#2504 - Skylar Grey

>> The Joe Rogan experience.

“>> Join my day Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.”

[MUSIC] >> Great to see you. >> What's that for that? >> Okay, so I'm Alvin. >> This is the power of music.

I told my wife that you were coming on and she said, I don't want to get him off. She said if I die on my funeral, I want her song, I'm coming home. >> Really? >> Yeah, I was like, that's a heavy thought. And then I listened to it in the gym and I was like, God, damn.

I listened to the version where you were on the piano. It was like a solo concert and I was like, God, that's such a great song, but it's such a, such a crazy thought. >> Yeah. >> That someone would want.

>> Wow. >> A very specific song. >> Yeah. >> Have you waited to start the podcast? >> I know, but, but that's, you know, that's the emotion of real music.

>> Yeah. >> Like you said, I mean, text message about AI, you know, because you said,

I mean, one of your songs and you're like, AI is never going to recreate this.

I said something like, I don't think it's capable of writing stuff with this much emotion. >> Yeah. >> But what's not real, you know? >> Yeah. >> It sounds cool.

That's what AI does. They, they, there's cool songs that come from AI, but there's always going to be, and I completely agree with you, there's always going to be a thing, we know, a person wrote it that they sat down and they wrote it and there's this connection

“with their, their spirit and their creativity that comes out, and that's what people love”

about music, other than stuff that sounds, I like, I like AI music because it sounds cool, but I know what it is, I know it's just a robot. >> I mean, I think it's, you know, sometimes it's good for certain things, but the type of music that I make personally, it's like very therapeutic for me to write.

I always, I'm writing from like a true emotion, so, um, yeah, each type of, yeah, it all has

its place, though. I think AI is an interesting, it's just like another tool, I feel like that, you know, when auto tune first came out, people were bitching about that, and even like my first albums, I recorded with my mom when I was a little kid, we did it on two-inch tape, you know, so there's no computer involved, so then computers got introduced and people were

bitching about that, like this isn't real music, you know, it's just like all these technological advances to me, I see them as just tools that creatives can use to get their vision across. >> What was, what was Peter Frampton using back in the day, it was like a tube or something, right?

I have no idea.

“>> Do you remember like, you, you know, with that stuff as Jamie, right?”

>> It's like a tube you put in your mouth or something like that, so that's like a straw and like the microphone picks up the sound, so the sound would go through the tube and do your mouth and the microphone picks that up and you can use your mouth. >> Because I remember people hating that, like way back in the day, people were hating that, like that's something that's real voice, like what is he doing, what is put it through

that thing, you know, but there's always, I mean, look, there's always going to be tools

that people use to enhance creativity, but the thing that's weird now is that they're making entire song, they can make, I know, it's whole Skyler Gray category, and they sound pretty good. >> They sound really good, you know, that's what's crazy, yeah. >> It's your voice.

>> And it's only going to get better, you know, because it's so new. >> So. >> Those entire podcasts with me that I never did. >> Really? >> Yeah, there's a whole conversation with me and Steve Jobs, I never met Steve Jobs. Just me and Steve Jobs talking about stuff.

>> Is it the visual too? >> No, it's not the visual, it's just an audio one, but eventually I'm sure there'll be a visual one. There's definitely ones of me talking to people I've never talked to, because like people pretend they've been on the show, you know, for fun, you know, very strange, you know.

>> Very strange. >> Yeah, we're living in a weird blurry time, like the lines between real and not real or getting very blurry, like it's an introduction to the matrix, like we're getting like the first whispers of the fog of the matrix as it envelops us. >> Yeah.

>> These little clouds, like, oh, this is weird, then eventually just give me a wall. We're going to just be in the full cloud of the matrix. >> But I see people questioning everything now, they're like, is this real?

>> You should, I mean, there's people like prominent news people who've reposted stories with videos, and they're like straight out of a video game. >> Yeah. >> It's very, very weird time, we're in. >> Very.

>> No. >> But I think it's also exciting. >> Definitely exciting. >> You know, it's fun. >> Yeah, well, it's weird, anytime things are weird, anytime things are like, yeah.

>> Yeah. >> But that, I think it makes you really appreciate actual things, like real, physical things. >> Yeah, I agree with that.

“>> Real connection with people, real art, you know, I think that's what's going to happen”

a lot with AI, like people's actual artwork, like getting something like, like this chimpscult, this is made with thimbles, symbols, with zildes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> This guy shane against the machine, he makes, yeah, he's an artist, he makes cool stuff. But like, I know like I made that, like, when I'm fucking around with this, like this guy made it.

>> Yeah, I think it'll make us a value, real human made art more, and a value, like nuance and mistakes and things not being perfect, you know. >> Yeah. >> I mean, that's part of what's relatable about art, is it, and it's part of what makes us appreciate that it did come from a person, you know, like, when you look at a really

cool painting, like that painting, like that doesn't, that's not perfect, that's supposed to be perfect. >> I love that. >> Just supposed to be an expression, it's like a person's work, it's like there, whatever they are, they're things, they're essence, is in that canvas, you know.

>> Yep. >> How'd you start doing music? How old were you? You said you recorded with your mom when you were little? >> Yeah.

>> How old were you?

>> I was six when I did my first show.

>> Whoa. >> Yeah. So she was in, like, folk bands and stuff, and she also plays Celtic harp, and my dad was in a barbershop quartet, my great grandma was an opera singer, so I just was born into an extremely musical family, and when I was, like, two, we were singing happy birthday to

one of my aunts, and I started singing a harmony, and my mom was like, what is going on? How is it two year old singing harmony? I wasn't even able to, like, say all the words, but the notes I was singing were like the harmony part. And then with all her bands that she was playing with all the time, I would be at the rehearsals

and chiming in, and then they would, like, bring me up on stage to do little guest appearances,

“and it was just very clear that that's what I wanted to do.”

And so when I was six, we put together our first, like, hour-long set, and I played at a library, me and my mom took other, and it was a mother's day show, Madison Wisconsin,

I'm from Maison Mani, it's like a 1,500-person, really small village, basically, in Wisconsin.

And so then I just loved it, and so we started touring around the Midwest, and played a lot of really random venues, like, elementary schools, libraries, women's health conventions. I think the, one of the biggest shows I ever did was actually a Boy Scouts thing, and it was, like, 1,500 Boy Scouts, how old were you? Um, I so I did this from the time I was six till I went solo, I think when I was 12,

or if. [laughter] That's crazy. Yeah. That's an interesting life, though, to have your path carved out, or at least the direction.

Yeah. At a very young age.

“And it wasn't, like, I was, like, a Disney star or something, so it wasn't, like, kind”

of big scale. It was small, and, but I made it decent money, and, um, I mean, for a kid, and I saved it up, and then when I was 12, I bought my first grand piano with the money I'd saved up. Oh, wow.

Yeah. And so then I started writing songs at the piano, like, pop songs and stuff, solo. And it wasn't cool at that time to be singing with my mom anymore, like, you know, kids get really mean in middle school, then they would, like, make fun of me, because we

were singing the silliest, like, like, we are the colors of the rainbow, and never spoke

to back go, and my grandma slid down the mountain, these are some of the song titles. So it was very silly, and I got made fun of, and so I wanted to sing pop songs. And, uh, I went solo, and my mom was not stoked about that, because like, it had become her career. So singing with me, like, we, I would miss, like, I would miss so much school, um, sometimes

I had six shows a week. So it was like, a lot. But you're helping in pop.

Oh, look at that.

“So when you say your mom wasn't stoked about that, was that, like, real friction between”

you guys? No.

I mean, she was really supportive, but, like, like, I said, I had become her career, singing

with me, so it was like, she had to adjust her whole lifestyle and everything for that. Wow. You know? That had to be a hard decision for you then, knowing that that's going to bomb your mom out.

Yes, and no, I just, like, I was so driven. 12. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, what was the feeling, like, when you say you're so driven, like, what was it inside

you that made you want to? I just loved making music and performing and writing. And I knew I just, there was no, like, option of anything else I would do with my life. And I knew I was not going to sing with my mom, my whole life, you know. So, I had to get some time.

Yeah, I've got to move. Yeah. That's well. Yeah. Yeah.

That's so crazy. God. And I hated school so much, and I begged to be homeschooled, and we couldn't figure that out. So I ended up dropping out, I was 16.

Why did you hate it so much? Because I was so focused on music, I felt like I was wasting my time in school. Wow. Um, yeah, there was this teacher that my algebra teacher. She said something to me that kind of lit a fire under my ass in a good way.

She told me music isn't a career. And I was like, I'll show you bitch.

I dropped out, and I never went back after she said that.

There's so many teachers that have influenced over children that say things like that. And it's such a crazy irresponsible thing to say. Yeah, because I had missed, or I hadn't done my homework because I had a show. The night before this, and then we had a test, and I ace the test. I was a good student.

I had like 3.9, but I ace the test, but she was like, but you got to do your homework. Just like everybody else in this class, and I was like, I had a show. I couldn't I didn't have time, and she was like, well, music's not a career. That's such a crazy thing to say, because it's clearly a career. But why do you listen to music?

Who's making it? I know.

“When you go to a concert, people are paying, is there someone on stage?”

Is that a career? Yeah, but you know what the fuck doesn't have me? It's not a career. It's a small town Midwest. Like, I mean, I guess everywhere, people push the go to school, you know, get a good job.

And I just wasn't on that path ever. It was very wild to be that focused at such an early age, but it's something fun about those kind of, like, I'll show you bitch stories. Yeah. Like, I could have taken that, and been like, I could have gone the other direction with

that comment, you know? Right, you could have said, oh my god, I don't want to be a loser. Yeah. It would be homeless. Like, okay, she's right, and she's an adult, so she must know.

Right. But, yeah. I didn't see it. You get older. Well, you get older and you realize, like, there's a lot of people that are teaching.

They're like, they're just teaching because they need a teacher. It's not because, like, we found this magical person is really good at educating children. It's really good at, like, shaping their minds, their futures. Yeah. Well.

There's some good teachers. I guess a lot of them. I had some really good teachers. She was not one of them. It's hard to find someone that's really good at a job that doesn't pay very well.

It is. That's part of the problem. That is part of the problem.

“It's almost like, you would think that if the future of humanity is very important, one”

of the most important things would be education.

So, one of the most important things would be finding the best teachers and how would you do that. You would pay them really well. Yeah. Like, if we really cared about the future of Earth, we would spend...

A ton of money making sure that these teachers are really well educated, and that they really understand psychology, they really understand how to motivate children. Yeah. You would think. Yeah.

That would make a lot of sense. Right. We're so odd how intelligent and capable and innovative we are, and yet so fucking foolish. Yeah. That's the same time.

That we just allow that generation after generation, shitty teachers, not getting paid, good teachers, not getting rewarded, you know, and then they retire, and they're like, "Who's that all for?" Yeah. Nobody cared.

Ugh. Those are stupid. Those are stupid. That's stupid.

But the education system is so crazy.

Yeah. Because, I mean, essentially, I mean, when you go down the tinfoil hat road, it was essentially designed to make factory workers, and there wasn't really formal schooling, like, we have now where children go at an early age and show up and, you know, and leave their parents all day, that's like the fairly recent thing in human history.

“And the reason why they got people really early is because that's how you can brainwash”

them. Right. You get kids when they're 14, 15 years old that kind of already have their own view of the world, it's hard to shape them. But you get those little five-year-olds, six-year-olds, and then if you get pre-school, you

know, because a lot of people have to work, you know, parents, both parents work. So then you can get the kids real early, and then you can make little workers out of them. Mm-hmm. Like, walking a single file line, and it's like, control everything.

Mm-hmm. Sit in class. Sit straight ahead. Pledge allegiance. Yeah.

And if you can't pay attention, you must have a disease, so we're going to give you some

medication. Exactly. Yeah. And then you're like, "Ahhh." It's fucking busted.

I probably should have had some of that medication. The reality is. Probably not. No. No.

I definitely think I'm an undiagnosed ADHD. Okay. But I feel like almost everybody else. Well, anybody that's any good at anything? We had this conversation yesterday with my friend Eric, and I was like, "I think it's a fucking

superpower." Yeah. I do. I don't think it's negative at all. Yeah, there's a lot of shit I can't pay attention to if it's boring.

Right. If it's boring, I check in. But then do you have like super hyper focus on things that you're obsessed with, right? Oh, yeah. Like, I don't need to sleep.

Yeah. Like, I can stay up for days if something is really interesting. If I get focused, which is why I have to stay away from video games and stuff like that. Oh, yeah. I just lock in.

It's locked in for hours. Yeah, it's problem. Yeah. But it's not just video games. And I really love.

But things that I'm not interested in, it's like I can't absorb it. It just goes in.

“And that's what high school was like for me, as I got being classed like this is torture.”

But then I'd find something I really loved, and I'd be like fully locked in. Yeah. But it took a while for me to, because I just thought I was going to be a loser.

I'm like, clearly, I can never hold a job.

I can't take direction. I can't pay attention. Like something wrong with me, like I'm not, I'm just going to be one of those people. It's just kind of a freightage person. It's never, you know, never fits in anywhere.

I'm like, okay, this is who I am. I'll just get some weird odd jobs to feed myself with. Like this literally, how I was thinking about my future. I'm like, "It's you now." Well, I got lucky.

I found some things that are unconventional. But there's so many children out there that are told like, "Hey, music is in a career. Hey, you know, whatever acting, writing books, whatever it is, comedy." There's so many, there, telling you, because they didn't do it, that you can't do it. Yeah.

Yep. It's a bummer. Yeah. Like, I was an artist when I was young. I wanted to be a comic book illustrator when I was really young.

And I had one shitty high school art teacher who was just such a twat. He was so bad. And I just quit art, my senior year, I was like, "I don't want to go to this guy's fucking class." Like, 'cause it wasn't a big high school and he was the only art teacher.

So I quit. What did he do? He was just negative. He was like, "Because I just wanted to draw what I wanted to draw." Right.

And I was into comic book stuff like Conan, The Barbarian, Superheroes and stuff like that. And he was like, "Well, you're not going to make a living doing that. You're most likely going to have to do advertisements for diapers, diaper ads." And I was like, "Fucking diaper ad." Like, that's explanation that he used diaper ads.

And I looked at him and he just looked like he looked depressed. He was like, "This skinny guy with a pop belly." Well, he's probably an artist that didn't make it as an artist. And he had to become an art teacher instead. Exactly.

So he's like bitter. Yeah. Well, we realized that too, we looked at his actual art where I was like, "Hah." I was like, "I'm very good." Not so inspired.

There's not a lot of fire in that belly. You know? This is just a boring dude who's just depressed and sad. He probably drank a lot. We see a skinny person with a big belly. Usually it's like booze.

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Go to armra.com/rogan. I mean, there's a lot of people like that, even in the music industry. I feel like a lot of the experts in the game are just like people who were artists and didn't make it another bitter, and then they try to tell you how everything should go, or how you should do everything.

Oh, yeah. That got me for a while when I was a really young. I feel like those people are like weights that you have to carry, and build up resistance. You build up strength from dealing with those bullshit people, because they're stupid ideas that get, they actually get in your head and you have to wrestle with them.

Or sure, especially when you're super young, like I was when I first moved to LA, I was

17. Wow, by yourself? Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

That's crazy. I was like very green, small town, Midwest girl. Wow. Just dropped in LA, and like. And really pretty.

That's a terrible combination. Oh, it's weird. Really pretty, 17. It was weird as well. Midwest.

Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you came out on the other end.

Good, though.

But isn't it true, though?

The like, like, those kind of experiences, like, experiencing, like, oddity and uncertainty. And just like the, the weirdness of like moving to a place like LA when you're 17. Like, when you get through it on the other end, you're a different person. You're a stronger person. For sure.

“I mean, every experience makes you stronger, right?”

So yeah, I just threw myself into this crazy mix in LA. And it was called your shock, like. So what year was this when you moved to LA? Um, so I was 17. So, and I was in the graduate, where I should have been in the graduating class of 2004.

So. To somewhere around that three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I lived with the guitar player from Culture Club. Really? Roy Hay. Wow.

Yeah. He had a house in Venice and I crashed on his couch and. Who was wild? Culture? Boy George.

Mm-hmm. Do you hang out with boy George? No. Never? No.

He wasn't there. Never meet him? He was a guitar player. On the phone. Oh.

Yeah. That was wild. There was a murder next door.

The first month they moved in.

Yeah. There's like a bloody mattress in the little alleyway between the houses. And they taped, they caution taped off all the houses.

“And they had to question us about like, did we hear screaming?”

And so I was just like sitting there on the steps. Um, not allowed to leave while they were taking the body out. And then the coroner after he put the body in the truck. He came and sat next to me on the steps and started like hitting on me. He was like, he was like, you're a very beautiful girl.

And like, you were just touching a dead body. This is so weird. Where am I? Oh God. That's crazy.

Yeah. Welcome to LA. Yeah. We got over that dead body real quick. Yeah.

Where are you from? Yeah. Fucking blood in this bigger name. Yeah. Gross.

Wow. That's a movie. Uh-huh. Well, LA in 2003 was still okay. Yeah.

It was like not bad. You know? It was still traffic and everything. But it hadn't gone completely sideways. Yeah.

It's so weird when I go back. This is unrecognizable. It's just doesn't seem like the same place. Every sign has a for every building has a for lease sign on it. It's like this is not.

It's like it's hard to believe that this is that you're like, when you see things like Detroit, you just see that movie Roger and me. It's a great movie. It's a Michael Moore. And it's all about the collapse of the Detroit automotive industry.

And how they moved all the plants to Mexico. And when they did that, the entire economy of Detroit and Flint, Michigan and all these areas just collapsed. Like tens of hundreds of thousands of people out of work instantaneously with no prospects. The industry was gone.

And it's a horrific depiction of what can happen when greedy people decide that they'll completely sabotage an entire city so they can make, you know,

dollar a day or whatever the fuck they pay them.

And, you know, I had seen that. But I was like, oh, that was, you know, 1980s or 1960s. Whenever when the place was booming, like Detroit was at one point in time.

“I think the third richest city in the world.”

Well, yeah. Let's see if that's true. I appreciate that's true. But it was all just because the automobile manufacturing. I mean, everything was made there.

Oh, four Chevy Chrysler, all of our big cars. And it just got gone. Like a ghost town. Like a ghost town. And, you know, and when I visited Detroit to work, I'd be like, wow, this is crazy.

You see trees growing through the middle of houses, the houses are collapsed. And, like, literally nobody took care of the house. It was abandoned. So trees grow through the roofs and they're reclaiming these homes. You see, you go by these gigantic, like, buildings, like industrial buildings, all the windows are broken.

Yeah. Everything.

No reliable historical source shows Detroit as the third richest city in the world.

The common claim is actually Detroit was the richest city in the world. Or at least the US was one of the highest living standards around 1950s, not third. Oh, so it's the richest? Well, that's the common claim of what it actually was. Very high medium household income around 20% of above US average.

And it's all because of the automotive industry. One of the highest home ownership rates in the country. Because of this many commentators and locals. History's described as the wealthiest city in the US. And by some accounts having the highest standard of living in the world in that era.

Articles and tours about Detroit repeatedly refer to it as the wealthiest city in the world. In the 1950s, not as the third wealthiest.

“So is that true, then, that it was the wealthiest city in the world?”

Tours about Detroit's history. The third richest city in the world, line seems to come from its meme, social posts. Okay. These posts are often mixed or exaggeration of real facts. Detroit truly was exceptionally rich by US standards. But rankings like third in the world are not backed by clear clearly documented global per capita income comparisons from that period. Well, so it was rich.

It was very wealthy. Either way. And when you think about the rest of the world, you know, like, you know, people have to use that term the 1% like the top 1%. Do you know what that is? Like for the world? No. No. What is it? $34,000.

No. Yeah. $34,000 is the top 1% of earth. That's crazy. Crazy.

That's crazy. What is it for the US? 1%. If I had a guess. Let's guess. A bet it's like $500,000 a year.

Do you think what do you think it is? $250. $250. What do you think it is, Jim? That's my guess.

$150. $150? Top 1%. Wow. Oh, that's your guess.

That's your guess. Throw that in proplexity.

What do I say, a half a million?

Top 1% of the US. $700,000. Yeah. You're going to close this? Yeah.

$700,800 or more, depending on the data source in the year. That's pretty crazy. So for the United States, $770,000 per year, most analysis.

And then for the rest of the world, $34,000. Wow. Crazy. That's wild. That's wild.

Yeah. That's capitalism. Yeah. But I bet there's probably some truth to in order for the United States to have such a high income. These other countries have to get bucked over.

Globally, you only need an annual income on the order of $60,000. To be the top 1%. Oh. It used to be $34,000. $34,000.

One widely cited analysis found that in 2012, annual income of $50,000 was enough to be in the global 1%. Where's that? $34,000? That was going around, too.

Oh, fucking memes. There might have been kind of true, but again, you have memes. I saw it repeated by someone very intelligent.

“I've looked it up before, but I think it was a meme.”

Okay. Either way. I get, I get those memes get me all the time. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

And then you go to the comments and it's like, I'll fake. Yeah.

But, you know, that's the dirty thing about what they did with Detroit.

Like, they decided that they'll take advantage of these people that are ultra poor, that are working, willing to work with. And it's not just that they get paid a dollar a day or whatever they get paid. It's, there's no healthcare. There's no benefits.

There's no retirement. There's no dental. There's no nothing. You just get that money and then figure it out on your own. And then, you know, you buy a forward car.

And you think it's made in America. Commonly repeated claim. The annual income about $34,000 US puts you the top 1% of the world. But this comes from rough, older viral estimates. It's not based on current rigorous global data.

More careful tools and data sets now suggest that $34,000 places you Well above the global median, but likely closer to roughly the top 5 to 10% Worldwide rather than top 1%. Okay. So it appears in social posts.

Yeah. 60 is still like. Right. You're barely getting by. Yeah.

If you make $50,000 in America, like you're fucking stradling.

Yeah. Well, it's your super young. You don't have anything to do with those. That's a good question.

“Like what's the average public school teacher salary in America?”

Let's guess. I think it's like 60 grand. I think it's about that. I bet it's about that. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's about that. I bet it's about that. Yeah. I bet it's about that.

Yeah. What is it? Don't, don't, don't. 74,000. Public school teachers now average 74,000 to 75,000 to 75,000 per year.

So that's like, you know, you're okay. The ones I'm where you live. Yeah. If you live in New York, you're fucked. Yeah.

If you live in New York, you live in a box.

Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good for Wisconsin. Okay. Um, state averages.

Lowest paying states to above $90,000 in the highest paying ones like California in New York. So, California in New York $90,000. When it says, though, it's way lower. Oh. Starting teacher pays significantly lower than the overall average.

Oh. National estimate. The average starting teacher salary about $48,000. Wow. Meaning it takes years of experience and often advanced degrees to reach or exceed that 74,000

average.

“So I think it, like, really intelligent people.”

Even if they love children, they're like, I can't do this. I can't live like this. Yeah. You start off at $48,000 a year. That's fucking bonkers.

That's not even $1,000 a week. And then you have taxes. And then you have an apartment. And then you have food. And then you have a car.

Kids. Kids. Oh. Yeah. Ugh.

Huh. How do people do it? Which is weird that we put our pre-op priorities in strange places. Like the amount of money that goes through. You know, various corporations and NGOs in the amount of loans that,

and all this different fucking shit that were our tax dollars go. And you look at that. And you're like, that seems so short-sighted. Mm-hmm. Very.

Yeah. No politician runs on that. No politicians. Like, we need to really find the best teachers and pay them the most amount of money that we can afford to make sure that we get the best in the brightest.

Everybody's like, fuck you. It's weird. Yeah, it is. People are strange. Yeah.

I wish you could like check boxes of where you want your tax dollars to go. Oh, 100%. Yeah. I wanted to go to education or whatever. Yeah.

Imagine if that was an option. If when you voted, you could actually vote on where your tax is went. Yeah. Yeah. Like, not even voted.

It should be actually individually. It should be. He's acting in an animal. Yeah. Let him out.

Because generally he would be chillin' by now. And when he hops like that, he's usually trying to let you. Tell you something. Yeah.

“Like, that's what he does when he has to eat.”

He hops. Yeah. He comes a rabbit. Oh, my god. Get it, I got chill out, bro.

My dog does that when she senses something outside. Like a coyote or something. She starts huffing. Well, you guys were saying you have one of them. Giant Caucasian shepherds.

Yeah. It's a Central Asian Shepherd. We have an alibi. I guess there's a lot of different like breeds under the Central Asian Shepherd. They're all hurting dogs, right?

They're like protect. It's a protection. Yeah. Yeah. Pull up the image of an alibi dog.

Just Google Wolf Crusher. Is that what they call them? Yeah. How much is it way? She's actually on the smaller side.

Oh, that is smaller.

But her head is so massive.

They get, they get really big. That one can't be real. But they are massive. Oh, so that's what she looks like. Yeah, pretty much.

She's all white. But those dogs are great for just like keeping track of the property. Yeah. Look at that image. This is Wolf Crusher.

And the bottom right there. Right. Left of the Wolf Grinder thing. Yeah. That one right there.

“So that I think is like a Turkish kingle.”

Which is I think the next dog we're going to get. Because we need another one. Our alibi nala, she. I'm just like such an animal lover. So she really should be outside living on the ranch.

But she sleeps in bed.

So I need an outside dog that's actually watching the livestock.

Because this past couple of weeks we lost 12 chickens and four sheep to what? Coyotes. Wow. Where do you live? Napa, Napa Valley.

Wow. You have that many coyotes out there? Oh, they are invading our property right now. It's been. The last few weeks have been really rough.

Well, once they know that there's food there. Yeah. Once they chase the blood they come back every night. Yeah. I lost all my chickens in California.

Yeah. We lost a couple of them every now and then. I had a dog. His name was Johnny Cash and he was a master. And he was a sweetheart of a dog.

But he was huge.

It was like 140 pounds solid muscle.

And these coyotes made friends with him. And so they would come by the fence and hang out with them. And then eventually he got like a custom to them. And then one day the pool guy accidentally left the gate open. And so he went into the area where the chicken coop is.

And the chicken coop was like completely protected. But we had one of our chickens was brooding. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Of course you do.

“So when you take chickens when they're brooding you have to take them away from the other chickens.”

And you put them in a smaller coop and they have to perch. So if they perch then they don't think that they're sitting on an egg. And then they get over it after a while. Yeah. And the coyote tricked Johnny into smashing that little chicken coop.

So that he can get the chicken. What do you mean? I don't know how this motherfucker did it. But it couldn't break down the chicken coop because it was only like 30 pounds. And so it was over there with Johnny.

And all of a sudden me and my wife and our kids were a plan. Some sort of like monopoly or something in the living room. And someone yells coyote. And one of my kids yelled coyote. And we see the coyote running across the backyard with the chicken and its mouth.

And then leaps onto the top of the fence. I thought we had like this fence. It was probably like six feet taller. Something like that. Like rod iron fence.

I don't keep the coyote. No. It leapt like a ballerina. Like a gymnast. Toast the top of the fence.

And then off with the chicken and its mouth.

“And part of me was like so impressed that I wasn't even mad.”

But apart. I was like what the fuck? I was like how did he get that? So we go outside and there's Johnny standing there. And in front of this destroyed chicken coop, which clearly he did.

Yeah, because the coyote couldn't have done that. Yeah. And so then he realized that chickens are to be killed. Oh no. Someone left the gate open again.

And he decided to just go right through the big chicken coop. And he killed nine of them. Before one of my daughters was screaming. Johnny's in the chicken coop. No.

Yeah, he made a mess out of it. That's awful. Well, he didn't, though. I know. My chickens are like my pets.

I like snuggle with them and stuff. We lost one to a bobcat last week. Yeah, we had some bobcats. Take some of ours. Yeah.

And we lost one to a fox. We lost one to a fox. A couple weeks ago. Do you free range your chickens? Yeah.

Let them out of the coop every day. Yeah. They get out of the coop. And then we bring them in at night. But you know, fucking animals, they figure it out.

Yeah, so like last week, because we let the chickens out every morning. It was 630 in the morning. And this coyote came and killed 12. Like back to back. Just ripped him out.

Well, on the cameras, that's we only saw one. Wow. Yeah. So it was like surplus killing. Yeah, thrill killing.

Well, they don't, they kill and then they leave them there. And then they go back and get them later. You know, they do that with cats, you know. I mean, mountain lions do that for sure.

But, um, yeah, it was weird.

They just killed them all.

“And then took like a few of them with them.”

Left some of them. Mm-hmm. Why the fuckers? It was awful. I was broken.

Because it took my favorite chicken. And her name was Biggeeaks. She was sweetest. She would like come like a dog. You could like call her name and she would come to you.

And do you eat chicken? Yeah. And my chickens. I don't eat my chickens either. But it's always weird.

Because my wife treats the chickens like they're little babies. Like, "Hey girls, hey girls." She takes care of them and all that stuff. And then we'll be eaten chicken. Yeah.

It's odd. Yeah.

I mean, we have cows too.

And I eat beef. Do you eat your cows? Well, they're not technically our cows. So we have like an arrangement with the cattle guy. And he just uses our property to grace them.

Okay. Because we need the cows. Because we have a biodynamic vineyard. And so we use the cows in the vineyard. Like for a few months out of the year.

Just because it creates like a great ecosystem. Mm-hmm. And also like their footprints make little puddles. And the water gathers. Because we're also dry-farmed.

And so... What's that mean? We don't water our grapes. Really? Yeah.

Why is that? I'm not the wine expert.

“But I think it's because you get like a better flavor profile.”

If you like... It's more concentrated. Uh-huh. If you don't like overload them with water. And also it makes the vine struggle in a good way.

So it makes them reach deeper. Like the roots reach deeper into the ground. And so you get more like flavor, I guess. And so this is your own wine. So we don't make the wine.

We sell the grapes to... I think we have five different wine makers now. They're all doing single estate wines from our property. Um... So they're not blending it with anything.

So you can drink the wine from our property. But it's not our label. Because I don't want to go out there and sell wine. And make people taste my wine. I don't want to go down that hole.

Yeah. It's like I have a whole other job I don't need that. That's in wine. We just handle the farming. That's cool though.

But if somebody wanted to buy wine from your property. Like what are the wines? Well, our property is called glass rock. And so... Pilgrow, glass rock.

Tansy glass rock. Oh, so they all say glass rocks on the farm. Yeah. Oh, sorry. They have like a...

They're brand name or whatever. And then underneath it I'll say like the vineyard site. So if you get it from a glass rock. I'm going to buy some wine from your farm. Oh, I'll send you some.

Do you like wine? I do. I like wine. Okay. I'm going to just mill you a package of all of the wines from our property.

Okay. Cool. It's all Cabernet. But we're taking like an old world approach to it.

Because Napa cabs are like super powerful.

Tons of alcohol. And that's not really my style. I like like French and Italian wines usually. And so all the wine makers we're working with are taking that approach. And so we're picking a little bit earlier, lower sugars, lower alcohol.

It's really delicious, delicate, beautiful wine. How did you get involved in this? Well, I got really into wine like in my 20s. And then I took a trip to Napa for a birthday. And it's so beautiful there.

Have you been to Napa? Oh, yeah. It's gorgeous. So I just like fell in love with the area. And then I met the love of my life at the grocery store there.

As I was buying a watermelon. And he asked if he could carry my melon for me. And that was his pick up line. I actually turned-- I turned him down though.

I said no. Yeah. But Carlo Mandavi is his best friend, Gina Mandavi. Mandavi wine? Yeah.

So he's grandson of Robert Mandavi. And so they're like best friends. And Carlo, I was living in Park City, Utah at the time. And Carlo had a house in my neighborhood. So that was like our mutual connection friend.

So I would just come to Napa to visit Carlo. And he would teach me about all the wine stuff.

“And that's how I met Elliot when we were at the grocery store.”

And then a year later, we got together officially. We just kind of like kept in touch. I was married at the time. He was on a relationship.

It was very dramatic. It turned into a crazy divorce. Five years lost. Wow. But anyway--

Those are fun. Yeah, it was fantastic.

“So then I moved to Napa and moved in with Elliot.”

Oh, you're after we met. And so then we lived in Thain Helena, which is like a town up the valley from Napa proper. And it was like a 400 acre ranch out in the middle of nowhere. And we had like a 400 square foot house,

like a little tiny cabin basically that we lived in.

And after a while, like getting cats and stuff, I was like, this is really small. And I have to make music after record and like having a studio in the 400 square foot house. It was just, you know.

So then we ended up buying this house down in Napa. And we bought it for the house. But there was a vineyard there. And so we were like, we got to figure out what to do with the vineyard. And it was conventionally far, I'm just at that point.

But we're originally many irrigated. Like irrigated, they used pesticides. Like, you know, like pretty much most of the vineyards. You know. Yeah.

And but we're very all about organic and great things. That's great too. Because one of the things that we were reading the other day

“was about glyphosate in California wines.”

They tested a bunch of California wines and all of them.

Yeah. I had glyphosate in it. Yeah. So we don't use any of that. That's awesome.

Yeah. We're very anti. So we transformed the vineyard into this biodynamic organically farm. Did you know how to do that? Before that, did you read books?

How'd you find out how to do it? No, we hired a farmer for a while from France that that was his like four day, basically. So we transformed the vineyard and then now Elliot's out there doing a lot of the farming.

Obviously we have help. It's because we have like something like nine acres planted a vineyard and so we have help. But he's out there running the tractors and stuff. Wow.

Yeah. He's always done.

He's always done like a lot of like tractor work.

But not ever in a vineyard. So it's all new to us. But it's fun. That life of like being on a piece of land and growing something there and like living with animals.

That is like the romantic life. It really is. It really is. Is it that cool? Yeah.

It's awesome. You got to come. I think you'll have it. It sounds amazing. I want to do that.

I've thought about doing that many times. Like buying a ranch, living on a ranch. It's just like. I get terrified of like adding one more thing to my life that will probably push out some things or eat up time.

I just don't know where I'm getting that time from. That's the only hesitation that I have. I just hire help. Yeah, but then you have to talk to them and you have to do that. Yeah, you have to manage it all.

Yeah. You have to do like interpersonal drama between the hell. Like Mike's a piece of shit. Let's go fuck. Yeah.

Yeah. It's worth it though. Honestly, it really is. So peaceful. Like especially being in the end of drama and going out in like touring

and just being in big cities and then coming home to this like peaceful serene ranch. It's yeah. It's the perfect balance. Yeah.

Yeah.

“Well, that is probably the key to staying sane as a performer.”

Like having a balance. I think so. There's so many of them just as fucking just day on the road and you kind of like lose your roots. You lose your grounding.

Uh-huh. You're always perfect. Well, and for me, like living in LA really ruined my creativity. How's that? Um, I think a lot of it was like, I'm.

I have a tendency to like give everybody too much power. So like all these so called experts like listening to their opinions about what I was doing. Um, just caught in my head. And so, um, removing myself, being able to remove myself from those characters and personalities telling me what

they thought I should be doing, like writing about singing about dressing, whatever. Um, I just. I need to like have open spaces to really hear my own inner voice and like my gut, you know. Um, so I left LA when I was 23 and I moved up to Oregon for a while. I've been a cabin by yourself.

Yeah. Really? How did you find it? Um, well, I had. I had been on tour. And I was playing keyboards and singing backups for somebody else.

So I got my first record deal when I was um, 18 or something and put out an album.

“That was with uh, Warner Brothers, Lincoln Park signed me.”

Um, and I was going by the name Holly Brook at the time. That's my first and middle name. And so I put out an album through that and it completely like flopped. And I went broke and, you know, LA's so expensive. And I had spent all my college savings to move out to LA and make demos.

And everything. So I had nothing left. And um, so then I had taken, for the first time of my life, I had to get some jobs. Like, not just performing. So I worked in Barnes & Noble.

Um, I taught gymnastics. And I edited porn. And then I edited porn. Whoa. Yeah, that was a great experience.

That's gotta be weird. It was weird. Well, how did you take that job?

“I was like, how did you even find out about that job?”

Well, it was a Craigslist ad. And it was just like, we need video editors. And I was like, oh, I can figure that out. Because I edit in Pro Tools and stuff, music. So it can't be that hard.

And they said they would train. So I showed up to the interview and a suit. And they were like, so you know, this is adult content. Because it didn't say that in the ad. That's how they brought it up.

You know, this is adult content. Yeah. How the fuck would you know? And they were like, are you cool with that? And I was like, I guess so.

Because I need the job. And so I just took it. And it was a 95 literally just looking at like the most disgusting shit you can imagine.

“Like two girls, one cup is got nothing on my side.”

Yeah. Yeah. So it was like hard. Hard core porn. And it was like.

It wasn't editing feature films. It was taking like a feature film. And then cutting out all the highlights.

So that I could make like basically reals.

Or like, you know, it wasn't Instagram. But basically like these little clips that people would search and and find like a Comshot or like a cream pie or whatever search term they would use to find this specific little clip. And so I would put together these little clips.

And then tag it with all the search terms somebody would use to find it. That was the job. And so it was all just like watch the whole film and pick out all the most disgusting moments you can find and turn that into a clip. And then I started getting this thing called the Tetris Effect.

Have you heard of that? No. So like, if you play Tetris for too long, you start seeing like the shapes falling and you hallucinate basically. So you'll just like be making dinner or whatever.

And you're just like hallucinating like the Tetris shapes. But I was hallucinating like gaping bottles and. Yeah. Oh my god. And so how long did you do that job?

I only lasted two weeks. But it was the best paying job out of all of them that I had. Because I got paid by how many clips I got done. In a certain amount of time. And so I was making like 30 bucks an hour, which is great for a high school dropout, you know.

And so it was good money. But I am with the Tetris Effect thing happening to me. There was like a light socket over my bed. That I had taken the light bulb out of because it was too bright. And every night when I fall asleep, I would like stare at that and see a gaping bottle.

[laughter] Which is like, this is not healthy. This can't be good for me to continue doing, you know. No. And then I also simultaneously got offered to be a keyboardist for this other singer Duncan Sheek.

He's like a 90s. He had a song called Barely Breathing in the 90s. And I was a fan. And so I was like, well, that sounds like a better job. And that's music at least. So I went on tour with him for a while.

I don't know if it was like a year or two. But the whole time I was just like, I wish I was making my own music and singing my own music. You know, I started really eating at me, being like the backup musician. And so I was like journaling a lot on tour. And I wrote, I just want to cabin in the woods where I can set up my studio and be away from all these people.

And basically, I manifested the cabin because like six months after I wrote that in my journal, my mom called me.

And she was like, my friend has this property in Oregon and she has a cabin.

You just have to work in her art gallery selling art twice a week.

And I was like, that sounds perfect. Wow. So that's what I did. That's how you want up in Oregon. So that's how I want up in Oregon.

We're part of Oregon. It's the Southern Coast.

“It was in the middle of nowhere, but it's basically near Bandon.”

Do you know where Bandon doing golf courses? No. Have you heard of that? No. It's a really fun golf course.

But it was kind of near there.

And I lived there for like six months.

So that my studio kind of like had to rediscover my love for music and fall back and it because I had like writer's block and I was really depressed. I had also just before that broke up with my boyfriend at the time. And my heart was broken and it was just like I was I was a mess. But my cabin was this really small one room cabin with one light bulb.

And there was no bathroom in it. There was a bathroom outside. And so I had to like walk in the middle of the night if I had to pee. I had to walk to the bathroom and I was like tear at the bed. Was it an outhouse?

No, it had a flushing toilet in a shower. But it was like a stand-alone.

“But it was separate from the cabin in like down a path.”

By itself. Yeah. Just a bathroom. Yeah. I don't know anybody.

Well because the cabin was like an old fire look out that they turned into a cabin.

So it didn't have like plumbing or something. So they like add, I don't know. But it was really beautiful. And it was also at the top of the sand doing so I couldn't drive up to it. So I'd parked it down the hill and hike to it.

How far was I? Like a quarter mile. Every day. Yeah. Yeah.

And so and I didn't have like internet or anything up there. Wow. But it was great. But I was terrified of Mountlands the whole time. And so I was like, you know, walking up that hill at night if I came home from whatever.

I had my flashlight and was like looking all directions like. And I actually made a mask to wear on the back of my head. Because apparently like I contact with the Mountlands like they won't attack. And so they'll cause they attack you from behind. So like we're a mask on the back of my head.

Wow. That's who told you how to do that? I don't know Google. There's um... I don't know if it's real, but it's real.

But I did it. It's real for tigers. There's a group of people that work for the government in the Sundarbans. So the Sundarbans is this area in India that's notorious for tigers eating people. And apparently, over the, let's just go this number because I'll fuck this up too.

“I think over the last 200 years something insane like 300,000 people have been killed by tigers.”

What? In this area? Yeah. That's insane. Yeah.

Well, there's a lot of villages there and then there's also typhoons. And apparently when these storms happen sometimes people die and they wind up in the river. And you know, they get washed away. And the tigers apparently developed a taste for human. And then there's also this thought about the water.

The water is not fresh. It's brackish. So the water is a high salt content in it, but they still drink it because it's the only salt water. So they're probably constantly irritated. The Sundarbans usually prone to attacking.

Sometimes eating humans, causing dozens of deaths every year. But not every tiger there is a man either. And they're all. So we, it's to our report suggests Sundarbans tigers regularly killed 50 to 60 people per year with some estimates over a hundred, especially including un-reported cases.

Most recent expert estimates put the average about 22 to 23 human deaths per year in the Sundarbans far lower than the popular perception. Well, there's like clusters of attack. Oh, yeah, here it is. Local news reported clusters of attacks, multiple fishermen and crab catchers killed with it a month, showing that risk and spike in certain areas or seasons had a bit in my 2009 comedy special about this attack that happened in the Sundarbans, where there was four guys in a boat.

And this tiger swam out to the boat, killed a guy, dragged him to shore, dropped his body off, jumped back in the water, swam to the boat, killed another guy, jumped back in the water, did it with three guys for he got tired. And the last guy just fucking shetting his pants on the boat by himself, one guy lived.

Oh, wow. Yeah, so I did the right thing. Yeah, you did the right thing. Well, at least for tigers. But there's, I mean, I'll, I'll get that crazy. These people all living around there. These are honey collectors in the Sundarbans to prevent tiger attacks.

Like you got to know, there's a lot of tiger attacks when you weren't a fucking mask around your head when you're going to work. Yeah, that's creepy. Yeah, fucking scary. It's a crazy way to got to die too. Yeah, especially a tiger. It's probably pretty quick though.

I guess once they get a holdy, it's just mush to get the back of your neck. Yeah, I mean, it probably happens fast. Alright. Yeah. Mountline probably take a little longer. I don't know.

Yeah, probably 20 minutes. 15, depending on how much you scream to pick. Yeah, we've had to deal with those, too.

“Did you have a gun or anything when you're up there?”

No. No. Did you think about getting one? No, I didn't actually. I hadn't axed.

It's better than nothing. It was, I was just chopping wood because I don't know if you were really afraid of Mountline. Talk to me and didn't get a gun. I don't know. I didn't even think about it.

I don't know why. Wow.

That'd been the first thing I thought of.

It was not a fucking chance in hell. I'm walking around there without a gun. Yeah. I don't think at that point I was into guns yet. Are you into them now? Yeah.

We've a gun range at our house. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Elliot's very into them. I have a carry permit.

Good for you. Yeah. Good.

“Have you ever seen a big cat in the wild?”

Oh, yeah. I wasn't lying. Yeah, was the biggest one you saw? Like a real big one? Um.

I don't think the ones I saw were huge. They were like 100 maybe 150.

The first one I ever saw was just in Colorado.

It actually wound up getting one of my dogs. And this was. It got your dog. No. Yeah.

Yeah. I lived in a place called Gold Hill. It's like north of Boulder. So it's like 3000 feet above Boulder. It was fucking beautiful.

I just. I would have stayed there. But um, it's very high altitude. It's like 8,500 feet above sea level. And my wife got pregnant.

And when you are, um, if you're pregnant at very high altitude and you're not accustomed to that, it's like you have the flu every day. It's horrible. And we wound up going back to LA. But, uh, so that was the first one that I saw.

And then I saw one in Santa Barbara. I saw one in, uh, and actually in Montesito. I was driving. And I saw this thing running across the road. I was like, oh, is that a coyote?

And I saw the tail. Yeah. And I was like, oh, it's a fucking mountain lion. Like, that's wild. But that one wasn't even that big.

That was like 70 pounds. And then, uh, a couple of years ago, I was in Utah with my friend Colton. And we were driving around this corner. And he goes, dude, look on to that tree. Look at that cat.

And we see the glowing eyes of this cat because it was like just starting to get dark out. And, uh, I was probably 30 yards from this thing in the truck with the binoculars. Just looking at its head. It's fucking head was massive. Like a pumpkin.

Like the muscles, the mandible muscles. We're like these things around its head. Just a crushing machine. And these huge forearms.

“That's what I remember about it the most.”

His forearms were massive. And it was just sitting there under that tree staring at us. And I was in the truck. Like, I wasn't, you know, we were armed. And we were in a truck.

And I was still shit in my pants. Like, that thing is so big. How much do you think it would? At least 180 pounds, maybe 200. It was a big Tom cat.

Like, that one that we have out front, like that, like that size. Wow. Yeah. That one was one of my friend Adam Greentree killed. And he killed that in Colorado.

And that one, they had a depredation permit because it was targeting this rancher's cows. And they had tracked it. And that day, as they were tracking it, it had killed one of these cows. And just it was still alive.

They just gutted it.

It basically took it down and just started eating its organs while it was still alive.

Yeah, so they do. Yeah. It was pretty rough. Yeah. The monsters.

We had that. We had an issue with mountain lions. That's up at our other property in Napa. We had sheep. And I was actually on tour with Eminem.

On Valentine's Day.

“And so I was like so excited to get home.”

And take care of these lamps.

And I guess one of the lamps was rejected by the mother. And so we had to bottle feed it. So which is the best thing ever. I love that. Some people think it's like a unnecessary chore to take care of bottle babies.

But I love it. So like three times a day feeding this thing. And she became like a dog. She would follow me everywhere. She's left on my front porch.

Pretty much Valentine. I got a tattoo over actually. Yeah. And. But.

So like a few months later we had had like.

Maybe 10 lamps at that point. Little babies are so cute. Um. And like one morning.

“Oh, well, so our property was like 400 acres.”

And so. And our house was so small. But we had like other little buildings on the property. So I'd set my studio up in one of the other buildings. And so I would drive up there.

It's like a half mile up the driveway. And I was driving one day up to the studio. And I saw this mountain lion like crossing our field. And I really like rushed to get my phone out to take a video. I bet of course they didn't get a very good shot by the time I got the video.

And I turned around and went back to the house. I was like, babe, there's a mountain lion on the property. And I showed him the video and it was like kind of blurry. You couldn't really tell. And we called our neighbor.

And I think the sheriff. And showed them the video. And everybody was just like, well nine times out of 10 when people see it. Say they see a mountain lion. It's just the bobcat or like whatever.

And I was like, no, I know this is a mountain lion. Like I know what I'm looking at. You know, I saw the long tail, the whole thing. And they know like nobody believed me. Like it's big fun or something.

Yeah. Like I'm like, no, I swear it's a mountain mountain. It's a mountain lion. And Ellie believed me. So we went up and took a little hike up the ravine where I'd seen it walk off to.

And I swear that like the lion must have been tracking us back to the house. Because it that night we were. Because we didn't see it. We went up the ravine. And we didn't see the lion anymore.

But we went back home. And then that night we were like watching TV and scrolling through Instagram or whatever. And he showed me this. You know how the Russians they like become friends with all these crazy animals like bears and whatever. So there's like this video of this like Russian guy like in bed with his mountain lion.

And cuddling with it. Boys Russians. I know right. They're psycho. They're not regular white people.

No. No.

And he's like, he showed me this video and he's like, I could never kill one of these.

Unless they fucked with my family. Yeah. That next morning I take my coffee out onto the front porch like I always did. Look down at the sheep pen. And I see this mom sheep laying with her baby that's not moving.

And I was like, this is something's not right. And I go down there and shurn off. There's like the thing marks, you know, the deep thing marks and it's throat. And it's like stomach eating out. And the mom would not leave it side.

And so I go back to the house and I'm like, babe, we lost it. A lamb to the mountain lion. Nobody believed that I saw. And so we called the Fish and Wildlife and they came out and confirmed that it was a mountain lion kill. And so they set up, they were, they put traps in our sheep pen.

And, you know, to see if we could like trap it and relocate it. And so they stayed on property that night.

“And I can't even remember all the details, but basically in the middle of the night we heard this big bang.”

And we thought, oh, the trap closed. And we opened the door and it wasn't that.

And it was standing in our driveway like right in front of the house. And there's like, oh fuck.

“So then Elliot goes down to the sheep pen and he sees the lion.”

And it's like just like those glowing eyes, you know. And then it darts off into the woods. And it had killed another lamb. And didn't the trap didn't go off. And so then the guys, the truckers, they came down and they were like, okay, let's just like hunt this thing, like take the dogs.

So they had like six dogs. And basically for the next like week, tried to get this lion. And couldn't like the dogs were getting all mixed up. They were like wandering off one direction and then going another direction.

And they, they're like, and the the trackers were like, this has never happened.

Like they usually get it like what, what the hell's going on. They were, the dogs were just getting all confused. And we basically, oh, and then another night Elliot was out there thinking that he heard the guys whistling. But I guess it was the cats whistling. So mountain lions whistle. Do you know about that? Yeah.

It's a crazy sound. You can probably look it up. Mountain lion whistle. I need to hear that. Yeah. But he heard whistling.

And he thought it was the trackers like saying, like, we're here. And he was just standing out there. And then 20 minutes go by. And the guys aren't there. And so then they finally pull up.

Um, or he was like, were you guys whistling on me?

“And they were like, no, like, did it sound like this?”

And he was like, yes. And they said, that's the lion's, they whistled to communicate with each other. Put the headphones on so you can hear this. Oh. Whoa.

Yeah. Oh, that's in, that's to home ranch. That, that I go to that place. That's in California. That's outside of Baker's field.

I'm elk hunted there before. That place to home ranch. They had one pond where they set up a camera trap. They set up trail cameras. They found 18 different cats on one pond.

That's crazy. That's not normal. Oh, they have a lot of cats. Yeah. Well, California doesn't do anything.

I know. They're kind of nuts.

“Texas has the complete opposite approach.”

Yeah. You just shoot them. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to have a permit.

They do. We got permits. Because they came back and killed every night. And then they took my Valentine. Yeah.

And I was like, so hard, broken. There's nothing you could do to like lock them up. But. Well, I tried to bring Valentine into the house and put her in a kennel in the kitchen. But try sleeping with a screaming lamb.

Oh. It was like not a thing. We put her back out. And she was fine that night. But the trapers just kept saying, no, we got to just leave everything as is.

And we'll get them. But then like after a week of hunting them and nothing. It was like, what are we doing? Like we should move these sheep. Like I was fighting for that.

But they were just like, no, we got to keep everything as is. Because if you move them and change the. What's going on? It'll kind of like the cattle just like maybe not come back for a while. But then it'll come back.

You know. And so they're like, if we're going to get this thing, we got to leave everything as is.

But anyway, so they finally got the cat one night.

I actually had to leave town and do a show. And Elliot called me and he actually. He actually was the one that shot it. But they got the cat and I felt like this huge sense of relief. And I came home and I thought everything was fine.

And we weren't going to lose anymore lands. And then like a few days later, I woke up and took my coffee outside. And there was a mom sheep dead now. And she was dragged under the fence. And I was like, what the absolute fuck.

So turns out there were two cats hunting together. And that's why the dogs were getting confused and couldn't follow the trail.

And so they weren't even like eating the lambs. They were just killing them.

And so it was like basically them learning how to hunt, I guess.

I don't know. I don't know. But we got another permit and we got the second lion. And then everything was peaceful. But we went down from like 20 to 3 sheep. Oh God.

Yeah, it was awful. Killed 17 sheep. Holy shit, that must be terrifying. Yeah, and I mean, I'm like out there. I'm scared for myself, even.

Yeah, that's living out there. And like going into my studio and stuff like. It was really scary and really heartbreaking. Yeah, I could imagine 17 is crazy. And yeah, it was really bad.

“When you shoot the cat, do you have to bring it somewhere?”

And then they have to like register. Well, they took them the the fish and wildlife to the bodies. But yeah, the dogs, you know, treat them. Because people eat them, like they taste good. Really?

Yeah, yeah, I had some. Wouldn't it be kind of like tough? Because they're like so, mostly.

Eat the loin, like the loin.

Like people eat the roasts. It's it's like pork. Yeah, my friend Steve described it as a superior pork. Yeah, a lot of people eat mountain line. Interesting.

I know. Sounds crazy. But I try it. Have you ever had bear? Have you ever had bear?

I've never had bear. Bears good. Really? Yeah, believe it or not. People like it.

It depends on what the bear is eating. Like if you eat a bear that's eating a lot of fish, it's going to be kind of funky. Mm-hmm. Or if you catch a bear that's been like eating a dead deer,

“for like a couple of weeks, that's not good.”

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like a dead moose. That's-- Does the taste kind of rotten or something? Yeah. Yeah.

It'll smell rotten. Mm-hmm. But if you catch one that's been eating blueberries, it looks like some of the most delicious meat. Yeah.

Yeah. My friend Steve Renella, he has a show called meat eater, and he was hunting black bears in Alaska over this blueberry patch. So he shot this black bear and he's cooking it. And as he's-- he's buttering it.

He did it all in camera. As he's buttering it, like the fat from the bear is purple. Wow. It's like blueberry. And so like the flavor of blueberries was in the meat itself.

That's interesting. He's like it's the most insane meat. It's delicious. I try that. Yeah, it's good.

I like alcohol because my favorite. Um, where do you guys live in now? But when you guys go home back? Tomorrow. No, tonight.

I've got some. I'll give you some. Really? Yeah. I've got a freezer bag.

I have a commercial freezer out here. Oh, sick. I got some alcohol. Yeah. Let's go.

Let's go. That's by far my favorite. Yeah. Oh, it's delicious. The best.

It's the best for you, too. Like you feel different when you eat it. Oh. It's got so much nutrients in it. You've done the access to your hunting and why we want to do that so bad.

Oh, it's first of all. If you use a rifle, it's 100% guaranteed. Like you can't not get a deer. There's so many of them. You have to kill them.

There's unlanion, particular. There's 30,000 deer and 3,000 people. Holy shit. Yeah. And so in L'Anne, you got to actually stay at the four seasons.

So you stay at this like amazing resort and then you go hunt.

That's awesome. Yeah. So I went with, uh, uh, well, we've got a few years. But I went with a whole group of friends one time. It was like seven of us.

We went there and we, we had the best time. We hunted and then we ate. Axis deer and it's like you're, you're, you're overlooking the oceans. It's gorgeous paradise. Yeah.

That sounds like a great thing. But there, that's a deer that evolved around tigers. And they are so fast. Like unbelievably fast. Like if you shoot at one, that's 30 yards away.

And it hears that the boat go off. It'll be out of the way before the arrow gets to it. They, it's called jumping the string. They just duck down and take off. It's not like they know and arrows coming at them.

They just know to run and the way they run is they load up their muscles by getting low and then springing forward. But they do it so fast that, okay, 30, 40, let's say 40 yards. So 40 yards, you've got an arrow that's going 290 feet a second. And from the sound of the boat going off, the pop of the boat going off, they're gone.

Yeah. Which is insane. Can you hunt with rifle out there? Oh yeah. Okay.

“Oh yeah, that's how they did most of hunting out.”

Okay. We went and I went with a bunch of like very experienced bow hunters. Like top of the food chain bow hunters. And we all got Axis deer. But it was a struggle.

It's like a lot of them jump the string.

We wound up realizing that the best time to go was at night.

Not at night, but in the afternoon. Because in the afternoon it's much windier. And so it hides your sound. Because they're just on edge. Because they get hunted 365 days a year.

There's no off season. And they have to hunt them. Because there's so many of them. Like you're like driving at night. You'll stop and turn the headlights to a field.

And you just see thousands of them. Like they're they're infested with delicious animals. And there's no predators. There's zero predators other than people. So they bring in snipers and people with night vision.

And they shoot them at night. And they use headshots. And when you go to like the restaurants in the four seasons. They serve Axis deer. Oh, that's cool.

Oh, it's delicious. It's so good.

What does that place malibu farms?

I think it is. They have insane Venice and Sliders from Axis deer. So good. I mean, it's it's one of the most delicious game animals. But when we went, we did a podcast from there.

And you know, we called it podcast from Paradise. We're all having a good time. And because after that, 150 different people went the next year. And only one of them was successful with a bow. Oh, wow.

Every other one was like fuck this. I'm getting a rifle. This is ridiculous. These things are so fast. But it's an animal that evolved, like I said, around tigers.

Yeah. King Kamea Maya in Hawaii was given Axis deer as a gift from the leader of India.

“And like the 1800s, that's how they got there.”

And then they just took over. Oh, yeah, they took over there everywhere. Yeah. Maui has a lot of them too. But they also have this is a company called Maui Nui.

So like if you love game meat, you can actually buy a game meat. So wild game meat in America, you can't sell. So if you buy, like say if you buy elk, like you go to restaurant, you buy elk. It's farmed. You're getting it from New Zealand.

Oh, wow. Most likely. Yeah. Most, most, I think, most of the elk that they serve in restaurants in America is coming from New Zealand.

Because New Zealand's a similar situation. No predators. And they brought in all these animals. And then they're just infested. And most of it's probably not even really elk.

It's probably stag, which is super similar anyway. But when you get like farm raised elk, that's you're probably getting it from somewhere else. I mean, they probably have some places that are allowed to sell farm raised elk in America. I don't know which one that would be. But wild game, like that you hunt, you cannot sell.

“Because that's how they almost went extinct in this country.”

And the turn of the century, in the beginning of the, I guess, like the 1800s, the beginning of the 1900s, they brought elk to the point of extinction almost. And the same with, uh, white tail deer, because they were market hunting. So, because don't want to have refrigerators, you'd have to get meat all the time. And so, they were just shooting all of them.

Wow. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. But in Maui, you have so many of them.

And then they set up a company called Maui Nui and Maui Nui. You can buy bone broth, Venice and bone broth. They have like meat sticks. And you can buy actual Venice and they'll freeze it and then ship it to you. So, if you want wild game, it's like one of the best places.

And one of the most delicious wild game, too. Yeah. Yeah. Access to your delicious. Yeah.

We want to do that. Oh, it's a great hunt. Yeah.

Because you can't, first of all, you're in paradise.

And you, you're gonna see them. It's not like if you go on an elk hunt, like you could be in the mountains for days before you find any elk. Because, you know, you gotta find out where they are. You gotta listen for bugles. You gotta, you know, you gotta glass a lot.

You gotta look around. You might not be successful. If you, if you bring a rifle to one eye, you won 100% are gonna be successful. And you can kill a bunch of them. Mm-hmm.

And they like package it for you. And send it home to you. Yeah, there's a guy named Bob the butcher. Shout out the Bob. He, uh, he'll butcher them for you and package it for you and all that jazz.

And, um, you know, if you're given enough time, they'll freeze it. And, uh, we actually brought it back to the four seasons. And they put it in their commercial freezer. They froze it for us. And then we, you know, put it in these big, yettie coolers.

And brought it back on the plane. Nice. Yeah. And you could, like, literally get a year supply of your meat in like a few days.

“If you want to do that, and just eat Venice and for the rest of your year.”

Yeah. It's pretty cool. Yeah. We usually try to get a deer every year up and up, too. Mm-hmm.

Do you guys go deer hunting? Well, I don't. Elliot does. Elliot does. I help him clean it, though.

I've been doing that since I was a little girl. Oh, really? My dad taught me. He wanted a kid.

And I would just, he would send me on these, like,

“routs to kick the deer out to him, you know?”

Oh. So I would, like, do the hiking kick them out and push. Yeah. And then we would all gather. It was usually around Thanksgiving.

We'd all gather in the basement and, like, cut the, cut the meat up and skin it and all that. Wow. So I like doing that part. Well, it's cool. It's a great way to be connected to what you're eating.

Yeah. Exactly. It's a different experience.

You have a different appreciation for it.

Oh, yeah. And then something you just, like, buy at this door. They're in a restaurant.

“Like, it's totally different appreciation.”

Oh, 100%. And also, it's like, you know it's organic. It's an actual wild animal. And it's the best life that this animal is ever going to live. And including the best death, because especially if you,

if you're good with a rifle, if you're, you're accurate, you practice. Like, it's, it's dead. Like that. And it's not like getting, it's gut's eaten out by a mount line. You know, or anything else that's going to eat it or old age or winter.

All the horrible ways that animals die. Yeah. You know, they're teeth grind down to nothing. And they essentially start to die of Thor. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Look at his rough. It's a hard life. Yeah. So how'd you wind up leaving Oregon?

Um, so you walking in a quarter mile every day, by yourself, the flashlight trying to avoid being eaten. Yep. How'd you go out of there? Well, I figured out that I needed to, I needed to find a way to make a living in music.

And so I reached out to the only person I had left in my corner, musically, because like at that point, I had lost my record deal. My lawyer dropped me, my manager dropped me. Um, but I was still technically signed to UNPG publishing. And, um, so I reached out to my like point person there who hadn't spoken to in years.

And I said, help me figure out how to make a living in music. I got to figure this out.

“Because that's the only thing I really know how to do.”

And I'm a drop out, so I can't really get a good job. Oh, the editing porn. Yeah. And I don't want to do that. So, um, I met with her in New York.

I flew to New York and we just sat down and had like this long conversation. And I had, like ever since I was like 13 when I first heard a stand by I'm gonna.

I'd always been like, I love that combination of like a pretty, you know, female vocal with hip-hop.

And so I'd always wanted to do something like that. Um, and so I said, I think I could write hooks for hip-hop songs. Like that was kind of like my, what I told her I wanted to do. And, um, she was like, well, we just signed this producer named Alex Kidd. And, uh, that's kind of like his wheelhouse, so you guys should meet.

And, um, so I flew back to Oregon and, um, she connected us on email. And I would go down to the little cafe to get internet. And so, um, I would just, I emailed him and he emailed me back some beats that he had just made. And, um, I would just sit there with my headphones in the cafe and like, hum little melodies into my computer and, and send him back.

But the first one I did was called Love the Wayly. And, um, month after I sent Alex that hook, uh, it was a number one song. Wow. What was that like? Almost crazy.

Going from like, broke and living in the woods in this cabin and then writing a song that, literally took over the world. Yeah, so that's kind of what took me out of Oregon. Because after that, I started getting phone calls, you know, from everybody wanting songs for me. Um, um, had me and Alex come out to work on detox for Dr. Dre.

Um, and Puff Daddy wanted a song that's where coming home came in to play. Um, yeah, it was just crazy. Suddenly I was, I went from nobody carrying to everybody trying to get a song. That's gotta be such an insane experience. To be like, what am I doing?

I'm out in the cabin. I got to go outside to pee. I got to walk quarter mile to the house. You're like completely isolated. Do you have any friends out there at all?

Yeah, I had a couple friends. I made a couple friends when I was out there.

Off to the races. Mm-hmm. It was crazy. How did you adjust to that? I had to be very strange.

It was, and I also felt so much pressure. Because like, I definitely had a little imposter syndrome when I wrote that song. Because I was just like, that was too easy. Like it took me 15 minutes to write that hook. And I sent it off and suddenly everybody wanted to get a song for me.

And I was like, that must have been a fluke.

Like, this is never going to happen again.

I'm never going to write another one like this or whatever. And so so many people are just wanting songs. And I felt so much pressure to deliver a hit song every time. You know? And I was always so hard on myself.

But that became even worse. Just I would just put way too much pressure on myself. I got invited to do so many songwriting sessions. But at that point, like, I had pretty much only ever written by myself. And so being thrown in rooms with songwriters and producers and stuff.

I was so shy. I just felt it was always so hard for me to open up creatively in front of strangers. So I would just like walk out of sessions crying and just be like, I suck. I can't do this. You know?

And it was hard.

That was the hardest part for me.

Just that performing in front of the bunch of people. Just like, yeah, just yeah, just trying to like create hit songs every time I go into a writing session. I just felt like there were so such high expectations on what I would deliver. And I can't force creativity.

“It's like, it just happens or it doesn't, you know?”

But I felt like I had to deliver a hit song every time. And because I put that pressure on myself, it kind of shut down my creativity. And it made it really hard for me to do that. So then I ended up like just leaving a lot of sessions. And feeling like I didn't deserve to be where I was and not good enough.

How'd you get over that? Um, I didn't really. [laughter] [laughter] Yeah.

I just, I don't think I ever got over that. I like, I did a lot of these sessions for a while because I felt like I had to. And then I just kind of stopped taking them. I stopped agreeing to do them because it was just too hard on me. So explain these kind of sessions.

So you go to a studio with producers and like, and they essentially say, okay, let's try to create something. And then you're in there and you're creative process as you by yourself. Like trying to connect with emotions and thoughts and ideas. And now also in your round people. And also you're a little weirded out because you've been living in a fucking cabin.

Yeah. By yourself. You know, that and you're editing porn for two weeks. And it's like that. And I just had this like hit song that was huge.

It was massive. And I just felt like there was such high expectations on me. You know? Right. So it was very hard.

Everybody that I've ever met who's really good has imposter syndrome. Yeah.

“I think it's a part of being genuinely creative.”

Because I think like genuinely creative people don't have that kind of weird ego.

We're like, yeah, finally I'm getting mine.

Because some people do have that or they feel like they deserve this. But I feel like at least most genuinely creative people that I've talked to, when something big happens to them, they're like, this is fucking crazy. Like all of my comedian friends when they start to hit, like when something happens, when they get like a viral clip and then they do a Netflix special or something like that.

And the video and they're like, bro, I'm kind of freaking out. I'm like, we all are. It's okay. Like this is the thing. Like you're going to feel fucking weird.

Yeah. That thing, whatever it is, that imposter syndrome, I think is a good thing. I think it's a sign that you have a healthy mind or at least maybe not healthy. Maybe that's the right word. You have a creative mind.

You know, and that you're, and also everything completely changes. You have a hit song all of a sudden out of nowhere. Number one, like what the fuck? Like that kind of shift in paradigm. Like that is not normal to get adjusted to.

“You have to be a complete psycho to go to be like, all right, as perfect.”

This is what I've been waiting for. You know? Yeah. Because everybody like sees people either on television or, you know,

I'm not, I'm not a famous person.

I'm not popular. I'm not successful. I'm just me. I'm like, and then all of a sudden people know who you are and love you. And you're like, oh my god, I'm a fraud.

Yeah. They don't know about the shitty songs I've written. Exactly. They don't know that like 99% of the songs that I write suck. And then the one, you know.

“I think that's the case with everything.”

You know, I talked to all my friends that are comics also the same thing. Like out of the jokes that they write, like 10 of them suck. And then one, one pops through. But the thing is like you just got to keep cranking. Keep, keep trying to find whatever it is.

That was the hard part for me was to keep going and keep trying. How would you do it? How did you, like, what is your creative process? My creative process will now. A big part of it is not living in LA.

I have to be out in the middle of nowhere. And I like to be alone in the room. Even if I'm writing to somebody else's beat or something like that, I just like to sit with myself and do it. And I just try to focus on how it makes me feel.

You know, I spent some time trying to write what I thought other people wanted to hear.

And I feel like those songs always sucked.

And so just like letting it flow. Almost like I'm not writing it. Like I'm channeling it or something. That's better.

“The songs that like tick less effort tend to be the better songs.”

And the songs that I slave over to try to get them perfect and overthink. They end up doing nothing. John Melanie Camp told me he wrote, "I need a lover that won't drive me crazy in the shower." Yeah. Like that, done.

He was saying it. "I need a lover that won't drive me crazy." No, it makes total sense. I write stuff in the shower. I write stuff when I'm cooking dinner.

It's not like going to a studio from this hour to this hour. And write us on.

Like it never works for me to do that.

So it'll just be random. Like this new album I'm putting out. There's a song called Motivation. And I remember it came to me when I was standing outside the vet's office. When my dog was getting surgery on her ACL or whatever.

They call it in dog world. I was just like pacing outside during her surgery. And this song started coming to me.

“Did she have to do that thing when they cut the bone?”

Yeah. Yeah. I had a dog. She had her both her back legs on that way. She blew up all the--

It's brutal. The recovery was brutal. It's horrible. She was also a puppy. So she had like puppy energy.

Yeah. And it just-- we had to sit down here and-- It was awful. Yeah. And so do you take specific time to just sit and try to write?

Or do you just like let ideas come to you? I usually just let ideas come to me. I like take a lot of voice notes in my phone. Or all write down lyric ideas that come to me. And then I need to be better about making time for it.

Because when I do make time to like go in and be creative, it usually does. There's a balance. It's like I can't force it. But I also can't be lazy and like just avoid it completely.

You know? So I try to balance that. Have you ever read the War of Art? I started it. I started it.

I have copies out there. I'll give you a copy if you don't have one. I think I started the book on tape. I haven't. It's a very small book.

It's very easy. But it's all about that. And Press Field was kind of like an underachiever until he was like 40. And then somewhere along the line he realized that what he really has to do is be a professional. And so he developed this methodology of like channeling the muse.

And instead of thinking of the muse as Bill, you know, instead of thinking of creativity as being the sort of abstract thing, he thought of it as a thing that you summon. Like legitimately show up every day at the same time in front of your computer or your notebook or whatever. However you do it and literally say, I am here to summon the muse. Like I'm here respectfully to call upon you for your gifts.

And if you just show up every day and treat it like that, it will work. It will be just a really crazy thought. It makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you do it? I do it. Yeah. I don't do it every day. But when I do it.

I just sit there and I don't say I'm summoning the muse.

Yeah.

What I do is I go, here we go.

I just say, here we go. I say, here we go. And then I start typing.

“And a lot of times it's like almost like working out.”

Like in the beginning you like, you know, you got to warm up, you got to get things going. You know, you get on the bike a little bit, crack a sweat, start stretching. You know, I'm typing in the beginning. It's just like, well, I fucking suck. This thoughts are useless.

This is not. Yeah. And I got something. Yeah. And I figured out a way to do it with it is more organic for me.

Because I used to just try to write things that we're funny. And now what I do is just write a write on a subject. Like a thing. And then I'll let it, like, if I'm writing about whatever fucking global change, global warming,

fucking earthquakes, whatever I'm writing about.

I'll let it shift to what I don't try to stay on subject. Yeah, you let it just. Yeah. It might completely change to something totally different. A completely different subject.

And I just let it. And then I just try to just get out of my own way. And write as much as possible.

“And then I go over it and try to extract things from that.”

And I take those and I copy and paste them into something else. And then I'll expand on that idea or I'll start fresh with this idea. And it's just a numbers game. It's just a numbers and time game. The amount of numbers, the amount of time that you spend thinking about stuff.

You get these little gifts. Yeah. And that's where the concept of the muse comes from. Because it's almost like it's like some sort of a divine entity. It feels like that.

It does feel like that. Yeah. Everybody says that.

Whether it's authors or musicians or comedians or anybody creative.

They say it feels like it's not even my idea. Like it just came to me out of nowhere. Right. Which is the weirdest thing about the creative process. It's not like a structure you're putting together like a house.

You know, like, I know how to do this. I lay down the foundation. I put up the girders. I do that. It's like this thing.

Like this spiritual, weird entity that you're in contact with. Yeah. For sure. And it's not you. Because you're like empty when the ideas come.

They just like, "Fff." Make their way into your head. You're like, "Whoa, where the fuck did that come?" But then you're responding to your emotional. Like how it makes you feel.

Yeah. Like reading what you're channeling or listening to it. And for me, like I focus mostly on that. Like how is it making me feel? Is it causing some type of emotional response?

Yeah. Yeah. And then those are the magic moments.

“That's why we need to be so weird to do it in a studio.”

With a bunch of people, you don't know, with under pressure. Yeah. For me, it doesn't work. I don't know how. Some people are, like, thrive in that environment.

I don't know how. Yeah. I get it. A lot of rappers. They love doing that.

But I think they feed off of each other. And a lot of rappers, they tell me that, like, they're doing it for their boys. So, like, as they're, like, hitting, like, new lines and coming up with new, new rhymes and new wraps. It's like, they're, they're fucking around with their friends and, like, having a good time. Like, impressing them with, like, strong lines and great bars.

I mean, I've definitely had some moments like that. Especially, like, you can find people you have really good chemistry with. Then it can work. Right. But generally speaking, just going into a room with strangers that doesn't, doesn't work for me.

But, yeah, there are some people that, like, I feel super connected to creatively and I can do that with them. Well, I'd imagine everybody's got their own different little process. But it's just a matter of, like, doing something, like, making the time for it. And I would imagine, also, it's, like, as you get really busy and successful. And there's a lot of obligations.

It's harder and harder to find that still time. Well, yeah. And there's, like, cycles, like, right now. I'm not writing at all because I'm just in, you know, album promotion mode. And so it's all about, like, content and all this other stuff.

So I haven't written this on in a long time. So, and it's also kind of, like, a muscle, like, songwriting for me. Once I get into a songwriting zone, it's, like, coming, like, way easier all the time. But I have to, like, warm up to get into it and get back in that headspace and, you know, warm up that muscle again. I make sense, like, marathon running.

Yeah. Yeah, something. Yeah. I think everything's, like, Bob. Yeah.

You get into, like, grooves. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when you're in the middle of promotion, like, what is the difference?

And you just sort of jot them down and go, one day I'll go back to that?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I just store 'em.

“Does this feel like when you're in promotion time, does it feel weird?”

Like, like, you got to go out and sell it. And you got to... I don't know. About it. I enjoy all the different aspects of it, you know?

I love the, it's all creative for the most part, like, even just, like, making content and filming stuff. Um, it's a, it's a, it's a art form too. So I feel like I'm still, like, getting my creativity out. It's just not in the songwriting. And so it, is it, like, one of those things, we're in the back of your mind.

You're, like, eventually, this will come to an end and I'm going to get back to it. Mm-hmm. And then it starts to, like, itch at, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, I get the itch. Yeah. It's time to get back. Yeah. I'm already feeling it.

I'm ready to write a gun, yeah.

Well, I would imagine that being in a place like Napa, or, like, around, like, peaceful, you know, beautiful, background and, you know, nature. And it's probably like way easier to get in touch with your mind. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

To be trapped in Manhattan. For sure. Be, be, fuck you, you know, though. Yeah. That's exactly why I've stayed away from cities.

Yeah. I guess everybody else have find their own thing, because I have friends who thrive off that shit. I have friends who live in New York City. They can't live anywhere else.

Mm-hmm. And love it. Yeah. Maybe it's because I grew up in a rural environment. Maybe it's because we're not broken.

I think my friends are all broken. Yeah.

“I think it's a comfort thing because, like, I grew up in the woods.”

So it feels like home to be out in the middle of nowhere. But if I grew up in the city, that might feel more comfortable for me. And I might be able to hear myself think better there. But, you know, everybody's different. I think everybody who goes to the woods realizes they need it.

I think it's a vitamin. I really do. I think it's just like how sunlight gives you vitamin D. I think there's something about being in wilderness where you're in tune with all those life forms.

Because it's not as simple as, oh, there's a bird, there's a squirrel. No, the fucking grounds alive. The trees are alive. There's energy that all these things have that is being distributed somehow or another thing in this strange array of information and of just life.

That's all around you that you feel when you're out there. Yeah, it's like forest bathing. Yeah. That just brings, yeah, for sure. And it's also, there's no fucking cell phone service.

So I think there's something to that, too, because the earth feels cleaner. If that makes any sense, like when I'm in a place that has no cell phone service, I swear, there's a subtle difference in the way the world feels. It's like a vortex, yeah. Yeah, because I think, like in this room, we have Wi-Fi, we both have phones.

I think there's signals that are just out there that we can't, you know, you can't tune it in and go, oh, that's a video, my friend sending me. You don't do that, but there's something about whatever the fuck that stuff is that I think your body recognizes as a fog. They say it fucks with bees.

Mm-hmm. Like cell phone signals in particular. Really fucks with bees. And like, okay, well, fucks with bees? I bet it fucks with us, too.

Oh, I'm sure, yeah. Yeah. Because if you're in a place with no cell phone service, the world feels different. And it's not just because you can't check your phone. It's the world, the actual, the actual air around you feels different.

Yeah, I definitely feel that too. Yep. Yeah.

“I think that's how people are supposed to live.”

I think we're doing some weird shit to ourselves. You know? For sure. But the weird shit is cool. In a lot of ways, you know, because it's how we meet each other.

How we talk to each other. You know, how we find out of everything. Well, but good balance of it all, you know. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you have goals? Yeah. What are your goals? Like, because some people don't.

Some people just enjoy just doing. They don't think about like goals. Yeah. I mean, I have like things I want to do before I die. What do you want to do?

Well, I want to be better about putting out more music. Because I do put so much pressure on myself. It's taken me like five years between each album to make one and put it out.

It takes a second, a second cast myself all the time.

Like, this has to be the, you know, the sound that the mark I leave on the world.

“And this is what I want to be known for.”

I'm like, fuck all that. Just capture a moment in time. Like, what am I feeling right now? What vibe am I into? And capture that zeitgeist, musically.

And then move on to the next one. Like, it doesn't all have to be cohesive. I used to just be like, put so much pressure on it. Being cohesive and having like a certain sound or whatever. But now I'm just like, okay, right now this album.

I'm calling the genre bubble grunge. Because it's like inspired by the 90s. Pop and grunge kind of like combine together. But then the next album, I might totally flip it and do something totally different. And that's okay. Like it doesn't all have to be like it can be different.

I can, I can change it up. And so I'm, I'm my goal in regards to that is to put out an album every year instead of every five years. That's a big shift. It's a big shift. But I don't want to look back and just wish I would have released more.

Because I've so much music sitting on hard drives and on Dropbox folder.

That's never come out because I would like make a bunch of music.

And then second guess it and start over and start over again. It's not good enough. It's not good enough. And I'm like, I should have just put everything out. I should have just been okay with like, you know, putting out a bad album or a bad song. It's okay.

But you think that they're making it and putting it out. Perhaps a part of the creative process is boiling it down. There's something they're doing.

“I think so. But I think I take that way too far.”

Do you think that that is in part because of the pressure that you experience for your first thing that hits is number one? Which is a crazy experience. Yeah. And you were really young. Yeah.

You know, also a boom. Yeah. Maybe that was part of it. Just made me like extra hard on myself. But I want to have more fun.

And not take it so seriously. To how do you plan on doing that? How do you plan on having more fun and not taking it so seriously? I'm already doing it. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I just turned 40. And I think that also has something to do with it. Because I'm just like, seeing the end. [laughter]

Like, what am I doing here? Just like torturing myself with all this pressure and not just like having fun and being creative and throwing it out there. You know? So, I'm already doing that. I'm already having more fun.

That's great. But that is one of the beautiful things that comes with age. Yeah. Giving less bucks. Giving less bucks.

And just accumulating experiences to the point we recognize like the flaws in your past thinking. And why did this? And I'm not happy. I did that. And you gather enough of those experiences.

We get a better map of the territory. Like, I think I get it now. Yeah. And then you're really established now too. So it's like you don't have to be as worried about whether or not you know.

It's a beautiful thing that comes with age. The not giving a fuck. We're not getting, you know, like one of the funniest things to see an old person doesn't give a fuck. Oh yeah, old people who don't give a fuck and just say anything. They're fun.

It comes to their mind. It's hilarious. They're fun. Well, thank you for being here. It's a lot of fun.

Yeah. Enjoy that. Enjoy talking to you. And I really enjoy your music. Well, thank you.

“Can I talk a little bit about the album that I'm putting out?”

Absolutely. Okay. It's called wasted potential. It's about me wasting my potential. But it's an album where I'm telling the story of my like upbringing in small town Wisconsin.

Discovering my sexuality and just like it's like a coming of age story. And it's a part of my story. I don't think a lot of people know. They mostly know me from working with M&M and all the things I did after that. But I just felt like it was time.

I think because I turned 40 recently I was like thinking about my childhood a lot. And like realizing I didn't appreciate it enough. I had a great childhood. And so I just wanted to tell that part of my story.

Kind of for the first time ever.

So I'm excited to get that out. And it's important for me to get it off my chest and out so that I could like finally.

Really? Oh, yeah. So depressed about it.

But I think it's because I didn't. I didn't feel like I was like present during my childhood. And I mean I was working a lot. And so it was important for me to get it off my chest and be at a point now where I feel like I can accept that I'm 40. And actually enjoy it.

And so that was the cold gist of the album.

“Well, do you really think that you have wasted potential?”

Oh yeah. Really? How so? Well, when I made music for my mom growing up, it was a completely different lifestyle to now making music in LA and the big world of music. I didn't realize how much work it would be. I didn't realize the grind.

And I think when I first got into it, I was kind of lazy about it.

Because I was like, honestly, I should have been a gentzy. Because I was just like, fuck, does that I want to do this? And so a lot of decisions I made in my career. I feel like, you know, it was all my fault. All the failures that I've had, I realized were my fault for being lazy or not.

Putting in the effort and the grind. Yeah, so I wasted a lot of potential. I had so many huge opportunities when I was younger in the music industry. And then I kind of just like, it was like, this is too much work.

“But is that a part of like a work life balance?”

Yeah. I mean, that's what Gen Z would say. Right? They're all about the work life balance. But in, I feel like in my generation, the millennials, it was all about like work work work work work work.

You know? And I wasn't doing that as much. So yeah, I didn't feel like like turning 40. I was like, I'm not in the place where I thought I'd be. I didn't do all the things I wanted to do by this age.

And it was feeling kind of like a failure. And so.

Do you think that that self critical mindset though is just one of those things.

It's just like, it's, it's actually inherent to anybody that's creative and ambitious. You're always going to be self critical. And that's probably one of the reasons why your music is so good. Like this idea, like it's not good enough. It's not good enough and obsessing over things where you only release something every five years.

But then look at the quality of the songs that you do release that you do love. It's like, there's a balance in there. Like a little bit of self critical, a little bit of like, I'm not doing enough. Like it's. Let it in there, but don't believe it.

You know? Yeah. Life is life. It's life. It's not all, you know.

It's not all like leave a legacy. Because in the end, it really doesn't matter. I know. You know. That's true.

“That's why I'm just trying to have more fun.”

That's great. Yeah. Both things. Both things. Listen, your music's awesome.

Thank you. And it was awesome seeing you with them and I was great. Oh yeah. You came to the show. Yeah.

And also that's how Marshall's named. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So.

So cute. Thank you. And best of luck with your album, with everything else in the future. This is really cool. I enjoyed it.

Me too. All right. Bye everybody.