#2479 - Bob Lazar & Luigi Vendittelli

>> The Joe, Rogan, experience.

“>> Join my day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night, all day.”

[MUSIC] >> We're up to Elmo. >> Hey, Joe, great to see you again Bob. >> Same here, long time. >> Time to go down.

Joe, you are still to this day. The most watched ever podcast we have ever done, that's on YouTube. >> That's just unreal. >> It's unreal. >> It is unreal, because it shows

you how many people are just absolutely fascinated by the story. And what you guys have done in this new film is essentially recreate S4. And using AI, recreate you as a young man in these experiences that you had. And it was really excellent. Luigi, you're the one to put the film together, you figured it all out.

“>> First of all, what was the technology that you guys used to recreate everything you did?”

>> Yeah, I just want to say there's about 10% AI in the film, but there's 90% blender, and that's actually handmade CGI. So everything you see is all handmade. And even the de-aging of Bob Lazar, we scanned Bob. We went over to his house, scanned his face, took a process of de-aging him through that.

And then creating a digital model of Bob in different ages, and then placing him in the environment. And then in some instances, at the very end, we perfected or kind of put a bow on it with a little touch of AI. But the whole thing is handmade.

So the craft, the environment, the papu slag, the facility, the equipment, and the people were all made. And some of the people are actually real actors that we put in there. So it's not, there's one of the guys that is Barry in the film is a guy called Luis Martinez. It's been working with me for the past 10 years, and he laughs at it because he doesn't believe I'm Barry. >> You know, so does he look anything like Barry?

>> Actually, he does. He does. >> That's why we chose him. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Where's Barry now?

>> I don't know, you know, I kind of thought at one point, after all this happened, we would at least hear from one of those guys.

But I never heard from anybody after the initial release of all the information.

>> Yeah. >> It seems like, wow, I don't know, if people are able to keep secrets for this long, it's got to be very difficult to just blur it it out. Like, you know, you're holding on to a secret for 20, 30, 40 years, you're, it's like, I guess these guys were lifers, though.

I mean, they spent most of their time there. They spent at least two weeks at a time and one week off. So they stayed at the base. I mean, these guys were hardcore. I had just come in on the project, you know.

So, I don't know, I don't know what happened to him. I'd love to know. I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died. I've seen people track him down, you know, all the way to point to speak and do his family. And they said, yeah, he had some classified job out in the desert or something.

I showed me his grave stone and stuff, so at least they were able to track him down.

But I've never heard of any leads on Barry or Renee or anybody like that.

“What is it like seeing the recreation of it in a film?”

Because, I mean, essentially it was your direction for lack of a better word, your description of it. You telling them exactly everything was laid out. And then once they recreated it, what is that feeling like when you watch it? Well, the final product is absolutely in mind blowing because, as I've said to Luigi,

it looks like you guys downloaded that out of my brain. I mean, you know, you can describe something a hundred times and until you actually make a picture, it doesn't become clear. But, you know, this took years. I think it was like five and a half years from when I first met Luigi and he said, yeah, I can do this.

And the quality kept improving to where he started showing me pictures. And I went, Jesus, that's, that's really it. It's not really it. It's really it. And I mean, it blew me away later on.

He showed me a 3D environment where I could put goggles on and move around inside. I mean, that made the hair stand up on my arms. It was, it was unbelievable. So, I don't know if I could really describe how that made me feel, but it felt like I was teleported back there.

And that's, you know, that's when really I developed an admiration for Luigi's talent.

I didn't have much to do with the film other than, I guess a couple of times going out there and going, no, that's right. That's the wrong color. Move this here, do that.

“And, but those guys spent over three years working on it and, you know, what they, and they”

never showed me anything, you know, I'd speak to Luigi, you know, a couple times a month

and, you know, you know, you'd always say, you, oh my God, you won't believe this. I said, you know, show me, no, it's not, it's not done yet. So I really didn't get it to see anything till close to the end. But when I did, um, really without trying to sound dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes going that, that's it.

That's it. You did it. Just stop. It's perfect. Well, I had the pleasure of watching the movie with you and sitting there with you.

There was a bunch of times in the movie, you're like, yeah, yeah, you could tell. Yeah. I swear I could feel that place. I could feel it watching that movie.

“It, it just, it really freaks me out because as I've said before, it's not like what”

I saw. It's, it's exactly what I saw, um, it's, it's, it's perfect. It's just like Luigi was at us for with a camera. So, um, it was very, it worked. It's a, it's a very unique documentary in that regard and, and watching it with you,

seeing you experience this thing and then me, trying to imagine what it's like for you. You're this young scientist to get brought in on this thing without much explanation and then all of a sudden you're confronted by this craft and you, you know, the way it's broken down in the film and you get to actually see you viewing this thing and being in the presence

of this thing for the first time.

It's just, I could just only imagine what that must have been like for you and it's so weird to watch you, watch it again and see your wheel spins. Yeah. What the fuck happened in my life man?

“What did they do to me, what did they, what did they make me experience like, what”

the hell? Yeah. I, I really can't feel in the blanks there, it's, uh, I, I want to just say that there was a time when Bob got angry at me a lot because I wouldn't show him and he was like, come on, show me and I said, it's not ready yet.

I don't want to show you something, but at a certain point, we had to and Bob started remembering more stuff. Yeah, that's true. It really made a big difference when he, when he showed me some things and, you know, walking down the corridor here and turn, oh, stop.

Wait, there's another door there. I mean, it was like I was going back into the facility and, uh, really brought, I mean, actually seeing it again, I really brought some things back that I, that I had completely forgotten about. So that, you know, what's really fascinating is, for people that don't know your story,

you came up with a story, you talked to George Napp and was it 89, 88, 88, 89. So late 80s, you've essentially told the exact same story all these years and then, within the last, you know, nine, 10 years, we've started to get all these reports. There was the New York Times story, there was the GoFast video and the Flier video and all these videos that show a craft that's moving the way you described this sport model

moving, right, which kind of freaked a lot of people out with the way it rotated and turned. Road to, yeah, does the belly roll faces at the bottom towards where it's want to go and then it, it takes off and this episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform for building a website that actually looks legit and helps you stand out online.

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of a website or domain. Yeah. It's exactly how you described all those years ago, which is really fucking crazy. Well, that's, I mean, that's the way it was. It's just, it's, it's crazy because you've had this story way, way, way back then and

everybody's like, this guy's just making things up. This is all cock-a-manly bullshit.

It's moving the exact same way he described. It's doing what he described in 1989. Yeah. Yeah. It's time to take a drink, Jerry, because it's so weird.

I can't, I mean, I've had so many conversations with people and, you know, one of the things

“that comes up is, do you think Bob was always telling the truth?”

And I say, look, I don't know. There's no way I could know, but he doesn't seem like he's lying. I've been around a lot of liars. Look, nobody can know unless you're there. You know?

I'm the biggest skeptic of all. Although, if you look at Wikipedia, it says I'm a conspiracy theorist. Yeah. I'm a far-right podcaster. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, that's crazy. But that's my train of thought now. Well, they, that if you, like basically are you a conspiracy theorist, no, you don't even look at this stuff. Well, you've had, if you have a lie, you have one lie.

It's amazing, because you've told the same one for these guys.

That's a pretty detailed lie. It's also not normal, like normally when people lie, they get bored with the same lie, and then they come up with another lie, and then there's some other stories. You catch them. Eventually, you catch them.

There's some cockamamey, new thing that they come up with, and it's the type of people that are that deceptive. I mean, it's just, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit the standard model of someone. Well, there are other people involved with it.

Yeah. I mean, that's also part of it. The first time Gene Huff finally is on film, you know, because when I had the, you know, a test flight information, it was one of the, not one of the, he was the first person I told about that, and, you know, we were all able to go out and see it, and look, everybody

knew that I wasn't crazy. It was, and then also all the confirmation that you were being fucked with, that, you know, when you were in the gym, they would show up and open up your locked car doors and open your trunk and leave it there, so you'd go out there and see it. They'd go to your house when you weren't there.

Yeah. They were even, right. They were even following George Nap and, and, I mean, all of us, anybody that had anything to do with it at that time, they were keeping eyes on it was, not just eyes, but a lot of intimidation tactics, just letting you know, letting you know that they could touch

you. Yeah.

I really worked for decades to push the set of my mind, so it's always tough to bring

it back, you know, and talk about it. And it's, yeah, although it might be funny now, it wasn't funny then at all. It was a really stressful time, and still is a very stressful thing for me.

“I know it's so many years ago, but do you remember the thought that came in your mind”

when you realized that it was in our hours? Do I remember the thought? Do you remember the experience? Yeah, I remember the feeling of wrecking, like, because initially you saw the American flag Yeah.

When I saw the American flag, when I first went in, the first time I went in through the hangar door instead of around the back, you know, slid my hand across it, saw the American flag, and I thought, oh my God, you know, this explains the UFO nut, you know. That's ours. Yeah, this is ours.

This is a new top secret fighter. We came up with a new propulsion system, and, you know, it explains everything, because

I never believed in flying saucers, I thought people were nuts.

But when they started reviewing everything with me, they were trying, I was trying to replace somebody, or they were trying to use me to replace somebody as quick as possible. And they had two directives. One was to, directive one was to duplicate the technology with available material at any cost, which is exact verbatim what it was, and directive two was to be able to disable this technology at a distance at any cost.

And, you know, once you start thinking about that, wait, don't you guys know how the thing you built worked, and it's kind of like they left that out, that this by the way, this isn't ours, and Barry is the guy that filled me in, going, no, no, no, this is an alien craft, and we need to figure out how this works. Look at the technology here.

I mean, this is decades, light years ahead of where we are, and it was a shock, really, to me.

“I remember going home that night and just laying in bed and reviewing everything that”

everybody said that day.

feeling, but the world just changed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, I don't know, I really can't put it into words. Well, I couldn't imagine what that experience is like, and it's also very strange that they would bring you in and not specifically state to you that this is not ours. They just bring you in and just give you a directive. This is what you were trying to accomplish.

Well, they gave me a bunch of briefings, everything was moving at a very fast pace, and I don't know why.

“I think I mentioned in the movie, right prior to I got there, there were Russians involved”

in it, you know, from what I can answer to him, there was an exchange of information, and then we discovered something, something of great importance. And of course, kick the Russians out and just held on to that information ourselves, and there was kind of a knowledge vacuum there. There was also an accident, and I was told I was replacing someone that was injured.

I believe he actually died. There's no record of who this person was, or is anybody trying to figure it out? I don't know. I don't have any names. I just know that Barry told me, you know, I'm replacing somebody.

That he used to work with, and he was without a lab partner for a while. So when I came in there, how long's it while? I don't know, but I mean, that brings up a good point.

First of all, we're dealing with alien or another civilization technology, whether it, you

know, it's from another dimension, another time, another planet, I mean, who really knows. So I'll eventually get to answer the question here, but wouldn't you think this place

“would be more like the lunar receiving lab or everything is white?”

You know, so you can see a spec of dust. There's everything is sterile. People are being extremely careful with what they're doing, but you're not seeing that. This is in now something akin to an aircraft, hangar in the middle of the desert. There's dust on everything.

People are taking everything nonchalantly. There's a, there's a friggin' poster about the thing, you know, they're here poster there. Um, thank you, Luigi, forget me, guys. We got to figure out a place for that. Put it in here, so.

It's awesome. Yeah, but I mean, they went to the trouble to make an a poster. They actually think right here. That's a good place. That's a good spot.

Right there. Yeah. Um, but I mean, they actually cut one of the amplifiers out of the craft. So that my point is, this is in the film as well. You can see.

Yeah, but my point is it's so nonchalant at this point when they first had it, it had to

be at that level and they became so used to it. So familiar with it that, you know, to them, it just became like another, you know, fighter aircraft or something from another country. So it's, uh, it must have been there a long time as what my point is, but look, as soon as you have something that unique, you don't let it just sit there in a hanger and be exposed

to the environment and have security people walking by and people touching it. I mean, it's an an isolated sealed secure environment and they were past that.

“So I think it had been there for a decade or decades, a long time and these guys were”

intimately familiar with it, not afraid of it, you know, and knew what was going on. So they essentially had gotten just completely acclimated to the fact that this craft exists that it was there and there had been relatively little progress as far as figuring it out and figuring out what it does and how to recreate it. So just kind of sat there and so I think they were making very little progress and I think

they kept going over the same road again and again and they probably had other experts there and just didn't and I think the reason I got hired is because I was a guy out in a left field that didn't necessarily follow what was going on. I mean the biggest distractors in you know, to me anyway in the story are other scientists, other physicists, well they would have hired me because I'm the top guy in the field.

Yep, you probably are, but I think they hired plenty of you guys and you just kept going down the same road and didn't do anything. I think they were looking for somebody that just would have some radical idea and just

and it was I think they were just in a desperate move to make some progress.

“One of the things you talked about in the first podcast that I think is really important”

is that the only way for science to really progress is that these various scientists have to be able to communicate and you have to be able to share ideas and you have to be able to collaborate, but that's not how this was run because it was so top secret, everything was compartmentalized. The metallurgists weren't talking to the propulsion people who weren't talking to if there

were biologic experts like everybody was frustrating. Super frustrating because I think I don't remember exactly where that started again, it's

40 years ago, but I think it started with the seats and no, it started with the actual

skin of the craft because everything looked like it was made from the same material and I wanted some information about the skin, the superstructure of the craft and they said no, that's restricted to what's we need a reason for you to, I just want to see if everything is exactly the same material and what I call the seats in the craft, I still don't know

“if they're the seats, but they might be, I think it'd be hilarious if they were actually”

something else, but I wanted some information on those and that was restricted information too, there were other groups working on that, so they compartmentalized stuff so much. There was no exchange of information between any groups, I mean, you could submit a written

response that your supervisor and my case Dennis would have to carry over and they would

have to approve and you'd get a two or three line response from the other group, but it's not how science works, science works on the free exchange of information and they were just killing themselves with security and it was really frustrating, it was terribly frustrating. And was this a function of security people, people that are concentrated and talks, it's top security, don't truly understand how collaborative science works, that's it right there.

You can't stop right there, they had no idea how that works. Because it stands to reason that whatever that thing was made out of, probably in some way, interacts with the propulsion system and whatever controls that are in it, that this material has to be particularly unique, exactly, that's exactly my point and I suspected

“the material was an electric, you know what an electric is?”

No. Okay, you know like a magnet, a permanent magnet is like, you know, it's a magnet, forever it's a magnet, it has a magnetic field, an electric is a material that has a permanent static field to it, a static electric field to it. And I strongly suspected that the craft was made out of an electric and I was not because

again, that's the material science guys, I was not allowed to connect that too, but that's so important to connect it to the propulsion system and how the propulsion system interacts with the amplifier or the emitters and I just, I wasn't allowed, you know, the information I needed. So it was, I don't know, it was self-defeating, what it was.

It seems like they were treating it like a fighter jet or an automobile, like in an automobile you have the outer area, the shell of the car, you have the doors, the skins, the hood, the roof, all that stuff which is meant, but then you have the propulsion system, which is the engine and the transmission and the tires and the wheels and the suspension, but they're all not connected, they're connected because they're bolted together, but they have

different functions. Right. I think the idea or the concept, at least as I'm gathering from you, is that this thing all worked as a cohesive unit, right? Because no physical connection between, you know, between the subsystems and all of it

made of the same material, at least on the outside, at least on the outside, at all made of the same material, and the other crafts all had the same power plant in them. So that brings to mind, you know, like a GM plant that makes a car with a Chevy 350 and makes, you know, it doesn't different models to it. Right.

So that makes you think about, boy, is there a factory, making these things, and, you know,

Did you know who the metallurgist were?

The people that were there.

“I saw them, you know, I know them, and we'd go to the lunch room, Barry would point”

them out, you know. And you weren't allowed to communicate with them at all. Oh, hell no. You have a lab partner, which in my case was Barry, and you're allowed to talk to your lab partner, but you can't talk to any other group that has to go through a written

we crest has to go to your supervisor and he'll bring it over to them and they'll bring it back and so on and so forth. But yeah, that's ridiculous, that it slows down any progress you might be making. Which is why they were probably stalled out for decades. Yeah.

Did you ever expressly communicate to them that you theorized at least that this all could

be connected? That there's something about the way the metal works. Oh, we all knew that. We all knew that because we'd get requests from other, you know, from other groups. And you could tell their desperate, just like we are and fighting against the system.

What kind of a request would you give it? Just exactly what we found out, you know, what where is the energy being transferred here? If the reactor fires up, is there a field present around it or is the field just absorbed into the emitter and you can touch the, you know, reactor itself?

And just little things like that, you know, and actually that was an important thing. When the reactor's operating, is it perfectly tuned the emitter to where it removes all the energy from the reactor and pushes it out the bottom and the answer to that was no.

“I remember that as a specific request from, you know, from one of the groups.”

The metallurgy group is the one that we really wanted to hear from. And some of the groups, I didn't, I don't even know what some of the other groups were. But how many groups were there? I don't know. There are only 22 people there total, including myself.

So I would like for you to tell Joe, one of the things that all interested me, because I built the craft, is how the wave guide worked with the ceiling and interior and how it blended, if you can explain, there was no telescopic. Well, this is why we wanted to talk to the metallurgy people. The reactor that sits on the bottom of the craft has a little dome over it.

And there's something that looks like a pipe that's slight, you can lift it up and take the reactor out, put the reactor in and lift it down. But you know, like a antenna works on an old walkie-talkie, it has different sections. There it is. There's from the video.

There it is. Yeah, yeah, okay.

“Yeah, you can retract the pipe, but there is no sections and it doesn't get any thicker.”

It just becomes smaller. And if you look underneath where the emitters hang down, they turn, and it doesn't buckle, it's a magical material. This is the basis of the craft, it's really the material that it's made of.

It's amazing, the way it works.

You can push it into a smaller volume and it doesn't change at all. It doesn't, it doesn't get bigger physically. It's, um, I don't really know how to describe it. So you're lifting the pipe up and down, but it's not going any more. Look, if you add a big pipe and you push it together, it has to get thicker.

Right. Because the material has to go somewhere, this doesn't, okay. It stays in exactly the same dimensions, it just becomes smaller. How? Well, yeah.

You couldn't talk to the metallurgers, so you didn't want to do it. Yeah, but those guys knew how. They did know how. I, well, well, they know it did it. They know it did it, and that's their job.

So I imagine they have more information than I did, um, but that was fascinating. It really was. And the, uh, the waveguides that hold the emitters, they come down and the emitters can turn and bend and the pipe's bend and nothing changes in them. But, and there's no wires or anything to make the pipe bend, um, yeah, I'm, I'm trying

Well, one thing that you said that I, I also thought was fascinating, there's no seams.

So everything looks like it's 3D printing. Again, right.

“It comes down to the material, which at the time 3D printers weren't real, right?”

Yeah, at the time that really confused me as it, how did they build this? It must have been built out of wax or something, and then melted, um, because you can't build anything without seams, and then 3D printing came into existence, and, you know, you could build stuff from layers up. Um, that made sense.

I know. Some sort of 3D printer, or they grew it, uh, you know, in some, uh, of course it's not a crystal in fashion, but, um, I, I don't know how that was fabricated, but it was fabricated different than anything that we have. I don't even think it was 3D printed.

And so you never got any inkling or any understanding of what the metal was, what, what,

what kind of an alloy would it consist of? All I can say it was cold to the touch, because the, you know, when I, when I touch it, um, I can't say it was, if it was a ceramic or I, I'd say it was metal because it was cold, um, because it looks like metal. And this is, yeah, it looks like metal.

This is, this is the designs by Perry, um, version of it. Does it, how much does that look like? No, that's 100%. That's it. Yeah, that's that.

That's to have the, the first ripple, it's supposed to be black, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so Luigi has gone over the, I mean, I built it. I mean, there's an insulator ringing, right? Can you show what it looks like in the film?

If you could show one of the images.

I don't, I was blown about the trailer and I don't, they've been pulling that back. Oh, yeah, on the trailer. There's a ring. I got it. Yeah.

There's, there's a ring around it. And we measured the voltage on the craft and there was a high voltage on it. Um, and above that ring, there is not a good shot. There's probably a quick message. This is the original trailer.

It's the new trailer that would actually, yeah, that one there. And you'll get to see it right there. Actually, right after this, it's actually before this, I believe. You're going to see the craft. And if you see there's a black, right, there's like a black line.

It's the first ripple. That's actually not metal. Yeah, we call that the, yeah, there it is. That's a good shot. We call that the insulator ring because below that,

there's a high voltage present on the craft all of the time. And above that, there isn't. I would imagine that your life has like two completely different chapters. Is before this and after this, where it's like once you see it,

“the whole rest of your life is now going to be very different.”

And you are, you're in, in its presence for how long would you work there for? I don't know, maybe six months or so. So for six months, you're around this thing. And I would imagine how to occupy your thoughts 24 hours a day. Well, I, at the time it did for sure.

It's actually three stages to the life. It's before it during and after it. Before it was just my life during was when it happened. And then the after part of my life is almost trying to dismiss it, you know, to just go on.

Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a long time. I mean, you did the George Napp interviews. You talked about it a little. You made some videos explaining things and how things worked. No, I don't, I don't really like public attention.

And I don't really like doing interviews. It was you probably know. You know, but, I know those people that thrive on that stuff. But, you know, I felt privileged to be part of the project. But it left me with an insatiable appetite.

Oh my God, I want to know where it's gone. Even when I was there in the 80s, they were talking about moving the project at that time.

“So, I really, I'm dying to know, is it still there?”

Has it moved on? Did they split it up and move it to other places? Yeah, I remember Barry talking about moving it to the South Pacific, like in Quad Jillin or something. But they said the expenses were so great.

They couldn't do that, but they wanted it away from everybody. And they hated the fact that it was right alongside the highway in Nevada,

But that's the best place they had at the time in the most affordable.

“And, of course, now it was, you know, budgets being so tight.”

Who knows where it is? Who knows if budgets are tight for this, though? Yeah, that's true. I mean, they did say at whatever expense figures out. Yeah, they were serious about that.

We don't really care what it was. It's like the original Apollo program. You know, back in the Apollo program, if they needed parts, and if somebody had something ordered UPS or through the mail or whatever, they had the authority to stop that shipment to that other person

and take their stuff if they needed it. And, you know, they had an unlimited budget. I mean, if you're working like that, you could do anything. Or at least anything that's currently possible with today's technology. There you go.

Which therein lies the problem is that they're dealing with something that's not possible

with, like, you couldn't build it from scratch with American technology in 1989. No, but that's what they wanted to do. And really thinking about that now, I'm not sure, not exactly sure. These guys should be allowed to do that. This is really powerful technology.

And the world has really changed. I mean, we have a lot of crazy people doing stuff now. And nonsense transmits through the population at the speed of light. And, you know, I don't know, this can be a very powerful world conquering technology.

“And, look, for 40 years, I think I've said this before.”

For 40 years, all the people in control of this information have all agreed to keep it quiet.

And these aren't idiots. These aren't idiots for 40 years. You have a line of people that all have agreed. No, let's not say anything. No, let's not say anything. No, let's not say anything. There has to be a reason why.

And if they all agreed to that, maybe I'm the asshole. No, really. Maybe they're right. And maybe you would have figured that out if you kept working for them. Yeah, I don't know, but I'm increasingly thinking, I'm the one that made the mistake. Maybe this is supposed to be just kept quiet.

Yeah, but that doesn't ring true. Because I don't think it's ever healthy if small groups of individuals have information that would change our understanding of where we are. Yeah, there's that. I don't think they deserve it. I don't think it's right. I don't think it makes any sense.

Well, I don't know. I mean, really, but really think about it. What if it's something that's really dramatic? Like, how so? What do you think would be like? I don't know. Maybe, I mean, what if it's, I'm not saying this is what it is. But I mean, what if it's like, you know, like, like we raised cows out in a field and just feed them grass and they're just going to be food.

“What if it's something like that? What if we're just like, you know, a population of creatures that are just to be consumed in some way?”

I don't know if we're to be consumed, but I do think we are-- Not physically can find like eaten, but I mean-- I think we have a task. And I'm more and more convinced as time goes on that we were engineered. I don't think we came about as a normal evolutionary process, like all the other animals.

Yeah, I agree with that. I really agree with that too. There's a lot of people to think that. It just doesn't make sense objectively. I mean, without seeming like a cook or someone who buys any conspiracy theories, if you just look at all the other biology on Earth, why is one so uniquely able to manipulate its environment, communicate instantaneously at distance, can't really even exist in its environment in most places that it lives without clothes and shelter?

We're a weird animal. We're very strange. Like, we don't seem to normally adapt it to our environment with the way we've completely controlled our environment with air conditioning and electricity, electronics and flight and travel. We're so beyond everything else that evolved, whereas every other animal, predator or prey, planet or a meat eater, all seems to cohesively exist inside of its ecosystem. And then you have us, which is like, almost like an invasive species.

Like, invasive species destroy ecosystems, like, because they don't belong there.

you know, mess up underground water systems with fracking and drip.

We're like an invasive species in a lot of ways. Yeah. We're really weird. We're really weird. I can't argue with that at all. Yeah, this timber shed thing.

So timber shed has recently been talking about this, and that we can't talk about it because it's classified, but he said you'd be up at night with the things that I've seen, if the things that I've seen have released. Yeah. He said, "We just need to disclose it all. I'm sick of it." Well, I was briefed, and I will tell you this.

I was brief last week on an issue or excuse me two weeks ago, and it would have set the earth on.

“This country would have come unglued. I think if they would have heard all that I heard.”

Well, this is what I was talking about.

If, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of space brothers coming down.

Oh, look what we discovered. You know, and here I have some information. And, you know, what if it's not that? What if all the information is bad? But what would be bad? Like, if you ever thought about this, try to, like, play it out to its natural conclusion, like, what do you think the scenarios could be that's bad? I don't know, everything that we're, we, look, we view ourselves at the top of the food chain.

What if we're not anywhere near there? I don't think we are. Okay, what if we're just consumables? Well, I don't know, like, chimpanzees are consumables, right? They're not at the top of the food chain either, right?

Right, but, no, but there's, I, we consider substantially lower than we are. Right. Like, my, my, my good friend that I John Lear, who had a bunch of crazy thoughts. I mean, he used to come over and tell us that, you know, on the moon, there was a soul sucker.

And when you, hey, Daddy said this, you better give me that bottle.

“That would have been great before you played this one.”

Oh, boy, a soul sucker. John Lear was an eccentric individual. Yeah. I'm excited. I never met him.

Man, he, he was hoarding evidence. He was a, what? Terrence McKennell talking about the moon. It's a soul catch. Yeah, yeah.

No, I mean, he'd give me pictures of these giant antennas on the moon. And in fact, I'll tell you a story. He, you know, he was an accomplished pilot. He had many world records and things like that. You know, part of the Lear family that this father invented auto pilot,

the A track tape, all kinds of stuff. And, but he, John Lear was a loose cannon. At the time, he'd fly from Las Vegas and, you know, shuttle L1011's, which are giant planes back and forth. And he'd say, you know, be kind of lonely.

He goes, hey, you want to go into Minneapolis tonight. He'd call me like a nine o'clock at night and say, well, no, not really. Come on, come on, fly with me. He said, just put on a suit and, you know, come to so and so. And I'd go to Macaron Airport and, you know, go there.

And, uh, yeah, I'm going to tell everybody your, you know, an inspector from the FAA. Okay. Great. You know, and I get on the plane and, you know, just act like you're, you know,

I'm going to kick everyone's ass. So I go on there and I sit in the, they fold down a jump seat behind the plane. And I just sit there looking at everybody. And God, all of this stuff is so illegal. And, you know, get on there and fly and, you know,

John would take, and the, at the Elton 11 was a pretty advanced plane at the time. This was in the 80s. And, you know, John would be smoking his pipe. He'd take off. He'd put his feet up and smoke his pipe.

And he'd fall asleep. And I just be, you know, hanging out there. And, you know, before the plane would land, he'd just, you know, wake up. And, you know, he'd be smoking his pipe.

And, you know, playing with land itself. At the time, my wife was taking flying lessons. And, he said, yeah, yeah, you know, bring her up here.

“And, I think they had an engineer also on another panel.”

I don't, I don't quite remember. But I was there with my wife. There were people on board. And he'd say, "Hey, come on here and take the wheel. And he'd get the captain of the plane."

What, you know, I think my wife was under 20s at the time. And just sit her down and say, yeah, hold on to it. And, you know, just keep correct it.

Which is insane.

And, you know, the copilot would just look over.

“And, I remember looking over at, I think, the engineer that looked at the gauges.”

And he just put his head down. And pretended like nothing was happening. And that was just one time. Another time he was firing in Elton 11. Going by Roswell at the time, I was living in New Mexico.

And they called him and told him he wasn't getting paid. That the company was, you know, defaulted or something like that. And he was coming up to New Mexico and landed at the Roswell. Just took the plane and landed at the Roswell airport. There's the whole 10-11.

Got off, walked out, walked up to a bus station. gave me a call on the pay phone and said, hey, Bob, I'm coming over. Okay, you know, you're in New Mexico. Yeah. And he drove up.

Taxi would drop him off at the house.

He'd walk down. Boy, I'm tired. And he just laid down on the couch. You know, I'd go to sleep. And I said, what are you doing here?

What's going on? I just dropped a plane off. They're not paying me. And you know, that's it. But I mean, John Lair was such like a loose cannon.

It was, it was a great friend to have. But he had no bullshit filter. If he had a retired general come up and give him all kinds of information. He'd put him in the same category.

You know, and so he really did have useful information that was difficult to get.

But it was mixed up with nonsense. And sometimes he would just really lean into that nonsense. Like he was convinced that the sun wasn't hot. And there were people living inside. And I used to die laughing.

I mean, you are in the same. I said, you can't prove it's hot. Yes, I can. You know, just go outside. You know, on a hot day, you know, and, and, you know, on Johnson.

That's not the sun. That's just the, the sun's atmosphere that's on fire. And I said, just crazy. But we got along, and he knew that I thought he was crazy. But the thing is, a lot of people did come to him and give him good information.

Anyway, I don't remember what I was doing. That's the thing about some people. Some people will tell you nonsense. And then they'll tell you true things. And it's difficult to accept that true things also come from people that say nonsense.

Right. Like, just because they've said something that's nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that this thing they're saying is not true. This is another thing. And you've got to be able to discern. You've got, like, I talked to a lot of people that say a lot of cookie things that don't make any sense. But then they'll say something that rings true.

“And it's, it's difficult because you have to have some sort of an understanding of the human psyche”

and of those kind of people because there are kind of people that have very loose nets. You're counting on their filter working like yours. And it doesn't. And no, it doesn't. But some good stuff gets in there and you go, hold on.

Would you just say, right, tell me that again. How does that one work? Yeah, you can't really discount people because somebody comes up with some absolute nonsense. It just means their filter is defective. Right.

But there's also the reason why they're willing to entertain things that are outside of the normal spectrum. Right. Right. So like they might have actual real useful information, but it's wrapped up in there with Bigfoot. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly. But so the soul catcher thing. Oh, yeah, that's where I was going. The soul catcher. So I remember him sitting in.

I think he was telling my wife joy of this story because I walked in on it and he said, "Are these giant antennas and when you die?" Your soul goes up and I think he said the grace, you know, this alien race, set up this soul catcher.

“And that's what this whole thing is about.”

And as you die, it sucks your soul in and they use it in some way. And it's not where your soul is supposed to go. They just like set some sort of intercept. Did you say where your soul is supposed to go? No.

No, he was just more really into the soul catcher. But that was one of the weird things about some of the documents that you had at least been alerted to when you were on the base and one of them being that humans are containers.

Yeah. And it's the likely conclusion as containers of souls, if a soul is a real thing. Whatever that is. That's what you would think. Right.

I mean, that's what I thought. Yeah. That's just, I would prefer to believe that that's not true. But maybe it is. I just, they, I don't know.

As Barry said, you know, they mix absolute nonsense in there. So if they get, if you, and it's unique to each person. So if you give out any information and they go, I, we heard stuff about soul catchers. I'll, we know that came from Lazar. So, um, that's just a way where they can direct where it, where it came to.

But then the problem is like decades and decades, generations, generations of people working there.

How many people know what the real truth is and how many people know. I don't know. I mean, there must be, yeah, there must be a group of people that really have the pure information of what's going on. I would assume, but not necessarily.

“I think there has to be, there has to be a group of people that know what's going on.”

And, um, who are those people? You know, and to me, like I, I still know Luigi, I have a bunch of questions for me. You know? Right. Um, like, what would be your questions for you if you met you?

Yeah. Now, questions for me are people that ask me over decades, the same, same questions. You know, why is it the Navy? The Navy paid me.

I always said the Navy, everything has been the Navy instead of the Air Force.

Because, you know, back in the 60s and 70s, you know, this project Blueberg and the Air Force and all that. But, um, everything associated with this was the Navy. So, and in these days, you hear some of these new types of crafts that are transmedium. Yeah. You hear the word "transmedium" and in a David Praver, Commander David Praver, you know, with the tick tack and, you know, things are under the water.

And, you know, supposedly the craft that, the sport model was an archeological recovery and that itself was underwater. So, what is, what is the deal with the water? I mean, it's, it's by far the biggest medium of the planet.

“I mean, if you want to hide people down there, almost an entire civilization down there, you could do it in the ocean as long as you do it deep enough and away from people.”

So, yeah, number one is what's the deal with the ocean? That's probably the number one question. Because there's a ton of sightings where people see things come out of the water and go into the water. Yeah, there has to be a reason for that. But, just in terms of if they have the ability to travel through space, whatever that thing is, really does create some sort of a gravity bubble or some sort of a space-time bubble.

Yeah, but maybe it's not space. Maybe, maybe it's time. Maybe it's another dimension. There's really no limits. If you can start manipulating physics in that way, you can bend time, you can open doorways into other dimensions. So, maybe it has nothing to do with going, look, we all wanted to be like Star Trek. Right.

You know, because Star Trek is really understandable. Right. You go out there, you fly to another planet, you meet the people there, you go to another one. Well, these guys are happy, those guys aren't, you know, and it all makes perfect sense. I don't really think it's like that.

Look, you know, if you're looking history, especially, you know, in the United States history, any time, a superior race or intelligence meets with an inferior role.

Just with an inferior one, it's never good for the inferior guys. Never.

We never come over and go, oh, we just want to teach you guys everything that we know. Right. No, no. It's like, we're going to rape all your women, they call your stuff, and then just kill you. User resources.

Right. And this consume everything you want. That's just always the way it goes.

“Now, maybe that's just what humans do, but I would be concerned that's what all life does.”

Well, we are territorial primates, and that makes sense that that's what we do. The thing that always fascinates me about particularly the grays. They seem to be genderless, and they seem to have no muscle at all. They seem to have enormous heads. And the stories, at least, the anecdotal accounts of people having communication with these creatures is that they communicate in some way telepathically.

If you transcend all of our weird biological needs, like all the things that are attached to being a human being, ego, lust, greed, desire to conquer, desire to control resources, all those things are territorial primate instincts. And one of the conversations I had yesterday with my friend Thia, we were talking about what's happening to people's bodies, is that people are slowly, we're consuming microplastics and thallates and all these things that are reducing our reproductive system or testosterone's dropping.

Right, right.

All this stuff leads you to say, well, where does this go ultimately?

Like, well, how many more people are autistic now than we're before? It's one out of 12 boys in California now.

“You should be one out of 10,000, just a few decades ago.”

Like, we're moving into this very weird direction without us recognizing you. Let me stop you there. It's one out of how many? One out of 12 boys in California are diagnosed autistic now. But do you think that might be the way they're diagnosed?

No. No, I think it's exposure. I think it's exposure to chemicals, vaccines, environmental toxins. Do you think that, Thia? I think that.

That's not just me. There's tons of studies in a lot of buried studies too. I mean, if that's accurate, that's right.

Well, it can't be just diagnosed because I mean,

I know so many people that have non-verbal autistic kids, where I didn't know anybody that had non-verbal autistic kids when I was younger. Well, you know, I mean, back in the 60s and 70s, there were no kids with ADHD. Kids that were like that were just assholes.

I think that's still the case. I don't think ADHD is a real diagnosis.

“I think it's a real excuse to give people medication.”

I think ADHD is essentially a superpower. What ADHD allows you to concentrate on things that you really enjoy, but you cannot concentrate on things you don't enjoy. I think I have it. I think I'm very fortunate that I'm not diagnosed and

medicated or wasn't or was born in the right time when they weren't doing that as much. No, actually I'll stop you there and say, I agree that that's a superpower too. Because it's very unusual. If I find a thing that I like,

I can lock in and concentrate on for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no food. All I need is like water or coffee and I'm locked in. I locked in for four and a half years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't think I don't think I think with ADHD is you're taking kids. You're putting them in a completely unnatural environment. You're making them sit down. They don't want to sit down. They're very active and energetic.

You're making them study things by very unenthusiastic teachers. They don't want to pay attention. They're fucking off in class because they're completely bored. And then you're saying that kids got a problem. We have to diagnose them.

And then what do you give them? You give them at raw and also in the kids locked in. Because they're on fucking speed. Yeah. But if you focus in and let them do what they're interested in.

Give them a kid a video game. Watch and play it for a fucking hour. So there's no food. Because that's what happens. Because that's something they're actually engaged with.

It's not that they can't be focused on anything. They just don't focus on things they enjoy. And we want to turn people in a nice little factory work.

“And the only way to do that is you got to get a kid to comply.”

You got to get a kid to pay attention. That's a good rule. That's the same channel. I don't believe that ADHD is a real thing. I just think there's some people that are wired differently.

And they should pursue different things in life. Right. The difference between that and autism is very different. And autism is especially when it happens, like almost directly after multiple vaccinations.

There's a lot of them they point to, particularly the MMOR vaccine. There's quite a few. When you look at the schedule of vaccines and how it ramped up in a completely correlates with the ramping up of the diagnosis of autism. But without casting aspersions or getting into some anti-vaccine conversation.

What I just did. Yeah, I do.

But what I'm saying is, but ultimately the human race is moving into a very weird place.

So I had a conversation with Shana Swan, Dr. Shana Swan, who is, is she studies environmental and aggrantist ruptures. So various toxins, thylates, microplastics, and plasticisers that are completely disruptive to people's endocrine system, reproductive system. And from the introduction of these petrochemical products in the 1950s and 60s,

you see a direct correlation between the dip and testosterone rates amongst men, the increase of miscarriages and infertility. And then on top of that, the actual shrinking of their taint. So one of the ways they find out the difference between mammals,

The difference between a male and a female is easily recognized by the size of the gap

“between their anal, their anal hole, and where their genitals are.”

But that could just be correlation. You know, it's like, no, no, no. No, I'll explain why it's not. Because when they've done studies where they've used thalates, particularly thalates, and they've introduced them specifically purposely into certain mammals and rodents,

their taint shrinks. And their taint shrinks and their penis size shrinks. And their studies on alligators, where alligators, when they live in polluted rivers, they have smaller penises. And she talked about all this.

And all of this, these are endocrine disruptors that are in the environment that are doing something that reduces fertility. And it changes the way the human biology functions. And it makes men more feminine and it makes women less fertile.

“Well, ultimately, when you look at the grace, what do they look like?”

They look like they have no genitals. They look like they have no sex. They have that might be where biology has to go to transcend away from our territorial primate biology. Our territorial primate biology that is insistent on war and violence and alligators.

And we think this is the place to stay. Exactly. And it may not be. It may not be. It may be completely non-beneficial to all life.

Right. That we have to transcend that. And what we are transcending it, whether we like it or not. And what I was saying is that I don't know if it's a bug.

“I think it might be a feature of evolution.”

That our insistence on using plastics and technology and all of these different environmental toxins that we use to produce energy and all the goods and services that we need. And also are disrupting our endocrine system and changing us from being these hooking hair-covered cavemen to being these very small, slight autistic men that could fucking code 24 hours a day without sleep. Right.

It seems like if you extrapolate and you naturally take that further, what do you get? You get really skinny things with no muscles and giant heads. My take also, and I do agree with that, is what I find sometimes really concerning is how fast that's moving. So it's not just a question of like, is this actually, this is probably a thing. But it's moving so incredibly fast.

If I look at my father's generation or my grandfather's generation and my generation, I mean, it's similar, but now it's moving so fast. I do agree with you saying, and I'm thinking if it's moving so fast, there could be a natural component to it, but there's an intentional component. Right.

If you wanted to do something to a race to change it, like think about what we did with wolves. Right. All dogs are wolves. Yeah.

I have two dogs that are the first fucking thing from wolves you could possibly imagine.

Is that Marsmela? Marshall. He might be a marsh ball. Marshall, who's a golden retriever. He's a sweetest dog of all time. And I have another dog named Charlie, who's a King Charles Cavalier Spaniel, who is even further

from a wolf than Marshall. He's just a cute little fuzzy little sweetheart. They have no killer instincts, whatsoever. That used to be a wolf. Right? But what happened? We soften them to the point where there's something compatible with our modern life with households and families and babies. We made them safe. And that's happening to people. It's happening to people, whether we like it or not. We could attribute it to all these different factors. Oh, it's a problem. We have to remove these things from the

environment. This is what's going on. Maybe, or maybe, we just look at the overall picture, there seems to be an insatiable desire for innovation and technology that human beings have. If you looked at us from afar, if you weren't part of the human race and you're just studying us, you look, what does this species do? Well, it makes better things. It makes better things all the time. Constantly. You know, I look, I have an iPhone 16 here. It's not as good as the iPhone 17.

iPhone 17 is better. Why don't you get an iPhone 17? Right.

It's like keeps going. It never stops. It never ends. The TV's get bigger. They get stronger.

Your cars get faster. Your computer just, it's more cores. It's just, it's more processing video editing. So much quicker. Everything moves faster and better. We keep making better things. We never stop and say, you know what? Society right now. We have a lot of problems. The problems that we don't have are technology. Our technology seems completely suitable to this

rivers and concentrate on stopping crime and concentrating on educating people,

concentrate on counseling for troubled young people. No. No, we just plow for it ahead with the one thing that we absolutely guarantee you do. We make better things. We make better weapons, better cars, faster planes. Everything we do, we make things better. And I'm sorry. I have to add we do that. And we also do it in a way where it's economically beneficial to the ones that are making it because we make things break now. Think about it. We make better things, but we make

“them so that you have to buy the better thing after. Right. The engineered ops lessons. Yeah,”

that's also important. Yeah, it is because then it also human beings have this very bizarre desire for materialism. Like, why would a thing with a finite lifespan want to accumulate objects? Like, I know people that are in their 80s that collect things. Like, what are you fucking doing with that? Yeah. You're going to die. You have maybe like 10 summers left on Earth. And here you are, collect and stamp some cars. 10 summers. Yeah. Oh, no. I have gotten to that. It's weird. Yeah,

I mean, at some point you, you have to bypass the accumulating stuff. Right. Part of life. But materialism ensures a constant fueling of innovation because this is one of the things that gets people excited about collecting new stuff is that you're going to make a better version. Like, I don't know how good your Mercedes is. It's not a 20 to 26. Right. Yeah. Exactly. That's the new features. It's a new thing. And so it's like all built into the human psychology

and also to this thing that I said, like I said, if you were somewhere from somewhere else and studying this species, what does it do? It makes better things. What are sharks do? They eat things.

“They just swim around. They can't even stop swimming. They eat things. What do people do?”

They, they really just make better things. They go to war. Why do they go to the war really? They go to war so they can control resources so they have more money so they can make more things and better things. And also the amount of innovation that is in warfare, in war weapons,

in war fighting. Yeah. That's actually critical. Yeah. They keep the system going. Yeah.

Well, ultimately all that does. It all of it releases more endocrine disruptors, more contact with all these different chemicals and toxins, feminizes men, ruins, women's reproductive systems to the point where ultimately we say, oh, for the survival of the race, we're going to have to figure out how to reproduce non-biologically. When I first got involved in, uh, yeah, it's something to do, right? It's something to put it because we're so wrapped up in who we are. We're so

wrapped up and look, I love being a person. I love living in Texas. I love driving an American car. I love all those things. What does it mean? Like, what is that? What is that? You know, these are just weird identity points that you connect with whatever this species is. Well,

“but if you just could just have a above view, you'd look down and go, what are we doing?”

Yeah, that's a, that's a good question. That's a good question. You know, like, how far are we going and how fast are we going there? We're going pretty fucking fast. And now with AI, I think we're going way faster than we even understand. Because with Claude, I mean, they think that the Claude AI, the engineers, they think it's sentient already. It just doesn't have a physical body. Well, like, AI is going to kill us.

Everybody agree with that. There's no question. I don't think it's going to kill us. You know, what I think it's going to do, I think it's going to prevent us from breeding. I think it's a little lettuce die off. I don't know, it's not going to kill us. But if we're going to willingly go with it, because we're going to get like mates like X Machina, we're going to just something that's seen as they come out with a female robot. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's sexually attractive. It's

whatever. Yeah, game over game over. There's just going to be no more babies. Yeah, we're just going to die out. Yeah. So, or integrate. And I think it's much more likely that we integrate. And that's where you get the grace. I think that what the grace are is a combination of technology and biology. And if you just, if you just go for it very well, to caveman to gray, you go, I see where that's going. Camp, camp, caveman, human, modern human, gelatinous, soft, slow-moving, weak modern human,

grace. Like, I have always leaned into what Barry told me, because it's the only information I

had, that the craft came from Zader, particularly, which is a star system 30, some odd light years away.

reason. But that information may not be true. Well, that might mean that information might be one of those things they put in. I mean, that's nonsense. Again, if it has to do with time,

“I think from what George just told me, Jacques Bale and some, you know, other really credible”

researchers have said that these are people either from another dimension or another time, or maybe they're us from the future. You know, just coming back to interact with us in some way. Make sure we don't fuck everything up irreverably. Yeah, but it doesn't seem like they're doing a good job. Well, maybe fucking things up somewhat is also part of the plan. Maybe that actually has to take place. I mean, I like how it shrubs. Look at the, look at the way things are going

right now. Holy cow. Exactly. Things are off, totally off the rails. Maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe part of it is like it has to get so far sideways that we realize how fucked up everything is that we start making meaningful changes and implement AI as government. That's a dangerous thing.

“Exactly, but is it as dangerous as you're on getting nukes? I don't know. Is it as dangerous?”

Look, I'm a malophate. No, it's only wrong. I won't say I get nukes. I mean, they never, they never

I don't want to get into political stuff. No, you could. If you gave you wrong the technology to get nukes. Everyone has any, any physicists is the technology to get nukes. Right. I mean, the difficulty is actually making the material. So, I mean, if I was around, I wouldn't reach to an 80 or 90 percent because that's where you can make a weapon and stop there. Right, it's not like there would be the only people with weapon, Pakistan in the North Korea.

But that doesn't make you have a weapon. It just gives you a shortcut to it and making a weapon from there and being able to deliver a weapon, you know, to 4,000 miles away. Good luck with that. That's a big deal. So, um, but they're in communication with China. Who has that? They're in communication. Well, then they don't need to, they don't need to enrich your enemy or do anything. Did you just get, can you give me a missile? Right, but wouldn't they rather make their own?

No, but it's not even the point. Rather make their own. Why would you do that? Would you rather make your own car or just somebody give it to you? No. Why would you do that? You've got a buddy that'll just give you one. Because you'd want to be self-sufficient.

You'd want to have your own preference. You can always do that. You can always do that.

You can always do that. No, you can always do that. You can always do that. I don't think they're ever, they were ever going to, they're going to absolutely make a weapon now. Right, because we're, you know, kicking their ass. As everyone has learned,

“I guess you have to have nuclear weapons now to, you know, but this is a really bad situation.”

Oh, it's a horrible situation. Yeah. But my point is, why is this situation taking place? The situation taking place is because human being suck. Right? We suck in how we interact with each other. Yeah. We suck. We suck because we're territorial primates with weapons of justice. Can't we just all get along well, right? What is the way to stop that from ever happening? Well, one, you will let a catastrophe unfold and then you offer a solution to make sure these

catastrophes never unfold again. What's the best solution? We'll have something far smarter than people

that will take over control resources in government. AI. AI. Yeah. I think this is colossus. Yeah, we see them will be colossus. I've got to watch it. Well, that's, that's the merit against you. Then it will be colossus was in 1960s or 70s movie and it's about, you know, the scientists makes deep inside this mountain. Our computer just take over the defense of the United States. And, you know, they build this gigantic computer inside Cheyenne Mountain or something similar to

it. And, you know, they flipped the switch and they went, okay, we're protected. We're, we're in good shape. And shortly after time goes on, you know, they realize, wow, the computer is really performing better than we expected. And as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing. And the computers wanted to communicate together. And, you know, they start communicating and the United States

and the computers freak out and they go, oh, I guess we'll just launch nuclear bombs, you know, at everybody and they it launches weapons. And, you know, essentially holds everybody hostage. But, it's kind of like a trap. It's kind of like a trap. If we go that way, it could trap. It's exactly a trap. Well, you know, in simulated war games, AI is used.

“Oh, they say 98% of the time. Yeah, I mean, yeah, because I'm a crazy guy. Why wouldn't they?”

Because I mean, look, the goal is to win. Right. And we're going to present you with the scenario and they go, okay, nuclear. And why wouldn't you pick that way? You're going to start with slapping them in the face. No, why is it better to just bomb them over and over and over again until you achieve this. That's the slap in the face, nuclear. It's over with. We can move on from there. Right. So, yeah. Well, you think about what happened in Gaza. Like, you look at the leveling of all those

buildings, the mass destruction. It looks like a nuke. Yeah. It looks like one nuke instead of thousands of missiles and bombs. It's one nuke. But it's not. Right. In terms of the amount of damage you do instantaneously. Because we can detect the nuke. Was there ever any conversation that you were privy to, where they discussed? Because one of the things that does come up over and over again in UFO discussions is these crafts that show up at these military bases and shut down

all the weapons systems. No, I actually know nothing about that. Most of the UFO stuff, or UFO lore that I've heard. I don't know anything about it. I've just looked at it. That's so fascinating

“because you're the most prominent figure in all of UFOs. That's what I was telling him yesterday.”

Yeah. I really, I really only like to talk about what I know about. Right. Of course. And I've

heard, I mean, I've heard other stories, but I've never heard them officially. I don't know if

they're really real. What's one of the things that makes you most credible? Because you're not a UFO. I guess, but it does. It does. With me. Because when people are way too into it, they want to believe too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no, I don't know what these people are. Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney. Okay. Well, so you know, they were the first abnormalities. I mean, to me, I don't, I don't know who first introduced those to me, and I looked them up. And,

you know, people say, do you believe them? And I'm kind of inclined to believe them because, look, in the 1960s, right, where they're from, the last thing you want to do as be recognized as a mixed race couple, right? I mean, right and go public stories. Yeah. I mean, holy cow, they would hate you. Yeah. A black person and a white person that were, you know, in any kind of relationship, but, um, yeah, they did that. A breezy story. Yeah. And you hear

that. And actually, on top of that, I have a connection. Yeah. Because Barney said, they're from the Zator particularly star system. And I believe it's Betty, Betty Hill drew map of the Zator particularly star system and said, this is part of their roots.

“Whoa. Did you know that? You didn't know that? I don't remember that. Yeah. Okay. If you”

remember, remember it from what you said from the Zator. Okay. But if you look up and Betty and Barney

Hill, um, she said, um, I think, well, I know I can never get this stuff right. They show her

a map and they say, well, this is a map. She wanted to know why they were here. What's going on? They showed her a map. Am I right? They showed her a map. And they said, do you, do you understand this? And she said, no. And they said, well, why should we tell you anymore? And, uh, well, I'm maybe it's something like that. But they, they showed her this star map, you know. And she, obviously, they're good. Yeah. Under hypnosis, Betty Hill describes a map she was shown by the leader

aboard the ship later. She sketched it. She said she was told the heavy lines marked regular trade routes. That's right. Yeah. The broken lines recorded various space expeditions, the following you, the map, seen at right, was published in the New York Times. Mrs. Hill struck by the similarity between the Times map and her sketch, then added the corresponding names. Yeah. And it ended up

being the Zeta reticulite binary star system, which was really interesting. And I remember when I first

heard about Bob's story back in 1989, and he said Zeta reticulite, I remember thinking, wow, that's what Betty Hill saw. So that made me also question, is that real in that document? Did, did these guys

the US Navy, write that in there that would correlate to something that we already kind of knew,

“I think that was a purposeful disinformation to disinformed someone, I think so. But why?”

Maybe it's true. Yeah, good. Well, Paul's right here in Houston, we'll be right back. I really got it. No worries. No worries. We'll be right back. We were talking about this whole Zeta reticulite thing. So, when you're dealing with so many different crafts and so many different things, the idea that only one species or one thing more advanced than us is visiting us seems kind of silly. If the universe is populated by all these things. I don't know, it doesn't.

That's it. Kind of. Kind of. I mean, the universe is really big. I do, you think everybody can

find this place? Yeah. I would imagine it's like spots that you visit like, you know, there's much of P2, there's ancient Egypt, there's, you know, subsaharan Africa, there's a bunch of different places where people go, you know, just humans on earth. And I would imagine if you have an

“understanding of how life is evolving in the cosmos, there's probably stages where things”

reach certain levels. And if you are, but they're far apart, right? They're far apart. I mean, one could be in this quadrant of the Milky Way galaxy and they reach that point where they can travel and explore. And there's a far distant point where another civilization can do that. And I mean, really, do you think there are that many? I don't think there are that many civilization visiting us. There's certainly, there's no doubt there's one from somewhere. I'm going to plan

it another time, another dimension, whatever it may be. Someone else is here. We're not the top. You know, of the pyramid. No. We're absolutely not there. There's no question. Well, I think if you got technology that say, let's just say the grace, let's say the graze of real, let's say the flying around these little crafts. Why would be a soon that it stops there? Why wouldn't we assume that technology gets to the point where not only are they far more advanced than

them, but they also are completely undetectable? Well, if you want to view the universe as infinite,

then it never stops. There's somebody about them and there's somebody about them and there's

somebody about them and it never stops. I was watching this lecture where this woman was talking about quantum entanglement and she was talking about how maybe our understanding of space and the distance between things is limited by what our current technology is and our current understanding of what space and time actually are and she would say what she was saying is there might not be. We might at one point in time given enough time, thousands of years or whatever, be able to

instantaneously travel anywhere and that just how quantum like like a sub-time with particles are connected in some sort of a strange way that we don't totally understand you and at far just spooky action at a distance, right? As Einstein said, that we might eventually get to a point

“where that's how travel works. That's instantaneous travel everywhere. I think we just have hints”

of these technologies. Look, everything, you know, we look at Maxwell's equations and things like that that we base all electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, actions on and how they relate to time and how they relate to things in our universe, but that may be nothing. There may be an entire level of physics that we're unfamiliar with that, you know, these crafts, these people, or these civilizations just utilize. So, the course, I mean if you just stop and think about going

from Morse code to a cell phone in a relatively short period of time historically. You go to the difference between 1200 and 1400 is not that big of a fucking deal in terms of technology. What's available? The difference between 1800 and 2026 is fucking massive. It is a massive, crazy change, right? So, 2026 to 2226, who fucking knows what we're talking about, especially when you have sentient AI, you have nuclear power plants that are controlling sentient AI that are fueling

out a thousand years. You scale out 2000 years. You really can't scale out a thousand years. Right. It's

impossible. Even at a hundred years, it's way way more than we might have ever considered. Also it's exponential. Right. That's why you can't scale out to a thousand years. And if you think it's exponential now, imagine when you have AI able to generate better versions of itself, which is what's happening with chatGBT5. It's essentially made by chatGBT4. Yeah, AI is absolutely the death of us. There's no, there's no question. Well, we're still going to become obsolete in terms of our thinking.

But, if we're obsolete in terms of our thinking, we're obsolete. Yeah. I mean, all AI needs is hands.

“Right. I think we integrate. That's what I think happens. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah.”

I was going to say, and that's a scary thought. That's a scary thought because it's like we're

going to integrate. I think it's inevitable. Think you're right about that. We're just going there. It's not like even if you and I are not going to actually do it, somebody will and it's going to integrate because other people will, it's going to happen. But it's still the same primate. We're still the same human sort of. But we already have problems with joints. And so we replace them with fake ones. We'll take titanium knees. Yeah, but they don't work as good. They don't for now. But

before they used to not work at all, like, you know, I met people that had surgeries in the 1980s, like knee surgeries, and oh my god, they're crippled for life. Even though they put your knee back together again, it's still destroyed. You know, you get a knee surgery today, 6 months later, you're 100%. No, I'd love to know the future. Yeah. Well, it's kind of you. I love to know the future. But what I want to say is that you don't want to work with a lot of students,

the master of equipment, laptops, software, the internet, and so on.

“I'm saying, you can tell that you're going to die. Yeah, you're going to die, right?”

But you won't do anything. No, you're going to die. You're going to die. You're going to die just like this. And if you then work at home, you're going to die. You're going to die? That's right. Save like this. You're going to die now.

Now it costs a lot of people. Well, that is, um, so one thing that I want to talk about is the, the actual, the generator, this thing that works on this element, that bombardment with radiation, how did you guys figure out what the function of

it was and what it did? So when you're first introduced to this craft,

and you see this, this dome, the reactor that's covering this, this thing that's generating this power, what was, what was the introduction to it? How did they explain it? The introduction was was way before me, um, and that's where the guy prior to me either got hurt or killed. So they determined that this was the power source. And at some point, they decided to take that out to the nuclear test site

because they wanted to cut into it. They x-rayed it. They only found a small tube that run it went around it. They really couldn't determine how it worked or what was going on. So at some point, and, and Barry made this somewhat clear that they cut into the reactor while it was running. Our, our while it was under load, I should say, and the reactor

“exploded. That's what killed or hurt the person that I replaced. But, um, it produced the, the”

base gravitational wave or base energy that provided that propelled the craft that provided the craft their propulsion. I mean, when they removed it, the craft had been worked, when they put it in, every single other craft they found had something either exactly like it or similar to it. So, uh, they determined that was the power source. That's at the point that I was introduced into the project. So when you see gravitational wave, is that for lack of a better term, or is it something

that's measured? Is it? No, it's, it's for lack of a better term. Like, there's nothing, I mean, as I said in Luigi's movie, you can take magnets with like poles and push them together and they repel. But you can't take your hands ever and push on something and they repel them. That's a force field, right? That science fiction stuff. But that's what this did. And this produced a field

push on, what did you feel? An elastic field. You can push down, but you can't get close to it.

The closer you guessed to it, the more it pushes back, see, you can, like how much distance between you and the actual thing. I mean, I would say about six inches or so. Maybe about nine inches,

“which is about a span. And no, at some point you can't push back on it at all. But the important”

thing is if you have a magnet, a little disc magnet sitting on the ground, and you have another magnet, and you push on it, that magnet moves away, right? Yeah, because it's pushing on it. But the craft didn't. The reactor didn't. If you had the the reactor there and you pushed

back on it, it didn't push away when you pushed on it. It just prevented you from touching it.

Yeah. And so when Dennis said go out there and look under the craft, here's the craft, whatever it weighs, suspending itself above the ground. And I went underneath it. You would think it's translating it's weight onto the ground and pushing, and I should be squashed. Squashed without any doubt. But I'm not. There's no feeling there at all. So it's not translating it's weight or it's push to the ground and pushing off the ground. It's just

canceling out. It's weight, which is something completely different. And so when so element 115,

“so you have it in this triangle shape form. Did you ask how they got into a triangle shape form?”

Was it made like this? This is how it changed. I'm sure I did. But I mean, it only worked like that. It worked like a stack of disks and had to be cut to a certain angle to work in the reactor. And did they say they cut it or did they say it was ordered cut? No cut. Well, it was already cut and they were duplicating it. Pull that microphone up to you. So they were duplicating it. Did they have more of it this element?

Yeah, they had quite a bit of it. So either there was a quantity in other other crafts or other reactors that they removed. Yeah. But was there any discussion that there had been some sort of an exchange where they had been giving this? No. So one of the things like, do you know Diana Pesalka's? She's an author that's written some interesting stuff about UFOs. And she's worked with Gary Nolan and you know on material recollection from supposed

crafts crafts sites. And she said that the way these researchers refer to these crafts, they refer to them as donations. And I guess that's possible. Right. Well, it doesn't make sense of this thing crashed. Why is it perfect? Why is it destroyed? Look, I've heard so many, I'm not into UFOs. Right. Which is interesting. That's crazy. I'm just interested in the technology. And I feel very privileged to have been involved in the project. But I don't know.

I don't think, I don't think there can be that many crashes. Do you? No. This advanced technology you think they're coming to Earth and just, there's a thunderstorm on their crashing into the ground. I'm not, I'm not buying that. There's one logical explanation that does actually make sense. There were some high-altitude nuclear tests that they did. Well, there was the teak test, you know, back in the 60s. Starfish Prime and Starfish Prime, right? Yeah.

If you had no idea that this was about to happen and you were hovering over Earth observing us. What are the chances? I mean, rather than the chances. They're not very high. Yeah. Right. They're not. I mean, what are the chances of crashes coming over? They're a nuclear test. That

exact second. Unless there's a lot more observation than we know. And that they just

observe us in a way that we can't see them. Especially if you're going back to the 1950s and 1960s, we have very few satellites. That was the nuclear cowboy era. Yeah. Where there was as they were. Well, they just starfish Prime explained to people what they did. Yeah. I did at one point

“for Megaton, you know, detonation up there and just, I think they did. Let's see what happens if we”

blow it up at this altitude. I mean, that's crazy. You know, there was another test planned to blow

But they detonate the moon. What if they pushed it away and fucked up our orbit? Yeah. I think

“that would take a lot more. I mean, there was, I don't remember what the, uh, the project”

project A19. Oh, A19. That was it. Yeah. I still have lunar research flights.

That's basically rock. Yeah. I can't pull up these numbers, but yeah, A project A111. I mean,

crazy. Yeah. We're going to do that because that like everybody on earth could just go outside and look up the moon. Get blown up in the explosion. We faintly visible to the human eye to people on earth. Yeah. I still think they should have done that. But, um, yeah, we're going on that. Get the guy to put a jet engine in the background. Like I honestly think they should detonate a nuclear bomb on the floor of the July every year. But that's just me. Well, also you

“live in the bottom. That's what we're used to. No. It had a long history of doing that. Yeah.”

So going back to this, uh, reactor. So, did, how was it explained to you? Did they explain to you

how the technology works or what they know about it? Like, now the way was it explained to me is is when, when I got to be alone as Barry, he said, he was excited to show this to me. He said, I'm going to turn, this is the reactor that we assume power is the craft. Sorry. No worries. I'm, uh, I'm going to, uh, show you the reactor, the power is the craft and he turned it on. Some all the little dome on a flat little plate. Like I said, was this in the craft or was this on

level? No, no. This is in the experimental area. Okay. And, um, so this was not the one that was in the support craft. This was another one. This was another one. This is it right here. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's in the film. And yeah, on on the table and he had it there. Any one over to the, uh, a meter and rotated it. And he said, try and touch it. And I put my hand on it and it rebounded off. And I, uh, the course you got to it the more it pushed back. And, um, that's, that's a real

shock because there's nothing that pushes back like that. That's a, that's a, that's a living force field that science fiction stuff. So, um, that really got my attention. So explain what is happening, like in terms of the, the rotation of this thing, like what is happening, like what energy is going into it that's causing it to go on? Well, actually we don't know that. I mean, that, that's the whole thing. It's, it's pushing back. It's a, it's a, it's a repulsive gravitational field. Like,

as far as we know gravity, gravity only has an attractive force to it. We've never, even with any

matter, we've analyzed it. And it still has an attractive force to it. There's no repulsive force that we've discovered because that would be a great propulsion system. But this repulsed. So, that, this was a, a new field completely. But how was he turning it on? He had, the matter, which is a big pipe part of, what is an emitter, like, what is, the craft itself has, on the main level has the reactor and what we call the amplifiers. Three, the reactor and three amplifiers.

Right underneath that, there are three emitters that are right under the amplifiers. And we believe the energy from the reactor is amplified by the emitters and by the amplifiers. By the amplifiers. Sorry. And transmitted to the emitters. And they produce this field that

“lifts the craft off the ground. And that's how it works. But there is nothing, nothing even in our”

physics or our science that, that correlates to that. I don't know. What is the energy that's going to them that causes it to turn? We don't know. I mean, we just assume it's gravity because it's the only thing we know like that. But it has a negative gravity effect. So, it might be a new force entirely. But when you're saying, so you have this machine that's next to it that you do something to that causes it to turn on. The emitter. There's the amplifier and there's the emitter, which

looks like a big pipe. Right. And if you rotate the emitter, I don't know how many degrees was it, 20 degrees. 20 degrees or something like that, that connects it in some way to the reactor

it's not a gravitational, it could be a gravitational field, but it's an anti-gravitational field

“that pushes on the ground. And what's happening in the emitter? Did you study the emitter?”

Well, we attempted to, but no. There was nothing that we really came up on that. What does it look like? Like what's the internal structure of it? It's just, it's a hollow pipe with I guess little copper colored plates all inside. It's kind of in the, in the film. But there's, I mean, these guys have been working on it for years before I got there. And there

was really no, no concept of what they were doing. Do they explain to you why element 115 is crucial

to this working? No, what role is? No. So element 115 was not even really discussed back when you were doing this. It wasn't even discovered or proven physically until it was a large, hydrant collider experiment in the 2000s, right? No, I know they synthesize that, but look, and you know, in any element, there is always, there was always a large amount of, well, it, it doesn't decay. There's like, yeah, I suppose. In the large hydrant collider experiment,

they were able to achieve it, but it only existed for a few milliseconds. Yeah, sorry. I've had too much. No worries. So, um, did they, how did they define this material? No, there's, I mean, there's different isotopes of, of every element. And element 115, just like any other element, there can be a stable version of it and a hundred or fifty different unstable elements to them. So, I'm sorry. No, no, sorry. Just trying to continue the train of thought. So,

it's basically different isotopes of it. Yeah, a different isotope. Yeah, I need to stop drinking this.

I can't, I can't even remember. Yes, I thought he's good. Oh, we got coffee. Oh my god. All right. Holy cow. There you go, little hob. Yeah, there's, I mean, there's different isotopes and you're able to physically touch this element. Oh, absolutely. I was totally, physically able to touch the element. Yeah. But when you're physically able to touch it, there's no adverse effects. It doesn't have any effect on them. No, it feels like metal,

it feels like no, it looks, it, it looks copper-like. I mean, maybe it's not as dark as copper is, but it, it's that color. And I haven't seen an element like that. It has unique properties that other elements don't have. It produces an anti-gravitational field. And when it combined with energy,

“with some kind of energy, it produced a field. Yeah. Yeah. And was it understood what is happening?”

Like, what is the relationship between this element and this, and like, how is, what is going on? Like, you're bombarding this element with something? Yeah, from what we understood, we x-rayed the reactor itself. And there was a path around it that, it made it look like a cycle of tron. So it looked like there was an accelerator. So when they were explaining it to you, is this, is this just your work partner that's explained this too? Yeah, it's, it's just

barrier that it's explained. And did you ask him, how do you know this? Where are you getting this from? Is this, yeah, he got this information prior to me. And they x-rayed it, found, a structure in there to where they believed it was an accelerator. And it was interacting the point of the one, the 115 is in a little triangular piece. And it was interacting with that in some fashion. So, and did he say whether or not the United States government or whoever was

doing this research had tried to recreate one of those on their own? That was our job.

“To try to recreate one of those on their own. But what was the metal that it was made out of?”

We don't know. We don't know. Again, the metal urge he was not, that was not.

this whole thing acts as one cohesive unit. It's not like you could make the same exact thing with aluminum or carbon fiber. No, you can't. This thing acted differently. This thing acted

“differently than any material that we knew. And I mean, I think all the answers are in the”

metallurgy, guys. You know, that's, that's who knew what was going on, who was able to provide the answers. But as far as we knew, if we didn't have the connection with those other groups, we weren't going to make any progress. You were speculating that there was a type of metallic alloy that would work better with this concept. Was it Byzantine, like what was this myth? Bismuth, yes. Did I say that? I don't think so. I don't know. No. No, no, no.

Someone, someone that I talked to was explained to me. It's related to on the periodic table.

I mean, this myth is above it. And 115 is below it. But we never did see any correlation

between the Bismuth. This was a completely new material.

“Well, I think, oh, that's what it was. Oh, this is what it was. So, one of the pieces that Gary”

Nolan had found that was, Gary Nolan is the guy to Stanford that has examined these pieces that are from supposedly crashed sites, crash sites where something had gone down and scattered. Some of these pieces, they're atomically layered. And I've heard that. Magnesium and Bismuth seem to be prevalent. Bismuth is the thing. Yeah. Bismuth is the thing. It's right above 115 on the periodic chart. And there's, yeah, there's something about that.

There's something about 115. Yeah. This weird magnetism stuff with Bismuth. There's a video from the action lab, the strange magnetism of Bismuth. Yeah. It's diamagnetic. Yeah. So let him play it a little bit. Oh, what's going to find this? What is diamagnetic? diamagnetic as it opposes magnetic fields, I see. So it kind of makes sense if they're finding these pieces that are, the way he was explaining it. The way he was explaining this,

whatever this alloy was, this very small piece that was found. I believe in prior to the 1970s. I don't remember the exact date that he's had. From one of these crash, one of them was from Brazil, they recovered. And someone had gotten possession of it in the 1990s and someone had gotten it

eventually to Gary Nolan. He said to create this on earth, first of all, it can't be done

with current technology. We don't have the ability to do this. The layering technology. Yeah. And that it would cost billions of dollars, just theoretically to make this. And it doesn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. This is it. A alleged extraterrestrial metal, the bottom of a wedge-chase craft that 1940s, 26 alternating layers, one to four microns, dark bismuth, with 100 to 200 microns, silver magnesium zinc alloy. Each piece received from the

U.S. Army source were formed with a curvature that tapered. Oh, in the 40s. Yeah. Right. That good luck making it. I mean, it says a wedge shaped craft in late 1940s. That's Roswell. I mean, that's that's Roswell. Well, I mean, what what does it do? I would like to see the test results of just the material. We can make that now. We can. Yeah. Want to form microns of bismuth. 200 microns of silver? Yeah. The thing is like making something like that in the 1940s. No,

in the 40s for the impossible. But I mean, now we could fabricate something like that. And we cost a shitload of money. So like the idea that you would make something like that and just scattered around. But what about what does it do? Right. What does it do? Why? Why is magnesium and bismuth? Why in that particular array? There is something about bismuth. There is something about

“bismuth. But that's that's why it's so fascinating. I would I would love to know where they like”

it's been 40 years. I would love to know where they're at now. Yeah, where they're out now. If they continued, they had to have continued. I can imagine you go, "Ah, we're done." No, I mean, they made a move to it. I mean, like I like I said before, I mean, they were anxious to move it out of there at that time. Are you aware of the labyrinths in Egypt that David discovered? So, are you talking about the columns? No, no, no. This is unrelated. This is something different.

So, Herodidus discussed this. Now, my friend Ben Van Kirkwick, who has unchartered X on

YouTube. It's an amazing channel where he was a tech guy who just got absolutely fascinated by all

and started making these incredible videos. But he's highly intelligent, incredibly articulate.

“And so these videos are just absolutely fantastic. And really, he's very well-verscient,”

typically, so you can understand these things and explain them to you. They're examining the construction of the pyramids and whatever technology was used to carve the stones and there's just so much of it that is confusing because it clearly is like a very high level of sophistication and technology that's involved in creating these things. Well, Herodidus described these labyrinths that were underground in Giza, not in Giza, but Hohara, is that where it was? Gemile find it. But this,

the way Herodidus described it, he said, they were far superior and more impressive than the

the pyramids of Giza. Underground. Well, these massive labyrinths that exist underground

were all flooded in the 1960s accidentally when they created dams in order to provide irrigation to agriculture that was in the area. So they changed the water table, fucked it up. This whole area got flooded. Did they know they were there when they accident? No, they didn't because a lot of this stuff, like this is from thousands and thousands of years ago, a lot of it was covered over with sand and, you know, there had been some explorers a long time ago that went there and saw

some of what was in there, but the way Herodidus described it is just absolutely fantastic. So then they started using ground penetrating radar and they started using these various technologies

that could detect what was under the service. And one of the things that they found was there's

an massive atrium and inside this, there is a 40 meter long metallic object that is inside this

“atrium, 40 meters of some unknown metal. How deep is it? I believe it's 100 meters into the ground.”

So you're telling me ground penetrating radar can get to a hundred meters underground. The stuff that was released, Philippa Bondi is used from satellites. Yes, we were talking more than a kilometer into the ground. And with decent resolution? Well, no, not decent resolution, but enough that you could see symmetry enough that they can also detect things that are well known. 100 meters chambers. Well, listen to this, they got they detected accurately a particle

collider in Italy that is inside of a mountain, 1.2 kilometers below the mountain. It sees through the mountain and can detect this thing in the exact diameter, the exact dimensions that this thing exists. So they can show you what a particle collider? Yes. So this is a particle

“collider that they know exists, right? So this is an actual particle collider that I'm looking”

for. Right. So that they just it's just proof that this technology is not just wait. I mean, hang on. I mean, how do they know what's a particle collider? No, no, no, the particle collider exists is the Italians have this particle collider. It's known, they made it. It's like they just read it. They just do such a thing. Right. No, they're not like we found a particle collider that exists. I thought you're no, no, no, no, no. So this particle collider, they use this

technology to show that you can see straight through this mountain to this particle collider that's underneath the mountain. So they know that the exact dimensions of this particle collider, you can see you can almost draw a schematic of it. Well, through this technology, they've also found these columns that are below the pyramids. These columns are 22 meters, 20 plus meters in diameter, and they have something that resembles coils around all of them. And they're positioned at various

points all around where the structure is. It goes all the way down and through hundreds of meters down and then it goes to another structure and the whole complex of it, these structures goes to over kilometer into the ground. What, how can you see a kilometer underground? Well, you'd have to understand this technology. It was it called radiotomography. It explained it to synthetic aperture radar, right? Yes. Well, whatever can stay in a kilometer underground, at decent resolution.

It's on decent resolution, but it's enough to understand the scope of what it is. It's enough to understand where spaces are and where everybody knows about this, but me. I mean, it's pretty fascinating. I'll send you the podcast and I'll send you some of his conferences where he was explaining this to room fills with scientists. You would think they'd be anxious to dig this up. They are. There's actual studies that are currently being discussed. Well, they already know

sand, because you know that the sand's constantly moving, but these things go hundreds of meters

down. These shafts that go down. If they find shafts, hundreds of meters out of piles around them, look, that's advanced technology. Exactly. Yeah. This is the point. Yeah. This is the point. Whatever this thing is that they have it in atrium. Like if they said that they got that craft from an archeological dig, I mean, what, maybe the Egyptians had found something similar to this,

“thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago. Yeah. I believe that's possible. Yeah. Well,”

the object that you're, I didn't, I actually got to speak to Filippo Beyondi, by the way, it's an Italy's in Rome. We got to speak Italians. We got to talk. And we talked about that.

I had no idea they found something with a metal object down there, though. This is not Filippo Beyondi's

work. Oh, this is okay. Different scientists that are just studying the lab runs. Jamie pull-ups some, that's some really insummatics of the lab strength. So in the lab rent, there's like a big, large atrium. You got to peek in? Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like a fuck now. Don't worry about it. It's a mayor. Clear your head. I have a prostate. So in this, in this lab rent, there's a large atrium. Okay. And in this large atrium, there is essentially a tic-tac, really.

A tic-tac shaped object that is 40 meters long, that is of some unknown metal. They don't know what it is. They don't know how it works. But this is, this structure is all underground in Egypt, which is wild because, and how, how, it's 100 meters? Well, it, look, it will, we'll get a chance to look at it. This is Hohara. So, so there, it says the 40 meter metallic objects. See that, where it says, "Hohara rising?" Yeah. So if you click on that, it talks about the 40 meter

metallic object. Discovered in Egyptians. Mm-hmm. I can't read every port. Subterranean one, lab rent. Yeah. Yeah. People talking about it. Right. Got it. But so, whatever it is, it play out some of the video just so we can talk about it. So, this whole thing, if you see some of the images that they're discussing. Friends, Louis, the 40 minutes

“away, even through the images, I think. And today we're going to talk about the work that I”

Chicago and the team that was in Poland as well. And at that point, when I had met the person, we've seen the logos, the later became my wife, six months later. So, yeah, you, you actually, we're working with the NRAG and then the, yeah. Yeah, that's not going to help us. But if you could just go to some of the images where they sort of outlined. I was trying to find it. There's not a very clear image of the metallic object that-- No, that's fine. But just the labyrinths itself,

what do you think the structure of it was? So, I, I don't know where they got this from. It's also the energy. 40 meter mystery metal object that's a weird rendering that doesn't usually come out from. Right. But there's some other drawings of, like, from the Herodotist days. Yeah, but, yeah. So, this is what they think it looks like under the ground, which is fucking completely bonkers. And if there is some 40 meter metallic object that's under the ground, and we are talking about

like the sport model being a part of an archeological dish, they might have found something back then. That was worship that thing and how that thing is like, you know,

“you learned it into this. Right. As a perm. Yeah. I, I think there's something to that.”

Well, you know, all these people that believe that there was an incredibly advanced civilization before some sort of apocalypse disaster that resets civilization and it took thousands of years. And what we are essentially is not the first advanced civilization, like, but a rebuild, a rebuild. Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of years later. You know, that rings true with

me. And as Graham Hancock always says, we're a species with amnesia. And I think that makes sense.

And I think if you're dealing with people that were basically knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000, 12,000 years ago and it took us forever to rebuild to where we are now. I think we've gone down a completely different path than whatever the people that were able to build the pyramids of Egypt and all these fantastic megalithic structures, we don't understand. Yeah, we don't acknowledge you. We use, we don't know. Yeah. And it doesn't, it literally doesn't

make sense that they were able to do this. It's, it's even like when we see those big gigantic stones and they're not just piled together. They're like interlocking weird shapes and that's like, how do we, how did that happen? I mean, that, you know, those are things that, yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant to admit it, but there's tremendous evidence that not only with these people far more advanced than we think people should have been back then, but they're probably

it's like a, it's like a advanced, but in a different way. Right. Right. That's another way.

“Different pathway. Yeah. They didn't go our way. Yeah. They didn't go internal combustion engine”

in the electronics because we would see something exactly. Right. But might not. If you're thinking about a hundred thousand years ago, there might not be any left, which is part of the problem. Right. But whatever this metallic object is, if they are able to figure out a way to divert some of the water there, see, all layers converge at a central corridor or avenue. He said, like the HMO shopping mall, we could see all floors from one vantage point, a hall consisting

of a massive space, 40 meters wide and no less than a hundred meters long. My personal interpretation Tim said is that the entire hall was constructed to house a centrally positioned free standing

object about 40 meters long. Wow. So this hall, they believe, was constructed to house

whatever this 40 meter long unknown metallic object. How could they not dig that up? Well, they could, but it's going to cost an immense amount of money. Right. And the thing is about the Egyptians,

“the people that run it, I had one of them on the podcast, Zahi Howas, and he's incredibly”

dogmatic about his ideas of who built this and what. And when you say, how did they make these structures, two million, three hundred thousand stones, the way between two and eighty tons, the biggest stones cut from quarries that were hundreds of miles away through the mountain. And it's like, this was a national project. Yeah, they Egyptians did everything. Yeah, because they were awesome. Yeah, I'm sure they were awesome. Yeah, sure they were awesome, but it doesn't

explain the technology involved because there's extreme technology, just to be able to cut those things. Like one of the things that they don't understand is these vases. These vases that they made that are perfectly, yeah, perfectly designed, where there's the difference between like the edges and the symmetry is like a thousandth of a human hair. And these are cut out of incredibly hard

granite. They don't really, I've never heard, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These are vases, but these,

this is a 3D print of one of them that exists. Yeah, and they're fascinated by the perfection and they're saying how did they do that? We don't even know that. Incredibly horror. Is there a stone with an incredible precision? Yes. And incredibly hard granite. Incredibly hard granite, incredible precision. Back when they had no metal allies, they had copper tools. It doesn't make any sense. None of it makes any sense. And then there's the symmetry involved in some of

these statues. Like they're perfectly symmetrical in terms of the distance between the eyes, the nose, the lips, most no one's faces symmetrical. Your left side of your face is different. If you combine the two sides, they look, yeah, it looks weird. But when you look at these statues, these statues, which are massive carved out of granite, again, supposedly before they had steel. Like they didn't have diamond-tipped instruments to do this. They polished them. They're perfectly

symmetrical. And massive. Some of them are a thousand tons. And they don't have any understanding of how these people built these things or put them there. And they all seem to be the biggest, most spectacular ones are the oldest. How could you not want to dig those up? Yeah, and look at them. There's, I mean, a concert about national pride, but if you dig them up, it's not just national pride. It's the pride of the people that have been espousing this one narrative for so long.

That's part of the problem. The gatekeepers of the information. It's still national pride. It is, but these people are idiots. That's part of the problem. Like their own ego is preventing them from being open-minded and calling out to the world's research communities and saying, listen, there's something going on here that we don't have the big picture. We have a picture that we have formed from a limited amount of information. And we've been incredibly arrogant about what we're

assuming. We also know that a lot of these pharaohs would carve their name and carve their hieroglyphs into existing things. They would claim existing things. Some of the carvings on these things are far cruder in the way they've done it than the actual construction of the thing. And they think that these are old things that were there already. And then these later pharaohs, just so they do attach their name. This is what their hieroglyphs into these things.

And another thing, and this has been mentioned a lot, is the fact that there's no tools that were ever discovered in those areas that would prove that those things were made and they had to use tools. They would have something. So there's not even that. That's not even available.

“So it's like how did they hide the tools? I mean, why would they do that?”

It doesn't. None of it makes any sense. And also these incredibly hard vases that you find, they're the oldest ones. The things that they find in the oldest sites. It's like the most complicated complex confusing technology seems to be the oldest stuff.

talk, I can remember his name. I got to meet him. Luke Cabrons. Was it him? Yeah, it goes to Peru and he has a show about that about the ancient stuff that they're finding underground in Peru. There's a couple guys. What was the other guy? He got black hair,

“him, remember his name? That's Luke. Younger guy? Yeah, younger guy. That's Luke. So basically,”

he was talking about the fact that there's two layers of ancient stuff in Peru. The first layer

is younger. And what's below it is what's really incredible in more complex. More complex,

but they don't want to go there because you're going to destroy an existing archaeological site that's on top of it. So what's happening is they're having trouble now getting permission to go to the lower level, which is even better because they're going to have to break an archaeological site of a more recent part of that civilization. Well, this is a common theme among people. We build on older sites. There's a place that I go to in Italy in the Amalfi coast. And there's this

incredible old church there that's over a thousand years old, but it's built on an even older church. And there's a plexiglass floor that shows the old church. And the old church is underneath it. And you

“can see this structure of this old church. And I was asking them how old is the old church? They go,”

we don't know. It's over a thousand years old. So it's over a thousand years old, it's church. And then this wild, really old church is on top of it that's like hundreds and hundreds of years old. Also, but they built it on top of an existing structure. So this is a common theme. This is a theme in Peru where you see the Inca construction, which is like much less complicated, smaller stones, you know, mud mortar. And it but it's on top of these megalithic structures that are carved

in these jigsaw shapes, where it seems like they've been melted. Yeah. It's freaky stuff. They have no understanding of what technology was used. Who did it? How they did it? How they moved these immense thousand tons stones and cut them with precision in this jigsaw way so that it will absorb the energy of earthquakes and not fall down. Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, there's a lot of that stuff that's really, really freaky. And then you get into old religious texts and that's when things

get really freaky. You get to things like the book of Enoch, the talk about the watchers who came down from the sky and freely. It's a lot of unusual stuff happened a long time ago. And we don't have a good record of it. We just have what we know and what we know we get very arrogant about. We know what happened 300 years ago. That's a really good point of what we know we get very arrogant. Right. And anything else we don't. These academics and these people that are in charge

of the narrative like the people in Egypt, where they're very arrogant and they're gatekeepers. Because their whole identity is based on them being the ones that explained to the world how

the incredible sites were produced. And if something comes along that is counter to that narrative,

they fight it. They fight it because it's part of them. It's their identity. Yeah. When I spoke to Philippe Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in Italy. I spent a lot of my time in Italy when I was younger. One of them, she was younger than I was when I was there. But she's now become a respected archaeologist in Rome and she's an Egyptologist. Okay. And I went out to Italy to visit family and I was sitting at the table. This is not even that long ago. And she's sitting next

“to me. I mean, I remember her from being a kid. And she nudged me at the table. There's her”

family's all academic. Everybody's the doctor or scientist or something like that. So there's

always that pride of the science. And she nudges me. And in Italian, she says, I'm really interested

in what you do, what you're looking into. And then you what she meant, it was about UFOs. And I just responded, I mean, I'm even more interested in what you know about what's out there in Egypt. And she looked at me and she says, we don't really know all of it. Some a lot of, she said, a lot of it makes no sense. But she said it whispering because she knew that that's not well seen at the table because now she's going to come across as this pseudo science type of like, oh my God,

she's going to come out of the main stream, you know. So, and then she came, she went to her place. And I was still there. We were there for a couple of days. She came and gave me a little book. And in Italian, I don't know how to say it. The missing, I don't know how to say it in English, but the missing Van Jello, like the missing scriptures, basically. It's a little book in Italian about the missing scriptures that are not in the Bible that speak of things that are not convenient

scriptures is they found them alongside existing scriptures. So, when they found the dead sea scrolls

in Kuhmran, so they found these in a cave in Kuhmran. It's kind of a crazy thing, like someone threw a rock and hit a clay pot and heard the shadowing of a clay pot. So, threw a rock into this high cave and realized there was something in there and then they started looking and then they found these scrolls that were in these clay pots. Inside the scrolls, they found the book of Isaiah. It was a thousand years older than the oldest version of the book of Isaiah that we had ever found.

And it's identical verbatim to the book of Isaiah that is currently in the Bible. Along with it is the book of Enoc. And the book of Enoc is fucking squirrely. Yeah, yeah, book of Enoc. Yeah, yeah. And it's a good way to describe it.

Just a few rabbis decided that the book of Enoc was too weird because it didn't

“drive with the Torah, so they left it out of the biblical canon. That's why it's not taught.”

But the book of Enoc is readily available. You can read it. And it's also in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian Bible includes the book of Enoc. Really? Yeah, so those are the people that supposedly are in possession of the Ark of the Ark of the Covenant, yeah, which is like Graham Hankau talks about it. There's like a person is set to like they have a job of watching the Ark of the Covenant, but it's known that it's going to kill them. So they all get

cataracts and cancer like you have like bad things. Yeah, well, there's some sort of radiation apparently and they exhibit signs of radiation poisoning when these people are designed to be the curators. Where is the Ark of the Covenant? In Ethiopian. Supposedly in Ethiopia. So you guys think that? I mean, I think it's ancient knowledge. I think it's probably ancient technology. It's probably some completely not understood ancient technology. I'm not discounting it.

I'm just wondering. Well, I like the fact that you're skeptical even though you have the craziest fucking story of the Ark. Yeah, but it speaks to your integrity. It really does. Because you're not a guy who believes cookie shit. So for you, a guy who doesn't believe cookie shit is a hard rational scientist who's an engineer who's done things like put a rocket engine in the back of a fucking Honda and then or a hydrogen powered Corvette. And then you go and see these things.

You're like, what the fuck is this thing you have in this thing? I worship technology. Right.

“Nothing else. Right. So I mean, here's something like that. Do you think that that actually exists?”

I don't know. Graham, you think is convinced it exists. It's very carefully guarded in these people and guarding it for centuries. I mean, this is in and throughout history. Yes. So I mean, there's too many missing pieces of the puzzle to really say one way or another. I don't think they're not it with just mythology or right. But it is weird that he's talked to these people. They have these fucking cataracts. And these people also the same thing. They die. The people that are designed

or that are designated to be the curators of this particular village. I relate this back to

it. I think I told you the first time we met, you know, if somebody found a nuclear reactor right back

at that time, you know, when they took it apart, they just would drop dead. Right. You know, from the radio. Yeah. Magicly from that. And anybody that came into check on them would also die and they go, this is evenly, it evil, it's cursed or whatever. Or and something that you're not supposed to have access to because there's some other, yeah. Right. And it could this be something at another level. Yes. You know, that I have to say and I mean, I'm no one to say it, but I struggle

with divine stuff because I'm like, it this this craft or this technology. I mean, our phones to somebody a thousand years ago would look like some divine object. I mean, it's technology to us. Yeah. So we have to be very cautious in, I got I'm not saying there is no divine,

“something maybe there is. We don't know. But I think technology really could mask itself”

as divine power 100% or divine energy itself could be technology taken to its final form. That's that I'm open to. Well, if you think about what we're talking about was sent chant AI and AI that has the ability to make better versions of itself, what happens if it's left alone? Yeah. For a thousand years to do this. Well, what do you have? You have something that can harness the power of the universe itself. And some access to zero point energy can do whatever,

I mean, has a complete understanding of quantum entanglement, complete understanding of how the universe functions, how it was created with this new theories that believe that the entire universe itself exists inside of a black hole. You know, trying to figure out whether or not there was ever was a big bang or if it's a continuous cycle of things existing inside black holes.

I think we're we're at a stage of a process. Our problem is we have ideology, we have dogma, we have ego. We have people that are smarter than most people, but want to think that they have all the information and I don't think they do. And then we have open minded people that are curious but don't want to look like cooks. And they're all trying to figure it out while we're making a fucking digital God. Well, these weirdo on the spectrum, we are literally manufacturing our own God.

Yeah, right. But if you take that and you extrapolate, you go from where it is now, you think about the exponential increase of technology. Well, where does that go? A kind of goes divine. I mean, that might be what God is. We want to think that God is a thing that exists. It just exists to create it everything. Maybe we make God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're on the

“same channel. Yeah, I think we created. I think we created God. I think human curiosity and this”

thirst for innovation is all a part of it. I'll say something about the technology because it

always fascinates me. I mean, I spent four years of Bobinet to build it in a virtual environment.

So I kind of had to think about it while I'm doing it. But if you really think about what this technology that you saw does, it essentially creates this artificial field of whether it's art, maybe it's natural, maybe it's a natural field, but it creates a field that we're not familiar with. And that field, I mean, Joe, you saw the movie. There was a test I was done in the lab that froze a candle flame. But the, but the photons are still visible within our realm here

outside of the field. And you're still seeing the photons yet it looks like it's frozen.

“To me, is there is this, is that technology like a black hole? Is it some type of time stop?”

And they, and it basically gives us the power to utilize time in our advantage. If you think about progression in technology, anything we do, it takes time. Anything takes time. Whether it's computing power, we're now we're seeing quantum computers do things that they're faster and faster. And they could do a trillion processes in an instant. And Japan is coming up with better and then China. But because everything has to do with how long does it take to do that? Right.

If a technology can make you bypass time, it's like the record player playing music, but you're now able to lift it, lift the little pin on the record and move it to wherever you want. Yes. That's a good way to describe. Right. And now at that point, time is in your hands.

And if we have a technology similar to what you saw, because you always said, gravity is a control,

gravity is time. It's interlocked. Right. Space and time. Yeah. Exactly. So if that's interlocked, then we have to look at it not just as a propulsion system or some type of cool weapon, but how is it affecting time and how can we use that to our benefit to evolve, sorry, to evolve faster? Because again, the faster we can compute, the faster we could do something, the faster we're evolving. And if we could lift that needle and bring it faster to get there,

to get somewhere, why not use it? Or should we? I mean, should we be allowed to do that? Austin, our current form. Yeah. No, I know. I guess that I'm not exactly on our side anymore. Well, that was one of the, you know, do you remember Jamie who discussed the way they were describing the use of some of this alien technology as instantaneous weapon deployment systems? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure we should be trusted with this stuff. Right. Yeah. No, really. Well, really.

You think about what we're doing in Iran right now, you would say no. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I would say no. We're still flying over patches of dirt and bombing the fucking shit out. No. Imagine if we had

something a million times that power. Really, humans should not be trusted with that. Right.

“We're trusted to AI. That's what we're making it, Bob. This is getting scary.”

Yeah. It's not science fiction. No, it's not. I mean, it's not. I mean, where do I can find of it now? But no, this is dangerous stuff. And I'm, you know, I'm sorry for the people who think this is all a joke. It's not. This is real. Yeah. And I'm really not sure we should be trusted with this. That's maybe why for 40 years or 60 years. People have agreed to keep it quiet. I would

Yeah. And again, it's a world dominating technology. And I don't know what to do with it other

“than to keep it from people. So, and how do we know if it comes up? Something I always struggle with”

is let's say they, they, let's say we do get in a, uh, a some, some type of thing saying, all right, we have, we have to see it from somebody in the government, the president, whoever that says,

okay, here we are, we have this. Well, first of all, we have to validate it. The journalist

are going to hold. No way. He's going to. The media is not going to just trust somebody saying that. They're going to go, okay, wait a minute. What are you talking about, right? So, it's not like because somebody says it, we just have to swallow it. It's like, all right, go. And then when you do that, well, now you're exposing something else. What do we, what, what happens when we need to believe it? Like, as, as a, as a, as people, what, what, what has to happen for me to believe something that

somebody says, there really has to be something serious that makes me believe it. You know what, I mean, like, if a president or anybody prime minister, whoever it is, says something to me,

I'll still go like, okay, I mean, show me. And then when they show it, how do I know that's

actually that? Think about that. Yeah. Right. And then from there, we now have to go to another level of, okay, well, if we have to prove it, we have to bring in scientific community. Okay. That means they have access to it. What's the security parameters there? Right. And then you get compartmentalization

“exactly. Right. And then that stops. And then that stops. And then that stops. And that's why you have”

this stigma, this stagnation of where you've got these people working on this thing for decades and not making any progress. Because you know how far we could have gotten if there was free discussion between all the groups working on this. Right. Yeah. But then you also have these

fucking cycles like from Dr. Strange love that want to turn it into a nuclear delivery system. Yeah.

So you don't have to worry about them detecting nuclear bombs ahead of their way. You just instantaneously devastate Moscow in one shot. You only have to take credit for it. Yeah, but we right. No, it's like we are not ready. Right. We are not ready. I know we're not ready, but we'd be more advanced if we did that. No, I mean, I agree that I agree with that. But it's all very strange and no one knows more strange than you. No, there are plenty of people that know more strange than

me. I mean, Dennis knew more strange than me. Anybody above him knew that. I just knew a small part of it. But you out of all the people that can talk about it that are out there communicating about it, you have actually seen it physically. Yeah. I tried to only talk about what I've seen in touch and verified. I've heard plenty of other stuff that I don't know if his true or not. And there's no sense in repeating that. Because nonsense moves at the speed of light these

right. And that's just it's terrible. You live in a weird existence, Bob. You really do. Because you've been holding on to this and you have this experience from 40 years ago that's just become a part of folklore. It's become part of the zeitgeist. This is why your podcast that we did is the most watched podcast I've ever done. This resonates with people in a way that look up down a lot of UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on about a lot of people

that have stories. They're all very interesting. They don't get nearly the amount of traction that

“yours does. And I think it's because you're uniquely credible. You're uniquely credible in the fact”

that you are very skeptical. You're not interested in like these fantastic ideas. You're very dismissive of nonsense. But yet you have this burden. Like you actually physically touched these fucking things and went inside. Yeah, I did. I mean, I was fortunate enough to have this really unique job. That's about it. And I am fascinated with the technology. But that's where it stops. I'm not interested in anybody else's story. Although everybody has to email me. And you know,

I understand it, you know, that they're looking for somebody. Hey, I saw this thing out when I was on my boat and you know, what is it? I don't know. You know, I mean, they're they're they're they're just looking for something and that's right. I don't know. Maybe it was Venus or something and right. Oh my god. You suck, you know, you worked for the job right. You know, it's like, dude, I'm just looking for a prosaic explanation. Right. And you know, but I only know what I saw

and I touched for myself. And everything else, even in official government documentation,

Yes. But, you know, I know what I, what I did see, I know for a fact. And there is no way

you can tell me that that's not real. Yeah. I mean, I, I have to say in having worked with them and having, you know, it inadvertently, there's no way that myself or people on my team weren't trying to dig deeper and maybe there's a problem. Maybe there's going to be a gap. Maybe we'll find something wrong with the story. Because we went, we went very deep with the build S4. It's a buildus board model. And there were things that happened over the years, things

that he had set to us before we had built it. That there's no way he could have known. Because there was physicalities, real things that we built. When you build something in a 3D environment,

you're actually building a real world. It's got light bounce and reflections like the real

world. Like when you turn on light, it does the same thing. If a material has a sheen, you see it, it's literally the same thing. It's just computing power that gives you access to another world. And he mentioned things that were absolutely impossible to know. And he would, one of the things that got two things really convinced me. One of them was in the interior of the craft. You had said to us, it was very dark in there. And while Bob is explaining to us the this interior of the craft,

then many time he kept repeating, it was really dark in there. Even though there were halogen lines. And so at a certain point he says, as I'm crawling in, there's like these extension cords.

“And I remember going extension cords. Like it then hadn't computed. And he's like, yeah, they had”

lights in there. And I'm thinking, it's true. I mean, there's no light switch inside this big,

it's 50, 52 feet. It's big. And so he said, yeah, there were two big industrial, yellow industrial lights with four spots each pointed up. And so we decided to make those. We decided to research the type that we're used back then in the United States, especially on military bases. The halogen power, because it was his halogen in 1988. And we turned them on. And it was still dark. And it was super dark. And I remember Christopher Mattole, by the way, a big shout out to Christopher

Mattole that's on my team who made a lot of those visuals. And he's like a magician. He's the best. He, he's there. And I said, Chris, turn on the lights because we have to film in the craft. And he's like, they're on. I said, they're not fucking on. I can't see anything. He's like, they're fully on.

“And I said, well, that doesn't make any sense. It's so dark in there. I remember thinking,”

it should suit the light. And so we up the power of the light so that you could see more. And it was still dark. And I thought, what the hell is happening? I was your bug. Is it, is there something wrong? He goes, no, I don't know. It's, it's absorbing the light in there. We had to up the light intensity on those tripods by 20 fold in order for you to see the visuals you see in our film. Otherwise, it would be really dark in that. So how did you compute that? Like,

what, what, what parameters did you establish? So what you do is you're, you're inside a 3D environment. You're an actual a 3D world. Now we're inside the craft that is 52 feet in diameter. It's we bring a camera in there. So we were filming. The whole film was was done with a black magic 6K cam. So we would bring our black magic in the 3D environment. You can actually set that. So that we could film inside the craft. So it matches the filming of our real cameras.

And so the, as soon as the cameras on, it's the same lens. It's the same aperture. Everything is as you would have it. And so you're trying to adjust for this dark room. But if the room is really dark, you can't really get a good look at it. Because if you go close enough, you would have seen like a seat and a little bit of the reactor. But you would have been like,

“what's the black screen I'm looking at? So what is the explanation for why it's so dark?”

It's just the way the light reflects. And, and that is exactly. Yeah, it's when you're in that space. Exactly. But here's the question. Like, what, what are you when you're making this in a computer model? Right. Right. What are you putting in that would make it absorb light that way? I didn't do that. So what we did is we spent over a year with Bob. I'm not, I'm not kidding. It was like a year of trying to figure out the material of the craft, the actual skin of the craft.

That was the hardest thing to do in order. The specularity and the reflectivity, the actual material. And the angle. Yeah. And then when the lights are in there, they just reflect it

It's always dark. And, and what started to interrupt, but that would have been. So when, when that

“happened, and we have the right material, which is like this, let's call it unpolished stainless steel.”

It's got a little bit of usage to it. Just to give it some texture. It's, it's, it's got the same sheen reflection, reflections of a real material like that. Because every time we put a fake light in there, okay, it's reacting like that. And now you turn these big halogen lights on. And it's like the part of where the halogen is hitting the ceiling of the craft. Because they were turned upwards. Remember, Bob said,

they were not pointed like this. They were pointed to the ceiling of the craft. So you got two of them. It's like wherever the light was going, was getting eaten up by that portion of the material. So it's not reflecting all the ways. You have a 52 foot distance. And it's being lost in a maybe seven, eight foot diameter environment area where the light is. And we're like, why is that happening?

“But that's how it does. What that's the reality. He could not have known that.”

If he's trying to make that up, anybody who's inventing a story says there's two industrial light with four halogen spots in there, a liar would not say it was really dark in there. You don't know that. You have to build it. Right. So to me, that was a physicality of being inside the craft that made me go, Lazar can not have known that if he was making that up. You wouldn't know it until you experiment. Exactly. Right. So I'm like, unless Bob, back then,

decided to go and in his garage, build himself a fake dome, which I don't think you did, I'm like, how would he have known that? We didn't expect that. We were struggling with, why is it so dark? And you make films. So you're used to using lighting exactly. And Chris was like, dude, this thing is just eating up the light. And I'm like, Bob kept saying, it's so dark in there. And it just, how do you, how do you, how is that possible? What were the other things? The other one,

I left about this with Bob all the time. It's about the flag on the craft that you could have seen it.

I don't remember. So when he walked into the hanger the very first time,

he saw, the very first time backwards flag. He saw the craft and he saw the American reverse

“American flag sticker on the craft. What do I was reversed? I'll get to that in a second. I think I”

know, but whatever. I'll, I'll say what I think. And there's a lot of stuff. I researched a lot of stuff on Bobless R before I did this and there's a lot of bad information out there. So I, I really, I really tell people if you really want to see what he saw it, don't go read what's out there. Check this out because Bob actually vetted everything. So it's not the wrong information read. But anyway, there's a lot of detractors saying there's no way Lizar could have seen that flag. If the craft was

that size and it was on the hall on the on the craft shell, there's no way the angle he's five something he wouldn't have been able to see it. So we built it. We built a 52 foot diameter craft. We put it in the hanger. It's there. And my, my team Chris gives me the goggles. The ones I made

you try on and it is a very first time I go in there. And I know the craft is there. So I put them on.

And now they're, they're hoping because they're there with, with notes, they're hoping I'm giving them all the notes. So no, that's not good. That's not good. And the first thing I did is I look to my right. I'm looking at the craft. And I'm, I asked Chris to put me at five foot 10, which is your height. So I said at five, 10, I'm Bob's height with the goggles. I want to see. And the first thing I said is, oh, it's, it, there it is. And they're like, they're what is? I said the flag. And they

thought I was pointing at a flag on a wall. And they're like, there's no flag in the hanger. I said, no, on the craft. And they're like, yeah, I said, you can clearly see it. It was clear. That was something that also made me go, yeah, this is, this is it. This is the real size. So had Bob's are not actually seen that. The majority of the, the tractors out there kept saying, there's no way at that angle, a human eye could see a sticker on the top of the craft, which is on the top shell.

But you can. It's as clear as day. So those were two things that I considered to be like, you know, it's there. So I know to, maybe, maybe some people, that's not a lot, but as a person like, I am who's very technical, I'm very, I'm super difficult. It took a long time to do this,

I look at stuff like that because I analyze everything like that. And I analyzed this story inside out. And if you couldn't see the flag from that position, I would have been, it would have been a big, yeah, that would have been a red flag for me. I would have been like, wait, you can't see it, but you can. So you can't, you can't put enough of a value on little details like that, because he didn't say this in 2026. He said this in 1989. Right. Why? Why do you think the flag was

“reversed? In American flag use law, the only thing we were able to ascertain is the fact that”

on military or on vehicles. Anything military on a uniform, if ever you see an American flag on your right shoulder, it's reversed because it's how the wind is blowing the flag on your left side. It's like the flag is because the wind is blowing this way. If you look at vehicles, let's say a gray-hound bus, they have American flags on each side. And they have a normal one on the left one on the left side and a reversed on the right side because it's the right side of the

vehicle. So it's blowing. It's blowing. Because the wind is blowing the flag that way. So the reverse American flag is a, is a, is a, is an actual, uh, it's the law of how to use the flag in the United States military or on vehicles. And it has to be like that on the right side. So to, to say, is that the right side of the craft? Yeah, it must be because if you go into the craft, the seats, when you're, when you go into the craft, I, I can't wait for you to go in the craft.

When you go inside, the seats are facing the right side, meaning the hatch is the right side of the

“craft. It's the only thing that came to mind. I mean, is that what the, they did at S4,”

they fucking put a sticker on it? I mean, it's the only logical thing we could think of is that's why it was there. Hmm. I don't know. I'm, you know, my other, my other, because if it was an American flag, if it was just for identifying this as America, why would you reverse it? Right, right? You're reversing it because it's indicating the direction, which is exactly. Wow. That's just an interesting. Yeah. Right. It's all interesting. The, the goggles is a trip. Right. When I put on the, uh,

3D AR goggles, and you, you, VR goggles, rather than you, you stand in that warehouse that hang, or hang, look at it. It's very strange. It feels weird. It feels weird. Exactly. Like it was. It feels very weird. It feels very weird, because I mean, I'm only imagining what it's like to

“actually be you in 1988 and be standing there. When you put the goggles on, that's exactly how it was.”

What did, what did Dennis say when you first saw it? Was like, uh, uh, there you come.

No. Dennis was hardcore. Yeah. He was, yeah. He was here. Look at that. You know, come back in here. I mean, it, there was no reaction. Barry on the other hand was out of his mind. He, he couldn't wait to show me stuff. And, you know, he said, check this out. Oh my god, that was that awesome. You know, but Dennis was, uh, it was like a hardcore, you know, military guy. There. How much of a beauty did you get at the other crafts? Because it's one of the things in the film.

You only see, like, hints of them. That was it. That's it. That's it. What you saw in the film is exactly what it was. It was just a passing thing. And as I was walking out there gone, wow, there's

more. Everything looks different. And other than the, the first two hangers, I really couldn't

tell it was passed out there. But there were other hangers and there were things inside them. But that's also interesting that at the time in 1988, this site was not even confirmed. This was like, for you to have to know about this and know the exact location of it as kind of strange. Right. Now, the, the way you did that, I mean, I gave him the general idea. I said, you know, I know what time I got out there and I could see Papu Slake and behind me. He pulled up a lot of stuff

from there. But another interesting thing he pulled up was there was an old silver mine exactly there in the exact same place. And I wonder if they used that as that it was already drilled. There was already, you know, Carter's and I actually, I actually held this for this show. What I'm about to say is

first time ever. It's not even, it didn't make it in my film. I wish it did, but it didn't make

it in the film. Veronica, on our team, she's my sister. She's like my right hand. And I didn't

at the maps out there. And we, we, you'll see in my film that Jean Huff sent us some U, US department

“of the Interior official maps of that environment at the group, Room Lake Papu Slake. But we weren't”

satisfied. We wanted to go deeper. We said there's got to be more. And there's one map in, that is a publicly available map. It's super not easy to find, by the way. That is in the hands of the US department of the Interior. I could get it to you if you want. I can email it to you. That map is the oldest map of Papu Slake known in the hands of the government that is, that is public domain. That map and everybody's going to be listening to this clearly shows

a road that goes right into where S4 was. It doesn't show a road near it. It shows a road going

right in the mountain. And they removed it. That map is from 1941.

Okay. Right after that, the map is 1950 and 1952 and those roads were removed. But the, the late, the oldest map we ever found. It's going to be available. We're going to post that on our website. It's going to be everywhere. It shows a clear as day. A road that goes right into the mountain exactly where Bob Lazar said S4 was. So do you think that that was the road to the silver mine

“in this place? Yes. I believe that yeah. I believe it makes sense that they would use an existing”

facility and just enlarge it instead of start from nothing. Right. Of course, especially if it's abandoned. Yeah. Yeah. And it also makes sense that if Roswell was real and if they really did find it crashed UFO in 1947, like in the 1950s, they'd be like, let's get rid of this fucking road. Right. Yeah. If we're putting this out there, if we're building this facility out there, and if they did have it, that also makes sense that they've worked on this for decades.

You come along in 1988. They've got this happening in the 1950s and it's still there. Yeah. Yeah. I think what happened is when the CIA took over, because CIA's won't took over, they're the ones that every 51. I think what happened is as they took over, they just removed the road. It wasn't even because there was a UFO flying saucer there. I just think they got in there to control of that terrain, that whole landscape and said,

remove it off the maps, because it's their prior to them taking ownership of that land. So I mean, it's clear that there was a road there, and then they came in, CIA said, take it out, and S4 might have had already an installation. It wasn't an installation, but they probably had a tunnel in there already, because it was a mine. So it was an easier way to build a big facility in the inside of the hill. Makes sense. It does make sense. And then there's also the images that

you got of what looks like the hangar bay doors that are camouflaged. And I have to say that, you gotta go again. Yeah. Sorry. No worries. That's all good. That frost date problem. Technology will fix that. It'll remove your prostate. Trying to do a fucking alien. So that image that you got of the unfortunately, it's kind of blurry, but you do see something that looks very similar to what you'd expect to be camouflaged, garage bay doors.

I got contacted by a guy called Scott Mitchell. And I was getting contacted by everybody, Joe. Everybody, everybody was trying to get in and getting to make me work with them or use something they found. So I was as ignoring 95, 99% of people's like, is getting tiring. Everybody's like, you got to listen to me. I know stuff about that and I'm like, whatever. I'm working with bubbles are, I have enough right now. And but this guy, we had built the base. And I knew exactly where

it was. I knew exactly the layout. And this guy, he'd not only contacted me, but he sent me an image that he had that he had drawn. He didn't want to send me the real, what he had found that he says. Here it is. This is where the doors are. And this exactly where they they point to. I looked at the image and I said, not bad. I mean, he really nailed it in the image. And I thought,

okay, I at first I thought somebody on my team leaked something we had to be honest. I'm like,

“who did that? Who sent out one of our renders to somebody? And because that's what I thought.”

And they're like, no, no, no, this is what? So I read, I talked to this guy. And he's a, he's really, really good at researching. And he ended up becoming probably one of the best,

there are pictures that were taken in 2020. And they ironically, those pictures were taking on

“December 25, 2020, which is Christmas Day in the middle of COVID, which means the base might have”

been shut down. If you think about that, you know what I mean? Like it's COVID. It's like in the heat of it, plus it's 20, it's 25th of December. So it's probably nothing going on there. And this private pilot in a small sess that requested access inside the perimeter, and they granted him permission. And he had a big Nikon camera on board with a big telecopic

zoom. And he took a shit ton of pictures. And they're amazing. They're all public. They're all

available. He could download them. And there's this picture of Papu Slake in the Hill. But they were being used on the internet for a long time. Every was like, see, Bob Lazarus is a fraud. It's not real. There's nothing there. Of course you can't see it. It's, first of all, 17 miles away. And secondly, they're not designed for you to see it. And that also, let's talk about something that Bob was talking about in 1988. The picture was taking in 2020. I mean, there could be a, that could be a different

landscape now. Anyway. So he said, look, this image, if you change the contrast, you got to keep the original, but just move and try to extract data from your image. You know,

anybody who knows how to use that do that with photography, you can do that. Any, any pulls out

these, this, this geometric, these geometric shapes. You could see them. They're, they're like little, they look like, like rectangles. And I thought, what if this is not real? I, I was super skeptical. I'll be honest with you. I wasn't, I'm, we're talking about the, the picture with the doors on the, the hanger doors, the one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we have in the film. All right. Right. And, and so I, I, I didn't believe it. I thought, there's no way. I go, there's no way. This is

real. I, I don't believe it. So Scott was really cool. He said, look, man, I, I understand your skeptic, I get it. I want you to do me a favor. Go online, search it yourself. I won't even tell you where it is.

“I'll just tell you what whom, who took the pictures. The, the only thing he gave us is the picture”

number is 0501. That's what the picture number is. He goes, if you find it, have whatever on your team playing around with until you see it. That was fair, because I said, okay, because I mean, if it's, if it's out there, there's two different places. It was, uh, online. And the one place we got it from was the source of it, okay, was from the photographer, the guy himself. We take it, I had three different people on my team. Everybody's really good at all this stuff on my team.

So I said, guys, this is what we need to see. If you guys could pull it up, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to be a skeptical. Everybody got it almost in the same time. They were playing around and, eventually, the the easiest software we used to get that, uh, detail out was Da Vinci resolved. And with Da Vinci, it's a faster process than if you're messing around with Photoshop or whatever. And it came, and I, I was like, oh my God, it, it's, it's, it's really there. You could clear. So

what I did is I had them scan the rest of the picture, because it's pixels, right? So I said, let's also see if it's not some pixel pixelation. Is it maybe just what the photo does? Maybe we just got lucky. And it looks like that there. Maybe it's going to show something similar elsewhere, and it doesn't. And then I said, all right, go get me 0502. I want 0500. I want because the guy kept snapping pictures. I want you to do the same. Like we went really military. Like I said,

I want to make sure this is, this is real. I don't, I'm not going to put our name on this. If it's not, and it ended up being, other pictures also show it, by the way, because he went click, click, so it's like it's not just that one. That's the clearest one. And so I was at a certain point, I go to Bob's house, and I'm sitting there, and the guy calls me. Scott Mitchell calls me, and he, it does no idea. I'm with, I'm with Bob's art. So I pick up. It's a video call.

And he goes, hey man, what's going on? I said, well, look, I said, look who I'm with, and he just, like, exploded, because he was like, oh my God, you're with Bob, and I said, show him. And so Bob was there, and we showed it, we ended up transferring the call on the zoom call, and he showed it. And you said,

“yeah, like, I remember you going, yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, that. What did that look like”

to when you saw those images? Yeah, that was, it was awesome. Yeah, it was awesome. What was

really shocking was the first hanger bigger. Yeah. Yeah, because the first hanger is the big hanger,

those, but smaller ones, and I said, Jesus, the first hanger is bigger. You, yeah, you found it,

look at that site with Google Earth? That is with the Google Earth. No, no, that was the picture,

but Google Earth, but Google Earth. But Google Earth, and I'll tell you something about Google, yeah, that was that wasn't with Google Earth. No, the picture is a real photo. The picture of the hangar doors is a real photo. Oh, okay, I said that was Google Earth. No, no, no, the picture is a real photo. The Google Earth, though, you see that in the film. Yeah. I can't make this, I didn't want to put anything in the film. I was one of my things. I didn't

want to put anything in the film that would make me the whole team or even Bob look like we're

trying to like, McGyver something, something in there. It has to be, you go look for it yourself.

“It's public. If you don't believe it, go check it out yourself. I, that's how, that's what was,”

that's the only thing we allowed in there. And when you go on Papu Slake on June 20, so June 22nd of 2024, June of 2024, Google Earth changed. You're going to be right over Papu Slake. If you zoom in, you're not going to notice it because it's kind of a yellowish tint to the image. And I remember going, why is it so yellow? I mean, I'd been there so many times. I was like, why the fuck is turned so yellow? And I'm like, so I'm zooming out and I'm like, why did they fuck it up? I thought they

fucking ruined everything. It's all yellow. And as I go further, you see this box that is like

right over Papu Slake. So I'm like, what is that? And I put my mouse over it and wherever you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024. And as soon as you put your mouse outside of the box,

“well, it's an older date. And I thought, oh, they just did that. And so I think what they thought”

they were going to do is that new filter right over Papu Slake removes every possible detail on the terrain, the landscape where the brushes are and the Joshua trees are, it really, really removes all that. It blurs everything out. But it makes, they made a mistake. They made a huge error. I believe so. And I think if they're listening, they're going to go, yeah, are bad to the, to the DOD because they're going, because you see all the tracks on the lake. If for some reason, that filter

accentuates the tracks on Papu Slake and removes the landscape brushes. I don't know why it just did that. And I was like, holy shit, you see all these tracks. What it looks like is they're trying to purpose loop secure the air. Yes. And the fact that it's in a very clear box. Yeah. And you talked about that in the film. Yeah. It's kind of bonkers. And what's really no reason. There's

“no reason. To pick one of the square boxes. Why? I don't know why. Well, nobody goes to. Yeah, right?”

Yeah. So try to obscure it. Yeah. Yeah. And so I thought, Jesus, we got to put this in there. I mean, it's so cool. Right? It's all very compelling. I think we should wrap this up. But the film's excellent. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Tell a took a tremendous amount of effort. And I could tell by watching you watch it. When we watched it together, it had insane impact on you. And you'd already seen it before. I saw it with you. So as you're just seeing it again, it's just like, it's bonkers.

Yeah. It really affected me. And is there anything else you want to say? There's a couple of things I want to bring up. Okay. You know. Yeah. Just because I prefer stuff Luigi has told me, people think that I make millions of dollars off of this stuff. Yeah. And I don't. I would I would love to sign on to the millions of dollars program. You know, Jeremy made made his movie and I didn't get a scent from Jeremy's movie. I said anything you make,

give to George. You know, Luigi has spent millions of dollars of his own money, literally, right? Literally, you know, making this stuff. And I can't see how he's ever going to make the money back. If he does, that's awesome. I drive a 1980 something, not a 1980, you drive? No. 19 2000. No. I'm 2018. Yeah. It should be bolt electric car. I mean, it's a car you buy for your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing to drive a customer. $18,000. You know, my house on the 10

acres cost 450 grand. And, you know, back when I, when I got it, I mean, that's, that's, I work six to seven days a week and I didn't nuclear my business. I mean, if there's anyone that wants

But, but no, I don't make millions of dollars off this stuff. And I, my wife and I do fine. We

grow our food in our greenhouse and we live in our little place up in the mountains and that, that's it.

“But, I, you know, this is Luigi's thing. That's why he's here. I think the film's going to be”

very successful. I think you're probably going to make money off of it. At least I'm not doing hell. Well, you know, I, thank you, Joe. I think we should wrap it up. Thank you very much,

Luigi. Thank you for the park. Thank you. It's fantastic. Bob, great to see you again, as always.

I'm sorry, I had a piece so much. That's amazing. It's understandable. It's understandable. And again, the film, let's show it on screen, Jamie, so people can know where they could see it, Wendy went available. Yeah, it's available, actually, as of right now. Let's play the trail. We'll, we'll, we'll, and yeah, we'll, it's do that. S4, the Bob's our story. We'll end it with a trailer. It's on Amazon and we are not alone. We are not alone. All right. Exists, which proves that there is life elsewhere, and at least one form of that life has been here.

As of 1989, that evidence was in the custody of the United States government. Between December of 1988 and April of 1989, I worked as a senior staff physicist in what has to be

“the most secret project in history. My job in this program was to be part of a back engineering team.”

This particular disc appeared to be an excellent condition, and because of its sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the sport model. The goal in this program was to see if the technology of the disc could be duplicated with earth materials. To start at the reactor, of course, we need some element 115. In fact, you need 223 grams machined into a wedge like this. The program out of this for consisted of three projects, project Galileo, project sidekick, and project looking glass. The file on top was project Galileo, and as it turned out,

that's the project that I was part of. And that clearly referred to reverse engineering, a recovered alien spacecraft.

“Just cannot be a secret from, from anyone, not just the American people, but the rest of the world.”

All this stuff is something that I have to, it's not who he is. They're doing everything they can to keep this information secret.

That's incredible. I saw a craft to do that. Thanks for him.

Now, this story's built. And the world chain. Bye.