#2515 - Chase Hughes

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>> Been really good. Just got an awesome lesson. I watched these videos of you describing this intravenous DMT experience. And the first thing I said is, I need to talk to this guy about that. Like, that seems like one of the most insane descriptions of anything,

that anybody's ever experienced, that I've ever seen on one. >> Yeah. >> So tell me about this experience. >> So it's DMT, and this guy makes it, and they put it into a pump. And it's like an anesthesia pump that you'd have in an operating room.

And essentially, they can adjust your, like, milliliters per hour dose. Like they would use for anesthesia, and like they launch you off. You're laying, the space is beautiful. They hold the space really well. And they can keep, what do you mean by that?

They hold the space really well. >> Like, it's a beautiful space.

Like, it's this amazing place where you lay down on the middle of the room.

It's like on a really soft pillow thing. And great music on, and it's very calm. And these people are just unbelievably calm and good human beings to take you through the experience. And the cool thing about this pump is that you can adjust your altitude. So like, you could be in the middle of this and say, I need to go up more.

I want to come down.

“If you need to take a P-break, they'll like pull you down.”

You kind of go onto the runway. And then you go P and you come back and you launch right back up as high as you want to go as fast as you want to go. So it's five and a half hours. And we did, I did one P-break, but it is, it's DMT. Like, the highest, you can feel on DMT.

Like the most you can see on DMT, but it's five and a half hours of that. And the next time I go back, we're going to mix Alzheimer's drugs with this. Why, to see how much I can bring back, to see if it improves like the retrieval. Like, because you know, like when you're in the DMT space, you're like, I have access to all this stuff. Like, oh my god, I wish I could bring this back.

I want to bring this back so bad. And it seems like we're protected from bringing it back. It does, it does. Like a dream, yeah, there's, there's real similar comparisons to the dream state, the dream state is very strange. So I've had like profound dreams and, well, or really bizarre dreams.

And when I wake up, they're so crystal clear. And with, I go to take a P, I have a cup of coffee. Yeah. I can't remember them anymore. Yeah.

I barely, barely can grip them. They just slide through your fingers. It's like we, there is a protective layer there. It seems like it has to be, because if there was anything that you experienced in the regular conscious state that was that profound, you would remember it forever.

Yeah. Just think of a great thing.

“You just, you have to see fight this weekend.”

I remember everything. And we got it. So like drilled into my brain. And that is like nothing compared to a DMT experience. Yeah.

And it's, it just seems like I've never met someone who's done DMT that would just,

Oh, yeah, it's a psychedelic, it's a hallucination. I've never met anybody that's actually done it. And then we'll, we'll just go back and say, I hallucinate it. There's a few people that say that. I've actually, I've read this one piece by this guy.

I forget his discipline. I forget what, but serious academic and his, his position after I think he did, like 100 DMT trips. And his position was that this is all being concocted by your visual cortex in your brain. Your imagination, those his position.

But I mean, why wouldn't you go to Walmart on a DMT trip then? But I don't argue.

“I don't think that's what I just think, you know, it's because it's very”

disorienting and, you know, you really should sit still. But I think that there's contrarians in the DMT space. Why don't you just see a target or a 7/11 or something? Well, right, right, right. I see what you're saying.

Something that your imagination could concoct. Like a dream, like in a dream, you might be a target. Yeah, and you had on Andrew Gallimore. Yes, I hear. He talked about this world making part of our brain.

Yes. Man, that really hooked me in. And during this six hour journey, experience, whatever you want to call it. At the end of, I mean, it's DMT. Like your, like, it's just realities gone.

Good bye. It's like, everything's gone.

“And at the end of this, I, on camera, I asked about his dead 39 times.”

I wasn't concerned what the answer was. I just was like, in my dead. And coming toward the end of this experience, I was balling. I was crying. And it, it just felt like I had to wrap myself in some kind of ego in order to,

just return back here. To come back, there's no way for me to come back and not have some little ego thing. And it made me so sad. Coming back that I just didn't want to come back at all. You know what I'm talking about?

It's like Avatar Depression times a million.

[laughter] For people who don't know what I'm talking about. When the movie Avatar came out, it was so wonderful. And they, these people seemed like to live such a righteous, peaceful existence in the forest that people came back and they, they were depressed that they don't live in the Avatar world.

Yeah.

“It was like a psychological condition that was, it was happening with so many different therapists”

that people started calling it Avatar Depression. That's brilliant. It's got a name, like in the '90s there was the Truman Show syndrome. Right, right, right. But I mean, how bad asks is your fucking movie?

It creates a psychological condition and people that wished that reality was like your movie. Yeah. I love that. It did feel like that.

Times, times a million or whatever it is.

Yeah. And one of the things that I didn't know happened was my wife was with me, Michelle. And the night before when we were at their house, they just said, you can pick a violin. I said, let Michelle pick a violin. And I was in the other room, and Michelle was with this guy who makes the DMT.

And he said, "Would you like to pray over this DMT?" And Michelle did that. And I didn't even know she prayed over it. And the next day, and I'm not saying there's anything here. But when it started, the first thing that happened was like these alien beings or whatever,

kind of pinned me down on this table and ripped me open. Like from pelvis all the way up to my neck, like all the way open. And I could hear my organs kind of moving around inside my body and they're doing something in me.

And the second thing was, they pushed my head back up on the table.

And this big drill bit went up inside my nose, like all the way to the back of my head. It didn't hurt. There's no pain or anything. And they were doing that for probably 45 minutes, a long time. And it was freezing cold. And then after this journey, I told Michelle about this.

“She's like, "That's what I asked them to do. I asked them to fix your heart and your brain."”

So I have a heart thing going on and I have a brain disease, which is why I was doing this in the first place. And that was the first thing that happened on that journey. I'm not saying there's causation. Did you get looked at afterwards to see if they didn't anything? I have it because they have to do a pet scan and it's so much radiation.

I can't even hug or sleep with my wife or my two-year-old for 48 hours. It's a ton of radiation. But fuck that. What is the condition that you have? In the brain, I have measual temporal sclerosis.

Yeah, we talked about this the last time you're here. Yeah. And I had a seizure like the night before. This is the thing that you said that methylene blue is really helping you with. You know, many people have ripped that out of our show and made commercials for their company and stuff out of it.

Oh, I'm used to that. There's somebody ads for me selling everything from coffee makers to heart-on pills. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Once you've got a great name for your business, you need a great domain. And Squarespace makes it easy to lock in a domain.

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Pretty quickly. Yeah. But I will say, just to go back to this dream thing, you were talking about. The way that I get people to understand this. If you're in it, I'll walk you through this really quick.

Let's say you're in a dream right now. And I'm just here in your dream, we're chilling out, hanging out. And let's say you don't know it's a dream yet. And I look over and I say, what is that UFO spaceship over there?

And you look over that flying saucer thing.

You'd be like, oh, it's like eight feet or something like that. But then if I, if you know it's a dream, and I ask you how far is it? You're still going to say it's eight feet. And then I ask, what is it made out of? You're going to say, oh, it's aluminum or whatever that thinks made out of.

But there's no aluminum in your brain, right? So I, and then I ask you again, like, what does it made out of? And eventually, you'll get to a place where you say it's made out of me. It's made out of consciousness. And then I say, what is the distance made out of?

That entire eight feet of distance is also made out of your consciousness.

“And then I say, well, why did you have to manufacture eyeballs in your dream to see out of?”

And then what are the photons? Like you're seeing colors and all this stuff in your dream.

There's no photons bouncing off of stuff in your dream.

The entire body is fabricated. Your eyes are fabricated. Like you're seeing all the stuff without your eyeballs at all. But you made up eyeballs to see it all through. And then the distance, like from you to that flying saucer, you say, it's eight feet.

That distance is zero. Like there's not eight feet inside of your brain. So kind of walk people in to show that everything that you would do, like, not in a dream, like sitting here in the studio, to prove that this picture of water is real. You could do identical.

You could do everything in a dream that you would do in waking reality to prove that something is real. And then you realize that the distance between you and that thing is a, made up of consciousness and b doesn't exist. Whoa. Does that make sense?

It does make sense. It does make sense.

Because we assume that because we have tools to measure distance and sound and touch,

and all those different, different senses that we possess, that this is what the world's made out of. Yeah. And it makes sense. So like, and there's dream logic, right?

So like, if you're all of a sudden writing on your rhinoceros to the pizza factory, you're like, oh yeah, it's normal. Right. So that if you look at like a galaxy, it matches this, the shape of DNA. If you look at the toroidal shape of like gravitational stuff, it matches the shape of a red blood cell.

You look at an eyeball close up. It looks like a, like a nebula. And if we just look at as above so below, like any of that is even remotely true, then dreams might tell us more than we think about what's going on here. And in this, what we call reality.

“Have you ever seen the comparison between the universe itself and a human neural tissue?”

No. It's bananas. It's identical. An image? Yeah.

It's like an image of the known universe with an image of, is it a brain cell or a human neuron? Or a human neural cell? I forget which one was. But when you look at the two of them together, you're like, okay, is this whole thing a giant fractal inside of a fractal? Yes.

If that's an infinity is. You know, we'd like to think that, like this is what it looks like. That's a brain cell. And that's the universe. Good Lord.

Get put the fuck. I mean, gosh. It's the same thing.

“So it's, at least it looks like the same thing, right?”

You know, when we think of infinity, we think of what we are here on Earth that there is no distance that you could travel where you find the end. That the infinite universe just keeps going on. But it's way crazier than that. It might be that the entire infinite universe that doesn't have an end is actually a part of a cell. That's in another being.

That's in an infinite universe that has no end, that's actually just a part of a cell. Yeah. That's in a part of an infinite. And it goes on and on and on. Yeah.

And we have some evidence that that might be the case just in the weirdness of these supermassive black holes that are in the center of every galaxy. So these supermassive black, we had Michelle Thowler on the podcast. So they're fascinating woman. She's an astrophysicist and just discussing all the, the strangeness of the universe, the more that we experience it. The more the deeper they look, the crazier it is.

It's like the further the James Webb telescope goes out, the more shit that they find they're like, what is going on? What is that? How is that there? This is not supposed to there. They think that there's a real possibility that inside every black hole is a completely new universe.

Yeah. That it's some sort of a passageway. So if there's hundreds of billions of galaxies just in the known universe and every one of those galaxies has a supermassive black hole. Inside of it, in the center of it, you go through that and you are in hundreds of billions of new galaxies all with black holes. And then you go into those fucking universes and you find creatures with brains and you get to their brain and their brain looks like a universe.

Yes. That was well said.

It's that needs to be a short.

But it's infinite. So there's no end to that process. It's not like there's us and then we are a part of a brain cell of a creature. No, we're a part of a brain cell that's a part of a creature that's a part of a universe that's a part of a brain cell that's a creature that's a part of a universe. And that's what real infinity is.

There is no end. Yeah. I agree with that. And we need less certainty about this shit. Why do people in this cell?

I have this bigger now. Well, you said about coming back from the DMT trip about how your ego tries to kind of reclaim reality for you.

“I think that is a genuine problem with human beings today in which they cling to ideologies, to political parties, to ethics, morals, religion, whatever it is that they connect themselves to inseparably.”

And I think part of that is just being afraid of the vastness of what this experience really is.

And the way to shield yourself from it is to pretend to be sure.

That's it. Yeah. It just gives me a little blanket of I've got this figured out. I know what's happening. Yeah.

We need less certainty in the world. Yeah. We need more people to say as far as we know before they say some shit. Yeah. Sound science.

As far as we know, why can't we just put that phrase in front of more things? If you're doing DMT, if anyone does DMT, maybe it's a hallucination. But it turns me kind of described it so well when he said death by astonishment. And there's no words. The moment you try to label anything that you see in the DMT space, it's like your destroy.

It's an active destruction. Almost. There's no words for it. They don't exist. Because words or sounds that we make with our face to describe known reality.

And that there's no words for that experience. Yeah. And we invented language for trading chickens and spices and stuff. That's what language is for. Yeah.

And if you just look at like one little sciencey thing, like that's weird. Like quantum entanglement. And then somebody says we can't explain how this is like faster than light or anything. Well, we can explain it if we go to a dream and then say that distance doesn't exist. Right.

Distance isn't real. Right.

“So, I think that's, I want to know about the UFC fight at the White House.”

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“No, the temperature was perfect. I was very concerned about that.”

I was really concerned that these guys are going to have to fight in the heat. But that was not an issue at all. It seemed like it was in the 70s. And it was the storm like miraculously just passed us. Like there was all these weather warnings at one point in time.

The fight was supposed to start at 8 p.m. And at one point in time, one of the weather experts wanted us to start at 10.30. Yeah, because the 1030 that which would have been a disaster. 1030 night would have been a disaster. Because it's a six hour show.

You know, or close to it, whatever it is. X-A, 910 or 211. I guess it was five hours. But somehow another storm just like almost like went around the White House. I mean, I don't know mysterious.

I don't know what that is. I don't know if that science or if that's consciousness. I don't know what steered the storm or if it's just random luck. It could have been all the above. But all my fears of the weather getting in the way of the fights were.

It didn't mean anything.

“And then there was this long sort of ceremonial thing where they had jets fly over.”

And you know, they played music and all this different stuff.

So by the time we got to the actual fights dark out. Perfect. The weather was perfect. So that was an issue at all. And it was just the magnitude of the event.

I know people saw it on television and looked and saying. But the magnitude of the event being there alive. So there's the event that's taking place on the lawn of the White House. And that has 4,000 plus people. The main event.

Yes. So the actual UFC. There's a bunch of military guys that are standing up in the back. There's like 1,000 of those. And there's 3,000 plus that are seated.

All these people are seated. But then behind that. Not that far. Like 100 yards, 200 yards, whatever it is. I guess it's more than that.

Maybe 300 yards. There's the ellipse. The ellipse has 85,000 people. This is going for free. Yeah, it's like in the whole White House equals fear.

Whatever it is. Wow. Yeah, so this area, they have giant screens set up. And they have, you know, huge speakers and sound. And so 85,000 fans are watching the fights live on the screens.

And they can see the lights of the fucking this claw dome in the distance. And they can see the White House in the distance where the fights are taking place. They're watching it on massive screens with commentary. And it was insane. And you could hear them roar.

So you hear the crowd from here. And then you hear 85,000 people in the fucker. You could hear it in the distance. It was insane. It was insane.

Just a magnitude of it was insane. Unlike anything else you've ever seen.

On be on, I mean, I'm a hyperbolic individual and I'm always like, this is the greatest.

This is awesome. Like that was the wildest experience that I've ever had in my 20 whatever years of calling combat sports. There's nothing even close. Nothing even close. It was the greatest night of fights of all time.

And it was the only night in the history of the sport where every single fight ended by knockout. Did they all? Every single one. Seven fights. Seven fights.

Every one of them ended by knockout. Wow. Which never was unprecedented. Unprecedented. Wow.

It was like the perfect experience for anybody that had never watched the UFC before to see it that way. At the White House like that. I mean, it was nuts. A huge experience for the fans that got to be there in the ellipse. And I mean, I saw videos. They were having so much fun.

And it's like, everyone's in there for free. You don't have to pay for the ticket. It's just 85,000 people out there. They're all screaming and cheering and the drinks are flowing. And it was wild.

I mean, just absolutely wild. What a 250th. Yeah. Wow. And it's a sport that was like band just what 15, 20 years ago or something.

So when the UFC, so when I first started work of the UFC was in 1997.

And back then, you had to watch it on Direct TV.

“I had Direct TV just because that was the only way to watch the UFC.”

That's why I didn't have cable. And then Zufa purchased it. So the Fatida brothers and Dana White. They started running it in 2001. And that's when I came aboard it again.

So I'd quit in '98. I worked from '97 to '98. And then I quit and then they brought me back in 2001. And when that was going on, it was band from cable. And they slowly started working it back.

They got it on Fox Sportsnet, which was the first time I ever accommodated for the UFC. That was UFC 37 and a half, a very special show that they put on for Fox Sportsnet. Try to introduce people to the sport. And so that was the first time it was on like cable again. And then they started getting paper view buys and started growing and gathering steam.

But even back then, it was like you were doing porn or something or snuff film. So you were doing something that was damaging for your career. You know, and people would like, look at you. You're working for a cage fighting organization. Why would you do that?

Cut to 25 years later. It's on the lawn of the White House. And it is one of the most watched sporting events in the history of the world. I don't know what the total overall views are as of now.

“But I know that it was like well over a, I think it was 150 million just by Monday.”

Unbelievable. Just by Monday.

But now between now and between then and now,

“now we're dealing Tuesday, like this is probably another 50 or 60 million people watched it.”

I'm not paramount plus just to just to watch it on YouTube. I'm sure. I don't know. 13 bucks or something. And it was.

But man, what a hell of an event. That was amazing event.

I wish I would have stayed up longer, but I watched the first few fights.

It was fantastic. The main event was the greatest fight of all time. It literally was the greatest fight of all time. Because the guy that won it just engaged. He was in many books six to one favorite or six to one underdog rather,

which is crazy odds for a guy that was an interim lightweight champion, fought the best the best. One of the best to ever do it. BMF champion. I mean, just super durable real dangerous guy.

And that's how good Ilya Tuporia is. That's how good Ilya Tuporia is. Ilya Tuporia in many people's eyes is the most skilled of the new generation. And the new generation is the most skilled of all time. And Ilya was like the top of the mountain.

And most people thought that he was going to be too much. And he was too much for a while.

And he almost took Justin out in the second round.

And then Justin rallied. And then Ilya looked like he got really damaged in either the first of the second round. And he was have a real trouble seeing out of one of his eyes. And then Justin started landing bombs in the third round. Ilya had slowed down quite a bit.

It looked like he had really tried to finish Justin in the second. And sometimes when you try to finish a guy, you just hit the gas way too much. And you can't recover in between rounds. And Justin recovered. And just started battering Ilya in the third and fourth.

And by the end of the fourth round, Ilya quit on his stool. But he couldn't see out of either eye. He had got kneaded into the body real bad when he was on the ground. He just and like literally just hadn't had him down with his two hands. And just smashed a knee into his rib cage.

And he could see him going like that. And that was the end of the round. And then he had to retire on his stool. And I mean like you're broke a rib. That probably could have happened.

“But I think maybe more significantly was the eye damage.”

Both of his eyes were swollen shut. His nose was fucked up. He had taken so many punches to the face. And it looked like perhaps orbital damage. Like maybe he had a fractured orbital because his whole thing

had just swollen up on both sides. He was unrecognizable. And you know the guy hung in there as long as he could. But when you can't see, you can't see. And when you're that battered, sometimes it's smart to stop.

And he's a very smart guy. And I think you realize like there's I can't defend myself right now. I can't see. This guy smashing me. It's called a day.

This is what it is. It's preserved my body and my brain and rebuild and come back another day. But for Justin, it was like one of the most epic things I've ever seen in my life. For him to to win like that, but everybody had counted him out. He was saying it was going to be his last fight. It was like a retirement fight.

37 years old, been in the game forever. You know, who's who of all time greats in the sport. And this is going to be his last fight. And he's like what if I can win the title at the White House. What an ending to a career.

And that's what everybody was saying. Like yeah, but you're not gunna because you fight nearly a deporia. He was like, all right, we'll say. Wow. And he pulled it off.

He pulled it off. It was insane. It was epic. Absolutely epic. What do you think that what do you think the mindset is between somebody who.

You know, you walk in as an underdog and wind up winning. Even though your skills may not be more proficient in the other guy.

“What do you think the mental difference is between like somebody who loses or wins?”

Well, there's a lot of factors.

One of the factors is that Justin has always been incredibly durable.

I mean, it might just be a genetic thing. He even joked around about it. Like science needs to take a look at this. Hard ass skin I have. Like I see he very rarely gets cut at all.

And he's like, I got these hard ass bones and a hard ass skin. He was joking around like science needs to study this. And it's true. I mean, he really is insanely durable. He's been rocked and hurt before and he's been stopped in fights before.

It was knocked out in the last second of the last round by my back. Excuse me, Max Holloway in the BFF title, which was an insane fight. But the guy is just he has zero quit in him. It doesn't exist. Like if you're looking for quit, you go into a room with empty.

The quit room has no one in it. There's nothing in there. He's not going to quit. He can lose because he's a human, but he's not going to quit. And he's also been into the deep trenches before.

The deep trenches of these five round chaotic and sane battles. And oddly, he thrives in those kind of battles. He's described as the most violent man in the most violent sport.

Since the moment he burst onto the scene when he fought Michael Johnson in the UFC at least, he's just he's of extraordinary dude, just a very extraordinary dude. And not the most technically skilled, like Elia looked technically better than him. But it didn't matter. Just didn't found a way to land shots, found a way to like persevere from the early rounds

where he was in real trouble. And just shocked the world. It was amazing. One of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life. That's cool.

It was fucking amazing. I was there. Oh my God, I talked a bunch of people into going. I didn't want a Shane Gillis was thinking about not going. Oh, you gotta go.

It's going to be epic. It's going to be once ever thing. Not once in a lifetime. Once in anybody's lifetime. So never happen before.

It's probably never going to happen again.

Probably not. No. But yeah.

“But that's something you have to see in experience.”

Yeah. And as so many people are trying to make it a partisan thing. Like they're mad at people for being there. Like, oh, you support Trump. Like it's a fucking fight at the White House.

Doesn't mean you endorse foreign policy. Like shut the fuck up. Just please. Just please stop. And again, it's this thing, the ego thing where people are just they just want so badly.

And on both sides, for sure. You know, the right celebrates this as a win for masculinity and patriotism and all these different things. Like, okay, settle down. Everybody settle down. We should all be together.

And I mean, one of the things that I wanted to do when we went to the White House, try to push through psychedelics for therapy for veterans and people.

You know, first responders, people struggling with PTSD is.

You need to take these steps to give people a path to change their mind.

“I think that's the title of Michael Collins book.”

And it's a great way to describe it. Change mind. Yeah. Change your whole perspective. And there's no better way to change your whole perspective than a complete dissolving of your ego momentarily.

Because it leads for a while, just lock it all the way, push it out, and then you get a chance to see what it actually is doing. And the effect that it has when you let it back into your life. Yeah, how much of these clothes do you want to put back on? Right. I described it as like control, all delete for your brain.

And then when your brain reboots it as one folder. And that folder is just labeled my old bullshit. Yeah. And you have a decision to make the go back into my old bullshit. And most people do at least a little.

I do a little. Yeah. But for sure, you recognize that it's your old bullshit instead of thinking you are who you thought you are. Yeah. And it's a lot of stuff that wasn't didn't really belong to you.

It's like we act like decorator crabs all throughout our lives. We're just kind of grabbing these little things. Yeah. And you realize that.

“And I think that the, just talking about this politics thing,”

I think separation is the number one greatest deception of all time. The biggest problem with the biggest problem that we have and the biggest deception that we have. It's like we are separate. And the one thing that you see and you do it some of the, and I mean this therapeutically. I don't mean you're like you're taking mushrooms and going to go into a concert.

When you, when you do this like psych, therapeutic psychedelics,

the first big realization you have is like, oh shit.

This is all me. We're all kind of connected. We might be one thing, but there's something here that's connecting all of us. Yeah. Whatever that is.

Well, you want to call it consciousness or our souls are connected or something. Yeah. There's something where we're connected that we're kind of denying for some strange reason. And I think that that's one of the reasons. I think you, you may be would agree that we're in a loneliness pandemic right now.

We have more rampant loneliness around the world than we've ever had before. And if you look at how this is evolved, I shouldn't know it's coffee. Thanks, man. Gotcha. So if you look, cheers, sir.

I think you, man. If you look at this loneliness, and people are, you could stand in a room full of people and still feel lonely. For so many people, the majority of the world right now. Yeah, is in this loneliness pandemic. So what's really going on, and this is my opinion, feel free to toss it.

But we're in a place that's becoming more and more performative on a daily basis. Just fake artificial. Let me say what people want to hear. Let me act out people want to, how I want to be perceived. Sure.

What you mean is that if I'm even, if I'm a little bit performative, no matter who it is, my best friends,

But in the back of my mind, I know that I'm performing. I know for a fact that probably not even my spouse has ever seen me. Right. They can't like me. They can't love me because that's not me.

“And I think this hyper performance world of, I don't mean performance.”

I mean, like, let me act out this thing. I'm going to, I'm going to act a certain way. And because let's look at, if you look at our ancestors, I had to worry about, like, you and I, where maybe eight, nine years apart. But when we were in elementary school of middle school, we did some stupid shit.

We had to worry about 20 people making fun of us.

And now we got to worry about 20 million.

And that is a, that is an existential difference between those things. So we get better at hiding, shame, and pretending like we don't have it. And then what, if now going back to separation, now this is what I call the disease of specialness of, I am special, which means, I'm the only one here pretending, and everybody else has got their shit figured out.

And then that isolates me even further. And not realizing that everyone has this, everyone has this little crap going on. And, like, the fear that people feel of, like, if I'd just be real, then I'm going to get made fun of, I'm going to get rejected.

“I'm going to be kicked out of the tribe. It's not real.”

Café in a best form. With Cuba, with jeder café of Knopfdruck, and Gunnospoment, then with the nine Cuba, one capsule machine from Chibu, and there's no...

It's not real, but it can be real, depending upon your circumstances.

So if you are in a very enclosed, ideological tribe, and there's no... It's not real, but it can be real, depending upon your circumstances. So if you are in a very enclosed, ideological tribe, and there's no tolerance for any deviation from whatever the narrative is.

Yeah. You know, this is a real problem with social media. This is a real problem that... It wasn't like that. I mean, I know I'm like one of those old people that's like, back a martyr,

but when I was young, you were allowed to have different opinions. Like, it was normal. I had friends that were conservative, and I would make fun of them, and they would make fun of me.

And it was normal, like you kept those friends,

because no one was telling you to get rid of those friends. There was no pressure to be a part of a group. There was no silence as violence bullshit. There was a bunch of people that thought differently, and you talked about stuff. And we weren't as informed.

That's the fact we didn't know as much about how the world works. That's the fact. But now that we do, one of the things that we should all be acutely aware of with spending so much time interacting with each other online is that a lot of the people that you're interacting with are not real.

And not a small number. If you are on X, it... You know, look, there was an FBI analyst that he... Before England... Before England...

They're bots. Like, actual not human. AI bots. AI bots is a big percentage. And then there's actual humans who work for organizations that push narratives.

You can hire an organization to push a certain narrative. You can hire them to support you, or you can hire them to attack your enemies. You can hire companies that will artificially create a movement of people that agree. But this person's a bad person, that this project's a bad project,

that this is a good idea, that he's a good person, that he's a good politician. Whatever it is, you're not dealing with genuine thought. You're dealing with bullshit. And here's where it gets really weird. I think it's natural.

And I think everything is nature.

“And I think this idea that this artificial communication”

that we've developed through social media is what's really fucking everybody up. I don't think that's the case. I think this is a natural progression of nature. The idea that our stupid fucking creativity and intuition and technological ingenuity, it can bypass nature, I think, is horseshoe.

It is nature. And I think nature is creating this convergence. It's creating this very bizarre convergence of humans and artificial intelligence through a bunch of ways that are unproductive and a bunch of ways that are productive. But all of that gathering together in a device that's like almost impossible to resist.

If there was anything else that you use six hours a day or eight out, if you're a good person.

Like a lot of kids are on seven, eight, nine hours a day. Like if there's anything else like that, you would think that person's got a horrible addiction. But for us, we've accepted it as a normal part of society. And whatever that interaction with it that we have, that deep connection we have, is only going to get deeper. And it's ultimately going to lead to some sort of hive mind.

And it'll probably not be a hive human mind only.

“I think it will be a human AI hive mind.”

And I think one of the things that's happening to us is there's this weird movement to. This is weird movement to discredit traditional femininity and traditional masculinity. And there's this bizarre over celebration of outliers of weird gender people, of people that are confused with their gender. I think that's because if you play that out, this is a new thing. Again, I'm an old man.

But when I was a young guy, there was cross dressers. There was guys that got off on wearing women's clothes.

There was always stuff like that.

There's always been people agenda dysphoria. But there was never like this. And this is also coming at a time where microplastics are disrupting our endocrine systems. Big time. Big time.

So testosterone levels are dropping. And we're like, oh my god, it's a crisis. What do we do about it? It's natural. Our use of plastic is probably natural. It's probably all somehow or another connected to take us out of our territorial primate bodies.

And move us into some new stage of existence. Like some post biological. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

I think it's inevitable. And I'm not fighting it. I agree with that.

“Like we're moving toward that direction.”

He most certainly thinks that we are moving into direction where we converge. And I mean, he said about this is what mean, the dudes literally cutting holes in people's heads. Yeah. And shove and fucking circuits in there. Yeah.

And doing a lot of wild shit with it. I mean, people are using their eyes like aim bots.

And a paralyzed gentleman that we haven't had on the podcast was the first new link patient.

I watched that. Yeah. He said it's like a cheat code. Like he could see where he looks. That's where the cursor goes.

Well, Pau. You know, like he's shooting people is mine. Right. Yeah. He's playing video games with his mind.

And he's like, excellent at it. Well, you've got to think, well, eventually you'll be able to move your body that way. And then eventually you'll have all sorts of other tools that didn't exist before. And one of the things that Elon has famously said is you're going to be able to talk without words. That's the hive mind.

We're moving towards that. And this gets us into all this weird UAP shit. Like, what are these aliens? What are these experiences that people are having? Like, what is this all a mass hallucination?

Is it us from the future? Is it us from the past?

“Is it another species that's far more advanced than us that's come down here to monitor us?”

And shepherd us through our very difficult time? Whatever it is, they seem to be what we're going to be if we keep going in this direction. Our brains are far larger than monkeys. Yeah. Our weaker, pound for pound than any of the other primates.

So what do they look like? They look like these fucking spindly things with no muscles in giant heads. And they communicate telepathically, universally. Like, everyone from all over the world, every planet or every country rather than the experience these creatures, they all say the same thing.

They all say they communicate with them telepathically. Which, that's where we're going. Which is exactly what your experience on DMT. Right. And like you can get a test drive of what that's like.

Do you know that the original, when the original scientists or, I guess, whether anthropologists or what kind of people were studying ayahuasca,

when they first went down to the Amazon, they wanted to call harming telepathine.

They didn't know that it had already, because the rules of scientific nomenclature, it had already been named. So they didn't know. So this substance that these people had created, one of the aspects of it, they wanted to talk, they wanted to talk to it as telepathy, that they want to refer to it that way.

So that was what they were going to call it scientifically. Wow. Because they had experienced these telepathic moments while on it. But because it had already been named, they weren't allowed to rename it. So they just stuck with harming.

But harming had a real chance of being called telepathy. That's beautiful. Wild. Yeah. Yeah.

And it just seems like consciousness is coming to the forefront of every debate right now. Yeah. The telepathy tapes shot out of a cannon. Like nobody has ever heard of that stuff. And I think you had the director or something on this.

And it just seems like the level of certainty that some people have about consciousness is adorable.

Yeah. To me, it's like where these little hairless monkeys. And we're like, every generation is like, oh yeah, that we didn't know a hundred years ago. But now we know. We know now.

Right. It's just ridiculous. Yeah. But that's the ego. Right.

That's the certainty. Yeah. We need that certainty.

“I think we're at a place where curiosity may be except for politics.”

Curiosity isn't really dangerous anymore.

It's like people are scared to be publicly curious or to be a public question something. Like why is this here? Why is that there? Do you know who Ignacio Simulvice was? No.

He was a doctor back in the day. No idea what year it was. But it was very, very early days. He was the guy who said, hey, maybe in between these operating room patients. What if we watched this blood off of our hands?

Or do this in the next operation?

And he got laughed out of the room and then eventually thrown into an insane asylum where he died for questioning this thing.

And it seems like so much of what's going on with psychedelics research, even though like document after document. It's showing it's the most effective thing for PTSD and anxiety and depression and addiction and all this other stuff. And I'm not a champion researcher in any of the stuff. But it seems like kind of coming out. People are getting the same treatment as this guy did when they're coming out.

Even though like it's been documented so well. Yeah. It's still a schedule one drug. Well, I think now that's changing.

“And I think there's, and I think one of the things that's changing it is the acceptance of it by the right.”

And one of some of them at least, the old boomers they don't want to let go. But the young guys, like especially special forces, guys, seals, Rangers, those kind of guys that come back. So many of their buddies have had experiences and then recognize when one of their friends is struggling and take them to have these experiences. And that word is getting out. Sean Ryan's responsible for a lot of that because he's talked really openly about it and obviously he has a huge platform.

But Marcus Latreau, you know, him talking about it and then Rick Perry, the former governor of Texas, Republican governor of Texas who hated marijuana, hated psychedelics, thought it was all just a bunch of hippie bullshit. Well, he had brain atrophy, natural age-related brain atrophy. And the doctor said, oh, it's just pretty normal, you know, standard, you're fine. Goes and does this eye-began session comes back.

Rick did it himself. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, a couple. He's done a few. Goes and does this eye-began session comes back. The doctor says, you know, he's 25% approval improvement rather in your brain atrophy. So then six months later, he goes back again for another skin. His brain atrophy is gone.

It's gone. He says he feels different. He thinks different. He feels better like his mind works better. So it's not just an experience eye-began in particular. It seems to be neuro-regenerative in a profound way. Yeah. But if this was a drug that you could patent, the pharmaceutical drug companies would be all over this shit. Yeah. And it'd be that it's proving to be one of the most effective drugs ever tested.

If you're looking at like efficacy versus like a sample size, it's one of the most effective ever tested. Andy Stump and I just did a show about it. We're talking about this stuff. And he's brought a lot of awareness to this. And if I think if we could get a little bit of awareness to it, I think we could cure a lot of this stuff.

“But I think the number one thing is like, is there a way that we can help to get this faster to people?”

And they're working on it. Brian Hubbard and Rick Perry that named Rick Perry said openly that this is my life's mission now. Yeah, really. Yeah, I mean, former governor, Republican governor of Texas. Yeah. His life's mission is to promote psychedelics. I'm so glad. Oh, I'm so glad.

And this is another, I beggin is the best one to start out with because I beggin has zero recreational use. It's zero. You, it's not fun. Nobody likes it. It's not a good time. You throw up, you shake yourself, you freak out for 24 hours. But when you come back, you're a different person. And if you're willing to do that, if you're willing to do that, you can change. You could, you could do a lot of fixing all that's, and also maybe even more importantly, be aware of what these little traps.

These little, these little deeply carved grooves that you're conscious and it seems to comfortably slip into over and over again,

Yeah, in a very profound way that you can't get anywhere else.

“Yeah, and it's just, I think it zooms you out to where you're like, oh, shit. I thought all that was important.”

Like you're talking about zooming out on these galaxies within galaxies and black holes and stuff. It gives you that perspective like, whoa, I thought I was really special. I thought I was super important. Yeah, I mean, that is one of the things that most psychedelics do is they remove that idea completely. I go, though, this is, you've got to get rid of this, this is tripping you up, you're carrying this fucking weight around everywhere and it's really stopping your progress.

Yeah, and it's kind of like, like you're in a video game and then somebody comes back and be like, hey man, here's the way that, here's the shit you need to actually worry about, you don't need to do all this stuff. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, like a little helper guy in the video game. Yeah, guys, got to come with me. This is the wrong room.

Yeah, they're coming. We got to get out of this room. Don't do that quest. Yeah, that's, that's what it is.

And I mean, I'm a, I'm a hypnosis guy.

I studied all the brainwashing and interrogation kind of stuff. This is the fastest way I think, and I've studied every possible way to change human behavior that, that probably has ever been researched.

“And this is bar none the fastest. And I think the, one of the reasons that it helps people so much, and I don't want to, this is going to turn into a two hour psychedelics discussion, but it's your show.”

I don't dare. Okay. I think it's because perspective shifting is what happens. Like, if you're looking at life and you're, you have this little GoPro as your consciousness and you're looking at this level, it just snatches that thing up and zooms it out and puts it in another location where you're like,

oh my god, I had no idea it was like this. Right. And it seems to be that perspective, just the shift in perspective, seems to be the number one thing that psychedelics produce, it therapeutically. And that's the thing that like cognitive behavioral therapy is, is trying to get done over the course of like 10 or 12 years or, you know, however long it takes. But it's just seems like it does it so fast in a profound way. And the stuff is non-addictive, non-toxic, you're not going to, it's not a street drug.

You're not going to see people out there on the street selling DMT capsules. And DMT, I would say, similar to Ibogaine is not recreational. I think it is. You think DMT is recreational? Yeah.

I think there's a lot of people that recreationally do it. I think that would be your thought, you know, oh, just do this and have fun. And then once you do it, it's no longer recreational. Once it's too profound to be just purely recreational. Yeah.

You've heard of people getting banned? Yes. I have. Jamie and I were just talking about this. Yeah.

I knew a guy who's a tattoo artist who got banned. And you can keep taking DMT, like you can go take 10 hits on a DMT vape pen or something. And you're not going anywhere. Isn't that nuts? It's insane.

It's like they just decide. Yeah. No, no, no. You're doing this for the wrong reasons. Yeah.

I listened to one guy described it. And he's like, it's basically like you're knocking on the door of a nightclub. And like the little thing opens up. It's like now you're not coming in. You got to think like, what are they doing wrong?

Yeah. I think maybe going in with ego seems to be one of the things I see. It's incumbent and people trying just treating it like a little recreational thing. The ego thing is a problem even within psychedelics.

Because there's sort of a carve out that happens, which I always refer to as spiritual narcissism.

There's a bunch of people that do it that somehow another want to be a guru or a leader. And to show you that there's somehow another better because they have had these experiences. They know more and they pretend they know more. They pretend they know more and then they get a whole bunch of people that are very suggestible. And those people sort of listen to them.

And then that's how you start a cult. And there's something to that. There's a specific type of narcissism that occurs from regular psychedelic use when people want to lead groups of people.

“Yeah. And I think if you go into a journey or two with no ego, do you know what you learn?”

Less. Like you're less certain every time. Oh, yeah. About the world. From the moment you get in there, you're like, oh, how does this real?

How is this available 15 seconds away from normal reality? Yes. Yeah. And I definitely think that we're moving forward. If we move forward with psychedelics, our species is going to move forward.

Yeah.

Yeah, agree.

“And I think all the time, what would have happened if that sweeping psychedelics acts, the controlled substance is act of 1970, hadn't been enacted.”

If this stuff had been available to people for the last, you know, 56 years, what would that be like? Yeah, what would the 94 Ford Taurus actually look like? Don't look like a 69 Mustang. Yeah. Because those people that were doing drugs.

Exactly. I mean, there's no, there's no other explanation in my mind. Why cars started looking like shit. And music. Yeah.

What was the change of music? We had some good music. Like the Pesh Mode. Because there's a bunch of people that still did drugs. But there was a giant change between 1950 and 1960 with automobiles, with music, with everything.

And I think a large part of that, if you really being honest, a large part of that is psychedelics. Absolutely. Yeah.

I mean, if you ever go on into a huge mosque and looked up at the ceiling, it's incredible.

It looks like exactly like what you see on all this stuff. Yeah. I'll go no further. Right. But just all the ancient artwork, it's very, so psychedelic and beautiful.

It's like, they got written out of history somehow. And I think there's a difference between drugs and medicine. Mm-hmm. Can we take a paper egg? Sure.

I'm going to take a paper egg. I'm good. I'll hold. I think it's a coffee. Yeah.

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Pull it up, Jamie. Yeah. So we're looking at Jamie pulled up a bunch of photos of inside of masks. And that, that in particular, that is absolutely a DMT experience. So here's the question.

Like, I feel like I've been to that. Right. How about this question? I mean, that looks super DMT. I've spent time there in that mask.

Right. And that dimension. What is that one, Jamie, to the upper left? You just, you scroll up left, upper left, that. Yeah.

What the fuck is that? Is that 3D? Oh, you know what that is, dude? I think that's Alex Grace, please. Is it?

Is it an IRA around? Oh, okay. Oh my God. Well, well, you know what Alex Grace doing? That's great.

The visionary artist. Yeah. So his chapel of sacred mirrors. He has a real church that they built based on his artwork. Wow.

It's incredible. Non-denominational. Yes. It's like a Rothcoat. I don't know.

You know, he's one of those guys. You know what I was talking about with spiritual narcissism running a group. He's the, he's the opposite of that. Yeah. Like, is he's pure?

And his place. Like, this is his artwork. Yeah. But this is his place. And if you look at the outside of it, that's the outside of the place.

That's so cool. So the outside of the place is basically like 3D printed artwork of his that they've constructed into a building. I don't even know how he did it. It must have cost a fuckload of money.

A bunch of people donated.

“But the inside of his, I think that is, so he used to have a place in New York City that was like a gallery.”

That was the chapel of sacred mirrors. So where's that? His donor. That's a lot of painting. He says that is it.

That's on the Hudson. Yeah. And Hudson Valley.

I mean, he's incredible, incredible artist and his ability to capture that experience.

Like that one, if you go, oh, actually scroll down to lower left, right there, the Egyptian looking one, lower left right there. Bam. I've seen that dude. Yeah.

I've 100% seen that. I've seen that too. But go back to the other one that we just looked at. No. That's not the same.

That's the one I've seen. I've literally seen that. Those, and they move and change and morph. Yeah. He's just able to nail it.

I don't know how he does that. He's incredible. Great. One, he's a good artist.

“But two, being able to bring that back with coherence, huh?”

Where you can kind of show someone. Yeah. What it's like.

And I was like in, in the DMT space. I was like, is that me? And right when I said that, the mouth moved. Exactly like my mouth. And I was like, that is me.

Well, you're it and it's you and you're everyone. Yeah. You're everyone and it's everyone. Yeah. The weird thing with the mosques.

If you go back to some of those images, please are the mosques.

The first one that you pulled up the ceiling.

What were they doing? Not that one. The original one that you pulled up. That one. Yeah.

Like that's very, very DMT. So like, what were they doing that they saw this?

“And is that was that a part of their religion at one point in time?”

And has that been forgotten? Like, what is it? Like, why why did that exist? Go back to one of those. It had to.

It had to. That one. This color seems. So. Oh, really?

You think it's AI? Yeah. I just, I've just seen so much as stuff last year. Right.

Could be the rest of them.

Well, go to that website. I mean, the photo just looks a little different stuff. Go to that website where it says 50 mesmerizing mosques. Yeah. If it says where it is, then I told you.

There it is. There it is. That's in Iran. We probably blew that up already. Got it.

I hope not. I hope not, too.

“I mean, didn't Israel blow up a bunch of like ancient Christian places in Lebanon?”

Believe they did. I don't know. I don't know. This is the same place. So that's whatever that place is.

Is that the same place? Yeah. That is a very psychedelic place. Okay. Look at that one.

That's not. What were they doing? Is that three people? It's like a 32 photos.

It's manipulated in a weird way.

Okay. So that's like an fish eye. Right. But either way. Well, just the design themselves are the actual design.

So like, what were they doing that they wanted that to be represented? And is that missing? Because there's a great book called The Sacred Mushroom in the Cross. Yeah. So John Marco Olegro who was an ordained minister.

But he was agnostic. And he was a guy that studied theology and his conclusion after, even being an ordained Minister, his conclusion was that like it's probably not any one religion doesn't have it right. Yeah.

And so he was one of the people that was brought on to decipher the Dead Sea Scrolls. He deciphered it for 14 years. He works on it. And he writes this book called The Sacred Mushroom in the Cross. And where he believes that the entire story of Christianity is connected to the consumption

of psychedelic mushrooms and fertility cults. Yeah. Have you seen like Jamie? Am I allowed to ask Jamie to pull some? Sure.

Yeah. Like one of the original paintings of Jesus was him with a bunch of mushrooms. Right. And yeah. Well, the Adam and Eve, the fresco and France.

So that Adam and Eve fresco, that's painted on this. God, I want to say it's at least a thousand years old. It's painted on this wall in France is Adam and Eve in the Tree of Life. And the Tree of Life is mushrooms. Yeah.

Yeah. It's the Tree of Knowledge. Yes. The fruit of knowledge. Right.

Right. It's not the Tree of Life. It's the fruit of knowledge. But this story of it. Like what is the actual reference to why in the Bible?

I don't want to paraphrase it as to why God told them not to eat from the fruit of that tree. Pulled put that in the proplexity. What did God say to Adam? By the way, everybody blame and Eve. Adam was the only one to talk to God.

We don't even know if Adam told Eve. He might have forgotten to tell her and then blame the whole human race suffering forever. I didn't know that. Yeah. I read that read that over and over again.

I'm like, where does it say that Adam told Eve? It doesn't anywhere. God told Adam he eat from any tree in the garden except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And that if he ate from it, he would surely die.

“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden but you must not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”

For when you eat from it, you will certainly die. Okay. And will that mean? Right. You will die of what you go deaf because if that's what it is,

yeah. And then the weird thing is that the whole connection between the Amanita mascaria and the psychedelic book, or rather the sacred mushroom in the cross book, is that the Amanita mascaria is a red mushroom that looks like an apple. And in fact, the term, like there's confusion as to whether or not the term apple is actually,

is actually demeaning the red thing and that it might not actually be an apple, but it might actually be the original version of it might have been the Amanita.

How many different people have translated it?

“How many different people have passed on the story?”

Like what was the source? What was the original story? And why delete it? Right. How does this get deleted so, like, pervasively? Oh, yeah, around the whole world.

Have you heard the Christmas traditions as well? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, it causes a mushroom. Oh, my gosh.

And it's the same mushroom, the Amanita mascaria. The weird thing about the Amanita mascaria is it doesn't, like, not a lot of people have had psychedelic experiences on it. It's very weird mushroom. You think it evolved maybe over time or?

Very well could have. McKenna had some thoughts on it. They said that it could be seasonal. It could be location. It could be like where it is. It could be genetic variations.

It could be there could be a bunch of different factors. And if you consume it by way of reindeer piss. Right. Well, not only that, people drink their piss when they consume it.

And it gives them, like, the second dose, the second burst.

So apparently the psychedelic compounds come through the urine. And if you drink it, you just get a full straight blast. Yeah. And reindeer have been known to, like, knock shamans out of the way to drink their their piss.

“Because the reindeer are addicted to this mushroom, which is why they fly”

in the Santa Claus story. Yeah. And I heard the story. The shamans would go around pulled by dogslets or something. Mm-hmm.

And the snow was so high that they would drop the stuff down the chimney. Right. To those people. And it was fresh mushrooms or fresh Amanita or something. And in order to dry it out, you'd have to hang it by the fire.

Right. And you hang it over the trees, too, that people would put it on trees. Yeah. That's where the decorating the Christmas tree is. Also, those mushrooms, the Amanita-Miscarasso, micro-risal relationship

with coniferous trees. I don't know this. Yeah. So that's where they grow.

They grow underneath the trees, just like the brightly packaged presence

that are underneath the trees on Christmas. This story is. It's a crazy story. It's like what did we forget? Yeah.

How much did we forget? What's been revised? Right. We'll just think about what we're just talking about inside of our generation. So the 1970 Control Substance is Act.

Now, that's a government that's restricting its citizens and trying to control its citizens. And one of the ways it does it is limit their psychedelic experiences. Yeah. That's not the only time that's happened. Right.

That's the Elisinean Mysteries. That's from Brian Murray-Ruscus Book. The immortality key. This is what they did back then. They banned these rituals.

Why? Because it's very difficult to control people when you realize that we're all one. Yeah. You know, it's almost impossible. It doesn't work.

They don't want to listen. You don't want to do it. You know, you start getting your lawmakers and your military people start doing it. Well, then wars becomes impossible. Absolutely impossible.

That's that point. That's me. I'm hurting myself. Right. Doing all.

Exactly. Yeah. And it's insane. It is insane. I wish there was like on a Google Doc how you can look at revision history.

I wish there was something like that for our race or species. Right. Right. Just so much has been changed and modified and we have historians. They're studying something that's been permitted and something that's been officially released.

This is more certainty. It's just more certainty. Oh, that reindeer story. That's bullshit. Because I got this book from.

Yeah, they don't know. It's bullshit. Licked and Stein or whatever. From this story. It's plea to authority that you have the answers.

Bitch, you don't have the answers. Yeah. You definitely don't. You can't. It's not possible.

You can't have those answers. Yeah. And we're we're in an age where this is proving to help with so many other things. And it's not just depression, but it's like Alzheimer's dementia Parkinson's myestide agrobus. Multiple sclerosis.

Autism. It's helping with. Yeah. Would you see that woman that had dementia that took five grams of mushrooms and slept for like 19 hours and woke up and then she could talk?

No. You didn't see that story? No. It was a recent story. There was a woman.

She was nonverbal. She couldn't communicate. She couldn't dress herself. Couldn't walk. Couldn't do anything.

Took five grams of mushrooms. slept for 19 hours. Came back. Started communicating. Look at people in the eye.

Was able to change herself. Was able to walk around. How beautiful. Crazy. Yeah.

“And then would subsequent doses or condition improved even more?”

Yeah. And you had. I think it was Paul Stametson. And he helped his mother through cancer, I think. I think stage three cancer with Turkey tail or something.

I can't remember what it was.

There's a bunch of mushrooms that help with cognitive function.

“You know, lion's main is fames for that.”

Yeah. There's. There's some weird relationship that we have with fungus. And one of the interesting things about fungus. We think of it as like a plant.

But it's not. It breeds air. Breeze air like people do. It's a weird thing. And it also can survive in a vacuum.

It can survive in the vacuum of space. Yeah. Which is the pansepermia notion. Yeah. Mushroom spores.

Where it came here riding on an asteroid. Slammed it at the earth.

And it might be one of the reasons why we're people in the first place.

That's McKenna's idea. Yeah. Yeah. They are fused by Zoma. It's Da.

Now it's Taistus. It's with Jubil and so on. Click on the banner. And with Reve bonus. The fourth program of Reve App.

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So let's have a fan bonus in the Reve App. Just at the 18th and 17th. How we like separated from our ancestral... Like crow magnum. Yeah.

Roots. Yeah. I mean, this whole idea that people were created by aliens. Yeah, maybe. Maybe those aliens are mushrooms.

Or maybe mushrooms is the way the aliens created people. Yeah. It might be just how you add a little bit of fertilizer to made a plan to make them awesome. Yeah. And it's just every generation.

Like this generation says, "Oh, we're in this computer simulation." Right now. But during the Industrial Revolution, the universe was a machine. Right. We started doing electricity and the universe was energy and vibration.

Yeah. And now we invent computers and all of a sudden the universe is a computer. It's just every iteration. So I tend to think that any theory that assumes humans are super special. I'm a little skeptical.

Yeah. Because it assumes that these ancient like way up high beings have like a MacBook that they're trying to run this shit. Right. And they're like, "Well, the hard drive would need to be the size of the solar system." Like just assuming that they have the same shit that we do.

Right. It's unbelievable. Yeah. That's a funny comparison. These think the universe was a machine.

It's apt. So dead on.

It's, uh, we always want to try to figure it out.

I think it's way more complicated.

“And I think the more we figure it out, the more we realize it's way more complicated.”

And it is all connected. Like people are super special. We really are. But so is everything else. Exactly.

Everything's super special. Yeah. This is all. And everything is weirdly connected. Yeah.

And even if you look at regular ass science, just basic ass science. And you look at an Alan Watts quote of like, "We are the universe experiencing itself." That's just regular science. If we are the big bang, then we are the universe and we are experiencing it itself. Yeah.

And you don't need to do any stretches of imagination for that to be true. And Roger Penrose doesn't even think the big bang is the start of the universe. He thinks it's a series of big bangs. Oh, really? Yeah.

I think it's like it's never ending cycle.

Did you have him one? Yeah, long time ago. Wow. He here we have Roger Penrose on. Isn't it syrup in Rose now?

Yes. And he gets syrup. Nighted. I'm American though. Yeah.

I tend to shy away from those syrup. Foolish night. I mean, that's another thing. Oh, he's a night. That's a king.

Oh. You know, did I? I don't know if we talked about that last time.

“Have I told you, like, I figured out a way to edit memory?”

No. Like you can do it with hypnosis. So I know that you can introduce false memories into people's heads. Yeah. And I know that people create their own false memories.

Yeah. So you found a way to do that different than that? Yes. And I make videos similar to this on my YouTube channel. But I wanted to walk you through this process because I think you would love it.

Okay. So if I want somebody to be able to edit a memory, I need to make them good at that skill first. So we already edit memories. Every time we touch a memory like by thinking back to my wedding right now,

I'll edit something and I'll do it unknowingly. Right. So our brain is already an expert at making these changes. And then like before I stop thinking about that wedding, my brain automatically clicks file save.

Right. And then so the next time I look back on it, the memory is going to be there, but I won't see it as an edit. I'll just see it as that's the memory.

Does that make sense? Yes. Okay.

So first we need to get them to start doing some of that stuff consciously.

So if you take somebody back to, let's say a childhood bedroom when they're seven. Okay. And you do it very vividly with hypnosis. So like you're going in their file cabinet.

You let them explore the bedroom, the details, all this kind of stuff. You make it extremely vivid and coherent. And then you have them pick up like a pencil, a really sharp brand new pencil. Maybe from their pencil box from school or something.

And they go over by the light switch in the bedroom and just make one dot on a wall. And I figured this out talking to game developers. And I was talking to game developers about how people figure out ways to exit the map

“to exit the playable area of the game because it kind of feels like that's what psychedelics do.”

There's like, let's just kind of exit this little playable map temporarily. So one of these game developers said, "Oh, you just, if you can get somebody to modify one pixel,

then they can modify the entire map."

So if one pixel is glitching, then we can glitch all kinds of stuff. So I thought maybe we can do that in humans. So I've done this hundreds of times. So you just make a mark on the wall with a pencil. And then you kind of fast forward their life.

So like you bring them to, like, say there were six. Now we're going to bring them back into the room when they're eight. The bed sheets are different. Maybe the wall color change, something like that. But the one thing they can do is walk over there to the light switch

and see that that tiny little dot is still there. So something, and now you're starting to see that there's permanence through time. It makes sense a lot. So if we can get them to do that like 50 times, tiny change. You're doing it through hypnosis?

Yeah. Okay.

“I mean hypnosis is such a loaded crazy word.”

They're relaxed. They feel safe. And their brain is in theta brain wave state most of the time, which is around seven Hertz. Yeah, I've been hypnotized.

And I thought it was going to be like, I didn't know what was going on. I was in another world. I don't know. It's a very odd state of mind.

Yeah. It's kind of like guided meditation. But you feel very conscious. It's not. Yes.

And I remembered it. It wasn't. Yeah. Didn't wake up my pants off. It was pretty normal.

Yeah. It's a pretty common mentoring and candidate. As far as you know. As far as you know. Right.

So if you can do this 15, 20, 30 times of one pixel at a time and show that it's permanent through time, then you can go back to other events. And instead of editing the memory itself, you teach them how to shift perspective.

So now you take them through 30 more events really quick. A true events, a birthday party, a dinner, adult life, children, doesn't matter. And now like let's say I'm at a dinner party. Can I jump from one body to another and experience the event

through that lens? So first we make them an expert at editing memory and seeing permanence in time. Second is perspective shifting in real memory. So I can jump across the table.

I can be at my own wedding and maybe be somebody in the front row and like just shift their perspective in memory. The final layer is exactly what psychedelics do. So the final layer is go back to the event when you got kicked in the nuts and everybody laughed at you in elementary school or whatever.

And you can reprocess that memory in a very short amount of time as an adult with the perspective of an adult. So meaning like so if you had a traumatic event in high school with somebody beat you up in front of everybody and everybody mocked you and it just like destroyed your ear and destroyed your confidence.

You can go back and shift this person's experience.

Yeah and instead of modify the memory like no that never happened.

The memory stays the perspective changes. So now you show permanence over time. So that has downstream effects for all kinds of stuff later in life. So this is when I script got written of I've got to be tough. I've got to be loud or somebody's going to hurt me.

Like one of these little childhood scripts. So you get the downstream effects so you can go in there. And there's probably probably edit memories. I've always been nervous to modify stuff that's way more than a pixel or something insignificant.

But the memory stays the same, the perspective is what changes. And you can show that it's got a demonstrable effect downstream of that. Their whole life can be different after that day. And it's just like a mushroom, it's exactly what psychedelics do. This is massive perspective shift on memory.

“And so is this something that you're actively doing?”

With clients I'll do this on occasion. But now is anybody else doing it? Maybe there's probably a few people doing it. And is there any like times where you guys get together and discuss techniques and what's effective and what's not effective and should be?

Right, because it seems like this is kind of a big deal.

And it seems like someone could fuck it up. Like it has the potential for delusional perspective shifting. Yeah. I mean, you've got to be responsible about it.

“But nowadays I think that psychedelics can achieve a lot of that without having to go through some like I need you to go back to the original event.”

And like having me vocally take you back there using this archaic stupid ass language. That can't even describe a psychedelic experience with this language. Right. This is what I was doing mostly before psychedelics. Then you know how I got into psychedelics was the spirit molecule movie that you did the voice over for it.

And that was what kind of introduced me to the entire the field of everything where I thought wow this. It just doesn't seem like a recreational drug. And that was the big shift was watching that documentary for me. Yeah, my big shift was reading Rick Straussman's book. I still haven't read it.

I need to. Yeah.

He was the first guy to get FDA approval to do psychedelic studies.

And the way he did it was very clever. He did it to prove that these are damaging and dangerous. That's how he framed it. That's so brilliant. He's a very smart guy.

I mean, you're talking about a guy who taught himself ancient Hebrew. Oh, wow. Yeah, over 16 years taught himself to read and speak ancient Hebrew. So that he could really read the Bible on its original form. Wow.

Yeah. He's fascinated by prophecy and ancient religious stories. And, you know, he like a lot of people that have had DMT experiences. You, once you do, you look at those old stories and you go, okay, what? What are these stories really?

What was the original, what was the original event? Like, it's so hard when you're like Moses in the burning bush. Well, there's scholars in Israel that think that burning bush was the acacia tree. That the acacia tree is rich in DMT. And that might be what it represents.

This experience of meeting God through a burning bush is he smoked DMT. Yeah. Which, for anybody who's done DMT, they go, "Oh, that makes sense." Yeah. I mean, these scholars, I don't think these scholars are pre-exotic.

They're psychedelic heads.

“I think they're just religious scholars in trying to figure out, like, what was the origin of that story?”

Yeah.

I've never heard of that.

The acacia. Yeah. Well, acacia tree, very rich in DMT, but a flair, grass, very rich in DMT. But Moses, yeah. And for people that don't know, the reason why, well, DMT exists in probably thousands of different plants.

But you can eat those plants and not experience DMT because of monoamine oxidase. So, mono, MEO is what your gut makes to break this stuff down, so it doesn't become psychoactive. But when you take an MEO inhibitor and the psychedelic, then you get ayahuasca. That's what ayahuasca is. That's why it's an orally active version of DMT.

Yeah. Which methylene blue is in MEO. Oh, interesting. It's a pretty light. It's a pretty light form of it.

But if you're on methylene blue and you do psychedelics, it's going to deepen. How could imagine? A lot of people are very hesitant about methylene blue. They don't like the idea of it. They think it's very dangerous or potentially dangerous that we don't know enough about it.

We've been researching since 1890, something. And it's in every emergency room.

“Have you ever heard of anybody having bad experiences with methylene blue or side effects?”

There are some contraindications. So, people that are on a high dose SSRIs. Okay. And if you're taking an MEO, you can't eat aged cheese and wine because of this chemical called tyrosine. It's in there.

Oh, aged cheese. Yeah. So, something about the fungus? No, it's mold. Yeah. Maybe there's red wine and aged cheese both have tyrosine.

Which when you mix tyrosine with an MEO like, it can cause a high-protence of crisis. Oh. So, like a super blood pressure. Oh. But I haven't heard anybody having them a bad time with it.

But you've got to stick to the right dose. Obviously, you've got to talk to a doctor about it. Well, let's ask AI. Put that into the AI. Put that into proplexity. See, what is the negative consequences of taking methylene blue?

Maybe there's something that we don't know. He bleeds a little bit hesitant about it. You know. Yeah. And I've talked to other people that say it seems like for a certain metabolic condition.

It's very beneficial. But for people that have a normal metabolic, like your whole system is working fine and perfect. It might not just not be necessary, but might cause harm.

I don't think it's for everybody. It may not be for everybody.

It saves my life for sure. I mean, I could stop taking it today and I'll have a seizure within 48 hours. That's wild. Yeah.

“You said you had a seizure at last time after you visited here?”

The night before I came on the show. Wow. Okay. Methylene blue. This is our AI sponsor perplexity. Methylene blue can cause a range of side effects from mild nuisance symptoms to rare, but life-threatening reactions, especially at higher doses or when combined with certain medications.

Common short-term side effects headaches, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Nothing. Don't be a pussy. Yeah. My sorelets are actually stained. Who we have from the peat?

Yeah. Yeah. It does make your pee blue. Sweating, feeling hot or cold, muscle twitches, harmless, blue-green discoloration of urine. Sometimes stool or skin, serious risk. Serotonin syndrome.

When combined with antidepressants, just like you were just saying,

or other serotonogenic drugs, SSRIs, S-N-RIs, M-A-O-I-S. Some opioids, St. John's wart. G-6-P-D is a big contraindication there. So Methylene blues and ERs because of meth hemoglobinemia, which is like when you, your hemoglobin can't bind to oxygen really well.

And it's also right there. They only cure for cyanide poisoning. Is Methylene blue. Really? Yeah.

It's cyanide. It will stop cyanide in its tracks. Whoa. It probably says that on ER. Oh, interesting.

Safety for chronic low dose experimenting for anti-aging or cognition is not well established and is currently recommended without medical supervision. I know a lot of people that take it. I know a lot of people that take it. I know a lot of people that take it.

There's Bobby. Bobby takes it. Uh-huh. He's one of them. A lot of people that take it that say it improves cognitive function.

It's supposed to also, when you take it with red light therapy, it's supposed to greatly increase the offensively. So yeah. Really?

“I mean, number, if you want to go into it for just a minute here.”

Sure. Methylene blue has what's called a neuronal affinity. So they used it. Like you stick it on a microscope, slide with a brain cell. It sucks into the neuron, uh, like automatically.

And it does the same thing in your body. So if I know that I'm, I'm basically dying all of my neurons blue. And I'm not just talking about in your head. Like we have neurons everywhere. Our whole body.

So if I'm dying a lot of my neurons blue and I see something that's blue. Methylene blue is blue because it reflects blue light, which also means that it absorbs almost all red. Uh-huh. So if my neurons are died blue and then I go into a near infrared and infrared light,

uh, I know that I'm getting way more absorption in there. That's fucking go. And that makes sense. In the third stage of cellular breathing, uh, we produce this chemical called cytochromcy oxidase and cytochrome is,

like cell color, cytochroma, where our cells can start running,

essentially running on photons, which is beautiful and amazing.

And if you get a good red light system, um, and I have no plug.

“Um, but you get a good red light system.”

It'll penetrate through the skull, up to like four inches through your skull. In good systems. Whoa. Even lasers. They make laser beds and all this other stuff. Yeah, I have one of those red light bed.

Those looks like a tanning bed. I bought it up from Gary Brackett's company. It's very expensive, but it's pretty profound. Um, I don't need, uh, reading glasses anymore. I used to have these fucking things everywhere.

All over my house. I used to need them reading my phone. But I wanted to read an email. I don't need them anymore. Wow.

Yeah. It's nuts. You know, I don't bring them with me anymore. If I would go on the road before, and I had to do a trip for the UFC or whatever, and I didn't know I reading glasses like fuck.

Now I'm going to make everything big. I can't read anything. Not anymore. No, my vision got better from red light therapy. I don't doubt it. For sure.

I also don't close my eyes. I keep my eyes wide open. It's like, oh, you need goggles. You like your fucking staring at the, um, you know, some nuclear bomb or something.

Yeah. No. So it doesn't seem to bother my vision at all. Yeah. And I've heard so many doctors.

And obviously none of this is advice for anybody. I've heard so many doctors say throw the safety goggles in the trash. Look right into it. If you want to. It's going to help you rise.

There's so many stories of people with macular digeneration in glaucoma and eye conditions and stuff. It's gotten multitude better than it was. Obviously my story is anecdotal, but my vision was shifting.

I was using three, those three power ones.

“You know, those cheap, these cheap by mouth Amazon.”

But I used three. And I started with one, like one power. And then it got to two power. And then I'll get that through. I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm fucking going blind.

I can't see shit. Yeah. I don't need any anymore. Now, my vision's not perfect. It's not 2020.

It's not what it used to be. So what I read things, it's like maybe slightly blurry. And if I put reading glasses on, it'll look a little better. But I don't need them anymore. And it keeps getting better.

I also take lutein and a bunch of different supplements. I take this no affiliation. I don't work with them or anything. But it's called pure encapsulations. Macular support.

They have a supplement for it. I take those. I've been taking those steadily at the same time. I've been doing the red light therapy. And it works.

At least it works for me.

“You know, it worked for Whitney Cummings.”

I didn't think of her. Her vision got way better. She's very diligent about it. She does it every day. There's something there.

Yeah. Something there. Well, there's for sure something about staring at a fucking phone all day. It's really bad for your eyes. Yeah.

Staring at a phone, staring at a tablet, staring at a laptop, staring at a computer screen. It's not good for your eyes. Period. There's no way. There's no way.

When I look at my phone in bed at night, if I do, it hurts my eyes. Yeah. It was dark in the room, and I'm like, let me check my email real quick. I get to my email. It's like, it's bright.

If I go to a website that's like a white website, I say, "Ah, it hurts." Yeah. There's no need for it.

“Before I go out to the white website, I go home on the Dragon and Wake It.”

One of the only two euros in the night. Streaming, but not so, wow. But fast Alice Automatic.

Finally, I feel like I'm so enchantment.

Hold it and get to go. Teeth and enchantment with Viso Stoyer. Did you know you can change your iPhone? Like if you go into accessibility, it's like color overlay. I forget the name of it.

Where you can make the whole screen red. I have seen people do that. I have not done that. I've tried to do it on mine. It's tough.

But I did it on our two-year-olds iPad. And nothing is addictive anymore. Like she won't sit there and stare at it for more than three or four minutes anymore. Whoa. Yeah.

And it's just like I didn't buy some special device or anything. You just go into accessibility and make it red. And it used to be that she would just sit there and hold the iPad. Yeah. I'm an anti-electronics guy.

So I wanted to try this experiment. And the moment I turned it red, she didn't complain about the red. She got used to it within 15 minutes.

And never complained again. Her iPad has never gone off of the red mode.

And she doesn't get hooked into shows anymore. Whoa. So watch it for a few minutes and I'm like, okay, that's great. Put it down and then go, she'll go play. Wow.

So it's worth an experiment. Anyway, it's got little small kids out there. Or do it to yourself. It's amazing that they provide you with a tool to escape the addiction that they've created. It's tough to true, man.

Because it's a pretty intense addiction. I think they feel like good luck. You never get an off this hook. The hook is sunk in deep and the barbe is strong. Big time.

It's so strong. And it's the production tool of reality right now. If I want to alter reality, I've just got to engineer how you see it. And that's the way that we see realities. What's on my phone?

Yeah. And that's the problem that a lot of people have with tech companies. It's that you're giving these people that aren't particularly wise. They might be intelligent. They figured out how to code these things and make these things and market these things.

But it's not like their monks. They're not these profound visionaries that are much more educated and lightened in the general population. Right. No. A lot of them have autism.

No empathy. They're out of their fucking minds. And they're optimizing the software continually to get people to engage with it. They want you to. I mean, that's that's the EBITDA.

That's the bottom line revenue comes from ads.

And how many ads can I show you? Mm-hmm. If I know if I know your data, much data of yours can I sell?

It's nuts.

“Which is why, like, I think it's so important for people to be literate, extremely literate.”

And what's going on with your phone?

What's going on with your phone? What's going on with your brain and science? The shit that we see coming out of the news right now. And I'm the guy that trains science. In two days after I leave here, I'm going to Fort Bragg to train the United States Army

Science Division. I'm the guy. What do you train them in? I love to say. In science.

I'm just training them how they work and how to do it. Yeah. I'm the body language like people reading guy. I don't know if you ever seen our YouTube channel, The Behavior Panel. Yes.

You got a great YouTube channel. It's awesome. Really good. And I have another one with three other behavior profiles. Where we break down videos of people in interrogation and stuff like that.

And I think it's so important to be literate in a lot of this stuff.

And how does our brain work? How can I be compromised? And so I created a tool.

“And I gave it a Jamie before we started the show.”

That will give you a one to one hundred score on how likely something is a science. And is it an app or is it like on which the CDF? Okay. And you can run anything through it. And you can run it historically and see what's a science and what's not.

And it's kind of subjective. But at least you get a standardized score for everything. And you can see like if you went to like the invading Iraq initially. Okay. That's a good one.

That was score a 98 out of 100 for for a science. Yeah. Just on this tool here. So like it kind of goes in layers. So step one is like this pre-ignition.

Like I have societal stuff going on. There's moral panic.

Then operational are their drills happening that are kind of similar to this.

Military ramping up. The regulatory obviously that's pretty there. Like bills getting passed it to in the morning. Right. Five thousand bills.

Yeah. So like people suddenly aligning different news agencies. And then authorities, celebrities are starting to come out with the same messaging and stuff like that. And then media. Like just kind of flooding little slogans and stuff.

So if that kind of scores kind of high. And you don't even need the numbers right now. They'll remove to the next one. So has this happen before the precursor anomalies. Like have they done this before?

Well matter of fact. They gave people LSD against their will at him. And then they gave the whole chart. You know whatever. Like is there some precursor.

Right. And then identical phrasing across unrelated outlets. So we see something on MSNBC and Fox saying the same kind of phrasing or something. That's kind of suspicious. And then introduced villains that are pre-packaged.

Pretty obvious. Injecting symbolism. And then the manufacturer agency. Like if this bill isn't passed in the next 72 hours. We're going to face a national crisis.

And go down the walkway. And it'll give you a predictive score of how likely something is a sign up. And one of the biggest things is if you don't want to like. This is a lot of crap to like to memorize.

“But are you seeing authority figures resonate with each other?”

And are is nuance not being presented to you. And that's like if I'm not seeing nuance. If I have a left versus right issue. And there's a prepackaged villain. That's a sign up.

If you just look at those couple of things. And nowadays we have a death of nuance. Or no one's getting presented any nuance to anything. It's either you're on this side. You're wearing this jersey or this jersey.

Which is really toxic to our whole entire country. The whole world. And it's accentuated by clips and these weird little things. Yeah. And if you're on the lookout nuance.

Let's say I'm on the left. When I log into social media, whatever it is. They're going to show me the dumbest shithead morons on the other side that they could possibly find. Yep. And the same thing if I'm on the right.

They're going to show me the biggest idiots. And the only goal is being like. Me thinking oh my god these people are insane. And it's me thinking that's all of them. Right.

But like if you go to target right now and see somebody that voted differently than you. You want the same shit. You want your kids to be healthy. You want safety. You want to pay less taxes.

You want the government less and less involved in your life. And they're not all insane. But the goal is to make you think all of the other side is insane. Right. That's the ultimate sign.

So then at the end, you kind of get a one to 100 score. And I started a I bought a TV station. Did I tell you about this? No. I was going to text or I was going to send you an email about this.

I bought a TV station. We started our own daily news show. Where we run the days events all the way through the science index every single day. And we show here's how you're being presented.

Here's where nuance has been taken out. Every single thing that's like truly going on. Here's the bill that got passed that nobody's talking about that has a lot to do with this. Here's the they're saying the straight of hormones is going to open.

But here's what Brent crude is predicting oil prices at.

So the insurance markets has a lot more info than than the news is going to give you. So like try to give you every single day. Here's how you're being made to feel. Here's the actual news. Here's what they're going to left is going to say here's the rights going to say.

And here's where they're killing nuance. Here's where you're being presented a binary choice.

“And I think I'm trying to like I want to make science irrelevant.”

And what we have to do, what are the steps we have to take to not really inoculate people from science. But just to make them so fucking visible that it's just obvious. And yeah, they're going to have to invent something else and they will. But at least for a few years, people are really wise to everything like this is very obvious. Because like all the things that were up on that sheet right there.

If you look at that a few times, it starts to become irrelevant. And like my goal is to make people more expensive to influence. Hmm. I think it's possible. I think it just gets out there.

The more people are aware and just can piece it together. And the more that narrative starts getting pushed. People start repeating it. Yeah. Let's pay attention.

When you say you bought a TV channel or a TV station, what do you mean? Like an actual station. A physical station with a news desk in. Where does it air? Uh, it's on YouTube right now.

So where did you buy this place? Where was it just like 10 minutes from?

“So was a former TV station that was like going out of business?”

Yeah. We retrofitted everything. Oh, wow. But it's probably a fire sale on TV stations right now. Yeah.

We got a good deal. No, what is a legend TV? And that's great. Yeah, we retrofitted it and like qualities. Up there with like Fox or anybody else.

Like we have a daily show. What's the daily show on YouTube called? Station one. Station one. Yeah.

That was a pleasure. That wasn't taken. It's a new channel. Yeah. Perfect.

We have like most of the subscribers where my mom, I think, for the first month.

We're growing now. So you just started it off and no fanfare. Just try to get the feet on the ground and turn it off. And it's, you know, I do it with my YouTube channel, which I've got two million. Something subscribers on YouTube.

And it's cool that I can make these documentaries. But you know on YouTube, like you can't change it up on people. Like there's the algorithm punishes when you change things. So we had to start a new channel. Like you had to say.

Like you guys started JRE clips. Because you can't like back in the day. The algorithm said you can't do short form in the long form stuff. And the algorithm kind of punishes you for that. So you had to make a new channel for it.

Probably what Jamie did or the team did. I don't remember what the initial reason was.

“I think we decided it would be good just to have a second channel as well anyway.”

Just in case because it was always the threat that YouTube is going to remove us.

Okay. Which I do think that if it wasn't for Spotify and it wasn't for the fact that I was primarily on Spotify. I probably would have been removed during the whole COVID thing. Oh my god. Because we were regularly questioning a bunch of different things that could have got you removed.

We were regularly questioning the COVID lab leak. We were regularly questioning whether or not there was any danger to taking these vaccines. Regular regularly questioning alternative medical care. Yeah. And that was maybe the the biggest sign up of our lifetimes.

For sure. And now now confirmed that woke up normal people that woke up average people. Oh yeah. Because it was so obvious woke up a lot. Some of them like they just can't shake. I'm they're on 15 ambience fucking.

Yeah. They're just they're going to stay. I've got family members that are very trustful of government. And they're like no chase if if it was going to go bad or if it was this thing they would tell us. And I was like these are the people who gave you the food pyramid.

I told you to eat 16 loaves of bread every day. And yeah. It's the idea that the government is here to help you. It's like that's the dumbest. That was Reagan's best life.

Yeah. That they're the five. Yeah. Where the government and we're here to help. Yeah.

Yeah. That's um. It's interesting how people will believe in the government if it is convenient. But then if the other people are the government. And it's 100% negative.

Yeah. So people are so ideologically captured. And that's why people are completely unwilling to look at anything positive.

Exactly. Which is what I found really fascinating about the response to the Trump thing. You know that Trump passing this psychedelic initiative and trying to push through the main and the psilocybin and all these different methods that people have used to overcome addiction, treat all these different things that we talked about before.

They didn't know what to do with that. That was a weird one because they tried to find all sorts of negatives. I saw people trying to find negatives because it's him. Yeah. Which is so crazy.

And there was also negatives because it was pushed by me. And the other one was Joe Rogan, helping mental health policy in America. That's not real. You're the green guy who takes horse pace though. Yeah.

And a dragon believer. Yeah. It's an interesting time to be alive. You know, really is. So emotionally for you.

“If I think if I saw myself edited like that on CNN or something, I feel like that would wreck me.”

I feel like that would emotionally make me feel like shit for such a long time. Were you just like over it?

Oh, it didn't make me feel like shit for a second.

I started laughing. I thought it was hilarious. Okay. I was also very aware that they weren't aware that my show was way bigger than them. See, the thing about mainstream media is that mainstream media had ruled for so long that

they had gotten delusional. They had been like a champion that didn't think that he had a train anymore. And then some new contender came along that had been in the mountains of fucking Siberia. Yeah. I mean, someone came out of the blue and just fucked them up.

And they were, they're so bad at this thing that they think they run. And they're also very, they're very unaware of the actual playing field. So the actual playing field that they exist in is so limited that they cannot ever achieve the kind of acceptance or interaction or trust that alternative media can. Yeah.

So there's too many people involved. Too many people will most certainly move things and water things down too. Like what you were talking about before.

“Like, here's what I want people to think I believe, right?”

Yeah. Which is most of what mainstream media produces.

It's here's what I want people to think I believe.

If you don't believe any of those people reading that teleprompter because none of it seems sincere. Yeah. Your mind registers. This is a person reading something that's been written.

It doesn't register. And then when you see them talking free form like on those panel shows on CNN, you're like, oh, you guys are fucking retarded. You guys in some of the dumbest opinions. You're so uninformed.

You're so ideologically captured. This is so not compelling. They've turned CNN into a fucking group podcast. That's a lot of the shows on CNN are bad podcasts with like shitty guests who, you know, they're no nuance and they're yelling over each other.

Exactly. It's a terrible form. No nuance whatsoever. It's also the problem they have to break for commercials. There we go.

And then there's a problem that's the funding for those commercials. A giant chunk of it is pharmaceutical drug companies. Huge. Yeah. And as Mike Bens and Cali Means and a lot of people have talked about, they don't do that

because they want to sell drugs. They do that because now the news will not criticize the pharmaceutical drug company. Because the pharmaceutical drug companies responsible for enormous part of their income. Yeah. And I mean, I wouldn't say definitively that that's happening.

But I mean, if you're the CEO of the president, you know exactly where the money's coming from. A hundred percent.

“And if you get a phone call that says, hey, you know what?”

Maybe not mention that. Yeah. Or maybe a tax someone who's got a narrative. Exactly. And turn them green and do all that upset.

But like I said, for me, it was making me laugh. I thought it was funny. I thought it was funny. It was like, this is such a classic mistake. Like you, you guys are completely out of touch.

Yeah. Just delusional. Not understanding the backlash of that of just doing open like in your face. Like there was no like, hey, look over here. Right.

It was just in your face. Not just that.

They're also, you're making a green version of a video that exists on Instagram first.

So it's already out there. You don't think the internet is going to see that there's a difference in my skin tone on CNN. Then on Instagram. On Instagram, I look rosy and healthy. I wasn't lying.

I was making a video. I was talking if I was really sick. I was outside. How's that outside? How's that?

I was like, I feel good. I felt shitty for a day. I was being completely honest. I know what did I ever think that it was going to be controversial to talk about.

So I've been acting was not a controversial substance before.

I talked about it in that one video. Yeah. It was normal. You could get it at a pharmacy. Your doctor could prescribe it to you.

Mine did.

“But he also prescribed me a ton of other stuff.”

Exactly. Yeah. It's so much other stuff. Like Finn Bend is old. That's now getting into the same category as I ever met him was.

And Mel Gibson talked about it here with you. Yes. That combo. And there's a study now that shows. I think it's from 2022.

That it's a cancer treatment. Like a new cancer treatment. Right. What the hell? I know.

It's not patented. So it's a demon. It's a demon.

And these news stations are all complicit.

They're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. They're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. They're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies.

And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies.

And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies.

And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies.

And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies.

And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies.

And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies.

And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies.

And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies. And if you go back, there's way more than one time. This has happened in Operation Mockingbird, Walter Cronkite.

It was a CIA asset. Yeah. Legit CIA. So is Anderson Cooper? Is he?

Anderson Cooper worked for the CIA when he was in college. I don't know that. Yeah. Looked that up. Make sure that's true.

I'm 99% true. 99% sure, rather. Julia Childs. Boy. Did you know she was here?

She was a movie, movie, movie, movie, movie. She was in the CIA. Teaching people how to bake.

“I think she did the hand-to-hand combat course.”

Fuck people up at a rolling pin. Does the Anderson Cooper think correct? I believe he worked for the CIA in college. Anderson Cooper interned the CIA for two consecutive summers, while he was a political science major at Yale University.

He did not pursue a career in intelligence, wink, wink, wink. After graduating, later describing the agency's desk work at Langley as less James Bond that I hoped it would be. Yeah. Well, I think it's all less James Bond.

It's more money. It's more money and influence. And what do the people in power? Yeah. People to believe.

But he's not the only one. Walter Kronkeye. There were hundreds. There. Hundreds.

Yeah. So much. It was every network. And there's no direct.

There's no declassified document that says here's what we told them to say.

Here's how compromised they were. But they were compromised completely. And most likely told exactly what to say or what stories to suppress. Does Mike Wallace have some sort of a connection? I don't know.

See if Mike Wallace had some sort of a connection with the CIA. But it's a bunch of prominent, respected, trusted news anchors. Yes. Yeah. All over the place.

Yeah. This is through the 50s, 60s.

“I think in the beginning of the 70s until this thing called the.”

Mike Wallace's famous for his probing investigative reporting on CBS's 60 minutes regarding the CIA. Most notably in landmark 1993 report called titled the CIA's cocaine. Exposed. So he's the opposite. So he worked to expose CIA stuff.

The report exposed to covert CIA anti drug operation in Venezuela that allowed hundreds of millions of dollars in cocaine to be smuggling. Okay, this is our encounter affair. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so it's opposite.

But with so many things, like somebody's like, oh, I can't believe COVID's doing this. Look at history again. Like, we dosed millions of people with LSD against their consent against their millions. I think, well, there were experiments with aerosol forms of LSD that were in cities.

Yeah. I didn't know about that, Jamie. Aerosol LSD in cities. Somewhere near, like, Vermont or Boston. Somewhere up in, like, the New England area.

Dude, look at a bicycle.

“Do you have to be to, like, get a crop to us or play and fill up a tag of LSD and just spray it on kids?”

I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't get it. And then you go back to when we, we dosed, I don't know. I don't know how many African Americans with syphilis or we, like, grouped them together. They had syphilis and didn't treat them and gave fake treatments and stuff.

U.S. government has never openly sprayed LSD from their air over entire cities.

However, during the Cold War, intelligence agencies in the military did conduct covert aerosol and mine control experiments on the public. What does that mean? That means you did it. Yeah, not from a plane, though, most likely.

They were like, probably out of fan and a bucket. (laughs) C.I.A. is notorious project MKUltra sought to weaponize LSD and use it for mine control. C.I. operators are sent to San Francisco to spray the air with LSD 25 at an unwitting party of guests. Oh, I did hear about this.

The result, the agency ultimately abandoned the specific aerosol tests at the last minute because the summer weather was too hot to keep the windows closed and their specialized aerosol device malfunctioned. There we go. Number two, the Army sprayed thousands of unsuspecting Americans with aerosolized chemicals.

Yeah, military released a fine powder called zinc cadmium sulfide over 33 rural and suburban urban, rather, and rural areas. Scroll up a little bit, please. Yeah, the targeted cities affected cities included St. Louis, Minneapolis, Korpus Christi, and Fort Wayne St. Louis is deliberately chosen because it's population density

and the terrain were similar to the Soviet targets like Moscow. I was just looking at something else. Did you know about this? Why the fuck the Dan Rather and Donald Rumshobe by a new ex-co... New Mexico ranch together in 1981?

That's the same year you just promoted the new Zenker at CBS, evening news. Oh, good. And it's also like right next door to the Epstein ranch in Mexico.

“Right, and Epstein famously got that to be closed to Los Alamos, right?”

So he could lure those scientists over with pussy. Unbelievable. Yeah. But I mean, like you go back through history, this is... Everybody's like, oh, the COVID was crazy.

It's not new.

It's just we hadn't experienced it so blatantly before because they had never tried something like that

during the age of social media. Yeah. And they used a playbook that relied on putting a letter in the mail or sending a telegram. Yeah. They used a playbook also that were required having control over the narratives that were being pushed out by the media.

Yeah. And the media had lost its lost impact on people. At the same time, the rise of podcasts had happened kind of under the radar. And they didn't recognize it. They missed it.

They just overestimated their position. Yeah. And during COVID, you had more viewers than seeing it. Even. Not only that when they turned me green and all that cancellation, but I gained two million followers on Spotify in a month.

Wow. Yeah. Wow.

“People were just like, what is going on that everybody's trying to cancel this guy?”

Like, what is he doing? And then they'd listen and go, oh, it's just a show where they talked to people. What are they trying to hide from us? And then you have guys on like Dr. Peter McCullough and Robert Malone and all these different people that are... Peter McCullough is the most published doctor in history in human history in his particular field of study.

And they were trying to make him out to be a quack. And then you see what they did with J about a charia and all these different people. And one of those guys was the inventor of MRNA. Robert Malone. He has nine patents on the creation of MRNA technology.

And he should never be out there telling people that it might not be safe.

Not only that, he took it and had a fucking serious horrible reaction where almost died. Really. Yeah, which is what prompted him to try to figure out what the fuck is going on. Because he was assured by everyone that it stayed local. It's not going to cause massive inflammation and, you know, myocarditis and all these different things that eventually was absolutely causing.

You know, and then there's, you know, they're trying to hide now the impact that it's had on children. You know, the impact that it's had on children that took it and how what giant percentage of them that died after taking it died within days of the injection. Yeah. And they're trying to ignore the signal. And there's so many gas lighters all over Twitter.

There's people that are paid to gas light on Twitter. And that's a fact. There's pharmaceutical drug companies just like a lot of other companies will pay people to post.

They'll pay people to be the voice of authority in reasons.

And so you can assure all the brainwash boomers that they're right all along and everything's fine. Yeah.

“And if you just look at basic manipulation and in mind control, the number one fear of human beings is supposedly public speaking, right?”

But that's not it. It's the judgment that might come from public speaking. It's not the being on stage. Right. It's like it's something going to judge me.

Am I going to get ostracized? So the way that they control a lot of this and gas light people is to use the fear of social punishment and social enforcement. And if I can get one celebrity to go out there and call these people a name and just give them a name as if it's a group of people. You know, like anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist, dragon believer. That kind of thing, we give it a name and that makes it easier for other people to socially enforce.

And it comes from an authority figure. So you get the tribe involved. And all you're going to do is fuck up a few people. Yep. Like Robert Malone.

And they're like, hey, I can take this guy down. Yeah. What do you think I'm going to do to you? Yeah. And you just get that fear out there.

And that's all you need to do. You kind of gaslight people because now I'm scared enough. But I won't say I'm scared. I'll say now I'd rather not just say my opinion. So now my identity gets tied into it.

Now it's part of who I am. I'm just not going to say anything. And it gets normalized. Like the absolute just let me mute myself and take my mouth shut so I don't get punished. And there's a bunch of people that attack and do the work for the man because they don't want to be lumped in with the other side.

So they'll go on social media and call the anti-vaxxers play grats and all these different things. Yeah. And also the wildest shit like their children should be taken from them. They should be locked up, isolated from society. And this is something called category warfare.

Have you heard of this? I know the expression. This guy, I can't remember his name. He wrote a book called "The Women Fire and Dangerous Things."

The first language categories that we had for language was women, fire, and dangerous stuff.

“I think his name was Laken, George Laken, or Lake Off.”

But if I frame something using a category, I can change what the allowed behavior is. So if I say that me and this other person are having a disagreement, your brain automatically has a list of what a disagreement is and what's acceptable. But if I say we're having a fight, now there's new stuff on the table. And all I did was change how something is defined in your brain. And we don't consciously process that our brain is getting permission to do things because of a category.

But if I say I've been at war with these people for a long time, now war is way different. Or if I say I disagree with Rogen, that's one thing. But if I say Rogen is a threat, what do we do to something that's a threat, right? We have to neutralize a threat. So just small words like that change what our brain says is permissible in that moment.

And that is really what's going on here. So actually two layers, if I can go into this for a second. Sure. Number one is this category. Let me just get a category out there to make your brain think one thing is permissible.

The second thing is, I create the idea in such a way that you get to feel morally superior for adopting it. And you don't have to have any new morals or anything else. You just have to adopt this idea and you get to feel better than other people. And that's it. So it changed the category.

It means like I can do something differently. So in a legal argument, if somebody says we're at war with the other side, this is my opponent instead of the other person. What do we do with an opponent? We have to take them down. It's a fight.

There's a winner.

There's always assumed competition there.

So that is one of the biggest things that I hope everybody can look out for. As the influence science expert. And I'm not immune to any of this stuff. I buy stupid shit on off of an Instagram ad as much as the next person.

“But it's important to know when something is clearly presented to you.”

And it's easy to feel emotional about it. You're being manipulated. Something's clearly presented. And it's just like here's this one thing and it's really clean. And it's easy to get pissed off about or it's easy to feel comfortable about.

Whatever it is, if the emotional thing is easy without having to dig into it, you're being manipulated. And that's a giant percentage of what most people consume. It's all day long.

And it's it's compounding.

“So if I just consume a little bit, that's that's one thing.”

But now I get a little bit more a little bit further into this rabbit hole. And we get in these obviously everyone says this online. But you get into these echo chamber of social media. All of a sudden you can you can find your people anywhere. You can you can connect with your people if you'd like to make.

Knitted yarn vest for hamsters. You can find other people that do shit like that. So back in the day, if you had a bad idea, you couldn't find a lot of other people that are agreed with you. And now it's easier to find people to agree with you when you have a shitty idea. So there's a niche, there's a whole separate niche.

And on top while you're there getting told that your ideas are relevant and normal, they're not abnormal. Because there's so many other people it normalizes bad ideas. The second part of that is I'm with all these people, but then I go back to normal social media. And all I get told all day is I'm right about those people, I'm right about those people, I'm right about those people. And it's just it is so sick.

And which goes back to what we first talking about, how performative our world is. And like all of us conceal the shame so much that we can't ever be seen by anybody.

Like we'll go to the grave and and feel like my wife is never even seen who I truly am.

You know? And the other thing is not is people have this complete inability to admit when they're wrong or change course. They have connected themselves, they've connected their their their whole being to whatever their thoughts are. Whatever this thing that they've agreed is real. And once they've defended it, they never want to go back and objectively look out and go wait a minute.

Oh, I believe this and that's not the case. Oh, this is the case. Oh, I'm wrong. Oh, no, I got a I got a course correct. No, they dig in and they try to find other echo chambers that agree with their initial position and other people that this and there's plenty of people that provide those services for you.

“Plenty of people, if you want to live in your echo chamber, plenty of people real and digital that will provide you this escape from your ability to learn and grow.”

And a and a sycophantic AI will do will help you. Oh, they're the best. They'll tell you you're wonderful darling. You're doing the best.

I always tell people you're not your ideas and it's one of the most important things that I've ever learned.

You cannot be married to your ideas. Your ideas are just ideas and as soon as you defend them and as soon as you connect yourself to them. As soon as you connect your identity to them, you're in a fucking trap. You're in a real trap and it's very hard to get out without admitting defeat. Most people don't want to admit defeat. That's how they look at it. Look at it. It's like a battle for their existential existence.

Their existence is completely tied in to their belief system. Yeah. And then we call it cognitive dissonance, right? So either have to say, I'm a dumbass or those other people are stupid. Right. So like when Biden won the election, it was the same thing people on the right. I had to admit, wow, I'm stupid and I underestimated what our country's doing or the other people are just idiots and they don't know what's going on.

Same thing happened when Trump got elected. Either like the whole country is stupid or I have to admit that I didn't know what was going on. And I'm out of touch a little bit and maybe there's something good. Yeah, I'll just say they're all stupid. It's protecting our identities. So it's ingrained into us. It's the ego thing. And I don't want to be wrong. And if I am wrong and I'm wrong in public, then I risk ostracism again.

So it's like getting kicked out of the tribe again. It's going back to the same fear. And people love to do that too. They love to attack people if they're wrong. And love to destroy people. And ruin all credibility that they've ever had. You could have been a public figure for 10 years. Putting out great information. You fuck one thing up. People want a vanity forever, especially if you don't admit it, especially.

Oh, you're running for office? What about that? You took a nude when you were 19? You took a naked photo. And that goes back to everyone's pretending. Like everyone else has got their shit figured out.

“And that's why everyone thinks everybody's got to figure it out. And I'm pretending.”

I'm the one hiding everything. I'm the one hiding everything. Everyone's got that shit. Everyone who thinks like, oh, they're going to find out my skills. Everybody's got skeletons in their goals. Everybody's got stuff like that. And it's, we're in the age where we're comparing ourselves to highlight reels. And, you know, Dr. Phil talks about this all the time. And, but we have to realize that there is people want you to be human.

This is why stuff that's real is trending so much more now. Like we're attracted to things that are human and flawed.

“That's why we buy shit that says hand made on it. We don't buy like, oh, machine made.”

No one celebrates that, right? We like the humanness of things. And even when I say there's a loneliness epidemic going on right now, everyone will not their head. No one will raise their hand. Everyone will say, oh, yeah, it's affecting all those people. But no one will say it's affecting me. But they'll all not alone. And I think we're getting to a place where maybe we're coming out of that.

It just, maybe it's me, maybe it's my echo chamber, but I feel like people are waking up. I feel like more people, not just through COVID, but just now just the way the world is. They're like, what, you know what, this doesn't really feel, it doesn't really, it feels weird for me to hate and feel hatred towards one of my neighbors who didn't vote like I did. That feels weird, just to hate someone for that reason. I think people are waking up that maybe the plan is going too fast.

Maybe they're taking it too quickly. They're trying to go through all these steps too fast. It's what it feels like to me. Well, also, I don't think they're competent.

I don't think they're good at it, and that's part of the problem.

Good at projecting narratives. I don't, I don't think the people that are necessarily in charge of propaganda, at least people at a government level. I don't think they're particularly slick. No. And that's part of the problem with all this.

It's like, when you're at a middle school sleepover and the dad comes in, trying to be cool. Like, hey, kids, what are you guys doing? That's the government trying to run this shit. This is when you get syringes dancing on stage on a late night TV show. Right. That was nuts.

(laughter) It's also a person who seems completely insincere. You know, that version of him. It's weird because the version of him that was on the Daily Show was awesome. Like, it was his character.

And irreverent. Yeah. And he was wrong. Yeah. But you realize, oh, that was just really good writers.

Yeah. They have really good writers. They created a fun Republican character that was a buffoon. But like a hilarious buffoon. Yeah.

And then he went and did a TV show and you're like, oh, the real you was weird. (laughter)

“But I think our saving grace is what you're talking about.”

Is that they suck at this? Like, yeah. When your teacher announces there's going to be a pizza party, and expects everybody to be super freaking out about it. Like, yeah, it's pizza.

But the government's like, hey, guess what we got for you. We got this new data coming out, this new data. And the siops are working less because of the spread of information. So people say, oh, social media is bad. You shouldn't be on social media.

Well, some of that is what's exposing this stuff. Yes. And we have people out there that are like you. And I'm not kissing your ass here. But you're willing to say, shit that sounds preposterous at the beginning of something.

And just make an observation that's real. And you're willing to just, the way that I phrase this and a lot of our training. At my training that is called NCI,

the way that we phrase this is like the first ingredient of confidence

is the willingness to receive social injury. And we need more of that. We need more people willing to receive social injury. Well, the position that I was in during the COVID thing was very unique. So it was almost easy for me.

Because I had already gotten such a head start. I was so far ahead of them. They didn't realize that my ability to say, wait, this is this isn't making any sense. Like, no, this makes any sense. And also, why am I green?

And also, why you guys lying? Why lying about all sorts of different things?

“Why are you measuring proponent levels when you're talking about myocarditis?”

And not the actual scans of people's hearts when you realize like young people are getting legitimately fucked up from this vaccine, not all of them, but some of them. Why aren't you looking at that? How come you guys aren't looking at vaccine injuries? It seems like a significant thing that people are talking about.

You got soccer players dropping dead in the middle of the field. And no one's bringing that up. You're trying to gaslight us into thinking that that doesn't make any sense. I was in a unique position to be able to do that. Because I had like almost like quietly snuck up to this,

and had this large audience that they weren't aware of. Yeah. So when it happened, it was just, it was like, I couldn't do anything other than what I did.

And it was, the blowback was crazy.

They tried to crush my sponsors. They organized campaigns. They were packed and involved. Really? Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. Thank God I was on Spotify.

“And thank God Spotify is not an American company.”

And also, it helped that I was number one in like 90 countries, and not number 90 in one country. Yeah. That helped. Yeah.

That helped a lot. The size of it was, it was like, it was so big. That as big as they were, they were like, oh, like, and then there's the strikes and thing. Like you try to silence something.

You're just going to make it bigger. I went to, if they kicked me out of Spotify and I had to go to Rumble, they would have just blown Rumble stock up.

And it would have helped everybody.

Yeah. I didn't know that there was that much shit going on. Oh, I can't even talk about it. But there was presidents involved. And former presidents involved.

That were contacting Spotify. Oh yeah. Trying to get me removed for vaccine misinformation. Yeah. And having to be right, all of it.

Not a single fucking apologize. Interviewing the dude that invented RNA. Oh, yeah. And the most published doctor in his field. Not a single, not a single apology from anybody.

Not a single retraction. Not a single, you know, me a copo. Not a single. We were wrong. And, you know, I lost a lost a lot of a lot during that.

Those days, it was interesting. There was a, there was a time where it was working. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know there was that much coordination.

Oh, there was a lot of coordination. People are going to be like, I don't know. I don't talk about it too much because it's, it's pretty, it's pretty deep. It was nuts. But it didn't work, right?

But they tried. And they tried it out. They spent a lot of money, a lot of money. It wasn't a small amount of money. It wasn't a small amount of people.

It was a lot of people and a lot of money. Good lower. Yeah. That part was spooky. But the turning of my face green was hilarious.

That didn't bother me. That's good. It's also, I'm a comedian. You know what I mean? Like, I'm a shit talker.

Like, that's what I do. If you talk shit to me, it's like, you're not going to hurt my feelings. I'm much. It's like, I'm used to it. It's normal.

It's a part of the game that I play. So, you know, especially if you're doing it, and there's a video that's the real video that's available for anybody that goes on my Instagram page. Like, the fucking retards. It's like, what is it?

It's stupid. Check our move. It's so dumb.

“And I think that what we see as authority”

hasn't changed in 200,000 years. But I think that what we consider to be social authority has been modified, just kind of in the human side of things. Yeah. Like, it used to be, oh, this guy's got a suit and tie on.

Now, all these CEOs are wearing a hoodie or a t-shirt or something. Uh-huh. Like, the visual definition of authority's changed. And the social definition of authority is starting to change now. Where it's used to be mainstream news,

and now we're moving into like a post-news era of something. I don't know what the next thing's going to be.

I mean, what Elon always says is you are the news now.

And the rise of independent journalists. And what you have, what you're selling, what is your currency is authenticity. And honesty. Yeah.

And as long as you don't break from that, as long as people don't find out, always don't secretly getting all this money from APAC, or getting all this money from Russia, secretly getting all this money. And, you know, oh, there's meetings where they've had

where they told people what narratives to push. And then you see people on Twitter that are, you know, supposedly new influencers. And then you see them almost cut and paste the exact same message over and over again.

And then you find out, oh, there's actual campaigns where you're paid. Large sums of money. If you have a large following, large sums of money. Like, significant amount of money to be a person who pushes narratives online.

That's your job. You are literally a paid propagandist. And one people find that out. You're going to lose a lot of your people that are paying attention to the take you seriously.

But there's going to be enough that don't know about it, that just see the tweet. And like, oh my god, is that true? Yeah. Like, oh my god, that's crazy.

The enough casuals where you're going to get some traction,

“but you have sacrificed the one thing that you need to survive”

in this environment. And that's authenticity and honesty. If you don't have those two things, you're fucked. Because when the mind reading software gets uploaded, and everybody knows, you may be all right.

Yeah.

You're fucked up.

But you're fucked up, too.

Everybody's fucked up. We're all fucked up. It's like, how do you behave?

“How do you manage your fucked up in this?”

What do you do? What do you do with your time? What do you do with your life? Yeah. We're going to know.

Yeah. And we're going to know a lot of people online or just demons. They're just demons. Like, in the real sense of the term.

Like, if you thought of what, if you had a demon, and if you were a demon, if actual demons were real. What would they be doing? What would they be doing? Well, they would most certainly be trying to ruin people's lives.

They would most certainly be trying to spread hate, spread misinformation, confuse people, get caught, compare yourself to other people. Oh, yeah. Destroy you psychologically.

Get you to take medications that you don't need. Make you think that you're not enough. Yeah. Yeah. Make you think you're not enough.

Take money to ignore. And sacrifice other people's health and safety. Just for whatever financial compensation you've got. You've been given to push an narrative. Yeah.

It's demonic. And it's separation. All of that is like, you are separate from these people. They don't matter. You shouldn't care about them.

You're separate. They're different things. You're not connected. You're not the same thing. And that's how people justify bombings.

Yeah. That's how people justify war.

“That's how people justify all sorts of horrific behavior”

that human being still engaging. And what did George Collins say? I think he said conspiracies not required when interests all align. Right.

That's a great quote. Yeah. That's a great quote. He had so many things. He said it's a big fucking club.

Yep. And you're not it. You're not it. He had so many bangers. He did.

But there's a few people that are in the club. That's what's interesting. You know, there's few people that get in that fucking club. And then also in their opinions change. Yeah.

Well, then they soften up on stances. Or they get killed on a campus. Have you heard somebody under your show that you thought was compromised? Oh, yeah. You have to name names.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. I've had people on my show that I guarantee are here to try to push a narrative. Yeah. A hundred percent.

No doubt. And my own, you know, my it's I think in some cases, it's obvious. And my job is to just keep them talking and let the internet do its job. Can I teach you a tactic right now? Sure.

That will be good for these people. Fuck yeah. All right. How much time do we have? We've got time.

Okay. All right. So this is a CIA method called elicitation. And it was invented by this guy, John Nolan. And so the basic premise is you're going to get more the more sensitive information

you need out of a person.

“The less questions you should be asking.”

So here's how it works. You can get sensitive information out of people better with statements than questions. So there's there's a few different types of these statements.

So the first one is called a provocative statement.

And the provocative statement is just making a commentary on what somebody said. And so let's say I just went through X and Y and Z. And you're like, so so basically, and then you kind of recap what I said. Right. And so no question.

And then I'll kind of, yeah. And so I'll kind of keep giving you a little bit more information. The second is triggering a need to correct the record. So let's say, do you and I are in a grocery store? And I say, Joe, let's say you don't get recognized.

Let's say, go over there. I want you to within 60 seconds. I want you to find out how much the girl that's stalking the shelf over there makes per hour. So you might go over there and say, hey, how much are you making an hour? But instantly you're weird. And that feels like an interrogation, right?

But if you went over there and you said, hey, I just read this article. Everybody that works at Whole Foods got bumped up to $26 an hour. That's fantastic. Congratulations. And she's like, what? We only make 22. And now she doesn't feel interrogated.

And the answer came from correcting the record. Does that make sense? Yes. So now you're not a weirdo who's asking how much she makes. Yeah.

So now you got the sensitive information. And it felt like it was just a flowing conversation.

So the third is disbelief.

So somebody says something and you don't get Jamie to pull up anything. But the disbelief is like, they say, oh, and I've even worked with X and Y and zero. I've done this one thing. You're like, what? There is no way. That just sounds impossible. And then they're like, no, oh, and, and they'll keep going.

Because there wasn't a question. So imagine if someone started telling you something sensitive and you're like, yeah, tell me more. Tell me more about that. It seems like you're kind of wanting to pull things out. So the more that you can use statements,

the more they're just going to keep feeling completely comfortable. Given you stuff. What's interesting is I don't know those methods,

You do a lot of that stuff.

Yeah. I just wanted you to be able to consciously grab onto it. I just do it instinctively. Yeah. I've went into it.

But I mean, my small bullshit. Yeah. My instinct is going to hold on. So what you're saying is, and you just give a touch of incredulity,

just a little bit of a little bit of skepticism. Yeah. And then allow them to kind of like expand on it and go, okay, so you're saying that this. All right, so are you sure that that's the case? Because a lot of people think this.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I do it sort of naturally. Yeah.

Because the most important thing is to listen as much as possible and keep them talking.

“And don't interrupt too much, but sometimes you have to.”

Like your push-ins haul on this is horseshit. Like you, this is like, I'm going to get grilled for this online. If I don't like stop this right dead in its tracks because I know and you know that you're lying. Yeah. So let's, and then, but you also got to like keep on the hook.

So like you, like, you don't want to submit them yet. You got to like, oh, look, you got out of the arm bar. Crazy. And a couple of those, you make them correct you. And you also say, like, well, that had to be challenged.

Or that sounds fascinating. And just those tiny little comments that just kind of keep them pulling along. The Russians did this to America during the Cold War. The submarine would pull into Singapore or Thailand or something. And one of the some KGB guy would go up.

There's some 19-year-old sailor at a bar and say, like, well, we just, Russia already has all these specs.

And it's amazing that Russian submarines are faster than US submarines.

Because our propellers are 19 feet wide. And this says, like, yeah, ours are 21. Like, just, just correcting the record. Just a tiny little thing, correcting the record. And some 19-year-old kid gives away top-secret information in 35 seconds.

Wow. So that's where this stuff came about. And when you're like a, if you work in the nuclear field, you have a top-secret clearance.

“You have to go through anti-illicitation training before you leave the country.”

And go spend time with some foreign national companies. God, it was so. Yeah. And the first day of counterintelligent school, the first thing they say is, if you're a four,

and she's a 10, and she's interested in you. She's a five. That is the most primal and effective of all tactics as hot women. It is. And also, we see with James O'Keefe,

Chattie Gay Guys. You see a lot of like hot guys. Yeah, you get Chattie Gay Guys give up a lot of data. Yeah. To give up a lot of fucking information.

Way more than I would ever think. Oh, it seems like the Chattie Gay Guys are worse even than the guys that are trying to impress the women. Yeah. Yeah.

I wonder how far they have to go. I wonder how many guys they have to sleep with. I don't want to know. I wonder, I mean, for sure, there's been a straight guy or two. Unless they recruit gay guys for the job, you know.

Cause gay guys wouldn't feel nearly as bad for having sex with another gay guy to get information out of them. I think that a woman would. A woman would feel like a whore. You know, a man who fucks some other guy that you're probably

fucking anyway. [laughter] It's probably no big deal. You know, guys it feels bad about that. And have you read Red Queen?

No. It's about biological behavior. It talks about like adultery and females occurs during ovulation most of the time. Really?

Fascinating stuff in there. But one of them was that women are reluctant about sexual activity because they face the risk of raising a child alone. And it's not a conscious thing. But like there's some biological driver that says,

if I am not careful here, I'm going to be stuck with this child alone. And if I had 200,000 years ago, if someone abandoned you and you're pregnant and then you're raising a child and you're kind of off the market

for no one's bringing you meat. No one's bringing you fish out of the river and all this kind of stuff. So I thought that was interesting. And that may be one of the reasons that it might be easier for dudes to go do something like that.

Yeah. Well, we'd have to ask James. This got to be a reason.

“Well, it's also, I think, especially in politics,”

there's a large amount of in the closet gay guys that are in all sorts of levels of politics, all sorts of levels of government. Yeah. I have no doubt.

I think it's been that way since Rome though. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

that wants to control all the other people. Yeah, well, you know the difference between today and Rome is the concealment of the shame about it.

“And I think most people don't know the difference between shame and guilt.”

And the shame is a destructive force. There's nothing good about it. There's nothing positive about it. And guilt is focused on understanding the behavior and shame is focused on the person, the identity of the person who did it.

And there's nothing productive about beating the shit out of yourself emotionally, does not make the other person who you've harmed any better. It doesn't make the world any better. It's a down. I made a video on my YouTube channel,

basically giving a review and a tutorial of planet Earth

as if it was a video game. And like, what's that video called? I think it's called Earth as a game. So it's basically like a 20-minute, like, without breaking character.

Like, I'm giving a review. I'm actually in the game right now, and I'm making a tutorial and a review of this video game that we call Earth. And one of the things I said in the videos,

the developers don't tell you like what the main goals are of the game. How do I get on the leaderboard? What's the way that, how do you win? And we went through like 10 different metrics,

but at the end of the day,

I think what gets you on the leaderboard is, were you an upward force on most people's lives that you encounter? Did you leave people better than you found them? And that's about it. That's about fucking it.

Wow. It's like, am I a downward force on other people? Am I pushing people down constantly? Or am I just doing something else? And you remember like, the moment you launched an DMT,

you were like, oh my god, I was worried about taxes. I'm 17 black holes away, and I was worried about my eye-nine form or something.

I thought that was such a big deal.

And it's the same thing that people,

“I think if you want to learn the number one,”

and this is my rambling, but the number one lesson I think most people can learn is from people that are dying. People on their deathbed. There's no better book you could read about,

how to master this game, how to get good at earth is reading the regrets of dying people. Because there's so much clarity at these moments where you know you're going to die. Like, oh my god, I thought all this shit,

I thought that Lexus, I thought, I had to get the Lexus. I had to impress everybody at the country club who didn't give a shit about me. And I didn't spend time with my grandkids.

I didn't spend time with my kids. Everything gets so crystal clear in those moments

“that I think those are the best books in the world.”

I think there's a lot of nurses that work in hospice that write and collect a lot of these things. And it's just so much perspective on what we think is so important. And then at that moment, oh my god, I can't believe I've advertised all this shit.

Absolutely. I think this is a perfect way to end this. Yeah, man, that was awesome. Thank you very much. Okay, so station one.

Is that what it is? Channel one or station one. Station one on YouTube. Yep. And then your show is what's the channel?

Or chase views on YouTube. Chase views and station one. Yeah. Thank you very much, man. Really appreciate it.

That's awesome. It's really, really good stuff. Thank you. All right, bye, buddy. See ya.