP Med, see for yourself. Oh, and by the way, do not rely on AI because I've done this fun job with them.

I'm like, do happy vaccines cause autism. It's been thoroughly research, and there's no studies. It's like, okay, great. So how do you, and I say to AI, I go, how do you reach a scientific conclusion?

Well, you use peer-reviewed studies. I go wonderful. So to conclude that happy vaccine does not cause autism and we need peer-reviewed studies. That is correct.

Wonderful. Now please, please, in a list, these studies that show happy vaccine does cause autism. [Clapping] I've had a chatchipity makeup studies.

Literally, happy vaccine does not cause autism. And I'm like, that doesn't exist. Give me the Pup Med number. You are correct. I aimed to provide a valid information, but in this instance,

I fell short. Literally made up a study. I'm not joking. I made up a study. I've had an L-sure.

I've done this for fun with friends. And so I'm like, watch this, watch this.

And finally, I'll get it to admit that the only study is the Gallagher and Goodman study.

That is the only study. I will get it to admit. It takes about, often, 45 minutes to an hour. Really? Yeah.

It takes a while, but it will eventually admit it. And they all do it. Grock does it too, by the way. Grock's better, by the way, better. But it's bad, too.

And they will say, you know, on all of these questions, they will make stuff up. And unless you know, like, I know the universe of studies. I know what's going on. You can't ask you this.

“Do you think that these large language models are programmed with certain truths that they can't fight against?”

Or do you think it's because they're pulling from so much bullshit on the internet? And so many bullshit narratives on the internet from trusted sources that will tell you that vaccines don't cause autism. Like, there's a ton of, you know, major newspapers, major magazines. There's a ton of them that have talked about how it's been thoroughly debunked. And they'll quote doctors and scientists that don't list any specific studies.

But they'll say, we've done exhaustive studies. They've been thoroughly debunked. They'll say that. And they'll print that. So is the AI just pulling from so much bullshit online that it looks through all the noise.

And this is like 89% say vaccines do not cause autism. Therefore it must be true. Or is it programmed to say, hey, this is what you say. Vaccines don't cause autism. You must hold me in very hard, guard.

You've held me out as an HIV. You held me incredibly complex economic questions. And now langs langs langs language model questions. I appreciate the compliments so far on that score. With that said, I mean, I don't know the answer, but I will speculate.

Because I don't know the answer. That I'm going to guess. I'm really guessing. That it might be a mix of some programming. Because Google, for example, you know,

if you go and you search for air and Siri sub-stack, you get pull off its sub-stack. Why?

“How in the world do you get pull off its sub-stack when you search for mine?”

And it blinds like Simon, like on the first page, I don't think it's on the second.

Now, I mean, they fixed that. I don't know. So, some of that-- Is that using Google? That's using Google.

Let's look right now.

Let's do it right now. Let's do it right now. Let's do it.

“Because if you've seen Robert Epstein's work,”

Robert Epstein's been on my podcast a few times. Unfortunately, last name. But he has nothing to do with that. But he has a data scientist. And I don't know what his original background is.

But what he does is he is very vocal about how they're using these coordinated-- It's very curated search results. And through that, especially during election times, they can take a lot of people that are in undecided voters and swing them a very noticeable number.

Like I forgot what the number was. But it's a large percentage, 10%, 20% something like that. So if you Google something about, say, Hillary Clinton, for instance,

during that first election, you would get all these positive articles.

If you Google Trump, you would get all these negative articles. And if you asked it certain things, it would give you things that were completely contrary to that. So you would look at that first. And I think that's you and Paul off it.

It could be. It's fine. Maybe it's fixed at this point. I'm not sure how you're going to wear this because that's-- Just Aaron's series sucks that.

Yeah, just do Aaron's series-- Just do it on Google. But while he's pulling that up, I'll add that. So I might be some of that. Again, I'm on speculation territory.

And then separately-- So it goes right away to me this time. You know what it is? They got Jamie's fucking data. And I know from your metadata.

“If you ask a question, then a word away.”

It might come up differently. It's like what? No, that's what I did. That's what I did. Try Aaron's series injecting freedom substak.

See what happens. It could be the way we search for it. See that shows up different. Oh, well, when you add words, it really fucks up all that. Yeah, but I don't see Paul off it in there.

I don't see Paul off it in there. Have you talked about this perfectly before? No, never. Oh, too bad. No, I just did it.

I just happened-- This was actually literally just a few days ago. Well, I think-- But one of the things that Robert Epstein, because of being-- He's been on my podcast.

I've been on multiple podcasts. He's been talking about the dangers of these curated search engines. And how it's-- It's essentially election rigging. Like you're manipulating a statistically significant number of people

to one side of the other, and you could do it by curating search engines.

Well, the experiment we just did might reflect that my first theory is--

It might be less of that, right? Because look, there it is. It happens. That's why I said, I have no idea. I'm speculating.

But it could be-- It could be also your own algorithm, because maybe you were searching for Paul Offit. Maybe you had Google Paul Offit's full of shit, just before that.

I don't need to Google that. That's not-- I don't need to have-- I don't know when they've added this, but they definitely added on the screen

what they call personalization for these results. Uh-huh. Results are personalized. Try without personalization. That could have something to do with it.

Interesting. Let's try without personalization. Let's see if it changes. Well, I'm already done with the front row.

Oh, you already put Paul Offit in there.

So if you do without personalization, it doesn't delete the prior one. Interesting. Personalized. It knows you're a right thing.

Right thing. I don't know how long time ago. But it knows you're a radical. But I would speculate that the probably bigger component is the--

Who's got-- again, it comes back to-- Who's got the money to understand how these AI algorithms and worth and to maybe put the stuff out there that it's going to most likely read from. I mean, when you do AI, you can get that--

I see that like crazy scroll of all things that's looking at, right? Right. So if I've got-- If I am a pharma company,

and I've got a multi-billing dollar budget every year to influence and to market and so forth, you know, I'm going to deploy that and in the way that's probably the most effective. One of the things I probably would do

is maybe do the things I would influence the results on AI. Potentially. Yeah, I would do. But especially if there's no regulations,

that's the weird thing about curating search engines. If it's like your search engine, you can kind of do whatever you want. Especially if your company--

Like, it wasn't like one of the major tech companies after Donald Trump won in 2016 that had meeting that we really-- we can't let this happen again. Was that Facebook or Google?

Do you remember Jamie? Do you remember it was like very famous

“that people were like, "What are you talking about?”

You-- What? What? How can you say that? How can you even say that? Even if you're right.

Yeah. Like the idea that you can somehow other stop someone from being elected if the public wants that person to be elected because you disagree with it is kind of a crazy thing

to say out loud. Well, you know, I'm thinking more about your question. So when we found that thing with Paul Offit-- We found that thing with Paul Offit a few days ago.

My social media manager, my-- I've got a lot of folks in my law firm. And we have somebody who does like Google Ad word stuff and SEO stuff. And then we have another guy who does the web related stuff.

and maybe with my little measly budget it had that effect. And so Matt-- So if that would go to my second point

“that with enough doll and who cares about--”

I mean, I don't think farmer cares about myself than trust me. They're not scared of myself. Well, I don't know about that because even if you don't have a ton of subscribers

it's still out there. And all it takes is one podcast appearance like this one. And people go there. And then all it takes is one investigative reporter

to talk about it, to get a-- It's a weird time for-- All right. Well, let's see if two weeks from now it goes back.

Yeah, they'll never put it back.

They'll never put it back. But if you guys did do something about it, that does make sense. The correct-- And you compare it with--

Well, no, I think that, you know, they had brought up doing like keywords and stuff like that because there was some emails about, I remember trying to fix it. Maze that.

It looks like it did. Well, I don't want that smoke. You know, then-- Maybe it's, you know, it just kind of-- They just need to be shine light on it.

It's the best disinfection, sunlight. I just don't like the idea of curated search engines. It's really spooky. It's no different to me than curating information on social media platforms based on whatever you're

ideology is. It's like, I don't think you should be able to do that. In terms of, like, I don't think the company should be able to tell you, you can't see certain things. And YouTube was terrible about that during the pandemic.

All the things that turned out to be true could have got you banned from YouTube. The lab leak theory kicked off. You know, the fact that the vaccines-- Even if you get vaccinated, you're still--

You still can catch COVID.

“Remember that was a breakthrough infection.”

It was extremely rare. It's extremely rare breakthrough infection. Never heard of it. Yeah. And now it's everybody.

Literally everybody. And then it became this weird fucking-- Everybody did these weird mental gymnastics where they started repeating, oh, but it stops hospitalization and death.

And like, what, what are you talking about?

You never said that before.

You are saying that they were saying it stops hospitalization and death. And you don't even have anything to gain here. You just don't want to be wrong about your decision to get injected and to promote it.

Which is nuts. It's like, people are doing the man's work for the man. They've signed up as volunteers in the propaganda army. And shaming all the people that didn't go along with it.

And never apologizing. No one wants to apologize for calling people play grats and telling people that they should have their children taken away from them. Nuddish, weird, dystopian shit.

They don't realize that they are creating more vaccine hesitancy with that kind of conduct than anything that you and I could do on this podcast. And they say, you know the CDC webpage on vaccines and autism and now have been updated.

And it says now that there's effectively no studies to show the vaccines in the first six months of life, do not cause autism. And now says that.

And that the CDC has misled the public

on that score. And people trash the mainstream media trash Bobby for that while instead of celebrating it as an opportunity to correct course of transparency.

“Honestly, people are more likely to trust”

our federal health agencies when they're honest, when they're apologizing, when they're willing to admit mistakes. They're not there yet, that unfortunately. No, because it's still a part of their political ideology.

It's a part of their plan. And they don't even think about it. They don't look into it. They don't read any studies. They don't read any synopsis of any studies.

They just go full bore ahead. It's been thoroughly debunked. And they'll argue with you. It's been thoroughly debunked to solve nonsense. You're reading the positions I've taken

of vaccineologists, pediatricians, infectious disease experts and immunologists, where I will say something about this, you know, these studies show that, for example, the studies show that children that have had cancer

and measles have low-rated cancers and they'll go out. That's, that's just nonsense. So studies are just junk. I'll say, have you read the studies? No, I've seen them.

No, but see, but they knew already. You know, they've already reached that a priori conclusion. I remember in my deposition, not to go back to autism of Dr. Edwards, where I said to her,

if any studies show that a B vaccine does not cause autism, she said no. I said, but there is a study that shows three times rate of autism amongst kids and you didn't get a B vaccine,

and she says, well, I don't think that's, that's not a good study. I said, what study is that? She goes, "Oh, why did you show me the study?"

And then she had it ready. She doesn't know. Anyway, to show me the study. Oh, you see, that's that, because it doesn't fit within the,

you know, the belief system, unfortunately, it comes to this. And it's so easy, because like you said, what you got to do is just say, yeah, they're just an anti-vaxxer, and you got it.

And it's all, when, when the, when you have a company, like whatever company it is,

“whether it's Google or Facebook or whatever,”

and that company operates on an ideology, it's not grounded in reality, and then they enforce it across their platform. It's, it's, it's very frustrating, and really nutty to watch,

and just thank God, there exists some alternatives. Like, you would need a, you need a crazy person worth a ton of money. Like, he wants to just go and buy it,

and then also show, hey, it's still the number one platform for distributing information. In the same way that what, what Elon did for social media,

if he could do that for a search, that would be great. But I think search is dying. Yeah. I don't think so.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, he's going to take over. I don't see. I hardly ever search things anymore.

Everybody goes, hey, these days from what I could see. Because I can ask a question, like, how did this come about? I could ask follow-ups.

Is there any dissenting opinions? I love doing that. It's good, but it also requires less thinking, so it's bad in that regard. But yes.

What depends on how you're using it? When I'm using it, usually when I'm writing, I'm writing about a certain subject. I'm like, well,

who, who are the first people

to discover these Aztec pyramids?

“You know, I'll get into something like that.”

Like, what were they looking for? Like, you know what I mean? And like, you could, it's almost like you talk it to an expert. Yeah.

So instead of, it being like something that I used to think for me, it's like a super smart, friend of bouncing questions off of.

And then you could find so much about things, so quickly, as opposed to having to go through article after article after article, and like,

and that's what I want to look at for. What did court, how did he trick those people and to give them up their land? There's only,

fucking 600 of them. How did they do that? You know, like, like AI is fantastic for that kind of shit. But if you're using it all day,

like a lot of kids in my school, my kids' schools are getting busted for writing papers that are 100% AI. Like, they were a moron.

Yeah. Yeah. It's from the seventh grade. It's like PTSD, genius level,

paper. Yeah. It's one of your older, fucking wizards. Yeah.

It's hilarious. It's not good. I mean, you saw those studies that came out. I don't,

again, not my area, but I don't know. I only read the abstracts. I don't know.

But that, the more that technology been adopted into classrooms, it appears that the more detrimental it has been and actually,

the markers of what you would consider an educated education or intelligence. 100%. It's a distraction. It's like,

there's no way, because you're on TikTok all day. But if you're using AI, the one thing I will say, depending on the topic,

we probably should do it for all topics, is,

never just rely on the output.

You gotta ask if it's true. Show me the primary source and look at it yourself. It's so critical in every area. Especially if it's something controversial. I mean,

generally, I'm asking a question, so I'll something I'm looking up. That's not that controversial in terms of, whether or not it's argued.

You ever look at yourself? No. No, I know. I don't look at myself ever. Because I don't want to know.

I don't want to know people's opinions. I don't want to know what it thinks of me. I couldn't care less.

“I think it's much better to just keep on going.”

If you're in a public eye, including you now, everyone is subject to an opinion. And there's certain opinions that are just,

they're not people that you would ever want to talk to. And those kind of people exist. There's going to be shitty people out there. And their opinion written down looks just like your opinion.

Better to not have any of it. Better to not watch any videos. Better to not listen to anything. Just be a good internal judge. Be objective about your own self

and be self-critical to the point where

it's healthy and leave it alone. I was watching, like I was talking this the other day. I was watching this lady. Very boring, not very exciting lady.

Talking about how bad the beetles were. And I was like, you should shut the fuck up. Like, you know the beetles are incredible. You're just a moron.

You're just a dull-brained fucking dork. Just wandering through life. But you're allowed to. You're allowed to have those opinions. It's like good luck finding a bunch of people

that agree with you, but you're allowed to try. But I don't want to be a part of it. I don't want to be washing, swimming through bullshit opinions.

All day long. I don't think it's healthy. But I do think facing the opinions, and the views, substance of opinions,

views of those that don't agree with you, is an important exercise in life, and in every area, frankly. I mean, I'm, you know,

when it comes to the work that I do, you know, I welcome having debates with those who claim the eye of the vaccine at first. I mean,

well, this is, we're talking about a very different kind of thing and looking at yourself. Yeah, you're looking up hard line data,

and it's very important what you do, because it's crazy to say that being honest in this regard is courageous, but it is courageous. Because I've seen you attack.

I've seen crazy shit, like the people said about you, and it's like, good Lord, are you paying attention to what he's actually saying,

or are you some bot from somewhere,

some fucking bot farm and Vietnam, that's been hired to push an narrative? I don't know, but there's, there's a reality to data,

“that's undeniable that needs to be promoted.”

And I think that's what you're doing. There's a reality to the data. You really, I don't imagine a whole lot of people are lining up to debate you about this.

Well, Paul offered, and I had an exchange on the internet. First we had on Twitter. In person? In Twitter, no, he won't do it.

So we had that sort of talking about it. And then he moved it on to sub-stack, and it's all there. It's a great exchange. And I offered him,

and not just to be clear, not like it gotcha debate. I've offered him to have a debate where we each get 10 minutes, 10 minutes,

and we each get to present the evidence. So we have a screen. We can put up our evidence, and we can go back and forth with equal amount of times,

so nobody's talking over each other. It's civil, and it's based on the substance. I've offered him to do that. And the truth is,

I don't need to debate him. I've already debated the world's reading of exynologists, Dr. Stanley Plocken, and a nine-hour deposition.

People talk about, we should have a debates. Well, I've done that. It's nine hours. It's all on internet,

and you can watch it. And when my client put it out there, and it ended up on YouTube, this was many years ago. It had like millions of views at one point,

and then YouTube took it off. And then people keep putting it back on. And it's just a deposition. It just keeps coming back and forth and back and forth. It's a lie.

They take YouTube. Leave it up. Stop. Well, I don't know if they're still taking it down right now. Now the client's changed.

It used to take it down and down. And so, and I've, you know, and I've done Senate hearings, or were they, but those vaccinologists,

they don't want to show up anymore. I offered Peter Hotes that opportunity on the podcast. And I told him I would donate a hundred thousand dollars to whatever charity was choice.

And he like mock that numbers, being insignificant. I'm like, well, tell me what the fuck a number is. Like,

just come on, and I was going to have him and RFK Junior. Because he was talking about me having RFK Junior and they were saying about the lies and like, well,

instead of saying that.

“And I think he got it for get what term he used for me.”

And like Peter, you've been on my podcast twice. So what the fuck are you talking about? Like, why are you behaving like this? It's crazy.

What did he call me? Like, it was something about some all right adjacent or neo-fascist adjacent to point out.

The point is he was atonement, instead of substance abuse. He gave him an opportunity to show he was right in front of the world. He is the vaccinologist.

Bobby, just a lawyer, obviously will draw on himself. Like debate on. Well,

it's the media. I don't remember. And after he did that, I didn't. I didn't.

He had said all this stuff about me because Bobby was on the podcast. And it was one of the rare times that I have to go after.

I never go after anyone on Twitter.

But I was like, stop. I remember when you saying that. This is stupid. And I remember a whole bunch of people added in.

Like they were willing to add. I thought it was over. I forgot the number. It was in like a million. A million.

A million. It was in the millions. The million too.

“And he still would not sit down and do it.”

And the argument that you'll often hear is, I'll say, well, I'm not good at debating. It's,

you know, he's a lawyer. He'll use lawyer tricks. Peter Hotes. Are you?

No, no, no. He's a lawyer. Bobby's a lawyer. He's a lawyer. I'm an lawyer.

You know, and what they don't. But, you know, if data wins, exactly,

and I would win that data win. The substance should win. I want you. If you're right, I want to know.

I don't fucking know. You tell me. I'm willing to, Peter Hotes is here any day. I don't think he's going to do.

I'll put it. Call off it. Any of them. They can, In fact,

Stanley Plocking just wrote me a letter. After all these years after I'd depose him.

First time ever wrote me a letter.

What is that? He said, I heard you wrote a book. I heard you wrote a book. I heard you wrote a book.

And your deposition went very, very long. And I wasn't prepared enough, he's a world's lean vaccinologist. And I will be credited with saving millions. And you will go down in history as the one who's harmed

and killed children. That's what you wrote me a letter. And I wrote him back a response. And I said, Look,

I said, Dr. Plock, and I said, Thank you for your letter. I appreciate that you're writing me finally.

Because I've reached out to him before one time at least. And I said, Look, I said, I think we can agree on one thing.

We want to save as many children as possible. I want to save children from infectious disease. That's important. I agree. But I also want to save children from the harm from these products.

They matter too. They're not just, there shouldn't be accepted casualties. The tens of thousands of families have contacted my law firm.

Devastating harm from these products. They matter too. And I said, Let's work together. Let's work constructively.

I said, Because look, at the end of the day.

if you don't address this issue, I said,

“History is not going to remember you for the good.”

History is going to remember you for all the harm you caused because when people look back in history, products that cause devastating harm, which vaccines can do. They don't remember the good this product did.

They remember the harms that people ignored that were overlooked. And those were just cast aside. I said, That will be your legacy.

I said, But there's time to correct. He hasn't written me back. So of course, I posted both letters on my sub-stack. And I tweeted them out.

So this way, I figured they could do some good that way. So they're available to everybody read. Well, I think it's a very unique time

that this message can get out there. Because what they did, when they removed liability and they gave them blanket protection like that, they opened up the door to a bunch of people

that really don't give a shit about you. They just want to make as much money as possible. There's the scientists, this way I was described like these companies. You've got the people that are making these drugs.

You've got these really interesting, brilliant scientists, and they need the fucking money people. And the money people don't give a shit. They just want to make more money.

And they're both together.

“So you have this weird contradictory world”

where you have like some amazing pharmaceutical drugs

that helped so many people and kept people alive and cured diseases. And then you got the money people who want everybody to get shot up because it's going to make them more money.

And those two working together is a very bad mixture, especially when you have mandates. And then you mandate that these people have to be able to inject you

and inject your children with this thing that's going to make them money and they have zero liability. How could that possibly go well? Knowing what you know about human beings.

Who would sign off on that? I don't know. That's crazy. You know how to business idea for you. Okay.

I'm going to hear it. Sure. We're going to sell this product. Okay. Okay.

We can inject it into people. Are you worried it's going to hurt people? Well, I'm a little worried. I want to hear you story. Don't worry.

Don't worry. Don't worry about it because governments can give us immunity. No matter how many people we heard of kill. Okay.

Yeah. I just worked that out. Yeah. I know. Now the weird part is you might be saying to me,

you say, Aaron, Aaron, wait a second.

But who the hell did I take that? And I'll say, don't worry. The government's going to mandate it, too. And you might say, lover. Okay.

But what do people rise up? And I'll say, Joe, don't worry. They're going to spend billions convincing the public. It's the best thing since sliced bread.

And then you're going to say, but what do people still going to pay for it? And I'll say, don't worry. The government through a program, literally pays for half of all vaccine.

Garanty's payment to the farmer companies. Even if people cannot pay. So, sounds like a good investment. No liability. Garanty market.

Free promotion. Garanty payment. It's the most. If it wasn't vaccines, you'd say it's insane. It isn't insane.

And that is the business model of vaccines. The literally is what I just said. Think of it. So you're right. It's perverse.

But this thing that you're just saying before about like the money man who want to just make money like, look, we live in a capitalist system where we have tapped into that self-interest. But we try to harness it for good. So every company has that to some degree.

You know, people have that to some degree. But the idea with capitalism is, yeah, but you got to channel that and you got to do good. You got to do a good product. I do a good service.

You got to do something positive. And if you don't, you'll be held accountable. So it's. It's got. It's got guardrails.

Yes. So, you know, it's, it's, you know, because I, you know, feel people like, well, what are you saying? Like, people are sitting there in a farm coming with horns and evil. No, they're just, but they're just they don't have guardrails.

And they've, and they've gone totally, you know, they've gone totally off the rail. Do you like my business idea? It's a great idea. Yeah. I'll mix talks to my lawyer first, so I don't want to go to jail.

Why are you writing weird? I want to get a say inside. I get locked up to rest of my life, especially if you killed a bunch of people. And which is really crazy that none of these people do wind up going to jail. They paid giant criminal fines and then they slip away.

I mean, look at this hackler family. They haven't been jailed, right? Wasn't there, like, they were going to get a immunity in favor of, like,

six billion dollars or something crazy.

But then a judge kind of put the Kabash on that after a painkiller. The Netflix documentary drama came out. Yeah. And then yeah.

“And critically, too, I would say it's like, remember during the bank crisis,”

there were the banks that were too big to fail. Yeah. So they're going to touch those. The sack of family to me. It's like the smaller bank that they could, there was, I mean, it was bad.

But they could sacrifice them. They could sacrifice that farm a company. And they're going to sacrifice Mark, Sonofi, Pfizer, GSK.

Are they going to sacrifice them at the end of the day?

No matter how much harm they do. I don't know. It's hard to see it. Listen, I'm glad you're out there.

“And I'm glad you can articulate these points so clearly and passionately.”

Because people need to hear it. They need to know what the actual data is, what the actual story is about all of it. And it's better for all of us. And as hard as it is, appeal to Swallow.

People need to get that glass of water and start swallowing.

So thank you very much. Thanks for being here. I really enjoyed it. And tell everybody your book. Did you do an audio version of it?

I did. Did you read it? I did. How much work was it? Oh my God.

Oh my God. So it was a lot. I didn't. I thought I could read, by the way.

“I was like, I can't read yet, it's reading.”

And then it was, but I had to read the book, it was like, I couldn't read anymore. Oh, that's so hilarious. Oh my God. Did you have to read an audio book? No, but I do ads with the podcast and Jamie will tell you.

I'm always like, fuck.

I'm always fucking up sentences that you got to read.

Do them. It's brutal. Yeah. Talk just talking is fine. Right.

“When you have to read out loud, like your tongue gets all tripped up.”

I'm like, I go to federal court. And I'm like, are you? Are you going to go to the Senate hearings? I'm like, I'm like, oh my ton of audio guys. We're on the studio alone.

I'm like, I really am. But I think I'm, I might seem like a total moron. But I, I probably am a moron, but I'm just a little bit, but I don't know. I felt like a such a moron. Yeah, I'm really sort of read their own books.

So I feel the exact same way. It's so painful. Yeah. It's like, but I did it. It's done.

It's out there on audible and the books on Amazon. Thanks. All right. Aaron, thank you very much. It was an honor and pleasure.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Goodbye everybody.