#2502 - David Paulides

>> The Joe Rogan experience. >> Join my day Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. [MUSIC] >> Game of the book on the show. Pull on up to the microphone to get that sucker up like a fist from your face.

I first heard about you from that guy, Art Bell, the goat.

>> The greatest. >> Yeah, he was, I used to love listening to his show coming home from the comedy. We come home in like one o'clock in the morning, coast to coast with Art Bell from the kingdom of Nye, it was awesome and that's when I first got turned on to your work.

“So tell everybody, you start off in law enforcement, right, that's your background, correct?”

How did you get involved in this mystery of people going missing? So I had already written a couple of books and I was at Yosemite National Park doing some research on another topic and two Rangers are following me around and I went back to my room that was at the park and about an hour and a half later, one of the Rangers comes to my room and he's in plain close and he knocks on my door and he says, hey Dave, I'm Ranger so and so,

I'm here off duty, I want to talk to you about some missing people. I said, come on, so we start talking and he says that he knew about me probably the way you knew about me and he says I know you're from law enforcement, somebody needs to look into this, about a hour and a half later his partner shows up the door and they said that they've worked at different parks over the years and while they were working at those

parks, they were missing people and he said at the beginning there was a lot of publicity, a lot of people interested, a lot of activity and then with time, with about 10, 15 days, all of that would end and he said we got concerned and we did a freedom of information act against our own agency to get the reports and we couldn't get the reports and then we did a freedom of information act request on other cases and we couldn't get the

reports and we got concerned because after that initial 10, 14-day period of searching is all over, there's nothing else that happens, that's it and you said somebody got to look into this because there's a lot of people missing and the park service doesn't talk about it. Now, what was he assuming, was he assuming something the Ferris was going on or was he assuming

that it was a lack of commitment to finding the bodies because he got to assume most people after 14 days lost, no woods are probably going to die.

“I think all of you above, he thought that there were too many people going missing, there”

wasn't enough follow up being done and nobody seemed to care. So if you were being pragmatic and you weren't diving into mysteries and the stuff that I like, the fun stuff, you would say, well, they don't have any resources, you know, there's not enough people to go looking when you think about the actual square miles that you would have to cover to find a body and then also the reality of predators and

all these different animals that are going to eat bodies if a body's there. There's not going to be much left. You spent, obviously, you spent time in the woods, have you ever seen a dead mount line?

No, I've never seen a dead bear.

I've never seen a dead bear. I've only seen dead bears because I was hunting. I've never seen a dead bear. Well, no, that's not true. No, I did, we did find one.

“But I think it's very rare, but that one was recently done.”

He was killed by another bear. I think most of the time when you find dead animals, it's very recent. And if an animal's dead and it's left alone in the woods within a certain amount of time, something's going to eat it. Everything's going to eat it, including the bones.

There's almost nothing left by the time they get done with it. 100%. Yeah. But one thing I learned from being around rangers in all these years now is that there's

a few things that belong to us, what we go into the woods with that are always going

to be there, namely our shoes, belt buckles, belt buckles, leather, anything. The rubber waistband of your underwear, these kind of things stay forever, a rifle, a pistol, a bow. And those things you're going to find. But getting back to the point of these guys, there were too many people going missing in

a short period of time that no one seemed to care about. That was really their main focus. And somebody ought to look into it. Somebody ought to start collecting data. Nobody did.

And maybe somebody from the outside, they're the inside.

That was kind of the just of it.

Well, there's some cases that are just flat out weird. Like some cases like people go missing, they die, animals eat them, that's a wrap. That makes sense to me. But there's a few cases.

“And one of them you covered was a guy, I believe he was from Canada, that went skiing”

in New York, and he went missing. And then he showed up, 2500 miles later in California, with ski clothes on, and he didn't know what happened. Yeah, that was, he was a fireman from, I think, Toronto, that went with a bunch of friends to New York on like a weekend ski trip.

And the guys were all getting together at the end of the day to leave, and they couldn't find them. He says he wakes up on a truck traveling from like Reno to Sacramento, woke up in the back of a truck, no, sitting in the front seat. And he said that he was, as he wakes up, he's talking, it's not like he was asleep and

woke up. It's like his mind suddenly flashed open, hey, you're alive now, you can keep talking. And he goes, but I was talking to the driver, and we're traveling. The driver drops him off at Sacramento Airport.

“He doesn't remember anything, but he remembers his home phone number, he calls his wife”

in Toronto, and she goes, hey, everyone's searching for you, thinking you're still at the ski resort. He has all the ski clothes on, how many days later I don't remember. But even he doesn't make sense of it, he doesn't know how he got in the truck, the truck driver left, nobody knows who the truck driver was, that was kind of the whole story.

There wasn't a lot. So he didn't ask the truck driver, hey, where you picked me up, I think he was embarrassed. Just embarrassed that he was in the truck and doesn't remember how he got in there. Yeah. Okay, so he didn't say anything, and did he have any memories from skiing to like, did he ever

do like regressive hypnosis or anything?

If he did, it never went public.

Was that the weirdest one? I don't know, there's the weirdest one you heard of, the strangest disappearance story. There's a lot of people that disappear, that don't have a memory, and if you look back and you study missing people, those people who historically have been abducted, and there's something about that abduction experience where they can take away part of your mind.

“You think alien abduction, that's what you're saying, alien entity, something, some type”

of foreign. Just want to be clear, we're not talking about like a bad person abducting person. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Once you've got a great name for your business, you need a great domain, and Squarespace makes it easy to lock in a domain.

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has three small columns of Lymec, no-spring, pummel, fune, or nine, or another, 90s. You have the right, you have only nine, or another, 90s. That's the most important thing.

On the one hand, in the Olderland Rast Chatten, Infos, Totailnam and Rast Chatten, the E. Talking about some kind of entity, okay. And they take away part of that mind, where they were probably doing something to you that they don't want you to know. Right. And there's a lot of those. There's a whole segment of people that I have chronic old that were truck drivers, who have amnesia, who were found in conditions that were very strange. There was a truck driver in the Midwest, where the salt of the earth kind of guy drove, drove independently, wifeing the couple kids. He picks up a load.

I want to say it was pigs. And his truck is found, like outside of Indiana, on a little too lane highway, stopped on the side of the road. He's not anywhere to be found, but his coat is found in a ditch on the other side of the other lane. So the sheriff comes out, they do a huge search, flyovers, canines, goes on for like four or five days. Nothing. We can have later. His body is found in that field, in the spot where it's searched all that time.

The sheriff can't make sense of that, because he searched that with dogs and people, like I should have been there. But Joe, I have 1500 of those cases where canines were brought in. Multiple canine teams, multiple searches, and people were not found. And the point I try to make about this is that it's not that the searchers are inept, because I don't believe that. And I don't believe that the canines fail multiple multiple times, because I don't believe that can happen. I don't believe they were there when they were searching. They were left there later on.

“And so you've been, even into this for a long time, right?”

What was the first case that you looked into? They got you thinking that something weird's going on?

Probably would have been an eosemity, and there was a girl named Stacey Eris. And she just weirdly, she grew up, like five miles from me. I grew up in a little city, Cupertino, California. She grew up in Saratoga, the next town over. She went with her dad, on a trip by horse, sponsored by a contractor in the park at Yosemite.

And they were going to write into this place called the Hyceira camp. Her and her dad and five other people. And they get escorted in by a cowboy contractor, and they come to these cabins. And her dad's an older guy, they get to the cabin. And she says, "Hey, Dad, I'm going to go over here to the point. I'm going to take some pictures."

She brings her camera.

“And one of the guys, a 72-year-old guy, is sitting at that point.”

And she goes, "I'm going to go right there and sit with him." And take some pictures. Go, sure. Dad, watchers are walk out, they sit down, old old guy, barely they could write the horse. She's taking pictures. She gets up, and down at the bottom of the hill, there's a small lake.

And surrounding the lake, there's trees. She walks down into the trees, presumably to take pictures of the lake, but she doesn't come back. Big search. I'm talking about one of the biggest searches in Yosemite history. And they find the lens cap to a camera inside that path in the tree line. They never find her.

And that happened 46 years ago. I filed the Freedom of Information Act for that report and all the investigation into it. And I get denied. I appealed. I got denied. Finally, a special agent from the Park Service. Just so people know.

The Park Service has uniformed police officers, National Park Service Police, the Patrol, their parks, and they go to the National Law Enforcement Academy. Up above them, they have special agents, detectives. And they are doing all the follow-up work that the police officers in the field do. This case goes to a special agent.

There's been nothing done on this case in 40 years. The special agent calls me, "Why do you want the case?" I said, "Well, that's a new relevant question according to FYA. You can't ask that." And he goes, "Well, I want to know." I said, "Well, it's been 47 years. I doubt anyone's looked at it. Have you looked at it?"

"No, nobody's looked at it." I said, "Well, I'd like a copy of it just to understand what happened."

He goes, "You're never going to get the case."

This guy's name was, "Special agent, you, why you?" I said, "Why?" And he says, "None of your business, you're never going to get it." I said, "First of all, why talk to me like that?" I'm prior law enforcement. I'm not being rude. I just want to know. He goes, "Forget it. Drop it. You're never going to see it."

I said, "No, I want that case." And he goes, "You've never seen any other missing person case." And you're not going to see this one. I said, "Well, I have over 30 missing person cases from your agency from around the United States that I've foiled before and I've received. You're a liar. You said that to me."

I said, "No, I'm not a liar. I don't lie. And this is the truth." And he goes, "Well, you're not getting this one."

“Anything else you want to know? I said, "No, I think you've done it."”

And that was it. In that amount of time, I've really found out nothing more about the Stacey Eris case,

14-year-old girl, disappeared, never found.

Nobody's ever done anything on the case in 40 years. I haven't seen it. Now, I talked to Tim Berchett, who you had in here the other day. And I explained to him, "I want a meeting with Bergam." And I want to lay out what I have and explain the obstruction, the head of the department of the

And I explained to him the obstructions that are happening in his agency. Those are our reports.

“If nobody's looked at it in 40-plus years, what is a matter if I have it?”

Right. The people that were working back then are working anymore. It's not like anyone's going to get in trouble. Enough. Half of them are dead. Right. And Tim said, "Okay. I have my people get a hold here. They got a hold of me." They said that they called DUI. They said that DUI people said, "Yeah, we'll get a hold here.

I call them three times they won't call me back." So, what are you things going on? So, when you look at the totality of, and let's just talk about your sanity, as I dug into it, there's probably over 50 people missing in your sanity as we talk right now.

“When I asked for a list from your sanity, from the department of the interior 12 years ago,”

they said they don't have a list. I asked for a list of missing people from the entire system in the department of the interior. They said, "We don't have a list." And I said, "Well, okay. I've written so many books. I'm a printed author. I'm going to ask you to put that list together for me." According to the rules, I fit that criteria to ask, but they said they don't have a list. Right. But I asked them to put one together.

Okay. And they said, "We'll get back to you." They said, "No, you don't qualify.

But if you want us to put together a list from the entire system, it's going to cost you $1.4 million."

If you want a list from your sanity, that's going to cost you $34,000. So that guy may really upset. Over the next two years, I put the list together. Joe, the third year, you know what your sanity did? They released a list of missing people from your sanity. So I know I got all the people from your sanity. I wrote about him in my books. They still haven't released a list from the entire system. So do you think they released it

because you were pressuring them? No, you could look at it a bunch of different ways. I'm trying to look at it from the skeptics perspective. You'd say, "Well, this is clear. A bunch of people don't want to do their job. They're lazy. They don't like this guy coming along and asking for information. But you think there's something weird going on." So for you, I found on their website that was sent to him in 2011. It says that the appeal

was properly invoked because of exemption's 7A. And here's all I hear about it. That is 7A permits the withholding of records information, complied or compiled rather for law enforcement purposes. But only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings. So they could withhold it because you could interfere with enforcement proceedings? 40 years later.

That's 30 years later, I guess. That's fucking weird. The exemption is intended to prevent premature disclosure of the investigate investigatory materials that might be used in law enforcement action. 40 years later? It says the incident is still in criminal investigations, and it's still ongoing. 40 years later? What? 10-foil hat firmly placed on your head. What do you

think is going on? So first of all, missing people investigations are not criminal investigations,

right? There's nothing criminal about disappearing. If it's a criminal investigation and there's criminal aspects to it, it shouldn't be a missing person case. It ought to be suspicious circumstances investigated by a criminal investigator, right? It has a classification as a missing person. And what they're not saying there is what about the other 40 cases I've already gotten from them that are since that that are missing person cases. Right. So that's a little weird, but I could

also see incompetent people that don't want to work. They don't want to do their job. They're like

“fuck this guy. I don't want to do his work. I don't want to go, why is he asking me for this information?”

He's just a cookie author. I could see that. But like what do you think might be going on with these people? So when I was in law enforcement, I worked on the SWAT team and we had Canine's assigned to our team. Joe, I can't ever remember us looking for someone with a dog and the dog didn't find the person. Right. I have 1,200 to 1,500 cases where they bring a Canine to find a missing person and the dog can't track, won't track, or turns around comes down and sits down and is not

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Isn't that what happened to that woman recently that went missing? That was a part of this whole

group of scientists that were involved in propulsion research, Reza? Yeah. Same sort of situation

“right? She was with her friend. They were hiking. They had just talked. The friend was a head of her”

and the friend turned around to ask her a question. She was gone. They'd do an investigation. They bring in dogs. Can't find anything. The lady's just gone. 100%. 100% right. It doesn't make any sense and it fits that 411 criteria that I laid down, which is why I did a video about it. Her disappearance doesn't make sense. Do you have suspicions? Do you think something supernatural is going on? Do you think something extraterrestrial or interdimensional? What do you

think is involved in these people going missing? First of all, I don't know, right? In my books, I've laid out facts and I let the viewer decide. But one thing I did find because I've written about a lot of hunters that have disappeared. And let's say you and I go out and we're going to go

“pick hunting at your friend's farm down the way. And you say, "Hey Dave, you go that way and I'll”

go that way and I'll meet you in an hour." Okay. So in my world, I call that point of separation. Every time on a missing hunter case, it's at that point of separation that something happens.

It never happens when they're together. It always happens when people are alone. That's point

number one. Number two is the canine issue. Canine's failure to pick up a cent. They bring in professional trackers and they can't find tracks. That's not normal. A lot of times saying Alaska, they have some great native trackers up there. And they can't find people and every other time they can. So it's like if you're going from A to B, you're going to leave a cent and you're going to leave a track. They can't find that. And that's not normal. And I made a movie called missing

four and one the hunted. And in that movie, there was a case of 12, 12 guys are planning trees on the side of a mountain in Washington State. And there's a herd of elk at the bottom of the mountain. And all of these guys see this classic UFO come up the mountain hover over one elk. The herd scatters, but one elk doesn't. It just stands there. And then without anything between the UFO and the elk, it picks the elk up and it's gone. The guys all say, "F this,

I'm out of here. The whole group of planners leave." And the manager for the company says, "Whoa, guys, hold on. What's going on?" So they call move on out, mutually the UFO network. They bring some investigators out. And the interview these guys won by one. And they all say the same thing. And they say what we're afraid of is we're next. They just took that elk, but we're next. So that's in the movie. Keep that in your back your mind. He's a guy named Carl in Wyoming.

He's hunting in the medicine bone national forest alone. See some elk hunter guards away, mines up with his rifle, bloom. He says, "David's like everything went into slow motion. I see the bullet come out the gun about three or four feet and it drops to the ground." He says, "I walked over and he goes, "They all couldn't move and I picked it up the bullet. I put the bullet in my pocket." And then two alien type entities walk up to me.

And they engage him in mind-speak. And what they do is they eventually take him on a craft

And they have him march behind the screen. And they said, "We don't want you. You're going back.

Mind a mind." And he goes, "It's going on because you're going back."

“He says, "The next thing I remember is falling. 10 to 15 feet. He's guessing. He hits a shoulder.”

Probably displaces it and he rolls down a hill. They're already searching for him because he's missing his wife, the sheriff. And they take him back and they take him to a hospital. And they're taking X-rays and he had tuberculosis scars as a kid. Those are no longer there. And he had other medical issues that are completely cured.

The investigators came out and the Wyoming Department of Law Enforcement looked at that bullet

and did an exam on it. And they could not figure out what that bullet hit to make it the form in the manner that it did. I've pictures of it in the movie. It's very odd. See if you find the pictures online? Of course you are. If you go to Tubi, to UBI, missing 411 to hunted, the movie is there for free. You guys could watch it. So check out Gearhead's Gone Wild. It's my friend's show. Okay, so no tuberculosis scars,

the bullet, so I'm talking to Carl and I said, "Well, why do you think they sent you back?"

“And he says, "Well, I think it's because I had a vasectomy."”

I said, "Oh, did they say anything to you about that?" No. Okay. So he was 91 years old when he interviewed him. Sharp is a tack. How old was he when this encounter happened? I think he was 38, 39. And again, this happened in the medicine bone national forest. Where is that? Medicine bone is directly, I'd say, about 75 miles north west of Cheyenne. So at about the same time, the Air Force Base in Cheyenne is having a group of cluster

UFO sightings above the ICBM sites. And that was never made public at this time.

It was 30, 40, 50 years later through Robert Hastings and other Air Force personnel came out that these documents started to show up. So Carl would have never known what was happening at the same time these things in Cheyenne were happening. And then you think about, "What's going on in Wyoming that would cause this?" But really, the epiphany to me with Carl is there's a lot of people in the woods that are found, quote unquote, "they fell."

They always fall alone. And they always fall in places where if you and I are in the woods, we're going to be pretty careful one more alone. We're not going to be walking off a cliff.

“We're going to be careful. Why do these people are found in a very unusual circumstance?”

It's dead at the bottom of an area that you just don't think makes sense. And they couldn't be tracked. So with Carl, when you think about hitting, being taken, a hunter, hunting elk, nobody gets seen, nothing's heard. So I did a circumference around the area where he went. And it's in the movie. There's a group of German hunters. Carl was German. German hunters that have disappeared. Nobody else but German that have disappeared in that area.

And then when you look at the scope of what I've done in my work, I went backwards and I found there's a lot of German people that have been abducted. More than the normal population of people. And these German hunters really were the opening valve to me that something odd was happening with German. What do you think that is? Why German? I really wish I knew. That's probably outside my pay grade. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of rumors about the Germans having

associations with aliens during the Nazi times. Yeah, right. Well, there's a lot of like weird occult stuff going on with the Nazis, right? Then they were making like what looked like a UFO. They were constructing these things that looked like flying saucers. You know the Travis Walton case? Oh, very well. This is, I was bubble head. He came in here. That's another guy that went missing in the woods. And it's a similar story. You know, he was taken aboard some sort of a

craft, multiple witnesses, including people who hated him. One guy who he actually got in a fist fight with earlier that day. And they all told the same story. They all passed polygraph tests.

him aboard this craft, fixed him, fixed whatever happened to him, and communicated with him,

and then dropped him back off. I know Travis, well, in fact, I was doing a conference in Phoenix, and he brought his son to the conference because his son wanted to meet me because a lot of my

“work focused around things that happened to Travis. And I think Travis's case is probably not”

unique, and there's probably thousands of people out there that just don't want to talk about it. They just wanted to go away because it's too weird, and because you feel like a fool. Yeah, that, and I think maybe they're afraid that they're going to get pigeonhole this,

which you just said odd. Yeah, you're a crazy person. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the Travis case is very

interesting, because I mean, this is just, I mean, I'm just saying this, but most people who lie, they lie about a lot of stuff. They don't just have one crazy lie from the 1970s. They keep repeating exactly the same way and have witnesses. You know, that's the whole thing is very strange. Also, the fact that he went missing in the woods and then showed up multiple days later, there's nothing wrong with him. He's not dehydrated. He's not starving to death.

He's fine. He's just weirded out, and he has this crazy story. And it's not like his story is unique,

“either. That's what's very strange. The people that have been abducted, they all have very similar”

stories. They have similar, similar stories about medical examinations being taken to border craft,

things communicating with them telepathically. You know, there's, there's no like delusions of grandeur, like you have, you're the chosen one, you're unique, you're Neo, you're the one we wanted. We came here for you. There's nothing, nothing cookie like that. It's all just, they want to know what's going on with the human species. And they find a specimen. They do an examination. And it sounds completely insane. But we do that. We do that with species. We do that with other

things. We do that with primates. We do that with all kinds of different animals that we research. I mean, people, there's probably someone doing it right now in the Congo, probably looking for

“some animals, but you know, tranquilizing some animal, doing studies on it, releasing it back into”

the wild. We do it all the time. One of the things I say at conferences is, what if we're the ant farm? Yeah. That took a lot of fun. This is the bullet. So this is, thank you, Jamie. This is the bullet that this guy shot and it hit something right in front of him, it just completely deformed. That bullet looks like it hit a wall, like it hit like something like a giant plate of steel or something. I mean, it's just completely flattened. That's not like a bullet that hits an animal.

You know, bullets that hit, well, it could hit bones and stuff and get distorted, but it wouldn't be intact like that. That looks like an intact bullet that just flattened out hitting something completely immovable, very weird. One of the things that Carl said that they told him is, when he got on that craft, as he said, hey, you have my elk and they said, yeah, that's Carl. They said that we often come down to your earth and we take animals and we study them.

And you happen to be one of the people that was right there when we were taking that, so we took you too. And I've heard this before from other abductees that just like you said, we look at and test animals. Apparently, they're monitoring the health of our planet by testing animals themselves. So he said they communicated with him telepathically. Yes. What did he say? They talked to him about. So the elk, why are they interested in elk? That's a good question. And because they're cool,

elk are very cool. Pretty cool. Yes, they are. Now, that's an interesting point because they're more hunters that are abducted or that disappear hunting elk than any other animal. And it's not that there's more hunters hunting elk. There's more hunters hunting deer on the hall in the United States. But for some reason, there's more hunters that disappear hunting elk. And I've said this in my books before. Well, for as a hunter, one thing that I would say is that

when you're hunting elk, you're in the backcountry for the most part. You're in wild remote areas

a lot of is done on farms, a lot of is done on flat land, you know, a lot of tree-stand hunting.

“Deer, white-tailed deer specifically in America, North America, are the most hunted animal.”

But if you've ever gone, white-tail hunting, a lot of it is in and around farmland. And you've never

very rarely at least, you're hunting, white-tail deer in the mountains, remote mountain ranges. Meal deer, you hunt meal deer in remote mountain ranges. But white-tail deer, they tend to populate around humans and around agriculture. So that kind of makes sense if they want to be stealthy. If they're trying to not be detected by as many people, you would, you would probably, also, you probably, if you're going to abduct someone and be reasonably sure that no one was going

to see you do it, you would probably go where there's very few people and just some random guy

who's decided to hike up to 10,000 feet and chase a herd of elk.

Another thing I've heard from Carl is that he was told that these entities, whoever they are, have the ability to freeze time in space. And remember what I said, elk, the elk he was looking at, he said he shot and they didn't move. It's like they were frozen and they were frozen in that same position when he got on the craft. Time in space being that everything around him, nobody could walk in, nobody could walk out. It's like the time in space that he and the entity and the elk were in were

“frozen. So I think the grasp, but I've heard this before, it is a hard thing to grasp, but the”

people that speculate on how these advanced species, whatever they are, they're able to travel

that there's some sort of manipulation of space time that it's not as simple as like what we do, which is very crude. We do propulsion. We burn things and push stuff out the back and it makes stuff go forward, or we have an internal combustion engine that does the same thing. It makes explosions inside the engine, burns things, pushes the pistons around, forces the transmission, and it moves. What these things supposedly do, and again, this is all just crazy talk, but what they're

able to do is manipulate space time itself and instantaneously travel from one place to the next, because they have a control over the universe in a way that, with us, it's like completely theoretical.

“Like there's this woman that speculates that in the future some day with many, many, many”

advancements, and who knows how many years we will be able to travel, quantumly. Like the way quantum particles are entangled, she believes that perhaps the entire universe works that way, and that everything is connected, and that this thing that we have, this idea that the distance between stars is far too vast for a human to travel, because you can't travel past the speed of light. And if you did travel past the speed of light, it would still take, and even if you went like

two times the speed of light, three times the speed of light, it would still take thousands and thousands of years to just get to the closest planets outside of our solar system. And she thinks that one day, perhaps, if not humans or whatever is coming after humans, we'll be able to quantumly travel. And you would imagine that would involve some sort of manipulation of space and time that we can't quite understand. And we're just, we're just, we're talking about it like it's magic. But again,

if you were talking to someone from the 1400s about a cell phone, hey, I can face time my friend in Australia. Then go, what the fuck are you talking about? Well, I pick out this device in my pocket. That's as thin as a few slices of paper. And through that, I can, I can like stare at my friend, and he can see me and I can see him. Like that's magic. Here's talking crazy talk. There's nothing just no cord. There's nothing. Somehow another. There's like, what are you sending? That's

being received. And it comes into HD video with sound. And it perfectly lines up with the way the person's talking. You hear it in real time. That's crazy. How does it even make sense? But yeah, we just are so accustomed to it that it's normal. Oh, I'm getting a face time call for my friend. Oh, hey, what's up, buddy? You know, we think it's normal. And then you got to imagine if you could just push into the future and imagine thousands of years of innovation in

shout, you know, Bob's over there, 100 yards away. You have to put your hands. We're going to the left,

“you know, now you could just text him or you could call him. And that the ability to communicate at”

vast distances will one day be very similar to the way we travel. We can travel vast distances instantaneously. Part of the entanglement idea that you talked about. What if you're an Austin and I go back to Whitefish, Montana? And what if we had the ability to think, hey, Joe, I forgot to tell you this when I was on your show. And I told you by my mind, people would say, oh, that's stupid, that's ridiculous. But I've talked to people that are way smarter

than me that say the part of the entanglement is is that what if you're in space and you're on the far side of the moon? And what if we all have that ability right now to affect others in other places

and our thinking and our mind is really more powerful. And we are this spider web of entanglement

that we don't quite understand right now. And let me, the way this came from is George nap been on a show like 30 times. He had a guy named Colin Kellerher who was the head of all investigations for Bigelow at Skinwalker Ranch. And George said, hey, Dave, Kellerher wants you to come out to Las Vegas. He thinks some of the work that they're doing at the ranch right now overlaps with your work on missing people. So I came out to Las Vegas three or four times met with Kellerher.

And we talked about just what you're talking about right now. This overlapping of understanding consciousness because it's much more complex than some people are willing or even for us to understand. But what if what's happening on earth right now, whether it's abductions, cattle, mutilations, UFOs is really something that is so beyond us. We try to think and rational terms well they're taking us for our sperm or they're taking us for our eggs.

“But what if it's something a lot, a lot more deep than really we could comprehend right now?”

Like what? I don't know. I'm asking you, Joel. But his point being that all the time they spent almost 20 years at that ranch investigating things. And he tells me about this one incident. And he says, I've got a physicist up on the hill with another researcher. It's two o'clock in the morning. They're looking down at the meadow and they see this bright light. And this bright light starts to get bigger.

And if you tell your guy, he could pick it up right now on if you go to Amazon to the movie, American Sasquatch, man, method legend. It's my movie. We have it there. And it starts getting bigger. And one guy doesn't have night vision. The other guy does. And this round thing keeps getting bigger and bigger. Till eventually it's like you're looking down at tube. And he says, it's almost three

dimensional because you could see something at the far end of the tube. And the physicists just hand in the night vision back and they're sharing it. Eventually the tube gets to be about this big. That something twice the size of you and I could crawl through. All of a sudden they see something crawling down the tube. It crawls out. It jumps down onto the land. And they see it's so dark even with night vision

that they could just see a silhouette. And it's bipedal, seven or eight feet tall, all black and color. Is this it? No. Okay. Is that the documentary you're talking? No. It's not mine. Something different. Yeah. Sasquatch, man, method or monster. Is that it? That's it. Yeah. That's it. Okay.

“So this is your film. That is the film. But that's what I'm talking about. Where is it in the film? Do you”

remember? That's near the near the end, like three quarters of the way through it. It's with my interview with Keller and he's talking about it. And this thing, and then it walks away on two feet. And when we talk about this, he said, does it make any sense to us? You know, did we just see a portal open up and an entity from another dimension crawl through into our dimension? And is that the access point that they're using? And can they open this at certain times and close it at certain

times at will? And really, that was the first time that I had heard this from someone credible

the amount of energy it takes to open a portal is somebody times greater than an atom bomb

that it doesn't make sense that that could be the answer to this. Well, maybe their answer to what a portal is as different. But what these guys saw does make a lot of sense to us. Well, the whole bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of sense. One of the reasons why the bigfoot thing does make a lot of sense is that Native Americans don't have a lot of mythological creatures. It's not like they have a ton of dragons and demons and pixies and wood sprites. There's not, but there's over a hunt.

Isn't what? Didn't we look this up? The name for Sasquatch? There's like 50 different names that they have for this one thing that they universally described as a bipedal, hairy, ape-like creature that's eight to ten feet tall. And there's so many sightings of this one thing. It's not like people keep talking about different animals. Like, I saw an elephant that has six

legs. No, it's always bipedal hominids. It's weird. It's a weird so because like,

I've never seen compelling bigfoot footage. It all looks bullshit. The Patterson footage,

“I think, is nonsense. I think it's a guy on a monkey suit for sure. I think most of what you see”

in terms of like photographic evidence is nonsense. But there's too many stories. There's too many stories for me to completely dismiss it. And I've always wondered if it's some sort of an interdimensional experience. And that this thing may be the fact that it's in the woods and that they happen under heightened awareness because you're in the woods and you're probably very nervous and freaked out. So you're probably in a very bizarre state of mind. And all of a

sudden you encounter something that makes zero sense. And the same thing gets encountered by people over and over again. And you could write that enough. You're a cynical person or a rational person, which I'm neither on those. You could write it off and you could say, well, there's an archetype

“people have talked about this creature for so long that that's what you expect to see. So that's”

to make yourself say. You know, maybe, maybe it's a bear that walks on two legs because we know they do that, particularly black bears. They walk on two legs all the time. I've seen them walk on two legs. It's very weird. But they don't describe it like a bear. They describe it like an ape. They say it has long arms like an ape and that it looks at you and that these things exist in the forest, like deep in the forest where there's no people. And then when people go out there, they encounter

them. And the story is just, it's like the UFO abduction story. It's so similar. It's so similar,

over and over again, like a very similar story. And you've always got to separate the cookie stories.

Because there's always a bunch of crazy people that make things up. There's a bunch of people that are probably on psychiatric drugs or they're tripping balls on mushrooms or whatever it is. There's a bunch of people that see things that maybe aren't there at all. But then there's enough of these stories where you've got to go ban if just one of these is true.

“One out of a hundred. And then there's thousands of them. Like how what is going on?”

Not an ape. It's not a gorilla. If it was, we'd have it in the zoo. And we don't. The, it walks like a man, ape and gorilla is don't walk like a man. Well, Chuck can't put gigantic epitheticists did, right? No. It didn't. There's no evidence it was bipedal at all. I thought it was the jaw structure. So they have one piece of jaw in a bunch of teeth. And there's a lot of theories behind that. But there's no evidence it was bipedal. Oh, that's

number one. Number two, there's no evidence it's ever been in North America. Right. But the sightings that they find of this thing are in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest primarily. This is where you get a lot of them. And the idea would be that when the bearing land bridge was around before the Ice Age or during the Ice Age, when the ocean levels are much lower and there's more land exposed, that these things could walk across Asia.

Like we know the short face bare did. And we also know people made it from Siberia into North America. So let's just, let's just take gigantic epithicus. That wouldn't be some an

Correct. So let's, let's get back to that. But before you go on. But there's also

“Jacque Antopithecus. They found less than 100 years ago. So these, I believe there are”

anthropologists and they were searching for different bones in an apothecary shop in China and they found a molar that was extraordinarily large, like way too large. It was a primate molar and they were like, what is this? And so they took them to where they found it and then as they started digging, they found some more bones and some different things. How much stuff have they found

of Gigantopithecus? Only draws and teeth. That's it. Now imagine if they never found that.

Here's a question. If they never found any of that stuff, show me what they got? It says with the half here. Okay. We only have jaws and teeth for Gigantopithecus, not pelvis, leg bones or full skeleton. So it's exact gate. Can't be observed directly,

“researchers infer its posture and locomotion by comparing its anatomy and evolutionary”

relationships with living great apes, especially orangutans, which are all quadrupedal and not habitual bipeds. So why do they think it's okay? No Gigantopithecus is not thought to have

been bipedal. Scientific consensus is that it was a large, mostly quadrupedal ape. So why does

some people say it's bipedal? Where the idea came from? Okay, a minority of researchers and many big foot enthusiasts have proposed a bipedal Gigantopithecus often linking it to Sasquath, but those arguments rely on speculative interpretations of jaw shape rather than solid, post-cranial fossils. These bipedal reconstructions are generally rejected by specialists in fossil apes, regardless highly unlikely given current evidence. So perplexity,

“our AI sponsor says no. Says big foot something different. So, but the thing is, if Gigantopithecus”

was a real thing, and all we have is these a tiny amount of fossilized bones and teeth. How many things make fossils? Very few. Very few. So there very well could have been a bipedal ape like a human that was much larger. I mean, we know at one point in time bipedal hominids like, you know, the early versions of human beings were very hairy, and some of them were larger than us. We just don't have fossils, because most things don't leave fossils. Like, the fossil record is

incredibly incomplete, right? Yeah. So, you know, in East Texas, there's a lot of big foot sightings. Really? East Texas? East Texas. This episode is brought to you by visible. Spring is in the air, which means time for some spring cleaning. We're cleaning out the garage,

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wireless with visible, head to visible.com to get started, terms apply, limited time offer, subject to change, see visible.com for plan features and network management details. The kind of terrain, mushy, swampy, wet, right on the border, east Texas. Tennessee, the border of what Oklahoma? No, down in the ocean. So when you talked about, you were talking about Alaska, Pacific Northwest, a lot of big foot sightings. A lot of big foot sightings in Tennessee too,

Kentucky, and a lot of moonshine, Kentucky, Tennessee too. Yes, a lot of people smoke and crank. Yes. So after I was a policeman, I had a master's degree, worked technology for a while, and master's in HR, and I ran HR organizations. Did that for five, six, seven years? I said I had enough, and I'm leaving. I had young kids, so I was going to leave with my family and have fun. Two founders of this company, Super Rich, come to me and they say, hey Dave, we got a job for you.

each other. They grew up in different parts. They went up into the woods with their families,

“backpacking, camping, having fun. They got up in the middle of the night, taken leak, and independently,”

didn't know each other. They saw a big foot. They found each other. They formed this company, made millions of dollars, one day they're at lunch, and they start talking to each other, and they had the same experience. They said, wow, that's freaking bizarre. So let's get to the bottom of it. So I'm leaving. They know I have an investigative background. They said, hey, we're going to hire you. We want you to go find out if it's true,

false or hoax. They hired you to go check to see if Bigfoot was real. Flip the whole bill. They said, you can do it at your own pace. Oh, and well, we'll pay for everything. I said,

not interested. They came back to me like four or five times. Finally, at the end of a year,

my wife is divorcing me. I now have only 50% custody. I have 50% of my life open to do whatever I want. They came at me again. I said, okay, I'm going to shorten it down to from what took five years to five minutes. Tennessee, the Great Smoking Out National Park. There was a man there named Scott Carpenter. Scott, Resta Sol, has since died, but he took me into an area in the park. And he said, Dave, this is the part where I've had all kinds of evidence.

“What kind of evidence? Footprints, hair, hair, hair. So is he ever had the hair analyzed?”

Okay. So we start talking about it. How can we get a good sample of hair? So I said, you know, with bare, they take bare samples and DNA samples from bare all the time. Let's try this. Let's take some packaging tape, wrap it inside out on the outside of a tree. Put something at the fork of the tree, some kind of food, whatever. Honey, something. If they lean up against the tree, it's going to pull the hair out, which we need the follicle for the DNA. Let's see if that works.

She says, "Bring it." We did it. It worked. In that area, we tracks. Now, just so you know, and everyone else knows, there's hair and fiber experts in the world. And they test to find superior court all the time. Like out in the lobby, you have all these different kinds of animals. If we took a hair from one animal and gave it to a hair and fiber expert, he could tell you within two minutes what animal that came from. Because every hair looks different. So we took those hairs

went to a hair and fiber expert and they said, "Well, where'd you get that?" And I know what you mean.

We've never seen that hair before. It's not classified. It doesn't exist.

Okay, so that means we're on to something. So then I chose it up follicle. Can they do a DNA on her or is it just hair? They did. Okay. They did. So I was living in California at the time. I called the University of California Davis, the biggest animal lab in the world. And they said, "Well, you got it." I explained they said, "Bigfoot, we're not touching it. We don't want anything to deal with it." I went to University of Texas, UC Davis. I went to like six or seven. No one would touch it.

But then I found a woman that testified in the courts here in Texas as a DNA expert. I call her up. Her name is Melba Ketchem. Dr. Ketchem, I have this sample here. Would you be willing to do DNA analysis on it? Absolutely. It's going to cost you so many thousands of dollars. I go, "No problem. We've got somebody who's going to pay." So she goes, "Okay, let's do one better." Dave sent me the sample. Let me look at it first. I'm going to give it to

my her and fiber expert. They look at it. Her and fiber expert says, "It's nothing we've ever seen.

So that's good." So she goes, "Okay, here's what we're going to do. Can you get any more samples?"

I said, "I have an idea. Let me try." So I go on coast to coast. And I laid it out. I said, "Hey, we have these samples. We're looking for hair samples. Don't bullshit us because we'll know right away." Send us hair samples with everything attached. And we're going to send it to a lab. You don't have to pay the bill. We've got 125 valid samples that we're not deer and a

“low bear, whatever. She goes through the DNA analysis on it. I think it costs us $400,000 at the end of”

the day. It's a lot less expensive now. So hair will give you mitochondrial DNA from the maternal side, but it won't give you fraternal DNA from the father's side. That you need nuclear DNA,

12 to 15,000 years to the Middle East on the mother's side. Father's side. It doesn't

“exist in Jen Bank. 352 billion base pairs of DNA does not exist. The father's DNA does not exist.”

Jen Bank says it's impossible. Since that time, other people have come forward and said, hey, you know, on the long-gated skulls? We've had the same problem. We can't find the fraternal DNA just like you. That's a guy named L.A. Marzuli that was during the research there. And then Ron Morhead, who's doing other DNA studies on elongated skulls in South America, said the same thing. That's odd, Dave. So the maternal, we understand. The fraternal, we don't. And

the DNA, they did a paper about it. It's online. Have a lot of people say, oh, you know what? That's BS. It's bad. But nobody else has ever done a test. And I could get you more here within

“two weeks if we wanted to. Nobody wants to test it. I'll test it. What do we have to do? The truth is,”

the truth is, the truth is, Jamie, ready to go? Let's go. Let's get some tape. The truth is,

it'll all come back the same. And I believe that the researchers who have done it, they've gotten the same results. And so, if you say that on the fraternal side, it doesn't exist. On the maternal side, it's showing thousands it would explain that again. So like, I'm Greek. So they could, they could chase my DNA backwards through time to, I don't know, Greece, right, 10, 15,000 years ago. Well, they were able to chase the maternal side back to the Middle

East, 12 to 15,000 years. And what did they say it was? That's all they said. But what they're saying

is, is that, and a lot of people have picked up on this. Well, that has a lot of religious connotations

to it. Why does it have religious connotations to it? Because of the Middle East, 12 to 15,000 years. Right. But why is that religious? It's a part of the world, 12 to 15,000 years ago. What gives it religious connotations, other than the fact that that's the origins of a lot of religions. That's it. Right. But it's also humans and different animals live there. Like, there's probably deer down there that weren't religious at all. And, you know, they're DNA tracks back to that, too.

A specific results she reported. She claimed 111 samples from 34 North American sites produced two patterns. Human, MTDNA and unusual are novel nuclear sequences that supposedly did not match known animals. Her interpretation was that about 15,000 years ago, an unknown hominin male population interbred with modern human females, leading to a hybrid lineage whose descendants are today's supposed Sasquatch. How and where it was published. They did not appear in a normal

established peer-reviewed journal. Instead, it was put into an obscure outlet called Denobo Scientific Journal, which catch them herself effectively controlled to get the paper online. Science reporters and skeptics noted the absence of transparent peer review, the paywall for self-published paper, and the lack of independent labs reproducing her findings. But did independent labs try to reproduce her findings? That's the question. Scientific criticism. Genetics,

geneticists, and forensic biologists who examined the data and methodology have repeatedly pointed to contamination and poor lab practice as the most likely explanation for her hybrid sequences. Analysis noted that the MTDNA being 100% modern human is exactly what you'd expect from contaminated or human origin samples, and that the odd nuclear sequences are consistent with mixed DNA, sequencing errors, or low-quality data, not a new species. Current status over DNA claims,

no major genetics lab or independent research group has replicated catch-emns results, or confirmed a novel hominin genome corresponding to bigfoot. In mainstream science, her studies treated as an example of flawed junk science, interesting to bigfoot enthusiasts, but offering

“no accepted evidence that Sasquatch exists. But here's the thing, did anybody”

try to test those things? No. And let me explain, that argument they just used. They're talking

Right. Well, Joe, my dad was Russian. The contaminated sample which I'll on the maternal side,

“Russian. Right. It wouldn't show nothing. Right. That's why that argument makes no sense.”

Well, I'm not a geneticist, so I don't know if it makes sense. Yeah. You know, I'm saying, like if you could say, oh, this is why, you know, if you had someone who understood DNA and contamination and the whole process, they could maybe explain it in a better way. So what the idea that humans interpret with things is not a new idea. You know, I read something recently. I actually watched a YouTube video and then read an article. I think we talked about this.

Pretty sure we did. Where they believe that Neanderthall, they used to think that Neanderthall is a

subspecies like a different version of humans and they interpret with us. There's a group of people that now are speculating that Neanderthall was the result of humans breeding with another ancient hominant and that that created Neanderthall. So it's not that we interpret with Neanderthall, but that humans actually created Neanderthall by breeding with this other hominant.

“So there's only one country in the world that ever took this topic seriously, which country?”

Russia. They took their science academy and took the five top scientists. This happened 40 years ago

and they started studying what was called al-Masty. The same as our big foot. Okay. And

I'm not bullshitting you. This is 100% true. Two of their scientists came to the US. I met one of them at a conference in Colorado seven or eight years ago. And I walk into the room and he's holding both of my books as I walk in and he says, Dave, you're the only guy to tell the truth out of everybody out here. What you're saying about the DNA, what you're saying about the the lineage is a hundred percent fact. It's what we found. And we know that they aren't any kind of

ape or gorilla. It's it's a human hybrid that people don't understand. Hmm. So did the Russians think that it exists currently? 100%. So how are they hiding? How are they hiding? Yeah. So if you think about, we don't even have the ability to do something with a DNA like they like whatever this is. It's making a hybrid. You're right. Okay. So something far greater than us has learned a manipulate DNA. And if you think that big foot is interdimensional, then wherever that came from,

probably makes a whole lot more sense scientifically than something organically made here. And there is therein-wise the reason that we've haven't found a body. It can move in and out like it did through that tube. It's in Walker Ranch. And there's footage in our movie of what appears to be a big foot evaporating into nothingness. What footage is this? Film by Scott Carpenter. What is

“it called? What's the same one that we're just talking about? American Sasquatch. Can we see that footage?”

Where's that in the film? It's during my interview with Scott. And so who took this footage? Scott. And what year was this taken? Sometime in the last 10 years. Okay. And it shows something evaporating like that there's it looks like a big foot evaporating into nothing. What you see is something kind of like smokiness looking down a trail and then it slowly evolves to look like something that you and I would call a big foot. Okay. So what you're saying is that we're not dealing with a

standard biological organism. We're dealing with something that's probably the product of some advanced species and that they've created this thing and this thing has the ability to move in ways and appear and reappear in ways that don't make any sense to us. Correct. Well that would make sense if it was true and again putting that fucking tin foil hat on tight right now. That would make sense if you think about how many sightings there are and that there are no

bones and there's no body, no one's found anything, there's nothing. There has been footprints,

like made a fake footprint. The problem is there's dermal ridges on these footprints. Some of them

“exhibit what's very similar to fingerprints and that's very strange and these are going back”

decades. So super hard to reproduce something like that and someone you would have to be a very, very advanced person and have some sort of incredible ability to manipulate material science just to be able to create something that recreates a dermal ridge and then use it and make footprints with it that are similar to what like a creature would make. It was very heavy moving to the ground and pressing down on moist ground or mud and leaving footprints that have

fingerprints in it. It's weird because these are not it's not something like you know I

weigh like 205 pounds or something like that like it's not like that. It's like something that weighs like 700 pounds like deep into the ground. It's weird abnormally heavy. Yeah I abnormally having large feet but again no bones no nothing and the only DNA it's like you know there's it's disputed but of course people are going to dispute everything. No one's going to look at it and go this is definitely not human. You know they're going to go well who did this how

she do it you know oh this is a lab that's like not not doing it well and they're publishing

“in some journal behind a pay while this is nonsense but then you have to think well okay but”

are any other reputable labs these reputable labs are they interested in doing this work have they done the work have they taken the same stuff and done it through the exact same process but not found the same results that she had or is there no other studies? Seems like there's no other legitimate studies of the same DNA. Dr. Ketchum took that DNA to four certified labs one of them was the University of Texas and all of those labs got the same result. She extracted it

they did the analysis she did the comparison to Jen Bank and she did this all herself or she had other scientists do it so she wrote a white paper and six different PhDs wrote it. The the slam job there I think it's interesting because have you heard of an organization called BFRO no biggest organization in the United States for bigfoot sightings oh okay bigfoot research organization yeah yeah I from finding bigfoot right right so a man named Wally Hersham

was their benefactor he gave a millions of dollars over the years and he they had one job fine DNA 10 15 years they said they couldn't find it we found it less than a year Wally came over when we had the DNA and looked at the results met with Dr. Ketchum said I am completely done you guys have proven to me exactly what it is I now know what it is pulled all of his funding at that point he was out of the bigfoot world and you guys you guys

did what nobody else could do how come there's no good camera trap photos you know like there's a lot of trail cameras out there that hunters use how come there's no good trail camp photos do you

“think the idea is that these things know that cameras are there so I think they have that ability”

to look in the infrared range and they just stay away well if they are from somewhere else and you know we're assuming they're primitive because they're they're covered in hair but would if they have some sort of psychic ability or some sort of intellect beyond what we would attach to an ape and they understand what cameras are so do you know what the hitchhiker effect is no so it's skinwalker ranch the investigators coming on to that ranch

when they left and they went home they took those entities home with them and the entities didn't ever bother the scientists they bothered the relatives the wives did it spooky things they'd come around show up in the home chase the kids around in the yard look on entities a variety of things sometimes

orbs sometimes silhouettes of people but things that never happened before happened after the

scientists went home and they talked about it on their show and it's happened a lot one of the things that happens to people that study bigfoot is they have the same hitchhiker effect it doesn't

or something there's something there's some kind of effect there that they'll they'll follow you

wherever you go as an example I live kind in the middle of nowhere and there's big woods behind my house and I was walking behind the house one day one track middle of a muddy trail no other tracks any place else 17 inches just one track I can't tell you how many times other friends of mine

“and researchers have had the exact same thing happened in the movie I interviewed I think seven”

or eight researchers all the best ones they all say this has happened to them it's that hitchhiker effect that they talk about it skinwalker ranch which goes to the point of it being something

extra dimensional I went to skinwalker ranch my friend Duncan a few years back we I was doing

the show for the sci-fi channel called Joe Rogan questions everything and one of the things we did was we went to skinwalker ranch and we talked to a bunch of people there and you know some of them were just clearly full shit but there was this one guy who was not and he didn't have a lot of stories but he said there was this one experience that he had where these orbs made it into his house and this orb flew through his wall was inside of his home and it seemed like it was interacting

with him and then it was like paused frozen in front of them and then took off this guy seemed like

a completely rational regular guy he like I said he didn't have a bunch of crazy stories about

other things I forget what his job was it was a regular job regular guy seemed totally normal to talk to but he said he had this one inexplicable experience said it was very strange he said this thing

“just flew into his home he said it was like I think he said it was like the size of a softball”

maybe a little larger and it seemed like it was interacting with them so one of the people I interviewed for the movie was a former Navajo Ranger you ever hear of those yes so they went to the federal law enforcement training center full law enforcement credentials super smart guy he comes back he works ten fifteen years for the Navajo Rangers one day the lieutenant calls him in he and his partner they said you got a new assignment oh what's that you're gonna do nothing but investigate big

foot and UFOs I'd be like fuck yeah I don't want it I didn't sign up for that he goes I don't care that's your new job because you guys are the two most credible people I have you're going to go do that well because why they had some sort of a suspicion well they had tons of calls about big footprint on the property UFOs showing up over property all the above okay and they wanted some expertise in that team so he and his friend start investigating bigfoot and all of the things I've

just told you happened to him and his partner over those years big they'd get a call at a lady's house that she just saw a bigfoot on her back porch all the dogs are afraid they're hiding under the porch he goes there and he finds a track straight line one thing about bigfoot as you and I would walk

“down a street we walk staggeredly bigfoot walks one foot right in front of the other and that's how”

you'll know it's real doesn't walk staggered like you and me one walks like it's doing a D do D you I check point exactly yes like it's walking on a balance being huh and the he talked about the stride was four five feet he goes I couldn't do it and just like he was saying that the track was so deep in the soil they couldn't match it he said it had to been hundreds and hundreds of pounds that's just one thing but over the years they started to make this association between bigfoot and UFOs they did

this all on their own and then he talked about the native American belief well native Americans believe that they came from the stars each tribe does and just like you said all of the tribes have a different name for these yeah but nobody no tribe believes it's an animal really no tribe believes it's an animal what do they think it is it's a human it's an offshoot there's a very they think it came from the stars they came from the stars there's a very very famous set of stories coming out of the Pacific

Northwest out of the 1920s and 30s where a tribe of Native Americans here that there's some people walking down a trail through the woods bigfoot walks in front of them starts throwing rocks at him doesn't hit him throwing rocks at him the people go home they tell the sheriff hey these huge

the tribe here's about this in Joe it makes no sense they have a press conference

“swears on talking to you and three tribes in the Pacific Northwest have a press conference and it's”

in the Oregonian newspaper on the front page when i found it i said how come no other bigfoot

researchers never talked about this why because it doesn't support their belief system that it's

and they think it's in a per gorilla and here the tribe said it's a tribe of people we've traded with them at times why they trade things with us at times they give you back uh sometimes they they will give them ornaments or certain kinds of foods that they have a tough time getting and they will come back and they will give them certain kinds of food animals etc but in this story on the front page of the Oregonian they talk about this and when i've gone to the Pacific Northwest

and Joe there's not one tribe up there the beliefs are an animal none of them do

“and they're the ones that have lived with them and handed these stories down over the ages”

and they all think that they come from somewhere else yes how do they think they got here what's their like origin story so there's a man who owned a herd of cattle and was wintering them on the Oregon California border up north of crescent city and every year he done this this one year this is another article in the paper this one year he's they winner with the Native Americans there he sees a native American walking with a tray of food doesn't think

much of it the first day second day sees the guy walk up into the mountains up to this cliff area

guy comes back and he says hey what's that for and goes I can't talk to you about that so he goes straight to the chief he owns all the cattle he's working with the Native Americans

“he goes to the chief chief goes we've got hairy moon up there hairy moon he goes yeah”

this thing came and it comes every couple months there's usually two of them that come together because what do you mean he says we see a moon come out of the sky it's very bright it comes down near the land and these two jump out of the moon and they're friendly they get along with us

and they stay there and we feed them sometimes so that was in like 1885 newspaper

and you think about that story how else would they describe and or say right there's no way to describe it back then right it comes down these things jump out of it and they run into the woods and the Native Americans have been dealing with them for all these years that's that's really the story wow now the rational part of me of course wants to call bullshit but the part that's willing to speculate again if so many people are having this very similar

experience with this tall hairy ape-like thing in the woods you got to wonder like why is it the same thing like why is it over and over again and why are the Native Americans have so many different names for this and it went again they don't have a bunch of mythical animals it's only that tons of these like weird things that no one's ever seen before the dragons and no just one thing well they do they do have these things called little people fear of those hmm what are those

that's very odd something that kind of looks like you and me but they're only about three feet tall and they look like miniature kind of like dwarves well people have those experiences when they do mushrooms yeah but you know that there's a specific mushroom that when you take it everyone sees little tiny people yeah this is there was a recent article about this you can find that Jamie there's one very specific type of hallucinogenic mushroom where when you take it universally

everyone experiences little tiny people like little like you know elves from ancient stories I mean why why is that so common like what is that they saw them on their dishes when eating the mushrooms that make people hallucinate dozens of tiny humans now we're saying hallucinate but we don't I mean if everyone's seeing the same exact vision that's very strange every year doctors at a hospital in the Yunnan province of China brace themselves for an influx of

people with an unusual complaint the patients coming with strikingly odd symptom visions of

the hospital treats hundreds of these cases every year all share a common culprit

“I don't know I say this Lamau Lamau Azia Tika Aziyatika oh okay Aziyatika do Ramau”

whatever it is land L a N M a O a Aziyatika a type of mushroom that forms symbiotic relationships the pintries in nearby forest and is locally popular food known for its savory umami pack flavor in Yunnan uh El Aziyatika is sold in markets it appears on restaurant menus and is served at home during peak mushroom season between June and August one must be careful to cook it thoroughly though otherwise the hallucinations will sit in or don't cook it at all pussy come on don't you want to see the

elves why would you why would you cook it outside of Yunnan in a couple other places the strange

mushroom is largely an enigma there are many accounts of the existence of this psychedelic

“mushroom and many people who looked for it but they never found the species says uh Giuliano”

Furchi a psychologist and the founder and executive of the fungi federation a non-profit group dedicated to discovering documenting and conserving fungi uh this person a dumb dumb narrow dumb narrow is on a quest to solve the decades old mystery about this fungi species and identify the unknown compound responsible for its unusually similar hallucinations as well as what

it can potentially teach us about the human brain you know the thing is like is it teaching us something

about the human brain or is it allowing you to see something that's actually there all the time what's at the bottom of that little opution oh when I typed it in the perplexity there's at least one

“oh type of chalk tall I have something yeah says many indigenous nations have their own name for”

little people and the English phrase is just a loose umbrella term each language has specific words it usually means something like little people dwarves or forest people the Cherokee have it whew what's that word you and we soon soon soon's die um usually translated as little people chalk tall they have another crazy word uh little people and forest dwelling type called kawi anu kasha or forest dweller chick saw have them for little people small supernatural beings yeah there's so many of these

things like uh describes a little person who provides corn and medicinal plants well many many many many people who have taken mushrooms see little tiny people see little elves and in fact you know that is a core part of the Santa Claus mystery you know Santa Claus do you ever seen the relationship between Santa Claus and a mushroom called the amnita mascara hurt you know that whole thing yeah but one of the weird things about Santa Claus is if you go back and look

at old Christmas art like Christmas art from the turn of the century all of it has amnita mascara mushrooms in it and elves it's very weird that you would connect Christmas with elves and a known hallucinogenic mushroom and that these little elves and these big mushrooms are all together and it's Merry Christmas see if you could find some of those old they're they're really weird because it's like well how did we forget that and how did that go away and there's also the way Santa

Claus looks himself Santa Claus with his red outfit with his bright red outfit with the white cuffs and the white buttons the mushroom itself is bright red with white spots on it like look at these look how weird that is look Santa Claus with psychedelic mushrooms gotta be careful a little bit now because we've talked about it some of it has to have been created oh yeah 100% you know like we've fucked up the whole world it's extremely like that's brand new is it brand new that's

not vintage look at those awesome he sure I made it yeah it's on Etsy yeah probably but some of the old ones are real like the one in the middle is legit like that one's legit right there you just put up there and that one's from somewhere else look at that how crazy is that I wrote an article for my website Santa Claus was a mushroom along time ago about this and I probably fucked up the whole

up there with the foreign language on it where it says psychedel yeah that one like how weird is that

“that these little elves are carrying these giant psychedelic mushrooms with them and they're”

walking off with it and this has to do with Christmas how why does Christmas have to do with psychedelic mushrooms the question is are these compounds are you hallucinating when you take these compounds or is it opening up your vision to see things that are there all the time anyway good question right and like how many people have gone and taken mushrooms in the woods and seen big foot it's another question like how many people have taken psychedelic compounds that dissolve the ego completely put

you in a different set of different space in terms of your headspace and then you're able to see

things perhaps that are there all the time anyway the big foot one is so weird because I always

wanted to dismiss it the rational part of me wants to go oh shut up it's all nonsense I go back

“and forth with big foot and then the other part of me goes too many people too many people see the”

same thing too many people about that they can't all be crazy or liars they can't all be and if they're not then like what is that thing and why why is there no dead body why is there well maybe because it's not the same as we are maybe it comes from somewhere else and maybe that is the whole the whole experience that the whole experience is weird and that you really

can't quantify it you can't you can't talk about it the same way you talk about like oh you know

I know we're a sloth lives you know it's like it's a different kind of a creature so I've been around some people that say they believe that we're part of a simulation and part of that simulation is you get enough coins and you can drop in a new entity in the game that can

“screw with you oh boy you get the right mushrooms you see little people crawling up your chair”

or let's let's see how this guy handles a big foot walking in front of him right yeah see how much as blood pressure goes up right yeah well it's also whatever we're doing in this as a human being going through this life you know you have a certain understanding of what's real and what's not real and what to expect and what not to expect based on your life experiences based on whatever but he else is telling you about the world around you and you kind of categorize

everything into what's real and what you what you're going to experience walking through this world but just what we know about the material world is so bizarre which is what we know about subatomic particles just what we know about the very nature of matter itself that's all energy condensed in in different weird ways and that most of what atoms are is empty space and that up a particle except on particle can exist appear and disappear we don't know where they're going

they can appear they can be both moving they can be moving and still at the same time they can be in a place of superposition like what are we talking about with just reality itself reality itself the lowest observable the smallest the deepest we can look at it it's fucking magic like reality itself is magic and then you have the the weirdness of the observer effect that when you when you pay attention to particles they they behave differently that's right

and that there's some sort of research that shows that we somehow another we can actually affect particles in the past like quantum physicists talk about this not cooks like me but quantum physicists talk about that there's some sort of evidence that the observer effect can affect things in the past well how far in the past if it's only a few seconds is it a millisecond and what is it limited to that or is it not like is it the whole world flexible is everything

malleable is everything dependent upon consciousness and then what is consciousness is it simply what's in between your ears or are you tuning in to consciousness and it's just the limitations of your radio that's making the world around you shape into the form that you currently see and maybe that is why when you add things to that radio like psychedelic mushrooms like that ones that make you see the little people or the ones that make you see elves at Santa Claus

you know we I think we get we get real arrogant when we talk about what reality is

state is essentially insane and impossible it's magic friend of mine the other day said hey Dave

“once you go with me I'm gonna go do ayahuasca again he's done it a few times and he says Dave it'll”

open up your mind of things that you just don't understand that are real and it goes I've done it a

couple times I've had replicate seeing the same thing multiple multiple times that I know I could never

see without it. Have you ever done it? I have not done ayahuasca but ayahuasca is the orally active form of DMT and I've done that yeah is your experience positive? Yeah I've never had negative experience but it is very strange and it feels more real than reality itself and you are 100% communicating with creatures some beings things that are they they they appear to be living geometric patterns I've had multiple experiences with gestures with things that look like

gestures where they're giving me the finger and and they were basically telling me that I take myself too seriously they were like fuck you and then I like I was like what and then I was like oh I get it and like right they were like telling me like hey yeah you take yourself too seriously

“I was like oh here right you're right like yeah you have to be very careful with the experience”

because if you're a control freak if you can't just let go you can lose your marbles you can really go crazy and it's not really recommended to anybody that has a slippery hold on reality already like people with psychiatric conditions and people that are already kind of fucked up but if you're reasonably stable and you are calm and rational and you can just let go it is a wild experience it's a wild experience that should not be illegal and should probably be studied and understood

what was the guy that we had on recently Jamie the guy who was doing Andrew Gallamore how he says name who was doing those um they're setting it up on a country where it's legal and they're doing IV DMT trips that last like five hours and these people they go and they have this experience and

“when they do it they all encounter similar places similar beings and similar patterns like they”

come back with very similar stores like they're making a map of the territory of whatever this is that you're doing and they all have the exact same way of describing it which similar to where I described it before I ever heard of any of this is that it feels more real than reality itself reality itself seems very dull and very squishy and not not crisp if that's the way to say it whereas the DMT experience is very vivid the colors are insanely bright the experience that you get

by encountering whatever these creatures seems way more powerful than any kind of experience that

you have in normal everyday consciousness so does that drug open some kind of door or receiver or drink or drug but the problem with calling it a drug is the human brain makes it so the Terrence McKenna had a great line he said if DMT is a drug everyone's holding because you get to make something illegal that's produced by the human body like we know for a fact it's produced in the brain we know for a fact that the mind actually makes this compound which is

the most potent psychedelic compound known demand it's very weird when the human mind the human brain rather makes a psychedelic compound that's the most potent compound known demand

not just that but it exists in thousands of different plants the problem is when we eat them

it gets broken down in our gut by mono aiming oxidase like there's a bunch of different great like phalaris grass is very rich in it the cation tree is very rich in it in fact there's some scholars from Jerusalem that believe that the story of Moses in the burning bush was Moses burning the acacia bush which has DMT in it and experiencing God which completely tracks if you think about it like this is what the experience feels like it feels like you're dealing with an

all powerful entity that's filled with love and understanding and knows you better than you know yourself and gives you guidelines on how to live life and that Moses came back from this experience with these commandments how to live life that we all agreed today we look at those commandments like

my dog laying next to me and the dogs looking down the hallway and my kitchen and I've got a great

“parenties and she's just laying there looking then like one every four or five days she'll just jump”

up like ten o'clock at night and start growling at something down the hall a little people I don't know

what it is she sees something we don't see so are they always there it's a good question and what

can the animal see that we can't because they definitely see things that we can they experience things they mean their senses are so different than ours we just assume that we both live in the same world but we clearly don't dogs live in a different world than us the the world that they experiences rich with smells and sounds and they hear things and they smell things that we could even imagine what they are yeah these uh the the weird thing about DMT is that someone figured out

in the Amazon thousands of thousands of thousands of years ago no one even knows when how to

“make this plant orally active so what they did is they took the the leaves of one plant and the”

roots of the other so one of the plants contains dimethyl trip to mean and the other one contains harming which is an MAO inhibitor mono amine oxidase inhibitor and this MAO inhibitor allows DMT to be orally active whereas if you just ate that plant the mono amine oxidase and you're

gut would break the plant down and you would never experience the DMT trip like how how do they

figure out how to do that and you ask them they tell them the plants told them how to do it yeah right like what but when you think about people that were living in this incredibly rich life fill jungle for thousands and thousands and thousands of years and with no contact with the western world as we know it today right so this is thousands of years ago they're living in they have the subsistence lifestyle living with animals and plants and fish and they probably are deeply entuned

with the jungle and deeply entoon with the wildlife and the plants in a way that we can't even

possibly understand and that we probably dulled all those senses or they've attribute to a point

you know where we just we just assume that everybody sees the world the way we do and I don't think those people did or do 100% they all have they all talk about experiences with entities from

“somewhere else too yes yeah this was a very weird world out there and that's why you know”

when someone tells a story about being abducted by a craft from another dimension it's so easy to just dismiss them it's so easy to just throw it all away but I mean like I was watching Fox news yesterday where they were talking about the different kinds of entities that the United States government hasn't counted did you see that I saw like what have you said did you say that you're Jeremy but I've been waiting to sit I'd show you this thing that was part of the

movie he shows on this I have it on the screen that's the box if you will the trans parent box that Carl who we talked about earlier this take it into oh Jesus we're used once he was in there hold this though because I got a peek we'll come right back and we'll talk about this box I got a people bad we're back all right so we were at this portal thing this guy so he had the trans parent which I would say is like you know trans parent cube this is what he described probably

could have his parents yes so he said he described that showing up and a six foot tall figure came out and a black jumpsuit to come there but said telepathically come with me he got in it and there he saw his targeted elk frozen in beams of light alongside five figures human like figures that seemed more spectral than alive stiff unblinking like passengers in stasis and then the ship shifted we took him 163 thousand light years away and ended up on a tower on a very

planet where they fixed all of his elements a tower on an alien planet under a violet sky yeah and then they said like they're not you're not suitable they don't we can't use you sorry because of his because he's got no giz and then he was found miles away sort of just like how Travis Wallace found whoa hypnosis sessions later revealed more what's his name also I use that's the organ quotes alien that'd be the entity are you so one okay

kind we're experimenting on humans and animals possibly for genetic or dimensional purposes

babbling about lights and voices in impossible terrain yeah whoa so his truck was just placed in a

place where it couldn't get to correct there's a bunch of pictures that I don't know if I'm imagining a he drew some of these because in that video no brothers are photos no that's that's he holds up this photo so I think he drew this right so he's an older man and drew what he remembered so little bit of leeway so he drew the one there and then someone did an artist recreation oh look at that weird like weird arm like a knife or an arm or something so he said he thought

that those were almost robotic interesting well that kind of makes sense right that eventually being this is the photos of the bullet it kind of makes sense that eventually we would realize like

why would we travel places but we could just make like an artificial person to do it and

“report back to us everything why risk a human's life 100% which is all about to do but that's what”

Elon's doing to the moon he's gonna send the robots up to make the stuff on the moon so he's using people of course you don't need a date they don't need air that makes sense why he's canceling the model s and you know that in the act of work yeah get those optimist rope because he's transformed to some of his factories they they've stopped the model s in the model x and they're using it to make these optimist robots instead that factory and then these robots are gonna

fly to the moon if we had that idea no one else like you know of course when else has had that same yeah of course it makes sense so he he got a sense that this was a robot yes a lot of people have also said that about the grace that they get the sense that they're not really an actual physical

“like a or a biological organism that there's some sort of a hybrid thing or some sort of a”

whatever the thing we got me about that is that if it's robotic that it still has the ability to mind speak mm-hmm that is really advanced yeah well I mean we have to figure out what consciousness is right and what communication is and if there's something you could tune it you know you could have a robot that could speak out loud so why can't you have a robot that transmits why couldn't I mean it with sufficient enough technology kind of makes sense you would have something that has the

ability to transmit into your mind so do you think with when you're studying all these different people missing and like do you try to put a percentage on how many these people you think just got eaten by bears and how many these people you think are having these kind of experiences

“so if there's any evidence of animal predation I don't even work with them I just push them out”

they're right one even look at the kids you're only looking at the cases that are super weird they've fit that at no animals contract can't ask can't track right they're they're bringing a professional tracker they can't track there's a weather issue in relationship to the disappearance sometimes they people are found next to water or amongst a boulder field there's another one Joe boulder fields now if you think about where's the most boulders and granite it's your

semadi valley and what goes through the middle of your semadi valley water the Merced River and that area specifically that's a hard valley to get lost in but yet how do these people get lost and we're not talking about people going into the back country we're talking about people getting lost in you know semadi valley that disappear and aren't found and there's a couple of cases well they've probably 10 cases that are just absolutely bizarre there's a case that was

investigated by the semadi investigators back 40 years ago as a woman came out and they found her body so far away from a cliff that they said she their words she was launched so it's like if you jumped or you fell you could only go so far from the cliff right she was found too far from the cliff and they called it launched but they couldn't understand how she got that for not possible with a gust of wind no not far was she that's all that that's that was their

wording that she had to have been launched right and norm I've never seen that wording before in any

park service report they're usually very conservative and the way they discuss things and so this aligns with this idea that they get dropped correct that's where I disturbing that aliens would do that to us just drop us like I would think that if they're going to abduct you hey place me back my bed so pay attention when the next time you see a story about somebody being abducted a lot

go missing like this under weird circumstances die versus just disappear forever I would say that

“it's probably 40 percent 50 percent are never found I would say that maybe half of that half that's”

left 25 25 split between alive and dead but you find out a lot more about the case if you get the body back because the body sometimes will show things that doesn't make any sense at all a lot of times the person will disappear and it's an 80 degree day we talk about that point of separation you go on this way I'm going to the right and a hundred yards from where I last saw you there's a pile of clothes there you think and I'll tell you degrees out why is there a pile of clothes is underwear is

socks that shoes everything pile right there he's never found where do you go why would you take

all this clothes off people would say well you know he it's hypothermia and there's a condition where you take all your clothes off not an 80 degree weather not an 80 degree weather not that fast it doesn't

“happen and so missing clothing missing shoes are part of this that don't make any sense if you're in the”

woods you're on a trail and I could take your shoes off it's all very weird does anybody ever have an experience where they go and they get abducted and then they ask what happens to some of these people how many people do you do this to that it must have happened but I don't know if they've ever gotten a response from it has anybody ever asked how many people do you abduct how many people have you taken like this I'm sure they asked but I'm not sure that they would have gotten an answer

huh and then you know that there's a theory out there that there's more than one type or one group taking people yeah well this is the fox news thing see if you could find that fox news report because it's kind of wacky because watching it on fox news you're like is fox news all the sudden coast to coast with our bell like what what the hell has happened because they were talking about the reptilians and the Nordics the Graze fox news TV like regular TV like what is going on here is

that nonsense are they being fed nonsense or is this disclosure and are they slow trickling this out to us to get regular folks like boomers get them accustomed to this idea of there are entities out there what if they're just acclimating you to to the reality of our world

“and what if what if the truth is is that there's people around you that are aliens and you don't”

even know it I think Elon's a fucking alien it's only that he makes sense I think I met a few aliens definitely Joey Diaz might be an alien there's a few people that have met them like you're not real no way you're real but Elon's the top of my list like he didn't even make sense like I've met a lot of people that are smarter than me I you know I'm not the smart guy but there's only a few people that have met him like okay we're not even the same thing

okay let's hear this this is what Dan from age of disclosure and that's one of people I interview to my film senior intelligence officials went on the record saying that there have been dozens of crashed craft of non-human origin over the years and elements of our government have recovered those those crashes and they've gotten out of that technology of non-human origin and in some cases non-human bodies that were on these on these

craft a number of people might film go on the record saying that the bodies were not all the same type meaning they were multiple species were the bodies alive or were they dead the people in my film talked about events where they were they were dead bodies they were deceased bodies okay and yeah there's a lot of speculation about the amount of UFO information we've been

given on this first trunch we expected more we know there is more why didn't you use that

work before trunch I'll give you so hard to release more yes so the president gave his directive in middle of February essentially instructing all federal agencies to declassify evidence of non-human intelligence life and UAP what happened after that is the White House had to go get that evidence out of the hands of all these federal agencies and they all they all for the most

want to share it you know they've they've gotten a lot of power and control over the years

and it's just frankly not human nature for people who want to give up power and control so there's a tug of war happening behind the scenes there are a number of other reasons guiding their their desire to keep the secret including a general belief that the public can't handle the

“truth I would argue the public can handle the truth I think my my film shows that people aren't”

watching it and jumping out of windows they're they're curious and they want to learn more there's also a general feeling that a concern that they can't tell the American public what they know and don't know without also telling our adversaries and giving them some sort of advantage but I think I think that that's good yeah that's good go back to that one weird one the beginning the black and white one that looked like a star they look like um that's been deep long

I think this is it oh how dare they that one yeah that's debunked yeah but this is one of the more recent ones that was released in this immense dump of information how's it been debunked I'm gonna debunk this debunkers fuck off that things awesome I want that thing to be real

“yeah that's Dan Ferra from age of disclosure which if you haven't seen it folks amazing documentary”

very interesting you know it's a bunch of different people that have inside information that are talking about it and want to hear they're just debunking it the a point at star refers to declassified 2013 infrared military video released as part of the government UFO files the footage was widely debated online and linked to alien or biblical origins however experts debunk the phenomenon explaining it is simply a distortion caused by a hot jet engines exhaust pewm

plume hitting a military infrared camera allegedly I prefer to believe that something else I don't know let me add another twist to this missing person thank for okay please so it's more of an evolution for me learning what could be happening in those woods and I started off in national parks

“and the most recent thing I've done missing four one one national parks Washington state”

there's a case where a guy in 2006 disappeared in Olympic national park he was a former army intelligence officer he worked in Israel he worked in Africa he worked in a lot of different places spoke six languages and then he started to work in campaigns and he worked for a woman who is campaigning to be a congresswoman in Washington state she lost she became the head of retirement services in the state of Washington she brought him along as the assistant his name is Gilbert Gilman

when I wrote the story up for my books he was supposed to show up at this meeting for her on a Sunday he stopped off at Olympic national park park discar was playing the music loud a range of

come by asked me to turn it down he turned it down he got out and he walked into the woods he never

came back huge search he's never found that's all I really knew and I wrote it up like that came ends couldn't follow his track it disappeared blah blah blah then I interview we set up doing this thing for the movie interview on his relatives and I interview his girlfriend and his girlfriend said she saw a month beforehand and she said a week before he disappeared he was trying to call me like he wanted to tell me something and I was busy and I couldn't talk to him

and I knew he wanted to tell me something but then I put it up so something was wrong I never got to talk to him again so I started talking to her about his past and I said well did he ever work for the CIA and Joe she goes I don't know if I could talk about that I said well I can't you talk about that I don't I don't know I don't think I can so that means yes exactly so so she gets emotional she's upset she can't see him and then we go into the next room

interview is mom and his mom says well Dave a lot of people don't know this that before he disappeared I have a pen house in Chicago this woman's really wealthy and Gilbert has a bedroom there and he asked me to stack a couple books on his nightstand and he wrote something on a yellow pad on my coffee table in Arabic and I said how long would that sit was that sitting there and she goes

well I went one week and he disappeared I never got to really look at it and then I flew to

Washington so I don't know what he wrote so Joe here's the kicker I said well that's pretty strange

for Gilbert and the people who run my townhouse my condominium she lives like a 30th floor

“call me and said two FBI agents were just here and they said they needed to get into your townhouse”

and I gave him the keys and I went into they went into your townhouse and took some things I said Mrs. Gilman they can't do that I don't care what they say they need a search warrant to go in your house he can't give permission what was taken well I went back the yellow pad was gone and a couple of his personal things were gone so I said this doesn't make any sense why would the FBI go into your house to retrieve anything of Gilbert's if this is a missing

person case and he has no relationship to the government and she goes well Dave you're asking what I've been thinking all along now this this happened 15 years before I interviewed her she sharp as a tech girlfriend sharp as a tech and she says things haven't seemed right

“and she said I think I think he's alive somewhere so as she's saying all this my mind's”

racing and I'm thinking how many other people have disappeared in a national park under circumstances that I just heard from a girlfriend and the mom but I don't know about him because I haven't been able to interview their girlfriends in their moms and why wouldn't the park service give me the information on the report if it was a straight missing person case like this they would so really is there something more nefarious going on in the parks about taking people that they're in conjunction

with some other body some other three letter agency to make people go away so they're doing this on purpose with people that have information that's inconvenient or that's top secret

“that they don't want it being leaked somehow I had the feeling Gilbert knew I think I think it was”

all planned he knew that they were going to take him yeah and I think he agreed to go and why do you think that because he left that pad with it with the writing in Arabic did he speak Arabic he spoke six languages and we don't know what he wrote down in Arabic no okay and she also said a peculiar thing I don't I'm sorry I don't remember the books but he asked her to get two books and put on the counter and she thought that that was a clue

to what happened Dante's inferno might have been one of them and I forgot the other book but she said I if I think that's a clue I just don't understand what he was trying to say

huh but that's also not the first time something like this has happened where somebody disappeared

and it was all pointing to the government in the 1950s there was a man that was going to Miami University he played in their band he was a wrestler for the varsity wrestling team he was an all-round guy one night he comes home to his dorm and strangely there's a fish in his bed and he asked the RA for new sheets she brings in new sheets he gets him changed make a long story short he disappears right after that that night so it's like that's the message that you're going to go that night or

something I don't know so everything just looks like the guy disappeared from college except five months later the head of housing from Miami University or Miami Ohio is at a city 10 miles north of the Pennsylvania border in New York a little tiny city he and his wife are having dinner at bed breakfast and sitting across from him 10 feet away are three men at a table and he says I'm telling you that was Ron Taman that's a guy's name and he's talking to the wife and they keep

keep looking at each other so they go on to the parking lot and he tells his wife I've got to go back in Ron's disappeared I've got to go talk to him so he goes back in and all three of the guys are gone all dressed in suits that was another indicator that the government had some something to do with the

disappearance now Ron's family lived in LA they never saw Ron again never heard from him again

but what do you think they're doing like why would they do that well the question I and I've talked to my team about this why would the government need you to separate yourself from the family

to work for government services why wouldn't you just do it so story about fishing runs bed on

Ronald Taman dot com this is the right guy yeah that's him this is this was a prank someone confessed it to him in 2010 the fish was a prank to it says doesn't he confess to me the copper behind the fish prank disappeared think of it this way and these emotionally charged and divisive times when no one seems to agree on much of anything I present to you the one shiny example of a core belief with with which all of humanity can surely agree that that time honored value is this no one in his or her right

mind whatever knowingly sleep with a dead fish in their bed okay that's not tired you are okay

this doesn't make any sense to me so when these guys just disappear like you think that he knew

he was going to be taken Ron I don't know you don't know but the other guy that went into the woods you think you he didn't kill but no and how do you think he was taken that's a good question I don't think there might be a victim of a serial killer that someone else investigated on TV show 1012 that's completely BS why do you think that if a serial killer killed him in the middle of the woods they would have found his body hmm I said that he put at least one maybe update bodies

100 feet at the bottom of the lake oh maybe he made it to at least eight slangs before he died

at age 34 oh didn't say he killed this guy but but he killed him in that area yeah oh well

that's possible that that would be why they didn't find the body they should have found tracks to a kill site they would have found evidence right it would probably have found some blood

“and remember they were they were on that from the day he disappeared and they were they had dogs”

yeah they would have found blood correct unless they strangled them well even if they would have strangled them there would have been so many people in that area that guy would have been seen at least really how was this like wooded you're talking about a lake you sure they'd been just a small parking lot not a big area right this isn't like a real big parking lot and a real big tourist guy has done this to a bunch of people for sure not not right there no no okay

the guy who disappeared and went to the woods and you you think that guy what was his name again Ron Tamman no the other guy the guy that that disappeared and went to the woods Gilbert Gilman yeah yeah when when that guy disappeared which is which is Gilbert this is the serial killer one okay the the guy that you said parked his car and went to the woods and you think that he knew that he was going to be taken yeah what do you think happened to when he went to the woods

“I think somehow they had some extraction method and who knows what that is he was he was”

he was wearing Burmida shorts flip-flops he wasn't somebody that was going for a hike that was the other indicator he was wearing like a Hawaiian shirt even the Ranger said she thought that the him playing the loud music was the signal that was a signal for her to come over and acknowledge that he was there okay so he planned his disappearance maybe or he wanted her to see her there see him there that was the indicator do you ever wonder like if you're

losing your marbles studying all these different things you know what I mean like you're going over so many different cases as so many cookie circumstances and different people disappearing that your your whole perspective on this stuff gets a little weird I would say so except I wrote this up as just a standard everyday missing person case hmm these weren't my beliefs that's these are the beliefs of right the girlfriend and the mom and I have to say

that the FBI going to that house is completely outside the realm of anything normal yeah that's very bizarre and also taking the legal pad with the Arabic writing on it and the books yeah it was very weird but I mean who knows what that's all about that seems to have something to do with the government whereas some of these things seem to have something to do with either extra terrestrial or interdimensional things or correct a lot of weirdness in this world David

“I think our world is much more complex than we think yeah I would agree with you just like”

humanity everyone's there's a lot of complex people for sure well certainly the people that

the mind of a person it let's assume that there are really extraterrestrial bodies somewhere

“and let's assume that there are recovered crafts and that these people are like bobs are really”

have been back engineering don't you imagine being one of those people one of this select group of people a small amount that have information that's completely different from what the rest of the world has about the reality in which we exist in that we share this reality with things that have technology that is beyond our comprehension they can do things that we can't even imagine and that these people will all know it's real and that they're holding onto this information

then don't think we can handle it I mean the radio shows I've been on and the people I've talked

to have said the same thing about me and missing people it's been a revelation that this many

people are missing in our woods that are unaccounted for and our government won't acknowledge it acknowledging it by releasing a list releasing the documents why can't we say them but you could attribute that to share incompetence like the people that are running the parks and working for like you know you get bad investigators in all sorts of I mean you're a cop you you know about all that what's going on from two years ago a gills mother thinks he might have disappeared to

be a spy for the US government and it's still alive and there are authorities that's possible

“what had a long history I think he said he was an interrogator and he was six different languages”

who were for the UN it said when he went missing he had survival skills from his military training he was a paratrooper huh and he just he had a camera on him was apparently oh yeah so they could have staged his disappearance so that they could position him somewhere else people would think he's dead you give him a toldy new identity and now he's working undercover somewhere yeah well I would imagine that's possible I would imagine like if you wanted someone to work for you

and you say you know this person's going to work undercover and some top secret mission okay but you've got to disappear you got to disappear from regular life so that we can give you this new identity we can't just have you know your friends looking for you we we have to move you to some of the new part of the world so Joe if you were me and you were sitting across from his mom

“that's really something vial I think to do to your parent oh for sure horrific she was”

she was a broken human yeah no that's terrible and and I asked her I said there's a good chance Gilbert somewhere in the world watching this what do you want to say to him she said Gilbert just please come home she was like an 88 year old woman then oh boy yeah yeah no that's brutal and well that's a very different thing we're talking about that's not a fun thing the fun things to you know I'm sorry I'm sorry I got off tractor no but I mean look I get it

because you're dealing with like a wide swath like a bunch of different kinds of encounters and different things you know those yeah that's dark so do you know much about Mount Rainier not much no so do you know that the the original UFO period of time started with a UFO sighting kind of thornals right yeah so do you know that when Arnold you know what Arnold was doing when he was flying around no so six months prior to that three transport Marine

transports were flying from El Toro Marine base into Seattle boom one after the other they hit bad weather one of those planes came around and they lost it Arnold there was like a huge reward if you could find it Arnold was flying by Rainier looking at the mountain trying to see if you could find it and these things went by on story short months later they found the transport had

crashed into the side of Rainier first of all do you know that the Marines never took one body off

of there did they recover the vehicle the the the crowd no no they didn't recover anything they slept it there they left it there was it because the extractions too difficult that's what they said is that possible I guess so I mean if it's not traversable they can't get in there but they did get in there they did they did they said they got in there they saw bodies but it was two dangerous to remove any and they left them all on the side of the mountain

so that's the reason that Arnold was there a lot of people don't know that okay and

that no planes we have and there were multiple ones he saw go by right now since that time

“not Baker and Mount Rainier have had dozens of UFO sightings and if you look”

at the dispersion of people who have disappeared on Rainier it's most of them aren't way up here on the mountain they're down here at the bottom and when we put that in the movie that people couldn't believe how many people there are missing how many people there's probably

at least fifteen that have never been found and it makes no sense and they all hikers or

what hikers photographers one kid worked for Alaska Airlines went into the woods like every week because he lived near Rainier and on his days off he took pictures of the mountain and panoramic shots and some of his photos actually made it into the National Park Headquarters or that good he went up to take pictures one day he has a tripod real nice camera he disappears they search for him for ten days bring in canines everything they can't find anything of him

now this is one of those cases where let's say there was bear predation yeah there may be nothing left of him but the tripod will be there forever the cameras there

forever his boots his belt but they never found anything there was a medical doctor

that disappeared just recently within the last couple years hiking in that same area a giant loop backpacking

“I think he was thirty four years old absolute genius guy came from UC Berkeley just recently moved”

up to Seattle took a new job but one on a backpacking loop there he disappeared never found nothing but there's it's repeatedly this big search find nothing no tracks no sent trail no evidence of them being there in the same area where there's dozens of sightings yes

but if you wanted to get abducted that's the place to go if you really want to find out what's going on

have you ever thought about have you ever seen anything yourself as far as what as far as like something looks like it's from another planet oh we've seen Orbson UFOs many times many times yes have you taken photos of him or anything we have somehow got good ones there's a lot of really good Orb photos out there right and so that's not unusual I think the after what I've seen after I've made five

documentaries now I've seen 12 and 14 and 15 year olds do things with special effects that if you watched it on film right you would know if it was real or not well certainly today yeah today I mean all bets are off you really can't tell what's real and what's not real

“that's why somebody who sends me a big foot photo or UFO I don't even watch it because”

you can't tell what's real anymore right you'd have to go all the way back for me to film actual film and then I'll look at it well David thank you very much for being here it's certainly a very interesting subject I can't imagine what your brain is like having studied this for all these many years you got a very weird version of the world that we live in because you've been inundated by this stuff for decades but I think there's something there

I don't know what it is do you that's a way for that for maybe around two huh okay around two well thank you very much thanks I'll tell everybody where they can find your work where they can watch your documentaries and my two most recent movies missing for one one National Parks Washington State is on Amazon American Sasquatch man myth and monster is on Amazon and then you can watch my three movies for free

on to be and that is missing for one one that's the number one missing for one one the hunted and missing for one one the UFO connection and my website is missing for one one dot com and it has all my books all right thank you very much thank you bye bye bye you